10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL SEPTEMBER 1, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 EFTA00142190

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 APPEARANC ies) OFFICE OF THE INSPEC OR GENERAL co co EFTA00142191

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) OFFICIAL USE 3 MR. Ee : The recorder is on. My Agent with the U.S. Department of Oo Fh Hh b- i?) 1) o rh + 3 iy H nspector General, New MR. a : This inte investigation. Today’s date is September 1, interview 2021, and tt politan Correctional Center - MCC - in New York, New Special Agent | a. This interview will be recorded by me, SSA ) a . Could everyone identify themselves for the record and last name. To start, again I am DOJ Special Agent [i i”! - G Special Agent These are my EFTA00142192

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 credentials. MR. a : Thank you. Lieutenant a MR. a : Thank you, sir. This is an official DOJ investigation into the death of inmate Jeffrey Epstein and the surrounding circumstances. And you’re being asked to voluntarily provide answers to our questions. Will you agree to a voluntary interview with the DOJ OIG? wR. MM: ves. MR. a : Thank you, sir. This is the United States Department of Justice Office of the Inspector General Warnings and Assurances to Employee Requested to Provide Information on a Voluntary Basis form. It says, you are being asked to provide information as part of an investigation being conducted by the Office of the Inspector General. This investigation is being conducted pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978 as amended. This investigation pertains to job performance failure and security failure. This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do EFTA00142193

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 not have to answer questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you choose not to answer questions. Any statement you furnish may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceeding or agency disciplinary proceeding or both. And there is a waiver section and it says, I understand the Warnings and Assurances stated above and I am willing to make a statement and answer questions. No promises or threats have been made to me and no pressure or coercion of any kind has been used against me. You want to take a second - a minute - to look at this? And if you agree, there’s an employee section and there’s an employee’s name. Sign the employee signature and print where it says employee’s name. MR. QJ: oh.) That’s it? MR. a: Print your name right below that. MR. a : Okay. The date and time also? MR. a : I can fill that out. MR. a : All right. MR. a : Thank you, sir, for signing and printing your name. All right. EFTA00142194

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) oO co wo OFFICIAL USE you please fill out the rest of this fo signing as witr MR. a : All right. Did you understand the OIG form? MR. a : Yes, sir. MR. a : Great. Before we sta the interview, I’d like to place you under oath. Mr. a. can you please raise y i) it) right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth nothing but the truth during this interview? MR. a : Thank you, sir. All rm? rt your and right. Is it correct that you were interviewed 2019, and again by myself and Special HM oon July 14, 2021? reviewed the EFTA00142195

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 wording, but just kind of broke it down to summarize so we don’t have to like flip through the -- MR. a : Okay. MR. a : -- pages. So page - | | just going to read a few of these things and then I’1l get into the questions. It says on page 43, “I knew he was going downstairs.” So WAB - so we’re talking about inmate Reyes right now. Do you remember Efrain Reyes? MR. a : Yes. MR. a : He was WAB. He was Epstein’s cellmate. So we’re just trying to follow-up a little bit more on what happened with Reyes. So again, on page 43 you said, “I knew he was going downstairs. So WAB means with all belongings. And you go to R&D. You’ re supposed to leave within probably an hour and not come back. But there have been times that they go downstairs for all their stuff and they come right back upstairs whether it’s to SHU or to a unit.” And then on the next page on 44 it says, “There’s been a lot of times that we take them downstairs. Two-three hours later something happens. You know what, EFTA00142196

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 go right back upstairs. You leave tomorrow or the next day.” Page 45, you talked about in the interview the daily log. Do you recall? This is the daily log and on the back page you’1ll see where it says Efrain Reyes and where he was pre-remove. MR. a : Yes. MR. a : It says, “During an interview we searched the daily log that shows Reyes was pre-removed at 8:35 i. on August 39, 2019. You said that that means that Reyes left the building and most likely was not going to return. If he was going to court, it would just say “court” next to his name.” Is that Correct? MR. a : Correct. MR. ae : Okay. Page 46 you then said that pre-remove and WAB are basically the same thing. Is that correct? MR. a : Correct. MR. a : All right. Page 47 and 48, then you said, Since the daily log said pre-remove, that means that the callout sheet court roster likely said WAB next to Reyes’ name. When he was removed from the SHU. And EFTA00142197

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you believed that is what it said. Is that Correct? MR. a : Correct. MR. a : All right. Page 49, you then said that an inmate who was going to court would not leave with all their belongings and said that Reyes left with all of his belongings. MR. a : Correct. MR. a : All right. You then said that Reyes should have been replaced as soon as it was confirmed that he left the building. So after talking with you, we talked to R&D, and we reviewed a bunch of documents. And we found these - emails that we found from August 8, 2019. You wouldn’t have received them. But - or at least I don’t believe you did. So the first one was sent at 10:33 a. and it says that the following prisoners are being transferred. It says Reyes, Efrain. Please schedule the transfer for Friday, 8/9/2019. Please include seven days of medication with medical summary. Thank you. Did you ever receive that? MR. a : I don’t know. EFTA00142198

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 1 MR. Ee : You don’t. All right. 2 And then on August 8, 2019, at 3:36 i. 3 there’s a prisoner schedule report. It just u Ph if) ia wu n 4 says Efrain Reyes er within. It says MCC w TOT to GEO, meaning that he was being Oo transferred from the MCC to GEO. 7 MR. QJ: «Right. 8 MR. a : That lines up with your 9 story where you said like if he was going to 10 court it would have said court. 11 MR. QJ: «Right. 2 MR. QJ: and if it - if he was 3 leaving, it would say pre-remove and WAB like 4 it did. Correct? 15 MR. a : Correct. 16 MR. Ee : All right. Awesome. And 7 then also, you told us this, but when we were 8 reviewing one of the other interviews, it said 9 that. I guess - did you and officer i - 20 are you the two that escorted both Reyes and 21 Epstein down to -? 22 MR. a : Reyes was going to I think 23 R&D. And Epstein was going to attorney 24 conference. 25 MR. a : Okay. So . | was with EFTA00142199

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 11 you though? Because during this is his last interaction with Epstein was on August , 2019 while doing an escort with Officer that he would need a new cellmate since released. ma 0) 0 wn = ou i] K © its) sir. Pretty much. See when I was out the told him. Yeah-yeah-yeah. And you had mentioned you had said that. Yeah. MR. a : Correct. MR. ae : I already read that. MR. QJ: did tell him you’re going MR. ae : Right. So just the follow-up question, with all review of this stuff, I guess it’s based on this information in your statements. Why wasn’t Epstein igned a new cellmate after R oO yes was brought downstairs as a WAB? MR. a : You asking me? Like -. MR. a : Yeah-yeah. So for during your shift, so he was brought EFTA00142200

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 12 w ~] wo 10 11 ive) down at least by 8:38 - that’s when he was listed as pre-remove. You had said, you know, sometimes they come right back up. You know it could always take an hour or two -. MR. a : Or longer until the conclave - sometimes it’s not -- MR. a : Right. MR. a : -- right before for the count. MR. a : So like why - your shift ended at 2:00 a. correct? MR. a : Correct. MR. a : Why wasn’t he replaced prior to 2:00 i. if, you know, 8:00 all the way to 2:00. That’s like six hours later. MR. a : Well he was in attorney conference. It usually takes -. MR. a : Not Epstein. I’m sorry. Reyes’ - oh sorry. This is how you’re wasn’t Epstein inmate replaced and - or cellmate replaced? And I’m sorry for interrupting. MR. a : To mine, he wasn’t replaced because he didn’t’ need a replacement right then and there. Because Epstein was still EFTA00142201

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 13 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 downstairs. So pretty much I guess he got a couple of hours to search for the bunkie or let somebody know. I really don’t know why he wasn’t replaced. MR. a : So when we talked to you though, you said he wasn’t replaced because you didn’t know that he wasn’t going to return. MR. a : Correct. MR. a : But in reviewing all of this and reviewing your statements, and then reviewing everything, we did know he wasn’t going to return. And you even said like no he was WAB - that’s not court. He was leaving and if he didn’t’ come back within a few hours, and we knew he wasn’t leaving. MR. QJ: Right. So -. MR. QJ: so -. MR. a : He goes downstairs at 8:00 in the morning, he could still come back. Like I said before, he could still come back right before the count. Because the count is at 4:00. MR. a : How would that happen if before when you’re -. Again, in your statement you said it could take like an hour or two but EFTA00142202

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 14 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 if he’s not back then, you know, your exact statement was, “There’s been a lot of times when I take them downstairs you know two-three hours later something happens. You know what, go right back upstairs. You leave tomorrow or the next day. So this was obviously a lot longer than two or three hours. So why was it? And I guess - the way that you had said, it’s kind of like you passed it along saying make sure he gets a bunkie. Right? You said that you told Officer a. MR. a : Correct. MR. QM: But why didn’t -? MR. QJ: At. «2:00 when [I left. MR. a : That’s what you said -- MR. a : Yeah. MR. ae : -- at 2:00 right? So, but why wasn’t - why weren’t the proper - the notifications made prior to that time to get him a bunkie? MR. a : I really don’t remember why it wasn’t done. Or I don’t think there was a reason why it wasn’t done. I mean it was hours later, yes, but it’s not just one thing going on. EFTA00142203

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 15 1 MR. Ee : Yeah-yeah-yeah. So you 2 knew though that he wasn’t coming back, right? 3 MR. a : No, I didn’t. I never said 4 I didn’t. 5 MR. a : Then how can you say that 6 though? Because you said that WAB means that 7 he’s gone. 8 MR. a : With all belongings. 9 Correct And once again, just because it says 10 WAB, he could come back within a couple of 11 hours. A couple of hours could be right before 2 the counts signed. ive) Fs) The count at 4:00 | 4 MR. a : Correct. 15 MR. a : How is a couple of hours 16 - a couple hours means two. eight, nine, 7 ten -. 8 MR. a : Well I don’t have specific 9 times. I don’t - like I really don’t know how 20 to say anything or what to If it didn’t 21 happen, it just didn’t happen in between that 22 time. 23 MR. QM: Richt. 24 MR. a : Like I said, it was 25 probably a whole bunch of stuff going on. ao] 3 Qo EFTA00142204

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE to me, again, Reyes went downstai he was going to come back because again, it’s not the Q i} down ts) U if somebody goe Rr an s another inmate. And if rs, there was a possibility know, you first time or last ti tairs with WAB and has to go right back upstairs. to get an (Indiscer MR. MCC on August 3, 2:00 actually shi - your did leave around th Right-right. So I really don’t know why within more than just two nible When did leave the you All right. So you ft ended at 2:00, but you 00? at time, 2: was - Okay. But you didn’t EFTA00142205

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 17 wn rt i ie] bal for like an overtime shift? 0 inl I went to - what was it? I Fa) think I did Town Driver after that. || not sure. with ia. And we talked to the people Did | Town driver. that mean? MR. QM: what do outside the So you’re still MR. QJ: ts think I did it that day. But you were not MR. QJ: No, 1 wasn’t. MR. a : All right. Now we talked said that. And osple wi that you did not tell them EFTA00142206

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LIMITED ioe) io ioe) oO oo OFFICIAL USE 18 MR. a : So did you make th notificat MR. MR. ct | Oo KR rh nt from not rom making those ‘ MR. don’t 10OW. b o O D uw > D MR. have something EFTA00142207

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 wo 2 MR. a : No, I don’t think so. Yeah, so | | just trying ies) a 4 - || just trying to put - here’s the daily 5 assignment roster. It shows from Friday, 6 August 9, 2019, and - let’s see. Where are you 7 listed? You’re listed right here as a . 8 And FY is here. | I guess - what time 9 would have he gone from? Is it 7:00 to 3:00 or 10 8:00 to Whatever numbers. There 2 should be a number right next to it. 3 MR. a : Okay. So it’s eight- 4 eight. So he would have been 8:00 to 4:00. 15 Okay. So he would have been there up until f fo] = ~] uel 3 And then you would have bene there until 2:00 p.m.? 8 MR a : Correct. 9 MR Ee : All right. So you 20 believe they’re just both incorrect? Or lying 21 to us? 22 MR. a : I don’t believe none of 23 that. I just - maybe they don’t remember me 24 telling them. 25 MR. a : Because you had no one -. EFTA00142208

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 20 1 And this - just so you’re aware - this one from 2 | | was back in, you know, back when the 3 incident happened. it’s not like it was wi md a wn ie) 6 two years later. was like right away they ~] spoke with him. 8 MR. a : Okay. 9 MR. a : Now did you have - since 10 we have spoken, have you recalled if you 11 actually passed the information up to like the 2 3 4 MR. a : You on, this is what, like 15 a couple of years ago? From last time, 16 nothing’s changed from our last conversation. 7 MR. ae : All right. So no, no 8 recollections? So if you didn’t tell them, and 9 if they were aware, how would have they found 20 out? 21 MR. QJ: Probably through R&D. 22 MR. ae : R&D or something. So if 23 they knew though that he left, but they also 24 make the same claim, we didn’t know he wasn’t 25 coming back. Where would they get that EFTA00142209

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) information from? MR. a : That he wasn’t coming back Or that he was coming back? MR. QJ: | that they didn’t know if he wasn’t or not. MR. a : Unless through R&D. That’ the only time. MR. a : So R&D knows that he’s gone? They know he was transferred. He’s gone. MR. a : Some (Indiscernible MR. a : So is there anyone -? MR. a : Because we don’t get the notifications unless on the count or where’s this body at - or this person left so he shouldn’t be on your count. MR. a : So like if at the time, so on August 9th, they’re saying yes, I knew Reyes left but I wasn’t sure if he wasn’t coming back. Would have that been based upon information that you provided or someone from the SHU provided? Or you’re just saying from the overall count? MR. a : From the overall count - 21 ? EFTA00142210

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 22 MR. a : Okay. Because they would - if they were involved in the count, they would see where people -- MR. a : Correct. MR. a : -- left from or not? All told them right. So that doesn’t mean that MR. a : You asked me earlier if I told them. I did recall telling them. MR. Ee : The other day you said you thought you did but you couldn’t remember. a) So are you confident you did tell them? MR. a : Again, it’s a while back. I don’t remember some stuff from last week. So MR. QM: -- you know. I do recall. Most likely I ad I’m not 100 percent posit did tell them. MR. a : But yeah, you just don’t - you don’t know if you did or didn’t. So that’s where - and you’re - because you’re EFTA00142211

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LIMITED ies) w co ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE 23 saying the 100 percent thing. But you’re 100 percent positive you told aaa. MR. a : I don’t even remember if I told him because he started at 4:00. MR. QJ: Well this should -. MR. a : I think | started at replacement, right? Correct. At 2: So he would have started cent positive you told yr MR. a: tell him. Him and a. certain that I did And can things during your interview. So I just want to make sure that - what it is MR. a : I don’t remember word-by- word what I told them. I said, it’s been EFTA00142212

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] what a couple years. And you know, I’m pretty sure I told them, hey, Reyes might not be coming back. He got to get a bunkie. MR. a : So you said Reyes might not be coming back but you have to get him a bunkie? MR. a : Nah, if he doesn’t come back, you got to get him a bunkie? MR. a : All right. So at that point, you still are saying that even though you knew he was WAB, at 2:00 p.m. you didn’t know he was coming - not coming back? MR. a : I didn’t know if he was. And I didn’t know if he was not coming back. MR. a : And again, even though you knew he wasn’t going to court. What at 2:00 p.m. would have caused him to come back? MR. QJ: | at 2:00 p.m.? MR. QJ: Yeah. MR. TUPPER: Who Reyes? MR. a : Yeah, you’re saying that i you told them at 2:00 p.m. that he might not be coming back. At that point, when you dropped him off, way earlier in the morning. MR. a: I don’t -. So once they 24 EFTA00142213

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 25 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 leave, I don’t - I’m not on top of calling every five minutes to find out where this inmate going or is he coming back or is he not coming back. So once they leave the SHU, then they leave SHU. MR. a : Okay. But with you saying that he was WAB and pre-remove, you had mentioned though, that that meant they weren’t coming back. MR. a : There’s a possibility of him not coming back. Correct. MR. a : Well you said not possibly, so doesn’t that mean you weren’t coming back, but only if there were some problems that happened within the first hour or two. And they would -. MR. a : I don’t recall. Like -- MR. QM: 4.11 right. MR. a : -- that seems repetitive and it’s getting a little frustrating. MR. a : Yeah. I know. It’s not - I’m just trying to get the clear answer of like -. We’re just trying to figure out. Alright, you left during your shift. You’re the one who sent him down. You knew he was EFTA00142214

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 26 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 WAB. You knew that WAB meant he wasn’t coming back. He was listed as pre-remove. R&D said he transferred to another institution. This all happening during your shift. You were the OIC. Why didn’t you take action and get hima new bunkie? MR. a : There was a million other things going on. I’m not the only officer working there. MR. a : Okay. So you said you may have -. So we have a -. MR. a : Do we have to continue? Because I’m -. MR. QJ: «this is a total - we’re moving off of Reyes now. So this is an email sent from Friday, August 9, 2019, at 6:07 i. It’s from you to ; | who was the ops lieutenant. And it has to do with inmate Fernandez. And it looks like it was some kind of incident that took place while you were on shift. And I think we talked about this as well. So I’m just trying to figure out - and you can look at this. Were you here at 6:00 p-m.? MR. a : I did work that day. EFTA00142215

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 27 That’s that there. MR. a : So was that Daily Daily Roster, would it show on here if worked that day MR. a : Yes it would. MR. a : Somehow? So again around 2:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m.? MR. a : Correct. right. So during that had any conversations with PI then, regarding any with like Epstein or Reyes 5 oh i) or Fernandez? MR. a : I don’t remember talking to MR. Ee : Where is this at? MR. a: Did you see these? MR. a : Oh there you go. Yeah. IT 1400 to It’s on the second page. So there’s 2200. All right. So you were there. And that’s when - so as a town driver, you were still able to come in and like work on the reports and stuff? MR. a : Or I would just walk into EFTA00142216

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 28 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a : All right. Great. So you would have sent - but that -. This obviously - that email (Indiscernible *00:22:31) that would have been sent from inside the institution? MR. a : Correct. MR. es : Okay. Can you just tell us a little bit? DO you remember what happened with that inmate? You know, you can read this incident report if it helps you. MR. a : It says the visiting room I think. MR. a : Here, I’1l just read it. For the record, it says, “On August 9, 2019, at approximately 1:40 p.m., I, SOS a. while assigned to the Special Housing Unit officer, I proceeded to enter the Nine South visiting room. As I walked towards the door, I observed through the visiting room door inmate Fernandez, Number 86824-054, attempt to grab an unknown item from his visitor. Once inmate Fernandez reached to grab the item, I called the door and called for a lieutenant. Once I was able to enter the visiting room, I gave inmate Fernandez a direct order to walk of the EFTA00142217

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2 wo 1 visiting room - I assume that means you were 2 off the visiting room - to conduct a visual 3 search. Inmate Fernandez complied and the 4 visual search was conducted. Operations 5 lieutenant was contacted and inmate Fernandez Oo was removed from the unit. 7 MR. a : I assume it’ in the n 8 report. 9 MR. a : Yeah. Does that help you 10 recollect what happened then? 11 MR. a : Not really. 2 MR. a : No? I don’t see a (Indiscernible *00:23:56). 4 MR. a : There’s a lot of visitors. ive) t wi ie 2) ie) 16 MR. Ee : All right. So alright. So it doesn’t really ring a bell or -- 8 MR. QJ: )9sNan. 9 MR. Ee : -- remind you? Do you 20 know - remember where Fernandez would have been 21 placed? 22 MR. a : From the visiting room? 23 MR. a : Well it says that - do 24 you know if he was in the SHU visiting room? 25 Nine South visiting room, right? EFTA00142218

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 30 ies) a Yeah, the Nine South 4 visiting room. The last sentence 5 inmate Fernandez was removed from 6 It does say the operations lieutenant was 7 contacted. And inmate Fernandez was removed 8 from the unit. 9 MR. a : It says he’s on Seven 10 North. So I’m not sure if that was -. It 11 should say location. 2 MR. a : Oh, okay. So up here is 3 this Seven North? 4 MR. a : That’s what he’s -- back -? F oO n a wm ! = 1 B ct fu 7 tT w sSigned to. And on the 7 left - I think it’s the fifth or sixth line - 8 on the top like sixth box should say what he’s 20 ona - 21 MR. ae : The location of incident. 22 The one to the left on that. 23 MR. a : I’m just going to give it nN ct is) re} Ee No w Fa) a : Sorry. Place of incident, EFTA00142219

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE wo ray 1 Special Housing Unit visiting room. 2 MR. a : Yeah-yeah-yeah. That’s 3 the incident. I’m saying do you know where he 4 was -? It says that he was removed from the 5 unit. Do you know where he would have been 6 removed and went? 7 MR. a : Well from the visiting room wo a) okay. So you think was removed from the °o Za oO = nt] n i} 11 unit, it doesn’t mean that he was removed from N ct a 1) wn z ive) id 2 18) oO room. 7 MR. ae : So on (Indiscernible oa * i=) Cc N is N o 9 MR. a : Inmates from Seven North use 21 MR. ae : No. So he was probably in 22 SHU to Seven North. 23 Seven North before the 24 SHU EFTA00142220

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. QJ: 9 And just assume where Ww 2 Cc 2 saying. So we can actually look at that. We 3 have an inmate history quarters. If you look 4 there. I mean that’s the less important, Seven 5 North Because we’re trying to figure out 6 where he went I don’t remember. So in the lieutenant’s co Fs) 9 log - if you look at the second highlighted one 10 down there - it says at 3:15 he was moved from 11 the SHU to R&D dry cell, correct? 2 MR. a : Yeah. That’s the dry cell. So do you remember at all ive) Fs) 4 if at this - during this incident would have he 15 been moved when that happened? Or after the fact would he be moved at 3:15. 7 MR. a : When it happened. a : When it happened? When it happened. 20 MR. QJ: So right at that - so oO wu Lee) 5 oO a3 21 this 3:15 is probably a little wrong then, I’m 22 assuming. 23 MR. a : Well officer time. That’s 24 maybe when he logged it in. 25 MR. a : Okay. So - but at - at EFTA00142221

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 33 1 that time, you would have brough him right from 2 the SHU visiting room to the R&D dry cell? MR. a : I mean within the next 4 five-six minutes. ies) 5 MR. a : Okay. And you did - and 6 it does say you did notify the ops lieutenant, wo a) a : So who would have been responsible to i=) of the SHU and place 11 him into R&D? N Fs) Most likely it would h WwW on o o =] Qo 2) 5 r H ie) an 4 MR. ae : Control would have done : Control. 7 MR. ae : So who would have notified control to do that? ae : Unless control saw it over 20 the cameras, hey who is this guy. Or once he t oO a co wo 5 21 got to R&D, R&D could have contacted control. lieutenant could have contacted control. No Nm ' 0] Okay. No ion) id could have contacted EFTA00142222

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. QJ: 11 right. So - but Wo rf 2 there’s no one - like it wouldn’t be like 3 you’re the one who, you wouldn’t have like 4 contacted control? 5 MR. a : Nobody specific. 6 MR. a : Okay. Because if you see 7 in th he actually wasn’t keyed out until 8 12:35 a.m. on the next day, 8/10/209 was when 9 he was actually keyed from the SHU to R&D. So 10 do you know if - are you aware? Like who was 11 it - what should have you contacted control and 2 told them? ive) Fs) Anybody could have t wi a) a : Anyone could? 16 MR. a : -- it doesn’t have to be 7 me. 8 MR. a : Okay. Even though you 9 know working in the SHU and all that kind of 20 stuff, it wouldn’t be - because OIC that would 21 mean your job? 22 MR. a : body can contact them. 23 MR. a: Where is the SHU direct line? 24 MR. QJ: 9s in the middle. 25 MR. RJ: «In the middle? EFTA00142223

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 35 wi ~] 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. QJ: of suu. correct. MR. a: Okay. And when you moved - on this incident. When you removed the inmate, right? MR. a : It goes through SHU and into the elevator downstairs. MR. a: And you would have - if you wrote the report, that means you moved the inmate yourself? MR. a : No. Anybody could have moved him. Because if you’re in SHU, depending on how many staff’s in the SHU, you stay in SHU. Then in turn, you could take them downstairs. The lieutenant could take them downstairs. Any staff could take them downstairs. MR. ae : So, do you have any idea why he was moved to R&D and not to the dry cell in the SHU? MR. QM: | Maybe there wasn’t enough space. MR. ae : Okay. So that wouldn’t have been your responsibility then? To actually do the keying or keying him out of the SHU and putting him into R&D - or to notify EFTA00142224

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ~] wo 10 11 lo oO control? MR. a : I could have. Anybody could have notified control. Control is doing that. They keyed him out. MR. a : Because obviously this is just part of the whole thing. This is - as I +f) think we talked about before - how many of the counts were wrong. Well the counts were all wrong because people in the SHU that weren’t conducting the counts never caught on to the fact that he wasn’t in here. So, we’re just trying to figure out like - this is all going to be part of the story. So obviously there’s going to be higher-ups who are going to, like, look at this to say, like, who dropped the ball there. MR. a : Okay. MR. a : And are you part of that dropping the ball? Or is that someone that -? MR. QJ: | No, I’m not. MR. QJ: No? MR. QJ: «No, I’m not. MR. a : So that wouldn’t have been you that would have -- MR. QJ: No. EFTA00142225

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LIMITED ies) w co ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE 37 I do my job to the best of MR. a : But when you contacted -. 2 And thank When you contact the ops ld lieutenant, wo control have been aware that you made that contact with the ops would have would have been Correct. All right. control would have actually caught this on the radio. So control, by you making that -- MR. Ee : -- notification -. Control should be -- oO very radio And if y u’re notifying the ops lieutenant on the radio, should they have then keyed EFTA00142226

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. a : They got to verify it wo o N Hy bh. K o rt 3 someone has to 5 down here. 6 Yes 7 MR. a : Make this key entry. Oo [es] m3 a All right. And that is i=) anybody. 2 MR. ae: What would you have said over ive) would have heard ting. 34 operations come to t oO a But you wouldn’t have said, 7 hey listen, you’re moving an inmate. You would 8 have asked the ops lieutenant to show up to the 9 SHU -- -- so you could discuss the Yeah. Not over the radio No ion) id | | 24 though. I’m not going to say over the radio 25 this inmate is going downstairs to be placed on 17) EFTA00142227

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 39 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 dry cell. No. MR. a: But then control wouldn’t have known that though. MR. a : What do you mean? MR. a: Like you asked for -. On the radio call. What I said is -. MR. QJ: «So if I called the lieutenant, control knows that I’m calling the lieutenant. They don’t know why I’m calling the lieutenant for. MR. a: But they wouldn’t have known that there’s an inmate being moved to the -. MR. a : Unless they see him through the camera. MR. Ee : So I mean I understand what you’re saying, anybody among - still just trying to wrap my head around - obviously everybody has a job to do and I get that you’re doing your job to the best of your ability. But like, who’s responsibility is it? So obviously, if someone’s moving someone to somewhere, someone has got to be like -. MR. a : It would be the operations lieutenant to notify control saying this guy is EFTA00142228

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE 40 being placed on dry cell, key him out. MR. a : All right. So it would be the operations lieutenant’s job? MR. a : Operations lieutenant is MR. QM: 411 right. o the ops mant. And in this case specifically, sin you're sending emails to - actually the count didn’t start that day until later on. Being that - so that should have been either | or i at this time, correct? If this actually happened at 1:40 p.m., since they were 7) but he’s MR. a : Who asked for the shot? ve. veoh, i -. MR. a : I don’t even remember why I sent him the shot if the other lieutenants were MR. a : Well because I’m EFTA00142229

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 41 1 assuming, because you sent that at 6:00 p.m. 2 and this was - n o it happened at 1:40 p.m.? 4 MR. a : That was very close to ° ies) i correc rt w ct ie) oO oO 5 jon i) mh re} i= KK a a a mh ct oO a Correct. 7 MR. a : And you said you probably foe) c o Fh rt wu rt fu a o & o oF c un wo F Right. 10 MR. a : So you just must have - 11 like the very last thing you did in there, ive) Fs) Probably. Probably the t wi ~ And again I -. t o a But like I said before, 7 there’s a million and one things going on. And oo by seeing that shot, that’s probably the oO millionth thing going on in the SHU. 20 MR. QJ: Sure. So you guys are 21 just like constantly moving, you know, 22 constantly - you got things, and there’s a lot 23 of things on your mind at the time, right? 24 MR. a : At all times. There’s 25 always something going on. Showers, visits, EFTA00142230

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE uw ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 you know, counts, rounds. MR. a : Okay. And did you just say - I’m sorry, I missed this - but were you saying that you would have spoken in person with fe about this? MR. a : About what? MR. a : Is that what you were just talking about? MR. a: No, the question I asked was the radio call that happened. What goes over the radio and the radio call he mentioned, is the ops lieutenant come down to the SHU. MR. a : Okay. MR. QJ: «Come over to the SHU. But the fact control wouldn’t have known this is regarding a certain inmate at that point unless someone made the phone call or radio call saying, hey listen, this inmate is being moved from the SHU. MR. QJ: Okay. =I know we’re talking about a long time ago, but when we talked to you before, you said that you didn’t have any conversation - or you didn’t remember having any conversations with Ft at least. Now that you’re seeing, you know, this and 42 EFTA00142231

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LIMITED ies) w fos) wo i=) ive) oO co OFFICIAL dealing with him regarding this matter and seeing that you actually worked that shift, r oO =] ) het is) c USE © mb i) ranyc a Hh ically with Epstein No. I actually remember sending him to shot. reason to believe that you didn’t So you don’t even No. Do Okay. No. Yeah-yeah. It had to be me. I have some follow-up Being that that point, right? Where have typed that up? you come into the search area - H Hh ket is) c come -. we also have the would ‘re a town Probably the lobby and do onversations with | at you EFTA00142232

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 44 et to the staff 7) 1 upstairs right before you Q 2 locker room. There’s a computer up there. ies) i So you can just -. 4 MR. a : So technically, I don’t w have to walk inside the building to send out i] 6 the email, meaning pass the secure area. 7 MR. ae: You wouldn’t have been back You would have been in one of the Les] i 3 r a 0) un = G wo i=) Correct. All right. and you 2 wouldn’t have Q Oo =] 0) oO wu ie] k to the SHU though after ive) 2:00 p.m.? t oO a oO 7 MR. ae : And so would you have had anybody in the SHU after Les] wu 5 « a 3) 5 3 c 5 pe Q ul] rt b 3) 5 = Bb ct I 22 MR. ae : Yeah. When uff. No ion) H p. rt pb. =] Q rt a @ wo 1) im @ ve] 2) K rt n uy =] jon a rt to follow-up on EFTA00142233

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 45 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 any of this stuff? MR. a: When you came back in, I know you mentioned that you wrote up the report. Being the fact that you left instructions for a. a. and i. right? You wrote a memo in regards to it that, hey, listen, Epstein needed a cellmate. Right? They should assign one. Did you follow-up with them to verify if it was done? MR. a : I don’t think so. I probably got - I just told them I’m outside, why? If I came in it’s probably, oh I just remember I got to send a shot because we’ve got 24 hours to do so. And that’s probably the only reason I came back into the building to do the shot and go right back outside. I wasn’t thinking about any inmate if I’m outside. MR. a : And I do apologize. You may have just answered this to him, I just was already ahead in my thoughts. When it says that operations lieutenant was contacted and inmate Fernandez was removed from the unit. Would you say that that didn’t mean that you removed him? MR. a : Correct. EFTA00142234

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 46 1 MR. Ee : All right. So do you 2 remember if you removed him? ies) a No, I actually don’t You don’t know? wi aw co oO a Correct. ver removed that inmate - 2 would it have been their 3 Hey, listen, an inmate is being 5 MR Not really. t oO a ae : MR. ae: And he needs to be keyed out. a Not really because it could co have been internal, which is the elevator 9 person, just taking them downstairs. 21 know, you can say oh the next person’s supposed Bd Sf ng that is like, you 22 to do it - the next person’s supposed to do it. 23 Everyone can say the same thing. 24 MR. a : Correct. 25 MR. But -- EFTA00142235

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 47 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a : Just, you know, if there’s four people in the SHU, or any - let’s say there’s one person in the unit. That one person is assigned to the unit, but that one person - it’s fine for somebody else to help him or her out. If they have a million things going on, then I’m not just going to sit there and wait. Okay, you know, it’s your responsibility to do it, so I’m not going to do anything. I mean, I don’t know how other people work, but if I’m busy, my coworkers help me. If they’re busy, I help them. Again, so it’s not - even if it’s per se my responsibility, his responsibility. Okay, somebody got caught trying to bring contraband into the building. 1’11 grab him off your hands and I’11 take him downstairs to internal - to R&D for you. Or I don’t know if he has, I’1ll take him to SHU for you. It doesn’t have to be that one specific person that say - like okay, I caught him doing something wrong. I’m not the one that goes through the whole time always. I could probably get him. Okay, the lieutenant comes. He takes over. Then I’m done. I got to write the shot. Or the EFTA00142236

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 48 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 internal - which is the elevator person - comes. I got him, I’1l1 take him off your hands. I’11 take him downstairs. So it’s not one person that has to do these things. Anybody could help you. MR. a: All right. So you don’t know if you brought the person down. Let’s say the employee - the correctional officer C.O. that was supposed to bring him down - right? MR. a : Okay. MR. a: You said it could possibly have been the lieutenant? MR. a : It could have been the lieutenant. It could have been anybody that took him down downstairs. MR. a: But one of them should have - someone should have taken initiative and said hey, listen, let control know we’re bringing this person down? MR. a : Probably or everybody just - like in anything else - everybody assumed the next person was doing it. Or somebody before them did it. MR. a: So you’re saying at this point, it could have been just assumptions and EFTA00142237

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 49 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 everybody believed each other would do it and no one called him? MR. a : Well somebody eventually had to do it because he has to be put on the out count. MR. a: But as you see, he wasn’t put on the count until past midnight. MR. a : That means somebody didn’t call. MR. a: Would that be the same then - let me take a step back. Would that be the same thing that happened in the morning then? With the fact that Reyes was removed and everyone assumed someone else would take care of it and it just didn’t happen? MR. a : I don’t know that. MR. ae : That was a little different. Reyes was removed from the count. Fernandez wasn’t. MR. a: I meant about Epstein needing a cellmate. Sorry, I should have clarified that. Is that same thing happened in the morning with Epstein? Reyes is removed from the count. He’s going WAB. And people know that, you know, once he’s removed, he’s gone EFTA00142238

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] wo 10 11 uw o with all belongings. He - Epstein - should have been assigned a new cellmate, right? It’s the same thing - everyone assumed that someone else would take care of it? And I just kept kind of fell back. MR. a : It’s still the same thing. I don’t know that. I don’t know if everybody else assumed. MR. a: Who would have been in charge of the SHU that day in the morning? MR. a : I don’t - that same day? MR. a: That day - August 9th morning - from 8:00 a.m. to when you left. Who was in charge of the SHU? MR. QJ: 9 the SHU lieutenant. MR. a: If there was no SHU lieutenant? MR. a : It would have been part of the operations lieutenant or activities lieutenant. MR. a: Okay, and they’re -. MR. a : They’re not -. MR. a: Say that again? MR. a : The operations lieutenant is in charge of the building. Activities helps EFTA00142239

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 51 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 out the operations lieutenant. If there’s no SHU lieutenant, activities lieutenant goes up to feed, makes some moves, if they’re in Ten South or in G Tier. Because only the lieutenants have the keys for that. Anything else, that needs to be done in special housing, the officers and staff could do it. MR. a: And out of the staff that’s in the SHU at that point, who would be in charge? Is there one person that’s considered in charge? MR. a : The OIC should be in charge. MR. QJ: 9 So who’s the OIC on August 9th morning? MR. a : I think that was me. I think. Or a. Or the SHU warden that day. MR. a: Do you have the schedule? Just to -. MR. a : I thought you were kind of like always - even though there’s a different (Indiscernible *00:41:04) you were kind of like the OIC at that period of time. Is that not right? MR. a : Most of the time, yeah, EFTA00142240

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LIMITED w ~] OFFICIAL USE 52 because I kind of knew what I was doing. Person, SHU 1 was a And I was SHU 3. MR. a: Were you (Indiscernible *00:41:23)-? MR. a : That’s why I said not just because you have the title doesn’t mean you doing everything. We all were working together. MR. a: Were you considered to be the OIC of the SHU during day - day watch? MR. QJ: | Well they -- MR. a: In general. MR. a : -- in general, yeah. Because I’ve worked in SHU for a long time. Well not a long time, but I kind of knew what I was doing. MR. a: That’s like when Lieutenant || wanted something done. Instructions are going to come down through you? MR. BMJ: «ssf 1 was there, correct. MR. a: So at that point, just to cover, we know - basically even | made a statement that there’s a conversation that you had and you told - in the elevator to Epstein - hey, listen, we need to assigning you a new EFTA00142241

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 cellmate because Reyes i That before we 4 MR. : ies) went downstair Right wo ios) s leaving. was in SHU right before? 5 MR a : Right next to Reyes, 6 correct. 7 MR a : So at this point, it was 8 established that Epstein needed a new cellmate. 9 MR. J: = in-hn. 10 MR. a: Should actions have been 11 taken at that point in the morning to make sure 2 - ensure that Epstein had a new cellmate? 3 MR. QJ: fe didn’t -. 4 MR. a: We’re not talking about 15 everyone else. We’re ju 16 We’re talking to | | ab 7 Everyone should - wait a 8 mentioned, everyone had 9 should have taken steps, 20 MR. QM: corr 21 MR. QJ: «Bot fr 22 you have taken actions 23 MR. a : Shou 24 actions? 25 MR. QJ: 9 Yeah. st - from your action. out you at this point. As minute. you their role. Like one right? ect. om your part, should ld I have taken EFTA00142242

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 54 10 11 12 13 14 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a : Um probably I could have said, hey, but I didn’t communicate and he was going to attorney conference. And Reyes was still pretty much in the limbo of he might come back. MR. a: Yeah, but you said already that WAB - he’s leaving. And you mentioned it was a couple hours, right? I think you mentioned -. MR. a : And he also met with -- MR. a : Maybe I should -. MR. a : -- and he made the statements to - you made the statements to both Reyes and Epstein saying you’ll get a new cellmate. MR. a: Yeah. MR. ae : So that’s why we’re back here. Because we’re like, when we put all this together, and we’re seeing all this, we’re like oh. Actually, it looks like it should have happened right away. And it shouldn’t have been, you know, moved off. MR. a : And again, he’s not guaranteed to leave the building. It’s never 100 percent even with WAB. EFTA00142243

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 wo w MR. a: But, okay, you said guaranteed not to leave the building. But if he didn’t leave the building, he would have been up within a couple of - back in the SHU in a couple hours. MR. a : Maybe I should have not said a couple of hours because a couple of hours is -- MR. a : No, everybody says that. MR. a : It doesn’t mean two. In everybody’s mind it doesn’t mean two. But it should have been - again, more than two hours. There’s been times more than two hours that the inmate is downstairs in R&D with all his stuff and comes back. MR. a: How often does that happen? MR. QJ: «A lot. MR. a: According to R&D, when we spoke to R&D, rarely does it happen where an inmate was brought down and they don’t leave the building. MR. a : Well to me it happens a lot. Like that’s what I -. Not lately, but, before, yes. MR. a: Before. Anything else on EFTA00142244

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 56 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 that? MR. a : No, he just - we can wrap it up. Can you just initial and date everything we just looked. And we’ll call ita day unless you wanted to add something. Again, this is just to let you - so you’re not (Indiscernible *00:44:28) on these things. MR. a : Yeah. MR. QJ: so it’s just the daily activity log, the emails that we went over for Fernandez’s inmate quarters. But we didn’t actually talk about your memo, but there’s the information we got with, you know, the memo that you wrote on August 9th - or August 12, 2019. And this is the email the Marshals sent to MCC saying that he was being transferred. And this is the PP38 that shows that Reyes was pre-remove. MR. a : What am I initialing - that I saw this? MR. a: Yeah. MR. a : Yeah, it’s just to say that this is what we talked about today. MR. a : Oh. The same thing as last EFTA00142245

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LIMITED ies) w fos) wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE everything. just saying that this Just the top pages Yeah, no, this is And then the last assignment roster. where is the lieutenant’s office in that down to the lieutenant’s office right oO aan mn 1) eh 2) KR a im: a: MR. that Okay. Perfect. And again, sorry thing that Anything EFTA00142246

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 58 1 you with those questions, but it is -- Ww J OP | a | rt oO t t tad rt Ui) . a! oO c 5 fe) = k f b ifs] wi ir) 6 MR. a : Yeah, no. It’s just - 7 you know we’re trying to tell a story. And we 8 just got to get our information accurate and 9 10 if I come a 13 MR 14 MR. I 15 would be the same way -- co het 18) Cc t 2 ct 3 i 21 MR. ae : You know what I No N No Wa 25 MR. a : All right. Thank you guys. EFTA00142247

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LIMITED w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE Have a good day. You too. Oh, sorry. Special Agent | 3:55 ia. and I am turning B Thanks again. ae : All right. wo ite) The EFTA00142248

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LIMITED oy oO) oo OFFICIAL U CERTIFICATE that the foregoing péz transcript of the Inte EFTA00142249