10 11 12 13 18 19 20 21 22 DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL SEPTEMBER 23, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 ra Hills, CA 91301 e: EFTA00126954

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 APPEARANC ies) OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL co co EFTA00126955

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. QERMJ: his is Special Agent J 2 a. Today is September 23, 2021. The time ios) 3 is 9:20 a.m., and we are beginning the 4 interview. My name is a 5 Special Agent with the 6 Justice, Office of the Insp or General, New 7 York Field Office, and these are my 8 credentials. 9 MS. a : I see. 10 MR. a: This interview with the 11 Federal Bureau sons correctional officer 2 lieutenant, | a. Did I say that 3 right? 4 MS. a: Yes. 15 MR. a: Is being conducted as part of 16 an official U.S. Department of Justice, Office 7 of the Inspector General, J investigation. 8 Today’s date is September 23rd, 2021. The time 9 is 9:20 a.m. This interview is being conduced 20 at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New 21 York City. Also present is DOJ Senior Special 22 Agent. 24 these are my credentials. Thank you. 25 MR. ae: This interview will be EFTA00126956

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 4 ies) w nior Special Agent a: I'm correction co al lieutenant, oO 11 offici DOJ/OIG investigation into the death and you are being Ww u fA x oO oF rt oO voluntarily provide answers to our 14 Will you agree to a voluntary 15 16 t co a t te) 5 20 III-22 21 Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector No General, Warning No Wa No wo fw u # U EFTA00126957

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 conducted by the Office of the Inspector General. This investigation is being conducted pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended. This investigation pertains to job performance failure, and security failure. This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not have to answer questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you choose not to answer questions. Any statement you furnish may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceedings, or agency disciplinary proceedings, or both.” The waiver states, "I understand the Warnings and Assurances stated above and I am willing to make a statement and answer questions. No promises or threats have been made to me, and no pressure or coercion of any kind has been used against me.” Please read the form, and if you understand -- MS. a: Okay. MR. a: -- can you please sign where it says employee name, signature? MR. a : Need a pen? MS. a: Thank you. MR. a: Move that out of the way. EFTA00126958

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LIMITED OFFICIAL a ioe) io USE MS. MR. underst MR. signing MR. going t (Indiscernible and the form? J @ Hh fe) KK 3 rt And are signing Mm-hmm. Do my name? I’ll fill out the -- No problem. Okay. Thank you. on or General. Thank you. And I am fe) wit and put my name. a EFTA00126959

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 7 2 MR. a: Before starting the Oo w 17 addre your date 95 EFTA00126960

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. a: Thank you. And what is your 2 current cell phone number? education? co ies) w co The College of New Rochelle. wo And what And what 4 MS. a: I was in ive) Fs) 16 MR. ae: What did you do prior to 7 working for the BOP? 8 MS. a : I worked for the New York 9 City Police Department as a school safety 4 20 agent. 21 MR. ae: And when did you start 22 working ite 23 MS. EFTA00126961

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LIMITED ioe) io ioe) oO oo OFFICIAL USE When did you graduat you. Do my a it) 3 ian bh bh ct w ini w i) K did you -? Wha tart? 3) MDC Brooklyn. MDC Bro MS. Yes MR. And you started as a When did MR. from BOP training? MR. don’t remember was probably shor e t t the ly was + EFTA00126962

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 And \ 3 come o =] And have you been c a] 13 4 2016 17 MR. ae : And then, in 2019, were you a lieutenant with the SIS Office? oo No a Ke i) fw a O | I 25 MR. a : -- you can go into the EFTA00126963

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LIMITED w ~] ive) OFFICIAL USE 11 questions. MR. a: So, what we’re going to talk to you today about is Mr. -. Are you aware of who Jeffrey Epstein is? MR. a: And was he an inmate at the MCC? MR. a: Were you familiar with him while he was housed here at the MCC? MS. a: Yeah. I would say yes. MR. a: Okay. Let’s start off. Well, were you familiar with his first suicide attempt? MS. a: Yes. I did the first investigation on that one. Yes. MR. a: Did that approximately, did that happen approximately around July 23rd, 2019? MR. a: Can you tell us what happened? Based on your investigation and what you found. MS. a: Based on my investigation, once I found out about the suicide attempt when EFTA00126964

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 12 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I came to work, I spoke to the staff team, as well as his cellmate, to try to get both of their sides of the story. MR. a : Was that Tartaglione? MS. a: Yes. Mr. Tartaglione. MR. a : Okay. MS. a : I spoke to Epstein in the R&D area. He was a little hesitant, at first, about speaking to me. He kept asking me who was I? You know, what was I interviewing him for? And I explained to him my position as the SIS Lieutenant, to ensure his safety needs are met, and, you know, I questioned him about whose the alleged suicide attempt, and he said, I don’t remember what happened. I remember him telling me he went to get a drink of water, and all he remembered is he was on the floor. And the staff will come in and he wouldn’t provide much of anything else. I did question him about Mr. Tartaglione. You know, did you guys have any words with each other? You know, we were just cellmates at the time. You know, when you went to get the drink of water, and he would -. Either he say he was laying on the floor, or sitting on the bed. EFTA00126965

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 13 1 You know? I asked him, you know, are you 2 telling me the truth? Is there anything that 3 you would like to volunteer? You know, did you 4 intentionally try to harm yourself? And at 5 times, like, I didn't try to harm myself. I 6 don't know what happened. I just got a drink 7 of water, and next thing you know, I was on the 8 floor. 9 MR. a : Did you ask him if 10 Tartaglione attempted to harm him? 11 MS. EJ: yes. 2 MR. a : And what did he say to WwW rt a wu rt 4 MS. a: And he said no. a : And he said Tartaglione 16 did not -- t wi ic-4 a 8 MR. a : -- try to harm him? 9 MS. a : He said he did not. 20 MR. QM: Okay. 21 MR. ae: Was there a noose found 22 around his neck, at that point? Do you know? 23 MS. QJ: §3=ot think it was. I think it 24 was. At the time. It was a rope, I want to 25 say, or something to that effect. They had EFTA00126966

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 14 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 brought down to the SIS Shop, that they found. I can't tell you that they found it around his neck because I can't remember. To be honest with you. MR. a: And how did the C.0O.s become aware that he had possibly tried to commit suicide? MS. a: To my knowledge, Mr. Tartaglione is who alerted the officers, by banging on the door. MR. a: And when the officers found him, did they find a noose around his neck? How did they find him, do you recall? MS. BJ: 31 can't recall. I know that they found him on the floor. But I can't recall if it was around his neck. MR. a: And Mr. Epstein stated that Tartaglione did not try to kill him. MS. J: 9 Yes. MR. QJ: 9 Except there was a noose. MS. a: Yes. MR. a: Did he mention if he made the noose himself, or how the noose came about? Ms. QJ: =No. He didn’t. MR. a: And what was your impression EFTA00126967

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 15 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 after talking to him? Did you believe that he tried to take his own life? MS. a: I kind of had mixed feelings about it because he was insistent on that he didn’t try to take his own life. You know? Normally, a person will say, okay, this was going on, and he kept saying, no, I didn't try to kill myself. I didn't try to kill myself. I don't know what happened. So, I mean, during the investigation and conclusion, I can't say that he, you know, he did or he didn't, to be honest with you. From the answers that I was getting back from him. MR. QJ: §9But he stated himself that Tartaglione didn't try to kill him? MS. a: Yes. MR. a: So, the only other option would have possibly been that he tried to commit suicide himself? MS. QJ: 9 Right. MR. a: Okay. MR. a : Or do you believe that inmate Tartaglione attempted to harm him? MS. a: I don’t. MR. a: Yeah. EFTA00126968

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 16 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. a: I don’t. MR. a : So, was it inconclusive? MS. a: It was pretty inconclusive. MR. a : What is your feeling of what happened, though? Being a trained investigator. MS. a : I don’t know if it was, you know, looking back, I kind of felt, like, okay, was this, like, did he intentionally try to do something to get our attention? You know, then I leaned to, maybe he didn't. You know? You have two inmates in the cell. And I'm, you know, I'm also looking at did, you know, did Tartaglione is telling me the truth. You know, I really can't say what happened because you have, you know, Mr. Epstein saying, you know, no, he didn't try to do anything to me, and I asked about them interacting. Do they talk? And he’s, like, yes, we talk. You know, we’re cellmates. We talk. We read books. He, you know? So, it wasn’t no reason for me to believe that Mr. Tartaglione, you know, tried to harm him because Epstein didn't give me that impression. MR. a: And was he placed on EFTA00126969

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 17 1 suicide watch as a result? n 2 MS. a: Ye ies) a So then, wouldn’t you 4 only be placed on suicide watch if the thought w pw w ct a fw ct a @ = w iT attempting to self-harm? If rt hat was the thought made hology department -- -- they would definitely o 7) i=) you on suicide watch. Even if you said 11 it out of playing, they would place you suicide watch. nN ive) 3 MR. So, do you know how they 4 made that determination that he would be placed on suicide watch? I don't know. t oO 77) Okay. I don't know. co ep) But it wasn’t ba wo a3 n ed upon 22 MR. ae : Was it actually your 23 investigation concluded, which actually brought 24 him off of suicide watch? EFTA00126970

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 18 2 MS. a: No. I wouldn’t say that. 3 Normally, they do their evaluation, the 4 psychology department, and when I guess they 5 determined that the inmates could return to the 6 general population, then tt! will release them 7 from the suicide watch. 8 MR. a : Okay. So, the SIS 9 determination of inconclusive doesn't actually 10 play into if he’s on or off of suicide watch. 11 MMMM: st don’t think it did. 2 MR. GR: okay. 3 MS. QJ: «= don’t think it did. 4 MR. a: Inmate Tartaglione. Had he 15 been at the MCC for a long time? eah. He’s been at the MCC for quite some time. 8 MR. a : Did he have any history of 9 violence with any of the inmates? 20 MS. QJ: 9 Not violence. He was more of No rar w cellphone carrier. I think I caught him with No N fw cellphone at a time. 23 MR. J: = 24 MS. a : You know -- 25 MR. ae: -- is that why -- 7) | | EFTA00126971

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 19 w ~] wo 10 11 MS. a: -- something to that effect. MR. a: -- he was in the SHU? MS. a: I think that’s why he was in SHU at that time. MR. a: Do you recall how Tartaglione got chosen to be Epstein’s inmate? MR. QJ: Celimate. MR. a: Cellmate. Sorry. MR. a: Sorry. MS. a: Actually, I don't. I don’t know how they put the two of them together. Normally, if it’s, you know, if we’re vetting cellmates for, say, that they would ask me, you know, who do you think would be more suitable, but in Epstein’s case, nobody asked me. So, I don’t know how they became cellmates. MR. a: You don’t know if any decisions were made by the higher ups, in regards to him? MS. a: I don't know. MR. a: Okay. And after this incident happened, was Tartaglione removed from the cell? Or was inmate Epstein removed from the cell? EFTA00126972

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 20 w ~] wo 10 11 ive) MS. a: I'm not sure which one were removed, or if they both was placed in different cells, with different cellmates. I'm not sure. MR. QJ: well -. MR. a : Well, inmate Epstein was actually placed on suicide watch. MS. a: Right. But I'm not sure if Mr. Tartaglione remained in that same cell. MR. a: Okay. But he was in the SHU after that meeting with him? MS. a: Yes. MR. a: Were there any issues with him after that incident? MR. a: With Tartaglione. MS. a: Not that I'm aware of. MR. a: Okay. And we asked about the suicide watch. Now, being that if an inmate was - an incident like this happened, let’s skip the fact that it was inmate Epstein -- MS. QJ: 9 okay. MR. a: -- if an inmate was found with a noose, and there was a possibility of a suicide, what’s the normal procedure that EFTA00126973

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 21 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 happens? What happens to the inmate? What does the MCC do with the inmate? MS. a: If it was an incident where he was found, let’s say, while I was a lieutenant on, and it happened, I would remove him from the cell, of course, immediately. Notify psychology of what occurred. At that point, I would be placing him on suicide watch, with an inmate companion watching him, but I would make sure, you know, we take all of his clothing, everything, and he would get nothing but a suicide smog. And a suicide blanket. MR. a : And how long does that normal suicide watch last? MS. a: It can vary. MR. a: What’s the shortest you’ve ever seen somebody put om suicide watch? MS. a: Maybe a couple of days, but I can't tell you a, you know, one or two days, or three. But maybe a couple of days. MR. a: Based on what we’ve found out, it looks like this attempt was on the 23rd, and 24th morning, he was removed from suicide watch and placed in psych observation. MS. QJ: 9 Right. EFTA00126974

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LIMITED ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) OFFICIAL USE 22 MR. a: Do you think that was too early to remove him from suicide watch? I know this is -. What is the difference between psych op and suicide watch? MS. a: It’s the same area. Psych ops is, they just get their clothing back. But they are still being watched. MR. a : It’s the same thing, right? MS. EJ: it’s MR. QJ: 9 Yeah. MS. a : They’re still being watched thing. by an inmate companion. MR. a: Is there any other benefit to being in suicide watch - in terms of suicide watch versus psych observation - any benefits MR. a : Yeah. You have your clothes. MS. J: 9 You get your clothes. MR. ae: Your clothes. MS. a: I mean -. MR. a: Was it - if it was any other inmate - would they have given back his clothes that fast? EFTA00126975

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 23 ~] wo 10 11 MS. a: I don't know. That would be the psychology department determination. MR. ae : Okay. Did you - now, moving forward, I think around July 30th, I believe, that he was removed from psych observation, and he was placed back in the SHU - do you recall hearing why he was removed from psych observation -- MR. a: - and placed back in the SHU? Ms. QR: No. MR. a: Do you have any questions? MR. ae : Yeah. Just to go back, file back to Nicholas Tartaglione. So, I knew you - when asked - you said you weren’t, you knew he was more of a cellmate carrier kind of a guy, but do you know of any instances where he actually did harm another inmate? MS. BJ: No. vR. SJ: «No? MS. J: 9 No. MR. a : Great. Thank you. MR. a : All right. Anything else on the -? EFTA00126976

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LIMITED ies) w fos) Ww oo OFFICIAL USE copy fou working Oo err fu fon O re] ii} Would a oO Oo 3 to I'm going SHU roster. at it schedule. know if you on it. Okay. And who -- EFTA00126977

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 25 w ~] wo 10 11 ive) MR. Ee : Oh, sorry. MR. a: -- where would that be listed? Sorry. MR. : I thought you were going to -. I thought we were just talking about this. This next one. Did you hear anything - just going back, before we talk about the suicide watch, psychological observation room, we'll go - did you hear anything about anyone contacting the MCC and requesting that he be removed from psychological observation? Ms. QR: No. MR. a : No? And you didn't hear that, like, for instance, his attorneys were trying to get him off of psychological observation, so that they could continue with their attorney/client MS. a: No. I didn't hear. MR. Ee : You never heard that? MS. BJ: No. MR. a : Okay. Perfect. Now, we can move to the actual -. MR. a: So, I showed you the August 9th roster. You said you are not on there? Ms. QJ: can I -. Actually -- EFTA00126978

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE 26 MR. J: 9where -? MS. a: -- I would be under the SIS Lieutenant, if you -. Under the SHU Lieutenant. I would be under the Lieutenant. oO was working a: No. I was the only SIS Lieutenant. I'm trying to think. Yeah. Nobody was in there that day. MR. a: Can you just circle that for us? MR. ae : So, you were not here on the 9th, is what you are saying? MR. ae : And no one was? MS. a: Not in the MR. a : Oh, wow. Is that abnormal, for being a Friday, without anyone EFTA00126979

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE 27 being in § MS. a: Actually, the SIS Technician, her days off is Friday and Saturday. MR. a : Oh, wow. MS. QJ: «And at the time, it was only two of us working in the whole area. MR. a : So, there was only one MS. a : One tech and one lieutenant. time. then, abnormal that, on a Friday, no one was this wasn’t, , working? MS. a: No. I normally -- c-ernible -- on a Friday, I been on because she would have been EFTA00126980

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LIMITED ioe) io ioe) oO oo OFFICIAL USE (Indiscernible -- on Friday. And who was t ho *00:19:36). I can't recall MR. QJ: 9811 right. MR. a : But she wasn’t here? ually - I know that the schedule the day befo recall that recall not being here? r oO Put this here just in case we that Epstein’s cellmate, inmate Rey yu first become yes, EFTA00126981

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. a: The day of the actual 2 suicide. ie) wo Ww 5 > @ 5 MK Oo Cc n fu ie wu ie] ct =] wu bh 7] =] po a p. Q o 4 which would be -- 5 August 10th 6 -- August 10th 7 Yes. 8 Saturday, when you came in, 9 that’s when you learned -? 10 MS. When I came in. Mm-hmm. 11 MR. Okay. Were you aware that, 2 when you came in, what were you aware of why 3 Reyes was removed from the institution? 4 MS. a: After speaking to him, they 5 told me he got released from court. That’s 16 what I was told. Who told you that he was -? co U wo 5 Not sure. Not sure. Okay. I can't remember. So, your understanding was, 22 Reyes went to court and he just didn't come 23 back? 24 a : Right That’s what I wi understand. No EFTA00126982

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE how do the MCC find ou moved to court, or bei MR. a: From You’ MR. BJ: -- try rom did you ever hear that went to court, he actu another institution? court. ransf xc 1) w ao rt i] ow an be = wu wm cr that’s what happened. He was transferred. he never went to court? ‘s a normal procedure, t if an inmate is being ng transferred out? court, you’re s court. Let’s re talking about court. eyes was -. Well, no, in this case, Reyes actually never ally we transferred to I heard he went to So, even to this date -- was released from court. -- to this date, did you erred? I’ve never heard that. Oh, you’ve never even Okay. rry. Because He never went to court. EFTA00126983

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LIMITED ies) co OFFICIAL USE (Indisc court, made ba a: I still don’t know. a : That’s what ernible *00:21:24). ae: That’s (Indiscernible ae: -- assumed that he went to and, you know, maybe, I thought maybe he il or something -- a: -- and he got released from a : But that’s what everybody ying, that he actually went to court. a: So, based on what we - our gation, I’1l show you an email. This is dated -. This is from Po 6), from the U.S. Marshal And it went to, it looks like Ww Pp EFTA00126984

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 32 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a: And it says, transfer of inmates on August 8th, 2019, at 10:33 a.m. This email was sent to them. If you take a look at the title, the subject, it says, “Transfer of inmates.” MS. a: Yeah. MR. a : And it says, “Transfer of prisoners from -- MS. a: I see it. MR. a: -- to GO. (Phonetic Sp. *00:22:10). MS. a: To GO. And inmate Efrain Reyes is stated on this. So, he never -. It’s not that he went to court. He actually was transferred to GO. Do you know what the procedure is for something like that? If an inmate is to be transferred, how do they pull the inmate out? How do they let the SHU know that the inmate needs to be pulled out? MS. a: Normally, R&D would get in touch with the SHU officers, pretty early in the morning, 6:00 in the morning, to get their courts, and whoever is leaving, ready. MR. a: Is that known as a court list? EFTA00126985

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE a: A court list. MR. a: And that list comes over, a they let the SHU officers know? MR. a: So, they prepare them. And on that - if that he was leaving - what would it state on the -? Have you ever heard the -- WAB mean to you? With All Belongings. And what is your understanding if it states that? To me, With All Belongings can mean anything. You know, where is he going? To Brooklyn? Is he going home? MR. a : But does it mean that he’s coming back? MS. ae: To me, no. | And your understanding is, it says WAB, he’s leaving for certai Okay. a: wo ios) nd if EFTA00126986

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LIMITED ies) w oO co wo i=) ive) w oO oo oO OFFICIAL USE would y Right. And when, as an SIS, ou get a copy of those court production lists -- MR. a : -- or productions? No? MR. a : Okay. MR. a : Do you know, I mean, it’s on the top, do you ever -. Do you recall, after this in death, day? of it, vestigation started, after Epstein’s ever seeing that court list for that I’ve never seen it. a: No. do you know if there’s wanted to obtain a any way we can of that? Discharge area. And that’s something that . a : -- if we asked, and based on said no one seems to have maintained a that. It looks like they’ve printed copy I would think it should be in EFTA00126987

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 35 1 off for the day, and then they disposed of it. 2 MS. a: I don't know. 3 MR. ae : Okay. 4 MR. a : Was it kept, though, 5 under your investigation, for when you went in 6 on the 10th? Do you know if that was, at all, ~] part of, like, anything that you would have 8 collected? 9 MS. QJ: «bid 1? I don’t think I had 10 the court list. 11 MR. QJ: «No? 2 MS. a : To be honest with you. I had 3 a lot of stuff. But I don’t recall seeing the 4 court list. 15 MR. a : So, in the stuff -- 7 MR. ae : -- that you did, on the 8 10th, did you involve at all, did you look into 9 it at all, Reyes leaving and Epstein not having 20 a cellmate? 21 Ms. QJ: «sf think I did. I think I did 22 run his SENTRY paperwork, once I got here, to 23 see where was Reyes. What happened with Reyes. 24 I think I did run his SENTRY paperwork. 25 MR. a : Okay. But you didn't -. EFTA00126988

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE Ww C 1 You didn't ever maintain, you know, obtain that 2 court list, though? ies) MS. ae : I didn't have the court list. I don’t recall having a court wi th 6 list No 7 MR. a : And so, do you - if R&D 8 doesn't maintain it - do you know if there is 9 any way that we could get our hands on one of 10 these court lists 11 a: I don't know. I don't know, 2 in SENTRY, because I don’t deal with their 3 functions. So, I don't even know if they were 4 able to - be able to go back. 5 MR. a : Yeah, no, they can't. 16 They 8 MR. a : Every (Indiscernible 9 *00:25:14), so no one -- 20 MS. BRM: See, I don’t -- going to maintain No rary a | i} it) 22 in SENTRY for 24 hours. Do you have the other 23 email? ~) 5 > b a > re) 5 0 No w bd sent EFTA00126989

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 37 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 everybody else of in R&D. Saying that he was being transferred. MR. a: Oh, no. I don’t have that email. I think that’s separate. I didn't print that one out. MR. a : Okay. And do you know, are you familiar with how the U.S. Marshal Service - at least back then, I don't know if they still do this - but they would send out an email the day before, which would be sent to, like, all the lieutenants, and a number of other people, for people who, the following day, are going to court or being transferred. Are you familiar with that email that’s sent by the Marshal Service? MS. a: I’ve probably seen it. MR. ae : Okay. But you don’t really know what I'm talking about? MS. QJ: «oon, it -- MR. QM: Okay. MS. a: -- I would have to see it. To be honest with you. MR. QJ: Okay. MR. a: I'm going to take a step back. When Epstein was brought out of psych EFTA00126990

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 38 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 observation, he was placed in the SHU. Do you recall that anyone from upper management, or even psych, mentioning that he was required to have a cellmate? MS. a: I didn't hear it, per se. But normally, when they come off of suicide watch, or a psych observation, they have to have a celimate. And psychology, usually harbor on that. You know? They have to -- MR. a: Why is it -- MS. a: -- have a cellmate. MR. a: -- why is it that they need a cellmate? MS. QJ: 31 don't want to guess, but I would say, even though, you know, an attempt possibly was made, you want to prevent something happening going forward. MR. a: And do you recall - but you said you’re not sure - but do you recall that there was a requirement for Epstein to have a cellmate? MS. a : Yes. I do recall them saying he had to have a cellmate. MR. a: And that was by word of mouth? EFTA00126991

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 39 uw ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 MS. a: By word of mouth. MR. a: Do you recall who you heard it from? MS. a : Let’s see. I want to say Dr. Miller, who is the psychologist. I want to say Dr. Miller said that he has to have a cellmate. MR. a: So, she probably came down. Do you recall if she told other people in the SHU, in regards to that? MS. a: I don’t know because I wouldn't have been in the SHU. MR. a: All right. MS. a : Sorry. MR. QJ: 9 The reason I ask is, now that we know that Reyes is leaving the SHU, right? And he’s WAB, that, and the court list comes down, and our understanding is, on that court list, it states WAB -- MS. QJ: 9 vm-hon. MR. QJ: 9 -- and he’s brought down to R&D. And he’s removed from the facility. Whose responsibility would it have been, at that point, to make sure that Epstein had a cellmate? MS. a: I would say the supervisor. EFTA00126992

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LIMITED ies) w fos) ive) oO oo OFFICIAL USE 40 That was the SHU Lieutenant, whoever was on, because he would know that he’s leaving out of And this is the August aga If you take -. ld then become the next person -- a: he next person -- -- moving MS. ae: -- would be th Lieutenant, should have been notified. MR. ae : And who should have notified the Operations say, you know, this ions Lieutenant? Normally, the SHU staff would left, and, you know, a bunkie. And at what point -- ould the -- cellmate. EFTA00126993

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 41 2 MR. a : At what point should the HU staff have notified the Operations Ww wo I 4 Lieutenant? wi th Immediately. 6 s as that 4 8 s Mr. Reyes came out 9 10 And is it one 1 person over another, the SHU, that 2 should have told him? Or is it any one of WwW ct oa cu) =] 16 Ms ae: I would say any one 7 MR. a: Was there a person referred 8 to as the officer in charge, in the SHU, during EFTA00126994

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 42 Vac es. -- was there any specific 3 person, during that time period, who was 4 considered - it might not be listed as the SHU- 5 1 - but was considered to be the officer in 6 charge? 7 MS. ae: Yes. It would been the SHU 8 number one, which would be 9 MR. a : aa. But what about, we 10 heard other people refer to 11 though, the officer in charge. Because he’s 2 been in there the longest, at that point. ive) a Yes. Have you ever heard that? Yes. t oO a ir nm He would be the ¢ 7 MS. He was the OIC, probably for co the quarter, I would s 9 MR. Ee : And why wouldn’t he be , he was. 20 listed as SHU-1, if he was the OIC for the 21 quarter? Do you know? No N 175) He could have been on his day 23 off I don't know 24 MR. a : No, no. He was there. 25 And we heard that -- EFTA00126995

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 43 1 MS. a: Oh, he was? 2 MR. a : -- he’s actually was the not listed as one. 4 MS. ae: Oh, I don't know. I didn't number three. I don’t -. Ww C H Qa a8 Gc rt a o it) Ww @ o o n oO o a pe a wu ts rt 7 oO 6 I don't know. 7 MR. a : But he should t 8 listed as one, because he was the quarter -- been o tr n H Hh ct a fu rt = ral} it his -- Nm ct he quarter, he should have been listed as the ive) A SHU number one. mutual thing, or something to that effect. 7 MR. a: And a. at that point, 019, had enough experience in the SHU, as t oO wu ie] 3 No c b <e) 9 the SHU OIC, from your recollection? 20 MS Yeah. a: So, the morning of, what 22 happened based on our investigation, is Epstein 23 and his cellmate, Reyes, were removed at the 24 same time. So, Officer | came in. EFTA00126996

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 44 w ~] ive) MR. a: With the court order. He knew -- MR. a : Court list. MR. a : -- court list, and he knew that Reyes was leaving. So, they packed up his stuff in a little brown paper bag, and | retrieved Epstein from his cell, also, and they both were transported on the elevator down together. Epstein to attorney conference, and Reyes out. MS. QJ: okay. MR. a: And we know, in the elevator, m too, there was a conversation about Epstein needing a cellmate. Ms. QJ: 9 okay. MR. a: Now, being that fF escorted him down, and down, he was in the elevator, and | was in the elevator, knowing that Reyes is leaving, out of them two, should either of them have made a notification immediately? MS. a: Yes. MR. a: Do you think they would have known that it was important that they made the notification? EFTA00126997

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 45 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. a: Yes. MR. a: Why do you think that? MS. a: If you had a conversation about him needing a cellmate, that means - to me —- you know that it was important for him to have one. And you knew that his - obviously - Mr. Reyes was leaving WAB. And Epstein needed a cellmate. So, or I feel, like, right then and there, the notification should have been made. Even though he’s in attorney conference, but his cellmate is leaving, lieutenant, we need a cellmate for him. MR. a : Is there any reason for them to believe that, even though it showed WAB, that Reyes - that for them to believe that Reyes would be coming back? MS. a : I would say no. If it says WAB, that’s what it is. I would assume that he’s not coming back. MR. a: Now, if, let’s say they’ve mentioned sometimes they bring inmates down to R&D, and the bus doesn't come. Or they’re not going to court, and sometimes they come back up. How long does that process normally take? MS. a: It happens. Hmm. I’ve seen EFTA00126998

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 46 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it be a couple of hours, before the inmates will come back up. MR. a: So, this is, they were brought down any time between 8:00 a.m. and 8:30 a.m. Ms. GJ: 9 n-homn. MR. a : So, when you say a couple hours, we’re talking about anywhere between 10:00 and 10:30 a.m.? MS. a : Yeah. I’ve seen inmates come up later. You know, an hour and a half, you know, he didn't -. He’s not leaving on a bus. Once they get everybody on the bus, they will go back up to Special Housing. MR. a: Now, if the inmate was not brought back up to the SHU, let’s say by even 11:00 a.m., right? Because if they’re expecting that there is a possibility that the inmate might come back up, and it doesn't happen by 11:00 a.m., should they have made a notification? MS. a : They normally would. And because they - I'm going to reach and say - they assumed he was leaving, because he didn't come back -- EFTA00126999

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 47 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) MR. a: I should clarify that -- MS. a: -- come by then. MR. ae : -- I mean, I meant notification, should | or anybody in the wu SHU, at that point, at 11:00, notified the superior, hey, listen - supervisors - hey, listen, Reyes is gone, and Epstein is -- MR. a : And not 11:00. Just during their shift. At some point, if they left their shift at 2:00 p.m. without making a notification, should have they known by 2:00 p-m., at the very least, that he was not coming back? MS. a: Absolutely. MR. a : Okay. So, at some point, prior to 2:00 p.m., a notification should have been made? MS. a : Yes. Yes. MR. a : And you mentioned that it should have been to the SHU Lieutenant. Lieutenant || is not there. And it should have been the ops lieutenant. Who was the ops lieutenant during that shift? The morning shift. EFTA00127000

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 48 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a: And he should have been notified, and what should have PY done? MS. a : He should have notified, of course, his chain of command, which is the captain, hey, Epstein’s cellmate has left, and he needs a cellmate. And that, also, we would have told psychology, you know, Epstein’s cellmate left. He needs a cellmate because somebody vetted the cellmates. So, I would say, I guess, they would go back to that process of seeing who was a good fit for him. MR. a : And if - what is your understanding - if that notification was never made up the chain of command? MR. Ee : What’s your question? MS. a: Yeah. MR. a: What is your understanding, if they never made -? Was somebody at fault, in terms of -. I should clarify that. If that notification never got -. If | never told the ops lieutenant, and the ops lieutenant never told the captain, right? When was the next time they would have caught onto the fact Epstein needed a cellmate? EFTA00127001

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. a: Again, I would say somewhere between that shift, they should have made that notification. If not, it would have went onto the evening shift, that he still was without a cellmate. MR. a: And you said that the inmate was vetted. So, could anyone have assigned a cellmate to Epstein? Anyone in the SHU assigned somebody to be Epstein’s cellmate? MS. a : Normally, in a case where they try to get that good fit, they would talk to the captain, who would have talked to psychology, and they’1ll go through the SHU roster to see who they think would be suitable to put him in with. MR. a: Okay. Do you have anything else on that? MR. a : Yes. So, when you go to - you said the next shift - so, who -? So, you’re saying that, after | left, and his shift left, then the next shift in the SHU should have, then, made the same notifications up the chain of command? MS. a: If they’re saying he didn't have a cellmate. 49 EFTA00127002

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) MR. Ee : Okay. And then, would that go on again to the morning watch? Because, again, he didn't have a shift for 24 hours. So, every shift, should have they made that notification up? MS. a: I would say yes. MR. a : Okay. And is it your understanding that the operations lieutenant actually has that same court list, that they would have Headquarters, that would have shown him as WAB? MS. a: The court list, yeah. Usually, it’s in the lieutenant’s office, in the mornings. MR. a : Okay. So, if | says that he actually knows that Reyes left, or thought he went to court, and didn't know if he wasn’t going to come back, if he had that court list, that said WAB, should have he referenced that, or looked at it? of an excuse to say, for the operations that a kind 103) uw o EFTA00127003

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 51 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 lieutenant, hey, I know Reyes left, but I thought he was coming back, and he - or I didn't know if he wasn’t coming back - and he did not pass that information onto the next ops lieutenant. Is there - what is your opinion of that matter? MS. a : My opinion of that is definitely, you know, something is wrong, because if you have the court list sitting in front of you, it says WAB. And it means he took all his belongings. You know, if it was court, it would say court. MR. a : Okay. And do you know how, do the operations lieutenants actually look at that list? MS. a: I can't speak for -. MR. ae : Are they supposed to? MS. a: I would say yes. MR. QJ: Okay. MS. a: Because you know who’s moving from the Special Housing. And some of the inmates that move actually are lieutenant moves, where you have to go up and get them. So, you’re going to look at the court list to see who is moving. EFTA00127004

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 52 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a : Okay. And then, as far as Reyes. Did everyone know who Reyes was at that time? Do you believe that, if, for instance, someone like a a. he sees Reyes on the list, sees that he’s WAB. Would he know that’s Epstein’s cellmate? It says he’s from the SHU. He’s WAB. Would he know that that’s Epstein’s cellmate? Or do you think that that notification would still need to be made from the SHU, for him to be able to kind of recognize that? MS. a: I can't even say he should have known that that was his cellmate because he’s in a different area than the Special Housing. MR. Ee : Okay. MS. a: So, sometimes, you wouldn’t know whose cell that up there, you know, up in the Special Housing. MR. a : Okay. But if he says, now, SHU didn't tell me, that I knew because I had the court list, and it says WAB, should have he known, at that point, yes, I knew this guy was gone, and he was not coming back? MS. a: Yes. EFTA00127005

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2 MS. a: I can agree with that. wo ios) 3 MR a : Okay. Great. What do 4 you think the -? Would that court list stay in 5 the operations, or the lieutenants office, 6 throughout the duration of the day, would the 7 next operation lieutenant that came on - which 8 I believe is Fs - would that person ve 9 also had that court list? 10 MS. a: It normally stay in there for 11 the day. On a clipboard. It usually would be 2 on a clipboard in the lieutenant’s office. So, 3 I don’t -. I can't say that a. you know, 4 looked at it, but it should have been there 15 when he came on. 16 MR. Ee : Should have he looked at 8 MS. a : I could -. 9 MR. Ee : And I'm asking you this 20 as the SIS lieutenant. We don’t know the 21 answer to that. So, that’s why we’re asking 22 you. 23 MS. a: A good lieutenant would. 24 MR. QM: Right. 25 MS. ae: Because you would know who is EFTA00127006

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 not in your jail. 2 4 what would the unit teams’ 5 for if one of their people who was as 6 SHU, left the institution? ~] been coordinating, or I'm when the inmates wo play 10 housing, to be honest uw r= Right. As far as other people that could have made this notification, responsibility be es) igned to Should have they making any notifications? not sure what role they leave the Special with you. You don’t? 2 MS. a : Yeah. I don't know what role 3 they play. 4 MR. QR: Okay. 15 Ms. QJ: 9=with their inmates. That’s 16 an issue, as far as them leaving. 7 MR. ae : All right. So, for you, 8 though, you feel, like, the primary person that 9 would be responsible would be the person who 20 was actually with the inmate, who brought him 21 down, 22 vs. SE: Yes and knew that he was leaving? So, in 24 | ti‘<@®“ | should have made the 25 notifications, it falls primarily on him. Is EFTA00127007

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 55 1 that what you would say? other officer did the escort with him. 4 MR. a : Okay. Fair enough. ecause they know the SHU ies) wi th to 7 MR. QJ: | Right. okay. 8 MR. a: What about the officers in 9 ct ics oO o , at that point? Let’ if) a say there was - 10 how many officers that you mentioned? - a. 11 and who else were in the nN In the morning shift. ive) a) t oO i Should they have -. Would Les] rt J 0] a oY] ® fan S 2) = 3 that Epstein needed a cellmate? a : Yes. If they’re working up - its] n 21 MR. ae: And let’s say, during this 22 shift, should they have understood - I know he 23 asked already - should they have understood the 24 fact that, hey, Epstein needed a cellmate -- EFTA00127008

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LIMITED ioe) io ioe) oO oo 19 OFFICIAL one in 7 would have from doing round From doing their And if they we -- doing rounds, Mm-hmm. counts. 0) that EFTA00127009

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 ~J] uw our - based on what we - in our investigation, we understood is, the 4:00 p.m. count, on the 9th. The 10:00 p.m. count. MS. EJ: 9 Mm-hon. MR. a: The midnight. The 3:00 a.m., and the 5:00 a.m. counts were not done. Ms. QJ: = Right. MR. a: And if the counts were done, as Agent Dennis just asked, if the counts were done at 4:00 p.m., would they have known that Reyes was not there, and Epstein needed a cellmate? MS. a: Yes. MR. a: What about at 10:00 p.m.? MR. a: All right. And the reason that we were able to determine it, is also because of the fact that inmate Fernandez was removed from the SHU by a . He was actually in the SHU visiting room, and there was an incident where | witnessed him possibly having contraband, so he removed him. He called for a lieutenant, and put him into a dry cell in R&D. MS. EJ: 9 Mm-hom. EFTA00127010

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 58 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a: Except he was not keyed out. This happened around 1:45 on August 93th, after -. Except he was not keyed until after midnight on August 10th. So, if he was removed from the SHU, and he was placed in R&D dry cell, who should have -? Who had the responsibility to key him out, at that point? off the SHU and place him in R&D? MS. a: It would have been the counts and assignment, to walk those in. MR. QJ: §9oThat’s a CNA? MS. a: Yes. MR. a : I see. Counts and assignment. And how would CNA have known that he got moved? MS. a: Well, normally, they would make a notification, I would say, when he got to R&D, that, hey, we have this inmate here, in the dry cell. MR. a: So, R&D should have notified counts and assignments? MS. a : Yes. MR. a: Was there any responsibility for the officer who removed him from the SHU, and brought him down? EFTA00127011

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 uw wo MS. a: He could have, as well. Because you brought him down. And he’s coming off of the SHU base count. MR. a : What is -? He’s coming off the count -- Ms. QJ: 9 Right. MR. a: -- so, at 4:00 p.m., the count should have been adjusted on the El, and also -- MS. a: Absolutely. MR. a: -- okay. Have you ever heard of inmates pre-filling the rounds and count sheets? MS. QJ: 9 Inmates? MR. a: Oh. Sorry. Sorry. I apologize. Have you ever heard of the C.0O.s pre-filling the rounds and count sheets? When, let’s just say the rounds there abouts (Indiscernible *00:43:25) of their shift. MS. BJ: 9 ves. MR. a: Right? And they go in, they have their round sheet. They expect to do the rounds during the certain times, so they go in and they fill it out for the whole shift. And they try to do it during those times that they EFTA00127012

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 60 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 filled out. MS. a: I’ve never seen it, to be honest with you. I’ve never seen that. MR. : Have you ever heard of C.0O.s doing that? MS. No. MR. : Has there ever been any incidents in MCC regarding C.0O.s pre-filling -? MS. Not that I know of. MR. : What about the count sheets? Would they start the shift, they already know what count is supposed to be there? MS. a : I’ve seen that. MR. QJ: 9 And what have you seen? MS. a: Well, my experience being a lieutenant, and being in the control center, taking the count, I have seen count slips come down to the control center, and I'm monitoring the camera because I'm physically watching you count. So, if I have your count sheet, and I haven't seen you count yet, I'm discarding it, and I'm calling you on the phone. How do I have your count sheet and you haven't counted yet? MR. a: Is that normal procedure as a EFTA00127013

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 61 w ~] ive) lieutenant, when you’re doing the count from the control room, you pay attention to the monitor, and you watch -? MS. a : I could only speak for myself. MR. a: So, as your practice. MS. BJ: 31 do. MR. a: And you watch the C.0O.s to make sure that they’re doing the counts. MS. a: Absolutely. MR. a: Which C.0.s have you seen that haven't done that? That haven't done the counts, but send their count slips in. vs 4 17) yg fft. I can't give you exact names because I’ve been on all of the shifts. MR. a: And what happens if, ina situation like that, if you see that, that they didn't do the count, but they send the slip down? What do you do? MS. a: I'm pulling. I'm doing a verbal counseling. MR. a: Verbal counseling. MS. a : Yes. I'm doing a verbal EFTA00127014

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 62 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 counseling. Basically, listen, don’t send me your count slip until you do your count. Next time, I'm going to go to the next step, which is discipline. MR. And have you ever told them to go back and count? MS. a : Yes. MR. a: And they followed it? MS. a: Yes. MR. a: What is a lieutenant round? You understand it, you just mentioned that, when you do a count -- MR. In the SHU. What is a lieutenant round in the SHU? MR. -- yeah. MS. In the SHU, with the lieutenant rounds, you go up to SHU, as well as every other area, you see if there’s anything abnormal going on in the SHU, you’re going to ask a question. You know, anything we should know about, anything you got going on up there. You’re just making sure that the officers are doing their job for the shift, the inmates are getting their phone calls, if there’s any inmates that haven't been showered, who may EFTA00127015

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 63 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 shower. You’re making sure those are done. Normally, when you go in the SHU, you have inmates calling you, once you get there. MR. QJ: Right. MS. a: Once the door open. So, you’re going on the ranges and seeing what’s going on with the inmates on the ranges. MR. a : Now, are you supposed to go from door to door, when your lieutenant does a round, though? Is the lieutenant supposed to do a round just as, like, a C.0. that’s working the SHU does a round, go to each cell, to check and see -- MS. QJ: 9 To be honest -- MR. a : -- what’s going on? MS. a: -- I don’t think there’s nothing in policy stating that we have to go door to door, and see each inmate, but you - most of the time - you will go on a range, I would assume, because you want to see what’s going on. With the inmates. Especially since it’s the Special Housing. MR. a : So, this is where we get a lot of discrepancies. So, most of the lieutenants say absolutely, you have to go door EFTA00127016

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 64 w ~] to door, and that’s what a round is. Select few of the lieutenants say, like, no, no, no, no, that’s not -. It’s your discretion, if you do that or not. So, are you kind of more of that, that kind of side of it, it’s their discretion? MS. a: I'm more of -. MR. a : Because they have to sign when they - is it correct - that they have to sign the round sheet -- MR. a : -- saying they dida MS. a: So, normally, like myself, I would be on the range, because the round sheets are on the range. So, you have to go on the range to sign the round sheets. MR. a : But do you have - but just to go on the range, I guess you don’t necessarily have to look in -- Ms. QJ: 9 Right. MR. ae : -- their window. MS. a: Right. But if you go on, you’re going to look door to door. I would EFTA00127017

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 65 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 think. MR. a : But this time, our understanding is the round sheets were actually kept on the officer’s desks. On the desk out - So, not on the range. They all did it right from where the desk was. Do you know if that’s the case? MS. QJ: 31 don't. I don't know. This is the first I'm hearing of it. Because normally, they’re at the end of the range. MR. a : Right. MS. a: On the wall. So, that’s going to force you, as a supervisor, to go on each range because you have to go to the end of the range to sign. MR. a : Okay. Do you know if there is maybe MCC didn't have this practice, but do you know, as the BOP, as a lieutenant round that’s conducted in the SHU, and that the lieutenant that actually signs the round sheet, saying that they conducted the round in the SHU, do you know if BOP policy says that they’ re supposed to go from cell, door to door, and that’s the reason why they put these sheets at the end of the ranges? EFTA00127018

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. a: I don’t recall if that’s what 2 the policy says. 3 MR. QM: okay. 4 MS. QJ: 9 Yeah. w MR. QE: And just as far as 6 clarification, do you know if BOP policy states 7 where the count sheets, or the round sheets are 8 supposed to be kept? Forget the fact that you 9 have to look at it, but does it state that it 10 should be either kept on the officer’s desk, or 11 at the end of the -? 12 MS. a: I’ve never seen -- 13 MR a: Okay. 14 MS. a: -- yeah. I’ve never seen 15 that policy where it should be kept that. 16 MR. a: Okay. That’s just practice? 17 MS. a: Yes. 18 MR a: Okay. Do you have anything 19 on the rounds and counts? 20 MR. QJ: No. =I guess I just, do 21 you think if the lieutenants that did the 22 rounds within the SHU, on August 9th, have any 23 exposure to the fact that Reyes was gone, and 24 should have they - when they did their rounds - 25 should have they known that, hey, this cell is EFTA00127019

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] oa ~J empty, Epstein’s down at attorney conference, and Reyes isn't here, so there’s no one in that cell. Should have they been, you know, should have they known -? MR. QM: okay. MS. a: If you knew that on the count slip - I'm sorry - on the court roster that he was WAB, and you see Epstein downstairs, then if you’re paying attention, you would just -. That’s something you would have asked. Hey, we got a cellmate for him yet? Who he’s going with. That type of thing. MR. ae : Okay. So, those lieutenants that actually did do the rounds in the SHU, on that date, then they do have some fault in this, that Reyes was never replaced? MS. a: I'm going to say yes. MR. QJ: Okay. MR. QEBMJ: 9 Anything else on rounds and counts? I'm moving onto cameras. MR. ae : Perfect. MR. a: Okay. When did you learn that the cameras were not working at the MCC? EFTA00127020

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 68 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a: August 8th. Okay. MS. a: Yes. MR. a: Can you tell us what transpired? MS. a: I actually was reviewing the cameras from the SIS office, with one of the associate wardens. We were looking for an inmate, to see what time he was released, a cadre (Phonetic Sp. *00:50:30) inmate. We were looking to see what time he was released because I was trying to backtrack, because I was going to interview the inmate, with an OIG officer, about an incident. And I learned, he’s gone. And I said, gone where? Oh, his release date - which, he was scheduled to be released - so, that made me go back to look to see, well, let me see what time they released him. And we were trying to pinpoint when he got released, so we could get in touch with that halfway house. So, we - myself and the agent - was going to go to the halfway house, to interview him. And upon me going back to the cameras, I said, wait a minute, we don’t have no cameras. I can't go back. So, of course, I clicked on EFTA00127021

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 69 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 several cameras, just to see if I could play it back on the cameras, and I noticed the cameras are down. I can't go back and rewind anything. At that time, I called the communications shop, and told them, I don’t have no cameras up here. You know, I can't go. I can't play it back. A gentleman came upstairs and said, okay, I'm going to come and check the camera system, which he has the keys for, as well. And he did check it out, and he said, okay, the cameras is not working. I'm going to fix them. I'm going to do overtime or something to that effect. To fix the cameras. At that time, I notified the captain. MR. a : Oh, you notified the captain? MS. a: Yes. MR. a : That the cameras were down? MS. a: That the cameras was down. And I wrote a memo - a memorandum - as well. MR. a : Oh, if you have that, can you please give it to us? MS. a: It’s - I can't get in my home drive - it would be on my home drive. EFTA00127022

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 70 1 MR. Ee : And when will you be able WwW th U he 3 o co rt oO Fh = re) in tal U e) + Pay fu 3 f wi aw a : Oh, we have heard that you were back this week. Is 7 MS. EJ: No. 8 MR. QJ: oh. n rt ion wy cr s oO rt rt is oO re] fu tH o 9 MS. a : I'm not back this week. I 10 only came for the interview. I won't be back 11 for maybe, like, another two to three weeks. MR . a : When you come back in two three weeks, could you - I’11 send you an N Fs Ww ie) Kh 4 email, just as far as, like -- t oO @ 3 ju = b me where to send it to, yes. that point, I did type Les] H U ie) uy rt 9 the memo that the cameras was done. 22 Okay 23 Yes. And I assumed that the 24 gentleman was going to stay and fix the cameras 25 that day EFTA00127023

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oO io ioe) oO oo ian,” are you talking é¢ only obtain access to the camera room, if an a: The first door, which is th oO r with the Po (Phonetic Sp. MR. EFTA00127024

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 72 uw ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 the 8th, he was actually going to stay and fix MS. a: And do overtime to fix it. office, so he can go see what I was telling him, the cameras is down. I can't play back. MR. a : Okay. And do you know if that’s the first time it was noticed, that those cameras were down? MS. a: I can't say that that was the first time that was noticed. MR. a : Because our investigation shows that, as early as 7/29/2019, those cameras stopped recording. So, there is about half of the cameras in the institution that were recording, and half that weren’t. They were all live monitoring. MS. J: 9 Yes. MR. QJ: | But did you find anything about that, or do you know anything about that? MS. a: No. No. It’s not until I was actually in the phone room, with the agents, going through the cameras, that we realized that they stopped recording. EFTA00127025

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LIMITED OFFICIAL 1 MR. Ee : Oh, so, you knew this on Oo ! a =I | you know that now, is Oo oo 95 EFTA00127026

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 74 1 MS. a: Yes. 2 MR. a : Do you remember if, prior 3 to the 8th, you ever were on the camera system, 4 trying to rewind and watch? Because I would 5 think that’s something you do kind of 6 regularly. 7 MS. a : I can't remember if it was 8 myself, or the SIS tech a. to be honest with 9 you, because normally, if it’s an incident and 10 I need some video footage, I’1l ask her to pull 11 the footage for me. You know? So, I can see 2 it. So, I can't recall if we had an incident 3 where we need to pull any camera footage. 4 MR. ae : Okay. So, you don’t remember if there was footage before that. 7 MR. ae : Was there a tech i. or 8 Tate, or something like that? 9 MS. a : Phone monitor. 20 MR. QJ: fe «was on -- 21 MS. ae: Yeah. | | was the phone w 22 monitor, which is a regular correctional 23 officers. 24 MR. a : Oh, so, he’s not an SIS 25 tech? EFTA00127027

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LIMITED ies) w co ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE 75 MS. QJ: =No. Hmm-nmn. MR. a : All right. But would he work in the SIS room? MS. ae: In the phone room. ae: He would be assigned, for the quarter, to the phone room. MR. a : That’s in the SIS office? MS. a : It’s not in my office, but it’s a part of SIS. The phone room. It’s kind MR. a : Is that the room where need someone from SIS to let him in, to be able MR. Ee : How does he MS. ae: He has the phone monitor he keyring for him to get into the ~ 0) k a) D wu im Mh rt MR. a : To get into -- MS. ae: I'm sorry. The EFTA00127028

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 16 2 2 P 4 5 I don’t know if he was 6 working because he hadn’t been in the phone room for some -- 8 MR. a : Would he be listed on the 10 MS. a: -- let me lo Because they 11 were actually pulling him every day, re- 2 assigning him to different posts. So, he is 3 working, but tt re-assigned him to another P et 4 post - he wasn’t actually working? a: If you see three Sally, you’1ll see him there. 9 MR. Ee : And would that be because F oO ct D o « ct 7 co 20 there was no SIS tech or lieutenant to allow 21 him into that room? 22 MS. a: No. It would be because they nN Fs) Oo ~ wu te No w n EFTA00127029

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) ~ I to another post. that he wasn’t able to fix the cameras on the 7) 8th because he didn't have the proper equipment, and then he couldn’t gain access on the 9th. Does that make sense? He wasn’t able to get in on the 9th because neither you or the tech were here. MS. a: He would be able to get in because my keys don’t go home with me. He would have just had to ask the captain for access to the SIS keys, and he would have been i) able to go into the office. MR. ae : And like you said, the captain actually knew that the cameras were down? MS. a: Yes. MR. a : And you are positive of that? MS. EJ: §='m positive. MR. a : Did you have a verbal conversation with him about it? MS. a: I had a verbal conversation. MR. a : And can you recall what that conversation entailed? EFTA00127030

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LIMITED ioe) w io ioe) its) No Wa OFFICIAL USE 78 MS. a: I remember stepping to his >, which was rig offi xt door to mine, notifying him that the camer was down, that I'm trying to go back and look at the foo and I can't. of the associate wardens with me, as well. Who happens to be his supervisor, so. MR. a : Who was that? Associate Warden ia. wasn’t Captain then, t two of them knew that the cameras were down? All right. And do you c-ions with | know if they had any conv EFTA00127031

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 ~) wo about a need to get them back up? MS. a: I don't know if they had a separate conversation, but when I called Mr. | over to radio, Ms. || was still standing there with me in the office. And she was there with me when he came up to check, because we thought it was something that maybe he can just go in, and it allow us to go to the camera, and look for what we were looking for. MR. a : And when he mentioned the whole I’ll stay overtime, was she there when - was || there - when he mentioned that he would stay to work overtime? MS. QR: 31 can't remember because I know he had to get in touch with his boss first. MR. ae : Oh, okay. So -- MS. a: Mm-hmm. MR. Ee : -- so, | told us that he was approved to work overtime on Saturday, to come in on Saturday and work. Do you know who he would have contacted, in order to get that approval to work overtime? MS. a: I don't know. I would assume his boss, which was Mr. | | (Phonetic Sp. EFTA00127032

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LIMITED ies) w fos) ioe) oo OFFICIAL USE 80 MR. a : Now, || is out, and he has acting in his life, || | (Phonetic both say, he didn't talk to me about working *00:58:47). Sp. *00:58:53), that he would have been -? Well, because you said that he to work overtime. Would you be an approving MR. a : Would | | be an approving official, though? MS. ae: I'm not sure if she was over facilities, that department. So, I’m - no - I'm not know he would be able to 7) 0) how did he MR. ae : You don’t know? He just said I’1l1 work overtime. assuming EFTA00127033

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 81 1 this was some time prior to 2:00 p.m. on the 2 8th, that you learned of this incident, since 3 his shift typically ends at 2:00 p.m B U Ss o wu 7 bet tT = a Lv ou b } tT ct bh it fw rh ct i) K w r fo) uel =] 6 MR. a : Okay. And that was the 7 8th. But again, on the 8th was the first that 8 you found out the cameras -- o th 7) ts @ un i=) a a : -- were down? Do you 11 know if there is anyway anyone could have tampered with that to intentionally nN ive) take the cameras offline? 4 MS. a: I don’t know. I don't know 5 - with the 16 one more though, at oo 5 = wu fo ea ) rt a 0 KR 0 No No Ww Nm GB 70 oO | | it was just - at the 24 time - it was only a. Correct? 25 MS. ae: Yes. It was just a. EFTA00127034

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE a whole intenti two of monitor key on ink car there, door ba just wa MR. oo Ee : So, who would have had to that server rom? Now, in the MCC as , who could have had access to that 3) room, and would potentially taken it ae: I don't know who would onally take it off, but I can tell you ess would have been us, from the SIS Hmm. The comm shop, which is Mr. | a. And I'm not sure if their key - key is on, in the other key ring. a : So, is it really only the you, then, with S individual, i. Is it || or Tate? then also the phone a : I don’t think Mr. | | had the his ring because, if I needed to go, my tridges for my printer and stuff was in as well. So, I would always lock the ck, because we don’t allow an officer to 1k where the server is at. EFTA00127035

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LIMITED OFFICIAL 1 3 was x 6 have tech would have? 0 a] w co t t @ Yes. She would. Oo n I | | ry n 3 t a D i 1] fu t EFTA00127036

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE co 3 MR. a : Is that right? 4 Ms. EJ: « -- 5 6 9 1 understanding -- know. was that | was tech at the time. t ct : @ oO an oO oo 21 But again, I'm not sure what 22 MR. QJ: «9 what about th 23 MS. a: I don’t know. 24 MR. Po : Now, when ow what’s on his EFTA00127037

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LIMITED ~] wo 10 11 OFFICIAL USE 85 keyrings. MR. a : -- now, you say you don’t ever leave the institution with these keys, did you give them to the captain, or where are the keys? MS. ae: No. They’re located in the control center, behind a locked box. MR. a : Okay. MS. a : So, I have to give them the key to open my locked box in order for me to retrieve my SIS keys. MR. a : Okay. And then, does anybody else have that key, to open your locked box, to get those keys? MR. Ee : What are -? You said the captain does, though? I thought you said he could have gone to the captain to get the keys. MR. Ee : He can't get into my locked box. He has his own locked box. MR. ae : So, how would -. I think you -. I though you said that the captain could have allowed | MS. a : He would have had them allowed to break the glass, and get my key out. o get in -? rt u EFTA00127038

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. Ee : They would have had to -- 2 MS. a: If it was another -- -- actually break it? 4 MS. ae: -- they would have to Myself, the SIS tech, oo a ies) a w w aQ ct i= wu ~ b kK on KB oO fu ct y o cal fii) — it] 6 all of our keys are in a locked box. So, if 7 it’s an emergency, you would have to break the oO F H it) rr H p- oO o 12) K by 5 o B. | rt > fp. ifs case, you i=) believe that would be an emergency, that they N ct oa 1) ive) Normally, yes. 4 MR. ae : So, you think that that would have been appropriate action, to break oO Lee) 5 Okay. And then, the not actually have a key to get office, though? 21 Ms. ER: = No. 22 MR. ae : Does anyone else? i. 24 MS. a : No. I think it’s only on the 25 staff, the phone monitor, the SIA, which we EFTA00127039

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 3 ) ~ 1 didn't have one at the time. 2 MR. a : Okay. But you’re certain 3 that | and a. on the 8th, were aware 4 that there was a camera issue, and not 5 recording? 7 MR. a : Do you know if they 8 notified the warden? MS. a : I don’t recall. 11 MS. a: Because I notified the wo i=) 2 warden. And he seemed a little -- MR. a : Notified the warden when? 4 MS. QJ: 9 -- on the 10th. Okay. ive) F F Oo w Hn & 5 ‘ the 10th. Once I came in, 7 once the incident happened. And me and him was 8 having a conversation, and he was saying, and 9 there’s no cameras working, and I said, what do 20 you mean there’s no cameras working? I said, 21 | was supposed to fix the cameras on the 22 8th, and, you know, he was surprised, like, 23 what are you talking about? And I said, the 24 cameras went down on the 8th. Warden and I 25 notified | that the cameras was down. And EFTA00127040

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE oo co I wrote a memo. a : And what happened with your memo? Who gets that memo? might would emailed MR. ae: My memo, I usually give it to a : Okay. And do you know, did you give it to the captain? MM: =< did I to look at my email. I might a : And would have you -? And I mic have emailed it to aa. Again, I can't remember -- in, can you check your sent box, and see 8th, th would have done this on the ough? It would been on the Yes, a : So, you would have - it EFTA00127041

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 sounds, like, potentially - hand-de 2 him? 4 MR. QJ: and emailed, I mean, one or the other? 6 MS. a: Normally, because door, I would hand deliver him stuf w ~] 9 MS. a: To be honest. An 10 I would email it to him if his door 11 and I don’t see him. Or don’t know 2 going to see him before I leave. 3 MR. a : Okay. But yo 4 positive, on the 8th, you gave him 15 one way or the other? 16 MS. a: Yeah. I'm almost 7 I'm not going to say 100 percent su 8 know I verbally told him that the c 9 down 20 MR. QJ: Are you 100 p 21 that there was a memo, though? 22 MS. a: Yes. 23 MR. a : But you may - 24 say you’re not 100 percent sure - w 25 would have you potentially done tha o \o livered to or both? Or he’s next f. d sometime, is closed, if I'm u are that memo, - though, re - but I ameras was ercent sure when you hen else t memo? EFTA00127042

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co when you say you’re not 100 percent OFFICIAL USE 90 MS. a: No. I did the memo on the Ms. BJ: =f 1 -- MR. a : -- right, you’re not -- MS. ae: -- emailed it to him, I'm ‘re 100 percent a: Yes. And I notified him, MR. a : Okay, and that - sorry - to make sure I'm you know for a fact you You just don’t know if you MR. a : But it’s definitely, he EFTA00127043

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LIMITED ies) w co io ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 91 she was with me. involved. was with me. stayed with me. I MS. ae: Because we couldn’t get what Were they both under the impression that ; was actually work the camera ng on ask, well, or anything MS. : No. don’t remember them M if I ’ b t EFTA00127044

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LIMITED ies) w co io ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 92 cing to a. I just know -- MR. a : No. When you verbally with a. though, and | about the 7, I notified a. he said he’ll take care of it, or anything like situation, did you that? she was on the phone -. was on the phone, talking to Mr. a. standing next to me w MS. a: Mm-hmm. MR. a : What about tt though? Did he know? MS. a: No. He wasn’t near me. MR. QJ: ) Did he ask, like, is or anything like to you telling him that the cameras were EFTA00127045

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE wo ot) MS. a: He asked me, did I notify MR. a : That was my question. MR. a: Was the captain surprised the cameras were down? It’s our job to notify who we need to notify to MR. ae: Do you Like, did he Make sure | takes care of it. What was his exact reaction to that A J ct D 5) J notification? EFTA00127046

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 94 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MS. a: I can't recall. MR. a: Okay. MS. a: I can't recall. MR. a : And did | ever come back and tell you that he couldn’t fix it that day, on the 8th? MS. a : No. He told me that on the 10th. MR. a : What did he tell you on the 10th? MS. a: Once I walked into the Special Housing area on the 10th, he was there. I don’t know if he was working that day. But he was there, and when the door opened, you know, my response was, well, what happened to the cameras? And he said, oh, that’s what I'm here for today. Which was two days later. I'm here today to fix it. But I guess they pulled him, and put him on the post, or something to that effect. And I said, but you told me you was going to fix them on the 8th. And he was, like, I couldn’t fix them on the 8th. I can't remember why he said he couldn’t. But I think he responded to me before I could even ask the question, once he saw me because I was a little EFTA00127047

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) taken back that the cameras assumed they was going to 95 were down. Because be fixed on the 8th. MR. QJ: Okay. MR. a: Can I ask you, when you guys were — you and AW | | - were reviewing footage, and you realized it wasn’t working, you called ae What was fF reaction to finding out the cameras were not working? down and take a look at it. un. : ongoing - it was already an He said he was going to come Did he mention it was an issue, he was aware of it, or was that the first he was hearing about it? Do you recall? MS. J: No. MR. GJ: 9 No? MS. a: -- he didn't say. He didn't -- He just said, okay, I'm going to come take a look at it un. SE: And then, he came down, both of you guys were in the room, and he tried to - MS. a: No. I was n’t in there with him. I just opened the door so he could get EFTA00127048

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE wo an in. And he went in, and he came back, and he said, yeah, they’re not recording, and he made a phone call, or he walked away one, and he said, I'm going to stay and do overtime, tonight. MR. a : And he did specifically say “tonight”? MS. vertime, that would be on his webTA? K o n And if he did w rt) t wu — Well -- MR It a : -- well, no, we know he But -- . should be. MR. didn't. MR Ee : -- as far as, if both you and the other S left, would he have been able to still stay in, on the 8th, in the camera room, to be able to work on it? MS. Yes. 5 a] pu ke it’s been times s fi) fs) w oO Q ral} c oH oO EFTA00127049

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 97 1 that he needed to do work, and I needed to go 2 home. And the captain would say, okay, well, 3 leave your keys with me, you know, so he could 4 have access wi aw Okay. ae: To the room. 7 MR. a : So, when you left that 8 day, did you check ack in with ma at all, 9 to say, like -- i=) a: I sure didn’t. 1 MR. Ee : -- hey. You did not? ive) Fs) Okay. And do you know you told him I'm going to 5 take care of? Do you know what he did? f fo] = O 7 MR. ae : No. Did he stay in the co He left out the room. 20 He left out the room. 21 MR. QJ: 411 right. And then, did 22 you leave before the other tech, on the 8th? 23 MS. a: I would ft 2:00 24 after her, because she leaves at 2:00 25 MR. QJ: uh-huh. §=what time? ve left probably EFTA00127050

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. a: I can't remember what 2 happened that day. 4 MS. ae: Normally, I'm there between wo oo ies) i 5 2:00 -. More closer to 3:00, 6 Okay. 7 left, 00 or 3:00, and he said he 8 was coming back that day to f it, how would 9 have he done that? 10 a: Because I would have spoken 11 to the captain and said, hey, YY needs to in the com room. ie) Te} 1) rt 3 MR. a : Do you remember, did that 4 conversation occur? 5 16 4 8 wo a3 Okay. 20 MR. a: Nice Vision has that 21 administrative feature. Nice Vision is the 22 camera -- right? That 25 administrative feature is called Supervision. EFTA00127051

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LIMITED w ~] ive) OFFICIAL USE ite] wo Do you recall that? mR. QJ: «well -. MR. a : There was a couple different -- MR. EJ: 9 Name MR. a : -- names, for different applications, but there is one application called Supervision, and that you might be able to log into Supervision and see if the recorder errors are actually recording. Do you know if MS. a: No. I have - mine is SIS lieutenant access, so. MR. QJ: Right. MR. a: Who had administrative access to the camera system? MS. a: Meaning that Supervision? MR. a: Supervision. Who could go in, control the cameras, or take cameras offline? And mess with the cameras. MS. a: I don’t know. I would say computer services have access, and probably, I would say, facilities managers should have Supervision access. EFTA00127052

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 100 1 MR. But not the SIS Shop? a: a: ies) i 6 1. i: -- Ps Be i: w 7 basically who you’re saying 8 MS ma I don’t know. I don’t even 9 know if maz would !} 10 -. I don’t know. I would think, if it would be upper -- Yeah. Supervision 2 3 It’s not a title for, 4 -. It’s a title for the 5 app. So, like, there’s an app that like, 16 you know, these people are granted access to be 7 able to review and rewind, but then there’ its] co another app -- 20 MR. Ee : -- that allows you to 21 actually check to see if things are running 22 properly, and recording, an it ust called 23 Supervision. 24 MS. a : Oh, okay. 25 MR. a : That doesn't mean -- EFTA00127053

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 101 1 MS. a: Then that would be -- 2 MR. a : -- that you’re a supervisor. 4 MS. ae: -- that would be - I would say - that would be a. because th 6 area, the cameras. 7 MR. a : Okay. And do you know if ies) w o oF) t’s his w 8 anybody else would have the ability to do 9 things like that, to take, you know, recorders 10 on or offline, or to at le their 1 status with the camera system? ae: I don't know. If it is, it would be facilities shop. 4 MR. ae : So, but primarily, | ive) t oO 5 | J 5 ie] wh K o n 9 MR. Ee : Not you, though? 21 MR. ae : And in no way, while you 22 were -. Although, the only thing that would be 23 able to tip you off, if things weren’t 24 recording, is if y is) u started trying to rewind, 25 and it wasn’t rewinding. EFTA00127054

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 102 1 MS. a: If I tried to rewind, it 2 wouldn’t rewind. Or if they were red. It 3 would have, like, a red X on a camera. I know 4 that it’s a problem, even if it’s not working 5 at all Or something is wrong with it. 6 MR. QJ: Did that - on the 8th, when you were looking - were there any red X’ 8 MS. a: I don’t recall if -. Because cameras, and they’re in different s? 2 c ct i] wu b oO ~ 12) Mh i=) , I don’t recall there being a red nN ive) oO co No Nm No ion) EFTA00127055

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 103 1 to review it was, right? 2 MS. a: No. I don’t recall. Okay. So, but it had been a ies) a 4 little bit. It had been a little while? MS. QJ: 9 ves. w jthing else on the 8 MR. a : I think that’s all. Okay. 10 MR. a : That’s great information, wo F 11 that we didn't know that before. I didn't know 2 that that’s how we found out that the cameras ive) were offline -- 5 MR. a : -- was basically 16 review. How often should | have been 7 going in to check those servers to make sure 8 that they were online? 9 Ms. QJ: 9 baily. 20 MR. QJ: «So then, would you know 22 MS. a: I can't say he was checking 23 daily. I know that he was up there quite 24 often. But I can't even say that he was 25 checking the cameras because, one I let him in, EFTA00127056

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 to do whatever he’s doing with the 2 know, I wasn’t standing there, you 3 what are you doing, or, so -- And I know w -- but daily, th w = n 6 have checked. 7 MR a : -- I know we 8 long time ago now, but do you remember, 9 to the 8th, if he was in -? Becau 10 think the information that we have 11 that the camera servers went down 12 July 29th -- 3 MS a: Hmm. of 2019. like, almost a - more than a - s Lo iS, Week. L7 MR. ae : -- week -- 8 MS a: Yeah Yeah. 9 MR Ee : -- do you kn 20 actually going in, at that time, f 21 period, checking in on the servers 22 this -? 23 MS. a: I know he entere 24 But I don’t know if he checked the 25 while he were back there. But I k 104 servers, you know, e’re talk -- ey should ‘re talking a prior se again, I suggest fr) on the actual < So, there ow if he was or that week at all, at d the area. servers he now Was EFTA00127057

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 105 1 entering the area. WwW 5 rag fw er o ©, n 0 is in that area? 4 MS. ae: Just the servers in there. 5 And ink cartridges. At the top. 6 MR a : And that’s on the third 7 floor? 8 MS a: It’s on the third floor. 9 MR a : Okay. 10 MR a: And then, nothing else is 11 stored. Is there evidence stored in there? 2 Ms. EJ: No. 3 MR a: For some reason, we were 4 under the impression that SIS stored evidence 15 there. There’s no evidence in there. ' oO mn 7 It’s some old file cabinets from, maybe before co 4 20 that there was maybe, it’s like a hallway, and 21 there’s, like, some evidence, some old 22 evidence, or evidence there. 23 a: Not where the servers are. 24 But it’s some file cabinets, where the servers 25 are. And I think that’s maybe some archive S EFTA00127058

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 106 i) hh K 8) | I I 1 ca 2 MR. P| : Okay. MR. a : Okay. 4 MS. ae: -- a long time ago. MR. a: So, next topic? MR. SJ: 9 -hoon. 7 MR. a : Okay. So, what was your es is] ies) w Oo 8 understanding about not in his 9 assigned cell? Were you aware that he was - 10 when they found him - and he was not in the 11 cell that he was assigned to in the 2 MS ae: No. I learned that later on, 3 that -- 4 MR. a: What did you learn? 15 MS. a: -- that he was keyed to one 16 cell, but he was actually living in another 7 cell. So, I don't know where they changed his 8 cell at. 9 MR. a : And is this because the cell 20 rotations that happen in the SHU? 21 MS. FRR: «Right. 22 MR. a: And who would have been 23 responsible to make sure that this, once the 24 cell rotation happened -. 25 MR. a : That’s not the reason. EFTA00127059

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 107 w ~] wo 10 11 So, let’s not go down that path. So, did you learn how that happened? How he was keyed into one, and not in another? MR. a : No? Okay. Did you hear -? Does this refresh your memory at all, like, he was initially placed into one cell, when he came back from suicide watch, around July 30th, but then, the CPAP (Phonetic Sp. *01:16:21) machine didn't actually reach into there, so they had to switch him to another? Ms. BJ: No. MR. a : No? So, you never heard anything about that? Ms. QJ: No. MR. Ee : Okay. Go ahead. MR. a: So -. MR. a : Who would have been esponsible for making those changes in the i] system, to make sure that he’s in the actual cell where he’s supposed to be there? MS. a: Normally, the SHU OIC make the changes. MR. a : So, it wouldn’t be the lieutenant? It would be the OIC? EFTA00127060

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 108 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) MS. a: Yeah. It would be the OIC. MR. a : Okay. And so, would that be -? Is there an OIC for each shift, or is there one overall OIC? MS. a: There is one for each shift. MR. a : Okay. So, on that note, is it more for, like, the morning watch, the day watch, or the evening watch that would be responsible for that change? MS. a: No. Whatever shift he was moved on, that OIC should have made the change. MR. a : Okay. Okay. And at this point, if the change wasn’t made, is there a way for us to know when that occurred? When they actually moved him from one cell to another cell? MS. a: No. The only way you would know is to rely on the cameras to, you know, rewind and see. MR. QJ: vo see, you know -- MS. J: 9 vm-hon. MR. ae : -- when that actually happened. But the cameras weren’t actually working -- EFTA00127061

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 109 1 MR. Ee : -- from 7/29, and this a - 2 happened on 7/30. There’s no way, at this ies) point? w ig c al 10) be oo 5 . er - mo o @, oO c KK oO i=) searches. How often are searches in the SHU? You’ re taking me back-back. ive) Fs) Yeah. 4 MS. a: There is - I want to s I don’t know if it’ A ay they n It was five when I was an t fea) rt J al oO o fe) KR Les] 0 ui) bh bt un ) ul] K a a Oo “i 9 MR. a : Is it of the general area, or yf re sup ed to be Actual cell searches. 23 MR. QJ: §9=aAnd is that five -? a: With the exception of the 24 MS. 25 midnight shift. They usually do the general EFTA00127062

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 110 should have been .) oD wo c ct ct 7 o laf o at least five WwW 0 i] be a un oO uy in] Qa 0 it) o fe) 3 rn o + 7 oO wo FA co a] On day watch -- t c oO BO Oo Pry x wu k i} i} oO oO 3 om w ke a cr i) 2, ] \ 12 MR Day watch and evening -- 13 -- an evening -- watch. t n Fa All right. Well, 16 evening. Evening watch, right? F F fer) J BO Ke ” om n tA ie] b Hh rt a o H i) Q Oo nr 5 Q 22 23 24 on that ap 25 es EFTA00127063

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 MR. Ee : Okay. And would you consider that, like, a policy violation? Ms. BJ: 9 yes. MR. a : If it’s not logged into the system, is it almost as if they never happened? MS. a: Yes. MR. a : Go ahead. MR. a: That’s all I have. I know you looked into the monitor, the phone call that Epstein made the night before, on August 9th, right? And what is your understanding of what transpired? Like, how did he make that phone call? MS. a: My understanding is that his unit manager gave him the phone call. On an unsecured line. He placed Epstein in the shower area - that’s what my understanding - and he plugged the phone into an unsecured line, and gave him a phone call. MR. a: And based on what we - based on the interviews - it looks like Epstein asked to speak to his mother. MS. QJ: 9 Right. MR. a: And he asked for his pack and 111 EFTA00127064

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 112 1 pen (Phonetic Sp. *01:19:33) was not set up. 2 MR. a : Well, let’s ask her. 3 What is your understanding of what happened? 4 MS. ae: That was my understanding, phone call to his mother. 6 MR. a : Have you learned anything since then? 8 MS. a: No. Well, I did learn that Ww ct os w ct Za oO 3 wu a fu 9 his mother was deceased on the 10th. 10 MR. a : And do you know who he 11 actually called? 2 ae: I don’t. I don’t. I 3 actually was present when we did get the 4 number, and it NYPD, guy called the number 5 back, but I don’t know who it was. t oO a He actually dialed the co U Mm-hmm. wo a3 To check to -? Rather 20 than doing a search, he called the number that 21 they -- 22 MS. a: I think he did a search. 23 MR. a : -- okay. 24 MS. a : I think he did a search. And number. No w =a @ 0 ra } bh @ oF ct om oO EFTA00127065

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LIMITED ies) co co OFFICIAL USE 113 MR. Ee : From here? At the MS. a: No. I want to say he might have called from his phone MR. a : He had a cell pho MS. QJ: 9 Yeah. Mm-hmm. I want to say he called from his phone. MR. a : Was this in your MR. Ee : Did they bring their cell MS. a: We had - we got approval for them to bring their phones in, because they was doing an investigation. MR. Ee : Oh, okay. MR. a : And do you know if someone answered when he called? MS. a: I want to MR. QJ: Okay. Did he identify MS. a : I can't remember. EFTA00127066

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LIMITED 1 Oo 95 OFFICIAL understanding You of what him that phone can't 114 remember. And is that the same think? - it nly was or And it’s a. at. Who did unit man who was that? And Nathaniel 1s should | call? EFTA00127067

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 115 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 that process worked? MS. a: If he gave him a phone call, it should have been on a secure line. Meaning, the inmate’s line. Because when it’s on the inmate line, you can listen to the phone call. You know, go back. You can monitor it live. And it should have been recorded in the logbook that he received the phone call to the number he received the phone call to. MR. a : And should have he sat there with him, while the call was being placed? MS. a : Yes. MR. QJ: 411 right. And do you know anything about there not being a logbook in the SHU, for those telephone calls? MS. a: I know it was -. We were looking for logbooks. I can't remember if that book was one of them, to be honest with you, because I collected so many. So, I can't remember if that actual book was missing. MR. a : Okay. And do you know if | actually did monitor the call, and log it? MS. a: I don’t know. EFTA00127068

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 116 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a : You don’t know if he did or not? MS. a: I don’t know. MR. a : Okay. Do you know anything -? Did your investigation reveal anything that transpired during that call? MS. a: No. I don't know. MR. a : No. So, you never found anything more? MS. a: I never found anything more. MR. a : How serious of a violation do you consider it, if the inmate had - in this specific instance - both provided Epstein the phone call, and put him in the G- tier shower, walked away, and not only walked away, but left the unit? And the inmate could then talk by himself. Is that a pretty significant thing, or -? MS. a: It is. Because it was ona - again - it was on an unsecured line. So, you know, you can't get the recording back, even if you an emergency and you needed to step away for a minute, you know, you still can go and listen back to that phone call, to see if anything transpired. EFTA00127069

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 117 w ~] ive) MR. Ee : Sure. And why is it? Is it, like, a potential danger to other inmates in the facility, by being able to provide inmates these unsecured phone calls? MS. a: I would say ye MR. a : So, it’s a security matter? MS. a: It’s a security issue. MR. a : Okay. And what is your opinion on if, when | - Epstein says he’s calling his mother, and Mr. | calls the fa number that he gives him, which we don’t have the number for at the time, there’s no list, and a male answers the phone. And then, he provides Epstein with that call. What is your thoughts on that as an SIS lieutenant? MS. QJ: okay. Can I -? Just rephrase it. He gave him the phone call, anda male answered the phone call. MR. QJ: So, Epstein says, I'm calling my mother. This is the number. He calls the number. Mr. Fs answers the phone. And then provides the phone i] ays a male to Epstein. MS. a : At that point, I wouldn’t EFTA00127070

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 118 1 have provided the phone to Epstein. I would 2 have hung the call up. ies) a Right. So, is that also violation? wu ue) R @ ct + om wu on n @ Q c R bh t w th K it) w x 7 MR. ae: Should he have verified who 8 was on the phone? 9 MS. Yes 10 MR for a nN ive) a) Was there a logbook, at that know. I don’t know. t oO a Is there something called 7 endogen Sp. *01:24:39) inmates? 8 Inmates -- 9 MS Yes 20 MR -- can you -? 21 MR. ae : What does that mean? 22 MR Yeah. What does that mean? 23 MS Endogen is inmates that, you 24 know, don’t have any money on their accounts. 25 ype of resources. No type EFTA00127071

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 119 w ~] of money coming in, through family members, or anything to that effect. MR. a: Now, if an endogen inmate wanted to make a phone call, what is the procedure for that? MS. a: I'm not too sure how unit team deal with endogen inmate. MR. QJ: 9 Okay. MS. a: I'm not too sure. MR. a: Is it - have you ever heard the procedure that, if an inmate doesn't any money in the pack and pen, they can't make any phone calls, the unit team sometimes allows them to make a phone call on the legal line? MS. a: I’ve never heard of that. MR. Ee : Regardless, if an inmate is speaking on the legal line, it’s always supposed to be -- MS. a: A legal -- MS. QJ: 9 -- monitored? MS. a: -- a legal phone call. Yes. MR. ae : Where if it’s in this case, that an inmate that doesn't actually have money, if they do allow it, they have to monitor it. Correct? They have to sit there EFTA00127072

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LIMITED w ~] wo 10 11 OFFICIAL USE 120 and listen to it with them? MS. a: They do, but they shouldn’t allow it because it’s a legal line. MR. a : Okay. So, really, the legal line is only supposed to be -- MS. a: Only for legal. MR. a : -- okay. So, not only was this not done properly, they should have never provided Epstein a call from the legal line, is what you’re saying? MS. QJ: §9Right. MR. a : Okay. MR. a: Is there another line, or, like, a pack and pen set up to utilize for inmates that don’t have any money, that want to make calls? Like, you know how pack and pens are assigned to each inmate. Right? MS. a: Yes. MR. a: Now, if it’s an endogen inmate, and they wanted to make a phone call that’s not legal, is there a special code that the unit team can use? MR. a: And if the captain, if there I don't know. I don't know. was a conversation between the captain and the EFTA00127073

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LIMITED ~] wo 10 11 OFFICIAL USE unit, with (Indiscernible *01:26:22) [J and the captain instructed him to monitor it, 121 and log the call, us. —: standing there, vR. vs. : it in the logbook. ve. a: that? un. : 10th. Right? Epstein’s death? vs. (Eg: got a morning. at home, MR. SE: us. a: emergency. I institution. And You know, it's Epstein need I'm gett what does that mean to you? That mean you should be listening to the phone call. Okay. And you should be recording All right. Anything else on Nope. Now, let’s talk about August did you find out about Mr. Maybe about 6:00 in the call at home. I got a call by the captain called me. Captain a: Captain | called me. Mm-hmm. And he said we have an you to come up to the I said, okay. What happened? ing up now. And he said, okay. What EFTA00127074

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 122 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 happened? You know, with Epstein. And he said, Epstein tried to kill himself. So, I said, okay. I got dressed, and I came up to the institution. It’s not until maybe I was here maybe about 45 minutes, when I learned that he was deceased, and then, everybody said, wait, you didn't know? And I said, no, because I heard tried. So, and I remember saying, did he go to the hospital because try mean, okay, did we take him here? And when I got to there, like, no, he’s in the hospital. Like, he’s deceased, and I was, like, oh. Okay. MR. a : Mm-hmm. So, when -. MR. QJ: Do ~you know if he was alive when the first officer responded to him? MS. a: Oh, I don't know. MR. ae : Do you have anything, any investigative steps that you took reveal anything about that? Like, life-saving measures, like, to keep him alive versus bring him back? MS. a : I don’t know. Just overhearing that they did some CPR measures. But I don’t really know who did what. EFTA00127075

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 123 w ~] MR. a: When you arrived at the facility, around what time was it, approximately? MS. a : Maybe, I know it was before MR. a: And was he already gone, at that point? MS. a: Yes. He was already gone. MR. a: And when you came in, what is the first step you did? MS. a: I just started gathering evidence. You know -? MR. a: Did you go up to the SHU? MS. a: Yes. I went up to the SHU to take whatever logbooks that was up there, and that I could find. I went to the control center to look for the count slips, from the night before, the 9th and the 10th. The warden had took some of the count slips. He beat me to the punch. So, he did give me what he took because it was -. Everybody was just trying to gather up evidence, just -. MR. a: We’re just trying to get a -- MR. J: «on -- MR. a: -—- sorry. EFTA00127076

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 124 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a : -- and on the count slips, did you find anything out about the counts that were conducted, or not conducted, that night? MS. a: On the count slips, I just seen that they were filled out. They were filled out. And I think, I want to say the 10th was missing. Because everybody would run around, looking for the 10th count slip. I can't remember what time. I think the 3:00 and the 5:00, they were looking for. On the count slips. MR. a : When you said they were looking for it, where were they looking for it? MS. In the control center. I see. Because that’s where the & a count slips would be. MR. So, they went to -. And so, the captain, or the warden, went down to the control center, they were looking for the 3:00 a.m. and the 5:00 a.m. count slips, and they couldn’t find them? MS. a: I don’t know who actually went in the control center because it’s my EFTA00127077

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 125 1 understanding they were looking for the count 2 slips before I arrived. So, what -. 3 MR. a : Did you do any vetting of 4 the counts, though, to notice, like, if they 5 count slips matched up with the institutional 6 counts, or anything like that? 7 MS. ae: Did I do any? 8 MR. QJ: Yeah. a : No. I didn’t. 10 MR. a : So, you didn't notice. yu notice any of the count slips having, © n 2 like, any extra writing on them? Like, 9S+1, 3 or 73+1 Or anything like that? 4 MS. a: Hmm. I can't remember. 5 MR. a : So, you don’t remember. 1't remember. b oO nH al Qa fu =] f Lee) 5 a : Do you want to show that? No. I mean, yeah, if you wo 5 want to, if you have it. Sure. 21 MR. ae: We’1ll come back. So, I’1l 22 come back to that. I just had a few questions. 23 So, when you came in, people were already in 24 the SHU, looking for stuff? No w ti U EFTA00127078

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a: Pulling stuff up? MS. a: That, it was only the captain gave me a few things. He was looking for his folder. His 292s and stuff to that effect. So MR. a: That would be Epstein’s folder? MS. a: -- Epstein’s. MR. QJ: 9 okay. MS. a: Right. So, whatever he found with Epstein, he did give it to me. Whatever he found in the SHU. Again, the count slips were in the warden’s office, what they found. So, I did get those from him. MR. a: What is the normal procedure if an inmate dies in prison, or, you know, a suicide happens in prison, what is the normal procedure on the actions to be taken? MR. Ee : Well, prior to we get into that, why were you all looking for the count slips? MS. a : That’s, like, a procedure, what we do, you know, we look at the count slips to make sure - especially with a suicide in SHU - you want to make sure that the count 126 EFTA00127079

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 127 w ~] wo 10 11 ive) was conducted. You’re going to review the cameras and see that the count was conducted. is) You know, it’s just to make sure, basically everybody is accountable, and do what they needed to do. MR. a : And did you do any of that, trying to ensure that those counts were conducted? MS. a: Well, it was no cameras, and I didn't do an investigation, because at that point, once we notify OIG and FBI, we knew that it would be their investigation. So -- MR. QJ: Right. MS. a: -- I did no investigation. MR. a : And do you know if the counts were conducted? MS. a: I don’t know. MR. QJ: okay. MR. QJ: 9 Okay. MR. QJ: So, now the procedures. MR. a: Well, on the same note, then. Did they eventually find the count slips? MS. a: They found -. They did find -. I don’t think the 10th was ever located. It could have been. I can't recall. But I EFTA00127080

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 128 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 know the 10th was the missing count slip. One of them went missing or something to that effect, that, you know, OIG kept calling me, and I'm, like, I'm looking for them, I'm going through everything, I'm going through, you know, we were trying to find. It was something missing. I can't remember the timeframe, but it definitely was something missing, at the time. MR. a: But you didn't say, it eventually was found? MR. a : Okay. And do you know -- MS. BJ: 9 -- I can't remember. MR. a: -- so, when you came in, right after you found out about the incident, did you come right to the SHU? MS. a: Yes. MR. a: Who was in the SHU, at that MS. a: I don’t remember. It was a lot of people. MR. a: When you say a lot of people, MS. a: In and out of the SHU. Like, EFTA00127081

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 129 ~] wo 10 11 administration. Like, the captain, I think, was up there at the time. Or I -- MS. ae: -- I can't even remember what officers was up there, to be honest with you. Who was in the cell, at that s cell. Nobody. Nobody. Was that sealed off? The door was locked. Do you know who locked it? Ms. QJ: 9o= don’t know who locked it. MR. a: Okay. And why was the door locked? MS. a: I don’t know, but I'm assuming somebody locked it because they knew it would be -. You know, we would do an investigation on it. possible crime scene? MR. SE: so no one came in and out? Do you think it was a Right. Okay. And they sealed it up Nobody came in and out. When I got up there, it was locked. We took the EFTA00127082

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 130 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 CPAP machine, and different stuff out of it, we did. And we inventoried it in SIS. MR. a: So, that’s a question. So, when you -. It was locked. Since did someone go in, at that point, to take stuff out? MS. a: No. We didn't go in right then and there. No. We roped it off with the yellow tape. MR. QJ: 9 okay. MS. a: We roped it off with the yellow tape. MR. a: And then, of course, what about the stuff inside the - before we go in this room - what about the stuff in the officer’s desk? Was stuff inventoried out of the desks? Taken stuff, taken out. Like, any Ms. HR: 9 No. MR. a: -- anything related to Epstein. Like, you mentioned that the captain took the folder. Where was that folder -- MS. a : No. MR. a: -- taken? MS. a: We couldn't find -. They couldn't find the folder. EFTA00127083

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 131 1 MR. a: Oh, they couldn’t find the 2 folder? 3 MS. a: They couldn’t find the folder 4 at all. So, whatever paperwork he got was 5 stuff laying around. 6 MR. a: So, he took stuff off the ~] desks, and things like that? 8 MS. a: I'm - yeah - I'm assuming 9 that’s where he got it from. 10 MR. a: Was an inventory made of 11 those stuff that he took out of the SHU? 12 MS. a: Yes. 3 MR. a: Okay. What are the steps - 4 as an SIS lieutenant - did you guys take any 15 materials out of the SHU, as evidence? 16 MS. a: What do you mean? 1? MR. QJ: 9Like, did -- 8 MS. a: Find something? 9 MR. a: -- any paperwork related to 20 Epstein, things like that, did you guys 21 inventory anything? 22 MS. a: Everything related to him. 23 Yeah. Because we brought it down to SIS. We 24 turned it over to OIG. 25 MR. QJ: «Okay. So, the -- EFTA00127084

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 132 w ~] MS. a: And we inventoried it. MR. a: -- inventory was done by you, not the FBI? MS. a : No. It was done by me. They signed off on it, well, as I was handing it to them. I had everything on an inventory list, of course. So, they were double checking what I was giving them, and they signed off on the chain of custody. MR. a: And that morning, the round sheets, where did you find the round sheets? MS. a: So, someone gave me the round MR. a: So, it was not -? It wasn’t in the SHU? MS. J: No. MR. a: Okay. And Epstein paper. You said you took anything Epstein related, right? In paperwork. MS. EJ: Right. MR. QJ: 9=and, like, what kind of paperwork did you take? MS. a: Oof. I think I got, like, one or two 292s. I may have. Whatever it was, was very little. EFTA00127085

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 133 1 MR. a: Do you recall taking this 2 (Indiscernible *01:35:41) mandatory -? It says ies) mandatory rounds must be conducted every 30 4 minutes on Epstein. Ww oO Not, I’ve never even seen 7 MR. ae: So, you’ve never seen that? 8 MS. BR: No. wo F MR. a : Okay. And do you recall i=) signs being up in the SHU, regarding Epstein? a: No. I don’t recall. Him needing a cellmate, and N Fs) 3 your rounds being -. So, you don’t recall this 4 in there, either? 5 MS. a: No. I’ve never seen that t oO n h- Q o 7 MR. a: Do you know who collected oo ct Ss u rt ion wu o kK Q J wu 5 ie] o 9 MS. QJ: =No. I don’t. 21 MR. ae : Was it the captain that 22 went in and collected a lot of this stuff? Is 23 the one that -? 24 MS. a : He did, but -- And was he the one -- No w bd EFTA00127086

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 134 MS. a: -- that was never -- MR. a : -- that provided -? He provided you with some of this stuff, though, like, the 292s that you’re talking about? Fs) And what is that? Is that, like, the feeding -- MS. a: The feeding. -- and the MS. a: The showers. Yes. Fa) But you don’t recall this? a: MS. a: I’ve never seen that. ma and things like that, is there any special lists in the SHU for that? MS. a : It should have been a hot list. What we call a hot list, that ps would have put up tt re. Do you recall if there was one in the SHU, at that point? MS. a: I don’t know. MS. ae: I don't know. EFTA00127087

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE MR. a: And if there would it have been kept? MS. ae : I would thin been posted somewhere near the MR. QJ: «okay. And what about the now, let’s go to his cell - wh of his cell? SIS tech which he had. I think some And the CPAP machine was in th k it would officer’ o inventor went in, a was, like, pill bottl ere. MS. a: Yeah MR. a : Did you assi name? ia. And first name is Americ MS. America. Yes. ied nd EFTA00127088

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 136 Ameri th ioe) MR. -- America, our country? when - 8 9 MR walked in -. 1 You ioe) Like, what did you oO cell. It was just more, linen sheets, c @ 77 wu A ct ae oO KR 0] S ) ) i) fa n a oO | | 23 MR. a : Did you inventory t! No. I didn't. 24 MS. 25 MR. a : Do you know around EFTA00127089

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 137 many linens and sheets were in there? though, MS. QJ: 9 For Special Housing. -- right. rt Ph oO i] | | ould have been in there? | : I would MR. fF : Do you know why that more than MR. t the pill bottles? All those pill bottles, and you said you saw medication, things like that. MS. a: I don’t remember if they w empty, or if medication was in them. I know we uy) re a MR. a : -- let me show you pictures. m7 Sorry about that. EFTA00127090

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oO io ioe) oO oo MR. EE: Sho Do you know? < the pictu MS. fw BR D MR. a : So, what I'm showing you the pictures taken inside the S re) is cr ct a om I That’s it. When a : MR. a : Yes. MR. EFTA00127091

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 wo its] Oh. Ww N BO No, no, no. 7 So, is this from the outside wi oO fh a p. n ie] oO bh ~ ~ the second picture? 7 7 8 MS. a: This is the outside. ma oO a So, what is this wire coming i=) up? Is that PAP machine? 11 a: Yes. 2 MR ae: Okay. And you said you 3 removed it from the cell? 4 MS. a: Yeah. We took the 5 machine. 16 MR. ae: Okay. And the CPAP machine 7 only extends to right there? 8 MS. a : I can't remember where it was wo + 0 QO wu ct oO on wu ct H u c wo ist know she went, you know, 23 machine and that cord specifically - was there 24 any indication that he may have used that to 25 strangle, to attempt to harm himself, or EFTA00127092

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 140 1 someone else attempt to harm him? 2 MS. a: No. Just the, like, the - t the CPAP machine with the cord. ies) m jus like, disheveled, or out of place? Was it w 6 straight from the machine, all the way to where 7 it was plugged in? 8 MS. a: I can't remember. MR. a : Okay. But there was nothing -- wo i=) MR. a : -- that indicated that he was strangled by anything other than the noose nN ive) 4 that they found in there? t oO a Nothing indicated that the CPAP machine or cord was used? co U No. Hmm-mm. wo a3 No. Okay. 20 MR. QJ: 9owhat happened to the CPAP 21 machine? 22 MS. a: It’s in the SIS shop. In the 23 inventory. 24 MR. QJ: 90h, it’s still there? 25 MS. ae: It should be still there. EFTA00127093

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE while. 7) I’ve been going for a But yes Okay. But that was K oO 17) MR -- evidence? Okay. we've seen a lot of the orange. What i Is that sheets? that where don’t know. Do you know know. Okay. So, don’t know. I don' You don’t know. Epstein if rt 141 taken as slept? that’s this might know. Okay. EFTA00127094

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 142 1 MR. a: Now, this picture - sorry, I 2 had to flip it a couple of times - it looks ie] 3 like it’s from the corner -- 5 MR. a: -- looking into the cell. 6 What are these things that’s tied up on? a : This, and like these? ~] ic th 8 MR a: Yeah. Is that just to hang 9 clothes 10 MS. a: They’re clothes lines. They 11 use them normally. Mm-hmm. 2 MR. a : Well, what about this? 3 MS. a: I don't know. 4 MR. a: So, there’s a ladder here 15 that goes up to the second floor. 16 MS. QJ: 9 Right. 7 MR. a: Okay. And it looks like 8 there’s a whole bunch of items on top. And 9 between the materials that’s on the floor, and 20 the materials on the bed, you said there was an 21 excessive amount of linen and -- 22 MS. a: Linen. 23 MR. a: -- linen. Okay. 24 MR. a : Who would be responsible 25 for providing a linen, or removing a linen? EFTA00127095

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LIMITED ies) co co OFFICIAL USE 143 MS. a: That would be the SHU } 3 rt + i] SHU? And was that at all questioned, like, hey, why was there someone’s linen in there? MS. a : I don’t. I didn't question I don’t know And if the cell being conducted, would that be the time that they would actually Take everything. MR. ae: So, what are we looking at, (Phonetic Sp. EFTA00127096

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LIMITED ies) w co ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE MS. noose, but, you to me. it, is this on you know if thi actually -- 144 't want to 3) I don ay the word know, that’s what it looks like Okay. And where exactly on the floor? Is that on the t know from the angle. t you know s was the noose that was I don't know. I don't know. MR. ae : Do you know if there were seeing. No. I I don't know. I don't recall don’t recall. No. EFTA00127097

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 145 1 saw it there? 2 MS. a: It’s been a while. I’ve been out of work for some time. ies) 5 MR. a : What is your 6 understanding of how the noose -? How they got 7 Epstein down? Do you know if it was ripped, or 8 if it was cut? Or do you know anything about 9 that? 10 MS. a: I don't know. Nobody never 11 said. 2 MR. a : Okay. So, you never Wa b is) 2) @ Q i] rt c rt 4 MR. a: Because no one said it to you? 16 MS. QJ: 9 Right. 7 MR. QJ: 9 Okay. 8 MR. a : But not when you were w 9 collecting this evidence, though, wasn’t 20 clearly, you know? Do you know if anything was 21 still hanging from where he was hung from, or 22 do you know if it was taken off of him after 23 they -? 24 MS. a : I don't know. 25 MR. a : You don’t know. And who EFTA00127098

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LIMITED ies) co co OFFICIAL USE 146 would be the person to talk to about that? The responders. Like, the first This is a -- is that another mattress? Yeah. It look like it. Mm U | I | | : | I 1 Ae 3 im ct + H i) a) tT So, there is two mattre each other? r?) ] + Oo uel o hh Mm-hmm. Al (@) Okay. Let’s go back (Indiscernible *01:43:26). Another mattress on EFTA00127099

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 147 w ~] wo 10 11 here. Right? MS | No. That’s only one. MR. a: Oh, that’s the -- MS. QJ: 9 Again -- MR. a: -- bottom one here. Okay. MS. | -- I don’t know who took the pictures. I know she took a set of pictures, and then when the FBI came in, they were searching the cell, and they took a set of pictures. So, I really don’t know whose pictures those are. MR. BR: = just one mattress? 7) that two mattresses, or : It looks like one. m7 MR. a: One. Okay. But so, I ct Zs Oo i= Q a rt ct ian t i) ue) Q ct ure taken, another mattress MS. a: Right. This look like two. Of course, well, it is two. So, I don't know. MR. QJ: 9 And look at this pill bottles. There’s different medications sitting on the top bunk? MS. a: Yeah. MR. a : Are those things allowed in EFTA00127100

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LIMITED ies) w co ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE 148 medical comes SHU, medical medication? MS. ae: They normally do, do a pill line daily. I don’t know why he had -. MR. Well, it’s dependent on the medication. is. Lal t Correct? Some -- K wu > -- some medication can be MR. ae : -- through self-care. 5 Lat ae i} wn w re) 3 m 7 0 © a fo to be provided Fs) ho 3 Q ct 7 fu ct it) rt a 0) ‘os bp ie] rt K o Oo Fh ct 7 oO noose. Something you guys took, or -? MS. EFTA00127101

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 149 MR. a : Do you know if this is that we looked in MS. QJ: =Not that. I don't know. MR. a: It looks like that. There’s the right. And we’ve got a picture of bed. With all the linen on it. Okay. MR. a: And that’s all that was on the t MR. a: Did you -. MR. a : You didn't take these yrrect? EFTA00127102

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 150 2 the one who took these pictures? MS. ae : I don’t know if these are her 4 set of pictures because the FBI took pictures, ies) w So, I don't know -- J ih | | b Fh le Oo & 7 w o 7 ) Kn wn is) K oO a H Oo a w o Fh oO K o ct fey 0 my w Hh got in, was ything moved in the cell? Ww nN GO ~ Oo i it) ke 4 the kind of overall picture, and this is where 5 it kind of, loo like there oO definitely an excessive amount of linens. Correct? fos) 7) I | Oo 5 ct a i) 7] @ ue] Pp aQ ct Gc KK 1) o he! i) ie) MR. ae : -- amount of linen? And that would be a No Nm No Ww 5 i] r } 7) rt a i] rt K oO wu 7) ie) =) ct .) ny] rt EFTA00127103

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 151 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) known, you know, and to start fires. Suicide inmates, that’s excessive for them. Definitely. MR. ae: So, inmates that came off of suicide watch, or is, like, an observation, they shouldn’t have -? MS. a : No. They shouldn't have that much linen. MR. a : Okay. You would - I know you’ve been speaking - but you don’t know where exactly he hung himself, or where the body was found, or anything like that? MS. a: No. I don't know. MR. ae : Do you know if - for instance, this, this looks like potentially where he hung himself around - do you know if this was placed back up there, or if that remained there, undisturbed? MS. a : I don't know. MR. QJ: | You don't know. Okay. So, where is fF now? MS. a: I'm assuming she’s here. MR. a : Okay. So, she still works here? Ms. QJ: ves. oh -- EFTA00127104

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 152 Oo w oO oo — MS. : -- MR. a : And she’s still an -- MS. ae: Mm-hmm. No problem. involvement with investigation? h Was sh o ) o r prior to No. don't know if she was here. EFTA00127105

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 1 you immediately say, go take photographs, or what did you tell her to do? MS. ae : We went up to do the photo -. We went up to tape the door up. I don’t remember at what point she took MR. a : But it wasn’t that day? MS. a: No. I don’t think she went e it was blocked off. So, n } 3 in P- on oO | w ecaus U nobody went inside that day. We just took the angle you see of the door. Just so we could show that we taped it off. day? did not go in MR. : Was there video taken, or ‘ us. o is) rt MS. ae: I don't know. We didn't take ow ios) EFTA00127106

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 154 2 MR. a: Okay. Nothing? Oh, no. Okay. It sounds ies) a le 4 like the FBI is the people to talk about, with 5 the - as far as who went in there first, to -- ae: Yeah. TI! 7 MR. a : -- to take pic -- we just escorted them up. oO went in -- co oH 9 I escorted them up there, and -. 10 MR. a : Do you know if anything - 11 after they removed Epstein’s body from the cell 2 - do you know if they anybody went back into 3 that cell? 4 MS. a: I don't know. MR. a : You don't know? MS. ae: I don’t know. 7 MR. ae : Prior to the FBI going in? w oO co oO MS. a : Yeah. 20 MR. QJ: §9owhen Epstein was brought up 21 to the hospital, do you know what he was 22 wearing? Do you know if there was an inventory 23 stuff on the -? You know, the clothes that was 24 on him. What happened to the stuff that was 25 inventoried? EFTA00127107

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 155 1 MS. a: I don't know. 2 MR. a: Was anything brought back? 3 MS. ae : No. Nothing was brought 4 back. But the disk with the pictures they took 5 out there. 6 MR. ae: Do you know, did you hear of 7 when R&D, was any R&D officers sent to the 8 hospital? 9 MS. a : I don't know if the officers 10 was there. The supervisor, Mr. | 11 (Phonetic Sp. *01:48:57) went out to the 2 hospital. 3 MR. a: And when they go out ona 4 situation like this, do they go to the hospital 15 with anything with them? Like cameras. 16 MS. ae: Yeah. You took the pictures. 7 And he - I think he did the fingerprints. 8 MR. a : So, he did take pictures? 9 MS. a : Yes. 20 MR. QJ: §=t’s on a camera provided by 21 MCC? 22 MS. a: Yes. 23 MR. a: And he took fingerprints 24 also? 25 MS. QJ: 91 think he did fingerprints EFTA00127108

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 156 he also take a video, ies) w you know where those foe) "a it) H n ct a it) ct wu oa ° ct Dy iO) a] wo i=) 2 MR. a : -- to make it a little less, and then we’ll send in an email out. ive) t oO a 8 Oh, it’s (Indiscernible *01:49:39) I was - 9 Because I had a binder, I was - I'm 20 just trying to brainstorm, see if I could get 21 it to you guys while you’re here. That’s what 23 MR. GJ: Is is] rt here a reason why | 24 - sorry - that | went to the hospital, 25 took pictures on his personal phone, and texted EFTA00127109

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 15 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 ~J] that over to the AW? MS. a: I didn't even know he went to the hospital. This is the first I'm hearing he went to the hospital. MR. a: He said he was under the impression that the R&D did come in with the camera, but they left without taking any pictures, and they took the camera with them. MS. a: I don't know why he was under the impression because he brought the camera back, and I downloaded the pictures off of it. MR. a: Is there any policy about just anyone, you know, C.O.s, any BOP employees taking pictures on their personal phone, for suicide, or anyone like that? MS. a: You shouldn’t be taking any. MR. a: Are you familiar -- MS. a: Any pictures. MR. a: -- if there’s any policy like MS. a: I don’t know if it’s a policy. I don’t know. MR. a: But as far as you know, you never got those pictures? MS. QJ: «From mr. EFTA00127110

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LIMITED ~] wo 10 11 OFFICIAL USE 1 uw o MR. a: Yeah. MS. EJ: No. MR. a: Okay. Do you have any questions in regards to that topic? MR. QR: 9 Nope. MR. a: Have you heard - did you hear anything about doors in the SHU being left unlocked? MR. a: Was there ever any iss about C.0O.s possibly leaving the SHU doors i) Cc oO fr) unlocked, the tiers doors unlocked, so it’s easier to walk in and out? MS. a: I don’t know. MR. a: Okay. What about cell doors? Did you ever hear any rumors about possibly that cell doors in Epstein’s tier was left unlocked? MS. a: No. I never heard it. MR. MJ: what is your understanding of how Epstein -? Of what happened with Epstein? MS. a: My understanding was, they found him, I guess sitting on the floor, with a if] rope around his neck. And I don’t know who EFTA00127111

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 1 w ite) went in the cell first. But I did hear was Mr. a. Ms. i. I heard Lieutenant a. and I don’t remember who it was from medical. MR. a : As far as when he was found, though, was it your understanding that he did whatever happened to him, to himself? MS. ae: That’s what my understanding was. MR. a : Do you have any information at all that would suggest that ein did not harm himself, and that someone MR. QR: «Xo. MR. a: Did he have any threats from other inmates? MS. a: I don’t know. MR. a : Okay. Anything else? MR. J: Nope. you ever interact with MS. a: When I did the first suicide attempt, allegedly. MR. a : After that. Have there been any interaction EFTA00127112

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 160 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MS. a: No interaction. I just seen him in attorney area because he did his attorney visits pretty much all day. So, if I would walk by and see him, I will step in and ask him was he okay. Normally, he will just give the thumbs up, and you know, I will walk away. But if I see him, I definitely will ask. You know, you okay, anything you need? And he will just throw the thumbs up. MR. a: Was he given any special privileges here at the MCC? MS. Not that I know of. MR. Being that -. What is your understanding about him having attorney conference every day? Did you know that he was in attorney conference pretty much every day, from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m.? MS. Yes. MR. Was that something that was afforded to other inmates? MS. a: I’ve seen it done before. MR. a : Okay. MS. a: Yes. MR. a: So, it’s happened in the past? EFTA00127113

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] wo 10 11 MS. a: Yes. MR. a: Okay. So, it’s not just Okay. Do you know which other inmates? MR. SJ: vo. un. SE: MR. a : So, these are - when were talking about count slips previously We don’t need t Okay. I don't know. this is what I was talking about. So, do see, all these other counts, this was the p-m. count on August 93th. All these other count slips have crosses all over them. They’ re checking, you know, say, from our 7) understanding, it says as one, d ft things in, they check them off. MR. QJ: Well, these two that is from R&D, and one is from the SHU, one) Mm-hmm. don’t have the check marks coming off of; two) they ZA one, which is the SHU, says And the R&D says 9S+1. Do you know anythi Oo -. I got nothing else on the -. we you 10:00 one they and 73+1. ng EFTA00127114

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 162 1 MS. a: No. I don't know what the 2 plus one stands for. ies) a No. Do you know anything 4 about, like, ghost counting, or anything of w that nature? a: I’ve heard them ghost count 7 before. If an inmate was in medical during a oO a Would they put, like -- i=) -- a plus one on the slip nN I hh ct on o i y’re ghost counting? a: I’ve never seen. I’ve never 4 seen a plus one, when I’ve taken a count. be honest with you. I’v ive) a t a 77) 4 Oo oO Lee) 5 And when you said that 9 you were handling the count slips, or 20 collecting them, did you remember seeing 21 anything like that, with the NS+1l, or the -? 22 MS. a: I don’t remember. 23 MR. a : You don’t remember? 24 MS. a : I don't remember. EFTA00127115

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 163 1 you, that WwW 5 a w 4 MS. ae: Yes. I would have sent this count slip back because plus one -- 6 MR. QJ: or it -- ae: -- doesn't tell me -. 8 MR. a : -- it may have been the w 9 people that were doing the count, that wrote 10 it, is actually where the thought is. a: Oh, I don't know. But you don’t know. N Fs ive) H I’ve never seen a plus one. 5 MR. a: In terms of, if there is is there, during training, t fea) ue] i) rt) o B on ar Ke w ri) c ma Q Q i) fl are C.O.s taught what actions to take if they 8 think that there’s a possible suicide attempt 9 in a cell? 20 MS. Yes. a: 21 MR. ae: What is the training? a: 22 MS. et suicide prevention i.) QQ 23 training yearly, during annual refresher 24 training, the psychology conduct mock Zo exercises. EFTA00127116

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 164 w ~] wo 10 11 MR. a: And what do they teach you? Like, if you see something. If you see possible suicide. What is the C.O. supposed to do? MS. a: First, you’re going to yell for help, or for a supervisor, but when you have another staff member with you, you could open the door and attempt to free that person, if - for instance - if it’s a noose or something to that effect. MR. a: They don’t have to wait for other C.0.s to respond? MS. a: Well, it is recommended that you have somebody with you. MS. a: It is recommended that you have somebody with you. MR. a : Recommended, not required? MS. QJ: 3931 don’t think it’s required. MR. a : Is there part of the security part where it could be a rouse to get you in, and then they could overthrow you? MS. a: Absolutely. Absolutely. MR. a: So, is that why -? So, EFTA00127117

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LIMITED w ~] wo 10 11 OFFICIAL USE 1 is) w our understanding was that it was actually fw requirement that you’re not supposed to go in - MS. a : By yourself. MR. a : -- by yourself. MS. a: Just in case there is a fake attempt or something to get in you. MR. a: Anything else? MR. QM: Nope. MR. a: I got nothing else in my line of questioning. MR. a : Great. Yeah, no. So, there is no, nothing for you to believe that Epstein did anything other than take his own MS. J: No. MR. QM: Okay. And then, that these other things were just systematic failures. What d o you think overall led to Epstein being able to take his own life? MS. a: I want to say the systematic failures, the breakdown with, you know, although we don’t know the previous attempt, we don’t know the logistics, right? So, if we know we had this inmate, we should have been EFTA00127118

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LIMITED ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) OFFICIAL USE 1 ) oO watching him a little bit better, I think. MR. a : So, do you think the main reasons would be, if counts and rounds weren’t being conducted, would that be a big factor into why he was able to kill himself? MS. ae: Yes. I would say so, because if you know nobody is walking around. MR. a : What about the fact that he didn't have a cellmate, and he was supposed to have a cellmate? MS. a: That, as well. MR. a : Do you think one of them is more important than the other? Or do they go hand in hand? MS. a: I think they go hand in hand. MR. Ee : Okay. So, they’re both equally -- MS. a : Yes. MR. Ee : -- as important. Is there anything else, aside from those two main w tf issues, that you think led to Epstein’s death? MS. a: I really can't say. I don't MR. a : Okay. Anything that we didn't ask you, that we should know about? EFTA00127119

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 167 nH No. You guys pretty much - Yeah. 5 MS. | | 3 = Q 3 wu a ts 1) io! | | I know we -- MR. ie) MS. | | oO everything. we covered a lot. 5 ! ! i 0 I a thank you for taking 7 o + HH 3 o ct oO talk to us today. a K o i) wu ih o tre] K fe} ion h 0 =} MR. a : -- her initial? MR. MR. thing that, we just - so that we know we talked, that all these have to get attached to the recording. If yuld just initial. For instance, this pack. Just initial the t MR. ae : -- so you don’t have to go through none of them. But the things t u don’t mind just -- EFTA00127120

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 168 Ww wo Ww oO oo -- initialing and dating. 5 =] 5] ion ct oO o iat] 3) on i] ct 0) b 1) | i = - o H Hh o 1) bh fr) ue] i) 0 pe fu ~ H Q s) ct wu fe) 5 Q MR. : Oh. There goes that. I just © Fa uy T 7 © ia © had the iy K re} oe ee H fw is Oo bee oO Q B N Mo MS. MR. MS. And it goes government pens. 5 a] Ae] 2 t+ I Be Q o be an oO No. (Indiscernible *01:59:01). (Indiscernible *01:59:15). y.- Thank you much. No problem. th K Oo wu J of it? The MR. EFTA00127121

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 169 1 I think I’ve ever seen. It’s like calligraphy. 2 MS. a: Oh, really? I thought it 3 was, like, chicken scratch and all over the 4 place. 5 MR. a : No. And once I saw it, I 6 was, like, wow. That is pretty impressive. 7 MS. a : Okay. 8 MR. a : Okay. You want to end 9 it Yeah. So, we’ve going to end t i=) a = :1 wo 11 the interview. The time is 1 a.m. on 2 September 23rd, 2021. This i 3 ae I'm ending the interview. 7] Special Agent EFTA00127122

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 170 1 CERTIFICATE 2 I hereby certify that the foregoing pages 3 represent an accurate transcript of the 4 electronic sound recording of the proceedings 5 before the Department of Justice, Office of the 6 Inspector General in the matter of: 8 Interview of [xy 10 : 11 Brcaren (ose COCO 12 Brianna Rose Burton, Transcriber 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EFTA00127123