10 11 12 DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL JUNE 15, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Hills, CA 91301 EFTA00126362

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 APPEARANC ies) OR GENERAL co WITN te) ive) co EFTA00126363

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. Ee : All right. The recorder on. Today is Tuesday, June 15, 2021, and the time is 10:08 - My name is | 4 a. and I am a Senior Special Agent ios) i) ' 7) ies) 5 with the U.S. Department of Justice Office of 6 the Inspector General, New York Field Office. 7 And these are my credentials. 8 MR. QJ: 9 Okay. 9 MR a : This interview with 10 Federal Bureau of Prisons employee - let me see 11 - is it Jermaine? 2 MR. BJ: 9 ves. 4 conducted as part of an official U.S. 15 Department of Justice Office of the Inspector 16 General investigation. Today’s date is - again 7 - June 15, 2021. interview is being 8 conducted at the West Side - within the West 9 Side Administrative Building, second floor 20 conference room, FCI Fort Dix, New Jersey. 21 Also present is DOJ OIG Special Agent | 22 | and Mr. a. This interview will be 23 recorded by me, Senior Special Agent P| 24 a . Could everyone please identify 25 themselves for the record, and spell their last EFTA00126364

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LIMITED w oO fos) wo i=) ive) co 23 OFFICIAL USE 4 name? To start, again, I am DOJ OIG Senior MR. a : All right. Thank you investigation surrounding the circumstances of Jeffrey Epstein’s death, and you are being de answers to our asked to voluntarily prov qu o stions. Will you agree to a voluntary interview with the DOJ OIG? MR. a: Yes. MR. Ee : Great. We’re just going to review the DOJ OIG voluntary interview form. | | going to read it for the record. It says, the Inspector General Warnings and urances to Provide Information on “You are being asked to provide information as part of an investigation being conducted by the Office of the Inspector General. This investigation is being conducted EFTA00126365

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended. This investigation pertains to job performance failure and security failure. This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not have to answer questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you choose not to answer questions. Any statements you furnished may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceedings, or Agency disciplinary proceedings, or both.” And there is a waiver. It says, "I understand the Warnings and Assurances stated above and I am willing to make a statement and answer questions. No promises or threats have been made to me, and no pressure or coercion of any kind has been used against me.” You can take a look at that, if you would like, and if you agree, you can sign where it says Employee’s Signature. MR. FJ: «9 (indiscernible *00:02:57) copy of this. MR. a : This isn't what I wanted. Do you need it? Thank you, sir, for signing. I am going to sign as the signature of the Office of the Inspector General Special Agent. And I am going to print my name. Mr. a. do you EFTA00126366

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 6 mind just printing your name where it says Employee’s Name? Sorry. mR. QJ: «11 right. MR. ae: Right below it. hold onto that? And do you understand the OIG MR. ae : Great. Before starting, would like you place you under oath. Can you just raise your right hand? Mr. a. do you swear to tell the truth and nothing but the interview? MR. Ee : Thank you, sir. Can you just show me your credentials, for the record, MR. a: Here you go, sir. MR. a : -- all right. For the record, I am looking at the U. . Department of EFTA00126367

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LIMITED oO OFFICIAL Just credentials the Jersey. And it has a picture of him. And what is current home MR. Po : And wh d where did you go to ctually Northwestern State EFTA00126368

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE co Natchitoches, And what was that Social Great. And I believe it MR. a : Great. Thanks. Did you 7 employment prior to the Colorado Department of was have had worked years, 11 months in Awesome. Thanks for your Mm-hmm. MR. ae : When did you work as a Correctional Officer for two years? MR. a: In Colorado? MR. a : Yes MR. ae: I believe the from EFTA00126369

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 9 July of 2004 to November 27 or November 26 of MR. a : Okay. Great. And then, And what was your rank in MR. a : I was a Se your primary responsibility? MR. a: When you left, what was Basically, at that time, I rgeant, as a pographical MR. ae : Okay. And what was that? It’s a topographical surveyor MR. a : Oh, a surveyor. MR. a : -- (Indiscernible *00:07:19) EFTA00126370

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE uw ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 MR. Ee : Okay. Perfect. And then, you said a Sergeant. E-4, E-5? ver. QJ: so E-5. MR. QJ: ©-5. 0 All right. When was your Enter on Duty date with the Bureau of Prisons? MR. QJ: §9009/27/2005. No. [J sorry. 11/27/2005. MR. a : Great. And when did you graduate from BOP training down at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center? MR. a: I believe it was March of 2006. MR. QM: Okay. We don’t have to go through it. Or I guess, just briefly, I mean, what positions have you held with the BOP? You don’t have to go into each institution. Just, like -. MR. a: Right. I started as a five, step one. I’ve - with more responsibility - was promoted to through six, seven, Senior Officer Specialist. I was also a GL-9 Lieutenant. A GL-11 Lieutenant. I was the Deputy Captain, GL-12. And I was also a GL-13. And currently, I am at the GL-12 Discipline 10 EFTA00126371

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 11 Hearing Officer at FCI Fort Dix. it correct that you used to work at the MCC All right. Great. And if] in New York City? MR. a : All right. And what were your positions when you were at the MC MR. a: Mcc, I was the Captain. MR. a : Okay. And from what dates were you the Captain? MR. a: I was the Captain from September of, I believe it was third, 2018, all the way until June 25 of 2020 ssignment as a Captain was - I wu Brooklyn. promoted, And then Okay. you got and went to MCC? Yes. Yes. And what does the MCC EFTA00126372

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LIMITED No No No ies) w co ive) co wo ion) OFFICIAL USE stand for? MR. a: The Metropo k, New Y is cor Thank Captain, who consid you were at the MCC? It would be transiti Okay. would However, we when that incident happened. | | was the AW over Cus talkin are about that about August 9th and August 1 Perfect. e, W All right. litan Corre And located at ork? rect. you, sir. Asa er your , at that point, oning. , normally, I hich would be the was at that time. transitioning are you talking EFTA00126373

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LIMITED ies) w co co OFFICIAL USE 13 sibility had MR. a : -- to this incident. So, even though hers responsibilities had ch as the AW over Custody, and Warden is] a had appointed - or instructed - that Ms. || would then take over the responsibilities. But how However, again, the previous asked, normally, as my onsibilities, I would notify the AW EFTA00126374

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LIMITED w ~] wo 10 11 ive) OFFICIAL USE 14 Custody, and also, I would have conversations the Warden. MR. a : Okay. MR. a : So, it would just depends on what the situation may be. So, if there was instances where I would run things through the chain, from the AW to the Warden, and there was times that I would take direction directly from the Warden. MR. a : Okay. As far as, though, is instance, if, you know, being that a int ] t 9th and August 10th, I believe that the is] Augu first person you contacted when you were -- MR. a : -- correct. And that was because the other AW was out. Is that what you were saying? MR. a: My belief is that she was on annual leave, which was stated -- MR. QM: Okay. MR. a: -- that we had closed out on that Friday, that she would be starting annual MR. a : Okay. But the other AW was, in fact, your Supervisor at that time? EFTA00126375

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 15 ] 2 MR. a : Okay. Which you just 4 because she was on? 5 6 re 7 s that not 8 9 MR. a : Well, what I realized is had occurred, AW | | ch time 0 that, once the 1 responded to institution, at 2 annual leave, I believe she cancelled her and she assumed her position WwW a] ] 5 oc k be 0) w o oO Lee) 5 , o to 20 MR. Ee : Perfect. Thank you. All 23 OIG back when this instance occurred in August 24 25 That is correct. EFTA00126376

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co No N N ion) OFFICIAL USE 1 C Great. | | just going to report that was written in response with to their conversations you. Mm-hmm. for accuracy, as over well as to fill in gaps that we’ve found, that we just clarification on. Absolutely. tu stop me if there is anything So, || just going to that you find that is inaccurate. Correct. began his career with the in Florence, ” Colorado in 2005. Correct. “In 2014, he was transferred to the Metropolitan Detention fatal Center, MDC, in Brooklyn, to Captain at MCC, where he over -”. Or his current po tion, sorry. MR. a: Yeah. There’s a in between there. EFTA00126377

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 17 ies) Brooklyn.” I missed this line. It says, z 4 “Where he was made Deputy Captain in 2015. In 5 2018, P| was promoted to Captain at MCC, 6 his current position, where he oversees security for the entire building.” 8 MR. a: Well, yeah. There was a 9 little bit missing there because, yeah, I 10 entered on duty, and I started my career in 11 Florence. However, I left Florence in 2009 2 And that’s when I went to a. Fcc ive) 5 MR. QJ: and then, from Fcc J, I was there to 2014. And then, from r oy kh K Oo 3 No oO ° wo 7 ‘14, I left QJ to go to MDC Brooklyn. And 8 then, in '18, that’s when I assumed duties at 20 MR. QJ: Okay. So, they have - 21 yes - so, I guess you were transferred to the 22 MDC in Brooklyn, 2014, and in 2015 was when you 23 were promoted to Deputy Captain? No No wi bs BOP 4 oe o wu ct - wo a fw 103) he . is] 2) BK H 5 ct o a n ct wu ket un EFTA00126378

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 18 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 directly supervises approximately 13 Lieutenants.” Does that compromise of all the Lieutenants? This was at the time. Was that all the Lieutenants at the MCC? MR. a: Correct. MR. a : Okay. “And it has approximately 125 to 135 line staff/Correctional Officers under his purview.” MR. a: Mm-hmm. Yes. Well, you know, when they say that, what they understand is, is that, under Correctional Services, that was probably the amount of staff that was - again - in Correctional Services, as subordinate staff. However, my direct supervision would have been over just the 13 Lieutenants. MR. ee: Okay. There are 13 - oh, 13 Lieutenants. Right. I thought you were saying GS-13. Gotcha. yo also sits on the Institution’s Executive Staff, which also includes the Warden. | primary duty is to ensure that security protocols are met by his Lieutenants and sub-staff, and that policy guidelines are being followed, as set forth by the BOP.” EFTA00126379

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] MR. a: Correct. responsible for the following: Special Housing Unit Lieutenant, Lieutenant ia.’ Is that correct? MR. a: Correct. MR. a : “As an Administrative Lieutenant, responsible for maintaining paperwork, et cetera.” So, when you say an Administrative Lieutenant here, are you saying whoever was Acting in the Administrative Lieutenant -- MR. a: Capacity? MR. QJ: | -- position? MR. a: No, I wasn’t. Basically, Administrative duties. The Administrative duties falls under the appointed SHU Lieutenant. The SHU Lieutenant, the appointed SHU Lieutenant has certain duties that have to be done daily, within the unit. Not just the supervision of the line staff that work the unit, but also over all on running of the Unit. Meaning, that ensuring that all paperwork is done. EFTA00126380

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LIMITED No No No ies) w co ive) co wo ion) OFFICIAL USE MR. a: All security protocols are followed. To ensure that inmates - or run rosters - to ensure that s are placed in or in proper cells. To they have proper the inmates in the unit. MR. a : So, I guess what I was getting at is, like, how the SHU Lieutenant was that was the Administrative Lieutenant? Lieutenant at that time was ee. MR. ae : And do how to i) - The Administrative v u happen to know ll that last name? MR. ae : Thank you, sir. “An SIS rwork.” Lieutenant resp was that? wa EFTA00126381

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE Activities Lieutenants”. MR. a: Which are on the day of the incident? MR. a : Yeah. And would to see the di roster for August 9th and August 10th? Do you know MR. a: So, I believe the morn watch Lieutenant, wt g was Lieutenant - what is her damn name? - I said her name. us i] nu rt MR. MR. Ee : So, || showing you a duty Agent roster from - or daily assignment H can show you this. wo roster - from Friday, August as one from Saturday, August 10 -- MR. EJ: $9 Right. that incident occurred, , 2019, as well MR. a : And you can keep them in front of you for the -- oO tall iT) ke EFTA00126382

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LIMITED ioe) w oO io ioe) 19 20 No Wa OFFICIAL USE 22 MR. Ee : -- for the interview, Right. appears here, it would hav . . na erations Lieutenant on Saturday, Perfect. And what times did she work time, the shift they schedule. The on August 10th. And then, || as Administrative Lieutenant at ming in was discovered, and EFTA00126383

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 23 w ~] ive) - actually - the Operations Lieutenant, which was a. Lieutenant Ha. He informed me - or I guess he became aware of the incident, I believe, at 6:30 that morning. MR. a : Okay. And so, I already asked the Operations Lieutenant. It says, “The Operations Lieutenant and the Activities Lieutenant are responsible for day to day operations and maintaining order for three shifts. And an Emergency Preparedness Lieutenant. A Collateral Duty Responsibility in the event of an emergency incident, such as fires, bomb threats, et cetera.” So, is there a - during these instances - was there an Emergency Preparedness Lieutenant? MR. GJ: 9 Yes. MR. QM: | ho was that? MR. a: I believe it was Lieutenant MR. QM: bicutenant Qe okay. MR. a: Lieutenant || was, I believe, at that time, his schedule, the SHU EFTA00126384

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 24 1 Lieutenants were not working on the weekends. 2 MR. a : Okay. ae : They worked Monday through 4 Friday. I believe it was 7:30 to 4:00. MR. a : Okay. ae: So, Lieutenant | | was on military - he was on leave. He had military ies) i w a oO a co leave because he had his monthly drill, monthly wo drill -- t i=) 5) Cc tan 10) he would attend. c No BR BOB | ry I rt oO a 1s) fu rt you know if he was on 3 leave both on August 9th and August 10th? Or 4 August 10th, you said he wouldn’t have worked. t wi w i=] ct was on the 9th? MR. ae: Let me see here. 7 MR. ae : And you can just say, was he on the schedule? t oO a co oO a3 Yeah. So, I mean, right 20 here, || looking at the roster for Friday, 21 August 9th. And I believe that the SHU 22 Lieutenant post was left un-assigned for that 23 Friday. 24 MR. QJ: 411 xight. So, that 25 would just lead us to believe he was not there. EFTA00126385

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 25 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Correct? MR. a: That is correct. He was not there, no. MR. a : Great. And would his position have been, like, you know, was there someone that’s placed in the Acting role when he’s gone, or is -? MR. a: Normally, due to our staffing at MCC, at that point, or at that time, we tried to ensure that, you know, looking over the roster, to try to ensure that someone was within there, the supervising unit. But again, due to the shortage of Lieutenants at that time, I had to - as monitoring, or looking at the roster - I would try to place areas of importance, so Operations Lieutenant, ensured that the Activities Lieutenants was filled. And at that time, that particular day, he wasn’t on the roster, or that post was left un- assigned. MR. a : And that post, like you said, isn't assigned on the weekends. MR. J: 9 No. MR. a : So, Saturday. Great. MR. a: No, it’s not. EFTA00126386

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 26 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ve. MN: 21 right. “i advised that his staff provide special considerations for high-profile inmates, if deemed appropriate, and designated as such. In order to ensure an inmate is providing with proper care, the facility evaluates the inmate using several measures, including mental, physical, medical, psychological, and sexual assault victim, or predator assessments. Since different inmates are admitted with different criteria, appropriate housing varies.” interacted with inmate Jeffrey Epstein on approximately three occasions at MCC. All of which Epstein maintained a pleasant demeanor.” MR. a: Correct. MR. a : “During the first instance, Epstein asked | who he was, and | responded by introducing himself, and explaining his position at the jail. During another instance, | explained to Epstein the policy regarding meals during Attorney sessions, and made certain Epstein was accommodated with water, visits to the EFTA00126387

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 27 w ~] wo 10 11 ive) ” restroom, et cetera. So, did he receive - and I know, it’s my understanding that he was, most days, in with his Attorneys? MR. a : Yes. So, most days, from the time that the Attorney visitation would open, inmate Epstein was in that area, primarily, until it closed. MR. a : All right. And that’s where it “Epstein spent most of the day with his Defense Counsel, and was brought down as soon as the Attorney visit opened.” So, would that be, like, Monday through Friday, or Monday -- MR. QJ: = No. That’s -- MR. a : -- that’s seven days a week? MR. a: -- that’s seven days a week. MR. a : All right. So, was it almost every day? MR. BJ: 9 Every day. MR. a : Okay. And was his food brought to him there, then? MR. QR: No. MR. a : Okay. How would he obtain food? EFTA00126388

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE o ho WwW k 5 a 7] ct 1] wn Q Oo 5 Oo rt 1] w ct = a Pp. bh o ct p o ke 6 o bh s Bp ao b ct w ct bh 2) wi aw They’ re provided water. 6 provided to go to the bathroom. The 7 you know, is afforded the meal. 8 r, I believe that ts) hy H fe) 3 ct i oO 0 | o be 5 Q 3 im a a Pp. to] oO 2 because I didn't remember there was an issue ive) with that, and I know we tried to accommodate, I just can't remember -- ae: -- what was done. 7 MR. ae : Would the Attorneys be allowed to bring him in food? 9 MR. a : No. No, no, no, no, no. 4 or to addr f Co 5 co 23 MR. QJ: 9No. No. No. No. Outside 24 food would not have been allowed. EFTA00126389

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 29 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a: So, I can't tell you if he was actually getting a tray, during that time, I can't remember. But I do remember, there were conversations that - and I know we did something in order to ensure that the inmate was provided some type of meal. Or whatever. I can't remember. MR. a : Sure. All right. That’s fine. As far as the, it mentions two visits. Do you remember anything about the third visit that you made with Epstein? MR. a: The third one. So, that night, on - that would be Friday, August 9th of 2019, I believe I had worked that day close to 8:00. It was about 8:00 or so. MR. Ee : 8:00 i. on August 9? MR. QJ: 98:00 i. MR. a : Okay. MR. a: Correct. So, I was actually on my way, and exited, you know, went and talked to the Operations and Activities Lieutenants. You know, let them know I was leaving for the day. And when I reached the elevator on the third floor, inmate Epstein was being escorted out of Attorney visit by his EFTA00126390

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 30 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Unit Manager. MR. a : Okay. And who was that? MR. a: Which that was, I believe, Mr. a. (Phonetic Sp. *00:25:26) MR. QJ: Right. MR. a: At which time, I, you know, I said, hello, how you doing, Mr. Epstein? And he was, like, okay. So, he had asked me, and he said, Captain, is it okay if I get a telephone call? Now, mind you, we had already discussed that when the inmate - we would reasonably attempt to always facilitate a phone call for the inmate, especially while him being housed in the Special Housing Unit. So, I said to the Unit Manager, Mr. a. I said, Mr. a. are you going to SHU? He said, yeah. I said, well, are you going to be able to monitor the call with the inmate? And he was, like, yeah, I got no problem with that. I said, well, I don’t have a problem. Just make sure that you follow the protocols, and the protocols is, is when that inmate is allowed to use the phone, it has to be monitored by staff, and the number, and who they’re talking to has to be placed in a log. EFTA00126391

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. MR: Okay. Ww Pp 2 MR. a: So, I said, make sure that 3 takes place. || good with it. So, that’s 4 when I got in the elevator, and I exited the 5 institution. 6 MR. a : All right. So, this 7 conversation happened with a. in front of 8 Mr. Epstein? 9 MR. QM: ves, it did. 10 MR. a : Okay. And that’s the 11 point where - okay, so, you did authorize that 2 call to be made, from the SHU? 3 MR. QJ: Yes. 4 MR. ae : Was there a certain line should have used? 16 MR. ae: Yes. It’s a secure line. t wi ct a wu rt ct os oO he 7 You have two lines. You know, you can plug it 8 into the outgoing, and then, it’s the jack 9 that’s just for inside of the institution 20 calls. Or you can put it into the other jack, 21 which allows those calls to be outgoing. 22 MR. ae : Would that be called a 23 legal line? 24 MR. a : Yeah. It would be just an 25 out. This would be a out, out. EFTA00126392

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE Ww 2 MR. a: Out line. 4 MR. QJ: 9 vn-hon. And they’re not recorded w a wo said make sure that it’s -- -- and did you -- ive) a) N Fs) Q tn] HK 0] Q rt -- did you tell him, at 4 all, to document what was -? 5 MR. a: Yes. I told him to ensure that he is present, that - the protocol is, oO 7 because I asked him, I said, look, I said, make , fos) n =] K o ct y fu rt you re present at the phone call. I 9 said, make sure that it’s logged. And when you 20 dial the numbers, the number you have to, like, 21 stay on the line and said, he says, well, I 22 want to call my Attorney. Who was your 23 Attorney? So and so, and so and so. Okay. 24 When they answer the phone, I said, this is 25 M my name is so and so. I have a call for EFTA00126393

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LIMITED ies) w co ive) oO co OFFICIAL U was If yo said, him. MR. un are wo ot) What is your name? And what Okay. And the time that it’s And then, you give the phone to the nd fw You don’t know? to monitor phone calls? But you don’t know if -- -- he wrote up anything? don't know what he did. sured that I told Sure. needed to be done. And what would typically EFTA00126394

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 34 1 happen with that log, then? After he logged it. 2 MR That phone call? WwW 5 w c ia o 5 MR. a : Like, after he documented 6 it. 7 MR. ae: It would be maintained, just 8 in a log 10 MR. a: It wouldn’t be brought for 11 anyone’s review. You know? It would just be, 2 hey, did, hey, did Epstein get a call? Yeah. I 3 could tell you. So, I can pull the book. And 4 then, I can tell you, and look, when he was 5 given a call. 16 MR. Ee : So, it goes into a 7 specific Epstein file? 8 MR. a : Yeah. No. It wouldn’t. It 9 doesn't go ina file. It goes into a book. It 20 goes into a book for monitored calls, for all 21 the inmates, and legal calls. 22 MR. ae : For all inmates. So, not It would be all -- No ion) u c mn rt i] ve] n r iO) ' 5 No No wi og a 4 oe s wu rr i} i} a (a a S a 3 oO fu K ct Kh @ 0) if) a . ct = wu EFTA00126395

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LIMITED ~] wo 10 11 OFFICIAL USE Ww wi MR. a: It would be a green logbook. You know, and it would have the name of the inmate, and who they called, the number, the time. I don't know if the duration is on there. But it will the person who also monitored the call. So, you know, all that wu information. But it wasn’t something, like, form that was filled out, and then it was placed in the inmate’s file. MR. QJ: 9 sure. MR. a: Or central file. MR. a : Sure. MR. a: No. It wasn’t like that. MR. ae : And do you know if that log in the book was filled out? MR. ae: I don't know. MR. ae : You don't know. Okay. When you met with Epstein on that night, how was his demeanor? MR. RJ: «ot was fine. He was cheerful. MR. ae : He was cheerful. MR. a: You know, he didn't look disheveled. He felt - because I asked him, I said, how you doing? You all right? - he said, EFTA00126396

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 36 w ~] man, | | good. Everything is fine. And I said, did you have a good visit? And he said, yeah. Everything is fine, Cap. I said, all right, man. MR. QJ: Okay. MR. a: You know? MR. a : No cause for concern? MR. a: No, because every time we had that interaction, it was always pleasant. It was never negative. MR. a : Okay. It says, ‘i was made aware of the possibility that Epstein would be housed at MCC in advance of Epstein’s arrival. | was not present when inmate Epstein was admitted to the facility. Epstein was thoroughly vetted to determine if he was fit for general population, and was ultimately placed in the Special Housing Unit. MCC places inmates under three categories of close supervision. One: dry cell for those at risk for smuggling contraband. Two: psychological observation. And three: suicide watch.” MR. J: 9 vm-hon. MR. a : Is that all correct? MR. QJ: ss Yes. At that time, yes. EFTA00126397

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ~] wo 10 11 lo —] MR. Ee : Okay. So, who made the decision to place him in the Special Housing Unit, specifically, and why? MR. a : Okay. So, basically, the rationale for placement of the inmate in the Special Housing Unit would have been a decision ultimately made by the Warden. They would have took the criteria of the inmate. They would have been, like, okay, well, what’s his risk? You know, what would be the likelihood of him being endangered if he would be placed in general population? His culpability. Can he cope while being inside of a general housing unit? So, the determinations was made between Medical, Health Services - oh, | | sorry - Health Services, Psychology, and the Warden. MR. ae : And who was the Warden at MR. QJ: «tt was mr. QR. MR. QJ: | nd do you know how to MR. a: It would be i -- MR. a : Apostrophe. MR. a: -- apostrophe, a . MR. a : Thank you, sir. Are EFTA00126398

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE wo o 1 there any other secure housing units within the 2 MCC? ies) 3 MR. There is only one secured 4 housing unit. That’s the SHU. 5 MR. QJ: Okay. Not -- 6 MR. ae: But however, we do have -- 7 MR. a : -- Ten South (Phonetic 9 MR. a : -- Ten South. 11 MR. a: And Ten South is for, I 2 believe those are for SAM inmates. And those 3 inmates are under a specialized monitoring, 4 which comes from, I believe it’s from the 15 Attorney General, I believe. I can't remember 16 who’s the person that’s over it, but I believe 7 it was the Attorney General, or whoever, makes 8 the determinations for those inmates. 9 And what is SAMS 20 21 - I can't remember. 24 MR. a : That is correct. ke, an acronym, EFTA00126399

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE Ww wo 1 though? 2 MR. a: It is an acronym. Okay. And that is not ies) a 4 made by anyone at the MCC? That’s made by the w i rt ct oO iat 5 o het G D 5 oO 6 a] t i} i} oo a] 4 fo wu rt nn .Q fe} B 5 Q rt oO ion oO I le i) wu i wo 10 MR. a : All right. Was there any 3 4 Could he have been placed 5 ain 16 MR. ae: | | sure he could have. 7 MR. ae : But I mean, by executive fos) n rt i] Ph fh oO K x c an jen rt a o ke a yy ion ct Oo 7 ny o 3 h Q o fu a fu b bt ct ie) 21 to make a special 23 MR. to, you know, 24 vet him, and someone would have to approve it, 25 I believe, outside of the executive staff at EFTA00126400

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 40 w ~] mcc. MR. a : Okay. And then, that’ where I meant by, is, so the executive staff 7] wasn’t able to -- MR. a: I don’t believe so. MR. a : -- independently -? MR. QJ: 9oNo. We were not. MR. a : Okay. Were there many inmates housed within Ten South at that time? MR. a: No. I believe, at that time, we may have had a total of four to five. Of course, you know, we had the notorious FY | up there. We also had the Apple Puff (Phonetic Sp. *00:33:38) was up there. We also had inmate - it starts with an S. I can't remember his name. But basically, these are inmates that have made crimes against the United States, which it was deemed that those inmates would be in that Special Management Unit, and they couldn’t, of course, go to the general population. MR. ae : Was this, like, a terrorist type of people? MR. a: I would say some of them were terrorists. You know, of course, you had EFTA00126401

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 41 w ~] HE) «Nat was up there, the terrorist king pin, drug king pin. He couldn’t go ona general population unit. MR. QJ: Sure. MR. a: He would go - normally, guys like that would be in places where I come from, before, you know, like Florence. MR. QM: Okay. MR. a: He would be at the ADX (Phonetic Sp. *00:34:19). Apopov (Phonetic Sp. *00:34:21). I believe that - Apopov - I think that was his name, Apopov or Sopopov (Phonetic Sp. *00:34:25). These guys had made terrorist threats against the United States, or there was guys up there that had materials, or that was found in cooperation with outside Agencies that was trying to determent of (Indiscernible *00:34:43), and cause harm to the United States. These kind of guys was put in that unit. MR. a : Sure. MR. a: Guys you wouldn’t want in the general population because -- mR. QJ: yeah. MR. a: -- of their recruitment EFTA00126402

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 42 m 1 value, or their radical ability they could b 2 able to do - have recruitment value for, you ies) know, for other inmates in the general 4 population. You don’t want those guys in w ther 6 MR. a : Yeah. 7 MR. ae: But Jeffrey Epstein 8 know, he’s a multi-billionaire. a : Sure. Now, as far as Ten 10 South. Is that one inmate per cell? o oO AJ MR. a : And video monitored at No Fs Wa wu bt bt rt be =| @ n 4 MR. a: Yes. 16 maximum security tj 7 MR. a: That would be the highest 8 security that an inmate at MCC would be placed 9 in 21 MR. ae: Yeah. Could be placed in. 23 MR. a : But the executive team EFTA00126403

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) MR. Ee : Okay. yo advised that Epstein preferred not to have a cell mate and engaged in manipulative behavior to avoid having one.” What type of behavior did he -? MR. a: I believe that Epstein and - when he first came in - he was doing self- manipulative behavior. You know, he was showing passive resistant activity, as far a fi ' you know, when they’re taking meals, or wouldn’t listen to staff, as far as when they’re giving him direction. You know, he would sit in his cell, and he wouldn’t talk. You know, I believe he wasn’t taking meals at one point. He was refusing to take showers. Things of those that nature. MR. Ee : And the sentence continues, including requesting to see a Psychologist. MR. QJ: = Yeah. MR. QJ: sts that part of it? MR. QR: Ss ves. MR. ae : Okay. Did he say why he wanted to see a Psychologist? MR. a: I don't know. MR. QJ: No? EFTA00126404

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 44 w ~] ive) MR. a: Remember that, no. MR. a : Sure. “At Epstein’s request, he was interviewed by a Psychologist.” Do you know who he made that request to? Would it have been SHU staff? MR. a: He probably would have made those requests to any of the staff that may have been monitoring him at that time. Because if he was placed on psychological observation at that time, psychological observation, you would have had to have a staff person that sat there and monitored the inmate. Another inmate couldn’t have monitored him. MR. ae : Okay. And that, is that, MR. a: That would have been 24 hours of that. Seven days a week. MR. a : So, a staff member is MR. EJ: $9 Right. MR. a : -- would just sit there and watch him? MR. a: Correct. MR. a : Communicate with him, or no? EFTA00126405

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 45 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a: Yeah, of course. MR. a : Okay. MR. a: I mean, and that’s, you know, encouraged. I mean, you know, and not have - you want it to - even though the inmate is placed in that situation, again, we’re talking about humanity here. MR. a : Mm-hmm. MR. a: You know, you want to gage this guy’s mental acuity. Meaning that, the inmate, you want to know how he’s feeling, how he’s doing. MR. QM: sure. MR. QJ: Is he improving? Or is he declining? Because if he’s declining, and you can actually see it, you want to contact somebody. You know, if this guy is in there being very, you know, belligerent, he’s being passive aggressive, or active resistant, or displaying signs of violence. You want to make sure you notify someone. You’re not just going to sit there and allow this guy to do self-harm to himself and/or a staff when they come to the door, to provide his services. You know? Such as taking him to shower; providing his meals; EFTA00126406

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 46 1 providing his medication or whatever 2 So, you just don’t want to just sit there and 3 allow this inmate just, you know, if he’s going 4 to be detrimentally could be harm to or 5 himself, you want to ensure that you 6 someone. 7 MR. a : Okay. “So, following 8 this assessment, Epstein was initially placed 9 on suicide watch. He was later interviewed 10 again, and downgraded to psychological 11 observation.” 12 MR. QJ: «9 vm-hom. 13 MR. a : Now, just for the suicide 14 watch and psychological observation, where are 15 they located? 16 MR. a: Those would be conducted 17 downstairs, on the second floor, in the Health 18 Services area. 19 MR. Ee : And that’s outside of the 20 SHU. Correct? 21 MR. a: That is correct. 22 MR. ae : And that was prior to any 23 attempt on his life or anything like that? 24 MR. a: That is correct. 25 MR. a: Okay. Was that EFTA00126407

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 47 1 that’s okay. “After some time, he was returned 2 to the SHU. | began hearing talk that 3 Epstein was trying to get back on suicide 4 watch.” 5 MR. QJ: 9 vm-hon. 6 MR. a : “Information like this is 7 usually generated from rounds, kites -”, and 8 kites are notes, correct? 9 MR. a : Correct. 10 MR. a : And notes from inmates, 11 specifically. Correct? 2 MR. ae: It could be - yes - that would be inmate correspondence. 4 MR. ae : Yeah. “And monitoring of phone calls and letters.” 16 MR. ae: Correct. 7 MR. QJ: «So, the hearing of talk, ive) w 8 that’s all based upon inmate talk? 9 MR. a : That would have been - all 20 that staff 21 MR. ae : Okay. Staff, as well? 22 MR. a: You know, staffing sitting 23 there, and, you know, especially when he’s on 24 suicide watch. You know, staff are taking 25 notes. So, it’s every 15 minutes, you know, EFTA00126408

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 48 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 staff is - oh, | | sorry - every 30 minutes, I believe, I can't remember. It’s been a while. But, you know, a staff member - it’s every 30 minutes, I believe, is taking a log of what the inmate is doing inside of his cell. MR. a : Mm-hmm. MR. a : You know? So, you know, what is he doing? The inmate is facing to the right. The inmate is facing away from staff. The inmate is, you know, doing what, or he makes statements, those statements will be written in the log. MR. a : Okay. It says, “On or about July 23, 2019, Epstein was found unresponsive, on the floor of his cell, witha homemade piece of fabric on his chest.” When ” you say a “homemade piece of fabric,” can you explain that a little bit? MR. a: Okay. Basically, a homemade piece of fabric. It could be anything. Because it’s out of the Special Housing, that’s what we’re talking about. Right? MR. a : Yeah. I mean, || talking about specifically in this instance. Do you know what is meant by “found on the EFTA00126409

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 floor, 2 chest”? 3 vn. a: 4 from a t-shirt. 5 from sheets. 6 we. (9 so, ~] 10 together. 11 MR. —_ oO with a homemade piece of fabric on his It could have been fragments It could have been fragments It could have been fragment -- like, -- cloth -- -- that they could tie It was tied together, or -- 2 MR. a : Sure. 3 MR. a: -- you know, (Indiscernible 4 *00:41:14), to make some type of homemade 15 fashioned -- Did you see it at all, 7 though, yourself? 8 MR a : I can't remember. 9 MR Ee : Okay. Sure. “Epstein’s 20 cell mate had flagged the attention of a staff 21 member, who handcuffed the cell mate, and 22 removed Epstein, to bring him to the Medical 23 Unit.” Do you recall, at that time, who his 24 cell mate was? 25 MR. : Tartaglione. pieces of cloth EFTA00126410

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 50 1 MR. Ee : Okay. Great. And did 2 you - all right. We talk about him in a little 3 bit. yo heard from his staff that Epstein 4 may have been faking unconsciousness.” Do you 5 know who told you that? oO es) o f bh o wu a BP Qa wu i b f 3 7 memorandum, I remember when it was reported to 8 me, and I made my report, I believe it was in 9 the report of incident by Lieutenant a. 2 believe that she had put out an e-mail, which 3 concluded that the inmate was showing 4 manipulative behavior through his statements, 5 and what was observed by Medical staff. 7 MR. a: So, basically, they were saying that the incident didn't occur as the co 9 inmate may have tried to make it look or occur. 20 MR. QJ: Okay. And we’re going to 23 “Because he was not 24 observed opening his eyes and making other 25 suspicious movements not consistent with an EFTA00126411

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 51 w ~] unconscious state.” Or sorry. “Because he was observed opening his eyes and making other suspicious movements not consistent with an unconscious state. Epstein was medically a f sessed and became coherent. Epstein claimed that his cell mate, Nicholas Tartaglione -”, T- A-R-T-A-G-L-I-0-f-E -- MR. J: 9 Mm-hon. MR. a : -- tried to take his 1£ ” Was that investigated? MR. a: I believe - no, I mean -- MR. a : Sure. MR. a: -- I can't remember, but I believe a report of incident may have been done. MR. QM: okay. MR. a: And primarily, when a report of incident is generated - so, any time that an incident happens in the institution, || going to walk you through this. The Lieutenant that’s on shift is supposed to do the initial fact finding. The gathering of evidence. Okay? MR. SR: | r-on. MR. a: And all of these things. And EFTA00126412

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) then, they write a brief synopsis, and then, it’s put in a packet, and then, ultimately, Department will investigate it, especially i we’re having an assault, which would have be a 224 Alpha, which is a minor assault of another. So, pictures would have been taken Clinical assessments of both inmates would h sts ols £ en ave been taken. Witness statements would have been taken. All of these things would have been done, and it goes into an investigative packet. - Lieutenant a - - would have -? MR. a: Would have been -- MR. ae : Created it and provide IS? io) it to MR. a: -- and would have created and for it to move on. MR. a : And do you know if the was any credibility found to the claim that Epstein made, that this other - his cellmate had tried to take his life? MR. a: I don’t believe there was credibility that was ever concluded -- MR. a : Okay. MR. QJ: 9 -- that that incident d it, re any EFTA00126413

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] wo 10 11 ive) uw ios) happened. MR. a : And do you know anything about when he was initially found, if the homemade rope or whatever it was, was found around his neck, or it says in this, “On his if chest,” anything with that, with, you know, do you know what I mean? Like, if someone was trying to hang themself, if it came on their chest, do you know anything about how that may have happened? MR. a: I mean, forensically, I wouldn’t know. | | not a -- MR. a : Sure. MR. a: -- an investigator on that level. So, I can't really tell you the position of any type of homemade fashioned item that would be used to facilitate a suicide attempt, or -- MR. Ee : Sure. MR. QJ: 9 -- an assault attempt. That’s not my level. MR. ae : Sure. MR. a: Again, || trying to remember what it was, or what was used, but again -- MR. : | e-hmn. EFTA00126414

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 54 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a: -- I don't know exactly. So, I can't really determine or give you that type of, you know, I don’t have expertise -- MR. a : Sure. MR. a: -- in that area. So -. MR. a : But the information that was provided to you suggested that he tried to take his own life, not that the cell mate tried to take is life? MR. a: Correct. That it was inconclusive that the inmate had - inmate Tartaglione - had tried to kill this guy. Or tried to do any self-harm to this guy. So, you have to - so, like, you have to take an advantage because it’s one inmates’ word against another. MR. ae : Sure. MR. a: So, when the investigation comes down, of course, inmate Epstein would have been interviewed; inmate Tartaglione would have been interviewed, at which time, you would have took those statements, you would have waived, and then you would have took into consideration any witness statements, or anything that was observed during the clinical EFTA00126415

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE wi ~] 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 uw wm assessment. So, that’s why Health Services helps us out, because the inmates don’t want understand that everything they’re doing, or anything they’re saying, is being entered on that clinical assessment. MR. a : Sure. MR. a: So, that’s where they were saying that he wasn’t - his actions may not have been what they should have been for a person that was quasi supposed to had been assaulted. MR. a : Sure. MR. a : Or if he was supposed to have been unconscious, you was displaying this type of manipulative behavior. So, again, I wasn’t there. So, I don't know what occurred. | | just going by what was - the information that was relayed back to me. MR. Ee : Absolutely. So, as far as Tartaglione -- MR. a : -- what was he in for? MR. a: I believe that Tartaglione was responsible for - he was a former Police Officer, I believe - and I believe he had EFTA00126416

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) uw oO killed four people, and then he buried them, buried the victims somewhere up near Otisville Prison. I think that’s what it was. Back in the day. MR. QJ: Okay. MR. a: Yeah. Something like that. MR. a : So, he was actually in for murder, though? MR. a: Yeah. It was murder. He was € in for murder and whatever other stuff he wa if] doing. MR. I: okay. MR. a: Doing in his capacity as a MR. a : And who selected him and why? To be Epstein’s -- MR. a: Who selected him? MR. a : -- who selected him to be Epstein’s roommate, and why? MR. QJ: 391 don’t remember who vetted Tartaglione. But what I will tell you is that, even though Tartaglione had a murder on his jacket, Tartaglione also was an inmate that had issues being in general population. You understand what | | saying? EFTA00126417

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 57 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a : Mm-hmm. Former Police Officer? MR. a: Former Police Officer. He had issues - because I’ve dealt with Tartaglione at Brooklyn - so, he was up on one of the Units in Brooklyn, and he had issues with those inmates in those blocks, where they’ re made for people who are sex offenders. For inmates that have issues with - when they go to population - general, they can't cope. Formal law enforcement. These type of guys are in that unit. So, you don’t really have that much issues in those type of units because these guys are going to do their time, or await their sentencing, and then move on. So, you don’t really have a lot of violence. But this guy was always, always in the mix of something. MR. a : Mm-hmm. MR. a: But we couldn’t put him on the general population unit, and you just can't throw him in SHU. You know what | | saying? Just because. You just can't. So, in Brooklyn, we had the ability to put him in - I think it was in K82. I can't remember. When he goes to MCC, you know, they don’t have those EFTA00126418

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 58 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 type of units. You know? So, he would have to go in general population, or he would go to SHU. So, if the inmate fails the program and said | | not going to population, you can't force me. So, when you do his assessment, his Unit Team does the assessment, Psychology does their assessment, Health Services does that assessment, and say, well, hey, this guy is clear to go to GP. There’s nothing precluded him to go. But the inmate said, well, you know, | | a 306. 306 is refusal of programs. | | not going. So, put me in SHU. So, that’s how he ended up in SHU. MR. QJ: Sure. So, he was in SHU already? MR. a: Yeah. MR. ee: And do you believe he was a good placement for Epstein? MR. a: Well, at the time, again, you would have to be mindful, we don’t - how could I put this? - inmates are not placed in cells based on race, or - but however - or gang affiliations, all of these things that, you know, but however, you vet inmates. So, you say, Okay, well, you have guys up there that - EFTA00126419

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) uw \o at MCC - that were facing murder charges. There’s a lot of them. MR. a : Sure. MR. a : Hey, I mean, if they’re in SHU, that means they can't cope on the outside. They can't cope in the general population unit. So, we would look at him just like another inmate. MR. SR: r-on. MR. a: He never hurt another inmate. MR. a : And that was going to be my next question. So, he wasn’t known to assault anyone? MR. a: Bro, he never assaulted another inmate. MR. QM: okay. MR. a: Yeah, he got a murder beef, okay, that’s fine. But guess what? He never hurt any other inmates while incarcerated. MR. QJ: Sure. So, taking, though, that he was incarcerated due to murder, though, and that Epstein claimed that he tried to murder him, do you think that - do you believe that there was any credibility to that claim? EFTA00126420

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 60 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 MR. a: Again, what I will say is, is that I will tell you, like you said, my statements before, that it was brought to my attention that inmate Epstein was doing manipulative behavior, kind of testing the water to see what he could get away with. MR. a : Sure. MR. a: Being his initial incarceration. Probably not too familiar with being in jail, but however, he’s a smart guy. He kind of figured out what he could do, in order for him, one) not to go to GP; two) try to get in SHU and try to get a cell by himself. That’s kind of where he wanted it to go. MR. a : So then, he wanted to be in SHU by himself -- MR. a: Of course. MR. a : -- and that may have been MR. a : -- said that -? Okay. So, you believe that he made the claim against Tartaglione because he wanted a cell by himself. MR. a: That’s in my belief, after EFTA00126421

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 61 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 looking at everything, and everything that was done, I believe so. I think that would be accurate. MR. a : Okay. It says, “He was placed back on suicide watch for approximately one week.” So, that happened the 23rd, and it brought him up to about July 30th. Is that correct? MR. a: Mm-hmm. Correct. MR. QJ: 0f 02019. “unlike his first and previous placement on suicide watch, Epstein now has definitive suicidal tendencies reported in his incarceration history. The staff was tasked with determining whether Epstein was in fact suicidal, or using manipulative tactics to avoid assignment of a cell mate. After suicide watch, Epstein was placed on psychological observation, and eventually returned to the SHU.” Now, again, and just to go back, this Ten South thing, that didn't never - were Lieutenants bringing it to you? Like, hey, he should be on Ten South? MR. a: No. MR. a : You don’t recall any Lieutenants saying that? EFTA00126422

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 62 1 MR. a: That wouldn’t be a 2 Lieutenant’s purview. ies) a Sure. 4 MR. ae: A Lieutenant, most of the 5 people - and then, I will tell you, I didn't 6 understand SAMS placement until I became a Deputy Captain. wo F MR. a : All right? And I understood 10 that, you know, these guys, you just can't put That identifier, that’s an N ive) 5 MR. QJ: 9Bor central Office. So, if a Lieutenant - so, t oO a 7 if we’re talking Lieutenants, and they’re 8 saying, he should have been in Ten South -- 9 MR. QJ: 9 well -- 20 MR. QJ: | -— but they don’t know 21 what they’re talking about, basically? 22 MR. a: No. Because that identifier 23 - because I believe you know this - it’s an 24 identifier. EFTA00126423

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE uw ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 MR. a: That’s put on an inmate just like - I will give you an example - sentencing designations. Okay? MR. QJ: Sure. MR. a: That’s their job. MR. SJ: 9 -hoon. MR. a: They’re going to do, say, what Security level inmates, what type of prisons they go to, if they’re a transgender, you know, all of these different things, all that stuff is going to come from that Central Office, to say, okay, we looked at this particular inmate’s history, or PSI, and we feel that this identifier needs to be placed on this inmate. So, a SAMS identification, or moniker, put on an inmate, executive staff can't put that on there. MR. a : Sure. MR. a: That’s going to come from Central Office. MR. a : Okay. So, although a Lieutenants may have thought -. MR. a: They may have - yeah - they may have thought and said, yeah, due to, yeah, his situation, of him being a multi- 63 EFTA00126424

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 64 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 billionaire, or whatever, or due to his issues of his proclivity to sexual deviances, and all of these things, he wouldn’t be a good candidate to go to GP. But guess what? That responsibility, that identifier, that moniker should have been put on Epstein before he even came to MCC. MR. a : Sure. So, do you know if this is something - obviously, it sounds like it would have been out of your hands - would that be something that the Warden would discuss with, what? The Regional Director? MR. a : That’s right. The Warden would have had that discussion between SIA, the Regional staff, and also, it goes to the Region, the Central Office staff over Correctional Programing. MR. a : Okay. And you were never MR. a : -- involved with any of MR. a: I would never be in any of those conversations. MR. a: Okay. Fair enough. So, EFTA00126425

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 65 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 who would be the two to - I guess the Warden would be the right person to go back to and just say, hey, did this ever come up in conversation? MR. QJ: 9 Right. MR. a : Okay. Okay. It says, “At the direction of the Warden, | initiated the process of compiling possible cell mates for Epstein, vetting them and submitting candidates to the Warden for his review. | and his staff fully screened potential cell mates, and reported their determinations up to the Warden. Efrain Reyes -", E-F-R-A-I-[f, R-E-Y-E-S, “- was selected and housed in a cell with Epstein.” MR. a: That’s right. MR. ae : And it says, “The Assistant Warden,” but | | assuming they mean the Associate Warden, “Warden and Regional Director were notified.” MR. a: Okay. This is how that went down. Mr. F sat with me - not with the AW present - and we wanted to - we started talking about security protocols, moving forward for Jeffrey Epstein. That’s with me EFTA00126426

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] and Mr. a. we had this discussion. a Okay. Because like I said earlier in my statement, even though the AW would have been my next in succession, as far as my Supervisor, however, I did have conversations for 03) directly with the Warden, as far a security situations (Indiscernible *00:57:32) in the institution. MR. a : Sure. MR. a: So, we sat there, and he wanted me to compile names, and vet inmates that would be possible good candidates as a cell mate for Epstein moving forward. MR. a : Sure. MR. a: So, I brought a compiled, I believe I had ten names, and he and I went through those names, we brought it down to Then those three names, Mr. | - because I sat there - when he called the three. Regional Director, on the phone, and he and the Regional Director vetted those three names. was privy to that conversation. I sat there, And then, I sat there, and EFTA00126427

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 67 1 and he gave them, and he faxed him the whole 2 makeup of all three of them, and the Regional 3 Director said, no, I want this guy. 4 MR. a : So, the Regional Director 5 — 6 mR. QJ: 9 ves. 7 MR. a : -- ultimately made the Les] ie} o Qa be ifs) k 3) 5 wo i=) So, give me a little What was 2 ae: I believe Reyes was a anic, older male. I believe that ive) 4 particular inmate was in for - I think he was in for child - some type of sexual F oO Qa wu 5 + Hh oO 3 @ 3 on oO 6 oo a a om | | 7 MR. ae : Some kind of a charge 21 MR. ae: -- with, you know, those type EFTA00126428

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 68 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 MR. a: -- as Epstein, I believe, or I can't remember. MR. a : Okay. Was he - when he was being vetted - was he close to, like, a release date or anything like that? An anticipated release date? MR. a: No one knew that. Because this is what you need to understand about MCC. MCC and MDC are basically jails. They’re not prisons. MR. a : Sure. MR. a: It’s a jail. So, that means if a guy goes to court, you know, you get locked up, and then, the next day, you might go to court, the Judge might say, no, | | releasing you. We don’t know. MR. ae : Sure. MR. a: The only time we’1ll know is when the inmates come back from court, where is this guy at? He was released. MR. a : Gotcha. MR. a: Okay. Now, we got this guy still in our count. So, if they don’t bring a transfer order, our count is bad. So, they’re going to bring the transfer order back with EFTA00126429

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 69 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 them for court line. These guys got released. So, normally, court line is over before 4:00. So, we try to get these guys up. Do some inmates come back after 4:00? Yes, they do. But however, we don’t know if an inmate goes out to court, if they’ re coming back. MR. es : Sure. MR. QJ: However, there is times when they put out a roster, and it’s given to - as far as all Correctional Officers that work the units, and it will say, court line, inmate Reyes - using him as an example - WAB. That means that he has to come downstairs with all belongings. So, if they say it, that means he’s not coming back. That’s either he’s transferring to another BOP facility, or he’s going to be released to the street. MR. a : Okay. MR. a: But I can guarantee you that that transfer or that roster, that inmate Reyes was on that day, it didn't say WAB. Because it would have said WAB, the first thing that that OIC should have said, that’s my orange tag guy. Because I made them do all the orange tag guys, and I made them put them up on the board. EFTA00126430

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 70 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Epstein is that orange tag guy. He’s supposed to have a cellie. WAB. Oh. Cap. SHU Lieutenant wasn’t there. But he would have called me directly. God. Hey, so and so don’t have a cell. MR. a : Yeah. So, how long did it take to vet? You know, I know you said you started it with ten, and then it brought down to three, and then the Regional Director ultimately decided the one. But how long does that process take? MR. a: I believe it took - | | thinking we did it for - we did a day. It took a day. MR. a : Okay. MR. a: I mean, we actually went - and, you know, I don't know - I know either the Warden and I was having a lengthy conversations, because the Warden wanted to ensure - Warden FY philosophy when dealing with Mr. Epstein was this: he’s another inmate. MR. : | e-hon. MR. a: And what he tried to try to get across to exec staff, and what he tried to EFTA00126431

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 71 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 get across to us, as me, as the Captain, to when I disseminated down to the subordinate staff, this is another inmate. Who cares about what his charges are? MR. a : Sure. MR. a: Or since he’s sensationalized in the media. Nobody cares. MR. a : Of course. MR. a: We’re going to manage him appropriately. Because if you know anything about jails, and the BOP, especially Brooklyn and MCC, we don’t run those jails. The court runs those jails. MR. QJ: Right. MR. a: So, and that’s the truth, the court, the Judges, whatever the Judge says goes. So, and that’s unfortunate, but that’s neither here nor there. So, Mr. Ft wanted the staff to say no, this is the inmate, yeah, he has certain charges, but we’re going to make sure he gets everything that all the inmates get when they come to MCC. The inmates are going to get proper care. The inmate is going to get showers. The inmate is going to be fed. Whatever it may be. But however, after those EFTA00126432

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 72 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 situations with Epstein where it showed that his behavior was manipulative, when it shows that he was trying to get things for unnecessary gain. Or he would do anything to get anything that would benefit him, we had to take some different protocols. We had to take a different - they had to take a different -- MR. QJ: | Approach. MR. a: -- mindset with this guy, or the way we managed him had to change. Because we already had this guy saying that he was going to be killed, and all of this stuff, or whatever. So, we just wanted to make sure, moving forward, we put protocols in place that will protect us, as an Agency. MR. a : So, speaking of protocols, was it discussed, then, when you were vetting these, hey, we have inmates constantly moving out of here, if Reyes is moved, one of these other two that were down to the three would be moved in with him? Was that discussed? MR. a: No. He would just basically - because like I said, again, at MCC, you wouldn’t know how long the duration on the EFTA00126433

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 73 = t 5 | fu ct i) ty n rt wu tos ies) i You wouldn’t know. So, you just have to w agaln. Oo oo OD ! 7 | _ wu bh al bh fu he © o K Q Whoever is available in the i=) a 1 unit, that m fu y be single-celled, because as you 2 know, our policy and protocols in the Bureau of ive) Prisons are dealing with restricted inmates, 4 and Special Housing Units, they cannot be 5 celled alone. t oO Fs) He =) jon I ! 7 MR. a: They must have a cell mate. 1 Housing ci sp 1) Lee) 5 | 1 b 3 rt =) o 9 Unit, everyone must have a cell mate? Mm-hmm. 20 MR. 21 MR. QJ: 0h, I didn't know that. 22 So, every single one needs to have a cell mate? 23 MR. a: Except - except, because it’s 24 one of the areas that we didn't dis 25 outside of Ten - there was a range that EFTA00126434

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) oO co was meant for - it was, like, a stepdown from outh, that only had one man cell which was on G-range. Special Housing Unit? MR. QJ: 9 n-hon. MR. a : So, there is a part of the Special Housing Unit that is a one-man part that has two-man occupancy? MR. a: That is correct. MR. ae : Okay. And Epstein was housed in the two-man occupancy? MR. J: 9 vm-hon.. were filled with inmates that were vetted, tha needed that type of MR. ae: You had inmates in there OFFICIAL USE 74 EFTA00126435

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ~) wm that, if they was put with another inmate, inside of the Special Housing Unit, they would die. MR. a : And was part of that -- MR. a: They would be assaulted. So, we would have to make those considerations. So, the protocols of how we dealt with inmates, according to their situation -- MR. SR: r-on. MR. a: -- I believe it was sound. But guess what? You can only - you’re like the coach - I can make the game plan, but if the players are not executing the game plan, whose fault is that? Is it the coach? Or the player? MR. a : And exactly, and that’s what we’re doing here, we’re Monday morning quarterbacking. We’re just saying, like, all right, this is - and that’s why we’re going back through it. So, “The Warden directed | on multiple occasions that Epstein needed a cell mate at all times, and ma verbally informed his Lieutenants the same. | repeatedly directed his SHU Lieutenant - Lieutenant || - that Epstein needed a cell mate at all times. Additionally, | EFTA00126436

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) ~) on visited the SHU on multiple occasions, and directed staff to be very alert and attentive ” c about Epstein’s special accommodations. So, when you say that about the SHU staff, did you also inform the SHU staff that Epstein needed to have a cell mate? MR. a : Yes. MR. a : Oh, so, they all were -- mR. QJ: ves. MR. a : -- were aware? MR. BJ: 9 Yes. MR. 2) wu 5 ke oO i= look at the - so, the SHU staff for both of August 9th and the very early morning hours of August 10th - can you just list the people and let me know if you informed those people? MR. a: So, basically, my hours of work were normally from - let’s just say 7:30 to 4:00. MR. J: Sure. MR. ae: So, I ensured that it wasn’t within one week, but it was a process of doing rounds. So, I try to hit every shift. MR. a : Sure. MR. ae: So, I hit the day watch EFTA00126437

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 77 1 because that’s the one I work. Evening watch, ‘ over late. I walk up there. Hey ies) this is the situation. Let’s make sure that, 4 you know, we’re paying attention. And then, w morning watch, of course. oo 5 So, beginning at 8:00 9 .. then, on August 9th, can you just look to n wi } vou 4uet na 10 who - and name the people - can you just name 1 who was in the SHU, and if you’ve ever had w ? 2 conversation with them, if they were aware. Let me see here. 4 Well, we had a I’ve talked to a. 5 | | (Phonetic in there. a. || was one of the g that was up there as a Rec Officer. Ww 5 oO s fw B *01:08:06). He was oO So, all -- Lee) 5 9 MR. EJ: sin. 20 MR. QJ: -- all of those people 21 were, you had conversations -- 24 them, and th EFTA00126438

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LIMITED ies) w oO ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE 78 Absolutely. Can you name the other people for the shifts after him? MR. ae: You got - now, i. a. i. a. what you need to understand is, that he would have been - because, you know, like I said - overtime. Non-custody. He’s non- staff. I don’t have conversations with MR. ae: So, that mean -- MR. a : -- may not have known? MR. a: -- right, because realistically, the morning wat nd evening watch shift, people don’t like to come to work. MR. a : So, they - if you sign up for overtime, you oh, SHU two is open. I’ll take it. But you’re non-c that means anybody can work it. A teacher. A Food Service foreman. Is the SHU easier to work than the other units? MR. ae: I wouldn’t easier, EFTA00126439

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ~) wo but it’s less labor intensive. MR. QJ: Okay. MR. a: Because, in my opinion, from when I worked Special Housing, Special Housing was always hard work because || going to tell you why. You have to be vigilant. And when I mean vigilant, you have to understand, when you’re working that Unit, anything can happen. It could be quiet. But guess what? If you’re not walking, looking in those cells, testing the Security protocols. Meaning, making sure the flaps are closed. Making sure the doors are locked. You want to know that, in SHU, sometimes doors was unlocked. MR. : e-hon. MR. a: Or flaps opened. To chase doors, those -- MR. a : What is a flap? MR. a: -- the Food Service flap. MR. QJ: Okay. Sure. MR. a: You know? Making rounds. Making sure the inmates are not - have coverings up when you open up the - what do you call it? MR. QJ: the window? EFTA00126440

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 80 w ~] wo 10 11 ive) MR. a: The windows or putting a towel over their beds, and blocking the light from you being able to observe them. MR. QJ: But: then, how -- MR. a: And what I said about -- MR. a : but how -. MR. a: -- but I want to go back because I know about the statement, about the doors being left open. | | talking about more in general population, as far as when you’re making rounds, those type of things, you test. Making sure the door is secure. Making sure the food slots are secure. MR. EE: | Me-hon. MR. a: As an Officer coming up, even as a Lieutenant, do you know that I’ve actually walked in a Unit and pulled on the door that’s supposed to be secure, and its inmate is wide open? MR. QJ: Wow.) Ever at the MCC? MR. a: No. Because that wasn’t my Line Officer subordinate, and also when I was a EFTA00126441

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 81 uw ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 Lieutenant making rounds, that’s what I would do. When I hit a unit, it wasn’t just to talk to staff. I would walk in and look at the Security protocols in the Unit. Is their fire extinguisher there? Good. Your phone work? Computers work? Hey, let’s walk the block. Pulling on doors. Pulling on food slots. Showing - trying to train the Officers. MR. a : Sure. MR. a: That’s what I used to do. MR. a : Lead by example. MR. a: And guess what happens? You would find stuff, because people in hurry enough to go home on that evening watch, them inmates know their doors are locked. But they know they’re not going to come out. Because if they come out, there’s a situation. But they’1l sit up there and leave it open. MR. Ee : So, back to this, though. Can you look at the other SHU on, you know, the subsequent shifts, if you had conversations with them? MR. QJ: 9 so -- MR. a : So, a. no. MR. a: -- so, a. because he EFTA00126442

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 82 1 would have just been on there. Mr. a. 2 Yeah. I’ve talked to Mr. PF because Mr. PF would go between evening watch, 4 because I would talk to him. || would work ies) 5 evening watch, so I’ve talked to him on evening 6 watch He was working morning watch because 7 these guys, it was such short of staff, that 8 these SHU guys was working back to back shifts. 9 Or staff It didn't matter. People who wanted 10 money, or wanted to, you know, they would sign 11 up for overtime. So, f | fF was one 2 of the regular SHU staff on the evening watch. 3 Yeah, so, I talked to him. a. i 4 HM. «St talked with him. [.- 5 | would go between the three, and also cause he had the most k f foal ct Ss oO et Oo ion @ wledge out 7 of those guys. So, sometimes, he - even though 8 he was the three - he was the one with C 9 duties. 20 MR. QJ: | nc ofc stands for 21 Officer-in-Charge ho 4 MR. a : So, he was doing all the When it was time to move inmé wi tes 7] No 0 EFTA00126443

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 83 1 insid m it) of the Unit, you know, he was in charge 2 of ensuring those Sentry rosters was updated, 3 to ensure that the accountability of the unit 4 was correct, to make sure that the 5 their proper cells. Who was this? 6 sorry. Hold on. rs) F = wf u =] 0 O Ph i=) ian y oO | | Ww N Od ! oe 1 =] K oO o = w . a . H y 5 Oo = 4 MR. a: Now, a. I can't remember t oO a Okay. 7 MR. a: But I know that I had hit all 8 three shifts Meaning that, day watch. I was 9 Evening watch. yed over because that’s what the Warden 21 wanted. He told me. Hey, sure you go and No Nm a p ct w b = rt om tal 1) 0) i) a B fh rt is) The Warden told me to do No ion) nm it . So, if the Warden told me to do it, why 24 wouldn’t I go do it? EFTA00126444

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 84 1 MR. QJ: 9The Warden -- Ww id | | = 0) if) wu rt Q is) 5 p @ if fu a Q 4 these are the things that I want to happen. w i | b K U ct H ui =] ct K Oo c +t Oo 8 wu tan 1) sure, walk through, t fw Hh 6 talk about, make sure the i] f is aware, (Indiscernible *01:13:53) are doing this, this, 8 and this. And also, I know that you have - 9 that I put out an e-mail. So, I just didn't 10 tell them - what do you call that? - by -- So, you sent an e-mail to nN wu B = ct =a 0) wn b = es) ie GQ 0 To all Ww 5 K o n me Qa Q or 4 Correctional Services staff. And I think I 5 still got rr To all Correctional? t oO a I still got -- Lee) 5 J Ps) al wu ty Did you ever provide -- wo 5 1 1 er i= fw rt o i} 3 wu b He uh? No rary i = Did you ever provide that 23 to anyone? No 5 oO And they never asked for EFTA00126445

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. Ee : Can you absolutely a Ps) K rn) wu 5 think I have one, 4 and we can go to my office, so I can show wi a jen Oo 3 ct = wu = = you to think I - I will bring it 7 MR. a : So, would have this and || || been on that e- co ts] 3 ieY) pb. = You understand? t ioe) a 15 did was 16 17 1€ was 18 t’s not 19 the case? 21 happen. 22 MR Okay. 23 MR emergencies happen, 24 regardless of what r discipline is, we all EFTA00126446

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 everyone, when you came in the BOP, everyone 2 was given the opportunity, that when you went 3 through Correctional - those tactics that you 4 learned in Glynco, it was about being a w Correctional Officer. It wasn’t 6 Dentist, or being a Chaplin, ~] about Correctional principals. Okay. or whatever. about being a It’s 9 MR. a: Introduction to Correctional 10 principals. 11 MR. Ee : But as far as there is an 12 e-mail that just the people that are working in 3 the Correctional Officer -- 4 MR. BR: 9 ves. 15 MR. a : -- okay. 16 MR. a: And I can show that to you. L7 MR. ae : Perfect. 8 MR. a: I have that. 9 MR. Ee : Awesome. 20 MR. MJ: 9 Because it wasn’t just me 21 just talking to them. I put out guidance, and 22 I kept putting out guidance. It wasn’t like it 23 was one time. I talked about inmates being 24 placed on suicide watch. I talked about 25 inmates putting on there - what is the EFTA00126447

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 87 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 difference between close supervision - what is it? - suicide watch. MR. a : Psychological observation. MR. a: And psychological. There’s no such thing as psychological - and that you know now - there’s no such thing. It’s called close supervision. There’s no such as psychological. That was an MCC thing. MR. a : Okay. MR. a: That they made up. So, it’s a close supervision and/or suicide watch. MR. a : So, you have at least one e-mail, though, that you sent to Correctional Officers saying that Epstein needed a cell mate? MR. a: It wasn’t saying Epstein, but I do have two. I think I gave one e-mail and one memorandum that I wrote for the 583 packet for Epstein. I think you may have that. I don't know if you have it. And then, I have wrote another one about the important of doing 30-minute rounds in the Special Housing Unit. MR. a : Okay. Yeah, if you can - after we’re done - either you can send it to EFTA00126448

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LIMITED No No iN ies) w fos) wo ioe) fee) © ion) OFFICIAL USE [oe MR. a : All right. Then just -- MR. a : -- I think there’s a few more. Like, I don't know how to spell his name, name, but -- was another non- a. I believe wor - he was a Material Handler. I think fe d in was a Material Handler. So, t Correctional Services anymore. However, did have a background - no, || sorry. | went to R and D. he was Receiving members worked Correctional Officers. assignment, their job EFTA00126449

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a: Their whatever, their non- custody. MR. a : So, the people that worked in the SHU, and the Correctional Officers, they were aware of it, but people that had different functions in the facility, they may not have been? MR. a: May not have been because I wouldn’t talk to them on a daily basis. MR. a : And what about, do you know if there were any kind of, like, post-it notes, or sticky notes, or any -? MR. QJ: 9 Yes. I had created - it was one, one, because I said orange card inmates - I said, make sure these particular inmates, inmates high visibility inmates, and I think I talked about that, that the inmates, their cards should be orange. And those would be our high visibility inmates that you - and I think I got an e-mail about that, too - about the high visibility inmates inside the unit, you should take special care to ensure these inmates are -- MR. a: Observed. 89 EFTA00126450

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 90 1 MR. a: -- observed. When you’re 2 doing your rounds. 3 MR. a : Anything, though, about 4 the actual cell mate requirement, though? Do 5 you know if there was any kind of, like, sticky 6 note, or any kind of post-it about saying, hey, ~] make sure that Epstein -? 8 MR. a: I can't remember. 9 MR. a : Yeah, yeah. 10 MR. a: But like I said, I was 11 putting out a lot of guidance -- 2 MR. a : Absolutely. 3 MR. a: -- you know, coming from - 4 and, you know - coming from the Warden, and 15 things that I would have thought that was 16 beneficial to the Correctional Officers. I was 7 just putting that guidance out. I kept putting 8 out. You know, like I said, you know, | | 9 talking to them, | | putting out the guidance, 20 but if they don’t open their e-mail and don’t 21 read it. 22 MR. ae : What about some of the 23 people who were Acting Lieutenants? Somebody 24 like an sos x EE. 25 vR. BR: vs. BP EFTA00126451

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 91 N a. Ms. a. she would work ies) Correctional post 4 MR. a : So, should have he known w ct a w rt i} | Oo MR. ae: She would have known. 7 MR. a : -- should have she known 8 that Epstein had -? 9 MR. a : It’s common knowledge that 10 you’re supposed to do 30-minute rounds. 11 MR. SR: 9 e-hoon. 2 MR. ae: And be vigilant. But 3 however, would she know, necessarily, that 4 those protocols were placed on Jeffrey Epstein, 15 that he was supposed to have a cellie? I mean, 16 you see an orange card, if you see the 7 guidance. I believe I had put something 8 together, that was on the OIC’s desk, on the 9 desk, talked about the high visibili inmates, 20 and Jeffrey Epstein was a high visibility 21 inmate. 22 MR. ae : But is it understood that 23 a high visibility inmate like that needs a cell 24 mate? 25 MR. SE: K i] n EFTA00126452

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LIMITED ies) w co io ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 92 MR. Ee : Okay. So, you’re saying, ay. And did they all MR. QJ: 411 xight. And to are not cus lie. I didn't have that conversation with MR. Ee : What about Lieutenants, like the Acting Lieutenants, like | a: was in Correctional Services. And she - I believe - during that time, was working an EFTA00126453

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE nm 4 ite] ot) in Correctional a} ervice. She was working an Attorney ies) « UY 4 conference during that time. 5 actually promoted her to Acting Lieutenant. 6 She was getting paid as a Lieutenant. So, yes. 7 She would have known. 8 : So, she should have - or 9 uld have? 10 Yes. : How about some of these 2 other ones that we’re on? You said ma. ive) obviously, you already said you -- him. oO Les] k 5 ct a i) oO Bh Hh k Q 0) - w =] jon = o wn ie] ie) tan o « i) wn 9 MR. Ee : Do you know how - and I 20 think you said that you spoke to him on 21 multiple occasions -- 23 is that correct, and 24 he has a cell mate? a5 av EFTA00126454

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 94 1 MR. Ee : Okay. What about | Ww 5 1 H 7 wu fom 4 conversations - well, I don’t believe I hada w 6 MR. a : Should have she known, would have known n w a o 8 MR wo out through the e- i=) 1 MR. Ee : Now, the guidance, 2 though, said about - you said it talked about 3 rounds as opposed to actual cell mate 4 requirement, though, correct? Okay. 7 MR. a: You know, I don’t know, because like I said, again, I put out a lot t oO a co 2) Fh 21 MR. ae: But I know the pe 22 actually spoke to as far as, like, hey, you the ople who I 23 OIC, I mean, you’re the Lieutenant of SHU, that 24 means you working day watch, that means 25 movement happens on day watch, it don’t happen EFTA00126455

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 95 1 on morning watch. Inmates are locked in their 2 cells. 3 wR. QJ: Right. 4 MR. ae: So, anything, day watch, 5 evening watch, that SHU Lieutenant should be 6 aware. 7 MR. a : Okay. 8 MR. a: So, that’s why 9 MR. a : And we’ll get in -- 10 MR. a: So, that’s why we would have 11 that conversation. When he and I had that 2 conversation. 3 MR. a : And do you remember - so, 4 you recall specifically talking with him - do 15 you - and this is, I want to know about - aside 16 from what they should have known - specific ~ 9 remember about | a. I believe it’s as 20 internal. I came into the Lieutenant’s Office 21 and we spoke about it. So, asa 22 the Lieutenants were made aware. I can't say I 23 remember that I would come into the 24 Lieutenants, and we would talk about Epstein. 25 So, again, between the guidance that was put EFTA00126456

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE out through emails, and the conversations would have just encountering Lieutenants, And would have Jj ma those people working in the SHU k g 1 He would have - as yes. Should there in somebo Although, | | i. I think that was her at least y like - somebody that’s not quarterly pos she was in ther lot of time have MR. leading up to it. should he made that she -- MR. a : Yeah. sure about -- worked evening MR. : + probably n ee But by him working in the unit, he de ew ea ot. would know. EFTA00126457

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 97 w ~] ive) I mean, you would say, okay, if he’s working on evening watching or morning watch, there was no need to move inmates. There was no showers that should have been taking place. There was no hearings. No medical. Nothing that we had £ £ to open up a cell door for, for those inmates. MR. a : Okay. MR. a: So, most of those inmates was done on day watch, there was no reason for them to move these guy MR. QJ: Okay. MR. a: You understand what | | saying? MR. ae : Sure. And then, as far as conversations with | a: MR. a: Fs was one of the Lieutenants. As far as - again - speaking to i] as Lieutenants as a forum, you know, hey, got to make sure that you guys are doing it, you know, like that. But I know for a fact, the only person that I spoke to, that I pulled in my office, was the SHU OIC. MR. QM: so -- MR. a: Was the SHU Lieutenant. Because they’re in charge of that unit. So, I EFTA00126458

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE wo oo A 1 di is] U seminate the information and the guidance 2 out to him, and he’s supposed to take that ies) guidance -- 4 MR. SR: 9 e-hoon. and push it forward -- 6 MR. a : For the unit. So, he’ wi aw | | ts) in the charge of the unit. You went to the guy 8 in charge of the unit and you said, hey, you’re g Y , ¥r unit. Make sure he’s oO } 3 a > fw a] Q 0 a Eh t a a i=) And he, then, is supposed 2 3 to take that, and anybody that works within his 4 unit should know? t oO a Okay. What about these 7 Lieutenants, though, especially the ones that 8 are Acting as, like, Ops Lieutenants and 9 22 23 24 MR. a : Should have they known, 25 during these shifts, specifically on the 9th EFTA00126459

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) and 10th -- MR. J: 9 Mn-hon. MR. a : -- should have they know that Epstein was required to have a cell mate? MR. a: I believe so. MR. QM: okay. MR. a : But, like again, I would hav to go back through my emails, you know, becaus a lot of the communication that me and the Lieutenants had were through e-mail, because you can't catch them all on shift. MR. a : Sure. MR. a: You know, you catch them passing and coming. So, I would put out guidance that way. MR. Ee : But as far as - you said - that everyone knew that he had an orange car and that he was a high visibility inmate, and \o n e e d therefore, he was required to have a cell mate. So, should have they known through that? MR. ae : And is there any excuse for any of them to say, I didn't know? MR. a : | | not going to put that on the Lieutenant. You know, || not going to do EFTA00126460

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE 100 that. MR. ae : | | not going to be that guy Because | | going to tell you what, sir, to be real with you, it 5 th c HK o MR. a: -- through that timeframe, that I don’t want to put my statement to something like that, that could detrimentally harm one of these Lieutenants. MR. a: | | not going to say that, hey, I talked to -- i] Mm-hmm. =) oO rt .Q is) bp 2 ct Oo a Oo rt a fu rt ain, you’re don’t recall specific conversations about the cell mate requirements -- EFTA00126461

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LIMITED ies) w co ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE 101 MR. a : -- is that something that just is common knowledge, if someone has an f its] MR. ae: -- that one occupancy. So, with the guidance I had put out, I got to give one inmate. you that e-mail. hat e-mail was saying That e-mail wa ying with these orange cards, you need to ensure high visibility vigilance. MR. a : So - all right - so -- know, are alive, and all of this, EFTA00126462

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 102 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) report any, you know, I went into detail with that. MR. a : Okay. So, maybe not, if it’s an orange card, it doesn't necessarily mean, then, that they require a cell mate, they WwW. i= w rt require -- MR. a : Higher - or higher supervision. MR. a : Okay. So, you just need to know what they’re doing at all times, and make sure that they’re okay? MR. a : Yeah. MR. a : All right. So, in this instance, it wouldn’t be, necessarily, cell mate. It would be everybody knows keep an eye on Epstein, make sure that he’s -- MR. a: That is correct. MR. a : -- all right. So, || is the only one that you can specifically recall -- MR. QJ: 9s ves. MR. ae : -- and again, what you said -? MR. a : And then, again, when I went a on evening watch, morning watch, those shifts, EFTA00126463

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 103 1 when I had those teams together, yeah, I would 2 talk about vigilance after doing 30 minute 3 rounds. Making sure this is done. Making sure 4 that is done. 6 MR. ae: Making sure this guy -. You ~] know, that’s what I did. 9 MR. a : Because that’s what Mr. 10 ; wanted. So, I did it. 11 MR. QJ: «811 right. And then, 2 again, just to make sure that || not 3 misunderstanding you. You said you talked to 4 | | specifically about it, but when you did 15 visit the SHU, not only were you telling them 16 to keep high visibility on Epstein, were you also telling them, the people that you did 8 interact with, that he needed to have a cell 9 mate? 20 MR. BJ: 9 Yes. 21 MR. QR: okay. 22 MR. a: Yes. 23 MR. a : On Friday, August 9th - 24 or sorry - when is the last time, can you 25 recall, that you had that conversation with the EFTA00126464

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 104 wi ~] 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 SHU staff? MR. a: I can't remember, sir. MR. a : No problem. MR. a : I don’t remember. Because like I said, that guidance came out between the time of him being upon his release from suicide watch from that last time, to the time during the time that we was doing the vetting for the cell mate. MR. QJ: so -? MR. a: So, it was, you know, it was a short period of time that this guidance and these conversations took place. MR. EE: | Me-hon. MR. a: And then, the reinforcement was when we would walk through the unit and just do rounds. And then, i. like, hey, this is a high visibility guy, why this guy got trays in the cell? Extra trays in his cell. Why this guy got this? So then, of course, you know, a lot of people at MCC, they didn't like me because I was trying to hold people accountable. But I didn't always write people up. EFTA00126465

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 105 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a: That’s how I did, I came up like that. || trying to help you. People thought me trying to just talk to them about Correctional Services, or trying, giving them little, you know, helping them out, talking to them, you know, that I was trying to be the know-all, be-all, be that guy. You know? You know, you’re not sociable, but now you’re down here, telling us what to do. You’re not one of those. That’s the way it felt like. So, like, again, I can give you the playbook to success. But if you don’t read it, it’s just words. MR. a : Sure. MR. a : It’s just words. And then, I had a lot of issues with the Lieutenants. You know, Lieutenants, you know, were self-serving, even though, in my previous statement, I would never say anything statements to hurt them. || not doing that. But what I’1l1 tell you was, the relationship between me and the Lieutenant core was not good. So, again, as we move forward through today, you know, the statements that I make is not to try to put blame or try to hurt anybody. The only thing || doing is, is telling you that, when the EFTA00126466

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 106 1 Warden gave me direction, he said he wanted X, 2 Y, and Z, and X, Y, Z. Not only did I talk to 3 staff, I also re-enforced it by putting out 4 emails, because I know I can't catch everybody, 5 and I know that staff is going to blow you off. 6 I mean, like, yeah, whatever. | | glad he out 7 the unit. Let’s go ahead and go back to 8 whatever we was doing. It’s what it is. 9 MR. a : Sure. And just so you 10 know, just to give you a little bit of peace of 11 mind, we’re asking you the questions directly. 2 You’re not placing blame on anybody. 3 MR. QJ: 9 Right. 4 MR. ae : So, if we ask you -- 16 MR. QJ: -- like -- 7 MR. QJ: 9 Okay. 8 MR. a : -- if they were w MR 9 responsible or something, that’s not on you. 20 MR. QJ: 90h, okay. Well, I just 21 wanted to -- 22 MR. NN: yeah. 23 MR. a: -- because I didn't 24 understand that. 25 MR. a : Yeah, yeah. EFTA00126467

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LIMITED oO io ioe) oO oo wo OFFICIAL USE 107 ball? coming to us, fault. understand. MR. a : I mean, we EFTA00126468

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LIMITED ies) w co io ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 108 a: You know? a : -- who did drop the ball HS: Bt that’s not - you're not coming to us. We’re coming to you. MR. MR. Operatio Ee : -- had oversight that took over the responsibilities of the So, what time did - on August 9th - what right? a : Correct. August 9th. EFTA00126469

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LIMITED ioe) io ioe) oO oo wo OFFICIAL USE 109 MR. a: I got - so, basically, I have MR. | : He was Saturday, which was Saturday. to midnight? MR. a : He wor midnight on that turday, the I was just All right. Ops Lieutenant? EFTA00126470

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 110 2 MR. a : And then, underneath them, the Activities Lieutenant would have been 4 a. and then, a. MM: «Right. 6 MR. a : Correct. All right. ies) w 3) nal ia bh 7 right. So, they must have got this wrong 8 somehow. So, it said - so, this is not 9 accurate, when it says in this report “In 10 this event, the Operations Lieutenant, J.” Who 3 actually 4 out 5 MR. a: That would have been the day watch Operations Lieutenant. 7 MR. ae : And who was that? day watch Operations oO Lee) 5 | 7 o o 9 Lieutenant for August 9th would have been - it 21 MR. ae : So, || would have been 23 MR. QJ: 9 Right. 24 MR. a : And is it your 25 understanding that || knew that he needed a EFTA00126471

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 111 w ~] wo 10 11 ive) cell mate? MR. a: I believe so, yes. MR. a : Okay. All right. So, that was incorrect, all this stuff about the | thing. And then, it goe informally advised his Lieutenants that to on to say, Epstein was not to be housed alone, and emphasized the need to be vigilant about 30- minute checks and unannounced rounds.” And that’s - you said there was emails about that, as well as when you spoke with your Lieutenants, and when you went to the SHU, specifically? MR. GJ: «9 Mm-hon. MR. a : Correct? All right. And you don’t remember the last time you did that, but between August -- mR. BR: No. MR. Ee : -- between July 30th and August 9th, you at least did it a few times? MR. QJ: «Right. MR. ae : Okay. And you think you hit at least all three shifts between that time? MR. a : Correct. EFTA00126472

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE 112 MR. a: I believe I did. Yeah. MR. a : All right. Inmates, cell mates, and are typically the people that are assigned to the SHU, are they in tho shifts, or you would have hit the people that are assigned between that time period? So, point being, maybe su don’t remember specifically, I had a versation with that person, or that pers or that person, but if its) re signed to , not a temporary duty wu MR. ae : -- that was their duty, MR. a : So, like, I remember specifically, I hit day watch. remember Mr. aa. | or aa. Whatev his name. I remember those guys. MR. SJ: 9 e-hoon. uy) KK EFTA00126473

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LIMITED ies) w co ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE 113 MR. QJ: 31 know I spoke to J. 1 The SHU staff that was always up there. MR. a : But you just don’t specifically remember talking to Jr MR. a: She might have been in the kground somewhere. MR. don't know. But I don’t remember -- MR. a : But || should have could have MR. ae: -- actually -. MR. Ee : -- with her? MR. a: Of course. the unit. ng about it now EFTA00126474

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE - it looks like Reyes was moved - I think h i] ppointment with court was at, like, 8:30, wu I think -- MR. QJ: 9 vn-hon. MR. QJ: -— he was gone from t stitution by -- MR. J: 9 vn-hon.. MR. a : -- like, 1: MR. QJ: 9 vm-hon. MR. a: Something like tt MR. a : So, who was in the SH e, 1:50 .. who would have -- MR. ae: So, that would have been MR. ae : -- who would have -? Fs) | | wu a be (e) rh he (2) Cc R a rt O i) MR. ae: So, that would have been MR. ae : So, I gue let's g 0) its] 7) Te] 12] 114 is he ° U at n 2UU, from EFTA00126475

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co its) No N No Wa OFFICIAL USE 115 that would have been SHU one, because he would yt the notice that he was supposed to move And who was that? the inmate. And who was that? MR. a : a. And what time was he working from? oO Nas working from 8:00 to MR. a : So, he was 8:00 to 4:00. And those times are accurate on there, and if some Lieutenants said, oh, we, you know, it says but we’re actually 10:00 MR. a : And that’s true, but the Officers worked those its) ,) Pp bh ct a7) prescrib MR. a: The Lieutenants was given shifts because of their commutes. rt J ie) 7] 0) A MR. ae: Some of them were commuting EFTA00126476

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 116 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 two hours out. So, for them to come from various parts of New Jersey, or Long Island, you know, as a consensus, we said, hey, I will continue - because that was the previous Administration, the previous Captain put that in for those guys. MR. es : Okay. MR. a: So, you know, with those conversations, you know, with the Lieutenants, I said, I will keep that. I said, you know, you try to do things - where I came from, we didn't do those things. MR. a : Mm-hmm. MR. QJ: 9 You know, as far as that, you know, the Captain ran his shifts, whatever the shift was, you did it. But when I came to Brooklyn, that was a common practice in Brooklyn. You know, the Captain would allow them - when I was the Lieutenant - would allow us to, you know, to work those shifts. And due to, we’ve got staff that commute far out. So, that was just an incentive to get these guys to come to work. MR. SR: | r-on. MR. a: You know? EFTA00126477

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 117 ioe) w io ioe) No e ° wo i) b ho MR. a : But the times for thes the SHU staff, that’s the actual hours that’s oO oO o er correctly imitates their schedule. Perfect. So, who, then 7 would be worki g until they would have at do something. MR. ae : And who was it that was re) I rt a i] rt jen i] he all of those individuals about the need for a ' EFTA00126478

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 118 io th. is] 1 have been on Augu 2 MR. a : Right. But just -- ae : It would have been on -- 4 MR. a : -- but they would have known the need to -. 6 MR. ae: They was in the unit. ] ies) i w 7 MR 8 MR 1 can't tell you, but I know I spoke to the 2 watch SHU staff. ive) Fs) Sure. y was the first ones I oO Les] rt J o =| rT rt (t oO Hi rt oO r H ct it Mh Hh ct 3 wu rt ~ n 23 MR. a : -- they now know that he 24 doesn't have a cell mate, and the cell mate is 25 not coming ba EFTA00126479

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 119 1 MR. a: Okay. So, they would have 2 known that he wasn’t coming back until probably 3 evening watch. 4 MR. a : Okay. So, you don’t 5 think those guys would have known? 6 MR. ae: No. They wouldn’t have 7 known. Because I don’t know when the inmate 8 left the institution, but what happens is, when 9 that court line comes out, I believe that the 10 inmates leave the institution - supposed to - 11 between 6:00 and 8:00, or 7:00, you know, let’s 2 to 9:00. So, between that time, those 3 inmates are - they’re picked up, and then, 4 they’ re transported to a court. 16 || work? What was his shift? 7 MR. QJ: MJ was 8:00 to 4:00. 8 MR. a : So, if we can - let’s 9 assume, for this instance, that i knows 20 that he needs a cell mate. 21 wR. QJ: «Right. 22 MR. ae : What should have he done? 23 MR. a: || probably wouldn’t have 24 known. 25 MR. a : But let’s say, for this EFTA00126480

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 120 1 instance, he did know. 2 MR. a: So, if he knew? He knew that he needed a cell ies) a 4 mate, and he knew that the cell mate wasn’t 5 coming back. 6 MR. ae: He probably wouldn’t - but 7 what | | trying to tell y sir - he probably 8 wouldn’t have never known. oO a I know, but in this i=) Nm bd I I ' 0) ct 7) say that he did. the instance of Wa id Oo a wu th 18] 4 what would have happen. What would happen was t oO a MR. Ee : What should have he done? 7 MR. a: -- he should have - okay, 8 this guy is not coming - he should have 9 notified me 23 he went out to court, he’s not coming back. 24 MR. QJ: nd he did not? EFTA00126481

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 MR. Ee : Okay. MR. a: No one later informed me that that inmate had even went to court. I didn't even know he went with the court. Because guess what? During the time this inmate is in court, Epstein is in Attorney visiting all day. MR. a : Sure. MR. a: So, nobody would have even thought about it because, oh, Epstein is in Attorney visiting, his cell mate is not in there. Okay, his cell mate went to court. Nobody would have even been made aware that he didn't have a cellie until when they went to put him physically in the cell. MR. a : Okay. So, when do you think it would have been - in this instance - when do you think it would have come up? MR. a: As far as knowing he didn't have a cellie? MR. QM: Correct. MR. a: Somebody should have known when he didn't come. That should have been on evening watch. MR. a : So, who was on evening watch? 121 EFTA00126482

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 122 oO io ioe) oO oo ho No Wa MR. a: So, evening watch, well, well, well, well, well, well let’s see here. ou’re talking about as the MR. QJ: tn the suv. MR. ae: That would have been MR. QJ: 9 vm-hon. MR. Ee : And who should reported the matter to? MR. a: He would he Operatio would have been, that would have iously, MR. a : So - okay - and would EFTA00126483

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LIMITED ies) w co io ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 123 a. But guess what? I was there. I didn't leave that night until, like, 8:00 something. I was there until 8:00 that night. visit the did not night, Correct? MR. MR. a: | | not make rounds that day or didn't I. I tut I know I didn't leave that institution until late tt MR. MR. a: Had went to court. No. MR. a : -- you didn't even know he went to court, let alone wasn’t MR. a: Correct. is somebody that you did have a MR EFTA00126484

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 124 1 with, with regard to the need for a cell mate. Correct? 3 MR. ae : I don’t know if I - again, 4 talking to people in all three shifts, do I 5 remember | Working in the unit? Yeah. 6 But as you’re talking to people, I don’t 7 remember that, hey, I talked - there’s certain 8 people that I can't remember that I spoke specifically to. 10 MR. QJ: Right. 11 MR. BJ: a 2 you know, could have been in the area. That’s is] s Opposed to some people, ive) I can't - I know I talked to the day watch 4 SHU staff for sure. t wi a Okay. 16 MR. ae: And I mentioned those names. 7 I talked to those guys. 8 MR. a : So, but | | should have oO certainly have told them? 21 MR. ae : So, he’s the Officer-in- 22 Charge. Who else was on that day? 23 MR. a: You had | | i. And she 24 was the number two. And then, you had i. | 25 -- EFTA00126485

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 125 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) MR. Ee : i a. Correct? MR. a: -- yeah. MR. a : Okay. MR. ae: ia. And then, you had i. i. was SHU three that day. And then, you had the SHU four, was not assigned. MR. a : Okay. So, those three people were in SHU. So, was it ultimately the Officer-in-Charge responsibility, or should have these other two - || and | | - have taken any action? Should have they contacted anyone? MR. a: Well, if you’re walking, and you’re doing rounds in the unit, you would see - especially at the 4:00 count, because you need to know where all of your inmates are - so, at that 4:00 count, and where is Epstein? , Epstein is at - he’s in Attorney visiting, Hh because || going to get a count slip from Attorney visiting, right? MR. SR: o-oo. MR. a: Where is Reyes? Reyes is out at court. Then somebody should have called R&D (Phonetic Sp. *01:45:06). Where is this guy at? Somebody should have called R&D. That EFTA00126486

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 126 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 means the Lieutenant would have been notified because you can't clear the count. Where is the inmate at? MR. QJ: Right. MR. a: So, if you can't clear the count, where is the inmate? The inmate went out. But it’s now 4:00. But I did say that sometimes inmates don’t come back on the 4:00. ” So, they call that “ghosting. Supposedly, he’s supposed to be at court. But did you get a count slip from court? No. When he leaves out of the institution, that’s on them. So, that means the institution number should have came down minus one. MR. a : So, you believe that the SHU should have known by 4:00 .. during the 4:00 i. count? MR. a: Yeah. MR. QJ: 411 right. And let’s - in this case - if they didn't do a count at 4:00 .. should have they somehow known otherwise, after that? So, would someone have contacted them and said, by the way, this guy is not coming back? MR. a: Right. So, that means that, EFTA00126487

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE that the 4:00 count, when you going through MR. a : But if they didn't do So, let’s say, in this 5 cr ie] a 8) fw Cc rt 5 ct Nobody would know. Would R&D have a] MR. a : So, unless count, they don’t even know that the guy is MR. a: So, normally -. 27 the a MR. a: Because you would know. Because like I told you before, sometimes inmates go to urt and don’t come back. The EFTA00126488

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 128 uw ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 only time you’re going to know is when these guys always come back from the court line by MR. QJ: Okay. MR. a: But sometimes they don’t come back at 4:00. MR. a : Now, what time was their shift? Was it 4:00 to midnight? MR. QJ: 9 who? MR. a : The people we were just talking about, the evening watch. MR. a: Yes. Their - yes. 4:00 to midnight. midnight. At that point, if it was recognized that there was no cell mate and he needed a cell mate, could have a - if they did contact the Ops Lieutenant, Ops Lieutenant did contact you - could have an inmate been assigned at that time, or would have had to have wait the next day? MR. a: Well, what I would have done, if I would have known right then and there that he didn't have a cell mate, he’s already in Attorney visiting, right? EFTA00126489

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 129 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a : Yup. MR. a: So, I would have went on ahead. All right. Keep him in Attorney visiting. I would have called - guess who I would have called? I would have let the AW know. Ms. a. Well, Ms. a. and I would have called the Warden. I would have said, hey, look, this guy went out the WAB today. Or Reyes didn't come back from court. We got to vet another guy. MR. a : Okay. MR. a: That’s what would happen. And plus, I was there at 8:00. So, let’s say he got released from Attorney visiting, and he didn't go back, and when they went to the - let’s say, hey, this dude - he don’t have a cell mate. I would have been, like, hold up. I would have said, because I got R&D staff down there. Right? MR. ER: | e-on MR. a: Because I can't put him on suicide watch. I can't put him on close supervision. So, I would have said, hey, quarter this guy right now in R&D, put a staff member on it, which would have been Fox One. EFTA00126490

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 130 1 Put him on Fox One. Put a staff member down 2 there. Let me call the Warden. ies) a What does Fox One mean? 4 MR. ae: That means - that’s R&D. Okay. w 3) It would have been Fox 10 MR. a : And are those -. 11 MR. a: Just, I can't just put him on oO a Ine. 2 suicide watch. 3 MR. a : Right. And in Fox One, 4 people monitored at all times? 5 MR. a: No. But I would have had monitored -- 7 MR. QM: 90h, I gotcha. a : -- I would have had, hey, put oO co a 9 a staff member down there, and watch this guy, 20 until we get him a cell mate. 21 MR. ae : Okay. And you think that 22 that same day, August 9th, he would have had a 23 cell mate, if you were made aware? 24 MR. a : Yes. If I was made aware, he 25 would have got a cell mate. EFTA00126491

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LIMITED ies) co co OFFICIAL USE 131 MR. Ee : Okay. Now, let’s go back || did know, and didn't tell you, he didn't tell that -- MR. a : Because, again, like I told you about count, and you made a good statement, then how did you clear the count? MR. a : Mm-hmm. So, the two people that - so, if 7 knew, and he didn't iy he dropped the ball, but at the same time, if the 4:00 a. count was conducted, they would raised the would have be 0 ri) is] have also happened at the 10:00 a. count, as well. EFTA00126492

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 132 Ww w wo Ww No e ° wo i) b No MR. QJ: sso, if the 4:00 Q.- count, the 10: cond no MR. a: Correct. MR. a : All right. So, if HS) dicin't know, QJ didn't tell him. So, || dropped the ball, th the ball, it looks like. SHU staff ore we move on < to anything MR. a: Can we take a break? All r (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter went rd and back on the r rd). EFTA00126493

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 133 wi ~] 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. Ee : Okay. The recorder is on. It is currently Tuesday, June 15, 2021, at 12:06 a. We just took a short eight-minute break. And Mr. a. I remind you that you are under oath. Thank you very much for your cooperation with this matter, and it is voluntary, and you can choose not to answer, or leave at any time. MR. a : All right. So, what we are talking about before, before we move on, I just want to go back to, so, you said, if ia knew he dropped the ball, if the SHU staff didn't do their counts at 4:00 J., and at 10:00 .. that’s when they would have next found out that Epstein was without a cell mate, and they would have, then, reported it up. MR. QJ: «9 Mm-hon. MR. Ee : Correct? What did we want to follow up with on that? MR. a: If a notification came from court that Reyes wasn’t coming back, who would have got that notification? MR. a: That notification would have came though R&D and through the Control Center, EFTA00126494

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 134 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 which, the Control Center would have updated the count in Sentry, to reflect if the inmate was physically in the institution, or was still out in court. So, it would be contingent to look at that Sentry roster, which would be the E-1, that the Control Center had created for those counts, to find out if Reyes was still on the count, as physically being in the institution, or out the court. MR. a: Okay. And if R&D and Control did get that notification, did they have to notify the SHU? MR. a : Yes. Because then the count would be off. MR. a: If, let’s just say that that notification came between 1:00 i. and 3:00 .. who in the SHU would have got notified? MR. a: The OIC. Which would have been - for day watch - it would have been either | or a . MR. a: And what should they have done? MR. a: And with that one time, they would have reflected on - inside of Sentry, and also, they would have known that the inmate was EFTA00126495

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 wo wi 1 not physically there, and they would have had 2 notified the Operations Lieutenant, that this 3 guy didn't come back. So, that means somebody 4 would have had to make sure that the 5 institutional count was right or wrong. 6 MR. a : So, in this instance, if 7 | | knew, who would have been the one that 8 would have informed him? 9 MR. a : That would have one of the - 10 that would have been either YY - P| 11 would have notified him, but then, I also said 2 that | worked in the capacity of OIC ifs] 3 because a lot of those Officers would say, oh, 4 I don’t have the ability to log on, into the 15 program. So, he would do double duties. 16 MR. Ee : Okay. So, let’s say that the SHU staff that time did notify aa. 9 MR. Ee : Let’s say 7 now 20 didn't take any action. 21 MR. QJ: 9 m-hon. 22 MR. a: let’s say the 23 next SHU staff comes on board, should they 24 continue to report the matter up the chain? 25 MR. QJ: 9 Yeah. EFTA00126496

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 1 MR. Ee : Even though the SHU that 2 replaced them already made the notification Ww 7 ies) that Epstein was without a cell mate and needed 4 a new one? 5 MR. a: Because their count would 6 have been off. 7 MR. QM: weil -. 8 MR. a: And then, they wouldn't have 9 known that, you know, when they brought him 10 back from Attorney siting, that the cell was 11 empty 2 wR. QM: Right. and J not 3 specifically talking about the count right now. 4 What JM saying is, like, if the SHU did notify 15 ia. hey, Epstein is required to have a cell 16 mate and his cell mate is gone, we need to get him a new one. 8 MR. QJ: «Right. 9 MR. Ee : | now never takes any 20 action. Should the SHU, later that day, made 21 the same notification to the - in this case - 22 to BBM’? fey, Epstein still hasn’t been re- 23 assigned a cell mate. 24 MR. a : Correct. EFTA00126497

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) 7 OFFICIAL USE 1 Ww have done it right at day watch, and || got the notification, but the SHU on night watch -- MR. QJ: 9 Didn't do it. MR. a : -- didn't do it, and they MR. ae: Because he was in Attorr visiting. So, they said, oh, it was an empty cell. We said, okay, yeah. Epstein is still at Attorney visiting. Nobody would h about the cellie because tt would h oO thought he was still out at court. MR. a: But if he didn't come back by 8:00 that night, somebody should have said something. MR. Ee : Now, let’s go even further from, now we go from evening watch to now morning watch, we’re on August 10th, where i and ) are now in there. MR. QJ: 9 Correct. MR. ae : Should have they made the notification to HP MR. a: They wouldn't have known. MR. a : All right. So, they EFTA00126498

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 138 1 MR. a: They would have been in the 2 unit, with the assumption that all of the 3 inmates have been accounted for by the previous 4 shifts because the count didn't go - wasn’t 5 bad. a ~ w n Oo rr a fu rt i rt Ss oO be ho Oo Oo wo [es] BOW Q m. ra) K H He o R fe) o ct ke 12] co un w bE y Q ct Zz Oo ke o 0 Ss T 10 really need to do 11 MR, a: No, no, no. || not saying 2 that. What || saying is, they would have not 3 known that that inmate didn't come back from 4 court, if it wasn’t addressed on either at day 15 watch or evening watch 7 MR. a: They wouldn’t know. They 8 would just - can't be responsible for counting 9 what inmates was housed in that unit, between 20 the hours of 12:00 to 5:00 i. Because those 21 are the three counts. 22 MR. a: These. 23 MR. a : So, yeah, let’s see - so, 24 these are the counts - let’s look. 25 MR. ae: So, the 5:00 - one? EFTA00126499

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 139 it loo the 5:00, the 10:00, the midnight, the 3: .. and then, is this the rounds? MR. a: MR. a : The control. I’l1l take this. counts from August 9th, from 4:00 i. through the control. we August 10th, through 5:00 i. MR, Ee : Now, we have reason to 00 MMM., the 10:00 J-., the :00 M., and the 5:00 ., none of them were condu Sth was not done, and b iu) ct on wv rt rt J cv) liev 0) 12:00 ct 7 o ies) ing that EFTA00126500

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 140 1 MR. QJ: 9 Okay. So -- 2 MR. a : Now, is there a way to 3 look at that, if there is someone, let’s say, 4 because at the 12:00 i. count, you’ll notice 5 there is a discrepancy There is one inmate 6 they’re off by. Control says, hey, you’re off ~] o fe) 5 0 wo oo a — aj aj vs) Q Ss ft Is there a way to kind of 10 look at these counts and notice, all right, 11 this would have been picked up then, or a way 2 to kind of tell that these weren’t conducted by 3 just looking at those documents, or noticing 4 if, you know, if Reyes is gone by 1:50, you 15 know -- 7 MR. ae : -- he’s released. I is] 8 there a way to tell that on there? 9 MR. a : Because you’ve got it right 20 here. 21 MR. QR: okay. 22 MR. a: This is the form right there. 23 This will tell you who the inmates are, out of 24 count 25 MR. QR: okay. EFTA00126501

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 141 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 MR. a: And that’s from Small. He was one of the receiving and discharged employees that was probably working on August > wo th. MR. QJ: Okay. MR. a: So, she would know who was still out at count. So, that means, Operations Lieutenant didn't even sign it. That’s a violation. MR. a : So, this document that you’re looking at, it looks like - what is it? - like, the third page on there? MR. a: Yeah. That they should have - because you’ve got right here. Clark. Unassigned work assignments. So, this inmate Clark. This saying he’s out at court. MR. ae : Okay. MR. QM: «So, he -- MR. QJ: Okay. MR. QJ: 9 -- so now, our count is minus one. But we know where he is because he’s still out at court. So, Reyes, that count - so, if he went out to court, let’s say we was at 88, let’s just say. When he went out to court, him and Clark went out, we would have EFTA00126502

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 142 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 went down to 86. But guess what? Reyes drops off the count. How? He got released. Where is the -- MR. a : So, if he was released -- MR. a: -- form that should have came from the Marshals back to us, saying that he got released. MR. a : So, between the 10:00 i. count and the 4:00 i. count, would there be a form in there showing that he was released? MR. a: There should have been. MR. a : Okay. MR. MJ: 9That should have been generated from the Marshals because it’s a transfer order. You heard of a transfer order? Every time an inmate goes off, if you’ve got ten that went out to court that day, that’s that transfer order. Whatever the disposition of those inmates are, okay, boom, ten went out to count, eight coming back. Okay, where are the other two? Okay. I got this guy that’s still out of counted, and he’s at court. He’s still at whatever, at this timeframe. Where is Reyes? There should have been a transfer EFTA00126503

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 143 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 receipt signed by the Marshals by the staff that was at the New York court over there, the people that handle the inmates, that transfer order should have been sent back with whoever was transporting the inmates, and brought back to the institution to say that this guy never came back. MR. a : So, that third page that you’re saying, though, that that was a violation that the Operations Lieutenant didn't sign? MR. QJ: «Right. MR. a : Would have that been Hs ©: «N|§.s 3} = cat time? MR. a: Because all of this stuff, it’s called a 30-day file. MR. ae : Okay. MR. a: So, what the Lieutenants are supposed to do on their shift, is supposed to, when they make rounds in Control, they’re suppose - because we’re supposed to take a count on every shift. Especially in the off- hours. So, before Epstein, that was a responsibility. On the off-hours, you will be responsible for taking the count. So, that EFTA00126504

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 144 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 evening watch guy would take that 10:00 count. Right? Or somebody would take the 4:00 count. So, the Operations Lieutenant or the Activities would normally go down and take the 4:00. They would go through the paperwork for that day, up to 4:00, and you would sign all of the forms. Like, if somebody checked out keys, restricted key forms, Operations is supposed to sign it. MR. SR: r-on. MR. a: If a transfer order receipts comes back, you’re supposed to sign it. Whatever happens on that shift, you’re supposed to sign the count slips. That form, right here? That should have been signed by the Lieutenant. MR. Ee : Okay. So, these forms that we’re looking at 4:00 .. there is a number of signatures that are missing? MR. QJ: = Yeah. MR. a : And should have that been the Lieutenant, as in - it looks like a. or -? MR. a: Official preparing count, official taking count. Those are going to be - so, the person that was taking that count would EFTA00126505

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 145 1 have been the OIC, then the person who actually 2 was there as a Lieutenant that was taking the 3 count, normally we would sign it in red. 4 MR. a : Now, the Lieutenant, when 5 you say they’re there, aren't they in the 6 Control Center? 7 MR. a : They’re in the Control Center 8 -- wo a And then, the SHU calls - 10 11 MR. a: -- while the Officers are 2 doing the count. 3 MR. a : Okay. So, the SHU calls 4 in, says, we got the count, 72, 73, 74, 15 whatever it is. 16 MR. J: 9 vm-hon.. 7 MR. ae : And in this case, when 8 you look at the 4:00 i. though, you’re seeing 9 that there was no Lieutenant that signed off on 20 that? 21 MR. GJ: No. 22 MR. ae : So, on the fir 23 well as the third page, was where they should 7] t page, a 7] 24 have signed? 25 MR. QJ: 9 Right. EFTA00126506

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LIMITED ies) w wo i=) nN ive) oO co wo OFFICIAL USE 146 MR. Ee : All right. And then -. MR. a: Yeah, because I got a - look - I got a signature for this one, that was approved by the Operations Lieutenant right MR. a : And who was that? MR. ae: That’s - I don't know who MR. a : All right. It looks like ty, is that what going to be 4:00 .. hat Lieutenant MR. a : Okay. Can we go to the SHU count slips themselves? And that should be MR. a : See, yup. Those are the inmates that went to the Attorney iting. So, those three would have been on the count -- MR. I: vn-hmn. MR. a: -- slip. Now, you said MR. a : The very last page. It’s, like, the actual slips. EFTA00126507

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. QJ: hes 2 MR. a: 3 slips that the actual 4 are in the SHU. C 5 it, or circle it, 6 that would have been =) i Okay e? Yup. SHU or whatever, t 147 So, these are the for the ones that Can you just put an initial by which ones it is conducted at the SHU? hink it’s Zulu 8 Bravo Zulu Alpha. 9 MR a : So, ZA and ZB are the two 10 SHUs 11 MR. BJ: 9 Yes. 2 MR. a : Are there any more than 3 that? 4 MR. a: You have - so, that’s - 15 you’ve got Food Service. GS, (Indiscernible 16 *00:12:11) Attorney visiting. That’s Kilo 7 India. That’s court. Kilo Zulu. Yes So, 8 Zulu Alpha would have been that, and then, that 9 would have been Ten South. 20 MR. QJ: «411 right. So, Ten 21 South. 22 MR. a: Charlie Alpha. Charlie 23 Alpha. 24 MR. a : But no, just specific to 25 the SHU. Like, where? Not - I don't know if EFTA00126508

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 148 ioe) io ioe) oO oo 19 is considered SHU, but | | just ecific to, like, where Epstein was, in the SHU. Like, who, you know, the -- @ would have been the Zulu Bravo and the Zulu MR. a : All right. Great. And able to tell me who all are on those MR. ae: And that would have been for MR. a : All right. for the 4:00 count. total SHU. EFTA00126509

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE 1493 MR. a: And then, then you had the inmates that were up on Ten South. MR. a : Okay. So, the ZB, is that Ten South, then? MR. QM: 411 right. ed by who? MR. a : Now, if that count wasn’t actually conducted, are they the only two that t, or would re responsible for falsifying th wu o the other people -? MR. ae: This would be the whole Unit. It would be -- MR. a : The whole Unit. MR. a : -- the OIC, everybody that was in the Unit. MR. a: Because EFTA00126510

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 150 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 of. MR. a : Okay. MR. a: You know what | | saying? So, they feed us, they feed the ranges. They monitor the ranges by doing the 30-minute rounds. So, the OIC has the key. So, those other three staff - the number two, the three, and the four, I believe - they’re supposed to do rounds, feed, do - issue cosmetics - do whatever they need to do as far as the normal operations inside the unit. So, if nobody counted, that means who count, who help assist in counting in Ten South? For the five guys. MR. QJ: Right. MR. a: Because I believe the Lieutenant is supposed to come up. Normally, the Activities will go up, I believe, and do the count in Zulu Bravo. So, that means that one of the Lieutenants would be up in the unit when the count was going on. MR. a : So, in this case, a Lieutenant should have actually been present? MR. a: Yeah. MR. a : Which Lieutenant on that date would that have been? EFTA00126511

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LIMITED ies) w co io ioe) co its) OFFICIAL USE 151 MR. a: So, that would have been -- MR. a : That was the MR. ae : -- that would hav MR. ae: -- so, Fd probably took t. And then, R. | - or Ms. a. fF would h doing the cc in Ten South, unt in Ten South, I beli could remember. It’s been a while. Fs tw secause it’s only per - Ms. | should or the count at 4:00 i. use || looking, uth number one was ia. had Ten South number two was G. a. So, | probably was up there doing property. MR. ae : Now, is this only for the been a Lieutenant, four, or should there ha EFTA00126512

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LIMITED ioe) io ioe) oO oo wo No Wa OFFICIAL USE MR. What is the first 152 c would work at that point? I think he you know, that - don’t i) because I that means So So, overtime. think he EFTA00126513

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No N N ion) OFFICIAL USE 1 ow ios) | | probably came in late. MR. a : Okay. MR. ae : So, FT probably did the count because || didn't get there. And now, he was notorious for that. MR. BJ: wc. BB a good g had some health problems, and maybe he didn't get there on time. So, Ft went on ah d at 4:00, he but he start @ probably went ahead and did the count. MR. a : All right. And are you able to tell on that, does this have a time for when the count was supposedly conducted? MR. a: It’s all of them going to though, the one for the overall SHU, that would have been - you said - is that a (Indiscernible *00:17:15), or are you just telling that’s for the Ten South? MR. ae: Overall SHU would ! EFTA00126514

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LIMITED ioe) w io ioe) © OFFICIAL Zulu that? | | would tf been the USE 154 Alpha. MR. QM: |S Yeah, and who was on w that did the but what you’ re was have doing rounds and MR. Ee : That it wasn’t conducted. hey, we fed them, that’s how we did guidance out -- EFTA00126515

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 155 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 talked about the timeframe that goes between the 30-minute rounds. So, like, let’s say it’s 11:00. You should do a round somewhere between 11:00 and 11:30. You understand? MR. a : Yup. MR. a: If it’s done at 11:29, that’s fine. But you should be doing it within that 30-minutes because it has to be irregular. So, you can't put on there and said, I did rounds at 11:00, 11:30. MR. QJ: 12:00. MR. a: 12:00, 12:30. You know, you can't do it like that. So, let’s say, you know, you’re feeding up there, you’re up t here feeding, but that round is not going to be - because you’re not monitoring, you're doing a service. Just because you’re on the range, that means you did a round. A round is physically stopping what you’re doing. So, if | | feeding during the time it’s supposed to, | | supposed to do a round, secure the slot, I go to the beginning of the range. One, two, five, seven, nine, 11, whatever, whatever, whatever. Document the time I did the round. Then go back to feeding. It’s not while | | up EFTA00126516

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 156 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 there. Okay, I’11l feed the range, it took me seven minutes, 7.9 seconds to feed a round. And so, that’s telling me that you did a regular round for a hour, one hour, because you was up there for 45 minutes? No. Did you doa round? MR. QJ: Right. MR. a: Did you - can I physically watch you go from cell to cell? That’s a round. MR. a : But what about - so, can a round can't be a count - but can a count be a round? MR. GR: = No. MR. QJ: So, every 30 minutes, if you’re doing a count at 4:00, you also have to do a round at 4:00? MR. a: Yup. MR. a : Okay. MR. a: Because if I go up there at 4:00, if I go - let’s say I start 4:00. At 4:00, that’s going to be that round. You understand what || saying? Because count, || taking accountability of the unit, so, if it takes probably two or three minutes a count, that would be 4:03 that I count in that range. EFTA00126517

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 157 1 I go to the next range. | | done at 4:09. 2 4:16. 4:20. 4:27. Guess what? Between that Ww Ww °o ct 12] Oo 2° H Q oO ct to go do another round, in 4 between that timeframe, not to exceed 40 w 3 p 5 c ct 0] tH | T mw rt n the policy. 6 MR. a : Okay. Do you know anything about the SHU not conducting rounds? 8 MR. a: Do I know of SHU not rs) a 12] 5 a Cc a rt pe o a H O co 3 Q fr] 10 MR. a : If the personnel in the w of anything about that, of Nm ct og ® =| ' ¥ ive) ye never known that MR. a: I would h 4 those staff were not - because again, tha -F not my purview. f fo] Fs 7) i= K o 7 MR. a: To sit down there and monitor ie] | ! oO a oO ' I 20 MR. a: -- rounds. 21 MR. ae : -- I just mean, like, had 24 MR. a : -- told you this? 25 MR. ae: No. I would have never known EFTA00126518

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 158 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 until after the Epstein thing, we had to monitor the camera footage of what the SHU staff did, and I was appalled to what they were doing on the off-hours. MR. a : So now, after the fact, are you aware if any of these counts were conducted or not conducted? MR. a: I was not made aware that no count was conducted because I do not monitor camera footage of the staff -- MR. a : No, || saying after -- MR. a: -- so, I wouldn’t know. MR. a : -- no, || saying after the fact. So now. MR. a: Now, I know, and I was - and again, when I had to monitor the footage per the new directive that was put out for the Central Office, and the Captain would have to monitor X amount of hours of SHU footage per week? Even after we had the situation with Epstein, staff wasn’t still doing it right. MR. a : But in the - what || asking is - in those instances, do you know if the 4:00, the 10:00, the 5:00, on these August 9th and August 10th, do you -- EFTA00126519

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 1 w ite) MR. a: I would have thought they would have been done. MR. a : -- but do you - now - do you know if they were or they weren’t? MR. a: I was told that they were not MR. a: I was told that the Officers that were ass did not do roun into that Unit until the time that they found inmate Epstein deceased in the cell. MR. a : That, I think what you’re referring to is the August 10th -- MR. a: August 9th. I would have not MR. Ee : No, no, no, no. Now. HMM talking about. MR. ae: Now, | | aware of it. Because if the inmate didn't come back hh ns om court, how did you clear court? MR. a : And did you know that prior to this conversation, though? Have you EFTA00126520

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE 1] ver -- 160 So, this is all new to me. So, you didn't - you had never heard, up until this date, tha it’s possible that the 4:00 i. were not conducted? Did you - what if I told you ct Dy 0] K 1) = wu i] wu 3 i) =} oO = K B ct rt ) ro] oO ke Oo Ph Hh B aQ i] KH MR. about it? Hmm. Didn't know anything So, no one made aware EFTA00126521

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 161 ~] wo 10 11 MR. a: Nope. So, 1:50. If they knew that he was - like, I remember, I told you - that it comes out automatically, from R&D. It says, the X, Y, Z inmate won't be returning, so he needs to bring his belongings to court line. So, if they knew he was WAB, who informed him? Because I bet you, I can guarantee, on that Sentry paperwork, that was generated that morning, that night - so, that would have been the 7th, because it’s generated on the 7th for the 8th - no, the 8th for the 9th, I know it didn't have WAB on it. MR. a: Okay. So, my question -- MR. ae : What does WAB stand for? MR. a: -- With All Belongings. MR. a: That’s what you would -- MR. QJ: «9 -- wap stands for With All Belongings. Right? MR. QR: Ss ves. MR. a: So, and here’s my question for you. If Officer PY Was aware of that MR. QJ: 9 vm-hon. EFTA00126522

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. QE: 162 -- he would be made aware by 2 who? 3 MR a: He would have been made by 4 R&D staff 5 MR. a: Who was the R&D staff that 6 day? 7 MR. a: Well, the only one I could - 8 because he’s not on our roster, he’s not 9 Correctional Services - I can only go by this. 10 MR. a: And who is that? 11 MR. QJ: 9s. small. 12 MR. a: Ms. Small. Okay. 3 MR. a: But I can tell you Ms. Small, 14 she works from - I think her end shift is 15 10:00. So, that means she would have been 16 there around 2:00, because I think she worked L7 2:00 to 10:00. I don’t think - on the weekends 8 - I don’t think the R&D staff stayed past 9 10:00, past 10:00. You understand what | | 20 saying? 21 MR. QJ: 9 okay. 22 MR. a: So, they didn't stay past 23 10:00 24 MR a: So, my question is, if R&D 25 knew, should that Control document - on the EFTA00126523

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ~] wo 10 11 163 first page - should that have been updated by then? mR. QM: ss vup. This £-1 -- MR. QJ: = so, is that -- MR. QJ: 9 -- this £-1 should have - this is not a correct E-l. MR. a: So, the E-1 is wrong? So, that point, that 4:00 i. count, that out - what is that? The last column, what does tha MR. a: Which one, sir? MR. a: The out count. The out co shouldn’t have shown 1:00 for the SHU. MR. a: Right. Because it would h said 2:00. You know what | | saying? Becaus that means that out count from the SHU was Jeffrey Epstein. MR. a: If you look at it, is the Epstein popping up on another column over there? Under attorney visit. MR. a: It should have been on -- MR. a: Is there an Attorney -? MR. a: -- Attorney visiting. MR. a: Is he on there? On Attorne visiting. At - check the first or second at t unt ave e y EFTA00126524

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 164 1 column. 2 MR. a: Okay. Let’s see. ies) ve. GJ: ts 4 MR. QJ: 9 Okay. ATTY on 6 vn. SR: one right here. w it. J :) > there one that for a second? 8 MR. a: Oh, || sorry. || sorry. 9 MR. a : I pointed to the first column 10 that said it. 11 MR. a: Okay. || sorry. Yes. It 2 shows that there was a total on the - a total 3 of three inmates that was out at Attorney, and 4 out at Attorney visiting, during the 4:00 a. 15 count. 16 MR. ae: And one of them, did one of 7 those inmates belong to the SHU? 8 MR. a : One of those was Zulu Alpha. 9 MR. QJ: 9 Okay. 20 MR. QJ: 9 Correct. 21 MR. ae: And then, at that point, they 22 also - for Zulu Alpha - they’re showing that 23 one inmate was for - is still on out count, 24 which means possibly, that it’s mentioning 25 Efrain Reyes, then? EFTA00126525

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 165 ies) i -- the last column, it says 4 out count, it still says 1:00 for Zulu Alpha. wi aw So, it should have been then, being the fact that this is te) F 4 7 oO A un should have been updated 10 by then, because they got a notification at N Fs Correct. ive) a) So, that E-1 document is Right. Now, if | told 7 Officers i. a. and | that inmate eyes wasn’t going WAB, and that Epstein would t oO Fs ie] si 9 need to be assigned a cell mate upon arrival 20 from his Attorney visit -- wu B- 4K Yes, -- Reyes h i) n to communicate 23 where - who dropped the ball, and at that 24 point? rt) ial) a o I mean, for the fot al iNT k EFTA00126526

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 166 1 of time, what we talked about before is, that N 3 nean “ they would notify by me that he needed a ies) cell mate? MR. a: They knew. They knew the 6 expectation. w that, at 1: 8 means you should wo contacted the Operations Lieutenant. 10 MR. a : And we discussed this. N Fs ive) a) r oy ct w bh 0 A ra] o Oo c ct p- Hh ct om o het QQ pb o. rr a i) ct ct Z oO het bh oO “t 7 know, || is the one who dropped the ball. Lee) 5 Mm-hmm. 20 MR. Ee : The next people that 21 would have done it would have been at th wo 5 oO 22 e of count. They 23 ied the Operations -- 24 25 Lieutenant at the same EFTA00126527

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 167 1 time. ies) a Correct. All right. And 4 what you’re saying, though, is - I think what 5 you said, though, is during the morning shift, .. or I think 6 the zero dark hundred to Oo [es] m3 a « it] Lv H + ts) - un nt i=) wouldn't have known. wouldn't have known. 2 MR. a : Right. Because they -- 7 wouldn't have known. 4 MR. ae : -- because if the counts 5 weren’t done at 4:00 i. and 10:00 .. they wouldn't have necessarily known. 7 MR. QE: know. 9 MR. Ee : But what about, like, if tion at 12:00 J. with the ive) Fs) oO wouldn't necessarily co 20 they had a conver 21 Ops Lieutenant about the fact that the counts 22 are off, re-do - or was it 10:00 i. 23 MR. a: It’s midnight. 24 MR. a : The midnight one was the 25 one where the count is -- EFTA00126528

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LIMITED ies) co io ioe) co OFFICIAL USE MR. count. now -- What? (Indiscernible *00:28:37). oo /10. And she from MR a: So, she wasn’t (Indiscernible *00:28:41) ve. a: So, we’re talking about going to be - so, this 003517 hour On August 10th? And this that there’s MR. ae: Can you On 10th. August 72 inmates in counts worked 10:00 i. EFTA00126529

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LIMITED ies) w fos) ive) oO oo OFFICIAL USE 169 for that day? econd ming you’re looking for ild MR. a : And then, if so we know what we’re looking ue. i n says was 72, correct? MR. a: That is correct. MR. a : Okay. Do you want to follow up? and the Lieutenant caught onto the a mistake with mistake, what was th i) I i 5 And the quota was the protocols? MR. a: = -- EFTA00126530

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 170 1 MR. a: All right. This is what 2 happened. So, if | | the Officers, I count, I ies) count the Unit, and they say 73. The Control 4 Center would have been, like, no, bad count. w 4 a oO het 6 oO o Oo ct a Oo p. =] QQ +t O ct o ra b ke Oo c 5 wu ct ke Oo c Q Oo £ 5 + oO Q you count again. So, the procedure is, once that bad count has been made the Control Center notifies the Les] =] is) ct bh Hh k o o 9 enant, and the Lieutenant is supposed to 10 go up to the rve the Wa N ry rr fe) a] | i | n 18] if the Ops 4 Lieutenant - in this case, i a -- Ee : -- should hav 7 MR. a: Should have went to the -- -- and observed. 9 MR. a : -- went to SHU, to observe f Co 5 Lee) 5 No n i] 4 3 wu “t n ct .) @ ? ie) aa Bb aQ ke EFTA00126531

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 171 MR. a: So, you tairs -. Well, Q 12] is ue] 77] ies) | | sorry. That’s the expectation. 4 MR. a : So, expectation, not I 5 policy 6 MR can't - | | not going to 7 sit up here and quote policy when I don’t know 8 it verbatim wo F Absolutely. 10 MR. a: But I will tell you the 11 expectation is that Supervisor - Correctional 2 Services - a Lieutenant, on an announcement of 3 a bad count will go to the area of the count, 4 and will observe the said count. 15 MR a : What if the Supervisor 16 claims that, when they called in the count, and they said 73, they said, hey, we’re calling in 8 73, but we know we’re off by one? Does that 9 make any sense? 20 MR. QJ: That doesn't. That means the 21 institutions count is going to be bad, which -- 22 MR. ae : And then, then that -- EFTA00126532

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 172 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a: -- besides the inmate - it’s three things - an inmate died, your count being off, or an inmate escaping. Those are the big things right there. If your count is bad - because that’s what we get paid to do - we’re the masters of count, that’s what we do, accountability of inmates, in a Correctional setting. That’s what you do. That’s what you’re paid for. So, you call me, as a Lieutenant, and you tell me, hey, LT., we keep counting the unit, and the unit, and the count is bad. So, the next thing | | going to tell you, give me some staff up there. I want a standup bed book. MR. a : So, if they say that -- MR. a: -- so then, || going to identify each inmate by their face, and their cell assignment, to get the count. MR. Ee : So, what if they say, we're off by one, but we know where that one is? That one is over there. And then, the Lieutenant responds -- MR. a: But they know -- MR. a : -- all right, | | going to go verify where that one staff is, you redo EFTA00126533

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 173 1 the count. Would that make sense? 2 MR. a: No. What || telling you is was supposed to have been done. a: Because -. So, even if they said, Ww s © 5 } rr w es) oO a 7 like, hey, we wrote down 73, but that - so, 8 let’s say a. who is not a typical SHU guy- 9 he’s the one that calls this in. He says, I 10 wrote down 73 on the count slip, but that’s 11 because one our guys that we’re counting for is 2 over at -- ive) id a Re Oo 7 Lieutenant then says, || going to go verify 8 that that person is there, you reconduct the 9 count, and create a new count slip. 20 MR. QJ: Okay. So, it was one RA - I 21 believe that’s R&D. RA, I believe, is R&D. 22 Right? No. So, in R&D, there was nobody in 23 R&D. There’s no one -- -- there’s no one in R&D. 24 MR. a : So, what if the -. 5 7 EFTA00126534

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 174 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 So, the policy is, the Lieutenant is on there, | | going to watch you do it, and so, that’s the second count. The third count is the standing bed book count. That I used the bed book cards, and I go cell by cell, and I make the inmates say their name and number, and I physically identify them by their face. MR. QJ: 411 right. MR. a: If that don’t work, all of this stuff is supposed to be annotated in the log, that bad count one, bad count two, SHU reports bad count three. Bed book count was identified. The next thing would have been, was to go back through the prior counts to see of the movement, of who was in or out, because if your count cleared here, at 10:00, you only had one out of the unit, which was Epstein. When he came back, that means your count should have went from - if it was 72 here - that’s telling me that it must have been 71. At - boom. So, it was 76 -- MR. a : Is that the 4:00 i. count? MR. a: -- yeah. It was 76. Then, at the 10:00 count, on the 9:30 count, it was 73. So, where did those three inmates go? EFTA00126535

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 175 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Where did those inmates go? So, somebody was in there messing with the numbers in order for the count to clear. MR. a : In order to find out where they went is it, we have to go into TRUSCOPE (Phonetic Sp. *00:34:52)? Is that where we would have to find -- MR. a: You would - you could go in the TRU - most - Sentry is supposed to be full- proof, all-proof. MR. a : Okay. So, Sentry. MR. a: But it’s only as good as the people that’s putting the information in there. MR. QJ: Sure. Sure. MR. a: Yeah. MR. Ee : And are the SHU the people that are putting the information in, or is it the Control Center? MR. a: So, this is what happens. In theory, you’ve got - when inmates come back from court, and they do the transfer orders, and it goes down to Control, R&D is supposed to update those inmates coming back in. Control Center gets the transfer order, and they’re verifying. Any time any internal movement is EFTA00126536

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 ~] wo 10 11 ~) on done inside of a unit, like SHU, the OIC is supposed to do it. If a Case Manager and Unit Manager, or a Counselor, moves the inmate on the unit, guess what? They’re supposed to make that Sentry - (Indiscernible *00:35:49) PP-34 transaction in Sentry to make the appropriate move MR. a : So, looking at these, do you believe that they’re all -- MR. SE: a MR. : through -. These all bad. -- they’re all bad? Mm-hmm. All. All of them? They’re all bad. All bogus. All right. MR. a: The Control Center, R&D. It’s bad. MR. QJ: 9 gust a clarifying question. Okay. Can a person do a count - let’s just say they know someone is in a different unit - can they say, oh, I know the person is out of the unit, and | | going to count them as part of my unit, and just give the count number. Are they EFTA00126537

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 177 1 allowed to do that, or -- 2 MR. GJ: 9 No. 3 MR. a: -- do they have to physically 4 have to get eyes on them? 5 MR. a : So, it’s only - who - the 6 amount of inmates that are in their unit at 7 that time. 8 MR. a: Correct. 9 MR. QR: Okay. 10 MR. QJ: 9 That’s it. 11 MR. a : All right. Let’s keep 12 going on this. Thank you for that. That’s 13 hugely helpful. So, “Inmates’ cell mates are 14 moved for various reasons, including but not 15 limited to an incident in the cell, visits to 16 court, legal library, medical, and recreation. 17 On Friday, August 9, 2019, Epstein’s cell mate, 18 Reyes, had court. It would not be uncommon for 19 Reyes to be out of his cell for an extended 20 period. Epstein had an Attorney session that 21 day. Epstein’s Attorney was processed into the 22 facility in the morning, and Epstein was 23 brought down to the Attorney room.” And you 24 said that that was pretty much seven days a 25 week? With Epstein. yo was not notified EFTA00126538

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 178 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that Reyes was released from court.” And again, on that note, would have been the Ops Lieutenant that would have been responsible to tell you, for instance -- MR. a: Yes. MR. a : -- if someone heard -- MR. a : If you would recall, he should have - because he know the - he knew the expectation. MR. QJ: Right. MR. a: So, by our previous conversation, they knew the expectation. But again, they chose not to follow the playbook. MR. QJ: Okay. “Typically, if an inmate is likely to be discharged or transferred following court, their property was retrieved from their cell, boxed and secured with a property form, by receiving and discharged staff. All items are normally accounted for, and inventoried. In order to enter the SHU, all staff not assigned there must identify themselves and sign a logbook, and then be physically escorted by a Correctional Officer. Alternatively, the staff can pick up inmate property at the Unit door. EFTA00126539

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 179 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Correctional Officer assigned to the SHU would have been aware that Reyes’ - or any inmates - belongings were removed. At this time, the Correctional Officer should notify a Lieutenant, who would in turn brief a. | was not notified that Reyes’ belongings were removed. | advised that if he had known that Epstein was without a cell mate, he would have likely put Epstein on psychological observation.” But now you’re saying you probably would have put him off -- MR. a: I would have not put him on psych obs, because I can’t. MR. QJ: | Right. You would have put him in Fox -? MR. a: I would have probably put him - if he was already - if I would have known, between those hours of 1:50 to 4:00, I would say, keep him in the Attorney conference, because guess what? I’ve got a staff member right there. And where he was, there’s a room here, so we normally kept him in these first two rooms. So, you could see him. So, I would just say, hey, just have somebody stay there, and I would have hired somebody. I would have EFTA00126540

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 180 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 hired anybody. I’11 pay you overtime to sit on this guy until I got him - I would have kept him in Attorney conference, right there - until I got him a cell mate. I wouldn't have had to put him on psych - you’re not - that’s not - I apologize - I can't do that. MR. a : All right. So, this line where you said you would have likely put him -- MR. GJ: No. MR. a : -- that’s not correct? MR. a: No, I wouldn’t have done that. MR. a : Okay. MR. QJ: 9 That’s - because like I said in my earlier statement - if it would have been after the hours of operation, let’s say everybody - at 8:00, when he went back to the cell in SHU, and because I was still there, I would have said, no, put him in R&D. Because I got R&D staff there until 10:00 MR. : e-hon. MR. a : I would have called the AW. I would have called the Warden. And unfortunately, we would have the - somebody would have to come in - and we would have been EFTA00126541

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LIMITED ioe) w io ioe) its) OFFICIAL USE 18 later than vetting a cell mate for him. property was moved. 5 5 ee) ay. Well, that may have. a] He may hav SD of & faa Oo (Dp - rh - o QO B es) 0 w on & c co 5] 2 im t - > i t rt vi) J D rt 0) Q f RR o to 5 = o rt t o ar a ke c MR. it was between from Lie the h 35 not aware of any Lieutenants knowing EFTA00126542

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 182 ies) w fos) wo ay. Yeah. Now, this 12 is, again, where || getting confused b 0] caus 0) th t Ww c 3 rt a tt) a] o Le] ie) RK ct to 10:00 i. shift on 14 worked c fee) ct om fu rt 7) worked 19 MR. a : No. He would have And did he work on August we -- EFTA00126543

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LIMITED No No i) ies) w co ioe) co its) ion) OFFICIAL USE 183 MR. Ee : -- I thought we said on he didn't work. All right. it’s supposedly -- So, from 4:00 i. to 10:00 .. who was there? a: MR. a : Yeah. But, like, this thing, non-custody, can I school something. you printed this roster? You printed this EFTA00126544

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 184 1 don’t look like this back on the day the roster 2 was printed, initially inputted. MR. a : So, someone would have 4 changed it? ies) wi aw Somebody went in here and ie] | 2 id Ao) 2 A H a wu 3 + i] c b O c | | 1 the other was inaccurate? nN | | ct a bh e) B it B 5 fu a a G i fu ct i) H Q wu 3 ive) fea) ie) = W§.sstemp prompted him to 11. I 7 temp promote him to 11. co MR. a : Can you circle that? 20 in the institution by himself. 21 MR. ae : So, you think that he 22 went in there and put in that (Indiscernible uldn’t have been 24 MR. a : | | not going to say that. s not what -- EFTA00126545

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 185 w ~] wo 10 11 MR. QJ: 9 But what 1 will -- MR. a : -- what it normally would say? MR. a : No. Because he become non- custody until, I think it was when he got out of non-custody and became a Counselor, I believe that wasn’t until 2020. Not 2020. I think it was the last part of ‘19, going into ‘20, or something like that. He was still on Correctional Services. But the thing about this roster, all of time you make a change, it tells you the date and time of the change. So, let’s go here. Time change. Activities Lieutenant R. a. That was done on 08/09, C.P., who - you’ve got to find out who C.P. was. MR. QJ: Bot 08/09. That was prior to the incident. MR. QJ: 908/09, 09. 08/09. That was done in 9:09 J. MR. a : (Indiscernible *00:43:13). MR. a: The Ops Lieutenant. It was a. So, | took sick leave on that day, and -- these pages right here, any EFTA00126546

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 18 fen) on the roster on 0 It’s not MR. Ee : Oh, and it would have. So, somebody went in, at some point, and put - that somebody I had nothing to Bs HH mw] a =] ct b =] ie] c a i ie) Q to wu rt time. He put me in there because, you know, MR. ae: -- go through it. EFTA00126547

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 187 MR. Ee : But that’s something that we should address with a: MR. ae : That’s something you’ve got to do, from the time you printed one - look, when you printed one of these rosters, right? I can guarant packet, and print out the roster for 0 08/10 of 2019, it’s not going to mirror the same. It’s going to be changed. It’s not going to be the same. MR. Ee : And do we h ability to do that? Fs) n i laf o ct 7) > oO G ~ QQ o oO b- 3 t (D wn és) Lo J 0) wi co lo mH oO BK ct om 0) Bb 5 ie] pb Q =] rt | | Fs 4 Hi ie) © I | I | | t a fu t 12) QO ie] RK kK © Q Mm-hmm. You understand? 5 t will have t K 12) w rt o 5 b. rt 7 oO K o " * fe) K K GY co oO re] Hh Hh K ci) Me \ | EFTA00126548

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 C co Mm-hmm. MR. ae : -- incident. 3 ral ioe) should be in there. io up to - so, just to ioe) that morning, at 8:58 that time, it was t o Bs lied in and fF fos) | 19 August 9th, I wonder 23 Sorry 24 25 MR. ae: That C.P., can EFTA00126549

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LIMITED ioe) io ioe) oO oo OFFICIAL USE 189 C.P., or it’s what it was in the system? MR. And we did know that. this. This i i) 0 3 MR. MR. a] Because when you log-in the program -- ‘ Fs) \ \ B ct if] MR. : Thank All right. And it who did MR. a : It says, yo did not EFTA00126550

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 190 1 aware because he had informed his Lieutenants 2 repeatedly, and instructed them to pass this 3 message along, and convey the information among 4 themselves.” Is that correct? 5 MR. QJ: 9 ves. 6 MR. E:T «ii not hold a 7 formal all Lieutenants meeting regarding 8 Epstein, or send an all staff e-mail with the 9 Warden’s directive.” 10 MR. QJ: 9 vm-hon. 11 MR. Ee : However, you did send 2 emails with regard to -- 3 MR. QJ: Yes. 4 MR. ae : -- the way that they were 5 supposed to act, and their duties and 16 responsibilities. 7 MR. a: Correct. a : And you’ll send me that? Lee) 5 20 MR. QJ: Okay. “we verbally tructed his Lieutenants on an informal and 22 individual basis, as many as sible with whom 23 he had the opportunity. On Saturday morning, 24 August 10, 2019, | was relived early by 25 ia.’ Now, as far as fe goes - EFTA00126551

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 191 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 a - her claiming she didn't - if she’s claiming she didn't know, and if you didn't specifically tell her, who should have told her? Or how should have she known? MR. a: How she would have known is, is that, when she did rounds, she would have saw those cards. MR. a : No, no, no. Okay. So -- MR. a: She would have known that these inmates are high visibility. And the guidance was already out, so, it was disseminating throughout the Unit. So, the staff was aware. So, of course, probably in, you know, with her, we didn't have a good relationship, but regardless of the fact is, is that I made the Lieutenants aware of my expectations. MR. QR: e-on. MR. a: So, even though I might not have told her because she worked the morning watch shift, and by 6:00, she would be gone. I wouldn’t see her. MR. a : Now, was that abnormal for her to leave before 6:00, before her shift is done? EFTA00126552

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 1 MR. a: They was working 10:00 to wo i] 2 6:00 4 MR. ae: So, by the time I walked in 5 the door, she would be gone. 6 MR a : But what | | saying is, 7 if she’s leaving before 6:00, is that -? co Fs) Now, before 6:00, that would wo oO @ wu ue) 5 2) o pa @ 5 10 MR. a : So, even, like, ten 11 minutes before, is that a problem? 2 MR. ae: Not really. Ww 5 5 9° w z 4 MR. a: Not really. Because if the 15 relieving person gets there, because knowing 16 the Lieutenants, some Lieutenants come an hour 7 early. Some Lieutenants come ten, 15 minutes 8 early. It’s just whatever -- No i=) wo OD oO a fw he -- happens. Sometimes the 21 Lieutenant has to work late, because they h 22 an incident, or they have administrative duties 23 they have to finish after their shift, which is 24 fine, but they are compensated for that. 25 MR. QJ: «Right. okay. “In the EFTA00126553

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 193 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SHU, 30-minute rounds need to be completed consistently, at non-uniform intervals, within a 40-minute timeframe. The purpose of these rounds is to ensure that good order is being maintained, there is no suspicious activity, and all inmates are accounted for and responsive. 30-minute rounds are documenting in TRUSCOPE, which serves as an electronic logbook. After a round is physically done, the Correctional Officer can log into TRUSCOPE and press a button, certifying that the round was completed. Unfortunately, sometimes Officers do not complete a 30-minute round or exceed the 40-minute threshold. TRUSCOPE also documents from what location, terminal the rounds are logged.” MR. a : That’s right. MR. a : yo is aware of at least two terminals located in the SHU. The only way to determine if a 30-minute round was physically completed is to check the video surveillance footage.” MR. a: That is correct. MR. a : “There are two Correctional Officers assigned to the SHU on EFTA00126554

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 194 1 morning watch, at midnight. SHU One and SHU 2 Two. SHU Two is responsible for completing 3 rounds.” They’re both technically responsible. 4 Correct? MR. QJ: 9 Right. 6 MR. a : And so, is the SHU Two w 7 usually the Officer-in-Charge? 8 MR. a: Right. So, basically what 9 would have happened is, they’re supposed to, 10 you know, because one has the key. So, I doa 11 round, I come back, then you do a round. Same 2 thing when they do the count. 3 MR. a : Now, is it the same thing 4 with counts and rounds, like -- 15 MR. a: No, no, | | sorry, with the 16 count. 7 MR. ae : -- so, with a round, if 8 rounds aren't being conducted, does that also 9 mean that everybody in the Unit is to blame? 20 Not just -- 21 MR. QJ: 9s ves. 22 MR. ae : -- okay. 23 MR. a: Right, because -- 24 MR. a : So, it would be -- 25 MR. ae: -- because it, in essence, EFTA00126555

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 195 1 afterhours, that Lieutenant should go up there 2 and observe the count. 3 MR. a : No, but what | | saying 4 is, like, if a round is signed off on, by one 5 person, but everybody in the Unit, nobody in 6 the Unit did it, and not just the person who ~] signed the round, but also everyone else is 8 also responsible for that falsified round? 9 MR. QJ: 9 Right. 10 MR. QJ: okay. 11 MR. a: Everybody -- 2 MR. a : It’s the same thing for counts? 4 MR. a: -- yeah, it don’t matter. If ive) 15 you’re on the roster, and you’re assigned to 16 that Unit, and a falsified document goes up, 7 and you said, like, me and you count, I know we 8 didn't count, but I sign that, and you sign it 9 — 20 MR. J: 0, what J saying is -- 21 MR. ae: -- then we both -- 22 MR. ae : -- what | | saying is, if 23 you sign it, I don’t sign it, but we’re both 24 responsible? 25 MR. ae: Right. No. You’re going to EFTA00126556

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 196 b 0) responsible because you didn't sign it. But be rh I said, if I didn't sign it, then || going to tell you why. I said, we didn't do the count. | | going to put a memo in. MR. ae: | | going to let the Lieutenant know. It’s a big -- MR. QM: -- so -. ve. i: -- situation. MR. ae : But there’s four people working. people that aren't working, if they didn't ) ini HK o Q ct r two EFTA00126557

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 wo ~ S) b oO rr o un All right. Okay. ies) a And then, on the morning 4 watch, there’s only two people in the unit. w a Right. MR. ae: So, they’re both complicit. oO a aid bad 1) 8 count, Officer should come down. How often 9 should - I mean, a Lieutenant should come down 10 - how often should Lieutenants be observ 11 counts? 2 MR. ae: Okay. Okay. In the SHU. Let’s talk ive) Fs) 4 about specifically for the SHU. c uw a Well, in the SHU? In the SHU, 16 a Lieutenant should have been monitoring that - 7 I believe that Ten South count. 8 MR. a : Ten South. What about, 9 like, where Epstein was, in regular SHU? 20 MR. QJ: Well, no, but we didn't 21 implement that until after the Epstein 22 incident. 23 MR. a : All right. So, up to 24 August 10th, Lieutenants were not observing 25 counts -- EFTA00126558

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LIMITED ies) w co io ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 19 MR. a : -- they were simply taking the count -- MR. ae: Counting in Control. MR. QJ: -- in the Control Room. ma MR. : That is Control. That is about the camera ” Mr. Daniels -”, name? MR. ae: I can't remember his first name. MR. ae : Now, is he, like, a though? Or, like -- MR. a : No. He would be -- BOP emplc i} i} wu (Phonetic Sp. EFTA00126559

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] wo 10 11 ive) bR fe] \o MR. Ee : “The camera technician notified | that he was working on the system earlier that week, but | did not know specifics and was not informed that the cameras were not functioning. Since the -”, so, you didn't know that any of the TRU cameras may have been out? MR. GJ: No. MR. a : Okay. “Since the -”, and who would have been - was he the one responsible for that? MR. a: Yes. So -. MR. a : So, if he’s notified that the camera is now out, how soon thereafter should he get that up and running? MR. a: No. If he was aware that the camera system was down and was not working, he should have contacted me, and then, I would immediately contact the AW and the Warden because -- MR. a : And in this instance -- MR. a: -- that’s a Security situation. MR. a : -- so, in this instance, he didn't do that? EFTA00126560

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LIMITED ioe) io ioe) oO oo wo OFFICIAL USE 200 All right. And would own that a SHU camera was MR. a : He would be the MR. two people would have MR. QJ: | nd they did not? was down and EFTA00126561

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 201 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) even - that’s - I don’t remember. MR. a : Do you know if a camera in the SHU was ever down? MR. a : Okay. What camera? MR. ae: I know that there were issue i] with the cameras because we had done a program review before then, and there was cameras down in Ten South. So, we had got those fixed. You know, in the -- MR. SR: 9 e-hoon. MR. a : -- in the individual cells. MR. : «= xup. MR. a: And then, there was a camera system that was down because I believe they was doing some type of maintenance on the ranges, or something like that, that everyone was aware of. That’s all I can remember. MR. QJ: Okay. MR. QJ: 9 And I don’t remember specifics and timeframes, but -. MR. ae : All right. But you don’t know specifically if, like, for instance, the range that Epstein was on, that camera was out or not? EFTA00126562

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LIMITED OFFICIAL U I don't know that for - was, it would h Oo that one mor 0) 13 time? Oo Thank EFTA00126563

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 203 10 11 12 13 14 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 have happened. MR. QJ: «oh. MR. a: Right? I think that’s the date of (Indiscernible *00:55:07). MR. a : Well, no, it says, “Mr. Daniels, the Camera Technician, notified la that he was working on the system earlier that week.” He’s saying that he left early Thursday, when the discussion about the camera system would have occurred. MR. a: Would have. So, he should known -- MR. a : If there was a conversation. But you don’t know that there was? MR. EJ: No. MR. a: Okay. Sorry. MR. a: Because, like, in close out, or if there was something with the Warden that day, normally on Thursdays, at times, you know, it was for my - I have a disease. So, I would go for blood work on Thursdays, when I could, if an institution emergency, you know, but normally, on Thursday, I would leave early on Thursdays. I would take a half a day. EFTA00126564

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 204 2 MR. a: To go to my medical 3 appointments. So, if there was a meeting that 4 was convened about the camera systems, I wasn’t 5 present at that meeting. 6 MR. a : But whatever -- 7 MR. a : However, I know that a camera 8 project was going on during that time, which 9 Mr. Daniels was responsible for installing the 10 new - I don't know what - I can't remembering 11 what you call it - but it’s a system, because 2 our system was antiquated, so they was doing 3 camera repairs. So -- 4 MR. QR: Okay. 15 MR. a: -- there was certain cameras 16 down, in certain areas of the institution. But ~ he was actively working on that. 8 MR. a : Okay. 9 MR. BR: So. 20 MR. QJ: So, if there was a 21 meeting, that you are not aware of, on 22 Thursday, who would have been present for it? 23 MR. a: For a meeting with the 24 Warden? 25 MR. a : It would have been with EFTA00126565

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 205 1 the Warden? 2 MR. a: Yeah. It would have been - I 3 mean, the Warden would have known if someone 4 had a meeting about the camera system being 5 down, and then, probably the Facilities 6 Manager, which is a. It would have been 7 the AW of Custody, at that time, which would 8 have been Ms. ae . And of course, it 9 would have been the Warden. 10 MR. a : Didn't you say it was 11 actually somebody else? Po was no 2 longer the custody? 3 MR. a: Ms. Ha. Ms. || was 4 there, but she had just got there. So -- w 16 MR. ae: -- she was over another 7 discipline. So, that would have been the 8 meeting with the executive staff. 9 MR. Ee : Okay. So, it was the 20 executive staff meeting. Would that meeting 21 also have taken place if the cameras are still 22 down on Friday? Would it have taken place on 23 Friday, as well? 24 MR. a : That would have been Friday, 25 as well. EFTA00126566

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 206 1 MR. Ee : But you weren’t involved 2 with a meeting like that? MM: Xo. 4 MR. a : And you don’t know of a taking place? a: No. 7 MR. a : Okay. Would it have C ies) i Ww 3 oO oO ct Bb =] Q oO a 8 taken place every day that the camera was down, 9 or just the first day? 10 MR. a: There would have been an 11 update because the person that falls under 2 that, the contact, is a. So, the AW over 3 Facilities would have wanted an update, weekly 4 report, as well as the Captain. 16 MR. ae: Because that’s a Security 7 issue. So, we would have wanted - but the 8 tem was down because of - I think it 9 was some routine maintenance that they was 20 doing anyway. 23 MR. a : Now, would any 24 Lieutenants or SHU staff have known that the 25 camera was EFTA00126567

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LIMITED ies) w oO co io 3 3 OFFICIAL USE 207 have the ability to monitor. But, you know, of course, the 1iOW —- ana And do Q Oo 5 rt 5 ie] ct ion oO Cc Q a 0] en to date, ifa in fact, down? I I was just going to recording, do you know if it was, like, being a MR. ae : -- or it could have been. MR. a : But you’re unaware? MR. a : | | unaware, Okay. EFTA00126568

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) receiving the phone call from | | on the morning of Saturday, August 10, 2019, | notified Associate Warden, a. who informed the Warden. | also attempted to call Institution Duty Officer, FY a. MR. a : Yup. MR. a : To Chaplin, and in the building, to get more information.” What does ut that mean by, “In the building”? Do you know? MR. a: So, basically, you know, it was just -- MR. a : Like, the main number? MR. a: -- it was just a bunch of, you know, people that we tried to notify, I tried to notify. So, I think I notified Ms | siiS*d of course. She notifies the Warden. I notified the IDO. I said, hey, because inmate death, they needed me coming into the institution, because that’s one of their off times, so they needed to be making a - because they’re going to be responsible for making certain calls to the Region. I notified the Chaplin, because Chaplin made sure, (Indiscernible *00:59:19) also, I believe I 208 EFTA00126569

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 209 1 informed them to call Mr. Plord (Phonetic Sp 2 *00:59:25), which was the Executive Assistant. 3 I think Mr. Plord or I may have called Mr. 4 Johnson, the Attorney, for MCC. 6 MR. ae: And || trying to think who 7 else 8 MR. a : No, that’s fine. 9 MR. a : Was there. 10 MR. a : And it says that, “He 11 went to the MCC, arriving before 8:00 .. 2 approximately.” 3 MR. GR: 0 r-hon. 15 screened in and retrieved his gear from the 16 third floor. He went to the SHU and signed the 7 logbook. He gathered any records pertaining to 8 Epstein, including the 30-minute round logbook, 9 the Attorney conference logbook, count slips, 20 and E-ls.” What are E-1ls? 21 MR. QJ: «So, all this stuff right 22 here. 23 MR. a : Okay. 24 MR. a : So, you basically, I walk 25 through the building, I know the protocol, EFTA00126570

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 210 w ~] wo 10 11 because what happens is, these things will come up missing, then you have no evidence. MR. a : So, I secured count slip ifs) , the E-ls. I went to SHU. I got all of the logbooks that I knew where Epstein had been. I grabbed those logbooks. I went to SHU. I took his inmate SHU file from the Special Housing, plus all of the round sheets (Indiscernible *01:00:34). MR. a : This actually says “He could not locate Epstein’s inmate file.” Do you remember that? MR. a: It was a file, but it had limited stuff in there. MR. QM: okay. MR. a: So, his actual file, yeah, it had his picture, had a couple things on there, but it wasn’t anything in it. MR. QJ: So, when this says, “Not locate a file,” you located the file, it was just a -- MR. a: It was empty. MR. a : -- it was empty. And is that abnormal? EFTA00126571

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 211 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 MR. a: No. It is not normal. MR. a : Oh, it’s not normal? MR. a: It’s not normal. No. MR. a : And do you think that somebody removed things from it? MR. a: No, || not going to make that accusation. I don't know. I would just say, that’s not a normal instances, that being working as a former OIC, being a Correctional Officer, and all of that stuff, that’s not normal. MR. a : What stuff is usually in there? MR. a: I can tell you, it would be his - all of the intake screening stuff that we do on the inmates, the expectations, the cell assignment things that the inmate is supposed to sign, the clothing issue forms. It would be 292s in there. It would be - the SROs. It wu would also be the Psychology, where Psychology comes to see these guys, that those notes should be placed in there. MR. a : And none of that was in there? MR. a: None of that was in there. EFTA00126572

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LIMITED ies) co io ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 212 MR. Ee : And where is that file be located “The OIC,” MR. a : And had you ever seen the MR. ae: I would - no. MR. Ee : Did you e er locate it MR. Ee : So, it’s likely that been in there and th EFTA00126573

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LIMITED ioe) w io ioe) its) OFFICIAL USE 21 MR. MR. - who did it, but someone likely did? MR. ct reason why they would MR. a: I don't know, sir. right. But you That was -- MR. a : And who would be the -. MR. a: -- that wouldn’t be my to audit those files. MR. a : Who would be -- MR. a: That would have been the Or the Lieutenant -- uld have been the one MR. EJ: -- he EFTA00126574

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 214 1 that would have audited those files. Because they do the SRO 4 MR. a : And did you ask him where J 77) ies) a Ww ct Ss oO Hh be bh oO = wu i oO a Of course. I called him. 7 MR. a : And what did he say? He didn't know. He had no co Fs) wo knowledge. MR. QJ: «811 right. so, he 11 claimed he doesn't know -- 2 MR. QJ: 9 Right. a : -- anything about it. 4 MR. a: Because -. i=) ive) a) 15 MR a : Did he ever say he looked 16 at the file before? 7 MR. a: No. No. I don’t remember 8 him that. But when I called him that 9 Saturday, because I had conversations with 20 Lieutenant JJ on that Saturday and that 21 Sunday, because he was supposed to come to work 22 that Sunday. So, once he found out about the 23 situation with Epstein, because I had called 24 him, and I said, hey, man, where is his inmate 25 file? What are you talking about? I said, his EFTA00126575

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE wm I G fh call tha ile is t he 1 of not up what happened. broke his leg. Lieutenant | | was out for, like, trai wouldn’t know. he was ning, like I said, was there. xX, Y, 2Z. And did he really bre supposed right? very six months. to That - month. in military EFTA00126576

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 21 C 1 training. So, he tells me they’re doing the PT 2 th 7] t next day, which was Sunday, he broke his WwW k o 4 MR. a : Did he ever provide any w tam b- 5 jen is) Fh i} i} 6 MR. ae: Or he injured his leg. 7 MR. a : -- did he ever provide 8 any documentation? oO a Hmm-mm. 10 MR. QJ: «No? 11 MR. a: Hmm. He did prov but it was from a a. I mean, and that was sent through - he provided nN i) 2) a i) ct a p- 5 .Q ive) 4 documentation, but -- MR. BJ: -- I can't - I don’t - 3 7 not a FY - so, I can't tell you what it is, oO 8 and || not going to call the | to verify 9 if that was the situation, but basically, it 20 said that he had a substantial leg injury that 21 prevented him from coming to work. 22 MR. ae : So, have you had any 24 MR. a : Oh, he came back - so then, 25 so | | went out in August - September, EFTA00126577

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 2 October, November, December - I think he came back either December or January. MR. a: Somewhere in that timeframe. MR. a: So, he came back. And he went back up to SHU as the OIC. MR. a : And ever any conversations about this matter? MR. a: I had discussed it with him MR. Ee : And tell me about those MR. a : Those discussion. So, basically, I asked him about the inmate file. I had talked to him about, that Sunday, he he came alerted me that he was injured. back, we had discussions that the staff, when he would - me and | | were - I go - I would say out of all the Lieutenants - me and ia. we spoke a lot. I thought very highly of him. EFTA00126578

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 218 w ~] ive) And he would talk, and he was saying that he was having difficulties with the staff, and his other peers, because he, you know, the appearance was that he faked the injury, and -- MR. a : Oh, so there was rumor -- MR. a: -- and not to be a part of what everybody else was going through, during that Epstein situation. So, he was getting it from the Lieutenants, and he was also getting it from the line staff. MR. Ee : Okay. So, on him, is there anything that you know - I know he wasn’t there those days - but if there’s anything there that he did wrong? MR. a: Hmm. What - | | being wrong, || not going to say he did something wrong or purposeful, you know, to say that, you know, to cause the death of inmate Epstein. Of course not. | | not going to say that. MR. QJ: Yeah, and Qf not saying that. | | just saying -- MR. a: But || saying -- MR. QM: -- it’s, like -. MR. a: -- this is, in my opinion, if MMM oa third party, if JM a third party - and EFTA00126579

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 219 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 | | going to be honest - if | | a third party, looking at this, somebody would say, || wrong. They would say, you failed to supervise your staff. You should have been auditing all of the paperwork. You should have been more responsive, or you should have been more responsible, and been in the unit more. You should have done more rounds. You should have did more training. You understand what | | saying? MR. a : Sure. MR. a: But guess what? That’s not my purview. As the Captain, Security, I did this, this, that, and the third. But everybody has a job to do in a prison. MR. a : Mm-hmm. MR. a : The Officers have a job, to count, maintain accountability, for the inmate population. The Lieutenants all oversee the staff, and make sure they’re doing their jobs right. And then, ultimately, me as the Captain, over the Lieutenants, I have to reassure that they’re doing their jobs right. But when you go back and you start going through fine tooth combingthrough documents EFTA00126580

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 220 w ~] wo 10 11 that you thinking that, you know, your staff are doing the right thing, and now you finding out that people are fudging documents, and creating documents that - or counting inmates that wasn’t in the institution. MR. a : Well, in this instance, it sounds like somebody removed -- MR. a: And removed -- MR. a : -- files. MR. a: -- for doing all of these things that, after the fact, you’re, like, I can't believe this is happening. MR. a : So, if someone removed files, though, || assuming if they’re trying to cover something up, it would have happened on, like, the 10th, the 9th or the 10th. MR. a: It would have b been -- MR. a : Correct? MR. a: -- the 10th, as soon as they found out he passed away. MR. QM: nd well, did a lot of people have access to that room, at that time? MR. a: It was - at that time - it would have been - and it’s not a room. You’re talking about for -- EFTA00126581

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE 221 MR. Ee : Wherever these -- MR. a : -- wherever this file was unit, you walk into the unit. good transition. MR. QJ: 9411 right. MR. a : I believe that this is map of the SHU. wu MR. MR. we’re looking at here? Where are the staff located, and where would this file be? And then, where would Epstein’s cell be, if you know? My unde rstanding is to them, and approximately 15 feet a : But that’s without ever EFTA00126582

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 222 All right. 2 MR. a : Aside from video. So, the office. Bird cage. ] ies) a 4 Office. || trying to figure out which one is w ct y o oO 5 a K wu 3 ie] oO b. 5 + O r t oO c =] B. t co two ways ioe) 14 MR. ae : -- and how do they open c Les] Fs) wo fe w o ke 23 It’s not a special name? 24 MR. | Folger mz (Phonetic Sp. 25 *01:09:52) EFTA00126583

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 223 WwW N Od HH oe rt _ if] 4] fu try Oo a Q 1] ial ~ o he Okay But it’s not, like, a wi oe 6 in 7 e OIA number 8 9 But so, they 10 in order to get SHU - t ioe) Fs) After they open it. 14 MR. ae : -- and there’s only one 15 way in and out? t co Fs) No, but I mean, yeah. Yes. 19 || trying to figure out - even 20 this is orientation of me looking at this - is I know this is 23 MR. a : || assuming there’s a -- 25 trying to figure out, this is L. Yeah, that’s i) EFTA00126584

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 224 w ~] L. Then you’ve got J. So, he was on L-tier, right? vR. SR: r-on. MR. a : So, L-tier, it wouldn't be like this. And then, you would have had the Officer Station, which, this would have been the Officer Station. And that’s going to the Officer Station. There would have been a file cabinet because the desks go around like so. MR. a: Have you ever seen the video of the SHU? Where the Officer Station is. MR. a: You’ re talking about when the staff -- MR. a: The camera. The camera. MR. a: -- so, that camera is by the 27 door, I believe. And that shines from where the entrance of ZB, of -- mR. QJ: 9 Yeah. MR. a: -- that shines down like MR. QJ: «sts that -- MR. a: And then, L-tier is right here. MR. a: -- yeah. Is that pointed right behind the desk, to the left of the desk? EFTA00126585

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2 ho wi 1 MR. QJ: 9 Yeah. 2 MR. a: Okay. That’s what you Ww ue] is) p. o ct oO on wu ct w ig 12) a w 6 MR So, that’s what I was showing 7 you. So, that camera - in essence - that 8 camera would be right there. 9 MR. a : So, it would be clearly 10 showing that file cabinet, if we reviewed that N Fs) Wa id Oo ral wu te 4 MR. a: So, that file cabinet sat 5 right behind the desk. , hopefully that’s 16 better orientation. And then, the cell, I 7 think is L-tier, that Jeffrey Epstein was 8 assigned to was 16. 9 MR. Ee : When you say “assigned to 21 MR. ae: Or something like that. 22 MR. ae : -- it sounds like, was he 23 not in that cell? 24 MR. a : He wasn’t in the right cell. 25 He was not there. EFTA00126586

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 226 w ~] wo 10 11 MR. Ee : He was in a different cell than he was assigned? MR. a: You didn't know that? MR. QJ: No. = Well, tell me about this. So, where -? So, is this the first time that he was ever not in the right cell? MR. QJ: 9oe was not in the right cell, sir. After we went back and we started looking at the Sentry paperwork and all that stuff, that inmate was not in the right cell for six days. So, that mean -- MR. a : For six days, he was in the wrong -- MR. a: -- so, basically, he was assigned to this cell, he died in this cell. MR. Ee : But for six days, he was going to the wrong cell? So, it wasn’t, like, just the one day he was found dead? MR. a: Right. So, they had him quartered over here, but it was inmates already over there. And then, you understand what | | saying? But he was found in this cell. MR. a : I don’t understand when MR. QJ: 9=owait. Let’s point to the EFTA00126587

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 227 1 cell. Because I just want to get an idea. 2 MR. QJ: «But I think it’s L-. I think 3 he was found on L-tier. Right? Do you know w ig 4 om wu tt if] 3 y understanding. 6 MR. ae: Yeah. That’s my 7 understanding, too. 8 MR. a : -- is L-tier. 9 MR. QJ: «= b-tier. 10 MR. a : Again, I don't know the 11 layout. There’s got to be somewhere where it 2 says it on this I think it -. 4 MR. a: Because that’s G. Yeah. hat, it should be J and L. So, when you come ive) Fs) wi | 16 up the steps, I think this was supposed to be - 7 that’s his assignment, this cell over here, but 8 he was found in one of these cells over here. 9 MR. Ee : Now, do you know why? Did 20 you ask that question? 21 MR. ae: Because what they were doing 22 consistently is, is that when we do cell 23 rotations, which is supposed to be done between 24 every 30 days Okay? EFTA00126588

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 228 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a: They may have moved the inmates, but they weren’t changing the PP-34 transaction in Sentry. MR. a : All right. So, what -. MR. a: So, the inmates were moved, right? Physically, but the Sentry paperwork would never be done. MR. a : So, he was supposed to be moved, they just didn't follow with what their necessary paperwork? MR. a: No. He was in this cell. They must have moved him in Sentry. They must have moved him, right? But he - when the Sentry assignment came up - it showed that he was still remained assigned to that cell, instead of him being physically found in this cell. MR. ae : But what || saying is, like, it sounds, like, they were supposed to move him, they just never did the paperwork to say that he was moved? MR. a: Correct. MR. a : Okay. So, it’s not, like, I mean, I guess they technically put him in the wrong cell because he wasn’t technically assigned to that, but the move was supposed to EFTA00126589

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 229 1 happen, they just didn't follow with the 2 administrative part of it. Ww Fs) bs) p a 7 af oO Ww a a n rT fa) 1 Ke | Oo =i i} so, aside from the 7 administrative failure, is there any other 8 suspicion about the fact that he wasn’t in the 9 assigned cell? 10 MR. a: It was, and also, the 11 suspicion was, why did he 7e so much linen? 2 And so many t-shirts, and so many blankets. 3 No We’re taught you get one blanket, maybe 4 two. 15 MR. QJ: nd what -. 16 MR. ae: You get one, two, until you 7 get two t-shirts, two boxers, two pairs of 8 socks. 9 MR. Ee : Was that question asked? 20 I mean, did you ask, like, J, or any of the 21 SHU staff since then? 22 MR. a: Of course. 23 MR. a : And what did they say? 24 MR. a : I mean, they’re going to be, 25 like, I don’t - how would I know? EFTA00126590

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 230 1 MR. Ee : Who was responsible? 2 MR. a: But you know what? That 3 happens all the time, sir. Because I will tell 4 you, I could clean out SHU. I’ve done it. And 5 they could say, I’ve went up there physically, 6 supervisors going in there, cleaning out the 7 SHU. I think I did it three or four times. 8 Well, and then, less than a week, I could go do 9 rounds, and inmates got all the stuff back. 10 MR. a : Who was responsible for 11 giving it to them? 2 MR. ae: The staff because staff have 3 the keys. 4 MR. ae : And they just say, you need more, here you go? w t oO a Here you go. 7 MR. ae : Well, would the staff do the Lieutenant do it, or -? a : I don’t think Lieutenants ie] } rt 12] ta] = ie) c ~ oF oO 5 21 MR. QJ: so, the -- 22 MR. a: It’s more of a staff. 23 MR. a : -- okay. 24 MR. a : Because they don’t want to hear an inmate crying. EFTA00126591

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE N wo MR. QJ: Now, is -. MR. a: Kicking on the door. MR. a : Is having those extra linens, and those extra, you know, boxers or fu security issue? whatever, is that 7) oO wo MR. a : And why is that wu ecause ultimately, that the inmat materials to be able to make homemade fashioned and improvised nooses. MR. a: Or they’1l build a TT, and use it as escape paraphernalia, just like they did in Chicago. Tie that stuff together, they broke out the window, and the inmate had a rope. That’s why we don’t give inmates excess clothing. MR. Ee : Okay. Now, as far a file, though, you never found out where wo ct a Pp. tt) MR. EJ: No. MR. a : -- documents went? MR. a : I couldn’t find them. MR. a : Okay. And when we were EFTA00126592

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 232 uw ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 saying people that had access to this room, was it just a flood of people at that point, coming out? MR. a : Anybody that - the people who would be most would know about those files would be the SHU staff. MR. QJ: the suv staff. MR. a: And the Lieutenants. MR. QR: Okay. MR. a: Of course. MR. a : And what would be in those files that possibly people wouldn’t want people to see? MR. QJ: 31 mean, the only thing, I mean, that would be in there, like I said, 292s, because you’re supposed to do them every day. MR. a : And what are 292s? MR. a: 292s basically are, it shows the inmates activities in the unit, daily. It talks about if the inmate - any time the inmate is out of the SHU time, out of cell time, it’s annotated on the 292. When the inmate showers, when the inmate exercises, when the inmate eats. Every meal. EFTA00126593

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 233 w ~] wo 10 11 MR. Ee : Now, in your opinion, would it be -- MR. a: For a 24-hour period. MR. a : -- would these documents be missing because they were potentially falsified, or because they might show something about the death of Epstein? MR. a: It would show if he wasn’t taking meals. And they didn't report it. It would show if the inmate wasn’t afforded any outside recreation time. Or any out of cell time. But we know he wasn’t getting that because he was going to Attorney conference. MR. QR: Okay. MR. a: But those forms, no, they wouldn’t show that the inmate, you know, all of that stuff is just administrative stuff that we track for every inmate. MR. Ee : That’s why | | just trying to figure out what would be the purpose of taking those files? MR. a: Is there a possibility the file was never updated? MR. a: I don’t believe that. MR. QJ: 9 Okay. EFTA00126594

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 234 w ~] MR. Ee : And who would be updating the files? Just anybody in SHU? MR. a: That would be the OIC. Every Sunday. You’re printing out all the 292s, then you put them in the file. MR. a : So, on Sundays. Is it one person that typically -? MR. QJ: 9The OICs. Normally, the OIC on morning watch would do that. They would print out all of the 292s, and they would put them all in each file. MR. a : Do you know, at this time, around the August 93th and August 10th, who would have been responsible for those files, and printing those out, and putting them in? MR. a: That would have been either the - that would have probably been the SHU staff - it would have been either, it would probably be 9 Hg. MR. a : | | would have been? MR. a: Because she was assigned as the - that would have been one of the responsibilities of the SHU One. But that would have been on Sunday. EFTA00126595

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) wo wi MR. Ee : Yeah. Sunday. That’s what | | saying. Do you know, up until this point, though? Like, so, if the file is gone, he’s now there for, what? Almost two months. MR. QJ: 39 (Indiscernible *01:19:43). MR. a : Would it be one person responsible, or -- MR. a : -- whoever is there on Sunday? MR. a: She wouldn’t have known. So, I mean, she wouldn’t have - that’s something, unless you’re the full-time SHU OIC, that you would be cognizant of. MR. ae: She wouldn’t know that. MR. ae : So, there’s that. MR. a : Question for you. If he was put on suicide watch, or psych observation, would that file be moved with him? MR. ae: When the inmate goes on suicide watch, they create another 292 because he’s not in the unit. So, that 292 goes down with - and is put on the door Right? So, that copy of that 292, yeah, that’s supposed to go EFTA00126596

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 236 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 to psychology, and the copy is supposed to go back to Correctional Services, to put in his file, to be maintained that, yeah, he was on suicide watch. This would happen. You know, you tell the story. So, yeah. Yeah. It would - all of that information would be in there. MR. a : No. But || just asking, is it possible it went to psych observation or wherever that unit is, and never made it back? MR. a: It’s a possibility. MR. a : But then, he’s made there since - but it should - like you were saying - it should have been constantly updated. So, from July 30th through August 9th or 10th, there should still be extra stuff in there. Correct? MR. a: Mm-hmm. MR. a: Okay. MR. Ee : All right. So, let’s keep going here. “HE expressed to | that the staff admitted to her they did not complete rounds, the 3:00 i. and 5:00 i. counts.” And that, so, and that’s all they admitted to, was those two? Not the ones prior to that? EFTA00126597

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 237 1 MR. J: Right. So, when I talked to 2 | | on the phone, that’s what he told me on ies) w wo i=) entered Epstein’s cell without supervision. 11 Now, what does that mean? time - N 5 | ie) fu rt 3 oO fu 6 it rt a w ct mw 5 va 3 especially in the Special Housing Unit - any 4 time that cell, it should have been - 5 especially after hours - a Supervisor should 16 have been present. 7 MR. ae : When he went in to do the life-saving measures, right? 9 MR. BJ: 9 xup. 20 MR. QJ: Now, do you know if - was 21 | and a. were they together, and he 22 walked in, or was she, like, down the range? 23 MR. a: I believe she was on the co A if 24 down, she was off the tier, and he probably 25 went to go do - doing the breakfast carts, and EFTA00126598

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 238 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 by the time he comes down the tier, and he comes through - so, that means he didn't do a round, because he would have saw him. Right? So, that means he’s going around, because that’s how feed, as soon as we come on, we don’t go this way. We go this way. So, that cell that Epstein was found in, I think it’s, like, the second from the in. And so, it’s, like, the last cell, and then he was in that next cell. Right? So, they come around the whole area, and when he get to his cell, you observe the inmate unresponsive. So, what you’re supposed to do is, you call Control. Control, hey, I’ve got an unresponsive inmate. Send staff to SHU. Or I’ve got an unresponsive inmate, please state the medical emergency, send someone to SHU. | to Ops, hey, I need you come to the Special Housing Unit. Boom. You come up there. You’ve got a staff because you don’t know if it’s a rouse. You just popped down the door and just go in there. You’re putting yourself in jeopardy. MR. QJ: Now, does this create suspicion for you, the fact that he went in there by himself? EFTA00126599

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) Wo \o MR. a: I’ve seen a lot of stuff at MCC, as far as with security protocols. I’ve written staff up for violation of security protocols. That instance right there, what he did, wouldn’t be uncommon. MR. QM: okay. MR. a : Because you try to tell people how to react in an emergency situation, and guess what? Everybody is not going to ifs) ay how they’re going to react. But we do tell them, if you’re in the Special Housing Unit, you need to wait until a Supervisor comes on the scene before you pop a door in SHU. MR. ae : Now, do you know how -- MR. QJ: = Period. MR. Ee : -- he was found? Was he hanging? -- MR. a : I don't know how he was found. MR. QJ: | -- was he on the floor? MR. a: Don’t know. I didn't read the autopsy report. I don't know. wR. I: okay. MR. ae: I only know what the news had EFTA00126600

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo ° N ive) oO oo No N N ion) OFFICIAL USE reported. Ok was placed on the floor ” saving efforts, and didn't know if he was that I don't | admitted to i. about the jes was true or was MR. He + He wasn ve. a: a: es : He He didn't release him. whereabouts You £ ot released from the SHU, confirmed w co was released from He was Oh was Oh he he wo ay. It says, “Epstein to administer life- t’ why I asked, I 07] = ill hanging -- know. he took them off. Associate Warden Jfficers | | and | had concerns Epstein’s cell mate. Oo Hh staff were under the impression which as not true.” Was not nfirmed that -? n’t released from SHU. SHU. was released? released from court. , okay. n’t released from the t’s from court. , Okay. So, what 5) re is that you guy v went to court, and they EFTA00126601

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LIMITED w ~] wo 10 11 ive) OFFICIAL USE 241 released him, he never -- MR. a: That’s right. MR. a : -- he never came back. MR. a : He never came back. MR. a : Okay. But he was released from custody? MR. a: Yes. He was released in custody when he went to court -- MR. a: -- that day. MR. QJ: 811 right. so, thi worded weird. “The purpose of the 3:00 and the i i] fo 5:00 i. count is to physically count and confirm each person is in their cell. There were no entries of counts in TRUSCOPE the entire night. If technology is down, the Correctional Officers also have the option to document the count on a hard copy form. Although there are no electronic records of counts, hard copies must have been retained.” MR. a: That is correct. MR. QJ: «ts it odd that they didn't enter it into the TRUSCOPE that night? MR. a: No, it’s not odd. Because I told you, on occasion, the staff member would EFTA00126602

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 242 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 say, oh, I don’t have access to TRUSCOPE, but however, they are given hard copies of the count slip, which continues for the 24-hour period. MR. a : Right. Yeah. MR. a: So, you’re continuing to do your rounds. And then, at the end of the rounds, at the end of the week, this is how it’s supposed to happen. Because I actually put this in place, because that was one of the vitals that we had during our program review, which we got a hit on. At the end of the week, the Lieutenant is supposed to get them, and he will audit them, to make every sure all of your rounds was conducted in the 40-minutes irregular. If it’s not, that staff member is identified, and then, they’re given counseling. So, we’re trying to stop staff, you know, we try to encourage staff to do the right thing, but if they’re not, we’re trying to catch it on our level, before it gets reported out. So, even then, you know, the Lieutenants there was sign put up there that it wasn’t getting done on a regular basis. EFTA00126603

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 243 w ~] MR. a: When I input, when I - and then, I have to counsel them, where is my stuff weekly? So, I’ve counseled them. I’ve got counseling’s for that. MR. a : Did you ever counsel either J or EP MR. QJ: No. I don’t know if I have a counseling on them. MR. QR: Okay. MR. a: No, but before this incident, but no. MR. a : It says, “All inmate phone calls in the SHU are monitored, and inmates have limited access to phone calls. All calls should be recorded. | was not aware of any issues or complaints with Epstein, related to phone calls. On Saturday, August 10, 2019, | was told that Epstein made a i. on the evening of Friday, August 9, 2019. It is oO phone call at approximately 7:0 uncommon to make an unrecorded phone call in the SHU, and | would advise against it because calls should be surveilled. Inmates can make a recorded phone call in the Lieutenant’s Office, where it is documented in EFTA00126604

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 244 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 a monitored logbook. In the SHU, Correctional Officers are not permitted to give inmate phone calls, but a Unit Task Team member, or the Chaplin can take the inmate to the Lieutenant’s Office and make a call. | is not briefed on phone calls in the SHU generally.” But in this case, you said that you did advise Ft that he could. And where did the call take place? MR. a: Well, because I know between that time, we had installed a jack. MR. a : Okay. MR. a : In SHU, in order to do the outgoing calls. So, they could actually do those calls in SHU. Though, before the Chaplin, of course. So, if you had a SHU inmate, he didn't have to bring the inmate all the way down to the Lieutenant’s Office to do a call. MR. QM: Okay. MR. a: So, there was a jack up there in the - I can't remember where it is. || sorry. MR. a : It’s near the shower room? EFTA00126605

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LIMITED ies) w wo i=) N ive) oO co ho No w OFFICIAL USE 245 MR. QJ: 9 Yeah. But so, we actually had the ability to have Something like that. that outgoing call capability for those inmates in SHU. Because you can't bring them down to Okay. MR. ae: So, you could do an outgoing call capability in the SHU. Okay. And so, you did approve that call, and then, just log it? Okay. And take care of all that? MR. a: Yes, I did. | was, actually, I believe he was the And that was something that Mr. id, and Mr. wu IDO. MR. a : And again, what is the IDO? The Institutional Duty MR. ae : And what does that mean? week, for a , normally, people with a grades of just 12 and above, 12, 13s, EFTA00126606

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 246 1 2 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 would be the Institutional - or 14s - would be the Institutional Duty Officer. Right? So, that means they go around, and they check all of the institutional - that they’re taking calls after hours, from Correctional Services. They’ re reporting certain stuff to the Region. They’re doing rounds in SHU. They’re doing rounds throughout the institution, in all the areas of the institution, and the accumulated report, which is given to the Warden for their review, about the daily operations of the institution during that week. Also, a part of that is SHU rounds. You know, they make sure that SHU rounds, everybody that’s supposed to do rounds within a week, you have to do them, or you get notified, and then you notify that Thursday or Friday, and you’re supposed to go do your rounds. By the close out. You only have to do it there once a week. So, that’s just part of the duties. But they bring the report, they create a report of the total operations. Any incidents that occurred. The counts in SHU, if they was bad. Anything that was going on in Food Service, or if they observed certain instances during the - in EFTA00126607

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 247 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 general population that should be addressed by the Unit Team or Correctional Services, and stuff like that. And so, that’s what they do. MR. a : Okay. And then, this concludes, yo wholeheartedly emphasized that he and his staff at MCC did their best to supervise, safeguard, and ensure the protection of Epstein and all inmates effectively. His staff is aware of the seriousness of the investigation into Epstein’s death.” MR. a : Now, as far as what I just read you, I know it was over the course of two hours, but - I mean, four hours - but is there anything else you told the FBI or the OIG that wasn’t included in this report? MR. a : And what was that regarding? MR. a: I talked about that, when I, it was brief in there, but I talked about Lieutenant | actions. Talked about that, one) she didn't do physical rounds in the unit because, as I said, I went into TRUSCOPE, because I wanted to know, because I did all EFTA00126608

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 248 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) this within the time that I got to the institution, I pulled up TRUSCOPE, and I can actually go in, and I get to see where they’re logging in and doing rounds because once I pull up those reports, because the two I verify off of, I pull those reports up, I can show where the computer terminals are. And all of her rounds was done from the Lieutenant’s Office. MR. a : Okay. I thought - so -- MR. a: Because you -. MR. Ee : -- | - aside from the bad count, where she should have went - she should have, even with the bad count, she should have been there, observing an actual MR. QJ: in the swu? MR. Ee : And what count? MR. QJ: No. No, no, no. What she should have done is then done rounds. MR. QJ: «on. MR. a: In the SHU that night. So, between 10:00 and 6:00, she should have done a round in SHU. Well, any time after 12:00 J. EFTA00126609

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ~] wo 10 11 to 6:00, she should There was no rounds. 249 have done a round in SHU. All of the rounds were done from the Lieutenant’s Office. think we do believe round at 4:00 a. Well, if she did - I that she did conduct a MR. QJ: 9 Okay. So, she actually physically went into the SHU at 4:00 a. -- MR. QJ: 9 okay. -- and spoke with them. And then, potentially even came back, and checked in a little UNKNOWN MALE: got a little busy. if she did that one while later. Dude, it’s been a while. Thank you, ir. And so, i) time, at the 4:00 .. possibly another check-in ten or 15 minutes later, would that be sufficed for whatever her duty and responsibility was? MR. a: Well, that means, if you sat there and you did all your rounds, so, I did all of my rounds at MR. GJ: =n the computer office. And never went -- the computer I EFTA00126610

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 250 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (Indiscernible *01:32:56). MR. a : -- and she never - she was supposed to go to the Control Center, and actually do the counts from there, right? MR. a: Well, you’re supposed to take - yeah - one of the counts. So, normally, we would take the 3:45 count or the 5:00. Either one. You could take one of the counts. It don’t matter which one you take. You’ve just got to take one. The 12:00, the 3:00, or the 5:00. Right? You’ve got to take a count. You’ve got to go through, go do a round in SHU. A round in SHU. So, you have to go, actually, go physically to the unit. And then, you’re supposed to do rounds throughout the entire institution. So, if | | at the Lieutenant’s desk, and I say that all my rounds was done from this one terminal, because you’re actually supposed to go in, I provide it in card readers. MR. a : So, they’re supposed to - when they do a round there - so, they’re supposed to log it in from the unit? MR. a: From that terminal. EFTA00126611

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 251 ~] wo 10 11 MR. a: So, that means they can go on a floor, and they don’t have to go log into both computers on the floor, as long as you log into one on the floor, you’re good. That’s the ifs) policy. MR. a : And is that just to show that they are physically there, and they’re not MR. QJ: 9 Yeah. MR. a : -- falsifying the rounds? MR. a: There is. MR. a : Okay. MR. a: So, you just can't just sit at the desk, and say, I did all the rounds. MR. a: | | going to investigate the (Indiscernible *01:34:05) of what the Lieutenant rounds entails. MR. a : You can ask again, if you want. Go ahead. (Indiscernible *01:34:09). MR. QJ: 391 don’t remember if you did. I apologize if you answered it already. When wu Lieutenant has to do a round in a - let’s say any tier - and let’s say the SHU, what does that entail? What (Indiscernible *01:34:19)? MR. a : They’re supposed to go door EFTA00126612

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 252 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 by door, just like I explained to you before. You’ re supposed to go in the unit, go on the tier, and you’re supposed to walk and look at every cell. MR. a : And what’d he saying, he just - to clarify - he wants to make sure it’s the Lieutenants that are also supposed to do that. mR. QJ: ves. MR. a : Not just the staff. And is that - and again, for clarification, I apologize, but it’s so much, we’ve got to dissect, you know, we’re going to have to digest what you told us, and listen to it again - but is it every shift, a Lieutenant should do that? MR. a: Yes. Every shift, in the 24- hour period, rounds have to be conducted by a Lieutenant. In SHU. MR. a : And so, if Lieutenants are telling us that they don’t think that that’s part of their duties, they’re supposed to do just rounds -- MR. a: -- of staff, and is that EFTA00126613

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE N wa Ww 2 3 that they need to do 5 6 and if they’re 7 lying to us, or are 8 9 ust think they’re 10 unaware or confused. MR. I really do. If it says that nN 3 a Lieutenant will perform a round in the 4 Special Housing Unit, once on their shift. 5 MR. a : And then, and 16 an actual, not a round to check in with the 7 staff, but a round -- No. 9 MR. Ee : -- to actually looking at Lee) 5 21 MR. ae: -- round to walk around the 23 MR. a : So, in this matter, when 24 10:00 §., 12:00 25 yn our duty EFTA00126614

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LIMITED ies) w co io ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 25¢ roster, on both August 9th and August 10th - which Lieutenant should have conducted rounds MR. Okay. So, on -- With the inmates. -- on August 9th, [RF | should have done a round in SHU. MR. 5 MR. But what, approximately time? MR. a tC oO rt > @ Qo. nT] o m rh Oo 6 m i] | -- for August 8th -- So, that means -- 3) she would have done 5) Q a) ] Hh rt v) K | | i b n c c MR. Okay. 7 or ma would have done them. So, I don't know who would have MR. done them on that day, and didn't have a SHU Lieutenant, done a round in SHU. ° EFTA00126615

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LIMITED No No iN ies) w oO co ioe) co © ion) OFFICIAL USE 255 doing a round in the PC unit. MR. QJ: nd are you aware if | or a. they were there? Do you know if either of th oO m ar o wu = wu 8 o rt ' ju rt rt J ti) ke D i) on © on ct fe} do rounds of inmates in the SHU? MR. of them would have done it. MR. a: So, I would say, normally, >yrations Lieutenant, I would would have been the one there? MR. a: And then, for a. I sent | up there. MR. QJ: «411 right. so, done a round. Okay. And oF] 3) EFTA00126616

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) N uw oO the rounds? It could have been any round, because rounds are 30, it would be 30-minutes one of the main counts? MR. a: So, just like a Correctional Supervisor, a Lieutenant, is supposed to make a round in SHU. MR. a : I know, but what - I just want to make sure we’re clarifying the difference between the 30-minute round and the - because you said they should have conducted one of the 4:00, 10:00, 12:00 -- MR. a: That’s a count. MR. Ee : -- that’s a count? So, are they supposed to conduct a count, or just one of the regular 30-minute rounds? MR. a: No. On every shift, within a 24-hour period, a Lieutenant is supposed to HU. wn make a round in MR. ae : A round. So, not -- MR. a: A Lieutenant. That’s would say a Lieutenant. EFTA00126617

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) uw x) MR. a: It specifies to a - because I can't say the Operations, the Activities, the Admin. No. A Lieutenant. So, that’s why we get by on day watch because you have the assigned Lieutenant in the unit, that’s going to make the said round. MR. a : Okay. And so, when -- MR. a: Or day watch. MR. a : -- so, when | went to - at 4:00 - to the SHU, she should have wu conducted a round of the inmate -- MR. a : Of the entire Unit. MR. a : -- not just checked in with the staff? MR. a: No. She should have made a round. MR. ae : Okay. And then, that’s what I wanted to clarify a round versus count. Because that could have happened any time in between - you know, for these people - any time in between any of the counts, at any time they could have showed up and said, let’s doa round. mR. J: 9 m-hon. MR. a : Real quick. Okay. EFTA00126618

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 258 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a: And when she made that round, she just sees the person, she doesn't have to talk to them? MR. a : You walk around, and if it’s at night, you’re going to take and shine your light in there, because you’re not doing a count. So, as Correctional Officers, you know, over the years, you’re taught to look at certain things in a cell. When I shine that light in there, || shining, I make sure, because normally inmates will move their foot or move their leg, or arm, or leg, so I would count flesh when I see flesh. I could check the windows real quick, or if they got stuff in hanging, that’s restricting my view, I could correct it at that time, hey, take that down, hey you, so and so, get up, take the covering down. That’s doing an effective round. And you do that for every cell in the block. MR. a : What about when the SHU Lieutenant i is on duty, is he the one that’s doing the rounds? MR. a: Yeah. No. No, no. Officers are doing the rounds. So, when he does his rounds, it’s normally with a status report. EFTA00126619

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LIMITED ies) co OFFICIAL USE You understand? N wi its] also one of the Activities or Ops Lieutenant is also doing one? MR. EJ: No. he’s the one to do that round. physically in the Unit, when he of duty. the Ops or the Activi Mm-hmm. Yes. All right you know, Lieutenants, they don’t need to Right. An It’s only 's there? - So then, the, ties then go to the rounds on that when he’s not EFTA00126620

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LIMITED ies) w fos) ive) oO oo OFFICIAL USE MR. a: Correct. obviously, he’s only there in i] He’s not there at night? Lieutenant is at night, alwa And then, the day, MR. a : Got to do go a MR. QJ: and that’ round, re talking about, actually do the inmate round? probably would have probably MR. ae: I heard it i] didn't she was the needs t 960 260 right? Ops °o go do round. Yup. didn' hours you meant conduct a t before. in EFTA00126621

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LIMITED ies) w co ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE 261 MR. QJ: Okay. Where the sHu staff are located in the map that you just drew MR. QJ: 9 vn-hon. MR. QJ: -- could they cell from there? if the lights was on, you know, But you could see, like, ficer’s standing down by the look up on the tier, and I could l if the lights are on, I could defir the light was on in the cell or not. MR. a : About how big are the windows of the doors? MR. ae: I would like this. MR. a : Or something. Something like that. 5 EFTA00126622

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 262 WwW id tl 0) i) 4 MR. a : There’s nothing that 5 covers them, or -? 6 MR. ae: We do have the ability to 7 close, like, when we have an incident on the 8 tier, we have an unresponsive inmate, or -- 9 MR. a : Yup. 10 MR. a: -- we were giving medical, 11 you know, if we’re doing anything that deals 2 with the inmate specifically, we’ll block those 3 other observation windows off, so the inmates 4 can't see. 15 MR. a : Now, when the staff are 16 doing an overnight, the early morning watch, 7 from zero, from 12:00 J. and through 8:00 8 .. are they allowed to sleep? oO a3 a : No. You can't sleep. 20 MR. QJ: So, if the suu, if 21 they’re in the SHU, can one sleep while the 22 other stays awake? 23 MR. QR: No. 24 MR. a : So, no one is allowed ct o EFTA00126623

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 263 MR. GJ: No. 5 Have you heard that they were sleeping on this shift? MR. ae: I heard that, and what camera a) them erv oO footage I saw, I could physically ob sleeping. MR. a : So, did you see them both sleeping? review the video? saw both of them asleep? Do you know about how long they were sleeping? can't remember that. on B Sure. And is that a mm: = Pe MR. a : That is a very big problem. MR. : I mean, my thing is, is that I understand that, you know, you worked overtime, or you was mandated to work another time. When I was a Correctional Officer, guess what? I’1ll go get on the tier, I’1l go do EFTA00126624

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 264 w ~] ive) rounds. I would just stay walking in the unit. You know? It’s nothing wrong to get on the internet. But between that time you're on the internet, you need to shut it off, and go do rounds. If that’s the way you stay awake at night, or do your OIC duties. Audit the - what they’ re told to do - audit the bed book. Audit the - make sure all the 292s is done for the previous shift. You know, do all the stuff that’s mandated on your watch as you’re supposed to do, then do those functions. That will keep you awake. MR. QJ: Yeah. MR. a: If you’re doing the work. MR. a: Were they allowed -- MR. Ee : Do you -- MR. a: -- yeah. MR. a : -- do you know if either of these individuals, in this instance - | | or FRM - were on mandatory overtime? MR. a: | | was. I believe she was going from evening watch to morning watch, and I believe that | came into work that as overtime. MR. QE: Now, QJ was mandatory EFTA00126625

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 265 1 overtime, though? She didn't -- 2 MR. a: Yeah. She was a mandated. I 3 think she was mandated because if you see here, 4 she was - her shift was 4:00 to 12:00. Right? 5 And then, if you see here, as TO - || 6 overtime. So, if you go here, it’s going to 7 show, go to SHU One. Yeah. if 8 she - yeah, it says, yeah - if she was SHU One, ite] a w Q a fe. H o jen =e o it 12) 5 o wi bP wo n fa) # ot Q fe) o a iS) rt i=) show if she was mandatory, or whatever. 11 MR. Ee : So, it could have N 2) Bp = =] ct fw KK het ive) Fs) It could have been voluntary. 4 Great. And 5 16 then I’1l turn it over to a. Here’s an e- 7 mail that was sent out on 07/30/2019, froma Les] u 12] oO c ~ 5 oO = = S fe) cr a wu rt pe it) ) Hi | l ina] I No 5 K @ vy a Ae] =] jon bh ot if) rf a 17) No wi aa =) 3 fa ct oO is ue] n rr oO bP: 5 =] c 3 oO @ ia — a ve) rar oo | oO wo } 3) o oO } 3 Q EFTA00126626

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2 w ~] wo 10 11 ) fon taken off psych observation, and needs to be housed with an appropriate cell mate. Do you recall getting that at all? MR. a : So, “At 07/30, inmate Epstein is going to be taken off of psychological, and needs to be housed with an appropriate inmate.” I probably did. Yeah. MR. a : Now, can you flip over - you’re going to see all, like, the Lieutenants and everybody in there. If your Lieutenants received this -- MR. a: It would have sai MR. a : -- so, do they have to click on a - do they have, like, for me, I can “Read.” AQ. say, like, do I want to send a response or not? MR. a: No, they have to click on it. MR. ae : Right. So, if they don’t click on it, they could still have read it? MR. QJ: 9 vm-hon. MR. QJ: nd it wouldn’t say “Read response”? MR. a: Mm-hmm. You would have to click on it to read it. MR. a : Do you know what || saying? So, like, if I open an e-mail, it gives EFTA00126627

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 267 2 MR. P| : Mm-hmm. -- it gives me an option ies) a 4 - in my e-mail at least - want to send a w read response? oo 5 1 i like, on mine, how I got 9 mine set up, I could see the e-mail message. 10 You know you can do that, right? Like, on my 1 mine, like, when my emails come up -- 2 MR. a : Yeah, yeah. MR. a: -- I can read what it is 4 without actually clicking on it. ive) 3 u f foal ue] oO Oo ue} pa @ Oo o ct s o iad it) rt io fu ct co Fs) t 18) you think that they 9 actually didn't see this e-mail, or didn't 22 MR. ae : So, are a lot of BOP EFTA00126628

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 268 on there, you believe that some of these Lieutenants actually may not have seen that e- mail? Mm-hmm. 7) hh wu P- K Okay. That’s And that’ is] fair. Because I like, I can ac ‘t know if I read, if without actually it showing that it was read. MR just because it s -- Yeah, because, like, || | read it. || read it. SHU EFTA00126629

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2 ao wo 1 staff. The AW read it. || just looking at 2 all of the Lieutenants. Lieutenant | read 3 it. The Warden read it. (Indiscernible 4 *01:47:41) read it. So, yeah, there was a few 5 Lieutenants that actually read it. 6 MR. a : Okay. But just because 7 it says that they didn't read it, doesn't mean 8 they necessarily - like you - they could have 9 had something -- 10 MR. BJ: 9 Right. 11 MR. Ee : -- set up where it 2 doesn't even show that they read it. MR. QJ: 9 Right. 4 MR. ae : All right. Before I turn ive) 15 it over, can you just - just so we know what 16 documents - can you just initial and date the 7 top of each of these sets of documents that I 8 gave you? 9 MR. a : Yeah. Right here? 20 MR. QJ: Yeah. dust all on top. 21 Yup. Just your initial and date. Today’s date 22 is -- 23 MR. a: What is today? EFTA00126630

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LIMITED ies) co co OFFICIAL USE 270 x r a o 4 c 1) rt al Oo ini wu Bb bh @ MR. a : No, no. Just -- way we keep records of what we actually talked about. MR. a : | | sorry. You know, it’s taking all day. MR. ae : No. We really - it’s super helpful. There’ is] a lot of stuff that you told us that we didn't MR. a : I was surprised you didn't ow about him being in the wro EFTA00126631

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 271 1 MR. QM: Yeah. =No. That’s - did 2 you know anything about that? mR. QR: No. 4 MR. a : But again, that’s an ies) 5 administrative error, as opposed to any kind of co a MR. a : And then, just the duty chedules. Thank you, oO i] Q oO o ct 1 MR. a: You’ re welcome. 2 CS: ll right. Em. Just a couple of follow up ive) a) 3) Sure. t oO a Was Epstein given special privileges, anything like that? No. I don’t believe so. No. Lee) 5 You mentioned that he was 20 meeting with his 23 other the r 4 3 fu ct 0) o) 24 MR. I mean, all the inmates are 25 afforded that because while they’re pre-trial EFTA00126632

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 272 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 inmates, they have that right, to seek the legal counsel. MR. a: Okay. MR. a : So, it’s up to the legal counsel when they want to go see them. If they don’t want to go see them every 90 days, that’s, you know, but his legal counsel came quite often. MR. a: Okay. The phone call. The instruction you gave a. You told him that had made the phone call, record it. Now, if Epstein mentioned that he wants to make the phone call to a certain person, and if ft dialed that number, is he supposed to identify that that’s the person who answered the phone? MR. a: Yeah. Like I told you before, that’s part of the process. So, that’s, like, if I call you, and you say, well, || so and so, and || his Attorney. Okay. Fine. MR. a: Now, if that person wasn’t the person who answered the phone, what was | supposed to do? MR. a: Then he was supposed to not give and allow him to - like, if he was trying EFTA00126633

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 273 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to call a male and a female answered the phone, if that meant, is so and so available? No. Then he wouldn’t have gotten - been able to speak to the female person that answered the phone. No. MR. a: According to the records, I think Epstein mentioned he wanted to speak to his mother. MR. a: Okay. I don't know. MR. a: Is there, like, a list that they need to go by, or just Epstein would provide the number, and that was it? MR. a : Basically, inmates are supposed to supply certain people their supposed to call. So, like, on their phone list, there’s certain people that we vet, that the inmates can call. So, normally, it’s, like, over in - a religious person, your immediate family members, a girlfriend, a wife, a spouse, children, stuff like that, past or whatever. But then, legally, if your legal contact or your Attorney, it’s different. You know, you can - that’s a totally different type of call. Outside of what the inmates get. Like, if they pick up the commissary phone, and EFTA00126634

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 274 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 try to call, it’s only going to allow them to call those numbers off of the phone list. MR. Okay. a: MR. a : You know what || saying? The proof form is the green form. But over here, they say, well, I need to speak to my Attorney. Okay, I’1l give you the Attorney call. But if that was the case, he could have been afforded or given, if he was calling his mother, if he had time on the books, because he went back to his cell prior to - I think the cell, the SHU, the cell, the phones in SHU cut off at 9:00 i. | | not certain. I can't remember. He could have called his mother at that time. And we wouldn’t have had to facilitate the call. He could have called her right from the thing. MR. a : So, I just want to - should | have checked that list before he made that phone call? MR. a: Yeah. MR. a: Okay. And the last question is, if the order came from Psych, right? - It was just a question - if the order came from Psych, that Epstein needed a cell mate, should they have come down to the Unit and made sure EFTA00126635

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 275 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 that everyone else knew about it, that requirement? MR. : No. Well, what do you mean? : Let’s say, at Psych, that MR. a: Yeah. MR. a : -- e-mail came out saying that, Epstein required a cell mate. MR. a: Okay. So, what would have happened is, if he would have been released - because she would put that out. So, if the inmate was being released from suicide watch, prior for him being released from suicide watch, that would have went to the exec staff, that would have went to the SHU OIC, the Operations Lieutenant, to inform him that he needs - before place him in SHU - he needs to have an appropriate cell mate. Not a vetted one. Just someone because of what the SHU policy says, that an inmate must have a cell mate. MR. a : Okay, but it’s on -- MR. a: But it doesn't say a vetted cell mate. It doesn't say all these protocols. But with her, that’s a general statement that EFTA00126636

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 276 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 would be made for any suicide watch inmate coming off of suicide watch. MR. a: Oh so, she sent that e-mail? MR. a : That’s it, if you pull up any other e-mail dealing with an e-mail coming from suicide watch, back to SHU, that would be for any inmate. But however, with him, you couldn’t necessarily do that because he would have to have a vetted cell mate. He would have to have somebody appropriate for him. Not just any cell that was open. That, you know, if it was a -- MR. a : I see. MR. QJ: 9 -- single occupancy, then you could put him in there. But no, he had to be vetted before he could go in with anybody. MR. a: That’s all I had. MR. a : Is there anything we’re missing? Anything we didn't cover? MR. a: That’s it. MR. a : Let me see this form right here. Yeah, we covered that. All right. So, yeah. If there’s nothing else on your end, then just we’ll wrap it up. MR. a: Okay. EFTA00126637

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2 10 11 12 13 14 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ~) ~J] MR. Ee : And there’s - again - there’s nothing that you discussed with the FBI, or the OIG, previous, that we didn't cover? On this. MR. a: No. That’s pretty much everything. MR. QJ: «that’s it. Perfect. It sounds like you were with a - ae . Was there anything else that she didn't do, that she should have? Aside from that round. MR. a: I mean, with | lO I believe that it was the issue with the log. I think it was a log issue that we had talked about, that when I pulled up the initial log, after I got there, when I pulled up the Lieutenant’s log, it appeared that it was two different logs in the system. And then, within 45 minutes, one log had disappeared out of the system, and then, I see her leaving at about 9:15 .. out of the building. I don't know where she was in the building, but at 9:15 .. she comes walking out of the building. And I reported that to OIG when I talked to them. I talked to them about that log being -- MR. a: And what was the log? EFTA00126638

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 27 ~] wo 10 11 ~) oo MR. a: -- the daily log. MR. a : The daily log. MR. a: The Lieutenant’s log. So, there was two different logs, and then, one of the logs wasn’t right. And then, when I went back, it had been deleted. And then, I see her leaving out the building at 9:15 i. MR. a : Okay. MR. a: On that Saturday morning. MR. a : And when should have she left? MR. QJ: «she should have left at 6:00. Why was she in the building for another three plus hours? And I brought that up to the investigators, to the OIG. MR. a: Can I see that timeline? MR. ae : Do you have any reason to believe - obviously, there looks like there was some people that dropped the ball here, there’s some, like we talked about, job performance failure, security failure - do you have any reason to believe that there’s anybody that harmed Epstein? mR. GR: No. MR. a : So, do you believe that - EFTA00126639

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LIMITED ies) w co io ioe) co OFFICIAL USE N J 9° saw that there was two - it looks what the did you wo e o disc tell you how I found out. MR. QJ: §= So, when I went in TRU told you I was looking for the rounds. MR. SJ: 9 e-hoon. MR. a: Because || bouncing off of what the rou MR. SJ: 9 e-hoon. the log ds was. EFTA00126640

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 MR. a: Because all this stuff is going into evidence. So, || hurrying, || trying to gather this stuff. So, the log, | | trying to compare it to the rounds, it’s not jiving. So, | | reading the log, and the log is totally - it’s not jiving. The whole thing is - the times, the frames - it’s not jiving. So then, all of the sudden, when || printing out the paperwork from TRUSCOPE, I go back and I look at the log, boom, another log pops up. So, || reading this one, and then, the other log that was there before is deleted. MR. a : And she has the ability to do that? MR. a: Yeah. MR. a: Would the system reflect that she made changes? MR. a: No. It’s not like -- MR. a: Or made changes. MR. QJ: 9 -- it’s not like the roster. The roster is not going to tell you. You know, the roster will tell you who goes in there and manipulates the roster. But not that. MR. a : (Indiscernible *01:58:10). 280 EFTA00126641

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 281 ~] wo 10 11 MR. a: But like I said, then, when | | in passing, because || in the Lieutenant’s Office, and I see across, I look out, because, J you know, the Alpha door, that door that leads out, she’s walking, they let her out through Control Center, at 9:15. i. like, where she been all this time? MR. a : And did you ever talk to her? MR. a: I needed to talk to her. MR. Ee : Did you ever question her MR. GR: = No. MR. QR: No? MR. QJ: §9= I let OIG deal with it. Because once the file came up missing, she didn't report doing rounds. The log was duplicated. I said, something is going on here. I let Mr. | know that. I told the Warden. I told OIG. That was part o Fh 3 Ke i} H don't know why it’s not in there - I talked about that log. MR. a : And was that -- MR. a : I talked about her leaving the institution at 9:15. EFTA00126642

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 282 1 MR. Ee : -- and is that with the FBI present? ies) a Yeah. 4 MR. a : Okay. Yeah. And at 9:15, she left between w a fon) ct ww o a oO co KK i] | wu 'd ue] ial Oo “ on Fit] rt oO a KK | ite] f Cc w s 1s} wo be uw . oo 5 - 2 w e 9 MR a : Just, we have a note in here 10 that the SHU count was corrected by the 11 Lieutenant log, completed by Lieutenant 2 W| tothe midnight time, the midnight 3 count, where she corrected it from 73 to 72. 4 Do you recall reading that? 15 MR. QJ: «Like I said, it was all kind 16 of discrepancies, all kinds of discrepancies on 7 that log. So, | | just trying to gather 8 everything, so I could bring it before the 9 Warden, to let him know what’s going on. 20 Before we put it in the 583. 21 MR. ae : That’s what we talked 22 about. 23 MR. QJ: 9 yeah. 24 MR. a : We already talked about EFTA00126643

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 283 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 MR. a: Do you understand what || saying? MR. a : Like, what he’s talking about is, after these, and I actually cut that out. So, they’re there. MR. a: So, no, but - he’s mentioning - from my understanding is - you’re saying that the log afterwards, or throughout the night? That all night, you got -- MR. QJ: §9owWhen 1 got -- MR. a: -- you were (Indiscernible *02:00:02). MR. a : -- when I was reviewing the log from the night, from 08/09 into 08/10. MR. a: Okay. MR. a: That morning watch log for 08/10? Because it starts off with this one, and then it follows, like this. It was totally bad. It was messed up. It showed - it was a bad log. And then, by the time I was being able to print that log, that log had changed. MR. a: All right. MR. a: And then, another one was there. That’s why I reported it. I don't know why it’s not - I reported that to OIG. EFTA00126644

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 284 1 MR. a: Okay. So, it was a log - 2 overnight log - that got changed? 4 MR. QJ: «11 right. 5 MR. QJ: 11 right. We’ll have to 6 follow up with that. But all right. Ar i] ything else? 8 MR. a: No. That’s it, man. Thank you. That was wo F i=) oO H very, very helpful. Thank you so much for your 11 time. It is currently 2:07 i... on Tuesday, 2 June 15, 2021. This is Senior Special Agent 3 ME with the Dog OIG, and 1 am 4 turning off the recorder. oO co ho No w EFTA00126645

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFICATE 285 I hereby certify that the foregoing pages represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Interview of ay Bcarcn. (ese CS — Brianna Rose Burton, Transcriber EFTA00126646