RR SCwWOnHtDUN SwWwrP APPEARANCES: DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL APRIL 7, 2022 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES CA_ 91301 Agoura Hills Phone: (TT — This is Special Agent . Today is April 7, 2022. The time is 10:21 a.m. The recorder is now on. My name is I’m a Special Agent with the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General, New York Field Office. These are my credentials. I'm going to -. Man. This interview with Federal Bureau of Prisons employee, , is being conducted as part of an official U.S. Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General investigation. Today's date is April 7, 2022. The time is 10:22 a.m. This interview is being conducted at the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General, New York Field Office. Also present are D0J/OIG Assistant Special Agent-in-Charge, — and via phone is - Assistant Special Agent-in-Charge, This interview will be recorded by me, Special Agent Could everyone please identify themselves for the record and spell your last name. To start again, I am a COweon4OnuwfSwnrP = OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: WITNESS: OTHER_APPEARANCES : a 4 D0J/O1G Special Agent IS, SI :__ Assistant Special Agent-in- ”R. ASAC FM, can you introduce yourself, please? Yes, this is Special Agent-in- . : Thank you. This is an official DOJ/OIG investigation into events surrounding the death of inmate Jesse Epstein, and you are being asked to voluntarily provide answers to our questions. Will you agree to a voluntary interview with the D0)/01G? MR. Yes. MR. Please review DOJ/OIG form III-226/2. The form states, United States Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General, Warnings and Assurances form, Assurances to Employee Requested to Provide Information on a Voluntary Basis. “You are EFTA00126336

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rR CSCwWOmOANDMDS fWwNHP RPRRRR We WN Re RR SD ee ee od Se wWwNr Ow CO nm w RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP PRR RP RRP RR COND WMH a a ee ond We wWwrr Ow 5 being asked to provide information as part of an investigation being conducted by the OIG. This investigation is being conducted pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended. This investigation pertains to job performance failure and security failure. This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not have to answer any questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you choose not to answer any questions. Any statement you furnish may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceedings or agency disciplinary proceedings or both.” The waiver states, “I understand the warnings and assurances stated above and I am willing to make a statement and answer questions. No promises or threats have been made to me and no pressure or coercion of any kind has been used against me." This is the same form we've provided you before. MR. : Yes. MR. : Please review it. If you understand, on the right side, please print your name and sign your name. If you understand and agree -- 7 WR. QM: Thank you. Thank you for taking the time to meet with us today. We have a few follow-up questions. . : Mm-hmm. . : You met with us twice Yes. And it’s based on our interview, from prior, we had a few follow-up questions in regards to that, and a few new questions for you, too. MR. : Okay. MR. : Before we begin, what is your current employment status with the BOP? MR. a I’m an electronics technician at MDC Brooklyn, Com Tech. position I was in MCC. WR. QE; And this is your permanent position now? MR. : Yes. MR. : And you transferred over? MR. : Yes, when they closed it down. WR. QM: Okay. So, let's take a step back. In August 2019, what was your Same =— ROW OHMS fwrNP —— wr RPRRR oN Du ee od Wr Ow mre oe RR ae ee RR i) MRRP RRR RRR POoOwCmBADH ew Mmmenmrn Ww Wr Okay. -- sign and print. I will sign and print. Do you understand the Thank This is Special Agent a: signing on the signature of the Office of the Inspector General Special Agent. And ASAC -- a 7 This is -- I'm —_—— -- a I’m ors on the signature of witness Tine. Before starting the . —_ I would like to place you under oath. Mr. , can you please raise your right hand? Do you swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth during this interview? MR. : Yes. MR. : Thank you. You can put your right hand down. Please let me know if Yes. you don’t understand any questions and I'l] try to repeat it or try to rephrase it for you. WR. BE: Okay. typical work schedule? wR. ME: ty schedule was 6:00 to 2:00 p.m. MR. QM: 6:00 to 2:00 p.m. Is that Monday through Friday? MR. —. Monday through Friday. During that time, I think I was working overtime because we started the camera project. MR. : The camera project is? MR. : Before all this got started, we were upgrading the cameras in the MCC. So, my schedule changed, and I was working, like, ten or 12 hours a day during this time. MR. MM: So, Monday through Friday, normal schedule would be 6:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m.? MR. : eight hours. Yes. So, that would be about Yes. : So. if you’re working ten to 12, that means you were working to, what, about 4:00 6:00 p.m.? MR. a. Yes. EFTA00126337

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rR CWO D SWwrNP RPRRRR We WN Re RRR CoN DD a de ood SWwWNr Ow PRR RPE RR Re rm CON Dw SW N rR OW ON DW Sw Nr “ a a ee ond We wWwrr Ow 9 MR. QM: Okay. And what about on the weekends? MR. I was working a little bit of overtime there during that time, too. MR. Okay. And is that something you needed prior approval for, or -? MR. Yes. Well, they knew what was going on, so I got pretty much prior approval. If I showed up, I showed up. If it didn’t, they didn’t really -. Because the project was going on. I have a life, too. I can’t just be working at the prison all the time, so they understood if I didn’t show up or didn’t come in for overtime. Because my regular schedule is Monday through Friday, 6:00 to 2:00. WR. QM: Okay. And as needed, you would come_in, too? MR. Yes. MR. ASAC I, did you have anything in regards to his schedule? MR. :_I did not. Thanks. MR. No problem. I’m going to move on. In our previous interview, you mentioned - - . | | August 9th. MR. : Friday, August 9th. She was working on Thursday, August 8th. . : Yeah. . : According to the schedule, she was working Thursday, August 8th, and the conversation that she told us about happened on - she recalls - that it happened on Thursday, August 8th, Associate Warden J also stated it happened on Thursday, August 8th. MR. Oh, so it must have been Thursday. MR. Okay. MR. I’m not too sure because everything was jumbled in. MR. Okay. And do you recall what the issue was with the cameras? MR. They said they wasn’t recording. MR. QJ: Was that the only issue you remember? Was there anything else with the actual ly MR. MR. Mm-hmen . -- she was off on August =— ROW OHMS fwrNP —— wr RPRRR oN Du ee od Wr Ow mre oe RR ae ee RR i) MRRP RRR RRR POoOwCmBADH ew mmr =e Wh 25 10 you had recalled having a conversation with SIS Lieutenant You remember her, right? MR. Yes. MR. Thursday, August 8th, you had a conversation with her about cameras not working inside the MCC. Do you recall that? Thursday or Friday. Thursday, August 8th. No You don’t recall having a conversation with her? MR. The only time they spoke about it was Friday, about the cameras, that I remember. MR. So, you recall on Friday. Who did you have a conversation with? MR. Lieutenant JJ and that's when I spoke to IMM. She’s the Associate Warden. That’s when they told me that the cameras were down, on that Friday. MR. On that Friday? MR. Yes. MR. So, just_to clarify a little bit. So, Lieutenant [J wasn’t working on Friday, August 9th. They were 12 camera? WR. ME: They couldn't pull video for whatever reason. They couldn’t extract video. They were looking for video for something and they couldn’t find it. MR. So, it wasn’t recording, and they couldn't pull any video? MR. Yes. MR. : Do you remember if there were any cameras -? So, when they were trying to pull video, where were they trying to pull video from? MR. MJ: I have no idea. I don’t really remember what they were trying to pull video from, or why. =: in? WR. HE Probably on the second floor by the - maybe the SIS Office, or it was in the Video Room. MR. J: A11 by the -. difference? MR. The Video Room is where they have the monitors and the SI Office is right down the hallway, where the SIS Office Which office were you guys What's the EFTA00126338

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 PRR RRR RR NDMP WNPRPOWOHDH SWwNP ae ee od WS Wr rs © Ww oc 13 would be. wR. QM; Okay. And do you remember standing there trying to help them pull video? MR. : Yes. MR. : And when you were trying to pull video, do you remember looking up at the screens and seeing any blank screens? MR. In the SIS Shop? MR. In the SIS Shop, or on the monitors. There's a lot of monitors. MR. Oh, the SIS, that was, that has been in and out forever. That was not really working properly even when I got there. There's been issues. There was issues with that. MR. QM: «Can you explain that a little further? MR. : Okay. Video Room or the SIS Shop? MR. I'm not sure where this happened, so based on recollection, if you can tell me, if you recall where this happened? a. If I was looking at So, was it in the MR. multiple monitors, it probably was in the Video Room. That's where they have -. The live feed as far as stuff not working or working. MR. : But you don’t remember them, Lieutenant or , mentioning, hey, listen these screens are blank. There's X's on them, they’re not working. You just mentioned that - just on topic - you just mentioned that there were always issues. MR. Yes, there were always issues. Sometimes, I would go in there and stuff was working. Sometimes, I'd go in there, stuff was not working. Exactly what was working or not working, I'm not too sure of. MR. So, which one was it? Just to clarify. I missed that. Which one was it that wasn’t working -- MR. So, what -. MR. -- the SIS or the Video Room? WR. QM: | It would be the Video Room. It wouldn't be in SIS, because -. Okay, the Video Room is the live feed coming from the analog matrix onto the actual screens. Some of the cables got disconnected because there was issues. And then SIS, that would be all of the cameras in the institution. They would be RR ROW OHMS fwrNP —— wr RPRRR oN Du ee od Wwrerow mr oe RR ae ee RR i) MRRP RRR RRR POoOwCmBADH ew Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 14 goes to the video matrix, and then it's split, and it goes to all the other cameras. MR. So, you're saying if it’s in the SIS Shop, and there was issues in the SIS Shop? MR. No, if it was in the SIS Shop, that’s the network. They're on the computer and they’re trying to pull video. If they're in the Video Room, it’s the live feed that's going to the cameras. MR. : Okay. MR. : And it’s inputted on the screen. It’s split going to the recorder, and it’s split on the output going to the actual screens. Yeah. MR. So, which ones had issues where you couldn't see anything? MR. I don’t know. Because it was a lot of stuff not working at that time. I can’t really -. MR. a. Do you remember any screens being black, like blanked out with X’s on them, at that point? MR. a. I don’t know. It was - that room was always a mess when I got there, 16 coming from the network. They'd be trying to pull video from the actual recorders. MR. So that’s where basically you can log in? MR. a. You log in and you try to pull video. MR. Okay. So, you can - the SIS Shop had the ability to log in -- MR. Yes, pull video. MR. -- and review video. MR. Yes. MR. So, but the other part, the video monitoring -- That’s just live -- -- had to be live wired. . -- that's just live wire, yeah. That's everything coming in. MR. And if the live wires were removed by any chance, would that be a black screen? MR. QJ: Yeah, it would be a black screen, yes. MR. So ,is it possible this conversation might have taken place with Lieutenant inside the Video Monitor EFTA00126339

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 PRR RRR RR NDMP WNPRPOWOHDH SWwNP ae ee od WS Wr rs © Ww oc Room? If she recalls that there was -- wR. QM: «Yeah, if there were screens -- MR. MR. Room, yes. WR. WM: Black screens, okay. So, do you recall her mentioning on August 8th - by any chance, do you recall? I know it’s been a couple years -- MR. Hmm . MR. -- it’s hard to remember, but do you recall her mentioning anything about, hey, there’s blank screens, access that needs to be fixed? MR. I was working on that since I got there. I was still working on that, until I was leaving, so -. It was an ongoing issue I knew about. But the main thing was, even if the screens were blank, that everything would be recorded, going to the recorders. Like, the live view in the Video Room, that's extra. But if you could pull video from the recorders, that’s the main thing I was worried about. I wasn’t really worried -- screens that -. -- that’s in the Video RR ROW OHMS fwrNP RRR rR Ww Wh Okay. “On August 8, 2019, at approximately 3:45 p.m., while reviewing the Nice Camera System, I attempted to recover video footage from the Unit 5 South Housing Unit. At this time, I was unable to recover any previous recordings from the camera, this prompting me to review all of the cameras. None of the cameras on the system were able to record. Therefore, I called the communication technician MMM via radio.” That would be you, right? MR. : Yes. MR. : Okay. “At approximately 4:00 p.m., responded to the third floor Monitoring Room to check the cameras and notified me that the cameras were not recording and there was no way to retrieve any video. BBM stated he fixed the camera system on Friday, August 9, 2019, when he arrived to work.” So, it looks like the memo was written on August 10th and this is in regards to a conversation she had with you on August 8, 2019, and at the end, she stated that you told RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr MRRP RRR Pow OAS about the live view. Okay. That’s something I would have to worry about later. But the main thing was to make sure the cameras are recording in the institution. MR. Okay. And so, this happened, well based on the fact that this happened on Thursday, August 8th, do you recall coming in August 9th fixing anything? On August 9th? MR. I’m pretty sure I did. I must have followed up. Because I was going to come back Saturday to do something, so I know on Friday, that's when I went back to the room. MR. Okay. I’m going to show you a memo. There’s a memo dated August 10th, from ff. , SIS Lieutenant. That would be Yeah. To MB, Captain. Mm=hmm Subject was “NiceVision Camera System.” And for the record, I’m going to read it, and then I’1] show it to you. 20 her on August 9th, you told her on August 10th that, when you came into work on August 9th, you fixed the camera issue. Do you recall] that? VR. SE: | No. *00:12:58). So, I was working after 3:45. on overtime that day she called me? MR. It might have been. MR. Because I leave at 2:00. MR. So, you -. MR. You want to just read through that a ain -- MR. : Yeah. MR. : Yeah. yourself. MR. : == and just -. MR. “At approximately 3:45 p.m. on the Nice System, I attempted to recover -. At the time I was -.” MR. There might be some grammatical -. MR. (Indiscernible So, I was Read through it for Yeah, that doesn’t really WR. QM: Does that seem accurate, to EFTA00126340

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rR CWO D SWwrNP RPRRRR We WN Re RRR CoN DD a de ood SWwWNr Ow nm w RR SCwWOnHtDUN SwWwrP your recollection? No. So, you don’t call fixing anything? WR. QJ: 1 might have been looking at something, but I have to make sure that it’s fixed, like, before I say, hey, you can pull video and I have to pull video myself. MR. But she said there's a possibility that, when you came in on the 9th, you might have fixed the issues with the blank Okay. screens. | And then, you might have MR. MR. came back in on August 10th, which would be that Saturday, to fix the recording issue. Do you think that might be accurate? WR. a. No. That doesn’t really make any sense to me, either. MR. Okay. Do you recall if - I remember we spoke about this before, I don't know if your memory hasn't recollected any of it - but about you not being able to access the SIS Shop because no one was in the SIS Shop. . Yeah, and I don’t have the Yes, he did. Separate from? Yeah. The Captain I think, or the SIS could get in that room. not too sure. wR. HM: «1 know SIS -. Lieutenant HE had her own set of keys. MR. Yeah, could get in with a I’m key. : Okay. MR. : -- but I think the Captain had the key to let me in the room. I'm not too sure. Honestly. MR. You're not certain? MR. I’m not certain. MR. So, the SIS Lieutenant's keys are kept behind some kind of box in the (Indiscernible *00:15:22). MR. Yeah, everything is kept behind glass and the technician's, their keys are kept behind glass. And whoever is in the Video Room, it's behind glass. MR. : Okay. But does the Captain have his own set of keys? MR. Yes. PRR RR SwWwKN PCW OHMS SwMN Pe RPRRR oN Du ee od Wr Ow mre oe Re CWO HM fWwrNP key to get in the room. MR. Okay. MR. I didn’t have access to get in the room. ve. a: Yes, nobody was -. Yes. in the SIS Shop. MR. : MR. : And normally, there would be somebody monitoring the phones, right? MR. a. Yes, there should be a phone monitor, if somebody was there, unless they got pulled to work a different post. WR. Pf Yeah. MR. : But they're supposed to be - that’s supposed to be a post. MR. —: And that Friday, nobody was there? On August 9th, I think they had left early or something to that effect -- MR. + Mm-hmm MR. : -+ and then, you couldn't get in. Do you recall - Lieutenant mentioned to us that Captain I had the ability to get you into the room - do you know if Captain had his own set of keys for that room? Because no one was there 24 . That’s not behind glass? MR. : No. I don’t know how they do the Captain's. I know the SIS Shop, that was the main key and if I tried to get in, it was behind glass, to get in the room. MR. : Do you recall approaching Captain , asking him for access to that room on August 9th? I don’t remember. Okay. Because I know, , Captain was in the facility until about 8:00 p.m. on that Friday night, August 9th? He worked until about Hmm. I didn’t know that. So, but you don’t recall ever seeing him, or talking to him, or asking for access to that room to fix the cameras? MR. No. I don’t remember. Maybe I did, maybe I didn't. I don’t - that’s -. I don’t really -. MR. But if needed, you could have asked Captain [M, he could have let you in? WR. QM; «He would have locked the - Okay. EFTA00126341

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rR CWO D SWwrNP RPRRRR We WN Re RRR CoN DD a de ood SWwWNr Ow hr nm SCwWOnHtDUN SwWwrP w PRR RP RRP RR COND WMH ae od row 25 if he had the key, yes, he would let me know. MR. a. Okay. ASAC I, anything on that topic? MR. : Yeah, in regard to the memo. Mr. , I know that time on August 8th, that_seems way off based on what you had told before, and -- : Mm-hmm. . -- frankly, what [J had told us. The key thing that we wanted to find out is that last line. The “IMM stated he fixed the camera system on Friday, August 9th when he arrived to work." Mm-hmen . So, that’s the main thing we just wanted to confirm. MR. : I don’t think I did that. MR. : Yeah, because the last time, I know our guys explored pretty in depth what happened on August 9th. MR. = Mm-hmm MR. : That was that Friday where it sounds like -- Yes. -- you got the hard drives to 27 WR. QJ: We can move on to the next topic. Okay. MR. : MR. | You mentioned, previously and even now, that there was a camera upgrade going on during that time. . P| Yes. . : Do you recall if there was a contract in place for these upgrades? MR. | Yeah, it was supposed to be NiceVision, but we just ended up doing pretty much everything inhouse because it was taking too long. i you a contract. MR. : Yes. MR. : Do you recognize that contract? vR. MM: Yes. This looks like all the stuff we put in for to upgrade the camera system. n. a: second. MR. : Okay. MR. : Just for the record, I’m Okay. I'm going to show Just so -. Give me one =— ROW OHMS fwrNP —— wr RPRRR oN Du ee od Wr Ow mre oe RR ae ee RR i) MRRP RRR RRR POoOwCmBADH ew 26 go repair the thing. and just couldn’t get in because no one was there, or the phone monitor was leaving. So, we were surprised to see that there was a statement that you may have told someone that you had repaired it on August 9th. So, we just wanted to confirm whether or not ou had told someone, specifically Lieutenant , that you had repaired that system on August “oth. WR. ME: don’t believe so, no. Because I was still working on it so -- MR. :_ Okay. MR. : == I couldn’t do it. MR. : Very good. Thank you, sir, and that is all I have on that , thanks. WR. QJ: Thank you. Just as normal, can you initial and date it? You're attesting to the accuracy, it’s just a document that we showed you. Hmm . Today’s the 7th. It’s that you reviewed it. Oh, today is four -- 4/7. 4/7/22. 28 going to read this out because it’s -- WR. MM. It's very (Indiscernible *00:18:26). MR. : This states the - the contract states up top - it says, MCC New York. And the contract number is GS-O7F-, as in Frank, 0322T, as in Tom. The award effective date is 9/21/2018. And the order number is 15B-, as in boy, NYM-, as in Mary, 18F-, as in Frank, T-, as in Tom, P-, as in Peter, 120150. And the requisition number is 1064-18. Now, that's the document you were reviewing, and you believe that is the camera upgrate? R. GM: The initial, probably the initial one, yes. MR. a. When you say initial? Were there changes? MR. a. Yeah, because they had a contract. This was the original contract, as far as upgrade goes, and then, like a year jater, there was another bid that we put in for more upgrades. MR. : Okay. MR. : But this was the original. EFTA00126342

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rR CSCwWOmOANDMDS fWwNHP 29 MR. QM: And this is dated when again? wR. I: 2018. *00:19:31). Oh, 9/21/2018. . : 2018. Yes. Who was the point of (Indiscernible Were you involved contact “for this? WR. WJ: Steve Smith. He’s, like, the head of Nice. And then, but the main person I would talk to was Justin Houston, but Steve Smith is the brains behind it. I really wouldn’t talk to Steve because he was, like, overseeing it. The main person I would talk to was Justin Houston. MR. : Justin Houston. Okay. MR. : And I called him asking him every question, because I never did fiber before, or network camera systems, so. WR. QM: | A11 right, so Justin Houston is the SigNet point of contact then? . : Yes. , | Okay. Who was the point of contact for BOP then, at the MCC? Who was 31 And he never spoke with -- Anybody. -- SigNet. : SigNet, yeah. So, who spoke with SigNet in regards to the materials and all that? WR. QJ: It was just kind of like a thing -. I would just call this, every once in awhile, hey, did the stuff come in, or what’s going on? But there was really -. WR. MJ: So, you communicated with SigNet? SigNet, yes. MR. | | Yeah. MR. : Okay. Was there anybody else that communicated with SigNet? No, not until [J got And after that it was Yes. Or was it both of you guys together? WR. MJ: «It was pretty much J. He’s in charge, you know. MR. a. Okay. — CSCwWOHUMDMS fwrP when did MM get | 25 30 the point of contact? WR. QM. «That would be the Facility Manager, whoever that was. Or the General Foreman. I'm just -- Who? -- in 2018, so that was (Phonetic Sp. *00:20:12) probably, and then a was the General Foreman. VR. i: PD bad left by August 2018, right? MR. | | Okay. MR. : And then, [I stepped in? Yes. But RY said that he never really communicated in regards to this. MR. : Yes. MR. : Because he said that he doesn't recall the materials arriving -- Mm-hme . -- or any of that stuff. No, he wasn’t there when I don’t think any of this arrived. 32 WR. MMMM. 1 don’t know. Honestly, I don't. It's around this time, like, August or July of 2019. WR. SR: Okay. page four of that? MR. : Yes. MR. : And you mentioned it before, right? What was the name of the recording system that was ordered for the MCC? The Nice -- MR. : Nice or -. MR. : -- the Nice, NiceVision? Yeah, NiceVision. Yes. . And that's the type of system that was ordered, right? Yes. Okay. Do you recall - and this was laced in September of 2018. MR. : Yes. MR. : Do you recall when all the NiceVision, all that stuff in that order was delivered to the MCC? MR. : It was coming in piece-by- piece. Can you flip to EFTA00126343

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rR CSCwWOmOANDMDS fWwNHP RPRRRR We WN Re RPRRR Oona MmMNrnNrnrry WN r Oo nm w RR SCwWOnHtDUN SwWwrP Piece-by-piece. Yeah. It wasn't delivered together? MR. : It might have been, but the warehouse was, like, a mess. So, whenever they told me I had packages, I would go and get it. WR. QJ: Okay. So, what do you recall, what came in first? MR. As far as what came in, mainly the recorders and the new rack, and probably the UPS. MR. : Recorders, and what else? MR. : The UPS and the rack that the recorders would go in. MR. All right. So, the terminology goes over my head. MR. =. Okay, so just the metal hardware that the UPS would go in, and the recorders. WR. WE: So, based on, if you could look at that and tell us what you’re thinking, and off of the page number four. So, Nice. dated October 7th, that’s [. That's you? So, it would be 35 : Yes. : It's dated October 7, October 7. And this is to [i Mm-hmen . . John Hodge and Justin Houston -- MR. MR. Him . -- at SigNetinc.com. MR. Him . MR. And you were asking, “Just following up on the order for the outside PTC cameras expected date of delivery.” . > Mm-hme. . : And looked like Justin Houston responded back on Monday, October 7th, 2019, right? And he says, —. everything was delivered. Most of it on 11/23/2018. The tracking numbers are below.” So, it looks like this is in 2019. MR. Yeah. PRR RR SwWwKN PCW OHMS SwMN Pe RPRRR COND ee od Wr Ow mrNm oe Re CWO HM fWwrNP 34 the hard drives would come in. That's the line item two would come in. The decoders would come in. So, that’s line item five. AMS would come in, line item six. Line item seven would come in. Oh not - yeah. Line item seven would come in. Cameras never came in. Line item ten would come in. And the wall mount never came in, and a media cabinet. So, that line item 14, yeah. MR. MJ: So, they call came in around when do you think? . : I'm not too sure. . : You think soon after the order was placed, or -? MR. a It was a little while because there was stuff on backorder, so it wasn't, like, right away. . : So, was it in 2018, *19? . : Probably in the early part Early part of 2019? . : Yeah. MR. : All right. I'm going to show you an email. This email - I’m going to go back - it looks like it’s an email from you 36 WR. MM: Like, he responded back with tracking numbers for 2018. MR. P| 2018. Okay. MR. : Does that help recollect your memory at all about when those -? MR. a. I don’t remember when all this stuff -. It was a lot of stuff, and I was trying to get space for it, so I’m not -. If that's when they said it came in, that’s probably when it came in. MR. Does that email look familiar? MR. MM: Yes. This email looks familiar. WR. MM: So, that is a communication between you and Justin, and it looks like ,-- Yes. -- and Hodge? MR. : Yeah, later on because, when was this? Yes. : Who's Hodge? MR. : He's the new contact. He came in after the Epstein thing. MR. Okay. And what’s the EFTA00126344

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rR CSCwWOmOANDMDS fWwNHP RPRRRR We WN Re RR SD ee ee od Se wWwNr Ow CO RPE RP RP RRR rE rm SOW SwMre re COW ON DW Sw wr “ ae ee od WS Wr rs © Ww oc communication about the PTC cameras? MR. Oh, those are outside cameras. WR. | | Okay. MR. : Those didn’t really have nothing to do with the recorders or anything. Those are, like, secondary. They had nothing to do with the recording. Again, the recorders and stuff. wR. WM: But you think - when he says that’s in 2018 - you think those are the NiceVision recorders and the decoders and all that mentioned over here? . : Yes. MR. : You think those were delivered - based on Houston’s email - it was delivered in the -. MR. In the end of November, during the holidays, so I probably didn’t get it until maybe January, the first week of January. WR. WM: Okay. Where do you think these items were stored? Once they got delivered? MR. They were - and I mean 39 WR. : Do you know who signed off on these? MR. No. MR. Okay. But someone received them and somehow, it ended up in Building Four? Yes. Okay. And what about - you said that’s some of them - what about the other items? Was there anything housed at the MCC? MR. Yeah. recorders, and I had the rack. I had it stored downstairs or in another room. I remember, because it was important, so I made sure when I came in, I put it in MCC. : Where? : So, we didn’t have to go MR. MR. look for it. It might have been in the 30 Percent Room or in my Video Room, but I think it was in the 30 Percent Room. What’s the 30 Percent I had the It's, right before you go to the loading dock, there’s like a Ready Room RR ROW OHMS fwrNP —— wr RPRRR oN Du ee od Wwrerow mre oe RR ae ee RR i) MRRP RRR RRR POoOwCmBADH ew Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 38 some of it got misplaced because nobody knew what it was, so it went to Building Four, the warehouse. MR. Where’s that? MR. That’s in Brooklyn. right next_to Steiner Studios. MR. This is the Brooklyn Navy Yard? MR. MJ: Yeah, Brooklyn Navy Yard, S. MR. ME; what about the other items? You said some went over. MR. QJ: I think there was a time, Like, maybe this was the other order that the decoders got sent over there. Something got sent over there, it was sent, and nobody knew what it was, and so they just sent it to Building Four. MR. Okay. And who received these orders, do you know? : The warehouse. : The warehouse? Yes. It was shipped to the MCC? Yes. It’s ye 40 that we get stuff in, and there was part of the Lock Shop. So, if I had storage, or didn’t have space for it, I would ask the Lock Shop, hey, can I put this in your room because I don’t have space. MR. a. And it's locked up, it’s secured? MR. Yes, secured. They're the only ones with a key. could get_in there. MR. So, we mentioned everything that's on there, pretty much all the NiceVision equipment, except for the cameras. . > Hmm. . : What happened to the cameras? MR. MM: That's what happened. I think the cameras went to Building Four. I was looking for it, and that’s what ended up at Building Four and maybe some decoders. MR. So, you think all, but that's - you mentioned right now that all the NiceVision equipment ended up there. MR. | Hmm MR. : So, you think the cameras Yeah. Nobody else EFTA00126345

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41 Hmm. MR. : == around this time or back in November 2018? So, that’s two different timings we're talking about. MR. a: Yeah, two different timing, yeah. MR. MM: So, when do you think the cameras got shipped and sent to -? . I think the cameras came also got shipped? MR. a. Yes. Well, they might have got shipped, but nobody told me. Whenever they came in, they came in. I’m not too sure. MR. a. You're not sure what happened to the cameras? . Yeah. . Do you believe the cameras got shipped or no? WR. WJ: Yeah, they got shipped, but they ended up going to Building Four. Whenever they came in because I remember looking for them and that was one of the things, I had to figure out what happened to the actual - because we were going to network cameras - so I had to figure out where they were at. And they weren’t at the rear gate. MR. : Okay. When do you recall looking for them? WR. QM: «I don’t really remember. This is probably around the same time I probably sent this email. I was trying to figure out where everything was at. WR. QM: The cameras. So, do you think the cameras went to Building Eight -- rR CSCwWOmOANDMDS fWwNHP =— ROW OHMS fwrNP Okay. The recorders and everything came right away. Okay. Yeah. So, when do you think the RR wr RPRRRR We WN Re i — RR a cameras came? MR. MM: Probably after all of this, so maybe in November. . : Okay. . : No, not November. So, it probably came around November 19th, that’s when everything. Yeah. MR. —. So, November 2019, after Epstein? 43 44 you an email. This email is from you dated September Sth, 2019, at 8:52 a.m. to J , BB Matthew Bailey, Justin Houston, and Steve Smith. Mm-hmm . Subject is “MCC New York rR ~ RPRRR oN Du mre row ee ee od Se wWwNr Ow CO mnNrn = wPM nm w nm Ww Yes, after Epstein. : Do you know why there was such a big delay and why (Indiscernible *00:28:40)? MR. : Because, like, when you order cameras, if you're going to order, like, 300 cameras there’s usually a backlog of six months or eight months. It’s not going to be something you're going to get right away from a vendor. WR. MJ: Was there any other reason why the cameras were not shipped? WR. MJ: «0h, and there may be a signature or something. Because I wasn’t in charge, so I couldn’t really sign for anything. That was a part of the problem. So, when stuff was getting ordered. WR. —. Was there ever communication between MCC, were you able to (Indiscernible *00:29:05) any communication between MCC or yourself and SigNet, asking SigNet not_to ship the cameras? MR. =. No. I would never tell them not to ship the cameras. No. MR. a. So, we're going to show Mm-hinmn . : And that’s the initial emai | and it looks like there’s a response back from Justin Houston. The initial email from you states, “Good morning. There’s a discrepancy with 135 dome cameras.” . ; Mmn=hmm : “The proposal part number was Wycon IQ M62WRB9. MR. P| Mm-hmn MR. : I received 135 of Wycon cameras part number,” and it states a part number. “What is the best way to fix this problem? The cameras I received are not part of the approved hardware list for the BOP.” MR. + Him. MR. : Justin Houston responds on September Sth, at 8:58 a.m., “IRM, this RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RR ae ee RR i) PRP RPP PPE SUDHA wWNe RRR RP RPRR Woy w mre reo mre wh a a ee ond We WN Ow nm => nm wa EFTA00126346

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 PRR RRR RR NDMP WNPRPOWOHDH SWwNP ae ee od WS Wr rs © Ww oc 45 issue is the model number changed because you had us wait_to order the cameras.” MR. : Hmm. MR. : “The cameras you received are part of the replacement model.” Hmm. : “My recommendation, with the rush to get all this installed, would be to open a magic ticket and request it be added to the approved list. MR. : Hmm. MR. : The biggest issue we have right now is that 90 percent of the cameras on the approved list are EOL.” Take a look at this and let me know if you recognize that emai]. WR. J: Yes, I remember this email, yes. MR. : Okay. MR. : But I’m not in charge of saying you can't send cameras, so. MR But that says you - the statement up top from Justin is - it clearly states that you told him to hold off on ordering and sending the cameras. 47 where to house the cameras. WR. MM: Yeah, that was the biggest issue, yes. WR. MJ: So, there's no way to house the cameras, so you told him not to ship the cameras, hold off on shipping the cameras until you get the okay for shipping the cameras, until there’s space to do it. MR. > Mm-hmm. MR. : Until you guys have space to house the cameras. MR. > Mm=-hme. MR. : Because 300 cameras. I think the order states there’s about 300 cameras -- Mm-hmmn . -- right? Yes. That’s a lot of cameras. Yeah. . I'm guessing you need a lot of space. MR. : Yes. MR. : So.. this - I mean, I’m not saying there's anything wrong with it, RR ROW OHMS fwrNP —— wr RPRRR oN Du ee od Wwrerow mr oe RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr MRRP RRR Pow OAS Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 46 MR. QM: Hold on. No, we’re trying to figure -. Not hold off, but we have to make sure that - anything we install on the BOP network - we have to make sure that it's approved on the list as far as for (Indiscernible *00:31:29) and everything else. We can’t just order anything and get it installed. So, if the original part number was for these cameras, they would have to ship these cameras. And if the part number changed before they send it to us, they have to notify if the part number changed, then we have to get it approved through Computer Services before we install them. We can't just install anything on the network. WR. QM: Okay. Just to give you an understanding. We spoke with Justin Houston -- MR. + Mm-hmm.. MR. : -- and one of the things that Justin Houston told us is they send you all that stuff, and in his communication with you, you advised hin not to ship the cameras -- Cameras. -- because there’s no like, My “hi it. nate = house it. Yes. can ar = But if that’s a comuncation between both you guys, just be up front and say, hey, no, I told him to hold off on it. MR. QM: «No. The hold off was, this - the cameras have to be approved on a (Indiscernible *00:32:38) list. And the problem was the cameras that I had requested, BOP went and changed, whoever in Central Office - the original proposal was for access cameras and the problem was these cameras were not going to work on the NiceVision. When you added them to the software app. I make sure every time we got something that it’s going to work, because I know when you order a big bulk like that, you can’t just send it back. You can't say, hey, I don't have the right stuff, Mm-hmm. — Mm-hmm. Right, hey, there’s Mm-hinen . If that is an issue, you we had nowhere to house it. EFTA00126347

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rR CWO D SWwrNP RPRRRR We WN Re RRR CoN DD a de ood SWwWNr Ow nm w RR SCwWOnHtDUN SwWwrP 49 because it’s not going to work. And that’s part of the problem now. Because these Wycon cameras, 300 of them, I don’t know if they’re at MCC now, but when I was leaving MCC, they were never installed because the next year the Pogo cameras got installed because the Wycon cameras never really worked with the NiceVision. That’s why I was telling everybody to hold off. Because I knew it was going to be a problem with the network. wR. WE: Okay. clarifies. MR. : Yes. MR. : So, when this order was placed, and this bulk order was placed, you're saying there was an issue with the cameras? WR. QM: Yes, yes. Because they have to have a certain plug-in to work on the system, and we have to make sure, hey these are the cameras we're going to order, and these are the ones that are going to get installed. BOP, somebody changed the part number and I'm, like, hold off on it, we've got to make sure these cameras are on our approved list, because they have to sign off on it. If it’s not on the So that's what Right away. Right away, okay. Yes. Who did you contact in regards to -? MR. : I contacted Justin Houston and I told about the problem, as far as the cameras. But FJ wasn’t there . a: This is going back to November -- . : Oh. | -- November, it was shipped: the order was placed in September -- September. -- of 2018. Yeah. Let's just say October. Yes. The estimate was October. Mm-hmen . Did you contact anybody at BOP and let them know, hey, listen, there’s a problem with the order? MR. QM: «I spoke to whoever was in charge at that time. So, Maybe yet. PRR RR SwWwKN PCW OHMS SwMN Pe RPRRR oN Du ee od Wr Ow mrNm oe Re CWO HM fWwrNP 50 approved list, you can’t have these cameras in the institution. Okay. Because it’s just a big So, that’s why -- (Indiscernible *00:33:47). -- so, that’s why you told him to hold off on -- MR. : Yes -- -- shipping it? -- shipping it, yes. So, you had to verify the Mm-hme . -- part number? Yes. But this, I know you're talking about this, but this really has nothing to do with - ‘Okay. Yeah. So, that’s back in - when did you ‘tell them, when did you initially figure out the fact there was an issue with the parts that were ordered? 52 Because he I spoke to Computer Service JM. would have to send a trouble ticket to get it approved; these cameras approved on the list. MR. MM: So, you think Computer Services -- Mm-hinm. Mm-hinn . And you think you spoke to him and told him -? UR. MEM: Because you have to send ina trouble ticket, like this says, to make sure it’s approved on the list before it gets ordered. MR. MM: So, he would have to create a trouble ticket -. MR. MM: Ticket to get this approved, Indiscernible *00:34:49). MR. : And do you remember creating a ticket at all? MR. : I’m pretty sure, if it says I spoke to , then he yeah (Indiscernible *00:35:07). Yeah ma. yeah, he was aware of it. The Wycon cameras. Because the part number changed. EFTA00126348

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rR CWO D SWwrNP RPRRRR We WN Re RRR CoN DD a de ood SWwWNr Ow nm w RR SCwWOnHtDUN SwWwrP 53 MR. QM: | But it basically sounds like, based on what he said, the part number changed because it was -. MR. Everything waited too Because I can't -- MR. -- (Indiscernible *00:35:22 MR. -- yes, and I can’t sign off on it. That's why was on the email because he’s the one that has to sign off on cameras. I can't sign off on anything. I can do my recommendations, but I can’t sign off and get anything shipped to the institution. MR. But that's different from long. habit. what you said about the part number not matching up to what you wanted -- Mm-hmmn . -- to him stating that, You waited too long, yes. -- you waited too long. Yes. That's two different That's two different 55 never worked on the system. We never even installed these cameras. MR. So, the dome cameras never got installed? MR. We had them on hand when they came in eventually, but we have to order - the next year, those are the cameras we installed. I installed a few of these cameras and I had issues, so we had to go to Pelco from the order from the next year. MR. So, no matter what, you had issues, but do you recall telling Justin - or you said, right now, that you told Justin to hold off because there was issues with the cameras. MR. MR. right off the back. MR. And it has to get approved on the (Indiscernible *00:36:57) list. It was two different issues, but -. MR. Okay. So initially, you recognized there was an issue and you told vR. Minh. (Indiscernible *00:36:55). You recognized an issue PRR RR SwWwKN PCW OHMS SwMN Pe RPRRR oN Du ee od Wr Ow mre oe Re CWO HM fWwrNP 54 things, yes. MR. So, what - based on this, like, according to the contract - what was the cameras that you guys ordered? MR. a. 350, (Indiscernible *00:35:49) licenses. MR. No, I think it was split up. I think it was 75 and -. MR. Oh. (Indiscernible *00:35:57). Yes, this part number right here. MR. And you -. you read it out so we can -. MR. 1QM62WR-B9. Mike-6-2-Whisky-Romero - Bravo-9. MR. And there’s another one, too, right? Because that's only one set of cameras. MR. MJ. That's the pointer cameras. That really didn't have anything to do with it. These are the dome cameras. MR. So, there was nothing wrong with the dome cameras? MR. They never really worked - even when they changed the part number, this VR. I: -- BE at Computer Services. MR. Through Computer Services. MR. And you guys created a ticket, -- Oh, 10. What -? Can One Quebec- 56 . : Ticket. MR. : == and back in October, November 2018? ‘18, right, because -. : This is all °19. But that’s '19. Yeah. But I’m talking back then. Oh, back here? . Back here, when the initial order -. MR. : Yes, I told him that there was going to be an issue. But I can’t really - I mean I can tell them, hey, hold off, but they're going to ship whatever they’re going to ship. MR. MM: 0h, so, I should clarify. So, maybe that’s where the confusing part is. Justin said over here. MR. Mm-hinmn MR. You're talking about 2018. EFTA00126349

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rR CWO D SWwrNP RPRRRR We WN Re RRR CoN DD a de ood SWwWNr Ow nm w RR SCwWOnHtDUN SwWwrP 57 Yes. MR. : MR. | | His statement to us was, when those recorders in 2018 were shipped -- MR. : Yep. MR. : -- he didn’t ship out the cameras -- The cameras. . -- in 2018 because based on his conversation with you in 2018. Yes. The part number was Yes. No, no. That’s not what Oh. He said that you stated that th was no where to house -- House them, yes. -- a cameras -- -- ain 2018, so you asked him we jon off on shipping. Yeah, we had to figure out —_ mes, There was -- But just to -. -- there was a lot of some sf 59 (Indiscernible *00:38:30). Line 12 needs to be changed to the part number at -- MR. > Mm=-hme. MR. : == 334 each.” That means - and he, Justin Houston, pointed us to this saying that’s when he got the final all-clear. Final, okay, yes. From MCC to finally order the parts. wR. QM: «Yeah, because there was, there had to be a signature and I couldn’t sign for it. That was another problem, too, because there was nobody in charge. No bills am I assigned for, to get this stuff - hey, these cameras got to get here, somebody’s got to sign for it. Because during this time, when this happened, there was really nobody in charge. I think, I don’t know if was still there or not there, but to get the cameras shipped, there had to be a signature, and I couldn't sign for anything. MR. : So, there was no - a signature wasn't needed for the recorders? Because the recorders are an expensive part. wR. MJ: «The recorders. Yeah, it's PRR RR SwWwKN PCW OHMS SwMN Pe RPRRR oN Du ee od Wr Ow mrNm oe Re CWO HM fWwrNP stuff going on. MR. a. And then, he didn’t receive any communication from you up until later on -- 2019. -- in 2019. Mm-hmm. — Mm-hmm. And we have - let me show you another email. This is dated - this is another email, but this is not between you and him. This looks like Justin Houston -- MR. + Hmm. MR. : -- to Fred Pridemore at SigNet, Inc. MR. + Mm-hmm., MR. : Fred Pridemore. is dated August 19, 2019. . : Okay. . : Right. It says, “Fred, I finally got the all-clear from the site to order the cameras -" -- Yes. “-- on this job." Yes. “Lines ten to 14 on the 60 an expensive part, but the cameras, I couldn’t sign off on. Because remember, I was going back and forth about the cameras, hey, I don’t think these cameras are going to work. They already shipped that stuff for whatever reason. When it came to the cameras and I was, like, I don’t think this is going to work, and they actually needed another signature, and I couldn’t sign for it. I couldn't say, hey, change the _part_number. MR. a. Wait a minute, say that again? Explain that slowly. MR. : Okay. So, I knew initially that the cameras weren't going to work on the system. Because I had spoke with Justin. And then, I has to sign off on it. And then I spoke to -- This is 2018 or *19? 19. No, no. Oh. Forget about ‘19. 19. Let's speak about -- 18. And this Let’s go -. EFTA00126350

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rR CSCwWOmOANDMDS fWwNHP 61 . : -- '18 only. MR. : Only ‘18. Yes. I just knew it was a problem, so I probably told them, hey, hold _off on shipping the actual cameras. . Okay. So -. Until we figure out, like, where we're going to house it, and what’s going to go on with the cameras. WR. MJ: Okay. So that’s, you held off. And the next communication, the next time you told him -- MR. : Ship it. MR. : -- ship the cameras would be after -- Yes. -- Jeffrey Epstein’s Yes. Okay. That's what we Oh, sorry. That’s it. Everything else that happened. afterwards makes no difference, but - MR. a. Difference. Yh. 63 WR. J: Not getting the cameras, Well, it.was -. MR. : It was not the model. MR. : The model was an issue, and then storage. Because when I spoke to Justin about this, the initial, if this is the -. This is not what we sent up to BOP. The initial, everything that I sent up to BOP, everything was supposed to be access cameras. They went up to the Central Office, they get another approval. They change the part number. When I saw the part number, I'm, like ,wait, hold a minute -- Okay. -- this is wrong. Okay. Yeah. And we don’t have space for it_an way -- . : Okay. . : == $0, can you hold off And that's after this initial -- MR. MR. PRR RR SwWwKNrPOCOW OHMS fWwNP RPRRR COND ee od Wr Ow mrNm oe Re CWO HM fWwrNP 62 MR. QJ: A1] right, so that was - everyone held off and it only because logistical] there was no way to house them? There was no way -- Okay. -- to make sure they were Okay. : Because you can see, that's a a lot of money. You can’t just - and everything disappears there. MR. a: And 350 cameras is a lot of cameras to house. Yes. Understood. : Yeah. Do you mind if I -- Go ahead, sorry. -- just clarify. In ‘18, and just want to clean this up. In 2018, it was a matter of the storage -- The storage. -- was the issue. Yeah. Yeah. And not -. That's fine. : Yes. Okay. But none of that, like, , none of that was addressed up until -- Until this. - ‘19. Yes. The end of 19? Yes, when the actual, they were going to get installed. We had to make sure that everything was going to work on the network. , Sorry. ASAC IE. . : Yeah, I'll ask one question now, and then I'll let you ask a couple of more, looking at your question list. Once you had the space and they had the right cameras in October 2018, were you guys at the institution in a position to install those right away, anyway? : No. No. Okay. All right. It took - even after that happened - it took TDY help about a year and a EFTA00126351

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 65 half pulling fiber through the whole building, upgrading the infrastructure before we could even install cameras. And then -- MR. + Okay. MR. -- (Indiscernible *00:41:45) to install the cameras, that was another -_yeah. MR. : Yeah. I just wanted to confirm that, and I think will ask you a couple more questions now about what you were getting into. MR. Okay. MR. : Thanks. MR. At that point, now let’s talk about August 10, 2019. Like, this is the day that -- WR. | | Yeah. Yeah. MR. : -- Mr. Epstein died. How much of that conduit and wiring was actually completed? WR. GJ: I think we started one housing unit, and then I started -. MR. That’s all that was completed at that point? Well, as far as the WR. QJ; «I'm talking an idea at that point. MR. :_ Yeah. I think during that and came TDY, that’s when 67 time, if maybe one housing unit was totally piped in and maybe ready to go, but even then, it wasn’t ready to go because you still needed a fiber upgrade. We could have put it on single mode, but it would have had issues. It wasn't -. And then, we still didn’t even have CAT-5. There was a lost of stuff we just didn’t have to finish the upgrade. MR. Okay. So, after Mr. Epstein’s death, did they bring in more employees? MR. Yes, they brought a lot of TDY help, and that’s when a lot of stuff happened. MR. And once they brought in all the employees, how long did it take to actually put the - forget about the cameras - how long did it take to put the wiring in? MR. After Epstein’s death - so they were closing down the prison in August of, well, we found out August-September. I was RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR Oo OUD wr mre reo Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 66 infrastructure, yes. Because I think out of the TDY - I don’t know when - I know there was TDY help when first came. It was and (Phonetic Sp. *00:42:39). They came from Texas. And we pretty much fired up one unit to make sure, hey, this is how we're going to - because we have to pipe all that in for the cameras. You have to put a conduit in. You can’t have the wires exposed, into each camera. And where are you going to actually set the cameras up. So, that took, like about a month for us to do that -. The first unit took like a month. MR. are at the MCC? MR. And how many housing units So, there's the female unit, unit on the second floor. The WITSEC Unit on three. 5 North, 5 South. 7 North, 7 South. 9 North, SHU, 10 South, 11 South, 11 North. So, 11 housing units. MR. QJ: And as of August, only one housing unit_was done at that point? MR. I don’t really -. Honestly, I don’t remember. There’s a lot going on. 68 still working, like, two or three times a week on overtime installing conduit, and running wires, and installing cameras. And even with all that said, there was still - I remember I went through all 11 housing units - I still didn't finish 11 South because that’s open dorm. Unit Two never got finished and the sallyports never got finished. And some outside cameras. So, even after that happened, three years, it still was a long undertaking. MR. So, even after three years completed? MR. It wasn't completed when we left, and they shut down that jail. As far as the IP cameras, that was not completed, no. MR. And that was just the wire itself that_never got completed? MR. GM: No, no. Just hooking up cameras and the wiring. We put in -. Pretty much set up the infrastructure where each floor you could go to a hub to install cameras everywhere. Yes. -- it’s still not EFTA00126352

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 PRR RRR RR NDMP WNPRPOWOHDH SWwNP ae ee od WS Wr rs © Ww oc 69 Yeah. MR. : But as far as finishing the actual units, some of that was not complete, no. MR. Okay. And do you recall when the majority of the work was done? MR. —. I was, like, I was working overtime all the time, so it was -. MR. Was it like a couple of months? Three months, four months? MR. It was a couple of years. I was still working on it -- MR. It was still ongoing? MR. -- yeah. It was still ongoing. I was still working on it. It was never really complete. Because COVID happened. We had TDY help, and we had the gun thing, where we had more people come in. So, there was a lot_of stuff that needed to -. MR. So, they were continuously being people TDY to help with it? MR P| Yes. MR. : Okay. And did the people actually continue doing work for the cameras, or were they pulled out to do other things? 71 started doing everything in-house. We started - well I started - just installing cameras, and putting them up, and letting them start recording. So, you have more view. Because one camera we had on the unit, that wasn’t going to solve everything. So, we had one camera on the unit, and after, like, all this started happening and especially, a staff member got assaulted. That's why I added another camera on the network, one on top of the bubble, so you could see like - it’s a 270 - so, you can see like this way. You can pretty much see the whole unit. So, that’s the best I could do at the time for all of the housing units that only had one camera. And then, eventually we started going unit by unit and just installing 12 to 13, however many cameras on each unit. MR. Okay. And how long did SigNet stay after Mr. Epstein’s death? Did they come_and stay for a while -- MR. : Oh, yeah, I wouldn't -- MR. : -- to finish up everything, or did they -? RR ROW OHMS fwrNP —— wr RPRRR oN Du ee od Wwrerow mr oe RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr MRRP RRR Pow OAS Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 70 MR. QM: They were pulled out to do other things too, when it came to UI. MR. a: What was SigNet’s role in the installation? MR. They were supposed to do a boatload of work, but we ended up doing a lot of the work inhouse. MR. : *00:45:54). MR. : Yeah. Because -. MR. : Because over here on line, where is that line? Look SigNet labor says That’s (Indiscernible 43,000 yeah. What was their job? : Their job. Okay, so the main thing we were supposed to do was run pipe everywhere and, like -- WR. MMMM You guys were? Like, the MCC. MR. MM: -- right. MCC was supposed to run the pipe everywhere, put the box up, and they were just going to come in and mount the cameras up and put it on the network, but it was going to take too long, so we just 72 MR. GM: No. After Mr. Epstein’s death, that's when they came and installed the recorders. Because this was all on-hand, the new recorders and the rack. But they had to get the okay for them to - well, and I called Justin, too, about this. I was, like, hey we're on the list, but we weren't on the list Okay. to get upgraded. MR. : MR. : So, but then this happened, so they came, like, the next day, and I stayed there to -. MR. weeks -? MR. MM: 0h, just a couple days. Just to get the new recorders in. MR. : That's it? Yeah, it was -. They didn't help with the They stayed for a couple cameras? MR. No. MR. So, you guys still installed the cameras yourselves? MR. Yeah, we installed all the cameras. EFTA00126353

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rR CSCwWOmOANDMDS fWwNHP RPRRRR We WN Re RR SD ee ee od Se wWwNr Ow CO RPE RP RP RRR rE rm SOW SwMre re COW ON DW Sw wr “ ae ee od WS Wr rs © Ww oc 73 WR. QM: ASAC I, anything else on that? wR. WM: Yeah, a couple of questions. So, based on what you just said, I just want to make sure I'm clear. We talked about the fact that if you had the new cameras in October of 2018, you would not have been able to install them based on the lack of wiring. MR. Yes. MR. : So, let me ask the same thing about August 10th, the day of Epstein’s death. If you had received the cameras before that day, would you have been able to install them before that time? MR. : No. MR. : Okay. And, because it looks like - yeah - the cameras I think finally came in October 2019. The second question is - let me get back to my notes here - after Epstein’s death, as you just said, SigNet came in, they got the new recorders up and running, and you were able to have video coverage with the old cameras on the old recorders, correct? vR. SM: Yes. want to refer to the email yourself -- MR. Mm-hmen . MR. -- I'll provide it to him. MR. : Yeah, so basically ,my question was going to be in regard to that materials from that contract came in? MR. This was -. primarily wiring, from my understanding of the order. : The cable. MR. : Yeah. MR. : Is this fiber? I don’t -. didn’t have fiber anything. MR. Okay. You didn’t have WR. QM: Maybe we had fiber, but then we had to do another order for fiber order for -? I want to read this just for the record. This says -. This is from contract, do you know approximately when the MR. : And again, it looked to be MR. No, that came a little bit later, because we fiber -? eR. MMMM: Joa this, 1s 4¢ the new who's i? RR ROW OHMS fwrNP —— wr RPRRR oN Du ee od Wwrerow mre oe RR ae ee RR i) MRRP RRR RRR POoOwCmBADH ew Mmmenmrn Ww Wr MR. MMMM: So, it’s not like the institution was without -- MR. Cameras, no. MR. : == Cameras, yeah, between -. MR. The cameras were always working. That's the misinterpretation of the whole thing. MR. Okay. MR. : The cameras were always working. MR. MB: A011 right. I just wanted to make sure to get that on the record as well. And the final question - I don’t think, , you were going to ask this - is in regard to the other contract, Anixter, I believe is the company. MR. Yes. MR. (Indiscernible *00:49:10). MR. Indiscernible *00:49:11). MR. I had a (Indiscernible *00:49:12). I'll show him the email also. WR. WM: Yeah. Perfect. Okay. Then I'll let you -. a: No, no. You can ask the MR. question. I'l] give him the email, so, if you 76 MR. QJ: 0h, that’s the contracting officer at the time. He took (Phonetic Sp. *00:50:05) spot. the cashier. MR. : Program Specialist? MR. | Yes, yes. MR. : Okay. And it was sent to a bunch of people includin (Phonetic Sp. *00:50:14), : yourself, and it says, subject is “Anxiter TP12240 and SigNet tech." It says, “Good afternoon, Ms. After reviewing my cost report for the Central Office samples, I went ahead and asked , our Com Tech, on the status of these particular POs, and he advised me that they haven't been able to receive the fiber cable, and without the cable, they can’t proceed with the camera systems.” MR. Mm-hinen . MR. “He mentioned that the company is requiring some sort of documentation. He should be able to provide you with the details.” MR. Yeah, because I - like I He was, like, He's a - it says Financial EFTA00126354

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rR CWO D SWwrNP RPRRRR We WN Re RRR CoN DD a de ood SWwWNr Ow nm w RR SCwWOnHtDUN SwWwrP 77 said - I couldn't sign for anything. So, somebody else would have to sign it. I could advise as much as I can, but I can’t sign it. WR. QR: So, you recall, that’s not the new order, that was the previous? wR. MJ: Yeah, probably the previous order. And fiber was never used? Yes, it was used, yes. Later on? Later on, yes. But not for the initial - The initial thing was to. try to get - vel), ‘get the pipe in, and then do a fiber. WR. a . piping already there? So, told us that you guys had, like, the conduits laid in Building Four. MR. : I didn’t know anything about that. WR. GM: Or was that ordered (Indiscernible *00:51:17)? WR. MJ: That was maybe for something else, or maybe it was ordered. I don't know. 79 at least at that point, you guys had not received the Anixter materials. Do you have any idea when that finally showed up? MR. QM: It was so much stuff coming in, and like I said -- MR. | MR. : == we had very limited space, So. WR. | I understand. MR. > Mm=-hme. MR. HORNEE: I just wanted to see if you had a recollection. Thanks. I have -. And that is all I have, VR. NI: No problem. I have another email here. It looks like it’s a communication between yourself and Justin Houston on Friday, March 22nd, and -? What year? 2000? 2019. Okay. Mm-hmm. : And it says, “Good morning. Is it possible to overnight some cameras for MCC New York project?” And you were asking PRR RR SwWwKN PCW OHMS SwMN Pe RPRRR oN Du ee od Wr Ow mrNm oe Re CWO HM fWwrNP 78 MR. (ERM: where did you guys get the conduits to run? WR. BR: Mainly, I got most of my conduit from Sheridan. That was the vendor I So, you guys bought it? Yeah, locally, yes. Locally. And so, you bought the conduits from them. What about the wiring itself? WR. MM: That was from Anxiter. Because that’s the CAT-6 I use. I got everything from Anixter. MR. a. All right, so it was from an outside vendor? Yes, yes. Okay, so there was actual contracts for that. WR. MM: Yes. For the fiber, yes. The conduit, we just placed the order and just bought conduit when we needed it, as much as we needed to_do a_unit. MR. : Okay. MR. : And so, again, I think that email was from April 2019, so it sounds like, 80 him, “I would like to mock-up a unit before we bet started to see what we needed -- MR. + Mm-hmin, MR. : -- 20 dome IPs, five 180- degree IP,” five - I mean two PTC, dome IPs. . P| Yes. . : Do you recognize this . | | And this is prior to them shipping the cameras. This is just -. Do you know why you asked them for these cameras? MR. =. That’s probably when we finished the piping on our unit. So, it was probably in March when we finished the piping. Which unit was that? 11 North, maybe. So, this is the first unit Yes. Yeah, we did, yes. Okay, so this is the first unit you’re trying to get done, so -. But this was before the cameras, anything came in? MR. : Yes. MR. : So, you started doing one EFTA00126355

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRRR we wre RR SD ee oll ood Wher © Wo 81 unit? wR. QM: Yes, we did one unit, as far as the piping and see where you're going to put everything. MR. : So, this is basically, you ordered these pieces just to see where everything would fit? MR. a. Yes, and how would it work on our system. WR. WM: Okay, no problem. I'm going to jump onto the next set of questions. Is that okay? MR. : Yeah, yeah, it’s good with me. I’ve got everything on the previous subject that I needed. Thank you. WR. QM: Okay. Now regarding the NiceVision System, can you confirm that only the SIS staff and electronics technicians had the ability to replay, save and export videos, or could certain other staff, like captains, lieutenants, anyone else review or save recorded footage as well? MR. a. I think the captain has authorization. Lieutenants? I'm not too sure if they had authorization to pull video to -. 83 Maybe the lieutenants had it. I would have to see the usernames. I'm pretty sure the lieutenants should have had it. I’m not too sure. WR. MJ: Okay. So, you're not sure. You think maybe the captains, maybe the lieutenants? : No. : Captains definitely? : The captain and SIS definitely had the ability to pull video and look at video. MR. : And Com Techs. MR. : And the Com Techs. The lieutenant’s office? Some of the lieutenants I think had their own password to look at a video, in case something happened. Just to look at video. WR. MJ: Is that different (Indiscernible *00:55:03) between like an operations lieutenant and activity lieutenant? WR. MM: Activity, yes. Depending on - because you got your GS-11 and GS-9 lieutenant. wR. GM: So, there's a possibility RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr MRRP RRR Pow OAS Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 82 Because sometimes they’d have to send a packet up, so I don’t know if it was the SIS or the lieutenants that saved video. Every institution is kind of different when it comes to who can pull the video. MR. —. Is there something called SuperVision? SuperVision, yes. | | So, you would have to have a specific log-in for it? MR. Se No, SuperVision - yes, you would have to log for - well, no. But SuperVision is just mainly for passwords and stuff. It's not really for anything else. "R. GM: 0h, okay. But to view it, but don’t you have to log in to see? MR. a: Yeah, that’s the regular NiceVision -- MR. : Okay. MR. : == that’s in control. just have to have access to Control. That's the part of NiceVision. MR. QM: And who had access to that, just the captains and the Com Techs? MR. a. Just the Com Techs, yeah. the operations lieutenant had access? MR. : Access, yes. MR. : Okay. For the standard NiceVision users - example, anyone outside the use as identified in, like, let's say for the people like the captain, lieutenant, things like that - can you confirm that those users were only able to view live video feeds? MR. QM: Well, it's depending on how you set up everybody's profile. Somebody's profile you can - mainly SIS - they can pull video under that profile. If you were a lieutenant, you can probably just view live viewing. Because there’s - Nice comes and pretty much sets that all up before you even get -. MR. : MR. : MR. : to go back? MR. MM: I think maybe the lieutenants, too, because if there’s a fight or something, and they needed to look back at video, and if SIS wasn’t there, they probably would need access to look back. You They can see live video? Yeah. Okay. Who had the ability EFTA00126356

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rR CWO D SWwrNP RPRRRR We WN Re RRR CoN DD a de ood SWwWNr Ow nm w RR SCwWOnHtDUN SwWwrP The captain? Captain. SIS? SIS. Com Techs? Com Techs. So, basically anyone who had access should have technically have the ability to review back. MR. : To look back, yes. MR. : What about Control? Control just live view? WR. QM: Live view, yes. And that’s something we added later. They never had a password until - well, until we started upgrading the system. 1. Okay. stayed live -- MR. : Live view. MR. : == they couldn't mess with Their screens just Yeah, they couldn’t go back 11 hi ac or. pu anyt ing, no. 1? Okay. two questions? WR. QJ: | They just have the control. But even in control sometimes, you can play back video that’s there with just the controller setting. You don’t need SuperVision actually on that computer. If your log-in permits you to go that far. rR : Okay. And so, on that, Mr. J, 1) there’ s just various desktops, if you will, computers throughout the institution that had NiceVision installed. Yes. And if you had an account, you could get_in there, correct? MR. : Yes. MR. : Okay. And are there a lot of shared computers in the institution? MR. : Yes, everybody shares. MR. : Is that right? Like, like any other institution? MR. : Yes. MR. : Okay. Al] right. all I have on that. Thanks. WR. QM: Did the facilities manager also have keys to the dedicated room containing Anything on those 87 And that’s PRR RR SwWwKN PCW OHMS SwMN Pe RPRRR oN Du ee od Wr Ow mrNm oe Re CWO HM fWwrNP 86 MR. MM: Nope, I’m good. So, it sounds like there's just a couple of types of accounts. One is where you can rewind, save and export video, and the standard user account is just looking at the live feed. Is that correct? Yes. : Okay. Okay. Thank you. Now for - because they're standard, as we mentioned, there's different users, right? Standard user and, like, the other type of users. Mm-hinmn . Can they log in from any computer, or -? WR. QM: Yes, any computer that has NiceVision on the computer. MR. MM: 0h, so it had to be pre- installed? WR. MJ: Yes, it had to be pre- installed. And some computers just have control, they don’t have access to SuperVision, or to, like, go back and play video. . a. Yeah. 88 the camera DVR system? . : Not that I know of. No. . : So, it’s just the Coms WR. Well, where the DVRs are, SIS had that_key. I never had access to it. Oh SIS, sorry, I said it Yeah, the SIS. Only the SIS. Yeah. So, the facilities managers - MR. TO We didn't have keys to get in that room. Because that was the SIS. I mean that’s the room we were talking way before all this happened, that we needed to get this fixed and it_never did until after. WR. MM: Lieutenant mentioned that downstairs in your office, the Coms Tech office was in the basement? Yes. . Was there, like, a tower in your office with, like, the recorders and things like that in the office? EFTA00126357

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRRR we wre RR SD ae ee od WS Wr rs © Ww oc 89 MR. MR. That gave you access to -? MR. No. I just had the live feed from the old (Indiscernible *00:58:31), so I could look at the live video, and at my workstation I could look at -. I had a screen in my shop where I could look at the live feed. Pf Yeah, . : And then, I had my desktop computer where I could log into Nice and look at what's being recorded, or what’s working on the recorders. MR. terminal itself. and stuff -. MR. QM: «It probably looked like -. It was probably my -. That's where the public address was. And later on, after the install, I put in a separate, like I put a network in my shop, but that was later on. The only thing that was in there was the public address, my live feed, and my workstation. MR. a. This is prior to the August 10th, 2019? MR. No. But she mentioned like a Like, all the recorders, DVRs Yes. 91 WR. MRM: Okay, so you didn’t have a key to either one of those rooms? MR. : No. MR. : Okay. Well, I’m glad I asked because that was a little confusing. So, SIS controlled the keys to both of those rooms? MR. a Yes, because that was the Evidence Room. And like I stated before, I was told numerous times that we should have our own key or get_your stuff out of the Recorder Room. MR. Okay. MR. : And that’s how it is at most institutions. Just the Recorder Room. Nobody else but the Com Techs have that key or should. MDC Brooklyn, I have the same problem now because that room is - I don’t mean to be talking off - but they use that room for other stuff, so now you have people that do have the key. These two institutions are rare because when I worked in Terre Haute, only the Com Techs had the key to go in the Recorder Room. Nobody else should have the key. These two institutions for space or whatever, they use an excuse and other people have the key to go in the room and nobody RR ROW OHMS fwrNP —— wr RPRRR oN Du ee od Wwrerow mr oe RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr MRRP RRR Pow OAS Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 90 WR. QM: Okay. But there’s no actual, like a DVR system, recorders, or anything like that? MR. the basement, no. MR. D No, there was nothing in Okay. Anything else ASAC UR. MMMM: Yeah. I just want to double back to the key situation and the rooms there. . : Yes. . : And so, you had a key to that and that’s -. MR. No. I never had a key to that until after all of this happened. After - MR. MM: Okay, so the actual - so there are two rooms. : Yes. : The way I understand it is there was the phone monitor room, and then within that room there’s another locked room that had the DVRs, correct? MR. a. Yes, yes. should have the key but the Com Techs. WR. MB: Okay. So, prior to August 10th, 2019 ou did not have a key to that -- . a. No. We talked about it . | Recorder Room? . : == about me getting access to having a key so I could get in that room. But you never did. Okay, so -. I never got it, no. . You didn’t have one. I’m assuming the facilities manager didn’t have one either then, back then. MR. : No. : Okay. And so, you said SIS MR. controlled those keys. Obviously, the lieutenant had it. Do you know if the SIS Tech had the key? MR. a: The SIS Tech had the key and the lieutenant, yes. MR. Okay. MR. And whoever was in the Phone Monitoring Room or the Video Room. They would have the key to get in also. EFTA00126358

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rR CWO D SWwrNP RPRRRR We WN Re RRR CoN DD a de ood SWwWNr Ow PRR RPE RR Re rm CON Dw SW N rR OW ON DW Sw Nr “ ae od rr 93 MR. MM: So, the phone monitor who is just a CO that's rotating -- MR. Yes. MR. : -- or a staff member rotating through there on a quarterly basis, they would be given that DVR Room key, as well? MR. They would have the key to get in the room and the door is supposed to be locked, but usually, I get - if they're already - I could just _go in the room in the back. WR. a. The room in the back. Is that locked or is it just kept open? MR. It probably should have been locked. Sometimes I went in there, it was locked, sometimes it was open. WR. MM: Okay, so, but for the phone monitor, they had a room, obviously to the Phone Monitor Room -- Yes. : == but not the actual DVR Room wR. QR: | I'm not sure if they had that key. WR. QM: -- but you’re just saying that sometimes -? 95 Tech, I started in Indiana - and the version of NiceVision I had was, like, two generations before the current version when I went to MCC. So, when I came to MCC, I thought MCC was going to have the updated version, but they have the old stuff, and then I had to figure out how that stuff worked. MR. Okay. MR. So, I was learning backwards, pretty much. MR. i. All right. Thanks. I know you had provided us with an email showing, I forget the date. It was a certain point in time you had not had the training. I was just wondering if that had changed at any time prior to the incident? MR. had no training -- Okay. : -- from NiceVision. : All right. Well, hang in there. Ma be_one of these days. MR. —. I think I’m kind of an expert now because -. WR. WBBM: It sounds like it. Al] right, Up to this day, I’ve still =— ROW OHMS fwrNP —— wr RPRRR oN Du ee od Wr Ow mre oe RR ae ee RR i) MRRP RRR RRR POoOwCmBADH ew Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 94 WR. QJ: I don’t know if they have that key or not, but usually that room is open. MR. : Okay. MR. Because only the SIS would have that key. MR. a. Okay. All right. Good Thanks a lot for clearing that up. And that’s all I had on the keys. I had one more question, I, if you were finished, before we move on to the phone call. Yes. : Yeah. : The DVR and DR training, we saw some emails -- MR. Yeah. MR. :__-- which I think you -. MR. I never got training. Everything was inhouse. MR. > Okay. training? WR. GJ: I've never taken a training. Everything I’ve learned is on-the- job. You did not take that MR. J: Okay. And the version, like - so, the main thing is, when I started as a Com 96 and that’s all I had. Thanks. MR. And onto the last topic. MR. Mm-hmm . MR. I’m going to show you a document. Do you recognize this? : : Yes. . : Can you explain to us what This is the phone record made me pull. Who made you pull? MR. The warden or SIS. MR. Okay. Can you read that? Like, can you explain to us the date of the call? they probabl MR. Okay, so the date is 8/9. That’s August 9th. August 9th, 2019. And the time of the call? Which is 1858:03. That would be 6:58 p.m. 58, yeah, and three And then -. seconds. MR. The location. Would you be able to say where the location is? EFTA00126359

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rR CSCwWOmOANDMDS fWwNHP 97 6134. That’s the caller “. a: station. MR. where that is? MR. housing unit, SHU. Do you know, offhand, I believe that was a Okay. Yes. . And why did they ask you to pull that? MR. : Because they believed Mr. Epstein was given a phone call before all this happened. WR. WJ: And either the warden or the SIS asked you to pull that? MR. a. To see if actually he got a phone call. To make sure that they put him in there to see if he really got a phone call. MR. And what was the number that was dialed out? MR. The number that was dialed : And how long did that call last? WR. ME: 0h, so the start time was 99 , do you have any other questions? I do not. Thanks. Well, that’s it from us. Yeah. I thought it was going to be more. MR. : No. MR. : Hey, it’s because it is a I know it’s a lot. WR. QJ: It's a little confusing. I should clarify the timing. MR. Yes. MR. We care only about August 10th and M M lot. Prior. Yeah. And thank God we were able ~ Okay. Same thing as before. R R R R R R to clarify that. MR. MR. the documents we showed you, we just need you to initial -- MR, : MR. : MR. : MR. : front of you. All Oh, okay. -- and date it. Okay. Yeah, let me put this in =— ROW OHMS fwrNP PRR RRR RR OCOD Sw R mm nd MmeMmnNr Ww = Wh Re CWO HM fWwrNP 98 1858:03. They answered 19 seconds later, and then the call ended at 1919:10. MR. And what system did you use to pull this up? MR. That’s the PBX Phone Switch, and that’s pretty much anything going into the institution or coming out. That’s the phone record. MR. when you And based on your review went in, this is the call? MR. P| That was the call, yes. MR. : And you pulled this up, you handed it over to the SIS or to (Indiscernible *00:01:05:07)? MR. Whoever wanted me to -. Like I said, there was a lot going on. I was trying to do a lot. MR. And this was Epstein’s - based on your recollection - this is Epstein’s Phone call. MR. : -- phone call, and that was provided to the OIC? . Yes. Okay. Any questions? Okay. . Just initial and date anywhere on the document. Today is the -? 4/7. . I’m bad with dates. I should be better. (Indiscernible *00:01:06:08). MR. Same thing. . : Okay. MR. : That's part of the same document. Mr. , thank you for taking the time to talk with us today. Yes. . And we can’t say we're not going to come back here with more questions. : Uh-oh. We might have more No, you're questions. MR. questions. MR. we do. . a: You might have more We'll reach out to you if Okay. EFTA00126360

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1 2 3 - 5 101 MR. QM: | And we'll set up another interview. And thank you again. MR. MR. Uh-huh. This is Special Agent . The time is 11:28 a.m., I'm 6 concluding this interview. I’m stopping the 7 8 9 10 ll 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 recorder. 102 CERTIFICATE I hereby certify that the foregoing pages represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Interview of Kim Simon, Transcriber EFTA00126361