i No No i) No No wi oO) co Oo i=) wi Oo oo \o wi Oo DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL SEPTEMBER 23, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES EFTA00125657

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 APPEARANC ive) OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL wi w K 8 WITN te) No e c wo is) b ho EFTA00125658

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. QJ: his is Special Agent J ios) 2 a. Today is September 23, 2021. The time 3 is 9:20 a.m., and we are beginning the 4 interview. My name is ae . I'ma 5 Special Agent with the U.S. Department of 6 Justice, Office of the Inspector General, New 7 York Field Office, and these are my 8 credentials. MS. a : I see. 10 MR. ae: This interview with the 11 Federal Bureau of sons correctional officer 2 lieutenant, ee. Did I say that 3 right? K es. 15 MR. a: Is being conducted as part of 16 an official U.S. Department of Justice, Office 7 of the Inspector General, DOJ investigation. 8 Today’s date is September 23rd, 2021. The time 9 is 9:20 a.m. This interview is being conduced 20 at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New 21 York City. Also present is DOJ Senior Special 22 Agent. 24 these are my credentials. Thank you. 25 MR. a: This interview will be EFTA00125659

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LIMITED ies) w fos) wo ive) oo © No N No Ww OFFICIAL USE 4 recorded by me, Special Agent a. record, and spell start, again, I am DOJ/OIG This investigation into the death of inmate Jeffrey Epstein, and you are being asked to voluntarily provide answers to our Will to a voluntary Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector Basis. EFTA00125660

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 conducted by the Office of the Inspector General. This investigation is being conducted pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended. This investigation pertains to job performance failure, and security failure. This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not have to answer questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you choose not to answer questions. Any statement you furnish may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceedings, or agency disciplinary proceedings, or both.” The waiver states, "I understand the Warnings and Assurances stated above and I am willing to make a statement and answer questions. No promises or threats have been made to me, and no pressure or coercion of any kind has been used against me.” Please read the form, and if you understand -- MS. a : Okay. MR. a: -- can you please sign where it says employee name, signature? MR. a: Need a pen? MS. a : Thank you. MR. a: Move that out of the way. EFTA00125661

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o th And you are signing the form Mm-hmm. Thank you. That’ 7] , rt o Oo 9 K I’ll fill out the -- Okay. lé MR -- that part. 15 No problem. 17 MR. a : Thank you. t ie) i) H io] wu 3 Fh iw } = B ct & + 22 signing on the signature of the Office of 23 In stor General. 24 MR. a : you. And I am 25 going to as the and put my name. EFTA00125662

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LIMITED oO wo ot) oO oo 22 OFFICIAL USE 7 Thanks. MR. ae: Before starting the interview, I would like to place oath. Lieutenant a. can you please raise your right hand? Do you it the truth know if you do not understand any and I will re it or try to rephrase it is your current home addre EFTA00125663

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LIMITED ies) w fos) wo ive) oo OFFICIAL USE co current cell phone number? What is your highest level of And what is your MR. education? The College of New Rochelle. And what wa And what I was in you do prior to working MS. a : I worked for the New York City Police Department as a school safety agent. Q MR. And when did you start working Zz for the a: 7 EFTA00125664

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 9 ive) w wo ive) fea] oo MR. a: And when did you -? What was the -? When did you first start? MS. P| : MDC Brooklyn. MDC Brooklyn? from BOP training? MR. ae : You don’t remember the yu graduate MR. a : It was probably shortly you started, correct? 1] Ph ct oO KR et EFTA00125665

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 oO And have you been ie) is) oO 17 MR. a : And then, in 2019, were you a lieutenant with the SIS Offic oo Ne) an Fs c x wu te y i + f ct a © ion wu io my QO ND 5B Ke i) ni] re) | | EFTA00125666

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 11 w ~] oO 10 11 questions. MR. a: So, what we’re going to talk to you today about is Mr. -. Are you aware of who Jeffrey Epstein is? MS. QJ: ves. MR. a: And was he an inmate at the MCC? MS. a: Yes. MR. a: Were you familiar with him while he was housed here at the MCC? MS. a: Yeah. I would say yes. MR. a: Okay. Let’s start of Well, were you familiar with his first suicide Hh investigation on that one. Yes. MR. a: Did that approximately, did that happen approximately around July 23rd, 2019? MS. BJ: = ves. MR. a: Can you tell us what happened? Based on your investigation and what you found. MS. a: Based on my investigation, once I found out about the suicide attempt when EFTA00125667

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 12 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I came to work, I spoke to the staff team, as well as his cellmate, to try to get both of their sides of the story. MR. a: Was that Tartaglione? MS. a : Yes. Mr. Tartaglione. MR. a : Okay. MS. a : I spoke to Epstein in the R&D area. He was a little hesitant, at first, about speaking to me. He kept asking me who was I? You know, what was I interviewing him for? And I explained to him my position as the SIS Lieutenant, to ensure his safety needs are met, and, you know, I questioned him about the alleged suicide attempt, and he said, I don’t remember what happened. I remember him telling me he went to get a drink of water, and all he remembered is he was on the floor. And the staff will come in and he wouldn’t provide much of anything else. I did question him about Mr. Tartaglione. You know, did you guys have any words with each other? You know, we were just cellmates at the time. You know, when you went to get the drink of water, and he would -. Either he say he was laying on the floor, or sitting on the bed. EFTA00125668

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 13 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) You know? I asked him, you know, are you telling me the truth? Is there anything that you would like to volunteer? You know, did you intentionally try to harm yourself? And at elf. I fo times, like, I didn't try to harm my don't know what happened. I just got a drink of water, and next thing you know, I was on the floor. MR. a : Did you ask him if Tartaglione attempted to harm him? MS. QJ: ves. MR. a : And what did he say to MS. a: And he said no. MR. a : And he said Tartaglione did not -- MS. a: Yes. MR. a : -- try to harm him? MS. a: He said he did not. MR. QJ: Okay. MR. a: Was there a noose found around his neck, at that point? Do you know? MS. a: I think it was. I think it was. At the time. It was a rope, I want to say, or something to that effect. They had EFTA00125669

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 14 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 brought down to the SIS Shop, that they found. I can't tell you that they found it around his neck because I can't remember. To be honest with you. MR. a : And how did the C.0O.s become aware that he had possibly tried to commit suicide? MS. a: To my knowledge, Mr. Tartaglione is who alerted the officers, by banging on the door. MR. a : And when the officers found him, did they find a noose around his neck? How did they find him, do you recall? MS. QJ: 31 can't recall. I know that they found him on the floor. But I can't recall if it was around his neck. MR. a : And Mr. Epstein stated that Tartaglione did not try to kill him. MS. QJ: 9 Yes. MR. QJ: 9 Except there was a noose. MS. a: Yes. MR. a: Did he mention if he made the noose himself, or how the noose came about? MS. QJ: =No. He didn’t. MR. a: And what was your impression EFTA00125670

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 15 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 after talking to him? Did you believe that he tried to take his own life? MS. a: I kind of had mixed feelings about it because he was insistent on that he didn’t try to take his own life. You know? Normally, a person will say, okay, this was going on, and he kept saying, no, I didn't try to kill myself. I didn't try to kill myself. I don't know what happened. So, I mean, during the investigation and conclusion, I can't say that he, you know, he did or he didn't, to be honest with you. From the answers that I was getting back from him. MR. QJ: «But he stated himself that Tartaglione didn't try to kill him? MS. a: Yes. MR. a : So, the only other option would have possibly been that he tried to commit suicide himself? MS. QJ: $9 Right. MR. a: Okay. MR. Es : Or do you believe that inmate Tartaglione attempted to harm him? MS. a : I don’t. MR. a : Yeah. EFTA00125671

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 16 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. a : I don’t. MR. Ee : So, was it inconclusive? MS. a: It was pretty inconclusive. MR. a: What is your feeling of what happened, though? Being a trained investigator. MS. a : I don’t know if it was, you know, looking back, I kind of felt, like, okay, was this, like, did he intentionally try to do something to get our attention? You know, then I leaned to, maybe he didn't. You know? You have two inmates in the cell. And I'm, you know, I'm also looking at did, you know, did Tartaglione tell me the truth. You know, I really can't say what happened because you have, you know, Mr. Epstein saying, you know, no, he didn't try to do anything to me, and I asked about them interacting. Do they talk? And he’s, like, yes, we talk. You know, we’re cellmates. We talk. We read books. He, you know? So, it wasn’t no reason for me to believe that Mr. Tartaglione, you know, tried to harm him because Epstein didn't give me that impression. MR. a : And was he placed on EFTA00125672

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 17 1 suicide watch as a result? 2 MS. ae: Yes. a : So then, wouldn’t you 4 only be placed on suicide watch if the thought ies) a) w ry Hn ct Za fw ct a 0) = w nm attempting to self-harm? oO a: If that was the thought made ts] ih U a : -- they would definitely 10 place you on suicide watch. Even if you said 11 it out of playing, they would place you o 2 suicide watch. 3 MR. a : So, do you know how they 4 made that determination that he would be placed 5 on suicide watch? 16 MS ae: I don't know. a : I don't know. 9 MR. a : But it wasn’t based upon 20 your investigation? 21 MS. J: No. 22 MR. J: = we 23 investigations conclusions, which actually oo U is] it actually your 24 brought him off of suicide watch? 25 MS. EJ: No. EFTA00125673

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 18 ~] wo i=) 11 MR. SJ: «0? MS. ae: No. I wouldn’t say that. Normally, they do their evaluation, the psychology department, and when I guess they determined that the inmates could return to the general population, then they will release them from the suicide watch. MR. QM: Okay. So, the sIs determination of inconclusive doesn't actually play into if he’s on or off of suicide watch. MS. QJ: 9 don’t think it did. MR. QR: okay. MS. QJ: «= don’t think it did. MR. a: Inmate Tartaglione. Had he been at the MCC for a long time? MS. ae: Yeah. He’s been at the MCC for quite some time. MR. a : Did he have any history of violence with any of the inmates? MS. RR: Not violence. He was more of wu cellphone carrier. I think I caught him with wu cellphone at a time. MR. GJ: Is -- MS. a : You know -- MR. a: -- is that why -- EFTA00125674

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 19 w ~] MS. a: -- something to that effect. MR. a: -- he was in the SHU? MS. a: I think that’s why he was in SHU at that time. MR. a: Do you recall how Tartaglione got chosen to be Epstein’s inmate? MR. QJ: Celimate. MR. a: Cellmate. Sorry. MS. a: Actually, I don't. I don’t know how they put the two of them together. Normally, if it’s, you know, if we’re vetting cellmates for, say, that they would ask me, you know, who do you think would be more suitable, but in Epstein’s case, nobody asked me. So, I don’t know how they became cellmates. MR. a: You don’t know if any decisions were made by the higher ups, in regards to him? MS. a: I don't know. MR. a: Okay. And after this incident happened, was Tartaglione removed from the cell? Or was inmate Epstein removed from the cell? EFTA00125675

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 20 ~] wo i=) 11 MS. a: I'm not sure which one were removed, or if they both was placed in different cells, with different cellmates. I'm not sure. MR. QJ: 9 well -. MR. a : Well, inmate Epstein was actually placed on suicide watch. MS. a: Right. But I'm not sure if Mr. Fs remained in that same cell. MR. ae: Okay. But he was in the SHU after that meeting with him? MS. ae : Yes. MR. a: Were there any issues with him after that incident? MR. ae: With Tartaglione. MS. a: Not that I'm aware of. MR. a : Okay. And we asked about the suicide watch. Now, being that if an inmate was - an incident like this happened, let’s skip the fact that it was inmate Epstein -- MS. QJ: 9 okay. MR. ae: -- if an inmate was found with a noose, and there was a possibility of a suicide, what’s the normal procedure that EFTA00125676

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 21 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 happens? What happens to the inmate? What does the MCC do with the inmate? MS. a: If it was an incident where he was found, let’s say, while I was a lieutenant on, and it happened, I would remove him from the cell, of course, immediately. Notify psychology of what occurred. At that point, I would be placing him on suicide watch, with an inmate companion watching him, but I would make sure, you know, we take all of his clothing, everything, and he would get nothing but a suicide smog. And a suicide blanket. MR. a : And how long does that normal suicide watch last? MS. a: It can vary. MR. a : What’s the shortest you’ve ever seen somebody put om suicide watch? MS. a : Maybe a couple of days, but I can't tell you a, you know, one or two days, or three. But maybe a couple of days. MR. a: Based on what we’ve found out, it looks like this attempt was on the 23rd, and 24th morning, he was removed from suicide watch and placed in psych observation. MS. QJ: «Right. EFTA00125677

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 22 ~] oO 10 11 MR. a: Do you think that was too early to remove him from suicide watch? I know this is -. What is the difference between psych op and suicide watch? MS. a: It’s the same area. Psych ops is, they just get their clothing back. But they are still being watched. MR. a : It’s the same thing, right? MS. a: It’s the same thing. MR. QJ: 39 yeah. MS. a: They’re still being watched by an inmate companion. MR. a: Is there any other benefit to being in suicide watch - in terms of suicide watch versus psych observation - any benefits to being in psych ops? MR. a : Yeah. You have your clothes. MS. QJ: 9 You get your clothes. MR. a: Your clothes. MS. a: I mean -. MR. a: Was it - if it was any other inmate - would they have given back his clothes that fast? EFTA00125678

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 23 ~] wo 10 11 MS. a: I don't know. That would be the psychology department determination. MR. a: Okay. Did you - now, moving forward, I think around July 30th, I believe, that he was removed from psych observation, and he was placed back in the SHU - do you recall hearing why he was removed from psych observation -- MR. a: -- and placed back in the SHU? Ms. QR: No. MR. a: Do you have any questions? MR. a : Yeah. Just to go back, file back to Nicholas Tartaglione. So, I knew you - when asked - you said you weren’t, you knew he was more of a cellmate carrier kind of a guy, but do you know of any instances where he actually did harm another inmate? MS. BJ: No. MR. QR: 910? MS. J: No. MR. a : Great. Thank you. MR. a: All right. Anything else on the -? EFTA00125679

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 24 1 MR. QJ: 39 Nope. Ww rs] Ke O c QO wu Q Oo fu @ cet o wi 0 iad oO he 5 jou working on August 9th, 2019? fos) wo ive) 15 MR. ae : I'm going to 16 copy oo roster. MCC SHU roster. you can take a look at it 21 and let me know if on schedule. 22 MS. QJ: =9No. I'm not on it. EFTA00125680

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 25 ~] oO 10 11 MR. Ee : Oh, sorry. MR. a: -- where would that be listed? Sorry. MR. a : I thought you were going to -. I thought we were just talking about this. This next one. Did you hear anything - just going back, before we talk about the suicide watch, psychological observation room, we'll go - did you hear anything about anyone contacting the MCC and requesting that he be removed from psychological observation? Ms. BR: No. MR. a : No? And you didn't hear that, like, for instance, his attorneys were trying to get him off of psychological observation, so that they could continue with their attorney/client visits? MS. a: No. I didn't hear. MR. a : You never heard that? MS. BJ: No. MR. a : Okay. Perfect. Now, we can move to the actual -. MR. a: So, I showed you the August Ms. MJ: can I -. Actually -- EFTA00125681

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LIMITED ies) w fos) wo ive) oo OFFICIAL USE 26 MR. MS. -- I would be under the SIS Lieutenant, if you -. Under the SHU Lieutenant. I would be under the D Lieute No. I was the only SIS Lieutenant. I'm trying to think. Yeah. wn ec i 0) So, you were not here on the 9th, is what you are saying? n o a oO MR. Ee : And no one was? Not in the MR. a : Oh, wow. Is that abnormal, for being a Friday, without anyone a EFTA00125682

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LIMITED ies) w fos) wo ive) oo OFFICIAL USE being in § MS. ae: Actually, the SIS Technician, her days off is Friday and Saturday. MR. : Oh, wow. MS. a : One tech and one We didn't have on time. MR. a : Oh, so it was then, abnormal that, working? I normally - sernibl -- on a Friday, I been on because she would lieutenant. been e at the literally this wasn’t, o one was oO would have EFTA00125683

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ive) oO wo MR. ni OD w ) is rt | = om int 5 mv a iv) bh n th K @ ni] th (Indiscernible *00:19:36). -- on Friday. I can't recall Sure. who was the ty 5 AQ All right. But she wasn’t her i) sn’t here. No. She we And do ly - I know hat it was the day before. EFTA00125684

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2 1 MS. a: The day of the actual wo 2 suicide. 3 MR. a : When you say actual suicide, 4 which would be -- 5 MS. QJ: 9 August 10th. 6 MR. QJ: 9 -- August 10th 7 MS. a: Yes. 8 MR. a: Saturday, when you came in, 9 that’s when you learned -? 10 MS. When I came in. Mm-hmm. 11 MR. Okay. Were you aware that, 2 when you came in, what were you aware of why ive) Reyes was removed from the institution? After speaking to him, they 15 told me he got released from court. That’s 16 what I was told. 7 MR. Who told you that he was -? 8 MS. Not sure. 9 MR. Not sure. Okay. 20 MS. I can't remember. 21 MR. So, your understanding was, 22 Reyes went to court and he just didn't come 23 back? 24 MS. a : Right. That’s what I 25 understand. EFTA00125685

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 30 1 MR. a: What’s a normal procedure, 2 how do the MCC find out if an inmate is being 3 moved to court, or being transferred out? 4 MS. From court, you’re saying? 5 MR From court. Let’s say -- oO ie) £ KK rt You’re talking about cou -- Reyes was -. 8 MR. a : Well, no, in this case, ctually never is] wo a. fe a O r= ® 0 in oa i wu in 10 went to court, transferred to 11 another institution? No. I heard he went to Nm ive) a) So, even to this date -- U 5 MS. a: And was released from court. a : -- to this date, did you t oO a 7 ever hear that, that he never went to court? 8 He actually was transferred? 9 MS. a : No. I’ve never heard that. 20 MR. ae : Oh, you've never even 24 that’s what happened. He never went to court. rry. Because 25 He was transferred. EFTA00125686

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LIMITED ies) w fos) wo ive) oo OFFICIAL USE 31 MS. a: I still don’t know. MR. a : That’s what 21:24). MS. ae: That’s news to me, right. I (Indiscernible *0 re MS. a: -- assumed that he went to court, and, KNOW, may. made bail or something -- a: -- and he got released from MR. a : But that’s what ying, that he actually went to court? ed on what we - our MR. GR: so, investigation, I’1l show you an email. This dated -. This is from a. from the U.S. Marshals il i o 3 i m7 mn MR. a: And it went to, it looks like MS. ma : Mm-hmm. MR. QJ: 9 And it EFTA00125687

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 32 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 inmates on August 8th, 2019, at 10:33 a.m. This email was sent to them. If you take a look at the title, the subject, it says, “Transfer of inmates.” MS. a : Yeah. MR. a: And it says, “Transfer of prisoners from -- MS. a: I see it. MR. QJ: 9 -- to GEo. MS. QJ: To Geo. MR. a : And inmate Efrain Reyes is stated on this. So, he never -. It’s not that he went to court. He actually was transferred to GEO. Do you know what the procedure is for something like that? If an inmate is to be transferred, how do they pull the inmate out? How do they let the SHU know that the inmate needs to be pulled out? MS. a: Normally, R&D would get in touch with the SHU officers, pretty early in the morning, 6:00 in the morning, to get their courts, and whoever is leaving, ready. MR. a: Is that known as a court list? MS. a: A court list. EFTA00125688

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 33 1 MR. a: And that list comes over, and 2 they let the SHU officers know? 3 MS. a : Yes. 4 MR | So, they prepare them. And 5 on that - if that he was leaving - what would 6 -? Have you ever heard the 7 8 Yes. 9 What does -- 10 -- WAB mean to you? 2 With All Belonging 3 And what is your 4 understanding if it states that? 5 Ms. QJ: 9vo me, With All Belongings 16 Can mean anything. You know, where is he going? To Brooklyn? Is he going home? oo ] MR. But does it mean that he’s 9 coming back? 20 MS. To me, no. And your understanding is, if 22 it says WAB, he’s leaving for certain? Right. 7 24 MR. a : Okay. | Right. EFTA00125689

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LIMITED ~] wo 10 11 OFFICIAL USE MR. Ee : And when, as an SIS, would you get a copy of those court production MR. a : -- or productions? No? MR. a : Okay. MR. a: Do you know, I mean, it’s on the top, do you ever -. Do you recall, after this investigation started, after Epstein’s death, ever seeing that court list for that MS. a: No. I’ve never seen it. MR. a: If we wanted to obtain a copy of it, do you know if there’s any way we can obtain a copy of that? MS. a: I would think it should be in the Receiving and Discharge area. MR. a: And that’s something that they -- Ms. QJ: 9=vhe rep. MR. a: -- if we asked, and based on it, it said no one seems to have maintained a copy of that. It looks like they’ve printed off for the day, and then they disposed of it. Wo rf EFTA00125690

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LIMITED OFFICIAL US 1 MS. a: I don't know. 2 MR. ae: Okay. 3 MR. SR: «wa Ww w 3) it kept, though, 4 under your investigation, for when you went in 5 on the 10th? Do you know if that was, at all, 6 part of, like, anything that you would have 7 collected? Did I? I don’t think I had fe) th 9 the court list. 10 MR. J: «0? 11 MS. a: To be honest with you. I had 2 a lot of stuff. But I don’t recall seeing the 3 court list. 4 MR. a : So, in the stuff -- 15 Ms. QJ: 9 on. 16 MR. a : -- that you did, on the 7 10th, did you involve at all, did you look into 8 it at all, | leaving and Epstein not having 9 a cellmate? 20 MS. QJ: 31 think I did. I think I did 21 run his SENTRY paperwork, once I got here, to 22 see where was Reyes. What happened with Reyes. 23 I think I did run his SENTRY paperwork. 24 MR. a : Okay. But you didn't -. 25 You didn't ever maintain, you know, obtain that EFTA00125691

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE Wo fen) 1 court list, though? 2 MS. ae: I didn't have the court list. 3 MR Po : Okay. 4 MS. ae: I don’t recall having a court 5 list. No 6 MR. a : And so, do you - if R&D 7 doesn't maintain it - do you know if there is 8 any way that we could get our hands on one of 9 these court lists? 10 MS. ae: I don't know. I don't know, 11 in SENTRY, because I don’t deal with their 2 functions. So, I don't even know if they were 3 able to - be able to go back. 4 MR. a : Yeah, no, they can't. 15 They replace it every day. t oO 77) Right. 7 MR. a : Every (Indiscernible 8 *00:25:14), so no one -- MS. a : See, I don’t -- 20 MR. QJ: -- it’s only maintained 21 in SENTRY for 24 hours. Do you h the other 22 email? 23 MR. ae: Which one? 24 MR. a : The one that they sent ying that he wa EFTA00125692

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 37 10 11 12 13 14 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 being transferred. MR. a: Oh, no. I don’t have that email. I think that’s separate. I didn't print that one out. MR. a : Okay. And do you know, are you familiar with how the U.S. Marshals Service - at least back then, I don't know if they still do this - but they would send out an email the day before, which would be sent to, like, all the lieutenants, and a number of other people, for people who, the following day, are going to court or being transferred. Are you familiar with that email that’s sent by the Marshals Service? MS. a: I’ve probably seen it. MR. a : Okay. But you don’t really know what I'm talking about? Ms. QJ: «oon, it -- MR. QJ: Okay. MS. QJ: 9 -- I would have to see it. To be honest with you. MR. Ee : Okay. MR. a: I'm going to take a step back. When Epstein was brought out of psych observation, he was placed in the SHU. Do you EFTA00125693

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 38 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 recall that anyone from upper management, or even psych, mentioning that he was required to have a cellmate? MS. a: I didn't hear it, per se. But normally, when they come off of suicide watch, or a psych observation, they have to have a cellmate. And psychology, usually harbor on that. You know? They have to -- MR. Why is it -- MS. -- have a cellmate. MR. -- why is it that they need a cellmate? MS. I don't want to guess, but I would say, even though, you know, an attempt possibly was made, you want to prevent something happening going forward. MR. a : And do you recall - but you said you’re not sure - but do you recall that there was a requirement for Epstein to have a cellmate? MS. a: Yes. I do recall them saying he had to have a cellmate. MR. a: And that was by word of mouth? MS. a: By word of mouth. EFTA00125694

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LIMITED OFFICIAL US 39 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 MR. a: Do you recall who you heard it from? MS. a: Let’s see. I want to say Dr. i. who is the psychologist. I want to say Dr. | said that he has to have a cellmate. MR. a: So, she probably came down. Do you recall if she told other people in the SHU, in regards to that? MS. a: I don’t know because I wouldn't have been in the SHU. MR. QJ: 911 right. MS. a: Sorry. MR. a : The reason I ask is, now that we know that Reyes is leaving the SHU, right? And he’s WAB, that, and the court list comes down, and our understanding is, on that court list, it states WAB -- MS. a: Mm-hmm. MR. a: -- and he’s brought down to R&D. And he’s removed from the facility. Whose responsibility would it have been, at that point, to make sure that Epstein had a cellmate? MS. a : I would say the supervisor. That was the SHU Lieutenant, whoever was on, EFTA00125695

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LIMITED ies) w fos) wo ive) oo OFFICIAL USE 40 because he would know that he’s leaving out of MR. : And this is the August 9th a 5 nl] Q wu t 3 ke rh ce ct w nv 1 i} 7) c ie) r Lieutenant BO oO _— = wu Re oO ld then become the th The next person -- a) -- moving up? MS. -- would be the Lieutenant, should have been notifie MR. a : And who should ha Normally, the SHU staff would left, and, you know, a bunkie. And at what point -- -- should the -- EFTA00125696

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 41 1 MR. Ee : At what point should the 2 SHU staff have notified the Operations ies) Lieutenant? 4 MS. ae: Immediately. MR. QJ: So, as soon as that 6 person is being -? w soon as Mr. S came out oe ct J w rt oO o be hb 9 MR. a : ay. And is it one 10 person over another, within the SHU, that 1 should have told him? Or is it any one of 2 them? ive) 4 MR. a : Or all of them? 5 MS. referred t oO a SHU, during fee) ct I ou rt ct bh 3 i) the SHU shows SHU- No ox) 5 H ~ S 2) = ct .) im a 6 Oo n rt oO 6 24 1, But -- 25 Yes EFTA00125697

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LIMITED OFFICIAL US 42 1 MR. a: -- was there any specific 2 person, during that time period, who was 3 considered - it might not be listed as the SHU- 4 1 - but was considered to be the officer in 5 charge? 6 MS. a: Yes. It would been the SHU 7 number one, which would be Officer a. 8 MR. a: a. But what about, we 9 heard other people refer to as | as, 10 though, the officer in charge. Because he’s 11 been in there the longest, at that point. 2 MS. EJ: 9 ves. 3 MR. a: Have you ever heard that? 4 MS. BJ: 9 Yes. 15 MR. QJ: §9e would be the OIC? 16 MS. ae: He was the OIC, probably for 7 the quarter, I would say, he was. 8 MR. a : And why wouldn’t he be 9 listed as SHU-1, if he was the OIC for the 20 quarter? Do you know? No ri th He could have been on his day 22 off. I don't know. 23 MR. a : No, no. He was there. 24 And we heard that -- 25 MS. a: Oh, he was? EFTA00125698

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 43 1 MR. Ee : -- he actually was the 2 OIc. But he’s not listed as one. ies) Hi Oh, I don't know. I didn't 4 even see him as the number three. I don’t -. 5 I don't know. oO a But he should have been listed as one, because he was the quarter -- 8 MS. a: If that was his -- wo Fs | 11 the quarter, he should have been listed as the 2 SHU number one. MR. a : Okay. 4 MS. a: Unless they did a switch, or 5 a mutual thing, or something to that effect. MR. ae: And a. at that point, 7 in 2019, had enough experience in the SHU, as ive) fea] Les] rt a 0] SHU OIC, from your recollection? 9 MS. a : Yeah. 20 MR. J: §9=So, the morning of, what 21 happened based on our investigation, is Epstein 22 and his cellmate, were removed at the 23 same time. So, Officer | came in. 25 MR. a: With the court order. He EFTA00125699

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 44 w ~] ive) knew -- MR. a : Court list. MR. a: -- court list, and he knew that Reyes was leaving. So, they packed up his stuff in a little brown paper bag, and | retrieved Epstein from his cell, also, and they both were transported on the elevator down together. Epstein to attorney conference, and Reyes out. MS. EJ: 9 okay. MR. a: And we know, in the elevator, too, there was a conversation about Epstein needing a cellmate. MS. QJ: 9 Okay. MR. a: Now, being that | escorted him down, and down, he was in the elevator, and | was in the elevator, knowing that Reyes is leaving, out of them two, should either of them have made a notification immediately? MR. a: Do you think they would have known that it was important that they made the notification? Ms. QJ: yes. EFTA00125700

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 45 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a : Why do you think that? MS. a: If you had a conversation about him needing a cellmate, that means - to me - you know that it was important for him to have one. And you knew that his - obviously - Mr. Reyes was leaving WAB. And Epstein needed a cellmate. So, or I feel, like, right then and there, the notification should have been made. Even though he’s in attorney conference, but his cellmate is leaving, lieutenant, we need a cellmate for him. MR. a: Is there any reason for them to believe that, even though it showed WAB, that Reyes - that for them to believe that Reyes would be coming back? MS. a : I would say no. If it says WAB, that’s what it is. I would assume that he’s not coming back. MR. QJ: §9=Now, if, let’s say they’ve mentioned sometimes they bring inmates down to R&D, and the bus doesn't come. Or they’re not going to court, and sometimes they come back up. How long does that process normally take? MS. a : It happens. Hmm. I’ve seen it be a couple of hours, before the inmates EFTA00125701

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 46 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 will come back up. MR. a: So, this is, they were brought down any time between 8:00 a.m. and 8:30 a.m. MS. a : Mm-hmm. MR. a: So, when you say a couple hours, we’re talking about anywhere between 10:00 and 10:30 a.m.? MS. a: Yeah. I’ve seen inmates come up later. You know, an hour and a half, you know, he didn't -. He’s not leaving on a bus. Once they get everybody on the bus, they will go back up to Special Housing. MR. QJ: Now, if the inmate was not brought back up to the SHU, let’s say by even 11:00 a.m., right? Because if they’re expecting that there is a possibility that the inmate might come back up, and it doesn't happen by 11:00 a.m., should they have made a notification? MS. a: They normally would. And because they - I'm going to reach and say - they assumed he was leaving, because he didn't come back -- MR. a: I should clarify that -- EFTA00125702

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 47 w ~] ive) MS. a: -- come by then. MR. a: -- I mean, I meant notification, should | or anybody in the SHU, at that point, at 11:00, notified the superior, hey, listen - supervisors - hey, listen, Reyes is gone, and Epstein is -- MR. a : And not 11:00. Just during their shift. At some point, if they left their shift at 2:00 p.m. without making a notification, should have they known by 2:00 p-m., at the very least, that he was not coming back? MS. a: Absolutely. MR. a : Okay. So, at some point, prior to 2:00 p.m., a notification should have been made? MS. a: Yes. Yes. MR. a: And you mentioned that it should have been to the SHU Lieutenant. Lieutenant JM is not there. And it should have been the ops lieutenant. Who was the ops lieutenant during that shift? The morning Ph t. MR. a : And he should have been shi EFTA00125703

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 48 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 notified, and what should have Po done? MS. a: He should have notified, of course, his chain of command, which is the captain, hey, Epstein’s cellmate has left, and he needs a cellmate. And that, also, we would have told psychology, you know, Epstein’s cellmate left. He needs a cellmate because somebody vetted the cellmates. So, I would say, I guess, they would go back to that process of seeing who was a good fit for him. MR. a : And if - what is your understanding - if that notification was never made up the chain of command? MR. a : What’s your question? MS. a: Yeah. MR. a : What is your understanding, if they never made -? Was somebody at fault, in terms of -. I should clarify that. If that notification never got -. If ) never told the ops lieutenant, and the ops lieutenant never told the captain, right? When was the next time they would have caught onto the fact Epstein needed a cellmate? MS. a: Again, I would say somewhere EFTA00125704

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 between that shift, they should have made that notification. If not, it would have went onto the evening shift, that he still was without a cellmate. MR. a : And you said that the inmate was vetted. So, could anyone have assigned a cellmate to Epstein? Anyone in the SHU assigned somebody to be Epstein’s cellmate? MS. a: Normally, in a case where they try to get that good fit, they would talk to the captain, who would talk to psychology, and they’1l go through the SHU roster to see who they think would be suitable to put him in with. MR. a: Okay. Do you have anything else on that? MR. ae : Yes. So, when you go to - you said the next shift - so, who -? So, you’re saying that, after | left, and his shift left, then the next shift in the SHU should have, then, made the same notifications up the chain of command? MS. a: If they’re saying he didn't have a cellmate. MR. a : Okay. And then, would 49 EFTA00125705

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 50 10 11 12 13 14 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 that go on again to the morning watch? Because, again, he didn't have a shift for 24 hours. So, every shift, should have they made that notification up? MS. a : I would say yes. MR. QJ: okay. And is it your understanding that the operations lieutenant actually has that same court list, that they would have had, that would have shown him as WAB? MS. a : The court list, yeah. Usually, it’s in the lieutenant’s office, in the mornings. MR. QJ: Okay. so, if QE says that he actually knows that Reyes left, or thought he went to court, and didn't know if he wasn’t going to come back, if he had that court list, that said WAB, should have he referenced that, or looked at it? MS. QJ: $9 Right. MR. QM: ves? MS. a: Yes, sir. MR. a : Okay. So, is that a kind of an excuse to say, for the operations lieutenant, hey, I know Reyes left, but I EFTA00125706

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 51 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 thought he was coming back, and he - or I didn't know if he wasn’t coming back - and he did not pass that information onto the next ops lieutenant. Is there - what is your opinion of that matter? MS. a: My opinion of that is definitely, you know, something is wrong, because if you have the court list sitting in front of you, it says WAB. And it means he took all his belongings. You know, if it was court, it would say court. MR. a : Okay. And do you know how, do the operations lieutenants actually look at that list? MS. a: I can't speak for -. MR. a : Are they supposed to? MS. a : I would say yes. MR. a : Okay. MS. a: Because you know who’s moving from the Special Housing. And some of the inmates that move actually are lieutenant moves, where you have to go up and get them. So, you're going to look at the court list to see who is moving. MR. a : Okay. And then, as far EFTA00125707

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 52 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 as a. Did everyone know who Reyes was at that time? Do you believe that, if, for instance, someone like a a. he sees Reyes on the list, sees that he’s WAB. Would he know that’s Epstein’s cellmate? It says he’s from the SHU. He’s WAB. Would he know that that’s Epstein’s cellmate? Or do you think that that notification would still need to be made from the SHU, for him to be able to kind of recognize that? MS. a : I can't even say he should have known that that was his cellmate because he’s in a different area than the Special Housing. MR. a : Okay. MS. a: So, sometimes, you wouldn’t know whose cell that up there, you know, up in the Special Housing. MR. a : Okay. But if he says, now, SHU didn't tell me, but I knew because I had the court list, and it says WAB, should have he known, at that point, yes, I knew this guy was gone, and he was not coming back? MS. a : Yes. EFTA00125708

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LIMITED OFFICIAL US w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 wo ios) MS. a: I can agree with that. MR. a : Okay. Great. What do you think the -? Would that court list stay in the operations, or the lieutenants office, throughout the duration of the day, would the next operation lieutenant that came on - which I believe is Cannata - would that person have also had that court list? MS. a: It normally stay in there for the day. On a clipboard. It usually would be on a clipboard in the lieutenant’s office. So, I don’t -. I can't say that Cannata, you know, looked at it, but it should have been there when he came on. MR. a : Should have he looked at it? MS. a: I could -. MR. a : And I'm asking you this as the SIS lieutenant. We don’t know the answer to that. So, that’s why we’re asking you. MS. a: A good lieutenant would. MR. QJ: Right. MS. a : Because you would know who is not in your jail. EFTA00125709

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 54 w ~] ive) MR. Ee : Right. As far as other people that could have made this notification, what would the unit teams’ responsibility be for if one of their people who was assigned to SHU, left the institution? Should have they been coordinating, or making any notifications? MS. a: I'm not sure what role they play when the inmates leave the Special housing, to be honest with you. MR. a : You don’t? MS. a: Yeah. I don't know what role they play. MR. a : Okay. MS. a: With their inmates. That’s an issue, as far as them leaving. MR. QJ: «411 right. So, for you, though, you feel, like, the primary person that would be responsible would be the person who was actually with the inmate, who brought him down, and knew that he was leaving? Ms. QR: yes. MR. Ee : So, in this case, a . | should have made the notifications, it falls primarily on him. Is that what you would say? EFTA00125710

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 55 1 MS. I would say him and whatever other officer did the escort with him. ies) Fs) Okay. Fair enough. 4 MS. ae: Because they know the w t =) | wu ct 0] w 6 MR. QJ: Right. okay. 7 MR. a: What about the officers in 8 the SHU, at that point? Let’s say there was - 9 how many officers that you mentioned? - a. 10 and who else In the morning shift. Joiner. 4 MR Joiner 15 MS Yes. ive) 7) A t oO a Should they have -. Would they have known that Epstein needed a cellmate? oo 179) Yes. If they’re working up - wo h - I would 20 MR. SE: be o w y, during this 21 shift, should they have understood - I know he 22 asked already - should they have understood the 23 fact that, hey, Epstein needed a cellmate -- 24 MS. a : Yes. a: -- could they have made EFTA00125711

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LIMITED ive) w wo ive) fea] oo its) OFFICIAL USE notification? And MR. MR. have notificat I'm assuming, would know MS. M So, rounds? our - based on what w And who came to the SHU aae hing el that? on And they would ha from doing rounds? om doing their rounds. And if they we -- doing rounds, they Mm-hmm. the counts. So, based on EFTA00125712

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] oO 10 11 J uw we understood is, the 4:00 p.m. count, on the 9th. The 10:00 p.m. count. Mm-hmm. : The midnight. The 3:00 a.m., and the 5:00 a.m. counts were not done. HM: «Bight. MR. a: And if the counts were done, as Agent | just asked, if the counts were done at 4:00 p.m., would they have known that Reyes was not there, and Epstein needed a cellmate? Ms. BR: ves. MR. a: What about at 10:00 p.m.? MS. BJ: 9 Yes. MR. a: All right. And the reason that we were able to determine it, is also because of the fact that inmate Fernandez was removed from the SHU by ae . He was actually in the SHU visiting room, and there was an incident where J) witnessed him possibly having contraband, so he removed him. He called for a lieutenant, and put him into a dry cell in R&D. MS. Mm-hmm. MR. a : Except he was not keyed out. EFTA00125713

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 58 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 This happened around 1:45 on August 9th, after -. Except he was not keyed until after midnight on August 10th. So, if he was removed from the SHU, and he was placed in R&D dry cell, who should have -? Who had the responsibility to key him out, at that point? off the SHU and place him in R&D? MS. a: It would have been the counts and assignment, to walk those in. MR. QJ: 9 vhat’s a cna? MS. a : Yes. MR. a : I see. Counts and assignment. And how would CNA have known that he got moved? MS. a: Well, normally, they would make a notification, I would say, when he got to R&D, that, hey, we have this inmate here, in the dry cell. MR. MJ: «= So, R&D should have notified counts and assignments? MS. a: Yes. MR. a: Was there any responsibility for the officer who removed him from the SHU, and brought him down? MS. a: He could have, as well. EFTA00125714

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 59 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Because you brought him down. And he’s coming off of the SHU base count. MR. a: What is -? He’s coming off the count -- MS. QJ: 9Right. MR. a: -- so, at 4:00 p.m., the count should have been adjusted on the El, and also -- MS. a: Absolutely. MR. a : -- okay. Have you ever heard of inmates pre-filling the rounds and count sheets? MR MS. a : Inmates? . a: Oh. Sorry. Sorry. I apologize. Have you ever heard of the C.0O.s pre-filling the rounds and count sheets? When, let’s just say the rounds at the start of their shift. MS. a: Yes. MR. QJ: Right? And they go in, they have their round sheet. They expect to do the rounds during the certain times, so they go in and they fill it out for the whole shift. And they try to do it during those times that they filled out. EFTA00125715

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 honest with you. un. i: doing that? Would they start 60 I’ve never seen it, to be I’ve never seen that. Have you ever heard of C.O.s No. Has there ever been any Not that I know of. What about the count sheets? the shift, they already know what count is supposed to be there? I’ve seen that. And what have you seen? Well, my experience being a lieutenant, and being in the control center, taking the count, I have seen count slips come down to the control center, and I'm monitoring the camera because I'm physically watching you count. So, if I haven't seen you have your count sheet, and I count yet, I'm discarding it, and I'm calling you on the phone. How do I have your count sheet and you haven't counted yet? un. i: lieutenant, when Is that normal procedure as a you’re doing the count from EFTA00125716

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 61 w ~] oO 10 11 the control room, you pay attention to the monitor, and you watch -? MS. a: I could only speak for myself. MR. a: So, aS your practice. MS. EJ: 31 do. MR. a: Okay. MS. a: Yes. MR. a: And you watch the C.0.s to make sure that they’re doing the counts. MS. a: Absolutely. MR. a: Which C.0.s have you seen that haven't done that? That haven't done the counts, but send their count slips in. names because I’ve been on all of the shifts. is] fft. I can't give you exact MR. a: And what happens if, ina situation like that, if you see that, that they didn't do the count, but they send the slip down? What do you do? MS. a: I'm pulling. I'm doing a verbal counseling. MR. a: Verbal counseling. MS. a: Yes. I'm doing a verbal counseling. Basically, listen, don’t send me EFTA00125717

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 62 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 your count slip until you do your count. Next time, I'm going to go to the next step, which is discipline. MR. And have you ever told them to go back and count? MS. a: Yes. MR. a : And they followed it? MS. a: Yes. MR. a: What is a lieutenant round? You understand it, you just mentioned that, when you do a count -- MR. a : In the SHU. What is a lieutenant round in the SHU? MR. QJ: 9 -- yeah. MS. J: =n the SHU, with the lieutenant rounds, you go up to SHU, as well as every other area, you see if there’s anything abnormal going on in the SHU, you’re going to ask a question. You know, anything we should know about, anything you got going on up there. You’re just making sure that the officers are doing their job for the shift, the inmates are getting their phone calls, if there’s any inmates that haven't been showered, who may shower. You’re making sure those are done. EFTA00125718

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 63 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Normally, when you go in the SHU, you have inmates calling you, once you get there. mR. QM: Right. MS. a: Once the door open. So, you’re going on the ranges and seeing what’s going on with the inmates on the ranges. MR. a : Now, are you supposed to go from door to door, when your lieutenant does a round, though? Is the lieutenant supposed to do a round just as, like, a C.O. that’s working the SHU does a round, go to each cell, to check and see -- MS. a : To be honest -- MR. QJ: | -- what's going on? MS. a: -- I don’t think there’s nothing in policy stating that we have to go door to door, and see each inmate, but you - most of the time - you will go on a range, I would assume, because you want to see what’s going on. With the inmates. Especially since it’s the Special Housing. MR. a : So, this is where we get a lot of discrepancies. So, most of the lieutenants say absolutely, you have to go door to door, and that’s what a round is. A select EFTA00125719

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 64 w ~] few of the lieutenants say, like, no, no, no, no, that’s not -. It’s your discretion, if you do that or not. So, are you kind of more of that, that kind of side of it, it’s their discretion? MS. a: I'm more of -. MR. a : Because they have to sign when they - is it correct - that they have to sign the round sheet -- MR. a : -- saying they dida round? MS. a: So, normally, like myself, I would be on the range, because the round sheets are on the range. So, you have to go on the range to sign the round sheets. MR. a : But do you have - but just to go on the range, I guess you don’t necessarily have to look in -- MS. EJ: 9 Right. MR. a : -- their window. Correct? MS. a: Right. But if you go on, you’re going to look door to door. I would think. EFTA00125720

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 65 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a : But this time, our understanding is the round sheets were actually kept on the officer’s desks. On the desk out - So, not on the range. They all did it right from where the desk was. Do you know if that’s the case? MS. a : I don't. I don't know. This is the first I'm hearing of it. Because normally, they’re at the end of the range. MR. QJ: | Right. MS. a : On the wall. So, that’s going to force you, as a supervisor, to go on each range because you have to go to the end of the range to sign. MR. a : Okay. Do you know if there is maybe, MCC didn't have this practice, but do you know, as the BOP, as a lieutenant round that’s conducted in the SHU, and that the lieutenant that actually signs the round sheet, saying that they conducted the round in the SHU, do you know if BOP policy says that they’ re supposed to go from cell, door to door, and that’s the reason why they put these sheets at the end of the ranges? MS. a: I don’t recall if that’s what EFTA00125721

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 66 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 the policy says. MR. I: Okay. Ms. QJ: 9 Yeah. MR. a: And just as far as clarification, do you know if BOP policy states where the count sheets, or the round sheets are supposed to be kept? Forget the fact that you have to look at it, but does it state that it should be either kept on the officer’s desk, or at the end of the -? MS. a : I’ve never seen -- MR. a : Okay. MS. a : -- yeah. I’ve never seen that policy where it should be kept that. MR. a: Okay. That’s just practice? MS. a: Yes. MR. a : Okay. Do you have anything on the rounds and counts? MR. No. I guess I just, do you think if the lieutenants that did the rounds within the SHU, on August 9th, have any exposure to the fact that Reyes was gone, and should have they - when they did their rounds - should have they known that, hey, this cell is empty, Epstein’s down at attorney conference, EFTA00125722

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] 67 and Reyes isn't here, so there’s no one in that cell. Should have they been, you know, should have they known -? slip - I'm sorry was WAB, and you if you’re paying That’s something If you knew that on the count - on the court roster that he see Epstein downstairs, then attention, you would just -. you would have asked. Hey, we got a cellmate for him yet? Who he’s going with. That type of thing. MR. a : Okay. So, those lieutenants that the SHU, on that actually did do the rounds in date, then they do have some fault in this, that Reyes was never replaced? n I'm going to say ye MR. Anything else on rounds and counts? I'm moving onto cameras. Perfect. Okay. When did you learn that the cameras were not working at the MCC? August 8th. August 8th. Okay. EFTA00125723

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 68 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. a : Yes. MR. QJ: «scan you tell us what transpired? MS. a: I actually was reviewing the cameras from the SIS office, with one of the associate wardens. We were looking for an inmate, to see what time he was released, a cadre (Phonetic Sp. *00:50:30) inmate. We were looking to see what time he was released because I was trying to backtrack, because I was going to interview the inmate, with an OIG officer, about an incident. And I learned, he’s gone. And I said, gone where? Oh, his release date - which, he was scheduled to be released - so, that made me go back to look to see, well, let me see what time they released him. And we were trying to pinpoint when he got released, so we could get in touch with that halfway house. So, we - myself and the agent - was going to go to the halfway house, to interview him. And upon me going back to the cameras, I said, wait a minute, we don’t have no cameras. I can't go back. So, of course, I clicked on several cameras, just to see if I could play it EFTA00125724

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 69 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 back on the cameras, and I noticed the cameras are down. I can't go back and rewind anything. At that time, I called the communications shop, and told them, I don’t have no cameras up here. You know, I can't go. I can't play it back. A gentleman came upstairs and said, okay, I'm going to come and check the camera system, which he has the keys for, as well. And he did check it out, and he said, okay, the cameras is not working. I'm going to fix them. I'm going to do overtime or something to that effect. To fix the cameras. At that time, I notified the captain. MR. QJ: 0h, you notified the captain? MS. a: Yes. MR. ae : That the cameras were down? MS. a: That the cameras was down. And I wrote a memo - a memorandum - as well. MR. a : Oh, if you have that, can you please give it to us? MS. a: It’s - I can't get in my home drive - it would be on my home drive. MR. a : And when will you be able EFTA00125725

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) nN ive) fea] oo wo No N No Wa OFFICIAL USE 70 to get access to that? I'm out of work. So, I can't MR. Ee : Oh, we have heard that you were back this week. Is that not the ca I'm not back this week. I only came for the interview. I won't be back another two to three we MR. a : When you come back in two or three weeks, could you - I’1l1 send you an email, just as far as, like -- email me where to send it to, yes. MS. a: So, at that point, I did type the memo that the cameras was done. I was going to say. If you Fantastic. This is on the 8th? On the 8th. C to 5 on H wp ifs) ifs Cc | i) o rt =) wp rt rt a 1) es. gentleman was going to stay and fix the cameras EFTA00125726

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4 person who came fos) 10 keys which is the ive) co mR. QJ: -- into the sis -- him into that part. D fu on fix EFTA00125727

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 72 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 it? MS. a: And do overtime to fix it. MR. QR: Okay. MS. a: Because I let him into the office, so he can go see what I was telling him, the cameras is down. I can't play back. MR. QJ: «Okay. And do you know if that’s the first time it was noticed, that those cameras were down? MS. a : I can't say that that was the first time that was noticed. MR. a : Because our investigation shows that, as early as 7/29/2019, those cameras stopped recording. So, there is about half of the cameras in the institution that were recording, and half that weren’t. They were all live monitoring. MS. a: Yes. MR. a : But did you find anything about that, or do you know anything about that? MS. a: No. No. It’s not until I was actually in the phone room, with the agents, going through the cameras, that we realized that they stopped recording. MR. a : Oh, so, you knew this on EFTA00125728

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 73 1 3 -- = 6 in 8 you had heard, later, 9 that at 15 16 -- 7/29 and 17 August 8th -- 18 Ms. QJ: §9=vhe 10th. 19 MR. a : -- you 23 MR. QJ: So, the 8th was the first 24 time EFTA00125729

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 74 1 MR. Ee : Do you remember if, prior 2 to the 8th, you ever were on the camera system, 3 trying to rewind and watch? Because I would 4 think that’s something you do kind of 5 regularly. 6 MS. a: I can't remember if it was 7 myself, or the SIS Tech i. to be honest with 8 you, because normally, if it’s an incident and 9 I need some video footage, I’1l ask her to pull 10 the footage for me. You know? So, I can see 11 it. So, I can't recall if we had an incident 2 where we need to pull any camera footage. 3 MR. a : Okay. So, you don’t 4 remember if there was footage before that. 15 Ms. QJ: 9 No. 16 MR. a : Was there a Tech i. or 7 i. or something like that? 8 MS. a : Phone monitor. 9 MR. a : He was on -- 20 MS. QJ: 9 Yeah. [RJ was the phone 21 monitor, which is a regular correctional 22 officers 23 MR. a : Oh, so, he’s EFTA00125730

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LIMITED ies) w fos) ite) ive) oo OFFICIAL USE All right. work in the SIS room? In the phone Okay. But would he room. MS. RJ: se would be assigned, for the quarter, to the phone room. That’s i] =a =) to SIS. need someone f It’s not in my The phone r Is that the room office, but oom. It’s kind where he phone monitor keys, half the keyring for him to get into the To get int o-- area? EFTA00125731

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LIMITED ~] wo i=) 11 ~) on OFFICIAL USE MR. a : Okay. So, do you know if he was working on the 9th? MS. ae: I don’t know if he was working because he hadn’t been in the phone room for some -- MR. a : Would he be listed on the MS. a : -- let me look. Because they were actually pulling him every day, re- assigning him to different posts. So, he is working, but they re-assigned him to another post. MR. a : Okay. So, he wasn’t - on the 9th - he wasn’t actually working? MS. ae: If you see three Sally, you’11 see him there. MR. a : And would that be because there was no SIS tech or lieutenant to allow him into that room? MS. ae: No. It would be because they were short-staffed. MR. a : Okay. MS. a : And they just re-assigned him to another post. EFTA00125732

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) ~ a 7) MR. Ee : Okay. So, if | say that he wasn’t able to fix the cameras on the 8th because he didn't have the proper equipment, and then he couldn’t gain access on the 9th. Does that make sense? He wasn’t able to get in on the 9th because neither you or the tech were here. MS. a: He would be able to get in because my keys don’t go home with me. He would have just had to ask the captain for access to the SIS keys, and he would have been able to go into the office. MR. a : And like you said, the captain actually knew that the cameras were down? MR. a : And you are positive of MS. a: I'm positive. MR. QJ: Did you have a verbal conversation with him about it? MS. a: I had a verbal conversation. MR. a : And can you recall what that conversation entailed? MS. a : I remember stepping to his EFTA00125733

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LIMITED No No iN ies) w fos) ite) ive) oo its) iat) OFFICIAL USE 78 office, which was right next door to mine, and notifying him that the cameras was down, I'm trying to back and look at the and I can't. Actually, I had ciate wardens with me, as well. Who happens to be his supervisor, so. Associate Warden ia. MS. a: It was me and her together, looking at the cameras. wasn’t MR. a : And that was with Captain K ii 17) 5 then, the two were down? ig All right. And do you EFTA00125734

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) ~—) to MS. a: I don't know if they had a separate conversation, but when I called Mr. | over to radio, Ms. || was still standing there with me in the office. And she was there with me when he came up to check, because we thought it was something that maybe he can just go in, and it allow us to go to the camera, and look for what we were looking for. MR. a : And when he mentioned the whole I’ll stay overtime, was she there when -— was || there - when he mentioned that he would stay to work overtime? MS. a: I can't remember because I know he had to get in touch with his boss first. MR. a : Oh, okay. So -- MS. a: Mm-hmm. MR. a : -- so, | told us that he was approved to work overtime on Saturday, to come in on Saturday and work. Do you know who he would have contacted, in order to get that approval to work overtime? MS. a: I don't know. I would assume his boss, which was Mr. a. MR. Ee : Now, | is out, and EFTA00125735

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LIMITED No ies) w fos) wo ive) oo OFFICIAL USE 80 he has acting in his place, a. and talk to me about working overtime. Is there that he would hi because you said that he told you he was going MR. a : Would you be an approving how did he La] ix know he would be able to work overtime to MS. a : I don't know. MR. ae : You don’t know? He just said I’1l work overtime. this was some time prior to 2:00 p.m. on the 8th, EFTA00125736

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 81 i) 177) Ke o wu I ket rt = w wn ny] b I rt ct be o oy] Fh rt i] KK WwW b ue] =} 4 MR. : Okay. And that was the w oo rt a x D 20 ct x was the first that 4 8 were down? Do you 9 anyone could have 0 -em, to intentionally I don’t know. I don't know WwW o o a fu Cc n o nobody normally goes into - with the 4 service are - besides him. Or there’s one more communication tech, Mr. | og 16 MR. a : Was he there, though, at oO 77) o 23 MS. ae: Yes. It was just 24 MR. a : So, who would ! 25 access to that server room? In the MCC as a EFTA00125737

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 8 1 whole, who could have had access to that server 2 room, and potentially taken it offline? MS. a : I don't know who would 4 intentionally take it off, but I can tell you ies) w ct J oO w Q Q o ci) nH would have been us, from the SIS 6 shop. Hmm. The comm shop, which is Mr. | 7 and Mr. a. And I'm not sure if their key - fos) bh Kh fF that key is on, in the other key ring. ts) 7) u fe) a if bh ct really only the i=) two of you, then, with SIS, then 1 monitor individual, JJ. Is it JJ or HP also the phone ive) Fs) H 7) ct J wu rt MS. ae: I don’t think Mr. || had the 7 key on his ring because, if I needed to go, my fea] oo ink cartridges for my printer and stuff was in 9 there, as well. So, I would always lock the don’t allow an officer to No ox) n Oo | EFTA00125738

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 83 5 MR. a : But the tech would h: oO ss) c = £ yourself, the tech, Oo k co I t i] C 5] P i) x Oo ke ai pe EFTA00125739

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 84 1 Ms. BR: =< -- 2 MR. a : Oh, you don’t know? oO wo MR. a : -- was that | wa only tech at the time. a) 12 was in the building, but I know ma is who I 13 dealt with at the time. 15 16 it may on Mr. 17 the facilities 18 But again, I'm not sure wo a 20 MR. ae : What about 21 MS. ae: I don’t know. 22 MR. Ee : Now, when you -- EFTA00125740

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LIMITED ~] wo i=) 11 OFFICIAL USE 85 ever leave the institution with these ke, you give them to the captain, or where are the keys? MS. ae: No. They’re located in the control center, behind a locked box. MR. QE: okay. MS. a: So, I have to give them the key to open my locked box in order for me to retrieve my SIS keys. MR. a : Okay. And then, does anybody else have that key, to open your locked box, to get those keys? MR. a : What are -? You said the captain does, though? I thought you said he could have gone to the captain to get the keys. MR. a : He can't get into my locked box. He has his own locked box. MR. a : So, how would -. I think you -. I thought you said that the captain could have allowed | to get in -? MS. a: He would have had them allowed to break the glass, and get my key out. MR. a : They would have had to -- MS. a: If it was another -- EFTA00125741

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. Ee : -- actually break it? 2 MS. ae: -- they would have to oo fon) 3 actually break the keys. Myself, the SIS tech, 4 all of our keys are in a locked box. So, if 5 it’s an emergency, you would have to break the 6 glass to retrieve our keys. 7 MR. a : And in this case, you 8 believe that would be an emergency, that they 9 were to break the glass to fix the cameras on 10 the 9th? a: Normally, yes. 2 MR. ae : So, you think that that would have been appropriate action, to break ive) c w th n K i) n 16 MR. a : Okay. And then, the 7 captain does not actually have a key to get 8 into the SIS office, though? 20 MR. QM: Does anyone else? JL 22 MS. a: No. I think it’s only on the 23 SIS staff, the phone monitor, the SIA, which we 24 didn't have one at the time. 25 MR. Ee : Okay. But you’re certain EFTA00125742

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ies) w ~] wo i=) 11 ive) oo ~J that | and ia. on the 8th, were aware that there was a camera issue, and not recording? MR. a : Do you know if they notified the warden? MS. a: I don’t recall. MR. a : Okay. MS. a : Because I notified the warden. And he seemed a little -- MR. a : Notified the warden, when? MS. a: -- on the 10th. MR. QJ: Okay. Ms. QJ: 9 on the 10th. Once I came in, once the incident happened. And me and him was having a conversation, and he was saying, and there’s no cameras working, and I said, what do you mean there’s no cameras working? I said, WM 2s supposed to fix the cameras on the 8th, and, you know, he was surprised, like, what are you talking about? And I said, the cameras went down on the 8th. Warden and I notified ma that the cameras was down. And I said, I wrote a memo. EFTA00125743

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. Ee : And what happened with 2 your memo? Who gets that memo? MS. a : My memo, I usually give it to 4 the captain. oo co ies) wi aw Okay. And do you know, did you give it to the captain? MM: §3 ts did give it to him. I mailed it, as well, to the -. I oe 3 B Q 7 rt J fu oO o wo I might i=) 1 MR. a : And would have you -? And I might have emailed it ive) I can't remember -- 5 MS. a: -- exactly who I sent it to. a : -- you know, when you come in, can you check your sent box, and see t oO a ie] = fh ie) 3 the - you would have done this on the 9 8th, though? 20 MS. BJ: = been on the No R a ct og No ox) wh K 0) a) 24 MR. a : So, you would hav 25 sounds, like, potentially - hand-delivered to ye - it EFTA00125744

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 8 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) to him? MS. QJ: 9 m-hon. MR. a : And emailed, or both? Or I mean, one or the other? MS. a: Normally, because he’s next door, I would hand deliver him stuff. MR. a : Okay. MS. a: To be honest. And sometime, would email it to him if his door is closed, and I don’t see him. Or don’t know if I'm going to see him before I leave. MR. a : Okay. But you are positive, on the 8th, you gave him that memo, one way or the other? MS. a: Yeah. I'm almost - though, I'm not going to say 100 percent sure - but I know I verbally told him that the cameras was down. MR. a : Are your 100 percent sure that there was a memo, though? Ms. QR: yes. MR. Ee : But you may - when you say you’re not 100 percent sure - when else would have you potentially done that memo? MS. a : No. I did the memo on the EFTA00125745

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LIMITED ies) w fos) wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE Oh. not 100 you’ re If I -- -- right, you’re not -- I'm emailed it to him, clearing that gave him that memo. ave it MR. MS. MR. And I notified him, down. just to make sure I'm want know for a up. you know if don’t K © n definitely, he EFTA00125746

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LIMITED ies) w fos) ite) ive) oo OFFICIAL USE 91 regardless, bo rt > w 5 a Fo 5 i] = \ I She was at all, with I can't remember if she th stayed with me. I think she walked away. get what they both under the actually working on did they ask, well, of this, or anything MS. a : No. I don’t remember them I just know -- EFTA00125747

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LIMITED ies) w fos) wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE 92 MR. Ee : No. When you verbally ke with a. though, and FY about the situation, did you say, I notified a. he sp said he’ll take care 18) f it, or anything like MR. a : What about the captain, though? Did he know? MS. ae: No. He wasn’t ne MR. a : Did he ask, like, i | going to fix it, or anything like that? MS. a : No. He didn't -- r me. U w 7) EFTA00125748

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LIMITED ies) w fos) ive) oo OFFICIAL USE wo ot) MR. a : That was my question. a: I apologize. MR. ae : -- so, he did know that not, like, it’s not normal. Sometimes, they do go down. You know? t’s our job to notify who we need to notify to bring them back up. But -. notification? vs. BE: «1 EFTA00125749

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 94 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a : Okay. MS. a: I can't recall. MR. a : And did | ever come back and tell you that he couldn’t fix it that day, on the 8th? MS. a: No. He told me that on the 10th. MR. ae : What did he tell you on the 10th? MS. a : Once I walked into the Special Housing area on the 10th, he was there. I don’t know if he was working that day. But he was there, and when the door opened, you know, my response was, well, what happened to the cameras? And he said, oh, that’s what I'm here for today. Which was two days later. I'm here today to fix it. But I guess they pulled him, and put him on the post, or something to that effect. And I said, but you told me you was going to fix them on the 8th. And he was, like, I couldn’t fix them on the 8th. I can't remember why he said he couldn’t. But I think he responded to me before I could even ask the question, once he saw me because I was a little taken back that the cameras were down. Because EFTA00125750

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 95 w ~] I assumed they was going to be fixed on the 8th MR. QR: Okay. MR. a: Can I ask you, when you guys were - you and AW || - were reviewing footage, and you realized it wasn’t working, you called a. What was | reaction to finding out the cameras were not working? MS. a: He said he was going to come down and take a look at it. MR. a: Did he mention it was an ongoing - it was already an issue, he was aware of it, or was that the first he was hearing about it? Do you recall? Ms. QJ: =oNo. He didn't -- MR. GJ: 9 No? MS. a: -- he didn't say. He just said, okay, I'm going to come take a look at it. MR. QJ: 9 And then, he came down, both of you guys were in the room, and he tried to - MS. a: No. I wasn’t in there with him. I just opened the door so he could get in. And he went in, and he came back, and he EFTA00125751

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LIMITED ies) w fos) wo ive) oo OFFICIAL USE said, yeah, a phone call, or he walked said, I'm going to stay tonight. MR. say “tonight”? MS. ay. And if would be on h Well - It should It didn't. -- wel MR. QJ: 9 okay and the other § able to still stay camera room, to be able to MS. should | they’ re not recording, away one, he did is o i) o o l, WwW the 8th, in work wo an and he made and he and do overtime, no, we know he r as, been ould he have the on it? i] b er 0 a oO o rt bh =] i) fr) fe) Q fe) EFTA00125752

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 97 1 home. And the captain would say, okay, well, 2 leave your keys with me, you know, so he could 6 MR. a : So, when you left that 7 day, did you check back in with ma at all, oe ct O n wu het ~ bt bh ~ o | | I sure didn’t. 1 Ms. QJ: 91 dian’t. 2 MR. ae : Okay. And do you know 3 what he did after you told him I'm going to o 7) know what he did? 5 16 No. Did he stay in the 7 room, -? 8 MS. a : No. He left out the room. 9 He left out the room. 20 MR. QJ: 411 right. And then, did 21 you leave before the other tech, on the 8th? 22 MS. a: I would have left probably eaves at 2:00. 24 MR. a : Uh-huh. What time? 25 MS. a: I can't remember what No ox) wu ial rt i) H J oO K a o Q wu Cc a] 0) e) a o b oO EFTA00125753

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE wo o 1 happened that day. 3 MS. a : Normally, I'm there between 4 2:00 -. More closer to 3:00, I'm leaving. So. wi i Cc tas w he u oO if you both 6 at 2:00 or 3:00, and he said he 7 was coming back that day it, how would 8 have he done that? 9 MS. a : Because I would have spoken 10 to the captain and said, hey, P| needs to 11 get in the com room. 2 MR. ae : Do you remember, did that 3 conversation ccur? 4 MS. a: I honestly don’t remember. remember. fea] 8 MR. a : Okay. 9 MR. a : Nice Vision has that 20 administrative feature. Nice Vision is the 21 camera -— 24 administrative feature is called Supervision. 25 Do you recall that? EFTA00125754

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) ite] to MS. J: ann. MR. QJ: 9owell -. MR. a : There was a couple different -- MR. QJ: 9 Name MR. a : -- names, for different applications, but there is one application called Supervision, and that you might be able to log into Supervision and see if the recorder errors are actually recording. Do you know if you got access to that? MS. a: No. I have - mine is SIS lieutenant access, so. MR. QJ: Right. MR. a: Who had administrative access to the camera system? MS. a: Meaning that Supervision? MR. a: Supervision. Who could go in, control the cameras, or take cameras offline? And mess with the cameras. MS. a: I don’t know. I would say computer services have access, and probably, I would say, facilities managers should have Supervision access. MR. QJ: 9=put not the Shop? wo I ioe) EFTA00125755

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 100 N Fs Ww 5 is) | 1 wi aw 6 re saying? 7 I don’t know. I don’t even 8 know if P| would access 9 -. I don’t know. I uld think, if 10 Supervision, it would be upper -- slon 2 doesn't mean super -. It’s not a title for, the -. It’s a title for the Wa c bh ta o 07) 2) 3 o o 2) o c 5 fea] oO 77) Oo a 9 that allows you to 20 things are running y, and recording, and it’s just called 22 Supervision. MS. ae: Oh, okay. 24 MR. a : That doesn't mean -- 25 MS. a: Then that would be -- No ox) EFTA00125756

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 101 1 MR. Ee : -- that you’re a 2 supervisor. MS. a : -- that would be - I would 4 say - that would be a. because that’s his ies) w area, the cameras. 6 MR. a : Okay. And do you know if 7 anybody else would have the ability to do 8 things like that, to take, you know, recorders to at least check their o oO 3 oO RK °o Fh i) fa c 5 o oO R a i=) with the camera system? a: I don't know. I would be facilities shop. v Hh = ct p-. n ct nN Ww j n ie) ion & rt ue] A p 3 fi Kh Hs bh he MR. 4 would be the person? 5 Ms. QJ: 9 vm-hon. t fon) m3 oO nw w Lee) 5 Not you, though? 20 MR. ae : And in no way, while you 21 were -. Although, the only thing that would be 22 able to tip you off, if things weren’t 23 recording, is if you started trying to rewind, 24 and it wasn’t rewinding. 25 MS. a: If I tried to rewind, it EFTA00125757

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 102 1 wouldn’t rewind. Or if they were red. It 2 would have, like, a red X on a camera. I know 3 that it’s a problem, even if it’s not working 4 at all. Or something is wrong with it. w a Did that - on the 8th, oO when you were looking - were there any red X's? 7 MS. a: I don’t recall if -. Because 8 it’s a lot of cameras, and they’re in different 9 places So, I don’t recall there being a red oO tad 11 MR. a : But just to -- On any of them. Nm -- circle back. What ive) Fs) 4 tipped you off was with you and || trying to go back and review? F oO mn oO un ie] | ! 21 Ms. J: 9 v-hon. 22 MR. QE: «Gotcha. 23 MR. ae: And prior to that day, you 24 don’t recall when the last time you gu tried to review it was, right? EFTA00125758

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 103 1 MS. a: No. I don’t recall. 2 MR. ae: Okay. So, but it had been a 3 little bit. It had been a little while? a: Okay. Anything wi e-4 a o it) s¢ on the 7 MR. QJ: ts think that’s all. 8 MR a: Okay. 9 MR a : That’s great information, 10 that we didn't know that before. I didn't know 11 that that’s how we found out that the cameras 2 were offline -- ive) MS. J: 9 vm-hon. 4 MR. a : -- was basically your 15 review. How often should | have been 16 going in to check those servers to make sure that they were online? 9 MR. a : So then, would you know 20 if he was? 21 MS. ae: I can't say he was checking 22 daily. I know that he was up there quite 23 often. But I can't even say that he was 24 checking the cameras because, one I let him in, 25 to do whatever he’s doing with the servers, you EFTA00125759

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 104 ~] oO 10 11 know, I wasn’t standing there, you know, saying what are you doing, or, so -- MR. a : And I know we’re talk -- Ms. QJ: 9 -- but daily, they should MR. a : -- I know we’re talking a long time ago now, but do you remember, prior to the 8th, if he was in -? Because again, I is) think the information that we have suggest that the camera servers went down on the actual July 29th -- MR. a : -- of 2019. So, there is, like, almost a - more than a -- Ms. QJ: = week. MR. a : -- week -- MS. a: Yeah. Yeah. MR. a : -- do you know if he was actually going in, at that time, for that week period, checking in on the servers at all, at MS. a: I know he entered the area. But I don’t know if he checked the servers while he were back there. But I know he was entering the area. EFTA00125760

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 105 2 MR. ae: What else is in that area? 3 MS. a : Just the servers in there. 4 And ink cartridges. At the top. 5 MR. a : And that’s on the third 6 floor? 7 MS. a: It’s on the third floor. 9 MR. a : And then, nothing else is 10 stored. Is there ence stored in there? 11 MS. QR: 9 No. 2 MR. a: For some reason, we were 3 under the impression that SIS stored evidence 4 there. 15 MS. a: There’s no evidence in there. 16 It’s some old file cabinets from, maybe before 8 wR. QJ: | and 1 think (J saia 9 that there was maybe, it’s like a hallway, and 20 there’s, like, some evidence, some old 21 evidence, or evidence there. 22 MS. a: Not where the servers are. 23 But it’s some file cabinets, where the servers 24 are. And I think that’s maybe some archive 25 cases from -- EFTA00125761

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 ~] wo i=) 11 MR. QJ: 9 Okay. MR. a : Okay. MS. a : -- a long time ago. MR. ae: So, next topic? MR. : 0 e-hmn. MR. a: Okay. So, what was your understanding about why Epstein was not in his assigned cell? Were you aware that he was - when they found him - and he was not in the cell that he was assigned to in the system? MS. No. I learned that later on, What did you learn? a) -- that he was keyed to one cell, but he was actually living in another cell. So, I don't know where they changed his cell at. MR. a : And is this because the cell rotations that happen in the SHU? MR. ae: And who would have been responsible to make sure that this, once the cell rotation happened -. MR. a : That’s not the reason. So, let’s not go down that path. So, did you EFTA00125762

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LIMITED ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) OFFICIAL USE 107 learn how that happened? How he was keyed into one, and not in another? MR. QM: N0?) Okay. Did you hear -? Does this refresh your memory at all, like, he was initially placed into one cell, when he came back from suicide watch, around July 30th, but then, the CPAP machine didn't actually reach into there, so they had to switch him to another? MS. QR: 9 No. MR. a : No? So, you never heard anything about that? MR. QM: Okay. Go ahead. MR. BJ: 9 So -. MR. a : Who would have been responsible for making those changes in the system, to make sure that he’s in the actual cell where he’s supposed to be there? Ms. QJ: 9=Normally, the SHU OIC make the changes. MR. a : So, it wouldn’t be the lieutenant? It would be the OIC? Ms. QJ: 9yveah. it would be the OIC. EFTA00125763

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LIMITED ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) OFFICIAL USE 108 MR. Ee : Okay. And so, would that be -? Is there an OIC for each shift, or is there one overall OIC? MS. a : There is one for each shift. MR. a : Okay. So, on that note, is it more for, like, the morning watch, the day watch, or the evening watch that would be responsible for that change? MS. a: No. Whatever shift he was moved on, that OIC should have made the change. MR. a : Okay. Okay. And at this point, if the change wasn’t made, is there a way for us to know when that occurred? When they actually moved him from one cell to another cell? MS. a: No. The only way you would know is to rely on the cameras to, you know, rewind and see. MR. a : To see, you know -- MR. a : -- when that actually happened. But the cameras weren’t actually working -- MR. QM: -- from 7/29, and this EFTA00125764

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LIMITED w oO wo i=) Nm ive) fea] oo OFFICIAL USE happened point? MR. they supposed to do MS. have to d on 7/30. 2 ie) o ia he ay fw oa Per set amount. - was five when I shift. 109 There’s no way, at this Go ahe d. Next level? Sure. OQ oO a = it) earches. How often are cell searches in the You’ re taking me back-back. Yeah. There is - I want to say they I don’t know if it’s was an They should be random Is it of the general area, or cell searches. that five -? With the exception of the They usually do the general EFTA00125765

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 110 ive) w wo 12 14 MR. QJ: 411 right. well, 15 ning watch, right? the system? t ie) a) oO wu an Qa 7 v) wo bh ct ie] ho is) b ho And would EFTA00125766

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 111 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 consider that, like, a policy violation? MS. a: Yes. MR. a : If it’s not logged into the system, is it almost as if they never happened? MS. a: Yes. MR. a : Go ahead. MR. a: That’s all I have. I know you looked into the monitor, the phone call that Epstein made the night before, on August 9th, right? And what is your understanding of what transpired? Like, how did he make that phone call? MS. QJ: My understanding is that his unit manager gave him the phone call. On an unsecured line. He placed Epstein in the shower area - that’s what my understanding - and he plugged the phone into an unsecured line, and gave him a phone call. MR. QJ: 9 And based on what we - based on the interviews - it looks like Epstein asked to speak to his mother. MS. a: Right. MR. a : And he asked for, his pack and PIN was not set up. EFTA00125767

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 112 1 MR. QJ: «Well, let’ t is your understanding of what happened? ask her. n iv] 3 MS. a : That was my understanding, 4 that he made a phone call to his mother. w a you learned anything fon) n B 5 Qa 0] ct oe oO 5 7 MS. a: No. Well, I did learn that 8 his mother was deceased on the 10th. wo Fs And do you know who he °o wu aQ ct = wu ~ bh kK Q wu b bh oO o 11 MS. QJ: =I don’t. I don’t. I 2 actually was present when we did get the 3 number, and the NYPD guy called the number 4 back, but I don’t know who it was. 5 MR. a : He actually dialed the t oO se] ey fe) 5 ® to -? Rather fos) 5 | 18) ie] .) 0) Q ~ 9 than doing a search, he called the number that 21 MS. ae: I think he did a search. 23 MS. QJ: 9 think he did a search. And 24 he called the number. 25 MR. Ee : From here? At the tw EFTA00125768

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LIMITED ies) fos) oo OFFICIAL USE 113 MS. a: No. I want to say he might have called from his phone he had. MR. a : He had a cell phone? MS. ae: Yeah. Mm-hmm. I want to he called from his phone. Was this in MR. Did they bring their cell phones into the institution? e had - we got approval for them to bring their phones in, because they was doing an investigation. MR. a : And do you know if someone answered when he called? MS. a : I want to saya f ed, but hung up. mal 0) cu) himself MS. ae: I can't remember. MS. a: I can't remember. EFTA00125769

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LIMITED 1 OFFICIAL U MR. one NYPD at the And is You think? time. MR. of unit m And And wh what should call? who that was at is nave How Who y provided him the pt that? should did 1c 0 114 EFTA00125770

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 115 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MS. a : If he gave him a phone call, it should have been on a secure line. Meaning, the inmate’s line. Because when it’s on the inmate line, you can listen to the phone call. You know, go back. You can monitor it live. And it should have been recorded in the logbook that he received the phone call to the number he received the phone call to. MR. a : And should have he sat there with him, while the call was being placed? MS. a : Yes. MR. a : All right. And do you know anything about there not being a logbook in the SHU, for those telephone calls? MS. a: I know it was -. We were looking for logbooks. I can't remember if that book was one of them, to be honest with you, because I collected so many. So, I can't remember if that actual book was missing. MR. a : Okay. And do you know if | actually did monitor the call, and log it? MS. a : I don’t know. MR. a : You don’t know if he did EFTA00125771

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 116 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 or not? MS. a: I don’t know. MR. a : Okay. Do you know anything -? Did your investigation reveal anything that transpired during that call? MS. a: No. I don't know. MR. a : No. So, you never found anything more? MS. a: I never found anything more. MR. Ee : How serious of a violation do you consider it, if the inmate had - in this specific instance - both provided Epstein the phone call, and put him in the G- tier shower, walked away, and not only walked away, but left the unit? And the inmate could then talk by himself. Is that a pretty significant thing, or -? MS. a : It is. Because it was ona - again - it was on an unsecured line. So, you know, you can't get the recording back, even if you an emergency and you needed to step away for a minute, you know, you still can go and listen back to that phone call, to see if anything transpired. MR. a : Sure. And why is it? Is EFTA00125772

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 117 wi ~] 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 it, like, a potential danger to other inmates in the facility, by being able to provide inmates these unsecured phone calls? MS. a: I would say yes. MR. a : So, it’s a security MS. a: It’s a security issue. MR. a : Okay. And what is your opinion on if, when | - Epstein says he’s calling his mother, and Mr. | calls the number that he gives him, which we don’t have the number for at the time, there’s no list, and a male answers the phone. And then, he provides Epstein with that call. What is your thoughts on that as an SIS lieutenant? MS. a: Okay. Can I -? Just rephrase it. He gave him the phone call, anda male answered the phone call. MR. a : So, Epstein says, I'm calling my mother. This is the number. He calls the number. Mr. | says a male answers the phone. And then provides the phone to Epstein. MS. a : At that point, I wouldn’t have provided the phone to Epstein. I would EFTA00125773

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 118 i) Q 1 have hung th all up. Ww w ue] C o AA rr o wu a ty] mo ie) Q ial # un het a. oO bal w rt p oO 5 wi i Cc tas w he 6 MR. QJ: §9should he have verified who was on the phone? fos) MS. oO AJ t oO i] w =| oO Hh oO R wu have N Fs] Was there a logbook, at that 3 point, in the SHU? 4 MS. a: I don’t know. I don’t know. 5 MR. a: Is there something called 16 endogen (Phonetic Sp. *01:24:39) inmates? 7 Inmates. Now, if -- 8 MS Yes What does that mean? What does that mean? 22 MS. Endogen is inmates that, you 23 know, don’t have any money on their accounts. 24 don’t have no type of resources. No type 25 of money coming in, through family members, or EFTA00125774

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 119 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 anything to that effect. MR. a: Now, if an endogen inmate wanted to make a phone call, what is the procedure for that? MS. a: I'm not too sure how unit team deal with endogen inmate. MR. a: Okay. MS. a: I'm not too sure. MR. a: Is it - have you ever heard the procedure that, if an inmate doesn't any money in the pack and PIN, they can't make any phone calls, the unit team sometimes allows them to make a phone call on the legal line? MS. a: I’ve never heard of that. MR. a : Regardless, if an inmate is speaking on the legal line, it’s always supposed to be -- MS. a: A legal -- MS. a: -- monitored? MS. QJ: -- a legal phone call. Yes. MR. : Where if it’s in this case, that an inmate that doesn't actually have money, if they do allow it, they have to monitor it. Correct? They have to sit there and listen to it with them? EFTA00125775

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 120 ~] wo 10 11 MS. a: They do, but they shouldn’t allow it because it’s a legal line. MR. a : Okay. So, really, the legal line is only supposed to be -- MS. a: Only for legal. MR. a : -- okay. So, not only was this not done properly, they should have never provided Epstein a call from the legal line, is what you’re saying? MS. QJ: 9 Right. MR. QJ: Okay. ve. BR: = like, a pack and PIN set up to utilize for there another line, or, is] inmates that don’t have any money, that want to make calls? Like, you know how pack and PINs are assigned to each inmate. Right? MS. a: Yes. MR. a: Now, if it’s an endogen inmate, and they wanted to make a phone call that’s not legal, is there a special code that the unit team can use? MS. a: I don't know. I don't know. MR. a: And if the captain, if there was a conversation between the captain and the EFTA00125776

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LIMITED ~] oO 10 11 OFFICIAL USE 121 instructed him to monitor it, and log the call, what does that mean to you? MS. a: That mean you should be standing there, listening to the phone call. MR. QJ: 9 Okay. MS. a: And you should be recording it in the logbook. MR. a: All right. Anything else on that? MR. a: Now, let’s talk about August 10th. Right? When did you find out about Mr. Epstein’s death? MS. a: Maybe about 6:00 in the morning. I got a call at home. I got a call at home, by the captain called me. MR. a: Captain a: MS. a: Captain | called me. MR. J: 0 Mm-hon. MS. QJ: 9 And he said we have an emergency. I need you to come up to the institution. And I said, okay. What happened? You know, I'm getting up now. And he said, qh it’s Epstein again. And I said, okay. What happened? You know, with Epstein. And he EFTA00125777

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 122 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 said, Epstein tried to kill himself. So, I said, okay. I got dressed, and I came up to the institution. It’s not until maybe I was here maybe about 45 minutes, when I learned that he was deceased, and then, everybody said, wait, you didn't know? And I said, no, because I heard tried. So, and I remember saying, did he go to the hospital because try mean, okay, did we take him here? And when I got to there, like, no, he’s in the hospital. Like, he’s deceased, and I was, like, oh. Okay. MR. a: Mm-hmm. So, when -. MR. a : Do you know if he was alive when the first officer responded to him? MS. a: Oh, I don't know. MR. a : Do you have anything, any investigative steps that you took reveal anything about that? Like, life-saving measures, like, to keep him alive versus bring him back? MS. a: I don’t know. Just overhearing that they did some CPR measures. But I don’t really know who did what. MR. a : Okay. MR. a: When you arrived at the EFTA00125778

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 123 w ~] facility, around what time was it, approximately? MS. a: Maybe, I know it was before MR. a: And was he already gone, at that point? MS. a: Yes. He was already gone. MR. a: And when you came in, what is the first step you did? MS. a : I just started gathering evidence. You know -? MR. a: Did you go up to the SHU? MS. a: Yes. I went up to the SHU to take whatever logbooks that was up there, and that I could find. I went to the control center to look for the count slips, from the night before, the 9th and the 10th. The warden had took some of the count slips. He beat me to the punch. So, he did give me what he took because it was -. Everybody was just trying to gather up evidence, just -. MR. a: We’re just trying to get a -- MR. QR: on -- MR. a: -- sorry. MR. a : -- and on the count EFTA00125779

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 124 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 slips, did you find anything out about the counts that were conducted, or not conducted, that night? MS. a: On the count slips, I just seen that they were filled out. They were filled out. And I think, I want to say the 10th was missing. Because everybody would run around, looking for the 10th count slip. I can't remember what time. I think the 3:00 and the 5:00, they were looking for. On the count slips. MR. a: When you said they were looking for it, where were they looking for it? MS. QJ: 9 In the control center. MR. a: I see. MS. a : Because that’s where the count slips would be. MR. a : So, they went to -. And so, the captain, or the warden, went down to the control center, they were looking for the 3:00 a.m. and the 5:00 a.m. count slips, and they couldn’t find them? MS. a: I don’t know who actually went in the control center because it’s my understanding they were looking for the count EFTA00125780

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 125 1 slips before I arrived. So, what -. 2 MR. a : Did you do any vetting of 3 the counts, though, to notice, like, if the 4 count slips matched up with the institutional 5 counts, or anything like that? 6 a: Did I do any? vy Yeah. J 5 No. I didn’t. oO fos) BG So, you didn't notice. 10 the count slips having, 11 like, any extra writing on them? Like, 95S+1, 2 or 73+1 Or anything like that? ive) 7 Hmm. I can't remember. So, you don’t remember. I can't remember. Okay. t oO a 7 MR. Do you want to show that? 8 MR No. I mean, yeah, if you 9 want to, if you have it. Sure. 20 MR. QJ: §9=We’11 come back. 21 come back to that. I just had a few questions. 22 So, when you came in, people were already in 23 the SHU, looking for stuff? 24 MS. a : Yeah. 7 Pulling stuff up? EFTA00125781

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 126 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. a : That, it was only the captain gave me a few things. He was looking for his folder. His 292s and stuff to that effect. So That would be Epstein’s -- Epstein’s. Okay. = n Right. So, whatever he found with Epstein, he did give it to me. Whatever he found in the SHU. Again, the count slips were in the warden’s office, what they found. So, I did get those from him. MR. QJ: 9 what is the normal procedure if an inmate dies in prison, or, you know, a suicide happens in prison, what is the normal procedure on the actions to be taken? MR. a : Well, prior to we get into that, why were you all looking for the count slips? MS. a: That’s, like, a procedure, what we do, you know, we look at the count slips to make sure - especially with a suicide in SHU - you want to make sure that the count was conducted. You’re going to review the EFTA00125782

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 127 ~] oO 10 11 cameras and see that the count was conducted. 7] You know, it’s just to make sure, basically everybody is accountable, and do what they needed to do. MR. a : And did you do any of that, trying to ensure that those counts were conducted? MS. a: Well, it was no cameras, and I didn't do an investigation, because at that point, once we notify OIG and FBI, we knew that it would be their investigation. So -- MR. QJ: Right. MS. a: -- I did no investigation. MR. a : And do you know if the counts were conducted? MS. a: I don’t know. MR. a : Okay. MR. a : So, now the procedures. MR. QJ: §9=owWell, on the same note, then. Did they eventually find the count slips? MS. a: They found -. They did find -. I don’t think the 10th was ever located. It could have been. I can't recall. But I know the 10th was the missing count slip. One EFTA00125783

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 128 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 of them went missing or something to that effect, that, you know, OIG kept calling me, and I'm, like, I'm looking for them, I'm going through everything, I'm going through, you know, we were trying to find. It was something missing. I can't remember the timeframe, but it definitely was something missing, at the time. MR. a: But you didn't say, it eventually was found? MR. a : Okay. And do you know -- MS. a : -- I can't remember. MR. QJ: 9 -- so, when you came in, right after you found out about the incident, did you come right to the SHU? MS. a : Yes. MR. a : Who was in the SHU, at that MS. QJ: 31 don’t remember. It was a lot of people. MR. a: When you say a lot of people, like -? MS. a : In and out of the SHU. Like, administration. Like, the captain, I think, EFTA00125784

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LIMITED ~] oO 10 11 OFFICIAL USE 129 was up there at the time. Or I -- MR. QJ: owas -. MS. a: -- I can't even remember what officers was up there, to be honest with you. MR. a: Who was in the cell, at that point? Epstein’s cell. MS. a: Nobody. MR. a: Nobody. Was that sealed off? MS. a: The door was locked. MR. a: Do you know who locked it? MS. a: I don’t know who locked it. MR. a: Okay. And why was the door locked? MS. a: I don’t know, but I'm assuming somebody locked it because they knew it would be -. You know, we would do an investigation on it. MR. a: Do you think it was a possible crime scene? MS. EJ: 9 Right. MR. a: Okay. And they sealed it up so no one came in and out? MS. a: Nobody came in and out. When I got up there, it was locked. We took the CPAP machine, and different stuff out of it, we EFTA00125785

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LIMITED OFFICIAL US 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 did. And we inventoried it in SIS. MR. a: So, that’s a question. So, when you -. It was locked. Since did someone go in, at that point, to take stuff out? MS. a: No. We didn't go in right then and there. No. We roped it off with the yellow tape. MR. QJ: 9 Okay. MS. a: We roped it off with the yellow tape. MR. a: And then, of course, what about the stuff inside the - before we go in this room - what about the stuff in the officer’s desk? Was stuff inventoried out of the desks? Taken stuff, taken out. Like, any MR. a: -- anything related to Epstein. Like, you mentioned that the captain took the folder. Where was that folder -- MR. a: -- taken? MS. a: We couldn't find -. They couldn't find the folder. MR. a: Oh, they couldn’t find the EFTA00125786

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] oO 10 11 folder? n MR. 131 They couldn’t find the folder So, whatever paperwork he got was tuff laying around. desks, and things like that? I'm - yeah - I'm assuming that’s where he got it from. MR. Was an inventory made of those stuff that he took out of the SHU? MR. as an SIS Okay. What are the steps - lieutenant - did you guys take any materials out of the SHU, as evidence? MR. MR. Epstein, What do you mean? Like, did -- Find something? -- any paperwork related to things like that, did you guys inventory anything? Yeah. Be turned it MR. MS. cause we over to Everything related to him. brought it down to SIS. We OIG. Okay. So, the -- And we inventoried it. EFTA00125787

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 132 10 11 12 13 14 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a: -- inventory was done by you, not the FBI? MS. No. It was done by me. They signed off on it, well, as I was handing it to them. I had everything on an inventory list, of course. So, they were double checking what I was giving them, and they signed off on the chain of custody. MR. : And that morning, the round sheets, where did you find the round sheets? : So, someone gave me the round : So, it was not -? It wasn’t a: Okay. And Epstein paper. You said you took anything Epstein related, right? In paperwork. MS. QJ: 9 Right. m7 MR. : And, like, what kind of paperwork did you take? MS. a: Oof. I think I got, like, one or two 292s. I may have. Whatever it was, MR. a: Do you recall taking this EFTA00125788

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 133 1 orange sign, mandatory -? It says mandatory 2 rounds must be conducted every 30 minutes on Ww i) SS mn r o } 5 4 MS. ae: Not, I’ve never even seen w ct os wu ct n P- Q o 6 MR. a: So, you’ve never seen that? 8 MR. a: Okay. And do you recall any wo signs being up in the SHU, regarding Epstein? 10 MS. ae: No. I don’t recall. 11 MR. a: Him needing a cellmate, and 2 your rounds being -. So, you don’t recall this ive) in there, either? 4 MS. a: No. I’ve never seen that sign. w t oO a Do you know who collected fee) H 2 Oo eal Q Oo =] ct wo a n fe) B tb he fe) c I 22 the one that -? 23 MS. QJ: 9 ve did, but -- 24 MR. a : And was he the one -- 25 MS. a: -- that was never -- EFTA00125789

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 134 1 MR. Ee : -- that provided -? He 2 provided you with some of this stuff, though, 3 like, the 292s that you’re talking about? ) a Ih ur 4 MS. ae: Yes. He gave me the 292s And what is that? I fs) w a 7 MS. a: The feeding. 8 MR. a : -- and the showers? showers. Yes. 11 MR. a: But you don’t recall this? 2 MS a: I’ve never seen that. wo 77) 4 7 oO 3 4 the 15 the inmates? Like, if they are suicidal watch, 16 and things like that, is there any special oo U It should have been a hot 9 list What we call a hot list, that psy 20 would have put up there. Do u recall if 21 there was one in the SHU, at that point? 22 MS. a: I don’t know. 23 MR. | : Okay. 24 MS. a : I don't know. 25 MR. a: And if there was one, where EFTA00125790

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LIMITED ive) oO wo ive) fea] oo 19 OFFICIAL USE would it have been kept? MS. ae: I would think Okay. And t was in the oO And the CPAP machine was in tI MR. a: Did you assis name? o what about his cell - who i] which had. I think some pill bottles. EFTA00125791

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LIMITED ive) oO wo ive) fea] oo wo MS. a : Mm-hmm. MR. QJ: §9=So, did you assist her when a: rou you saw it? Like, what did walked in? cell. It was just more, linen sheets, linen ive amount of linens and sheets? MR. Ee : Did you inventory that? MS. QJ: No. I didn't. MR. a : Do you know many linens What was your impression wher OFFICIAL USE 136 EFTA00125792

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LIMITED ies) w fos) ite) ive) oo OFFICIAL USE 137 MS. MR. Hh though, MS. ae: For Special Housing. -- right. So, there were definite been in the MS. a : I would sg MR. a : Do you know why that would be the case? MR. All tho medicatio MS. ae: I don’t remember if they wer or if medication was in them. I know we 0) Can you start going think -- MS. 7 MR. QJ: 9 -- let me show you pictures. ma | MS. Sorry about that. MR. cause we have pictures fro EFTA00125793

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 138 1 — MR. Who took the pictu 3 Do you know? o a i] =) wu rt 7) So, what I'm showing 0 a inside the ial) tan 1) 3 1 A ictures ° ct 5 o ue] F OQ ct Okay. 12 MS. 13 MR. 3 uel is ct ct ® \ t fos] i MR. That’s it. When No K D rl you guys, SIS did? 22 MS. EJ: yes EFTA00125794

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 Ww ite) 2 MR. a : No, no, no. So, is this from the outside ies) Fs) 4 of his cell, the second picture? wi is wo up? Is PAP machine? Yes. | | 8 MR. QJ: 9 So, what is this wire coming that the | 7 Okay. And 2 removed it from the cell? ive) MS. Yeah. We took the CPAP 4 machine. w MR. Okay. And the CPAP machine 16 only extends to right there? 7 MS. a: I can't remember where it was 8 located at. I just know she went, you know, wo took it 22 machine and that cord specifically - was there 23 any indication that he may have used that to 24 strangle, to attempt to harm himself, or 25 someone else attempt to harm him? EFTA00125795

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 140 1 MS. QJ: No. Just the, like, the - ust the CPAP machine with the cord. KN wu. o is) 7 MS. a: I can't remember. MR. a : Okay. But there was fos) a 9 nothing - 10 MS. QJ: =o can't. 1 MR. -- that indicated that he was strangled by anything other than the noose nN ive) that they found in there? 5 MR. Nothing indicated that fea] the CPAP machine or cord was used? 7 MS. a: No. Hmm-mm. No. Okay. Lee) 5 9 MR. QJ: what happened to the CPAP 20 machine? 21 MS. shop. In the 22 inventory. 23 MR. QJ: 90h, it’s still there? 24 MS. a : It should be still there. 25 I’ve been gone for a while. EFTA00125796

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 141 i) n Okay. But that was taken Ww n K o n 5 we've seen a lot of the orange What is that? 6 Is that sheets oo os wo Is that where Epstein slept? ive) i Okay. Okay. So, this might Lee) 5 So, they were -- 20 MR. ae : -- were all the lines and 23 MS. ae: I don’t know. I don't know. 24 MR. a : You don’t know. Okay. Ture - sorry, I EFTA00125797

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 142 ~] wo 10 11 had to flip it a couple of times - it looks like it’s from the corner -- MR. a : -- looking into the cell. What are these things that’s tied up on? MS. a: This, and like these? MR. a: Yeah. I 7] that just to hang MS. a: They’re clothes lines. They use them normally. Mm-hmm. MR. a: Well, what about this? MS. a: I don't know. MR. a: So, there’s a ladder here that goes up to the second floor. MR. a: Okay. And it looks like there’s a whole bunch of items on top. And between the materials that’s on the floor, and the materials on the bed, you said there was an excessive amount of linen and -- MS. a: Linen. MR. a: -- linen. Okay. MR. a : Who would be responsible for providing a linen, or removing a linen? MS. QJ: 9vhat would be the SHU EFTA00125798

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LIMITED ies) w fos) ite) ive) oo OFFICIAL USE 143 offic i] r is] MR. SHU? And was that at all so much questioned, like, hey, why w linen in there? a: I don’t. I didn't n't -. I don’t know And if the cell being conducted, would that be the time that they » actually take -- MR. MS. MR. MR. Is that the MS. And what is this right here? MS. a : I don't want to you know, that’s what it looks like word EFTA00125799

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LIMITED ies) w fos) ive) oo OFFICIAL USE 144 Okay. And where exactly on it, is this on the floor? Is that on the corner? MS. you know if this w ul actually -- a: I don't know. MR. ae : Do you know if there were multiple noo MS. a: I don't know. seeing. No. I don’t recall. No. happened to the noose? MR. a : Okay. to this da saw it there? ms. QJ: =e’ 07] I don’t know from the angle. I don't know. EFTA00125800

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 145 ies) w ~] wo i=) 11 ive) out of work for some time. MR. FY : Okay. MR. a : What is your understanding of how the noose -? How they got Epstein down? Do you know if it was ripped, or if it was cut? Or do you know anything about that? MS. a: I don't know. Nobody never said. MR. a : Okay. So, you never looked at it. MR. ae : Because no one said it to you? MR. QJ: 9 okay. MR. a : But not when you were collecting this evidence, though, wasn’t clearly, you know? Do you know if anything was still hanging from where he was hung from, or do you know if it was taken off of him after MS. a: I don't know. MR. a : You don’t know. And who would be the person to talk to about that? MS. a: The responders. EFTA00125801

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LIMITED ies) fos) oo OFFICIAL USE MR. responders? MS. MR. Thomas? This MS. MR. is ue] o en the K condi ral i ke wu Bh fi w QO 7 i?) rr a oO T Noel and like, ah. The responders would 0) tion of the cell. + a Pp bh it) ie ie) bp ie] t a KR oO H ct he bottom of that. this right here? another mattress? look like it. two mattresses is on EFTA00125802

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 147 w ~] MS. a: Again -- MR. a: -- bottom one here. Okay. MS. a: -- I don’t know who took the pictures. I know she took a set of pictures, and then when the FBI came in, they were searching the cell, and they took a set of pictures. So, I really don’t know whose pictures those are. MR. a: Is that two mattresses, or just one mattress? MS. a: It looks like one. MR. a: One. Okay. But so, I thought this picture taken, another mattress was put on top? MS. a: Right. This look like two. Of course, well, it is two. So, I don't know. MR. QJ: 9 And look at this pill bottles. There’s different medications sitting on the top bunk? MS. QJ: 9 Yeah. MR. a : Are those things allowed in MS. a: The inmates, I think, are allowed to have their medications. MR. a: It’s not something where the EFTA00125803

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LIMITED ies) fos) wo ive) oo OFFICIAL USE line daily. I don’t know t K @ wu 7 Fs) Ss ue} R oO p. Q 0) o | | = wo ri ie] w n o -- ¢ 3) it) t | | BS GO i rr i) or un - . ie) 3 @ o wen t D i 3 a] ish bp QO wu a fs) = wu Bh rh 5 ce 5 Q ct a wu ct Something you guys oO ram wu te rs] o is) oO | | 7 normally do, you know if this i do a pill ome medication can be H o tr] i) i) 5 | | hrough needs to be provided 7) EFTA00125804

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LIMITED ies) fos) oo OFFICIAL USE 149 MS. a: Let me see. MR. a : -- one that we looked in the other picture, though? MS. Not that. I don't know. It looks like that. There’s £ the Oo Yeah. All right. And we’ve got a picture of bed. With all the linen on it. MR. a: Did you -. MR. a : You didn't take pictures, though. Correct? MR. a : Did you even go into the cell, at the time, to see all of this? MS. a: No. They -. When the other was there, and we were out. Yn the », but || is the one who took these pictures? MS. a: I don’t know if these are her EFTA00125805

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 150 1 set of pictures because the FBI took pictures, 2 as well. So, I don't know -- WwW i Oo roe i he 4 MS. ae: -- if you have hers or w ct i) oO bh KK un 6 MR. a : I gotcha. 7 MR. a: Before the FBI got in, was 8 anything moved in the cell? 11 the kind of overall picture, and this is where 2 it kind of, you know, looks like there’s 3 definitely an excessive amount of linens. 4 Correct? 15 MS. a: On these pictures, yes 16 MR. a : And is that a security issue, if there is an excessit 9 MR. a : -- amount of linen? And 20 what is that reason that that would be a 21 security issue 22 MS. a: Excessive. The inmates been 23 known, you know, and to start fires. Suicide 24 inmates, that’s excessive for them. 25 Definitely. EFTA00125806

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 151 1 MR. a: So, inmates that came off of 2 suicide watch, or is, like, an observation, 3 they shouldn’t have -? 4 MS. ae: No. They shouldn't have that 5 much linen. 6 MR. a: Okay. You would - I know 7 you’ve been speaking - but you don’t know where 8 exactly he hung himself, or where the body was 9 found, or anything like that? 10 MS. ae: No. I don't know. 11 MR. a : Do you know if - for 2 instance, this, this looks like potentially 3 where he hung himself from - do you know if 4 this was placed back up there, or if that 5 remained there, undisturbed? I don't know. 7 MR. QJ: | You don't know. Okay. t oO 77) Les] Dp fe) = 7 © K © } fo 3 fe) = 9 MS. a : I'm assuming she’s here. 23 24 25 Yeah EFTA00125807

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LIMITED ive) w wo ive) fea] oo its) OFFICIAL USE 152 MR. photos. ay. Thank MS. | : Mm-hmm. No problem. MR. a : Did she have a vement with im ou. het came after -- And did photographs, or do the photo -. EFTA00125808

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LIMITED ies) w fos) wo ive) oo OFFICIAL Tape up. phot USE 153 the door up. We went up to tape the door I don’t remember at what point she took ographs of the cell. MR. Ee : But it wasn’t that MS. QJ: =No. I don’t think she went e it was blocked off. So, de -. Becau 7) dy went inside that day. We Just the FBI? Yes Was there video taken, or I don't know. We didn't take It sounds EFTA00125809

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LIMITED OFFICIAL US 154 1 like the FBI is the people to talk about, with 2 the - as far as who went in there first, to -- 3 MS. a : Yeah. They went in -- 4 MR. Ee : -- to take pictures. 5 MS. a: -- we just escorted them up. 6 I escorted them up there, and -. 7 MR. Do you know if anything - 8 after they removed Epstein’s body from the cell 9 - do you know if they, anybody went back into 10 that cell? 11 MS. a: I don't know. 2 MR. ae : You don't know? 3 MS. a: I don’t know. 4 MR. a : Prior to the FBI going 15 in? 7 MR. FY When Epstein was brought up 8 to the hospital, do you know what he was 9 wearing? Do you know if there was an inventory 20 stuff on the -? You know, the clothes that was 21 on him. What happened to the stuff that was 22 inventoried? 23 MS. ae: I don't know. 24 MR. a : Was anything brought back? 25 MS. a: No. Nothing was brought EFTA00125810

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LIMITED ~] wo 10 11 OFFICIAL USE 155 back. But the disk with the pictures they took out there. MR. a: Do you know, did you hear of when R&D, was any R&D officers sent to the mM hospital? MS. a: I don't know if the officers was there. The supervisor, Mr. | went out to the hospital. MR. And when they go out ona situation like this, do they go to the hospital with anything with them? Like cameras. Yeah. You took the pictures. And he - I think he did the fingerprints. c MR. So, he did take pictures? MS. Yes. MR. It’s on a camera provided by MCC? Yes. And he took fingerprints = dp) I think he did fingerprints a) Did he also take a video, or just camera pictures? ou : Just pictures. EFTA00125811

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 156 1 MR. Ee : Do you know where those 2 pictures are? 3 MS. a : On my home drive. 4 MR. Ee : Okay. Is that another 5 thing that we can ask you to send to us, as 6 well -- 7 MS. a: Okay. 8 MR. a : -- to make it a little 9 less, and then we’ll send in an email out. 10 MR. QJ: 9 Yeah. 11 a: Mm-hmm. 2 MR. a: Is there a reason -? 3 MS. QJ: «9 (indiscernible *01:49:37). 4 Oh, it’s (Indiscernible *01 39). I was -. 15 Because I had a binder, too. Iwas -. I'm 16 just trying to brainstorm, see if I could get 7 it to you guys while you’re here. That’s what 8 - 9 MR. a : Is there a reason why | 20 - sorry - that JJ went to the hospital, 21 took pictures on his personal phone, and texted 22 that over to the AW? 23 MS. ae: I didn't even know he went to 24 the hospital. This is the first I'm hearing he 25 went to the hospital. EFTA00125812

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 15 ~] oO 10 11 J MR. a: He said he was under the impression that the R&D did come in with the camera, but they left without taking any pictures, and they took the camera with them. MS. a: I don't know why he was under the impression because he brought the camera back, and I downloaded the pictures off of it. MR. a: Is there any policy about just anyone, you know, C.0O.s, any BOP employees taking pictures on their personal phone, for suicide, or anyone like that? MS. a: You shouldn’t be taking any. MR. a: Are you familiar -- MS. a: Any pictures. MR. a: -- if there’s any policy like MS. a: I don’t know if it’s a policy. I don’t know. MR. a: But as far as you know, you never got those pictures? Ms. QJ: From vr. QP MR. a: Yeah. MS. EJ: No. MR. a: Okay. Do you have any questions in regards to that topic? EFTA00125813

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 158 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 MR. Ee : Nope. MR. a: Have you heard - did you hear anything about doors in the SHU being left unlocked? MR. a: Was there ever any issues about C.0O.s possibly leaving the SHU doors unlocked, the tiers doors unlocked, so it’s easier to walk in and out? MS. a : I don’t know. MR. a: Okay. What about cell doors? Did you ever hear any rumors about possibly that cell doors in Epstein’s tier was left unlocked? MS. a: No. I never heard it. MR. a : What is your understanding of how Epstein -? Of what happened with Epstein? MS. a: My understanding was, they found him, I guess sitting on the floor, with a rope around his neck. And I don’t know who went in the cell first. But I did hear was Mr. Thomas, Ms. Noel. I heard Lieutenant a. and I don’t remember who it was from medical. MR. a : As far as when he was EFTA00125814

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LIMITED ~] oO 10 11 OFFICIAL USE 15 found, though, was it your understanding that he did whatever happened to him, to himself? MS. a: That’s what my understanding was. MR. a : Do you have any information at all that would suggest that Epstein did not harm himself, and that someone else harmed him? MR. SJ: No. MR. a: Did he have any threats from other inmates? MS. a: I don’t know. MR. a: Okay. Anything else? MR. QR: Nope. MR. a: Did you ever interact with Epstein while he was at the -? MS. a: When I did the first suicide attempt, allegedly. MR. QJ: After that. Have there been MS. a: No interaction. I just seen him in attorney area because he did his attorney visits pretty much all da So, if I K would walk by and see him, I will step in and to EFTA00125815

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ~] oO 10 11 ask him was he okay. Normally, he will j give the thumbs up, and you know, I will away. But if I see him, I definitely wil ust walk You know, you okay, anything you need? And he will just throw the thumbs up. MR. a: Was he given any special privileges here at the MCC? MS. a: Not that I know of. MR. a: Being that -. What is understanding about him having attorney conference every day? Did you know that in attorney conference pretty much every from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m.? MS. BJ: 9 Yes. MR. a: Was that something that afforded to other inmates? your was MS. a: I’ve seen it done before. MR. QJ: So, it’s happened in the past? Ms. J: 9 vm-hon. t him? MR. a : Okay. Do you know which EFTA00125816

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 161 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 other inmates? MR. a : No. We don’t need to -. MR. QJ: 9 okay. MS. a: I don't know. MR. a : I got nothing else on the -. MR. a : So, these are - when we were talking about count slips previously - this is what I was talking about. So, do you see, all these other counts, this was the 10:00 p-m. count on August 3th. All these other count slips have crosses all over them. They’ re checking, you know, say, from our understanding, it says as one, different things come in, they check them off. ms. J: 9 vm-hon. MR. a : Well, these two that one is from R&D, and one is from the SHU, one) they don’t have the check marks coming off of; and two) they ZA one, which is the SHU, says 73+1. And the R&D says 9S+1. Do you know anything about that? MS. a: No. I don't know what the plus one stands for. MR. a : No. Do you know anything about, like, ghost counting, or anything of EFTA00125817

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LIMITED ies) w fos) wo ive) oo OFFICIAL USE 162 tha rt 5 fw rt Gc KR it] MS. ae: I’ve heard them ghost count before. If an inmate was in medical during a MR. QJ: Would they put, like -- I’ve 7 And when you said that handling count slips, or collecting them, did you remember ing like that, with the 9S+1l, or the -? MS. a : I don’t remember. MR. a : You don’t remember? iS. i: you, that those things are on there? MS. a: Yes. I would have sent this EFTA00125818

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 ies) w ~] wo i=) 11 ive) count slip back because plus one -- MR. QM: sor it -- MS. a : -- doesn't tell me -. MR. Ee : -- it may have been the people that were doing the count, that wrote it, is actually where the thought is. MS. a: Oh, I don't know. MR. a : But you don’t know. MS. a : I’ve never seen a plus one. MR. a: In terms of, if there is possibly a suicide, is there, during training, are C.O.s taught what actions to take if they think that there’s a possible suicide attempt in a cell? MS. EJ: yes. MR. a: What is the training? MS. a : We get suicide prevention training yearly, during annual refresher training, the psychology conduct mock exercises MR. a: And what do they teach you? Like, if you see something. If you see possible suicide. What is the C.O. supposed to do? oy Ww EFTA00125819

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LIMITED w ~] oO 10 11 OFFICIAL USE 164 MS. a: First, you’re going to yell for help, or for a supervisor, but when you have another staff member with you, you could open the door and attempt to free that person, if - for instance - if it’s a noose or something to that effect. un. SE: other C.0O.s to respond? you have somebody with you. MR. QR: have somebody with you. required? They don’t have to wait for Well, it is recommended that Okay. It is recommended that you Recommended, not I don’t think it’s required. MR. a : Is there part of the security part where it could be a rouse to get you in, and then they could overthrow you? MR. QM: so, is that why -? So, our understanding was that it was actually a Absolutely. Absolutely. requirement that you’re not supposed to go in - By yourself. EFTA00125820

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 w ~] fs) w MR. Ee : -- by yourself. MS. a: Just in case there is a fake attempt or something to get in you. MR. a: Anything else? MR. QM: | Nope. MR. a: I got nothing else in my line of questioning. MR. a : Great. Yeah, no. So, there is no, nothing for you to believe that Epstein did anything other than take his own MR. a : Okay. And then, that these other things were just systematic failures. What do you think overall led to Epstein being able to take his own life? MS. a: I want to say the systematic failures, the breakdown with, you know, although we don’t know the previous attempt, we don’t know the logistics, right? So, if we know we had this inmate, we should have been watching him a little bit better, I think. MR. a : So, do you think the main reasons would be, if counts and rounds weren’t being conducted, would that be a big factor EFTA00125821

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 166 1 into o kill himself? I would say so, because ies) if you know nobody is walking around. 4 MR. Ee : What about the fact that didn't have a cellmate, and he was w Za oO or) ed or] uppo 6 to have a cellmate? fos) i t is) Oo c ct 7 p- =] fom ie) 5 0) O Fh rt 7 oO 3 oO } it) 8 oO 5 o important than the other? Or do they 10 go hand in hand? I think they go hand in hand. nN MR. Okay. they’ re both Wa a] 17) equally -- 5 MR. a : -- as important. Is 16 there anything else, aside from those two main 7 issues, that you think led to Epstein’s death? oo 77) I really can't say. I don't 20 MR. ae : Okay. Anything that we 21 didn't ask you, that we should know about? 22 MS. a: No. You guys pretty much -- Yeah. 24 MS. a : -- much asked -- 25 MR. Ee : No. I know we -- No ox) 5 EFTA00125822

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LIMITED ies) w fos) ive) oo OFFICIAL USE that, = 7) all these recording. If we discus -- everything. - we vered a lot. Can we just have -- No problem. initial? . \ | a o KK the thing u cE it) cr | if] oO cr > w a 0 know we talked, that have to get attached to the initial. For ald 31 this pack. Just initial the top thing -- a : -- so you don’t have to go through none of those. But the things that if you don’t mind just -- ae: No problem. Ee : -- initialing and dating. EFTA00125823

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 3 MR a : Oh. There goes that I just 4 had the other pen. O} sir 6 MR a: I apologize 7 MS. EJ: 9 okay 8 MR. a: And it goes government pens. 9 MR. a : Anything else? 11 MS. 12 MR 13 MR 17 things The 18 MR. a : I'm just looking for -- 19 MR. a : You have the most -- 20 MR a: -- oh, that’s 22 I think 24 was, li 25 pla handwriting I’ve ever seen. It’s calligraphy. ae: Oh, really? I thought it ke, chicken scratch and all over the EFTA00125824

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LIMITED OFFICIAL US 1 1 MR. Ee : No. And once I saw it, I 2 was, like, wow. That is pretty impressive. oO) wo 4 MR. Ee : Okay. You want to end w oO MR. a: Yeah. So, we’re going to end the interview. The time is 11:19 a.m. on fos) September 23rd, 2021. This is Special Agent ae I'm ending the interview. oO i=) EFTA00125825

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 170 1 CERTIFICATE oO w Burton, Transcriber ot) oO co EFTA00125826