10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL AUGUST 12, 2019 FENTON TRANSCRIPTION 28720 Roadside Drive, Suite 250 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 991-8002 EFTA00125466

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LIMITED w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL WITNESS: OTHER APPEARANCES: EFTA00125467

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LIMITED OFFICIAL U furtherance of OIG inv will now Ward scription, ide interview ir las title the Inspector General. nt Antonio i. - MR. ae : Um-hum. signed which is Req Department of Warr 0) EFTA00125468

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 4 1 Basis. Do you have any questions about this ies) a No. Would you like time to wi iad oO it with an attorney, or would you like For now, I don’t need an Les] a] rt ct ie) ai =] o oO AJ Are you currently i=) ubstanc it) i3) rh w under the influenc 1 there any reason to prevent you from fully 2 understanding my questions and answering ive) truthfully today? f foal n rt wu rt oO 3 oO 5 rt " is) c ial oO 7] o ie) i= rt t oO co a) No Fs) 4 a fu ct ct a @ n ct i et o 3 o =] ct if) ct as wu rt 25 I’m about to make. EFTA00125469

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LIMITED 1 Lb OFFICIAL U MR. a : Um-hum. MR. a : Warden would you mind telling us a little bit about your career with pecame a up th oO MR. a : Great. How long have you EFTA00125470

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE fen) 1 been the Warden? Ww ie) o = oo 5 role, you’ve done a lot of internal 6 investigations with the prison and you’ve worked with the Department of Justice for -- 8 MR. a : Um-hum. -- moving forward, wo F 10 a note for the record, you’re aware that 11 failure to be honest with us today would be 2 considered a criminal offense; correct? Yes. 4 MR. a : Okay, great. Let’s talka ive) u 5 little bit about some overall policies at the 16 prison to start with. So, actually let me back Lee) 5 9 up. We’re here today to talk about, 20 specifically Jeffrey Epstein. 21 MR. QJ: 0 om-hun. 22 MR. a : The inmate. 23 MR. a : Um-hum. 4 MR. a : Would you mind just telling us a little bit about when, your ho No w EFTA00125471

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 understanding of when he arrived and that type of, when he arrived, how he was placed, where he was placed, and the reasons behind that? MR. a : I don’t remember the specific date he arrived, but we didn’t, what happened was, we weren’t told that he was going to be coming to the institution. MR. a : Okay. MR. a : When he initially came, he was dropped off on the weekend, and we didn’t find out until Monday, myself, that he had been placed at the institution. And from then on, we, you know, went through the whole process of the screening, his medical stuff. Just normal procedures that we follow and (Indiscernible *00:04:04). MR. a : Okay. Now when you say “he was dropped off over the weekend”, when somebody arrives at the facility, what’s the normal -- MR. a : I mean typically if somebody’s that high profile -- MR. a : Um-hum. MR. a : -- we should’ve been notified and said hey, he’s coming in. We EFTA00125472

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 weren’t. MR. a : Okay. MR. a : You know, I mean, we saw it on the news, but it didn’t say. They just said they had him in custody, but we didn’t get any formal, I didn’t get any formal notice that he had been brought into the institution. So, he was dropped off, and you know, the Lieutenant on shift processed him in and brought him into the institution. We didn’t find out or realize it until Monday. MR. a: So, it was Monday that you first were officially made aware of it? MR. QJ: «That I was made aware. You know, we found out, and I don’t remember if it was from looking at the news reports, we put it together that he had been brought into the institution. We went through our Monday morning meeting that we went through. So, that’s when -- MR. a : When he first arrived, was he placed in general population? Do you know where he was placed? MR. a : I don’t recall where he was placed when he came in. EFTA00125473

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2 placed in Special Housing Unit? wo he] t 7] 2) me point, he was res. ies) i ae: 6 MR. a : how did he end up there? 7 MR. a : Well, he was a new w a 8 commitment. He was high profile. So, we 9 placed him in the Special Housing Unit so we 10 can further evaluate, you know, his status. Is 11 he ready for general population? And we do 2 but -- 3 4 and then to see, okay, 5 Any threats to him, 16 before we put him out there in general 7 population. 8 MR. a : Was he ever in general 9 population? 20 MR. : I don’t recall. I don’t, 21 I’m not sure if it might’ve been the first day 22 when he came in. 24 MR. a : But I’m not sure, so I mean, 25 would have to look at the 37 to confirm. EFTA00125474

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 w ~] ive) MR. a : But as far as you know, that Monday, the first business day after the weekend he was initially dropped off. MR. QJ: | Right. MR. a : From that point forward, was he ever in general population? MR. GJ: «No. MR. a : Okay. What are the policies in terms of, or is there policy that dictates when somebody goes into general population from the SHU after the first arrival? MR. a : Well, what we do is we evaluate the individual to see if they’re ready for general population, if they can hang, you know -- MR. a : Um-hum. MR. a : -- if they can populate. MR. a: Okay. MR. QJ: And it’s a number of factors. It depends. I mean, if I have a gang member coming in, I’m taking into consideration separation issues on it. If it’s, you know, somebody that might’ve been fraud or bank fraud, then we determine if it’s any issues of EFTA00125475

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 11 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 them going into the general population. So, it’s a case-by-case basis on how we determine it. MR. a: Okay. What are the policies in terms of when you’re notified if someone enters Special Housing Unit or is discharged from Special Housing Unit? MR. QJ: §9 Well what it is is, it’s routed the individual, it’s called a Release Form. So, several people sign it. They review it. I believe psychology, CMC, the Captain, and it goes to the Associate Warden and then they sign what we call is a Kick-Out. Meaning everybody’s reviewed it and said, okay, this person is appropriate for general population. MR. a: Okay. For Mr. Epstein, after that, he was never put in general population; correct? MR. GJ: No. MR. a: Was the determination to keep him in Special Housing? What was the communication that goes on there? MR. a : Well we, now initially when he came in, it’s the goal to determine, okay, can they go to general population. EFTA00125476

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE 12 y- fu MR. a : So, between evaluating him, ime, we’re looking at saying, wu rt ct a 0) n fu 3 @ ct H okay, can he go to general population. it’s a dual role that MR. QJ: «But 1 had don’t recall tten word, and I where from my Regional Director which stated he’s go to general 5 18) rt t 12] Q population until further notice. MR. a : The Regional Director, where is that in the chain of command for BOP? Director. MR. MR. ae : This is the Northeast Okay. MR. a : Where we have 21 EFTA00125477

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 13 charge of the 21 institutions. ite} So, is he -- MR. do you recall if it was verbally or an email? too, but I k if there was an email to go with it. But we did talk and said, hey, you officially were, you and Mr. i. spoke about this? MR. ae : I don’t want to give you the wrong date. But it was within that, you know, maybe a couple weeks after he arrived. So, it was a few EFTA00125478

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LIMITED ies) w co io ive) co OFFICIAL USE 14 After Mr. | told you to keep him, or it was agreed upon -- MR. a : Um-hum. MR. QM: -- to keep him in Special Housing Unit. MR. QM: Who did y using Unit? notify tay in the Special communication -- MR. a : Um-hum. MR. a : -- which is MR. a: And that’s basically how we EFTA00125479

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 15 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 MR. a : Were there any other specific directions or instructions given to the staff regarding him? MR. a : Well, so at the time of him staying in there, we had to find him initially a roommate. MR. Es : Okay. MR. a : So, and it’s hard especially in Special Housing Unit when you’ve got gang members in there that are not appropriate to be housed with. So, we came up with, I came up with a. who was in there. White male, probably be able to cope with him. And that’s typically how we, you know, that’s part of the evaluation process. MR. a : Is it standard for inmates in Special Housing Unit to have cellmates? MR. a : We typically would like for them to have it. MR. QJ: sure. MR. a : But certain situations dictate that they can. If an inmate’s a total separation from a group, and we get word from S Attorney’s office or the arresting agents that, hey, he’s to be totally separated, then EFTA00125480

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 on 1 they would be housed by themselves. They could 2 have an incident in the institution, you know, 3 for example our gang members, somebody has an 4 issue, and for example, the Bloods, then we 5 have to say hey, let’s separate him from there. Oo) ta Oo c ~ a] Oo = 7 MR. a : Was there any directions specifically that Mr. Epstein was to have a co cellmate at all times? wo 2 MR. a : -- said hey, that he’s 3 required, he needs to have a cellmate at all 4 times. 15 MR. a : Okay. And that occurred 16 later on? When he first arrived, there was no specific directions regarding that; correct? 8 MR. a : No, it wasn’t. 21 MR. a : Sure. 22 MR. a : You mean when he first came 23 in were we talking about him having a cellmate? 24 MR. a : Initially. 25 MR. a : I don’t recall any talks EFTA00125481

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LIMITED ies) w fos) Ww oo OFFICIAL USE about him. MR. a : Initially, and trying to figure out when housed. I don’ do you normally, or handle these ty other special c does this work? he first came in, how he was t recall how he was housed when pe of high profile inmates? Any onsiderati MR. a : Again, you come in. We you know, we've were able to go determine, okay, if they can go population or not. We’ve had, had a out. the phone t (Indiscernible *00:12:41). MR. a : Him. So, when he first came EFTA00125482

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 18 high profil 1) brought him in to determine -- FEMALE VOICE: Excuse me. iew with Wa EFTA00125483

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 19 wi ~] 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 just going over some of the overall high- profile inmates and the general -- MR. a : Um-hum. MR. a: -- evaluation of them. Going back to, you said earlier that a few weeks had occurred. You and the Regional Director discussed keeping Epstein in the Special Housing Unit. MR. a : Um-hum. MR. a : How often was the Regional Director being briefed on Epstein? MR. a : I guess the situation dictated it. If something happened, then we’d notify him, or he needed some questions for him, he would call me. But I don’t want to, I don’t recall the specific amount of times. But we were in contact. MS. a : Um-hum. MR. a : Frequent contact. MR. QM: Okay. How often were you, are you notified differently of high-profile inmates or how often were you being aware or notified of Epstein’s housing situation? MR. a : Well, I mean, he was in the Special Housing Unit. So, I knew where he was. EFTA00125484

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 20 w ~] ive) MR. a : So, it wasn’t like I had to be updated as to where he was. I knew where he was. MR. BJ: «ot on on his attorney visits, spent the whole day oO x wu Mg oO an, I knew that he went there. Would be the first one in, last one out. So, I mean, that’s what I knew. And then I kind of (Indiscernible *00:02:06) with the attorneys. I had some outside attorneys complain about, you know, they were taking up the attorney room. So, I knew that was, you know, those issues were coming up with the attorney room. MR. a : Okay. Going back to general policies at the -- MR. a : Um-hum. MR. QJ: -- within the Bop, actually when Epstein arrive -- MR. QJ: 9 om-hun. MR. a : -- I think we already covered this, but just to, were any special arrangements or considerations given to him? MR. QJ: «As far a i] EFTA00125485

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 21 1 MR. a : Obviously you said earlier 2 he was put in the SHU on Monday. Ww 5 vs } Q ey rt 4 MR. a : After, was it, at that 5 point, was there any issues that you’re aware 6 of regarding him? Anything that you needed to 7 be aware of other than just who he was? 8 MR. a : No. Just who he was and the 9 basic screening. The intake screening. 10 MR. a : Okay. At the time he 11 first arrived, did you have any, was there any 2 notification of any mental health concerns? 3 MR. a : No, not that I know of. 4 MR. a : Okay. How -- MR w Are you talking about the 16 weekend he came in, or -- 7 MR. a : Yeah. 8 MR. QJ: «9 (indiscernible *00:03:19). 9 MR. ae : First arrival. 20 MR. QJ: that weekend, I don't know. 21 But I know afterwards, he was medically 22 assessed and they were, you know, our health 23 service department assessed him and he, I think 24 he might have told him that he had certain 25 medications. EFTA00125486

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 22 w ~] MR. QM: Okay. When -- MR. a : -- that he was taking. MR. a : When inmates come into the mMcc, are they all screened for mental health issues or medical issues? MR. a : Well, yes. They come in, you’re screened for your medical. The unit team screens you and psychology screens you. But -- MR. a : What timeframe does that occur? MR. QJ: §9 typically like with him, he came in on the weekend. So, it depends if there was a psychologist. Maybe the next day someone would go screen him, the on-call psychologist. But, you know, or Monday if someone came in. But typically the on-call psychologist is there through the weekend and will screen them. MR. QM: Who is notified of the results of those screenings? MR. EJ: 39 of? MR. a : Of the medical screen and psychological screenings, who gets notified of that? EFTA00125487

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 23 1 MR. a : As far as what? If they 2 find something in there? 3 wR. QM: ves. 4 MR. a : Like what would be an 5 example? I mean -- 6 MR. a : Any medical concerns that 7 people need to be aware of. Any psychological 8 issues. How does that information get 9 disseminated? 10 MR. a : Because when we talk about 11 medical issues, some of that falls under 2 privacy issues 3 MR. FY : Um-hum. 4 MR. a : So, you know, it’s not going 15 to be divulged as to -- 16 MR. QJ: Okay. 7 MR. a : -- just like that. 8 MR. a : Sure. 9 MR. a : But as far as psychological, 20 if it was something that psychologists did an 21 interview and said, hey, there’s a mental 22 health issue or something, then she would, you 23 know, she would let her Associate Warden know. 24 She would let me know that, hey, there’s some 25 issues. EFTA00125488

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 24 w ~] ive) MR. a : Okay. And when he first arrived, were you made aware of any medical or mental issues regarding him? MR. QJ: Mental health, I don’t recall any mental health. But I was told that he was on certain medications or whatever. But it was general. It wasn’t -- MR. a : Okay. MR. a : -- anything major. MR. a : Okay. And just, and that’s a general policy for all inmates that arrive? MR. a : The screening, yeah. MR. a : Just the medical screening. They all get that? MR. QJ: 9 Right. MR. I: «x of those screenings, is there any, does it have there any, as a result n any bearing on where they’re placed, whether it’s special housing or general population? MR. a : I mean typically if you do, like I said, if you do an intake screening and the individual comes in and they have no issues, no separation issues, and, you know, then they can populate like anyone else. But EFTA00125489

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 25 w ~] wo 10 11 if there are issues with them going out in general population; i.e., safety issues, then you would be placed in the Special Housing. MR. QJ: Okay. MR. a : Until we could further evaluate if you could go to general population. MR. Es : If someone during the mental health screening, the mental health, the psychologist deemed them to be suicidal -- MR. QJ: Okay. MR. a: -- what are the suicidal watch policies as it relates to that? MR. a : So, if the psychologist was to say, hey, they’re suicidal, then they would be placed on suicide watch. MR. QJ: Okay. MR. a : Now if the psychologist is not there and someone exhibits suicidal cr ) ideations or statements or thoughts, then if they’ re placed on suicide watch. MR. a : Can you explain to me what suicide watch is, where it is in the MCC -- MR. a : It’s on the second floor of the institution, on the same floor of the hospital. EFTA00125490

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE a i And it’s a cell, and if you Ww Q fe) 3 ifs] f bP a } Q 0 wu 4 fe O is wi Fa] 4 hours. ie) 7 MR. : Now the smock, is that 8 made of pap w ue] o KH C RK | | c c Bo H ct b w ie a 7 be O ct a you ev i) r se i) 0) 12 those movies where they have those heavy bomb 13 t t n r hg os | | mean, I it’s something t c a) ie) : es) | | | | bs RR 1) And it just No rt iy wy rt un oO 23 MR. 24 monitored for 24 hours. 25 MR. a : There’s a EFTA00125491

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 27 w ~] ive) there. An inmate. MR. a : In the cell? MR. a : No. Outside the cell. MR. QJ: Okay. MR. a : It’s a cell where you sit and observe. MR. Es : Okay. Is another inmate or a staff? MR. a : No, it’s a trained inmate companion. Now, we have four cells. If those rt he companion cells get full, then we have to move them up to the Special Housing Unit and then put a staff watch on them. MR. QM: Okay. in place for suicide watch as it relates to What policies are staff response, notification, how people get notified, if they’re moving from suicide watch to off suicide watch. How does that work? MR. a : That works through psychology. MR. QR: okay. MR. a : Psychology evaluates and they’1l say, okay, we’ve evaluated him and, you know, wherever we’re going, typically you always usually go from the Special Housing Unit EFTA00125492

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 28 w ~] wo 10 11 to suicide. So, they’d say, okay you know what, they’re ready to go back up. MR. a : Okay. What role, how does the program, is the psychologist the program coordinator? MR. a : The chief psychologist runs the department. MR. a : Okay. MR. a : And then she has various MR. a : And then evaluate because we have a different mission as far as we have a forensic mission. So, we get a lot of forensic studies in the institution. MR. QJ: Okay. MR. a : And then we have a regular psychologist also that handles the inmate population but they work together and they handle everything. MR. a : Okay. Who’s ultimately responsible for placing somebody on suicide watch or off suicide watch? MR. a : Well placing it, member comes and says hey, this guy fu n rt wu Mh Hh b- i] EFTA00125493

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 29 w ~] suicidal. You can place him on suicide watch. MR. a : Okay. Anybody in the institution can do that? MR. a : Yeah. If I come upon an inmate that’s saying, “Hey, I’m going to kill myself.” Okay, we get him on suicide watch. Psychology comes and, you know, evaluates them and then comes up with a plan. MR. a: Within the psychology department -- MR. a : Um-hum. MR. a: -- or the medical department there in mental health, who there ultimately makes that decision? MR. a : I believe, and don’t quote me on this. I believe the psychologists. MR. a : Okay. MR. a : You know, they’re trained professionals. So, they can make a decision and they consult with the Chief in, you know, determining okay what’s the plan of action to move forward. MR. a : And are you, when someone’s placed in suicide watch, are you notified of that? EFTA00125494

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 30 1 MR. a : Yeah. They send out a form 2 every day stating like who’s on suicide watch, 3 who’s on psyche observation. So -- 5 MR. a : -- we’re aware of who it is 6 and then they’1ll send out a form if there’s no 7 one on there. 8 MR. a : You said earlier that 9 while on suicide watch, there was an observer. 10 MR. QJ: 9 Right. 11 MR. a : How does an inmate become 2 an observer? MR. a : It’s an inmate companion. 4 MR. a : A companion, I’m sorry. 15 un. a: 16 So, they have to go through training. They ive) it’s a trained program. have to take courses, and then they become 8 eligible to become a companion. 9 MR. ae : Who authorizes the use of 20 an inmate companion? 21 MR. a : The psychology department 22 runs that So -- 23 MR. a : Do you have any input as 24 the Warden in selecting or training or 25 implementing the inmate companion program? EFTA00125495

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LIMITED ies) w co ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE MR. a : Does every institution have an inmate companion program? MR. a : Yes MS. QM: | who's the Chief chologist? if someone is on MR. a : Well in conjunction with our ay. MR. a: Because you could be, a psychologist is assigned to the individual when working a plan with them. And if they come to the determination that you know what, they no longer need to be on suicide MR. a : Okay. But as the clinical director, she’s ultimately responsible. MR. a : She’s not the clinical. the Chief Psycholo Ww Pp EFTA00125496

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE a: wo y- fu Clinical Director is a N Fs Ww n o ue] wu al wu rt oO ue] ie) n a c b 3) 5 I apologize for Ww tt i) nt] rt Co 5 H ar fw cr tn fine. Thank you for clarifying. oo Fs) (2) an w oO AJ ff, 10 just for my clarification, who in the medica ive) 3 4 determines to remov 16 department? 7 MR. a : Again, it depends on who’s 8 9 20 MR. : And so we have one, two, 22 00: : h re four 23 24 MR. a : You have four And any one of those EFTA00125497

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LIMITED ioe) w io ioe) its) OFFICIAL USE four can r MR. fe : Can remove MR. a : Do those four have, who’s 1) 3 oO 0) four st visor MR. QM: yeah. have to verrule them? And I’m not a what procedur o A -- or what conversation th have to determine if she’s going to overrule them. I mean, she’s the supervisor, and it’s just like with any, you know, prof you >y, I don’t agree Ww EFTA00125498

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 34 w ~] with your decision, then we debate it and then we ultimately come to a decision. MR. a : Okay. MR. a : As to yay or nay. MR. QR: Okay. MR. a : So, it’s kind of the same thing. MR. a : While on suicide watch, you said there’s a 24-hour companion. What does staff do for the inmates while they’re on suicide watch? MR. a : Well we have a camera, well they’re trained to, there’s a phone there. So, let’s say something happened where an inmate’s trying to do harm to himself. They pick up the phone and they call for assistance, because it goes directly to control center, and we respond accordingly to it. But we also in our control center, while the individual is on suicide watch, there’s a camera there. MR. QJ: Okay. MR. a : To view -- MR. a : What specific training does staff get as it relates to the suicide EFTA00125499

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) co No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE Ww wi watch? MR. a : Once a year during our annual training, we have suicide prevention training. MR. ae : During our annual training. And that’s required for Y- wu All employees. Fa) What does cover? MR. a : Suicide signs, prevention, coping, just ything pertaining to suicide, sir. Signs to look for. MR. QJ: | om-hun. MR. QJ: um -- MR. a : Is there any specific staff that are more trained, or specifically trained for this area of the prison? Housing Unit something the MCC does independent, or is that policy dictated? How does that -- EFTA00125500

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) oO Hy "y H = ty fh mn 4 Ww a MR. a : That’s our policy dictates that they get quarterly training. That’s BOP policy; MR. a : Okay. When someone, you t the BOP can place n i] bh jen ct J yy rt wu 4 kK n ct fu hr bh 3 i) 3 5 oO Le] i) MR. a : Is there any paperwork or documentation for that that they have to fill MR. a : No. Basically they’1ll tell that, you know, that hey we need to place him on watch, and we’ll place him on watch, and then we’ll contact psychology. MR. a : Okay. MR. a : To come in and talk to them. referral oO MR. a : No. Psychology will handle MR. a : -- here and there, in their notes and their documentation that th y were EFTA00125501

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 37 w ~] ive) placed on it, when they were placed on it. MR. a : So, the psychology department is responsible for documenting when people come in in treatment. MR. a : We, you know, we have what we call a daily log in the -- MR. Es : Um-hum. MR. a : -- institution. So, the log would annotate somebody was placed on suicide watch also. MR. a : Okay. Is there any specific forms or reports that get filled out when somebody is removed from suicide watch? MR. a : I believe psychology would do those forms and saying in their reports why they were removed and if they’re ready to be released. MR. a : Do you get those forms? MR. a : I don’t get the special medical ones. I just, with the notification that, you know, with the one that email that goes out -- MR. a : Um-hum. MR. a : -- that the individual was released from suicide watch. EFTA00125502

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. a : Do you get notified, you lo o 2 just said you get notified in the email that 3 somebody’s removed or -- 4 MR. a : It’s an email that the 5 psychology department puts out stating who’s on 6 suicide watch, who’s been removed. J 2 aw H is] that a daily list? 8 Like they send it once a day, or when someone 9 new comes on and off? How does that -- WwW = ry rt Q a = a Oo 17) you know, who’s got released, and t wi ~ a Who does that get 16 disseminated to? 7 MR. a : It’s a group. It’s a group 8 email that gets sent to all department heads, 9 Captain, Lieutenants, everybody in the need to 20 know. 21 MR. a : This is the supervisors 22 within the institution? The Lieutenants, the 23 Captain. 24 MR. a : (Indiscernible *00:17:07). EFTA00125503

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) oO y "y H = ty a mn tf Ww oO MR. a : And, don’t quote me on that, but I need to look at the chain -- 5 5 = fu 2 MR. a : -- to see who’s actually on MR. a : But it’s not an institution-wide email? MR. a : It is kind of sent out institution wide because you have the different departments on it. So, you can say it’s institution wide. MR. a : Not every person in the institution gets that email, though? MR. QJ: «No. = don’t -- Just not an MCC all MR. a : No, it’s not an all staff. Oo Ph MR. QM: Ss what is the expectation the department heads and the supervisors and the Lieutenants and Captains once they get this email? What are they supposed to do with that? MR. a : I mean, it’s just a notification that the individual’s being EFTA00125504

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 40 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) removed from suicide watch. So, it depends on where they’re going. So, if they’re going back to Special Housing Unit, so it’s notification that hey, this person’s been taken off. We have nobody on watch right now. ve. a: to disseminate that? What are they supposed to oO kay. Are they supposed do with that information? Are they supposed to tell anybody where they -- MR. a : Well, I mean when that individual is released -- MR. FY : Um-hum. MR. a : Wherever they’re going for, they’ re going to be notified by psychology that they’ re coming directly -- MR. a : So, it was just an accountability -- MR. a : -- thing just to know that hey, this person is getting off of watch. MR. a : So, psychology will notify whatever unit they’re going back to? EFTA00125505

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 41 ~] wo 10 11 MR. a : Well, it depends where you’re going back to. Typically I always go to Special Housing Unit down. MR. QM: okay. MR. a : And typically when you do, let’s say an individual has tried to commit suicide. It’s an infraction. So, they usually have an incident report that goes beyond that. So, you have to come up to the Special Housing Unit anyway before so that that infraction can be resolved. MR. a : Okay. MR. a : So, there are a number of aspects of, you know, how. Did you go straight back or if you don’t go back there. MR. a : And this email that psychology sends out with the list of who’s in and who’s out of suicide watch -- MR. a : Who’s on watch, yeah? MR. QM: -- is that once a day or twice a day? Is that morning and evening thing? MR. a : It depends. MR. FY : Okay. MR. a : When you come in in the EFTA00125506

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 42 1 morning, they could say, you know, this is 2 who’s on watch, and then you get another one 3 stating who’s been released off of watch. 4 MR. a : Okay. Is there any policy 5 or standard operation procedure on how 6 (Indiscernible *00: that email gets sent wo [es] a a m fe) = = fe) z = wa Hh Lal rr © Q G o 5 a rr > w + © 3 fw Hr b \ \ 11 MR. a : Okay. But it should be at ive) Fs) That’s when they send it 4 out I don’t -- 15 MR a : Okay. When somebody is 16 removed from Special Housing -- 7 MR. a : Um-hum. 8 MR a : -- and placed in suicide 9 watch on the second floor -- 20 MR. QJ: 9 Um-hun. 21 MR. a : -- is anything done to 22 their cell in Special Housing? Is there any 23 precautions or anything that go into that? 24 MR. a : So, typically let’s say you 25 do leave, and it depends on how much space we EFTA00125507

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 43 1 have. We really don’t have that much space. 2 MR. QM: | Okay. mR. a: 3 So, usually that cell, 4 depending on if when they were removed from the 5 cell, if they had a cellmate. So, what happens 6 is that individual’s property is removed, and 7 we could possibly put somebody else in that 8 cell. wo a oO ~ wu ke 11 MR. a : And again, the suicide 2 watch versus psychological, the psyche eval 3 that, you said that happened right away when 4 someone first comes in the prison; correct? 5 16 4 8 9 MR. ae : A psychological eval. 20 MR. QJ: Okay. 21 MR. a : I want to clarify, earlier 22 you said that people, inmates get that when 23 they first come into the prison; correct? 24 MR. a : Yeah. ychologically when 25 they initially have to come and actually EFTA00125508

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 44 uw ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 perform -- MR. a : Okay. MR. a : -- an initial intake screening. MR. a : Is there a level below suicide watch? MR. a : Well we also have what we call a psyche observation. MR. a : And I think the best way to describe that would be it’s a step-down from suicide watch. For example, we might have a mental health inmate that is just mentally, you know, out there. So, we’ll put them on psyche observation. They haven’t said they’re going to hurt themselves, but they have the potential to do it. Somebody might be on narcotics and acting erratic and you don’t know what they’re on. So, they might end up doing it. But it’s a different type of observation because it’s not as stringent as suicide watch. MR. a : Okay. MS. a : Can you explain what that means? What are the requirements when an EFTA00125509

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 45 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 inmate is on psyche eval, or psyche observation? MR. a : If they’ re on psyche observation, we are not necessarily putting them in a smock. You know? You can still have your regular clothing. We’re just observing your behavior and that. So, that’s the difference. MS. a : And does the psychologist stop by every day? MR. a : They’ re treated the same way as somebody that’s on suicide watch. They’re evaluated, come up with a plan. They’re ready to be released. Keep them on, more along those lines. MS. a : Well is someone on psyche evaluation, do they have an inmate companion watching them? MR. a : Psyche obs also has an inmate companion. So, anybody in that area has an inmate watching them. MR. a : As the Warden, do you have any input on the determinate if someone’s in psychological observation, in suicide watch or observation status? Do you have any input on EFTA00125510

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 4 w ~] wo 10 11 ive) on that? MR. a : I don’t overrule medical decisions. I’m not a doctor. MR. QJ: | om-hun. MR. a : If they come to me and say warranted whether it’s medical care or ct S p. ts) f i) not, I don’t -- MR. a : Okay. MS. a : But you’re briefed on it? MR. a : I’m briefed on it. Yes. Ms. : = MR. a : Orally they’1ll come and say, well we’ll discuss an inmate saying, hey, he fa that orally? has mental issues. I feel that they need to be placed here or there. And I’m going with your evaluation. I’m not going to, and I have good psychologists. So, I trust their judgment. MS. a : Can an inmate be taken off of suicide watch by Dr. , or her staff without consulting you? MR. a : They can. The doctor decides who’s coming off of watch. So, they can make the determination and, you know, they send up to the Associate Warden, the Captain, and it will come to release and if they’re EFTA00125511

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 47 1 going off it. So, it doesn’t -- 2 MS. a : But do they -- Ww a | | fu 0 ct ie) =] o Q @ 7) un fu ai hb bt hel bh rt 107) Do wi 7) 6 you when that happens? J 5 Depending on, you know, if Les] k rr A ct 7 oO re) my ifs] o fe) £ know? Who it is, you might wo on v) b Hi x a H rt ni] aid, a high profile individual they 10 would say, “Hey, we’re taking him off of watch. 11 We're doing this.” So, we’ll be following the 2 plan closely, so -- ive) Fs) When it comes to Epstein, 5 MR. QJ: 9 om-hun. health program. Can you just tell us your A ; in the mental t oO a if 8 understanding of his involvement with the 9 psychologist at MCC? 20 MR. QJ: 9m, let me back-track. 22 MR. a : It’s not a mental health No No wi BOP Ey oO | ay | fw Co EFTA00125512

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 4 co Being, I guess, reviewed by ies) Sure. wi aw -- they’re following him. 6 He was on their case. 8 MR. a : And you want to know what I ts) ~ 3 o = a] ion re] co ct p- ct i=) a 1) Ye 11 MR. a : Again, he was under their 2 care. They were evaluating him, and, you know, 3 going through their protocol to determine why 4 he was on watch. If he was on suicide watch, 5 can he come off of suicide wa Was he F oO n c pe Q Be Q i) b 4 =) im 3 i] b B os om rt ei wu rt 7 MR. a : At any time, were you 8 aware or notified of him being suicidal or 9 having any suicidal ideations or attempts? 20 MR. a : Well we had an incident he was in the cell with PY -- -- that it might’ve been a No Nm No ion) id 24 suicide attempt and it might not have been a 25 suicide attempt. So, we followed the protocols EFTA00125513

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 49 w ~] ive) and put him on watch. There was also an internal investigation where he was interviewed and his cellmate was interviewed, and he basically denied (Indiscernible *00:25:35). MR. a : When you say “he denied”, MR. a : -- or Epstein? MR. a : No, Epstein stated that, “Hey, I didn’t try to kill myself.” And then PF said that he was sitting in the cell. He thought he was having a heart attack. So, I forget the words psychology used to determine what their conclusion was as far as the actual act. MR. QJ: Okay. MS. a : Did you review the incident report for the suicide attempt? MR. a : I reviewed the investigative report that the Lieutenant interviewed both of them, took their statements, and all that because the review process goes from, the Lieutenant initiates it. It goes to the Captain, Associate Warden, and myself. And then I, uh, sign off on it. EFTA00125514

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LIMITED w ~] wo 10 11 ive) OFFICIAL USE 50 MS. a : Did you speak with Dr. | after she had consulted with Mr. Epstein when he was placed on suicide watch? MR. QJ: «um, yes. We have sHU meetings, and we have it once a week, and Epstein was brought up, and she talked about Mr. Epstein. MS. a : After the suicide attempt? MS. a : What day of the week is the SHU thing typically? MR. a : It’s Thursdays. MS. a : All right and -- MR. QJ: «Right. MS. a : -- what happens at the SHU meetings? MR. a : It’s a list where we go around and we talk about every inmate. We have n inmates that are in there for infractions, criminal issues, from your office, a high- profile guy might come in. So, we just talk about, okay, what’s the status. If we call in a disciplinary citation, that means they’ve been sanctioned and they’re doing time, and then we look at the release date. We have some EFTA00125515

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 51 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 in there pending investigations. Cellphone introduction. Drug introduction. So, that goes through the investigative process, and then we have, you know, we also have our SAMs (phonetic sp.) inmates that are housed in there. So, we basically discuss and talk about every inmate. MS. a : And who attends these meetings? MR. a : Myself, all the Associate Wardens, the Unit Managers, psychology, the Captain, the SHU Lieutenant, the Investigative Lieutenant. So, we just have everyone there that’s involved in the -- MS. a: And what’s your understanding of whether the SHU Lieutenant or the Captain brief out the duty Officers in the SHU about the outcome of that SHU meeting every week, MR. a : I don’t understand what you mean. MS. a : So, do you have an understanding of whether, because the duty Officers are not present in the SHU meeting; EFTA00125516

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 52 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 correct? MR. QR: No. MS. a : Do you have an understanding of how, for instance, if you tell the Lieutenant, I want this done in the SHU, will the Lieutenant then tell his duty Officers after the meeting? MR. a : Well, the duty officer is supposed to make rounds throughout the institution when they’re on duty to observe and report if anything is not right. And then if we have incidents, they make notifications, you know, to the region. MS. QM: to the region? MR. a : To, like let’s say we have a MS. a : Um-hum. MR. a : Or maybe like you said, a suicide attempt. So, they have to contact the Regional Duty Officer. That’s their notification. They make the Regional Duty Officer, and then it moves up the chain that way, and then I have to make my notifications, which I make my notifications to the Regional Director. EFTA00125517

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 53 wi ~] 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 does any information, do you have an understanding of whether any information that’s conveyed in these SHU meetings gets briefed down to the line Officers who are responsible for patrolling the SHU? MR. QJ: 9 Right. MS. QM: | t does? MR. QJ: «Yeah. The SHU Lieutenant is there, and he’s in the meeting, he or she is in the meeting, and they’re talking to their staff on what needs to be done or the status, you know. We’re going in and we determine if somebody can be released, then that will be conveyed back that hey, an individual can be released. MS. a : So, you were saying that after the July 23*° suicide attempt, there was a Thursday SHU meeting? MR. QJ: 9 Right. MS. a : In which Dr. | discussed at least her initial observations of Mr. Epstein? MR. a : Well, she would initially discuss it there, but she would also initially, EFTA00125518

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 54 1 whoever, you know, if the Warden is there, 2 initiate it to the AW. So, that would be 3 something immediate that she would say, hey, 4 he’s on watch and this happened. 5 MS. a : And what happened at that 6 first SHU meeting after the suicide attempt? 7 MR. a: The week of July 22°° to the 8 26™, 9 ay 10 I was, you know, I was 11 getting called. So, I don't know the 2 specifics, but I was aware of, you know, I got 3 called that hey, there was an attempt and the 4 protocols were followed. 16 MR. a : Notifications were made. 7 MS. a : Okay. So, the following 8 week which I think is the week of the 29°", 9 MR. a: The 29°" or the 30°, yeah. 20 MS. QM: You were back in the w 21 office? 22 MR. QJ: «that Monday. So, if you 23 have a calendar, I can look at it. EFTA00125519

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 55 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Monday. I have to check, did I take a extra day or not? I’m not sure, but the 29™, I should’ve, I would’ve been back. MS. a: So, that Thursday meeting which looks like would’ve been August 1%*, you were present at? MR. a : Yes. MS. a : And what was discussed during the SHU meeting? MR. a : The SHU meeting, we’1ll discuss every inmate. Every inmate on the list, what’s their status? Updates and all that stuff. MS. QM: Okay. And specifically with respect to Epstein, what was discussed? MR. a : I don’t recall specifically. I know we would’ve talked about him. We would’ve probably talked about, you know, his psychological status and I got to remember on the first, he was probably back in the Special Housing Unit. So, we were probably, you know, talking about his housing conditions, what’s he doing, and usually the conversation was during the day he was down at the attorney visits, you know? EFTA00125520

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 5 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 And then there were certain exams that we had to do that we wanted to get done on him. And then we discussed that. MS. a: Uh, what kind of exams? MR. a : Physicals and then, you know, and I don't know if that was before or after his sleep apnea machine that he was, you know, requesting. MS. EJ: m-hun. MR. a : Because typically, you know, you have to go through the fitting and the process, but, you know, we allowed that one to come in. We checked it, security wise, and said it was fine to come in, and we got it. So, I think we might have been discussing that, more along those lines. But we discuss every inmate in there. I don’t specifically remember it. I know we would’ve talked about what the issues were pertaining to him. MS. a : Um, let’s go back to -- MR. a : Um-hum. MS. a : -- the suicide attempt. MR. a : Okay. MS. a: You said that you were on EFTA00125521

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] wo 10 11 ive) leave that week, but you were notified by your Associate Warden? MR. a : Associate Warden, yes. MS. a : Okay. Were you receiving daily updates? MR. a : Not, I mean, they called me 5 J during the day the first time that it happened. Hey, this is what happened. He’s on wat And then the next day, you know, he was still on watch. So, there was really no, I didn’t need that much updates because we knew he wa fo on watch. MS. a : Okay. MR. SJ: um -- MS. a : And you notified your Regional Director? MR. a : I notified my Regional Director. And then while I was on leave, my Regional Director was also in contact with my acting AW. MS. QJ: «Did the -- MR. a : Acting Warden, I’m MS. a : Did the Regional Director convey any directions to your AW during that if] 2) ia K he time? EFTA00125522

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. a : I believe just the basics, uw o 2 you know. Keep him updated what’s going on 3 because at the time he was under psychology’s 4 care. w is MR . a : So, once they’re in that, oO a u 7 there’s really not that much input to go on 8 because they’re on watch. 9 MS. a : And then Epstein was 10 downgraded from suicide watch to psyche 11 observation. 2 MR. a : Psyche observation. While he was still on the ive) Hi 4 second floor? 16 MS. a : Were you notified of that oo 5 K © U f that he was on psyche 9 obs 20 you discuss 21 22 MR. a : Yeah. We talked about it. 23 Again, it was, you know, him going back up to 24 the Special Housing Unit. Although he wasn’t 25 suicidal, it was just a matter of, okay, who EFTA00125523

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE uw ite] 1 are we going to house him with? 2 MS. a : Um-hum. 3 MR. a : You know, coming to that 4 decision and then that would give her more time 5 to work with him if she needed. 6 MS. a : Okay. Did you a 7 discussion with Dr. | about whether she 8 felt he was still suicidal? 9 MR a : Again, if the psychologist 10 tells me that he’s ready and he goes, I don’t 11 question medical judgment. I trust her 2 judgement. If he’s not suicidal and 3 he’s ready to go back, then we trust her 4 judgment. 15 Ms. QJ: and she dia -- 16 MR. a : Because she -- 7 MS. a : -- tell you that? 8 MR. a : She said he was ready to go 9 back. He wasn’t suicidal and that he was ready 20 to go back. 21 MS. a : Did you review any of her 22 reports or the psychologist’s reports -- 23 MR. QJ: «I don’t -- 24 MS. a : -- during the time he was EFTA00125524

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 60 MR. a : No. I don’t review any medical files. MS. a : And he came back to the SHU on the 30°", is that right? you have, let’s start with Dr. a. about the conditions of his confinement in the S MR. She just said to get him in, you know, we’re going to put him, get hima cellmate because typically every inmate that, you know, is on suicide or whatever, we say, Oo cae fu = D ia oO ite) oO bp =] Q ¢ Oo QQ p 0 a Pp 3 fu re] it) bh bh 3 fw rt o O Ph that was when we went through the proce if] 1S 0 figuring out, okay, who could we possibly ue} oc rt him in with? Um, the pickings were slim. So, I came up with a. and no wait, no. [RRRM, be had been put down there originally because of | ti‘(‘i‘C‘iésl MR. a : So, what happened was had to come up with some more inmates. So, I came up with three. It was, I believe, a. EFTA00125525

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LIMITED ies) w co io ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 61 a. and who was the other one? We had another sex offender in there that we were going to put him in there, and he said, “If he ’ comes in here, it’s going to be a problem.’ So, we didn’t put him in there. MR. a : ma. an older gentleman. He couldn’t be in tt institution be it Saus @ was jperating, so we figured that = w rt) wu Q oO O Qa ct 7 iad @ 0] rt Oo fit, and then I sent an email of s Chief of Staff I sent an email sp.). him, here are the three -- MR. -- possible ones. oH U Did you tell ft -- a. 3) EFTA00125526

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE MS. QM: bid you tell mr. [ay that he needed to have a cellmate? uw ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 mR. QJ: ves. discussion was, for a cellmate. That’s that up, spoke with my Regional believe he received it too, and conclusion | would probably for him. So, we put him in the MS. a : Is there a whether an inmate needs to have after they’ve been taken off of sound correctional judgment. I 62 what the So, I sent Director. I came to the be the best fit cell with policy about a cellmate suicide watch? There’s no policy, but it’s mean even if an individual is not on suicide watch, and you’re in the Special Housing Unit, you typically want somebody in there with them. Um-hum. Because, I mean, you never know what could happen. So, just for somebody to talk to, you know, pass the time. So, you typically put somebody in there we’re in a situation where they’ separated from somebody -- unless again re just totally EFTA00125527

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 63 wi ~] 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a : -- and we can’t put them in there because it becomes a life safety issue. MS. a : How long after someone is taken off suicide watch would you typically direct that they have a cellmate? MR. a : It would depend on the situation, because you could be getting released to a unit where you would automatically have a cellmate going through, or you know, direction could put out that, hey, make sure the individual has a cellmate. So, there’s no really timeframe on when you would decide that. MR. QM: Just to clarify, as it relates to, I know you guys just discussed this, but just making sure I’m following you guys correctly. As it relates to the first suicide attempt back on July 23°, Mr. Epstein. MR. QJ: «Right. MR. QM: You were on leave. MR. a: Yeah, the 229, MR. a : You were notified via telephone of this, and you notified the Regional Director. Is that correct? MR. a : Yeah, of the, yeah, I did EFTA00125528

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 64 call him to tell him. MR. a : You called the Regional Director? notify him? Did you notify 23** incident? MR. a : No, I called my boss, and -- And your staff was were working in the MR. a : Which staff? MR. a : Your Assistant Warden, who EFTA00125529

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 Warden, MR. so she -- a : Acting Warden. 3 MR. a : Yeah. 5 MR. BMJ: | At othe time, I believe it te) -_ 5 Fal = b Kh t ioe) a) she notified anybo a: She would’ve notified the a : And she would’ve notified but she was just calling me -- his is what’s going on. And back when, a ys later when Epstein was removed from That he was being mo ngraded from -- just to let me know like, EFTA00125530

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LIMITED ies) co co OFFICIAL USE 66 suicide watch to psychological observation. MR. a : Did you notify any K i) 7] MR. QJ: 9m, I might’ve called my boss to let him know t hey, he’s been downgraded off of suicide watch. MR. a: specifically calling? MR. QJ: «No, I don’t. MR. a : e) MR. a : But I probably would’ve notified him. notifying anybody specifically about that Did you recall downgrade? MR. a : What, as far as him? MR. QJ: No, I don’t would’ve probably been my boss telling me -- MR. a : -- hey, we moved him from suicide watch down to -- EFTA00125531

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LIMITED ioe) w io ioe) its) OFFICIAL USE 67 MS. a : And that’s Director? ct io” o Pe) 0] rm Oo 3 w hb That’s the Regional Director. he was removed from o And then a few days later because Um-hum. MR. a : -- a roommate. that was the whole MR. EFTA00125532

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 6 ao jing, hey, he’s coming off watch. 0] 3 2 He’s going to the Special Housing Unit. ies) i Um-hum. 4 MR. a : And he’s going to get a w i] ie) Oo 8 3 Fit) ct ws Other than your Regional Director, did you notify anybody else? co a coming off -- oO a 10 MR. a : -- or talk about it? ive) oO you told, during that fee) 3 om 0 rt ps =] wQ Qu. ie) ie) Cc tt 0] Q fu } b when that meeting was? 9 MR. a : I don’t recall when the 20 meeting was, but I just told them, 21 needs to have a cellmate. This is his 22 cellmate. Cellmate at all times. And, you 23 know, put it out to your -- EFTA00125533

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. a : To the departments and your 2 areas of responsibility on that’s how he was o io Ww re] 12) p o Q rr fe} ion 0 om Oo Gc n oO o 5 specifically tell that to? 6 MR. ae : My Associate Wardens were in 7 there, whoever was acting, the Captain because 8 that specifically falls under his area. 9 MS. a : Um-hum. 10 MR. QJ: §9The Special Housing Unit. I 11 told him specifically he needs to be housed 2 alone. I informed his Lieutenant, you know, 3 and his offices and basically on each shift, ust be mindful, you know, of making rounds and wu. 5 just not for him, just ybody. 16 MS. a : And what’s the Captain’s Lee) 5 wo 11 Captain 22 moved back to 23 the SHU 24 MR. a : Yeah. We had a meeting, and 25 I and I said, hey, this was going EFTA00125534

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 70 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 to be the plan that | was going to be moved in with him. He was going to have a cellmate, and that was the protocol we were going to follow. MS. Ee : Did | confirm that he would tell his Lieutenants, or his -- MR. a : He confirmed. I followed up and asked him, did you put it out to the Lieutenants and staff working, and he told me yes. MS. ae: And was that before Epstein, his confirmation, did that come before Epstein was moved back to the SHU, or around the first day he was in the SHU? MR. a : No before. I had the conversation with him, and then I followed up afterwards and said, “Hey, did you disseminate the information?” And he said, “Everything was disseminated.” But it wasn’t just a one-day thing. It was a constant, I told him, a constant follow up, you know? Make sure that, you know, these protocols are being followed. MS. a : How many times do you recall telling Captain | that, between EFTA00125535

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 71 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 when Epstein went back to the SHU -- MR. a : Um-hum. MS. a : -- and then his suicide? MR. a : I don’t recall the number of times, but it was just a conversation constantly reminding that let’s be vigilant on just not him, but everybody in the Special Housing Unit. MS. a : Could you estimate daily? Once? Twice? MR. a : I wouldn’t say daily. I would say, I don’t have an actual number. I don’t want to say an actual number, but you know, if I did encounter, or I made rounds in the unit, I would, you know, tell staff up there, you know, be vigilant with your protocol. So, I don't know the specific amount of time. I make my rounds once a week at a minimum, but, you know, sometimes it’s more. Sometimes it’s less. MR. a : When it comes to the ability, so you specifically go back to, what you said earlier about aaa. MR. QJ: «Right. EFTA00125536

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LIMITED ies) w co ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE ie) MR. a : You came up with three roommates for him, and for approval, or whe MR. a : I sent it to, I made my boss aware of it. ini e did that go that list? MR. ae : I just know about -- MR. a : You briefed it up the You briefed your suggesti I went up And there was, were there that list? I gave the three possibles - EFTA00125537

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 73 1 MR. FY : Um-hum. 2 MR. a : -- but you know, one I had 3 was a 26-year-old drug dealer I know he, and he 4 was still in there, and I was like although he 5 was separated, I just didn’t -- 6 MR. a : Um-hum. 7 MR. a : -- feel that he could, you 8 know, he might, somebody could convince him to 9 do something. So, he didn’t, I didn’t feel 10 comfortable with him, and I forget the other 11 one. And I think the other one might’ve been 2 somebody that was going to be releasing soon. Ww 5 oO I took in the factors Um-hum. 7 MR. a : -- and second when he t oO a 8 checked himself in and feeling that he was 9 going to be long-term. 20 VR. SE: y. That, 21 special care and consideration in picking 22 Epstein’s roommate, cellmate? No No wi BOP i} i} K is) o ie) ue] t b 2) 5 a Hi a wu o i} | EFTA00125538

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 74 2 MR. a : -- which wasn’t too many. I 3 mean, he had to have a cellmate, and the 4 options weren’t good. 5 MR. a : Are staff in the Special 6 Housing Unit allowed to assign cellmates ~] arbitrarily or on their own without consulting 8 a Captain, Lieutenant, or yourself 9 (Indiscernible *00:46:26). 10 MR. a : Yeah, the offices on their 11 own can, you know, if they have to move 2 somebody around can move somebody around based 3 on they know who can be housed with who. If 4 somebody’s separation, they know who’s 15 separated from an individual. So, they can do 16 that. 7 MR. a : Okay. 8 MR. a : I mean, they’re capable of 9 doing that. 20 MR. QJ: Okay. As it relates, talk 21 about 9 a little bit. 22 MR. QJ: 9 Right. 23 MR. a : He’s no longer in MCC; EFTA00125539

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE 75 MR. a : When was he released from MR. QJ: Okay. Was he transferred out? Was he released from custody? Under what conditions, do you know? MR. a : From what I understand, i was with all belongings. So, I don’t -- MR. a : -- who took him. You can’t, I mean, even if you look on Sentry, you don’t ct ry] know where he was -- MR. a : -- but when we looked at him originally, it still showed that he was going long-term. Now it’s just showing there I don't mR. QJ: «No, he’s EFTA00125540

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~) LIMITED OFFICIAL USE C 2 MR. a : Prior to, you had, you were very active in making sure that Epstein ies) 4 had an appropriate cellmate? w a i Q ro + 6 MR. a : What were you, to the last week Friday, what were you aware of 8 a. any court proceedings or any issues or wo concerns about him leaving the ™ 10 MR. a : I was off on Friday. 11 MR. fr : Okay. MR. a : So, I didn’t know anything No Fs Ww wy o 0 c it 7 2 n ie) Oo c ini rt ie ial oO 0 o oO on iz 5 Q ifs] | | 5 MR. a : -- or whatever. I just know this from after the fact. 7 MR. a : Okay. When it comes to oO 8 a. the staff in the Special Housing Unit, 9 how do they get notified of court dates, of the 20 probability of someone being released from the 21 facility? How does that process 25 MR. a : Where the inmates are EFTA00125541

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ~) ~] processed in and processed out. So, they get notification that hey, such and such is leaving, and send him down. MR. QJ: Okay. Does the MCC usually, or sometimes, what’s the, how often or frequently does the MCC get advanced notice of an inmate leaving? MR. a : It depends. If the inmate’s designated -- MR. a : Um-hum. MR. a : -- then we know in advance he’s designated. But usually the Marshalls will come and say, whoever is picking him up, “Hey, we’re taking such and such.” We might get a list ahead of time if somebody’s going to maybe one of the county facilities or some they just come and say, “Hey, we need this guy.” MR. a : Okay. Ultimately Friday, the 9%, | | is discharged. MR. QJ: 9 Um-hun. MR. a : Leaving Epstein, actually let’s talk about without a cellmate. Was there a plan in place if that were to happen? MR. a : We’d review it and say, okay, who can he be with? But he wouldn’t have EFTA00125542

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LIMITED ies) w fos) ive) oO oo OFFICIAL USE MR. a : Was there anybody in the u ie) cial Housing Unit that wa room with, or cell with Epstein? @ cause again, an ty ut already vetted to didn’t we would’ve gotter Oo ody in there temporarily. you firs I was told he was MR. a : I got a call about told me that, hey -- t MR. a : When were you first 6: MR. a : -- that he attemptec become suicide EFTA00125543

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LIMITED oO io ioe) oO oo wo OFFICIAL USE 79 The The Captain MR. a : Would you mind, in that you mind just telling us about that conver found him in his cell. fibrill i) wu tor on him and that they were working on him. MR. a : And w EFTA00125544

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 80 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 was like, okay. Where are they at? Is EMS coming in? She said she didn’t have that much information because the Lieutenant was down with Epstein performing life-saving measures. So, that’s when I came in. MR. a: When did you start asking questions about | Og On the phone or when you arrived at the facility? MR. a : So, when I got there, I was like, where is the cellmate. MR. a: Um-hum. MR. a : I asked the Lieutenant, like where is his cellmate, and Lieutenant said, “I asked the same question when I went down and, you know, started.” He asked the officer, ‘“Where’s his cellmate?” And, you know, just couldn’t, you know, he was disoriented and told me he had said that. So, that’s when we started, you know, started the process of where’s | 6g MR. a : Just for timeline purposes, about what time did you arrive? MR. a : I got there about 7:30. MR. a : Okay. Who within the Special Housing Unit would’ve had the ability EFTA00125545

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 81 10 11 12 13 14 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 or who within the Special Housing Unit would’ve had the ability or the authority to back-fill | spot as Epstein’s cellmate? MR. a : Well what would’ve happened, which was instructed to them, was -- MR. a : Okay. MR. a : -- they would’ve told the Lieutenant or Captain, hey, ia. I mean Epstein needs a cellmate. And then we would’ve started the process of getting him a cellmate. Because when, and this was Epstein’s routine. He got up early in the morning at 8, and he didn’t come back to his cell until about 7:30 at night from his attorney visits. | left in the morning. So, he doesn’t come back to his cell until in the evening, which on that particular day, he got back about, from what I understand, around 6:45. MR. QR: Okay. MR. QJ: Yeah. MR. a : You said that they were instructed to notify that Epstein needed a cellmate? MR. a : So, the Captain, as I told you before -- EFTA00125546

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oo LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. a : Um-hum. -- when I told them about Nh 5 Ww ct : ci) o vel o a ct wu rt a is) 5 un w a 3 i bh t oS wu ct = fw un is] ra] oa ct oO b oa 5 o oO Q in w co a3 a : And he’s to be having a 9 cellmate at all times. If he need to notify you and t you told the Captain - 3 - 4 MR. a : I told the Captain 5 cifically that. 7 to tell his, below him. oO was fee) 5 I oO ie] 5 0) ke @ on p- rt t oO rt a iu) 9 Lieutenant, to the Officers, and seminated So, he should’ ve 22 been notified. How should the notification EFTA00125547

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LIMITED ies) co io ioe) co OFFICIAL USE that | | was dismissed? MR. a : The Officers should’ ve called the Lieutenant -- MR. working the unit? ecial Housing Unit? ial Housing Unit know that he So, once he gets packed up, They should’ve known, let me notify and move it up the chain, Epstein SHU would -- EFTA00125548

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 84 1 MR. FY : Um-hum. 2 MR. a : -- and if they say WAB, it’s with all belongings. they more than likely ies) wi os) uy Oo oO u. =] m rt rt oO oO a P- wn it) rt & hh Ph | | 7 MR. QE: 9 om-hum. 8 MR. a : -- and then whatever he had 9 in his cell, and if he had something in the 10 property room, th ve gone to get it. 11 Or if they didn’t, then we would somewhere down 2 the line ship it to wherever his destination 3 is 4 MR. a : Is the staff that’s packing up a’ belongings Correctional Officers? 7 MR. a : i’ property would’ ve been stored up in our Special Housing Unit. ) jifferent than the O oO co 21 taken by our Special Housing Unit staff to our 22 receiving and discharge center. 23 MR. a : Is that staff, when you 24 say “staff”, is that a different responsibility 25 than being a Correctional Officer? EFTA00125549

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE B5 1 MR. a : Well we’re all, we’re all correctional workers -- 4 MR. a : -- but their department is, ies) co you process £ a3 i?) + .) rT) t it) J o ran o c a ) c ran ish rt ny] 0) rt a 0) 0 rt Bh rh Q = 3 rt O rt a o 3 = > Oo a jor fee) 19 MR. ae : I got it. 24 | belon 25 MR. a : Right. They we EFTA00125550

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No N N ion) OFFICIAL USE oo a all of his belongings. Now I don't know if he has some property still in the property room. ve] But whatever was in his cell, they would’ve -hered and taken down. MR. a : So, the Officers that are in the Sp Q w a iO) cial Housing Unit either would |! actively participated or observed i’ belongings being packed up and lea ig? 5 and taken. And Sure. I don't know if he went to 5 Um-hum. a) I don't know -- 5 Right. 5 -- but the terminology with all belongings. being -- a) Is there any documentation or reports about when i’ belongings would have been collected from Special Housing Unit? MR. a : I wouldn’t say belongings, but there would be something showing that he EFTA00125551

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LIMITED ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) OFFICIAL USE 87 was departed the institution. in the system somewhere? MR. a : Uh, yeah. Okay. And that would be They would be have that. Sentry, which we use to track on when he was And it will also show in keyed out. MR. a : Okay. So, just to recap. working in the Special Housing Unit would’ ve The Officers that were observed a belongings leaving. They were instructed via the Captain through your orders that if Epstein was to have a cellmate at all times. you know, supposed to be briefed up to the At all times. And that if that wasn’t, Captain and then ultimately to you. correct? the SHU Lieutenant was working, the SHU Right. The Lieutenant, if EFTA00125552

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LIMITED ies) w co ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE oo co Lieutena nt happened to be off that day the SHU Lieutenant was was that? MR. a : Huh? It was the Lieutenan MR. a : Uh, Lieutenant a. Supervisor? MR. ae : We didn’t, well the Operations, if we don’t have a SHU Lieutenant y WhO was TI 1s Lieutenant is the on duty, the Operatio Lieutenant that would come up, make rounds, and Okay. And who was that on I don’t recall. I have to EFTA00125553

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LIMITED ies) w co ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE oo io MR. Let’s talk a little e) tan fu ‘< bit about staffing that day. MR. c peat w ke MR. MR. 5 K rt] tT MR. MR. H fs] i) o t kK oO i= he give it to MR. Oo =] MR. Well, I got a memorandum this morning -- MS. a : This morning, MR. QJ: 9 About the that they knew that he left and when he left he told the evening w guy that Epstein needed a cellmate. MS. dated today? MR. ae : Because when I came in this morning, one of my Lieutenants came in and I asked him, I said, “Hey, have you heard Friday?” And that’s when he told me he had talked to the EFTA00125554

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LIMITED OFFICIAL Oo w oO oo And who -- ue} is ct rt a ny] ct in writing? had told him to put it in writing. (Indis MR. a : -- read it so we’re on the same page, here. MR. a : So, we have a memo dated Um-hum. August 12, 2019 to the Warden from -- MR. a : | (phonetic sp.) I -- MR. a : And the subject is, Past Information from Special Housing Units. Um-hum. Um-hum. USE 9 0 EFTA00125555

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LIMITED ioe) wo ioe) oO co OFFICIAL USE 91 Lieutenant || to write this memo? sted, was told by MS. I (Indisc MR. | i rt fw a i MR. ae : Where are you in terms of EFTA00125556

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 92 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 staffing? Like what percentage are you, would you say? MR. a : I believe we’re in our low 80s, high 70s. I'd have to look at the staffing or whatever. MR. a: But somewhere around 80%. MR. a : Right, but it doesn’t only, that’s not the only issue. The only issue -- MR. a: Sure. MR. a : -- is like we, let’s say we're staffed to 80%, we’ve got about 30 people that we can’t use. Either they’re on Workman’s Comp. They’re on AWOL status. You name it, we have it. But the problem is, it takes a while to go through that process to remove an employee. So, we can’t just hire when you have a bunch of people like that on you. So, that’s where we’re at. MR. a: Okay. So, how do you as a Warden and as an institution compensate for being 20% understaffed? MR. a : Well, I mean everyone has to chip in. I mean, we’re not like the state where you have your Correctional workers and EFTA00125557

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 93 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you have the contractor workers. Everyone, despite the fact that you might have a different job title, you know how to perform the functions of a Correctional Officer. You have to qualify with weapons every year. You take training on working the housing units, and the majority of them weren’t hired off the street as into their positions. There might be a few. But the majority were Correctional Officers and then promoted into the different positions. So, we have annual refresher training every year where we train and move on like that. But that’s just not, it’s not their primary discipline, being a Correctional Officer. MR. a : You said all staff are trained as Corrections Officers? MR. a : The terminology is you’re Correctional workers. MR. a : So, you know how to perform the functions of a Correctional Officer. wR. okay. MR. a : Carry firearms. You can do EFTA00125558

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LIMITED ies) w fos) Ww oo OFFICIAL U i) scor unit. from else, vehe ologists, ISE tec that oh The only ones who probably MR. Correct Gle ional You housing trips. could work the are exempt are doctors and attorneys and the professionals. workers recel training? a : Well initially to go ay. a : Everyone goes Um-hum. about fy and go where we re-qualify go you happen to know i primary duties are. a material handler But everyone f EFTA00125559

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] foreman. MR. a : What is a material handler? MR. a : They work in the warehouse. So, in the warehouse, it has several functions. You either work in the commissary which the inmates shop for food. He can work in the laundry where you do that, or you work in the warehouse where you’re processing -- MR. a : Um-hum. MR. a : -- in stuff. What’s the other one? We also have an outside warehouse where we take deliveries. So, that’s our, and it’s under our trust fund department. MR. a : Okay. And the night of August 9%, August 10° -- MR. a : Right. MR. a : -- do you happen to know if Mr. Thompson was working as a Correctional Officer in that primary responsibility? MR. a : He was one of the Officers in the Special Housing Unit. MR. a : Okay. Do you know how often he works as a Correction, his responsibility as an Officer? EFTA00125560

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 96 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 MR. a : What they do is since he works in that department, we might, if we need him during the daytime, assign him over to the department. But he does overtime. He was working overtime then. So, we have a lot of overtime. So, individuals in other departments work the overtime. MR. a : Is that something they can do voluntarily, or are they told to do that? How does that work? MR. a : We have a volunteer list for the individuals that don’t work in the department. MR. QM: Okay. MR. a : If you’re a Correctional Officer, we have what’s called a mandation list. So, if we call around and I say, “Hey, we need somebody to work this”, and everyone turns it down and says, “No, I don’t want to work it”, then we go to the mandation list. MR. QR: okay. MR. a : Which is you’re next up to be mandated to work a post. MR. a : Okay. Um -- MS. a: Was he mandated that EFTA00125561

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 97 1 night? 2 MR. a : I believe he wasn’t. He wouldn’t be mandated because he works as a ies) 4 material handler foreman. w signed up for it. co a oO a n 2] u i=) 2 3 of Correctional 4 volunteer for 5 16 You volunteer for 7 overtime Lee) 5 Okay. 9 MR. a : Or during the daytime, I can an wT 20 say, “Look I need to fill these posts. I need 21 you to come from your department to work over 22 in Correctional services. Toba Noel (phonetic EFTA00125562

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ioe) io 19 Ye] co Offi MR. a : Corrections Officer. Do you happen to er regular MR. a : I’m not sure. I think it might’ ve (Indiscernible *01:04:52). I’m oO H + 5) 4 = not sure. MR. a : Her regular shift was watch, and then she did it. So -- 5 =) a © n C no Oo i) v) (Indiscernible *01:05:01). MR. a : And I don't know if that was EFTA00125563

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LIMITED Oo w ot) oO oo 22 OFFICIAL USE 99 MR. Ne K i) tions MR. a : What are the rules, or any limit? Is there, how does the overtime work? EFTA00125564

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 100 Ww 5 Gel 5 fom rt i @ 5 4 said, the prison business is Um-hum. fon) w a a We don’t have the luxury to 7 turn around and say we can’t fill a post. Now 8 I might have a post that might require, you 9 know, X amount of people, but I have to staff 10 it at a minimum where we’re safe coming and N 5 Ss, 8 ! a Cc 3 3 MR. a : So, there’s really no set 4 amount. I mean, depending, you know, I’ve been 5 here, when I first got here where our staffing 16 was really bad where people were doing four a 7 week. 8 MR a : When you say -- 20 MR. QJ: -- “four a week”, what is 22 MR. a : Four overtimes a week. 23 MR. a : Now is, when overtime? Is that like another 8-hour No be if] fu =] No w U s p. Hh ct EFTA00125565

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LIMITED ies) w co ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE 101 Another 8-hour shift. MR. a : Okay. So, you -- MR it depends on, you know, the number of people we volunteering. hiring proc you know, bodies to fill in MR. a : So, an eight additional hours? MR. a : Eight additional hours. Okay. Is there any -- -- is the on how many work? just can’t exceed the amount of 16 hours in a day. Could you explain that for Right. You work eight hours. yu can only work 16 hours ‘t work 24 hours. EFTA00125566

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LIMITED No No No ies) w fos) ive) oo wo ion) OFFICIAL USE 102 rt an’ rou Cc a limit on the how many days in a row you can hours? MR. a : No. If somebody wants to, they could. No, not really, people t MR. ae : -- hey, they might, I don't know people’s financial sit ions. EFTA00125567

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LIMITED ies) w co ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE 103 oO omebody would. MR. a : You know I had a previous job where my supervisor wouldn’t let us work 21 days in a row. We had to take that unofficial like that that -- Well they have their two Is it required that they You take your two days. What you choose to do with those two days is your business. But we don’t, like if someone, it has to be EFTA00125568

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 104 1 it’s your Friday. You won’t get mandated on a 2 Friday because Federal Law have to 3 have X amount of hours off week 5 to days off. 6 So, (Indiscernible *01:08:57) 7 MR. a : So, the most 16-hour days employee can work is five, so they have two co wu 5 9 days off 10 MR Jy 1 because you could say hey I want to work on my WwW 5 oO os wu Co U ie) kK is) o a w oa Qo 2) 3 Oo k 3 t fea) i) BP = o ct wu K het fos) id al 2) ry] =] ct u. = 0] ct ct oc H =] rm) BK (2) Cc S oF | | hing on the EFTA00125569

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 105 uw ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 MS. a : No. MR. QM: Okay. «Talk a little bit about the cameras in the facility. MR. a : Okay. MR. a : What is your understanding on the general reliability of them? MR. a : They’ re not good. We were just funded to get new cameras installed but, you know, when you’re installing the cameras, there’s a lot you have to do. The building is built in 1975. It’s not like a new building, and we’ve got to go through cinderblock. There’s a lot of things that, you know, are in that block. Asbestos. So, we have to do the wiring. SO, the system is outdated. Um -- MR. a : When you say they’re not, are they not reliable? Is it poor quality in recording? What’s the -- MR. a : It’s the recording, but what do they call that, the DVRs? MR. a : Okay. MR. a : The ones that hold the recordings, they’re breaking down. So, sometimes we have where they’re not recording. We have to get it fixed, you know, more along EFTA00125570

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) those lines. MR. a : How were you aware, how are you as the Warden made aware of cameras not working appropriately or any issues with the recording devices? MR. a : The department head would bring it up to me, or the Associate Warden would tell me, you know, we were informed that the cameras aren’t working. MR. a : What is the normal procedure when the cameras go down? MR. a : So, if the cameras go down, then the contact has to look and determine what’s the problem with the cameras. MR. a : Okay. How long would you say that the cameras have been unreliable? MR. a : What do you mean by ida “unreliable MR. a: I’m sorry, how long would y the cameras have been not working? MR. a : They work, but periodically they go down. MR. a : That’s what I meant by it, but they do record. You can, you know, it’s 106 EFTA00125571

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 107 w ~] ive) the quality. Like you go to some places and some agencies where you have that bird vision type camera. That’s not what we have. MR. QJ: Okay. MR. a : I mean, it’s, you can see things, we can do some identifying, but they’re not, you know, and they’re only in certain locations. MS. a : And again, the chain of notification is the staff, the Corrections Officers or Corrections worker notifies the Shift Lieutenant? MR. a : As far as with the camer wu i) MR. a : It depends on -- MS. a : -- not operating. MR. a : -- who’s using the cameras and reviewing the cameras. MR. QJ: | You know, usually our investigative department’s doing it, and they do the check, and if they come in and check and check the cameras and say, stuff’s not recording, then they notify the Comp Shop or the facilities manager and say, hey, we have a EFTA00125572

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 108 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 problem. The cameras are not recording. MS. a : So, does SIS have a room where they can see the cameras in the facility? MR. a : We have a, the camera room is in our communications room behind that area. MS. a : Okay. So, if a camera, if the camera in the SHU was not working -- MR. a : Um-hum. MS. a : -- someone in that camera room would be able to see that there’s no feed from that particular camera? MR. a : It’s not the feed, it’s the recording. You can have, you always have the life feed that you can see what’s going on. it’s the recording of it. MS. a : Um-hum. MR. a : And the recordings typically, and don’t quote me on it, are ona two-week or less timeline. So, what it is is, if it gets to that two-week period, the memory gets full, then it starts re-recording over again. So, that’s how most camera systems work. MS. a : But if for instance a camera in the SHU was down -- EFTA00125573

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LIMITED ies) w fos) wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE 109 MR. MS. omeone in that camera room wot camera was down. MR. a : Or the SIS would check and say, determine hey the recordings are not down you're right, or even the screen. MR. QM: 9 1f we didn’t have a v s problems with the screen to say, hey, there camera. MS. a : And did that happen with the SHU camera? anyone notified that it wasn’t working? MR. a : Well, and this is what I was told after the fact, the S Lieutenant I believe conveyed that to the Communication Officer that there was a problem with the MS. a : Is that Lieutenant | | he? a] in mn When did she know about EFTA00125574

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 110 1 MR. a : I believe she told me she 2 told him on Thursd that she made a WwW sa] 12] ct bh Mh c ie] mw rt b 3) 5 Ht Oo a] b fs wu a a 3 \ \ 6 MS. a : And that would be an oral co a sure. o th 7) i=) a 2 Okay 3 Are you made aware of 4 as well that the cameras 5 are down and not working? t oO a WM: tt would depend. ow, on how bad it was. Lee) 5 9 If it was something that you can run out and 20 fix immediately, you know, it would 21 you know, we can fix it. 22 something that was 23 would have to be notif 24 MR. a : And were you notified of 25 this? EFTA00125575

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LIMITED ies) w co io ioe) co 19 20 OFFICIAL USE 111 MR. a : I was told on Saturday. he i) ow 7 You were told after MR. a : -- the fact I was told. MR. : about, let’s talk VR. a: or policies about giving t phone calls in the Um-hum. What are the regulations inmates unreported phone calls? you can come in and in certain SHU situations, During the int creening, an inmate will get an unmonitored call if they don’t have it set up. MR. MR. re afforded that EFTA00125576

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LIMITED w ~] OFFICIAL USE opportunity. MR. a : How does the inmate telephone account set up? MR. a : Typically he has to go of SHU into a housing unit and go through voice recognition process in order to get up for it. You can’t do it in the Specia Housing Unit. MR. a: And we said earlier Mr. Epstein was never left, was always in Special Housing Unit. MR. a : Was always in the Spec Housing Unit. MR. a : Did he have an oppor to get a telephone account set up? 112 get a out the +f) oO ct 1 that ial tunity MR. a : The problem with Mr. Epstein was he was in the attorney room all day. MR. a : From beginning to end, that’s something that you do during the d because our communications people are the So, we did, and then again, he had to be assigned unit to get that. It’s just to it set up. MR. QJ: Okay. Was Mr. Epste and aytime re. in an have in EFTA00125577

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 113 A 1 allowed phone calls? 2 MR. a : Was he what? 3 MR. a : Was Mr. Epstein allowed Q U 5 MR. a : Yeah. His initial one, he 6 didn’t get his initial one, so we had to give him a call, his initial call when he came in. oo 5 6 oO a a : Then while you’re in the Housing Unit, you’re entitled to one °o th ue] o Q bh wu bh 30 day m 3 MR. a : So, he was entitled to a 30- 4 day phone call. 5 MR. a : And are those normally those? 7 MR. a : Typically in his case, that he didn’t have his monitor set up, the unit t a 3 ie) t=] b ct oO R oO io K oO a 12) ini Q o on x is) = QQ Oo co 9 manager stood there and listened to the call. 21 MS. a : And would that be the Um -- EFTA00125578

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 114 ies) io 19 MR. a : Right, and from what I phone number. was made. But in terms of putting that into a system or a monitoring, EFTA00125579

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 115 1 MR. a : We didn’t, because again, he wasn’t set up. 3 MR. a : Okay. Are you aware of 4 how many phone calls Mr. Epstein’s made while 5 in the Special Housing Unit? oO a I’m not sure. I’m not aware how many made. But I don’t, I know he made co ct a wu rt 2) 5 o | | wo F Um-hum. 10 MR. a : -- that day and I’m aware of 11 the initial one, but I don’t believe he made 2 that many, because I do believe I saw a 3 correspondence that his attorney made to our 4 attorney about him getting a phone call. 15 MR. QR: okay. 16 MR a : That he hadn’t gotten a 7 phone call. So, there’s some correspondence on 8 that. 9 MR. ae : Okay You got any else on 21 MS. EM: vo. 22 MR. QJ: Okay. 23 MR. i: Let’s go over real quick 24 (Indiscernible *01:18:13). 25 MR. ae : We covered this a little EFTA00125580

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE earlier. I tell him that I institution. MR. institution, 116 over it again. notified of Mr. Epstein’s was on Vv was on my Did notify anybody you him know, When at did When I got Lieutenant. Um -- Which -- EFTA00125581

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 117 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. a : Lieutenant |g MR. a : Uh, Lieutenant | | when he came in and my first, you know, any time you have a suicide attempt, you want to make sure your staff are all right and how they’re doing. So, I went to, you know, to check on him to kind of get a debrief on what was going on. He kind of debriefed me on the situation. Um -- MR. a: What did Lieutenant | | tell you? MR. a : So, I asked him, so I basically told him what happened, and he said, he talked to Officer Noel and she said we didn’t do the 3 o’clock count or the 5 o’clock count. And then he said he talked to Noel, Officer Noel, and she said, no he talked to Officer Thomas and that Officer Thomas said, “I messed up. We messed up.” Something about it’s not her fault. But he said he was just talking way off the line. Let me back-track a little. I did make one more call, because I couldn’t get in contact with Lieutenant i. I called up to the Special Housing Unit. EFTA00125582

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 118 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a : Okay. MR. QJ: And I believe Ms. Noel picked up the phone, and I asked her, you know, what was going. And she told me what was going on. But she really couldn’t talk. So, then I came, when I got to the institution, I saw her and I said, “Hey, are you all right? Is everything fine.” And she was like okay. So, I had somebody from our crisis support team that was there talk to her to make sure that she was all right, and then I went to try to find Thomas. She said Thomas had left. So, I said, okay, “Left where? Where did he go?” They said, you know, “He went home. He was distraught.” So, then I get another call saying Thomas was outside, and that he told me, “I’m not answering any questions from you. I want my union”, I said Thomas, “I’m not concerned about what happened. I’m concerned about your well- being. Make sure you’re all right. You've been through a traumatic experience”, and he just kept talking. So, there was a staff member out there. I EFTA00125583

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 119 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 said, try to find him if he’s outside. So, they went outside and they said, you know, he was gone. I didn’t see Ms. Noel, but I told them to get a memorandum from her on what happened. They told me said she wasn’t feeling well and she had to talk to her Union rep. So, and I said, “You know what, let them go. We'll get back with them or somebody will get back with them.” And they left. And we just started the process of collecting and preserving. MS. a : Have Noel or Thomas been in to work since then? MR. a: No. Noel, I sent some support staff on Sunday to go talk to them. Today, the mother of Thomas’ child, she works at the institution but they’re not together, said, “Hey, he was with her all weekend but she can’t get in contact with him.” I sent her and a Lieutenant to go over to his house to find out if he’s okay. He called me a little irate saying, “You know, you’re sending people to my house. You know, I was sleeping.” I said, “I’m checking on your well-being”, EFTA00125584

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 120 w ~] wo 10 11 you know. And then I didn’t know, and I asked him, I said, “Did you call in for work today?” And he said, “Yes, I did.” And he said, “He was sleeping and he was tired.” And I said, “Well I’m just checking on your well-being and just seeing how you are”, and I left it at that. MS. a : That was this morning? MR. a : That was this morning. MS. a : So, he basically called in sick today? MR. a : He called in sick today. ’s on days off Monday and Tuesday. She MR. a : I’m going to assign both of them with no inmate contact, so they’re going to be away from inmates and assigned on the outside (Indiscernible *01:23:09). MS. a: And then Lieutenant i. MR. QJ: | And then that’s basically what Lieutenant || told me, and I told him, “Write a memorandum on what was said”, and he wrote the memorandum and he submitted it. MS. a : Has he been in to work since Saturday? EFTA00125585

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 121 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a : Yes, he did. Actually he stayed there late on Saturday. He basically worked a double, and then he came back and worked during the day on it. So, he hasn’t taken any time off. MS. a: Is he there now? MR. a : He’s there. He’s there today, so he’s working here. MS. QJ: ana -- MR. a : Oh, and I do have an addition. And I did ask him, you know, when he got there what happened, and he says, he doesn’t know what the condition was because when Thomas called for the emergency medical, he opened the door and took him down himself and started life-saving measures. MS. a : So, Epstein was hanging from the door? MR. a : We don’t know what he was doing because Thomas was the first one there, and when responding staff came, he was already there doing compressions and life-saving measures. So, I definitively can’t say where, was he hanging? What position he was or not because nobody knows when they responded, so. EFTA00125586

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 122 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a : What is the policy regarding if an Officer or staff member sees an inmate in that situation? MR. a: Okay. And I won’t want to quote this is a policy thing, but you call for assistance and you wait for assistance to come because you don’t know if that’s a ploy. So, if you go in there as one person, and you know, when somebody’s hanging, that’s dead. That is dead weight. So, you go in there, you don’t know if it’s a ploy. So, you go in there and get overpowered, guess what? Now that individual has the cell door keys for every key on that range, and that could be a recipe for disaster. So, it might sound inhumane that, you know, we have to wait because the individual on the grill can’t come down range either because if they get overpowered, guess what, we’ve lost a whole unit. And that’s the most secure unit in the institution. So, she has to stay outside with the keys on the grill because there are two different keys. They don’t mix. And we wait for responding staff to come in and perform, you EFTA00125587

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LIMITED 1 Oo w oO oo 95 OFFICIAL 12 or anything. ain | and Captain work now? i) o And I need to, and I’m not might’ secretary. MS. a : a. okay. And Lieutenant is it a: EFTA00125588

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LIMITED ies) co io ioe) co OFFICIAL midnigh USE t MR. (Indisc She worked, apparentl y she at night and ; | relieved her early. it) o on wv Q i ri k b- ay o U s oO i] Cc ck to Do you want Okay. > bac one-on-one interactions night. to fu k to, with EFTA00125589

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 125 ies) w ~] ive) Epstein? MR. a : Let’s see, I had one, I saw him by the attorney visit, small conversation. Another one I saw him when I was making rounds on the unit when he had first gotten into the cell with a. He was going into the shower. asked him, “How was everything going.” He said, “I’m good. I’m fine.” And then a. I said, “How’s he doing?” | | was like, “I want to go back to a unit.” So, you know, was just that type of conversation while making rounds. MR. a : Okay. Thank you. MR. a : Okay. MR. a : And did you want just step outside? MR. i: Do you mind if we take a ws =] n rt MR. QJ: = No, I have no problem. MR. QJ: it is 12:23. We're pausing the interview. We’re resuming the interview at this time. It is 12:29 in the afternoon. MS. QM: okay. So, the first EFTA00125590

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE 126 U question is, I just want to make sure we have MS. a : The Lieutenant or the MR. a : Well, it was Captain ny text messages any communications MR. ae : Well when I had gave the direction, it was given verbally in a meeting. MS. FY : Um-hum. MR. a : I didn’t send emails had a direct conversation. But for instance, EFTA00125591

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LIMITED ies) co io ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 27 the email that you sent listing here are the three possibilities for -- MS. a : -- who’s -- mS. QJ: -- the best. MR. a : Yeah. If you want that -- MR. a : I’m sure this will inevitably happen, and it’s a report for this. Has that already been drafted? Is that a it) MR. a : Will there be an incident report regarding the discovery of Jeffr om MR. a : It’s called a report of incident, a 583. So, we did that EFTA00125592

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) co No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 12% co MR. a : -- and moving forward with PY Do you know who drafted MR. a : The SIS Lieutenant does it. MR. a : And then I review it because it’s ultimately sent from me. It’s a repo KR rt Ph i?) wR. GR: | om-hun. MR. a : -- to our central office. c So, MR. a : Just for terminology to make And it’s just a brief you know, he made rounds. MR. EJ: | Um-hun. He was unresponsi . Life- @ saving measures were initiated. Taken to the outside hospital and then he was pronounced deceased at that time. And then we just move EFTA00125593

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 129 w ~] wo 10 11 MR. a : Just a couple of more -- MR. a : Um-hum. MR. a : -- housekeeping stuff just to say, have you had any contact with the press regarding this? MR. QJ: No, I have not. MR. Es : Has any press contacted you directly? MR. a : No, they have not. MR. a : Have you directed any staff to destroy anything? MR. a : No, I have not. MR. a : What directions have you given the staff in terms of preserving things? MR. a : So, initially when we came, when I got in, I told the Captain, get all the log books up there, the rounds, anything pertaining to get it and anything we can think of that might be needed. And it’s given to the SIS. It’s in the SIS office with the SIS Lieutenant. So, told them to preserve it, and whoever needed it, I know the IG has come by. They’ve taken some stuff. But basically preserve everything that might be needed to be EFTA00125594

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) nN ive) oO co 23 OFFICIAL USE 130 preserved. And then if any requests come, you know, we’ll go and get it and preserve it. MR. a : Are you aware of any ts missing from his cell? Are you aware ything peculiar occurring since his discovered? MR. a : You mean missing from his MR. a : I didn’t observe the cell, don't know what’s in -- MR. a : Were you ever notified of after his body was discovered, have you notified of any peculiarities or anything odd? stuck out in your mind MR. a : As far as what would’ve been EFTA00125595

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 131 1 in his cell, or? 3 i Anything in general as it 3 to him? 4 can think of. I 5 t we’re still 7 MR. c a) H ct if] 3 ) + 7 hp 3 te} fe] oh o @ QO wu c uo @ H t Ww = c be Q ion ci) | | 15 MR. nsidered odd. Were 16 you aware of him having any contraband in his 17 cell? i) 18 MR. Contraband? its) MR. Well -- ho a MR. QJ: anything -- a: a i) b MR. ho 2 have? Any unapproved things in his cell? 23 MR. ae: ae: 25 MR. he would’ve recei EFTA00125596

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 132 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) an incident report. MR. a : Okay. MR. a : And the only incident report he had was, I guess it was the cloth that was found on the initial one, but then our Disciplinary Hearing Officer concluded that we couldn’t’ sustain any charges on him because it was inconclusive -- MR. a : -- with it, but that’s -- MR. a : Okay. And were you aware of him having any enemies or anything, or being a specific target by anybody? MR. QJ: «9 where? MR. a : In the institution? MR. a : No. I mean no one’s came to me specifically saying, you know, “He’s my eo) enemy”, or all that, so I don’t, you know. MR. ae : Was he not to be, not to be celled with anybody because of any problems that he would have, or -- MR. a : I mean. MR. a : Let me rephrase that a little. Were you aware of any other inmates who had targeted him specifically? EFTA00125597

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE Oo I’m showinc c t o x oo a : And they’r the time tt 19 MS. 20 write initial it? that doing the 22 MR. QJ: 9 who did it. 24 Lieutenant signs it at the end of the Ww EFTA00125598

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 134 1 it. MR. a : This is not complete for the 4 simple fact that, you know, with the emergency ies) w coming, I had them take it and preserv 6 So, it was part of the 7 that’s probably why it co c ‘go rt is) oo is) ie] a 5 ) oO Ww ws > oF b fs] a signature or f o = 7 MR. ae : Whoever and I’m not sure, but if it was the Les] on @ be pb. 0) o 9 morning watch Lieutenant, it would be 20 Lieutenant ae . s all the N us a7) H nt ~~ I 3 aa rt a p ct A i) 25 MR. ae : Great. That’s it. The EFTA00125599

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 135 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 time is now 12:35. Warden, we really appreciate your time. MR. a : Okay. MR. a: And the interview is completed, oh actually before we do that. Is there anything that you would like to tell us? Any statements that you would like to make? Anything you think we should know about the incident in general? Just wanted to give you an opportunity if there’s anything that you think we should know that we haven’t discussed. MR. a : I can’t think of anything else. But I mean, as it comes along, I’11l pass it on to the IG. Anything I get or any information. MR. a : Thank you. MR. a : Okay. EFTA00125600

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