10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL APRIL 7, 2022 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 EFTA00125203

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

1 oO wo oO co OR GENERAL EFTA00125204

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 3 1 MR. a : This is Special Agent 2 HR. Soday is April 7, 2022. The 3 time is 10:21 a.m. The recorder is now on. 4 My name is a. I’m a Special 5 Agent with the U.S. Department of Justice, 6 Office of the Inspector General, New York Field 7 Office. These are my credentials. 8 MR. es : I'm going to -. Man. 9 MR. a : This interview with 10 Federal Bureau of Prisons employee, | 11 a. is being conducted as part of an 2 official U.S. Department of Justice, Office of 3 the Inspector General investigation. Today’s 4 date is April 7, 2022. The time is 10:22 a.m. 15 This interview is being conducted at the 16 Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector 7 General, New York Field Office. Also present 8 are DOJ/OIG Assistant Special Agent-in-Charge, 9 | and via phone is DOJ/OIG 20 Assistant Special Agent-in-Charge, [yy 21 a. 22 This interview will be recorded by me, 23 Special Agent | ti‘ Could everyone 24 please identify themselves for the record and 25 spell your last name. To start again, I am EFTA00125205

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ive) w wo ive) fea] oo its) OFFICIAL USE 4 MR. a : Assistant Special Agent-in- Technician. Last name, nt-in- investigation ts surrounding the death of inmate Epstein, and you Will you agree to a voluntary interview with Information on a “You are EFTA00125206

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 being asked to provide information as part of an investigation being conducted by the OIG. This investigation is being conducted pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended. This investigation pertains to job performance failure and security failure. This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not have to answer any questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you choose not to answer any questions. Any statement you furnish may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceedings or agency disciplinary proceedings or both.” The waiver states, “I understand the warnings and assurances stated above and I am willing to make a statement and answer questions. No promises or threats have been made to me and no pressure or coercion of any kind has been used against me.” This is the same form we’ve provided you before. MR. a : Yes. MR. a: Please review it. If you understand, on the right side, please print your name and sign your name. If you understand and agree -- EFTA00125207

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

a LIMITED OFFICIAL USE i -- sign and p WwW a) I will sign and print. understand the uw rh oO 4 3 wo tial Agent. And t ive) a) of witne gnature 15 MR. fea] interview, I would like to place you under 17 oath. Mr. a. can you please raise your 18 right hand? Do you swear to tell the truth and 19 nothing but the truth during this interview? 21 M your right hand down. Please let me know if 23 you don’t understand any questions and I’ll try 24 to repeat it or try EFTA00125208

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w fos) ive) oo OFFICIAL USE MR. Thank taking the time to meet with us you. a few follow-up questions. MR. Mm-hmm. You met wi to Before we snt status an ele Com And this is -o that, an th us begin, the with ctronics Tech. Same your permanent EFTA00125209

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE o 1 typical work schedule? Ww N ue] 3 5 Monday through Friday? 6 MR. a : Monday through Friday. 7 During that time, I think I was working 8 overtime because we started the camera project. The camera project is? wo Fs 1 this got 11 started, we were upgrading the cameras in the 2 McC. So, my schedule changed, and I was 3 working, like, ten or 12 hours a day during 4 this time. 5 MR. QJ: so, Monday through Friday, 16 normal schedule would be 6:00 a.m. to 2:00 7 p.m. ? 8 MR Yes. So, that would be about Ye 22 MR. a : So. if you’re working ten ts) 23 to 12, that means you were working to, what, 24 about 4:00 p.m., 6:00 p.m.? EFTA00125210

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ~] oO 10 11 wo MR. Ikay. And what about on Oo the weekends? MR. : I was working a little bit of overtime there during that time, too. MR. Okay. And is that something you needed prior approval for, or -? MR. Yes. Well, they knew what was going on, so I got pretty much prior approval. If I showed up, I showed up. If it didn’t, they didn’t really -. Because the project was going on. I have a life, too. I can’t just be working at the prison all the time, so they understood if I didn’t show up or didn’t come in for overtime. Because my regular schedule is Monday through Friday, 6:00 to 2:00. MR. a : Okay. And as needed, you would come in, too? MR. MR. QM: |S asac BL, did you have anything in regards to his schedule? K 0) o MR. a: I did not. Thanks. MR. a : No problem. I’m going to move on. In our previous interview, you mentioned EFTA00125211

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w fos) ive) oo you had recalled having a conversation with SIS Lieutenant a. You remember her, right? MR. a : Thursday, August 8th, you had a conve tion with her about cameras not working inside the MR. a : Thursday or Friday. MR. a : Thursday, Do you recall that? OFFICIAL USE 10 , you recall on Friday. ersation with? MR. a : Lieutenant P| and that’s when I spoke to a. She’s the Associate Warden. That’s when they told me that the cameras were down, on that Friday. MR. QM: son that Frid little bit. So, working on Friday, August 93th. EFTA00125212

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 11 1 actually working -- off Ww 5 \ \ its] 7 0 = ow n on August wi aw August 9th. 6 MR. a : Friday, August 93th. She 7 was working on Thursday, gust 8th. 9 MR. a : According to the schedule, 10 she was working Thursday, August 8th, and the 1 conversation that she told us about happened on N \ a) a 1) ia i) Q ry] I b 7) | rt a fu rt b rt = nT] ue} re} @ 5 i) jon 3) 5 =) Za oc K a] jon nT] hed Ww i t ugust 8th, Associate Warden || also stated is] fea] Thursday. MR. a : I’m not too sure because 9 everything was jumbled in. 21 what the issue was wit 22 MR. a : They said they wasn’t recording. 25 you remember? Was oo ] No ox) EFTA00125213

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 12 w ~] ive) camera? MR. a: They couldn’t pull video for whatever reason. They couldn’t extract video. They were looking for video for something and they couldn’t find it. MR. So, it wasn’t recording, and they couldn’t pull any video? MR. Yes. MR. : Do you remember if there were any cameras -? So, when they were trying to pull video, where were they trying to pull video from? MR. a : I have no idea. I don’t really remember what they were trying to pull video from, or why. MR. a : Which office were you guys in? MR. a: Probably on the second floor by the - maybe the SIS Office, or it was in the Video Room. MR. QJ: «411 by the -. What’s the difference? MR. a: The Video Room is where they have the monitors and the SIS Office is right down the hallway, where the SIS Office EFTA00125214

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ~] wo 10 11 OFFICIAL USE would be. MR. standing there trying to to pull video, MR. rt I 0) ifs re] monitors. There’s a that has been in and really working proper There’s been issues. that. vn. a: little further? Video Room or the SIS MR. a: happened, tell me, if you recal a: multiple monitors, MR. it That’s Room. where t so based on recollection, Okay. And do you remember help them pull video? Yes. when And you were trying do you remember looking up at reens and seeing any blank screens? In the SIS Shop? In the SIS Shop, or on the lot of monitors. Oh, the SIS, that was, out forever. That was not ly even when I got there. There was issues with Can you explain that a Okay. So, was it in the Shop? I’m not sure where this if you can 1 where this happened? If I was looking at probably was in the Video hey have -. The live feed EFTA00125215

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL US w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 goes to the video matrix, and then it’s split, and it goes to all the other cameras. MR. a : So, you’re saying if it’s in the SIS Shop, and there was issues in the MR. QJ: «No, if it was in the sis Shop, that’s the network. They’re on the computer and they’re trying to pull video. If they’ re in the Video Room, it’s the live feed that’s going to the cameras. MR. QM: Okay. MR. a: And it’s inputted on the screen. It’s split going to the recorder, and it’s split on the output going to the actual screens. Yeah. MR. a : So, which ones had issues where you couldn’t see anything? MR. a: I don’t know. Because it was a lot of stuff not working at that time. can’t really -. MR. a : Do you remember any screens being black, like blanked out with X's on them, at that point? MR. a: I don’t know. It was - that room was always a mess when I got there, 14 I EFTA00125216

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 15 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 as far as stuff not working or working. MR. a : But you don’t remember them, Lieutenant | or a. mentioning, hey, listen these screens are blank. There’s X's on them, they’re not working. You just mentioned that - just on topic - you just mentioned that there were always issues. MR. a: Yes, there were always issues. Sometimes, I would go in there and stuff was working. Sometimes, I’d go in there, stuff was not working. Exactly what was working or not working, I’m not too sure of. MR. a : So, which one was it? Just to clarify. I missed that. Which one was it that wasn’t working -- MR. a : So, what -. MR. a : -- the SIS or the Video MR. a: It would be the Video Room. It wouldn’t be in SIS, because -. Okay, the Video Room is the live feed coming from the analog matrix onto the actual screens. Some of the cables got disconnected because there was issues. And then SIS, that would be all of the cameras in the institution. They would be EFTA00125217

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w fos) ive) oo OFFICIAL USE 16 coming from the network. They’d be trying to pull video from the actual recorders. MR. ae : So that’s where basically MR. QM: | You log in and you try to MR. a : Yes, pull video. MR. a : -- and review video. but the other part, MR. a : That’s just live -- MR. a : -- that’s just live wire, live wired. oO if the live wires it would be a bla is it possible this conversation might have taken place with Lieutenant FY inside tt deo Monitor EFTA00125218

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 17 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Room? If she recalls that there was -- MR. a: Yeah, if there were screens -- MR. a : -- screens that -. MR. a: -- that’s in the Video MR. a : Black screens, okay. So, do you recall her mentioning on August 8th - by any chance, do you recall? I know it’s been a couple years -- MR. a : -- it’s hard to remember, but do you recall her mentioning anything about, hey, there’s blank screens, access that needs to be fixed? MR. a : I was working on that since I got there. I was still working on that, until I was leaving, so -. It was an ongoing issue I knew about. But the main thing was, even if the screens were blank, that everything would be recorded, going to the recorders. Like, the live view in the Video Room, that’s extra. But if you could pull video from the recorders, that’s the main thing I was worried about. I wasn’t really worried EFTA00125219

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 18 1 about the live view. 2 MR. Okay. 3 MR. That’s something I would 4 have to worry about later. But the main thing 5 was to make sure the cameras are recording in 6 the institution. 7 MR. a : Okay. And so, this 8 happened, well based on the fact that this 9 happened on Thursday, August 8th, do you recall 10 coming in August 9th fixing anything? On 11 August 9th? 2 MR. a : I’m pretty sure I did. I 3 must have followed up. Because I was going to 4 come back Saturday to do something, so I know 15 on Friday, that’s when I went back to the room. 16 MR. a : Okay. I’m going to show 7 you a memo. There’s a memo dated August 10th, 8 from T. a. SIS Lieutenant. That would be 9 Tijuana a. 20 MR. QM: «Yeah. 21 MR. to J. QR, captain. 22 MR. a : Mm-hmm. 23 MR. a : Subject was “NiceVision “” And for the record, I’m going 25 to read it, and then I’1ll show it to you. EFTA00125220

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 19 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a : Okay. MR. a : “On August 8, 2019, at approximately 3:45 p.m., while reviewing the Nice Camera System, I attempted to recover video footage from the Unit 5 South Housing Unit. At this time, I was unable to recover any previous recordings from the camera, this prompting me to review all of the cameras. None of the cameras on the system were able to record. Therefore, I called the communication technician fr via radio.” That would be you, right? MR. a : Yes. MR. QJ: Okay. 9 “At: approximately 4:00 p.m., | responded to the third floor Monitoring Room to check the cameras and notified me that the cameras were not recording and there was no way to retrieve any video. | stated he fixed the camera system on Friday, August 9, 2019, when he arrived to work.” So, it looks like the memo was written on August 10th and this is in regards to a conversation she had with you on August 8, 2019, and at the end, she stated that you told EFTA00125221

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 20 1 her on August 9th, told her on August 10th 2 that, when you came into work on August 9th, Ww he is) = Hh + * oO ion ct J o ie) wu 3 i) K wu Bb it) rt) c i) t o ke fe) c K o ie] wu + bh No. (Indiscernible wi aw n . 7 So, I was working after 3:45. So, I was 8 on overtime that day she called me? te) 7] It might have been. i=) ive) Read through it for t fon) he i) c K ie) oO ra al Lee) 5 3 rt approximately 3:45 I attempted to recover 20 -. At the time I was -. No ox) i EFTA00125222

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 21 w ~] oO 10 11 your recollection? MR. No. MR. So, you don’t recall fixing anything? MR. a: I might have been looking at something, but I have to make sure that it’s fixed, like, before I say, hey, you can pull video and I have to pull video myself. MR. a : But she said there’s a possibility that, when you came in on the 9th, you might have fixed the issues with the blank screens. MR. a : Okay. MR. a : And then, you might have came back in on August 10th, which would be that Saturday, to fix the recording issue. Do you think that might be accurate? MR. a: No. That doesn’t really make any sense to me, either. MR. QM: Okay. Do you recall if - I remember we spoke about this before, I don't know if your memory hasn’t recollected any of it - but about you not being able to access the SIS Shop because no one was in the SIS Shop. MR. a: Yeah, and I don’t have the EFTA00125223

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 22 I didn’t have access to ies) Fs) 4 get in the room. was there w i tw o ie] w Cc a o 5 oO 3 oO 7 MR. a : Yes, nobody was -. Yes. K 8 MR. a : And normally, there would 9 be somebody monitoring the phones, right? 10 MR. a : Yes, there should be a 1 phone monitor, if somebody was there, unless 2 they got pulled to work a different post. MR. a : Yeah. 4 MR. a : But they’re supposed to be 5 - that’s suppos MR. a : And that Friday, nobody was there? On August 9th, I think they had ive) 3 fea] Les] k uy) Fh rt 1) oy] K be ke 3) K ifs) is) 5 ci) rt > pe 5 W ct oO ct 7 ul] rt iv) Fh Hh i) a rt | I No ox) wu > bp bt b ct te rt Oo Q ii) rt Oo c p. 5 ct 2) ct a o BK oO ie) 3 | io! Oo i oO Cc a =] oO 24 if Captain , had his own set of keys for B EFTA00125224

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w fos) ite) ive) oo OFFICIAL USE 23 MR. MR. 7) i) I wu ad w ct oO Hh H is) =} MR. Yeah. The Captain I think, or the in that room. I’m not too ial e. MR. | had her own MR. nh * 3 Oo n H w | a Bp iu) c ct om Ss wu o rt oO kK K oO wu a | | x -- but I think the Captain in the room. I’m not too ct fe) I ct 3 a) 3) a behind some kind of box in the 0) kK 7) wu lad 1) no i) el rt contro room. a rything is kept hnician’s, their And ver is in the Video Room, it’s behind glass. Captain have his own EFTA00125225

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 24 1 MR. a : That’s not behind glass? No. I don’t know how they 3 do the Captain’s. I know the SIS Shop, that 4 was the main key and if I tried to get in, it 5 was behind glass, to get in the room. 6 MR. a : Do you recall approaching 7 Captain a. asking him for access to that 8 room on 9th? wo Fs I don’t remember. Because I know, 11 based on Captain a. Captain | was in 2 the facility until about 8:00 p.m. on that 3 Friday night, August 9th? He worked until about 4 8:00 p.m. 5 MR. a : Hmm. I didn’t know that. So, but t oO a u don’t recall ever seeing him, or talking to him, or asking oo for access to that room to fix the cameras? 9 MR. a : No. I don’t remember. 20 Maybe I did, maybe I didn’t. I don’t - that’s 21 -. I don’t really -. 23 could have asked Captain a. he could have But if needed, you 24 let you in? 25 MR. a : He would have locked the - EFTA00125226

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 25 3 anything on that topic? 4 MR. a: Yeah, in regard to the memo. 5 Mr. QR, 1 know that time on August 8th, 6 that seems way off based on what you had told 7 | and Dennis before, and -- Mm-hmm. -- frankly, what | had that we wanted to find te] fos) OD Oo ct ie) pa Q c H | a oO ay oO he r o t 5 W 2 fixed the camera “” 3 when he arrived to work. 4 MR. ER: | Mn-pm.. 5 MR. a : So, that’s the main thing wanted to confirm. 7 MR. QJ: «st don’t think I did that. 8 MR. a: Yeah, because the last time, I fon) 0) J. c n ct 9 know our guys explored pretty in depth what 20 happened on August 9th. 22 MR. aa: That was that Friday where it sounds like -- No ox) 25 MR. a: -- you got EFTA00125227

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2 fen) 1 go repair the thing. and just couldn’t get in 2 because no one was there, or the phone monitor 3 was leaving. So, we were surprised to see that 4 there was a statement that you may have told 5 someone that you had repaired it on August 9th. 6 So, we just wanted to confirm whether or not 7 you had told someone, specifically Lieutenant 8 a. that you had repaired that system on 9 August 9t 10 MR. a : I don’t believe so, no. 11 Because I was still working on it so -- 2 MR. QJ: 9 okay. MR. ae : -- I couldn’t do it. 4 MR. aa: Very good. Thank you, sir, and that is all I have on that J, thanks. 16 MR. a : Thank you. Just ive) w w OT 7 normal, can you initial and date it? You’re 8 not attesting to the accuracy, it’s just a 9 document that we showed you. 20 MR. SR: aon. 21 MR. a : Today’s the 7th. 22 MR. QJ: it’s that 23 MR. a : Oh, today is four -- u reviewed it. EFTA00125228

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w fos) ite) ive) oo OFFICIAL USE 27 MR. topic. MR. You mentioned, previous and even now, that there was a camera upgrade going on during that time. MR. MR. se upgrade it was suppo be NiceVision, but we just ended up doing pre y much everything inhouse becaus taking too long. MR. I’m going to you a contract. n We can move on to the next all if there was EFTA00125229

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 28 1 going to read this out because it’s -- 2 MR. a: It’s very 3 *00:18:26). (Indiscernible 4 MR. a : This states the - the 5 contract states up top - it says, MCC New York. 6 And the contract number is GS-O7F-, as in 7 Frank, 0322T, as in Tom. The award effective 8 date is 9/21/2018. And the order number is 9 15B-, as in boy, NYM-, as in Mary, 18F-, as in 10 Frank, T-, as in Tom, P-, as in Peter, 120150. 11 And the requisition number is 1064-18. 12 Now, that’s the document you were 13 reviewing, and you believe that is the camera 14 upgrade? 15 MR. QJ: | the initial, probably the 16 initial one, yes. 17 MR. a : When you say initial? 18 Were there changes? 19 MR. a: Yeah, because they had a 20 contract. This was the original contract, as 21 far as upgrade goes, and then, like a year 22 later, there was another bid that we put in for 23 more upgrades. 24 wR. QM: okay. 25 MR. a: But this was the original. EFTA00125230

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

1 oO wo oO oo 22 person I would talk to FP is the brains wouldn’t talk to || ] seing it. The main person I MR. MR. him every qu befo MR. Wh Who was the point Who was EFTA00125231

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED oO ive) oO oo OFFICIAL USE 30 that was. Or the General was Dy 5 a rt ios o y communicated in regards tT fu b a ct i= rt] + n ct oO 3) that he t recall the materials arriving -- MR. a] | | oO RK a] K Oo a] ct fu t if) t+ ¢ fh Ph MR. don’t think 3 = w o fe] Fh + Pp i] That would be the Facility EFTA00125232

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED oO wo ive) fea] oo wo OFFICIAL USE 31 MR. ae : And he never spoke with -- thing -. a while, going on? EFTA00125233

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w fos) wo ive) oo OFFICIAL USE 32 MR. a : I don’t know. don’t. It’s around this time, like, August or Honestly, I MR. a : And you mentioned it MR. a : Nice or -. MR. a : -- the Nice, NiceVision? Nic Do you recall - and this was placed in § NiceVision, all that stuff in that order was n all the MR. a : It was coming in piece-by- EFTA00125234

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. a : Piece-by-piece. It wasn’t delivered wo ot) ies) Fs) 4 together? 5 MR. QJ: tt might have been, but 6 the warehouse was, like, a mess. told me I had packages, I would go and get fos) m te) 7] So, what do you 10 recall, what came in first? s far a be a Me] what came in, 2 mainly the recorder 3) and the new rack, and ive) probably the UPS. 5 MR. a : The UPS and the rack that the recorders would go in. 7 MR. QJ: 811 cight. So, the terminology goes over my head. 20 hardware that the UPS would go in, and the Ww recorders, and what else? fea] oo Y, so just the metal wo 21 recorders. 22 MR. a : So, based on, if you could that and tell us No ox) c 18) oO wu rt you’re thinking, 24 and off of the page number four. it would be EFTA00125235

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) Wo 4 the hard drives would come in. That’s the line item two would come in. The decoders would come in. So, that’s line item five. AMS would come in, line item six. Line item seven would come in. Oh not - yeah. Line item seven would come in. Cameras never came in. Line item ten would come in. And the wall mount never came in, and a media cabinet. So, that line item 14, yeah. MR. a : So, they call came in around when do you think? MR. a: I’m not too sure. MR. a : You think soon after the order was placed, or -? MR. a: It was a little while because there was stuff on backorder, so it wasn’t, like, right away. MR. QM: so, was it in 2018, '19? MR. a : Probably in the early part of 2019 MR. a : Early part of 2019? MR. QJ: | Yeah. MR. a : All right. I’m going to show you an email. This email - I’m going to go back - it looks like it’s an email from you EFTA00125236

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED 1 oO oO) OFFICIAL U MR. : n-. — -- MR. SR: eon. MR. a : -- at SigNetinc.com. following up on the Most of it on ” tracking numbers are below. EFTA00125237

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ive) w wo ive) fea] oo its) OFFICIAL USE ynded back MR. ae : Like, he with tracking numbers for 2018. i Oo *) D a t > w 3 D ra ; Rk v ? oO f b @ 7 »s MR. a : I don’t remember wher that email look familiar? c MR. a : Yes. This email lo familiar. it a) 5 A MR. the new contact. He came in after the Epstein thing. And what’s the Lo a EFTA00125238

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ies) w ~] wo i=) 11 ive) communication about the PTC cameras? Oh, those are outside Okay. Fs) Those didn’t really have nothing to do with the recorders or anything. Those are, like, secondary. They had nothing to do with the recording. Again, the recorders a) But you think - when he s in 2018 - you think those are the sion recorders and the decoders and all that mentioned over here? MR. QM: ves. MR. a : You think those were delivered - based on i email - it w delivered in the -. MR. a : In the end of November, during the holidays, so I probably didn’t get wu n it until maybe January, the first week of January. MR. a : Okay. Where do you think these items were stored? Once they got delivered? MR. a : They were - and I mean J Wo EFTA00125239

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE Wo co 1 some of it got misplaced because nobody knew N at] rt } ct = wu wv . so it went to Building Four, the ies) warehouse. 4 MR. a : Where’s that? MR. QM: that’s in Brooklyn. It’s w oe K wu H oy wo i=) 1 MR. a : What about the other went over. ive) Fs) I think there was a time, 4 Like, maybe this was the other order that the 5 decoders got sent there. Something got 16 and nobody knew 7 sent it to 8 The warehouse. The warehouse? res. It was shipped to the bk No ox) EFTA00125240

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 39 1 MR. a : Do you know who signed off 2 on these? 3 MR. SR: No. 4 MR. a : Okay. But someone 5 received them and somehow, it ended up in 6 Building Four? 7 MR. a : Yes. 8 MR. a : Okay. And what about - 9 you said that’s some of them - what about the 10 other items? Was there anything housed at the 11 MCC? 2 MR. QM: Yeah. =I had the 3 recorders, and I had the rack. I had it stored 4 downstairs or in another room. I remember, 15 because it was important, so I made sure when I 16 came in, I put it in MCC. 7 MR. QJ: Ss Where? 8 MR. a : So, we didn’t have to go 9 look for it. It might have been in the 30 20 Percent Room or in my Video Room, but I think 21 it was in the 30 Percent Room. 22 MR. QJ: What’s the 30 Percent 23 Room? 24 MR. a : It’s, right before you go 25 to the loading dock, there’s like a Ready Room EFTA00125241

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 40 1 that we get stuff in, and there was part of the 2 Lock Shop. So, if I had storage, or didn’t 3 have space for it, I would ask the Lock Shop, 4 hey, can I put this in your room because I 5 don’t have space. 6 MR. a : And it’s locked up, it’s secured? 8 MR. a: Yes, secured. Yeah. ~] 9 They’ re the only ones with a key. Nobody else 10 could get in there. 11 MR. a: So, we mentioned 12 everything that’s on there, pretty much all the 3 NiceVision equipment, except for the cameras. 14 MR. GE: on. 15 MR. a : What happened to the 16 cameras? 17 MR. a: That’s what happened. I 8 think the cameras went to Building Four. I was 9 looking for it, and that’s what ended up at 20 Building Four and maybe some decoders. 21 MR. a : So, you think all, but 22 that’s - you mentioned right now that all the 23 NiceVision equipment ended up there. 24 MR. : aon. 25 MR. a : So, you think the cameras EFTA00125242

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 also got shipped? MR. a: Yes. Well, they might have got shipped, but nobody told me. Whenever they came in, they came in. I’m not too sure. MR. a : You're not sure what happened to the cameras? MR. QM: )sYeah. MR. a : Do you believe the cameras got shipped or no? MR. a: Yeah, they got shipped, but they ended up going to Building Four. Whenever they came in because I remember looking for them and that was one of the things, I had to figure out what happened to the actual - because we were going to network cameras - so I had to figure out where they were at. And they weren’t at the rear gate. MR. a : Okay. When do you recall looking for them? MR. BMJ: don’t really remember. This is probably around the same time I probably sent this email. I was trying to figure out where everything was at. MR. a : The cameras. So, do you think the cameras went to Building Eight -- 41 EFTA00125243

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ive) w wo ive) fea] oo its) OFFICIAL USE 42 MR. a : -- around this time or think the i cameras got shipped Bs ie 0) Q ie] K Q 0) K o) 1] 3 Q The 0) hing fc Q fu me right away. 5 do you think the Q oy] 3 fi] K ny] 7 0 u] 3 iu) ct 7 bp un fs] 0 a rT on D k , No, not N November 19th, that’s when So, November 2019, after EFTA00125244

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 43 wi ~] 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a : Yes, after Epstein. MR. a : Do you know why there was such a big delay and why MR. a : Because, like, when you order cameras, if you’re going to order, like, 300 cameras there’s usually a backlog of six months or eight months. It’s not going to be something you’re going to get right away from a vendor. MR. a : Was there any other reason why the cameras were not shipped? MR. a: Oh, and there may be a signature or something. Because I wasn’t in charge, so I couldn’t really sign for anything. That was a part of the problem. So, when stuff was getting ordered. MR. a : Was there ever communication between MCC, were you able to recall any communication between MCC or yourself and SigNet, asking SigNet not to ship the cameras? MR. a : No. I would never tell them not to ship the cameras. No. MR. a : So, we’re going to show you an email. This email is from you dated EFTA00125245

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED oO wo ive) fea] oo wo OFFICIAL USE 44 New York the initial a from a . The initial morning. There discrepancy with 135 dome cameras. MR. FY : Mm-hmm. MR. a : “The propo M62WRBY. was Wycon hardware list for the BOP.” 98 a.m., i. this issue is the model number changed because EFTA00125246

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 45 1 had us wait to order the cameras. Hmm. “The cameras received ies) Fs) fw ial o part of the replacement model.” w a foal a Hmm. “My recommendation, with 7 the rush to get all this installed, would be to 8 open a magic ticket and request it be added to 9 the approved list. Hmm. 11 MR. a: The biggest issue we have 2 right now is that 90 percent of the cameras on 3 the approved list are EOL.” Take a look at 4 this and let me know if you recognize that 5 email. t oO a Lee) 5 oO o fw R- 9 MR But I’m not in charge of 20 saying you can’t send cameras, so. 21 MR. a : But that says you the 22 statement up top from | is - it clearly 23 states that you told him to hold off on 24 ordering and sending the cameras. 25 MR. a : Hold on. No, we’re trying EFTA00125247

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 46 10 11 12 13 14 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 to figure -. Not hold off, but we have to make sure that - anything we install on the BOP network - we have to make sure that it’s approved on the list as far as for (Indiscernible *00:31:29) and everything else. We can’t just order anything and get it installed. So, if the original part number was for these cameras, they would have to ship these cameras. And if the part number changed before they send it to us, they have to notify if the part number changed, then we have to get it approved through Computer Services before we install them. We can’t just install anything on the network. MR. a : Okay. Just to give you an understanding. We spoke with FY -- MR. a: Mm-hmm. MR. a : -- and one of the things that [MMI =01¢ us is they send you all that stuff, and in his communication with you, you advised him not to ship the cameras -—- MR. a: Cameras. MR. a : -- because there’s no where to house the cameras. EFTA00125248

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w fos) wo ive) fee) OFFICIAL USE Yeah, that was the bigges MR. ae : So, there’s no way to you told him not to ship w it) the cameras, hold off on shipping the camer: hh or shipping the space to do it. 5 think the order 4 =) fu ct wn fu t Oo rt fe) Hh a wu 3 @ kK ri] n cameras MR. MR. wu a MR. fu ot Oo Fh w oO i Q o this - I mean, I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with it, EFTA00125249

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 48 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a : Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. MR. a : Right, hey, there’s nowhere to house it. MR. a : Mm-hmm. MR. a : If that is an issue, you can tell us. Hey, we had nowhere to house it. MR. a: Yes. MR. a : But if that’s a communication between both you guys, just be up front and say, hey, no, I told him to hold off on it. MR. a: No. The hold off was, this - the cameras have to be approved on a (Indiscernible *00:32:38) list. And the problem was the cameras that I had requested, BOP went and changed, whoever in Central Office —- the original proposal was for access cameras and the problem was these cameras were not going to work on the NiceVision. When you added them to the software app. I make sure every time we got something that it’s going to work, because I know when you order a big bulk like that, you can’t just send it back. You can’t say, hey, I don’t have the right stuff, because it’s not going to work. And that’s EFTA00125250

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 49 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 part of the problem now. Because these Wycon cameras, 300 of them, I don’t know if they’re at MCC now, but when I was leaving MCC, they were never installed because the next year the Pogo cameras got installed because the Wycon cameras never really worked with the NiceVision. That’s why I was telling everybody to hold off. Because I knew it was going to be a problem with the network. MR. a: Okay. So that’s what clarifies. MR. a: Yes. MR. a: So, when this order was placed, and this bulk order was placed, you’re saying there was an issue with the cameras? MR. a: Yes, yes. Because they have to have a certain plug-in to work on the system, and we have to make sure, hey these are the cameras we’re going to order, and these are the ones that are going to get installed. BOP, somebody changed the part number and I’m, like, hold off on it, we’ve got to make sure these cameras are on our approved list, because they have to sign off on it. If it’s not on the approved list, you can’t have these cameras in EFTA00125251

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE the ins oO wo ive) fea] oo ct F ct c rt B oO 3 MR. MR. talking about this, but this rea -- shipping it? -- shipping it, yes. you had to verify y So, Mm-hmm. -- part number? But this, I know ly has in - when you initially e with the EFTA00125252

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 51 1 oO 0 eI w + = ry & + ot c H D is] he 1) ct H = b i] = n t R ra] it was ct a 0) ie) Ki Q i) H t i K D n 16 MR Let’s just 17 MR. 18 MR. The estimate was October. 19 MR. 20 MR. 21 BOP and let them know, 22 problem with the order? 23 MR. EFTA00125253

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w fos) wo ive) oo OFFICIAL USE 52 would have to send a trouble ticket to get it approved; these cameras approved on the list. MR. ae : So, you think Computer MR. EE: | Mn-bm.. MR. a : Mm-hmm. MR. a : And you think you spoke to } fw ct ia 2) c ion f m rt bh Q cam 1) rt b Bb tall rt) rt > a u ifs) sure it’s approved on the list before it gets MR. a : So, he would have to MR. a : And do you remember a. yeah, he was aware of it. The Wycon cameras. Because the part number changed. like, based on what he said, the part number EFTA00125254

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w fos) wo ive) oo changed because it was -. ite} w nd I can’t sign off on it. That’s why | was on the email because he’s the one that has to sign off on cameras. I can’t sign off on do my recommendations, but I can’t sign off an get anything shipped to the institution. ifferent from to c rt ct x wy rt un ion a Mm-hmm. 5 -- to him stating that, a m ke ~ 5 0 | You wait a) 3) | | : I | | | d too long, waited too 1 a That’s That’ fh Kh two different two different 7) a pe 3 Q n . 0 n 3) OFFICIAL USE 53 1 EFTA00125255

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ~] oO 10 11 like, according to the contract - what was the cameras that you guys ordered? *00:35:49) licenses. up. I think it was *00:35:57). Oh, 10. 350, (Indiscernible No, I think it was split 75 and -. Oh. (Indiscernible Yes, this part number right here. MR. a : And you -. What -? Can you read it out so we can -. Mike-6-2-Whisky-Romero - Bravo-9. MR. a : And there’s another one, too, right? Because that’s only one set of 1QM62WR-B3. One Quebec- camera MR. a: That’s the pointer That really didn’t have anything to it) cameras. do with it. These are the dome cameras. MR. QM: So, there was nothing wrong with the dome camera even when they changed the part number, this fo They never really worked - never worked on the system. We never even installed these cameras. EFTA00125256

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. a : So, the dome cameras never ow wi We had them on hand when ies) Fs) 4 they came in eventually, but we have to order - 5 the next year, those are the cameras we 6 installed. I installed a few of these cameras 7 and I had issues, so we had to go to Pelco from 8 the order from the next year. wo a So, no matter what, you 10 had issues, but do you recall telling | - 11 or you said, right now, that | to 2 hold off because there was issues 3 cameras 4 MR. a : (Indiscernible *00:36:55). You recognized an issue t wi ra r oO ht b- Q a ct Oo Hh bh ct J oO oO wu Q — 7 MR. es : And it has to get approved on the (Indiscernible *00: oo list. It was wo two different issues, but -. 21 recognized there was an issue and So initially, you yu told | | 23 MR. SJ: | Mn-hrn. 24 MR. a : -- | | at Computer EFTA00125257

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE eel Ww ct B = Oo ct | oO w te) is) I’m talking back here? when to wu a tam J ) kK i) t Wa ' 3 im + b wu fe) KR Q o H | I told him t a But I can 16 tell them, hey, hold 17 © ship whatever they’ 18 ship back then. the that the ’t really - off, but re going to EFTA00125258

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED Ww oO wo WwW fea] oo OFFICIAL USE when MR. wrong. MR. 7 0) io) a] fl oF) MR. him to MR. stuff K hold ing No o w wher = ou on no Th e with 7) , Yep. i camera n 201 in 2018 were shipped -- because based 2018. nu ber part K vy) co off on on. logistically. 1 n 201 shipping. to figure out -- he didn’t ship out the was EFTA00125259

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

oO wo ive) fea] oo communication from you up until another email, but this is him. This looks like FY -— Hmm. Mm-hmm. t 19, 2019. n EFTA00125260

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 uw to MR. a : Mm-hmm. MR. a : -- 334 each.” That means - and he, | ssi pointed us to this saying that’s when he got the final all-clear. MR. a: Final, okay, yes. MR. a : From MCC to finally order the parts. MR. a: Yeah, because there was, there had to be a signature and I couldn’t sign for it. That was another problem, too, because there was nobody in charge. No bills am I assigned for, to get this stuff - hey, these cameras got to get here, somebody’s got to sign for it. Because during this time, when this happened, there was really nobody in charge. I think, I don’t know if | was still there or not there, but to get the cameras shipped, there had to be a signature, and I couldn’t sign for anything. MR. QM: So, there was no -a signature wasn’t needed for the recorders? Because the recorders are an expensive part. MR. a: The recorders. Yeah, it’s an expensive part, but the cameras, I couldn’t sign off on. Because remember, I was going EFTA00125261

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w fos) wo ive) oo OFFICIAL USE back and think the already s When it c don’t thi actually couldn’t change th o MR. again? E And then 60 forth about the cameras, hey, I don’t n se cameras are going to work. hipped that stuff for whatever reason. ame to the cameras and I was, like, I nk this is going to work, and they needed another signature, and I sign for it. I couldn't e part number. xplain that slow Wait a minute, So, I knew Okay. meras weren’t going to And then, || has I spoke to -- This is 2018 or '19? ‘19. EFTA00125262

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w fos) wo ive) oo OFFICIAL USE 61 knew it was a problem, so I probably told them, hey, hold off on shipping the actual cameras. cn fie) MR. 7 Until we figure out, like, e’re going to house it, and what’s going you told him -- would | | w Pp ue] ot fay 0 ni] 3 o K a wn MR. needed. 5 I | | | | I \ \ \ jon w t o ini Fe K ior it) rv] a oO it) 3 e) MR. a : All right, so that was - EFTA00125263

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 62 1 logistically there was no way to house them? ral There was no way -- WwW a) they were o Be 8 a lot of mo 9 hing disapp t 7) wu =I D K wu 7) B it) wu bh oO ct f be io] h e) wu 3 iu) H fu wn rt Oo oD Oo f w i) That’s fine. F Ww Pal t n od fea] oo wo And not -. Not getting tt no. Well, it was -. EFTA00125264

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w fos) wo ive) oo OFFICIAL USE | about this, -. This is not what we initial, verything was supposed anyway -- Okay was this The model everything that I was sent up to BOP, They change the part number. I’m, like ,wait, is wrong. And we don’t hold o Hh Ph you And that’s after this EFTA00125265

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 64 1 MR. a : But none of that, like, 2 the CS, || a. none of that was addressed up until -- 4 MR. QM: nt il this. ies) w 5 I ! 2 wo 7 MR. QJ: the end of '19? 8 MR. es : Yes, when the actual, they 9 were going to get installed. We had to make 10 sure that everything was going to work on the 11 network. 3 MR aa: Yeah, I’1l ask one question 4 now, and then I’1l1 let you ask a couple of 15 more, looking at your question list. 16 Once you had the space and they had the 7 right cameras in October 2018, were you guys at 8 the institution in a position to install those 9 right away, anyway? 20 MR. J: No. = No. 21 MR. QR: ok 22 MR. a : It took - even after that y. All right. w be 23 happened - it took TDY help about a year anda 24 half pulling fiber through the whole building, 25 upgrading the infrastructure before we could EFTA00125266

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) nN ive) fea] oo wo No N No Wa OFFICIAL USE 65 even install cameras. And then -- MR. a : -- Then to install the cameras, that was another - yeah. MR. QM: Yeah. I just wanted to confirm that, and I think | will ask you a couple more questions now about what you were talk about August 10, 2019. Like, this is the MR. a : -- Mr. Epstein died. How much of that conduit and wiring was actually housing unit, and then I started -. that was MR. a : Well, as far as the infrastructure, yes. Because I think out of the TDY - I don’t know when - I know there was TDY help when FY first came. It was | | EFTA00125267

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 66 wi ~] 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 and a. They came from Texas. And we pretty much fired up one unit to make sure, hey, this is how we’re going to - because we have to pipe all that in for the cameras. You have to put a conduit in. You can’t have the wires exposed, into each camera. And where are you going to actually set the cameras up. So, that took, like about a month for us to do that -. The first unit took like a month. MR. a : And how many housing units are at the MCC? MR. a: So, there’s the female unit, unit on the second floor. The WITSEC Unit on three. 5 North, 5 South. 7 North, 7 South. 9 North, SHU, 10 South, 11 South, 11 North. So, 11 housing units. MR. a : And as of August, only one housing unit was done at that point? MR. a: I don’t really -. Honestly, I don’t remember. There’s a lot going on. MR. a : I’m talking an idea at that point. MR. a: Yeah. I think during that time, if || and | came TDY, that’s when EFTA00125268

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 67 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 maybe one housing unit was totally piped in and maybe ready to go, but even then, it wasn’t ready to go because you still needed a fiber upgrade. We could have put it on single mode, but it would have had issues. It wasn’t -. And then, we still didn’t even have CAT-5. There was a lost of stuff we just didn’t have to finish the upgrade. MR. a: Okay. So, after Mr. Epstein’s death, did they bring in more employees? MR. a: Yes, they brought a lot of TDY help, and that’s when a lot of stuff happened. MR. a : And once they brought in all the employees, how long did it take to actually put the - forget about the cameras - how long did it take to put the wiring in? MR. QJ: |S After Epstein’s death - so they were closing down the prison in August of, well, we found out August-September. I was still working, like, two or three times a week on overtime installing conduit, and running wires, and installing cameras. And even with all that said, there was still - I remember I EFTA00125269

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 68 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 went through all 11 housing units - I still didn’t finish 11 South because that’s open dorm. Unit Two never got finished and the sallyports never got finished. And some outside cameras. So, even after that happened, three years, it still was a long undertaking. MR. a : So, even after three years MR. QM: ves. MR. a : -- it’s still not completed? MR. a: It wasn’t completed when we left, and they shut down that jail. As far as the IP cameras, that was not completed, no. MR. a : And that was just the wire itself that never got completed? MR. a: No, no. Just hooking up cameras and the wiring. We put in -. Pretty much set up the infrastructure where each floor you could go to a hub to install cameras everywhere. vR. QE: yeah. MR. a: But as far as finishing the actual units, some of that was not complete, no. EFTA00125270

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE a is) Oo Jkay. And do you recall 2 when the majority of the work was done? 3 MR. a : I was, like, I was working A a F aj] + ‘ : . 4 overtime all the time, so it was -. 5 MR. a : Was it like a couple of 6 months? Three months, four months? 7 MR. a : It was a couple of years. 8 I was still working on it -- 9 MR a : It was still ongoing? 10 MR a : -- yeah. It was still 11 ongoing. I was still working on it. It was 2 never really complete. Because COVID happened. 3 We had TDY help, and we had the gun thing, 4 where we had more people come in. So, there 15 was a lot of stuff that needed to -. 16 MR. a : So, they were continuous being people TDY to help with it? 8 MR. QM: ves. 9 MR. a : Okay. And did the people 20 actually continue doing work for the cameras, 21 or were they pulled out to do other things? 22 MR. a : They were pulled out to do 23 other things too, when it came to UI. 24 MR. a : What was SigNet’s role in 25 the installation? EFTA00125271

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED w ~] oO 10 11 OFFICIAL USE 70 MR. a : They were supposed to do a boatload of work, but we ended up doing a lot of the work inhouse. MR. a : That’s (Indiscernible *00:45:54). MR. a: Yeah. Because -. MR. a : Because over here on line, where is that line? Look SigNet labor says oO ) 243,000. MR. QJ: 43,000 yeah. MR. QJ: «What was their job? MR. a: Their job. Okay, so the main thing we were supposed to do was run pipe everywhere and, like -- MR. a : You guys were? Like, the mcc. MR. a: -- right. MCC was supposed to run the pipe everywhere, put the box up, and they were just going to come in and mount the cameras up and put it on the network, but it was going to take too long, so we just started doing everything in-house. We started —- well I started - just installing cameras, and putting them up, and letting them start recording. So, you have more view. Because EFTA00125272

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 71 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 one camera we had on the unit, that wasn’t going to solve everything. So, we had one camera on the unit, and after, like, all this started happening and especially, a staff member got assaulted. That’s why I added another camera on the network, one on top of the bubble, so you could see like - it’s a 270 - so, you can see like this way. You can pretty much see the whole unit. So, that’s the best I could do at the time for all of the housing units that only had one camera. And then, eventually we started going unit by unit and just installing 12 to 13, however many cameras on each unit. MR. a : Okay. And how long did SigNet stay after Mr. Epstein’s death? Did they come and stay for a while -- MR. QM: «0h, yeah, I wouldn't -- MR. a: -- to finish up everything, or did they -? MR. a: No. After Mr. Epstein’s death, that’s when they came and installed the recorders. Because this was all on-hand, the new recorders and the rack. But they had to EFTA00125273

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w fos) ive) oo OFFICIAL USE ge we're on the list, to get upgraded. ie) t the okay for them to - well, and I called this. I was, like, hey but we weren’t on the list So, but then this came, like, the next day, and They didn’t help with the EFTA00125274

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 73 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 make sure I’m clear. We talked about the fact that if you had the new cameras in October of 2018, you would not have been able to install them based on the lack of wiring. MR. a: Yes. MR. a: So, let me ask the same thing about August 10th, the day of Epstein’s death. If you had received the cameras before that day, would you have been able to install them before that time? MR. a: No. MR. aa: Okay. And, because it looks like - yeah - the cameras I think finally came in October 2019. The second question is - let me get back to my notes here - after Epstein’s death, as you just said, SigNet came in, they got the new recorders up and running, and you were able to have video coverage with the old cameras on the old recorders, correct? MR. Yes. MR. a: So, it’s not like the institution was without -- MR. a: Cameras, no. MR. a: -- cameras, yeah, between -. EFTA00125275

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 74 1 MR. a : The cameras were always hat’s the misinterpretation of the 2 working. 3 whole thing. 5 MR. were always 6 working. 7 MR. a: All right. I just wanted to 8 make sure to get that on the record as well. 9 And the final question - I don’t think, 10 a. you were going to ask this - is in 1 regard to the other contract, ma. I Ww Fs) K 1) it) (Indiscernible *00:49:10). a : I had a question also. 7 I’1l show him the email also. t oO a Lee) 5 Yeah. Perfect. Okay. Then 9 I’1ll let you -. 20 MR. a : No, no. You can ask the him the email, so, if you No ox) 5 iS | =) 3 5 24 MR. QJ: -- 1/11 provide it to him. 25 MR. a: Yeah, so basically ,my EFTA00125276

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 75 1 question was going to be in regard to that 2 contract, do you know approximately when the 3 materials from that contract came in? 4 MR. a : This was -. MR. QJ: 9 And again, it looked to be w a oO primarily wiring, from my understanding of the order. 8 MR. es : The cable. aa: Yeah. 10 MR. a : Is this fiber? I don’t -. 11 No, that came a little bit later, because we wo Fs didn’t have fiber anything. Nm You didn’t have ive) Fs) 5 MR. a : Maybe we had fiber, but 16 then we had to do another order for fiber 7 because they wanted to change stuff, so. 8 MR a : And this, is it the new 9 order for -? I want to read this just for the 20 record. This -. This is from J. 21 Who’s 22 MR. a : Oh, that’s the contracting 23 officer at the time. He took | spot. 24 He was, like, the cashier. ct Financial EFTA00125277

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ies) w ~] wo i=) 11 ive) ~) on Program Specialist? MR. a : Yes, yes. MR. a : Okay. And it was sent to a bunch of people including a. PF a. yourself, and it says, subject is “Anxiter TP12240 and SigNet tech.” a. After reviewing my cost report for the Central Office samples, I went ahead and asked a. our Com Tech, on the status of these par It says, “Good afternoon, } ct bp Q c w K POs, and he advised me that they haven’t been able to receive the fiber cable, and without the cable, they can’t proceed with the camera ” m tem MR. SR: 0 n-hon. MR. a : “He mentioned that the company is requiring some sort of it) sy documentation. He should be able to provide you with the details.” MR. QM: Yeah, because I - like I said - I couldn’t sign for anything. So, somebody else would have to sign it. I could advise as much as I can, but I can’t sign it. MR. a : So, you recall, that’s not the new order, that was the previous? EFTA00125278

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 77 ay Be Yeah, probably the order. 3 MR. ae : And fiber was never used? 4 MR. a : Yes, it 5 MR. QM: Later on 7 un. a: - 8 MR. a : The was to wo and then do ive) 15 about that. t o 7) A wu wo + po wu rt 17 MR. a : That was ma something else, or maybe it was oo I ie) 19 don’t know. 21 conduits to run? EFTA00125279

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 78 No 5 = ocally. 3 bought the conduits from them. What about the 4 wiring itself? 5 MR. es : That was from Anxiter. 6 Because that’s the CAT-6 I use. I got 7 everything from a. 8 MR. a : All right, so it was from an outside vendor? wo 0 +) f be a Oo ? wu Oo ct y 0) ind D was actual 2 contracts for that. 3 MR. ae : Yes. For the fiber, yes. 4 The conduit, we just placed the order and just 5 bought conduit when we needed it, as much as we 16 needed to do a unit. oo 5 i 5 a fn Ce) wu Q 7 hs 5 I think that 9 email was from April 2019, so it sounds like, 20 at least at that point, you guys had not 21 received the Fs materials. Do you have 22 any idea when that finally showed up? 23 MR. a : It was so much stuff 24 coming in, and like I said -- EFTA00125280

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) fos) wo ive) oo OFFICIAL USE 79 MR. ae : -- we had very limited MR. aa: No, I understand. MR. SR: nr-on. oO wn 7) o Bb Ph Oo £ MR. aa: And that is all I have, another email here. It looks like it’s a communication between yourself and | MR. a : And it says, “Good morning. Is it possible to overnight some cameras for roject?” And you were asking him, “I would lil o mock- unit befc bet started to see what we needed -- MR. a : -- 20 dome IPs, five 180- degree IP, five - I mean two PTC, dome IPs. EFTA00125281

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w fos) wo ive) oo OFFICIAL USE March when we MR. MR. unit you’re get was before the cameras, a unit? far as the piping and put everything. And this is | oD } 7) P- n us. c or) ct | ct om 0) c=] Hh (e) K rt ur unit. Which orth, you recognize this prior to them Do you h s@ cameras? i) 7) probably when we it was finished the piping. unit that? was may. so this is the done, so -. nything came in? started doing one we did one unit, where you’re going to EFTA00125282

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 81 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 everything would fit? MR. a: Yes, and how would it work on our system. MR. a : Okay, no problem. I’m going to jump onto the next set of questions. Is that okay? MR. a: Yeah, yeah, it’s good with me. I’ve got everything on the previous subject that I needed. Thank you. MR. a : Okay. Now regarding the NiceVision System, can you confirm that only the SIS staff and electronics technicians had the ability to replay, save and export videos, or could certain other staff, like captains, lieutenants, anyone else review or save recorded footage as well? MR. a: I think the captain has authorization. Lieutenants? I’m not too sure if they had authorization to pull video to -. Because sometimes they’d have to send a packet up, so I don’t know if it was the SIS or the lieutenants that saved video. Every institution is kind of different when it comes to who can pull the video. MR. a : Is there something called EFTA00125283

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 82 ~] wo i=) 11 SuperVision? MR. a : SuperVision, yes. MR. a : So, you would have to have a specific log-in for it? MR. es : No, SuperVision - yes, you would have to log for - well, no. But SuperVision is just mainly for passwords and stuff. It’s not really for anything else. MR. a : Oh, okay. But to view it, but don’t you have to log in to see? MR. a : Yeah, that’s the regular NiceVision -- MR. a : Okay. MR. a : -- that’s in control. You just have to have access to Control. That’s the part of NiceVision. MR. a : And who had access to that, just the captains and the Com Techs? MR. a : Just the Com Techs, yeah. Maybe the lieutenants had it. I would have to see the usernames. I’m pretty sure the lieutenants should have had it. I’m not too sure. sure. You think maybe the captains, maybe the ke EFTA00125284

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) OFFICIAL USE 83 lieutenants? MR. a : Captains definitely? MR. a : The captain and SIS And Com Techs. And the Com Tech The lieutenant’s office? Some of the lieutenants I think had their own password to look at a video, in case something happened. Just to look at video. MR. Does that differentiate (Indiscernible *00:55:03) between like an operations lieutenant and activity lieutenant? MR. Activity, yes. Depending on - because you got your GS-11 and GS-9 lieutenant. MR. So, there’s a possibility the operations lieutenant had access? MR. a: Access, yes MR. a : Okay. For the standard NiceVision users - example, anyone outside the use as identified in, like, let’s say for the people like the captain, lieutenant, things EFTA00125285

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 84 1 like that - can you confirm that those users 2 were only able to view live video feeds? 3 MR. a : Well, it’s depending on 4 how you set up everybody’s profile. Somebody’s 5 profile you can - mainly SIS - they can pull 6 video under that profile. If you were a 7 lieutenant, you can probably just view live 8 viewing. Because there’s - Nice comes and 9 pretty much sets that all up before you even 10 get - They can see live video? 3 MR Okay. Who had the ability 4 to go back? 15 MR a : I think maybe the 16 lieutenants, too, because if there’s a fight or something, and they needed to look back at 8 video, and if SIS wasn’t there, they probably 9 would need access to look back. 20 MR. QM: |The captain? 21 MR. a : Captain. 24 MR. a : Com Techs? 25 MR. a : Com Techs. EFTA00125286

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w ~] wo i=) 11 ive) OFFICIAL USE MR. So, basically anyone who had access should have technically have the ability to review back. 107) MR. : To look back, yes. MR. What about Control? Control just live view? MR. Live view, yes. And that’s something we added later. They never had a password until - well, until we started upgrading the system. MR. fo) oa w k 4 > oO B ia} ity a fad oO oO 5 n Wu. c OT stayed live -- MR. MR. rr MR. Yeah, they couldn’t go back or pull anything, no. MR. Okay. Anything on those two questions? oo wi -- they couldn’t mess with MR. J: Nope, I’m good. So, it sounds like there’s just a couple of types of accounts. One is where you can rewind, sav and export video, and the standard user account is just looking at the live feed. Is that EFTA00125287

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE oo fon) 1 wR. I: ves ies) Fs) Okay. Thank you. 4 MR. a : Now for - because they’re 5 standard, as we mentioned, there’s different 6 users, right? Standard user and, like, the 7 other type of users wo [es] OD Q = w =] 5 faa 3 5 they log in from any 11 MR. a : Yes, any computer that has 3 MR a : Oh, so it had to be pre- 4 installed? 15 MR. a : Yes, it had to be pre- 16 installed. And some computers just have control, they don’t have access to SuperVision, is] 8 or to, like, go back and play video. 9 MR. QM: svean. 20 MR. QM: | they just have the 21 control. But even in control sometimes, you 22 can play back video that’s there with just the 23 controller setting. You don’t need SuperVision 24 actually on that computer. If your log-in 25 permits you to go that far. EFTA00125288

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w fos) wo ive) oo OFFICIAL USE 87 MR. aa: And so, on that, Mr. a. Ss just various desktops, if you will, computers throughout the institution that had NiceVision installed. HK kK o ie] rt 7) K o its) shared computers in the institution? MR. aa: Is that right? Like, like any other institution? All right. And that’s all I have on that. Thanks. MR. a : Did the facilities manager Not that I know of. No. MR. a : So, it’s just the Well, where the had ac EFTA00125289

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE oo co 1 MR. ies) a) wi mh 6 MR So, the facilities 7 man 8 MR We didn’t have keys to get 9 in that room Because that was the I 10 mean that’s the room we were talking way 1 all this happened, that we needed to get this 2 fixed and it never did until after. 3 MR. a : Lieutenant ma 4 mentioned that downstairs in your office, the 5 Coms Tech in the basement 16 MR Yes 7 MR. Was there, like, a tower 8 in your office with, like, the recorders and 9 things like that in the office? 20 MR. No. s to -? m 21 MR. a : That gave you acce 22 MR No. I just had the live 23 feed from the old (Indiscernible *00:58:31), so 24 I could look at the live video, and at my 25 workstation I could look at -. I had a screen EFTA00125290

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 89 1 in my shop where I could look at the live feed. 2 MR. QJ: Yeah. 3 MR. a: And then, I had my desktop 4 computer where I could log into Nice and look 5 at what’s being recorded, or what’s working on 6 the recorders. 7 MR. a : But she mentioned like a 8 terminal itself. Like, all the recorders, DVRs 9 and stuff - 10 MR. QJ: | tt probably looked like -. 11 It was probably my -. That’s where the public 12 address was. And later on, after the install, 3 I put in a separate, like I put a network in my 4 shop, but that was later on. The only thing 15 that was in there was the public address, my 16 live feed, and my workstation. L7 MR. a : This is prior to the 8 August 10th, 2019? 9 MR. BM: ves 20 MR. QJ: Okay. «But there’s no 21 actual, like a DVR system, recorders, or 22 anything like that? 23 MR. a: No, there was nothing in 24 the basement, no. 25 MR. QM: Okay. Anything else ASAC EFTA00125291

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ~] wo 10 11 | Seg MR. a: Yeah. I just want to double back to the key situation and the rooms there. So, the actual room with the DVR recorders, right? MR. QJ: 9 and and that’s -. 7] 2) Oo c an wu fu key to that No. I never had a key to that until after all of this happened. After - MR. aa: Okay, so the actual - so there are two rooms. MR. a: The way I understand it is there was the phone monitor room, and then within that room there’s another locked room that had the DVRs, correct? MR. QE: Yes, yes. Okay, so you didn’t have a key to either one of those rooms? No. MR. a: Okay. Well, I’m glad I asked because that was a li wm ttle confusing. So, SI controlled the keys to both of those rooms? EFTA00125292

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 91 1 MR. a: Yes, because that was the 2 Evidence Room. And like I stated before, I was 3 told numerous times that we should have our own 4 key or get your stuff out of the Recorder Room. 5 MR. Ha: Okay. 6 MR. a: And that’s how it is at 7 most institutions. Just the Recorder Room. 8 Nobody else but the Com Techs have that key or 9 should. MDC Brooklyn, I have the same problem 10 now because that room is - I don’t mean to be 11 talking off - but they use that room for other 12 stuff, so now you have people that do have the 13 key. These two institutions are rare because 14 when I worked in Terre Haute, only the Com 15 Techs had the key to go in the Recorder Room. 16 Nobody else should have the key. 17 These two institutions for space or 18 whatever, they use an excuse and other people 19 have the key to go in the room and nobody 20 should have the key but the Com Techs. 21 MR. | og Okay. So, prior to August 22 10th, 2019, you did not have a key to that -- 23 MR. a: No. We talked about it 24 before -- 25 MR. a: -- Recorder Room? EFTA00125293

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 92 1 MR. a : -- about me getting access 2 to having a key so I could get in that room. MR. a : But you never did. 4 MR. a: Okay, so -. ies) 5 MR. es : I never got it, no. 6 MR. aa: You didn’t have one. I’m 7 assuming the facilities manager didn’t have one 8 either then, back then. 9 MR. E: No. 10 MR. a: Okay. And so, you said SIS 11 controlled those keys. Obviously, the 2 lieutenant had it. Do you know if the SIS Tech 3 had the key? 4 MR. a : The SIS Tech had the key and the lieutenant, 7 MR. es : And whoever was in the w 8 Phone Monitoring Room or the Video Room. They 9 would have the key to get in also. 20 MR. QJ: So, the phone monitor who is 21 just O that’s rotating -- 22 MR. QM: ssves. 23 MR. aa: -- or a staff member rotating 24 through there on a quarterly basis, they would 25 be given that DVR Room key, as well? EFTA00125294

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 93 They would have the key to 2 get in the room and the door is supposed to be 3 locked, but usually, I get - if they’re already 4 - I could just go in the room in the back. 5 MR. a : The room in the back. Is 6 that locked or is it just kept open? 7 MR. a : It probably should have 8 been locked. Sometimes I went in there, it was 9 locked, sometimes it was open. 10 MR. a: Okay, so, but for the phone 11 monitor, they had a room, obviously to the 2 Phone Monitor Room -- 3 MR. QR: ves. 4 MR. : = -- 15 — 16 VR. a: 7 that key B ve. SE: 9 sometimes -? 20 MR. a: 21 that key or not, but 22 MR. QE: ae: 24 have that key 23 MR. but not the actual DVR Room I’m not sure if they had -- but you’re just saying that I don’t know if they have Okay. usually that room is open. Because only the SIS would EFTA00125295

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 94 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 = Thanks a lot for clearing that up. And that’s all I had on the keys. I had one more question, a. if you were finished, before we move on to the phone call. MR. QM: ves. MR. QM: veah. MR. a: The DVR and DR training, we Saw some emails -- MR. QJ: Yeah. MR. a: -- which I think you -. MR. a: I never got training. Everything was inhouse. MR. a: Okay. You did not take that training? MR. a: I’ve never taken a training. Everything I’ve learned is on-the- job. MR. aa: Okay. And the version, like - so, the main thing is, when I started as a Com Tech, I started in Indiana - and the version of NiceVision I had was, like, two generations before the current version when I went to MCC. So, when I came to MCC, I thought MCC was going to have the updated version, but they have the old stuff, and then I had to figure out how EFTA00125296

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ite] wi 1 that stuff worked. 2 MR. aa: Okay. 3 MR. a : So, I was learning 4 backwards, pretty much. 5 MR. QJ: 9811 right. Thanks. I know 6 you had provided us with an email showing, I 7 forget the date. It was a certain point in 8 time you had not had the training. I was just 9 wondering if that had changed at any time prior 10 to the incident? 11 MR. a : Up to this day, I’ve till is] 2 had no training -- 3 MR aa: Okay. 4 MR. a : -- from NiceVision. 5 MR. QM: All right. Well, hang in f foal ct Ss oO ind o Maybe one of these days. 7 MR. QM: «sts think I’m kind of an expert now because -. oo 9 MR. aa: It sounds like it. All right, 20 and that’s all I had. Thanks. 21 MR. a : And onto the last topic. 22 MR. QR: 0 Mn-bon. 23 MR. a : I’m going to show 24 document. Do you recognize this? it) EFTA00125297

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

ive) oO wo Like, can call? is) oD I a 3) And then This is the y made me pull. Who made The warden Ok Can you 96 plain to us what you pull? read that? e of the Which is 185 That would 58, yeah, The locat e the loca be and that 6:58 p.m. three WaS a EFTA00125298

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) fos) oo OFFICIAL USE 97 MR. to pull a phone call. MR. a : And what was the number that was dialed out? MR. a : The number that was dialed Oh, so the start time was MR. QJ: And how long did that call EFTA00125299

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w fos) ive) oo USE 98 into the institution or coming out. That’s the phone record. MR. And based on you went in, this is the call? That was the call, MR. a : And you pulled this up, MR. a : -- phone call, and that pro MR. QR: 91 do not. MR. QM: «Well, that’s it from us. Yeah. I thought it was going to be more. EFTA00125300

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

1 oO wo oO oo MR. ae : It’s a little confusing. I should clarify the timing. MR. a : And thank God we we just n MR. a : -- and date it. let me put this in front of anywhere on the document. MR. a : Today is the -? MR. a : I’m bad with and date EFTA00125301

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

Ww oO wo WwW fea] oo documen time to t. MR. MR. going t concluding this in better. ( c he The time is 11:2 100 Indiscernible Same thing. No, you’re part of the same or taking the And we can’t say w oO re with more questi Uh-oh. We might have more And we'll u again. Uh-huh. This is Special Agent 8 a.m., I'm the EFTA00125302

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 101 1 recorder. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 EFTA00125303

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 102 1 CERTIFICATE urate transcript of the 4 electronic sound recording 13 15 16 EFTA00125304