DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF ee OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL OCTOBER 27, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES EFTA00117427

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APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: i a BY a WITNESS: OTHER APPEARANCES: NONE EFTA00117428

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MR. BRN: «Ss The recorder is on. MR. MM: «My name is i im. 1 am a Special Agent with the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General, New York Field Office, and these are my credentials. MS. BM: 39 Thank you. MR. QM: This interview with Federal Bureau of Prisons employee, Captain 10 BRM. Did I get that right? il ‘S. : a. a i— &£ 13 MS. BRM: Ss Yes. MR. BEM: (Is being conducted as part of 15 an official U.S. Department of Justice, Office 16 of the Inspector General investigation. 17 Today’s date is October 27th. The time is 18 11:25 a.m. This interview is being conducted 19 at the OIG, New York Field Office, located on 20 the Ce. = so present is: 22 MR. RRM: «s«&D0J/OIG Senior Special 23 Agent, CIR MN And these are my 24 credentials. 25 MS. MRM: 39 Thank you. wWweoIHnU &WNe- EFTA00117429

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WOIKHRU &WNHE MR. BRN: Ss Thank you. MR. QJ: ‘This interview will be recorded by me, Special Agent a EE. Could everyone please identify themselves for the record, and spell your last name? To start, again, I am DOJ/OIG Special Agent, a ee. : MR. : Senior Special Agent ee MS. HRM: And Captain Ei ee MR. $MM: (Thank you. This is an official DOJ/OIG investigation into the death of inmate Jeffrey Epstein, and you are being asked to voluntarily provide answers to our questions. Will you agree to a voluntary interview with the DOJ/OIG? MS. Yes. MR. Okay. I’m going to provide you with a form. OIG form III-226/2. It states, "United States Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General Warnings and Assurances to Employees Requested to Provide Information on a Voluntary Basis. You are being asked to provide information as part of EFTA00117430

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WOAHUO SWNHE an investigation being conducted by the Office of the Inspector General. This investigation is being conducted pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended. This investigation pertains to job performance failure and security failure. This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not have to answer questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you choose not to answer questions. Any statements you furnish may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceedings, or agency disciplinary proceeding, or both." The waiver section states, "I understand the Warnings and Assurances stated above, and I am willing to make a statement and answer questions. No promises or threats have been made to me, and no pressure or coercion of any kind has been used against me." Please review the form, and if you understand and agree, please sign where it states, “Employee Signature," and print your name below it. MS. HRM: 39s You said, so, print right here? MR. BRM: = Yeah. EFTA00117431

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WOIKHRU &WNHE MS. HRM: 39=And signature and print? MR. BER: Yes. This is iy Em. I’m signing on the Signature of the Special Agent. Agent MM, can you please sign as a witness? MR. BRM: Ss Yes. I am signing as a witness. Put my name, and I will enter the date, time, and place. MR. BRM: 9 Thank you. Captain iy, before starting the interview, I would like to place you under oath. Can you please raise your right hand? MS. BMJ: 39s Yeah. MR. BMJ: Do you swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth during this interview? MS. BM: 39s Yes. MR. QM: 39Thank you. You can put your hand down. Please let me know if you do not understand any questions I ask, and I will try to repeat it, or rephrase it for you. MS. BR: (Okay. MR. QM: 9=What is your current home address? OS EFTA00117432

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~] AnW | — fos) MR. a: of birth? MS. =: MR. a: number? MS. iy: MR. Sa: phone number? MR. i: education? MS. im: MR. i: MS. i: college. MR. 2: MS. i: Indiana. college? MS. i: Thank you. What is your date What is your social security What is your current cell What is your highest level of Some college. What is your college? Just a couple of community Okay. In my hometown. Back in What was the name of the Commonwell (Phonetic Sp. *00:04:27) Business College. EFTA00117433

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MR. BRM: 9oOkay. And was there a concertation you were following? MS. BR: 9 No. MR. BMJ: 9Okay. What did you do prior to working for the BOP? MS. BRM: )3=L worked for Indiana State Corrections. MR. $MM: 9 And how long was that for? MS. BRM: =o started, it was about, I And then, I left Okay. In '98, you came to Yes. Okay. Did you have any military service? MS. ER: 39 No. MR. MRR: 9Okay. And have you been with the BOP since 1998? MS. BM: =sYes. MR. BRM: «9 Okay. Do you remember your exact enter on duty date? MS. BRM: Ss April 26, 1998. MR. BMJ: Thank you. And what is your current employment status? EFTA00117434

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WOIKHRU &WNHE MS. BN: «3S I’m sorry. I don’t understand. MR. QM: «ss What is your current position with -- MR. $MM: 39 Yeah. MR. SRN: «Ss --— the BOP? MS. BRR: «39s I’m a captain. I’m sorry. MR. BMJ: At othe FCI Fort -- MS. BRR: «Ss At Fort -- MR. : -- Dix. MS. : -- yes. At FCI Fort Dix. I’m the complex captain. MR. MRM: 9Okay. And prior to being captain at FCI Fort Dix, were you employed at the MCC? MS. BRM: 9=Well, I was the deputy captain at Fort Dix. Then I got the institution captain, but prior to that, yes, I was employed at MCC New York. MR. BBB: 39=During what time period? MS. BRM: 32 I started in -. I transferred to MCC in April of 2013, and I left in September 2019. MR. BJ: And what was, in September 2019, you transferred over to -? EFTA00117435

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WOIKHRU &WNHE MS. : FCI Fort Dix. MR. : As a deputy -- MS. : Captain. MR. : -- captain. MS. : Mm-hmm. MR. : What was your position at Mcc in 2019? MS. : I was a lieutenant. MR. : A lieutenant. Okay. Was that a nine, or -? MS. : No. I was an 1l. MR. : An ll. MS. : Mm-hmm. MR. : Okay. And as a lieutenant at the MCC, what were your duties there? MS. BRM: 9=That year, I was assigned as the administrative lieutenant. So, my duties consisted of making sure the staff and the correctional services department got their training. I did everybody’s schedules. Sometimes, I covered shifts. If the captain wasn’t there, I acted in his capacity. Just various, you know, responsibilities. MR. BJ: 39=oIt was not in custody, it was more, you said administrative? EFTA00117436

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11 MS. BRM: 39s Well, the administrative lieutenant is part of the custody department, because everything I did involved officers and lieutenants. MR. MMM: 9=Okay. And in terms, I know there is an operations lieutenant. There is an activities lieutenant. MS. Ei: 3 Mm-hmm. MR. $MM: §9=And where would you fall under? Like, do you work side by side with them, or is there a separate department that : Well, we worked on the same But I don’t do the same duties that Okay. . So, I would be there with them, but they would be covering the shift. I had nothing to do with the shift itself. You know, the trips that went out, or the work assignments or whatever. I would do the work assignments prior to them actually working on that day. So, as the administrative lieutenant, my responsibility was to generate the daily rosters, and the quarterly rosters, EFTA00117437

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WOAHUO SWNHE 12 and give those to the lieutenants, and then they did whatever they needed to do with them. MR. MMMM: 9Okay. And who reported to you directly? MS. MBM: 9 The officers reported to me. And that was pretty much it. MR. BER: Which officers? MS. QM: §9=All of them, because I did all of their schedules. So, they came to me if they had an issue, or they needed time off, they had an issue with their schedule. They were out on workman’s comp. Or, you know, anything dealing with leave time, or anything, they came to me. MR. MMM: §9=Okay. And you mentioned that you would coordinate training for the employees? MS. Ei: = Mm-hmm. MR. BRR: 9=What kind of trainings? MS. BRM: 39s The quarterly mandatory trainings that we were required to do. Our annual trainings that we were required to do. Regular annual refresher training. Firearms training. I had to do all of - schedule all of that. EFTA00117438

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13 MR. BMJ: 9oOkay. And did you schedule all of that, the quarterly training, the annual refresher training, all that, in 2019? MS. BM: 3=Yes. Mm-hmnm. MR. BBM: 3=How is it documented if employees received training? MS. BRM: 9 So, which training are we talking about? Just any, or -? MR. EM: | Just -- MR. QM: 9 Just -. MR. SMM: «_ -- specifically, we talked about the SHU quarterly training, and the annual refresher training. MS. BRM: «Okay. So, for the annual refresher training, Human Resources would normally get with me. They would tell me the dates that they wanted to do annual refresher training. And what I would do is go onto the roster program. They would let me know how many staff to put in each day. I would go into the program. I would assign them, and then, I would back fill their positions with a non- custody staff member. So, that was documented on every quarterly roster. So, what I used to do was, because I EFTA00117439

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WOAHUO SWNHE 14 sat with the union, to determine which non- custody staff member went to what post, I would keep that, I would have them bid on what they wanted to work. And I would keep that documentation in the administrative office with me. As far as the quarterly training goes, every quarter, any staff member who bid to work in SHU - in the Special Housing Unit, I’m sorry. Any staff member that bid to work there, they had to go through mandatory quarterly training. So, what I would do is, I would get with the SHU lieutenant to figure out a date. It has to be completed before the new quarter starts. And he would tell me whatever - he or she - would tell me whatever date they wanted to do it. Every staff member that was on the quarterly roster, that would be in SHU, was scheduled to attend that training. We would do it in a classroom setting, for, like, a four- hour block. And all I would do was schedule the training, let the SHU lieutenant know, make sure he had the post orders, because all field office the staff who were going to be up there was supposed to go through the post orders, and EFTA00117440

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15 read them, and sign them. And he would the training, and then just give me the sign in sheet for everybody that attended. MR. ER: Okay. MR. MBM: 9 And prior to them actually starting their rotation in the SHU, this training would have to be completed. MS. BRM: =SsYes. MR. BMJ: §=All right. And it’s a mandatory training? MS. BR: Ss Yes. MR. QM: 9 And what topics does the training cover? MS. BRM: 9 We have a Special Housing Unit slide down. That’s the normal training. MR. BRM: 9s Yeah. MS. BRM: 39But what the training should cover, outside of them doing that slide show, that SHU, normally the SHU lieutenant does the training. Outside of that slide show, they should be discussing with them how to operate the SHU program. We have psychology come in and do a class on suicide prevention. Hunger strikes. They should be talking to them about how to fill out the documentation for 292s. WOAHUO SWNHE EFTA00117441

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WOAHUO SWNHE 16 Just anything dealing with SHU, period, that lieutenant is supposed to go over it with them, as well as have them watch that slide show. MR. BMJ: 39=So, are they allowed to work in the SHU without getting that training? MS. BRM: 39=Yes. However, they shouldn’t because that training is documented. Every quarter, we have to send to the region that it was completed. And it also gets, I believe it gets keyed into their training file with Human Resources. MR. QM: «Ss And who was required to ensure that they receive that training? MS. BRM: 9 The SHU lieutenant. MR. BMJ: Okay. And then, what would your role be in that? Like, if someone didn’t actually - someone would bid for that quarterly position, and actually wasn’t able, for whatever reason, to attend the actual quarterly training, for the SHU, what is the protocol? What should have taken place? MS. BRM: 39=So, if, just say for instance, can I give an example -- MR. SNM: Absolutely. MS. MMM: Ss -- okay. So, just say for EFTA00117442

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WOAHUO SWNHE 17 instance a staff member was out on a workman’s comp. They had missed the SHU training for that reason, or they were on annual leave. When they come back to work, I would coordinate it with the SHU lieutenant, to have that person go over the training with them. And then, they would come back and make sure that they sign that they completed the training. And again, I kept that stored in, on file in my office. In the admin office. MR. SRM: «All right. So, it sounds like you were the one who kind of keeps records of who has done it, and who has not. You then coordinate it with the SHU lieutenant, and say if this person needs to take it. And then, after they take it, they are supposed to come to you and sign it? MS. BRM: 3No. Not -. After they take it, I would give the SHU lieutenant the sign-in sheet. MR. BN: Okay. MS. BRM: 9 Because that person should sign for the date that they actually completed the training. MR. MN: Okay. EFTA00117443

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WOIKHRU &WNHE 18 MS. BM: 9s So, the sign-in sheet would have everybody that actually attended on the scheduled day, and then the names of the people who still needed to attend it. And once they do it, they are supposed to sign, and sign for the date that they do it. MR. : Okay. MR. BRM: 39So, my next question would have been, if any employee was not able to attend training, was there a makeup training session involved? MS. BR: =Ss Yes. MR. QM: 39=And that would be not by you, that would be by the SHU lieutenant? MS. MRM: Ss Yes. MR. QM: «9s Okay. And do they normally get training? How long is the SHU training? How long does it normally take? The quarterly training. MS. HRM: 9=We usually schedule it for a four-hour block. MR. $M: 3=For how many days? MS. MRM: 9oOne. Just one day. MR. BRR: 39 So, one day, four hours? MS. BRR: 3 Mm-hmm. =I would schedule EFTA00117444

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WOAHUO SWNHE 19 everybody for that one day, for four hours. MR. BMJ: And let’s say if somebody missed it, and they came back, they would have to sit through that four hours? MS. BRM: 3=Well, once I would tell the SHU lieutenant this person is back, you got to make sure that they complete the training. I’m not sure how he went about doing it with them. Because I didn’t attend the training. I never attended the training. I just scheduled it. MR. $MM: Who schedules the trainers? Who picks the trainers and schedules them to teach the class? MS. BRM: 93Well, any lieutenant can teach training for the Special Housing Unit. During annual refresher training, every year when we do it, it’s a lieutenant assigned to do it. MR. BRM: So, normally, it’s a lieutenant. So, in this case, if a C.0O. missed the training, they come back, the lieutenant can technically give the full training? MS. MRM: 39s They can. MR. BRM: 9 Okay. And how soon after they come back from training should the EFTA00117445

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WOIKHRU &WNHE 20 lieutenant give them a training? MS. BMJ: 39=Right away, if they are going to have them in SHU. I would -. I tried my best - because I was the admin lieutenant there for a long time - so, I tried my best to keep up with that, to make sure, as soon as this person came back, they did whatever they needed to do. MR. : Okay. MS. : But I can I -- MR. : Yeah. Sure. MS. : —-- say something? MR. : Yeah. MR. : Absolutely. MS. : Because you had asked me, can a person work in the Special Housing Unit without the training, and like I said, yes, but they shouldn’t. However, you had a lot of non- custody staff who weren’t required to take this training. Because they weren’t in correctional services. MR. QJ: «But the quarterly bidded people -- MS. : The quarterly bidded people EFTA00117446

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WOIKHRU &WNHE MR. : -- were required. MS. : —-- had to do it. MR. : Right. MS. : That was it. MR. : Okay. MR. : Yes. MR. : Do you recall a cC.O. by the name of Tova Noel? MS. : Yes. MR. : Do you know if in that quarter that - this would be June, July, August of 2019 - if she was one of those C.0O.s that bidded for the SHU? MS. : I don’t remember. I think she got a relief post in SHU, if I’m not mistaken, and I do remember, she was out for a while because she had injured, I don’t know if it was her ankle or something. She was out on workman’s comp. So, around that time, when we did the training, she wasn’t there. MR. : She wasn’t there. MS. : Hmm-mm. MR. : Now -. MR. : Whoa, whoa. So, what happened if she wasn’t there? EFTA00117447

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22 MS. BMJ: 39Once she came back, the SHU lieutenant would have gotten with her to get with her to have her take care of it, and have Okay. Go ahead. : Okay. Is this the mandatory quarterly SHU training for 2019? MS. BRM: 3s Yes. MR. : The dates shows 6/6/2019? MS. SE: 39 Mn-hmn. MR. QJ: Is that the -? MS. BRM: 39s Yeah. I’m sorry. Yes. MR. MMM: 9=Okay. And that is the sign- in sheet? MS. BJ: 39s Yes. . MN: Okay. MR. HN: «32 So, on the sign-in sheet, it shows different dates on it. Do you know what they would represent? MS. HMM: 9 So, as I said, the difference dates would be because, when we actually had this training, these people probably weren’t here. So, once they came back, they had to do the training, and sign that they completed it on the date that they WOIKHRU &WNHE EFTA00117448

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WoOWIHDO &WNrH 23 completed it. MR. QM: «And for any of these people, did you review the training with me, or was it always the SHU lieutenant that was supposed to review the training with them? MS. BRM: 3=No. I never did the training with them. It was always the SHU lieutenant, or whoever was assigned to SHU at that time. MR. BMJ: So, ~with this sign-in sheet, would you, did you give that sign-in sheet to the lieutenant to have them sign, or would you go to the employee themselves and have them sign it? MS. BRM: 9=No. I gave this to the lieutenant. MR. BMJ: «All right. So, in this instance, we spoke with Tova Noel. She is claiming that you went directly to her with this, and asked her to sign it. Do you recall that? MS. BE: 39 No. VR. No? MS. BRM: 39oNo. I remember speaking to her, and she returned back to work, from her EFTA00117449

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WOIKHRU &WNHE 24 injury, and I told her she had to do the training. MR. EM: «Okay. MS. BRM: 39s But I didn’t have her sign this. MR. ERRRNNMJ: 3S Dos you remember her saying -. So, she returned to work on or around June 24th of 2021. Mm—-hmm. MR. WEN:_—s_s The SHU was her quarterly : 2019. Sorry. Hs 32 -- sorry. 2019. The SHU was her quarterly bidded post. And she says that, on the 26th, is when she signed, that you came to her directly and said, you have to sign this, and she said she didn’t get it from the lieutenant. She got it directly from you. Does that -- MS. BE: 39 No. MR. SNM: «_ --— sring a bell at all? MS. BR: 39 No. rR. All right. We just want to read you some quotes from her transcript. Just to see, you know, what your response is to EFTA00117450

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WOAHUO SWNHE this. We asked her, "Who was your direct supervisor?" And she said, “Lieutenant -" Would that be accurate? No. So, you didn’t believe that you were her direct supervisor? MS. BRM: 39=oWell, the operations lieutenant on her shift, or the activities lieutenant on her shift was her direct supervisor. MR. SMI: Okay. So, that changes every day, but I guess if we had one specific that was a constant, would that be you? MS. BM: 3No. She was dealing with me while she was out on workman’s comp, because while she was out, I was the one getting her doctor’s notes, and calling to check on her, or if she had, like, a CA-7 that needed to be filled out, so she can keep getting paid, I had to fill that out. MR. BMJ: «Ss Okay. So, while she was out, up until at least the 24th of - June - 2019, that’s why she considered you her supervisor, because you were the one dealing directly with her? EFTA00117451

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: I’m assuming. MR. BR: Okay. : : But once she returned to whoever that shift lieutenant was, would be who she would deal with. MR. RM: «Okay. So then, we asked, it says - and this is me speaking - "You mentioned you didn’t remember ever going to quarterly SHU training. This is a sign-in sheet for quarterly SHU training. I just want you to, is this your signature on there for June 26th, 2019?" And she responds, “You see how I’m the last one on the bottom of all of them?" I say, “Correct." She says, “Because I wasn’t at the training when I came in," she responded. "Did they provide it to you one on one, though?" She said, "No." I said, "So, how come?" She said, "Because when I came back from an injury, the lieutenant asked me to sign because when they had program review, they need to show that I received the training. But I never did. She just asked me to sign." "That’s why I wonder why, who asked you to do that?" I said. And she said, "Lieutenant " EFTA00117452

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WOAHUO SWNHE 27 MS. Si: 3 Mm-hmn. MR. SN: 3S I said, "So, that supervisor you mentioned was your first line supervisor, asked you to sign without providing you the training?" She said, "Yes." I said, "And she didn’t, like, provide you anything to review?" She said, "No." And I said, "She didn’t go over anything with you?" She said, "No." I said, "Did you discuss this with her, that how can you sign something without being provided the training?" She said, “Well, I just told her I wasn’t here. I was out on an injury. She said she knows, but she needed me to sign it because they need it for a program review." I said, "What’s her first name?" And she responded, ba ." I said, “And is she a lieutenant?" And Noel said, "“She’s a - I don’t know what she is now - but she is not at MCC anymore. She’s at somewhere in Jersey." So, with all that being said, what is your response to Ms. Noel, with her statements to us? MS. BRM: 9=oHer statement is partially true. MR. MM: Okay. EFTA00117453

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WOAHUO SWNHE 28 MS. BM: 39s I did explain to her that she needed to complete the training because we had to have it done for our program review. However, I had her do that training with the SHU lieutenant. I would have never had her sign something that she didn’t review. And the reason why her name is last on that list is because she came back to work at that time. MR. BRM: Okay. So -. MR. BRM: Did you ask her to sign the document for the program review, prior to the program review, without her actually taking the training? MS. BMJ: 3oNo. I explained to her that she had to complete the training because when we had our program review, they review these documents, and that is part of what they call our working papers. And if one person has - or whoever - has it missed, we get a write-up for that. MR. $M: Did you speak with Lieutenant GM, and instruct him that, hey, listen, he needs to give Tova Noel the training? MS. HR: 3s Yes. MR. MBM: 3=And did he ever confirm with EFTA00117454

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WOIKHRU &WNHE 29 you that he did provide it to her? MS. BRR: 3oNo. I just got the sign-in sheet back with her name signed. MR. BJ: Oh, so, you didn’t give it to her. You gave it to the lieutenant. And -- MS. BRR: 39s Yeah. MR. BRM: 39 -- the lieutenant got her to sign in, and provide it back to you? MS. HR: —=Ss Yes. MR. BRM: ss So, she is saying you came directly to her. She didn’t get any training from either Lieutenant J, who was the SHU lieutenant at the time, or provided any kind of sheets to review. She said - and we can go into greater detail of what she said -- MS. Si: = Mm-hmn. MR. NMJ: «3S -- but she said that you didn’t, when she said this to you, you said, I just need it for the program review, and you asked her not to date it, and she said that she intentionally wanted to date it, to show what date that she did this on. MS. QM: 39 That’s not accurate at all. MR. BMJ: «Ss Okay. So, please, explain to us. And just for the record, we are EFTA00117455

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WOAHUO SWNHE 30 not saying that what she said was accurate. That’s why we’re asking you -- MS. SS: _ Mm-hmm. -- to just clarify all of of what exact ly happened. : No. The only conversation that. she and I had, and if I remember correctly, it was on her first day back, if I am not mistaken. Her first day back to work, because she came to me to find out where she was working. And when we had that conversation, I did say to her that she had to complete the training, you know, because we got to make sure we are in line with everything for program review. But I never gave her anything So, when she says you specifically gave her this sign-in sheet, you are saying you did not? MS. BM: 39No. I didnot. AndI definitely didn’t tell her not to date it. MR. QM: «All right. So, when she says that, you know, let’s go back and read it. She specifically says, “Because when I came back from an injury, the lieutenant asked me to EFTA00117456

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WOIKHRU &WNHE 31 sign because when they had program review, they need to show that I received the training, but I never did. She just asked me to sign." So, her saying that you asked her to sign that, is inaccurate? MS. BR: Ss Yes, it is. MR. BMJ: «Ss Okay. And are you confident with that? Because this is, like, an under oath. She was under oath, and you are 108 under oath. So, now -- - a: Mm—hmm. _, Ee: 39 «2Cwe have two discrepancies of what happened. MS. BRM: 3s Yes. I am confident with that. MR. SRM: |S (Dos you recall, specifically? Can you place yourself back into that conversation? Do you remember specifically this happening or not happening? MS. MMM: 3S I remember specifically speaking to her about it. And I told her she had to complete the training, but I did not have her sign anything. Okay. I didn’t. I did tell her EFTA00117457

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WOIKHRU &WNHE 32 that, after she did the training, she was going to have to sign the sheet. And I told her she had to complete it because of program review. I did do that. MR. QM: Okay. Do you recognize - hold on - this stuff that we are giving you here. Can you just let us know what this information is? And what the sign-in sheet MS. BRM: «Okay. So, this is another sign-in sheet for training. This one would for the -. Dr. QRRRRENNJ was the chief psychologist. So, that would be discussing suicide training. MR. SN: Ss Just -. MS. BRM: 9 This is -. MR. QM: «Ss So, that one was suicide prevention training? This one was. Yes. : Okay. . This is Dr. BE, again, but this is a different training. This was 2018. MR. QM: Okay. So, the one that we are on top, though, that is the sign-in for, it says June 6, 2019. And then, again, on the EFTA00117458

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WOIKHRU &WNHE 33 bottom, it says T. Noel. MS. BM: 39s Yes. MR. QJ: «Ss And then, does it have a date next to that one, too? MS. MM: 39s June 26. MR. BRM: ss Okay. So, that was also the June 26, 2019. So, it looks like she had the quarterly, the quarterly post training, or quarterly, what do you call it -- MR. BRM: SHU training. MR. BMJ: «Ss -- SHU training. And then, the suicide prevention training, both signed on the same date. MS. EE: 3 Mm-hmm. MR. QM: «Ss Did you give that - either one of those - sign-in sheets directly to Ms. Noel? MS. BRM: 9 No. MR. EE: 9 No. MS. BRM: 39 Because Dr. EJ would keep her own sheet. And also, the SHU lieutenant, who completed the training, that person would get a copy of this, as well. And then, when everything was completed, they would give me back the sign-in sheets. EFTA00117459

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34 MR. BMJ: Okay. So, if this was all completed, if the training was done on June 6, 2019, when would you get the sign-in sheets? MS. BEM: 9 Whenever the SHU lieutenant brought them to me. Brought them back to me. MR. SMM: Okay. So, in this case, do you believe it would have been some time shortly after June 6, 2019? MS. BR: )3=Well, I don’t remember that. But I do remember, because these other people who weren’t there, they had to do the exact same thing, and the SHU lieutenant got with all of all them, and had them all do their training, and sign for their days. I didn’t do any of these people’s. MR. QM: Okay. So, and the fact that, when was the - prior to T. Noel - when was the last date on that? June, it looks the 23rd, and June 20th. . : Okay. So, the two prior were both in the 20s. And you don’t believe you went direct to either of those two, either? MS. BM: 39No. I didn’t. MR. MMM: So, do you -- EFTA00117460

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35 MS. HR: =I didn’t. MR. QM: ss --— dio you believe that Lieutenant - would it have been Lieutenant 9 that would have provided this to you, when it was all done? Yes. Okay. So, he wouldn’t have provided that back to you until after June 26, 2019, after Ms. Noel signed? MS. MMM: 3No. Because at the time, if I had this, then the last person before her was June 23rd. So, [BMJ took care of all of these people, and then, he gave it back to me. I can’t remember if he just came back after the 6th, when everybody was done, and got it. Or if he came back. Because I kept them in a binder. I keep all of these in a binder, in the admin lieutenant’s office. So, all he had to do was just come get the binder. You see what I’m saying? So, he could have came and got it, had them do whatever they needed to do. And the sheet would have already been in the binder. And then, he keeps the copy from Dr. HMMM». «2s swell. They are supposed to keep a binder in the SHU lieutenant’s office, with EFTA00117461

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WOAHUO SWNHE these same forms. MR. RRM: ss Okay. So, on this specific training, this is, these were the statements that were made, I said, "So, there is another training that you - it says that you conducted on also June 26th, 2019, for SHU suicide prevention training. Did you also not receive that training?" Ms. Noel responded, "Yeah. I didn’t." I responded, "You did not receive that training?" She said, "No." I said, "Did you receive -. So, there’s slides in the back that show that the training, shows the training and how they conducted it. Did they provide you with those slides?" And she responded, "No because I wasn’t there." I said, "You weren’t there?" And she responds, "I was out on injury." I said, "Okay. Can you - when were you out on injury? What were the dates?" And she responded, "From March 2019 to I came back in June. So, when I came back in June, that’s when I was told to sign this." Again, is this - you believe it’s Lieutenant QM that actually told her to sign it? MS. MMMM: )3=oIt should have been. Yes. EFTA00117462

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WoOWIHDO &WNrH MR. MS. MR. MS. : MR. : And are you confident it wasn’t you? MS. BRM: 9 To my recollection, yes. MR. QM: Okay.) Shortly there later, I said, "But when you came back, was it around the 26th when they asked you to sign those?" And she responded, "I came back in June. I don’t recall the date exactly." I said, "Okay." She said, "But I remember the day I came back into work, and the lieutenant asked me to go see Lieutenant QJ. And she asked me to sign, and I said, but I wasn’t here. I was out on injury. And she said she’s aware, but they need me to sign for program review." I said, "Okay." She said, "So, I signed." And I said, "So, both trainings, when you signed, they didn’t actually ever provide you anything?" She said, "No." I said, “Verbally? Electronically? Nothing?" She said, "No." I said, “Okay. And that was on the date that was signed that that EFTA00117463

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WOAHUO SWNHE 38 happened?" Ms. Noel said, "Actually, she told me not to date it. I remember when I was signing. She said, don’t date it." And I said, "But you dated it anyway? Did you have a conversation about that?" And she said, "No." I said, “After you dated it, she didn’t say, why did you date it? Or anything like that?" She responded, "No." So, she is saying all of this time, that specifically, that the lieutenant said to go see you, and that you had her sign this information. MS. HRM: 9=That is not true. MR. BMJ: «Ss It’s not accurate? MS. MRM: 39No. It’s not. And if the lieutenant that was on shift would have told her to come to see me, it was her first day back. So, when they returned to work for a work-related injury, they are supposed to bring in a note from the doctor, clearing them to be back at work. So, she would have came to see me, to give me a copy of that note. Because in order for her to work, she had to have that note from her doctor. MR. MM: Okay. EFTA00117464

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39 MS. BRM: 39 That, and also, too, probably to find out about what her schedule would be, or where she is supposed to be working at. That’s the only thing that I could think of. But we did have the conversation about the training. But at no time did I ask her to sign anything. MR. QM: Okay. So, what conversation did you have about the training? MS. HMM: 32oI just told her that she needed to complete the training. Because part of her post - if I remember right - it was a relief post. So, I don’t think she was assigned to SHU every day. MR. RM: Now, did you maybe tell her sign this training, sign this form, because I have a program review up. Go do your training. Don’t date it because you didn’t do the training yet? MS. HMM: 3oNo. I would have never told her to sign it, because she hadn’t completed it. And I definitely would not have told her not to date it. MR. BMJ: «Okay. Because again, she is saying - and this is a question I asked - EFTA00117465

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WoOWIHDO &WNrH 40 "But did you do this per the direction of your supervisor?" She said, “Supervisor, yes." And I said, "So, did she specifically say you must sign this?" Ms. Noel said, "Yes." And I said, "Okay. And again, that was ERRRMMe" And Ms. Noel said, "(MM." So, she is claiming, under oath, under penalty of, you know, you know, of perjury, which is a criminal offense, which is - again - you are under oath. MS. SE: 39 Mn-hmn. MR. SMM: «Ss That you specifically told her to sign this. That’s where I just wanted -. I don’t want to trip up, because this right now is more of an administrative thing. MS. Si: = Mm-hmn. MR. SNM: «SI don’t want to bring it to a criminal. MS. Ei: 3 Mn-hmn. MR. BN: If, you know, under oath, under the penalties of perjury, which is statute 18 USC 1001, false statements, are you confident that you did not ask her to sign this? MS. BRM: 3SsYes. I am. EFTA00117466

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41 MR. SMM: Okay. So, even though she has her attorneys present when this is happening, and she is specifically saying, throughout all of these questions, I, A : MS. BRM: 9=sYes. Because she dealt with me the whole time that she was out of work. And again, like I said, I believe I got her to talk to her on her first day back to work. MR. Si: = Mm-hmm. MS. BHR: 39 So, I do not, at no time, ever recall telling her to sign anything, or not date anything. I do remember telling her she had to complete this training, because she was assigned to SHU. If you guys look at these other dates, for all these other people, and I’m just saying -- MR. i: = Mm—hmm. MS. BR: «9=-- I know they don’t have anything to do with it. They’re all the same just like hers. When they came back, the SHU lieutenant got with them - and these are all different dates, same thing - to have them complete this training. I didn’t have them do it. EFTA00117467

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42 MR. EM: Okay. MR. QJ: Are those all SHU employees? Can you verify -- MS. BM: «9s At s the time -- MR. QM: «9 -- at the time. MS. BR: ~=-- yes, they were. MR. SMM: «All right. So, if we go and speak with Lieutenant QB, do you believe he is going to say, yes, I had her sign this? MS. HRM: 3=I would hope so. MR. QM: Okay. But you are absolutely confident - under oath, again, you could be prosecuted if we find out you are lying - that this, you did not have her sign these documents? MS. BRM: 3=No. I did not have her sign these. I do not recall having her sign these at all. MR. SN: | Okay. MS. BRM: «Ss At so all. MR. SMM: «Ss And who do you believe had her sign these? MS. QM: 39It should have been the SHU lieutenant. MR. MN: Okay. EFTA00117468

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43 MS. BRM: 39That took care of that. MR. QM: «Ss And again, do you believe, it sounded like you said that the SHU lieutenant could have come into your office, retrieved these documents, and -- MS. BM: 39s Well -- MR. NM: «9s -- had her sign it? MS. MRM: 39s -- the binder for the sign- in sheets for the Special Housing Unit was in my office. Because I kept up with all of these. I maintained all of these forms, just to make sure that everybody stayed up on what it was that they were supposed to do, because when we have our program review, those documents would be reviewed in the office that I worked in. We all were responsible for them. It wasn’t just me. My office was opened. Every lieutenant had a key to it. MR. Si: 3 Mm-hmm. MS. BRM: §9=And I am not at all saying that QB) would have come in my office and taken some something that he shouldn’t have taken, or whatever the case may be. I remember having a conversation with J to tell him, when these people come back to work, they need EFTA00117469

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WOIKHRU &WNHE 44 to get their SHU training done, because all of these people were out on the 6th, when the training occurred. MR. BMJ: «Ss Okay. And you recall specifically telling Ms. Noel, get the training done? MS. BRM: 39oI recall specifically telling her she had to do the training. MR. SR: Okay. But you are positive you didn’t have her sign those documents? ME: = Yes. : Okay. WN:—«s As: far as I can recall, yes, I am positive I didn’t. : : Okay. Great. So, I guess we’ll have to revisit that with Lieutenant JBM. Sorry. I hand it back to you. I just figured it was better for me to read it. MR. BM: 39 Yeah. MR. QM: «9 Being that I was the one on this transcript. MR. BMJ: No problem. It looks like we covered some of them. So, just to clarify, who EFTA00117470

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WOIKHRU &WNHE 45 was responsible to make sure that all employees received the trainings? MS. MRR: 39s You mean for SHU? MR. BNNs: «For the SHU. Who was responsible to make sure that all the SHU employees received mandatory quarterly SHU training? MS. : The SHU lieutenant. MR. : Okay. MS. HRM: 9And me. And me. MR. EM: = You. MS. BRR: 9 Because I scheduled it. MR. QM: Okay. And if they are not - if those employees - are not there, when they come back, who is responsible to make sure that, hey, listen, it’s taking - they receive the training? I know you mentioned that you make sure that they come back and sign the sheet. But who actually is supposed to give them the training? MS. BRM: «Ss Well, I didn’t say that they come back and sign the sheet. I said that, when they come back, they are supposed to complete the training, and then sign the sheet. MR. QM: Okay. So, and the SHU EFTA00117471

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WOAHUO SWNHE 46 lieutenant is responsible to make sure that they get the training? MS. BM: Ss Yes. MR. BN: Okay. MS. MRM: 39 And the administrative lieutenant. However, it’s not written anywhere. As the administrative lieutenant, that’s just what I did. All administrative lieutenants don’t do that. Because SHU is SHU. It belongs to the SHU lieutenant. But because we had gotten a bad rating on our previous reviews, pretty much, they had me maintaining all of our paperwork. So, I kept med trips. I kept rosters. I kept daily security inspections. And whatever paperwork that had to do with correctional services, I was responsible for maintaining it. So, this was something that I just maintained on my own, to make sure that it got done. So that, the department, as a whole, when the time came, wouldn’t get written up for it. MR. QM: Is there a possibility that, when Noel came back to work, you told her, hey, listen, sign off on the paperwork of the sign- in sheet, saying that you received the training EFTA00117472

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47 because you are back to work, sign off on it, and have the SHU lieutenant provide you the training? MS. EE: 3 No. MR. MMMM: Is it standard practice for employees to sign the sheet, even if they never received the training? MS. BRM: 3oNo. It shouldn’t be. I don’t have them do that. MR. QM: Has there been instances, that you are aware of, where an employee was signed the sheet, and that employee never received the training? MS. BM: 39=oNot that I am aware of. MR. QM: This is the first incident you -? MS. BM: 9oWell, this is the first time I’m even hearing about any of this, with her. Because I knew she came back to work, and she was supposed to have the training. MR. SMM: «9 (Dos you know if she conducted the training or not? MS. QM: 3=oI have no idea. MR. MJ: «So, =you are not even sure if she did or not? WOIKHRU &WNHE EFTA00117473

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MS. HR: 39No. Hmm-mm. MR. QR: 39=And being that -. MR. QM: «But «when you spoke with her about the need for her to take the training, tell me a little bit more about that conversation. What did she say? MS. BRM: 9 She just said, okay. Noel really didn’t talk -. Can I -? MR. MS. MR. MS. MR. : You know, again, this is MS. MRM: )9= Noel really didn’t talk a lot. To any of us. You know what I’m saying? She would come to work, when she would come to work. And she would do whatever it is that she needed to do, but as far as my interactions with her, it was really only during her times of needing some time off, or scheduling. She may have needed to work a different shift, or whatever the case may be. So, we really never actually had long conversations or anything like that. It was always business, like, as it EFTA00117474

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WOAHUO SWNHE 49 should be. You know what I’m saying? Supervisor to subordinate. And like I said, when she came in that day, if I remember right, it was her first day back. MR. BRM: That you had a conversation with her? MS. BRM: 9Yeah. Because she would have had to give me that letter, saying that she was cleared to be back at work. But during that day, is “when she signed these documents? : : I don’t know. ME: Okay. . BN: «9s I’m not sure if it was during that day or not. I talked to her, and I told her she had to complete the SHU training. I do remember saying that to her. MR. QM: Okay. Now, this is going to be the last part of the transcript that I read, where I said to Ms. Noel, “And what do you —- now that you have experience this - what do you blame that on? Do you also blame it on, like, poor management, or, like, the lack of manpower? What are your thoughts on that?" Ms. Noel responded, “It’s both, but every time EFTA00117475

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WOAHUO SWNHE 50 something happens, the officers get in trouble. And the problem is, it starts from the Because if my supervisor is telling me falsify documents, and I do it, I’m in trouble. But Lieutenant MRR got promoted. You understand? Like, the problem starts from the top, and it comes all the way down." So, she maintained, throughout the entire interview -— this is now page 449 of the interview -- MS. ER: = Mm-hmm. MR. : -- this was you. You specifically. So, if you are saying you 100 percent didn’t do this, why would she say that you were the one? Does she have an axe to grind with you? Is there something -. MS. HRM: 3=We had no problems with each other, that I’m aware of. But again, we didn’t, we didn’t have regular interactions with each other. Because when she came to work, she was not on my shift. First of all. When she was at work, she barely ever worked the day shift, if I remember. And I was at work during the day shift. If she had an issue on the shift with anything, she wouldn’t have come to me. EFTA00117476

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WOAHUO SWNHE 51 She would have went to the operations or the activities lieutenant. She was injured, if I remember, I think it was her ankle, but I’m not sure what it was. But once she got injured, that’s really more when our interactions started with each other, because she was out of work for such a long time. But we didn’t have any problems with each other whatsoever. MR. BRN: So, ~why do you believe that she would have stated, with such clarity, that you had her sign those documents, as opposed to Lieutenant QB, who we discussed also, with regarding being the SHU lieutenant? MS. MBM: 9 Probably because I was the first person that spoke to her about it, and when she came back to work. That would be the only thing that I can think of. MR. : Okay. Do you think she took it on herself to, then, sign it? After the conversation with you, as opposed to you actually physically handing her the documents? MS. BRM: 3=oNo. I didn’t give her the - MR. MN: That's -- EFTA00117477

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WOIKHRU &WNHE 52 MS. HR: 39s -- the forms to sign. MR. QM: «Ss -- right. That’s what I’m saying is, like, do you think, in her mind, you said you needed to conduct the SHU training and sign the form, or something to that effect. Then she took it on herself to just go sign the form, without ever actually taking the training? MS. BRM: 3= I couldn’t answer that, sir. I’m sorry. I don’t know what she was thinking. MR. SNM: 9s Yeah. No. I mean, we just have to -. So, if she is stating this, and if we go to Lieutenant QM, and he says, I didn’t have her sign it, I’m just trying - we’re just, we got to try to, you know -- MS. BRR: 39s Because -- MR. SN: «3s -- as you know, with this investigation, there are a ton of different elements. MS. SE: 39 Mn-hmn. MR. SNM: 39S This is just one of many. MS. EE: 3 Mm-hmn. MR. QRNNMMJ: | But swe have to reconcile them. MS. SE: 39 Mm-hmm. EFTA00117478

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53 MR. SNM: Ss So, =you know, all of this will be written up in, like, a, you know, a report and all that. So, it’s just one of those things that we have got to make sure that we have, to the best of our ability, a reconciliation for each element, and this has to do with a staff member not receiving the proper training, and also, according to her, being instructed by her supervisor to specifically sign when the supervisor knew that she didn’t conduct the training. Es: —Mm—hmm. : So, again, just, I do “to emphasize that this is under oath. So, would be, like, if you were in a court of s: = Mim-hmm. That you are confident your statements. : Mm-hmm. Yes. I don’t - “tr said - I don’t recall having her sign anything. MR. MM: Okay. MS. BRM: 9 Because I wouldn’t have done that. I told her she had to complete the EFTA00117479

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WoOWIHDO &WNrH 54 training. Now, once she left my office and once she got up in SHU, and got with the SHU lieutenant, I don’t know if the training was ever completed. MR. BN: Right. MS. BRR: 3= I wouldn’t know that. MR. EM: At -- MS. BRM: 39 I wouldn’t. MR. SN: «ss -- at the time, though, on June 26th, 2019, would have this sign-in sheet been in that folder that you referred to? MS. BRM: 9=Yes. It would have been in that binder that I had. It should have been, anyway, because —- MR. BMJ: All right. MS. BRM: 9 -- again, once the SHU lieutenant completed the training, and got both of the sheets back from the chief psychologist, then they would bring me the sheets, and then I would put them in the binder. So, these other people that did their training, he had them sign off the sheet that we already have from the 6th. And then, he knew where the binder was. And again, I’m not saying that he did anything at all. [ERB, I’m saying. But I kept EFTA00117480

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WOIKHRU &WNHE 55 these forms, and I had them in the binder. And I do not, at no time, remember telling her to sign anything that she didn’t do the training for. MR. QM: And did she, would she have had the ability to - sorry, the ability - to obtain those sign-in sheets from your binder MS. BR: 3 No. MR. QM: «ss --— and sent them herself? MS. BR: 39 No. MR. QJ: «3S No. She couldn’t have done that? MS. ER: 3=No. MR. QRRRNMM:_—s So, either yourself or Lieutenant [BJ would have had to have actually obtained those sheets, and asked her to sign? MS. MMM: Ss Yes. MR. SRM: Ss So, one of the two of you had to have actually had her sign those forms? MS. BR: =Ss Yes. MR. SRM: «Ss And that just goes back to the confusion of, why would she specifically say you, and - again, throughout - with such clarity, as opposed to Lieutenant (i? EFTA00117481

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56 MS. BR: 3S I don’t know. I do not know. And to be honest with you, if she spoke to MBMM about it, and whatever transpired between the two of them, as far as the training is concerned, I don’t know. But she did sign that form on her own, and she wasn’t forced to do it, and I didn’t threaten her with program review. I did explain to her that everybody that was in SHU had to complete that training, so that we wouldn’t get written up for program review. MR. QR: «Ss And when you had that conversation with her, were either the binder, were those sheets on your desk? MS. BRM: 3=No. Not that I -. No. Not that I remember. MR. QM: «Okay. So, it wasn’t, like, you know, this sheet, this sign-in sheet is here, and you were just having this conversation, like, you know, not telling her sign here, date here, but saying, like, you need to complete this training, and it would be sitting right there for her to sign? MS. EJ: No. I would have told (iy she’s back, she got to do the SHU training. EFTA00117482

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57 MR. SMM: «Okay. And did she sign either of these training documents that are on the table, in your presence? MS. BM: 39 No. Not that I -. No. Not that I recall, she didn’t. No. MR. BRM: Okay. Sorry. Go ahead. MR. BRM: No problem. Now, this training takes about four hours? MS. BRM: = It’s set up for four hours. It doesn’t have to be four hours. Maybe the SHU lieutenant can go over everything with him, and then, they will go up to SHU, do shake downs, or whatever. But it’s set for a four- hour block, and that’s in case somebody comes in late, or whatever. MR. $MM: §9=But you should at least take two hours, three hours, to go over all the material? MS. BRM: «9s Well, not necessarily. Because if she - and I’m sorry, I said - if she was coming back to work, he could have just had her review the slide show. You know what I’m saying? Everything else, the only thing that is actually required that they do is the slide show. Everything else is kind of just us EFTA00117483

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WOAHUO SWNHE 58 adding to it. They got to do the slide show. And they’ re supposed to do the suicide prevention training. And site does the suicide prevention training. MR. MMMM: Now, the slide show, would he have manually handed it to her, or is that something he would have emailed her? MS. MMMM: 39s He wouldn’t have to email that to her. She can log in and on her own. It’s in the - well, at the time, it was, it’s called Blue (Phonetic Sp. *00:46:13) now. The training site for the courses. But I’m not sure, then, if they were using Blue. I think it was just in the G-drive for annual training. Saved in the computer, on the - for annual training. MR. ERR: 9=On, like, the shared drive? MS. MBM: 3s Yes. = They had an annual training folder that had, you know, everything, all of the slide shows and stuff in it. So, the people who would have come back to work, they should have reviewed that, at least, and that would have sufficed for them having the training. MR. BM: So, that was going to be my EFTA00117484

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WoOWIHDO &WNrH 59 next set of questions. I mean, there is one, two, three, four, five, six people that came back. And if the lieutenant had to sit down with them, that’s quite a bit of them. MS. Ei: = Mm-hmm. MR. $M: 39=That he would have to spend doing the trainings all over again. MS. ER: «= Mm-hmm. MR. BRM: + Is there a possibility he would have said, hey, listen, I’1l do it for all the employees, together, when they come back, and just pushed off to training? MS. BM: 3=oI couldn’t -. I don’t think so. MR. QR: Ss No, I would say -- MR. $M: 9=Or he would have just handed MR. QM: ss --— no, it’s, they dated it on the date they are saying that they did the training. MR. BRM: Unless they were instructed, hey, sign off on the paperwork, and -. Or do you think Lieutenant QJ actually just sent them an email, or told them go on the shared drive, pull up the slides, and just read it. EFTA00117485

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WOIKHRU &WNHE 60 MS. BM: 3S I don’t know. I couldn’t -- MR. QR: 9 Okay. MS. QM: 9 -- answer for what he did. MR. BMJ: 39=But that’s not something you would instruct them? That would be Lieutenant ma’ MS. BRM: 39=Yeah. I don’t -. I don’t do it at all. I don’t do the training for them. MR. MM: 39 Okay. MR. QM: «Ss And who was actually -. So, you said both of you, though, are responsible to ensure that the training was conducted? MS. MMM: 9=Well, it depends, as far as I am concerned, I only was responsible for it because I just made sure it got done. The person who is supposed to make sure it gets done is the SHU lieutenant. MR. i: = Mm—hmm. MS. BRM: 39s Who, and that changes quarterly. So, whoever that lieutenant is, or whoever that lieutenant was, that is who would be responsible for doing the training. MR. MN: Okay. EFTA00117486

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61 MR. BMJ: Based on your education experience, is there anything wrong with employees signing documents, stating they have received training when they have not? WM: Yeah. They shouldn’t do That’s lying. MR. BMJ: 9 Just, is there anything that could go wrong? Like, let’s say they didn’t receive training, they go in and they are supposed to do their duties as certain way, and they don’t do it. Would the training - based on your training and experience, education -- MS. J: 9 Mm-hmm. MR. BMJ: 9 -- experience. MS. Ei: = Mm-hmm. MR. $MM: 39=What could go wrong? If they go -. Like, Noel, that was her first time in the SHU? MS. BR: 3=No. MR. MBM: She had it previously? MS. BRM: 9=She worked up there because she would work overtime sometimes up there. People who work over, like I said before, everybody doesn’t get it. It’s only the people who are assigned to be up there. And she would EFTA00117487

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WOAHUO SWNHE 62 work up there, just as a regular workday sometimes, before she went out on her injury. Or sometimes, overtime. So, that wasn’t her first time working in SHU. MR. MBM: But her first bid for the was that a bid for the SHU? Like, where I know she did overtime, and she did, she was assigned. But was she actually assigned to the SHU, prior to this, based on your knowledge? MS. BRM: 3oI don’t remember. Because if I can remember when she started, I could probably be able to answer that, but I don’t remember when she started. I don’t. MR. BRM: Now, on these two trainings - the mandatory quarterly SHU training and the suicide prevention training - are those trainings also covered in the annual refresher training? MS. MBM: 39s They’ re separate. MR. SRM: «But what I mean is, so, this is, it looks like these are separate, are those topics also covered in annual refresher training? MS. MMMM: Ss Yes. = They are. EFTA00117488

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WOIKHRU &WNHE 63 MR. SMM: «Ss So, regardless, if she did these specific trainings, would have she had at least taken those trainings during annual refresher training? MS. BMJ: 39s Yes. MR. BRM: Okay. So, at least in 2019, these trainings would have been conducted by Ms. Noel? MS. BRR: ~=Yes. They should have been. MR. QRRNNM:—|_s You know, not these specific ones, but she has already said she didn’t take those trainings. MS. SE: 39 Mm-hmm. MR. SNM: «Ss But she did take annual refresher training. So, she would have at least received the trainings that were discussed during those two trainings? MS. MBM: 3=Yes. Annual refresher training is at the beginning of the year. MR. BMJ: Okay. = * 00:50:03) MS. BRM: Ss Every year. And I don’t remember when she went out on her injury. MR. QM: «Ss In this case, the annual refresher training was around March. MS. MMMM: 9 Okay. EFTA00117489

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64 Does that sound right? Yeah. Around February or . But again, I don’t remember when she went out on her injury. MR. BMJ: The interview said she was off in March. The end of March to June. MR. BM: ss Yeah. I’m not sure about it. I’m pretty sure she - you know that she took the annual refresher training. So, just point being, she should have at least been trained on SHU training, as well as suicide prevention? MS. BRM: Ss Yes. MR. QM: «ss Okay. And if someone doesn’t, is out during the annual refresher training, what happens in those instances? MS. HRM: )39=When they come back to work, they have videos sometimes, and they will video the training for people that missed, or we have makeup days for, if she comes back within that meet of the makeup time, then she will do it then, along with other staff members, who may have missed it, or sometimes, if it’s just one EFTA00117490

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WOAHUO SWNHE 65 or two people, and there wasn’t a video for them to watch, then HR will shoot them an email and let them know they got to go on, and log- in, and take a look at the slide shows or whatever the case may be. MR. SM: Okay. Now, in this instance, it says, do you remember having a conversations with Ms. Noel regarding these trainings? Do you know she needed to do annual refresher training, or if she took it that year? MS. BRM: 3=I don’t remember because I don’t remember, like, what you guys are saying, she went out around March -- MR. BRM: Yeah. MS. BRR: 9 -- I don’t know, because most of the time -- (Indiscernible *00:51:29) ‘Ss. = -- we would start annual training in, like, February, like, the end of January, around February. But I don’t remember. She would have been scheduled for it on the daily rosters. On the quarterly rosters. Not quarterly. The daily rosters. EFTA00117491

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WOAHUO SWNHE 66 So, I don’t remember if she went or not. Because again, like I said, I don’t remember when she went out. MR. SNM: «Ss And it sounds like you did remember her not -. You did remember her needing to do this, though. So, what would make you remember that versus an annual refresher? MS. BR: 39 No. I don’t remember when she went to annual refresher, or if she did. Because this happened when she returned to work from her injury: MR. i: = Mm—hmm. MS. =i: annual refresher training would have happened way, a while before that. MR. SNM: «Ss So, I guess my point being is, like, you were aware of when she came back from her injury, that she had to do these. So, if she had missed the annual refresher, would you have also been aware that she needed to do the annual refresher training? MS. HMM: 3=Right. But that part of it wouldn’t have been me. That would have been HR that would have got with her. Because HR is EFTA00117492

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WOAHUO SWNHE 67 responsible for annual, making sure that everybody completes it. I’m responsible for scheduling everybody to go. MR. BMJ: «Okay. But in this instance, under these, you are responsible for making sure that they complete the quarterly SHU training and the suicide prevention? MS. MER: 9 The SHU lieutenant is responsible. All I do is schedule it. MR. BRM: Right. But I guess, why would it have then, if he’s responsible, why would have you had to have that conversation with Ms. Noel, and she got to make sure that she does that SHU training? MS. MBM: 39 Because when we would schedule the training, when people would be out, as they trickle back in, we have to be cognizant, and make sure that they took the training, and signed for it. Because all of them had to do because it they were signed for it on the quarterly roster. MR. QM: ss Okay. So, that just goes back to when you said not only take it, but also sign for it. MS. ER: = Mm-hmm. EFTA00117493

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WOIKHRU &WNHE 68 How do you ensure that sign for it? . HRM: 39s The SHU lieutenant has them for it. When they do this training, I’m not there. He has the sign-in sheets, and he has them sign in that they completed the training on the day that they do the training. MR. Si: 39 Mm-hmnm. MS. ERR: =I just stored the sheets. MR. MN: Okay. MS. BRM: 39s In my office. MR. QM: «And can you recall any instance where you actually retrieved the sheet and had an employee sign, that they did training? MS. BR: 3=No. MR. SNM: «No? ) «So, that’s just not something you would do? MS. BRM: 3=No. Because the SHU lieutenant was responsible for that. MR. BRM: Okay. So -. MS. BM: 3=oI just kept up with when they came back to work. You know what I’m saying? And on the time that they came back to work, if they, if it was something that they EFTA00117494

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WoOWIHDO &WNrH 69 were missing or whatever, even for, like, firearms training, it’s the same thing. When they come back, I will coordinate it with Human Resources, to get them out to the range, so that they can go in SHU. MR. BM: Okay. But you would never have them sign that they did it? MS. BR: 39=No. MR. BRM: «ss That’s for any training? MS. BRM: 9S Any training. MR. BR: Okay. MR. QM: 9 Have there been situations where training was not -. Was to be -. Sorry. I will repeat that. Have there been situations where training was to be provided for employees, however, there were no trainers, and an employee never received the training they were supposed to? MS. BRR: 39s Not that I am aware of. MR. MBM: So, there is always trainers available? MS. BRM: 39s Every lieutenant is an instructor, for what, you know, different things involving correctional services. So, there would never be an instance where there EFTA00117495

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WOAHUO SWNHE 70 not a trainer. They have -. And even during annual refresher training - excuse me - they have people that come from different departments, that train, you know, on different subjects. And then, they have backup people for those people. R. BM: So, not -. Should there be a situation where we talk to a C.O. and the C.0O. says, yeah, I went to that, I went there, I signed in, I sat there, but no one was ever there to teach us the class, or no one is ever there to - sometimes wasn’t there to actually conduct the training, so they never received the training. MS. MBM: 39s That shouldn’t be an instance. No. MR. ERR: 9 Would that be something that you would be made aware of, if someone -? Let’s say you scheduled a trainer to come in and teach the class. Would you be aware if the trainer never showed up, or whether there was a conflict -- MS. BRM: Ss Yes. MR. BRR: -- who would be responsible to schedule another trainer? EFTA00117496

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71 MS. BM: 39s Well, Human Resources would. If it was annual training, Human Resources would be responsible for scheduling another trainer to come in. Just like when we have new classes that start, Human Resources does the agenda, the training courses, and they outline who is going to teach what, on what day, what block, what time, and they send that out to us, to all of the instructors, to make sure that we are there. As far as SHU training is concerned, we wouldn’t schedule SHU training if there wasn’t a SHU lieutenant available to do the SHU training. So -- MR. BR: 39 Okay. MS. RRM: «9 -- we coordinate it with the SHU lieutenant, to say, okay, the quarter is going to start on this day, what day do you want me to schedule your training? That’s what I would do, so that that person knew that they would be there to conduct the training. MR. BRM: 9=And you have never heard of trainers never showing up, or people actually not receiving the training? MS. ER: 39 No. MR. MBM: 9Okay. Anything else on the EFTA00117497

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WoOWIHDO &WNrH 72 training? Because I’m going to jump -- MR. QM: «Ss Yeah. Please do. MR. MRM: 9-- okay. Did you have any interactions with inmate Jeffrey Epstein during his time at the MCC? MS. BE: 9 No. MR. BMJ: 9 Were you working during the incident between Epstein and inmate Tartaglione on July 23rd, 2019? MS. MMM: 39 The -. Do you know who Tartaglione : That was his roommate in I wasn’t. No. Because I normally work the day shift, and I believe that incident in the evening, or the midnight shift, or something. MR. MMM: «Okay. What was your understanding about Epstein being required to be housed with a cellmate? Did you know that he was required to be housed with a cellmate? MS. BRM: )9=When he came off of watch - suicide watch - the first, that first time, then psychology, I believe it was Dr. ER, if I remember right, she - they will send us out EFTA00117498

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WOAHUO SWNHE 73 an email to let us know this inmate is coning off watch, he needs to be celled with a cellmate. MR. BMJ: And your understanding is, Epstein had to be celled with a cellmate? MS. BRM: 3=Yes. Now, if it changed, because that was my understanding when he first came off of watch, and if I’m not mistaken, I think it may have been in July, I think it was, I’m not sure, when he came off of watch that first time. But she said he needed to have a Bunkie that - I’m sorry, a roommate - then. Now, after that, I have no idea if that changed. MR. BBM: = Do you know who was chosen to be his cellmate? MS. BM: 39=No. I do not. MR. MRM: 9 Okay. Anything? Were you working on August 9th and 10th, 2019? MS. BM: =I don’t -. Was that the day of his suicide? MR. BMJ: 9 August 10th was when they found him. MS. BMJ: 9s (Okay. I was in Indiana. My dad had had a stroke. EFTA00117499

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WOIKHRU &WNHE NNNNNNBEKRP BRR BER BEE UBWNHROWMIDRUS&WNHHEO 74 MR. SN: «Ss I’m sorry. MR. QJ: 9 I’m sorry to hear that. MS. BRM: 9=And I saw it on TV. That’s how I was - I was in his hospital room with him, and I saw it on TV - that’s how I found out. MR. BM: 39 So, you weren’t there August 9th and 10th? MS. EE: 3=No. MR. BBM: Okay. Do you think Epstein took his own life? MS. BM: 39=Yes, I do. MR. BR: = Why? MR. SRM: «9 (Do:s you have any reason to believe that he didn’t take his own life? MS. RRM: )9=That he didn’t take his own life? MR. BRM: Yeah. MS. BR: =No, I don’t. MR. BMJ: Okay. Do you have -. Are you comfortable with all the answers that you provided today? MS. BM: 39=Yes, I am. MR. SNM: «3S Is there anything you would like to revise while we are still on the EFTA00117500

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WOIKHRU &WNHE NNNNNBEB BRB BERBER BWNHRFOW MIRON SWNHHRO 25 75 record? MS. BR: 39 No. MR. BR: Okay. MS. BM: 9 No, sir. MR. QM: «Ss Is there anything you would like to add that we haven’t discussed? MS. BM: No, sir. MR. QM: |S Is there anything else that you wanted before? MR. QM: 3=No. Just ask -- MR. SE: Oh. MR. QJ: -- these documents, because we showed them to you, you are not testing what’s on it, you are just contesting that these are the documents we showed. Can you initial and put today’s date on it? On the top MR. QM: You need -- MR. BRR: 39 -- of each document. MR. BRM: Yeah. The top would be great. MS. HRM: 39 These two? MR. SMM: 3S No. Well, not this first one, but I think this -. So, some of these can - or some of these, do they go with this? EFTA00117501

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76 MS. HEM: 9 This is the slide show I was talking about. MR. QM: Okay. So, is this suicide, the suicide training, and this one is the SHU quarterly training? MS. BRR: = Yeah. MR. BMJ: «Ss Okay. So, if you can just keep those with each other. MS. BR: Ss Okay. MR. BRM: And then, yeah, just sign the sign-in sheets on the top, if you don’t mind. MR. BR: 3=So -- MR. SMM: «Ors initial and date. MR. QM: 9 -- initial and today’s date is the 27th. MR. QM: «So, 10/27/2021. And again, that’s just to -. Like, we have to attach it to the record, saying that these are the actual sheets that we reviewed. And if you don’t mind -- MS. HRM: 39 These two? MR. BM: «Ss -- I guess -- MR. BRM: Those two, yeah. MR. EM: §9-- yeah. EFTA00117502

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WOIKHRU &WNHE NNNNNBEB BRB BERBER BWNHRFOW MIRON SWNHHRO 25 77 MS. BR: 9S Okay. MR. SNM: «9s Training, and the slide shows. But those slide shows are for each respective training? MS. BMJ: 90h, this is suicide prevention for Special Housing Unit. MR. SNM: «Right. So, that would be this one. Correct? With Dr. QJ on the top. MS. MBM: 9This is the same thing. It’s just a different -. No, it’s not. It’s just a different -. This is a different version of this. MR. NMJ: «Ss Okay. So, they are both suicide prevention. Neither of them are the quarterly SHU trainings? MS. No. a : MR. NN: «Okay. Great. MR. RRR: 9=This one is the first -- MS. BRM: 3oNo. None of -- MR. BMJ: 9 -- after that. MR. NE: Okay. MS. MRM: 9s -- neither one of these is the quarterly SHU training. MR. QM: Okay. Perfect. Thank EFTA00117503

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 78 you so much. It is currently 12:25 p.m., on Wednesday, October 27th, 2021. This is Senior Special Agent SR ENN». anc I am turning off the recorder. EFTA00117504

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CERTIFICATE I hereby certify that the foregoing pages represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Interview of MEMES, Ts anscriber EFTA00117505