PRR RP RRP RRR CONDOM SWNHrPOW OHHH SWNP a a ee ond We wWwrr Ow DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL MARCH 16, 2022 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 3 mS oT This is Special Agent J . Today is March 16th, and the time is 9:55 a.m. The recorder is now on. My name is I am a Special Agent with the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General, New York Field Office, and these are my credentials. : Thank you, sir. : This interview with the Federal Bureau of Prisons employee, Lieutenant , is being conducted as part of an official U.S. Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General investigation. Today's date is March 16th, 2022. The time is 9:56 a.m. This interview is being conducted at the Federal Bureau of Prisons Metropolitan Detention Center, Brooklyn, New York, warden’s conference room. Also present are D0J/OIC Assistant Special Agent-in-Charge, — Lieutenant _—'d This interview will be recorded by me, Special Agent . Could everyone please themselves for the record, and spell your last name? To start, again, I am DOJ/OIG Special Agent RR ae ee RR i) MRRP RRR RRR POoOwCmBADH ew Mmmenmrn Ww Wr APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: WITNESS: OTHER APPEARANCES: 4 : Assistant Special Agent- in-Charge with the D0J/0IG and these are my credentials. Yes, sir. : Please identify yourself. Last name ' . With the Federal Bureau of Prisons. This is an official D0J/0IG investigation into events surrounding the death of inmate Jeffrey Epstein, and you are being asked to voluntarily provide answers to our questions. Will you agree to a voluntary interview with the D0J/0IG? Yes. Please review DOJ/OIG form III-226/2. The form states, United States Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General, Warnings and Assurances to Employee Requested to Provide Information on a Voluntary Basis. “You are being asked to provide information as part of an investigation being conducted by the Office of the Inspector EFTA00117173

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 PRR RRR RR NDMP WNPRPOWOHDH SWwNP ae ee od WS Wr rs © Ww oc 5 General. This investigation is being conducted pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended. This investigation pertains to job performance failure and security failure. This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not have to answer questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you choose not to answer questions. Any statement you furnish may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceedings, or agency disciplinary proceeding, or both.” The waiver states, “I understand the Warnings and Assurances stated above, and I am willing to make a statement and answer questions. No promises or threats have been made to me, and no pressure or coercion of any kind has been used against me.” Please review the form and if you understand and agree, please sign where it says Employee Signature. : Okay. : And print your name right below that. 7 to meet with us today. You previously told us - we'll jump right into it - you met with us in the past. Yes. | | And you previously told us that you were off on August 9th, 2019. That was a Friday. Do you recall? : On August 9th, 2019? I think I was off on the Friday. I think my last day of working was August 8th, I think it was. : August 8th. And do you recall mentioning to us about an issue with the camera -- Yes. a And you had addressed that situation with the communications technician Yes. Hughwon . ; And you remember mentioned, I think the conversation was between - you want to tell us a little bit about it again? Your recollection of it. Sure. Below that. Okay. I'm going to sign on the Yes. -- system? I was - after I was RR ROW OHMS fwrNP —— wr RPRRR oN Du ee od Wwrerow mr oe RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr MRRP RRR Pow OAS Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 6 signature of the Office of Inspector General. Okay. And this is , and I will sign as the witness and fill out the rest of the form. What is the time, : It is 9:59 a.m. : 9:59 a.m., and the place is the MDC Brooklyn. Thank you. Before starting the interview, I would like to place you under oath. Lieutenant [MM, can you please raise Sure. your right hand? P| Do you swear to the tell the truth and nothing but the truth during this interview? hand down. Okay. | | Please let me know if you don’t understand any questions, and I will try to repeat it, or try to rephrase it for you. Okay. Thank you for taking the time Yes, sir. Thank you. You can put your reviewing the camera, I was looking for an inmate that may have possibly departed the building. So, I was, I went to the camera to review the, to see if I can backtrack exactly when he left the building. I was present at the SIS office, with the Associate Warden from MCC New York at the time, which is AW I, we both were looking at the camera, and at that moment, I noticed I couldn't rewind on the cameras. So, I couldn't get any playback. At that moment, we stopped, you know, like, searching for the inmate because we couldn't go back any further than the time we were at. And at that time, I notified communications tech I called him over the radio and let him know, hey, I'm trying to rewind back the cameras, and the cameras won't rewind. And he said he will come and take a look at the system and see what was going on. And which he did. He did come down and he looked at the system, and he said he has to do overtime to fix the system. At that moment, I notified Captain a. I apologized that the cameras was down, and I also provided EFTA00117174

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rR CSCwWOmOANDMDS fWwNHP RPRRRR We WN Re RPRRR Oona MmMNrnNrnrry WN r Oo nm w RR SCwWOnHtDUN SwWwrP 9 him with a memorandum, letting him know that the camera system was down. :_ Okay. And we were able to -- Before we get into that, though -- + Okay. I'm sorry. : == as far as the - so, there was a discrepancy with what you said and what AW I said. Did you just rewind one - and that’s not a big discrepancy - just, did you rewind one video at that time, the one you were trying to look at, or did you rewind multiple, to determine that the -? No. I went back on quite a few. And was that with AW [i present? I can't remember if she stayed -- Okay. : == while I was going back at the cameras, to be honest with you. Because she was saying -- : But I -. -- she thought it was 11 . SIS Lieutenant to J. J, Captain. > Mm-hmm. : Subject is, “NiceVision (Phonetic Sp. *00:07:26) camera system.” “On August 8th, 2019, at approximately 3:45 p.m., while reviewing the Nice camera system, I attempted to recover video footage from the unit 5-South housing unit.” Yes. “At this time, I was unable to recover any previous recordings from the camera. This prompting me to review all of the cameras. None of the cameras on the system were able to record. Therefore, I called communication technician H. MI, via radio. At approximately 4:00 p.m., [J responding to the third floor phone monitoring room to check the cameras, and notified me that the cameras were not recording, and there was no way to retrieve any video. stated he fixed the camera system on Friday, August 9th, 2019, when he arrived to work.” Mm-hmnm . Do you recall writing this PRR RR SwWwKN PCW OHMS SwMN Pe RPRRR COND ee od Wr Ow mrNm oe Re CWO HM fWwrNP just one while she was there, so -- : Right. -- if it’s -. : I can't remember if she stayed, but I did go back on several cameras on the housing units and different areas, to see can I_-- Okay. -- rewind. So, you did, but she possibly didn't. Yes. Okay. Great. So, we were able to identify, with your assistance, through this document was provided to AW [M, and AW (i provided this to the MCC attorneys, who in turn provided it to the OIG. Yes. Okay. And this is the memo that was written by you. I'm going to read it out for the record. Up top it says, the United States Government Memorandum. Federal Bureau of Prisons. MCC New York. 150 Park Road New York. The date is August 10th, 2019, from T. Yes. Is this the memo? Okay. Yes. Just to clarify, the date that you wrote the memo will be on August 10th? : Yes. P| This would be the Saturday 0 -- Saturday. Yes, sir. It would be the And August 9th, you were off? : Yes. I'm almost sure I wasn't there the Friday. I'm almost sure that I wasn’t in the building. That last sentence, that’s the -- : Well, first, just to clarify, the August 10th. So, previously, and I think again, you just, I think you assumed you wrote it on August 8th, but it looks like you actually wrote it on the 10th. =. I did assume that I wrote it on the 8th. All right. EFTA00117175

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rR CWO D SWwrNP RPRRRR We WN Re RRR CoN DD a de ood SWwWNr Ow PRR RPE RR Re rm CON Dw SW N rR OW ON DW Sw Nr “ a a ee ond We wWwrr Ow 13 : So, looking at that now, do you know that it was now written on the 10th, on the Saturday, as opposed to on that Thursday, when you first found out? : Okay. So, that’s not, like, a misunderstanding? That's, now looking at it, you're, like, oh, that’s correct, you actually wrote it on -. So, does that mean that you didn't tell Captain [J until the 10th, as well? No. I definitely told him when the cameras was found, because he wouldn't have had any footage, have anything occur. : Because when we spoke with Captain , he didn't think he would - or he said he wasn’t told until that Saturday. He says he was never informed on that Thursday or Friday. So, we were just - now seeing that memo - we were trying to think, oh, maybe you were just mistaken because you were very confident, no, I told the Captain, and I provided him the memo. So, seeing that, does that maybe make 15 - sorry, let me pause for a second. UNKNOWN FEMALE: are you? I'm sorry. Hi. Hi. How We're on a recording, just so you Know. UNKNOWN FEMALE: Oh, I'm sorry. : Okay. : Just to clarify, the last statement -- Yes. -- does that mean that he fixed, stated, now, did MM tel] you that he fixed the camera on August 9th? Or does it mean that he told you that he will come in on August 9th and fix the camera? No. On the 8th, he told me he was staying that evening to fix the cameras. when P| seen me on the 10th, when I entered the Special Housing Unit, he was in there. I don't know if he was working, if he was doing overtime. But as soon as I entered the Special Housing Unit, immediately approached me. Immediately approached me, and I said, =— ROW OHMS fwrNP —— wr RPRRR oN Du ee od Wr Ow mre oe RR ae ee RR i) MRRP RRR RRR POoOwCmBADH ew Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 14 you think -? : No. I'm definitely positive that I told him when the cameras was down because we always do. : Okay. : Because if something happened, we need to get footage at that moment. : Uh-huh. :_ And I do recall him asking me did I notify that the cameras was down, and I told him I did -- Okay. : -+ because I was going to stay to do overtime to fix them. a. And you're positive that that was on the 8th? I'm positive -- Sorry, go ahead. -- jt was on the 8th. Sorry. Go ahead. Okay. And the last thing stated he fixed the camera system on Friday, August 9th, when he arrived to work.” Just to clarify, does that mean that he 16 well, what happened with the camera system? Because we had this conversation that you wil] fix it on the 8th. And he said I fixed it yesterday. And then, I'm here today, which is the 10th, to finish up. : So, you mean, he started fixing it yesterday? — So, I'm assuming that, I don't know if he started, or if he fixed it, but I could only go by what he told me. I fixed the camera system, and I'm here to finish it up. HE: Because when you - when we spoke to you last, you had mentioned that you approached him and said, you told me you were going to fix this, and you said, and then he told you at that time, yeah, I came in here today -- : Right. : -- to do it. : Right. So, I was under the assumption he started on the 9th, and he still had - whatever he had left to do on the 10th, and I assume that that’s what he was there to do. EFTA00117176

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rR CSCwWOmOANDMDS fWwNHP RPRRRR We WN Re RRR CoN DD a de ood SWwWNr Ow nm w RR SCwWOnHtDUN SwWwrP 17 Okay. So, not that he fixed it on the 9th, but he started to fix it on the 9th? Right. I feel like he started to fix it on the 9th, and he was there to finish up, because then he was actually on overtime in an attempt to, if I'm correct. Okay. : So, I assumed that he started fixing it, and he was there to attempt to finish it_up. So, should that last sentence then read, he began fixing it on the 9th? Instead of he fixed it on the 9th? It should, but again, I can't recall. I don’t want to say, you know, because he told me he fixed the cameras. So, fixing to me, I_don't know the camera system. So -- So, on the 9th, when they knew that they couldn't actually get video, he actually said, I did fix it yesterday? a No. On the 9th. I mean, sorry, on the 10th. WE. That's what I mean, on the 10th. 19 Now, I don't know what the finish up part for today was, to be honest with you. I'm assuming the finishing up part was the to get them to record, because they were blacked out. : Okay. : Most of the cameras were blacked out. Oh, so, they were actually blacked out? So -- —. It was some cameras that were blacked out where it was no screen at all. : Okay. This was on August 8th? Qn August 8th. Okay. So, he actually got the cameras to not be blacked out anymore, so meaning, he fixed the cameras that were blacked out, and on the 10th, he was going to get them to start recording? :_ That's what I assume. Okay. : It’s just an assumption because when I got there the 10th, I didn't physically go to see if the black out cameras was back online. PRR RR SwWwKN PCW OHMS SwMN Pe RPRRR oN Du ee od Wr Ow mrNm oe Re CWO HM fWwrNP 18 When we arrived, and we realized that there was no video over the 9th. That's when he stated, I did overtime, I fixed it yesterday. And then, we would, me and him were having a conversation that it’s no video. You can't go back. And his thing was, I'm here to finish up what I started yesterday. : Huh. So, I don’t -- Was it -- -- know what he fixed, because fixing to - I'm sorry - fixing can be he bought all of the cameras back up, so the cameras are online, but I don't know if they were online to record, if that makes any sense. And so, it’s hard for us to understand because if he's saying he fixed it yesterday, and he's here to finish it today, that sounds like it means he started fixing it yesterday, and he’s -- a, : -+ but what his words were, he fixed it yesterday? His words was, I fixed it yesterday, and I'm here to finish up today. 20 HS.) ight. So, when you say fixed in that, you're talking about, he got the cameras back up and running, but the recording part was going to be fixed on the 10th? :_ That's my assumption. Okay. : It’s just an assumption. Because I really can't say what he did. I can only sa Well, it -- -- what he said. : -- if he said to you, on the 10th, I fixed them yesterday, did you ask him then, well, then, why can't we get the recordings? I didn't. No? Okay. But now, your assumption is, he fixed the cameras to get them back up and running, and on the 10th, he was going to fix the recording part. EFTA00117177

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rR CSCwWOmOANDMDS fWwNHP 21 He was there to finish whatever that fixing was, and I'm assuming that it was the recording part because they still weren't recording on the 10th. a: Okay. But that was an assumption on your end? —. That was just an assumption on my end. And you didn't ask him anything further on that? —. I didn't ask him anything else. =— ROW OHMS fwrNP RR wr Okay. Sorry. No, I didn't. Go ahead. Do you recall having a conversation with him on the 10th about him not having access to the communication room? : No. P| On the 9th. Him not being able to access the room because there was no one there to open the door for him? : No. No. And he would be able to have access to the room because all of the keys are located in the control center. PRR RR CoN ee od Wr Ow mrNm oe 23 But you recall -- -- I recall times when I told the captain, hey, I is going to stay late because the camera system is not working, and the captain say, okay, I'l] be here. And he would be and have access to that room. Does that mean I was given the keys, or the captain would go in and open the door for him? That, I'm not sure. Okay. That, I'm not sure. So, do you remember around, approximately, what time it was on August 8th that you learned that the cameras were down? Re CWO HM fWwrNP : It was late in the afternoon. And you're positive it was late in the afternoon? : It was in the afternoon. And when you were determining that these cameras were down, you actually saw that they were -- because this is the first we're hearing that there were blacked out cameras, all along we've been told they 22 But the center control would be locked u right? a. The control center, they would - my keys would have been locked behind, like, an emergency glass. But he’s accessed my keys in the past to fix the cameras. : How would he access them? : He would get permission from the captain to get my keys because that’s who has to authorize the keys. HE. And he would go to the captain, and the captain would authorize it, and he could just take the keys? : I would hope so -- > Mm-hmm. : == that he would get authorization, but he's been there late nights when there has been nobody in SIS, fixing the cameras. And you recall specific situations where the captain has authorized him to take your keys and go into the room? : I can't say I was present when he authorized him to take the keys. I'm not going to say that I was present. But -- 24 were up, they just weren’t recording, so there was no way to tell that they were -- -- you had some cameras that were offline completely, with an X, I don't know if you've ever seen a camera system. a. So, was it still review, videoing? Like, could you see it, but there was this X on it, or was it just all black? : No. You couldn't see. Okay. You couldn't see. And you're positive -- So, seeing -. -- about that? I'm positive. So -. Okay. And then, so, you're saying, and you’re positive that it happened late in the afternoon on August 8th? :_ Yes, Because Captain J left early that day for a doctor's appointment on the 8th. So, that goes back to, are you EFTA00117178

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 PRR RRR RR NDMP WNPRPOWOHDH SWwNP ae ee od WS Wr rs © Ww oc 25 sure you told him on the 8th? Because he wasn't there. No. I spoke to Captain about the cameras because he asked me, was I going to fix the cameras? I know it definitely was after the lunch, the lunch break. So, between - it was afternoon time - between 12:00, 1:00. a. All right. So, when you say late afternoon, before, you're now thinking it was — early afternoon? Well, that's late afternoon for me when I get it -- ml AI] right. : -- because I get in 5:00 in the morning. So -- : -- I'msorry. But it definitely was somewhere after the inmates’ lunch. Between 12:00, 12:00 noon, I want to say between 12:00 and 2:00. In that timeframe. : Okay. : I-can't tell you exactly the time. But it definitely was before I went home. 27 HE: So, how important is it for the camera feed to be working at all times? Very. Compared - I know, let's talk, separate that out from the actual recordings working. How often do people go in and view the live feeds? It’s my - this is just, again, I would say it should have been daily because since I've been at MCC New York, normal practice was that the communication shop came up every morning, went into that area where, I don't know, like, the motherboard was at. And they checked it. So, that's what I've always was used to happening. And they will say, hey, you got some cameras down, or A, B, C, and D, because SIS uses the cameras a lot. You know? We going back for video. We looking for fights. Like, you know, they’re up on our desks sometimes who we’re just seeing who's doing what. So, I would say daily that they definitely should be monitored. —. Okay. And if the camera feeds were not working, I understand the RR ROW OHMS fwrNP —— wr RPRRR oN Du ee od Wwrerow mr oe RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr MRRP RRR Pow OAS mre wh 26 HE: okay. So, you're positive they were blacked out, you're positive you told Captain Yes. : Sorry. Go ahead, JR. : How many screens would you think were blacked out? I don’t even want to guess because it was a lot of cameras up there, but it was a good many. I know the housing units were recording. The blacked-out cameras, it was a lot of the corridors where we buzzed the doors, and we opened, a lot of the corridors were out. I do remember that. I do remember the units were up. The housing units were up. So, let’s talk about that for a second. I know it's important for the, how important_is it for the cameras to be working? Very. Now, we have two situations. One is, the camera feed not working, which would mean being able to view the cameras live. And second is the actual recordings not working. 0%: recorder is not, that the recording is not there. And we might have spoken about this in the past, but should [MM have gone home for the day, or should the recordings, the feeds been fixed immediately? I kind of don’t know the process of fixing the feeds because I know it was times he said he had to order new cameras. So, I don't know if they were fixable where he had to order new cameras, and had to wait for cameras to come in. So, I don't even, I don't even know, honestly, if he would have been able to fix those cameras that was out, or if he needed to order new cameras to fix those cameras that was out. HE: You mentioned there were quite_a few feeds out, right? Yes. Do you think it was possible that he came in, he told you on the 10th that he came in on the 9th and he fixed them. Is it possible that he replaced all those cameras by the 9th? HE. 0h, 1 don't know. 28 EFTA00117179

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rR CSCwWOmOANDMDS fWwNHP Okay. Okay. I don’t know. Any other follow up on that? No. I mean, I don't think he was replacing cameras. Are you talking about, like, hard drives that go with the cameras? I think when she said about the live feed -- Yeah, yeah. -- she meant in order to see the live feed, he would have to replace some of the cameras. So, you think he actually replaced the cameras -- I don't know -- : == or something? : -- if he would have to replace them, but I know it was instances that he would say, oh, I have to order new cameras. So, I assume that those cameras are broke, and they need to be replaced. MEIN; OK2y. Okay. So, on the 8th, though, you knew that there was actually two problems. Qne, that they were blacked out; 31 No. I don’t recall any a: housing units being blocked out. a. But the housing units were the ones that weren't recording? Right. I know they weren't recording. So, there was just a problem with basically all of the cameras that you knew of. It seemed that way to me now. |r did you know, did sat provide that information to either AW Captain ? Yes. No. Not about the whole system because I kind of don’t know how it works. So, I said to MM, hey, you got a lot of areas that’s blacked out. With a red X. Okay. And then, so, knowing all that information, what is it that you told Captain J? a. I just told him that I couldn't get any - I couldn't go back. weren't recording. 0%: They — CSCwWOHUMDMS fwrP and two, that they weren’t recording. + Yes, And the ones that weren't recording, were they the same ones that were blacked out? Nothing was recording. At all. Nothing. You couldn't find anythin recording? : No. I couldn't. : Because our understanding was half of the cameras were recording and half of them weren't. Just the ones you checked weren't recording. Just the ones I checked. And normally, that would be the housing areas will be where I'll target because that’s where the inmates at, and that's where -- Okay. -- unfortunately, the incidents usual] are. a. And what - you said prior - I just want to make sure we're clear - with the ones that were blacked out were not the housing units? HE. didn't say the whole institution is not recording because I didn't know. 32 : Okay. It’s just the cameras that I actual] checked. WRENN Okay. And did you tel! him if it was, like, more than one, though? Or did you just say, hey, I can't get anything is coming to fix it? than one. I can't recall saying more =_— words. Okay. can't recall using those And what All right. Md you, then, fill her in after_you were e reviewing the one camera? about AW No. No. She left. She left -- -- $0, and you never alked to her -- EL -- about it again. EFTA00117180

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rR CWO D SWwrNP 33 : All right. And did she know the cameras were down, or did she just know that you were having a problem rewinding? =. I think she - to be honest with you - she only knew that I had a problem because I couldn't playback that one unit. Okay. : Because that’s the unit that we were looking at, which were the cadre units, that they go home and go different places. Because after we couldn't find that inmate, she kind of just left. Okay. And have you since we last spoke? No. spoken with AW : No? No. So, you didn't talk about this matter with her? No. I just received, I want to say an email, or it might have been - I can't even say it was after or before, but I did receive notification from her that she CC’d me on an email about my documentation because 35 HE: 0 you recall the video that you were trying to pull up on August 8th? When you were trying to rewind. Were you trying to rewind the video for just that day, or from a previous day? a. I was trying to go back to that day, at that time -- So, for August 8th. -- yes. Not August 7th, 6th, or anything like that. It was 5 -. It was, I think we were looking at 5-South and the 5-South sally port. That may be a little foreign. It’s like the hallway. Yeah, sure. In between the two doors. That's where the elevator is. And what -. — CSCwWOHUMDMS fwrP these were my documents that were in her office. So, she said, hey, I just want to let you know that I gave them to the warden, whoever the warden was at that time, that was acting. And he stated he would give them to legal. Okay. : And that was it. And that's regarding your memo that we have right here? All of my documents. Okay. All right. This would have been included And what about -- -- in a pile of documents. -- and what about Captain ? Have you spoken with him since we last No. : Not at all? I haven't seen him. Okay. 36 And what is 5-South? 5-South was the cadre unit. The cadre unit. Yes. : All right. And can you just explain, briefly, what does the cadre unit mean? The cadre units are inmates that was designated to MCC New York. So, they was very in custody inmates, out custody inmates, community custody inmates, but their designation was to MCC New York. So, does that mean general population, or is it something different than general population? No. They're general population. Okay. : Yes. They call them the work cadres. So, they work around the building, in different departments. a. So, I'm going to clarify that a little bit. A majority of MCC New York, are the inmates awaiting trial? Yes. Pre-trial. EFTA00117181

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rR CSCwWOmOANDMDS fWwNHP 37 MM: Pre-trial. Cadre unit, are those inmates already sentenced? Yes. So, these are post-sentence inmates. They are assigned to, already sentenced, and they’re -- : Okay. Assigned to MCC New York. -- yeah. And now, these cadre inmates, do they have any special privileges? a. I wouldn't say special privileges, but some do. Meaning, they can work. HS: Work. And what kind of work do they do? a. You have some on the electric detail. Some on the plumbing detail. You have the outside detail, which was the Dayton Manor detail. a: little bit? So, they get to move around a : They move around. : Okay. Are they known as Okay. Anything else on -? I guess the last question I would say is, do you know what it was you were trying to watch? Like, what happened that caused you to try to watch the 5-South video? a. Ido. I can't recall the inmate's name. We were looking for him because we suspected that he was involved with an incident that OIG Agent (Phonetic Sp. *00:28:00) was looking into, and myself. So, this inmate name kept coming up. I can't remember if it was phones or, you know, narcotics. I can't remember. But his name kept coming up. And me and (i I stated, okay, we’re going to talk to this inmate together, to see if he had any role in what we were looking at. And me and J talked, then I said, this, , this inmate got released. And that’s what made me go and try to see exactly when he got released, you know, let me track what time he got released, because me and had even spoke about going to - if he got released to =— ROW OHMS fwrNP PRR RRR RR OCOD Sw R mm nd MmeMmnNr Ww = Wh Re CWO HM fWwrNP 38 orderlies? Well, any inmate that work, even pre-trial inmates who have a job is known as orderlies. : Okay. : But cadres, do they get to leave the facility? Some do. Some. They get to leave MCC, some work as town drivers? Right. They go to the warehouse. Come back. Yes. Okay. Some do. Yes. So, they are, like, low risk inmates? They’re supposed to be, yes. : Okay. Yes. : But these are sentenced inmates that have permanent - at that point, they were assigned to MCC. 40 the halfway house - we were going to go to the halfway house and speak to him. : Okay. Okay. I'm going to move on. Go ahead. I have a document here. Yeah. This states, for the record, number 104, timestamp 9:00, August 2019. Can you let_us know what we're looking at? I don't_know what this is. So, this was provided by IMM, from the com shop. Okay. So, I provided To me. To you? : And I turned this over to OIG because they requested the call. The call logs. a So, is that -- : So, this is the call log. But this is foreign except for the date and the end date. this to who? So, you wouldn't understand, EFTA00117182

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rR CWO D SWwrNP RPRRRR We WN Re RRR CoN DD a de ood SWwWNr Ow nm w RR SCwWOnHtDUN SwWwrP 41 you wouldn't know what this is about? I just know it’s a call log. Okay. Because this is what he gave me. So, I'm assuming this is the date somebody made a call. Again, the end and time. What time the other person answered. Just from looking up here, at the top of it. Everything down here, I don't know. Now, did [IM give that to you based on a request that you asked him for? Did you ask him for a call, a specific call log? : I want to -. : Well, read the date and time, and then -- 1 So -- : -+ maybe that will help. : -+ the start date on this is August 9th. August 9th, 2019. | And the end date is August 43 there is numbers and everything, but it doesn't state_specifically. : Okay. Do you know anybody that made a call from the MCC on August 9th, 2019, at approximately 7:00 p.m. that would be of interest for people that were investigating? : I don't know. : So, do you know anything about Epstein calling and placing a telephone call from the SHU on August 9th, 2019? Only word of mouth, that I heard when I got there on the 10th, that he - I want to say the unit manager gave him a call - because that was the discussion - the unit manager gave him a call to his mother And at that point, they were saying his mother was dead. And I don't know if this is the call, because I don't know how to read it, but I did hear that part of it. And do you remember if you asked for that specific information? Did Epstein place a call? —. I wouldn't have asked him did he place a call? I would have asked him Mm-hmm. 2019. The answer date is Mm-hmm. PRR RR SwWwKN PCW OHMS SwMN Pe RPRRR oN Du ee od Wr Ow mrNm oe Re CWO HM fWwrNP 42 9th, 2019. So, it’s the same date, right? And the start time is 18:58:03. So, that means So, that_means -- Mm-hmm . | | -- 6:58 p.m. time is 19:19. That's 7:59 p.m. | | Okay. Yeah. Okay. The answer time is 6:58:22. And the end So, the call, it seems that it lasted about 21 minutes. About 20 minutes. Yeah. Again, whatever call logs that I asked him for was call logs that was asked from OIG of me, hey, I need the call log. They asked for it. I know they asked for the Special Housing Units. How many phones were up there. And -- : And by looking at that, are you able to tell if that was a Special Housing Unit call? I don't know. Does it show anything on There is a caller station, 44 whatever phone numbers that OIG asked me for. a. Okay. Now, as far as the information that you just said, which unit manager provided who a call? It’s my understanding that gave Mr. Epstein the call. Okay. Sometime on, in the night of August 9th, 2019? a. vn-hmm. That’s my understanding. But that was just hearsay. People speaking. I didn't witness him give a phone call. No. Unit Manager : But you don’t know if that's the call log for him? :_I have no idea. : Okay. : And based on that, if this was the request for that, if this was the request for that call log, and this was what the communications tech pulled up, the call log that he pulled up, and this is for the SHU, would this be the phone number listed on the call log? a Oh, I don't know. : Okay. EFTA00117183

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rR CSCwWOmOANDMDS fWwNHP RPRRRR We WN Re RRR CoN DD a de ood SWwWNr Ow nm w RR SCwWOnHtDUN SwWwrP 45 MM: Because I wouldn't have had the number. : Okay. And we'll just have her initial and date both of these. No problem. On both these documents, just initial and date -- Okay. -- not attesting to it, it’s just that, these are the documents we showed you. No problem. : And one is the memo from August 10th, and the other is the call log from August 9th. Okay. And again, it’s 3/16/22. Yes, sir. Do you know what Acknowledgement of Inmate form BP-408 is? : BP-408? Oh, I’ve been out a I'm not sure what - : Give her some -- : == could you -- while. BP-408. Epstein was assigned a pack and PIN? a: Oh, I don't know. : Okay. Well, our understanding was Epstein needed to be assigned a pack and PIN, and because he was at attorney conference all the time, he was never available for a pack and PIN to be set up for him. And what we're trying to find out is, if Epstein was ever assigned a pack and PIN, and if he was assigned a pack and PIN, did he ever sign a form called Acknowledgement of Inmate form, BP-408? : Qh, I don't know. What about if an inmate is afforded a legal call? Do they have to sign a form? Normally, they request the legal call. This is my knowledge of being a lieutenant. They put a cop-out into their unit team, requesting that a legal phone call, and somebody from their unit team will come up with a logbook, I guess after they verify that that is their attorneys number, and they tell the attorney, okay, we're going to set up this phone call for 10:00. Then they will go up and PRR RR SwWwKN PCW OHMS SwMN Pe RPRRR oN Du ee od Wr Ow mrNm oe Re CWO HM fWwrNP 46 -- yeah. Give her some context to that. : I'm going to read. So, when someone gets a pack and PIN, or they’re able to use the inmate telephone system, would they have to sign something called an Acknowledgement of Inmate form, BP-408? I'm not sure. Because I’ve never_dealt with their pack and PIN numbers. So, I'm going to read you this. I'm just going to read you this, so that you can kind of get a -- | going to be separate. : -- full. Well, and you go. Because you -- > Okay. : -+ probably understand Go ahead. HE: So, do you know anything about pack and PINs? When an inmate is assigned pack and PINs? : Vaguely. pack and PIN numbers. Okay. more. A little about the So, do you know if 48 give the phone call to the inmate, and log it in the_legal_call back. : But you're not aware of any kind of form that they need to sign as opposed to just the logbook? =. I'm not sure because that would be unit team. Okay. But you’re not - you don’t remember a BP-408, an Acknowledgement of Inmate form, or what it is? : No. : Okay. : Where would we find that? If that's a form that we're looking for, inmate had signed something like that, where would that be kept? : Iwould think it would be in the inmate's central file. And that would be in the central office? And I would think the unit team members would have the central file in their area. : Okay. And if the inmate was in the SHU, it would be in the SHU? EFTA00117184

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 49 HN; 1t would still be with the unit team that the inmate was assigned to. Okay. And now, I'm going to read you a paragraph here. This is about federal regulations. : Okay. : “Federal regulations require that the warden of each BOP institution establish procedures to monitor inmate telephone conversations, which is done to preserve the security and orderly managing of the institution, and to protect the public. For safety and security reasons, BOP policy requires that all inmate telephone calls be made through the inmate telephone system, ITS. BOP policy recognizes that on rare occasion, in times of crisis, inmates may be permitted to make a telephone call outside of the ITS. In such circumstance, the telephone must be placed in a secure area; example, ina locked office, and must be set to record telephone calls. Additionally, the staff member coordinating the call must notify the BOP Special Investigative Services (SIS) via : No. : -- family members? : I didn't know. : Do you know if that was against policy if they did something like that? a. In my opinion, yes, it's against policy because the legal line is for a legal phone call. : And what happens if they were to allowed to do something like that? | | What happens to who? : No. What happens if an inmate is allowed to -? What is a call like that, if they have to make a call to a personal, a personal call, why does the call have to be made on a recorded line? Because it can be a safety issue if they have an unmonitored call, because there's no way for us to go back and listen to the call. It could have been a threat. You know, it could have been something that could have just been a catastrophe, and that you have no way of knowing. That’s why we have that ICS system in place, so we can go back and listen to the RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR Oo OUD wr mre reo Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 50 email, providing the inmates’ name and register number, the date and time of the call, the number and name of the individual called, and the reason for the call. SIS must enter this information into the telephone recording system within seven days.” Okay. Do you recall if you ever got notified about a call like this for Mr. Epstein? No. Okay. Was it standard practice at MCC if an inmate was ever afforded a call like this, would you ever get an email? No. I've never gotten an email. HR; Were you ever been aware of this requirement? : No. : Were you ever aware that inmates were given calls like this where a unit team member, let's just say if an inmate wasn’t given a pack and PIN, a unit team member would sometimes plug a line in to the legal line, and would let them make phone calls to personal -- 52 calls, and we can identify anything that was abnormal. And I know this is Monday morning quarterbacking the situation, but a situation like this, with Mr. Epstein, the fact of the circumstances that surrounded what happened between August 9th and 10th, looking back that he was allowed to make a phone call like that on August 9th, should that have been allowed? No. In my opinion, no. Why not? It goes back to what I stated. We have no way of monitoring those phone calls. So, we don’t know if - you know, just an example - if I may, we don’t know if it was to intimidate a witness. We just don’t know the context of the call because we can't go back to listen. We don’t even know in the call if he was saying, hey, I'm feeling like this, because you have no way of going back _and listening to that call. —. And being that someone, that he was allowed to make that phone call, should someone have been standing there with him, EFTA00117185

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rR CWO D SWwrNP monitoring that phone call? Yes. Okay. And should that have been logged up? Should that have been a log? That a_call like that was made. : Yes. :_ Okay. Anything else on that? You just have a question On that last note. The call log? This one. Sorry. Oh. I think she answered here. that. Okay. : You mentioned before the call log that we showed you, that’s the call log -- Oh, that’s the log -- :_-- that’s the -- -- I thought you were talking about this other log that you just mentioned. :_No, no, no. I'm sorry. : That call log that you said 55 -- would know if you can go back and pull those timeframes up. So, just to run through the day. Let's just say Michael Thomas, Tova Noel, the situation, they're up there on the tier, and they discover Epstein. Yes. And they wanted to hit the - they wanted to notify control, hey, there is an emergency. How would they notify control? They should hit their body — a. l alarms which -- Which is located where? -- on their radio. So, they both have a radio, or just one person? Up in the SHU, they both should have radios. But I don’t know if they both had radios. But I know a body alarm is assigned to the Special Housing. It’s assigned. l And the body alarm is where? The body alarm, one of the officers have to carry it. I'm not too sure if they all do. I really can't remember. But I - — CSCwWOHUMDMS fwrP No. Disregard. -- okay. You can move on. No problem. Now, we’re moving on to ‘August 10th. : Okay. : Would there be a record of the exact time Correctional Officer Tova Noel pushed the emergency button on her radio? Like -? WE. I'm not too sure if -. 1 know when you key up the radios, they do register on the control panels. In the control center. But I don't know if that’s recorded, where they can run, like, that’s how they ran the telephone log. I'm not too sure. Only Mr. will know that because he’s a com shop. So, he would be able to pull it up? HE: aybe. He would be the only one -- He would be the only one -- -- to answer. -- that -- Could answer it. radio? the radio -- a: radio. -- okay. | | And once you hit that body alarm, it goes throughout the whole building, on everybody's radio. : And at least one officer in the SHU is assigned that? HM: Veast one officer should have the body alarm in the SHU. : So, it’s just a special radio that has an alarm? :_ Yes. : But it’s called the body alarm? : They’re called body alarms. : Okay. : What does it look like on the radio? Is it separate from the -- no. Or no, no. It’s a button on It’s just a button on the EFTA00117186

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rR CWO D SWwrNP RPRRRR We WN Re RRR CoN DD a de ood SWwWNr Ow PRR RPE RR Re rm CON Dw SW N rR OW ON DW Sw Nr “ a a ee ond We wWwrr Ow HE; 1t's an orange button. Orange or red button. And when they hit it, everyone gets notified? —. It goes across all the radios. And what is normal practice? Like, once it hits, what transpires? Whoever is in the building responds to that area. When you hit that body alarm, it pops on the control panel, and a big screen, and we can see exactly where it’s coming from. a. Okay. And is that the control officer? The control officer will call it. You know, we have a body alarm in the Special Housing Unit. a. And who is supposed to respond? HE: Normally, everybody who has a radio and who is not supervising inmates respond to that area. Every supervisor? If they’re in the building, 59 HB it’s not, like, oh, yeah, and you ring the, you put the - or you press the body alarm, it’s like a matter of seconds, oh, yeah, someone is there, it takes about two to three minutes on average? Yes. If somebody is there in a matter of seconds, that mean they're right outside the door when that alarm went out, but most of the time, we have to get elevators, we have to run up the stairs. So, we have to get to the area. Okay. controlling the elevator? The control center is controlling the elevator. So, that control officer would have to know where the officers -- To pick -- -- are going? -- everybody up. Because everybody will come across the radio. Hey, pick me up on two. Pick me up on three. Pick me up on four. So, that officer has to start picking up from every floor Do they keep a log of Is there one officer =— ROW OHMS fwrNP —— wr RPRRR oN Du ee od Wr Ow mre oe RR ae ee RR i) MRRP RRR RRR POoOwCmBADH ew Mmmenmrn Ww Wr they should be. What about if you are assigned the housing unit? Are you allowed to leave the housing unit? >No. : No. You're not supposed to, no. But if, let's say you're internal and you're moving around, you're supposed to respond? : So, as long as you’re not assigned to a housing unit, and you're just there in the facility, you're supposed to respond? Right. | | Is there certain officer that's assigned to respond for emergencies? a. No. There is no specific assignment. Okay. What is the average time it takes for additional correctional officers to respond in a case of emergency? Normally, within two to three minutes. 60 everything that transpires when an emergency happens? H..what do you mean, a log of everything -- : Let's just say -- : -- that transpires? : -+ like, the stuff that comes over the radio. Like, the calls that come over, and when a body alarm is hit, do they keep track of, hey, this call came over the call, or this person responded. : The practice should be, once the body alarm goes off, that control center has a logbook, as well. So, the control center officer should have that in their logbook. 7:15, a body alarm went off in the Special Housing Unit, for example. > Okay. : And if I was the responding lieutenant, and I cleared that body alarm, let's say at 7:20, that logbook should also say, 7:20, body alarm cleared by Lieutenant Okay. And this logbook, it’s called the control officer logbook? EFTA00117187

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rR CSCwWOmOANDMDS fWwNHP MMM NR RRP RR RRR RRR WN OW DOHMH WN nm w 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 : Yes. : Okay. Okay. : How often do body alarms go off? Or would they, around that time? Is that, like, a daily occurrence, or is it weekly, or -? a. I want to say almost daily, it’s body alarms. : Okay. So, people are very familiar with what to do when a body alarm :_ Yes. : == goes off. Now, just a quick question. If an operations lieutenant is relieved at, like, 6:00 a.m., let’s say, or prior, the alarm goes off at 6:33, but that operations lieutenant is still in the building, working on documentation, would that operations lieutenant, even though they’ve been relieved, would they be required to respond -- : They should. Yes. : -+ they should still respond? : So, even though they’ve activated? Normally, you hear it. : Oh, so, everyone could hear it? | You hear it. : Okay. So, like, because it’s a loud sound? :_ Yes. : Does it go throughout the institution? Or just on the radios? : It just go on the radios, but it’s really loud. So, even if somebody is using the bathroom, if they have their radio, you hear it. Okay. : You hear it. Like, as in, like, if a radio is going off outside of the bathroom, even if they don’t have their radio in the bathroom, is that what you mean? You'll hear it. Okay. So -- You'll hear it. -- the person using the restroom would hear a radio that was outside of PRR RR SwWwKN PCW OHMS SwMN Pe RPRRR COND ee od Wr Ow mrNm oe Re CWO HM fWwrNP been relieved for their shift -- + Yes, -- should -. : You still should respond because you're physically still in the building. GU. Okay. And would that operations lieutenant have given back their radio, though, already if they were already relieved? Or would they still have a radio on them? : If they’re sitting in the office, well, let me backtrack so I don’t seem confusing. The operations lieutenant that was relieved would turn the radio up to the relieving lieutenant. So, we're not assigned individual radios. You have one assigned for operations lieutenant, and one assigned for activities lieutenant. So, if I relieve you, JM, I'm going to give you - you're going to give me your radio and your keys. ———. So, if that person was relieved, and then is working on documentation, how would they know that a body alarm was the restroom, is what you mean? Yes. : Okay. And then, the lieutenant’s office, the way it's set up in MCC New York, is we also have the Nice camera system set up with big screen TVs, as such. So, if you are there and you see people running, your first instinct going to be, what’s going on? Everybody is running. : So, office, and -- doing work -- : == you should be able to see. : Yes, because I think it’s about three or four big screen TVs in there. Now, is it a requirement that they respond, or just they should respond? —. I don't, I can't recall a policy on if you've been relieved, but you definitely should respond. Okay. if you're still in the If you're in the office. -- office, and you're still Mn-hmm . EFTA00117188

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rR CSCwWOmOANDMDS fWwNHP 65 HE: Okay. Would that be a sound correctional judgment? I'm going to move on. : Yup. I'm going to, this document that I'm showing you -- : Yes. : -- is dated Friday, August 9th, 2019. And then, the back is dated Saturday, August 10th, 2019. Can you let us know what this document is? Yes. Well, this is called the SHU locator form. What does that mean? It’s basically all of the ranges in SHU, and the cell numbers, and the inmates that’s assigned to the cells. Okay. So, basically, a roster for the SHU. It’s a roster for the SHU, cell assignments, who’s the cell, assigned to what cell. Okay. And then, the bottom 67 “United States Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Prisons, MCC New York. Transfer Receipt.” This is dated Friday, August 9th, 2019. Received from — warden MCC New York. “Following United States prisoners.” Sorry, it’s a little tough to read. : No. “Prisoners together with complete files for transfer as indicated WAB, USMS, SDNY.” What is this document? I have -. This is an R&D - So, you’ve never seen one of these documents? Documents. I don't know what that is. Well, it’s a transfer receipt. But I don't know when they do it, and for, obviously, why i do it. I don't know. But you’ve never seen one of these before? No. I’ve never physically seen the transfer receipt. And this is not, you don’t think this is one of those documents that goes out to the units, saying these are the inmates that are getting transferred? =— ROW OHMS fwrNP PRR RRR RR OCOD Sw R mm nd MmeMmnNr Ww = Wh Re CWO HM fWwrNP 66 here, on L-tier, 220-U, and 220-L. Who are the inmates assigned on there? : Inmate MJ and Inmate Epstein. What is C/F? You see the letters next to Epstein’s name, it says C/F? C/F. Yes. What does that mean? Common fear. Common fear meal. Meaning, he got some kind of, I don't know what was his religion. : So, it’s -- But it’s a religious -- -- yeah. -- meal. Okay. That's the common fear. : I just wanted to get clarification on that. + Mm-hmm. : Just have her initial and date it. HE; I don't think so. Because I've never seen it. As a lieutenant, I would have seen it, and if we had good officers in there, I would have received a copy, as well. I've only seen the rosters. The physical rosters. Never the transfer receipts go out to the unit. Okay. Next document, it states 68 And when you say it’s a transfer receipt, does that mean that it’s created after the prisoner is transferred? I don't know. : Okay. I don't know. The signature on that bottom. Do you_recognize that name by any chance? : No. Okay. (Indiscernible *00:50:39). I don't_know who that is. : Okay. No problem. Two minutes. Two minutes. And this is just the last t. H.Sure. se EFTA00117189

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Wonton fwWwrP 69 HE; what I'm showing you are pictures. It is in black and white. Unfortunately, we were not able to print it in color. There’s two pictures here. I need - you to initial these after. Sure. These are, these pictures were taken by the coroner's office, just to “s MCC, just to clarify. machines? Okay. And these were taken at the These look like AED Yes. And do you know what this is? It looks like a -- (Indiscernible *00:51:24). -- a home-made noose. A home-made noose. Yes. Have you seen this before? Yes. : Do you know what this is? And to us, in the - because it’s in black and white, and I know in the picture it looks black 71 a: I've never seen a divider put up. : Okay. : Since I’ve been a lieutenant. : Okay. No problem. Can you initial and date? Do you know if there was a divider put up after Epstein was removed, so that - because it was a crime scene? I don’t know. When I got there, there was no divider up. WE. Okay. So, you don’t recall -- :_ Once I arrived. No. -- you don’t recall -- I didn't see -- -- a divider. -- a divider. Okay. No. Since the last time we spoke, else that came to mind you was there anything think that you would want to share with us, anything else that you think would be pertinent to our investigation? Wey fwrP Mm-hmm . -- to us, in color, it looks like a curtain. No. ? It's like a divider Okay. On wheels. That’s what we need you to So, where is this picture taken? I'm not too sure where they icture at. The divider on wheels. Was this something that was brought up to the SHU, or was this somewhere else? I don't know. I don't know. Do you recall something like that, like, that was brough up into the SHU to cover up Epstein’s cell, or was this brought in the health center to help? : I don't know. Would the divider be - if an inmate committed suicide - would a divider be put up outside of his cell so that other inmates can't see what’s going on? 72 HE: Nothing that I thought about. I felt like you guys touched on everything when we spoke. It looks -. How can I - clarify. took this Well, thank you again for taking the time -- No problem. -- to talk to us. Any time. All right. Thank you, thank you. :__No problem. : Oh, and just, you still are a lieutenant, you said? Correct? :_ Yes, : And you're right now MDC -- Yes. -- but on leave? Yes. Okay. But you're expecting to return to the MDC? Yes. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. This is Special Agent J assigned to the EFTA00117190

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73 1 PEMMJ. The time is 10:48 a.m., and we are CERTIFICATE 2 stopping the recorder. I hereby certify that the foregoing pages represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Interview of CE, Transcriber EFTA00117191