DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL AUGUST 5, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 3 WR. BBM: This is special agent J | | The recorder is now on. My name is HME. I'na special agent with the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General, New York Field Office, and these are my credentials. MR. : All right. MR. : This interview is with Federal Bureau of Prisons employee, It is being conducted as part of an official U.S. Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General investigation. Today is August 5th, 2021, and the time is 6:19 p.m. This interview is being conducted at the Metropolitan Correctional Center, MCC, 150 Park Row, New York City. Also present is DOJ/OIG Senior Special Agent, This interview will be recorded by me, Special Agent Could everyone please identify themselves for the record, and spell your last name? To start, again, I am DOJ/OIG Special :_My name is senior special , with the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector APPEARANCES: rR ee oe RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn OFFICE OF_THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: WITNESS: OTHER APPEARANCES: 4 General. a And these are my credentials. WR. MB: Okay. And my name is MMMM. Senior Officer with the Federal Bureau of Prisons. WR. MM: And spel your last name, too. MR. H MR. : Thank you, sir. MR. : This is an official D0J/0IG investigation into the death of inmate, Jeffrey Epstein, and the surrounding circumstances. You are being asked to voluntarily provide answers to our questions. Will you agree to a voluntary interview with the DOJ/OIG? MR. Yes. MR. Please review D0J/OIG form III-226/2. It states, the United States Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General, Warnings and Assurances to Employee Requested to Provide Information on a Voluntary Basis. “You are being asked to provide information as part of an investigation being conducted by the Office of the Inspector General. This investigation is being conducted EFTA00115849

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RR Wr PRR SOUS Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ll RR wr 5 pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended. This investigation pertains to job performance failure, security failure, and false certifications. This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly -- Mm-hme -- you do not have to answer any questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you choose not to answer any questions. MR. + Uh-huh. MR. : Any statement you furnish may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceedings, or agency disciplinary proceedings, or both." MR. + Uh-huh. MR. : The waiver states, "I understand the Warnings and Assurances stated above and I am willing to make a statement and answer questions. No promises or threats have been made to me, and no pressure or coercion of any kind has been used against me.” Please review the form. If you understand and agree, sign your name, and print your name right below it. voluntary interview -- MR. : Yeah. MR. : == and you can end the interview. MR. : Like -. MR. : You don’t have to answer if you don’t want to. MR. MBM: It’s been like this every time. MR. : MR. : Yeah. MR. : Before starting the interview, I would like to place you under oath. Can you please raise your right hand? Mr. MBB, do you swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth during this interview? MR. : Yes. MR. :_Thank you. You can put your hand down. Mr. MMMM, please let me know if you do not understand any questions I ask, and I will try and repeat it, or try to rephrase it for you. MR. + Mm-hmm MR. : Okay. I just wanted to show the recorder is right there. Yes. Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH RRR RR UW Wh RRR oma MNrMNNrNP wre ow nm wn Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe 6 WR. QM: Here's a pen for you, if you need one. WR. MMMM: So, do I need a union rep for this? WR. QM: © You could have one, if you want, but like we mentioned, it’s going to be primarily to review the statement that you already provided. MR. : Okay. MR. : And just to ask for some clarification on some of the information that you provided. MR. : Let's get this over with. MR. : Thank you for signing. This is Agent I'm going to put the date as August 5th, 2021. And the time is 6:22 p.m. The place is MCC, New York. I'm signing at the line for signature of the Office of the Inspector General, Special Agent. Senior Special Agent, would you sign it? . This is I'm signing as the witness. Did you understand the form? Yes. You understand it’s a WR. : What is your current home address? rent home address would Where is that? : ini °:. What is your date a ? _ = What is your social security ner? : at 1S your current phone ont? * |, What is your highest level of education? oe school with some college. Okay. And some college. Did EFTA00115850

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RPRRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr you earn a degree? No. I haven't finished that. And then, I did online. and now, I'm working here. MR. What major are you following? MR. It was criminal justice. MR. Were you planning - you were going to finish that up, you said? MR. I want to. MR. Okay. Do you have any military service? MR. : Yes. MR. :_What_branch? MR. : MR. : Honorably discharged? MR. : Yes. MR. :__When did you serve? MR. : Ht _ MR. : And what grade were you when you left? MR. I was an E4 when I left. MR. Okay. How long have you served with the Federal Bureau of Prisons? MR. WE: Approximately [i years now. 11 So, WR. QM: Okay. what is your current position with the MCC? MR. MR. Senior Officer. Who is your current supervisor? MR. : The Operations Lieutenant. MR. : What's the name? MR. : I think I is the Operations tonight. MR. Operations Lieutenant. Do you -? MR. QM: «So, what do you mean by that? It’s every day, it’s a different one, or (Indiscernible *00:06:15)? MR. It can very well be. So, the lieutenants sometimes will work on a different schedule than us. So, our schedule, like, a schedule might not line up, like, tonight I'm working, = is working right now, but some - like, yesterday, it was that was working. MR. : Sure. MR. : So, you know, you never know. MR. : Okay. MR. : Do you recall being Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH RRR RR UW Wh RRR oma MNrMNNrNP wre ow nm wn Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe 10 MR. QB: What was your enter on duty date? WR. MM: It can be a month and . og Yeah. . : Yeah. It was || Yeah. Because I just made ears. But I could get that, as -- Oh, that’s easy. -- a paper. . It's fine. It's just a know approximately when you started. MR. QM: Okay. And what did you prior to working at the Metropolitan Correctional Center? wR. MB: HB Cleaning job. And car dealerships. Until I landed this. MR. : Okay. And what year did you start here, agaig? MR. : MR. MR. MR. the whole time? wR. a: With the MCC? Yes. Have you been here at the MCC Yes. previously interviewed by the FBI and OIG regarding the Epstein investigation? MR. Yes. MR. I'm going to read you a summary of the FBI's notes. The reason, these notes belong to the FBI, but because the OIG was present, we do have the notes along with you, too. So, I'm going to read it -- MR. Uh-huh. MR. -- just tell me if there's any corrections, or -- MR. Okay. MR. -- anything that’s missing. MR. Okay. MR. I'm going to go right into it. informed that he has been a guard with the Bureau” -. MR. the beginning. MR. All right. So, “On September 25, 2019, at approximately 11:30 hours, the igned, along with Special Agent [i a: the Offic ctor General, Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and Assistant Yeah, yeah. Start from EFTA00115851

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo nm w United States Attorneys, for the southern district_of New York, and did interview Federal Bureau of Prisons Correctional Guard, . Date of birth: at the Southern District of New York. This interview was conducted in the presence of attorney. HMM informed that he has been a guard with the Bureau of Prisons (BOP) for approximately three years, all of which have been at the Metropolitan Correctional Center.” MR. + Mm-hmm. MR. : So, are you represented in this matter? Are you represented in this matter? “wR. i: had a lawyer -- MR. : Yeah. MR. : == then. MR. : == $0, I do want to make sure you understand this is a voluntary interview. I know that you had an attorney there. Are you good with us reviewing this report, and -? wR. PE: Yeah. I guess so. I mean, I So, this is -- Yeah. We could review it real was number one? Are you pointing to _ Yeah. Okay. MR > Now, was m7 - was he non-custody, though? MR. + Yeah. MR. : So, being that he was non-custody, would you actually be kind of the QIC, being that you were, like, were you more senior, or -? MR. MMM: No. Actually, he has more time in the Bureau than I do. WR. MMM: He does? Okay. So, he would be kind of responsible, at the time, then? MR. MM: Yeah. Like, the way it's a very tricky thing, the way that that works here. MR. : Okay. MR. : You know, so, even if - because he has more time than me, he’s not - because he started in custody - he has more time than me, so I guess when they gave him the overtime, they just, like, filled in the slot. rR SCweeH4OD wre RRR RR UW Wh RRR ona MMM NNYVre Se wWwMNre Owe rm wn RR BPOWwWo HO BwrPE RPRRR Un Wh RR SD MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr &—wWwrNre © © oo rm wn quick, and just get this over with. MR. : 4 informed that he has completed all the basic and required training for being a guard in the BOP, and that he is currently the senior officer in the Special Housing Unit (SHU).” MR. : Well, then I was. MR. : At that point. August 2019? MR. + Mm-hmm. MR. : Okay. Did you -? MR. : Iwasn’t the number one officer that night, but -. WR. BEN: «who was that number one officer? MR. | not even sure. MR. : Here’s the daily assignment roster from that night. WR. MM: Can you see it, by looking at the -? We provided the MCC New York roster for August 9th, 2019. vk. MMM: Okay. He was on OT. Yeah. 1 was the number three man. WR. MB: You were number three. MR. ae Okay. MR. : You know, I worked in there every day, at that point in time, but what am I supposed to tell the man, like, yo, you're number one, what am I supposed to anybody? WR. MMM: Sure. So, technically, because he’s number one, he was the OIC? MR. . MR. : I gotcha. But, you know, that’s - Have you received mcc refresher training? Annual refresher training? MR. : In SHU? MR. : In SHU, MCC training, and also in SHU. wR. J: MR. : Yeah. MR. : == training or whatever? MR. : Yeah. MR. : Like, yeah. on the computer this year. MR. : Ask him -- MR. : Did you have -. MR. : == you know, you want to Okay. And Who Oh, like, oh, yeah, the annual I just did that EFTA00115852

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr KR vs ask him about at the time. MR. MB: I'm going back. Yeah. In 2019, did you receive the annual MCC refresher training? MR. MM: I believe so. I don't even remember at this point, but I could look it up in the computer. MR. a. Everybody pretty much does every year, though. Correct? . + Yeah. . : So, you (Indiscernible But we're supposed to. But somet ines we'll _be off. MR. : Sure. MR. : Do you recall, you received the SHU training? MR. : Quarterly training. MR. + Quarterly training. MR. : In order to your -. were, like, assigned to the SHU. MR. MBM: Yeah. At some point in time, I probably did. What the dates are, I don't remember. WR. BB: Okay. MR. + Yes. MR. : Can you let me know who else worked with you during that shift? According to when you - if you can refer to the roster. WR. MB: Okay. For 2:00 to 10:00, this is me right here, coming in at 2:00 to 10:00. And so, when I came in, some of these people from the dayshift was still here. MR. : Can you - because we're recording -- MR. : Oh. MR. : == say the names that you're pointing to. WR. MB: Okay. So, when I came in to do SHU number three, you had MMB stil] working. And then, at 4:00, when the shift change came on, this is when these individuals came on, [I Well, was already there, I believe. Because she got stuck for overtime that night. But that’s when they came in. And then, nobody was assigned to SHU four, after 4:00. MR. : So, you started 2:00 p.m.? MR. : I started at 2:00 p.m. MR. : And during the time that you in 2019, if You What about the suicide 19 Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH RRR RR UW Wh RRR ona MNrMNNrNP wre ow rm wn Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe 18 prevention training? In 2019. MR. a. That would have been part of the SHU. MR. :_ Part of the SHU training. MR. : Yeah, as well as part of MR. : Yeah. MR. : -+ the annual refresher training. wR. MM: Yeah. computer before, too. remember. It was -- MR. : Sure. MR. : -- It was too --. MR. : Okay. We're going to go -- MR. : Maybe it was something that was mentioned in the course, that -- MR. : Right. Yeah, yeah. MR. :_-- it’s 2021, right? MR. : Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. MR. : Tunderstand. “when asked about his activities for August 9th, 2019, replied, ‘I assumed that’s Epstein day.’ informed that, as far as he can recall, he worked the 2:00 p.m. by 10:00 p.m. shift.” 20 - you said J, was still there? MR. + Mm-hmm. MR. : And at 4:00 p.m., came on? wR. PE: because he’s 1400. His time ended. MR. : Okay. And then, at 4:00 came in? MR. : Yeah. He came up for overtime. came in for her regular shift. MR. : Okay. I'm going to continue on. MR. > Mm-hmm. MR. : And I'm going to read that line again. “ informed that, as far as he can recall, he worked a 2:00 p.m. by 10:00 p.m. shift, and did not see Epstein for the majority of his shift because Epstein was with his lawyers all day.” MR. : Yes. MR. “HEB first recalls seeing Epstein at approxinately 8:00 p.m., and at that time, informed B0P quard SM” - that's I’ve seen that on the Now, in 2019, I don’t started, BBM left when I came in, EFTA00115853

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RR POW OHO BwrPE RRR Bm Wh ee od al oe od Rr SoOW OND mre r Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr RPRRPRPRPR Wwonnu > mmn we wre © mr wn 21 . + Mm-hmm. MR. : “That Epstein needed to make a phone call. informed that he made the MR. : That's backwards. MR. : Go ahead. Clarify that for me. MR. MM: What happened was is, J informed me that he needed to make a phone call. That’s, like, because I can't make that determination, and that’s not an officer, that’s a unit manager. VR. BB: So, BD is a unit manager? MR. : Yeah. MR. : Do you know his first name, offhand? MR. : No. MR. :_ Okay. MR. : BB Is that a yes? MR. : Yes. : Okay. That’s all right. Sorry. No problem. 23 the judge or anybody tell him that, like, yeah, he gets to make a phone call or whatever. So, okay, no problem. You know, you're owing me at this point in time or whatever. So, now, at that point in time, there was a lot of stuff going on. That, I do remember. There was a lot of things going on. Two other inmates attempted suicides, and, you know -. MR. QM: We'll come to -. I'm going to go through that, too. MR. : Okay. MR. : You said, so, approximately what time did Epstein get brought back? Do you recall? MR. MMM: It was 8:00 something, but it was, like, very close to, like, the end of the day. It was locking time. The day was done. Because Epstein usually did that. He would stay with his lawyers from the time in the morning, to the end, when they couldn't stay no Okay. So, he would wait all the way to the very end. And he came back after the legal visits were done, that’s around the time rR cow oH DU Sw MNP PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn RR BPOWwWo HO BwrPE RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn 22 WR. QM: That’s only because of this. Yeah, yeah. You know, picking it up. I knew what you meant. : == that night, were you in the SHU when this happened? Did approach you in the SHU? MR. : Yes. MR. : So, that night, when that happened, I'm running around, as I normally do, doing things in the SHU. I get the call on the radio. You know, you've got to return, coming into SHU, or whatever. So, when he gets brought in or whatever -- Who gets brought in? -- Epstein. Okay. Epstein gets brought into the SHU. Just Jike normal, you know, like, you take them, pat search them, and everything like that before you put them in the cell. So, a informed me, hey, he needs to make a phone call, I don’t know if, like, you know, 24 he came back. That day, a specific time, I can't remember. But I know it was around 8:00 ish, you know, 8:00, 9:00 ish. MR. _ That’s fine. MR. : Because the legal visits usually end about 8:00. But, you know, there was other things going on. You know that? MR. : Who brought him back? MR. : BB handed him off to me. MR. : So -- MR. : If I remember correctly. MR. : == $0, he brought him back from attorney visiting? MR. : Yes. MR. > Okay. MR. : So, he handed him off to me, and told me he needed a phone call or whatever. So, I had to put Epstein, you know - where'd I put him? - I had to put him in the shower because I couldn't put him in the room, with the phone, by himself, and I'm pulling out other inmates at the time, because one of them had a noose tied around his neck. He was probably playing it, but you can't joke like that. EFTA00115854

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RR wr PRR SOUS Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ll RRR Wh RRR oN MmNMNyr Mrmr Ow mmr Wm & WwW 25 MR. - Which inmate? Do you recall? MR. : I don’t remember his name at the moment. MR. MM: Okay. And so, you put him in the shower, you said? . - Yeah. . : And what did I instruct you? MR. MB: And what - oh, just to give him a social call, and that’s it. MR. MMM: So, it was a social call, he mentioned? MR. + Mm-hmm. MR. : Not a legal call? MR. : I believe it was a social call. MR. MBB: And do you recall, who plugged the phone in? Was it you or I don’t remember who plugged the shave in. MR. QJ: Okay. And do you remenber who he said that Epstein wanted to talk to? MR. MMMM: No. He never told me who Epstein wanted to talk to. MR. MB: Was any of the instructions, MR. : Like -. . + Okay. : Because it was two years ago. He’ S got to -. And doesn't it say in there -- Yeah. It'll go. -- that - informed that he made the decision to “have Epstein call from C- -tier shower to make the call, and believes - vR. MMMM: That, I did. Because I told him, put him over here. Because we couldn't put him next to these other inmates. That, yeah. MR. MMM: Okay. Because those are the inmates that was threatening suicide? MR. : Yeah. MR. : Okay. MR. : They were, and they were on his tier. So, on L-tier? Was, people were threatening suicide? Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH RRR RR UW Wh RRR ona MNrMNNrNP wre ow rm wn Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe 26 like, did (BM walk with you to the -? Did he come into the shower area with you? MR. :_ No. MR. : Well, who provided him the call? Did give him the phone, or did you give him the phone? wR. BB: 1 think BD gave him the phone. he i All right. Because I didn't hand him the one. Oka’ T mean, a told me what he, son “know, what he needed or whatever. Okay. No problem. Took him over there to the shower, put him in there, and then, I can't remember who plugged in the phone, to give him the phone_call. I don’t remember right now. MR. : Because did you -- MR. : You might add - MR. : -- ever finish that sentence? So, finish the sentence -- MR. + Yeah. MR. : -+ before asking the questions. . : Yeah. . : Okay. I'm going to read that. | informed that he made the decision to have Epstein call from the G-tier shower to make the call, and believes guards and were present, as well. informed dialed the number for Epstein.” tere we go. Yeah, because this w 7 a_lon time pr B further informed that he did not overhear the conversation, and that was present for the call initially. And then, left before the call ended. P| says that during the Epstein call, another inmate, a was Claiming to want to come in from suicide, so that diverted some guards from Epstein.” And do you know how long Epstein’s call lasted? MR. MM: I'm not sure how long that call lasted. I'm sure we could look on the computer and et it. Do you know if [a slugged that Tine into the legal line, or the - ? that EFTA00115855

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PR POoOwo4OnNewnrpE RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mre r Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR & Wh RPRR SOW MMM Re Mme OS © oo mmr Wm & WwW MR. : I don’t. MR. : You don't know if it was a recorded phone call? MR. : I don’t. MR. : Okay. And was that normal? normally do that? Allow calls on the legal_line, or -? MR. QB: Not without permission, to my knowledge. WR. BE: Who would have to give permission? MR. WR: Like, I've heard times that, you know, a judge may call, like, this person needs a legal call. And when that happens or whatever, like, all right, we got to get these people a legal call. And so, that does happen, but I’ve never known him to do that on his own accord. MR. MM: Okay. Our understanding is, based on the investigation, I think Epstein stated that he wanted to call his mother. So, you think that would have been on the - that should have been on the -? MR. MM: That should have been on the recorded line. 31 eople that were in there, that stated that mY gave him a call, and left. Okay. And then, later, called back and said, hey, his phone call is up, go get the phone from him. . Mm-hme . Does that sound right? That sounds about right or whatever. I don't think I took that call. I do remember when -- “WR. [: | Yeah. did, either. wR. MB: -- yeah, but I know when everything was all said and done, then dealing with the other inmates, you know, I can't remember who took the phone out. I do remember helping somebody bring Epstein back to his cell, and put him in the cell, because I think I was the one that put him in the cell. You put him back into his . : In his cell. . : Okay. You know, from the shower, you brought Epstein back from G-tier But I don't think you Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn 30 MR. MBM: That should have been. Okay. And it should not have been on the legal line? MR. : No. MR. : And do you recall if stayed with him for a little bit? Did he listen to the conversation? Did anybody listen to the conversation? wR. J: that's -. WR. MM: Well, it says in here that - so, just read the -- MR. : Yeah. MR. : -+ yeah. wR. : Because I know I was up there for_a while. WR. QR: © Do you know how Jong MMM vias there? Was he there for the majority of the conversation, or just a portion? WR. BJ: 0h, maybe a portion, but I was busy at the time, so I couldn't -- MR. : Sure. MR. : == wasn’t looking at him the whole time. WR. QE: Because we have other I don't think so. Well, over to L-tier. MR. :_ To his cell. MR. : Or into his cell. Okay. MR. : So, when you went to get Epstein out of the cell, was the phone still in there with him? MR. : I don't remember. MR. : Okay. And do you know how long after he started the phone call, you brought him back to the cell? MR. :_ With everything going on -- MR. : Just read it. MR. :-- I mean -. MR. : I think it says it in there. So, you could keep on reading, and then, it’ll probably get to that. MR. aes all the guards dealt with inmate Epstein needed to be placed back in the cell. | recalls no other guard getting up to move Epstein, so he made the move at approximately 9:30 p.m.” “y Mm-hme “GH recalls quard Filing. out the 20- -minute round paperwork, while he did some of the administrative computer EFTA00115856

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RR POW OHO BwrPE RRR Bm Wh ee od al oe od Rr SoOW OND mre r Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr MRMNRRPRP RR RPE Pow onnuw 33 stuff. _ informed that -." MR. : Before we get onto that, though -- MR. : Yeah. MR. : -+ does that sound right? 9:30 p.m.? Was that when -- MR. + Mm-hmm, MR. : -+ $0, he basically was put in there - what does it sound like? - around 8:00, and then, about -- MR. + Mm-hmm, : == 9:30, you moved him MR. back? WR. MMM: Yeah. Because I, like, he had to stay in there a little longer than probably we wanted, because so much stuff was going on that day. Right. :_ Do you -. Go ahead. MR. : So, being that he was in there for probably an hour, maybe an hour and a half, the majority of that time wasn’t spent on the phone. Correct? MR. + No. MR. Can you estimate, like, 35 coming up to SHU to work overtime, who doesn't work up there all the time, they don’t know that the inmate pulled a fast one, and moved the thing that says legal down to social, and vice versa. MR. BM: «0h, well, the information we have is actually, it was an intentional legal line. So, not that, like, an orderly actually misplaced it, but it was intentionally MR. MB: No, no, no. Not the orderly putting the line in or whatever. What I'm saying is the stickers on the jacks on the wall. = Yeah, no, our information is that actually was instructed, or provided, was provided approval to give a legal . : Oh, okay. MR : And do a legal line. But the instructions were also, that we understand, that was supposed to monitor the entire call. : And that's where we're MR. MR. rR cow oH DU Sw MNP PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn RR BPOWwWo HO BwrPE RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn around -? WR. WBBM: Because if his phone calls ended after 15-minutes, if did call back or whatever, and that phone call - that phone is supposed to die, it’s supposed to go off anyway after acertain timeframe. MR. : Even on a legal line? MR. :_ Not on a legal line. MR. : Right. So, the information we have is, it was actually a legal line call. MR. Okay. MR. : And that’s what we're a little confused about, why he was given a personal call on a legal line. But do you know anything about that? MR. QB: I know up there in that SHU, that if - and it’s very difficult, especially when you're short-staffed - you know, you have orderlies that walk around and, you know, try to help keep the place clean. If you're short staffed, and you can't be everywhere, and you have an orderly cleaning the tier, they will take those little things, and flip the, you know? Like, so, if you have somebody that's 36 trying to get, like, all right, well, how long was that call, and how long did he monitor? Do you know? MR. : Gotcha. : And do you know that? : That, I don’t know. Because I MR. MR. MR. So, if it lasted 15 minutes, do you think he was there for, like, five minutes? The fact that he had to go back somewhere, and then call, and say, hey, his call is up, get that -- MR. : Yeah. MR. . -- phone from him. Do you remember -? Just because you put in there that he did stay for the call. Can you -- MR. :_ Yes, I'm -- MR. : -- in your recollection at all, can you think about, about how long he was even there? MR. QJ: Probably somewhere between five to ten minutes, but, like -- MR. Okay. MR. : -- I mean, like, all that time passed now, and I was running around, and -- EFTA00115857

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RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr 37 MR. QM: Sure. But just, you know he wasn't_there for the whole entire thing? Okay. Mm-hme And just to clarify, you don't recall if gave instructions to you, or if you overheard him give instructions to or about -- Sure. Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH -- monitoring the call? No. Okay. Like, because usually, ona social call, you don’t really have to monitor, because you could just go on the computer, and listen to the phone call. You know, on legal calls, you know, they have attorney/client privilege, so you can't listen anyway. So, any time I know it may be a legal call going on, and I know I can't listen in, it’s because they - well, this is now - but they put inmates in a little visit room for their legal calls, so they could do the teleconference because of COVID. to jump MR. : No. MR. :_ Because I'm goin off. Okay. “ recalls guard filling out the 30-minute round paperwork while he did some administrative computer stuff.” MR. + Mm-hmm MR. : Do you know if she pre-filled the 30-minute round paperwork? MR. : I do not. Okay. Is this the paperwork? PRR RP RRP RR (ee a ee MNrMNNrNP wre ow nm wn Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe What's this? MR. : MR. : sheet. Yeah. . HBB: This would be during evening Yeah. That's the 30-minute round So, it’s on August 9th, Is that for the SHU? Mm-hmm. Nope. This is L- This is morning watch. Mn-hmm Day watch. Evening watch. 38 WR. - Mn=hinm MR. : But I can't even - you know - I can't sit there and listen to him make his regal al Sure. 0, I, you know -? So, either way, you didn' t ann you had to listen, because if it was a legal line, you can't listen; if it was social ht it was supposed to be recorded? - All right. And then, do you = WR. BM: And if we had more time, if I knew, you know -- MR. : Yeah, yeah, yeah. MR. :_-- what to do. MR. : Absolutely. But do you remember, did he instruct you to monitor the call after he left? MR. : No. MR. : No. MR. : . MR. : Okay. Okay. Any other questions on that? 40 MR. MB: Okay. And you were working during evening watch, right? . : From 2:00 to 10:00. . : So, who was doing the round sheets? wR. : So, this is I right here. MR. : Who's on the other one? MR. : This one? MR. : Yeah. MR. : I have no idea whose signature this is. This is day shift. Yeah. I don't know whose si nature this is right here. MR. : ER Is it - : Actual - : Like, It actually mght be. Yeah. rt Yeah. You're not sure, but though? Yeah. Maybe. Because it stops, it k like, at about 2:00 p.m., and wasn’t done by, like, around. 2:00 p.m.? WR. MMM: That's exactly right, because that's when I came in. So, I relieved EFTA00115858

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PR POoOwo4OnNewnrpE RRR UW & Wh RR SD RR © oo RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR Wh RPRR SOW MMM Re Mme OS © oo mmr Wm & WwW that day. So, he stopped right here. MR. And is that why they stopped there, because he left? MR. : So, it looks like they weren't -- MR. QM: -- yeah, so, I guess the WR. GM: -- filled in for the rest of the -- MR. :_-- right, because the -- MR. : o-- time. MR. : == date, when I relieved him, I guess he must have been the one controlling this paper. So, I relieved him. And the crew here didn't continue it. I just came in. So, I probably didn't know at the time or whatever. But I think we probably did say later, like, what the hell is this? MR. : Okay. So, it’s probably HE. ind then, as you noticed, the other -. Do you know why the other round counts wouldn't be filled - the round -? + These? Yeah. . : All right. . : She wasn't at work yet. . : Gotcha. So, what -. So, we have information, the investigation has informed us that she actually pre-populated the round sheets that she filled out. Do you know anything about her? When you say that she filled out these things, did she fill them all out in front of you? Did you see that? MR. Huh-uh. I didn't see her do that. MR. QM: You didn't see her pre- populate it? Okay. Go ahead. MR. ME: “HED informed that, before . I'm sorry. Sorry. I should follow up. What did you see her do? Since you said that you saw her filling out the round sheets. MR. : Yeah. So -- . : What did you see? MR : -- yeah, I just saw the round sheet sitting there, and she was doing it. So, I'm assuming that she’s just doing it for, Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WME OC woo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRR Un Wh RR SD MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn MR : Why they wouldn't be filled in? MR. For the day watch. The end of day watch, and that would be from -- MR. From 2:00 to 4:00. MR. -- 2:00 p.m. -. Yeah. MR. Or 2:30, in this case. From 2:30 to 4:00. I'm going to assume that they were forgetting because, like, from what I'm looking at here - and this is just an assumption - from what I'm looking at here, from the time got into work, he was the one filling out this paper. Nobody else probably thought about it. MR. : Okay. So, when you mentioned that was filling out the 30- minute round sheets, you’re talking about over here? MR. : Yeah. MR. : Okay. So, she was filling out_the -- MR. : Yeah -- MR. : == the day watch. MR. : == because she wasn’t here 44 okay, cool, we just did that round. And I'm on the computer, doing the other admin work. MR. : Okay. So, you just -- MR. : Because -. MR. : == saw her doing something, but you weren’t really watching over her? wR. a: Yeah. Because the thing is, because remember when you asked me about the SHU one position, and I'm SHU three? This is the tricky part. may be on paper as SHU one, but he’s on overtime. I worked up there every day. I'm the only one who has access to do the stuff on the computer. MR. Okay. MR. : So -. MR. : And what type of stuff were you doing on the computer? MR. : So, the computer, you do 583s. You do the - there’s another SHU log-in there - you do the -. MR. When you say 583, that’s an incident report, right? MR. MM: Yeah. The incident reports. You do the daily, like, inmates took showers, EFTA00115859

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PR POoOwo4OnNewnrpE RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mre r Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR & Wh RPRR SOW MMM Re Mme OS © oo mmr Wm & WwW and then, the OIC thing has to have a signature, but because nobody else has the access to it, that portion will fall on me because the paperwork still has to get done Right. So, you were the one on your shift that had access to the actual computer systems -- Yeah, because they don’t. So, I'm, Sure. -- handle this paperwork. physical paperwork. I'll take care of the computerized. MR. Okay. MR. : “ informed that, before he left, he conducted a round and spoke to Epstein, and asked, ‘Are you good?’, to which Epstein gave a thumbs up response.” MR. : Yes. MR. : When you say conducted a The 47 The wording on this is wrong. Do you recall stating that to and MP “Nake sure you watch him”? Yes, I did. “He's your priority."? Yeah, I did. Why would you state something like that? MR. MM: I just didn't like the way he was looking. I can't determine what this man was thinking, but -. And he normally, you know, saying, you ask him a question, if it’s a yes or ano question, he would normally just give you a thumbs up or whatever, and stuff, like, pretty much just not want to be bothered with you, for the most part. MR. MM: Well, it was -. Wasn't it not true that he was kind of the priority for the whole SHU? Was this sign up in the SHU, saying that, “Mandatory rounds must be conducted every 30 minutes on Epstein, as per God.” MR. + Yeah. seeing that? That was in the SHU. So, do you remember Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn 46 round, did you conduct a round through all the tiers, or just around up to Epstein, just to check on him? MR. MB: 1 specifically went to Epstein. > Okay. I specifically went to that . - And you checked on him? . : And I checked. I looked at him. Yo, you good? He gave me a thumbs up or whatever. All right. MR. PE So, what do you mean? Yeah. So, that, I think what his clarification is, you did a round on Epstein. You didn't do a round throughout the SHU. Correct? MR. : No. Not throughout the SHU. I have ree checked on him, MR. Oh, gotcha. Okay. MR. said that, before he left, he went back to guards (i and and -", oh, this - pet said that, —. he left, he went back to guards and WN, and ‘Wake sure you watch him." Referring to Epstein, “He's your priority.” 48 MR. J: I do remember seeing that. Where it was actually posted or whatever, I don't know. a: the computers. wR. HE: Yeah. Yeah. WR. QM: So, I'm assuming that's also part of the reason why you checked on Epstein. Correct? Mm-Hhme . Because he was the SHU I think it was on one of I do remember seeing that. priority? MR. | ae MR. : Yeah. And then, you were just reinforcing two of the people when you left, “Make sure you got him"? MR. + Mm-hmm MR. : Okay. MR. : And then, I looked at the guy, and then, you, you know, he just had a look on his face. I'm, like, and then, that -. And I'm, like, yeah. I stopped. MR. —. So, you actually thought something might be up? EFTA00115860

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR Wh RPRR SOW MMM Re Mme OS © oo mmr Wm & WwW 49 MR. MMM: Yeah. Because I'm looking at him, he gave me the thumbs up or whatever. I'm, like, he just looked different. I can't explain it. But he just looked different. You know, he didn't look like himself. He's an entitled -- whatever. You know? Just very nonchalantly or MR. . : Yeah. . : That's not a fact. . : Did you mention that at VR. MM: AN] right. So, you : Yeah, yeah. MR : == you know, rich guy or whatever, I'm, like, you don’t usually do it that way. : Okay. So, you -- MR. : But that's my personal opinion. vR. MI: I didn't tel) them that part. I just said, “Watch this guy.” didn't say why to watch him -- MR. + Hmm=mm, MR. : -+ you just said, “Make sure you watch him"? 51 : + SO -. MR a. And that would have been right around 10:00 p.m. Yeah. Right before I left, I keep an eye on that dude. : Okay. And right out the door. : Okay. Did they respond to you? Did okay? MR. _. I don't even remember if they did. I know they heard me because I was standing right in front of them, but I don't even remember if they responded or not. MR. And then, when he gave you a thumbs up, did he say anything else to you? MR. ff Hmm-nmn . MR. : There was no verbal conversation? MR. No. MR. Okay. MR. He very rarely talked unless he wanted something. Yeah. MR. MM: Okay. And just because I'm showing you these documents, can you initial rR SCweeH4OD wre RRR RR UW Wh RRR ona MMM NNYVre Se wWwMNre Owe rm wn RR BPOWwWo HO BwrPE RPRRR Un Wh RR SD MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr &—wWwrNre © © oo rm wn 50 MR. MM: Yeah. I didn't give them no details. I just said, “Watch this guy.” WR. a. Did you have a feeling that he might hurt himself or anything like that? WR. MB: I didn't know, but I just felt that it was the best thing to just keep an eye on this dude. MR. : Okay. MR. :Mm-hmm. MR. : Something - your spidey senses went_up and said - something -- MR. a MR. : == something is amiss here, or make sure you're watching him. MR. : Yeah. MR. : And your positive you told them that? MR. :_ Yeah. MR. Okay. And to both of them? Or you just said it both at the same time, or individually? WR. QM: I said it both at the same time. WR. BR: A011 right. and date the top of them? It’s not to test what's on_the documents, it’s more to -- MR. To show you that -- MR. -- for our records, that -. MR. -- I saw it. MR. You saw it. documents we showed you. MR. And you want me to sign and date? These are WR. WB: Initial and date. Today is 8/5/2021. MR. MR. And you said it was 8/5 -? ‘21. The same thing for the other ones, too. Excuse me. This one, too? MR. a. Yes, please. This, we'll keep, just in case we go back and refer to it. So, I'm going to read that line back, and finish off the paragraph. “IM said that, before he left, he went back to guards {i and , and, ‘Make sure you watch him,” referring -.” MR. : And stated. MR. :_ Yeah. MR. : Make sure you have that word. EFTA00115861

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PRR RP RP RPP RPL COND SWNHEOWOHD SBWwrP Mmmenmyr mer OoOw mre r Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP 53 MR. QR: “And stated,” just make sure I put that, “And stated, ‘Make sure you watch him,’ referring to Epstein, ‘He's your priority.’” MR. + Mm-hmm. MR. : “BBB stated that Epstein seemed normal and he was just sitting there.” MR. And that's correct. Right? MR. MBB: © Mm-hmn. Yeah because, like, it's an opinion of mine. I can't tell you -- MR. : Sure. MR. -- what I'm thinking. MR. Absolutely. We just want to make sure that the report is accurate. WR. MB: “BE explained the 30- minute rounds, and when asked about the paperwork, stated that the exact times are probably off because they are estimates.” What do you mean by “Estimates”? MR. Because, at that point in time, it was only three of us in there. You know, $0, a is working overtime. So, he's doing multiple things. He’s doing his regular job, and SHU stuff at the same time. 55 WR. MM: So, you're saying that they went in and they did the rounds? MR. Yeah. I've seen it. Because as I'm doing my paperwork and talking to inmates and stuff like that, they were moving the whole time. I, you know, like, if I remember correctly, I barely saw them sit down. MR. So, you saw them moving. Did you actually see them do the rounds, or you just saw them move? MR. MM: 1 saw them going in and out of tiers or whatever, because a -. I know had a blue bin, at one point in time, he was going from tier to tier, doing something. And I think J had the key. You know, but it was a lot of movement that day. So, I guess that’s the best way to put it. MR. So, you Saw movement, but you don’t -. You didn't actually see (Indiscernible *00:34:18)? MR. FJ: They had to go down the range, but I didn't, like -. Every single time, at every 30-minute mark -- MR. Yeah. MR. -- I don't know. rR cow oH DU Sw MNP PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn RR BPOWwWo HO BwrPE RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn 54 So, and then, you got dudes over here acting like they want to commit suicide. So now, as you're doing rounds, and everything is going on, you talk to one inmate, now this inmate has a problem. You may forget sometimes to go up there and just write it, you know, write it in or whatever. So, sometimes they might be, like, shit, fuck, I forgot. And then, they'll go back or whatever. I'm not saying, but that’s just, you know, normal or whatever, like, oh, man, I forgot. And you just go write in it. That's just normal, how they do it. That’s why I hate these papers. I rather just do it on the computer because you can't miss. MR. : You have questions on that? MR. But there’s still some more, right? WR. WE: Yeah. “when told that there is a video of the SHU area, IM stated that he would be surprised to see video of the rounds not being conducted.” MR. Mm-hmm MR. When asked about -. MR. Because they were on their feet all day. MR. : Okay. MR. : Just finish the thing, and then -- MR. :_ Yeah. : == you can ask the MR. additional questions. MR. “When asked about the round sheets and the sign-off procedures, could not clearly remember who did what rounds exactly, or what, if any, rounds he did. Only Mm-hmm . that -- fs. -- he would not have signed MR. MR. off on the rounds had they not been conducted.” MR. That's true. MR. And based on the round sheets, you’re saying that you saw I? MR. Mm-hme . MR. Is that [MY signature on - : That's I. : == on the evening watch? Mm-hme . . : Is that for all the tiers? (Indiscernible *00:34:50). EFTA00115862

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PR POoOwaoHnOnN ewnrHe ee el ee ed WN SweOHDN &whR mr os RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RPRRPRRPR SD ew PM MMM Re Mme OS © oo nm w MR. : This is -- That's for L-tier, right? -- this is for L-tier. Each sheet is for a different tier. And this is J- tier. So, J-tier didn't get finished. K-tier didn't get_finished. MR. MM: What do you mean, they didn't get finished? MR. : There's blank spots. MR. : For what time? MR. : 11:00 and 12:00. MR. : What were they doing? MR. : 11:00 - excuse me - 11:00 and through 11:30. MR. : What's your take -- So -. -- on why they would be Maybe they didn't -. Maybe I don't know. I “don't know I'm thinking too much they didn’ t do it. why it would be empty. now because I'm, like, if this was finished, why wasn’t _-? MR. - MR. : What is it? You hesitated. On August 9th and 10th -- Yeah. -- do you recall where these forms were? wR. PE: desk. MR. : MR. : MR. : to be kept? MR. MM: When initially I was trained, they were on the desk. As time went on, they said they wanted them on the tiers. So, a definitive answer on that, the instruction on that has changed so much, like, you know, one - I believe this was by the On the officer’s desk? I believe so. Where are the forms supposed MR. > Mn-hmm, MR. : == one day, they was, like, keep them on the ranges, another day you come in or whatever, leave it right here so you can't miss it, so you don’t lose any papers. vR. MMM: why do they keep it on the ranges? ve. i: So, on the ranges, when you do Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn 58 WR. - Explain that. MR. : Like, I don't know. Because if you were doing the round here, how did you - ? Unless something happened at that time, at night, but I wasn’t at work at that time. Because this is after -- Okay. -- this is after 10:00. After 10:00. So, I wasn 't here for this. So, you're saying there's about three tiers where it wasn't finished off, right? The K-tier. Mm-hme . That's J-tier. That's J. And -. }-tier. : H-tier. And G. They weren't finished off? Hinen-me . Okay. Do you know where? Where were these round sheets kept in the SHU? MR. WEB: There's been so many changes 60 do a round or whatever, you go and do a whole round, when you get to the end of the range, the paper is right there on the clipboard. you could sign it, and finish the round, and come out. vk. a: actually -- K-tier. H. So, Just to ensure that they're Right. -- doing their rounds. And how many people are needed to conduct rounds? WR. MM: Only one person is needed to conduct a round. MR. : Not two people? MR. : No. Two people are needed for a count. MR. : And -. MR. : Because, you know, like, in the -. Unless it’s one -. WR. GM: «was that per policy, or is that per practice? MR. : Per practice. When you do a round, it’s one person that opens the grill, and one person goes down. Is that what you mean? Because, you know, a count, one person Okay. EFTA00115863

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PR POoOwo4OnNewnrpE RR wr PRR SOW Le ed oll med Mme S woo mre r Wn & Ww 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 61 goes down, comes out, and then, the next person goes down and comes out. But for a round, only one person. WR. QM: So, we were informed by per policy, at least, counts and rounds are conducted exactly the same way. The only thing difference is that, in a count, you count inmates. Is that not correct? MR. MBM: Not the way I was taught, but that’s per - I'm going to be honest - that’s per practice. MR. QM: «And is that even to date, that's what they do? MR. MBM: 1 haven't been in the SHU . : Okay. -- so, I don't know what they're “doin up there. MR. nea Oh, you haven't been in SHU since this date? MR. QM: I've been in there after that date, but_I haven't been in the SHU in months. WR. QM: Okay. So, when you were, after that date, though, they never went over, like, how to conduct a round? And so, yeah, VR. MM: «So, what is your understanding, if the one person is only filling out the count, is she filling it out on behalf of - so, in this case, it was - is she filling it out on behalf of everybody in the SHU, or is she only saying that she conducted the round? MR. HB: I'm going to assume that she was filling it out for everybody that was working. Like, so, if she did a round, and — did a round, she just filled it out, in that case. I learned my lesson from that, so I only signed when I did it. MR. a. Yeah, yeah, yeah. that point forward, correct? MR. MM: Hell no. I knew that, learned that before it. MR. ac All right. MR. : So, you only would fill it out. So, you're not, obviously, on here. is she filling it out for both you and yas well? MR. :_I'm going to assume, maybe. MR. : Okay. MR. : But I don't know what her For But Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn 62 everything that we’re saying is that a round and a count is exactly the same. Two people are needed. The only difference is, during a count, you count. Hmm. No. I don’t -- You've never heard of -- I don’t remember - after that incident - I don’t remember having that discussion with anyone. MR. : So, your understanding is only one person -- MR. : That's my -- MR. : == per count -- -- that's my understanding. -- per round. Okay. Okay. Any other questions on the rounds? WR. MMM: Yeah. So, as far as, do you know if these rounds that were on this round sheet, were they all conducted as it’s filled out? . :_ That, I don't know, because -- . : You're not sure? . : -- I'm not sure. thought process is with this. WR. BE: «So, how it mentioned there that, you know, the video would be reviewed. That video has been reviewed, in detail. . :_Mm-hmm. : Do you believe that all these rounds were conducted on that date? MR. MM: I believe the vast majority of them should have been. Now, were all of them? Because I know for a fact, me personally, I wasn't the one to do every -- MR. : So, you -- MR. :_-- single round. MR. : == $0, you weren’t the one conducting the round, but you can't say if the other people were? MR. :_ I can't -- MR. : You can only -. MR. :_-- I can't say that. MR. : All right. Do you believe all those rounds were conducted? WR. MM: I believe, I definitely believe this - what is this? L and M, and I'm just confused as to the rest. EFTA00115864

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RR POW OHO BwrPE RRR Bm Wh ee od al oe od Rr SoOW OND mre r Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr RPRRPRPRPR Wwonnu > mmn we wre © mr wn MR. : Because again -- . + But -- : -- we have -. Like, our investigation has showed that that was all pre- filled out. So, yeah. And that -. Wait a And I don't know why she would ore- -fi1l out some of them, but not the rest. MR. : MR. : Explain. MR. : Yeah. Because of the times. 01:02, 33:34. 03 to 04. And then, then you flip the page, it's the same thing. It’s just a minute difference. I see why. MR. MM: «So, now that you’re looking at it, do you believe that those are accurate? MR. : This stuff. It’s pre-filled. MR. : It's pre-filled? These are pre-filled? wR. QM: That - and yeah - it’s a good possibility that's pre-filled. MR. a. And what do you know I see. I see why. Yeah. WR. BBB: At the time, usually, I stopped messing with this after my first incident, and dealing with this round sheet. it out. If I I don’t sign it. yeah. So, what I'm So, if I do a round, I fil] wasn't the one that did it, “R. : | Yeah, talking about, from August, basically 10th, from the time he was found, previous to that, would you pre-populate round sheets? No, I didn't pre-populate. : Okay. Because I learned something before that time, to -- Oh, what did you learn . Because that was a problem, with people doing that before, and nobody wanting to sign round sheets, for what reason or whatever. So, I was, like, okay, if I did it, sign it; if I didn't do it, not sign it. That’s how I learned my lesson. That’s why my name is not_on this. MR. GM: Okay. So, your name wasn't specifically on that round sheet because you're, like, I'm not signing it, and getting rR cow oH DU Sw MNP RRR RR Wm Wh RR SD MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn RR BPOWwWo HO BwrPE RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MmMNmMNrMNrMrRR WwNrrH Sooo about -. WR. MM: =I can't say that that’s for sure what_she did. But by reviewing it -- I could see where -- -- from your knowledge -. -- I could see where that assumption would come from. MR. QM: «But from your knowledge and experience, by looking at the way that that's filled out, you would say that that's pre-filled? WR. MM: Yes. Uh-huh. It’s a possibility. MR. a. And have you ever pre- filled out round sheets? MR. . MR. : Do people -- MR. :_ Not to my knowledge. -- do people in general fill out round sheets, and they fill them out, pre-fill them? I'm sure they don’t now. But did they at the time, 68 jammed up for it? WR. BB: If I'm not getting jammed up, if I did it, I sign it; if I didn't do it, and you did it, because I won't sign for anybody else. WR. WM: «I gotcha. So, she was signing for everybody else, but you wouldn't sign for everybody else. MR. : Yeah. I didn't even -. I didn't touch this paper at all that night. MR. —, Okay. But previous to that, would you have touched the papers? MR. : Previous to that, I probably would have done rounds. But I wouldn’t have pre-populated the whole thing, like that. MR. QM: Would you ever pre- populate any part of it? MR. a. No. I don't think I pre- populate. I don’t remember a time that I did pre-populate a thing or whatever. Now, what I will say, because I know it’s common or whatever, in the beginning, I probably had something pre-prepped for the count, and that messed up or whatever. WR. QE: § So, you would pre-prep EFTA00115865

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RR POW OHO BwrPE RRR Bm Wh ee od al oe od Rr SoOW OND mre r Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr MRMNRRPRP RR RPE Pow onnuw 69 the count. Not a round. MR. MM: 1 pre-prepped the count slip or whatever. I pre-prepped it. MR. —. Okay. So, you pre- prepped the count slips, but not the round sheets. MR. :_I didn't do this. MR. : Okay. MR. : Fair enough. MR. : And that’s a lesson learned. So, I learned my lesson -- Sure. -- from that. Fair enough. Okay. . Okay. And when you said you pre-prepped the count, are you talking about the night_of August 9th? MR. 4:00 p.m. MR. The 4:00 p.m. count. was pre-prepped? MR. Mm-hmm. I pre-prepped it because of my -. There was so much going on, everybody's leaving, some people coming in, and stuff like that. I'm, like, okay, count time . + Mm-hmm, MR : All right. saying that _-. MR. Because you will get pressured to hurry up and finish the count, even though the job to work in the SHU, the crew is supposed to be four. Very rarely, you're going to have four. You're asked to do the job with four people, with sometimes three, and sometimes two. MR. Right. MR. : So, you're going to -. Your phone is ringing, you’re getting pressured, you're getting supervisors coming at you. So, if you don’t have a way, you're going to find a way. MR. «But that's what the master sheet that you refer to? MR. +The El. MR. Oh, did you have access to the E1? MR. MBM: I don’t think I had access to the El at_that time. MR. MR. That So, you're So, how -- : Yeah. rR cow oH DU Sw MNP PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn RR BPOWwWo HO BwrPE RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn 70 or whatever you -. I wrote it out. I don’t remember if I put a number in there or not yet, or whatever. And then, the count was supposed to take place. So, I pre-wrote it or whatever. And then, we just kept working. But there was a lot going on that day. So. MR. a. Perfect. So, going to that paragraph, and then -- MR. Okay. MR. -- you can clarify it. Yeah. So -. . “When asked about the count number in the SHU, for the -.” MR. Finish the paragraph, Don't -. WR. WM: Yeah. “when asked about the count number in the SHU, for the date, and the number matching the MCC master number, stated, ‘This would be a mistake on my part.’ He probably just used the numbers off the master sheet, and that there was probably signing off, down in response to pressure, and having the count cleared.” MR. So, was this what you're referring to? too. 72 WR. QM: -- if you say that would have been_during this interview, then -- MR. Like, because I don’t think I had access to the El at that time. I think I had -. It's another roster that we have in the SHU. Like, not a running board. What is the damn thing? I ain't been in there in a while. SHU located. We have a SHU locater. And in that or whatever, when people move, you change it on that paper or whatever. Like, now - if you've been up there - there’s a board up there now. _ Okay. : You know? So, when you - on MR. MR. that locater or whatever, that’s probably what I used because I don't believe I had access to this at that time. MR. probably -- MR. All right. So, you Because I wasn’t working control at that time. MR. used the SHU locator, and the amount of inmates that were listed on the SHU locater, to fill out the 4:00 p.m. count sheet? -- so, at the time, you EFTA00115866

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RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR Wh RRR oN MmNMNyr Mrmr Ow nm Ww 73 MR. MMM: Yeah. Because, like, when you're up there or whatever, like, the day shift, they got to keep that SHU locater right for the most part. You know what I'm saying? You can't really screw that up. mR = okay. MR. : So, Iwas, like, okay. Boom. And I - but like I said - I don’t remember writing a number in there or whatever, but if I did, I did. MR. Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH That’s my mistake. I own that. But you do remember that you pre-populated it, though? . I do remember that. Because it’s - : Like, I know I wrote my name, and then I wrote the date, and stuff like that, or whatever. MR. MB: Let's take a look. showing you the El. MR. + Mm-hmm. MR. : And the count sheets for -. Is this for the 4:00 p.m. count on August 9th? MR. + Mm-hmm. MR. : (Can you - this is the £1 on the front, right? RRR RR UW Wh RRR ona I'm MNrMNNrNP wre ow rm wn 75 number in here. I know I put the date and the time, and then, I signed down here. MR. : Does that number look like it was you? MR. : It looks like it -- MR. : Okay. MR. : == but I don’t recall doing it. MR. = Okay. MR. : I don't. doing that. WR. QM: «Do you know if you conducted the count at 4:00 p.m.? MR. + No. MR. : So, does that mean you did not conduct the 4:00 p.m. count? MR. MM: I did not. Because, like, I was -. That’s why I'm at the bottom. I was, like, I filled it out or whatever. All right. We going to do this. We going to do that. And I was running, too. I was ripping and running or not. I thought that they did. So. MR. a. All right. But you didn't conduct the 4:00 p.m. count? wR. BB: No. Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe I do not recall 74 MR. MBM: Yeah. So, this is the 4:00 p.m. count, because this is printed out on 15:41. WR. MM: Take a look at the back, for your CV, at the count slip that you - for that. Keep going. Is it there? WR. a Just highlight it, so that we can -. All right. So, ZA. That's the SHU. Correct? MR. + Mm-hmm, MR. : And it shows 75? MR. . MR. : And then, done at 4:00 Who is listed on here? MR. : and i. MR. : All right. So, that’s yourself, correct? And then, you say you're the one who filled that out right? MR. :_ Yeah. MR. : Is that your handwriting? MR. : Yeah. It looks like mine. MR. : All right. Cool. MR. : The date? MR. : Yeah, but I didn't -. But I didn't put the -. I don’t recall putting the 76 WR. QM: | You thought that they did, though? MR. :_ I thought that they did. MR. : Do you know if they did? MR. : I think they did that, but I don't know for sure right now. No. MR. : You're not sure? MR. : It’s been too long. MR. : You didn't. MR. :_ Yeah. MR. : You signed it. MR. : I didn't. MR. : But you don't know if -. All right. So, now you can go into those questions. MR. : So. MR. : How many people are needed to do the count? MR. : At least two. MR. : At least two? MR. + Mm-hmm. MR. : And you said that you don’t know if they did, but since you -- MR. Pa Yeah. I was -- MR. : -+ signed it, it -- p.m. EFTA00115867

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PR POoOwaoHnOnN ewnrHe ee el ee ed WN SweOHDN &whR mr os RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR & Wh RPRR SOW MMM Re Mme OS © oo mmr Wm & WwW 77 MR. QM: -- it was an assumption. So, that was my fault. So, I take that. MR. : Okay. So, technically, it should have been you and whoever else -- MR. + Mm-hmm. MR. : -- signed off on it, should have done -- MR. : MR. : the count? MR. + Hmm=mm. MR. : No, not to recall. He said he did not do the recall. MR. : Yeah. MR. :_ Yeah. MR. : He just said -- MR. : That he did not. MR. : == he doesn't know if the other two did. WR. QR: Okay. that number was accurate? MR. MM: If - I'm going to find out I'm sorry. MR. - MR. : So, that number was accurate 79 assigned as a Special Housing Unit officer, I proceeded to enter the Nine South visiting room. As I walked towards the door, I observed through the visiting room door, inmate Fernandez, register number 86824-054, attempt to grab an unknown item from his visitor. Once inmate Fernandez reached to grab the item, I called the door, and called for a lieutenant. Once I was able to enter the visiting room, I gave inmate Fernandez a direct order to walk the visiting room, walk off the visiting room, to conduct a visual search. Inmate Fernandez complied, and a visual search was conducted. The operations lieutenant was contacted, and inmate Fernandez was removed from the unit.” MR. + Mm-hmm. MR. : Now, this is the lieutenant logs for that day. This is for August 9th. This is day watch. MR. + Mm-hmm. MR. : The lieutenant log states, “Inmate Fernandez, 86824054, on dry cell with staff watch in R&D.” If you look down here, 3:15 p.m., inmate Fernandez was placed on dry cell. Mm-hme -- but you don’t recall doing Now, do you know if now. Yeah. No problem. Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH RRR RR Wm Wh RR SD MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRPR RR SOM WPM wee — 78 there. So, if the base count was 76, that’s because Epstein was at his legal visit. MR. : Okay. I'm going to -. start off with the 4:00 p.m. count. WR. FM: © (indiscernible *00:48:03). This stuff. That’s all. there. MR. a: Okay. I'm going to show you a memo. It’s an email a! to MN HM, and it's regarding to a shot. Right before inmate, hmm, Leonardo Fernandez, do you recall Fernandez - inmate Fernandez - being in the SHU that day? MR. : I don’t even know who that is. MR. : He was an inmate in the SHU. And if you can read the -. WR. QM: You can just it for him. You don’t_have to ask. MR. : Yeah. Let's All Well, yeah. This is filled out by It’s in regards to Leonardo Fernandez. The incident date is 8/9/2019. It's at 1:40 p.m. MR. + Mm-hmm., MR. : “On August 9th, 2019, at approximately 1:40 p.m., I, SOS , while 80 MR. QR: Mm-hnm. And wait, the time for this one was -? WR. BBM: That just states the daily sensitive information. So, this is -- MR. : Okay. MR. : -+ this is at 3:15 p.m. So, I'm going to show you the midnight sheet count. MR. + Mm-hmm. MR. : From August 10th. This is August 10th. Inmate Fernandez is - again - it states there. If you notice, 12:35 a.m., it was corrected. Inmate Fernandez was removed from the SHU at 3:15 p.m., and was never keyed out of the SHU. WR. QR: | Show him the quarterly assignment roster. MR. : Yeah. MR. : That's all in order. Here it = MR. aa: So, what ha the midnight Tieutenant, on -- MR. : MR. : ened was, when Mm-hme . -- she realized there was a - EFTA00115868

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RPRRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr MR. : A discrepancy. MR. : -+ a discrepancy. MR. + Mm-hmm. MR. : So, she went in, she checked it, and she corrected it at 12:35. If you paid, if you look at the inmate history, of the quarters for Fernandez, he was assigned to the -- from August 2nd, at -- 14:33. -- 14:33. And he was keyed MR. MR. On the 10th. -- August 10th. At 12:35 a.m. MR. | 5 Mm-hmm MR. : Now, if you -. Well, if he was out of the SHU. Now, the day started off with 77 inmates. MR. + Mm-hmm. MR. And let’s remember, don’t MR. : So, that should have been 74. MR. : -- don't look at this. 83 MR. MBM: What's today’s date again? Seventh? . : 8/5. : + 8/5. MR : So, like you said, you just took the number off the master list and filled that_in? And when you say master you called it something different. | ih locator. : The inmate locator. | one, too. : So, does that refresh your memory now, though -- MR. Z. MR. : -+ that they didn't provide you a number, you just filled that in off of that? MR. | MR. : Yes? VR, VR. WR. VR, Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH RRR RR UW Wh RRR oma MNrMNNrNP wre ow nm wn Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe Look at this. : Okay. So, it should have been 74. So, now, you understand that MR. MR. 4:00 p.m.? MR. :_No. MR. conducted? MR. MR. MR. MR. Sorry, I didn't hear what you -. Did you say -? . :_No. MR : No. All right. So, do you know now that the count was not conducted? MR. Yes. : Okay. Great. : Can you - same thing as MR. MR. before - can you initial these documents to say that these are the ones we showed you. . + Yes, : Good. Thank you. : This is the memo. Could you just initial and date this for me? Do you have anything else on that? MR. No. MR. On that count. Sorry. This is the 5:00 p.m. count. Just initial the -. Initial and date the 5:00 p.m. count here. MR. : 4:00 p.m. MR. : I mean 4:00 p.m. reading the bottom. MR. It’s all good. MR. Move on? MR. : Yup. MR. All right. “fi was asked several questions about Epstein, and specifically if guard advised about Epstein needing a cell mate, to which responded, ‘No.’” Do you -? MR. Read that again. MR. : “BBB was asked several questions about Epstein, and specifically, if guard advised about Epstein needing a cell mate, to which [MM responded, ‘No.'” Yes. Is that count accurate for So, was the count No? I keep EFTA00115869

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RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr RPRRPRPRPR Wwonnu > mmn we wre © 85 MR. MM: Yeah. I didn't get that. Okay. I thought you said I said that Epstein didn't need -- MR. : No. MR. -- an inmate. Yeah. like, nah, that -. I didn't have a -. remember having a conversation with about him telling me that Epstein needed a cell mate or anything like that. No. MR. : What -? MR. : But he was supposed to have a cell mate. vk. cell mate? MR. MR. have a cell mate? MR. MM: Well, no, I'm saying he had a cell mate. It was the little, short dude. That was his cell mate. I think his cell mate got released that day. MR. How do you know the cell mate got released that day? MR. MM: 0h, just word of mouth, because, like, I'm trying to remember what I'm, I don’t He was supposed to have a He had a cell mate. So, why was he supposed to 87 with that, he’s supposed to have. can't put_him with anybody. MR. No, but you know -- MR. : So, some -. MR. -- you notified a lieutenant? MR. MMM: Yeah. So, somebody has to tell me who they want me to put in there with him. Because if you tell me to put somebody in there, and that person beats him up. MR. =. All right. So, if you put him in at, you said, 9:30. Correct? Was that when you're talking about? MR. : Yeah. When I - yeah - after the shower. After he had his little phone call and I put him back or whatever. Yeah, I asked, like, does anybody want me to put him in there with -. MR. MM: «So, you're acting like you're talking on the phone. So, did you get on the phone with someone? WR. MM: Yeah. I got on the phone with someone, and I, like, who it was at that time, I don’t remember. MR. MBM: So, this, can you check the But you rR cow oH DU Sw MNP PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn RR BPOWwWo HO BwrPE RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn 86 happened because, like, because I remember, when I put him in the cell, I was, like, where the hell is your fucking cell mate at? MR. a. So, you actually -. When you put Epstein back from the shower, you mean? MR. :_ Yeah. MR. : You asked him where his - ? MR. QM: I asked where, you know, where is your cellee? Or whatever. So, he said, like, he got released. So, I don’t -. Like, I don't know if he actually did get released or not, or whatever, but that was the question, like, but we don’t have anybody else to put him with. I don’t remember who I spoke to that night or whatever. But I asked that question, like, there’s no cell mate in there with this guy. MR. MR. So, you asked someone? : I asked someone, but who it was, I don't remember who it was. MR. lieutenant? wR. J: But my question -. Would it have been a It would have been a lieutenant. But, like, schedule -- MR. MR. roster. Mm-hmm . -- schedule, to - on the MR. | | This is all -- MR. : And I'm talking about what time -- MR. :_(Indiscernible *00:55:12). MR. -- jt would be, because I mean, I think there's a shift change -- MR. Yeah. There's a shift change MR. : == back then, at 10:00 -- : =~ and then -- MR. : == 10:00 p.m. is when there’s that shift change. MR. MBB: The lieutenant shift changes. I don’t even know what time it was. (Indiscernible *00:55:21) MR. They show it was two hours prior to -- MR. :_(Indiscernible *00:55:23). MR. -- to what the schedule said back then. So, the Ops Lieutenant would have been relieved at 10:00 p.m., and a new Ops MR. EFTA00115870

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr 89 Lieutenant would have come back. So, if that rings ; bell. Yeah. I think it would have been et -- Because I know -- -- it would have -. -- ‘well, I know this. I know it wash t -- : Here. -- I know I didn't speak to Al] right. So, this is -- You know you didn't speak 7 this: would -- -- no, this is - -- this was the 10th. So, replaced MM. So, it would have been either - I' a — - it would have been ote —. Now, what -- 50, it had to -- -- what I'm showing you right _ is the iaily assignment roster for Saturday, August 10th, where it says that ee: the morning watch -- 91 . | et -- at 9:30. . : Put him. You took him out of Yeah, yeah, yeah. -- the showers. The showers. And then, brought him over to Mm-hmm . So, let's say 9:30 onwards, who would ou have (Indiscernible *00:56:29)? MR. : Well, no, no, no. Let's clarify that, though. Is it before the shower, when he was brought back to the SHU, or was it after the shower that you noticed that there wasn’t a -- MR. : After the shower. MR. : -- so, it was definitely after the shower, and after the phone call? MR. + Yeah. MR. : Okay. And that’s when you (Indiscernible *00:56:43) -. MR. MM: And that's - and it’s locking time, so now, at that time, once you put him back, there is no more movement. Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH RRR RR UW Wh RRR ona MNrMNNrNP wre ow nm wn Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe 90 “9 | hmm. -- officer who would have come ‘ “the night mail at 10:00 p.m., and relieved Over here, actually, it states ‘there’ S “two possible lieutenants, right? There’s -- _r was the acting -- . : -- who was that, until 10:00 -- Activities until 10:00 Mm-hmm . And then, there was JM. | That was there from -- Until midnight. -- yeah, until midnight. So, this conversation, when you went to Epstein’s cell, around what time do you think? You - based on that memo - you took him out around . : Put him in -- . : Put him in. WR. QM: Okay. So, you specifically recall -- MR. :_ Asking. MR. : == and that you asked someone? MR. | na someone. MR. : And do you recall that it was a lieutenant? WR. WM: Yeah. It had to be. I called the lieutenant’s office. WR. MM: You called. So, you know that you called the lieutenant’s office and . | Like, yeah, this -- . : == he doesn't have a cell . HB: -- there's no cell mate here. What do you want me to do? Or whatever. What actually happened after that, I don’t even remember because I never even gave it a second thought, after the fact. WR. MR: 11 right. So, after you called, though, do you remember how that person responded? wR. BB: Nah. Because T never even thought EFTA00115871

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR Wh RPRR SOW MRR Swe 93 about it again. I never thought about it again until now. Now, I'm trying to rack my brain to remember. MR. a man or a woman? vk. Do you remember if it was I believe it was a man. But I . el You believe it was a man. . : -+ I believe it was a man, but I don’t remember. I really don’t. MR. Okay. Because if it was aman, it_would have had to been : It would have been Right? : Yeah. It would have been And you know it wasn’t -- -- but IT also know, 100, that when - if I'm working internally, and then, like, I have to speak to a lieutenant, sometimes the lieutenant is busy. I may pick up the phone, and I'm not a lieutenant. MR. a. Okay. So, it doesn't 95 know, because I was so busy that day, that I'm just, like -- This would have been -- : I got enough. MR. : -+ this would have been at the very end of your shift? MR. : This would have been at the very end of my shift. MR. a. So, would it have been before you went up and checked on him, at that MR. : That would have been -- MR. -- next round? MR. : -- yeah, that would have been MR MR . | Or after? : : == that would have been before, and then, I checked on him again, before I left. So, like, when I noticed it, put him in, and I noticed that, made the phone call. Then, before I leave, I check on him again, and tell -- MR. : Okay. MR. :_-- hey, watch this guy. MR. : Okay. Did you - after rR SCweeH4OD wre RRR RR UW Wh RRR ona MMM NNYVre Se wWwMNre Owe rm wn RR BPOWwWo HO BwrPE RPRRR Un Wh RR SD RR \© Go 94 necessarily have to be a lieutenant in the lieutenant's office. MR. Not all the time, because things happen. Sometimes the lieutenant may call you, hey, I need you to go to this unit, do X, Y, and Z. Now they’re on the phone or whatever. Grab that phone for me real quick. It happens, but you know, you just relay the messages and what have you. MR. Okay. All right. MR. : And you said that could be the internal? MR. MM: It could be. Is it? I don't know. But I'm just saying, I know that I asked that question. Who I did ask that question to, I don’t know at this time. Okay. :_I don’t remember. . So, just walk us through what questions you asked and what response were you given. wR. WBBM: Yeah. I know I said, hey, this dude ain't got no cellee. I did say that. This dude ain't got no cellee or whatever. And after that, what actual response I got, I don't 96 you made the phone call, or when, first of all, the phone call, do you remember the response that you were given? When you said -- MR. :_ I don't know. MR. -- why doesn't this guy have a cellee? Did you -? MR. :_ I don’t remember. MR. Did they say that they would look into it, that they would check on it? WR. MBM: Probably, but I really don’t remember because I'm, like, after you get frustrated, all right, I got this to do, I got that to do, and then, you just -. . : Okay. Did you notify that he doesn't have a cell . : Well, they knew, but -- . : They knew he didn't have a cell mate? MR. QM: -- yeah, because they were up there -- MR. : They know? MR. :_-- yeah. MR. : And did they know that he EFTA00115872

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PR POoOwaoHnOnN ewnrHe ee el ee ed WN SweOHDN &whR mr os RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR & Wh RPRR SOW MmMMyerRR Re Oo wc was required to have a cell mate? MR. MB: Required. I don't know if they knew that he was required to have a cell mate. That, I don't know. MR. a: But everybody that comes off -. He was in suicide watch, previously. Correct? . : Right. : And every inmate that comes off of suicide watch -- MR. WBBM: Suicide watch. cell mate. MR. QM: So, based upon that, they knew he was required to have a cell mate. Correct? MR. BM: Yeah, based off of that, they would know. WR. MM: Okay. And was that a discussion that you had with anyone in there, that day, about, hey, where is his cell mate? MR. QR: I think we did ask that question amongst ourselves, too, like, this dude is supposed to have a cell mate. I think we did. vk. i: WR. MB: Yeah. So, that’s definitely the discussion that -. That would have happened after I took him out of the shower and put him in his cell, and realized there was no cell mate in there. That would have been the discussion afterwards. MR. And you do_remember talking with both and , saying he doesn't have a cell mate? MR. MM: Yup. Briefly, though. wasn’t, like, a long, drawn-out -. MR. : Sure. Do you remember what their responses were? MR. MM: 1 think it was just something, like, yeah, we're just telling each other what's going on. And continue business. MR. —. Was there anything talked about, like, where is he? MR. ma. Yeah, and that's when we found out, like, this guy must be released or whatever. So, there was a conversation about that. But who actually said, oh, this dude got released, or whatever, I don't remember. MR. : Okay. MR. : Everything was moving so fast. Should have a Is this before or after? 99 There Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn After -- Shower? -- yeah, after the shower. That this conversation between you, This was after the shower. -- took place. well, after the shower is when you called, but what you're saying is that, at - or are you saying that, after the shower, after the phone call -- Right. -- so, not after the shower, ‘but after the phone call in the shower, is that when you had the conversation with | MR. : Yeah. So, you think at that Because that’s when I, like, oh, shit, the dude ain't got no cell mate. MR. : And you would have -- Sorry. Excuse my language. -- and you would have conversed, saying, like, hey, he doesn't have a cell mate right now? And it was so long ago now. MR. a. Was there any conversation about, like, hey, we need to notify somebody to get him a cell mate? WR. WB: Probably was, but I know I made a phone call to someone, like, hey, what do you want me to do with this guy? He ain’t got no cellee. I know I made a phone call to someone. Who it was, at this point, I don't remember. MR. = And that -. MR. : Iwish they would have asked me that question earlier because I probably would have remembered then. WR. MM: Right. So, and that's, like, under oath, this is, like, if you were on the stand, literally in front of a judge -- MR. :_Mm-hmm. MR. : == you swear under oath that you made a phone call and notified someone? WR. BE: I notified someone. was, I don't know. WR. QM: Okay. So, if we checked the, like, the lines and the recordings, we'll Who it EFTA00115873

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PR POoOwo4OnNewnrpE RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR Wh RPRR SOW MMM Re Mme OS © oo mmr Wm & WwW be able to find -- wR. A: You should be able to find -- okay. And then, like, a penalty and perjury of law, like, you know -- MR. + Mm-hmm, MR. -- you could get - you can literally get charged if you're lying to us because we're federal agents and you're under oath. MR. + Mm-hmm. MR. : So, you're positive about that statement, that you called someone and notified them around 9:30 at night? MR. MM: I believe so. But if -. Because I spoke to people about this. I know I spoke to people about this. MR. : So, yeah. Just remember, any -. We're just going to shut up for a second, and let you think about who did you speak with and what conversations were had. What was stated? MR. + Mm-hmm, MR. : From the beginning of MR. : And then, is there -. Did we -? No, we didn't print out any of those other documents. So, he was gone from the MCC by 8:00, at least 8:30 a.m, MR. + Okay. MR. : So, you started at 2:00 p.m. What conversations can you remember that you had, regarding Reyes being gone from the institution? MR. I don’t. I remember finding out that Reyes was gone when I put Epstein back in his cell. That's when I remember that he was gone. MR. So, you -. MR. : I mean, that’s when I realized that he was gone because I'm, like, there's supposed to be two people in here MR. So, prior to that time, you didn't know, at all, that Reyes was gone? MR. MMM: Yeah, because I'm thinking about it to myself, as we walk -. MR. a. Sorry. He’s giving me documents to show you what happened to him. So, this is from the Marshal Service. I don’t Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH RRR RR UW Wh RR SD MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WME OC woo rm wn rR ee oe RR wr RPRRR SOUS MmMNmMNrMNrMrRR WwNrrH Sooo 102 that day. So, here, I'm going to show you a document, and this is - again - that lieutenant’s log, saying that, at 8:38 a.m., Reyes was pre-removed. And do you know that, when you’re pre-removed, that means you're released from the MCC. Correct? MR. :_ Mm-hmm. MR. Do you know that? MR. : That, well, yeah. It’s a -. So, could_I see that? MR. MR. : So. MR. And here is the 38 to go along with that, and the daily log. MR. + Okay. MR. Which shows that he was pre-removed at 8:38. MR. + Am. MR. : MR. Okay. MR. So, he left. He left the SHU, I'm assuming, before then. That's when he was keyed out. MR. | : By R&D. Correct? MR. believe that you would have received this email, but_I'm just showing you. MR. :_ Mm-hmm. : You can say if you MR. This is -. Did you ever see one Yeah. A.m. 104 remember it. of these? This is a prisoner’s schedule. MR. :_No. MR. The Marshal Service. the Reyes right here, it shows that he was gone, transferred within - per the judge - from the MCC to GO. Do you know what GEO is? WR. MM: I've heard that term before, but -. MR. : So, GEO is a -- MR. : Contract. MR. : == contract -- MR : Yeah. (Indiscernible *01:04:23). MR. a. -- which was going around here. MR : This would have been sent to all these people in custody, from R&D, as well as to all the lieutenants. wR. BB: Okay. So, EFTA00115874

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RR POW OHO BwrPE RRR Bm Wh ee od al oe od Rr SoOW OND mre r Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr RPRRPRPRPR Wwonnu > mmn we wre © mr wn 105 MR. QM: So, based upon this, they would have generated what's called, I think, a call out list. Do you know that? MR. MBM: 1 know what a call out list is. Yes. “R. WM: And then, we're of the understanding, based upon this information, next to Reyes name would have been WAB. Do you know what that means? MR. Yes, MR. : What does that mean? MR. : Like, I mean, offhand, I don't know what the actual acronym means, but it does mean that somebody is getting removed from the building, whether they're being released, sent to another institution, what have you. MR. GM: Al] right. So, that would have -. It means, “With All Belongings.” And it means that they take all their stuff because they're leaving. MR. pa MR. : Do you remember, that date, seeing that call out list? Would that be maintained in the SHU for the (Indiscernible *01:05:06)? 107 MR. + Yeah. MR. : -+ so, is that something that they keep in the SHU all day long? MR. : Yeah. Once you receive it. All for the morning shift, because usually, morning shift, depending on your internal, you might get that paperwork probably about 3:00 or something. You know, after you - as you're conducting counts. So, you conduct counts, and they come through and they hand you your roster for the day. The call out sheets, the separate rosters. MR. QM: And is that maintained, though -- R. Yes. <j So, that, like -- MR. | supposed to be. MR. : -- for instance -. Okay. So, if somebody goes to court, you know, on that list, it says this guy is court, it says this guy is WAB, it says, you know, so that you know where inmates are? MR. MM: Well, R&D will have the -. It will be a court roster for R&D. And it’s -- throughout the day? rR cow oH DU Sw MNP RRR RR Wm Wh RR SD MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn RR BPOWwWo HO BwrPE RPRRPR RR SOM WPM RR \© oo 106 MR. MB: I don’t remember seeing that call out list. I do not. WR. MM: «And in general, would the call out list be maintained in the SHU, though? MR. MBM: No. The call out list is basically before R&D leaves for the night. They print out the call out sheets for the next day, and over the course of the morning shift, internal, when they give out the daily rosters, will give out the call out sheets to every unit. MR. > Mm-hmm, MR. : For the following day. For the next morning. MR. a And then, is that cal] out list, though, like, for instance, the call out list of the SHU, was that maintained in the SHU at all, when they (Indiscernible *01:05:34)? MR. : Yeah. Once you have it in the SHU or whatever, usually, they'll have it on the desk with the rest of the paperwork. So, you know what you're looking at. If you've got to get somebody ready. oe another -. WR. GM: | Wouldn't that al] be listed on the call -- MR. . MR. : -+ list, though? It would. Yeah, it would. So, point being is if, like, if you're doing counts at 4:00 p.m., you have that call list to be able to say, oh, shit, this guy is at court, he’s not back yet. I need to find out where he is. Is that what happens? MR. J: Mm-hme. supposed to happen. Yes. MR. —, So, the questions that all of that was, do you remember seeing that call out list on August 9, 2019? MR. :_I don’t remember seeing it. : No? Yeah. That's what's But would it have been It should have been there, but I don’t remember seeing it. WR. Okay. EFTA00115875

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PRR RP RP RPP RPL COND SWNHEOWOHD SBWwrP Mmmenmyr mer OoOw mre r Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR & Wh 109 WR. MB: Everybody waves differently. So, I may put my paperwork on the clipboard. Somebody else may like to have three stacks of paper over here. WR. MM: Okay. But what you’re saying is that you did know, on August 9th, that Reyes was gone, and he was Epstein’s cell mate, and Epstein was without a cell mate. But you're saying you didn't know it until 9:30 p.m.? MR. + Yeah. MR. And at that point, you did call someone, in the lieutenant’s office? + Yeah. MR. : So, you definitely know it was the lieutenant’s office -- MR. : I know. MR. : -+ that you called? MR. : Icalled someone. So, like, let me rephrase and put it like this. That I noticed it. I had discussions with, you know, (Indiscernible *01:07:29), I said something about it to them, and I called someone. Who I spoke to, I do not remember. But I know I called someone. And it had to be somebody 111 reason why we're reading this to you is to, one) make_sure that you -- MR. :_ That it’s accurate. MR. -- it’s accurate, but also to refresh your memory. This is what you stated to these people, is that accurate, and - again - to fill in some of these blanks. Now, we have a memo that was drafted on August 12th, 2019. Let's see if it was - it says United States government, Federal Bureau of Prisons memo. And it says, past information from Special Housing Unit. It says, “On Friday, August 9th, 2019, at approximately 1:50 p.m., 1, 50S BE, passed on to oncoming staff menber, Officer ey present staff, SOS HM and Officer , that inmate Reyes was going WAB, and possibly may return, also that inmate Epstein will be needing a cell mate upon arrival from his attorney visit." Do you know if -? MR. MB: I don’t remember having that conversation with . MR. : Do you remember that that conversation had, or do you believe that he’s lying to us? If he swore under oath that he rR cow oH DU Sw MNP PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn RR BPOWwWo HO BwrPE RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn 110 higher than me. Because I can't make that decision. MR. Sure. And you think it was a man? You don’t think it was [? : I think it was - Or -? : -- I'm pretty sure it was a it was aman. But being that it was so long ago, I can't remember exactly what I said on_a brief phone call -- Sure. -- you know -- I understand. Yeah. I Yeah -- -- I'm just being honest with MR. GM: -- we're two years later. I got you. MR. : You know? : And so -. : And honestly, I thought this MR. MR. was over. So, I was, like -- MR. Right. Yeah. No. This is where -. That's why we're back, coming back to people to try to, like -. Part of the mean, we're -. ve. you 112 definitely passed that information onto you -- MR. : You got a -- MR. : -- and he’s got this WR. | MR. : That he also did. believe he’s lying about it? MR. : If he did, you might want to ask about that one because I do not recall him speaking to me about this one. MR. > Okay. MR : I don’t necessarily want to call anyone a liar, per se, but I don’t remember him speaking to me about this. maybe he spoke “ll and maybe I was standing there, and he thought I heard him. Okay. Do you So, MR. : MR : But that's my assumption, but I do not remember having this conversation with him at all. MR. : All right. So, if he’s saying, you know, was standing there, I relayed the information specifically to a. saying, hey, what you call, it’s WAB, Epstein is going to need a new cell mate. You do not EFTA00115876

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RR POW OHO BwrPE RRR Bm Wh ee od al oe od Rr SoOW OND mre r Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr RPRRPRPRPR Wwonnu > mmn we wre © recall that conversation? WR. MB: I don’t recall that conversation. MR. : Now, what is your opinion of the fact that, if an inmate is WAB, that means that he's not coming home -- MR. + Yeah. MR. -- right? What is your opinion of the fact that he said, possibly may not return? Why would he say - if someone is WAB - why would he say possibly may not return? MR. : I don't know. MR. Because your understanding was, if someone was WAB -- MR. :_If it was WAB -- MR. : -- you're not -. MR. : == he’s supposed to be gone. MR. : He was gone. Correct? MR. + But - okay, so, with that -- MR. : So, if -. MR. : -- if he says possibly may return or whatever, because this has happened, usually, I've seen it before with other inmates. You see somebody that says if they're WAB, they’re supposed to leave this date, their 115 Epstein is in the cell, because I'm assuming with how it happened, I'm assuming he goes WAB, Epstein goes to a legal visit, now your day is going on and everything like that. And it’s just escaped everybody. MR. > Mm-hmm. MR. : That's what I'm thinking happened. But yeah, he should have been replaced during that shift. MR. = Mm-hmm. MR. : But if you don’t have the numbers, that’s another question, that I'1] ask. If you don’t have the numbers in the SHU, if you have, like, an odd number, and you can't put anybody with him. What are you going to do? WR. GM: «Or are you aware that Epstein’s cell mates were all vetted at the highest level? MR. No. MR. So, in your opinion, if you knew that Epstein was required to have a cell mate, could have you just placed a cell mate with him? wR. PE: No. I don't have that rR SCweeH4OD wre PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr ee wWwMNre OS wo rm wn RR BPOWwWo HO BwrPE RPRRPR RR SOD UT Ww hb MMMM NRRR & WwMe CO woo rm wn 114 stuff is packed up or whatever, and then, something happens, and then, they can't go -. They can't leave. Like, but that’s usually if they're going to another institution or something. Now, if this dude actually got released or whatever, I don’t see why - any reason. Unless the judge put a hold on him. MR. Well, he didn't get released. Like I showed you. He got transferred. WR. MMM: Yeah. So, yeah. So, I don't see, you know, like, unless the judge miraculously put a hold on you or something like that, I don't know why he said possibly. MR. So, I guess my question on that would be, then, if he’s at least by 8:38 a.m., WAB, gone from the SHU, should someone have -- MR. : MR. beforehand? WR. WBBM: Yes. Replaced him and, yeah, somebody should have -. Like, because during the day shift or whatever, this dude leaves, he goes to WAB or whatever, and you know that it’s 116 Because if I was to -- So, who has the Yes. -- replaced him authority to do that. MR. authority? MR. -- if I was to make that decision, and something happened to him, now I'm screwed. WR. MM: «So, who should have placed him with a cell mate? That's place Epstein with a new cell mate. WR. BB: It would have been one of us to probably put the inmate in that cell. But that determination would either come from the operations lieutenant, the SHU lieutenant, or the captain. MR. MR. MR. MR. But that’s where the decision would come from. They'll probably just tell me, like, hey, execute. MR. a: So, in your opinion, based upon the information that we have, with him going WAB, should the activities, ops, or a captain have been notified, and those people should have ensured that Epstein was -? Or anybody above that. EFTA00115877

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PR POoOwaoHnOnN ewnrHe RRR Bm Wh ee od al oe od Mmrrowonnuw mre r Wn & Ww PR POwWo4ON ewnrP RR wr RPRRR SOW > MMM Re mr © woo mmr Wm & WwW 117 MR. MM: Yes. Because if - like, all right, after all the stuff that we've seen here - if Iwas to, like, let’s just say I was to put somebody in that cell, and something happened. Now I made the wrong decision, and then, the next question is going to be, well, why didn't you ask questions? MR. + Mm-hmm. MR. : So, I would not put somebody in there without somebody giving me the green light to do so. MR. Now, if - was J the OIC back then? MR. MR. MR. MR. : == $0, is the OIC. If him, the activities lieutenant, and the ops lieutenant, all for that day shift are saying, well, we didn't know if Reyes was going to come back or not, so we thought it was premature to place a new cell mate in there with him. Is that a legit excuse, do you think, or a reason, if the person is listed with WAB next to their name? I think so. All right. So -- For the day shift. 119 because, once you got there, you were just running? MR. MM: I was running, hopping and popping the whole time. MR. Okay. MR. : Pretty much. I'm sweating. Everything. MR. : Okay. . : But we were all tired that . : Okay. MR. : I know you didn't know until 9:30 p.m. When do you think would have been the first time you should have caught up to the fact that_Reyes was not there? MR. I was doing rounds, because in my mind, because I'm thinking about it, like, like how Epstein is the priority. So, if I'm working out ranges, and I'm talking to inmates here and there, and I had two other inmates on that tier where Epstein was, that wanted to play the suicide game, you know, as I walked through there, or whatever, I know this is Epstein's cell. I know Epstein is not here. Even when you look in there, you just keep = SCweeH4OD wre MMR RRP RRP RP RRR Pow oN Sew MP mM wr mre we Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe RRR wre RPRRR SOW Myre RO woo Mmmenmn WM & WM 118 MR. FB: Depending on how they looking at it, like, because - like I said before - if he’s WAB and, like, maybe the bus got cancelled or whatever, and then, somebody would have to come back. If you're thinking about it that way, then yes. But if he was gone at 8:00 something in the morning, then he ain’t never coming back. WR. QR: At 2:00 p.m., he’s still not back, wouldn't they know by then if that That's what I -- . -- truly WAB? . :__-- that’s what I would think. : Okay. But you do not m specifically saying that to you? MR. + Hmm=me MR. _ So, you believe, the first time that you - you did know, on August 9th - but you believe the first time that you knew was at 9:30 p.m. WR. WE: That's the first time I think I knew, because it was too much running around. I don't not remember this conversation at all. MR. Okay. And that’s 120 going. And then, you know, you just keep going or whatever. So, like, it should have dawned on me then, but I'm thinking about this guy over here, that may have, you know, that had the noose around him, and he wants to play that game. And then, you got another inmate on another tier, doing some other crazy nonsense. There was just a lot of moving pieces that day. So, even in my movement around or whatever, like, it missed - it escaped it - it missed me. MR. Yeah. And that was what I was going to go to, after that, is the fact that, would this have been the only - this mandatory rounds must be conducted every 30 minutes on Epstein, as per God - would that have been the only orange card that was up there? Saying to make sure that Epstein is your priority in the SHU right now? WR. MMM: It shouldn't have been. Like, I don’t remember if there was anything on his door, or anything like that, or whatever. But I remember that. That, you know, that was per God, obviously, that’s a joke. MR. = Yeah, yeah, yeah. MR. : But I do remember, it was EFTA00115878

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PR POoOwaoHnOnN ewnrHe ee el ee ed WN SweOHDN &whR mr os RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR & Wh RPRR SOW MMM Re Mme OS © oo mmr Wm & WwW 121 something else on a wall, at some point in time, about, like, yeah, make sure you watch this guy. So, I don’t remember if it was a memo or something, but it was something else. But I definitely remember that one. If I'm not mistaken, there was more than one copy of that thing. WR. QM: Okay. So, but what I'm asking, was there anybody, any other inmate names, such as this, or was inmate your priority when you were in the SHU? MR. MM: No. No. I don’t remember any of the inmates’ name. I just remember that. WR. MB: So, this is the one guy that’s up on the desk, on the officer's station, saying, making sure you're checking on him -- Mm- ham. -- on Epstein. So, that was shai I was going to get at. If these rounds were actually conducted on L-tier, through that whole time, that that cell is emty - -- Mm- hoes -- how did people not 123 As far as -- MR. MBM: Okay. So, now I got to write a memo, right? MR. a. -- so, well, that’s what - you don’t have to write a memo, we're talking to you. So, as far as this goes, the question would be: how are anybody that’s working - so, it’s you -- ~ did ME start I think QM comes in at So, it's at -. Okay. So already here. -- you four -- on (Indiscernible -- it said four. It's : How was it not noticed - if these rounds on this round sheet were conducted - how was it not noticed, even prior Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn 122 notice Epstein’s cell mate is gone? WR. MM: Right. And now, this right here -- WR. GM: «And I'm not talking about just your watch. So, night watch -- MR. Yeah. MR. : -- as well as day watch. MR. : Yeah. So, day watch, oh, no, this is morning watch. So, okay. MR. — Yeah. This is day watch. MR. : Yeah. So, day watch. Like, obviously, through here, they got rid of him. And, like, that, there should have been something done there. WR. QM: «Yeah. I mean, he’s claiming, he’s the guy who was apparently, you know, — is apparently signing this, I believe, for all these. He’s claiming, yeah, I passed on the information, he’s gone, he’s going to need a new cell mate, if he, in fact, doesn't come back. Mm-hmm So, all right, he’s swearing under oath that, and he wrote a memo, as well. And he swore a couple times to that. 124 to 9:30, if you're saying you noticed at 9:30, that that cell was empty? If this guy is your number one priority. MR. : Because I was looking for Epstein. Yeah, I was just, like, my mind, and on that specific cell, it was him. MR. : Right. MR. : And I knew he was at a legal visit. WR. WM: Yeah, yeah. So, and I get it, that you said you did a round on Epstein when he came back. But if rounds are being conducted in entire SHU -- MR. :_Mm-hmm. MR. : == wouldn't people notice, hey, it’s claiming that one, two, three, four, you know, however many there are there, throughout the day, you're going down everything, how did someone not notice that cell was empty? Hmm. And you're absolutely So, the point being is, does that mean that these rounds weren't conducted? EFTA00115879

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RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RPRRPRRPR SD ew PM MMM Re Mme OS © oo nm w 125 MR. MBM: I'm not going to say that because I know those people went down, down range, you know, but what I'm going to say is, like, if that dude was gone, and you know, the number one priority is Epstein, and you're just doing rounds because you know that you're going to have to count anyway. MR. Yeah, yeah. MR. : You know what I'm saying? So, when you go through on the count, that’s when you will catch that. So, yeah. In this case, : Exactly. MR. + == count wasn’t conducted? MR. | : So, the 4:00 p.m. count MR. wasn’t conducted. And then -- MR. + Yeah. MR. -- you have reason to believe the 10:00 p.m. count wasn't conducted, either. Nor the 12:00 p.m. Nor the 3:00 a.m. And not the 5:00 a.m. So, none of those counts were conducted. notified someone? MR. : MR. told both Yes. And you do believe you and ? MR. Yeah. Yes. MR. : Yes. And are you confident of both those things? Can you state under penalty and perjury of law, I told = and MM, he did not have a cell mate? MR. + Yes, MR. What about, are you confident under penalty and perjury of law, I called the lieutenant’s office and notified them that Epstein did not have a cell mate? MR. I'm confident that I called, but who was on the other end of that phone -- MR. Right. MR. :_-- is my issue. MR. Right. And what I'm saying is, are you confident you called the lieutenant's office, though? MR. MBB: No, I can't say I'm confident I called the lieutenant, but I want to say yes, because that’s normally what I would do. MR. Right. So, who - if you Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn 126 MR. : I wasn’t here for those. MR. : That's a - yeah, I know, you left before 10:00 p.m. - so, that’s when you would believe it would have been caught, is during the counts, not the rounds? MR. I believe it would have been caught more so during the counts, and with the rounds, you can catch it, but with a million things going on, it’s a little bit harder. I gotcha. You know, [a -- MR. : So, the counts, the more official thing, where there’s two inmates where you're actually counting inmates. So, the fact that the 4:00 p.m. count wasn't conducted, that's why you believe you didn't actually catch it until 9:30? + Yeah. : Okay. : That's why I believe I didn't WR. MM: AN] right. But you did catch it at_9:30 -- MR. | ae I did catch it. MR. : == and you do believe you 128 didn't call the lieutenant’s office - who would it be that_you would have called? MR. It might have been a unit manager, or somebody. If anybody was still in the building at the time. But I called somebody. I spoke to someone, higher than me, that could make a decision about this situation. WR. GM: Al] right. So, that was going to be my next question. Are you sure, not only did you call, but you actually spoke with someone? MR. MM: Yes. I spoke with someone. Who it was, at this point, I don't remember. MR. : Okay. So, someone. You did make that notification, and you're saying someone else (Indiscernible *01:20:44). MR. : I made that notification, yes. MR. : And you did - and you're positive you informed and HP A Yeah. Like, it was, like, yeah. MR. Because we were all talking. This dude is (Indiscernible *01:20:54). Like, it was a conversation. A brief conversation, but a conversation nonetheless. EFTA00115880

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RR POW OHO BwrPE RRR Bm Wh ee od al oe od Rr SoOW OND mre r Wn & Ww PR POwWo4ON ewnrP RR wr RPRRR SOW > MMM Re mr © woo mmr Wm & WwW 129 MR. QM: And you had the three of you had it? WR. MMMM: Yeah. Like, it was, like, you know, I said something, he said something, she said something. And then, it’s back to business because it doesn't stop just because - You've got to kind of figure things out, as you move. _So -. WR. GM: «Okay. what do you got on that? MR. MM: when we initially asked you the question about Epstein and his cell mate, you said that Epstein must have a cell mate. Right? To that effect. You knew that Epstein needed a cell mate. MR. QB: Hmm, and I knew, and when I said that, I mean, I knew that he had one before. I knew he had one before. Because that's why I was, like, oh, like, where did this guy go? MR. Other than the fact that he came off psych observation, was there any other reason why you felt that Epstein needed a cell mate? MR. WE: Personally? 131 MR. MB: Only from what I heard. I don't know. MR. Have you heard that, if Tartaglione attacked Epstein, did he try to kill him, or did Epstein try to hang himself? WR. MB: I heard that Epstein tried to hang himself and that, you know, he blamed Tartaglione. MR. QM: Okay. Now, you said from that point onwards, instructions started coming down. From who? MR. MBM: The instructions started coming down from the SHU lieutenant. I know Lieutenant would come in. He would -. MR. So, who is the SHU lieutenant? MR. + Now? MR. No, no. At that point. MR. : At that_point in time, I think it was still Lieutenant . . Was it ? : Was it Lieutenant I? was in there, too. Mm- I think J was In fact, I can was. SHU Lieutenant at that time. rR SCweeH4OD wre RRR RR Wm Wh RR SD MmMNmNRRR mr Oo wo mrmer uw & w Re SCweHsonuw wre RPRRRR Un Wh RR SD MMMM NRRR & WwMe CO woo rm wn 130 MR. MM: Did anyone instruct you? Any instructions come down? MR. The instructions started coming down about him needing a cell mate after his first so-called suicide attempt or whatever, and that’s when they started picking, and that’s when, you know, like, how - well, what's the other guy's name, Tartaglione? And that's why we, as officers, can't determine who we're going to put in there with this guy. You know, like, because if I -. Like, let's say I ought to put somebody else in there with him or whatever, and because Epstein is saying that Tartaglione attacked him, and this, and that, and the third. That would fall on me. You know, you want a supervisor to make that determination. MR. So, let’s talk about -- MR. So -. MR. -- that. Were you there for that incident, when that happened, the first attempt of suicide? MR. I wasn’t there for that, no. MR. Do you know what happened between Epstein and Tartaglione? find out right now. . : He was not working on -? . : He was not working that night, . No. He was off that day? MR. : Mm-hmm. Yeah. Let's see. So WR. MM: So, it came from Lieutenant You think it came from Lieutenant J, also? wR. a: didn't speak to Yeah. Because I, like, I recently during that timeframe, I don't believe. I think, like, because I think it was, like, I know one time specifically, Lieutenant | was, like, by - he specifically said - boss’s do, not that night, though. But, you know, he specifically, like, that’s one of the first people that was, like, was adamant about keep an eye on this guy. This is why we put him in this cell. MR. QB: Well, what about the cell mate requirement? MR. The cell mate requirement thing. That was something that it was conversations amongst other SHU crew members EFTA00115881

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PR POoOwo4OnNewnrpE RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mre r Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR & Wh RPRR SOW 133 from day, evening, morning shift, or whatever. Like -- MR. Yeah. MR. -- we knew we couldn't just make a decision. So, that was a thing, like, everybody was, like, yo, call the lieutenants, like, make_-- Mn-hmm -- like, have them tell you who to put_in there with this person. MR. When was this conversation? MR. This is over the course of time. You know, a couple days. Because we, like, people get - people leave this institution, and people come back in. So, usually, you never really know. So, this is, like, you know, days leading, you know, days leading up to this or whatever. We just, like, idle conversations, that, amongst staff, that we have had. MR. WM: That Epstein needed a cellmate at all times. MR. MMM: Yeah. And then, like, you know, like, because I believe, at one point in time, he had a cell mate, somebody left, and 135 MR. MMM: But he was no longer in the SHU, at that point? MR. But yeah, after I relieved him, I think he -. I don't know if he went home, or if he went somewhere else. I don't know. . | Does that sound right? MR. : Yeah. So, what you want to say is, this -- Last page. -- so, this -- Last page. No, no. Not this one. Not that one. It’s the other one. I need the other Yeah. The email. So, this email from , who was the ops lieutenant The email. MR. a at the time, was sent at 6:07 p.m., where he wrote this - you wrote that, the shot, where everyone would call it the -- MR. At the time. MR. So, look at the date on top. -- $0, it appears that Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn 134 then, they -. We had to find a cell mate for him real quick. But like I said, like, this is - it's bits and pieces here. MR. RM: Which SHU staff do you recall having that conversation with? MR. Pfft. Usually, those are the little quick conversations you have during shift change. So, this is, like, hi, bye, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But you don’t recall if it Yeah. I don’t recall it. I have a question. That memo. So, you said you've relived Do you recall relieving (MN at what time? WR. QM: «(indiscernible *01:24:59). MR. MR. MR. Hmm. 2:00. Yeah. At 2:00? Yeah. 2:00. Maybe a little - MR. QM: Do you recall if he left the institution? MR. I don't know. 136 BE was still in the institution at 6:00 p.m. We're trying to figure out why. What would he have been doing in there? Would he -? MR. :_ I don't know. MR. No? And he’s not listed on that daily roster. Correct? It's signed from -. WR. WM: That's the 10th. Look at the 9th. WR. WM: After he left. Can you find his name on there? MR. It’s -. MR. What’s the schedule show him leaving at? WR. MMM: 2:00. We saw him leaving at 2:00 because I'm his relief. MR. And you know he was not in the SHU. Correct? Right. Do you guys have access to ) . : Let him look first. . : Okay. . : I don't know. And what was your question again? EFTA00115882

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PR POoOwo4OnNewnrpE RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR Wh RPRR SOW MMM Re Mme OS © oo mmr Wm & WwW 137 MR. BM: Do you have access to BOP email outside of work? MR. : No. MR. : The only way to send an email is from where? “R. a: address. MR. QM: No, no. From your BOP emai] to another BOP. Like, let's say he was sending an email to BB, right? Could he have done it from outside the institution? Or does he have to be inside the MCC to get that? MR. : Like, say it one more time. MR. : So, in order for him to send this emai] -- WR. MM: Yes, in order for QM to send an email to -- MR. : This email. MR. toss . MR. : This email. MR. + Mm-hmm. MR. : In order for him to send this can he do it outside of the MCC, or does I could send an email to a BOP email, he have to be inside the MCC to send it? MR. WE: 0h, no. You can send an email 139 Yes. Anything we showed you. Okay. Just down there. What is this one? This is the one -. Okay. Schedule report. That's the one that shows that inmate Reyes, he had left. MR. : Gotcha. MR. : And you'll notice, he was transferred within, and he went from MCC -- MR. : To GEO. MR. : == to GEO. MR. : Thank you, sir. MR. : And we probably covered this, but just want to ask one more time. If that 4:00 p.m. count was done, would it have been caught that Reyes was not in the institution, and Epstein needed a cell mate? MR. MM: There would have -. It would have been caught that, you know, that he wasn’t in the institution, but, like, when you count, even though you're looking at living, breathing bodies, you know, sometimes you'll be, like, I don't remember everybody's name. Sometimes I'm Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WME OC woo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRR Un Wh RR SD MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn 138 to a BOP email, outside of the MCC. WR. MM: «But what he’s saying is, would he have access to his BOP email outside of the MCC? Would he have been able to send it . : Oh, would -- . : == yeah. . -- would (MM has access to -. Oh. Not to my knowledge. I don’t know how to do that. WR. PM: Okay. already know that. MR. QR: And you didn't see him all day? After he had left. MR. + Hmm=me. MR. : And you relieved him. didn't see him in the SHU? MR. : No. MR. : He never came back? MR. : Hmm=me MR. : Okay. So, we have all these documents that we showed you. Just initial them, please. WR. QR: Okay. one, too, or no? Yeah, no. And we You Hmm. And this. This 140 talking to inmates and I'm, like, hey, you. So, I probably wouldn’t even notice it was Reyes. You know? But would you -- But if you - -- you would have noticed that there was no one in the cell, is what Right. we're saying. MR. : Now, we asked you about, have you ever pre-filled -- MR. > Mm-hmm. MR. : -- round sheets -- MR. + Mm-hmm. MR. : == or count sheets. yes to the count sheets. Right? MR. + Mm-hmm. MR. : Do you recall ever pre- filling round sheets at all? MR. MM: =I don’t recall pre-filling round sheets. I remember being taught about it, at one point in time. MR. - Taught about it by who? MR. That was when I was a daisy fresh rookie. You said EFTA00115883

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PR POoOwaoHnOnN ewnrHe ee el ee ed WN SweOHDN &whR mr os RR POW oOHN OM BwrP 21 22 ME used to work up there. 23 24 25 MR. Okay. MR. So, I knew that that was something that was done. The pre-filling? ‘y want to say it vas but I was a rookie back then. I was -- By who? -- (Indiscernible *01:30:15), , but that was -. I was a rookie iho is MP He don’t work here no more. Do you recall his first name? No. : Okay. Do you recall hearing or seeing anybody else pre-fill round sheets or count sheets? wR. J: MR. MR. Yeah. You hear about it, but Like, who? You know what I'm saying, like, I've heard about it from multiple people. Names and dates of when they did it. Like, I 143 mentioned the SHU crew. So, the names. What are the names? MR. MB: From all these -. From back then or whatever, it was a whole slew of people. MR. MBB: Which is fine. Any names you recall. Because you said you learned it from people, right? MR. Yeah. And so - So, like, ‘as me learning, like well, now, I kn started, BEBE vas up there. (Phonetic Sp. *01:31:49). was : Oh. How do you spell that? Okay. MR. : : Who else used to work up MR. MR. there? Some dude that used to work here, named It's a bunch of He doesn't work here no more. people. MR. MR. So, you've got -- Track of all these names. Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH RRR RR Wm Wh RR SD MmMNmNRRR mr Owe 23 24 25 rR ee oe RPRRPR RR SOM WPM RR \© oo 142 don't know. WR. WB: «I don’t need - who have you heard about? - I don’t need dates or anything, but who have you heard about pre-filling the rounds and counts sheets? MR. You know, some of the old school staff, like, you know, like, when, like, but these people don’t even work here anymore. You know, like, I mean, I don't know these people. They don’t work here anymore. They, you know, like, they had a whole SHU crew. Like, there was a whole system of things that - they had it on lock. That was just how it worked. MR. So, you said SHU -- MR. So, I remember, as a rookie, I would go in there. And then, you know, they teach you things or whatever, and then, you know, like, I guess they’ve been working so long, you know, they know the short cuts that they do. So, I remember learning about it then or whatever. And then, I even got taught at one point, or whatever. I'm, like, okay. But I wasn't working up there then. MR. So, the names. 1 -_ me: ee MR. Yeah. MR. Have you seen them pre-fill - have you heard or seen them - pre-fill round sheets or_count sheets? WR. MM: I've heard of it. But, you know, like, I haven't seen them do it, but I’ve heard of it or whatever. And I do remember who it was, though. I remember, at one point in time, somebody showed me, like, oh, yeah, this is how you -. Teaching me how to do the round sheets. And taught me that way. MR. What did they teach you exactly? WR. QR: Like, I start here. So, the time is 4:05. And you start at 4:05, finish at 4:06. The next one, you do at 4:07, 4:08. WR. MMM: So, that’s why you, when you saw that -. wR. PE: recognized it. MR. MR. MR. I know you That's when I saw that, and I So, you think that’s -- That's -. -- that's how it was taught EFTA00115884

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RR POW OHO BwrPE RRR Bm Wh ee od al oe od Rr SoOW OND mre r Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr RPRRPRPRPR Wwonnu > mmn we wre © for -- Mm-hme . . -- how many round sheets have you done? (Indiscernible *01:32:58) that it was pre-filled? Yeah. MR. : : I don’t recall doing any pre- MR. MR. filled round sheets on my career. Because it was a Situation -. Well, that’s another story, so I'm not_even going to get into that. : Okay. Yeah, but -. You've never, on the round Pre-filled? Hmm-mm . How many count sheets have . HBB: Now, the count sheets, on the other hand, if, you know, you're in a hurry, you fill it out -- MR. Mm-hmnm . MR. -- you execute it. And then, you put it out. Because you're just, like, you don't want to waste time just doing paperwork. 147 WR. MM: No. But they were all -. I do recall an incident where, I guess there was a bad count. No. There was two good counts. It was two good counts, and then, they figured out it was a bad count the next shift or whatever. So, basically, what people were doing, they would look in on the computer to see what the number was, fill out the paper, and send it down. I remember that happening a while back. MR. for the number? MR. MR. MR. They looked on the computer Yeah. How do you look -- Like -- MR. -- on the computer? MR. -- they, I guess, like, you know, somebody must have had work control, and had E1 access, and just looked up the number -- MR. Mn-hmm MR. -- of what control would have on the E1, then filled it out, and then said, here you go. And turned it in. And that went on for some time or whatever. So -. MR. When was this? rR cow oH DU Sw MNP PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn RR BPOWwWo HO BwrPE RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn 146 But obviously, I learned a valuable lesson from that one. WR. WE: So, I know on that one, that a count wasn’t actually done. Have there been any other situations -- MR. : No. MR. -- where the counts haven't been done? MR. No. MR. Do you know of any employees that haven't been doing rounds or counts? MR. MB: In SHU or just in the prison in general? MR. MR. MR. concentrated -- MR. MR. general. MR. MR: Nah, and - pfft - and especially after all of this. MR. No. Let’s talk about - starting at that time, too - were you aware of employees not doing rounds and counts? 148 MR. QR: I don’t even remember when it is. But I remember that was -. I remember that was a thing because it was, like, some people were supposed to get in trouble for that. WR. HE: $= Do you recall if J, HMMM, or any of the SHU staff had access to the E1? Even yourself. Did you guys have access to the E1 document? WR. MBM: No. I didn't have access to the El at_that time. No. What about the rest of the Just in general. Yeah. The SHU is what we Yeah. -- but if you know in I don't think so. How would they have the MR. i He already said. MR. : No, he did, but I'm going to ask about the 10:00 p.m. and the midnight. How would they know to go off the -? I know you went off the master sheet, right? MR. Mm-hme . MR. What sheet -? What number -? Where would they have got the number two? Not for a 10:00 p.m. and a midnight. MR. count? EFTA00115885

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR Wh RPRR SOW MMM Re Mme OS © oo mmr Wm & WwW MR. : With that -- (Indiscernible *01:35:18). -- yeah, what would have happened with that is, is you just, like, when, like, I'm leaving at 10:00. So, I'm leaving at 10:00. And they were there for the 4:00 count. So, they oma know numbers. MR. From the 4:00? MR. They already know the numbers. MR. : So, they're going based upon the 4:00 count (Indiscernible *01:35:37) - Right. MR. : -- and if anybody left, they would just subtract them from that number MR. : Right. MR. : -+ that you used? MR. MR. : Because they know that the 4:00 _count -- Yeah. So, like -- -- (Indiscernible *01:35: 44), wR. MBM: -- put, like, this -. AN] 151 -- as their base count, and at the 10:00 p.m., anything that changed, because was -- MR. + Mm-hmm. MR. : == you know, constant. She was there the whole time. MR. 1 Yes, MR. : Okay. MR. : Have you ever slept on the job while you was -- MR. : Not intentionally. MR. : == while you're sitting on the computer. MR. WBBM: Like, you know, you sitting on the computer, you might. MR. : Dose off. MR. : A box of sandman. Especially if you're doing 16 hours on the regular basis MR. : Did you sleep on August 9th - No. -- when you were working? No. Have you heard of a SHU - let's just talk about SHU employees whenever Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WME OC woo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRR Un Wh RR SD MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr &—wWwrNre © © oo rm wn 150 right. So, let's just say for the sake of argument, if 9:30, right? It’s 9:30, lock the institution down, you count, you take a count at 10:00. You count at 10:00, and at this point in time, you know, 12:00, you're off or whatever. So, midnight comes around, your relief comes in, or whatever the case. But in this particular case, the only person that went home was Because = was still here. So, if was coming in, or whatever, yo, was here the whole time. She knows all the numbers. Right. He ain’t got to do nothing. So, she know that the 4:00 count cleared, the number that you called in was good at the time -- MR. :_ Mm-hmm. MR. : -- or at least they said it was good. wR. J: in, and this -. WR. QM: So, they could just use that number -- WR. BE: | Mm-hme. And nobody else left, or came 152 you were working - have you heard about SHU employees sleeping on the job? WR. MBM: Rumors, but I never observed it. WR. MM: Okay. When you were those three of you_quys in there, did you observe sleeping -- MR. : No. MR. : -+ during the shift on August WR. MM: No. I don't know how they would because we was running the whole time. WR. QM: «There's going to be a lot of unnecessary stuff in there, but if you want to ask those. WR. MM: Okay. Well, how do you answer some of these questions, you said last time you interacted with Epstein, something triggered in your mind, right? And so, that’s why you told 9th? tos to keep an eye on him. Okay. Do you know if there was any threats made to Epstein? MR. : No. EFTA00115886

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PR POoOwaoHnOnN ewnrHe RRR Bm Wh ee od al oe od Mmrrowonnuw mre r Wn & Ww PR POwWo4ON ewnrP RR wr RPRRR SOW > MMM Re mr © woo mmr Wm & WwW 153 MR. QM: Did you know why Epstein was in prison? MR. MR. feelings : Well, yeah. I watch the news. Okay. Did you have any MR. regarding why he was in prison? : No. MR. : Did Epstein have -. Go ahead. You were going to say something. WR. BB: Like, feelings, what you did is what you did. My personal feelings don't matter. It’s a job. You know what I'm saying? So, like, I do my best for something like that. That's why I don't personally like to read people's paperwork. Because once you know, you can't un-know it. MR. Mm-hmm. MR. : So, but nah, I didn't have any feelings towards him or whatever. I'm, like, okay, he needs to go here, he needs to go -. All right. There you go. There you go. MR. QR: what is your understanding of what happened to Epstein on August 9th and 10th of 2019? MR. MB: My understanding of it was that -- MR. MB: I would assume so. there. I didn't see anything, but -. MR. Did you have any involvement with Epstein’s death? MR. No. MR. What would have prevented Epstein’s death? What actions could have been taken to prevent his death? MR. I mean, personally, I feel that if a person wants to take their own life, they're going to do it. You know? So, I do not know. MR. QM: Do you think them actually, if the C.0.s actually did the rounds and the counts, it could have helped? MR. MM: I think it could have been a deterrent, but the truth of the matter is, if somebody is actually attempting to do that, they're going to do it. That's not going to stop. And the only reason I say that is because of my mother’s (Indiscernible *01:40:12). If you want to do it, you're going to do it. MR. What about in a cell? In a cell, though, if he actually had a cell mate 155 I wasn't = SCweeH4OD wre MMR RRP RRP RP RRR Pow oN Sew MP mM wr mre we Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe RRR wre RPRRR SOW Myre RO woo Mmmenmn WM & WM 154 MR. QM: What is your understanding of what happened to him? MR. -- that he hung himself. He hung himself in the cell. MR. QB: What is your - you said he hung himself? MR. of what happened. MR. : Do you have any information with regard to any suspicious activity that occurred on August 9th and 10th, 2019, leading up to the discovery of Epstein in his cell? MR. : No. MR. What do you know about someone else taking Epstein’s life? MR. Nothing. MR. What do you know about other’s assisting in taking Epstein's life? MR. Nothing. MR. Did Epstein take his own life? WR. WB: I wasn’t there, but I would assume so. WR. MEM: Did Epstein act alone in taking his own life? Yeah. That's my understanding 156 in there. Do you think that that would have potentially helped to actually somebody else in there? MR. MM: Yes and no. I think it might have deterred him for a bit, but, you know? He would have found a MR. [B: He would have found a way. If that's really what you wanted to do, you would have found a way. But that’s an opinion. MR. ee At least in this specific circumstance, you think that, between the counts and the rounds, and then getting an actual cell mate in there for him, because he was required to have a cell mate, do you think that those things would have at least helped? MR. I think it would have helped. Yes. WR. MB: what is some of the systematic problems inside the MCC - and specifically, the SHU - that allowed for Epstein to die? MR. A lack of staff. Overworked staff. Not getting clear instructions on what to do in certain instances; i.e., you know, he EFTA00115887

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PR POoOwaoHnOnN ewnrHe RRR Bm Wh RPRRR CoN aU Mmmenmyr mer OoOw mre r Wn & Ww PR POwWo4ON ewnrP RR wr RPRRR SOW > MMM Re mr © woo mmr Wm & WwW 157 doesn't have a cell mate, but there was no directive of who to put in there. Like I said, if you have an odd number, you don’t have a body to put there. MR. > Hmm, MR. : You can't just take an inmate from another house that didn't do anything, just because you trust him, and put him in there. WR. BBB: So, you're saying there should have been a backup inmate? MR. QM: There should have been a backup plan for that. You know, and it was -. To me, it was decisions made, on the part of the institution, that were wrong. And because they made these decisions, now those other two officers have to pay for it. You know, Epstein, as high-profile as he is, should not have been in SHU. He should have been in Ten South. MR. - Why do you say that? MR. : That's not a decision that we get to make. Because he’s too high a profile. Look, after that thing hit the news, the world knew who he was. The world knew who E] Chapo 159 attorney visits had anything to do with the fact that_he wasn't placed in Ten South? MR. MMM: I definitely think that's a possibility. You hear lawyer, and they jump, too. MR. : Right. MR. : Perfect example is - and this is more so the systemic problems that are here - if an inmate says, I want to talk to my family, I want to -. For whatever reason, you know, and they get a call from the judge, the lawyer, anything of the sort. They're going to, oh, you’ve got to give this inmate a phone call, even though this inmate just had his required phone call, and it’s not time for that phone call again. As soon as you hear lawyer or judge or whatever, they're going to tell you to do that. MR. : Sure. MR. : Even though he’s supposed to wait his time. You know, so, but that's how -. I hope that_answers your question. MR. : Yeah. MR. : Fair enough. That's enough. MR. : Just back to the call = SCweeH4OD wre MMR RRP RRP RP RRR Pow oN Sew MP mM wr mre we Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe RRR wre RPRRR SOW Myre RO woo Mmmenmn WM & WM 158 was. £1 Chapo never touched a unit. He went straight to Ten South. Why would you put somebody that high-profile, you know, that close to regular, every day inmates. MR. a. Now, if people are in Ten South, can they have attorney visits? MR. :_ Yes, MR. : So, they can still do that attorney visit all day long -- MR. : But they don’t -- : -- if - -- they could. But in Ten South, the attorney goes up to Ten South. There is a room where it’s a barrier between - they can talk to each other, but it's a glass and stuff in there, anything that needs to get handed, you know, search it, and then, you pass it over. You could obviously can't read anybody's legal work, but you make sure that there’s no contraband in there, when it has -. And there’s another room in there with a slot that they can, that the lawyer could do that, but the lawyer has to show it to you first, and then hand it to the inmate. MR. WE: Do you think that the 160 that you said that you made some time between 9:30 and 10:00. Would it have potentially been to the control center? WR. MMMM: I guess it's possible. It was definitely possible. Because if anything or whatever, like, because that is one of the places that we call, control, the lieutenant’s office, the unit team, and, you know, sometimes you might make a phone call, like, oh, no, this person ain't here, try this person, try control center. So, it’s definitely possible. MR. : So, looking at the 9th, that roster, who would have been on between 9:30 and 10:00 -- MR. :_ This is -- MR. : -- in control center -- MR. : == the 9th. MR. : -- or the lieutenant’s office? Who could have been some potential possibilities that you spoke with? MR. : ow, I could have possibly spoke to I could have - and honestly, enough - I could have definitely, possibly spoke tol or too. But yeah. I wouldn't have asked him. EFTA00115888

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PR POoOwo4OnNewnrpE RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR Wh RPRR SOW MMM Re Mme OS © oo mmr Wm & WwW 161 MR : Was there any that you said you definitely would have spoken to someone higher than you? Are you any of those -- well, 1:44:52), I'ma seven, they're : Okay. : You know, and they’ve been in the building for so long, that they -- : Sure, sure, sure. : == they know every nook and cranny in here. MR. | cd Yeah, yeah, yeah. MR. : So, that’s, like, that’s one of the people, like, oh, wait a minute, I don’t know how to do something. Hey, can you teach me how to do this? MR. Sure. MR. : You know, so, they always gave me good information. So, I would have probably asked them. | is always giving me good 163 reason, I'm assuming that the reason that I don’t remember is because I was just moving so fast. Like, I'm usually very, very detailed and trying to remember things, and -- MR. Sure, sure. MR. -- you know, but -. MR. All right. And then, do you know anything about, if the 10:00 p.m. count was conducted? MR. :_ That, I don't know. MR. : You just -- MR. + That -- MR. : == you were gone. MR. :_-- I was gone. MR : Okay. So, you were definite] one by -- MR. : Yeah. I was definitely gone. MR. : -+ before the 10:00 p.m. count. All right. Do you want to ask anything? MR. : No. MR. : Do we have - on the other interview sheets, I had, like, the list of (Indiscernible *01:46:33). Some here. Let me just look. MR. MR. MR. MR. Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH RRR RR UW Wh RR SD MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WME OC woo rm wn rR ee oe RR wr RPRRR SOUS MmMNmMNrMNrMrRR WwNrrH Sooo 162 information when I'm trying to learn something. So, I might have asked him. MR. And so, now - and again, thinking back on, like, how, like you're saying, this is such a higher profile thing, and this was so in the media, and everybody who knew who he was after this - thinking back to that, and thinking, like, oh, shit, I knew he didn't have a cell mate, I know I called somebody, that doesn't help jog your memory of what was said, or what was done, and the fact that you’re involved now, specifically, with central -- . | ae And I'm -- MR. : + (Indiscernible *01:45:41). MR. J: -- and I'm trying to remember exactly who I spoke to. I really am. Because I mean -- Yeah. . -- wouldn't you have thought of that, like, even, like, that day after, like, oh, man, good thing I called that person and told them? MR. Yeah. And, like, the only 164 WR. QM: Initial. Just initial this one, too. WR. ME: «Do you know anything about Epstein being prematurely removed from suicide watch; and the reasons why, if he was? MR. a. Prematurely removed? Factual ly speaking, I don’t know if it’s premature. I'm not psych. Personally speaking, yeah, I think it's probably a little fast. MR. a. Do you know if anybody had any influence on him being removed from suicide watch? WR. | a I don't know. MR. : Okay. So, you don’t know anything about, like, attorneys, or judges, or wardens, or anything -- M : No. -- who had contact with . HM: Yeah. I don’t get to be privy WR. MM: Sure. Do you know anything about the MCC SHU cameras being tampered with or manipulated? wR. BB: No. EFTA00115889

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RR POW OHO BwrPE RRR Bm Wh ee od al oe od Rr SoOW OND mre r Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr RPRRPRPRPR Wwonnu > mmn we wre © 165 MR. QM: «No. Do you know anything about Epstein being in his assigned cell on August 10th? Not being in his assigned cell on August 10th, 2019? MR. : No. Not being in his assigned _-? You mean, that’s because the 10th is when he was discovered? Correct. So, you don’t - Like, so, he was - "Because, I mean, ‘Tike, I worked that day, but I worked at 2:00. So - MR. a. who's in charge of making sure that the inmates are in the cells that shows within the - I don't know if it was Sentry or what system would I be that inmate cell assignments are in? MR. : Oh, like, the Sentry. Yes. a: ensure that -- MR. : That the -. MR. : -- Sentry matches what cells they’re in? Sentry. So, whose job is it to 167 particular case, I would assume that a lieutenant would have been all over that, and they would have made sure it was done properly. MR. MM: So, in this case, should it have been Lieutenant im. who was the SHU lieutenant? MR. + Yeah. MR. : All right. So, he should have been making sure -. So, I mean, it’s from July 30th all the way to August 10th. He's in a cel] that doesn't match up with what Sentry says. . oe That's not good. MR. : So, who, during that period, should have caught that -- MR. That would have been -- MR. : -+ (Indiscernible *01:49:33)? MR. : -+ that would have been the SHU lieutenant. The SHU lieutenant -- Yeah. -- would have audited those reports? wR. BB: Yeah. rR cow oH DU Sw MNP PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn RR BPOWwWo HO BwrPE RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn 166 WR. MM: That's a collective. Really. You know, in the SHU, there’s supposed to be the OIC. And probably with a little help from C&A. On a regular housing unit, you get a new inmate, hey, C&A, I got this new inmate, here's his numbers, and here’s the bed assignment, and C&A keys it in. In SHU, usually - because it’s supposed to be four people in there - the SHU QIC would key the inmate in, when they arrive. MR. a. Okay. So, if after they're -. So, if he arrives from suicide watch on July 30th, 2019, and he’s placed in cell A -- . + Mm-hmn. . : -+ but for whatever reason, a few hours later, it's determined he can't be in cell A, he’s got to be in cell B, and him and his roommate, Reyes, were moved Who's responsible for making over to cell B. that change? MR. : For making it physically or on the computer? MR. : In the computer. MR. : You, like, you, normally, you would want it to be the OIC. For this MR. QM: «To see who is in -. how often_is that audited, do you know? MR. :_ I don't know right off hand. MR. : Okay. MR. : But yeah. should have caught that one. And does that -- Yeah. -- have anything to do with the OIC on the different shifts, to say, like, all right, are these inmates in their appropriate cells, or is Sentry up to date? MR. BB: We can ask one another these questions or whatever, but it’s very difficult MR. : Okay. MR. : == to, you know, do that with everything that’s going on, because even during shift change, nothing stops moving. So, the way I was taught is, like, the morning watch shift, because things slowed down, is they’re supposed to go through the paperwork and check it, and fix everything. mR. = Okay. MR. : This is the way that I was 168 And SHU lieutenant EFTA00115890

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PRR RP RP RPP RPL COND SWNHEOWOHD SBWwrP Mmmenmyr mer OoOw mre r Wn & Ww 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ll RR wr RPRRPRPRPR Wwonnu > mmn we wre © mr wn 169 taught how to do it. You know? So. MR. MM: «Yeah, but ultimately, you believe it was the SHU lieutenant that should have been responsible? Is that a yes or no? Yes. Do you know - ever talk about cell searches? MR. :_No. MR. : Do you know if cell searches were being conducted in the SHU in July and August of 2019? MR. : On my shift, no. On the day shift, that’s when they're supposed to be conducted, because you have more staff, and you can pull inmates out and actually execute that. On the evening shift, you don’t have enough staff to do that. WR. MM: «Per policy, in the SHU, aren't you supposed to - even at that time - to be doing five cell searches per shift? wR. WM: Yeah. You're supposed to do five cell searches per shift, but being that they’re in the SHU and you can't just pull them Did we You didn't even know conducted then? So, they were not being No. Not cells. Yeah. Because you don’t have the pore -- Sure. - to pull these inmates out. And the morning watch, tat was 5 the nOligy, that you just conduct searches of the common areas. But during day watch, and night watch, you were supposed to be doing cell searches. MR. MBM: Easier enough if you have a full crew -- MR. + Right. MR. -- but if you don’t have a full crew hon are you going to execute that? VR. WE: So, the reason why they weren't being done is because you were understaffed? rR cow oH DU Sw MNP PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn RR BPOWwWo HO BwrPE RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn 170 out like that, it’s impossible to do that. So, when you do your searches in SHU, you search kind of, like, the common areas, and, you know, things of that nature, during the day, you know, because inmates are going to recreation, medical, and all this, and things of that nature, or whatever. And so, and you have more people. So, it’s a lot easier to move people from one place, holding cell over here, search the cell, put them back. It’s a lot easier. When I'm on the evening shift, if, you know, if I'm doing social visits - social visits, well, that, too - social visits, or phone calls, or cell sanitation, meaning that, you know, inmates get the broom and sweeps out his cell, I hold the bag up to the slot, he throws his trash out, and then I'm onto the next one. know, it’s -- MR. > Okay. MR. 1 == yeah. MR. : So, are you aware that, at the time, in August 2019, though, it was a policy at least, maybe not practice, but a policy, that five cell searches were supposed to be being conducted during the evening watch? MR. | MR. > Okay. understaffed? MR. Yes, MR. : Okay. Do you remember them ever being done at night watch? WR. MM: No. I’ve never seen a cell search conducted on the evening shift. Okay. That's all I got. That’s all I got, too. Anything - you've got questions for us? - or anything you want to ask about this stuff, or -? WR. WB: Hmm. Where do I stand in the mix of all this, at this point? VR. QM; We don't -. This is a big investigation. We're talking to a ton of . :_ Mm-hmm. : So, as far as what we do is, we just ae put the puzzle together. MR. Mm-hmen MR. : We don’t, you know, say this person or, you know? We basically give our report to the BOP, and the BOP determines -- You Overworked and EFTA00115891

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RR POW OHO BwrPE RRR Bm Wh ee od al oe od Rr SoOW OND mre r Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr RPRRPRPRPR Wwonnu > mmn we wre © mr wn MR. Mm-hme . MR. -- what it is that’s going to happen to people. So, I can't necessarily say this or that, how you stand, or how you don’t stand. We're the fact finders. Mm-hme . You know, we, you know, we present information. We don’t make determinations. So, based upon, you know - and again, I think you’ve already provided all this information in the past - it’s just now, we needed to gain clarification of exactly what you meant rom what you said -- MR. Okay. MR. -- and that was, again, the purpose of this. So, we can't really say. What we can say is that - again - you’re kind of, like, a small piece of this puzzle. MR. : Mm-hmm. My next question is, even though this happened so long ago, why wait so long? MR. : And then, that’s -- MR. : Because that’s not the only -. Like, that’s an incident, yes, and it’s a big one, but working in here, things happen all the 175 MR. MM: | -- and it’s also why there’s a new case agent. So - you know, on this - so, to make sure that we're going through these things, it’s, like, why weren’t these questions asked? Why weren't, you know, that's part_of the reason -- -- why we're here. Is to say, like, all right, well, we'll reading this, but what does he mean by that? You know what I mean? MR. pa MR. : So, that's - again - why we're here, is, like, all right, I could see that you said whatever it is you said, but it’s not clear at all with what you meant. MR. + Right. MR. : And so, that’s why we're here, is to just get clarity on exactly what it was that was stated, and it’s also part of the reason why we've -- MR. : Got the recorder. MR. : == recorded every single on these, is so that we don’t have that problem rR cow oH DU Sw MNP PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn RR BPOWwWo HO BwrPE RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn So -- MR. | ed Sure. MR. : == to be expected to remember . : I totally understand. MR. -- something from 2019, al] the way to 121, and since that timefrane, I've had other inmates attempt suicide, I've had -- MR. : Sure. MR. : == other inmates attack staff members. I’ve had to, you know, be a part of a use of force teams. Multiple things. And I got to go back to 2019 and try to remember specific details -- WR. GR: | Absolutely. time. No, and that is -- MR. J: -- do you know how difficult that is? WR. MR: -- 1 couldn't agree more, and those details should have been provided in 2019. They should have been asked. It's part of the reason why a senior special agent is on this, is to make sure that these questions are being asked -- wR. ME: ob. 176 in the future of, like, well, now we can say exactly what was the question that was asked, what was stated -- -- jn response. -- and what was meant. Right. Mm-hmm And so, that’s part of it. The old case agent, at least from us, is no longer with us. So, that’s another reason why, you know, there’s a lot of reasons why we're doing it now, and we weren't able to do it for a time period. MR. :_ Mm-hmm. MR. : I'm just not -. I'm not sure that I can, you know, I can disclose what . :_ Mm-hmm. . : == reasons were. But there were reasons. And now, we're trying to move as fast as we can. I don't know if you've heard, but we've been in here talking to a lot of people. wR. HE: Yeah. I've heard. I heard EFTA00115892

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PRR RP RP RPP RPL COND SWNHEOWOHD SBWwrP Mmmenmyr mer OoOw mre r Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR & Wh 177 Who it was, I don't that somebody was here. know. MR. : Yeah. Yeah. MR. + But now, I do. MR. : Yeah. So, we're talking to a lot of people, especially a lot of people that, you know, worked August 9th and 10th, because we've got to, you know -- MR. | MR. : == got to make sure that we have our information right. Not just that we talked to people, but we’ve got to make sure that that’s the actual, accurate information. So -- . | enough. MR. : == so, that’s why we're back out here, is primarily to make sure that things are accurate. MR. Okay. Not a problem. And so, with all this and everything like that, so, what's the next course of action? So, I’ve been interviewed, you're still interviewing other people. So, what happens next? VR. RM. That's what we're kind of saying, is, like, we take the information and Nope. 179 wR. i I think this part right here now. Right? ‘a. All right. Anything else, anything else you think that you forgot to share with us -- MR. : *01:57:23). MR. Now, on that note, though, being that this will be reviewed, is there anything you want to say for the record? MR. Pretty much that, like, although it may be a tragedy that he’s gone, I wasn’t here, I didn't have anything to do with j d I really don’t think that, you know, i. HBB should be going through what they're going through. I'm not saying that they didn't make a mistake. But that’s personal opinion. : Okay. : Are you stil] in MR. communication with them? Mm-hme . -- you're (Indiscernible MR. rR cow oH DU Sw MNP PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn RR BPOwWo 4D ewrPe RPRRPR RR SOM ew MMMM NRMRE & WM OC wo rm wn 178 we pass it along. When that will happen, I couldn't tell you that. MR. Okay. MR. Ultimately, though, I would think what would, you know, if you’re talking about what happens specifically with you, that would be in the hands of the BOP. So, and who in the BOP? I don't know about that. . Okay. MR : I don't know if it happens with the warden level. I don't know if it happens with OIA. I don't know what happens there. But yeah. Timing. Like, I don't know. All I know is we're not judge and jury. All we are is the -- MR. MR. MR. Mm-hmm . -- the questioners. Do the -. Find the facts. MR. Gotcha. MR. Can I see all the documents we showed? You si ned all? MR. : Yeah, he did. MR. : You sure. All right. Anything in there, right? I think this -- WR. BB: No. their phone numbers. MR. : Okay. MR. Okay. Great. Well, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much for your cooperation. It is -- MR. : 8:16. MR. : _-- 8:16 p.m. This is Senior Special Agent [i a, and I'm turning off the recorder. 180 I never had either one of EFTA00115893

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181 CERTIFICATE I hereby certify that the foregoing pages represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Interview of J I Brianna Rose Burton, Transcriber EFTA00115894