10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL JULY 20, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 EFTA00115159

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 APPEARANC ies) OR GENERAL co WITN te) ive) co EFTA00115160

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. QERMJ: his is Special Agent J 2 a. Today is Thursday, J time is 4:03 p.m. and I’ve turned on the 4 recorder. My name is a. I’ma Agent with the U.S. Department of ios) 2021. The ies) w tn ue] oO Q pe wu b Ae Q D Oo) q co m r bh a o Oo -h rh Bb Q oO ie} mh Inspector General, New York 7 Field Office and these are my credentials. 8 MS. QJ: 9 Okay. 9 MR. a : This interview is with the 10 Federal Bureau of Prisons Correctional Officer 1 and this interview is ing conduct as 1 and this interview is being conducted 2 part of an official U.S. Department of Justice, 3 Office of Inspector General investigation. 4 Today is July 15, 2021. The time is 4:04 p.m. 15 This interview is being conducted at the 16 Metropolitan Correctional Center located at 150 7 Park Road. We are in the Executive Assistant’s 8 office. Also present is DOJ OIG Senior Special 20 interview will be recorded by me, Special Agent 21 | ti‘z@‘“S Could everyone please identify 22 themselves for the record and spell your last 23 name. To start, I am DOJ OIG Special Agent 25 MR. a : I’m Senior Special Agent EFTA00115161

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] wo 10 11 ive) with the DOJ OIG. MR. a: Can you please state your first and last name? MR. a : Oh, and these are my credentials just so you do know. MS. a: Okay. I’m Correctional the Federal Bureau of Prisons, Department of Justice. MR. QJ: This is an official DOJ OIG investigation into the death of inmate Jeffery Epstein and the surrounding circumstances. You are being asked to voluntarily provide answers to our questions. Will you agree to a voluntary interview with the DOJ OIG? MS. a: Yes. MR. a: Please review DOJ OIG form 3- 226/2. The form basically states, “United States Department of Justice, Office of Inspector General, Warnings and Assurances to Employee Requested to Provide Information on a Voluntary Basis. You are being asked to provide information as part of an investigation being conducted by the Office of Inspector EFTA00115162

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 5 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 General. This investigation is being conducted pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended. The investigation pertains to job performance failure and security failure.” It’s in general. It has nothing to do with you directly, it’s in general, the investigation we’re doing. “This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not have to answer questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you choose not to answer questions. Any statement you furnish may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceedings or agency disciplinary proceedings or both.” The waiver states, “I understand the warnings and assurances stated above and I am willing to make a statement and answer questions. No promises or threats have been made to me or no pressure or coercion of any kind has been used against me.” Please review the document and let me know if you understand. If you do understand, please sign the document o” where it says, “Employee signature,” and print your name. MR. a : And just for the record, it doesn’t basically state what you just said, EFTA00115163

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE fen) 1 it actually states everything that you just used the Ww a H ct if ct fu ct @ M rt S wu ct c ” 4 word “basically states,” I shouldn’t have said fu 5 that. 6 aa: Okay And I sign at employee sig-. 8 MR. a: It says, “Employee signature,” and print your name right below wo 11 MR. Ee : Oh, do you have any that before we go, just you can N Q =] 1) n ct po 2) 5 i] 13) 5 n (Indiscernible *00:03:35). ive) ct is) ot fw b a hel wu 3) ~ : Okay. No. t oO wu 5 QQ i} i} 5 MR. : Just, I mean, the long : Date and time? Lee) 5 9 MR. I’l1l put it in there. WS: -- we can do that. But 21 then just the long and short of it is, it’s n 22 voluntary. You do not have to answer 23 questions. You can leave at any time. No w bd a : That’s the purpose, for 0 EFTA00115164

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 7 1 you just to -. 2 MR. a: So you understand the form 3 and agree to the form. 5 MR. a: This is Special Agent a. 6 I’m signing on the signature of the Office of 7 Inspector General, Special Agent. 8 MR. a : This is Special Agent 9 ee. I’ll be signing as the 10 witness, printing my name as a witness, 11 entering the date and time as July 15, 2021 at 2 4:07 p.m. and the place MCC New York. 3 MR. a: Before starting the 4 interview, I'd like to place you under oath. 15 Ms. a. can you please raise your right 16 hand? Do you swear to tell the truth and 7 nothing but the truth during this interview? 8 Ms. QM: = do. 9 MR. a : Please - you can put your 20 hand down. 21 MS. a: Oh, okay. 22 MR. a: Please let me know if you 23 don’t understand my questions and I’1ll try to 24 repeat it or try to rephrase it for you. EFTA00115165

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co No N N ion) OFFICIAL USE MR. J: = interview is specifi n Jef Ph I’m going to go thro rey Epstein on August 9th and 10th, 20 a want to again, cally ugh si questions. What is your current home address? a: My current home address? MR. ae: Yes. MS aa: Why is that relevant for this? MR a: As part of our investi-. MR. Ee : You don’t have to provide that Oh 5 | 1 rn kind of, like a we can verif providing us your da Hh social of our your Ye of birth and last You know four of my social, give my address. If you have anything - PIV card you can show us y who it is that you are? what? I left it at That’s okay. Do you mind te of birth and your last security number? my date ifs) wu EFTA00115166

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

> LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 9 1 MR. a: What is your highest level 2 education? Oo hh 3 MS. a: Master’s degree 4 MR. QJ: Okay.) In what 5 MS. a: Inspector General 6 investigations, fraud, abuse of correctio organizational as 8 MR. a : You know more about this a] e a] sment and monitoring. is] 9 stuff than us then 10 MR Which college? John J. MR . ae: And what about bachelors? N Fs 3 MS. My bachelors was correctional 4 administration 5 MR. a: What did you do prior to 16 working for the BOP? Ask her about where this J 5 fos) n rt c Ph f was and when she got these degrees. wo 5 21 got my BA in I believe 2006. No ion) Hi K oO n Okay. And what - so prior to hh e) KR ct z © + 25 working what did you c EFTA00115167

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE 10 Juvenile corrections. State Department of S K QQ ae 5 pe. fw Gq is ) 3 b = 0) qQ c if] ct # 0 i) Was that directly before the K oO n I you don’t 1 be approximate. Estimate, yeah. MS. a: Approximately, I think or ‘07 to 2009, when I started here. bg Oo P= wu tet Do you have any military service? with the Federal Bureau of Prisons? MS. a: Approximately now, 2009, is 10 years, 20, 21, going on 11 and a half EFTA00115168

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 11 1 when was your enter on duty date? 2 ms. Eg: /2009. ies) a When did you graduate from I don’t remember that. I wi th a Q Oo 5S ct I 7 MR. a : When did you begin your career here at MCC? co © n March of 2011. 10 MR. a: And what was your position at 2 MS. a: Correctional Officer. ition? ive) Fs) What is your compo 4 MS. a: Correctional Systems Officer. t wi a And what’s your regular oO schedule right now? 7 MS. QJ: 12:00 to Friday. i C co :00 Monday through co ite] Fs o Oo le 12] o | 20 MR. QJ: | What does your position 21 entail? What is that? 22 MS. a: Receiving and discharge, 23 movement. I deal with state risk, federal 24 risk, detainers, pending charges, warrants, 25 what else? EFTA00115169

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE tody? is] MS. MR. level? 9th and i] c iQ oc ur ct And MR. 10th, 2 was a I was wor I don What is 019? king overtime in ‘'t even is Saturday. the roster -- what | | wu =] oo ct ee iy] rt wn Hh is) R r ba te] c n t 0 rt ion EFTA00115170

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 13 w ~] wo 10 11 ive) MS. a: This is two -. MR. a : -- provide her also her timesheet. MR. a : Yes. Is this your timesheet for the same time period? MR. a : Show her the columns (Indiscernible *00:08:55). MS. aa: Okay. MR. a: It’s (Indiscernible MS. a: I normally write everything on a calendar, but looks like my timesheet. MR. a: So, the timesheet is for August 4th all the way to August 17th. For the 9th, where does this timesheet show that you worked? MS. a: This - it doesn’t show where you’re working, it just shows the hours you’ve worked. MR. QJ: «Is it coded under a certain entry? MR. ae : Well just ask her, do you know by looking at these documents, do you know where on August 9th and August 10th you were working? This is not an, “I got you,” EFTA00115171

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 14 uw ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 whatsoever. Just like, do you recall on August 9th(Indiscernible *00:10:03) working? MS. a: Well, I know that this is a custody overtime code for the overtime sheets. So this is -. MR. a: If it doesn’t state, that’s okay. MS. a: It’s possible, because I do - I was working a lot of overtime, so. But I can’t recall off the top of my head. But I know I did work the evening of the Epstein situation, so. MR. a : When you say “evening.”? MS. QJ: §9The morning he hung himself. MR. a: Okay. So according to the August 10th schedule, find yourself on the schedule? | Uh-huh. MR. a: What were you listed for? HMM: Control one. | Control one. Okay. Do you recall being interviewed by - recall interviewing with the OIG regarding the Epstein investigation in 2019? MS. a: I remember being interviewed, EFTA00115172

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 15 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 yes. MR. a: Okay. What I have is a summary off a report written by the FBI. Was the FBI also present? MS. a : Yes. MR. a: We did get a copy of it because OIG was present for the interview also. I’m going to read a portion of the interview record for you. MR. a : Does it state when she worked on August 9 and 10? That might help clarify things. MR. a : For the 10th it does. And so, I’m going to read it. As I read through it, it’s just summary for the record. Please tell me if there’s any corrections and let me know -- MS. a: Okay. MR. a: -- and we’ll address it. “Control’s duties including monitoring the activity on the ranges, answering calls from COs, replying on the radio and opening doors.” MS. a: Monitoring - you - at that time, we didn’t have cameras on the ranges so you could only see the center, which is like, EFTA00115173

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 16 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 they consider it the MPA, multi-purpose area of the unit. You are not able to see down the actual ranges of the units, so no. I wouldn’t say, “The ranges,” I would say, “The multi- purpose area.” MR. a: Multi-purpose area of the ranges. “And | did I pronounce it right? MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. MR. a : yo stated that no one is really moving anywhere within the institution. A count sheet is called the E-1 and it is printed off from the internal MCC system called SENTRY. Control validates all respondent numbers from the head counts and marks an X on the E-1 sheet to confirm the count. This happens for every check of every unit. E-1s are supplemented with count slips that are properly filled out and stapled to the E-1 timesheet. Once all head count numbers are verified to be correct, everything is documented, recorded and then considered to be a good count. | | began her shift on August 10th at 12:00 midnight to 8:00 a.m. [xg stated that Lieutenant | took care of EFTA00115174

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 17 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) the 12 o’clock that day.” I’m going to pause right there. I’m going to ask you a question. Do you recall coming on shift that day? Ms. QJ: = ves. MR. a: Do you recall the first count would be at 12:00 midnight? MS. a: Yes. MR. a: And were you in Control when the count happened? MS. EJ: ves. MR. a: Who took the count? MS. aa: I don’t remember at that time. I don’t remember all this time ago, but if I said the Lieutenant took the count at that time, then that’s who took the count, because every Lieutenant is required to take a count, one count per shift. MR. a : But you don’t recall the MR. QJ: ts think what he’s asking was, was Lieutenant | in the Control with you? MS. a: At some point in time, yes . wn is] is rh a) he was taking the EFTA00115175

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 18 w ~] ive) count, does that mean that she Control? MS. a: Yes, she’s doing it from Control. MR. QJ: Okay. MR. | Okay. yl recalled that CO Thomas -” - and this says CO Noel, but is that Noel? Noel. Mn “CO Noel worked in the SHU on the day of the incident. | stated that Noel was fairly new. | stated that she does not pay specific attention to just one individual screen during her shifts since so much is going on. | stated that extension | | is a number that is called for reporting € the count. If a Lieutenant is on the unit for the count, then this is when it is considered a 03) Ya’ watch call. On the 3:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m. watch calls, JJ ran the counts. [XR recalled that the SHU called in the count of the day and that the count was accurate. | does not recall who called in the count from the SHU but recalled that the number was 72. | stated that there are folders that EFTA00115176

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 are filed that are compiled with count verification timesheets for every day of the calendar year.” MS. a : That is correct. MR. a: So I asked you, on August 10th, you said you worked at midnight in Control. MS. a: Yes. MR. a: Do you recall if you worked on August 9th? MS. I probably did. I don’t recall that, this far from now to then, but I probably most likely worked that day and if it’s on the roster and it’s on my timesheet, most likely, yes. MR. a: But you wouldn’t happen to recall if you worked in internal or R&D? MS. a: I know I worked R&D because that’s my regular position and Custody, anything I did in Custody would be considered overtime for me. MR. a : Okay. So, on August 9th, by based on that, it wouldn’t tell - would the (Indiscernible *00:15:16). MS. a: It did say overtime. It did 19 EFTA00115177

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 20 1 say overtime in internal. 2 MR. a: But internal is not - i 7] rt ey rm) rt Ww ct ie) @ if wu 3 @ wu n wm in o 4 MS. QJ: No. R&D, this is 5 R&D is Correctional 6 different departments. 7 is non-custody. 8 this, were you in 9 10 I was there. 11 So you were working in 2 internal, not in R&D. 3 Yes 4 Do you recall who your 5 supervisor was when you worked at the MCC on 16 August 9th and 10th? 7 I would only know by looking 8 at a. Lieutenant a . 9 So you report only to 20 WN». © do you report to any other C a: No, she’s the only 22 on duty during that time. 21 MS supervisor 23 MR. a: During the night. And so ho both days it was midnight to 8:00 a.m. No w EFTA00115178

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 21 1 MR. a: Okay. Was she also a 2 supervisor? 3 MS. a: Yes. 4 MR. ae: Are you familiar with inmate 5 Jeffrey Epstein? Vac res. 7 MR. a : Did Jeffrey Epstein have a Oo co cell mate? MS. a: Yes, he did. 10 MR. a: Do you know who it was? wo 11 a: I don’t know, but I know the 2 inmate went out to court I believe Friday and 3 he didn’t come back from court. I don’t know 4 if he got released from court, but he didn’t 15 come back to the institution that day. 16 MR. ae: How do you know that? 7 MS. Because I work in R&D. 8 MR. So, is this from your 9 knowledge from working in R&D that day or ona 20 later date? 21 MS. a: My knowledge of working in 22 R&D that day. 23 MR. a: So that’s - okay. Because 24 according to this, you were in R&D -- 25 MS. QJ: 91 was in Rep. EFTA00115179

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 22 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 MR. a: -- I mean, you’re in internal. MS. a: Right. But this is midnight. My hours in R&D is from 12:00 to 8:00. MR. QJ: §=12:00 to 8:00? So you did work later in the shift -- Ms. QJ: 9 Right. MR. a: -- so that (Indiscernible *00:16:56) be on the schedule at all. You’re not going to be on this roster. It’s not going to show you as 12:00 to 8:00. MS. aa: Custody has a different roster from my department roster. MR. QJ: 9 Okay. MS. a: So you’re not going to see my department. My department hours would be that - what you see on that timesheet and this is considered overtime. So anything here, where it says, “Additional,” this is overtime because you see the two shifts, the eight up here and the eight at the bottom. MR. a: Okay. MS. a: And that’s 16 hours for the day. MR. a: So I’m going to go back and EFTA00115180

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 23 1 clarify. On August 9th, you worked from 2 midnight to 8:00 a.m. -- 3 MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh 4 MR. ae: -- and you were in internal. 6 MR. ae: And then after that, what was 7 your next shift? 8 MS. aa: That was Saturday, the next 9 day. That would be midnight the next night. 10 MR. QJ: 9 okay. These are all midnight ive) Fs) A 2 shifts Midnight shifts But did you 4 work regular shifts those days? August 9th and 15 10th? 16 MS. In my department? a: 7 MR. QJ: 9 Yeah, in Rep. a: 8 MS. If it’s a Friday anda 9 Thursday or a Friday and a Saturday. A 20 Saturday, I wouldn’t be in my department, no. 21 MR. ae: What about Friday? 22 MS. a: Friday I’m in my department, 23 yes, because my department is Monday through 25 MR. ae: And what’s your regular time? EFTA00115181

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 24 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Ms. QJ: 12:00 to 8:00. I believe I was working 12:00 to 8:00. I’m not sure. MR. a: That’s midnight to 8:00, right? But midnight to 8:00 -. MS. a : No, no, no, 12:00 p.m. in the afternoon -- MR. a : 12:00 p.m. to 8:00. MS. a: -- to 8:00 p.m. MR. a: To 8:00 p.m. So, according to this, you were in internal from - on August 9th, from midnight to 8:00 a.m., then there was a four hour break? Are you saying there was a four hour break and then you worked from -. MS. QJ: =1’m not sure right here based on this because I might have been working 2:00 to 10:00 because I had to do 12:00 8:00 p.m. or 2:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. MR. a: Okay. MS. a : So, based on this, this says, “Regular base.” This might have been from the day shift because this says, “Regular base,” so this might have been, I worked midnight to 8:00 in the morning and then maybe 8:00 to 4:00 in my department because I don’t see no - well, I don’t record my duty hours in my department at EFTA00115182

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 25 uw ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 that time. MR. a: It’s been a while. MS. a: I’m sorry. Yeah. MR. a : But to follow up though, you said that you knew that Epstein’s cell mate had left because you were working in R&D, so you probably want to follow up -- MR. QJ: yeah. So -. MR. QJ: -- with that. MS. a: So we key inmates in and out to court. MR. a : Okay. MR. a : So that - so, Reyes, how did you first come to learn that he left? MS. a: Because we have to key them out to go to court. I mean, I don’t know actually at that moment that he was Epstein’s cell mate, but when the comment came up that his bunkie, they moved his bunkie, they put him in a cell by himself, and when we learned who that specific inmate was, that’s how I became aware that, no, this guy went to court and he was released from court, wherever he got removed to. Never came back from court. MR. a: What do you mean they moved EFTA00115183

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 26 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 his bunkie to a separate cell? MS. a: They kept saying Epstein was put in a cell by himself, he didn’t have a cell mate. MR. a: Okay. MS. a: That was not the case, he did have a cell mate, but he got released from court or wherever it is the Marshals took him to, that he didn’t come back to MCC. But off the top to say I knew that that was actually his cell mate, I didn’t know that until we became aware of who the inmate was that got released and went to court, because we don’t know who inmate’s cell mates are just by working in R&D, we just know their bed assignment and what unit they’re coming from. MR. a: No, working the R&D, are you familiar with something called the court list? MS. Yes. MR. Was inmate Reyes’s name on the court list? MS. a : Yes. MR. a: Do you recall? MS. a: Yeah. Because I think that’s the guy we keyed out to court. EFTA00115184

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 27 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a: Okay. And what is a court list? MS. a: A court list is something we get from the Marshals. They’1ll send us over just a roster of names of inmates to appear for production to the court either going out ona RIT (Phonetic Sp. *00:21:13), being transferred to another jail. A court list consists of whatever type of movement that the Marshals want the inmates for. It could be appearing before a proffer to tell on somebody, it could just be whatever it is that they need them to appear for the court production for. MR. QJ: 9How do the Marshals send it over? MS. a: They always email it or fax it. MR. a: Who receives the email? MS. a : Everybody in R&D. MR. QJ: §9Do you recall who was working in R&D that day? MS. a : No. MR. a : Everybody receives it. MS. a: Yeah, everybody in R&D receives it, but I couldn’t say off the -- EFTA00115185

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 28 2 MS. a: -- top of my head, “Oh, this person worked,” I don’t remember who worked ies) 4 with me that day. I U oO Mm K Me o Oo ion & ct a wu rt Les] Fs) | | re] 2) c 5 rt tr] a o o ct uo ° bh rt 9 doesn’t matter who was working that day or not. 10 WEN: Right. 1 MR. Ee : Everybody would have ive) a Uh-huh. 4 MR. a: Do you recall receiving that F oO s Lee) 5 20 MR. 21 mentioned all 22 there anything for mov 23 send it ey email it. And EFTA00115186

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 29 w ~] ive) what do you get? MR. a : Email or fax you said, right? MS. a : Email or fax. MR. a: Or fax. MR. a : Is it (Indiscernible *00:22:21) -. MS. aa: Well, I believe they were doing both email and faxing at that time. MR. a : So you get both. MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. MR. a : Okay. MR. a: And once the list comes over, and who did you say creates the court list? MS. a: The movement officer and if the movement officer is not there, whoever is filling in, it might be somebody in the front desk. Just whoever is in the department, they’11 fill out the - complete the court list, put it on a call out and get it prepared so overnight, the officer who is internal can pass it out to the housing unit so the inmates are aware when they wake up the next day or the officer can say, “Hey, I got this inmate, I’ve got to get him ready for court the next day.” EFTA00115187

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL officer? don’t know if - I don’t a: officer at that time. don’t know. When do the -. When talking about control? mean internal? R&D. R&D movement officer? different position - hk o ul] a ve different positions had a different is the movement with *00: internal transfer orders if inmates (Indiscernible they are - they prepare the moving out of the -- —: - MS. USE 30 EFTA00115188

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 31 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a : So they’re doing the background of what the internal guy does almost. MS. a : They don’t have anything to do with internal. MR. a : Okay. Because - okay. MS. a: It’s - no. MR. a : I’m making more things more (Indiscernible *00:23:38). MS. a : Nothing to do with internal. It’s just preparing inmates to move out of the institution, preparing the production list for inmates to - for a unit - for a list to be disseminated to the housing units for the officers to know what inmate has to appear in court the next day. The movement officer might draft up a - get a compile, like a medical summary, transit order, anything that they need to put together for an inmate to be released to move out of the institution to be transferred. That’s what the movement officer does. MR. a : Great. MR. a: Do you recall what your position was in the R&D that day? EFTA00115189

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 32 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MS. a: I might have been R&D. MR. a: Okay. MS. a: I might have been R&D. I don’t believe I was movement but I might have been R&D. MR. a: So as R&D, what would you take care of? MS. a: Court movement, inmates going in and out, keying them in and out, getting inmates down to my area to get prepared for court, tracking inmates going out to the hospital, keying inmates going out to the hospital, keying inmates coming back. Basically, I would be responsible for like inmates leaving in and out of the institution - MR. a: Okay. MS. a: -- and preparing them to get out of the institution. MR. QJ: 9 We can take a step back. When did the Marshals list normally come over? Do they send it over the night before? MS. a: Yes. MR. a: Evening before or they send it the morning of? EFTA00115190

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 33 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MS. a: The evening before. MR. a: Around what time? MS. a: I think it’s always around - it’s approximately between, I would say, maybe 3:00 and 5:00 or - yeah, between like 3:00 and 5:00, something like that. MR. a : Okay. And -. MS. a: Around that time frame. It’s not like a set time, it’s whoever does it and faxes it over and emails it. But it was about maybe between 3:00 and 5:00 or 3:00 and 6:00, something like that. MR. a : And then once R&D receives it, you guys prepare a court list. Ms. QJ: 9 uh-huh. MR. a: And what does it state on the court list? MS. a: It’s just a document, like a SENTRY created document that show the inmate’s name, his housing unit, if he has a separatee (Phonetic Sp. *00:25:49) in the institution and what time he has to come down to R&D to move out for court, whether it be that he has court in the a.m. or court in the p.m. MR. a: Okay. And would it state, EFTA00115191

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 34 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 like, let’s say if an inmate was leaving and not coming back, would it state on there? MS. a: Yeah, it would say, “WAB,” but most often times, pre-trial is - because they’re not our inmates, they’re Marshals inmates, the Marshals can move them at any given time and just forward us back a disposition of the inmate leaving. “Inmate so and so was released to Probation. Here’s a cut slip for you guys, file -” - then we can go ahead and key them out. But we don’t key inmates out WAB if they’re going out to court. We key them out - at that time, we were doing what was considered an out count. We weren’t keying inmates out, we were keying them on an out count so we know that we have an account of who went out to court and we have an account of who came back from court. MR. a: So are you saying that you guys wouldn’t remove the inmate completely from the count, you would just leave them under the out count? MS. QJ: Yes. We would only remove him if prior to that list, when we got the list, it says, “Transferred WAB, we’re sending EFTA00115192

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 35 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 him somewhere to Brooklyn or he’s going back to the state,” that night before we would know that. But sometimes at the spur of the moment, things might arise, a judge might give a person time served, he might commit him to drug treatment program, Probation might come and pick him up. It could be a number of things that take place at court that it might be just a regular court proceeding but then he gets released and he doesn’t come back to the institution. MR. a: Do you recall seeing inmate Efrain Reyes’s name on that list? MS. a: If he was on that list at that time, then I’ve seen it, but I don’t recall now, speaking now, but at that time, yeah, if his name was on the list, yes. MR. a: Do you recall if his - I know you said you don’t recall, but by any chance, would you have known if he left WAB? What does WAB stand for? MS. a : With all belonging, meaning they’re being transferred either to an air lift, transferred to another BOP, transferred to another state institution, that the Marshals EFTA00115193

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 36 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 will be transferring them to. MR. a: And you don’t recall if he - do you recall if his name was on as WAB on that list? MS. a : No. I don’t recall that. MR. a: Okay. We’ll come back ina little bit. The court list that you guys create, who does that get sent to? MS. a : It doesn’t get sent to - it gets sent to the unit officers. We don’t email it out, we make hard copies and the internal officer comes around at night and he gives one to each housing unit. MR. QJ: 9 Around what time? MS. a: Depending on - any time during from midnight to 8:00 in the morning. They have up until to give out that. But most likely, no later than 5:00 a.m., after the 5 o'clock count because at that time, that’s when the institution is opening up after the 5:00 a.m. count, then the inmates will have their breakfast and start preparing for whatever it is their day entails. MR. a: Do you recall working that morning in R&D and seeing inmate Reyes come EFTA00115194

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE lo —] 1 down? 2 MS. a: I don’t remember. 3 MR. ae : Okay. And when the list is 4 sent up to the units, what do they do with it? 5 MS. a: The unit officers take it and 6 he views it and it just tells him who on his 7 unit has court that day. 8 MR. a: Is a copy of that list 9 maintained anywhere? 10 MR. QJ: By pop. 11 MR. QJ: 9 Rep. 2 MS. a: No. Because -- a : Where do we get it? 4 MS. a: -- once we - once that list ive) a) 15 is done of the day, we just shred it, we don’t 16 need it 7 MR. ae : What about what’s used to 8 - it sounds like create the list from the 9 Marshals, can we get - can we go back to emails 20 from August 8th, I guess it would be, to get 21 that court list from August 9th? 22 MS. QJ: =f it’s still in the 23 yeah, you would still - you would be able to 24 see it, yeah. 25 MR. a : And you said at that EFTA00115195

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 38 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 time, they’re both fax and email so any single person we could just grab an email from them if it was archived? MS. QJ: «Uh-huh. If it’s still, you know, in the system, but we don’t normally keep court lists. Once we done for that day, everything gets shredded and we start fresh for the next day. So we don’t hold onto court lists. MR. a : Okay. MS. a : Just something we never did. The only thing we hold onto is transfer orders, people that transferred out, like -. MR. QJ: «So for instance, with Reyes - when you say “transfer order,” does that also mean released or is that just transferred to a different institution? MS. a: Transferred to a different institution -- MS. a: -- because if he got released or he got a disposition, that would be something we would place in his file, why he got released. You know you got to have something to show that why you released this EFTA00115196

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) lo \o inmate, that we didn’t just let him walk out the door, we have this document from the Marshals why we released him. MR. a : So would Reyes have a file like that? MS. aa: If it’s not sent to and this is 2021, his file would be - his file probably archived now. MR. a : even thought it’s like - th everything + ifs) wo my understanding was like August was going to be, like, preserved August 9th and 10th. Do you know if that would create it not actually be archived but actually still maintained somewhere? MS. a: You would have to get with SIS, I don’t know. MR. ae : Okay. MS. a: I don’t know. I don’t know. MR. a: Do you know if that court list is used to update the daily log? MS. a: What do you mean? MR. a: Do you know what a daily log MR. a : Show her. MR. a : Have you ever seen that? EFTA00115197

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 40 1 MS. Uh-huh. This is -- 2 MR. Is that - 3 MS. -- 38. 4 MR. It’s a what 5 MS. We call this a PP38 6 MR. PP38. 7 MS. It just tracks movement of 8 who went out the institution, who went from 9 what unit to what unit, who got keyed out. 10 This is what is. It just tracks all the 11 movement for that day. 2 MR. ae: Can you flip to the third 3 page for inmate Efrain Reyes. You see next to 4 it it says, “Pre-remove.” Do you know what 5 hat 2? Lo that means? 16 MS. a: Uh-huh. That means he was removed from the institution. 8 MR. a : Does that mean there’s a 9 possibility that the Marshals list came over -- 20 MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. 21 MR. QJ: 9 -- with him as a WAB? 22 MS. MJ: Possibility. Yeah. 23 MR. a: What else could it - why else 24 would you an inmate as pre-remove? 25 MS. a: We don’t list them as pre- EFTA00115198

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 41 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 remove, we just key him out as pre-remove. MR. a: So he was keyed out at that point. MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. MR. a: And what time was it keyed out, do you know? MS. QJ: «8:38. uh-huh. MR. QJ: 9 And he wouldn’t be - if a person is going to court, what would it be listed as? MS. a : If he’s going to court on this, you wouldn’t see - at that time, you wouldn’t see that he went to court. You would have to run an out count to show who was keyed out to court. So, you wouldn’t be able to see that on this because this just tracks who came into the institution, who left the institution and what housing units they were transferred from, whether they came out of SHU or they went to SHU or they got moved from one unit, housing unit, to another housing unit or if they’re - say an inmate got sentenced, this would show you that he might have went from a A-pre, meaning a pre-trial inmate to a hold, he might have pled guilty so now he’s longer a pre-trial EFTA00115199

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 42 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 and he’s waiting sentencing. So this would just show you stuff like that. Or he became a designated inmate and he’s a BOP inmate. MR. How would you be able to see the difference between an inmate that just left for court and was coming back and an inmate that left? MR. QE: or was. : WAB. mz a: ! MR. a: Yeah. Can you? | Yeah, you could just see - well, you don’t know, you just know that they were pre-removed. So you don’t know, looking at this, why they were pre-removed. MR. : So I guess what he means though, is if someone is just going to court and didn’t go to court WAB versus someone who went to court WAB, would they be coded differently on that? MS. a: At that time, we weren’t - if the inmate went to court and he was a WAB, we would key him out pre-remove or hold-remove. EFTA00115200

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 43 1 So yes, but - I’m trying to think, what did you 2 just say. it again. ies) id wo 18) b guess, is there a 4 differentiation, if someone is WAB, are they 5 coded as pre-remove if they’re just going to 6 court and they don’t have WAB next to their 7 name on that form, would it just say something 8 different, like “Court?” 9 MS. a: No, you wouldn’t see WAB on 10 this form. You -. 11 MR. : No, no, no, I’m not 2 saying like you would see WAB on that form -- 3 MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. 4 MR. ae : -- I’m just saying like, 15 if an inmate goes to court, are they always 16 listed as pre-remove? 7 MS. a: No, they’d be hold to move. 8 MR. a : And what’s the 9 difference? So is it either pre-remove or 20 hold-remove? 21 MS. QJ: 9 or bail bond. 22 MR. ae : Or bail bond. And can 24 MS. a: Or time served. MR. a : Okay. So, when they’re EFTA00115201

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 44 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 leaving and - so it sounds like the latter to that are totally different things. But if -. MS. a: Well, no. They could be on the court list and they could appear and go out to court as a court and they might get ordered to time served. MR. QR: uh-huh. MS. QJ: So, now, we have them on an out count as going to court because we weren’t keying inmates physically out of the institution, we were placing them on an out count. So you would send them out to court as a court, but if you got a disposition back from the Marshals stating that, “Inmate so and so was sentenced to time served,” now you would go back in the system and you would key him out, time served. So it doesn’t necessarily mean that they could be on the court list as a WAB because that doesn’t always happen. Sometimes they do get released straight from the courthouse and never come back to the jail, so those things do happen. MR. a : And that’s what ha- so, what we’re trying to get to is, is there any way by looking at that, we can determine if EFTA00115202

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 45 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Reyes, when he left at 8:38, had a WAB next to his name. MS. a: Not from looking at this, no. MR. ER: «0? MR. a : The only way we would be able to determine that is by getting that court list? MS. a : Yes. MR. QJ: 411 right. And -. MS. a : Because the Marshals could have sent something back over and said, “Inmate so and so is not coming back, he’s going with Probation.” He could have had a court appearance and he could have - it could have been with his probation officer and at that time, the judge could have said whatever and sentenced the inmate to probation. So now, he’s not coming back to the institution, now we’ve got to pre-remove him. It just all depends on what happened at court and it all depends on what his status was prior to going to court, what we got far as the court list. So I couldn’t tell you that just by looking at that. EFTA00115203

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 46 1 MR. (MJ: 9 When the Marshals send ver whatever it is they send over, did they N Oo ies) 7 ave WAB on their form? w ig c al 10) be 7 MR. a : So, if we get one of it would say WAB on it. Les] ct J Oo o o o 3 7] b k wo oO i U Ae) ct ” a wu t time, it said WAB, i=) that’s not and write WAB, they ive) oO co it to the housing units like that. 22 MR. ae : Okay. But somebody that 23 your - so, my understanding though is that not that goes to court is WAB. EFTA00115204

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 47 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 MR. Ee : And just to make sure that we are understanding correctly on that, so people that just go to court, would they also be listed as pre-remove? MS. a: They could possibly be, yes. MR. a : Just possibly, but -. MS. a: It could possibly be because the Marshals might call you and say, “Hey, we got inmate so and so, he’s not coming back, he’s going with the state,” and they’1l send us a cut slip. Yeah. MR. a : No, that’s after the fact though, after they’ve already left? MS. a: That can possibly happen after they left, yes. MR. Ee : So if we’re looking at this thing on RAS (Phonetic Sp. *00:37:52) where it says 8:38, is that what was entered for him at 8:38 or is it that could have been changed later on, the pre-remove thing? MS. a: It just depends on what time he went out. I don’t know because it could have been changed. Well, no. Well, I can’t tell you just by looking at this. MR. a: So, all right, so this EFTA00115205

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 48 uw ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 doesn’t tell us anything? MS. a: It tells you that he was removed from the institution. MR. QJ: ts 8:38 though. MR. a : And I guess, so - and again, I -. MS. a: Because at one point in time, how we key inmates out now is not how we were keying inmates out then. We didn’t key them out, we just placed them on the out count. So, if we keyed them on an out count, they would show off of the unit population but they would still be on the institutional count. MR. a : Okay. MS. a: Now, how we key them out, they’re off the institutional count and they’re off the unit count. So when we key them out now for court, they - it’s like they never - they’re not here in the institution at all. MR. a : Okay. So for these people that were on this pre-remove, does that mean at 8:38, pre-remove, that he was taken off of the institutional count? MS. a: Yes. EFTA00115206

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 4 its] And is there - I do see a ies) a 4 few pre-removes on there though. Uh-huh. wi th that went to court that wasn’t listed as a pre- 8 remov o 7) I don’t know. 10 MR. a : You can’t tell by looking 11 at that? A right. So that basically doesn’t Nm ct 0) ra be c A WwW H fu =] he > rt hk a bh p. te] ia g about him being WAB or not. Right. I can’t tell you who 5 MR. a : Okay. We just need to f foal Q oO ct ct a w ct Q ie) a f b. if] rt 7 MR. a: So just to clarify. Some of this list as pre-remove can come back. co Can’t? its] n Can, C-A-N, they could come 21 back to the institution. 22 MS. QJ: 1f he 23 the Marshals brough him 24 MR. a : But - okay. So if there is 25 pre-removed, that means he’ and Q ie) rt k. ion wu a , if) Ss gone. He EFTA00115207

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 50 1 MS. a: He’s gone. 2 MR. a: He’s gone. Ww 77) wy im Q 7 rr 4 MR. a : And he’s not expected to Ww Q ie) 3 i) oO w Q aa: Correct. 7 MR. QJ: Okay. All right. I did 8 miss that. All right. So when you list them 9 as pre-remove, he’s going to court, he’s not 10 expected to come back. 11 a: Correct 2 MR. a : So at 8:38, Reyes was ive) gone and not expected to return. 4 MS. a: Yes. 16 Marshals supposed to send over a confirmation 7 that he’s not coming back? Because you 8 mentioned something about they being keyed as 9 something different when they are officially 20 gone, like they’re off the books. 21 MS. QJ: 9=oNo, this would be officially No Hi wo =] tt = a it) ct ct az o Q c i) 103) ct bh. 2) o = ifs wi rr would I know at this time, wa No EFTA00115208

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 51 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 would only know that if I looked at the court list at that time, then I can determine that, “Okay, yeah, we keyed him out that way because he was leaving with all his belonging,” Or, “No, we keyed him out that way because we got a disposition later and stated that he wasn’t coming back.” I can’t just say, just by looking at this, “Oh, well, we keyed him out that way because he was a WAB.” Now, I can look at this GCT release and this full term release or this treaty transfer and tell you that these were guys that were getting full term release from the jail and they were not coming back. But - and I can also say that he’s not coming back, but I can’t tell you why he was pre-removed. I don’t know the circumstances of why he was pre-removed. I would have to go back to his folder, look in his folder, pull up his documents of why we keyed him out. I can’t just say, “Oh, yeah, because he left with all his belongings, oh, it ” was a court -” - I can’t -. MR. QM: So: you can’t tell that, but you can tell 8:38 he left and was not expected to return. EFTA00115209

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 52 1 MS. a: Yes. 2 MR. a : Okay. So that’s 3 basically the same thing. So, anybody that 4 knew that Reyes was gone at 8:38, like he was, 5 knew very unlikely to return. 6 MS. aa: Everybody don’t have - 7 everybody doesn’t look at this 8 MR. a : Okay. 3 you don’t have a 10 you're not going to 11 everybody - 2 MR. a : But anybody that had the 3 - whatever reason you used to code him out like 4 that, they would have had that court list and 15 they would have had the same - they would hav 16 known the reason why he was leaving though, correct? 22 MR. ae : So, okay. So not 23 specifically that document, but what you used 24 to key him out, they would know. 25 MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. EFTA00115210

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 53 1 MR. Ee : so, okay. So, ased upon 2 the fact that he was pre-removed by R&D, for 3 instance, the unit he came from, the Special 4 Housing Unit, they should have known he left 5 and was very likely not returning. 6 MS. aa: They wouldn’t know that. The ~] officers on the unit would not know that. 8 MR. a : Even if they had the 9 court list and that’s where they’re grabbing 10 him from? 11 MS. a: If the - let me tell you 2 something. I’m trying to figure out how to 3 this. Everybody that reads a document, do not 4 know what they’re reading. 15 MR. QJ: okay. 16 MS. a: Everybody that pulls up 7 SENTRY, does not know how to read a SENTRY 8 document. 20 MS. QJ: = So I can’t say, “Yes,” that 21 they should know that or, “No.” 22 MR. ae : If they knew how to read 23 the court l , they would know. 24 MS. a: Yes. 25 MR. a : Got you. EFTA00115211

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 54 1 MS. QJ: 9 Right 2 MR. a : Yeah, you can’t certainly 3 can’t say he knew that because you don’t even 4 know who we’re talking about. 6 MR. a : But I’m just saying, like 7 the information would have been on there if 8 they knew how to interpret it. 10 MR. QJ: okay. 11 MR. a: we might have covered this 2 already, but if we wanted to go back and 3 retrieve that court document, like get a copy, 4 what’s the best way we can do it? 15 MS. a: You probably need to get with 16 the Marshals because they’re the ones that 7 create that list that they sent to us in order 8 for production. 9 MR. a : Are you aware if they retain 20 it or not? 21 MS. a: I don’t know nothing about 22 what they do with their -- 23 MR. a: Okay. 24 MS. a: -- documents. 25 MR. ae: No problem. EFTA00115212

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 55 w ~] ive) MR. Ee : No, well, she said that it’s emailed to everybody -- MR. a: Now, after reviewing that, do you know if that daily log - if the court document, the court list is used to update the Lieutenant’s log? MS. a: There’s - yeah, yeah. MR. a: And the daily log. Ms. BJ: 9 Right. MR. a: Okay. We covered this. And the daily log, the entries that are made on it, is it made at the time that it’s keyed in or is it - can it be edited later? MS. a: When you say “edited,” what do you mean? MR. a: Can someone go in a couple hours later and key in saying that, “Hey, listen, this person left at 8:38.” i] it] MS. a: I don’t think so because everybody that actually - you have a certain time frame to key inmates in and you have a certain time frame to key inmates out. EFTA00115213

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 56 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a: And what’s the time frame? MS. a: If inmates - but sometimes in R&D, we don’t always get to sit down at the computer right then and there and key them out, because we’re dealing with the Marshals, they’ re walking out with one guy, we still have somebody else we might have to strip out. We’re still dealing with this, we’re dealing with the phone. When an inmate is being released, you’re supposed to key them out right then and there, but you have up to a minimum of at least, I think it’s an hour or two hours, to key somebody in that’s coming in the institution. But, like I said, just looking at this, it just tells you the time he was keyed out. I don’t know if he was picked up earlier and already taken to the courthouse, then he was keyed out, pre-removed after, I couldn’t - I can’t answer that. I don’t know. It’s not - I can’t answer that. MR. a: Now thinking back about the possibility that you were working in R&D that day -- Ms. QJ: 9 uh-huh. MR. a: -- do you recall if he was EFTA00115214

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) J uw removed or not that day and what time he was removed? I don’t recall. I just know that when they talked about the inmate, they brought up the inmate and that’ know, we realized, to when, you “Oh, that was the guy that went to court and didn’t come back.” found or accessed? MR. institution. Where can the daily log be SENTRY. And who would have access to Mainly everybody in the Everyone can access it. Can 7] everyone make the changes on it? this. No, you can’t make changes on Who can make changes on that? You cannot make changes to So, that is basically the keyed in information. EFTA00115215

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE uw o This is like a tracker. 3 MS It just shows you all the 4 moves and when it was moved - when the person 5 was moved. So this, you cannot just change. 6 Only thing you can do is put in what you want. 7 It’s just a log, it just pulls up a log. co i its] RB n n Oo ct a bh U a n 5 o rt Okay. nothing you 11 MR. a: What about the Lieutenant’s 2 log? Who would have access to that? ive) MS. The Lieutenants. Does anyone else have access? t wi mn t oO Fs Maybe the Captain. ed Where can it be acces fa 7 from? 8 MS The Lieutenant’s office. 9 MR Can it be accessed from 20 Control I don’t know about now, but No N wu rt rt a wu rt time, 5 No ion) id Okay. Do you recall if you 24 reviewed the daily log that day? 25 MS. No, I don’t remember. EFTA00115216

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 59 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a: And based on that, it shows inmate Reyes is pre-remove. As per your understanding, that means that he left the institution and he’s not coming back. MS. Right. MR. Okay. Do you utilize the daily log as part of your job every day? MS. Yes. MR. And how do you utilize it? MS. To make sure I key the inmate out that’s out of the institution. So account for how many inmates I keyed out. That’s what I use it for in R&D. MR. QJ: Okay. And you're not sure what shift you worked but you believe that you worked in R&D between 8:00 and 4:00 or 12:00 and 8:00? MS. a: 8:00 to 4:00 or maybe - I was only working two shifts at that time. I’m doing 12:00 to 8:00 now. But it might have been 8:00 to 4:00 or 2:00 to 10:00. One of those two hours. Between those two shifts. MR. Okay. MS. a: Because at one point, I only strictly worked the evening shift, so. EFTA00115217

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 60 w ~] wo 10 11 MR. a: When inmates leave through R&D, do you normally see them leaving through MS. QR: 9 Yes. MR. a: Do you recall having a conversation with Reyes at all? MS. a: I couldn’t tell you if I spoke to that man or not. I speak to so many inmates, I don’t know. MR. a: Well, the better question is, if you (Indiscernible *00:48:06) -. MS. aa: I couldn’t even tell you what he looks like. MR. a: That’s my next question. So you wouldn’t happen to know who Reyes - what -. MS. a: I would only know who he is by ID-ing him, his name and his number and his ID card when he comes on down. MR. QJ: 9 Okay. MS. QEBNNMJ: 9 There’s so many inmates in here. I don’t know. MR. a: Now when did you become aware of Reyes being moved from the MCC? Officially become aware. MS. a: I think when he spoke about - EFTA00115218

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 61 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 when they - when it was, you know, rumored that the inmate, “Oh, they put him in a cell by himself,” and when I heard about that, you know, it was like, “Oh, well, no, his actual, his bunkie just didn’t come back from court.” MR. a: When did you hear about this? Was it the same day? Was it in the evening? MS. QJ: No, it was around the time of when all the commotion was going on after his passing. MR. a: So this is the next day. MS. a: Pretty much, yeah. MR. a : Do you recall if there was any conversation in regards to -. MR. a : What is the day of his passing, the day after August 9th I think is what you mean. Is that what you mean? MS. a: No, like, during the time he passed, you know. You know, a lot of people were saying, speculating though, he was a suicidal person, he was placed in a cell by himself and that’s when, you know, it was like, “No, well, he did have a bunkie.” His cell mate went out to court and that’s when we all became aware of, you know, who his cell mate EFTA00115219

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 62 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 was. MR. a : And what conversations were had with regards to the cell mate and leaving for court and not coming back at that time? MS. a: I don’t think anyone was pretty much aware that that was his cell mate that didn’t come back, so I don’t - it was just that the conversation was, “Oh, he was placed in a cell by himself,” That was what was speculated. MR. a : Now, working in R&D, when inmates do not come back from court, does R&D then notify custody that these people didn’t come back? How does that work? MS. a: The Control Center tracks who got keyed out. The Lieutenant, they’1l track who got keyed out and that’s primarily it. MR. Ee : So R&D never contacts either Control or the Housing Unit or the Lieutenant saying, “Hey, these are people that went out and these are people that came back. These people are not coming back.” MS. : No. MR. : So R&D would not have EFTA00115220

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 63 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 notified, for instance, the SHU Saying Reyes didn’t come back? MS. a: They would be - not unless they called us to say they had a bad count or they had a miscount or something or maybe the inmate left to court and didn’t come back, but no. MR. a : Okay. Because they - a lot of people have told us they usually get calls from R&D saying, “Hey, this guy didn’t come back.” That’s -. MS. a: There are times that we do - like if an inmate has property upstairs, we might say, “Hey, inmate so and so is not coming back, pack up his property.” MR. Ee : Okay. MS. a: There have been times, yes. MR. a : But in this case, with him being pre-removed, there would have been no notification that would have been made by R&D saying, “He didn’t come back?” MS. a : Not if we didn’t need to, no. MR. a : No? So it would only be a need be basis, not - because a lot of them were saying, like, “Hey, he was pre-removed but EFTA00115221

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 64 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 we don’t know if he’s actually, you know, definitely removed and not coming back until about 4:00 p.m. MS. a : Right. That is true. And not even 4:00 p.m. because there are times that the judges, the courts are late. Some inmates don’t come back until 7:00, 8 o’clock at night. MR. QM: Well, they did clarify that. They said, “Usually until 4:00 p.m. and as late as 8:00 p.m.” MS. a : Right. MR. a : But in those instances though, R&D doesn’t contact whomever and say, “Hey, this guy didn’t come back.” Or is it -. MS. a: The only people that would keep track of that would be the Control Center and the Lieutenant’s office. MR. a : Okay, so -. MS. a : You know, we key them out and whatever we key out, we send down to the Control Center so the Control Center has a copy of who was keyed out and they kind of go in the system and check and see if the inmates were keyed out. It’s like a checks and balance for the institution because you might have an EFTA00115222

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 65 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 inmate on the list showing that he left, but he’s not keyed out of the system. So there’s supposed to be like a checks and balance for us upstairs as well. MR. a : Okay. So, when people argue that they didn’t know that Reyes wasn’t definitely coming back, how do they determine and at what point do they determine, “He’s not back, Epstein needs a new cell mate?” MS. a: If they don’t know he needs a cell mate, nobody would know, nobody would -. MR. a : But if they know he needs a cell mate, at what point do they say, “Yeah, Reyes isn’t back, we need to get him a new cell mate?” MS. a: I couldn’t tell you because you don’t know if that inmate - if you don’t know that inmate is coming back, you don’t know to say, “Hey, so and so needs a cell mate.” And if you don’t know, you just don’t know. MR. a : Okay. So, at what point should Control then at some point though call the SHU And say, “Reyes isn’t coming back?” MS. a: If the count is not bad, they wouldn’t know to call them and say - they EFTA00115223

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 66 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 wouldn’t say that, no. MR. a : So the SHU very well may never have been contacted or would have been contacted saying, “Reyes isn’t coming back, consider him gone.” MS. a: Correct. MR. es : Okay. So they would have only known that based upon doing rounds and counts is what you’re saying? MS. a: Right. But if they don’t know that he needs a cell mate, because I don’t believe there was any notification that another individual had to be placed in a cell with him so, nobody would know that. Even if you are making rounds and counting your unit, you wouldn’t know that we need - if there’s no notification. MR. a : Well, notifications were made and the people are saying that they passed it along to other shifts saying, “Yes, he’s required to have a cell mate.” However, they’re saying, “Reyes is gone, possibly not returning. Make sure you get him a bunkie if he doesn’t.” So it’s kind of like, at what point does it determine -- EFTA00115224

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 67 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 MR. a : -- when is Reyes not getting a bunkie - when is Reyes not coming home, coming back. MS. QJ: §9Right. MR. a : We’ve also been told by a number of people though, they say, “R&D would call us to say, ‘Yeah, Reyes isn’t coming back,’” but to you, you’re saying, “No, that doesn’t happen. We don’t call SHU, we wouldn’t have called them to say Reyes -.” MS. aa: It’s a possibility we could have called, but then sometimes we don’t call. You know, if there’s a miscount, there would be no reason for us to call, we would just key the inmate out. Sometimes they’1ll call us back and say, “Hey, inmate so and so went out to court, is he coming back?” Some units will call us and ask. MR. QJ: Sos they’11 call you rather than the other way around. MS. a: Sometimes they’1ll call us, MR. QJ: 411 xight. MS. a: But the only way they’1l know EFTA00115225

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 68 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that the inmate might - and then, because of the shift change, you might have an officer from these specific set of hours and then now you have a new officer coming in at these specific set of hours. They won’t know who went out to court unless they read their court list or they look at their log, they probably wouldn’t know. And if they’re doing a count and their count is what it’s supposed to be, they won’t know. MR. a : So you’re a very unique person that we’re talking to as both - has both sets of knowledge with the fact that you’ve worked with custody as well as non-custody and you know how these things work when people are removed. If the people in the SHU knew, and let’s say, let’s just for this example, say everybody in the SHU knows -- MS. QJ: 9 Uh-huh. MR. a : -- that Epstein is required to have a cell mate. Reyes leaves at 8:30, he has a pre-removal. At what time do you believe they should have reassigned a new cell mate to Epstein? MS. a: Well, if they knew that he EFTA00115226

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 6 \o 1 was a pre-removal, then they would be trying to oO 2 work on that immediately as soon as possible. ies) id 18) } Fh | 4 MS. a: But that’s if they knew. So if they knew, let’s wi aw a: And if that was what was Les] a] o nei G Pp. ia] o o oO a Let’s say the OIC 10 absolutely knows he’s WAB likely -- to return. 2 3 4 believe that he 5 she immedia then started working on 16 a new cell mate? 7 MS. a: He would notify the Lieutenant ” know, “Hey, move -” - that’s what he would do - co 20 MR. QJ: nc if -. 21 MS. a: -- if that was what was 23 MR. a : So and if their ay the Lieutenants and the let’s 7) No wu RR o 25 arguing, “That’s premature, he could alwa EFTA00115227

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w co ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE return. So we “” that the saying -. MS. don’t know I don’t know. But wu ct to the next shift , it is premature if you fi pe. n not coming back. case though, if @ 7) rt i) still premature? is WAB, but looking No, no, no. “Yeah, he was WAB, he a all of hi a: ae : he had stuf 7) MS. Uh-h MR. let’s still think it’s prema it’s appropriate? No, had h brown paper f." nuh. And so think of that point, do you ture or you think at time if it was - okay. If it EFTA00115228

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 71 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 was known that this inmate was leaving and he wasn’t coming back and if it was known that this individual needed to have someone else in the cell with him, then yes, at that time, it would be required to replace or move him in a cell with somebody else. So, yeah. MR. es : So when you’re saying “known” though, so, I mean, known that he’s WAB, so does that -. MS. a: Known that he’s WAB and also known that this individual requires a cell mate at all time, cannot be housed alone. Now, there are some inmates that have to rec in cell alone and there are signs on their doors and there are some inmates that might be required to have a cell mate. But if there’s no notification, and I work a unit and this is not my normal unit and I’m working this unit and I’m just filling in here and there and I’m working and I don’t know and there’s nothing placed on the walls that state that or on this inmate’s - on the door or maybe on my clipboard, I wouldn’t know that. MR. a : No, no, no. So what I’m saying, and I’m not talking about - I think EFTA00115229

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 72 w ~] you’re probably specifically talking about like Tova and Michael Thomas. I’m talking about in the morning at 8:38 a.m., prior to that time -- MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. MR. a : -- they get a court list, WAB, the OIC says, “Yeah, he’s WAB, he’s likely not to return, he’s got his bag, you know, I’m taking him down, I’m giving him off.” I know, he says, “I know Epstein is required to have a cell mate.” MS. a: Oh, well, if he knows it. MR. a : But, is it a legitimate argument in your opinion to say, “Placing Epstein with a new cell mate is premature because Reyes could return.” Is that a valid argument? MS. a: Well, based on what you just said, knowing -- MR. Ee : With WAB and with knowing MS. a: -- knowing -- MR. ae : -- Epstein requires, 19) ! | ct hat he’s WAB, that would not be premature because he’s leaving. EFTA00115230

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ] w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 MR. QJ: | Right. MS. a: Now, if for some reason it gets canceled and they say, “Hey, we’re not moving this inmate, we’re going to move him at a later time,” because those things do happen. His trip - he got canceled. But knowing that he’s going to be leaving, I don’t think that that would be premature, no. MR. a : So if he leaves in the morning and the OIC shift ends a wu cr o Wo @ ct i) od p-m., does that - is there -- Ms. BJ: 4:00. MR. a : -- would he know that that trip got canceled? guess the way I would be asking, he knows the guy left at 8:38 WAB and, I guess, by that time, I would think ios) by 2:00 p.m., if a trip got canceled they would know, correct? would have went back upstairs. MS. a: He would have went back to Yeah, because the inmate Right. So -- the unit. MR. a : -- how often do inmates that go WAB and their trips don’t get canceled, EFTA00115231

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ~] wo 10 11 how often do those inmates actually return? MS. a: Oh, they go upstairs immediately. MR. a : No, no, no. So I’m saying, if Reyes is listed as WAB and he left at 8:30 in the morning, his trip didn’t get canceled by 2:00 p.m. because he never came back upstairs. How often do the WAB inmates actually come back to the institution? MS. a: It has happened with inmates going on an airlift. The Marshals take inmates all the way out of the institution and then have to bring them all the way back. It has happened. MS. a: On occasion. MR. QJ: | -- out of 100 -- MS. a: I’ll say -. MS. QJ: 91/11 say about, if I had to WABs. count, maybe about - it’s happened, it’s happened. MR. a : But I mean, does it happen like very random and seldomly or does it happen like, ah, one out of five times this EFTA00115232

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 75 1 happens? Or are we talking about like one out 2 100 or one of 1,000? ies) un w a ‘ll say maybe like 10 out of A 100 4 iV. So about 10 percent of 6 the time it does happen? 7 MS. a: It has happened, yep. © ER n ts @ ue] 11 time? All right. 2 happened. 3 then -. 4 MS. a: It might be something with 5 the airlift, the paperwork is not right. So then -- 7 MSs. a: The airlift -. -- with keeping that in t oO a Lee) 5 9 mind that 10 percent of the time that has 20 happened, then do you believe that is slightly 21 a valid argument to say, we know that he 22 needs a new cell mate but we don’t think it’s 23 appropriate to do it in this shift, it should 24 be done on the next shift when we verify he’s 25 in fact not coming back.” EFTA00115233

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE fon) h. I would say that is m fu I appropriate. MS. a: Because you don’t know. You -hing is subject to he ust don’t know. u- i) cha So I would say that is appropriate. 5 1g MR. Now it’s different with, yo Now we’re talking about pr © A. MS. a: -- could be pre-remov MR. a : But what I’m saying is -- the o MR. a : Nothing to do with to court WAB actually return? EFTA00115234

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 77 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) in 100? MS. a: Maybe one in 100 that might have came back, but most of the time they go. MR. a : So even one in 100 is like, yeah, no, they’re pretty much always gone? MS. a: Yeah. MR. a : So then that argument of MS. a: It got to be something drastic that they might have come back, but most of the time they go. MR. a : So that argument that we needed to wait until verification, that really doesn’t hold weight then if they know he was going to court WAB. MS. a: If they know he w court WAB, yeah. MR. Ee : Then the argument doesn’t hold weight? wu Ss going to MS. a: It’s a catch 22 because I’ve seen so many things that have happened that you might think somebody is gone and they bring him back. MR. a : Sure. But it sounds like EFTA00115235

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 78 w ~] wo 10 11 MS. a: He might get on that side and something might come up in his paperwork where they’re like, “Uh-oh, we got a new case, we got a new charge. Oh, we’re not transferring him. We got to sort this out.” I mean, it has happened where somebody has come back to the jail, but most of the time, they do go. MR. a : And it sounds like that’s extremely rare -- MR. a : -- circumstance. MS. a: Uh-huh. MR. QM: 4.11 right. Ms. QJ: 9 yeah. MR. a: So at that point, do you think that they should have taken action immediately if they knew it was WAB? MR. Ee : WAB going to court. MR. MJ: §9Going to court. Knowing the fact that Epstein needed a cell mate. We know Reyes left, Epstein needed a cell mate. The OIC and the SHU officers knew that he needed a cell mate. Should they have taken action immediately? EFTA00115236

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED w ~] ive) OFFICIAL USE ~) wo MS. a: Maybe they should have notified their supervisor. MR. a: Who would they have notified if this -. MS. a: The SHU Lieutenant and let them know that, “Hey -.” MR. QM: (indiscernible *01:03:51) no SHU Lieutenant (Indiscernible *01:03:52). Should it be the Ops Lieutenant (Indiscernible *01:03:55) Lieutenant? MS. QJ: The op Lieutenant notify, “Hey, we got bunk inmate so or the Acting fo up with so and so, he can’t be housed by himself.” MR. QJ: okay. MS. QJ: But, like I said, communication around here is not at its best. MR. QJ: | ub-boun. MS. a: So what should have happened, what should have taken place, might not necessarily happen because everybody doesn’t know everything that’s going on around here. MR. QR: an. MS. a: Everybody does not communicate the way that they should, so you EFTA00115237

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 80 1 might know it, but just because you know it, 2 you might assume I know it and we’re working 3 together. Not necessarily true. 4 MR. a : Sure off of what people tell us directly -- aa: Right. 7 MR. a : Like, “Did you know a And yeah, we would w oO =] bP het QQ Oo oO Les] ct sr pe i) ? “Yes, I knew it.” “Okay.” a: Right. 10 MR. a : You know, so -. a: Because it’s not - like, if I © n 2 was working up there, that’s not my normal 3 unit. If I was working up there, I would not 4 know that. 15 MR. QJ: Right. 16 MS. a: You know, if I’m coming from 7 another department and that’s not my steady 8 post, I would not know that 9 MR Ee : Absolutely. 20 MS. EBNNMJ: 9 So, what should happen -. 21 MR. ae : Yeah, and that’s why 22 we're listing people like OIC, SHU Lieutenant, 23 Ops Lieutenant, Activities Lieutenant, these 24 people that -. 25 MS. a: Or maybe Psychology. EFTA00115238

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 81 1 MR. QJ: | Right. 2 MS. a: You know, so it’s hard to say 3 yes and no, but if, you know, someone knew, 4 then yes. But everybody that works in this 5 institution, we’re all over the place 6 sometimes. We don’t know, we don’t know 7 everything about every unit. So that’s the 8 unfortunate part. 9 MR. a : Do you recall anyone calling 10 R&D looking for the status of Reyes that day? 11 MS. a: I don’t remember, no. I’m 2 not going - I don’t remember that, no. 3 MR a : What was your question? 4 MS. a: Did she recall anyone from 15 the SHU calling inquiring the status of Reyes 16 that day. 7 MR. QJ: 411 right. 8 MR. a : Do you have anything else on 9 that topic before -. 20 MR. QJ: 1 don’t think so, we kind 21 of beat it. 22 MR. a: Now, you worked Control 23 August 10th night? 25 MR. QJ: 9 As a co in Control, when EFTA00115239

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE B82 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 would you be notified that an inmate is being removed? MS. : When would I be notified -- : Yeah. : Yeah, if you’re working in Control. 7 7 MS. a : -- that an inmate is being 7 7 MS. : Well, that would be -. & a : Well, she just said R&D doesn’t call them to tell them. MS. a: No, we give them - we send them paperwork. So, you have a Control two number person in the Control Center that verifies our key out moves against our paperwork we send them. So this is what the Control Center would use as well to track -- MR. a: A daily log? MS. a : -- to track the moves and make sure that these individuals are keyed out. So, now as a Control Center Officer, you might call as the number two, I mean, I said the number one because the number two person does it. The number two person, which is an accounts and assignment person, they would call EFTA00115240

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 83 1 2 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - this is primarily on day watch and evening watch because there’s no movement on morning watch, not unless it’s an emergency, but you’re not moving nobody on morning watch. So on day watch and evening watch, if you see that inmates were moved around or a counselor calls you in Control and say, “Hey, I’m moving inmate so and so from this unit to this unit,” then as a Control Center Officer, what I would do, I’m not going to say what everybody else would do, I would call over the radio, “Hey, unit officers, if you lost an inmate or you gained an inmate, call Control and verify your base count.” And I would say - they would say, “Oh, inmate so and so left and I have 87.” Or, they might give me a wrong count. I’m like, “No, that’s bad, you need to check your base count, verify who left the unit.” But that’s what I would do. But most often times, the Control Center Officer would look at this and see who’s moved and verify it with an E-1 and make sure everything is accurate. MR. QR: «So once they are notified, what would the Control Officer update that you wanted? EFTA00115241

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE B4 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. a: We have what we call the running board. So, with a running board, you have the starting base of one unit and then the ending base of the unit. So if an inmate went out to the hospital, might have been 86, he went out to hospital, 87, he came - I mean, 85, he came back now, his base is back to 86. So, it would be -. MR. BMJ: Nothing like this. This is the -- MS. a : Uh-huh. Yeah. MR. a: This is the E-1 document, is this what you’re talking about? MS. QJ: uh-huh. No, that’s an E-1, I’m talking about a running board. It’s just a dummy document we create just to track all the moves to like a paper to just verify the counts MR. a: Okay. MS. a: -- basically checks and balance. So like, if I see that this inmate was moved from five, he was pre-remove, and that unit count was 85, I would just write, “Inmate pre-removed,” and I would have a paper log of what that unit count should be. EFTA00115242

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 85 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a: Okay. MS. a: Because even my paper log might be accurate but my computer log might be wrong because this person might not have keyed the inmate out. MR. a: So, let’s talk about that. Has there been situations where inmates get moved around and not get keyed out? MS. a : Yeah. That has happened. MR. a: How does that happen? Isn’t there balance and checks to make sure that nothing like that happens? MS. a : There are supposed to be balance and checks, yes. But sometimes people move inmates and they fail to report to maybe the officer or they fail to notify the Control, “I’m moving inmate from this unit to this unit,” or something might happen on a unit, an inmate might get locked up and you’re in the Control Center, you know, you’re doing whatever you hear, an emergency on a unit, you don’t know what’s going on, you don’t know if the inmate is going out to the hospital until somebody actually physically calls you and say, “Hey, I’ve got an inmate that’s (Indiscernible EFTA00115243

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE B86 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 *01:10:14),” if you’re not looking at the camera, you see them moving this inmate from this unit and walking him into SHU and you’ll call that unit, “Hey, you got one locked - who got locked up?” You might call the Unit Officer and ask those questions. So, it has happened. MR. QR: 9 Whose responsibility would it be if they’re moving an inmate, to key it in? MS. a: To key it in? Depending on what type of move it is. If it’s a unit to unit move, that would be the Unit Management, Unit Team. If an inmate is getting locked up from the unit and going to SHU, the Control Center Officer might move that unit, move that inmate from the unit to SHU or SHU might key that inmate into SHU. So, I just depends who does it. MR. a: So, and it can be one of those things that in a situation, let’s say an inmate gets moved. The SHU Officer can be like, “Ah, no Control will do it.” And Control Lieutenant will be like, “No, the SHU will do it.” Is it one person that’s actually responsible to make sure that it gets keyed in? EFTA00115244

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 87 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. a: Well, a lot of times things happen. Like I said, around here, you might have a Lieutenant go to a unit and then walk an inmate out and the inmate gets locked up. Or you might have an inmate that’s suicidal and he gets placed on suicide watch so now he’s not in the unit, he’s in suicide watch. Or you might have an inmate that was taken off of suicide watch, might be put in a housing unit or SHU, you don’t know unless somebody notifies you because when you’re in the Control, you’re answering phones, you’re looking at a keypad, you might be looking up and down but you’re not constantly on the camera so you won’t know unless somebody actually notifies you and say, “Hey, we’re moving inmate so and so.” So, a lot of times, you just have to - if you got an inmate that you received a new inmate, call Control, verify your base because you won’t always know everything. MR. a: So you’re saying it should have been on the SHU Officer to make sure that, “Hey, listen, this inmate is being moved.” Did she even notify Control, “Hey, listen.” MS. a: If the officer of a unit EFTA00115245

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 88 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 knows that his inmate got locked up, he’s supposed to be calling Control saying, “I’ve got an inmate that’s locked up, he went to SHU.” SHU now needs to be calling Control, “Hey, I got one, so and so on my base count.” Everybody is supposed to be calling. MR. a : Okay. MS. a: Everybody should be calling, not just -. MR. a : But you did just say though that they - like for instance, SHU. SHU can call Control and say, “Hey, I just want to verify my base, what do you got?” MS. QJ: 9=No, they wouldn’t say, “I want to verify my base, what do you got?” You would say, “I want to verify my base, I have 87.” And then Control would say, “No, that’s good, no, that’s bad.” MR. QJ: Okay. MS. a: So now, as the officer, what I would do, I would go around counting my inmates in my unit and I would look at my roster and see who went out to court. But that’s what I would do. EFTA00115246

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. a: I can’t say what everybody else would do. oo ite) ies) a Yeah, no, and trust me, 4 we've talked to a lot of people and everybody 5 does things differently. 6 Yes. So. 7 MR. a : That’s why we’re trying 8 to figure out -- 9 MS. a: I like knowing -- 10 MR a : -- should they -. a: -- what I need to know on my 2 unit. I’m just nosy like that. Ww 5 K © io hg © wu J 4 MS. a: So, I want to know what’s 15 going on, who is in my unit, who is coming out 16 of my unit, you know, so, I’m verifying my J n rt hh uff on my own. MR. a : Okay. No, that’s a good co 3 9 way to do it. So, are you aware of though 20 anybody calling, for instance, Control and 21 getting control? Somehow, however crafty that 22 they use their wordings to actually give them 23 the base count? 24 a: I’ve never heard. EFTA00115247

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 90 1 MS. a: Not that I know of. Not that I know of. I’m not going to say it hasn’t ies) happened, but I don’t know. I’m going to show you some w a 6 documents. Before that, any document that I 7 show you, I’m going to ask you to initial and 8 date on top. 9 ms. QJ: 9 uh-huh. 10 MR | You’re not attesting to it, 11 it’s just to show that that’s a document that 2 we -- 3 MS a: Okay 4 MR a: -- showed you. 15 MS a: Right here? 16 MR ae: Yeah. Just anywhere on top 7 is fine. 7/15/21. 8 MS. a: I want to work with you guys. 9 MR. Ee : Well, it sounds like you 20 got the qualification with those degrees And 21 with the knowledge, we do a ton of BOP stuff. 22 MR a: This one too. Just the top. 23 MS. a: It’s got to be off the 24 record. 25 MR | So, are you familiar with the EFTA00115248

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 91 1 E-1ls? Control documents? The first one that 2 I’m going to show you is this would be for 3 August 9th at 5:00 a.m. Uh-huh. w a Right? This is the E-1 6 document controlling - Control document. The 7 SHU shows 77 inmates. 8 MS. QJ: «9 uh-huh. 9 MR. a : Now, I’m going to show you 10 the daily log. Are you aware of the 11 Lieutenant’s log? 2 Ms. QJ: 9 uh-huh. 3 MR a: Inmate movements? 4 MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. 15 MR. QJ: «okay. Now this is the day 16 watch, document is the day watch Lieutenant’s 7 log for August 9th. We can start off, we’ll 8 look at the inmate movements, it shows that -. You need to start at wo 5 23 MR. QJ: 9 So, it says 77 at the 5:00 EFTA00115249

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w fos) ive) oO oo OFFICIAL USE MR. count at MS. MR. (Indiscerni MS. MR. so, where It matche it Gc ue Uh-huh. Uh-huh. The count ” rnandez.” Wait Uh-huh. -- confusion Placed on dry So let’ Yeah. (Indiscernible at 77, when comes a minute. Placed own dry on 7 did the with Pre-remove? down to -- cell. that. cell from s look at *01:15:58) five in EFTA00115250

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE wo ot) understand, where is the dry cell? MS. I thought it was in SHU. MR. ae : Okay. So let’s look at the ement up here. On to it says, imate ement up here ie) op i a “Inm i Fernandez on dry cell with staff watch and MR. m7 a : a: m7 ma MR. MR. So at this point, inmate Fernandez is removed and the to -- Okay. Now we’re looking at p.m. count for August 9th. Fa ue] 3 MS. EFTA00115251

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 94 1 MR. QJ: «Right. It shows 76 -- 2 MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. WwW 5 1 i ifs] 0 wu RR a q ss te] a o 2 7] 7 ts] 4 removed, right? Reye 5 sitting in attorney conference? 6 aa: Uh-huh. Yes, that’s right 8 MR. a: Right here? And inmate Fernandez is removed. wo i=) h. Uh- But it still shows 75. It should have been 74. i) ive) Hi Uh-huh. This is - they got oO This is 4 o’clock. Did they s something? And this is removed inmate. 7 MR. ae : Keep on showing her the t oO a Les] o rt a oO K 2) 5 oO ct Dy 12] c Q 7 I I wo a3 K o wu J 20 MR. Ee : -- because that’s not 22 MR. a: Give me Fernando’s. 23 MR. a : -- that’s not really that 24 eye opening because that’s 3:15 to 4:00. Now 25 show her the 10:00 p.m. and the midnight count. EFTA00115252

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE fe] wi 1 MR. a: The next one is over here rt 2 too, there’s some inmates that moved in and ies) out. Now let’s go to the 10:00 p.m. count. 4 MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. 5 MR. a : And go over the inmates 6 that - so you can follow the numbers. 7 MR. a : So just look at -. Pull my chair closer so I can co th Ks] n o @ ct 7 wu ct 10 MR. a: Yeah. Is that better? feah. 2 MR. ae: Now, this is the evening 3 watch document. The other sheet now if you 4 start looking at inmate Hemmingway, 6:34 p.m., 15 he’s removed from the SHU, goes to ES. 16 MS. J: 9 uh-huh. 7 MR. a: Right? And the next one is 8 inmate Reed gets moved from ZA to GS. 9 MS. QJ: 9 Uh-huh. 20 MR. EJ: 9 So, now we lost two more 21 inmates, that’s 73. 22 MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. 23 MR. a: Then we gain two inmates, the 24 SHU gains two inmates, 8:21, Felix and Williams 25 from ZA to suicide watch in the SHU. EFTA00115253

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ite] nn 3 MS. Wait a minute. From ZA -- 4 MR. Sorry, sorry. 5 MS. No, so he came from SHU. 6 MR. From SHU to suicide watch, so now we are down to 71. 8 MS. Uh-huh. Right? And then, we have oO a a Wait, I’m sorry. Hold on. 2 This is 70, that’s one, that’s another one, 3 (Indiscernible *01:18:24), okay, that’s R&D. 4 One, two - okay, I 2e why it’s two. Okay, 5 that’s two, right? t oO Fs Les] H n fe) B tt w rt F oO K oO wu x That’s two. And then, you suicide watch, wo a] p Q ey a see one inmate 21 was gained -- 22 MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. 23 MR. a: -- Garcia Penas (Phonetic Sp. 24 *01:18:37) m ved over. fe) EFTA00115254

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. a: I’m going to show you the 10:00 p.m. count. w ~ WwW 7 a a | om i a The 10:00 p.m. count on the w @ | b . a] r AQ ie} o u ct J wu rt un ioe ie} z oO 7 MR. a : Okay. On the last couple of co pages, can you find the one for ZA? ZA would wo be the SHU, right, the count slip? i=) t wi a Ww id wo G ct —~] Wo w rt What does that plus one mean? t oO i mebody was 7 there, plus one. So it’s somebody that’s there 8 but he’s, guess he’s not accounted for but 9 he’s there. 20 MR. QJ: 9 But can you, by looking at 21 this document, can you figure out who that is? 22 MR. ae : So does that mean, what 23 you’re saying is 73 plus one is actually 74 24 that they’re thinking that’s in there? 25 MS. a: Uh-huh. Not unless - well, EFTA00115255

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE wo oo 1 normally what it is, is -. Ww ct . fy rt ct . ay rt Q ri i) n rt c 2) =] just show her the other 4 thing so that she’s not going to try to figure a w ct 7 pe n o co ct oO fu a yr = a] hh jor iT) o t a oO H a] fii) o K w oO engineer « 6 it. 7 y 8 And then explain to her 9 what 2n let her answer those 10 questions 1 MR. a: I’m going to show you the 2 12:00 p.m. count too. This is 12:00 a.m. 3 ) ive) count, there’s August 10th -- nt. Now, were time? t a het i) c = oO K ~ b 5 Q p. a 2) Oo =] rt iad Oo ra fw ct Les] kK fe) c n fu b 2. ct : D | | 21 actually took the count, but 22 at that time. 23 MR. a: Do you recall that at all? 24 MS. a: I don’t remember at the 25 moment, but I know I worked in Control that EFTA00115256

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w fos) wo ioe) fee) OFFICIAL USE 99 took that count? 12:00 a.m. in Control, MS. J: 9 un-huh. MR. a: You’ re MR. a : So by looking at that, jou tell who it was that took the count? Signature. That might MS. a: -- the person that prepared munt. We’ll just let you - EFTA00115257

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 100 the count. MS. M a present count? I was pr numbers verse what All right. Now show her MR. Huh-uh. id wh wr is) Cc wm oO oO pw Do you mentioning the fact that there was a cy in the Do you recall her -. Because I didn’t prepare the ’ count, so, I didn’t - if I’m the Control Officer, I’m Control one, so my se EFTA00115258

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 101 w ~] wo 10 11 the one that’s preparing the counts and taking the counts and viewing the count slips with the Lieutenant is not there. I’m in charge of the radios, they keys, you know, like a count and making sure that all my equipment is accounted for, letting staff know, “Hey, we’re on duty.” We got to do a pre-announcement and going over equipment and stuff, all those type of things, so no, I didn’t - I wouldn’t be aware of this if I didn’t prepare it, no. MR. a : So what happened? Was a - figured out - and this is where we were hoping you can help us a little bit. And she figured out that Fernandez, who was placed on dry cell at 3:15, was never keyed out of the SHU. MR. a : However, they’re still reporting - because he was never keyed out, they’ re still reporting 73, 73, 73 -- Ms. QJ: 9 uh-huh. MR. ae : -- although there’s only 72 inmates in the SHU. MS. a: Uh-huh. MR. a: i somehow EFTA00115259

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 102 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) figures out, you guys don’t have 73, you’ve got 72 and then either she or someone in Control or whomever, keys him out. MS. a: Uh-huh. MR. a : And so what we want to know is do you remember that happening or the circumstances around that? MS. BJ: No. MR. a : No, you don’t? Does this tell you anything about if these counts were conducted? The 4:00 p.m. and the 10:00 p.m. and the 12:00 a.m.? MS. a: This just shows that this was conducted. MR. a : No, not the E-ls, the counts in the SHU. MR. a: Count slips. If the counts were wrong. MR. Ee : So all of them are saying 79 3 all though there’s only 72 people. Fernandez leaves at 3:15. So knowing that you work in SHU, you work in R&D -- MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. MR. a : -- and also you can look at the -. EFTA00115260

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 103 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Ms. QJ: well -. MR. a : So these R&D slips show that there’s one person in there. MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. MR. a : Although - MS. aa: This is 9 -. MR. a : Nine south. MR. a: So what does that mean? So R&D, so on this here, the midnight one, right? MR. a : And also, just please take note of the checks that are all over them. There’s no checks on these two. So, and that’s the 10:00 p.m. we’re looking at. So, we’re just trying to piece this thing together. MS. a: Normally, I’m just going to, for my experience, when I’ve had to plus a one, it’s because it’s a WITSEC inmate that we could not key in because only certain individuals have the authority and capacity to key those individuals in. So, if I got an inmate in SHU that’s a WITSEC and staff can’t key him in until maybe the Unit Manager of the WITSEC Unit comes in and keys him in or whatever unit team of the WITSEC Unit, we would plus that one because that would show that that’s the body EFTA00115261

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 104 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that’s there that we cannot account for but he’s there. That would have - I don’t know what this is. MR. a : Do you recognize whose handwriting that is? The 9S plus one? MS. a: No. MR. a : Okay. MR. a : Do you know if it’s yours by chance? Ms. QJ: =No, that’s -. MR. a : Definitely not yours? My assumption is that was written at midnight, but we still can’t figure it out. That’s what we’re still trying to figure out. We would have thought that the plus one stuff would have happened at the 10:00 p.m. count since we believe that that’s when Reyes was keyed in. he was keyed in on the 10th for the 93th because - not Reyes, I’m sorry, Fernandez. MS. a: Normally, when a Lieutenant checks off the slips, it’s because they’ re verifying that it’s the unit, it’s the accurate count, it’s the accurate date, time and staff signature print of two staff members. That’s normally how Lieutenant would mark off a count EFTA00115262

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 105 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 slip to verify that -. MR. a: I want to show - so does -. MR. a : Is that telling to you at all that the fact that these aren’t checked off? MS. aa: I don’t know why they aren’t checked off. I couldn’t tell you why, I don’t know. MR. a : But those plus ones, aside from possibly a WITSEC type of thing, would that make sense with whether it would be a plus one on R&D and a plus one though on ZA? MS. a : Minus - not unless there - the only thing I can gather is that they’re saying that this plus one is the inmate that’s still keyed to SHU but is sitting in R&D. That’s the only thing -. MR. QJ: ang that would be my assumption too. IS that they’re saying there’s 73 bodies in SHU plus one who’s actually in R&D. MR. : But that 73 is still off so I guess what the question would be is, the fact that they’re using the number that Control EFTA00115263

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w fos) ive) oO oo OFFICIAL USE has, housing unit. MS. MR. MS. MR. August 10th. MS. although they 106 only have 72 in their actual Can I just -- the midnight one. now you had gave me - There’s the August 10th didn’t show But I No, you showed me something with Lieutenant a. MR. MS. one -- EFTA00115264

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 107 -- but this is evening watch. Oh, okay. ies) i n 177) This -. Oh, that’s the same. Okay 5 MR Yeah So - 6 All right I just want to - 8 night. wo MR. : You sure, you’re gettin Q i} D i=) awful close. t R Fs H 3 Oo io wu het Cc =] BP 0) OF) i a) > o ri) nw k 1) 4 ie) =) 1) i] jen I rt ive) Fs) Would you like a piece? 79 4 MS. a: Okay, so his ending was 72 5 and he has this guy up here and this is 10 c oO 5) ~ QO be Oo ie] ee i) ) Bp A f wo So you want the 10:00 p.m. Les] Qo 18) c =] rt oO 1a) K oO fu J 10:00 p.m. count. Okay. So this is the 10 22 o’clock count. Okay, so, he’s not keyed into 23 R&D. So, this is where your plus one is. So 24 he’s still showing in Special Housing but he’s 25 in R&D during the 10 o’clock count. So this is EFTA00115265

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED w ~] ive) OFFICIAL USE what makes your 73. This is the 10 o’clock? MR. a : But is that also weird though that this count cleared with an R&D 108 slip. R&D 1 that’s never checked off. There’s nothing on the E-1 for R&D? MS. aa: Hm, okay this is acting on way before clock one. MR. a : Before clock one, the one we initially showed you where -- in. And it is our believe, per the person w fa o never keyed ho said that they keyed him in, it was done after midnight. IK . : A y we C c an MR : Are you allowed to count an inmate that you can’t see? MS. a: No. MR. a: If inmate Fernandez was moved from the SHU at 3:15 p.m., who should have counted him as part of their count slip? MS. QJ: «at 3:15? MR. a: Yeah, he was moved at 3:15 and the 4:00 p.m. count was a SHU that should have counted him on the count slip or was it EFTA00115266

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 supposed to be R&D? MS. QJ: 9 well, to be honest with you, because I work in R&D and I’m going to tell you what goes on, they drop inmates in there and they don’t - a lot of the times, staff - that’s why now we tell them, “Tell us what you’re bringing inmates down here for.” Because they would bring an inmate down and place that inmate in a cell. You won’t know because you’re busy dealing with the Marshals, you’re dealing whatever movement you have going on in R&D and you won’t know that they brought an inmate down in a cell. So, it could work both ways that, you know, maybe they figured they were just going to place him down there, keep him down there and then maybe bring him back upstairs. So, it could have been a number of things, but I just know from experience, inmates have been brought into my R&D that we weren’t aware of and we realized, walking around R&D, “Yeah, we got an inmate in here.” “What is he down here for?” So -. MR. QM: So this, for me personally, the E-1 isn’t as concerning on the 4:00 p.m., although -- 109 EFTA00115267

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 110 1 MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. 2 MR. a : -- the count slip is. it was so close to the 4:00 WwW wo o a fu c n o rt a 0) my in | wi th ie} | 7 where I start getting like -. 9 Because there is no R&D 10 there’s R&D count slip d off, but it also has no E-1 notification. So that -. 4 MR. ae : And to me, it seems like 5 the count slips were created after the fact or nN wy ive) oO manipulated or deleted or something, I don’t know. co U I don’t know neither. wo a3 As he mentions -. Nait a minute. I just want 23 to see. So at 4 o’clock the had 75. 24 MR. a : But technically at that 25 point, they were missing three inmates. EFTA00115268

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 111 1 had gone, Fernandez was moved and Epstein was 2 sitting in attorney conference. ies) a Yeah. And it doesn’t -. 5 MR rs Les] a] rt ct ie) ai =] o wo 2lor 2 3 conferenc 4 MR 5 MS. a: This is all the inmates out to court with 7 MR. ae : So yeah, physically oO fee) ue] Kh i] 7) m a] rt | | 21 the 75 although -- 23 MR. a : -- I mean 74. 24 MS. a: Not (Indiscernible EFTA00115269

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 112 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a : Although they reported 75 because Fernandez -- MS. a: Okay, well you -- MR. a : -- was (Indiscernible *01:33:31). MS. a: -- Epstein accounted for in attorney conference. But this is an out count. MR. a : Correct. MS. a : And he’s keyed on the out count and this is what shows where he is actually sitting in key two at that time so this shows that he’s in attorney conference. MR. QJ: Right. MS. QJ: 9 Because he’s keyed out on the out count to attorney conference. And what I was expressing to you guys earlier about the courts, how we used to do it, (Indiscernible *01:34:01) maybe it’s a couple (Indiscernible *01:34:02). Okay, this is what we used to do in R&D as far as the out count. So, this would say the inmate outs court, name, register number, what unit and cell he came from and how many from whatever his unit is. So if we had three out from that unit to court, it would be three or whatever, however many numbers and EFTA00115270

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 113 1 this is how we would - this is what would show 2 in the system that the inmate went out to court 3 that day 4 MR. ae: And that’s an inmate you’re 5 expecting back? 6 MS. QJ: «Right. 7 MR. a : So if Reyes is not on there, 8 does that mean that Reyes is gone and you’re 9 not expecting him back? 10 MS. a: Well, if he was keyed out at 11 8 - what did that say, 8:33? ive) Hi Then he wouldn’t show up on 4 this as an out count because that means he’s w keyed out. 8 MR. a : So people that are going 9 to court that are expected to come back would 20 be on that sheet. 21 MS. a: Right. But we don’t - 22 MR. ae : But Reyes was not 23 expected to come back. 24 MS. a: Right. And from the looks of 25 this, I didn’t work that shift. That wasn’t my EFTA00115271

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 114 10 11 12 13 14 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 shift. MR. a : Yeah, no, and we didn’t believe it was. We’re -. MR. a : You might have left beforehand? MS. a : I might have left - this might have been the day shift and I might have worked the evening shift, so I might have worked - I don’t even know. But I just know that I wasn’t dealing with the courts, the movement at that time, just from looking at the out count. MR. a : Okay. So now that we know that the count was off over here and that the 10:00 p.m. count, according to the Lieutenant’s log, says 72, but 10:00 p.m. says 73 plus one - MS. a: Uh-huh. MR. a: -- right, and now R&D actually is reporting that there is an inmate in there -- MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. MR. a: -- except they’re still reporting 73 plus one. MS. QJ: 9 Uh-huh. EFTA00115272

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 115 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a: And then at midnight - where is the - midnight it says 72 over here and the count slip shows 73. What does that tell you about the counts that were done in the SHU? MR. a : What he’s asking, if there’s only 72 people in there and they’re reporting 73 and it just so happened to coincide. And this one - and you need to know that background information. MS. a: Okay, so this is what - MR. a : They reported 73 and the Ops Lieutenant who took the count, found out it was actually only 72, made the change and changed Reye- and keyed Fernandez out. MS. a: Okay. MR. Ee : So what | is asking you is the fact that they reported 73 on all these, does that indicate anything to you about the counts if they were done or were they not done? MS. a: Yeah, this looks like someone wasn’t paying attention because this - what does this look like to you? MR. a : Well, that’s what I was going to ask. What is RA? That -. EFTA00115273

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 116 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. a: RA is where that guy was sitting at on dry cell. MR. MJ: «sts that rsp? MS. a : Yes. So he was - so, because it’s now the 12 o’clock count and it’s prior to the count, they can go ahead and key him in where he’s actually assigned. So it seems that during the 10 o’clock count, he was still keyed to SHU so, what was it, plus one or something? So now at 12 o’clock, because he wasn’t keyed there at 10 o’clock, they keyed him there now before the 12 o’clock count which is correct and accurate and what they should have done, but now he’s plus one - he’s here where he should be where he stated on this notification, right, so that’s accurate. But, if he’s no longer here, they should have been putting what’s here. MR. QJ: | Right. MS. a: Because he’s not plus one up there no more. MR. a : Yeah. So this one is clearly that they’re off. These guys though, are still even with that 73 plus one, it should have been 72 plus one if they’re trying to say, EFTA00115274

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 117 wi ~] 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 > “We got one outside.” It shouldn’t be 73 plus one. They’re utilizing the same number it looks like on the E-1. Somehow it seems that they had that number, that base count number and they knew, “We need - this is the number we need to report, but also we got a plus one over in R&D.” MS. QJ: 9 Right MR. a : So they’re still off on their count. Does that indicate to you that they didn’t actually conduct the count, they just used the number that they thought they were supposed to report? MS. QJ: §9=o1t doesn’t indicate that they didn’t count. MR. Ee : Because if they counted - MR. Ee : -- wouldn’t they have the right number? MS. a: Sometimes you can count stuff MR. a : But wouldn’t it be really coincidental if they miscount at the exact number that they were supposed to actually EFTA00115275

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 118 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) provide? They definitely miscounted, but there’s 72 people in there and they just happen that 7) to miscount exactly what the E-1 show: they were supposed to count. MR. a: It’s coincidences and the fact that it happened twice in a row, what does that tell you? MR. a : No, three times in a row. MR. a: Three times. MR. Ee : 4:00 p.m. -- MR. a : That’s right. MR. QJ: -- 10:00 p.m. and 12:00 MS. a: I’m not going to answer that. MR. ae: Well, based on your experience, right? You’re experience of working in Control, working in R&D, what do you think happened? Do you think that they did the count or not? MS. a: I’m not going to answer that MR. a : How would have they gotten that number that they were supposed to report? EFTA00115276

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 119 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 MS. a: By probably just looking in their log and seeing, “Okay, when you take over my post, oh, we got 72 guys. One is in R&D but they still got him keyed to our unit.” Based on maybe what someone told them. MR. a : And when you worked in the unit at midnight, do you remember this being an issue at all? Because this is where we're told the Ops Lieutenant who took the count, a - she -- MS. QJ: 9 She had -. MR. a : -- had to run around and try to figure this thing out. She’s the one who had to like come in and say like, “Okay, where - who’s what, where and I can verify o” Do you remember that at all? MS. QJ: No. MR. a : Do you remember any telephone calls with the SHU saying, “You got a bad count, you got to recount?” MS. a: No, if she’s taking the count, I let her deal with it. I don’t - I work on whatever else. MR. a : Okay. So you’re not actually involved with her while she’s doing EFTA00115277

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 120 ies) a Okay. And you wouldn’t 4 have been, being that you came from R&D, you 5 wouldn’t have been the person that she said, 6 “Can you verify with R&D that this person is there?” 8 MS. aa: If she ask at I did then, but I don’t recall that. it) me and that’s oO ea se r i=) X You don’t recall -- WM: ts don’t know anything about 2 that 3 MR a : -- doing that? Okay. 4 MS. QJ: «9s yuh-uh. 5 MR. a : You don’t remember at all though in that specific - you do - did you oO recall her being there at all? co 179) Yeah, she was there. 9 MR. Ee : So you remember her being 20 in Control Center? 21 MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. 22 MR. ae : And you -. 23 MS. a: Because she also made rounds 24 on the units. She walked around the 25 institution. EFTA00115278

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 121 1 MR. : All N Hy wu H 1] n on i) p. =] Q ® het o jon b- o ny] =) o ies) 7 o wo as] | ies) co Ww =] Gc Q c wu ct — o ct i=5 7 MR a : So Fernandez, 3:15, who co was 0 MR He wasn’t Zz WM: oh, the -. 7 : The dry cell gu ive) Fs) Yeah. show what time? 7 MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. And how do we get that? f o fw is] ct c pw t b Lee) 5 9 So just make a note, we 20 MR. a: That (Indiscernible 22 MS. a: Since it goes back -- 23 MR. a: That’s the same document I 24 showed you? BD 25 MS. a: -- only 45 days. EFTA00115279

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) co co OFFICIAL USE 122 MR. Ee : Okay. So we wouldn’t K 0 c KK 0) rt fu bh oe P- a 1] Yeah. Oo ifs) ral} 0 Now what if they did = oO o oO fw ion pa oO t Oo s back then, would we MS. tart taking with initials EFTA00115280

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE Being that I Just the documents MR. J: 9 -- Do about counts not actually bein time the custody this in August of 2019? When involved in things an officer, MS. If I’m count yeah. Or If I’m -. SHU? count, yes. Did you the counts in MS. I’ve done co showed you these initial and date you know anything g conducted at would work on would you be ing a unit with ever do unts in EFTA00115281

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 124 Ww n a: -- but -. And when you were there, conduct the counts? 6 MS. aa: When I do counts, I conduct Ww 2 a QQ rt Za Oo wu ie] rt c wu bh f bn} 8 MR. a : Yeah, yeah, but I mean, 9 I’m not talking about you, I know did, but 10 I mean -- 11 MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. MR. a : -- the people that were there with you, were they actually, you know, N Fs ive) 4 you’ re supposed to have two people to count. Was the other pe t oO 77) Well, if I -- also counting? MS. a: -- have - if I’m working, - it’s not a J 5 ! 1 co wo he oO mw a a re] co 5 ct bh oS Q fs] re] Hb ct ts) fe] C 20 question. We’re not even having that No Nm a MR. ae : Did you ever have anybody push back on you like, “No, no, no, we’re No ion) 2 24 good? EFTA00115282

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 125 1 MR. a: Have you heard of people who 2 when they’re starting the shift, just filling 3 out the counts slips and the round sheets and 4 be like MR. a : Ahead of time. 6 MR. ae: Ahead of time. w 7 MS. a: Well, if they’re on their own 8 unit, I can’t tell you what they’re doing on 9 their unit. I can only tell you what I’m doing 10 on my unit, s 11 MR. Ee : But like in the SHU, have 2 you ever heard of like people coming in and 3 pre-filling out both count slips and round 4 sheets at the very start of their shift? 15 MS. a: If they’ve done it, I’ve 16 never seen it. 7 MR. ae : You’ve never seen it? 8 MR. a : Have you ever heard of people 9 doing anything like that? 20 MS. BRR: 3 t’ve heard of it, but I don’t 21 - I’ve never seen it. 22 MR. a: Is that good practice? 23 MS. QJ: No. 24 MR. a : Is it known that you 25 can’t do that? EFTA00115283

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 126 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. a: You’ re not supposed to do that. MR. a : Does everyone know they can’t - especially if we’re talking about round sheets. Does everyone know that you can’t go and - say it goes from 8:00 a.m. until 12:00 p-m., you can’t go in at 8:00 a.m. and write out everything you did for around all the way to 12:00 p.m.? MS. a: You cannot do that because anything can happen. An emergency can take place. An inmate could get removed from your unit. You can get a new guy. Any - there’s a number of things that could take place that you are not supposed to - even your log book, pre- fill out your log. MR. ee: Is there any training though that you all receive saying like, “You got to do this when you’re actually conducting the rounds?” And certainly, you know, maybe after the fact is okay because you already did it, but beforehand -. MS. a: Maybe if the Lieutenant sees it, you know, they might say, “Hey, you know, you’re not supposed to pre-fill out your count EFTA00115284

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 127 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 slips.” They might say, you know, “You can fill out the date, the time, the unit,” you might could even fill in your name, but you’re not supposed to put in the actual number because you don’t know what can happen, so. MR. a : But as far (Indiscernible *01:45:26) talking about counts slips, I’m talking about round sheets. MS. a : Oh. No, you’re not supposed to. They always tell - they - the Lieutenants always say that you’re not supposed - they always tell everybody that. MR. a : And do you know if back in August 2019, they were also saying that? MS. a: No, I don’t know about that. MR. QJ: | Right. MS. a: I don’t know -. MR. a : And is there any training that’s provided to teach people how to actually fill out round sheets and counts slips or is it supposed to be common sense? MS. a : Normally you’re training on the job as you go along, so if I’m new and, you know, I’m training up under your officer, you might show me certain things and people just EFTA00115285

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 128 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 learn by asking questions and maybe another officer just showing him ropes and everybody don’t do everything the way they’re supposed to do so. I might come in as a new officer and you might be showing me stuff and it could be completely wrong, but I’m doing what you showed me because that’s all I know. So, it just depends on who’s training who and who’s showing who what to do and that’s pretty much it because on the job, right now, we have new staff training new staff. We have staff that’s here like a month training staff that’s here a week. So, the blind leading the blind. MR. a : So if someone makes the excuse that, “No one ever told me I could do that, but I saw other people filling out round sheets ahead of time so that’s why I did it,” is that an excuse do you believe? So you think that that is an actual excuse to say like, “Well, he did it, so I did it,” and that makes it okay? Because don’t you think it’s pretty common sense that, no, you can’t - you’re certifying a document saying you conducted that round at that time? MS. a: Yes, common sense to the EFTA00115286

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 people that think outside the box and - but common sense is not common to everybody and - and I’m not trying to be a smart ass -- MR. a : No, no, no, it’s very -. MS. a : -- you know. MR. a : It’s a good point. MS. a : And, you know, I’ve been doing law enforcement for a while, you know, corrections, juveniles, school safety. So, I’ve seen things on the job that make me take my job seriously. But when you have no knowledge, you have no experience, no correctional background, you’ve never been placed in an environment that you felt was that dangerous for you to be as mindful as you should be, you don’t - and then nothing happens, you follow what you see everybody else doing in past practice and it’s not always right and a lot of people don’t read what they’ re supposed to be doing, they just go by what you tell them and what I could tell you what to do, doesn’t necessarily mean that that’s actually what you are supposed to be doing. 129 EFTA00115287

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 130 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. a: And if you don’t read it in black and white for yourself, how would you know that this is actually what you should be doing? And it’s just a lack of training around here. Staff are not being trained and that’s what creates a lot of our problems. We don’t have a bad institution, we just have a lack of training, you know, and I don’t think that people are not willing to work, I think they want to work, but it’s a lack of training and it's a lack of morale in the institution, so I think that’s what the biggest problem is. People are not being properly trained. So, yeah, if I see you doing it, I think it’s okay. I’m not ever thinking, “Oh, you know what? Maybe I shouldn’t do that, something might happen.” If nothing ever really happens, so. MR. a: I have a few more questions - MS. QJ: 9 Uh-huh. MR. a: -- a few more, but we can come back. Some of the questions are going to be redundant -- Ms. QJ: 9 uh-huh. MR. a: -- redundant because we asked EFTA00115288

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 131 1 the questions -- 2 MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. 3 MR ae : -- so I just got to cover it. 4 MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. 5 MR a: Do you know why Reyes was 6 removed from the MCC? 7 MS. Is that the guy that went out Les] ct 12] a fe) c R ct " wo 5 xs oO uw I would only know that 11 because he went to court. But looking at that 2 document, off the top of my head, I wouldn’t be 3 able to recall off the top of my head why he 4 was removed, but I just know he went out to 15 court. 16 MR. ae: Were you ever instructed on actions to take -. wh wu rt Lee) 5 Well, let’s follow up 9 with that. Looking at the Lieutenant’s log, 20 does that tell you something different? With 21 the Lieutenant’s log and the BP-38? 22 MS. a: You mean the PP-38. Uh-huh. 25 MR. QJ: 411 right. I thought it EFTA00115289

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 wo i) 1 was like Bureau of Prisons, like BP. So it’s ies) a Somebody -. What does the PP stand ies) 8. w a for? 7 Ms. QJ: 9oit’s a SENTRY fun don’t know. Okay. Repeat your question again. oO (oa ion. I co wo F So looking at where it ive) as with that document the R&D uses to key 4 people out, the PP-38. Do that tell you why 15 he would have left? 16 MS. a: No, because this does not 7 necessarily tell you. It just tells you he was 8 removed out of the institution. 9 MR. Ee : Okay. 20 MS. QJ: 3 So, no - I mean, you just 21 know that he’s gone. You don’t know why he’s 22 gone, you just know he left. 23 MR. a : Sure. 24 MS. a: And same thing with that, you 5 just - you don’t know why, you just know he EFTA00115290

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 133 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 left. MR. a: Okay. You’re talking about the PP-38, right? MS. a : Yes. MR. a: How would the institution know if Reyes was coming back from court? MS. a : R&D would know because he would come back with the Marshals and we would key him back in and we would send him back to his unit. MR. a: Now, if he wasn’t - now that he wasn’t coming back, is there any other notification that comes up throughout the day through R&D that he isn’t coming back? MS. a: It would just be whatever dispositions that the Marshals give us, provide us with. MR. a: When does that disposition come? MS. a: That just depends. Sometime we get it right away, sometimes they forget and we got to pre-remove the inmate out because we don’t have nothing and we know that he went with the Marshals. But sometimes we get it as soon as possible and sometimes we don’t get it EFTA00115291

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 134 uw ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 until the next day. MR. a: So there is a disposition form that comes in afterwards. MS. a : Uh-huh. MR. a: What is it? What does the form look like? What does it state on it? MS. a: It’s just a United States Marshals form and it’ll say, “Disposition of -” - it’ll be time served, maybe the judge released somebody on recognizance. Just whatever the judge just might - the judge might have dismissed the case. Just whatever happened at court is what will be - it might be a bail bond. Might be a release to Probation. MR. a: And where is that form kept? MS. a: It would be in the inmate’s folder. MR. a: Do you recall seeing any forms for - disposition forms for inmate Reyes? MS. QJ: 31 don’t remember. MR. a : And what is done with that information once it’s received? MS. a: We retain it in the inmate’s folder and we key the inmate out and -. MR. a: Or is the information EFTA00115292

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 135 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 disseminated throughout or no? MS. a: Do we give Control those? No, we don’t give Control a copy. I don’t think we give Control a copy of the disposition form because they - we don’t give them a copy of it. MR. es : So this circles back to what we talked about before. So once you find out an inmate is definitively not coming back, you do not contact anyone to say, “This guy didn’t come back.” MS. a: We key them out and normally the Control Officer, if you have a good counts and assignments officer, and he’s paying attention, he’ll say, “Oh, you guys keyed one out?” We'll say, “Yeah, he’s not coming back, he got time served or the Marshals took him and he’s not coming back.” MR. QM: the Red doesn’t proactively provide that information. MS. a: No, because they’re supposed to automatically be checking the computer to - like a checks and balance, so it’s something that’s automatic. When we have inmates going out to court, we have a receipt that we give to EFTA00115293

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 136 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the Marshals and a copy also goes downstairs to the Control Center as well, so the Control has a copy of every move we do in R&D, so they get a copy of that. MR. a: Can you recall any situations where an inmate leaves for court and R&D is notified, “Hey, listen, the inmate is not coming back,” where R&D actually called the unit to let them know, “Hey, he’s not coming back?” MS. a : Yeah, we have. We have. MR. a: Is that because they requested to be notified or is it because, is that something that R&D normally does? MS. a: No, we might have - it might have been that the inmate had property upstairs and we might need him to secure the inmate’s property and bring it down. So, that’s normally sometimes why we might notify the unit officer because sometimes the inmate, they’1l call back to the jail and say, “Oh, they released me. I got my property upstairs.” And we'll call upstairs to the unit officer and say, “Hey, inmate so and so is not coming back, can you secure his property?” EFTA00115294

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. a: Okay. Before he left for the day on August 9th, do you recall talking to any about Reyes leaving? MS. a: I don’t recall that, no. MR. a: I know we covered this as part of "Ss i) yrevious conversation, so I’m going t oO go through it quick. MS. QJ: 9 un-huh. MR. a : On August 10th when you came ved in? a: I didn’t take the counts, I was number one in the Control Center. So my number two person takes the counts. MR. a: Number two? Who was the MR. a: | | | | (Phonetic Sp. He w in the ntrol Center w fo Ww ~] EFTA00115295

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 138 1 with me. 2 MR. a: Okay. And do recall 3 i - a taking the midnight count? 4 MS. a: I believe she came and took 5 the midnight count. Were you present for it? I was in the Control Center - wo 5 tw Cc e | i=) MS. -- but I wasn’t focused on 11 them taking the count. I was focused on 2 getting my equipment, account for my equipment. 3 MR. a: Do you recall any issues with 4 the count? 5 Ms. QJ: §9=Not that I know of. Not that 16 I recall. 7 MR. a: And do you recall who called 8 in the count from the SHU? 9 MS. a: Not that I can recall. 20 MR. QJ: §9owhat about the 3:00 a.m. and 21 the 5:00 a.m.? 22 MS. I know one of them called the 23 count in because that’s the only way we can 24 clear a count. wi No ral wu te EFTA00115296

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 139 w ~] wo 10 11 MS. a: So I don’t remember who called but I know somebody did call in the count. MR. a : Do you recall during the middle of the count i calling the SHU, having conversation with the CO in there? MS. a: I don’t know because a lot of times they’1ll call downstairs when they’re calling in the count and she’1ll have short conversations with the officers, so I can’t say whether she called them or they called her, I don’t know. MR. a: Do you recall if there was a second count slip sent up for the SHU for the midnight count? MS. a: No, I can’t recall, I don’t know. MR. a: Can COs just call in the previous number or do they have to physically do the count? MS. a: No, they have to count. MR. GJ: 39 why? MS. a: You’ re counting for living, breathing bodies. MR. a: Once the counts are done, do EFTA00115297

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) the COs have to notify you? MS. a: They’re supposed to call the Control Center and call in their count. They call the control two, which is i. and they call in their count. MR. a: Do the COs fill out any paperwork for the count? MS. aa: A count slip. A count slip. MR. a: Think we pretty much covered a lot of the other questions. Do you have anything on that topic? MR. a : Who all has acces update the E-1l document? 7] ct Oo MS. a: Who all has access to update it? The Control Center officers. MR. Ee : When you say, “officer,” just the Control Center officers is what you mean? MS. a: Whoever works in the Control MR. QJ: Right. MS. a: -- but a lot of times, most of the officers were shifted around working Control, so primarily, if you work the Control Center as a counts and assignments officer, you EFTA00115298

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 141 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) had access to printing out E-1l. All the “ Lieutenants have access, R&D had access, but we MR. ae: But at that point, did you guys have access? MS. aa: Yeah, because you prepare this for the count, so yeah. MR. a: Okay. MS. a: But we don’t have access anymore. MR. Ee : So Control Officers, Lieutenants, anyone else? mS. QJ: «Rep. MR. ae : And that anyone who ha worked in Control at that time, at least they if) maintained the access for a certain amount of period afterwards? MS. a: Yeah, Uh-huh. MR. Ee : Do you know how long that period of time was at that point? MS. QJ: «1 don’t think - I think if you had access to it, you ct 4 nt It don’t think it was no -. MR. a : So, given access once, you got it until -- EFTA00115299

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 142 w ~] wo 10 11 MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. MR. a : -- they revoke it. MS. QJ: «Right. Uh-huh. MR. QJ: Okay. MS. a: I don’t think it was - yeah, it was no time frame that I know of. MR. a: You have any other questions on that? When you were in - are you aware there were cameras inside the MCC on August 93th and 10th? MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. MR. a: When you were in Control, did you have access to see the cameras? MS. a: Yeah, you - the cameras in the - it’s like little TV screens with little individual boxes of different areas of the institution. MR. a: Could you see the SHU in there? MS. QR: No. You could only see over a balcony looking down to the MP and it was like far off so it’s like the camera is up on a balcony and just looking all the way down over there. You don’t really - can’t really see nothing. EFTA00115300

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 143 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a: Was it clear? MS. a: No. It’s like, if you see, you might have seen a body move here and there, but you can’t really tell - you couldn’t really - it wasn’t clear, no. MR. a: Did you ever hear that the cameras are not working, offline or not recording? MS. a : All the time. MR. a: And was there complaints filed - told to anybody specific? The Captain, Lieutenant? MS. a : I believe notifications were made, like especially if we’re in the Control Center, we would call the com tech and say, “Hey, this camera might have went out.” So yeah, notifications were made. MR. QJ: «and did they fix it immediately? MS. a: At that time, no, things weren’t getting fixed immediately, no. MR. a : Do you recall seeing Michael Thomas (Indiscernible *02:00:56) on the camera on the night - on the morning watch of August 10th? EFTA00115301

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] MS. a: You can’t see really from the camera that I had access to, you can’t really see - you can’t - you barely could see because it’s like, I don’t know if you’ve ever been in our SHU. Have you ever been in the SHU? MR. QJ: that’s -. MR. a : No, we have pictures but we've never -- MR. a: That’s this picture. MR. a : -- actually been there. MS. a: So, you can’t really see. MR. a: I’m showing you a picture. MS. a: This is -. MR. a: Is this the view? MS. a: Yeah, that’s exactly, yeah, this is it. So like, if they were in a black hoodie or something, you can’t see nobody over there. If their back is turned and the chairs are - you can’t really see. You might see a body walk across or you might see a body walk down, but you can’t really see. It’s not a real good copy. But yeah, that’s exactly what I’m talking about. MR. a: Do you have anything else on the cameras? 144 EFTA00115302

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 145 w ~] ive) MR. Ee : No, just when you’re in the Control Center, does it - is there any indication saying that if a camera is working but not recording? No. There’s no way for you to know if a camera is recording or not? MS. EJ: 9 Yeah. MR. a : Just if it was actually live or not. MS. a : Uh-huh. You would just know that the camera is up. You don’t know - I wouldn’t have been able to tell you that, I don’t know. Huh-uh. MR. a : Okay. And did you, prior to 6:33, when a body alarm was set off, did you notice anything unusual happening in the institution on any cameras? Specifically, I guess the SHU one that you couldn’t see that well anyway? MR. QJ: 0. Okay. MS. a: Huh-uh. MR. a: There was no other angles from the SHU you could see? MS. a: No. This is all I - that’ all you could see. fi EFTA00115303

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED ies) w co io ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 146 MR. ae : Now just a few other MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. was Going in? The morning he was found or -- MS. a: -- or the night prior to him 7) MR. a : Both is fine. MS. a: Well, I know the Lieutenant made rounds. MR. ae: Lieutenant who? MS. a: a. she made rounds to call the door, so we n EFTA00115304

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 147 uw ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 he’s talking about midnight to 6:30 -- MS. a: Right. Yeah. MR. a : -- right. MS. a : So, Lieutenant, she made rounds on the unit because the SHU staff called the door for her to pop - for us to pop her into the SHU and when they call the door, when you hit that door, a visual of the door, who standing in front of the door pops up in the Control Center, so you know who is going into the SHU. During the body alarm, our usual staff just responds to a body alarm, so, you know they say, “Hey, we have a medical emergency in SHU,” or wherever they call. You got the SHU crew calling the door so staff can run in and assist, so, whoever ran in, I couldn’t tell you. But whoever was on shift at that time, responded. MR. a: So the only one overnight would be at that - before his body was found would be Lieutenant | idx MS. a: Lieutenant i. internal. If he had -. MR. a: Who is internal? EFTA00115305

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 148 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a: Do you recall | requesting to go into the SHU? MS. a: He would - he don’t really - he wouldn’t really have a reason to go into SHU, not unless they’re calling for you to come in and do something or he’s going in, you know, because normally, the two officers will count, they’11 put their count slip on the door and the internal officer, he’1ll pick up the count slip on his rounds while he’s counting the other units. So, if he doesn’t have a reason to go in the SHU, he won’t go in SHU. MR. a : Okay. Do you know if there’s any other way that anyone can get through that outer door of the SHU without Control buzzing them in? MS. EJ: No. MR. a: Is the -. MS. a : You would need an emergency key that you would have to get from the Control Center. But no one gets those keys. And especially on morning watch when there’s no need for us to give out those keys. Staff are calling the door, so, no, there’s no other way to get in that unit. EFTA00115306

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 149 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a: Are those keys kept open or is it just it’s locked up? MS. a: It’s behind a door in the bathroom in the Control Center. MR. a: And that would get you through the first door. Do you know if there’s a second set of keys for the internal door for the SHU kept in the Control Center? MS. a : We have keys for most of the doors, yes. But those door - the inner door, the Unit Officer would have, the inner door, he has access to that. So the Unit Officers have those keys. MR. QJ: 9 wWe’re just asking just to clarify, if - do you know if anyone checked out the keys for the inner door or the outer door out of the Control Center that night? MS. a: The outer door, those keys never get checked out, but the inner door, that key is a key pretty much like a - you have to put a chit on the Control Center and -. MR. a : Put a what? Ms. QJ: A chit. MR. QJ: 9 What's that? MS. a: So it’s like a chit system. EFTA00115307

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 150 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 I have a pair of keys. In order for me to get these keys from Control, I have to turn ina chit -- MR. a : So it’s basically -. MS. a : -- with my name. Yeah, you have to turn ina chit. So it’s -. MR. a: A key chain with your name on Ms. QJ: 9=yveah, it’s a chit. Uh-huh. And you - it’s like a - what is it, what would you call it? Accountability. MS. a : So, you put the chit on it, you give the person a key. In order to get the chit back, you got to give them the key back, then you get the chit back. MR. a: Do you recall if anyone did that for the SHU keys that night? MS. a : I don’t recall. But I don’t recall that, no. MR. a: Okay. I’ve got nothing else. Do you - is there any questions that you think that we didn’t ask you about that you feel that we should ask you about? EFTA00115308

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 151 1 MR. a: In regards to this Epstein 2 investigation? MS. a: Mm, no, I think that’s -. 4 MR. a : Do you believe Epstein took his own life? 6 MS. aa: I believe so. ies) w 7 MR. a : Do you have any reason to 8 believe that anyone took Epstein’s life aside 9 from himself? 10 MS. J: No. 11 MR. Ee : Do you have any knowledge sting Epstein with taking his ive) t wi ~ a Okay. 16 MS. a: No. I believe he had a lot on his plate and this environment was a culture 8 shock to him then. I think that he took his 9 own life. 20 MR. QJ: | Now the fact that we 21 don’t have camera from that tier - oh, I wanted 22 to circle back with you. So our understanding 23 from the camera technicians and everyone else 24 is that there were actually at that time 25 cameras down each range, they just weren’t EFTA00115309

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 152 1 recording. ies) id 0 18) he is) & know anything No. 6 MR. a : Do you know - do you have any reason to believe that someone knocked w nn 8 those cameras off line intentionally so that wo i=) a: No. No. I don’t believe nN 5 All right. And you don’t ive) know anything about that? 4 MS. a: No. No. That’s a good one. 5 MR. a : Well, it’s just there’s a lot of coincidences in this one. 7 MS. a: Yeah. It’s unfortunate. You still deteriorating oO oo am fe) = rt a B wm ion ce pe e Q we 5 te] k ifs] wo 25 MR. ae: Well, thank you for taking EFTA00115310

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 wo the time to talk to us. MS. a: You’ re welcome. You’re welcome. MR. a : This is Special Agent | a. The time is 6:12 p.m. on Thursday, July 15, 2021. We’re ending the interview and turning off the recorder. ios) EFTA00115311

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 154 1 CERTIFICATE 2 I hereby certify that the foregoing pages 3 represent an accurate transcript of the 4 electronic sound recording of the proceedings 5 before the Department of Justice, Office of the 6 Inspector General in the matter of: - 8 Interview of Po 9 10 11 12 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 EFTA00115312