10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL JULY 20, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 EFTA00115005

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 APPEARANC ies) OR GENERAL co WITN te) ive) co EFTA00115006

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. QERMJ: his is Special Agent J 2 a. Today is Thursday, J time is 4:03 p.m. and I’ve turned on the 4 recorder. My name is a. I’ma Agent with the U.S. Department of ios) 2021. The ies) w tn ue] oO Q pe wu b Ae Q D Oo) q co m r bh a o Oo -h rh Bb Q oO ie} mh Inspector General, New York 7 Field Office and these are my credentials. 8 MS. QJ: 9 Okay. 9 MR. a : This interview is with the 10 Federal Bureau of Prisons Correctional Officer 1 and this interview is ing conduct as 1 and this interview is being conducted 2 part of an official U.S. Department of Justice, 3 Office of Inspector General investigation. 4 Today is July 15, 2021. The time is 4:04 p.m. 15 This interview is being conducted at the 16 Metropolitan Correctional Center located at 150 7 Park Row. We are in the Executive Assistant’s 8 office. Also present is DOJ OIG Senior Special 20 interview will be recorded by me, Special Agent 21 | ti‘z@‘“S Could everyone please identify 22 themselves for the record and spell your last 23 name. To start, I am DOJ OIG Special Agent 25 MR. a : I’m Senior Special Agent EFTA00115007

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] wo 10 11 ive) with the DOJ OIG. MR. a: Can you please state your first and last name? MR. a : Oh, and these are my credentials just so you do know. MS. a: Okay. I’m Correctional the Federal Bureau of Prisons, Department of Justice. MR. QJ: This is an official DOJ OIG investigation into the death of inmate Jeffery Epstein and the surrounding circumstances. You are being asked to voluntarily provide answers to our questions. Will you agree to a voluntary interview with the DOJ OIG? MS. a: Yes. MR. a: Please review DOJ OIG form 3- 226/2. The form basically states, “United States Department of Justice, Office of Inspector General, Warnings and Assurances to Employee Requested to Provide Information on a Voluntary Basis. You are being asked to provide information as part of an investigation being conducted by the Office of Inspector EFTA00115008

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 5 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 General. This investigation is being conducted pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended. This investigation pertains to job performance failure and security failure.” It’s in general. It has nothing to do with you directly, it’s in general, the investigation we’re doing. “This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not have to answer questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you choose not to answer questions. Any statement you furnish may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceedings or agency disciplinary proceedings or both.” The waiver states, “I understand the warnings and assurances stated above and I am willing to make a statement and answer questions. No promises or threats have been made to me or no pressure or coercion of any kind has been used against me.” Please review the document and let me know if you understand. If you do understand, please sign the document o” where it says, “Employee signature,” and print your name. MR. a : And just for the record, it doesn’t basically state what you just said, EFTA00115009

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE fen) 1 it actually states everything that you just used the Ww a H ct if ct fu ct @ M rt S wu ct c ” 4 word “basically states,” I shouldn’t have said 5 that. 6 aa: Okay And I sign at employee sig-. 8 MR. a: It says, “Employee signature,” and print your name right below it. wo 10 MR. a : Oh, do you have any 11 questions on that before we go, just you can 2 totally ask (Indiscernible *00:03:35). 3 MS. a: Okay No. 4 MR. ae : Just, I mean, the long r oy mn o wu ct o a) Ss fe ct b 3 oO v 7 MR. ae : -- short of it is -- I’1l put it in there. 9 MR. Ee : -- we can do that. But Lee) 5 20 then just the long and short of it is, it’s 21 voluntary. You do not have to answer 22 questions. You can leave at any time. 24 MR. a : That’s the purpose, for 25 you just to -. EFTA00115010

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 7 1 MR. a: So you understand the form ies) MS. a: Yes. 4 MR. ae: This is Special Agent a. 5 I’m signing on the signature of the Office of 6 I or General, Special Agent. 7 MR. a : This is Senior Special 9 the witness, printing my name as a witness, 10 entering the date and time as July 15, 2021 at 11 4:07 p.m. and the place MCC New York. MR . ae: Before starting the interview, || like to place you under oath. Ww N mw u 4 Ms. a. can you please raise your right 5 hand? Do you swear to tell the truth and 16 nothing but the truth during this interview? 7 MS. I do co J tg b i) w w i) ! MR. you can put 9 hand down. 21 MR. ae: Please let me know if you 22 don’t understand my questions and I’1l1 try to 23 repeat it or try to rephrase it for you. 24 MS. a: Okay. 25 MR. ae: I want to again, clarify this EFTA00115011

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE o interview is specifically regarding inmate Jef Ph r i) y Epstein on August 9th and 10th, 2019. el I’m going to go through some background ° questions. What is your current home address? My current home address? is that relevant for > het BOG oO wo ae) “ part of our investi-. MR. a : You don’t ha to provide MS. a: Oh yeah, I don’t want to -- MS. a: -- give my address. MR. a : If you have anything - kind of, like a PIV card yu can show us just so we can verify who it is that you are? You know what? I left it at a a) That’s okay. four of your social security number? of birth and last four of my hat is your highest level of EFTA00115012

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE educati MR. MS. investi corrupt monitor wo on? Master’s degree. Okay. In what? Inspector General oO gations, fraud, waste, abuse or ion, organizational asse nt and i] 7] m i ing. a : You know more about this Which college? John Jay. And what about bachelors? My bachelors was correctional tration. What did you do prior to for the BOP? Ask her about where this as and when she got these degrees. Okay. I got my r got my BA in I believe 2006. working Also n wu K i) n Okay. And what - so prior to hh e) KR ct z © + , what did you EFTA00115013

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 Juvenile corrections. N Fs Where? Virginia. Is that with the state? uw p- ct ke o wu wm tate Department of Ww — is ) 3 I bt 1) qq Cc wn ct bh Oo @ co a K oO 17) Was that directly before the o wy i=) nN a] 1) ie] fu bh r | ive) Fs) They can be approximate. Estimate, yeah. th Approximately, I think 2006 oO oO K fe to 2009, when I started here. 7 MR. a: Okay. Do you have any military service? a: 20 MR. co And how long have you served 21 with the Federal Bureau of Prisons? 22 MS. RJ: Approximately now, 2009, 2019 No ion) ' io) be fas) Ke i) fu a a) ~ N a 20, 21, going on 11 and a half 24 years 25 a half years And EFTA00115014

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 11 1 when was your enter on duty date? 2 ms. Eg: /2009. WwW 5 = oO 5 did you graduate from I don’t remember that. I wi th a Q Oo 5S ct I 7 MR. a : When did you begin your career here at MCC? co © n March of 2011. 10 MR. a: And what was your position at 2 MS. a: Correctional Officer. What is your current ive) Fs) 4 position? 15 MS. a: Correctional Systems Officer. 16 MR. ae: And what’s 7 schedule right now? 8 Ms. QJ: 12:00 to 9 Friday. 20 MR. EJ: 39 Do you -. 21 MR. ae : What does your position 22 entail? What is that? 23 MS. a: Receiving and discharge, 24 movement. I deal with state risk, federal 25 risk, detainers, pending charges, warrants, EFTA00115015

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LIMITED ies) w co ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE 12 your grade MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. mz: 8 MR. August 9th and 10th, 2019? Officer, but I was working overtime in custo What a minute. I don’t even know what day that MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. And what -. -- for the MCC -- EFTA00115016

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 13 2 MR. a : And provide her -- This is two -. 4 MR. a : -- provide her also her ies) Hi 5 timesheet. 6 MR. ae: Yes. Is this your timesheet 7 for the same time period? 8 MR. a : Show her the columns 9 (Indiscernible *00 10 vs. SE: 11 MR. a: It’s (Indiscernible ive) Hi I normally write everything 4 on a calendar, but looks like my timesheet. 15 MR. a: So, the timesheet is for 16 August 4th all the way to August 17th. For the 7 9th, where does this timesheet show that you 8 worked? 9 MS. a: This - it doesn’t show where 20 you’re working, it just shows the hours you’ve 21 worked. 22 MR. a: Is it coded under a certain 23 entry? 24 MR. a : Well just ask her, do you 25 know by looking at these documents, do you know EFTA00115017

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 14 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 where on August 9th and August 10th you were working? This is not an, “I got you,” whatsoever. Just like, do you recall on August 9th(Indiscernible *00:10:03) working? MS. a : Well, I know that this is a custody overtime code for the overtime sheets. So this is -. MR. a: If it doesn’t state, that’s okay. MS. a: It’s possible, because I do - I was working a lot of overtime, so. But I can’t recall off the top of my head. But I know I did work the evening of the Epstein situation, so. MR. a: When you say “evening.”? MS. a: The morning he hung himself. MR. a: Okay. So according to the August 10th schedule, find yourself on the schedule? MS. QJ: 9 Uh-huh. MR. a: What were you listed for? MS. a : Control one. MR. a: Control one. Okay. Do you recall being interviewed by - recall interviewing with the OIG regarding the Epstein EFTA00115018

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 15 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 investigation in 2019? MS. a: I remember being interviewed, yes. MR. a : Okay. What I have is a summary off a report written by the FBI. Was the FBI also present? MS. a: Yes. MR. a: We did get a copy of it because OIG was present for the interview also. I’m going to read a portion of the interview record for you. MR. a : Does it state when she worked on August 9 and 10? That might help clarify things. MR. a: For the 10th it does. And so, I’m going to read it. As I read through it, it’s just summary for the record. Please tell me if there’s any corrections and let me know -- MS. a: Okay. MR. a: -- and we’ll address it. “Control’s duties include monitoring the activity on the ranges, answering calls from COs, replying on the radio and opening doors.” MS. a: Monitoring - you - at that EFTA00115019

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 16 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 time, we didn’t have cameras on the ranges so you could only see the center, which is like, they consider it the MPA, multi-purpose area of the unit. You are not able to see down the actual ranges of the units, so no. I wouldn’t ” say, “The ranges,” I would say, “The multi- purpose area.” MR. QJ: 9 ulti-purpose area of the ranges. “And | did I pronounce it right? MS. EJ: 9 uh-huh. MR. a: yo stated that no one is really moving anywhere within the institution. A count sheet is called the E-1 and it is printed off from the internal MCC system called SENTRY. Control validates all respondent numbers from the head counts and marks an X on the E-1 sheet to confirm the count. This happens for every check of every unit. E-ls are supplemented with count slips that are properly filled out and stapled to the E-1 timesheet. Once all head count numbers are verified to be correct, everything is documented, recorded and then considered to be a good count. | began her shift on August EFTA00115020

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LIMITED w ~] wo 10 11 ive) OFFICIAL USE 17 10th at 12:00 midnight to 8:00 a.m. stated that Lieutenant FY took care of the 12 o’clock count that day.” I’m going to pause right there. I’m going to ask you a question. Do you recall coming on shift that day? MS. ad 0) n MR. the first count would be at 12:00 midnight? MS. MR. And were you in Control when the count happened? MS. a: MR. : 7 MS. Yes. Who took the count? I don’t remember at that time. I don’t remember all this time ago, but if I said the Lieutenant took the count at that time, then that’s who took the count, because every Lieutenant is required to take a count, one count per shift. exact situation -. was, was Lieutenant | in the Control with you? But you don’t recall the I think what he’s asking EFTA00115021

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 18 w ~] wo 10 11 ive) MS. a: At some point in time, yes, he was. MR. a : So if she was taking the count, does that mean that she’s doing from s 13) Control? MS. aa: Yes, she’s doing it from Control. MR. a: Okay. » recalled that CO Noel, but is MS. aa: Noel. MR. a: “CO Noel worked in the SHU on the day of the incident. | stated that Noel was fairly new. | stated that she does not pay specific attention to just one individual screen during her shifts since 0) fe) is] much is going on. | stated that extension 64 oO 8 is a number that is called for reporting the count. If a Lieutenant is on the unit for the count, then this is when it is considered a watch call. On the 3:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m. watch calls, | ran the counts. P| recalled that the SHU called in the count of the day and that the count was accurate. EFTA00115022

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 | does not recall who called in the count from the SHU but recalled that the number was 72. | stated that there are folders that are filed that are compiled with count verification timesheets for every day of the calendar year.” MS. a: That is correct. MR. a: So I asked you, on August 10th, you said you worked at midnight in Control. MS. a : Yes. MR. a: Do you recall if you worked on August 9th? MS. QJ: 31 probably did. I don’t recall that, this far from now to then, but I probably most likely worked that day and if it’s on the roster and it’s on my timesheet, most likely, yes. MR. a: But you wouldn’t happen to recall if you worked in internal or |g MS. a: I know I worked | | because that’s my regular position and Custody, anything I did in Custody would be considered overtime for me. MR. a: Okay. So, on August 9th, by 19 EFTA00115023

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 20 based on that, it wouldn’t tell - would the (Indiscernible *00:15:16). It did say overtime. It did say overtime in internal. MR. a: But internal is not - is that Correctional Services. || is Correctional Those are two different departments. This is custody and || is So by this, were you in I was there. O} So you were working in K i) n w wu ket internal, not in i. 7 MR. Okay. Do you recall who your supervisor was when you worked at the MCC on August 9th and 10th? MS. QJ: 3931 would only know by looking roster. a. Lieutenant a . MR. a: So you report only to a. or do you report to any other COs -. a: No, she’s the only supervisor EFTA00115024

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 21 1 MR. a: During the night. And so 2 both days it was midnight to 8:00 a.m. ies) Hi Yes. m Oo a wu Ae a n a io @ fu bh n Oo wu w n is} ue] oO 4 p- it) Oo KK © n Yes. 10 MR. a: Did Jeffrey Epstein have a 11 cell mate? Yes, he did. N ive) Do you know who it was? 4 MS. a: I don’t know, but I know the 5 inmate went out to court I believe Friday and 16 he didn’t come back from court. I don’t know 7 if he got released from court, but he didn’t 8 come back to the institution that day. How do you know that? Because I work in J. No =) n So, is this from your 22 knowledge from working in || that day or ona 23 later date? 24 MS. a: My knowledge of working in 25 MM that day. EFTA00115025

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 22 w ~] wo 10 11 MR. a: So that’s - okay. Because according to this, you were in || -- MS. a: I was in i. MR. a : -- I mean, you’re in internal. MS. QJ: Right. But this is midnight. My hours in J is from 12:00 to 8:00. MR. QJ: §912:00 to 8:00? So you did work later in the shift -- MS. QJ: 9 Right. MR. i: -- *00:16:56) be on the schedule at all. You’re o that (Indiscernible if] not going to be on this roster. It’s not going to show you as 12:00 to 8:00. MS. a: Custody has a different roster from my department roster. MR. a: Okay. MS. a: So you’re not going to see my department. My department hours would be that - what you see on that timesheet and this is considered overtime. So anything here, where it says, “Additional,” this is overtime because you see the two shifts, the eight up here and the eight at the bottom. MR. QJ: 9 Okay. EFTA00115026

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ho ios) And that’s 16 hours for the MR. ae : So I’m going to go back and 2 day. 2 4 clarify. On August 9th, you worked from 5 midnight to 8:00 a.m. -- Uh-huh. -- and you were in internal. m7 8 MS. aa: Yes. 7 wo F And then after that, what was i=) your wu That was Saturday, the next 2 day That would be midnight the next night. 3 MR. QR: 9 Okay. 4 MS. a: These are all midnight 5 shifts 16 MR. QJ: Midnight shifts. But did you work regular shifts those days? co 10th? No =) Hn b K oO vy x Bb =] 22 Thursday or a Friday and a Saturday. A 23 Saturday, I wouldn’t be in my department, no. 24 4 MR. a : What about Friday? Friday I’m in my department, No w n EFTA00115027

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 24 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 yes, because my department is Monday through Friday. MR. a: And what’s your regular time? MS. QJ: §=12:00 to 8:00. I believe I was working 12:00 to 8:00. I’m not sure. MR. a: That’s midnight to 8:00, right? But midnight to 8:00 -. MS. a: No, no, no, 12:00 p.m. in the afternoon -- MR. QJ: «12:00 p.m. to 8:00. MS. a : -- to 8:00 p.m. MR. a: To 8:00 p.m. So, according to this, you were in internal from - on August 9th, from midnight to 8:00 a.m., then there was a four hour break? Are you saying there was a four hour break and then you worked from -. MS. a: I’m not sure right here based on this because I might have been working 2:00 to 10:00 because I had to do 12:00 8:00 p.m. or 2:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. MR. a: Okay. MS. a : So, based on this, this says, “Regular base.” This might have been from the day shift because this says, “Regular base,” so this might have been, I worked midnight to 8:00 EFTA00115028

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 25 wi ~] 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 in the morning and then maybe 8:00 to 4:00 in my department because I don’t see no - well, I don’t recall my duty hours in my department at that time. MR. a: It’s been a while. MS. a : I’m sorry. Yeah. MR. a : But to follow up though, you said that you knew that Epstein’s cell mate had left because you were working in a. so you probably want to follow up -- MR. a : Okay. MR. a: So that - so, Reyes, how did you first come to learn that he left? MS. a: Because we have to key them out to go to court. I mean, I don’t know actually at that moment that he was Epstein’s cell mate, but when the comment came up that his bunkie, they moved his bunkie, they put him in a cell by himself, and when we learned who that specific inmate was, that’s how I became aware that, no, this guy went to court and he EFTA00115029

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 26 was released from court, wherever he got removed to. Never came back from court. 3 vn. : What do you mean they moved 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 his bunkie to a separate cell? MS. a : They kept saying Epstein was put in a cell by himself, he didn’t have a cell mate. MR. a: Okay. MS. a : That was not the case, he did have a cell mate, but he got released from court or wherever it is the Marshals took him to, that he didn’t come back to MCC. But off the top to say I knew that that was actually his cell mate, I didn’t know that until we became aware of who the inmate was that got released and went to court, because we don’t know who inmate’s cell mates are just by working in i. we just know their bed assignment and what unit they’re coming from. MR. a: No, working the a. are you familiar with something called the court list? MS. a : Yes. MR. a: Was inmate Reyes’s name on the court list? EFTA00115030

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 27 uw ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 MR. a: Do you recall? MS. a: Yeah. Because I think that’s the guy we keyed out to court. MR. a : Okay. And what is a court list? MS. aa: A court list is something we get from the Marshals. They’1ll send us over just a roster of names of inmates to appear for production to the court either going out ona writ, being transferred to another jail. A court list consists of whatever type of movement that the Marshals want the inmates for. It could be appearing before a proffer to tell on somebody, it could just be whatever it is that they need them to appear for the court production for. MR. a: How do the Marshals send it over? MS. a : They always email it or fax it. MR. a: Who receives the email? MS. a: Everybody in i. MR. : Do you recall who was working EFTA00115031

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE 28 MS. a: Yeah, everybody in || receives it, but I couldn’t say off the -- MS. QJ: 9 -- top of my head, “Oh, this person worked,” I don’t remember who worked with me that day. MR. a : So everybody that MR. Ee : -- court sheet, so it doesn’t matter who was working that day or not. a: Right. MR. ae : Everybody would have MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. MR. a: Do you recall receiving that MS. a: I don’t recall receiving the email, but I know we had a court list. MR. ae: Who creates that court list? MS. a: Whoever is doing movement. MR. a: Okay. And what - so you just mentioned all the inmates that’s listed on there anything for movement and the Marshals EFTA00115032

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2 oO 1 send it over -- 2 MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. -- and they email it. And ies) a 4 what do you get? 5 MR a : Email or fax you said, 6 right? 7 MS. a: Email or fax. 8 MR. a: Or fax. 9 MR. a : Is it (Indiscernible 10 *00:22:21) -. 11 MS. a: Well, I believe they were 2 doing both email and faxing at that time. ive) Fs) So you get both. 4 MS. QJ: «9 uh-huh. 16 MR. ae: And once the list comes over, and who did you say creates the court list? 8 MS. a: The movement officer and if 9 the movement officer is not there, whoever is 20 filling in, it might be somebody in the front 21 desk. Just whoever is in the department, 22 they’11 fill out the - complete the court list, 23 put it on a call out and get it prepared so 24 overnight, the officer who is internal can pass 25 it out to the housing unit so the inmates are EFTA00115033

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 30 aware when they wake up the next day or the offic oO rcans “Hey, I got this inmate, I’ve got to get him ready for court the next day.” a: I don’t know if - I don’t know who was the movement officer at that time. MR. a : When you say a movement officer, are you talking about control? No. MR. a : I mean internal? No. (x. || movement officer? We have different position - 5 Okay. MS. have different positions e in | | where everybody had a different function. officer in || basically like will go into internal with (Indiscernible *00:23:21)? No, they are - they are like, transfer orders if inmates are EFTA00115034

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 31 wi ~] 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 moving out of the -- MR. a : Okay. MS. a: -- institution. MR. a : So they’re doing the background of what the internal guy does almost. MS. a: They don’t have anything to do with internal. MR. a : Okay. Because - okay. Sorry. MS. a : It’s - no. MR. a : I’m making more things more (Indiscernible *00:23:38). MS. QJ: Nothing to do with internal. It’s just preparing inmates to move out of the institution, preparing the production list for inmates to - for a unit - for a list to be disseminated to the housing units for the officers to know what inmate has to appear in court the next day. The movement officer might draft up a - get a compile, like a medical summary, transit order, anything that they need to put together for an inmate to be released to move out of the institution to be transferred. That’s what the movement officer does. EFTA00115035

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) lo N MR. Ee : Great. MR. a: Do you recall what your position was in the | | that day? MS. a: I might have been i. MR. QJ: 9 Okay. MS. aa: I might have been i. I don’t believe I was movement but I might have been i. take care of? a. what would you 19) Oo ia n MS. a: Court movement, inmates going in and out, keying them in and out, getting inmates down to my area to get prepared for court, tracking inmates going out to the hospital, keying inmates going out to the hospital, keying inmates coming back. Basically, I would be responsible for like inmates leaving in and out of the institution - MR. BJ: 9 Okay. MS. a: -- and preparing them to get out of the institution. MR. a: We can take a step back. When did the Marshals list normally come over? Do they send it over the night before? EFTA00115036

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 33 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 MS. a: Yes. MR. a: Evening before or they send it the morning of? MS. a : The evening before. MR. a: Around what time? MS. aa: I think it’s always around - it’s approximately between, I would say, maybe 3:00 and 5:00 or - yeah, between like 3:00 and uw :00, something like that. MR. QJ: Okay. And -. MS. a: Around that time frame. It’s not like a set time, it’s whoever does it and faxes it over and emails it. But it was about c 5:0 oO maybe between 3:00 and or 3:00 and 6:00, something like that. MR. a: And then once || receives it, you guys prepare a court list. MS. a: Uh-huh. MR. a: And what does it state on the court list? MS. a: It’s just a document, like a SENTRY created document that show the inmate’s name, his housing unit, if he has a separatee (Phonetic Sp. *00:25:49) in the institution and what time he has to come down to | | to move EFTA00115037

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 34 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 out for court, whether it be that he has court in the a.m. or court in the p.m. MR. aa: Okay. And would it state, like, let’s say if an inmate was leaving and not coming back, would it state on there? MS. a: Yeah, it would say, “WAB,” but most often times, pre-trial is - because they’re not our inmates, they’re Marshals inmates, the Marshals can move them at any given time and just forward us back a disposition of the inmate leaving. “Inmate so and so was released to Probation. Here’s a cut slip for you guys’ file -” - then we can go ahead and key them out. But we don’t key inmates out WAB if they’re going out to court. We key them out - at that time, we were doing what was considered an out count. We weren’t keying inmates out, we were keying them on an out count so we know that we have an account of who went out to court and we have an account of who came back from court. MR. a : So are you saying that you guys wouldn’t remove the inmate completely from the count, you would just leave them under the out count? EFTA00115038

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 35 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. a: Yes. We would only remove him if prior to that list, when we got the list, it says, “Transferred WAB, we’re sending him somewhere to Brooklyn or he’s going back to the state,” that night before we would know that. But sometimes at the spur of the moment, things might arise, a judge might give a person time served, he might commit him to drug treatment program, Probation might come and pick him up. It could be a number of things that take place at court that it might be just a regular court proceeding but then he gets released and he doesn’t come back to the institution. MR. a: Do you recall seeing inmate Efrain Reyes’s name on that list? MS. a : If he was on that list at that time, then I’ve seen it, but I don’t recall now, speaking now, but at that time, yeah, if his name was on the list, yes. MR. a: Do you recall if his - I know you said you don’t recall, but by any chance, would you have known if he left WAB? What does WAB stand for? MS. a: With all belongings, meaning EFTA00115039

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 36 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 they’ re being transferred either to an air lift, transferred to another BOP, transferred to another state institution, that the Marshals will be transferring them to. MR. a: And you don’t recall if he - do you recall if his name was on as WAB on that list? MS. QJ: No. I don’t recall that. MR. a: Okay. We'll come back ina little bit. The court list that you guys create, who does that get sent to? MS. a: It doesn’t get sent to - it gets sent to the unit officers. We don’t email it out, we make hard copies and the internal officer comes around at night and he gives one to each housing unit. MR. a : Around what time? MS. a: Depending on - any time during from midnight to 8:00 in the morning. They have up until to give out that. But most likely, no later than 5:00 a.m., after the 5 o’clock count because at that time, that’s when the institution is opening up after the 5:00 a.m. count, then the inmates will have their breakfast and start preparing for whatever it EFTA00115040

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE lo —] 1 is their day entails. 2 MR. a: Do you recall working that 3 morning in || and seeing inmate Reyes come 3 T g ir id s g 1 eyes 1 . so 4 down? I don’t remember. wi 7) 6 MR Okay. And when the list is 7 sent up to the units, what do they do with it? 8 MS. aa: The unit officers take it and 9 he views it and it just tells him who on his 10 unit has court that day. 11 MR. a: Is a copy of that list 2 maintained anywhere? 3 VR. : =) 4 MR. a: +H. 15 MS. a: No. Because -- t oO a Where do we get it? 7 MS. a: -- once we - once that list 8 is done of the day, we just shred it, we don’t 9 need it : What about what’s used to No i=) id 21 - it sounds like create the list from the 22 Marshals, can we get - can we go back to emails 23 from August 8th, I guess it would be, to get 24 that court list from August 9th? 25 MS. a: If it’s still in the system, EFTA00115041

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 38 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 yeah, you would still - you would be able to see it, yeah. MR. a : And you said at that time, they’re both fax and email so any single person we could just grab an email from them if it was archived? MS. QJ: uh-huh. If it’s still, you know, in the system, but we don’t normally keep court lists. Once we done for that day, everything gets shredded and we start fresh for the next day. So we don’t hold onto court lists. MR. QJ: Okay. MS. QJ: 9 sust something we never did. The only thing we hold onto is transfer orders, people that transferred out, like -. MR. ae : So for instance, with Reyes - when you say “transfer order,” does that also mean released or is that just transferred to a different institution? MS. a: Transferred to a different institution -- MR. I: okay. MS. a: -- because if he got released or he got a disposition, that would be EFTA00115042

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 39 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 something we would place in his file, why he got released. You know you got to have something to show that why you released this inmate, that we didn’t just let him walk out the door, we have this document from the Marshals why we released him. MR. a : So would Reyes have a file like that? MS. a : If it’s not sent to archives and this is 2021, his file would be - his file is probably archived now. MR. a : even though it’s like - my understanding was like August 9th everything was going to be, like, preserved August 9th and 10th. Do you know if that would create it not actually be archived but actually still maintained somewhere? MS. a: You would have to get with mM H w ~ I don’t know. MR. QM: Okay. MS. a: I don’t know. I don’t know. MR. a : Do you know if that court list is used to update the daily log? MS. a: What do you mean? MR. a: Do you know what a daily log EFTA00115043

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 40 Show her. 5 Have you ever seen that? Uh-huh. This is -- Is that -. n | | ive) co MS. It just tracks movement of institution, who went from who went out what unit to what unit, who got keyed out. This is what this is. It just tracks all the movement page for inmate Efrain Reyes. You see next to Can you flip to the third ” “Pre-remove. Do you know what Uh-huh. That means he was there’s a possibility that the Marshals list came over -- MR. QJ: «9 -- with him as a WAB? Uh-huh. Possibility. Yeah. EFTA00115044

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 41 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a: What else could it - why else would you list an inmate as pre-remove? MS. a: We don’t list them as pre- remove, we just key him out as pre-remove. MR. a: So he was keyed out at that Ms. QJ: 9 uh-huh. MR. a: And what time was it keyed out, do you know? Ms. QJ: 98:38. uh-huh. MR. a: And he wouldn’t be - if a person is going to court, what would it be listed as? MS. QJ: =f he’s going to court on this, you wouldn’t see - at that time, you wouldn’t see that he went to court. You would have to run an out count to show who was keyed out to court. So, you wouldn’t be able to see that on this because this just tracks who came into the institution, who left the institution and what housing units they were transferred from, whether they came out of SHU or they went to SHU or they got moved from one unit, housing unit, to another housing unit or if they’re - Say an inmate got sentenced, this would show EFTA00115045

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 42 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 you that he might have went from a A-pre, meaning a pre-trial inmate to a hold, he might have pled guilty so now he’s longer a pre-trial and he’s waiting sentencing. So this would just show you stuff like that. Or he became a designated inmate and he’s a BOP inmate. MR. a: How would you be able to see the difference between an inmate that just left for court and was coming back and an inmate that left? Ms. QJ: 9 on this? MR. QJ: Yeah. Can you? MS. a: Yeah, you could just see - well, you don’t know, you just know that they were pre-removed. So you don’t know, looking at this, why they were pre-removed. MR. Ee : So I guess what he means though, is if someone is just going to court and didn’t go to court WAB versus someone who went to court WAB, would they be coded differently on that? Ms. QJ: 9 No. EFTA00115046

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 43 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) w ~ t that time, we weren’t - if = 77 ty the inmate went to court and he was a WAB, we would key him out pre-remove or hold-remove. So yes, but - I’m trying to think, what did you m just say. Say it again. MR. a : So I guess, is there a differentiation, if someone is WAB, are they coded as pre-remove if they’re just going to court and they don’t have WAB next to their name on that form, would it just say something different, like “Court?” MS. aa: No, you wouldn’t see WAB on this form. You -. MR. ae : No, no, no, I’m not saying like you would see WAB on that form -- MS. J: 9 uh-huh. MR. ae : -- I’m just saying like, if an inmate goes to court, are they always listed as pre-remove? MS. EJ: No, ERRRRM be hold-remove. MR. ae : And what’s the difference? So is it either pre-remove or hold-remove? MS. a: Or bail bond. MR. a : Or bail bond. And can EFTA00115047

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 44 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you -. MS. QJ: or time served. MR. a : Okay. So, when they’re leaving and - so it sounds like the latter to that are totally different things. But if -. MS. a: Well, no. They could be on the court list and they could appear and go out to court as a court and they might get ordered to time served. MR. QM: uh-huh. MS. a : So, now, we have them on an out count as going to court because we weren’t keying inmates physically out of the institution, we were placing them on an out count. So you would send them out to court as a court, but if you got a disposition back from the Marshals stating that, “Inmate so and so was sentenced to time served,” now you would go back in the system and you would key him out, time served. So it doesn’t necessarily mean that they could be on the court list as a WAB because that doesn’t always happen. Sometimes they do get released straight from the courthouse and never come back to the jail, so those things do happen. EFTA00115048

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 45 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a : And that’s what ha- so, what we’re trying to get to is, is there any way by looking at that, we can determine if Reyes, when he left at 8:38, had a WAB next to his name. MS. a: Not from looking at this, no. MR. a : The only way we would be able to determine that is by getting that court list? MS. a: Yes. MR. a : All right. And -. MS. QJ: 9 Because the Marshals could have sent something back over and said, “Inmate so and so is not coming back, he’s going with Probation.” He could have had a court appearance and he could have - it could have been with his probation officer and at that time, the judge could have said whatever and sentenced the inmate to probation. So now, he’s not coming back to the institution, now we've got to pre-remove him. It just all depends on what happened at court and it all depends on what his status was prior to going EFTA00115049

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 46 1 to court, what we got far as the court list. 2 So I couldn’t tell that just by looking at ies) ct y wu rt 4 MR. a : When the Marshals send they s w oO 0 int 5 w rt 0 0 H b ct pb 0) oO nd over, did 6 have WAB on their form? Oo [es] at © < a} J ~ = wu e 10 MR. a : So, if we get one of WwW he o wn 5 something that you create and write WAB, they 16 actually would have it on email. 8 MR. 9 MS. e that 20 until we get their list. 21 MR. QJ: uh-huh. 23 on their list and then we hat’s - we go by what’s ype it up and we 24 disseminate it to EFTA00115050

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 47 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 your - so, my understanding though is that not everybody that goes to court is WAB. MS. a: That’s correct. MR. a : And just to make sure that we are understanding correctly on that, so people that just go to court, would they also be listed as pre-remove? MS. a: They could possibly be, yes. MR. a : Just possibly, but -. MS. a: It could possibly be because the Marshals might call you and say, “Hey, we got inmate so and so, he’s not coming back, he’s going with the state,” and they’1l send us a cut slip. Yeah. MR. a : No, that’s after the fact though, after they’ve already left? MS. a: That can possibly happen after they left, yes. MR. Ee : So if we’re looking at this thing on Reyes where it says 8:38, is that what was entered for him at 8:38 or is it that could have been changed later on, the pre- remove thing? MS. a: It just depends on what time he went out. I don’t know because it could EFTA00115051

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 48 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 have been changed. Well, no. Well, I can’t tell you just by looking at this. MR. a : So, all right, so this doesn’t tell us anything? MS. a: It tells you that he was removed from the institution. MR. QJ: «at 8:38 though. MS. BJ: 9 ves. MR. a : And I guess, so - and MS. a: Because at one point in time, how we key inmates out now is not how we were keying inmates out then. We didn’t key them out, we just placed them on the out count. So, if we keyed them on an out count, they would show off of the unit population but they would still be on the institutional count. MR. a : Okay. MS. a : Now, how we key them out, they’re off the institutional count and they’re off the unit count. So when we key them out now for court, they - it’s like they never - they’ re not here in the institution at all. MR. a : Okay. So for these people that were on this pre-remove, does that EFTA00115052

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 49 1 mean at 8:38, pre-remove, that he was taken off 2 of the institutional count? MS. a: Yes. 6 MR. a : And is there - I do see a few pre-removes on there though. 8 MS. QJ: «9 uh-huh. ies) i) Ss. wi th oO a H uo there 10 that went to court that wasn’t I don’t know. nN ive) Fs) You can’t tell by looking 4 at that? All right. So that basically doesn’ 5 tell us anything about him being WAB or not. 16 MS. a: Right. I can’t tell you who 7 went to court. 8 MR. a : Okay. We just need to wo 1Q o ct ct 7 rm] ct Qa o rf HK rt k bh it) + No rary ct + Bb it) 24 back to the institution. EFTA00115053

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 50 ies) w ~] oo wo i=) ive) w the Marshals brough him back. MR. a: But - okay. So if there is pre-removed, that means he MS. a: He’s gone. MR. a: He’s gone. MS. QJ: «Right. MR. a : And he’s not expected to come back? MS. a: Correct. MR. QJ: Okay. All right. I did ss that. All right. So when you list them n Q 12] o 0) r 0) 13) | p- n m as pre-remove, he’s going to court, he’s not expected to come back. MS. a: Correct. MR. a : So at 8:38, Reyes was gone and not expected to return. MS. a: Yes. MR. a : Okay. Now, is the Marshals supposed to send over a confirmation that he’s not coming back? Because you mentioned something about them being keyed as something different when they are officially gone, like they’re off the books. MS. a: No, this would be officially off the books, a pre-remove. EFTA00115054

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 51 1 ve. SN: okay. 2 MS. QJ: «But what the question was, 3 would I know at this time, was he a WAB, I 4 would only know that if I looked at the court 5 list at that time, then I can determine that, 6 “Okay, yeah, we keyed him out that way because 7 he was leaving with all his belongings,” Or, 8 “No, we keyed him out that way because we got a 9 disposition later and stated that he wasn’t 10 coming back.” I can’t just say, just by 11 looking at this, “Oh, well, we keyed him out 12 that way because he was a WAB.” Now, I can 13 look at this GCT release and this full term 14 release or this treaty transfer and tell you 15 that these were guys that were getting full 16 term release from the jail and they were not 17 coming back. But - and I can also say that 18 he’s not coming back, but I can’t tell you why 19 he was pre-removed. I don’t know the 20 circumstances of why he was pre-removed. I 21 would have to go back to his folder, look in 22 his folder, pull up his documents of why we 23 keyed him out. I can’t just say, “Oh, yeah, 24 because he left with all his belongings, oh, it 25 was a court -” - I can’t -. EFTA00115055

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. Ee : So you can’t tell that, 2 but you can tell 8:38 he left and was not uw ie) ies) expected to return. 5 MR. QM: Okay. So that’s 6 basically the same thing. So, anybody that 7 knew that Reyes was gone at 8:38, like he was, 8 knew very unlikely to return. 9 MS. a: Everybody don’t have - 10 everybody doesn’t look at this. 3 reason to look at this, you’re not going to 4 look at this and everybody - t wi a But anybody that had the 16 - whatever you used to code him out like that, they would have had that court list and 8 they would have had the same - they would have 9 known the reason why he was leaving though, 20 correct? 21 MS. QJ: «Right. 22 MR. ae : And that he wasn’t 23 expected to return? 25 MR. a : So, okay. So not EFTA00115056

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) uw ios) specifically that document, but what you used to key him out, they would know. MS. a: Uh-huh. MR. a : so, okay. So, based upon the fact that he was pre-removed by i. for instance, the unit he came from, the Special Housing Unit, they should have known he left and was very likely not returning. MS. a: They wouldn’t know that. The officers on the unit would not know that. MR. Ee : Even if they had the court list and that’s where they’re grabbing him from? MS. a: If the - let me tell you something. I’m trying to figure out how to say this. Everybody that reads a document, do not know what they’re reading. MR. QJ: okay. MS. a: Everybody that pulls SENTRY, does not know how to read a SENTRY n up document. MR. : | veah. MS. a: So I can’t say, “Yes,” that they should know that or, “No.” MR. a : If they knew how to read EFTA00115057

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 54 1 the court list, they would know. 2 MS. a: Yes. a : Got you. ies) i 5 MR. a : Yeah, you can’t certainly 6 can’t say he knew that because you don’t even 7 know who we’re talking about. wo a But I’m just saying, like 10 the information would have been on there if 11 they knew how to interpret it. 2 Ms. RJ: 9 right. 3 MR. a : Okay. 4 MR. a: we might have covered this 15 already, but if we wanted to go back and 16 retrieve that court document, like get a copy, 7 what’s the best way we can do it? 8 MS. a: You probably need to get with 9 the Marshals because they’re the ones that 20 create that list that they sent to us in order 21 for production. 22 MR. a: Are you aware if they retain 23 it or not? 24 MS. a: I don’t know nothing about 25 what they do with their -- EFTA00115058

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2 MS -- 3 MR 5 it’s emailed to ev 6 vu. Qa: wo F 10 11 document, the cour 2 Lieutenant’s log? 3 MS. t oO a log, the wo wi Okay. documents. No problem. No, well, she said that erybody -- Yeah. Uh-huh. Now, after reviewing that, do you know if that daily log - if the court t list is used to update the yeah, yeah. And the daily log. Right. Okay. We covered this. And entries that are made on it, 8 is it made at the time that it’s keyed in or is 9 it - can it be edited later? 20 MS. a: When you “edited,” what 21 do you mean? 22 MR. a: Can someone go in a couple 23 hours later and key in saying that, “Hey, 24 listen, this person left at 8:38.” 25 MS. a: I don’t think so because EFTA00115059

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 56 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 everybody that actually - you have a certain time frame to key inmates in and you have a certain time frame to key inmates out. MR. a: And what’s the time frame? MS. a : If inmates - but sometimes in i. we don’t always get to sit down at the computer right then and there and key them out, because we’re dealing with the Marshals, they’ re walking out with one guy, we still have somebody else we might have to strip out. We’re still dealing with this, we’re dealing with the phone. When an inmate is being released, you’re supposed to key them out right then and there, but you have up to a minimum of at least, I think it’s an hour or two hours, to key somebody in that’s coming in the institution. But, like I said, just looking at this, it just tells you the time he was keyed out. I don’t know if he was picked up earlier and already taken to the courthouse, then he was keyed out, pre-removed after, I couldn’t - I can’t answer that. I don’t know. It’s not - I can’t answer that. MR. a: Now thinking back about the possibility that you were working in | | that EFTA00115060

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a H A H 1] o oO ny Hy H Qa Ht He a ion n tm w —] ies) w ~] oo wo i=) ive) w HM: vh-huh. MR. ae : -- do you recall if he was removed or not that day and what time he was removed? MS. I don’t recall. I just know that when they talked about the inmate, they brought up the inmate and that’s when, you know, we realized, “Oh, that was the guy that went to court and didn’t come back.” MR. Where can the daily log be found or accessed? is] MS. MR. K i] n MS. SENTRY. MR. And who would have access to MS. Mainly everybody in the institution. MR. QJ: Everyone can access it. Can everyone make the changes on it? MS. a: No, you can’t make changes on this. MR. a : Who can make changes on that? MS. a: You cannot make changes to EFTA00115061

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE uw o 1 this. 2 MR. a: So, that is basically the 3 keyed in information. 4 MS. ae: MR. QJ: 9 Okay. This is like a tracker. 5 6 It just shows you all the 7 moves and when it was moved - when the person 8 was moved. So this, you cannot just change. 9 Only thing you can do is put in what you want. 10 It’s just a log, it just pulls up a log. 11 MR. QJ: 9 Okay. 2 MS. a: So this is not nothing you 3 can change, no. 4 MR. a: What about the Lieutenant’s 15 log? Who would have access to that? 16 MS. a: The Lieutenants. 7 MR. a: Does anyone else have access? 8 MS. a: Maybe the Captain. 9 MR. a : Where can it be accessed 20 from? 21 MS. a: The Lieutenant’s office. 22 MR. a: Can it be accessed from 23 Control? 24 MS. a: I don’t know about now, but 25 at that time, no. EFTA00115062

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 uw wo MR. a: Okay. Do you recall if you reviewed the daily log that day? MS. a: No, I don’t remember. MR. a : And based on that, it shows inmate Reyes is pre-remove. As per your understanding, that means that he left the institution and he’s not coming back. MS. Right. MR. Okay. Do you utilize the daily log as part of your job every day? MS. a : Yes. MR. a: And how do you utilize it? MS. a : To make sure I key the inmate out that’s out of the institution. To account for how many inmates I keyed out. That’s what I use it for in i. MR. a: Okay. And you’re not sure what shift you worked but you believe that you worked in || between 8:00 and 4:00 or 12:00 and 8:00? MS. a: 8:00 to 4:00 or maybe - I was only working two shifts at that time. I’m doing 12:00 to 8:00 now. But it might have been 8:00 to 4:00 or 2:00 to 10:00. One of those two hours. Between those two shifts. EFTA00115063

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 60 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) MR. QJ: 9 Okay. MS. a: Because at one point, I only strictly worked the evening shift, so. MR. ae: When inmates leave through i. do you normally see them leaving through i: MS. a: Yes. MR. a: Do you recall having a conversation with Reyes at all? MS. a: I couldn’t tell you if I spoke to that man or not. I speak to so many inmates, I don’t know. MR. a: Well, the better question is, if you (Indiscernible *00:48:06) -. MS. a: I couldn’t even tell you what he looks like. MR. a: That’s my next question. So you wouldn’t happen to know who Reyes - what -. MS. a: I would only know who he is by ID-ing him, his name and his number and his ID card when he comes on down. MR. QJ: 9 Okay. MS. a: There’s so many inmates in here. I don’t know. MR. ae: Now when did you become aware EFTA00115064

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 61 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of Reyes being moved from the MCC? Officially become aware. MS. a: I think when he spoke about - when they - when it was, you know, rumored that the inmate, “Oh, they put him in a cell by himself,” and when I heard about that, you know, it was like, “Oh, well, no, his actual, his bunkie just didn’t come back from court.” MR. a: When did you hear about this? Was it the same day? Was it in the evening? MS. a : No, it was around the time of when all the commotion was going on after his passing. MR. QJ: So this is the next day. MS. a: Pretty much, yeah. MR. a: Do you recall if there was any conversation in regards to -. MR. a : What is the day of his passing, the day after August 9th I think is what you mean. Is that what you mean? MS. a: No, like, during the time he passed, you know. You know, a lot of people were saying, speculating though, he was a suicidal person, he was placed in a cell by himself and that’s when, you know, it was like, EFTA00115065

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 62 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 “No, well, he did have a bunkie.” His cell mate went out to court and that’s when we all became aware of, you know, who his cell mate was. MR. a : And what conversations were had with regards to the cell mate and leaving for court and not coming back at that time? MS. a : I don’t think anyone was pretty much aware that that was his cell mate that didn’t come back, so I don’t - it was just that the conversation was, “Oh, he was placed in a cell by himself,” That was what was speculated. MR. a : Now, working in i. when inmates do not come back from court, does || then notify custody that these people didn’t come back? How does that work? MS. a : The Control Center tracks who got keyed out. The Lieutenant, they’1ll track who got keyed out and that’s primarily it. MR. a : So || never contacts either Control or the Housing Unit or the Lieutenant saying, “Hey, these are people that went out and these are people that came back. EFTA00115066

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 These people are not coming back.” MS. EJ: No. MR. a: So | | would not have notified, for instance, the SHU Saying Reyes didn’t come back? MS. aa: They would be - not unless they called us to say they had a bad count or they had a miscount or something or maybe the inmate left to court and didn’t come back, but no. MR. a : Okay. Because they - a lot of people have told us they usually get calls from || saying, “Hey, this guy didn’t come back.” That’s -. MS. a: There are times that we do - like if an inmate has property upstairs, we might say, “Hey, inmate so and so is not coming back, pack up his property.” MR. QJ: Okay. MS. QJ: 9 There have been times, yes. MR. a : But in this case, with him being pre-removed, there would have been no notification that would have been made by || saying, “He didn’t come back?” MS. a: Not if we didn’t need to, no. EFTA00115067

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 64 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a : No? So it would only be a need be basis, not - because a lot of them were saying, like, “Hey, he was pre-removed but we don’t know if he’s actually, you know, definitely removed and not coming back until about 4:00 p.m. MS. a: Right. That is true. And not even 4:00 p.m. because there’s times that the judges, the courts are late. Some inmates don’t come back until 7:00, 8 o’clock at night. MR. a : Well, they did clarify that. They said, “Usually until 4:00 p.m. and as late as 8:00 p.m.” MS. QJ: 9 Right. MR. a : But in those instances though, | | doesn’t contact whomever and say, “Hey, this guy didn’t come back.” Or is it -. MS. a: The only people that would keep track of that would be the Control Center and the Lieutenant’s office. MR. a : Okay, so -. MS. a : You know, we key them out and whatever we key out, we send down to the Control Center so the Control Center has a copy of who was keyed out and they kind of go in the EFTA00115068

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 65 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 system and check and see if the inmates were keyed out. It’s like a checks and balance for the institution because you might have an inmate on the list showing that he left, but he’s not keyed out of the system. So there’s supposed to be like a checks and balance for us upstairs as well. MR. QJ: Okay. So, when people argue that they didn’t know that Reyes wasn’t definitely coming back, how do they determine and at what point do they determine, “He’s not back, Epstein needs a new cell mate?” MS. a : If they don’t know he needs a cell mate, nobody would know, nobody would -. MR. a : But if they know he needs a cell mate, at what point do they say, “Yeah, Reyes isn’t back, we need to get him a new cell mate?” MS. a : I couldn’t tell you because you don’t know if that inmate - if you don’t know that inmate is coming back, you don’t know to say, “Hey, so and so needs a cell mate.” And if you don’t know, you just don’t know. MR. a : Okay. So, at what point should Control then at some point though call EFTA00115069

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 66 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the SHU And say, “Reyes isn’t coming back?” MS. a: If the count is not bad, they wouldn’t know to call them and say - they wouldn’t say that, no. MR. a : So the SHU very well may never have been contacted or would have been contacted saying, “Reyes isn’t coming back, consider him gone.” MS. a : Correct. MR. a : Okay. So they would have only known that based upon doing rounds and counts is what you’re saying? MS. a : Right. But if they don’t know that he needs a cell mate, because I don’t believe there was any notification that another individual had to be placed in a cell with him so, nobody would know that. Even if you are making rounds and counting your unit, you wouldn’t know that we need - if there’s no notification. MR. a : Well, notifications were made and the people are saying that they passed it along to other shifts saying, “Yes, he’s required to have a cell mate.” However, they’re saying, “Reyes is gone, possibly not EFTA00115070

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 67 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 returning. Make sure you get him a bunkie if he doesn’t.” So it’s kind of like, at what point does it determine -- MR. a : -- when is Reyes not getting a bunkie - when is Reyes not coming home, coming back. MS. QJ: 9 Right. MR. a : We’ve also been told by a number of people though, they say, yi would call us to say, ‘Yeah, Reyes isn’t coming back,’” but to you, you’re saying, “No, that doesn’t happen. We don’t call SHU, we wouldn’t have called them to say Reyes -.” MS. a: It’s a possibility we could have called, but then sometimes we don’t call. You know, if there’s a miscount, there would be no reason for us to call, we would just key the inmate out. Sometimes they’ll call us back and say, “Hey, inmate so and so went out to court, is he coming back?” Some units will call us and ask. MR. a : So they’1l call you rather than the other way around. MS. a: Sometimes they’1ll call us, EFTA00115071

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 68 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 yep. MR. QJ: 411 right. MS. a: But the only way they’1l know that the inmate might - and then, because of the shift change, you might have an officer from these specific set of hours and then now you have a new officer coming in at these specific set of hours. They won’t know who went out to court unless they read their court list or they look at their log, they probably wouldn’t know. And if they’re doing a count and their count is what it’s supposed to be, they won’t know. MR. QJ: So you’re a very unique person that we’re talking to as both - has both sets of knowledge with the fact that you’ve worked with custody as well as non-custody and you know how these things work when people are removed. If the people in the SHU knew, and let’s say, let’s just for this example, say everybody in the SHU knows -- MS. EJ: 9 uh-huh. MR. a : -- that Epstein is required to have a cell mate. Reyes leaves at 8:30, he has a pre-removal. At what time do EFTA00115072

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE o io 1 you believe they should have reassigned a new 2 cell mate to Epstein? 3 MS. a: Well, if they knew that he 4 was a pre-removal, then they would be trying to 5 work on that immediately as soon as possible. 2 n mw | i=) a: And if that was what was MR . a : Let’s say the OIC knows he’s WAB likely -- 4 MS. QJ: «9 uh-huh. 5 MR. a : -- not to return. No Fs WwW wu on n 13) a = ct @ a ke t oO nH = i) | J i= 7 MR. ae : Do you believe that he 8 should have immediately then started working on 9 a new cell mate? 20 MS. a: He would notify the Lieutenant 21 know, “Hey, move -” - that’s what he would do - 23 MR. QM: and if -. 24 MS. a: -- if that was what was EFTA00115073

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LIMITED ies) w co ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE 70 MR. Ee : So and if their arguments are, let’s say the Lieutenants and the WTHatl oc That’s premature, arguing, return. So we pass it on to the next “” aa: Well, it is premature if you don’t know that the inmate is not coming back. MR. a : In this ca he’s WAB, do you believe it’s still premature? a: No, if he is WAB, but looking I don’t know. MR. a : No, no, no. saying -. wo e though, if wu rt MR. ae : I’m just saying -- MR. QJ: -- if he was was. “Yeah, he was WAB, he had his brown paper he had all of his stuff.” MR. ae : And so think of that let’s say that’s what happened. that point, do you EFTA00115074

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 71 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 think it’s still premature or you think at time it’s appropriate? MS. a: No, if it was - okay. If it was known that this inmate was leaving and he wasn’t coming back and if it was known that this individual needed to have someone else in the cell with him, then yes, at that time, it would be required to replace or move him ina cell with somebody else. So, yeah. MR. a : So when you’re saying “known” though, so, I mean, known that he’s WAB, so does that -. MS. a : Known that he’s WAB and also known that this individual requires a cell mate at all time, cannot be housed alone. Now, there are some inmates that have to rec in cell alone and there are signs on their doors and there are some inmates that might be required to have a cell mate. But if there’s no notification, and I work a unit and this is not my normal unit and I’m working this unit and I’m just filling in here and there and I’m working and I don’t know and there’s nothing placed on the walls that state that or on this inmate’s - on the door or maybe on my EFTA00115075

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 72 w ~] wo 10 11 clipboard, I wouldn’t know that. MR. a : No, no, no. So what I’m saying, and I’m not talking about - I think you’re probably specifically talking about like Tova and Michael Thomas. I’m talking about in the morning at 8:38 a.m., prior to that time -- MS. a: Uh-huh. MR. a : -- they get a court list, WAB, the OIC says, “Yeah, he’s WAB, he’s likely not to return, he’s got his bag, you know, I’m taking him down, I’m giving him off.” I know, he says, “I know Epstein is required to have a cell mate.” MS. a: Oh, well, if he knows it. MR. a : But, is it a legitimate argument in your opinion to say, “Placing Epstein with a new cell mate is premature because Reyes could return.” Is that a valid argument? MS. QJ: 9=well, based on what you just said, knowing -- MR. ae : With WAB and with knowing MS. a: -- knowing -- MR. a: -- Epstein requires, EFTA00115076

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 ~) a right. MS. a: -- that he’s WAB, that would not be premature because he’s leaving. MR. QJ: Right. MS. a: Now, if for some reason it gets canceled and they say, “Hey, we’re not moving this inmate, we’re going to move him at a later time,” because those things do happen. His trip - he got canceled. But knowing that he’s going to be leaving, I don’t think that that would be premature, no. MR. a : So if he leaves at 8:38 in the morning and the OIC shift ends at 2:00 p-m., does that - is there -- Ms. QJ: 94:00. MR. Ee : -- would he know that that trip got canceled? I guess the way I would be asking, he knows the guy left at 8:38 WAB and, I guess, by that time, I would think by 2:00 p.m., if a trip got canceled they would know, correct? MS. a: Yeah, because the inmate would have went back upstairs. MR. QJ: Right. So -- MS. a: He would have went back to EFTA00115077

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LIMITED ~] wo 10 11 OFFICIAL USE the unit. MR. a : -- how often do inmates that go WAB and their trips don’t get canceled, how often do those inmates actually return? MS. a: Oh, they go upstairs immediately. MR. a : No, no, no. So I’m saying, if Reyes is listed as WAB and he left at 8:30 in the morning, his trip didn’t get canceled by 2:00 p.m. because he never came back upstairs. How often do the WAB inmates actually come back to the institution? MS. a: It has happened with inmates going on an airlift. The Marshals take inmates all the way out of the institution and then have to bring them all the way back. It has happened. MR. a : And let’s say if -- MS. a: On occasion. MR. EJ: -- out of 100 -- MS. a: I’1l say about, if I had to count, maybe about - it’s happened, it’s happened. EFTA00115078

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 75 1 MR. Ee : But I mean, doe 2 happen like very random and seldomly or does it it is] happen like, ah, one out of five times this ies) 4 happens? Or are we talking about like one out w 00 or one of 1,000? Mm: ay maybe like 10 out of oF) 8 MR. a : So about 10 percent of ts) ct ah o i=) nN ive) 4 time? All right. oO fee) ct a 0) wu po ai bb bh Hh ct ~ rt J 0) paperwork is not right. wo 21 MR. ae : -- with keeping that in 22 mind that 10 percent of the time that has 23 happened, then do tu believe that is slightly wy h 24 a valid argument to say, Yeah, we know that he 25 needs a new cell mate but we don’t think it’s EFTA00115079

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE fon) 1 appropriate to do it in this shift, it should 2 be done on the next shift when we verify he’s Ww iS] Bh act not coming back. 4 MS. a: Yeah. I would say that is w wu Oo ‘do 6 Oo ue} K im fu ct 0) 7 a: Because you don’t know. You 8 9 change. So I would say that is appropriate. 10 MR Now it’s different 1 with, you’re saying airlift. Now we’re talking ive) for court. 5 MS. a: -- could be pre-removed. But what I’m saying is -- t oO a Les] 5 | | k rt ~ U =) wo ion i) a a] oc 7 ii) ct 7 om 9 person is going to c¢ 20 MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. 21 MR. ae : Nothing to do with 22 transports getti EFTA00115080

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 77 1 to court WAB actually return? 2 MS. a: They mostly go. 3 MR. a : So is it like maybe one 4 in 100? 5 MS. a: Maybe one in 100 that might 6 have came back, but most of the time they go. 7 MR. a : So even one in 100 is 8 like, yeah, no, they’re pretty much always 9 gone? 10 MS. QJ: 9 Yeah. 11 MR. Ee : So then that argument of ive) Hi It got to be something 4 drastic that they might have come back, but w most of the time they go. 16 MR. Ee : So that argument that we 7 needed to wait until verification, that really 8 doesn’t hold weight then if they know he was 9 going to court WAB. 20 MS. QJ: =f they know he was going to 21 court WAB, yeah. 22 MR. ae : Then the argument doesn’t 23 hold weight? 24 MS. a: It’s a catch 22 because I’ve 25 seen so many things that have happened that you EFTA00115081

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 78 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) is might think somebody is gone and they bring him back. MS. a: He might get on that side and something might come up in his paperwork where they’re like, “Uh-oh, we got a new case, we got a new charge. Oh, we’re not transferring him. We got to sort this out.” I mean, it has happened where somebody has come back to the jail, but most of the time, they do go. MR. a : And it sounds like that’s extremely rare -- MR. a : -- circumstance. MS. J: 9 uh-huh. MR. QJ: 411 right. MR. a : So at that point, do you think that they should have taken action tw WA immediately if they knew it was MR. a: Going to court. Knowing the tw Q oing to court. fact that Epstein needed a cell mate. We know Reyes left, Epstein needed a cell mate. The EFTA00115082

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ~) wo OIC and the SHU officers knew that he needed a cell mate. Should they have taken action immediately? MS. a : Maybe they should have notified their supervisor. MR. a: Who would they have notified if this -. MS. a: The SHU Lieutenant and let them know that, “Hey -.” MR. QJ: | (indiscernible *01:03:51) no SHU Lieutenant (Indiscernible *01:03:52). Should it be the Ops Lieutenant (Indiscernible *01:03:55) Lieutenant? MS. QJ: 9 The Ops or the Acting Lieutenant notify, “Hey, we got bunk inmate so up with so and so, he can’t be housed by himself.” MR. a : Okay. MS. a : But, like I said, communication around here is not at its best. MR. QJ: uh-huh. MS. a: So what should have happened, what should have taken place, might not necessarily happen because everybody doesn’t know everything that’s going on around here. EFTA00115083

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 80 MR. J: ae. MS. a: Everybody does not communicate the way that they should, so you might know it, but just because you know it, you might assume I know it and we’re working together. Not necessarily true. MR. a : Sure. And yeah, we would only go off of what people tell us directly -- I knew it.” MR. a : You know, so -. MS. a: Because it’s not - like, if I was working up there, that’s not my normal unit. If I was working up there, I would not know that. MR. QJ: Right. MS. a: You know, if I’m coming from another department and that’s not my steady post, I would not know that. MR. ae : Absolutely. MS. a: So, what should happen -. MR. a : Yeah, and that’s why we're listing people like OIC, SHU Lieutenant, EFTA00115084

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 81 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) Ops Lieutenant, Activities Lieutenant, these people that -. MS. a: Or maybe Psychology. MR. QJ: Right. MS. a: You know, so it’s hard to say yes and no, but if, you know, someone knew, then yes. But everybody that works in this institution, we’re all over the place sometimes. We don’t know, we don’t know everything about every unit. So that’s the unfortunate part. MR. a : Do you recall anyone calling | | looking for the status of Reyes that day? MS. a: I don’t remember, no. I’m not going - I don’t remember that, no. MR. Ee : What was your question? MR. a: Did she recall anyone from the SHU calling inquiring the status of Reyes MR. QJ: 411 right. that topic before -. MR. a : I don’t think so, we kind of beat it. MR. ae: Now, you worked Control EFTA00115085

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) August 10th night? MS. a: Uh-huh. MR. a: As a CO in Control, when would you be notified that an inmate is being removed? MS. QJ: «when would I be notified -- MS. aa: -- that an inmate is being removed? MR. a: Yeah, if you’re working in Control. Ms. QJ: 9=well, that would be -. MR. a : Well, she just said || doesn’t call them to tell them. MS. a: No, we give them - we send them paperwork. So, you have a Control two number person in the Control Center that verifies our key out moves against our paperwork we send them. So this is what the Control Center would use as well to track -- MR. a: A daily log? MS. a: -- to track the moves and make sure that these individuals are keyed out. So, now as a Control Center Officer, you might call as the number two, I mean, I said the 82 EFTA00115086

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 83 1 2 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 number one because the number two person does it. The number two person, which is an accounts and assignment person, they would call - this is primarily on day watch and evening watch because there’s no movement on morning watch, not unless it’s an emergency, but you’re not moving nobody on morning watch. So on day watch and evening watch, if you see that inmates were moved around or a counselor calls you in Control and say, “Hey, I’m moving inmate so and so from this unit to this unit,” then as a Control Center Officer, what I would do, I’m not going to say what everybody else would do, I would call over the radio, “Hey, unit officers, if you lost an inmate or you gained an inmate, call Control and verify your base count.” And I would say - they would say, “Oh, inmate so and so left and I have 87.” Or, they might give me a wrong count. I’m like, “No, that’s bad, you need to check your base count, verify who left the unit.” But that’s what I would do. But most often times, the Control Center Officer would look at this and see who’s moved and verify it with an E-1 and make sure everything is accurate. EFTA00115087

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE B4 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a: So once they are notified, what would the Control Officer update that you wanted? MS. a : We have what we call the running board. So, with a running board, you have the starting base of one unit and then the ending base of the unit. So if an inmate went out to the hospital, might have been 86, he went out to hospital, 87, he came - I mean, 85, he came back now, his base is back to 86. So, it would be -. MR. a: Nothing like this. This is the -- MS. QJ: uh-huh. Yeah. MR. a: This is the E-1 document, is this what you’re talking about? MS. a: Uh-huh. No, that’s an E-l, I’m talking about a running board. It’s just a dummy document we create just to track all the moves to like a paper to just verify the counts MR. a : Okay. MS. a: -- basically checks and balance. So like, if I see that this inmate was moved from five, he was pre-remove, and EFTA00115088

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 85 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that unit count was 85, I would just write, “Inmate pre-removed,” and I would have a paper log of what that unit count should be. MR. a : Okay. MS. a : Because even my paper log might be accurate but my computer log might be wrong because this person might not have keyed the inmate out. MR. a: So, let’s talk about that. Has there been situations where inmates get moved around and not get keyed out? MS. a: Yeah. That has happened. MR. a : How does that happen? Isn’t there balance and checks to make sure that nothing like that happens? MS. a: There are supposed to be balance and checks, yes. But sometimes people move inmates and they fail to report to maybe the officer or they fail to notify the Control, “I’m moving inmate from this unit to this unit,” or something might happen on a unit, an inmate might get locked up and you’re in the Control Center, you know, you’re doing whatever you hear, an emergency on a unit, you don’t know what’s going on, you don’t know if the EFTA00115089

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE B86 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 inmate is going out to the hospital until somebody actually physically calls you and say, “Hey, I’ve got an inmate that’s locked up (Indiscernible *01:10:14),” or if you’re not looking at the camera, you see them moving this inmate from this unit and walking him into SHU and you'll call that unit, “Hey, you got one locked - who got locked up?” You might call the Unit Officer and ask those questions. So, it has happened. MR. a: Whose responsibility would it be if they’re moving an inmate, to key it in? MS. a : To key it in? Depending on what type of move it is. If it’s a unit to unit move, that would be the Unit Management, Unit Team. If an inmate is getting locked up from the unit and going to SHU, the Control Center Officer might move that unit, move that inmate from the unit to SHU or SHU might key that inmate into SHU. So, it just depends who does it. MR. a : So, and it can be one of those things that in a situation, let’s say an inmate gets moved. The SHU Officer can be like, “Ah, no Control will do it.” And Control EFTA00115090

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 87 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lieutenant will be like, “No, the SHU will do it.” Is it one person that’s actually responsible to make sure that it gets keyed in? MS. a: Well, a lot of times things happen. Like I said, around here, you might have a Lieutenant go to a unit and then walk an inmate out and the inmate gets locked up. Or you might have an inmate that’s suicidal and he gets placed on suicide watch so now he’s not in the unit, he’s in suicide watch. Or you might have an inmate that was taken off of suicide watch, might be put in a housing unit or SHU, you don’t know unless somebody notifies you because when you’re in the Control, you’re answering phones, you’re looking at a keypad, you might be looking up and down but you’re not constantly on the camera so you won’t know unless somebody actually notifies you and say, “Hey, we’re moving inmate so and so.” So, a lot of times, you just have to - if you got an inmate that you received a new inmate, call Control, verify your base because you won’t always know everything. MR. aaa: So you’re saying it should have been on the SHU Officer to make sure that, EFTA00115091

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 “Hey, listen, this inmate is being moved. she even notify Control, “Hey, listen.” MS. a: If the officer of a uni knows that his inmate got locked up, he’s supposed to be calling Control saying, “I got an inmate that’s locked up, he went t SHU.” SHU now needs to be calling Contro “Hey, I got one, so and so on my base cou Everybody is supposed to be calling. MR. a: Okay. MS. a : Everybody should be cal not just -. MR. a : But you did just sa though that they - like for instance, SHU. can call Control and say, “Hey, I just wa verify my base, what do you got?” MS. a: No, they wouldn’t say, want to verify my base, what do you got?” would say, “I want to verify my base, Ih 87.” And then Control would say, “No, th good, no, that’s bad.” MR. a : Okay. MS. a: So now, as the officer, I would do, I would go around counting my inmates in my unit and I would look at my 88 "Did t ‘ve fe) 1, nt.” ling, Y SHU nt to “Tt You ave at’s what EFTA00115092

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE oo ite) 1 roster and see who went out to court. But 2 that’s what I would do. ies) a Sure. a: I can’t say what everybody 4 5 else would do. 6 MR. a : Yeah, no, and trust me, 7 we've talked to a lot of people and everybody 8 does things differently. 10 MR. a : That’s why we’re trying 11 to figure out -- 2 MSs. a: I like knowing -- MR. a : -- should they -. 4 MS. a: -- what I need to know on my 15 unit. I’m just nosy like that. 16 MR. Ee : Yeah, yeah. ive) 7 WM: «So, I want to know what’s 8 going on, who is in my unit, who is coming out 9 of my unit, you know, so, I’m verifying my 20 stuff on my own. 21 MR. ae : Okay. No, that’s a good 22 way to do it. So, are you aware of though 23 anybody calling, for instance, Control and 24 getting control? Somehow, however crafty that 25 they use their wordings to actually give them EFTA00115093

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE the base count? I’ve never of. No? MS. Not that I I know I’m not going to happened, but I don’t know. Right, I’m going Before that, documents. any I’m going Uh-huh. You’re not that that’ Right here showed Jus a: I want to Well, got the qualification with t with the knowledge, we do a MR. ae: This one t if 90 heard. know of. Not that say right. to show you some that I document >u to initial and attesting to it, Ss a document that you. 2 t anywhere on top with work you guys. it sounds like you hose degrees. And BOP Hh ton of stuf oo. Just the top. EFTA00115094

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 91 1 MS. QJ: =t’s got to be off the 2 record. 3 MR. ae : So, are you familiar with the 4 E-ls? Control documents? The first one that 5 I’m going to show you is this would be for 6 August 9th at 5:00 a.m. 7 MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. 8 MR. QJ: 9=Right? This is the E-1 9 document controlling - Control document. The 10 SHU shows 77 inmates. 11 HM: vh-huh. 2 MR. ae: Now, I’m going to show you 3 the daily log. Are you aware of the 4 Lieutenant’s log? w MS. Uh-huh. 7 MS. Uh-huh. mz 16 MR. ae: Inmate movements? a: 7 8 MR. Okay. Now this is the day 9 watch, document is the day watch Lieutenant’s 20 log for August 9th. We can start off, we’ll 21 look at the inmate movements, it shows that - 22 MR. ae : You need to start at 77 23 to match up with that -- 24 MR. QJ: 9 Yeah. 25 MR. QJ: -- 5:00 a.m. EFTA00115095

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE MR. wu 3 MS. MR. MS. So, it says 77 at the 5:00 Uh-huh. It matches up -- Uh-huh. y did the still at 77 with five in Oo J A o] gy ) = f i) ct oo lo ( a] 4 Uh-huh. down to -- The count comes Uh-huh. next movement -m. It Wait a minute. EFTA00115096

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LIMITED ies) w co ive) oO co OFFICIAL so, understand, statement up here. Fernandez USE where MS. MR. do you where on dry (Indiscernible *01:15:5 ved and wo ot) cell from SHU? look at the - is the dry cell? I thought it was in SHU. let’s look at the Okay. So “Inmate watch and Uh-huh. So at this point, inmate the count comes down Now we’re looking count for August 9th. 4-00 a : a: UU p.m. EFTA00115097

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE 94 MR. its) rt og MS. 7 a: a: 7 Uh-huh. Right. It shows 76 -- MS. Uh-huh. MR. -- starting. Re removed, right? is removed. Epstein is sitting in attorney i1ference? m7 Uh-huh. Yes, that’s right Fernandez is removed. Uh-huh. But it still shows 75. It Uh-huh. This is - they got 76. This is 4 o’clock. Did they say And this is removed inmate. MR. Ee : Keep on showing her the other one though -- MR. a: Yeah. MR. a : -- because that’s not really that -- Give me Fernando’s. EFTA00115098

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 95 1 MR. Ee : -- that’s not really that eye opening because that’s 3:15 to 4:00. Now ies) show her the 10:00 p.m. and the midnight count. 4 MR. ae: The next one is over here too, there’s some inmates that moved in and w oO out. Now let’s go to the 10:00 p.m. count. 7 MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. And go over the inmates co Fs) wo that - so you can follow the numbers. 10 MR. a: So just look at -. a: Pull my chair closer so I can Ww 5 K © wu om al 107) rt g wu rt o o ct t 0) BK v t wi a Now, this is the evening 16 watch document. The other sheet now if you 7 start looking at inmate Hemmingway, 6:34 p.m., 8 he’s removed from the SHU, goes to ES. 20 MR. QJ: «Right? And the next one i i] 21 inmate Reed gets moved from ZA to GS. 22 MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. 23 MR. a: So, now we lost two more 24 inmates, that’s 73. EFTA00115099

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. a: Then we gain two inmate 2 SHU gains two inmates, 8:21, Felix and Williams ite) nn i) , the 3 from ZA to suicide watch in the SHU. 4 MS Uh-huh. w a Right? Nait a minute. From ZA -- Sorry, sorry. No, so he came from SHU. wo F rom SHU to suicide watch, so i=) now we are down to 71. ht? And then, we have ive) Garcia. N I 4 MS. Wait, I’m sorry. Hold on. 5 This is 70, that’s one, that’s another one, 16 (Indiscernible *01:18:24), okay, that’s i. 7 One, two - okay, I see why it’s two. Okay, 8 that’s two, right? That’s two. And then, you 7 21 MS. a: So it’s the suicide watch, a 23 MR Yeah. And you see one inmate 24 was gained -- EFTA00115100

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE SHU, right, there, plus one. he’s, I guess can you find the one Garcia Pena’s moved over. Uh-huh. I’m going to show you the count on the On the last couple of for ZA? ZA would the count slip? Uh-huh. show? does it 3 at 10:00. Uh-huh. mean? j/ was o it’s somebody that’s there if) not accounted for but by looking at figure out who that is? So does that mean, what one is actually 74 EFTA00115101

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE wo oo 1 that they’re thinking that’s in there? 2 MS. a: Uh-huh. Not unless - well, normally what it is, is -. ies) w ct J w rt ct J w rt Q co © o ct Hh ° 5 co = wo i=) N Q rs 1) n ct , is) 5 on ive) Fs) I’m going to show you the 4 12:00 p.m. count too. This is 12:00 a.m. count, there’s August 10th -- Uh-huh. f fo] = a.m. count. Now, were co you working in Control at that time? 9 MR. Ee : That was when a - 20 || you said the -- 22 MR. ae : -- Ops Lieutenant 23 actually took the count, were on duty 24 at that time. 25 MR. ae: Do you recall that at all? EFTA00115102

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LIMITED ies) w fos) ive) oO oo OFFICIAL USE w to MS. a: I don’t remember at the moment, but I know I worked in Control that day. I know she came in there and she took one count. MR. QJ: §9=wWere you present when MR. a : I think you start MR. ae : So by looking at that, the count? 7) ignature. That might MR. a : So we can tell you -- MS. a: -- the person that prepared EFTA00115103

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 100 ioe) t when she was io t ioe) a) t o Uh-huh. oo MS. Huh-uh. ie) 15 MR. ae: You see a discrepan 19 MR. Do 20 mentioning the fact that 21 discrepancy in the 23 no. EFTA00115104

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 101 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 count, so, I didn’t - if I’m the Control Officer, I’m Control one, so my second body is the one that’s preparing the counts and taking the counts and viewing the count slips with the Lieutenant is not there. I’m in charge of the radios, they keys, you know, like a count and making sure that all my equipment is accounted for, letting staff know, “Hey, we’re on duty.” We got to do a PREA-announcement and going over equipment and stuff, all those type of things, so no, I didn’t - I wouldn’t be aware of this if I didn’t prepare it, no. MR. a : So what happened? Was HR -NSsi ured out - and this is where we were hoping you can help us a little bit. And she figured out that Fernandez, who was placed on dry cell at 3:15, was never keyed out of the SHU. MS. QJ: an. MR. a : However, they’re still reporting - because he was never keyed out, they’re still reporting 73, 73, 73 -- MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. MR. a : -- although there’s only 72 inmates in the SHU. EFTA00115105

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 102 1 MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. Ww Hh be te) G K o ifs] ie) c ct ~ G c Ww) co fo n o ie) 5 rt a fw Oo 4 72 and then either she or someone in Control or w whomever, keys him out. 7 MR. a : And so what we want to 8 know is do you remember that happening or the 9 around that? 11 MR. Ee : No, you don’t? Does tt tell you anything about if these counts were nN ive) conducted? The 4:00 p.m. and the 10: 4 and the 12:00 a.m.? 5 MS. a: This just shows that this was conducted. 7 MR. ae : No, not the E-ls, the oO 8 counts in the SHU. 9 MR. a : Count slips. If the counts 20 were wrong. 21 MR. ae : So all of them are sayi ing 3 all though there’s only 72 people. T] 23 Fernandez leaves at 3:15. So knowing that you 24 work in SHU, you work in | | -- EFTA00115106

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 103 w ~] ive) MR. Ee : -- and also you can look MR. a : So these | | slips show that there’s one person in there. MS. QJ: 9 vb-huh. MR. QJ: | Although - MS. aa: This is 9 -. MR. a : Nine south. MR. a: So what does that mean? So i. so on this here, the midnight one, right? MR. a : And also, just please take note of the checks that are all over them. There’s no checks on these two. So, and that’s the 10:00 p.m. we’re looking at. So, we’re just trying to piece this thing together. MS. a: Normally, I’m just going to, for my experience, when I’ve had to plus a one, it’s because it’s a WITSEC inmate that we could not key in because only certain individuals have the authority and capacity to key those individuals in. So, if I got an inmate in SHU that’s a WITSEC and staff can’t key him in until maybe the Unit Manager of the WITSEC Unit comes in and keys him in or whatever unit team EFTA00115107

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 104 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of the WITSEC Unit, we would plus that one because that would show that that’s the body that’s there that we cannot account for but he’s there. That would have - I don’t know what this is. MR. a: Do you recognize whose handwriting that is? The 9S plus one? MS. EJ: No. MR. a: Okay. MR. a : Do you know if it’s yours by chance? MS. a: No, that’s -. MR. a : Definitely not yours? My assumption is that was written at midnight, but we still can’t figure it out. That’s what we’re still trying to figure out. We would have thought that the plus one stuff would have happened at the 10:00 p.m. count since we believe that that’s when Reyes was keyed in. he was keyed in on the 10th for the 9th because - not Reyes, I’m sorry, Fernandez. MS. a : Normally, when a Lieutenant checks off the slips, it’s because they’ re verifying that it’s the unit, it’s the accurate count, it’s the accurate date, time and staff EFTA00115108

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 105 w ~] signature print of two staff members. That’s normally how Lieutenant would mark off a count slip to verify that -. MR. a : I want to show - so does -. MR. a : Is that telling to you at all that the fact that these aren’t checked off? MS. aa: I don’t know why they aren’t checked off. I couldn’t tell you why, I don’t know. MR. a : But those plus ones, aside from possibly a WITSEC type of thing, would that make sense with whether it would be a plus one on || and a plus one though on ZA? MS. a: Minus - not unless there - the only thing I can gather is that they’re saying that this plus one is the inmate that’s still keyed to SHU but is sitting in a. That’s the only thing -. MR. QJ: And that would be my assumption too. IS that they’re saying there’s 73 bodies in SHU plus one who’s actually in MR. QJ: But that 73 is still off EFTA00115109

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE i] oO Hi guess what the question would the number fh ry] fe] rt rt J ul] rt using although they only have housing or I won’t say what it tells us, want to know what it tells The 5:00 p -. Didn't So there was August 10th. Lieutenant MS. No, with Perez. also tells It’s the midnight now you had anot bR oO an be is, the that Control their actual -- read this again. us that - you have two logs? her one, but There’s the August 10th But I didn’t show you the you showed me something EFTA00115110

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 107 I know, that’s in one -- N = w ih t a ies) a -- but this is evening watch. This -. Oh, that’s the same. co All right. I just want to -. There’s a day wa ioe) MR. a: I’m okay. Unless she says I 18 o’ clock This is the 9:00. t £ 5 So you want the 10:00 p.m. EFTA00115111

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 108 1 he’s still showing in Special Housing but he’s 2 in || during the 10 o’clock count. So this is 3 what makes your 73. This is the 10 o’clock? that also weird ~ aj w co + a n 5 though that this count cleared with an || 6 slip. || 1 that’s never checked off. There’s 7 nothing on the E-1 for | 8 MS. aa: Hm, okay this is acting on 9 way before clock one. 10 MR. a : Before clock one, the one 11 we initially showed you where -- 3 MR. a : -- he’s also never keyed 4 in. And it is our belief, per the person who 15 said that they keyed him in, it was done after 16 midnight. 7 MS. J: on. 8 MR. a : Are you allowed to count an 9 inmate that you can’t see? 20 MS. BJ: No. 21 MR. ae: If inmate Fernandez was moved 22 from the SHU at 3:15 p.m., who should have 23 counted him as part of their count slip? 25 MR. ae: Yeah, he was moved at 3:15 EFTA00115112

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 109 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and the 4:00 p.m. count was a SHU that should have counted him on the count slip or was it supposed to be | MS. a : Well, to be honest with you, because I work in | | and I’m going to tell you what goes on, they drop inmates in there and they don’t - a lot of the times, staff - that’s why now we tell them, “Tell us what you’re bringing inmates down here for.” Because they would bring an inmate down and place that inmate in a cell. You won’t know because you’re busy dealing with the Marshals, you’re dealing whatever movement you have going on in | | and you won’t know that they brought an inmate down in a cell. So, it could work both ways that, you know, maybe they figured they were just going to place him down there, keep him down there and then maybe bring him back upstairs. So, it could have been a number of things, but I just know from experience, inmates have been brought into my | | that we weren’t aware of and we realized, walking around i. “Yeah, we got an inmate in here.” “What is he down here for?” So -. MR. a : So this, for me EFTA00115113

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 110 e) 5 rt + 0) 1 personally, the E-1 isn’t as concerning 2 4:00 p.m., although -- ms. QJ: 9 uh-huh. the 4:00 ies) Ww wo oO Q w c n oO ct a i) 8) Ha i} P- ct = rn] A (i) Oo Qa pan is) ta i) ct is) ts) x o Rk o H n ct i] 5 ct Q o rt ct bh S QQ b bh pam i) | i=) 11 MR. Ee : Because there is no 2 count slip although there’s an || count slip 3 in this one that’s never checked off, but it 4 also has no E-1 notification. So that -. 16 MR. Ee : And to me, it seems like 7 the count slips were created after the fact or 8 manipulated or deleted or something, I don’t 9 know 20 MS I don’t know neither. So let -. ay. As he mentions -. No Nm 175) Oo Nait a minute. I just want EFTA00115114

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 111 1 MR. a: But technically at that 2 point, they were missing three inmates. Reyes ies) had gone, Fernandez was moved and Epstein was 4 sitting in attorney conference. Yeah. And it doesn’t -. w 3) foe) i U Okay, but where’s attor! wo i=) 1 counselor for attor 2 MR. ae: That would say, SATTY on top. Okay. 4 MS. a: Yes. So this is attorney ive) t oO a Right, that’s the one. is all the inmates out to court with Southern District. Is it? 7) co 22 MR. QJ: -- in the suu at 4:00 was 23 the 75 although -- 25 MR. a : -- I mean 74. EFTA00115115

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 112 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 MS. a: Not (Indiscernible *01:33:26). MR. a : Although they reported 75 because Fernandez -- MS. a: Okay, well you -- MR. QJ: -- was (indiscernible *01:33:31). MS. a: -- Epstein accounted for in attorney conference. But this is an out count. MR. a : Correct. MS. a: And he’s keyed on the out count and this is what shows where he is actually sitting in key two at that time so this shows that he’s in attorney conference. out count to attorney conference. And what I was expressing to you guys earlier about the courts, how we used to do it, (Indiscernible *01:34:01) maybe it’s a couple (Indiscernible *01:34:02). Okay, this is what we used to do in || as far as the out count. So, this would say the inmate out to court, name, register number, what unit and cell he came from and how many from whatever his unit is. So if we had EFTA00115116

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 113 w ~] wo 10 11 ive) three out from that unit to court, it would be three or whatever, however many numbers and this is how we would - this is what would show in the system that the inmate went out to court MR. a: And that’s an inmate you're expecting back? MR. a: So if Reyes is not on there, does that mean that Reyes is gone and you’re not expecting him back? MS. aa: Well, if he was keyed out at 8 - what did that say, 8:33? 4 aj co Ww 8, yeah. MS. a: Then he wouldn’t show up on this as an out count because that means he’s keyed out. MR. a : He’s gone, okay. MR. QJ: | So people that are going to court that are expected to come back would be on that sheet. MS. a: Right. But we don’t - MR. a : But Reyes was not expected to come back. EFTA00115117

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 114 10 11 12 13 14 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MS. a: Right. And from the looks of this, I didn’t work that shift. That wasn’t my shift. MR. a : Yeah, no, and we didn’t believe it was. We’re -. MR. QJ: 9 You might have left beforehand? MS. a: I might have left - this might have been the day shift and I might have worked the evening shift, so I might have worked - I don’t even know. But I just know that I wasn’t dealing with the courts, the movement at that time, just from looking at the out count. MR. a: Okay. So now that we know that the count was off over here and that the 10:00 p.m. count, according to the Lieutenant’s log, says 72, but 10:00 p.m. says 73 plus one - MS. QJ: «9 uh-huh. MR. a: -- right, and now | | actually is reporting that there is an inmate in there -- Ms. QJ: 9 uh-huh. MR. a: -- except they’re still EFTA00115118

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 115 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 reporting 73 plus one. MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. MR. a: And then at midnight - where is the - midnight it says 72 over here and the count slip shows 73. What does that tell you about the counts that were done in the SHU? MR. a : What he’s asking, if there’s only 72 people in there and they’re reporting 73 and it just so happened to coincide. And this one - and you need to know that background information. MS. a: Okay, so this is what - MR. a : They reported 73 and the Ops Lieutenant who took the count, found out it was actually only 72, made the change and changed Reye- and keyed Fernandez out. MS. a: Okay. MR. a : So what | is asking you is the fact that they reported 73 on all these, does that indicate anything to you about the counts if they were done or were they not done? MS. a: Yeah, this looks like someone wasn’t paying attention because this - what does this look like to you? EFTA00115119

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 116 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a : Well, that’s what I was going to ask. What is RA? That -. MS. a: RA is where that guy was sitting at on dry cell. MR. QJ: Is that JP MS. a: Yes. So he was - so, because it’s now the 12 o’clock count and it’s prior to the count, they can go ahead and key him in where he’s actually assigned. So it seems that during the 10 o’clock count, he was still keyed to SHU so, what was it, plus one or something? So now at 12 o’clock, because he wasn’t keyed there at 10 o’clock, they keyed him there now before the 12 o’clock count which is correct and accurate and what they should have done, but now he’s plus one - he’s here where he should be where he stated on this notification, right, so that’s accurate. But, if he’s no longer here, they should have been putting what’s here. MR. QJ: Right. MS. a : Because he’s not plus one up there no more. MR. a : Yeah. So this one is clearly that they’re off. These guys though, EFTA00115120

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 117 wi ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 are still even with that 73 plus one, it should have been 72 plus one if they’re trying to say, “We got one outside.” It shouldn’t be 73 plus one. They’re utilizing the same number it looks like on the E-1. Somehow it seems that they had that number, that base count number and they knew, “We need - this is the number we need to report, but also we got a plus one over in i.’ MS. QJ: 9 Right MR. a : So they’re still off on their count. Does that indicate to you that they didn’t actually conduct the count, they just used the number that they thought they were supposed to report? MS. a: It doesn’t indicate that they didn’t count. MR. a : Because if they counted - MR. a : -- wouldn’t they have the right number? MS. a: Sometimes you can count stuff MR. a: But wouldn’t it be really EFTA00115121

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 118 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) coincidental if they miscount at the exact number that they were supposed to actually provide? They definitely miscounted, but there’s 72 people in there and they just happen that oe) to miscount exactly what the E-1 show they were supposed to count. MS. a: Yeah. MR. a: It’s coincidences and the fact that it happened twice in a row, what does that tell you? MR. Ee : No, three times in a row. MR. a : Three times. MR. QJ: 4:00 p.m. -- MR. a: That’s right. MR. QM: -- 10:00 p.m. and 12:00 MS. a: I’m not going to answer that. MR. a : Well, based on your experience, right? You’re experience of working in Control, working in J, what do you think happened? Do you think that they did the count or not? MS. a: I’m not going to answer that one MR. a : How would have they EFTA00115122

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 119 uw ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 gotten that number that they were supposed to report? MS. a: By probably just looking in their log and seeing, “Okay, when you take over my post, oh, we got 72 guys. One is in || but they still got him keyed to our unit.” Based on maybe what someone told them. MR. a : And when you worked in the unit at midnight, do you remember this being an issue at all? Because this is where we're told the Ops Lieutenant who took the count, - . she -- MS. a : She had -. MR. ae : -- had to run around and try to figure this thing out. She’s the one who had to like come in and say like, “Okay, where - who’s what, where and I can verify this. Do you remember that at all? MR. QJ: | Dos you remember any telephone calls with the SHU saying, “You got a bad count, you got to recount?” MS. a: No, if she’s taking the count, I let her deal with it. I don’t - I work on whatever else. EFTA00115123

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LIMITED ies) w co ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE 120 MR. Ee : Okay. So you’re not actually involved with her while she’s doing MR. QJ: Okay. And you wouldn’t have been, being that you came from i. you wouldn’t have been the person that person is d that’s a: If she asks what I did then, but I don’t recall t MR. a : You don’t recall -- a: I don’t know anything about MR. a : -- doing that? Okay. MS. QJ: 9 suh-uh. MR. ae : You don’t remember at all though in that specific - you do - did you recall r being =r t all? she was there. you remember her being MS. a: Uh-huh. MR. a : And you -. MS. QJ: 9 Bec e she also made rounds i?) fw c 175) EFTA00115124

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE units. She w on the institution. he BP-38, would that was alked around the All right. in and out, so I guess show when Fernandez w :15, u Oo ty i) ai o a o o N ve) the -. -- keyed out. He actually show what t MS. a 3 a: MR. ah, it ime? 121 who I wasn’t EFTA00115125

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LIMITED ies) co io ioe) co OFFICIAL USE MS. 45 days, MR. back telling MR. ) we wouldn’t o get it at this point day maintained that Well, SENTRY only goes back You’re talking this an. 1") Now what if EFTA00115126

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE 123 MR. Ee : Before you start takin verything away, there’s an issue with initials wQ oO oF) MR. QJ: -- and date ng that I showed you these MR. a : Just the top. -- document Can you just initial and date (Indiscernible *01:42:27) MR. a : Do you know anything about counts not actually being conducted at this time in August of 2019? MR. is] When you would work on the custody side of would you be involved in things like MS. a: If I’m counting a unit with an officer, yeah. Or if I’m the one tak ng the count, yes. If I’m -. ke EFTA00115127

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 124 1 counts in the SHU? 2 MS. a: I’ve done counts in the SHU - Ww | but -. MR. a : And when you were there, 7 did they actually conduct the counts? 8 MS. aa: When I do counts, I conduct w is i] i] oO wo t i=) a Yeah, yeah, but I mean, 11 I’m not talking about you, I know you did, but I mean -- MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. 4 MR. ae : -- the people that were 5 there with you, were they actually, you know, N ive) fea) het i) c re supposed to have two people to count. if I -- 9 MR. Ee : -- also counting? 20 MS. QJ: 9 -- have - if I’m working, 21 you’ re counting, so it’s no - it’ ie] o ~ b not a oF) No Nm Q = 0] 7] rt } is) 5S 0) re not even having that No Ww 0 ie) = © a] 0) M] rt B oO 5 wo Oo Did you ever have anybody No 5 No w push back on you like, “No, no, no, we’re EFTA00115128

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 125 1 good?” 2 MS. QJ: No. 3 MR. ae : Have you heard of people who 4 when they’re starting the shift, just filling 5 out the counts slips and the round sheets and 6 be like -. Ahead of time. =) Fs) Ahead of time. a: Well, if they’re on their own oo i wo 4 u 10 unit, I can’t tell you what they’re doing on 11 their unit. I can only tell you what I’m doing 2 on my unit, so. 3 MR. a : But like in the SHU, have 4 you ever heard of like people coming in and 15 pre-filling out both count slips and round 16 sheets at the very start of their shift? 7 MS. a: If they’ve done it, I’ve 8 never seen it. 9 MR. Ee : You've never seen it? 20 MR. QJ: 9 Have you ever heard of people 21 doing anything like that? 22 MS. a: I’ve heard of it, but I don’t 23 - I’ve never seen it. 24 ve. GR: ts 25 MS. EJ: No. is) ct hat good practice? EFTA00115129

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 126 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a : Is it known that you can’t do that? MS. a: You’ re not supposed to do that. MR. a : Does everyone know they can’t - especially if we’re talking about round sheets. Does everyone know that you can’t go and - say it goes from 8:00 a.m. until 12:00 p-m., you can’t go in at 8:00 a.m. and write out everything you did for a round all the way to 12:00 p.m.? MS. a: You cannot do that because anything can happen. An emergency can take place. An inmate could get removed from your unit. You can get a new guy. Any - there’s a number of things that could take place that you are not supposed to - even your log book, pre- fill out your log. MR. Ee : Is there any training though that you all receive saying like, “You got to do this when you’re actually conducting the rounds?” And certainly, you know, maybe after the fact is okay because you already did it, but beforehand -. MS. a: Maybe if the Lieutenant sees EFTA00115130

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 127 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 it, you know, they might say, “Hey, you know, you’re not supposed to pre-fill out your count slips.” They might say, you know, “You can fill out the date, the time, the unit,” you might could even fill in your name, but you’re not supposed to put in the actual number because you don’t know what can happen, so. MR. a : But as far (Indiscernible *01:45:26) talking about counts slips, I’m talking about round sheets. MS. a : Oh. No, you’re not supposed to. They always tell - they - the Lieutenants always say that you’re not supposed - they always tell everybody that. MR. a : And do you know if back in August 2019, they were also saying that? MS. a: No, I don’t know about that. MR. QJ: Right. MS. a : I don’t know -. MR. a : And is there any training that’s provided to teach people how to actually fill out round sheets and counts slips or is it supposed to be common sense? MS. a: Normally you’re training on the job as you go along, so if I’m new and, you EFTA00115131

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 128 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 know, I’m training up under your officer, you might show me certain things and people just learn by asking questions and maybe another officer just showing him ropes and everybody don’t do everything the way they’re supposed to do so. I might come in as a new officer and you might be showing me stuff and it could be completely wrong, but I’m doing what you showed me because that’s all I know. So, it just depends on who’s training who and who’s showing who what to do and that’s pretty much it because on the job, right now, we have new staff training new staff. We have staff that’s here like a month training staff that’s here a week. So, the blind leading the blind. MR. a : So if someone makes the excuse that, “No one ever told me I could do that, but I saw other people filling out round sheets ahead of time so that’s why I did it,” is that an excuse do you believe? So you think that that is an actual excuse to say like, “Well, he did it, so I did it,” and that makes it okay? Because don’t you think it’s pretty common sense that, no, you can’t - you’re certifying a document saying you conducted that EFTA00115132

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 129 1 round at that time? 2 MS. a: Yes, common sense to the 3 people that think outside the box and - but 4 common sense is not common to everybody and - 5 and I’m not trying to be a smart ass -- 6 MR. a : No, no, no, it’s very -. 7 MS. a : -- you know. 8 MR. QJ: t's a good point. 9 MS. a : And, you know, I’ve been 10 doing law enforcement for a while, you know, 11 corrections, juveniles, school safety. So, 12 I’ve seen things on the job that make me take 13 my job seriously. But when you have no 14 knowledge, you have no experience, no 15 correctional background, you’ve never been 16 placed in an environment that you felt was that 17 dangerous for you to be as mindful as you 18 should be, you don’t - and then nothing 19 happens, you follow what you see everybody else 20 doing in past practice and it’s not always 21 right and a lot of people don’t read what 22 they’ re supposed to be doing, they just go by 23 what you tell them and what I could tell you 24 what to do, doesn’t necessarily mean that 25 that’s actually what you are supposed to be EFTA00115133

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 130 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 doing. MR. a : Sure. MS. a: And if you don’t read it in black and white for yourself, how would you know that this is actually what you should be doing? And it’s just a lack of training around here. Staff are not being trained and that’s what creates a lot of our problems. We don’t have a bad institution, we just have a lack of training, you know, and I don’t think that people are not willing to work, I think they want to work, but it’s a lack of training and it's a lack of morale in the institution, so I think that’s what the biggest problem is. People are not being properly trained. So, yeah, if I see you doing it, I think it’s okay. I’m not ever thinking, “Oh, you know what? Maybe I shouldn’t do that, something might happen.” If nothing ever really happens, so. MR. a: I have a few more questions - MS. EJ: 9 uh-huh. MR. a: -- a few more, but we can come back. Some of the questions are going to be redundant -- EFTA00115134

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LIMITED ies) w Oo co wo i=) ive) w OFFICIAL USE 131 Uh-huh. MR. a: -- redundant because we asked the questions -- Uh-huh. removed from the MCC? MS. a: Is that the guy that went out to court? MR. a: Yes. I would only know that because he went to court. But looking at that document, off the top of my head, I wouldn’t be able to recall off the top of my head why he was removed, but I just know he went out to court. what actions to take -. with that. Were you ever instructed on Well, let’s follow up Looking at the Lieutenant’s log, does that tell you something different? With ies) oO . the Lieutenant’s log and the BP- You mean the PP-38. cr it) EFTA00115135

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 132 1 MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. 2 MR. a : All right. I thought it Bureau of Prisons, like BP. So it’s WwW ry mn bh b tam oO wi aw Somebody -. 7 MR. a : What does the PP stand ) r co Fh is) K 9 mS. MJ: §=ot’s a SENTRY I 10 don’t know. Okay. Repeat question again. 1 MR. Ee : So looking at where it Ww Hi Oo x wu ket and then as well fo] oO ople out, that tell you oO Pp 'S 7 he would have left? MS. a: No, because this does not 9 necessarily tell you. It just tells you he was co of the institution. 22 MS. a: So, no - I mean, you just 23 know that he’s gone. You don’t know why he’s 24 gone, you just know he left. EFTA00115136

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 133 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MS. a: And same thing with that, you just - you don’t know why, you just know he left. MR. a : Okay. You’re talking about the PP-38, right? MS. a: Yes. MR. a : How would the institution know if Reyes was coming back from court? MS. a : | | would know because he would come back with the Marshals and we would key him back in and we would send him back to his unit. MR. a : Now, if he wasn’t - now that he wasn’t coming back, is there any other notification that comes up throughout the day through | | that he isn’t coming back? MS. a: It would just be whatever dispositions that the Marshals give us, provide us with. MR. a: When does that disposition come? MS. a : That just depends. Sometimes we get it right away, sometimes they forget and we got to pre-remove the inmate out because we don’t have nothing and we know that he went EFTA00115137

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 134 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 with the Marshals. But sometimes we get it as soon as possible and sometimes we don’t get it until the next day. MR. a : So there is a disposition form that comes in afterwards. MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. MR. a : What is it? What does the form look like? What does it state on it? MS. a : It’s just a United States Marshals form and it’ll say, “Disposition of -” - it’ll be time served, maybe the judge released somebody on recognizance. Just whatever the judge just might - the judge might have dismissed the case. Just whatever happened at court is what will be - it might be a bail bond. Might be a release to Probation. MR. a: And where is that form kept? MS. a: It would be in the inmate’s folder. MR. a: Do you recall seeing any forms for - disposition forms for inmate Reyes? MS. a : I don’t remember. MR. a : And what is done with that information once it’s received? MS. a: We retain it in the inmate’s EFTA00115138

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 135 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 folder and we key the inmate out and -. MR. a : Or is the information disseminated throughout or no? MS. a : Do we give Control those? No, we don’t give Control a copy. I don’t think we give Control a copy of the disposition form because they - we don’t give them a copy of it. MR. a : So this circles back to what we talked about before. So once you find out an inmate is definitively not coming back, you do not contact anyone to say, “This guy didn’t come back.” MS. QJ: we key them out and normally the Control Officer, if you have a good counts and assignments officer, and he’s paying attention, he’ll say, “Oh, you guys keyed one out?” We'll say, “Yeah, he’s not coming back, he got time served or the Marshals took him and he’s not coming back.” MR. a : The | | doesn’t proactively provide that information. MS. a: No, because they’re supposed to automatically be checking the computer to - like a checks and balance, so it’s something EFTA00115139

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 136 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that’s automatic. When we have inmates going out to court, we have a receipt that we give to the Marshals and a copy also goes downstairs to the Control Center as well, so the Control has a copy of every move we do in Hl. so they get a copy of that. MR. a : Can you recall any situations where an inmate leaves for court and || is notified, “Hey, listen, the inmate is not coming back,” where | | actually called the unit to let them know, “Hey, he’s not coming back?” MS. a : Yeah, we have. We have. MR. QJ: 9s that because they requested to be notified or is it because, is that something that | | normally does? MS. a : No, we might have - it might have been that the inmate had property upstairs and we might need him to secure the inmate’s property and bring it down. So, that’s normally sometimes why we might notify the unit officer because sometimes the inmate, they’1ll call back to the jail and say, “Oh, they released me. I got my property upstairs.” And we'll call upstairs to the unit officer and EFTA00115140

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 Wo —] 1 say, “Hey, inmate so and so is not coming back, 2 can you secure his property?” 3 MR ae : Okay. Before you left for 4 the day on August 9th, do you recall talking to 5 any COs about Reyes leaving? Oo aa: I don’t recall that, no. 7 MR. a : I know we covered this a part of previous conversation, so I’m going to is] co wo go through it quick. 10 MS. a: Uh-huh. 11 MR. a: On August 10th when you came 2 on shift, which counts were you involved in? 3 MS a: I didn’t take the counts, I 4 was number one in the Control Center. So my 15 number two person takes the counts. 16 MR. ae: Number two? Who was the number two, do you recall? 8 MS. a: Was it | | (Phonetic Sp. 9 *01:55:47)? 20 MR. QJ: | You can just look at that 21 for the daily assignments 22 MR. a: Just look at 10th, it’s going 23 to be 10th. 25 MR. ae: | | | | (Phonetic Sp. EFTA00115141

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 1 Wo o MS. a: He was in the Control Center MR. ae: Okay. And do recall i - taking the midnight count? aa: I believe she came and took the midnight count. MR. a: Were you present for it? MS. a: I was in the Control C nter - MR. QJ: «Bot -. a: -- but I wasn’t focused on them taking the count. I was focused on counting my equipment, accounting for my equipment. MR. ae: Do you recall any issues with MS. a: Not that I know of. Not that MR. QJ: §9And do you recall who called MS. a: Not that I can recall. MR. a: What about the 3:00 a.m. and EFTA00115142

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 139 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 count in because that’s the only way we can clear a count. MR. QR: 9 okay. MS. a : So I don’t remember who called but I know somebody did call in the count. MR. QJ: 9=bo you recall during the middle of the count a calling the SHU, having conversation with the CO in there? MS. a: I don’t know because a lot of times they’1ll call downstairs when they’re calling in the count and she’1l have short conversations with the officers, so I can’t say whether she called them or they called her, I don’t know. MR. a: Do you recall if there was a second count slip sent up for the SHU for the midnight count? MS. a : No, I can’t recall, I don’t know. MR. a: Can COs just call in the previous number or do they have to physically do the count? MS. a: No, they have to count. MR. QJ: «why? EFTA00115143

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 vs. SE: 2 breathing bodies. 3 vn. a: 4 the COs have to n 6 Control Center an 7 call the control 8 call in their cou 9 ve. a: 10 paperwork for the 11 vs. SE: 140 You’ re counting for living, Once the counts are done, do otify you? They’ re supposed to call the dad call in their count. They two, which is 6468, and they nt. count? count A count slip. A slip. 2 MR. a : Think we pretty much covered 3 a lot of the other questions. Do you have 4 anything on that topic? 15 MR. a : Who all has access to 16 update the E-1 document? 7 MS. a: Who all has access to update 8 it? The Control Center officers. 9 MR. Ee : When you say, “officer,” 20 just the Control Center officers is what you 21 mean? 22 MS. a: Whoever works in the Control 23 -- 24 MR. QM: Right. 25 MS a: -- but a lot of times, most EFTA00115144

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 141 w ~] wo 10 11 ive) of the officers were shifted around working Control, so primarily, if you work the Control Center as a counts and assignments officer, you had access to printing out an E-1l. All the Lieutenants have access, || had access, but we rr don’t have access to that no more. MR. a: But at that point, did you guys have access? MS. a : Yeah, because you have to prepare this for the count, so yeah. MR. QJ: 9 Okay. MS. aa: But we don’t have access anymore. MR. ae : So Control Officers, Lieutenants, anyone else? MR. ae : And that anyone who has worked in Control at that time, at least they maintained the access for a certain amount of period afterwards? Ms. QJ: 9yveah, uh-huh. MR. ae : Do you know how long that period of time was at that point? MS. a: I don’t think - I think if you had access to it, you just had access to EFTA00115145

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 142 1 it. It don’t think it was no -. 2 MR. a : So, given access once, you got it until -- 4 MS. QJ: 9 uh-huh. MR. a : -- they revoke it. 6 Ms. QJ: §9=Right. Uh-huh. MR. a : Okay. ies) w ~] oo a H Q 2) 5 rt rt a Bb s ~ Bb rt ray U | at o fw 9 it was no time frame that I know of. 10 MR. a: You have any other questions 11 on that? When you were in - are you aware 2 there were cameras inside the MCC on August 9th 3 and 10th? 4 MS. QJ: «9 uh-huh. When you were in Control, did t wi ~ a 16 you have access to see the cameras? 7 MS. a: Yeah, you - the cameras in 8 the - it’s like little TV screens with little 9 individual boxes of different areas of the 20 institution. 21 MR. ae: Could you see the SHU in 22 there? 23 MS. a: No. You could only see over 24 a balcony looking down to the MP and it was 25 like far off so it’s like the camera is up ona EFTA00115146

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 143 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 balcony and just looking all the way down over there. You don’t really - can’t really see nothing. MR. Was it clear? MS. No. It’s like, if you see, a: a: you might have seen a body move here and there, but you can’t really tell - you couldn’t really - it wasn’t clear, no. MR. a: Did you ever hear that the cameras are not working, offline or not recording? MS. a: All the time. MR. a : And was there complaints filed - told to anybody specific? The Captain, Lieutenant? MS. a: I believe notifications were made, like especially if we’re in the Control Center, we would call the com tech and say, “Hey, this camera might have went out.” So yeah, notifications were made. MR. QJ: §9=And did they fix it immediately? MS. a: At that time, no, things weren’t getting fixed immediately, no. MR. a: Do you recall seeing Michael EFTA00115147

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 144 wi ~] 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Thomas (Indiscernible *02:00:56) on the camera on the night - on the morning watch of August 10th? MS. a : You can’t see really from the camera that I had access to, you can’t really see - you can’t - you barely could see because it’s like, I don’t know if you’ve ever been in our SHU. Have you ever been in the SHU? MR. a: That’s -. MR. a : No, we have pictures but we've never -- MR. a: That’s this picture. MR. a : -- actually been there. MS. QJ: 3 So, you can’t really see. MR. a: I’m showing you a picture. MS. a: This is -. MR. a: Is this the view? MS. a: Yeah, that’s exactly, yeah, this is it. So like, if they were in a black hoodie or something, you can’t see nobody over there. If their back is turned and the chairs are - you can’t really see. You might see a body walk across or you might see a body walk down, but you can’t really see. It’s not a real good copy. But yeah, that’s exactly what EFTA00115148

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 145 w ~] ive) I’m talking about. MR. a: Do you have anything else on the cameras? MR. a : No, just when you’re in the Control Center, does it - is there any indication saying that if a camera is working but not recording? No. There’s no way for you to know if a camera is recording or not? MR. a : Just if it was actually live or not. MS. aa: Uh-huh. You would just know that the camera is up. You don’t know - I wouldn’t have been able to tell you that, I don’t know. Huh-uh. MR. Ee : Okay. And did you, prior to 6:33, when a body alarm was set off, did you notice anything unusual happening in the institution on any cameras? Specifically, I guess the SHU one that you couldn’t see that well anyway? MS. EJ: = No. MR. QM: No. 0 Okay. MS. a: Huh-uh. MR. a : There was no other angles EFTA00115149

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LIMITED ies) co io ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 146 from the SHU you could see? a: No. This is all I - that’s Saturday? MR. MR. found o MR. MS. being f made ro MR. MS. 0) Uh-huh. a that night, on August 10th? That’s Saturday, overnight. The morning that Epstein 5 ion Q oO wu ion Going in? The morning he was KK i K i) n -- or the night prior to him ound? 30th is fine. I know the Lieutenant o I b unds. EFTA00115150

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 147 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 because they have to call the door, so we have to pop her in. MR. a : So when he says “night,” he’s talking about midnight to 6:30 -- MS. QJ: 9Right. Yeah. MR. a : -- right. MS. a : So, Lieutenant, she made rounds on the unit because the SHU staff called the door for her to pop - for us to pop her into the SHU and when they call the door, when you hit that door, a visual of the door, who standing in front of the door pops up in the Control Center, so you know who is going into the SHU. During the body alarm, our usual staff just responds to a body alarm, so, you know they say, “Hey, we have a medical emergency in SHU,” or wherever they call. You got the SHU crew calling the door so staff can run in and assist, so, whoever ran in, I couldn’t tell you. But whoever was on shift at that time, responded. MR. a : So the only one overnight would be at that - before his body was found would be Lieutenant a - MS. a: Lieutenant a. EFTA00115151

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 148 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 internal. If he had -. MR. a: Who is internal? MR. a : Do you recall | requesting to go into the SHU? MS. a: He would - he don’t really - he wouldn’t really have a reason to go into SHU, not unless they’re calling for you to come in and do something or he’s going in, you know, because normally, the two officers will count, they’11 put their count slip on the door and the internal officer, he’1ll pick up the count slip on his rounds while he’s counting the other units. So, if he doesn’t have a reason to go in the SHU, he won’t go in SHU. MR. a: Okay. Do you know if there’s any other way that anyone can get through that outer door of the SHU without Control buzzing them in? MR. a: Is the -. MS. a : You would need an emergency key that you would have to get from the Control Center. But no one gets those keys. And especially on morning watch when there’s no EFTA00115152

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 149 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 need for us to give out those keys. Staff are calling the door, so, no, there’s no other way to get in that unit. MR. a : Are those keys kept open or is it just it’s locked up? MS. a: It’s behind a door in the bathroom in the Control Center. MR. QJ: 9 And that would get you through the first door. Do you know if there’s a second set of keys for the internal door for the SHU kept in the Control Center? MS. a: We have keys for most of the doors, yes. But those door - the inner door, the Unit Officer would have, the inner door, he has access to that. So the Unit Officers have those keys. MR. a : We’re just asking just to clarify, if - do you know if anyone checked out the keys for the inner door or the outer door out of the Control Center that night? MS. a: The outer door, those keys never get checked out, but the inner door, that key is a key pretty much like a - you have to put a chit on the Control Center and -. MR. a: Put a what? EFTA00115153

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) MR. : A chit. What’s that? So it’s like a chit system. I have a pair of keys. In order for me to get these keys from Control, I have to turn ina un. SE: have to turn ina it. A key chain with your name on Yeah, it’s a chit. Uh-huh. And you - it’s like a - what is it, what would you call it? Accountability. vn. : a: MS. you give the person a key. Okay. So, you put the chit on it, In order to get the chit back, you got to give them the key back, then you get the chit back. MR. QJ: §9Do you recall if anyone did that for the SHU keys that night? recall that, no. I don’t recall. But I don’t MR. a: Okay. I’ve got nothing else. Do you - is there any questions that you think EFTA00115154

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 151 1 that we didn’t ask you about that you feel that 1?) i ct v 2 we should ask you ab WwW 7) rm 5 4 MR. ae: In regards to this Epstein w t tel oO tT ct b- qQ fu ct pe Oo 5 a: Mm, no, I think that’s -. 7 MR. a : Do you believe Epstein 8 took his own life? MS. a: I believe so. 10 MR. a : Do you have any reason to yone took Epstein’s life a wo 7) side N ive) t oO t h- Hh o 9 MS. a: No. I believe he had a lot 20 on his plate and this environment was a culture 21 shock to him then. I think that he took his 22 own life. 23 MR. a : Now the fact that we don’t have camera from that tier - oh, I wanted ho No w to circle back with you. So our understanding EFTA00115155

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 152 w ~] ive) from the camera technicians and everyone else is that there were actually at that time cameras down each range, they just weren’t recording. MR. a : Do you know anything MR. a : Do you know - do you have any reason to believe that someone knocked those cameras off line intentionally so that they stopped recording? MS. a: No. No. I don’t believe that. No. No. MR. a : All right. And you don’t know anything about that? MS. a: No. No. That’s a good one. MR. a : Well, it’s just there’s a lot of coincidences in this one. MS. QJ: Yeah. It’s unfortunate. You know, this building is still deteriorating as we speak, so, it just - a lot of repairs and maintenance that needs to be done in this institution. It’s - yeah. Yeah. MR. a : That’s all. EFTA00115156

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ow ios) LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 3 MR. ae : Well, thank you for taking 4 the time to talk to us. 5 MS. a: You’re welcome. You’re 6 welcome. 7 MR. ae: This is Special Agent | a. The time is 6:12 p.m. on Thursday, co wo July 15, 2021. We’re ending the interview and i=) turning off the recorder. N ive) oO co ho No w EFTA00115157

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 154 1 CERTIFICATE 2 I hereby certify that the foregoing pages 3 represent an accurate transcript of the 4 electronic sound recording of the proceedings 5 before the Department of Justice, Office of the 6 Inspector General in the matter of: - 8 Interview of Po 9 10 11 12 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 EFTA00115158