10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL AUGUST 4, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 EFTA00114475

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 APPEARANC ies) OR GENERAL co WITN te) ive) co EFTA00114476

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LIMITED ies) w co io ioe) co its) No N No Wa OFFICIAL USE General, New York Field Office, and credentials. This interview with Federal Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector Do you want to show him your credentials? oO EFTA00114477

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 4 1 MR. Ee : And you, sir? 2 Ee : I am Correctional Counselor 8 -N-N-A-T-A. 4 MR. a : Correctional Counselor? ies) Oo wi : ” K @ if) Or] } kK And what did you wo wu fio that, what level was that? Nine? 9 MR. a : GS-9. Great. Thank you, 10 sir. This is an official DOJ/OIG investigation 11 into the death of inmate Jeffrey Epstein, and 2 the surrounding circumstances, and you are 3 being asked to voluntarily provide answers to 4 our questions. Will you agree to a voluntary 5 interview with the DOJ/OIG? 7 MR. ae : Thank you, sir. We have DOJ/OIG form 3-226/2. It’ co a form, it’s n 9 the United States Department of Justice, Office 20 of the Inspector General, Warnings and 21 Assurances to Employee 22 Information on a Voluntary B 23 being asked to provide information as part of 24 an investigation being conducted by the Office 25 of the Inspector General. This investigation EFTA00114478

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 is being conducted, pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended. This investigation pertains to job performance failure and security failure. This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not have to answer questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you choose not to answer questions. Any statement you furnish may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceedings or agency disciplinary proceedings, or both.” And there’s a waiver section. It says, “I understand the Warnings and Assurances stated above, and I am willing to make a statement and answer questions. No promises or threats have been made to me, and no pressure or coercion of any kind has been used against me.” If you want to take a second to look at that, if you agree with it, you can, there’s an employee signature where you would sign, and then you would print your name under here, where it says employee’s name. Thank you, sir, for signing. Do you understand the form? EFTA00114479

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LIMITED oO io ioe) oO oo wo OFFICIAL USE 6 MR. Ee : Thank you. All right. The and time, Wednesday, August -- MR. ae : Fourth. you just s name below? signing as a witness tart the ac | un under oath. ur right hand? Do you V Q rt p- its] truth and nothing but the truth durin What is And your EFTA00114480

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LIMITED Oo w oO oo 95 OFFIC AL current home addre n tn 7) MR. a : And what is your current you prior to that? viewed under this 1) MR. ee: All right. it is that they wrote. I just EFTA00114481

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 8 w ~] ive) want to make sure that everything that they wrote is accurate. MR. a : And just stop me if anything is not accurate. MR. QJ: 411 right. It says, “The following interview was conducted by Assistant United States Attorney, AUSA, Rebecca Donaleski, D-O-N-A-L-E-S-f-1, and Office of the Inspector General, Special Agent David Carpenter. Also present for the interview was Federal Bureau of Investigation Special Agent Arthur Sacco, S-A-C-C-0.” ‘ Ei. “and it says your date of birth, “was interviewed at the United States Attorney’s Office, 1 St. Andrew Plaza, New York, New York. After being advised of the nature of the interview, and the identities of the interviewing AUSA and Special Agents, | provided the following information.” » stated he worked for the Bureau of Prisons, BOP, since approximately January EFTA00114482

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LIMITED ioe) w io ioe) its) OFFICIAL USE 9 yment with MR. Ee : “Prior to empl the BOP, worked for the Building and Maintenance Union, the Marine Corps and the New York Police Department the BOP as a Corr and was promoted to Lieutenant in ber 2015.” “He spent one al Instit my Oo K rt uo f a ~ when he first joined the BOP and had remainder of his tenure at the Metropolitan Correctional Center.” was MR. QM: Sho is now? 9 Lieutenant’s responsibilities depend EFTA00114483

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 1 largely on which area of the prison he or she 2 was assigned to, which rotated on a quarterly 3 basis.” w Fa] 4 fe fe) fs] oO a Cc rt v oO ie) B 5 0 a Cc o. oO 6 operations, activities, solitary housing, 7 special investigations, and administration, as 8 well as possible collateral duties, such as 9 emergency protection.” 10 a : Emergency preparedness. 11 Same thing. MR. a : Okay. Preparedness? ee : It would be the EPO is what 4 he title was. N Fs) ive) 16 yo stated he was assigned as the 7 Activities Lieutenant at the time of the 8 interview, and worked the regular 2 p.m. to 10 9 p.m. shift.” H 21 MR. ae : And then on the daily 22 schedule, it actually listed 4 to 12, correct? 23 You just came in two hours earl 4 a: Well, what lieutenants were ch ho wi 1) No doing, we always did two hour reliefs for e¢ is EFTA00114484

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 11 w ~] wo 10 11 ive) other. MR. a : Okay. But if I was to actually look at that daily schedule -- WN: tsbelieve it would show 4 to 12, or actually, if it was activities, Activities Lieutenants at that time were 6 to 2 and 2 to 10. Operations Lieutenants were on the 8 to 4, 4 to 12, 12 to 8 rotation. MR. a : Okay. I see what you’re saying. So, there’s no actual two hour change, when you’re looking at an Activities Lieutenant? a : Yeah, no. MR. ae : It is what the actual daily assigned roster said? a : It is what the time, yeah. I forgot what the, it’s been a while. I forgot MR. Ee : Absolutely. But, so, the Activities and the Ops Lieutenant were working the same hours? a : They will, they piggyback, but let’s say, like, the 2 p.m. Activities Lieutenant, I would be here on the, still under 7 Watch Lieutenant, and then the Evening EFTA00114485

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LIMITED ies) w oO co wo ive) co OFFICIAL Watch Lieutenant would roll in, if they’re fos) going by to 4. Cause I, as an Evening Watch Activities Lieutenant, I worked 2 p.m. to 10 p.m. But if, like, if the Day Watch Lieutenant was still there 8 to 4, I would be working two hours with him or her. MR. a : Yeah, so, I guess what I’m asking is, I thought at August of 2019, they were allowing the Ops in two -- ee: We were. We were doing two hour reliefs for each other. MR. a : So, you were actually and Act 2 to 10 at the Perfect. Ee : Well, I think that’s what I was assigned to. I can’t recall 100%. MR. a : Sure. And th USE 12 EFTA00114486

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 PE When I Sure. So, got interviewed. I’m going to 3 give you, right now, the daily assignment 4 rosters for both Friday, August 9, 2019, and 5 Saturday, August 10, 2019. 6 EN: -huh. It’s just so that, if it cause we’re 8 helps you refresh your memory, 9 talking about so long ago. All right. 11 Activities Lieutenant at 2 interview and worked the 3 p.m. shift. His regular 4 and Tuesdays. He would, 15 overtime hours or switch 16 officers.” J Wait, 20 after the 2 p.m. to 10 p 21 just discussed 22 A 10 yo stated he was assigned as the the time of the regular 2 p.m. to 10 days off were Mondays on occasion, work shifts with other I apologize. solutely. 23 MR. a : It says, “His regular 24 days off were Mondays and Tuesdays He would, 25 on occasion, work overtime hours or switch EFTA00114487

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE 14 Bh ts with other officers. shi lieutenants. ):09:11). MR. a : So, switched shifts with other lieutenants, to be able to fill in for That’s probably what they the Activities Lieute 0) i] w =] is what you’re saying? ee: Yeah. Or, a lot of the lieutenants could fill those positions, is what lieut oO nant, only a lieutenant can fill an Operations Lieutenant. Correct. PF : You could cover as an Activities Lieute Okay. ning, the night before, Cause, like, that Friday EFTA00114488

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) co No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 15 an officer acting a could switch, that ee: No. Only, a lieutenant can’t switch with then, people officer to fill a post. They can backfill, if there’s, a lieutenant calls in sick. If a lieutenant is not there. MR. a : Okay. So you can’t -- ee: They can use a G MR. a : -- you can’t ask an 8, switch with me? It’s mM | | ee : No. Like, as an Activities Lieutenant, I would have to call in : n ick to the Captain. If I wanted a shift off, I could switch with another officer. I can’t Oo @ necessarily switch with an 8 officer. MR. a : Okay. And looking at this daily assignment roster, I’m assuming you noticed that you were actually Ops Lieutenant? Evening Watch Operations the night before. MR. a : On August 9**? And then | was actually an 8, Acting Lieutenant? EFTA00114489

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 16 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 officer. ve. NN: okay. ee: She was my Activities that MR. a : I got you. All right. “As there were no Activity Lieutenants assigned during the overnight hours, he had no relief officers.” I don’t know why they would have wrote that sentence in there. So, I’m going to read this paragraph again, just to help clarify this. yl stated he was assigned as the Activities Lieutenant at the time of the interview and worked the regular 2 p.m. to 10 p.m. shift.” Again, on Friday, August 9, you were actually the Ops Lieutenant and | was the Activities Lieutenant. It says, “His regular days off were Mondays and Tuesdays. He would, on occasion, work overtime hours or switch shifts with other lieutenants.” And in this case, again, you explained -- EE: bho. MR. a : -- that you can’t actually switch with lieutenants, only if you get bumped and that position is filled, can an EFTA00114490

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 17 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 8 officer -- MR. a : And then it says, “As there were no Activity Lieutenants assigned during the overnight hours, he had no relief officers.” You weren’t doing overnight? a: No. I got relieved and went home that evening. MR. a : I’m not exactly, were you doing overtime shifts for the morning watch? Is that why they would have wrote that? a: It could possibly be. I mean, we worked overtime shifts constantly. At one point in time, we were short-staffed lieutenants like you wouldn’t believe. We were filling this building with five or six lieutenants, we were running the whole building. That’s one of the reasons why I became a counselor. I was never home. MR. QJ: Okay. So that isa little confusing. What it’s trying to say, though, is that if you’re the Ops Lieutenant, on the morning watch, there is no Activities Lieutenant? ee : No. Yeah, that, no EFTA00114491

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 18 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 There’s only an Activities Lieutenant until 10 p.m. the responsibilities of an Activities Lieutenant include making rounds and placing inmates in Special Housing. During rounds, they ensure officers are properly carrying out their job responsibilities and give the inmates the opportunity to address with them any concerns. | stated he often attempted to walk all the tiers, based on time.” So, on this, we have heard different things from different people. As an Ops Lieutenant, or an Activities Lieutenant, are you required to go into the SHU, and I’m talking specifically at this time, so August 9, August 10% of 2019. Was a lieutenant, or +s—she—a_SHU lieutenant, was a lieutenant responsible to go to the SHU and walk the tiers and do a round with the inmates? ae: With the inmates? ee: Well, a lieutenant is supposed to, is mandatory, supposed to make rounds. EFTA00114492

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 19 uw ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 MR. Ee : So what is the definition of a lieutenant round? ee: A lieutenant round? Well, in the Special Housing or general pop? MR. a : Let’s talk just Special Housing. a: Okay. Special Housing, one, the lieutenant walks through the 27 door, that’s the outer door of the SHU. Sign in, in the log book. Go in, go, sit down on the computer, login, do the True Scope rounds. Got to enter your rounds in SHU. Go up to 10 South. Make the rounds up there. Same thing. Enter the information in True Scope. MR. a : So, when you go into 9 South, though, and you’re entering in that you conducted a round, what does the round entail? a: Well, making sure that the officers are doing their job. And like I said, if time permits, if you can, you know, do it, go down the range. Go one range, two ranges, three ranges. MR. a : And that’s where, so, this is where we have gotten, some people are saying they had to do, in order to conduct an EFTA00114493

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 actual round, u have to actually walk the 2 tiers. Do you know that to be the case? a: Well, yeah. Cause the u down range. ies) Okay. 6 a: The officer has the Nobody could just go down range in SHU. wi aw rill Q J ~ m kK co fficer would have wo °o ins Oo is} re} oO Ss i a oO Q K b- b b ' O c a o down range and then 1 have to sign tt 2 each range. Ww 5 by =) jon H rt g i 3 — H is =] Q iu) KR if) ct fw 3 Q 4 what you’re saying. You’re saying sometimes, 5 there just wasn’t time to do it -- 16 | eb bu. 7 MR. ae : -- but does that actually 8 constitute a round, actually walking down the 9 range for a lieutenant? 20 ee : Well, not so much, the to be 25 that, he or she has to go EFTA00114494

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE in that unit and make sure that the officers are doing their rounds. Check the rounds sheets or the log book, log into True Scope, and, you know, make, basically, is that lieutenant is confirming that staff are doing their job. 21 MR. a : So, the lieutenant didn’t actually have to walk the tiers? MR. a : And the ranges? All right. So, that was your when you’re assigning the condt it’s to that you basically did y round with your officers, to ensure they were doing their job? a: Their job, the 10 South and do the same. MR. QJ: Okay.) But not that you’re actually conducting a round? MR. QJ: Like, conducting a round with inmates? ee : No. No, that’s, the whole go into EFTA00114495

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 22 1 purpose behind the 30 minute log book. 2 MR. : Right. 2 4 5 6 The Activities and Operations Lieutenant take a 7 verbal count by speaking with each unit and 8 match that number with the count slip from 9 Internal. If correct, they clear the 10 institution count. They cannot clear a count 11 until they receive a good verbal count from 2 every unit. He was not aware of any instances 3 in which the count was cleared without speaking 4 with every unit.” 16 MR. : So that’s correct, 7 though? 8 a: Yeah. Yeah. 9 MR. Ee : ‘i stated he would 20 attempt to watch the camera monitors as the 21 corrections officers performed the count to 22 ensure officers were properly counting. He 23 could not monitor at all times, due to the ” amount of activi in the Control Room. No cs No wi Well, it depends. During EFTA00114496

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 23 ive) uw ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 the count, my job is mainly taking the count. Me. SN: | Right. ee: You know, I could look up at the cameras, you know, but you have a lot of movement going around in Control. wR. (I: sure. a: You know, throwing keys. If, let’s, and there’s been many times where we were so short-staffed, we had one officer in Control. MR. QM: uh-huh. a: So, while I’m taking the count, I’m also doing C&A. I’m helping him throw keys. You know, but as far as clearing the count, yes. You cannot clear the count until you get a verbal, verbal, good verbal count from the Unit Officer, cause we have the PP1, the El, in front of us with the actual accurate count, as per Sentry. So we have to compare those numbers. You write it down. We compare it. So, you cross it off on the Sentry paperwork, okay, 7, I’1l1 call in a good count. MR. a : But, as far as, like, the 4 p.m. count, the Activities or Ops Lieutenant has to actually be present in Control to do EFTA00114497

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LIMITED ioe) w io ioe) © OFFICIAL USE 24 that? MR. a : And about how many people are present in Control when that count is being in ee : Yeah. It’s the Control Room it would be the Count -- Number 1, Control Number 2 -- o OQ re) at ial ie) bP o, it’s lik Control Number 2 is -- 1trol Number 2 is school, it EFTA00114498

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LIMITED No No No ies) w co ive) co wo ion) OFFICIAL USE 25 called a: I know it’s Counts and Accountability, I think is what the acronym that’s the person who actually, like, receives the counts from people? ee: C&A is the one that does all entry work for all the movement, you know, to make sure rost oO r is accurate, the counts, or the unit base counts and unit counts are accurat MR. ae : That’s Control Number 2? MR. Ee : So, in this case, if you’re looking at August, Friday, Au 0) 2019, would that trol Officer Number 2, can you tell me who that would have EFTA00114499

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2 C ies) count, that would not have been ml: 4 ee: Well, ; | would have been in Control, cau w i] e he would have been the w 6 Control 1 Officer. 7 MR. a : Oh, I thought it was 8 Control 2 for him. 10 is Control 1 and | is Control 2. 11 MR. Ee : Oh, okay. So, okay. what would Control 1’s typical res ibilities nN Ww a fw o been? 4 Ee: At 4:00, the same thing. At 5 4:00, people are leaving, so that person would f foal oO oO ie) 0 K fu rt rt he window, throwing keys. We call ie] rs] tal fw he 9 a: It’s just, it’s an 20 expression. He would be taking the 21 radios, OC and stuff like that from the 22 departing staff, putting it back on the board, wo rh o ta] 23 giving them their receiving chit 24 equipment for the oncoming staff. 25 MR. a : Okay. So, in this case, EFTA00114500

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 27 1 it should have been, at least at 4 p.m., the 2 person that would be signing the documents and ies) taking the count should have been this | 4 and not | ae: With the lieutenant. 6 MR. a : With the lieutenant. w 7 Okay And after we’re done with tt we'll 8 just go over some of the counts, just to -- 10 MR. a : But we’1ll move on, just 11 to make sure we can keep moving on this. I’m 2 just going to read it over to, I can’t remember 3 exactly where I left off. 4 MR. a: Fourth paragraph. MR. a : Third paragraph? 16 MR. ae: Fourth. Pt stated he was normally relieved (Indiscernible *00:19:24) w 8 before 10 p.m. 9 MR. Ee : I’m just going to read 20 this last paragraph over. “QJ stated he 21 would attempt to watch the camera monitors as 22 the corrections officers performed the count to 23 ensure officers were properly counting. He 24 could not monitor at all times, due to the 25 amount of activity in the Control Room.” EFTA00114501

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE bh ‘p Q wu B 3 18) Pa 7) vy] B ion that you might glance up, but 2 you’re not actually, like -- 1s) 3 a: Yeah. Yeah, I wasn’t 4 staring Sure. Absolute w 3) You know? I would be o 7 answering the phones, writing down the actual 8 count -- 9 MR. a : Totally. 10 a : -- you know, the crossing 1 off, and, you know, making the, especially if I 2 had seen that, like, if a count was being ive) delayed, I would be, like, what’s the problem? 4 And I would look. 5 ou’ re 16 y’re doing glued to fos) H ct n 20 MR. Ee : -- cause you have your 21 own job to be doing, is what 24 would normally relieve, be relieved before 10 25 p.m., prior to =ning count. He had heard of EFTA00114502

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ho wo 5 1 an instance where the count was not properly 2 completed, but he had, but it had been some 3 time in the past.” So, if you’re that 2 to 10 4 shift, do you do the 4, the relieving shift 5 would typically do the 10 p.m., is what you’re 6 saying? 8 MR. a : Okay. Do you ever do the wo i=) MR. a : But, I mean, as the 2 to do you ever do the 10 p.m.? 4 Ee: I probably have, but I can’t even recall when the last time I was. 7 typically that relieving officer’ N Fs Ww b o n a be Fh ct ~ t oO a 1) G ct < Les] rt a ie) c te] a a wo Yeah. The relieving 20 lieutenant. 21 MR. ae : Lieutenant, right. 22 23 “He had 24 heard of an instance where the count was not 25 properly completed, but it had been some time EFTA00114503

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LIMITED ies) w oO co wo i=) ive) oO co 23 OFFICIAL US y information on No. I mean, i probably, I remember when I said r of the horror you come home, come in off that? t was was, when would be, like, oh, you know, what happened the other d Or this, th 1] rt , and th <now. WS: «that kind of t where it has been detrimental. kay. But talking specifically about, like, (Indiscernible *00:21:12). even a lieut know, I wa lieutenant, he worked to enforce verbal counseling and by example. e third. hing. er heard ++ sn’t 1t wasn't August 9 alking, l enant at s stilla You it ike, the n EFTA00114504

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE wo BR 1 count is one of the most important duties 2 corrections,” I keep on saying corrections, but 3 I know it’s correctional officers “perform as 4 professionals.” 5 ae: Right. It’s accountability. 6 Inmate accountability is the most important 7 thing here. Maintain security. 9 ee: You got to make sure that 10 they’re all here at the end of the day. 11 MR. Ee : So, are you saying, like, 2 basically, counts and rounds are the most 3 important things that a correctional officer 4 does? 15 a: Count, I mean, everything, 16 controlling contraband, shaking down. 7 Nowadays, with the K2, it’s ridiculous. 8 MR. QJ: Right. 9 a: You know, there’s a lot on 20 an officer’s shoulders. 21 MR. : ki h rr Q tw ut of course, you know, we 23 only do the counts at certain periods 24 throughout the day. You know? The officers 25 making rounds are what helps reduce the fact of EFTA00114505

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE wo 1 them doing the K2 or, you know, making weapons 2 or tattooing or things of that nature. 2 4 of course, 5 making rounds, being visible. That’s what we 6 like to say, and, like, when we’re training or 4 7 whatever. Be visible. Sure. oo 5 ts) rt om o b- fs] 5 iT] ct i] if) ts] i) 0 het ie) c i=) s are basically And rounds are 2 to ensure that inmates are kind of doing what ive) supposed to be doing? And that’s a perfect, what’s 7) t oO i the word I’m looking for? Perfect expression. MR. a : Okay. Perfect example. co 9 Okay. responsible for doing oO No nN w wel 1) ie] B w b = Oo Cc a ps o Q = 5 p- rt Bb wn As the lieutenant, he No ion) a] oO c =] ish n ii) © 6 he lo oO =] bh a & ct i) if 24 would sign round forms, if they were correct. 25 He had ne signed off on forms that were EFTA00114506

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE wo ios) 1 filled out in advance, and would report any instances of that to his supervisors, if he was 3 aware of it.” So, I’m assuming what you mean 4 there is, if you knew they were filled out in 5 advance oO I wouldn’t sign them. 7 MR. QE: | Right. I’m not putting my John co 9 Hancock on that. I would tell them 10 (Indiscernible *00:22:58). 11 MR. Ee : But, how would you know 2 if they had filled it out in advance? You ive) mean, if -- 4 Ee: If I went there and sat, and 15 if I walked into the SHU unit and it was 1:00, 16 I’m just throwing the time out there -- 8 a: -- 1:00 p.m., but I saw the 9 rounds sheet, it was 1:00 when I walked in, but 20 I look at the rounds sheet and the 1:30 rounds 21 are already filled out. 22 MR. ae : And would that happen? 23 Ee : Very rarely. But I might, I 24 don’t think I have seen it as a lieutenant, but 25 I have heard of it happening. EFTA00114507

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LIMITED No No No ies) w co ive) co wo ion) OFFICIAL never USE 34 witnessed it? H fw ie) ct K fw # 5 oO oF differently I was trained, paper unle it’s the way it’s supposed to be, and if it is, aware of anybody tell the boss. back you heard that people Now, out in advance? a : No. I didn’t. you’re not filling them out in advance? knowledge. your your “He trained officers to so inmates wo round patterns, rounds at rounds. EFTA00114508

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE Ww wi minutes, not to exceed 40. MR. a : So, I’m assuming what Back in the days. MR. a : But I’m assuming what you said, when you say other than Jeffrey Epstein, you did hear that did not complete their 30 minute rounds? Ee : I mean, bureau-wide. have gotten in trouble for it before. a : whole, this was all new with the fact that how People Right. That’s why, like, this serious it got. that, had you heard that on then, and I am assuming this means after the EFTA00114509

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LIMITED No No No ies) w co ive) co wo ion) OFFICIAL USE wo fen) fact, that people weren rt QO Oo 5 Q Cc a rt bh s Q rt =a ) iw K Wo c minute rounds? rybody else has heard, out on r in the media, what you hear in ee: I was here that morning of, after the fact, and we didn’t get told wu MR. ae : Are you talking ab There was a total blackout. We were kept in the dark. MR. Ee : And you hadn’t heard like, people counts or rounds? said, the same thing you heard out on the street. EFTA00114510

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 37 1 MR. Ee : But, I mean, not from ct w here and there, but nothing was io Of course, when 10 something like this, look, it’s, I have been 11 doing this almost 21 years. ng, 12 God forbid ha like this, everybody Monday ioe) morning quarterbac 16 must have done this, or ts) 17 That’s all I have heard. 18 MR. QJ: | uh-huh. I didn’t hear nothing t ie) No, no, no. 25 that, and the other thing. EFTA00114511

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) lo o MR. Ee : I would just assume people would have been talking inside the institution. I wanted to make sure that you also heard it inside the institution, not just through the media? a: Yeah. No, I mean, I, like, as far as a whisper here and a rumor here, I chose to stay away from it, because, one, I was a supervisor and two, I know what was coming down MR. Ee : Sure. a: I knew how serious it was going to be. And I was not going to entertain any of that. MR. a : Sure. So, you had heard people ying that there were rounds and counts weren’t complete; however, you didn’t put any credibility to it -- MR. QJ: -— because it wasn’t official? a : No. It wasn’t, it wasn’t official. It was just rumor mills. It was whispers. It was Monday morning quarterbacking, for lack of better terms. EFTA00114512

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LIMITED ioe) w io ioe) 20 No Wa OFFICIAL USE 39 correct, was that a I apologize. I don’t mean to go long-winded on it. MR. a : No, no, no. Just cause when I said it, you said, to make sure you actually ee : Yeah, no. Like, I heard -- MR. a : With what, I know, I H just, cause for the transcript, it will read contradicting what I said, and I wu. lled suicide 5 o and another s EFTA00114513

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) what you’re saying is that since you have worked, maybe there was about two suicides? ee: I had one, I was personally involved in one in 2003, and that’s the one that I was, that I referenced. There was one years later. I don’t recall what year it was, or the outcome of that one. I just know that the one that I was involved in, the officer in charge in the SHU unit got suspended for it. MR. QJ: okay. ee: So, the rounds were made, but they weren’t within that 30 to 40 minute, so the OIC got hit on that one. MR. ae : And do you know why the OIC? a : I think the rounds, I think, if I can recall correctly, I think when he entered the round, about 40 minutes, but it turned out it didn’t jive with the camera. So they suspended him. MR. QM: «411 right. So, if the time that he wrote on the paper didn’t show -- Ee : Didn’t jive with the camera. MR. a : (Indiscernible *00:27:38). J 40 EFTA00114514

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LIMITED ies) w oO co ive) co wo OFFICIAL USE , the rea showed we were making rounds. make them between 30 and 40, tha not t< ceed 40, I believe with the hey hit And were y at the time? I was in the did CPR on him. son, t 30 it just him. ou a We down to Medical, and then they rushe in an ambulance. curiosity, in that he found? was, something. In just out o it wh lik the afternoo the minute, didn’t j ctually the got him d him ou at time e 3:3 A e, U > n? cam era We just didn’t ive was EFTA00114515

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 42 1 MR. Ee : Okay. So it happened ioe) Ke @ w > That was on day 8 didn’t 9 1 70 ioe) t o I it) > w on the thing tied up. 17 He was between the bunk and the window. c fe) a] ra) ke Was he attached to 19 the bunk or what was 21 the window, if I recall. I hone ifs) 2 remember. That was a long time ago. to the window. EFTA00114516

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE Oo w oO oo member he was betwe window. note. So he actually time? used to hang himself? bedsheets. But that’s important to had a cellma And he still was able to i} i} w j Q p- ct = fu n ket iis And do you believe it was cut-up I recall corre All right. And that was at was 2003. That was the EFTA00114517

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 44 a: I don’t remember exactly the dates or the stipulations on the one that happened years later. MR. a : Do you happen to remember the name of that inmate? a: Of that committed suicide? MR. a : Edwards? was on duty the night Epstein was brought to MCC. He was received at the rear gate and observed him being processed in.” MR. a : “At the time of his arrival, Epstein we deemed okay to general population. | was unaware of his ” remember when he came that I remember t stuck in my mind, he went school that I did. a: I graduated from the same I think he was an EFTA00114518

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 45 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 NYPD task force guy with the FBI, he was from Brooklyn and we chatted, cause we had Brooklyn accents, and come, you know, me and the cop were from, like, basically, the same area in Brooklyn, and he was, like, what high school did you graduate from? And I said, Lafayette, and Epstein actually said, so did I. I graduated from Lafayette High School. MR. a : Interesting. ee: I processed him. Sent him up. I actually found out that they moved him to the Special Housing because of his profile status when I came back to work. MR. QJ: So, you had no idea who he was? a : I had no idea who he was. As a matter of fact, the next morning, my wife actually said, you’1ll probably be getting him soon. And showed me the phone, you know, the news feed, and I said, soon? We got him last night. Then I knew who he was. MR. a : Okay. ee : And then when I came, by the time I came back to work, though, he was already in SEC (Phonetic Sp. *00:30:35). EFTA00114519

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LIMITED No No iN ies) w fos) ioe) oo © ion) OFFICIAL USE 46 it was just within general population to SHU? ” MR. a : “Other than the intake answered on his arrival, interaction with never -- would j J with him. I escort him. yne point in time, a lieutenant had you would it the eck in on his ce door or EFTA00114520

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 47 1 hey, what’s up? 2 WS: Richt. When he was on, 3 like, when he would be on one tier, I remember, 4 I think, at one point in time, he was on H 5 tier, if I’m not mistaken. The only time I 6 would really see him on the tier is when I 7 would escort him. 8 MR. a : And what would you, what would be the wo 'd c 5 ue] 2) a oO 2) Hh i) un 19] 2) K rt be 5 | =] nN 5 5 ° w would that be, ive) then, in the morning, you would do that? 4 Ee: It would be all day long. 5 He would get legal visits all day, into the 16 evening 7 MR. ae : And he would be going 8 back and forth between the SHU? 9 a: Well, most of the time, he 20 brought downstairs and he would be 21 there for hours. 22 MR. QJ: Right. 23 Ee : There would be times he 24 would be in legal visits through the count. 25 MR. QJ: «9 Yeah. EFTA00114521

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LIMITED No No iN ies) w co ioe) co © ion) OFFICIAL USE 48 rs would have to Hi a v is) mH fh B 0 @ K MR. a : Yeah, so my understanding ld basically be brought down was around 8 a.m. and stay until almost 8 p.m. Is that -- would. SHU and then a different attorney would come not alwa : A lot of the times, he he would rt Oo Mn in and he would be brought back down in the afternoon. visits in and out of you would sort him, would be of middle timeframe? if he ever went ba Depending on what shift I was on. y- And when you were EFTA00114522

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 4 \o 1 escorting him, would you communicate with him? 2 : Basically, how are you wu 3 doing? All right. Well, I don’t, I don’t get 4 too chummy with inmates. 5 MR. a : Sure. I would just, you 6 know, with Epstein, I’m assuming, it might 7 stand out in your little, you know, in y 8 head a little bit more. Do you know the last 9 time that you had escorted him or 10 (Indiscernible *00:32:35)? 1 ee: I was about to escort him 2 the night before he died. ive) Fs) And what happened? 4 Ee: I was in the lieutenant’s office, and the attorney conference officer t fea) n wu p jen hey, Lou, he’s re to go. But Mr. y 7 | was here, and PY was, like, Lou, I co will take him up. 24 a: I was, like, okay. No 25 problem. | is a GS-12, so. I was like, EFTA00114523

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LIMITED Ww wo Ww oO oo OFFICIAL no problem. He was being USE supervisor, so I went back into the lieutenant’s office. Ne] c w MR. QJ: 411 right. I: 8d that was the a 19th: rr » you had intera ee : No, I do not. I cted don’t with EFTA00114524

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LIMITED ies) w co ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE again, back to SHU, SHU and do a round, window or downrange, all the cells, no. And I most of the time, I would And didn’t are you good or ar I would peek in. if I’m 51 No? Okay. And then when you would visit the would you peek in on his Would you check with him mean, sometimes, his cell desk was. Right. could look right into interact with But not actually ing like that? If I was making a round ie) I would peek in downran Right. But not on a regular basis, in regard to EFTA00114525

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 52 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Epstein’s first alleged suicide attempt. His only other involvement with Epstein was to bring him food while in the SHU.” ee: Yeah, if he was on G tier. MR. a : Okay. a: Cause on G tier, the lieutenants have to, have the key to the wicket to be able to feed, but if he was on a regular tier, no. There was times when, and when he was a lieutenant hold, a lieutenant had to open his, be there every time his slot was opened. But he wasn’t always on a lieutenant hold. MR. a : Can you explain that more? Cause G tier is like the 10 South of the SHU, right? a : G tier is like a mini, it’s almost like 10 South. The inmates are self- sustained in there. They have their own shower. They have their own, you know, it’s basically, it’s a bigger room. It’s almost like the 10 South rooms. But also the same thing, the SHU lieutenant, or if the SHU lieutenant, afterhours, there’s no SHU lieutenant, only a lieutenant can open those (Indiscernible *00:34:50) boxes. The wickets. EFTA00114526

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. a : So, was Epstein ever on G wo ios) 2 tier? 3 ee: I don’t recall. I don’t 4 remember. wi 4 a So what does this mean by volvement with Epstein was to bring him food? 8 a : Food. When they’re a 9 lieutenant hold, even if they’re in a regular 10 SHU cell, a lieutenant has to be present to 11 open the slot. Even though the lieutenant 2 doesn’t have to open it himself, the lieutenant 3 has to be there when the slot is opened. 4 MR. ae : So, anytime inmates are 15 served food in the SHU, a lieutenant has to be 16 present? 7 ee: No. Not every inmate. Only 8 if the inmate is a lieutenant move. Like, if a 9 lieutenant has to be present, like, high 20 securi Like if they’re assaultive. Inmates 21 could be put -- 22 MR. Ee : So, was Epstein ever a lieutenant move? No ion) sure. No cs H No wi MR. : So, that’s where I’m just EFTA00114527

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 54 1 trying to get the accuracy of this thing, so 2 it’s only -- 3 ee: I don’t, I don’t remember. 4 That’s the problem. I remember -- wi e-4 a a : So, do you remember ever bringing Epstein food in the SHU? 7 a: I fed him before. But that Oo 8 might have also been just because I happened to 9 be downrange. I can’t recall if, I don’t 10 recall if he was ever actually a lieutenant 11 hold. 2 MR. QR: okay. 3 ee : I remember he had to be 4 escorted from attorney conference. So that’s 15 what, cause that’s what -- 16 MR. Ee : How would his feeding be 7 done, when he was in attorney conference? 8 Would they, would you feed him? 9 a: Sometimes, they would get a 20 bag lunch. And they would take it up with 21 them 22 MR. ae : So, as in, like, when -- 23 Ee : I don’t remember if he ever 24 ate in the attorney conference room, but he 25 wouldn’t get the food from the food cart there. EFTA00114528

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LIMITED ies) w oO co wo i=) ive) oO co 23 OFFICIAL USE 55 MR. QJ: So, like, if he, when he was escorted in the morning, they w uld give him a bag lunch to bring into the attorney -- ae: Yeah. Well, like, they have, sometimes, I believe, he would get, I’m not sure, he could be escorted ba a : Use the restroom or whatever, and go down, but they get to use the iy a wu qQ 7 sure how he was fed, then? a : Not down in attorney conference, no. Okay. Ee : That I recall. MR. QJ: 411 xight. I’m assuming, would have taken place more at, the food, EFTA00114529

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 56 w ~] wo 10 11 like, what time, you know, when he would get, return back at the 8 p.m. mark. Would that be when he would be fed? given the food in R&D, like, not R&D, the bag Well, he would, if he was lunches, he would have it given to him in attorney conference and he would take it with him. ee: You know, if he was going to eat past dinnertime, but also, a lot of the times, too, if he was, like, not just him. Any inmate. If they’re downstairs, the officers could also place the food in his cell, and he could have the food when he comes back from attorney conference. MR. ae : Okay. So, they can go in his cell ahead of time, put it in there, even if he had a cellmate? MR. a : Okay. And there was never problems with, like, the other cellmate - part, the inmates respect each other. No. I mean, for the most EFTA00114530

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LIMITED ioe) w oO io 3 3 OFFICIAL USE 57 was aware Ep had been moved back to the and that he was required to have a roommate, per a mass email he had re HS: Xc2h. $[t went out to all MR. a : So, you received an have wu a And was that conversations with anyone s need for a roommate, a cellmate. So no one ever verbalized that to Just the -- know. verbalize EFTA00114531

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] wo 10 11 uw o Like, for lack of, they would say that, you know, not on a daily basis. They would just say, any kind of, especially if they have had a suicide attempt in the past, they get put on what’s called the hot list. Psychology threats are always on the hot list. Inmates that are on the hot list should always have a bunkie. MR. a : Okay. So, anybody on the hot list gets a bunkie? ee: As long, if it’s dictated in there by Psychology. Psychology fills out the hot list. MR. QJ: Right. Ee: And it gets, they update it. MR. a : So, is Psychology’s hot list, is it just for the people that need cellmates or is it also people that can’t have cellmates? What is the hot list? a: What do you mean? Can or can’t? What do you mean? MR. a : Can’t, cause aren’t there some people that have, like, you know, (Indiscernible *00:38:34). ee: Separation, no, the hot list doesn’t pertain, the hot list is psychological. EFTA00114532

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE wo ite) 1 It’s from ssychology generates it. 2 MR. a : So, if you’re on the hot list, everybody gets a cellmate? 4 ee: Yeah. If it’s annotated in the hot ies) w ct J o int 0) H ct = Bb be b oO 0 K ‘ bh 5 3 p ct o n bh s That is, whether he or she is in for a Psych 8 study or a forensic study or what have you, and 9 suicide attempts in the i=) what ha 11 MR. Ee : And where would that hot e you. ie) I b it) rt o @ The hot list is 4 MR. ae : Where in the 5 a: It should be in a, either on a clipboard or in a folder. 7 MR. QJ: | and do ive) oO now where it 8 was on August 9, 2019? 9 a: It should have been, I’m not 20 100% sure. I can’t recall, but it should have 21 been on a clipboard on the hook. 25 in SHU required to look at that hot list? EFTA00114533

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 60 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) MR. a : All right. So, they should know -- WN: hey should be familiar with who is on the hot list. MR. a : So, is everybody that worked in the SHU, should have they known that Epstein was required to have a cellmate? MR. a : Is there any reason for someone to say that they didn’t know that Epstein was required to have a cellmate? ee : Unless they weren’t assigned to the post and they were thrown in there on overtime or mandated to work overtime and they weren’t familiar with it, that can happen. But if you’re steady, assigned to that post, you should be familiar with the hot list. MR. Ee : Okay. And is there any kind of requirement for people, like, overtime that are, you know, not regularly working in the SHU, to be either briefed on the hot list or to review the hot list when they joined? ee: It all depends. Like, I mean, a good SHU officer, worth his weight in EFTA00114534

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 61 w ~] ive) salt, would at least talk the staff member through it. But, like I said, there was plenty of times where the entire SHU crew were all overtimers. MR. QJ: Right. a: So, nobody came to work. MR. a : Okay. a : And a lot of the times, you would have SHU crews, never mind just SHU crews, institutional staff that would be zombies, because they had been getting stuck four days in a row. So a lot of the times, 's a lot to absorb. You things, you know, it just, you’re trying to do the job. MR. a : Okay. So, looking at the August 9, 2019, roster, and I’m going to say from the 8 a.m. hour on to the end of the day, for the people that were working in the SHU, can you tell me who you believe should have known that he was required to have a cellmate? a: For the day shift or the evening shift? MR. a : Just from 8 a.m. on. ee: 8 a.m. on. All right. Well, it looks, there was three officers, EFTA00114535

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LIMITED ies) w co io ive) co OFFICIAL USE 62 WwaS a three out So, saying ould have SHU the job. The because we were not SHU be super familiar with it, because he Okay. And he’s with commissary. person, EFTA00114536

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 63 1 she have known what the hot list was? And should have she known ies) a 4 that Epstein was required to have a cellmate? wi K 8 MR. a : Oh, you do have to sign 9 that 10 HA: «ss veah.) Uh-huh. 11 MR. Ee : All right. And who, when 2 do you sign that? 3 ee : Last I checked, I don’t, I 4 can’t get quoted on this, cause I’m not 100% 5 certain. We would sign it a lot, like, well, 16 at least the lieutenants, would sign it when we 7 would do lieutenants meetings and meet with 8 Psychology and go, review the hot list, we 9 would all sign for it. 20 the hot logy always 24 MR. a : So, how often does the be signed? EFTA00114537

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 64 1 a : Every time it gets updated, and they put a new one, it should be reviewed. 7) Ww Ps) 5 while, cause now, my 6 Housing is limi 8 Did you make that note? 9 Can I ask a question a form or = ie) K o w > ho ho rar And you k ho No i) 25 ee : I’m not 100% sure, but I EFTA00114538

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 65 uw ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 know, as they have, they’re require to review the hot list. They should be familiar with that hot list. Know who their psychological inmates are, just as well as reviewing the posted picture file. MR. QM: okay. a: To know who your high profile and your dangerous inmates are. MR. a : All right. So, at that time, you being an Activities or in this case, an Ops Lieutenant, would have you had to have reviewed and signed the hot list in the SHU? a : No, no, no. It’s, I would sign it here. Like I said, in the lieutenants meetings, we would go over it with Psychology. MR. Ee : Sorry. I mean, the SHU hot list, is what I mean. a: No, that’s the one that would be there. The hot list is just generated by Psychology. It’s not like there’s one for SHU, one for the lieutenant’s office, one for here. It stays in SHU, but Psychology would always make sure we familiarize ourselves with it. MR. a: And is it only, is there EFTA00114539

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 66 hot list in SHU? 2 Ee : That I know of. Okay. So, my question, ies) a 4 sorry, I probably was unclear, is at this time, 5 the SHU hot list, you being the Activities 6 Lieutenant, or, in this case, the O Lieutenant on that specific date, August 9", 8 would you have reviewed and signed that hot oO k b- 103) c i=) nN iv) 5 rt = w n | | ive) Generated, yes. 4 Right. So, point being, 5 on the hot list, you would F oO oa rm) o n B- Q 3 o is] pw 3 FA 4K oO B m = oO 2 } rt 7 Ee : Yes. Of course. I mean, 8 like I said, ybody at that point in time 9 should have known that he was going to be on : Okay. a : Especially after the first 22 23 suicide attempt. 24 MR. a : Okay. And do you think 25 anybody in the in -itution, with his high- EFTA00114540

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 67 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 profile nature and the fact that he had a first suicide, suicide attempt, including these people that you mentioned in the SHU, is there any reason for anybody to say they didn’t know that Epstein was required to have a cellmate? a: I don’t know. MR. a : You don’t know? a : No. I mean, the people that are assigned to SHU, but the problem is, if you look, overtime. He wasn’t assigned. Overtime. She got assigned to that post, but it probably, I don’t believe it was her post for the quarter. You know? I’m not, I don’t, I can’t recall 100%. MR. a : But as far as, aren’t people that work in this facility, correctional officers first? a: Of course. Of course. That’s the thing. MR. QJ: | nd if they know that the high-profile nature and the fact that he tried to commit suicide, don’t all officers pretty much know, if you try to commit suicide, you’re required to have a cellmate? EFTA00114541

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. Ee : So, shouldn’t everyone have known that he was required to have a a ao WwW ie) 7) bh bh 3 ju ct 0) v 4 ee: In that sense, yes. All right. And w a 6 especially the fact that he is in the SHU, he 7 is, at the time, I think, your most high- 8 profile inmate. 9 EE: h-hun. 10 MR. a : Do you believe that they 11 should have known that he was required to have 2 a cellmate? res. ive) 15 Lieutenant Rice was the SHU lieutenant. He 16 believed Lieutenant Rice would have known 7 Epstein required a roommate or a cellmate as it 8 is a regular responsibility. He believed 9 Lieutenant Rice would have enforced the 20 roommate rule. [RJ stated he had worked 21 the 2 p.m. to 10 p.m. shift on August 9, 2019. 22 He was relieved around 9:50 to 9:55 p.m. that 23 evening. He was not aware that Epstein did not 24 have a roommate.” EFTA00114542

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) oy \o MR. Ee : “He did not know Reyes, Epstein’s former roommate, had left MCC, leaving Epstein without a roommate. FT found out the following morning. He had been working as Operations Lieutenant that evening. R. | had been working as Activities Lieutenant. She had made the rounds.” All right, so on this, I’11l guess we’1l just go one sentence at a time. So you didn’t know that day that Reyes had left the institution, is what you said? a: No. No. MR. a : Now, is that -- Ee: I was unaware. MR. a : Now, is that something that if he, if he had left, is that something that you should have known? a: No. What happens is, when inmates go to court, and then they get released or transferred out, they don’t necessarily tell us. Basically, what happens is then, the only way we’re going to know anybody moved is when we do the PP30 at the end of the night. Right? Just to, you know, write down who -- MR. QJ: sts it PP30 or 38? EFTA00114543

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 70 w ~] wo 10 11 ive) a: PP, I believe it might be a 38. I don’t, off the top of my head, I don’t remember. I know it’s the quarter’s, the movement roster. I haven’t done it in a while. MR. a : Well, there’s some of those things we’re going to review after -- a: Yeah. But I know it’s a Sentry, it’s got to be entered in Sentry, and then basically, it gets transferred over to the lieutenant’s log. MR. QJ: Okay. a: Right? At, you know, to monitor what movement you had, just to make sure your numbers jive with the institution numbers at the end of each shift. MR. Ee : Okay. So, in this case, do you believe someone should have, being that it was Epstein, and Epstein’s cellmate, Reyes, left the institution? Should someone have told you this? a: Should somebody have told me directly? MR. a : Yeah, as the Ops Lieutenant, you have Epstein, your most high- profile. He is required to have a cellmate. EFTA00114544

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 71 1 Reyes, his cellmate, leaves the institution. 2 Should someone have notified you? 3 ee: I would have liked to be 4 notified. 5 MR. a : So, who should have 6 notified you that Reyes was -- 7 a: When he departed the 8 institution, somebody should have been 9 notified. Maybe not me, but somebody should 10 have known. 11 MR. Ee : Okay. So, if he departed 2 the institution at 8:38 a.m., and he’s listed 3 as pre-remove, removed off of the records, how 4 should have that went down? 15 a: If he was known to not come 16 back, then he should have had gotten a new 7 cellie. g vR. QM: Like right away? 9 a: As soon as humanly possible. 20 MR. QJ: Okay. So, if people 21 claim that they didn’t, they weren’t, they 22 assumed he wasn’t coming back, cause he went 23 With All Belongings. So, if someone goes With 24 All Belongings -- 25 HN: WAS means With All EFTA00114545

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 72 1 Belongings. That means they’re not coming 2 back. 3 MR. a : And that’s pretty much -- 4 ee: Most of the time, they’re not coming back. There are occasions where w 6 they cancel the bus, or they cancel the ~] transport or Air America, they will cancel, and 8 then they’1l come back, but most of the time, 9 when they go WAB, that means they’re going. 10 They’re either going home or going to whatever 11 institution they’re getting moved to. 12 MR. a : Right. So, in this case, if people know that Reyes leaves at 8:30, he’s ive) 14 moved down by the OIC from the SHU to R&D, WAB. 15 What should have happened at that point? 16 a : So, I would assume that L7 during the day, on a Friday, the lieutenant, 8 the SHU lieutenant is here. 9 MR. Ee : So, if the SHU lieutenant 20 is actually off that day, no SHU lieutenant, 21 you got -- 22 a : A lieutenant should have, a 23 SHU, a supervisor should have been notified. 25 ee : And been like, hey, he don’t EFTA00114546

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) have a bunkie no more. MR. a : Okay. And if that -- ee: And then it should be, you know, then get him one. MR. QJ: «411 right. So, and if the OIC, let’s, for the benefit of the doubt, OIC does inform one of the lieutenants, let’s say in this case, it looks like Activities was | eb hun. MR. Ee : And no action is taken by them. What would be the next thing that could have happened with this, to make sure, you know, Epstein, high-profile, doesn’t have a cellmate. What should have, how could this catch up to itself? How could we rectify the fact that Epstein was -- a: Well, that’s, then, if nobody is notified, no one knows. MR. QJ: «Right. So, would the SHU, after | is gone, the next, you know, and his crew leaves and then the next SHU crew comes in, should have they, then, said, hey, Reyes isn’t here. We’re doing our rounds. There’s nobody in there. ~) a EFTA00114547

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 74 2 MR. a : Should they have notified Ww ct J o bh bh o = rt @ 5 fu 5 rt 4 ee: I should have been notified. MR. a : And who should have you 6 been notified by? 7 a : At least the SHU crew. They 8 should have been, like, hey, this guy doesn’t w a cellmate. MR. a : If i. the former Ops st, Oo > fy 0 ) i=) 11 Lieutenant, knows that, at the very lea i) le Bh t the institution -- 7) nN Reye ive) Uh-huh. 4 MR. ae : -- possibly for court. 5 Maybe he doesn’t know he’s WAB, but he knows 16 that he left. Should he have notified you that 7 Reyes was -- 8 a: Well, if he had knowledge, 9 you know, that’s part of taking over. You 20 know, the changeover. Hey, ything happen? 21 Anything I need to know? (Indiscernible 22 *00:51:00). 23 MR. a : In this case, Reyes, 24 knowing that, if he knew Reyes was Epstein’s 25 cellmate, had left the institution, should have EFTA00114548

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 75 1 he notified you of that? if he had direct 3 the thing. 5 if he he knew, 6 he knew 7 yeah, I 8 he wasn 9 That’s But should have he 12 ee: I should have known about 13 it or not it was from m7 or from 1 ause he was a hot 15 16 18 19 10 one informed y 20 informed. ho rar 22 out the next day 23 What about, I 24 is 25 the one who did the round, correct? EFTA00114549

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) ~) on MR. a : Should she have known, Reyes is gone. Epstein is without a cellmate, when she did her round? ae: If she found it. I don’t know, cause I wasn’t there. MR. a : No, no, no. I’m saying, should she have, should that be, like, when she is doing her round in the SHU, is that i] something that she should have recognized? ee: If she went downrange, maybe. But if she didn’t go downrange, and no one told her, it would be the same ballpark. No one told her. She is, you know, it’s unbeknownst to her. MR. Ee : When she went to the SHU, should -- (knocking on door) MR. Ee : -- we're in here. When she went into the SHU, should the OIC crew, or not the OIC, the SHU crew have told her, Reyes is gone, Epstein is without a cellmate? Ee : Possibly. Yeah. I mean, a lieutenant is not going to know anything unless the officers relay that information to the EFTA00114550

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) nN ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) ho ho w OFFICIAL USE lieut ~) ~~ enant. We’re not superhuman. MR. a : So, if she did her rounds, and again, you said that she is the one who did the rounds, do you believe it was their responsibility to say, hey, Activities Lieutenant, ju cell. t i) 3] ie) you know, no one is in that Reyes is gone. Just want to give you the heads up. Should that have happened? have have lack MR. a : Okay. And then she would then informed you -- a: Of course, listen, she would definitely notified me. She is, for the of better terms, and I don’t mean to use profanity, she is a shit hot lieutenant. a: She would have definitely, if she knew, would have let me know. a : And we would have fixed it. MR. a : So, whoever was working on her, on that shift, when she visited, should certainly have informed her that Reyes was EFTA00114551

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 78 gone? : To my understanding, e he w HE: «XO. «6 don’t recall her telling me. And li H i) said, just knowing her, and her caliber, she would have told me. 2in did not have in Eps roommate, he would have ensured he did.” “And he knew him to be on following morning, August 10, 2019, at approximately 6:30 6:45 a.m., he received a call from Lieutenant Stanley a. informing him that Epstein had attempted suicide and he should go straight to the hospital, instead of That’s what I did, I went straight to Beekman Hospital. at the hospital, the escorting staff informed EFTA00114552

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LIMITED ies) w fos) wo ioe) fee) OFFICIAL USE 79 him that Epstein had passed away. saw his bo and told to anyone and direct ison public relations you know who that was tant, so it should ecutive Plourde. Lee Plourde? ourde is the public -- “He said the that was not were BOP, but the hospital -- ho and I was, like, no one -'s EFTA00114553

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 80 10 11 12 13 14 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 hospital.” a: x=. MR. a : Now, were they people that escorted Epstein to the hospital? ae: That’s what I believe, yeah. They had to be, because, like I said, I was on my way to the hospital. I went straight to the hospital. I believe those were the three staff members that they got to be the escorting staff. MR. a : Okay. Now, as far as Epstein going to the hospital, do you know when he actually was deceased? HS: «= cemember, my mission at that point, Lieutenant | | had told me, go straight to the hospital, tell the officers, you know, keep the area secure and record time of death. I think the hospital told me it was, like, 7 something. I don’t recall the actual time, and then I called Lieutenant J and gave him that time, and then he was, like, all right. We already got it. Bring yourself back to the institution. MR. a : So, do you know if, prior to that time, he had shown any signs of life? EFTA00114554

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE 81 a: No. I am unaware. No. MR. a : Okay. So did anyone mention to you or state to you, he died MR. a : They just pronounced him a : They told me they pronounced him dead. I don’t remember the actual time. of death right, we got it already. Come to the institution. And then I MR. ae : Do you believe that when he was found at the BOP institution, he was actually dead on scene? ee : I don’t, I don’t know. I can’t, I can’t answer yes or no. Ee : I just know, when I saw his body in the thing here, the intubation tube in his neck and down his throat, and it looked EFTA00114555

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LIMITED ies) w fos) ive) oO oo OFFICIAL USE oo like they were working on him. MR. a : And they were still working on him? ee: No, no, no. They had worked he still had the tube down his throat. lieutenant and was guided to collect log books and escort FBI agents as part of the death investigation.” MR. ae : Were any OIG there at the time? Ee : Not that I know of. There ple coming in and were so many wu 3 OQ ue oO is) out, taking computers, I don’t, I could have EFTA00114556

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 been escorting OIG and I didn’t even know. a ) : 5 th = af o Basically, Captain | made me go along and go and try, 5 docum 6 that I did 8 the rest of the 9 day t ioe) ie] 16 Noel as a newer officer, but had no per 17 relationship with either.” 18 No 19 All right. Cool. 20 missed or failed to capture? 21 ae: No. I was being 22 as you were reading it. 23 future, is 24 25 EFTA00114557

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 84 All right. Great. So now, so, everything seemed accurate, as far as this was written? Perfect. MR. ae: I just have a couple of Okay. You mentioned round sheets. Please. Go ahead. Do you recall if here, at the M in the SHU, the round sheets are kept at the end of each tier? Or are they kept on the desk? the end of each range. MR. a: So, as a lieutenant, at that point, when you made your, if They’ re supposed to be kept wu ct you had made your rounds -- a: If I have seen the sheets on the desk, I would always tell the officers they need to be downrange, not on your desk. And I would not initial were, I wouldn’t initial them EFTA00114558

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LIMITED ies) w co wo i=) ive) oO co OFFICIAL would you USE Uh-huh. So, on that note, alw go downrange to grab i ae: No. There was times a : As of late, as of la it on the desk and I would be need to be downrange. , So, you’re, when supposed to walk But oftentimes, tt then, +9 en you would go into sign that document, wh , yo like, -- to sign it there? o re oo wi I walk they are now. It all depends on what cause the morning wa overnight lieutenant, has those sheets lieutenant, EFTA00114559

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE oo a 1 offic i) rs are doing their rounds. 2 MR. QE: so, when NMJ did her 3 round on August 9, 2019, should she have had to 4 have gone downrange, especially on the range 5 that Epstein was on? 6 a: If the round sheets were downrange. And that’s where wo i=) e supposed to be. 11 MR. Ee : Okay. And if they e should have notified SHU. Hey, nN 0 Hi O 5 rt its > ive) het 18) c ite} co ee is] got to be keeping these down here? K oO 7) 5 MR. QM: «411 right. And is the 16 purpose of that, though, to ensure that people 7 are doing rounds and that’s where it, when they 8 sign that? 9 a: Well, that’s where they’re 20 supposed to be, for the sal of the officers, 21 that’s, it’s to pre nt fudging the round 22 sheets. 23 MR. QM: Richt. 24 a: You know, if they’re down on 25 the desk, and you can just write whatever you EFTA00114560

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 87 1 want, for lack of better terms. Look, I’m 2 (Indiscernible *00:59:40) I’11l call a spade a 3 space. Right? If somebody is going to fudge 4 around, it’s easier for them to do it that way. 5 MR. QM: | ub-houh. oO a: Then if it’s downrange. If it’s downrange, you have to go downrange. 8 MR. QM: Right. you’ re going to look in wo 10 each cell and then when you get to the end of 11 that tier, that’s when you scribble your time. 2 That’s why it’s easier for that round sheet and 3 that camera to jive. 4 MR. QE: uh-huh. 5 a: Cause they’re downrange. oO No, no. And the point of the Lee) 5 9 lieutenant signing it is not that the 20 lieutenant did the rounds -- 21 a: It’s sure that the 22 officers are doing what they’re supposed to be. 23 MR. a: Okay. Do you recall any special instructions coming down from the ho No w Warden or the Captain, regarding Epstein? EFTA00114561

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 ee 2 that he was high-profi Not 3 MR. QJ: what 4 instructions from yc 6 basically the same, li 7 bunkie. He is high-pr 8 MR. QJ: = But 9 instructions, like you 10 lieutenant, there was 11 (Indiscernible *01:00: 2 a: 3 our instructions were 4 present when he moved. 15 escort him, that I rec 7 you got Who was that 9 Captain 20 MR. a: 21 all that. 23 I’m not, I’m not exact 24 out. oO ~ wu ket 25 MR. GR: oo oo hing as far as, like, le. You know. was the, you mentioned hology, right? huh. Which were ke, you know, he needs a ofile. there was no are never, asSa no special instructions oO ). he was a lieutenant move, a lieutenant has to be So, a lieutenant has to all. email you mentioned that We’re going to go through Correctional Servi ces. ly sure who sent that EFTA00114562

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2 all the department heads. o \o It would be generated from 3 MR ae : Okay. That’s it. That’s all 4 I had 5 MR a : Okay. But you’re 6 familiar with the SHU, orrect? 7 a: Yes Yes 9 all right Great. Looking at this camera 10 angle, this is a still shot. Can you tell me 11 what it is that we’re looking at here? 2 a: This is the camera that’s up 3 in, on the upper tier, by the 46 door, which is 4 going into 10 South. This camera view right 15 here is of the multipurpose area. These stairs 16 right here, that you can barely make out, this 7 would be G tier. B MR. QR: okay. 9 a: H tier. J, | tier down 20 there You can’t see L and M. This little 21 shadow right here is the pipe, but that’s about 22 all you can see of L tier. And then M tier is 23 down those steps, and that’s the OIC’s station. 24 MR. a : So, from this camera 25 angle, this, if Epstein is in L tier, would you EFTA00114563

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 90 1 be able to see if people were going up and down L tier, from this camera angle? ies) You would be able to see a 4 quick movement, but not the full, cause you w can’t see the steps. Oo a H 13) there a way for them, 7 over this way, to like, go over here and go up 8 here without you seeing them come up, or is 9 this so close -- 10 a : No, no, no. This is 11 totally, this is elevated. This area right 2 here, this is a staircase door. 3 MR. a : Okay. 4 Ee: This is an elevated 15 position. You can’t, this camera would see 16 staff coming up. 7 MR. ae : Oh, but as far as this 8 angle, though, could you, could you, if anybody 9 was going up and down L tier -- 20 HS: 8d if anybody was coming 21 this way -- 22 MR. ae : -- could you tell that 23 from here? 24 a: -- and going up, you would 25 be able to, like I said, you would be able to EFTA00114564

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 91 1 see a flash of movement, but you really 2 wouldn’t be able to see, judging from the way 3 this picture is, you really wouldn’t be able to 4 see much of the actual step climbing. 5 MR. a : Okay. But could anybody 6 get up to L tier without you seeing from this 7 angle in the SHU? 8 a : Well, you would see them go 9 this way. But whether or not they were walking 10 towards the kitchen or going up to L tier would 11 be hard to distinguish, just from looking at 2 this. If the camera were there -- 3 MR. a : So, is this a blind spot? 4 Could someone come from this way and go up L 15 tier without you seeing? 20 straight outside and then go 21 . 22 this staircase that is clearly visible, 23 the officer’s station, Yes. 16 a : Yes. Yeah. 7 doubt. 8 MR. a : Okay. 9 a: From, you right? Without a could come from up. All right. And what, And right to the left of EFTA00114565

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 92 1 the officer’s station, what is that staircase 2 going to? 3 That’s going to J tier. 4 Okay. Awesome. 5 on this first page is the 7 a : Wait. Which, first tier? this is the, we have oo 5 is) but this is o ct 7 o fs bh wu he Oo c rt H rt un fo] oO ct ue] @ Rk Hh oO a ct i=) 1 ee: Yeah. Cause I’m trying to, ive) oO co 9 a: I can barely see it. 20 MR. Ee : Yeah. Maybe that’s G. I 21 don’t know. 24 what I’m going to 25 looking at this -- EFTA00114566

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LIMITED ies) w co io ioe) co its) No N No Wa OFFICIAL USE wo There it i J. MR. a : -- keeping in mind where station is -- ee: And this is L. 0} n MR. QJ: -- and where this is, can location of where this MR. a : Looking down? creation. MR. Ee : So, if you’re looking at put a big circle would be. This is J tier. right there, so, right t! going up and M would be down, yeah. That’s right. So, this is basically where the -- MR. a : So then you middle. EFTA00114567

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LIMITED ies) w co io ioe) co OFFICIAL USE , so, if you’re looking is that, can you put a stairc This And this perfect. And straight at this, star next is J tier, right All rt righ is M. this is what would where Oh, right. the way this panning from, if this EFTA00114568

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ite] wi rm 1 lieutenant’s office up there. That’s here, in 2 the corner. And I think the camera is above office. WwW ct J D hb Hn o c ct o =] mv 5 rt n 5 e right here, 6 But it should 7 be, it’s somewhere over here, the camera and oo ct J o ie] wu =| i) kR wu ue] nl] 5 7) ine a wu rt = wu 2 AJ fu 5 kK Oo c = is +t ue) is oy st) ia ct fw a] Oo ct 7 oO int oO a] 5 ion t 5 + 7 wu = ie) re. @ 5 a 1 write camera? All right. Perfect. Do you 2 mind ju initialing and dating that? And then ive) we’re also -- 4 Ee: Eight, today is the 4th, 5 cause it’s my daughter’s birthday. 7 Birthday. 8 ee: Twenty-one. 9 MR. Ee : How old? 20 ee : Twenty-one. 21 MR. QJ: «oh, wow. 22 and date that, that we’re looking -- you initial 23 24 25 So, all right. Thank you. That confirms what EFTA00114569

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 96 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 this is, thank you. And this is someone else’s drawing. I just want to see, this kind of (Indiscernible *01:06:32) this is actually what we said here. Yeah, so it looks like, and this is everything. Cool. Now, was there, you said, you mentioned a bulletin board that had the hot list? Where would that be? a : Well, I can’t, right here, it’s hard to tell from that, but usually, the hot list should be somewhere right up there on the hook. MR. a : Okay, so this is the bulletin board here? WN:—-s Xcah. And there’s also, now, I don’t, not then, but there was, there’s, there was stuff up here, but not, I don’t believe it was a bulletin board. It’s a bulletin board now, if you go up there. MR. QJ: | 4.11 right. a: But there was, the hot list used to be right there. It should have been right there, by where the phone was. MR. a : All right. So, I’m going to write above it, B board. So this is where the bulletin board was? EFTA00114570

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LIMITED Oo w ot) oO oo OFFICIAL USE 97 MR. a : And this was, you said J ing to wri with an arrow going up. | tier would be MR. a: And is that sing down But J was going up? MR. a : All right. And then I’m going to write up here, L tier would ha > right here, going up? EFTA00114571

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LIMITED ioe) w io ioe) © OFFICIAL USE MR. a : All right. So that’s all io on] n 0) a like, in looking at this, where his -- ee: It should be right there. MR. a : That one? Can MR. ae : Perfect. Thanks. ee: His cell could look right desk. If he lox =>d outside down his window -- he could s could look right down MR. a : Okay. And you alreac initialed and dated this. Great. So, if EFTA00114572

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ite] ite) bh het oO c KK @ bh Oo Oo rom b- 5 Q w rt rt o i O] is] S (e) rt 2) i 7) rt o i 7) w photo 2 of L tier, going up? Ww Ke oO ue] 4 MR. a : And would he be over w Za oO 4K oO 6 a: He would be the first cell, 7 right, in this corner most, right here, is the ies) Uv shower. But right next to the shower is the wo first cell. 10 MR. a : So if you’re walking up 1 the tier, you open the door, he’ ht to the 7) ive) s going to be the first 4 cell to the right. 5 MR. a : The first cell to the Okay. And I know you can’t really make t oO i P- Q a + 7 out this. Do you have any reason to believe hat wouldn’t be his cell? 9 a: Well, I can’t even make out 20 the number. 21 MR. ae : Right. And then, you 22 know, this is the tier. This is L tier, going co rt 23 down. Is this a camera, right here? EFTA00114573

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 100 1 to be recording everything going on here? 3 recording everything, facing this way. So, 4 like, it would see you walk, it would see, if 5 this is me, first person, coming up this way, 6 it would film everything from the grill back to 7 where it is. 8 MR. a : And is this where the 9 round sheet is supposed to be located? 11 MR. Ee : Is there, do you even see 2 anything, where it could be? 3 ee : It might be that speck 4 right, no, that’s too high. It might be, there 15 might be a little hole, I can’t tell. hat’s where it’s 16 MR. QJ: «Bot supposed to be located? 8 a: Yeah. At the end of the -- 9 MR. Ee : Right underneath the rr 20 camera? 21 a: No. I’m sorry. They had 22 gotten moved. I believe that right now, 23 they’re down there, but they might, I think 24 they were on the wall here, at the beginning of 25 the tier or on the other side. I’m not 100% EFTA00114574

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 101 2 MR. a : Okay. So, back then, wouldn’t have been at the end of the hall? ies) ct + ii were probably at the beginning of the wi ct b- oO K 6 a: I know at one point in time, the clipboard was being rested on oO a Would this be underneath where it 1 It’s always on the 2 inside of the range 3 MR on the inside? 4 Okay. 16 MR. Ee : So it would have been 7 after you opened the range door, but not at the 8 end of the hall at that time? 9 a: I know I, like I said, at 20 one point, they had it on the wall to the side, 21 but at one point in time, they were putting the 22 clipboard, they were just resting it on that 23 pipe. 25 ee : As long as it was downrange, EFTA00114575

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 102 1 it needed to be downrange. 2 MR. a : So, even at that time, it was supposed to be downrange? downrange. ies) w co wo And 11 so, we had to review a lot of emails and I see, Ww un w kK n w ire] oO mh Hh Bb a Bb ra an = i] .Q fu bh J 0 paar jon 3 0 + = 0 o rh io) RK F Les] i] hy rai a K p. Q on ct oO I jon he O & 20 20 21 MR. ae : So you still have all 22 23 don’t h anything. 24 SA had my memo. I don’t 25 of my memo. EFTA00114576

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 103 2 : And I don’t, I didn’t tear up anything. ae: And I’ve been getting these 6 periodically from you guys. 7 MR. a : Oh, you still do? Okay. t ies) w cs] fos) . K oO wv a Do you still have, like, i=) all the emails from back then and ever 2 had, I either just closed out of, but the thing i) an, anything that I ive) is, I didn’t, I don’t even remember having ly 4 direct emails. All the official emails, like, 5 I, like, sent them to my trash bin, like even 16 these, I mean, this was just telling me not to 7 destroy anything, and I didn’t destroy 8 9 Okay. 20 I 23 received an email pertaining to Epstein, were 24 you supposed to save that, or could have you EFTA00114577

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 104 1 a: What do you mean? In, like, ies) a Yeah, like, for instance, 4 this is another one that, I think this is the 5 email that you would have received, regarding 6 Epstein being required to ye a cellmate from 7 2019? 8 a : Oh, yeah, yeah. No, these, 9 would get them and delete them. 10 MR. a : All right. So you would 11 delete those? nN K i) wp a ae 5 em wu i) b 2) 5 Q wu a HR ive) knew, you know, that was it. 4 MR. ae : So, you didn’t 15 understand, like, this to mean, like, not to 16 delete anything pertaining to Epstein? 7 ee: No, but the thing is, at 8 least I never got anything like this, after it 9 happened. 20 MR. QJ: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m 21 talking about, like, prior to, I think that 22 this is asking you to save anything that was 23 related to Epstein, correct? 24 ee: Yeah, no. I get what that, 25 you know, that, I didn’t think that that was EFTA00114578

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 105 what it meant. Like these. These were just routine things. I thought it meant -- MR. a : Okay. Well, that came from yours. So, you didn’t, I was able t Oo Q o ct , at least. MR. a : You may have deleted it, but my point being is, like -- HN: h-huh. Well, I misunderstood, maybe. I’m thinking destroying means shredding. MR. a : But if you received an email pertaining to Epstein, you thought you could delete it? itting in my trash bin. I don’t always empty my trash. I mean, anybody in the Bureau could pull those emails anyway. a : Yeah, I thought i like, physically, like, destroying st ct 3 i) im 5 rt Like, I wish I could even have a copy of my memo, but A EFTA00114579

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 106 u instance, this says, “Please preserve all electronic files; example, emails or ies) w you co io 12 maliciously. 14 and that’s what I wanted to 15 EE: bho. 16 MR. Ee : -- cause a lot of people 17 got this, so you’re the first person I’m even ioe) No, n t oo wu 7) — b 3 eT] o 12) c ct + J A 13 20 21 tle 22 you not know -- ally, like, it meant, 24 actually, stroying 25 things, like, in the shredder. EFTA00114580

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LIMITED oO io ioe) oO oo wo OFFICIAL USE 107 H was, was like, it And you already you remember receiving this email id \e D pw EFTA00114581

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LIMITED ies) w co io ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 108 And you knew he was cellmate? you mentioned before? from Captain a. I beli e there was one, as far as when he, e would be put as a lieutenant hold. This is the one I was talking about, like, MR. ae : Thank you, sir. Now, as far as this, you said no one this is a memo from, at the time, EFTA00114582

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 109 1 MR. QJ: G-R-I-g-a-L-v-a. It 2 says, “Past information from Special Housing ” Ww i= 5 p. rt “On Friday, August 9, 2019, at w oO 7] that inmate it Les] wu ] o re] Oo a it) Bb oa F Na 3 rT] he 5 fe} rt tad ci) + i} Kh 3 1 aah n fe} wo be needing a cellmate upon arrival 10 from his attorr visit.” Did you know ive) the first you’re 5 a: That’s the first I’m seeing t o oO Ph = rt to these Les] ct J im 3 Q U hy ' kK it) rt # fr ue] wu n its] o QQ oO >] EFTA00114583

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LIMITED 1 OFFICIAL MR. a : And the present o a. When would he have working? MR. ae : All right. So, I think y been working as -- notified either you or EFTA00114584

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE I found out the day after it happened. wasn’t told. Like I Well, 111 said, the day that it , when I came in. MR a : Now, on the second note of WAB, ave ave should ct prior to his departure, at 1:50 2 he’s w = o eh ct wu an fos) e into R&D, keyed Should a new have been assigned to Epstein, to do it as soon as possible. even prior to you know, during his oi) S Pp. Ht rt Anybody that was on that, cellimate cellmate It would have been prudent Epstein a new that is mentioned there, should have been, if the knowledge got passed, it was never passed to the lieutenants MR. a : Okay. But, oka} And then if the lieutenants knew, so, for instance, EFTA00114585

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 112 Reyes is gone, should have he notified them that he was WAB gone? Or, so, if he believed he was at court, WAB -- Uh-huh. Uh-huh. know Reyes is gone. I ow he is Epstein’s Q cellmate Is there any reason, and especially if he went WAB, is there any reason, any argument for 7 to be made that, well, I didn’t know if he was coming back or not? a: If he wasn’t notified that he was WAB, it would, you wouldn’t know. if he didn’t know he was WAB, it is an argument if he wasn’t, to be made t he could have come fe) back, is that correct? had to have known that he was WAB? had to have known he was WAB, if he knew he he would have If he didn’t, he would have EFTA00114586

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 113 wi ~] 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 wasn’t coming home, like, coming home, coming back to the jail. MR. QJ: Okay. =All right. If he knew he was WAB, he should have acted and gotten him a new cellmate. If he didn’t know he was WAB, then it was okay for him not to issue him a new cellmate? a : Yeah. If he didn’t know he wasn’t coming back or if he was even gone, he wouldn’t know. That’s why I said, if the white shirts didn’t get notified, we don’t know what’s happening. MR. a : Yeah, yeah. But you had, so, let me ask you separately. If QJ says, yep, I knew Reyes was, I knew Reyes was gone. I knew Reyes was Epstein’s cellmate. And he didn’t know he was WAB. Was it okay for him not to have acted? a: No. If he was told, it was not okay. MR. a : But if he wasn’t told that he was WAB, he was just told he went to court. ee: I mean, at that point in time, I would have been a little worried that EFTA00114587

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LIMITED ies) w co io ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 114 h i) was alon 0) , but you’re talking day watch, there’s constant movement. MR. a : Well, if Epstein’s down in attorney visits until 8 p.m. -- WN: Xc2h.) That’s probably what happened. MR. a : And what time did i ed him at just about was gone, but I didn’t know he wasn’t coming back, would that translate to mean he didn’t If he didn’t think that EFTA00114588

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 115 there was an issue, no. that there was gone, being that it was Epstein, Should have he told you he was required to have a cellmate, and Reyes was at court? a: If he knew, then he should have notified me. MR. a : So, regardless if he was WAB or not, he should have notified you that at court? see, this is where it’s hard to tell. Look, At that point in time, so, when you’re Operations Lieutenant, you’re moving, you’re working the entire institution. you can see, filling that roster was a You're filling overtime. As nightmare. this, you’re doing that. You’re doing a Uh-huh. All right? You’re doing million things. Right? You may not even know that this guy even went to court. MR. a : But if he says he knew? If he says he knew -- EFTA00114589

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 116 1 MR. Ee : He says he knew he went 2 to court. He just didn’t he wasn’t WwW a 12) =] = 5 .Q o wu a — t = to ie) = t > wu t fo Q Pp Fh ci) kK o o t H rh 7 o knew, if he said he knew, then something should w 6 have happened. 7 MR. a : So, if he knew he went to 8 court, even if he says, I didn’t know if he wo wasn’t coming back or not, he should have at i=) least notified you, though, hey, heads-up, it was nN > i a Cc K o w I Oo KR 3 just, or at least tell the OIC, like, listen, 4 if Epstein comes back up and this guy is not 5 back from court a 16 bunkie. 4 8 ng should 9 have been put in place. 20 MR. Ee : So, || should have at 21 least, should he notified either, should have 22 notified, it sounds like, both you, as well as, 23 in case, who was the OIC at the time? EFTA00114590

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LIMITED oO io ioe) oO oo wo OFFICIAL USE 117 though, I think, for, like, the whole, is it ned as SHU-1 MR. QM: cost: suu-1? though, ae So, | should have notified he EFTA00114591

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ioe) oO oo 118 sure that if back from legal And || And should have he ee: -- that he wasn’t going to told. MR. ae : Great. But what I’m a : If he knew that he was -- MR. ae : -- even if he didn’t know he was, so, if his argument is -- Just the fact that he was EFTA00114592

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co © No N No WW OFFICIAL USE 119 that he was going to not have a bunkie, I If he knew that, if he knew I should have known, being coming on. MR. QJ: So, this is where I’m to focus on my words. I’m sorry. Right now, I’m asking, if know that that if) wo b- Hh }, regardless he was coming back or not, he should have WN: Wiel 1, see, that’s the thing. We don’t always, we don’t know who went to Uh-huh. I just didn’t know if he Should have he relayed EFTA00114593

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 120 1 that information to you? 7 because of .) K 1) ifs) ie its] re} o 5 pe i] be be kK ioe) uld have I just wanted to te) a. it) ct o ct 3 i + 11 MR. Ee : And he did not, ioe) in oO oo if] s a lieutenant on the desk. EFTA00114594

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LIMITED ioe) w K oO fu > H > y t my on w e) + oc fw i bh k io ioe) its) OFFICIAL USE 121 could have ended at 2? a by ct a i) KR oO C i= t jon o Oo re w ue] from 2 to 4 with -- common. we didn’t have a regular lieut for the 2 to 10 activities. get, as a lieutenant, especially as and Activities, would get MR. Ee : And then was that something that you were supposed to review ee: It’s basically, if we needed It shows that it was ed Thursday, A ugust 8, 2019, EFTA00114595

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 122 1 ME: 2h. o 9 the 1 at 11 12 second 13 list down was Are you able to 14 tell from this at all what it was that was 15 going on with Efrain R that da oO ry. That would 17 be the time that he had to go down to court. oo wo RED. this transfer within 22 I’m not familiar It 23 on stuff 24 MR. a : But this would have been 25 what This is the email that EFTA00114596

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LIMITED Oo w ot) oO oo 23 OFFICIAL USE 123 MR. a : I pulled this from your curious, is don’t jump ng about. MR. ae : On the third page, it was just going -- a : That’s the time that he was EFTA00114597

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LIMITED No No No ies) w co ive) co wo ion) OFFICIAL USE 124 : No. It would, I believe it SDNY or EDNY, or whatever, whatever fu MR. a : -- does that assume that he’s not coming ba ee: Now, that has changed before. Like, ve been pre-removed and then come back -- be kind of aw a : Well, we would get sent there would be someti with the officers in the bh 3 @ ifs] morning, getting the inmates out to court. EFTA00114598

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LIMITED ies) wi co ive) oO fos) OFFICIAL USE 125 calling for this guy and I would just bring this up, and be like, yeah, he’s on the list. But we wouldn’t study this. We would just, we were included in the MasskeaitisMar because we would be the supervisors. MR. Ee : Now, if he was actually being transferred to another institution -- | RR MR. a : -- would he be also ee: No, he would be on MR. QJ: | 411 right. an email from also the U.S. Maesh Service, from a Choo, C-H-O-O -- Po : Okay. MR. a : -- subject, “Transfer of Prisoners from NYM to GEO.” MR. SJ: «what's EFTA00114599

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 1 MR. QJ: | tn New york? 2 Ee : Yes. I believe it’s in New York. I’m not sure. 4 MR. a : Okay. And this one is ho C ive) 5 also dated Thursday, August 8, 2019. 6 “The following prisoners are to be 7 transferred.” Here it says, “Reyes, Efrain.” 8 a 9 transfer for Friday, Do you know 10 would email, on August 11 8°, as well as a prisoner production on August No. That’s whatever WwW 2 ° seen oO something like that before? 7 ee: What, moving an inmate? Well, so, on this, it Lee) 5 n i] kk ] a o +] going to court, right? 21 MR. ae : But on this one, it says 22 he’s being transferred. 23 Ee : Quite honestly, it’s, I know 24 I’ve seen, like I said, like on the 38, I’m 25 just going, I’m sorry, I’m going BOP-wise. EFTA00114600

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 127 w ~] ive) MR. Ee : And then the 38 -- Ee : On the 38, see, like, GCT release, full-time release, FT release, or like you see here, the pre-remove status and stuff like that. MR. a : Yeah, so that’s kind of where we’re trying to, we’re trying to put these pieces together. Why would he be on an email here, saying that prisoner schedule report, listing him as court. Here, saying ra} he’s being transferred, excuse me, to the GEO. MR. a : And then on the 38, showing he’s pre-removed. a: Yeah. I guess, I’m assuming, I could be wrong, this is just the way our computer, the way our system puts it in. Like, this right here, the FT release, ct that means this guy maxed out. He’s not going to, like, a halfway house or anything like that. Where is it? Pre-remove means he’s being transferred. MR. a : Pre-remove means he’s being transferred? ee : Transferred. EFTA00114601

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 128 1 MR. Ee : And do you know if this 2 thing next to him would be that transfer ies) thing? Would that be -- 4 ee: I don’t know. KH have, I can’t answer that. 6 MR. a : Okay. Giovanne Bousy. w 7 (Phonetic Sp. *01:29:42). Where’s that gu 8 Yeah, so, Bousy officer transfer -- 9 10 pre-remove 11 But these other guys don’t seem to say transfer 2 within. So, is this something like, if this is 3 being sent to the lieutenant, should you be 4 able to look at this and say, like, transfer 5 within, that means he’s out of here? 16 a : Honestly, I can’t answer 7 that. 8 MR. a : Okay. 9 a: I have never looked, I have 20 honestly never looked at that part. never looked at it. No No Ww Nm : rm H x | oO So, when you receive 24 this, do you, as the Ops Lieutenant, Ac 25 Lieutenant, look at these things, these EFTA00114602

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE prisoner production lists? Ee : I would glance at it, and I would see what it is, but I would normally, I’m not going to lie. I would put it off to the side, because I would only really use that if there was a problem with the officers getting the inmates to court. calling the lieutenants trying to get this dude they’ re not sending him, and then I would look. MR. QJ: | 411 right. Ee: I didn’t look at it every MR. Ee : -- saying he’s transfer within here, and he’s here being, you know, prison production list, and this one is being the transfer order for these two people. at EFTA00114603

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 130 ies) w ~l wo 10 11 ive) 8:38, he is listed as pre-remove. So, we’re being notified that Reyes is leaving the institution. With these notifications from the U.S. MeseskatiisMarshals Service, who should have acted? Who should have known, Reyes isn’t coming back? ee: I mean, whoever saw it first. MR. a : Who, is there somebody, like, that’s responsible for, like, saying, like, all right? a: Everybody in this address box gets it from the MaxeskhaiisMarshals. It goes out at the same time. MR. QJ: 9 sure. MR. a : And that’s what I mean, there’s a lot of people there. ee : Yeah. And that’s the thing. MR. a : There’s a lot of people here, and there’s less people on this one. | —i (sss MR. Ee : This one, it looks like it’s, does this look, can you indicate from the transfer email, can you tell at that time who those people would have been? EFTA00114604

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LIMITED oO io ioe) oO oo wo OFFICIAL USE 131 R&D staff. MR. wu he actual transfer notice. person transfer within. like, status hearing, sentencing, change of MR. a : So, being that we got this going to this EFTA00114605

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 also, custody, saying that, 2 being transferred within, is 3 that should have known it? I 4 one that should have said, li 5 he’s leaving this institution 6 Epstein’s cellmate. Who shou 7 to take action on this? 9 know. 10 VR. a: 1 a I can’t, I You don you know, s it, I don’t know. 132 he is it the captain the who is ke, yes, we know - This is ld have been able can’t, I don’t ‘t know? I don’t know 12 who would have been the main person responsible 3 for it. I mean, I guess everybody, I guess 14 it’s for everybody’s eyes, but it wasn’t 15 something that routinely got utilized. 16 MR. Ee : Is this something that 17 would have been, if this is a transfer within, 8 this transfer notice, is this something that 9 the SHU staff would have been notified of? 20 Saying -- 21 a: No. SHU, I don’t believe 22 SHU -- Cause t 24 this. the COs hey’re not on were tagged on EFTA00114606

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 Wo ios) 1 it. 2 MR. a : But I’m saying, like, as far as, here’s the, you know, whatever -- 4 a : Well, the inmates, whatever ies) 5 comes on that, whatever R&D gets from the 6 | MarsheitisMarshals Service, they put out their 7 own court list to the staff. 8 MR. QE: uh. 9 ee: The officers get regular 10 court lists generated. So those names of those 11 inmates would get put on the court, the call 2 out list Ww Fs) 2) ioe it) het 4 Ee : And for the court list, and 15 that court list gets handed out in the morning. 16 MR. Ee : Okay. So, as far as 7 this, it looks like we know he’s being 8 transferred, and now that we’re seeing that 9 these two guys that were being transferred are 20 both li ted on this prisoner schedule report as 21 transfer within -- 22 EE: bho. 23 MR. a : -- what should R&D have 24 done? Should have they, are the people that 25 are listed on that court list, are they also EFTA00114607

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 134 the people that are being transferred to other \ titutions? list, it would say exactly what they are. If the court list, it would know, court. It would say, or, it would say, you know, WAB. and then they send that out to the housing units, including SHU. MR. Ee : So, again, if, you know, going back to that memo, | knows, it says, would it say WAB or court? Or both? it’s WAB, it would y, it would say, I think it says FT remove, or I’m not 100% sure. I haven’t se oO n one in so long. MR. a : Okay. All right. So you’re not exactly sure what it said, but -- MR. ae : -- it’s all the document of the people the or) ame need to bring down kK that morning? a: Yeah, but it’s, all of this is not on that. EFTA00114608

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LIMITED No No No ies) w co ive) co wo ion) OFFICIAL USE Right. inmate’s name and that he’s got court and p.m. wu 3 court, time the actual court meaning he’s the morning, MR. a : Okay. afternoon. a court list, once R&D opens. All right. And SHU gets that unit. for instance, But again, that knows him down to R&D, he walks list. got to be down there at just like every ay th ro] he o to be in, it last from the would be that legal, other hx sing i: i, he’s WAB Again, you’re sayin s WAB t coming back unless something All right. it sounds EFTA00114609

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 1 like | is the one who actually should Ww 7 2 have, at the very least, notified his 3 superiors, hey, we need to get him a new 4 cellmate. Is it okay that he has wrote this 5 memo, Saying, I passed it on. You know, I knew 6 at 8:38 he was WAB, but I passed it on to the 2 ~] p.m. people, make sure he gets a cellmate? 8 a : I don’t, like, can you, I’m 9 sorry. 10 MR. a : So, I’m just trying to 11 figure out who messed up here. Cause 2 obviously, Epstein’s required to have a 3 cellmate. We saw from that email. t wi ~ a 16 We know Re is being transferred. We know 7 he’s gone. 9 MR. Ee : So, we know the day 20 before it happens, there’s emails that go out. 21 We know at 8:38, R&D listed him as pre-remove. 22 He’s gone from this institution. However, 23 Epstein never gets a new cellmate. 25 MR. a : Somebody doesn’t take EFTA00114610

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 137 1 action. So, what I’m trying to figure out is, 5 oO i) Zz ie) c = . J at] ii) ct wu i) =] a] Q rt c is) =] WwW H 3 © wu 3 H a Oo 3 ~ + He d ow] ct 4 make that decision. I don’t know. w co io 11 HN: St should have kr mn about ioe) MR. QJ: uh-huh. All right. And 14 so, when | is g, would | 15 have known, though, if he were WAB? 16 a : I should have been notified, 17 truth be told, the way, I was brought up in co notifi oO d by the t L (2) H 20 MR. Ee : Right. So, but you 21 weren’t on the schedule? Like, in on EFTA00114611

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LIMITED ies) w co io ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 13 Lo co i) MR. Ee : I’m focusing on th daytime thing. MR. a : What should have WN: the Ofc should notified || should ld have Uh-huh. MR. a : Then what should have he MR. ae : Should have he notified the captain? Or should have he just gotten him told the SHU OIC, falls onto the Ops Lieutenant to have, he to have taken that EFTA00114612

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 wo its] make sure that, ensure 9 2 3 All right. And do you 4 remember, I know you said you didn’t know he but should uw ct K w =} ¥ Hh uy) H K o is) - you know, should 6 you have known by these from this prisoner report? 8 GS: «Sf it ohad read that, well, this, I don’t, wo never seen this before. This one. Qo F y b ‘e} 7 t N Fs MR. a : From looking at it? I would just, from looking ive) a : -- I don’t remember, recall 7 the transfer within. I would always only look you even know? oO co at the names. And know that they have to be 9 generated for a court list. going to court? cnow that the transfer was (Ind No Nm 0] o o ~ *01:37:52) the transfer? 25 top of my head, like, this guy is going here, No ion) A * =] is) = is) Ph Fh ct a o EFTA00114613

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] wo 10 11 this guy is going there. I just know they have to be presented so there’s no problems, like, I said, I would only really refer to that if R&D contacted me and said, hey, LT, this guy, I’m waiting an hour so far for this guy. Can you get on the office? And I’d look, okay, yeah. Hey, Jones, inmate Schmukatelli (Phonetic Sp. *01:38:11) from 7 North, you know, you got to get him to court. MR. QJ: okay. ee: He’s on the court list. MR. a : All right. So, and as the court list, does the Op, like, would || have had that court list, saying, if it said WAB, would have he had that, a. the Ops Lieutenant, have the court list? ee: Yes and no. Sometimes, the internal would drop a copy of the court list off to the lieutenant’s office. Mainly, the main people that need it was internal, and the housing units. MR. QJ: okay. HE: 8d SHU. MR. a : All right. So, the Op Lieutenant isn’t actually provided a copy of if] 140 EFTA00114614

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 141 N H ct if) not required. ive) Fs) All right. Okay. Do let ie] Pa 4 mind just initialing and dating these? w (Indiscernible *01:38:54). 7 transfer email, the one that you signed, who @o ry & ct > p ct Fh K ° 3 oO H rt “ rh is} is) 3 tH lzahr. 10 MR. a: And you mentioned before, 2 a: Yeah. He used to be BOP. he Wa 5 Gy = n rt rt ie) a a fu KR c ial = on 4 working here duri (Indiscernible *01:: t oY No, he was already gone. Les] 5 m i) wn Fh K 2) 3 ct az iui) 9 MarshaiisMarshals Service. The 20 MarskaiisMarshals Service. 21 MR. ae: But before, he said he was 22 working here, and now he’s, I just want to 23 clarify for the record. 24 a : No, he was -- EFTA00114615

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LIMITED ies) w co ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE 142 a: -- gone long before that happened. MR. a : Thank you. Thank you. way, you MR. a : We’re going to keep them, u t nm t sts) Oo we rh = D x wu 0 t Oo H 0 rh 0 Ma + O Tt ws D 5 sier. All Fs H om fw rt i) a) ea right. So, what time is the daily activities report and the lieutenant’s log usually sent out in the mornings for the day before? on the morning the morning watch sure that before my shift is done, I send out the whole thing, that’s the roster, cause if you look at the back, the last person to sign it is the evening watch lieutenant. EFTA00114616

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 143 w ~] ive) a: I now, as the morning watch lieutenant, you know, the 10 to 6 or 12 to 8, whichever it is, this, I have to print out the daily log, the three daily logs from the midnight to 8, prior, the day shift, and the evening watch and there’s a thing that, and it gets emailed to the exec staff, the captain, and I believe it used to get emailed to the executive assistant, if I’m not mistaken. MR. QJ: okay. ee: There was a certain amount of people on the thing. MR. a : But is it supposed to be done, basically, the morning, the morning watch shift ends at 6 a.m., correct? MR. ae : So it’s supposed to be, like, sent out before 6 a.m.? MR. QJ: «411 right. So, I have these emails from Tuesday, August 6, 2019. from August 7*" was sent at 5:03 a.m. For some reason, I wasn’t able to look at Thursday, but Friday, August 9*°, was sent out at 5:11 a.m. EFTA00114617

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 144 1 And then Saturday, August 10, 2019, it wasn’t 2 sent out until almost, almost 9:30 a.m. ies) Ww * o Pp a ie) rary Co K re) o a 5 5) = = Ss w rt } rt 3 bp .Q J cr have been because she co of her shift, because 9 oi] But if that didn’t kick ive) e, the person relieved her by 6 a.m. -- 4 MR. a: co e wouldn’t have sent it out before her shift 21 ae: I don’t know. 22 MR. ae : You don’t know? 23 Ee : No, I don’t know. 24 MR. a : All right. And then the next couple of days, EFTA00114618

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 145 1 Sunday, August 11‘, it actually doesn’t, isn’t 2 sent out until 6:15 a.m., and then the day 3 after that, August 12°, it actually isn’t sent 4 out until 6:36 a.m. 5 ae: Yeah. It all depends on, 6 like, what, like I said, I mean, that’s a 7 different story. That was an emergency 8 situation, but there’s things, other things 9 that happen. You get tied up. You got to get 10 pulled, you know, got to go see the captain. 11 You got to go, you’re in R&D, dealing with 12 something, and then you don’t get to close out. 13 Especially if you’re doing a double, too. 14 MR. QJ: Okay. So, in this case, 15 though, in these cases, like, for the morning 16 watch Ops Lieutenant, do they sometimes get 17 relieved and that’s when they work on, oh, I 18 got to get all the, I got to get the activity, 19 or I got to get the daily log and lieutenant’s 20 log up-to-date now? 21 Ee : h-bun. 22 MR. a : And then stay behind to 23 do that? 24 ee: As far as, well, after 25 you’re relieved? EFTA00114619

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 146 ies) a w bottom line is, as a lieutenant, you should not 6 be leaving and leaving stuff incomplete. 8 Lieutenant’s responsibility to complete it 10 And then once it’s fF Ww K oO w The morning 14 Operations Lieutenant -- 16 a : -- is the one that a] 5 ra w Oo = ct c fos) Ps) fe] an = K p. i; ct U oO rt J 0) th fu a ct 20 stayed behind in order to finish it? Ee : That definitely could be the No No Wa No 0 wu 3) o yu mind ju n EFTA00114620

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 147 1 initialing and dating that? 2 Ee : Sure. MR. a : All right. Thank you. 4 Now, here is the one that we were just talking ies) 5 about, that Po sent out on 6 Saturday, August 10, 2019, at 9:26 a.m. As 7 you’1l see, this is August 10°. So I just want 8 to draw your attention to a few things. 9 Friday, , that starts at 12 a.m., then 10 we get to 8:30 a.m. On this daily activities 11 log, it shows at 8:38 a.m., Reyes, from the 2 SHU, or from Z06-220 UAD to pre-remo Who 3 would have filled that out? Do you know? 4 Ee: The Operations Lieutenant. c Ww a by tt ct J o ct my =I o 16 a : Yeah. Day watch operations. 7 MR. QM: all right. is it R&D 8 should have called and told the Operations 9 Lieutenant, hey, this person is pre-removed and 20 that’s how, how would they get that 21 information? 22 a : No, well, normally, we would 23 do a 38. 24 MR. a : Okay. So, as in, that, 25 he would have been entered in the system at EFTA00114621

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LIMITED ho ho ho No i) ioe) w io © Wa OFFICIAL USE 148 that time, saying remove? : Uh-huh. That would, yeah, and then, cause as the inmates HS: Bt wouldn’t, I mean, we do have the 38 that I showed you a rt oo Wo oo oO c rt would this be ie) inf ct 7 o Lieutenant? The day watch fu Ww oo would print out we would read off MR. ae : So, would only, so, for MR. ae : So, i would, could, should, could anyone after ma. like, you or EFTA00114622

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 149 1 update the log. 2 MR. a : And is that a problem, if Ww ct a @ Q o rt a wu t 4 ee: I don’t know. I guess now w No, no, no. I’m not, I oO a 7 don’t know that it’s a problem or not. 8 a : No, we, we, we, it’s common 9 practice. It’s like, if, you know, we could go 10 back and correct, cause this way, look, also, 11 if an incident happened on day watch, I’m not 2 talking about this incident. If, let’s say, 3 there was a use of force. 4 MR. QE: uh-huh. 15 a: And that day watch 16 lieutenant is running the use of force team, 7 the oncoming lieutenant could, like, update the 8 log, so that lieutenant could finish what, you 9 know, he or she was doing with the move. 20 MR. QJ: Okay. But in this case, pre-removed right No rar wu rt ao Ww o 5 oO = 22 here. 24 MR. a : Who do you believe would 25 have entered that? EFTA00114623

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 150 1 a: It should, in my opinion, it 2 would be the day watch Operations Lieutenant. ies) Fs) And then, again, if it’s 4 listed as pre-removed, would they have known, 5 hey, Reyes is gone? He’s not coming back. 6 ae: That should be an indicator, 8 MR. a : Okay. And again, that 9 would have been so entered this ‘ 10 and it actually s pre-remove. Hey, Reyes a new roommate or Ww Cc 7 a c Ss 4 MR. ae : All right. Do you 5 remember anything regarding, I know this is at 16 | 3:415 p.m., 7 placed on dry 8 anything involving I don’t recall. 20 MR. QJ: 411 right. 1/11 show you ite] H Q 12] s rt 21 some emails later. But, this, again, do you 22 believe that would have been the Ops Lieutenant 23 that would have entered that? 24 ee: Yes. Only a lieutenant is 25 doing this log. EFTA00114624

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 151 2 Ee : That’s the lieutenant’s log. if WwW 5 is) meone after this 4 shift did this, would they have to, like, is enter a line in wi ct 3 © K oO fu 6 here to do, you know, extra? How would they modify this? Would they have to modify 8 everything or can you just enter in -- oO No. You could add a space. 10 Add a space? 11 a space 2 And then do 3 6:31) 4 then just enter the time 5 16 And as far as you’re 7 actually not an issue, if 8 and correct something or -- 9 a: Not that they go back and correct. If you go back and have to add, se now you’re involved in the thing. 22 Like, let’s say if I was coming on and 23 the day watch Operations Lieutenant, I was the 24 evening watch, and I’m relieving you. EFTA00114625

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 152 1 a: And you’re like, 2 a use of force going on upstairs. Right? I 3 got to go run the team. just finish my 4 log? That kind of thing. w : Okay. 6 a: You know? Not so much go 7 back to dot another lieutenant’s I’s and cross 8 another lieutenant’s T’s. 10 a : Just like piggyback off of 11 one another. WwW N he) e oO a. . oO H tal bd fw 3 < is) is) K 8 Le H I w o rt Oo 4 keep leaning in, cause I don’t have glasses. 5 MR. QM: No, no, no. I’m 16 So, 3:15, there’s this, and this is 7 where the confusing part is. We’re not sure 8 who exactly, so this was your shift. 21 part been something that you would have added, 22 or then brought over? It does say it up here. 23 So, does this all just get transferred from 24 this space over to here? 25 ee : Yes. Uh-huh. And then, EFTA00114626

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) anything then has to be added or added or taken away. MR. a : Okay. So, on this one, it says, “I.M. Fernandez, dry cell with staff in R&D.” It says, “Good verbal count announced.” Now, this is where it starts getting a little tricky, because we have to -- a : Uh-huh. Yeah. I had gone home almost at 10:00. This is where, like I said, where the piggyback would be. MR. QJ: Ss Yep. a: | would go, just and close out, because she would be the one here, when the clear count took place. MR. a : Okay. So, this is where things get a little whacky, because we’re saying, it looks like somebody would have possibly modified this, especially, see, look. This one is Saturday, August 10, 201 E:: vb-buh. MR. a : Starting at 12 a.m., Lieutenant G. | assumes duties. The SHU says 73-5. Well, at 12 a.m., it actually came minus one SHU ea) Ae] rt Ke i) ies) wi ny] 3 over as 72- correction, Fernandez, dry cell. Fernandez was 153 EFTA00114627

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 154 1 not keyed out of SHU -- 3 MR. a : -- until 12:35, although 4 he was removed at 3:15 p.m. We’re going to get 5 into the counts now, but all these counts are 6 off. That’s not what the counts were. 8 MR. a : The counts were actually 9 plus one for all of these, although they should 10 have been, these should have been the accurate 11 numbers, but they weren’t. 3 MR. QJ: «it 4 counts, these are listed 75, 15 76. 16 a : Always one more. . : Right. And it’s because 8 this was corrected to go back down to 72-5, and 9 this was 73. So, I’m just trying to piece this 20 together. Would that be, why would have she 21 done that, if she has got listed that there was 22 this correction, why would have she gone back 23 and changed all that stuff? 24 ee: I don’t know. Maybe cause 25 she didn’t want to go back and change it. I EFTA00114628

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE 155 don’t know. I can’t -- a : No, I would want to and verify everything, because then if the count is not right. I would want to ensur i] that the count is right. MR. a : All right. So, let’ its) wQ ie] Ee: I can’t really answer the though. I don’t know why it was done. MR. ae : So, here, just to close the loop with Fernandez, here is, so, for instance, here is a, to the lieutenants, it from | (Phonetic Sp. *01:50:02) n wu kK ou c mt n Ss Wy EFTA00114629

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 156 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 specific form. It looks like this is a synopsis from | on what actually, I guess, transpired. HE: | h-huh. MR. a : I’m assuming maybe you sent it to him or a. So, here is one that | sent to you on Friday, August 39, 2019, at 6:07 p.m. And this is the, you know, synopsis of what happened. “On August 9, 2019, at approximately 1:40 p.m., SOS a. while assigned to the Special Housing Unit, proceeded to enter the 9 South visiting room. As I walked towards the door, I observed through the visiting door inmate Fernandez attempt to grab an unknown item from his visitor. Once inmate Fernandez reached to grab the item, I (Indiscernible *01:50:55) the door and called for a lieutenant. Once I was able to enter the visiting room, I gave inmate Fernandez a direct order to walk to the visiting room to conduct a visual search. Inmate Fernandez complied and a visual search was conducted. Operations Lieutenant was contacted and inmate Fernandez was removed from the unit.” EFTA00114630

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 157 1 So, should have this been listed as 3:15 2 p-m., or should it have been listed as 1:40 3 p-m.? Do you know? 4 ee: No, the 3:40 p.m. would be the time that he was placed on dry cell. 7 a: Would not necessarily be the w 8 time of the incident. 9 MR this, 10 where he 11 ee: This is the time, this is 2 the time of the incident. 3 MR. a : -- but not the time, 4 okay. This is the time of the incident, dry 5 cell would have been a different thing. All 16 right. Do you remember, I mean, do you 7 remember at all that incident on that day? 8 a: I don’t recall. It happened 9 so often, so. 20 MR. QJ: Sure. Now, would 22 p.m. 23 inside the institution? 24 a: Yeah. It would have been 25 from the computer. Email. EFTA00114631

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 2 listed on anywhere. He’s listed as leaving at uw o ies) 7:50 p.m. Is it, we’re able to tell where That’s odd. That is very wi ‘ 7 MR. a : And it all makes 8 that he was there at 6:07, because all these 9 inmates’ emails are going back, you know, use p.m., from the oo 3 10 thi ne. That was at 4:3 o is) 11 captain to you. And from the PA was the one at 3:11 p.m. was FY here at 6:07 p.m.? 4 Ee: That’s very odd. I don’t recall. I don’t remember. So, I’m trying to figure out, why nN wd ive) t oO a No? 7 MEN. don’t recall. But that would have had Lee) 5 9 to have been sent from in here? Especially 20 from an officer, right? 21 ee: That’s, yeah. An officer 22 doesn’t have the outside email access I 23 didn’t, as a lieutenant 24 MR. a : Right. So he was 25 definitely p.m.? EFTA00114632

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE 159 a: If that came through at that time, that’s on the government computer. MR. a : Okay. Do you mind just initialing and dating that? Sorry. HE: «No problem. MR. a : All right. Now, here’s the inmate Just to, so, again, close that loop. So, it shows Fernandez, here are his inmate history quarters. And it shows was brought to the SHU, Z, and then it shows on ), right next to it. MR. Ee : Yeah, I’m just, just give when he was moved that stand for? keyed out of the correspond to that, 12:35 a.m. EFTA00114633

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE out, Yea and they, counted him. just All sir. right. these, just while here number 6 the Okay. Now, what does h, so initialing and dating that? 1 the 160 he was probably never mebody probably ghost- do you mind So, Thank ing to go into ieutenant sheets are right. §& and see what the looks EFTA00114634

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 161 1 MR. Ee : All right. So, on the 2 daily, on the daily lieutenant’s log, it shows 3 77/5, and on the E-1, it shows 77 for || and 5 4 for ZB. And we go, we look at the 5 corresponding count slip for ZB. 5. 6 orrect 7 ah. 8 All right. Mind just wo initialing and dating that? Is that the 5A one? Thank you, sir. Okay. So, now this is where i=) a h. All right. fw nN little bit into the weeds WwW 0 u ct fu kK ct .Q 0 rr ‘t Hi 3 .Q ny 4 here. So, this is the 4 p.m. count, correct, 5 on 9, t oO Uh-huh. 7 MR. QJ: 11 right. So, the E-1 8 ry 20 because one is -- Right here, one is from attorney No Nm a i) KK 0) tb Oo Oo ny No Ww 0 ie) 5 Kh 0) a] ) 5 Q 0) right here? orney conference, so EFTA00114635

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LIMITED ies) w fos) wo ive) co OFFICIAL you 2) n Ph USE 162 had one out count and two attorney erence. MR. a : So, Epstein is in attorney conference. We got one there. So, number on the lieutenant’s log have s side the SHU should be 75, correct? MR. QJ: 411 right. count, (Indiscernible *01:56:10) count in shows there s a: The E-1 is showing that he in attorney conference. MR. ae : Right. So, should this 75 or on i based upon this? Should it have ifs) aid this, 76 number or should it -- ae: It’s whatever this is. MR. ae : So, this should have said MR. a : All right. Now let’s EFTA00114636

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 163 oO io ioe) oO ao look at the Oo MR. a : All right. Do you mind initialing and dating? arted of c-ion on that. Bh mR m (D ie) in mind, you s MR. a: (Indiscernible was removed. MR. a : We’1ll get into that. rt the day at I just want to to this, cause we can go back EFTA00114637

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 164 1 p.m. count So, this J says 73 5 2 3 Yes 4 MR. a : All right. So, the 10 ount, good verbal announ What does Ww ue] 3 79° 72, so the daily oo 5 9 72 here, but this says 10 73 you know why ive) that would be? 4 Ee: I don’t know. There might 5 have been somebc math was 16 as the lieutenants. As long 7 and this jives with the officer’ co 22 23 24 an arithmetic mistake. EFTA00114638

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 165 1 believe, though, this would have said 2 this over here says 73, on the next day? ies) H mean, it should. If there 4 was no movement. 6 a: Between the evening and the morning watch. w watch Les] i os) iB ] 7 rt . 3 Q = ii) be be Q fe) wo i=) with ive) t a Fh wu QO rt ct r ow + ct I ts) w wu kK or) i) 5 b- ct Les] 5 = ie) G k jon rt =) y rt 3 cu) vy 3 rt fe uv rt on om 22 23 MR. a : So, even though, when we 24 go back before you said that, I think you said 25 that Control 1 would have been doing the ke EFTA00114639

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LIMITED O 1 Oo Oo oo 95 pronounce that? but looking at the actual E-1l, it looks like i. the count? Yeah. Well, at 10:00, though, is coming in or out, except basically whoever is on 2 to 10. Ee : Yeah, cause | goes home at is Who was the on the 4 p.m.? So, ; is the one who did the 166 EFTA00114640

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LIMITED ies) w fos) ive) oO oo OFFICIAL USE n corresponding count slips. corr o gone by this count, All gone now. So here’s R&D. the, where would it have of WM. i this should have been column. no, saying there was Uh-huh. But Would it somewhere we got a count slip fo anybody in there. You would have been right. ire We get l. Wherever he was keyed out this It should have been over here in right. we got yr R&D 1. counted him from 9 EFTA00114641

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 168 ioe) w io ioe) No e ° wo i) b ho that mean that that actually should be 74, if they’re saying plus don’t did the math. MR. a : All right. What about honestly, in 21 t my o) } i t a oO al bh ini un rt rt Pb: 3 o H 3 w it) o bh 5 Q fu ie] pe = if] bh Oo ] w count slip. seen a plus 1 before? EFTA00114642

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 169 w ~] ive) MR. Ee : What about, have you ever seen anything where every single count slip is cros w ed off, aside from these two? ee: Yes. I don’t know about these two. I know as, when you’re taking the count -- MR. a : Yep. a : -- I normally, that’s how we get the clear count. MR. a : Sure. ee: When we do the good verbal by, what we do is, we make one line. When the unit officers call -- MR. QM: On the E-1, right? a: -- we make the one line on the E-1l. Once I get all the paper, cause what we'll do is, like, once I have a good verbal, I do the one line and I see every unit has got a good verbal. That’s when I tell Control, we got a good verbal count at whatever time. And then we say, awaiting paper. And once internal brings down all the count slips, whoever that person is that’s taking the count will have those count slips in front. Not everybody does it. I doit. I would, I’m aocrosser. And EFTA00114643

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 170 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) what I do is I verify everything and that’s when I make my X on the E-1l. MR. a : Does this suggest anything to you, though, the fact that every one of these count slips is crossed off, aside from R&D, where there is no one actually on the E-1 -- HE: 8d SHU. MR. a : -- and then SHU, which has the 73 plus 1, on the E-l, it says 73. On daily log, it says 72. Any, does that indicate anything to you, the fact that those aren’t crossed out? a: The only thing that jumps out at me is that it might have been somebody else that did these two count slips versus these. MR. Ee : Like someone who was taking the count, like Je would QR would have been the person that, like, crossed Ee : I don’t recall if he was a crosser or not. MR. a : But who, if it wasn’t I. EFTA00114644

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LIMITED oO io ioe) oO oo wo OFFICIAL USE 171 |g who would it have b : At that point in time, it was only him in Control. MR. a : All right. And it was -- WS: «tf the lieutenant was in n? mo until taken O = oO Cc om w @ And then she worked until 6 in the morning. start at midnight. EFTA00114645

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LIMITED OFFICIAL 172 1 may I? 2 MR. a : Yeah. Absolutely. Are Oo taking the count. 12 MR. a : All right. And then, this can you tell from this E-1 on b o ive) ct a B i) i) oO EFTA00114646

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 173 that. HMMM cid the 10 p.m., the ones that have the Ww count slips with the 9 South plus 1, and the plus 1. [RRRRRRJ did the 12 a.m. MR. a : And the 12 a.m. count is from the E-1 at 10 p.m., 2, and now let’s go to the corres i. what’s the number on tl! you think of why that I said, the only thing that comes to mind is a ghost count. MR. ae : Okay. Then the RA still says 1, though. ost count someone if re putting in slips for 1? then there would EFTA00114647

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE work That’s MR. wasn’t. Fro yo Ion wron count slip. he wav the way Now it’s wo m what I under out u call that unit count eed a new g. That I have All right. count aren’t corresponding with what’s -- officer EFTA00114648

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LIMITED ies) w oO co ive) co wo OFFICIAL USE No. corresponding count for i do say 72, and ie) We that anybody on here did Uh- me thing with do one count on a shift. Sure. And is there any anything, his -- That’s y.- Andt huh. And again, the now. The count slips EFTA00114649

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 176 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 take this out of the picture and let’s directly focus on the E-1 and the count slips here. The fact that at the 10 p.m. count, they’re listed 73. The count slip says 73 plus 1. And then the 12 a.m. says 72. Count slip says 73. And then on the daily lieutenant’s log, the guy, Fernandez, is keyed out at 035 hours, because he was keyed into the SHU the whole time. EE: | h-huh. MR. a : And then everything is, from that point forward, is corrected to 72. So he was never present in the SHU. We have got the 10 p.m. and the 12 a.m. counts, we both have count slips for, saying that he’s there in RA, and somehow, their numbers, there is only 72 people in the SHU. So the count slips are showing 73 people. There’s only 72 people in there. The E-1 at 10 p.m. says 73, even though 7 there’s only : o. MR. a : The E-1 at midnight does show 72, but that’s only because at 12:35 -- ee : It was corrected. MR. a : It was corrected. And the count slip says 73, although there were 2 people in there. EFTA00114650

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 177 1 only 72 people in there. Does that indicate to 2 you that the people in the SHU were just 3 basically going off of what the E-1 should have 4 said, versus counting it themselves? wi H ct it] ue} Oo 77) if] b io } oO I mean, I 6 know that they are charged with falsifying 7 documents. 8 MR. QR: Yep. 9 ee: I know they say that they 10 did not conduct a count, so I guess so. I 11 guess that’s what they, I don’t know. 2 MR. a : How would have they 3 gotten the number 73? So, 73 is what is on the 4 E-1. 15 EE: bho. 16 MR. Ee : There is only 72 people 7 in the SHU. But they’re listing 73 on the 8 count slip. 9 a: It could have been easily, 20 in my opinion, it could have been easily as 21 they were going off of the SHU locator, and the 22 locator wasn’t corrected 23 MR. a : What’s the SHU locator? 24 ee: It’s basically a chart with 25 the cell assignments and the inmates names and EFTA00114651

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 178 ies) a So, it’s like a document? 4 ee: It’s not, like, an official 5 BOP thing. It’s something that was brought, 6 it’s like made in Word. It’s basically like, 7 almost like a blueprint. But it’s of, it will 8 have the cells, and it will state what names, 9 like, the SHU staff t oO ct h al hey’r oO doing the 11 off who got their Ww N 5 only the SHU staff has? t oO That’s only, that’s Lee) 5 Does the E-1l people, does 9 Control have access to that? 20 HS: Not everybody has 3) 1s) 22 MR. ae : So, the thing, though, 23 that, if they’re using this thing that you 24 just, what did you call it again? 25 ee : The locator. EFTA00114652

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 17 Oo MR. Ee : So, if they’re, the SHU f is using a locator, does the people in Ph sta Control have access to that locator in the SHU could have had access to, what are the people in MR. QJ: 411 right. ody has full MR. QJ: 411 right. 9.m. count, do you know if, so who, on the | count slip, it says Fs and Noel, going to Yeah, Noel, all right. I don’t know what I’m re looking at. I’m sorry. I don’t have my MR. a : Do you know if either of EFTA00114653

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 180 1 dat fu ies) t 4 MR. a : You don’t know? « 7 vices would have 8 a 9 All right. Fair enot 1 ything about 12 14 said, I only know 15 what I and what I hear. ay. And what have you 18 ee: The same thing charged with #taging t ie) 20 (Indiscernible *02:10:43). I heard that they count and -- 24 conc EFTA00114654

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 181 Ww 3 p. Q 5 bp. Q Ss ct Ww ae wu 3 Q wm v wi aw But you hadn’t heard 6 about the 4 or 10? 7 HS: «= swas told that at 10:00, 8 not that I was told, from what I heard, at 9 10:00, he was alive. i=) MR. a : Okay. Again, thou 11 going back to this lieutenant -- a: Do you want me to sign this? Yeah. I’m going nN ive) Fs) 4 you do that now. Going back to these 5 lieutenant logs, do you know why, how that 16 could be off, too, though, if the E-1 and the 7 count slips are all saying 73 at 10 p.m., why 8 would they be writing 72 here? 9 a: Honestly, I don’t know. 20 Like I said, some people are better in math 21 than others. It could be just a simple 22 arithmetic mistake 24 being that it came over as 73, Po 25 is the one that corrected Fernandez being out, EFTA00114655

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 182 and then she doesn’t send the activities report daily log out until 9:30 a.m. Do you think that she would have gone back in there and maybe she just -- ae: I don’t know. I don’t know. MR. a : Would have she been authorized to do that? a : No. I don’t know. I can’t that question. I have, I’m not -- MR. a : But you had mentioned that people can go in and (Indiscernible ee : It can be done. You can back and do it. MR. a : Now, should she have? a : No. Not that I know, unles aw that, unless she was trying to make the tt) she 3) correction, to make sure that everything was right with the count. MR. Ee : And that’s what I mean. ee: Which we, you know, we all try to look, you know, to better, at the end of the day, r oO member, accountability is the most n important thing. MR. a : Yeah, yeah. EFTA00114656

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2 sure that it’s there, and i 3 cover up or anything like t 4 point in time, nothing was 5 not covering up anything. 6 time, once that happened in ~] wouldn’t have been able to 8 cause the FBI was already h 9 everything. 10 MR. SJ: 39 well, 11 that at 9:30, well, this is 2 done electronically, right? 3 electronically? 4 Ee: You get, 15 yes 16 MR. QJ: | Right 7 understanding that this is 8 like, a Word document, that 9 folder? 20 Hs: «t's in 21 It’s in, but only lieutenan 22 that 23 MR. QM: Right 24 HN: nc the So, i 183 ould try to make t's not to, like, n i) fw rt ct io Pp 03) hat, cau wrong. And at that point in the morning, she do this anyway, ere, taking if someone says all, this is all She sent this out have to email that, - And is it my actually created in, ts have access to captain. f someone is in that EFTA00114657

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LIMITED No No No ies) w co ive) co wo ion) OFFICIAL USE 184 shared folder, and they can tell, someone is modifying that thing right now, and it fa w ct i) ee: Oh, well, that’s the thing. But if there is, only one person can be in Right. So, if the captain notices that someone is in there, modifying that log -- that would bring, captain would be, MR. ae : But, okay. But if you were De. and you were the one modifying this thing, and you are going back and basi ically, you know, changing this stuff, 7] EFTA00114658

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 185 1 do you think that would be acceptable? Or just left 2 should have she left it as it was and ies) her one saying 73, I corrected it, brought it 4 back to 72 and left the day before, the August w wo i=) nN ive) Fs) All right. And do you 4 believe there would be something wrong with her 5 doing that, though? Going back to August 9° 16 and changing things? 7 Ee : No. Because it was past Les] ue) RR uN] Q ct k aQ 0) wo a3 —_ wu he 20 You know, it’s ing 21 that s done that, you know, from 22 the \ irs time. I personally don’t like 23 correcting other people. 24 MR. QJ: 411 xight. 25 MR. ae: But you mentioned it would EFTA00114659

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LIMITED OFFICIAL US 186 10 11 12 18 19 20 have been that, if you piggyback off each other. ee: Yeah. MR. a : Something came up. She (Indiscernible *02:14:29). a: Like I said, like, for instance, I go home at 10, right? She is relieving me at 10, but there is still going to be a good verbal and a clear count after I’m gone. MR. a : And that’s true. a: But then she would have to MR. ae : She’s actually starting on August 9°. a : She would have to be going back into mine in order to put the, clear the count, because she can’t put 10:30 good verbal and 10:45 clear count on her log, cause it’s after midnight. Does that make sense? So, she will go, like, things like that, you piggyback. Just like if, like, we end up, we do the two hour relief thing, you know, you got to, you piggyback, but otherwise, I don’t go back to, like, correct another person. That’s me, EFTA00114660

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE personally. But she did start on August 9**, and what you’re saying is you don’t find it problematic that she did correct something? You wrong with it? personally. with MR. nothing wrong . ae: anymore, No. don’t think You just wouldn’t But I what there’s anything wouldn’t have done it Right. don’t think there’s she did. Did you want to talk about the lieutenant logs? We covered it. All right. Okay. don’t know if there is a certain order I’m supposed to -- I kept them in order. the cou signing eve would All that, so, have got. right. Thank yo You're No, yeah, I just keep it, They’re all in order of u for initialing and And we had to go past be, thank you, sir. welcome. This is the last thing we So, we have only got two EFTA00114661

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 18 co 1 more documents or something. So, these are 2 the, what are these? ies) These are the round sheets. So, is this L tier? 5 6 4 8 MR. a : All right. And did you 9 that these were not 10 conducted? 11 ee: Well, like, for ir case in point, I don’t know who this is, but nN ive) wouldn’t have, when I made rounds, unless he 4 made rounds around this time, or prior to this 5 time, these were nev finished. 7 if you didn’t go do the round, who, do you 8 believe, would have gone in and actually signed 9 off on that? 20 HS: t= would be the either/or. 21 I don’t recognize -- MR. QJ: | Does that look like -- I know this is me. 25 did a round in there? No Nm No ion) you actually EFTA00114662

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LIMITED ies) w co ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE wait a minute, the round. I don’t know why I did the rounds some is this me? a) i P- o thought you did SHU. I’m, I don’t know signature is here. though? didn’t make on It looks like my MC. rounds in SHU. I know that. the watch rounds. didn’t make off Shoot. didn’t p list for the lieutenants, signature on t And would have you SHU to do that? I would have had have, and I up there night. that MR. how idea have gotten on there, if you didn’t, you weren’t in there? bR oo io where, ound in why I rint here? That looks like my MC. had to to that would EFTA00114663

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 190 1 MR. Ee : Do you know if anyone 2 asked you after the fact to sign off on 3 something? 4 ee: Not necessarily. No. But I 5 know I didn’t make rounds up there, but that 6 looks like my MC. And this is the first I’m 7 seeing this. 8 MR. a : Yeah. It does look 9 exactly like what you have been doing. 10 didn’t even notice that before. So, this is 11 your signature on the 8/9/2019 -- 2 a: h-hun. 3 MR. a : -- 30 minute check sheet, 4 but you did not visit the SHU on August 9°"? 15 a: No. I did not make rounds. 16 My Activities Lieutenant made rounds that 7 night. 8 MR. a : Would it have anything to 9 do with the fact that she was an Acting 20 Activities Lieutenant? 21 a: I mean, no, because I don’t 22 remember, I don’t recall signing the round 23 sheet for that shift. 24 MR. a : Cause it looks like all 25 of, it looks like all of them are you, right? EFTA00114664

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 191 w ~] a: Well, some, one thing right here, too, it’s not signed off on here, either. MR. a : So the bottom aren’t signed off on. Well, who -- ae: The morning watch went, upon | coming in, oh, you know what? I’m not, I don’t remember doing it, but the only thing I could think of is when it gets picked up, but the thing is, this don’t get picked up, it don’t get sent down until morning watch. So, I don’t, I don’t remember, I really don’t remember signing that. But I really don’t remember signing that, and it looks like the morning watch lieutenant didn’t sign, either. Cause then if you look at this, I wouldn’t have signed, if I saw rounds not done. Remember, I said that earlier. MR. a : So does this at all look like it could have been, like, cut and paste or why, why would that be modified? a: I don’t know. MR. ae : Do you have any reason to believe that that is not your signature? ee: I don’t recall signing it, but that looks like my MC. I always initial. EFTA00114665

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) I don’t ever fully sign. I always do the MC, as you can see, I do the MC in the circle. Yeah. Yeah, I don’t, I don’t know. I don’t recall. I don’t recall signing it, but that is my signature. I didn’t make rounds. The only thing I could, I could assume is maybe FY asked me to sign because she made the round, but she is not an actual lieutenant. But I don’t recall. MR. a : But would have she had, like, literally have been allowed to bring, take the -- a : No. No. That’s the thing. They can’t leave the unit until morning watch. This gets sent down for the morning watch. MR. QJ: 411 right. ee: Like, when | came in for Saturday morning watch -- MR. QJ: | uh-huh. HN: «Ss -— «this, after midnight, between 11:30 and 12 is the last round for the evening shift. Then this gets sent out. That’s why I’m looking at this, look, it’s on this one. It’s on this one, but where is it here? It’s not here. It’s not here. So, 192 EFTA00114666

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE 193 what, was one tier, two tiers done and not the tiers up there. And they’re all for Bh So, we got some kind of discrepancy going on with these. a: I don’t remember signing (Indiscernible *02:21:12). MR. a : And you would, you would have signed it before 10 p.m.? the SHU, like, to or whatever have you, or like, to lock somebody remember if I did or not, don’t remember. MR. Ee : Do you believe that you didn’t? EFTA00114667

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 194 that night. MR. a : So, what, I guess what I’m asking is, what is this? So, this one go through the SHU to get to 10 South. MR. a : Who is that pe a : I’m not sure. I don’t know. It could be a . something else. /2019 count sheet? MR. QJ: Right. Right. very well -- I’m asking do we now have to into, oh, crap, this stuff might have been, copied and pasted and put onto something else? I don’t know. Well, I just don’t, I do not, I can tell I don’t remember signing it. EFTA00114668

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) nN ive) oO co 23 OFFICIAL USE 195 you I do not remember signing it, but I do remember, I did not make rounds in don’t remember signing it. I don’t. All right. ut that is, I can’t, that’s All right. your signature is on you don’t recall signing it, and you did t do rounds? a : I did not make the round in round in SHU, signed it? MR. ae : So, you signed it, saying that you did a round, but you didn’t actually do a round? ee : I didn’t make the rounds in I have signature? Possibly. I know But I don’t remember signing it. EFTA00114669

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 196 w ~] I didn’t make rounds that night. MR. a : Right. So, your signature is on there, saying you did a round, but you did not do rounds? ae: Huh-uh. But I didn’t, I wasn’t there. I didn’t make the round in SHU. MR. a: Why do you clearly remember that you didn’t go in the SHU that night? ee: I’m sorry? MR. a: Why do you remember that you never went -- a: Because I was trying to hire overtime for the morning watch shift most of the night. At that point in time, with how short we were lieutenants, and how short we were staffed, an Operations Lieutenant would spend at least four hours a shift, trying to just fill the overtime. And I remember, cause I even, I think, if I recall correctly, I remember, I even mandated Noel to work in SHU that night, for the overnight. MR. a: So you think you spent most of the time in the office, trying to -- ee: Yes. I was doing the roster, trying to fill the roster when ft EFTA00114670

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LIMITED oO io ioe) oO oo wo OFFICIAL USE said, have block ame on all of them, like, this one, would have been t | would have rt hat this EFTA00114671

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 1 | would have done that? 2 Ee : No. I don’t believe | would have done that at all. a : So you do believe that jour signature? 6 a: I believe it’s my signature, but I just don’t remember signing that. I wo oo ies) wi ct a p-. 1) t oO a And you don’t remember i=) even going to the SHU. 11 ee: I didn’t make rounds that i) 0] o oa Pp. 5 Q 5 oO ive) Fs) And you don’t remember 4 actually even going into the SHU that -- 5 a: Not that I recall. No. So that’s (Indiscernible t oO a 7 *02:25:05) like how could have your signature on there? 9 a: You would have to, you would have to, you would have to review the cameras, oo .Q 0 o. 21 but I don’t recall signing this paper. 22 know I didn’t make rounds, because even when I 23 went in with you guys in the FBI and the AUSA, 24 she even told me | name before I even 25 said it. I said, my Activities Lieutenant made EFTA00114672

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 199 1 rounds that night in SHU, and she said, that’s 2 Acting Lieutenant, Jj. i i. = WwW U fu b jen het fe) oc wu Rk © c 4 recall, I recall uw wy Co fw aa i wW > be 0) o a Ph O ie] & wm 3 ) | | @ ra ' ! ct ° bp n + if) fn Oo 3 @ et ag ps a ct fe wu rt F N i) O =] oO a e) = iad 1) nv Oo Pp i) rt a fu rt t Ww Cc ian | a c s 14 MR. ae : Do you have any, any kind 15 of explanation to how that c ald have happened You didn’t do rounds in SHU. Youn er SHU, and you could only sign within the S 20 MR. Ee : And this is the documents 21 that were obtained. c Les] cr J Bp i) a is) a & =} o 3 rt hh 8 Oo 3 ie) No N 2 fe) + x 0 12) ce Bp Q Q ti) rt i) im u 3 i] a I 3 N WwW ct J oO b ' iu) c r 1] a] my 5 rt n 12] Ph rh t Q om wu rh ct oO tt bh rt & a Oo aa bb 0) a ct M Lor 25 have been collected -- EFTA00114673

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 200 1 ee 1h] very night, this gets, the sent down to the 2 4 So, think -- 5 ae: That might have been when I 6 signed it, but this would have, I wasn’t here on morning watch. oo 5 What about on August 10°, 9 when you did come back from the hospital? You 10 came back, right, on August 10‘? 1 ee: Yeah. I was here the whole 2 day. I didn’t go home. I don’t remember ive) exactly, but I know it was, like, around 4:00 ish, when I got home, when I left. these things look like they were t fea) [ Oo Oo bh b- ~ o taken right away, you know? Uh-huh. 9 MR. QJ: sfter Noel -- 20 ee : That mic co 22 That you signed it the 23 24 I might have signed it when 25 it was sitting on e lieutenant’s office pile. EFTA00114674

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE 201 v wu bh iQ ct 7 wu ct a rt a if ie 5 fal Bb oa ite} 5 3 i) 5 2) 5 he ct > fw rt ue) o fe) ue] p oO the Ops Lieutenant, you didn’t here? ee: This was, this should be MR. a : So that’s day watch? That wouldn’t right there. MR. Ee : So, you said this one on page, the third page should have been am, I signed that that signed that one? a: It could have been 7 -- MR. Ee : Count time, 4 p.m MR. ae : But then you say you EFTA00114675

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 202 And you did the count? ld have ioe) 4 MR. a : Who did the 6 MR. a : Okay. And you didn’t participate in the 4 p.m.? w the count. c rr ou participate 12 13 15 is the 4, 17 I been 18 igned it, cause I t c n rm a 0 © Q this one right here. I signed that, I ine) tan 3 12) = b signed that out count. ho rar that ho 2 doesn’t have a signature? What is that for? 23 Ee : This one right here? That’s 24 and there was one cadre 25 from 11 South out. EFTA00114676

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LIMITED ioe) w io ioe) 19 20 No Wa OFFICIAL USE 203 So that one t have a signature, but the fourth page and that’s your signature, ee: That’s HN: 8ything else on that needed to have signatures by you a : Yeah. I don’t know who, I don’t know who signed that one right there. MR. QM: that’s MR. a : Oh, cause she was still in attorney conference for the 4 p.m. attorney conference approved by, you c that out. I can’t. I don’t know who suppos is not EFTA00114677

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LIMITED No No No ies) w co ive) co ion) OFFICIAL USE 204 looking at this daily roster, can you deduce it could have been? |i It’s MR. a : You can have 4 p.m., if a : Oh, no, no, cause he’s a: Yeah. She would the out count to the Operations Lieutenant. MR. ae : All right. So we have to ask | who signed this? a: Yeah. Cause I who that is. I don’t know whose signature that MR. ae : And none of these people on here that are working that day look like that would EFTA00114678

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LIMITED ies) w co io ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 205 There are only two an acting re in that y, but she was still attorney conferen All right. I don’t know whose signature that is. MR. ae : And then this -- Hh 12) Ki ct a om ie] Fh Hh bh e] B wu i oO c rt QO 2) c 3 ct Me un ct 7 Be U = oO # + jon rt 12) yo u at all, this, the fact that somebody else’s I don’t know who the cause I know I didn’t sign it. And I know, this was probably just a slip of the, I forgot to sign it, the other one. Uh-huh. EFTA00114679

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 206 J 2 MR. a : So the one, so one is supposed to have signed was Ww ct 7 8) ¢ 3 & 0 © Ww } b = oO het i) c Hh Oo K Q oO ct 7 MR. a : So, it would have been J. fos) wo 3 fu hb b un 9 Smalls was the one that 0 was the R&D, coming from R&D 2 MR. ae : So who would have provided this to you, to sign it? ive) would have But in this case, it oO yen that to you to sign? oo 5 9 sounds like she didn’t? 20 Ee: No. I don’t know. I don’t 21 remember if she didn’t (Indiscernible 22 *02:31:02) give it to me right off the bat, or 23 if I just forgot to sign it. It could be, I EFTA00114680

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 207 w ~] a: But I don’t know who that is on that other one. I don’t even, it looks like, it just looks like a squiggly line. MR. a : So, on the 4 p.m. count, after the E-1, so there’s, on the third page, you forgot to sign. On the fifth page, fourth page, you did sign. Seventh page, shows the official count from R. a. That is not your signature. All right. And then the last one is you as well. ee: I signed. Uh-huh. MR. a : Which is the official out count from the hospital. So, the attorney conference room, you got to figure out whose signature that is. And no one would have been authorized, as you know -- ee: A lieutenant is supposed to sign the out count. MR. Ee : But it could have been a lieutenant? But there are, as far as you know, there is no other lieutenants that were actually even in the building at that time? Ee : Unless this was done before, an out count has to be in 45 minutes prior to the count. So that means it would have had to EFTA00114681

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE N ° o be done no later than 3:15. Unless that was || went home, I don’t know. MR. a : But it doesn’t even look like it would be a a. HS: doesn’t. MR. a : Carlos? Oh, that could done befor i) a : I don’t know, it just, it is) ie] rt MR. a : Yeah, no, I know it’ yours. That’s what I’m just trying to figure out who it is. I don’t know. MR. ae : No, there’s no question. Do you remember that day, 5 though, you’re positive came in at 2? ee : I don’t even know why it says non-custody here. MR. ae : Somebody indicated that someone manipulated that, and that it EFTA00114682

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LIMITED ies) w co ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE N o its) MR. Ee : So, somebody, somebody has told us, doesn’t make any sense that there’s an NC there. Do you agree with that? there. It I agree 100% printed out on June 2, 2021, would that auto -- counselor already. MR. a : -- would that populate to non-custody automatically? That’s because I was a MR. Ee : So, when we printed out, that date, these things generated with your name, NC. Uh-huh. Yes. MR. a : So would that be why then (Indiscernible *02:33:27). EFTA00114683

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 210 1 didn’t see that this was printed this year. 2 MR. a : Okay. All right. So, it 3 would be printed, based upon what you are at 4 the time, but you were custody at the time? 5 ae: I was a lieutenant at the 6 time. Yeah. 7 MR. a : All right. So, okay. So 8 we can’t put any real credence to NCs when we 9 see the, based upon the print (Indiscernible 10 *02:33:48). 11 ee: No, after, like, I became a 2 counselor, February 2020. 3 MR. a : Okay. 4 Ee: So I have only been non- 15 then 16 MR. QJ: «411 right. And then this 7 one was just an email, saying that I was, this 8 is just confirming that, it’s just an email 9 that you sent to someone, Cynthia Adorno? 21 MR. QJ: | 8--0--N-0, just saying 22 that you were Activities, and had to go to the 23 hospital to make sure staff weren’t bothered by 24 media, while his body was there. “Today, I am 25 DW Ops.” EFTA00114684

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 211 That was just in case you had any kind of need for recollection that you actually worked those days. Here you go. So, here i if) something, just saying that, so, in his first suicide attempt, correct, do you remember who his cellmate was at the time? forgot his name. s th wu t cop guy. I wu : Tartaglione. a: Tartaglione. MR. a : So, there’s an email dated August 7, 2019, to all the lieutenants, saying that Tartaglione was going to be in attorney confer oO nce on Friday, August 2, 2009. Now, (Indiscernible *02:35:03) Epstein was in there at the same time. Do you know if th would h had any interaction in there? Together? Ee : No. They were in separate MR. a : So they would not have EFTA00114685

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co its) No N No Wa OFFICIAL USE 212 when they were WS: «tf they were coming in or out at the same time, but otherwise, they’re in MR. a : So they’re not even attorney conference cells for the SHU inmates just initialing and dating that? MR. ae : Did you have any involvement with that initial July 23, 2019? : No. x ae) w EFTA00114686

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LIMITED ioe) w io its) OFFICIAL USE 213 t Tartaglione attempting to harm Epstein? : No. I heard that he was helping him. He is the one that notified the staff that he needed help I heard. MR. a : So, you didn’t hear know how And I’m not I’m talking how much shit, Ee : -- I know we’re on camera -- Yeah, a: -- on tape here, do much trash pardon my langué Yeah. yeah. pid trash to EFTA00114687

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 214 uw ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 me. I was, like, don’t, don’t even go there. MR. a : Do you think there’s any validity to any kind of a claim, saying that Tartaglione attempted to harm Epstein? ae: I don’t know. I’m not in the cell with them. MR. a : Okay. But from any information that you have received, do you have any reason to believe? ee: No. I know, from what I know of Tartaglione, he’s trying to beat his case. He’s trying to fight his case. So I don’t think he would want to add any undue thing to his case. MR. a : Okay. Okay, so I’m just going to, so this was after the fact, on Friday, August 16, 2019, the captain, fe i. a. sent a message to a number of people, it looks like all the lieutenants, to include yourself. It just says, “Lieutenants, there has been a significant change concerning the placement of inmates on suicide watch at MCC. Starting 8/16/19, when an inmate expresses intentions to physically harm themself or behavior warrants placement on EFTA00114688

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 215 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 watch, please make sure the captain is notified immediately by phone. If inmate companions are needed to sit on the inmate, the overall approving authority is the warden. Inmates will no longer be able to remain on SHU bed space, so there should be an initiative to have adequate bed assignments available in the Special Housing Unit.” So, were people that were attempting to harm themselves previously not being referred to suicide watch, are you aware? a: No. As a matter of fact, if I, I, at one point in time, if I felt like a new intake, if I was, let’s say, Operations Lieutenant on an off-shift, and we didn’t have Psychology here, if I felt they were a threat to themselves, I would put them on watch, and then all I would have to do is notify Psychology. MR. a : Okay. a: Like, I would wake up the on-duty psychologist at home and say, hey, doc, I’m putting inmate Schmukatelli on observation. MR. a : All right. So, the only change here was that the captain wanted to be EFTA00114689

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LIMITED ioe) w io ioe) its) OFFICIAL USE 21 a : Yes. I believe so. MR. a : All right. And he wasn’t notified prior to that time, is that what he’s a: He wasn’t, he didn’t have to ee: As long as we notified Sure. Ss ge in practice. in notification to the captain? MR. a : For the 9°° and 10°, I you awhile. Just know we have been keeping want to finish up quest ee : (Indiscernible *02:38:42). EFTA00114690

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 217 1 MR. Ee : So what is your 2 understanding of what happened to Epstein on 3 August 9*° and 10%, 2019? 4 ee: My understanding is that he 5 committed suicide. That he hung up. 6 MR. a : Is that, you understand 7 of how he died was from suicide and hanging? 8 a : That’s what I understand. 9 Yes 10 MR. a : Okay. Do you ve any 11 information with regard to any suspicious 2 activity that occurred on August 9°" or 10°, 3 2019, leading up to the discovery of Epstein in 4 his cell? c Oo) z w H 3 u fo t going to go over u 7 and just ask 8 you if you have any information on it. So, we 9 just talked about his first suicide attempt on 20 July 23, 2019. Are you aware if Epstein was 21 placed on suicide watch after that? 22 a : I’m not sure. I’m not 100% 23 sure. I think he was placed on observation 24 after that incident. EFTA00114691

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 218 w ~] ive) a: If I’m not mistaken. MR. a : And is observation, suicide watch, are they basically the same thing, just a matter of, if you give your clothes or not? a: It’s a matter of the clothing. Observation, they were allowed to have their regular attire on, with an inmate companion. Suicide watch, they were in the smock and had the, like, the sleeping bag, the suicide sleeping bag. MR. a : And that is outside of the SHU, correct? Ee: That is outside of the SHU. MR. a : What floor is that? a : In the event, in the event that suicide watch on second floor was overbooked, overfilled, we would do suicide watch in SHU, but it would be a staff member watching. understanding, though, that Epstein was removed - And is it your het from the SHU and placed on either suicide watch or psychological observation after the initial incident on July 23**? EFTA00114692

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 219 1 a: I’ve seen him down on 2 suicide watch and observation on the second ies) floor. 4 MR. a : So, you actually did see him there? 6 a: Yes. That’s where I fed him. Cause lieutenants have to w wo 10 feed the inmates. 11 MR. Ee : Oh, so that ation of 2 feeding on this was actually regarding the 3 — 4 Ee: It was probably, it might 5 have, it may have been in the SHU, if he was a 16 lieutenant hold at the time. But when he was 7 on observation, I have fed him down there. 8 MR. a : Okay. you had 9 interaction with him when he was actually on -- 20 ee : Yeah, basically as far 21 as opening the slot, handing him his food collecting his trash, locking the slot, 23 you okay? You okay? Okay. And, can I talk to ho the Psychology Department? Go get the psyche. No w J > f t i bh t EFTA00114693

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LIMITED ies) w fos) Ww oo OFFICIAL USE 220 MR. Ee : Anything that he said to Ee 5 that was cause for concern? het 1s) c can a: No. That was it. Do you believe ed from remo or suicide wat n, the Ph.D. Was appropriate. you heard any rumor about the judge calling the warden and asking him removed so he could continue with his attorn or inside or otherwise? EFTA00114694

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 221 1 MR. Ee : Okay. We already talked 2 about Reyes being removed. Although you ies) received that email the day before, that wasn’t 4 something that you reviewed, so you didn’t know w that Reyes was actually being removed from the 6 institution or transferred, correct? 8 Correct. oO AJ And no one told you? 11 MR. Ee : Aside from that email? Aside from the email. ive) Np Okay. And that, again, 4 is that, oh, you already answered it. Do you 5 know anything about other falsified counts 16 being conducted in the MCC prior to August 10, ie] — 12) wo a3 Do you believe that counts were being conducted in the MCC, prior 21 to August 9° and 10°, 2019? 22 a : I would hope so. 23 MR. a : Anything about the SHU, 24 though, I mean, if they’re sleeping in the SHU, 25 we have heard rumors that maybe in the SHU, EFTA00114695

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 222 1 they were sleeping a lot. Had you heard 2 anything about that, them sleeping during their 3 shifts in the SHU? 4 ee: What, the staff? 6 a: Well, all I could say i w +f) 7 this. The staff were walking around like 8 zombies. 9 MR. (J: | Right. 10 a : These guys and girls were 11 getting stuck four days a week, sometimes five 2 days a week, doing 16 hour shifts. I have 3 never in my career have seen so many write-ups 4 for officers refusing mandates. I have had to 15 write-up countless officers because they 16 refused a mandate, when I told them they had to 7 stay. And then, but at the same time, I 8 didn’t, I felt bad for them. 9 MR. QJ: | uh-huh. 20 WN: ts ceally did. Because they 21 were zombies. I was a zombie. And I was only 22 getting hit, like, twice a week. 23 MR. a : Okay. 24 ee: And I was a zombie. I’m 25 also pushing 47 now. I’m not a young kid EFTA00114696

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LIMITED ios) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO tes) No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE A the Ph if anymore, and some o se kids, 20 somethin years old, they would literally, they would standing up and exhausted. MR. a : So people are just too isted to do their job, is it? a: How, I mean, I spent time the Marine Corps and I remember going 36, 40 hours on three hours of sleep and that was rough at 18, 19 years old. Doing 16 it’s not human. Ee : Our bodies are not made So, being that they were exhausted and people were sleeping SHU. Do you believe that it’s likely that counts weren’t being conducted prior to fet 5 9, 2 223 Gg be for EFTA00114697

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co © No N No WW OFFICIAL USE confirm nor deny it. you know if they were SHU prior to that? would hope both? so. N ine) I just to God What rounds? Do being conducted in But you’re unaware confirm. All right. What do you especially on August 39 did anyone ever notify were not recording? So, during your, ", when were working, you that the cameras EFTA00114698

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 225 1 thing, like in the lieutenant’s office and in 2 control, we can see the cameras, but we don’t 3 know if they’re actually recording or not. 4 MR. a : So, there’s nothing to 5 indicate if they’re recording? 6 a: Like, that’s kept somewhere 7 else, like in the Computer Services people. 8 MR. a : Do you know at the time 9 where that was kept? 10 WA: St think, if I’m not 11 mistaken, there’s one on 3, by the com room, 2 and I’m not sure if there is one down here on 5 . 4 MR. ae : Do you know if, at the 15 time, do you know if the cameras where the 16 recording would have been kept in the SIS 7 office? 8 a: Well, there’s, where the 9 cameras, like, the hard drives are in the back 20 of where the com room is. 21 MR. QR: okay. 22 a : Which is part of the whole 23 SIS shop back there. 24 MR. a : So, if someone wanted to 25 knock the cameras offline and intentionally EFTA00114699

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LIMITED ies) w co wo i=) ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE stop them from recording, like, where could have tt y done that from? I’m not 100% certain. I don’t know if it could be done from back there or not. I just know that if) MR. a : And do you know anything about anyone knocking the cameras offline? ee: No. I do not. : H MR. a : Do you have any kind of, even theory or explanation of w the camer were not recording specifically in the SHU? : No? ng about tha a: Not until I heard it from, you know, what like, yo, the cameras didn’t work. The cameras didn’t pick anything up. And the newspapers. MR. a : Is that surprising to you, for you to where the room And you hadn’t heard rybody else going on around, everything here EFTA00114700

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE is gone. This building is decrepit. lightly. here, is to figure out -- a : I’ve been here, listen, I’ve been here 20 out of my 21 years on the job. I’m rounding it off. I mean, I don’t have i) fu MR. a : I know. What about the cameras? Weren’t they all fixed? Ee: They were just recently fixed. Now, lieutenant, I wished the cameras were th if] oO fu r o a ¥ now. You could actually see faces of inmates fighting. MR. QJ: uh-huh. a : And identify them. But before that, you couldn’t. MR. a : Who is responsible for EFTA00114701

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LIMITED OFF 1 oO Oo a : The com room. I’m sorry. Not the com room. The com shop, a. I think a. I’m not sure of a m o MR. a : Do you know if | at the time? MR. a : And who is, what’s his name? | | what? ht k now, he is the lc know where he don’t remember. I don’t who EFTA00114702

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LIMITED Oo wo ot) fe) oo 22 OFFICIAL USE a : I don’t remember. he was, was he plumbing at the time in the lock shop? I’m not sure. I think or know if he was h o of the cameras. Who would MN; © acilities MR. ae : All right. Facilities Manager and an i? Man I don’t recall who it Ph Hh o EFTA00114703

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE N Wo ° Do you know if Epstein was in his assigned cell on August 10, 2019, when he was found? he was in that corner I’m not 100% sure. I know cell, that’s all I know. Who would be responsible, if he, in the BOP database, the system, he is assigned to a different cell than he is change within the within Sentry? Yeah. soon as the, basically, the SHU Lieutenant would have to stay up on top nt’s H my o co ct i) 45 is where it’s suppose or anybody that visits So, it’s the SHU responsibility for that? make sure that everything to be in his unit. Does Ops or lieutenants the SHU and do rounds, are they responsible at all for -- You're not going to EFTA00114704

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LIMITED ies) w oO co wo i=) ive) co 23 OFFICIAL rounds. predominant function N wo Pp ur U i) when you’re making your predominant, the of doing the rounds is to make sure the officers are doing their job. point in time, I I do know -- returned from suicid servation, do you cell? same I believe, H think know leading up to August 9", Do you have, do you know in th cell that you I said, at one he was down on H tier. don’t remember. You don’t remember? don’t remember. know if, at Do you mean, at least a couple of I’m not 100% certain, Okay. And you mentioned, EFTA00114705

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE N Ww 1 this will be the last of the big topics, you 2 mentioned that you knew that ; was 3 allowing Epstein to place a telephone call on 4 August 9, 2019 When I came around to wi K @ wh p 6 escort him, he said, I got it. I’m going to 7 bring him up to SHU, and I’m going to give him 8 a legal call. I said, okay. 10 was being afforded a legal 1 MEN: |X, 1 do not. 2 MR. a : Especially he is already in with his already. I do not know. Ee : Do you know if it was actually a legal call that he placed? ive) f Co 5 co I don’t know. I don’t know. 9 MR. Ee : Do you know anything 24 MR. a : And did you talk to 25 | about that at all after the fac EFTA00114706

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE N Ww Ww he returned him? ee: No. I think he went home. think he left the building. a : Yeah. MR. a : All right. Did you find it unusual that he was being allowed to place a have done it ike, if, let’s my lawyer, niencing ing to be can do that he is actually not calling his lawyer, but he’s calling his -- MR. a: Mother. MR. a : -- mother? ee : I don’t know. EFTA00114707

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 234 1 MR. Ee : Is that at all, do you 2 believe that to be an acceptable practice, to - Ww | 4 ee: I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t do 5 it. If you’re telling me you need a legal 6 call, you’re going to call your attorney. 7 MR. QJ: | Right. 8 a : I’m not going to put you on 9 with the attorney and then sit there and hear 10 you say, oh, hi, Mom. No. Cause if you tell 11 me a legal call, I’m giving you a legal call. 2 MR. a : Do you know, would have 3 | needed approval to allow him to place a 4 call like that? 15 a: Well, you, | is a unit 16 team member, and unit team would normally do the legal calls for the inmates. 8 MR. a : Okay. So, would have, if 9 it was a legal call they provided him, but not 20 to his legal team, to his mother, would have he 21 needed to obtain approval for that? 22 a : I don’t know. I’m assuming 23 yes. I don’t know. I never heard of any, I 24 never heard that it was to his mom. I always, 25 he told me, I’m giving him a call. EFTA00114708

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 235 w ~] wo 10 11 ive) MR. QJ: Okay. So that’s all you know about it? ee: That’s all I know about it, and he got on the elevator and brought him up MR. a : Okay. What do you know about someone else taking Epstein’s life? a : Nothing. Except for the, pardon my language, the BS rumors that you hear out in the media, on social media, and in the public. MR. QM: okay.) what do you know about others assisting with taking Epstein’s life? a: I don’t believe that. MR. Ee : What do you, when you say you don’t believe it, do you know of any rumors or -- a: No, I don’t know of anything, and I don’t believe it. I don’t, there is nothing I know about it. And I have seen, not just at MCC New York, you hear about it throughout the Bureau. Somebody could hang themselves, just leaning forward on a bed. And it only takes a couple of minutes. EFTA00114709

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2 1 MR. Ee : So, did Epstein take his own life? Wo fen) WwW H ion @ b H Q 0 if ie) Me 7) n 4 MR. a : Did Epstein act alone in taking his own life? w oO I believe 7 MR. a : Did you have any involvement with Epstein -- co wo Absolutely not. 10 MR. a : What would have prevented 11 death, in (Indiscernible *02:52:11)? 2 a: In all actuality, if he 3 really wanted to commit suicide, nothing would 4 have prevented it, because anybody that really 15 wants to kill themsel can kill themselves. 16 Epstein’s cell overlooked the OIC’s desk. He 7 was watching the staff. He knew when he could 8 and when he couldn’t. 9 MR. Ee : Okay. So do you think 20 that if they were actually conducting their 21 counts and rounds as they should have, would 22 have that helped in preventing the death? 23 Ee : It could have helped, but it 24 wouldn’t have totally prevented it, because it 25 just takes minutes to kill yourself. If I EFTA00114710

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 237 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 wanted to do it, I would wait for you to make your round. I now know, I have 30 minutes to kill myself. It only takes two or three. MR. a : What about the fact that he was mandated to have a cellmate, and the cellmate was removed and no one backfilled it? Do you think that would have helped? a : Yes or no. Remember what I told you, in 2003. That dude committed suicide and he had a bunkie. MR. a : And then in the same token, though, you said Tartaglione was the one that notified them when he attempted the first time. a : Yeah. So, like, yes and no. That’s why I said yes and no. Like, if that inmate is asleep, and let’s say that inmate is a heavy sleeper, Epstein could have strung up while he was asleep. MR. a : Okay. And then this is just the last overall question that I have and then I’1l turn it over. What are some of the systematic problems inside the MCC, and specifically, the SHU that allowed for Epstein to die? EFTA00114711

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 238 ay 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 a: I’m sorry. Can you just restate the question? MR. a : So, what are some of the problems in the SHU? We just talked about, obviously, if they didn’t conduct their rounds and the counts as they should have, the SHU staff -- Ee: = b-huh. MR. a : -- and people didn’t act in order to get him a new cellmate, what are some of the other problems, systematic problems? It sounded like you may have mentioned that people were too tired to work (Indiscernible *02:54:04). a : Well, that’s the only thing I got. Especially at that time. Right now, staffing got a little better. It got a lot better, and staff got put on 12 hour shifts. So, this way, they have more time off. And they can’t get stuck for 16s every day. Right? That’s now. Then, they were tired. They were tired. And you also didn’t, you never had a regular crew. What I mean by a regular crew, you never, you didn’t always have the consistent staff in there. And you had staff EFTA00114712

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 23 Ww wo 1 that were exhausted, on top of exhaustion. And 2 the SHU unit, in my opinion, always has, when I was even, when I was a SHU o ies) icer back in the Fh Fh 4 early 2000s, that was the post. That was one w rt a oO of most high-profile posts in this 7 MR. a : The SHU was? SHU. Yeah. I mean, even co wo until this whole thing happened. 10 MR. SJ: «why? 1 ee: We had, we had El Chapo for ive) Fs) Right. 4 Ee: Without a hitch. With But he was also not in t oO a oo I o = ry] tr bh 5 ra wn ie) G cr ion 9 believe that 20 10 South or G tier? 22 really doesn’t matter with the grand scope of H mean, my personal opinion 23 things. I’m not a decision maker. 24 MR. QM: «ell, just with 20 you believe he should have -- EFTA00114713

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 240 1 a: I feel he should have been ies) w tance, on a staff member ie] rt J fw rt un ct 12) ct wu = b exhausted. There’s only six ts) Q oO bh bh w up there. And you don’t have to crawl up i=) and down stairs. You walk from the first cell, 1 it’s like a U, almost. it also true that ive) individual camera? 5 MR. a : And who monit< those t a a wu | oO KK w 7) 7 Ee : The officer that is working 8 up and, right in front 9 of his or her station and the same cameras can 20 be seen in the com room. 21 MR. 23 Ee : Not on the off-shifts 24 MR. Po C What shifts? EFTA00114714

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 241 Just day shift? There used to be, when the staff was available, the night shift. But for the most part, it was the day shift. the person n 10 South, and i 10 South guy also camer the camer th would watch Uh-huh. Yeah. MR. a : -- 10 South, as well ee : I could be wrong, but I Okay. But you believe that by placing him on 10 South, he would hav s my personal EFTA00114715

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 242 1 opinion. 2 MR. a : Okay. Is there anything 3 else that you want to add that we haven’t 4 addressed? 6 vR. A: o> EP 7 MR. a : You have about covered 8 everything. Just a last question. Are COs 9 allowed to conduct rounds, counts by 10 themselves? 11 ee: If there’s less than five 2 inmates. 3 MR. a: If, let’s say in the SHU. 4 Are they allowed to do counts by themselves? 15 a: No. There’s more than five 16 inmates. Ten South, if there’s four inmates on 7 10 South, the officer doesn’t need another 8 officer to count. 9 MR. a : If they did the count by 20 themselves, is that an actual count? Is it 21 considered as a count? 22 WN: tts not a proper count. 23 It’s not a proper count. I mean, I could 24 count, easily count 96 inmates, 100 inmates, 20 25 inmates, whatever it is, by myself. It’s not EFTA00114716

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 243 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 going to be an official count unless you have a back-up person. You have, the way the policy works is one officer is supposed to stay at the end of the range, one officer goes downrange, counts the inmates, come back and that other officer goes down and counts the range. And then when you meet back up at the front, I got 15, 15, okay. Then they go to the next tier. Cause I might have 15 and you might have counted 14. We got to redo that count. And then until we both jive, and then go to the next tier, same thing, another tier, another tier, whatever, how many tiers there are in the unit, then we come up with our total number, and that’s what we call into Control. Say, hey, i. ; and i. I got 55. Fifty- five is a good verbal. All right. Thank you. Sign the count slip. You sign, I give it to you, you sign the count slip. Send it down to internal to control. MR. a: Nothing from me. MR. a : Nothing? All right. Nothing else? MR. a: Any questions for us? EFTA00114717

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LIMITED w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE currently 12:22 p.m. o 1s c Senior M2 amt 2021. This All right. n Wednesday, Special en QQ urning off tt N It is August 4, EFTA00114718

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 245 EFTA00114719

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFICATE 246 I hereby certify that the foregoing pages represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Interview of ay Marcella Conley, Transcriber EFTA00114720