LIMITED OFFICIAL USE DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL MAY 31, 2022 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Dr., Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113220

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE APPEARANC OR GENERAL LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113221

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

Ww ow oO wo uw wo No oO ine) LIMITED OFFICIAL USE MR. QJ: his is Special Agent J a. Today is May 315*, 2022. The time is 3:33 p.m., and the recording is now on. My name is a . I am a Special Agent with the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General, New York Field Office, and these are my credentials. You should be able to see. This interview with New York City Medical Examiner Dr. a Did I say that right? MS. Yes. aa: MR. a: Is being conducted as part of an official U.S. Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General investigation. Today’s date is May 315*, 2022. The time is 3:34 p.m. This interview is being conducted via Microsoft Teams Video Conferencing. Also present is DOJ/OIG Special Agent-in-Charge | | i. and Office of Chief Medical Examiner interview be recorded by me, Special Agent themselves for the record and spell your last ct name? To start, again, I am DOJ/OIG Special LIMITED OFFICIAL USE Wo EFTA00113222

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

he i) wo co wo Nh nN Nh S) LIMITED OFFICIAL USE i. SAC a: You’ re on mute. i. I'm the Special Agent-in-Charge for the New York Field Office. a. General Counsel from the New York City Office of Chief Medical M-A-N. And I'm a city medical examiner at Office of the Chief Medical Examiner in New York. Thank you, everyone. This is n into the voluntarily provide answers to our questions. Will you agree to a the DOJ/O MS. IG? aa: interview, I would like to place you under starting the oath. Dr. a. can you please raise your right hand? Do you swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth during this interview? LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113223

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

~ 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE MS. Ha: I swear. MR. a: Thank you. Please let me know if you don’t understand any questions that I ask. I’11 try to repeat it or try to rephrase it for you. MS. a: Okay. MR. a: We’re going to start with your background, and then get into the details of the autopsy itself. Can you provide us with a summary of your college level education, starting with your bachelor’s degree? MS. a: Sure. My bachelor’s degree is in Fine Art, and I completed that at Cooper Union School of Art. I then went back to school for pre-medical studies only, to Columbia University School of Graduate Studies, and completed the requisites, the pre-requisite courses for applying to medical school. I then went to medical school at SUNY Downstate in Brooklyn, completed that, and I earned an MD. I did a year of residency training in obstetrics and gynecology. Found that that wasn’t the right field for me, so I switched. I did three years of training in LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113224

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE pathology. And then, I did a final year of fellowship training in forensic pathology. All of my residency training was done at King’s County Hospital in Brooklyn, and the fellowship training was done here at the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner. MR. a: Okay. And the three years in pathology, that was done at the Office of Chief Medical Examiner? MS. Ha: No. That was also done at King’s County, and not Brooklyn. MR. a: Okay. Now, once you do the three years in pathology, and you come over. Did you start with the Office of Chief Medical Examiner right after that? MS. |g After completing the fellowship year, yes. MR. a: Okay. And then, once you started at the Office of Chief Medical Examiner, is there specialized training that they sent you in for also, or -? MS. Ha: We do, to maintain our licenses, we do training on a weekly basis. And in order to be board certified, you have to recertify every ten years, and every year, show LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113225

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE that you’ve done a certain amount of credits of training. So, I’ve been undergoing supplementary training my entire life since coming to the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner. MR. a: Okay. And what year did you earn your doctor? Did you become a doctor? MS. a: It was 1999 when I graduated from medical school. MR. a : Okay. And your three years in pathology? When did you complete that? Ms. QR: =o, I did, from '99 to 2001 was OB. And then, from 2001 to 2003 was the pathology training. And then, ’03 to ‘04 was the fellowship training. MR. a: '03 to '04. So, you’ve been with the Medical Examiner’s Officer for almost 20 years now? MS. a: Yes. I did leave for one year briefly. I took a job elsewhere to be second in command. Didn't like it. Came back. So, there has been a year break in service. MR. a: Was that recently, or going back a while? MS. QJ: 92013 to 2014. LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113226

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

ow oO ~—] wo 10 12 13 14 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE MR. a: Okay. Where did you go? MS. a: I went to Madison, Wisconsin to work at the Dane County Medical Examiner’s Officer. MR. QJ: 9 That’s a big jump from New York City to Madison. MS. a: Oh, you aren’t kidding. It’s very different. MR. a: SAC a. do you have questions about background? a) 5 he MR. a: Nothing from me. Thanks. MR. a: No problem. Prior to conducting -. So, are you familiar with MCC inmate - the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York - inmate Jeffrey Epstein? MS. a: After his death, yes. MR. a : So, prior to conducting -. Did you conduct his autopsy? MS. QJ: 1 did. MR. a: Okay. Prior to conducting Jeffrey Epstein’s autopsy, how many autopsies Tt had you conducted? you can give me a rough estimate. MS. aa: Oh. I don't know exactly. It was a couple thousand. LIMIT OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113227

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE MR. a: Oh, okay. And do you know how many -? An estimate of how many of those autopsies resulted in the conclusion of suicide? MS. a: Again, I don’t have an exact number, but I will say that there were an awful lot of suicides in Staten Island where I worked, and in Dane County. So, I’ve done plenty. Certainly more than a hundred, probably several hundred. MR. a: Wow. Okay. And did you ever deal with any prisoner deaths that you conducted autopsies for, prior to Mr. Epstein? MS. a: Oh, yes. MR. a: Okay. And how many of those autopsies, if you can give an estimate, resulted in the determination of cause of death by suicide? MS. a: So, I can remember a couple actually. Maybe two or three. MR. aa: Okay. 1I’11 come back to that. Anything else, SAC a. on that? MR. a: No. And now, doctor, these were deaths at the MDC, Metropolitan Detention Center, or was this the MCC, or what facility LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113228

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

ow oO o wo uw fon) o No Oo wo ine) LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 were these autopsies conducted in reference to their deaths? MS. aa: I honestly don’t remember. I’d have to look that up. MR. QJ: 9 But they were local here in New York? MS. a: They were New York cases. MR. J: 9 Okay. MS. a: I didn't do any custody cases at all when I was in Dane County. MR. aa: Thanks. MS. a: Just a y, it is Ph lari rt is) Q (Indiscernible *00: 30) City Department of Correction -- MR. QJ: 9 Okay. MS. a : -- you’re asking about federal deaths MR. a: Yes, we are. MR. aa: Okay. So, yeah. MR. a: Thank you for that. Dr. a. do you recall when and where you conducted the autopsy of Jeffrey Epstein? MS. aa: I did the autops of August, 2019, and I actually have my notes on the 11% LIMITED OFF EFTA00113229

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE in front of me, so I will check the -- MR. a: Okay. MS. a: -- time, if you’d bear with me. Oh, let’s see. I mean, actually, maybe I don’t have that particular note. I don’t remember exactly, but I know he was my only case that day. So, I started in the morning, and worked steadily through the day on him. MR. a: Okay. So, that was the only case for the day. MS. Ha: Yes. MR. a: And when did you become aware of his death? MS. a: We were made aware of the death the day prior, and we were expecting him to arrive the day prior, actually, on the 10, MR. a : Okay. How do you get assigned to do Mr. Epstein’s autopsy? Is that like a rotation? Or was it assigned to you by somebody? MS. a: It was assigned to me by somebody. We had initially thought he would come in on the 10, and I wasn’t the person assigned, but that person wasn’t working on the 11**, and I was chosen to do the autopsy on the LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 11 EFTA00113230

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

nN Nh Nh S) N WwW wo WwW wo LIMITED OFFIC was chosen initiall MS. Do you MS. Yup. MR. Did an with the autop Yes. I and photographers st autopsy. MR. Do you hand? MS. H rt n blanking. I said -- MS. LIMITED yone ing me with Do you know who it y: know the name? had morgue technici the know the names off remember the photographer And = wu ts) ct 'm blanking on the one t was ans n re hat ‘ re] EFTA00113231

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE = Wo 1 MR. a: -- there 2 one other person. Right? 3 MS. aa: Yeah. And there was another tech who sort of rotated in and out, and remember which one that was. wo No problem. 11 a I know a couple of i. and she 2 a. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Definitely. Do -? 9 MS. a: Do you want me to -- 20 Yes. 21 recount it for you? 24 obvious ligature furrow, very consistent with 25 what I typically see in a hanging. And he, EFTA00113232

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 ine) uw LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 14 above the furrow, had fluride (Phonetic Sp. *00:10:16) petechial hemorrhages of his facial skin, his conjunctiva, and in his mouth, all things that I see very frequently in hangings. MR. a: I'm going to ask you a favor. So, some of the terminology is going to go right over my head. So, and especially for reporting everything. Is it possible -? I don't know if you can, how do I say? To dumb it down. Say it in English? Yes. = es) I could do that. I'm pretty sure you know what ligature furrow -- MR. Yes. MS -- means. I do. It’s just a deep -- Yes. -- abraded sort of abrasion of BG 8 the skin. The petechiae that I'm referring to, and the plethora. So, plethora is purple discoloration of the skin from back up of circulation. Petechiae are pinpoint hemorrhages that occur with a similar LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113233

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 15 mechanism. If the blood is cut off, and the small capillaries burst, you get petechial hemorrhages, which, they’re just like pinpoint bleeds in the skin. So, he had them in his skin, in his eyes, and in his mouth. MR. a: Okay. MS. a: Yeah. MR. a: And is that consistent with suicides? MS. a: It’s consistent with a suicide by hanging. Yes. MR. a: Right. Hanging. Can that also be associated with anything else, like strangulation, anything like that? MS. aa: So, the petechiae can be. The plethora, usually not. MR. a : Okay. And why not the plethora? MS. a: Because the plethora really involves having a sustained steady pressure, and you usually don’t get that ina strangulation because very rarely is a person going to be still for that, or submit to it, without struggling. So, with a struggle, the pressure is not even, and you really don’t get LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113234

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 16 the plethora, and the petechiae aren’t quite distributed like his were. His were, like, just all the way from the neck up, he had petechiae. In strangulations, it’s usually just the eyes and mouth, not all of the skin. So, even though they can be seen in homicidal strangulations, they usually have a different pattern then I saw in Mr. Epstein. MR. aa: Got it. Thank you. So, what made you come to the conclusion that Jeffrey Epstein’s death was a suicide? Can you walk us through that? I know you mentioned the plethora, the petechiae, and also the ligature itself. What else did you see that made you come to the conclusion as suicide? Sorry. MS. Ha: So, the autopsy didn't show really any signs of a struggle. And every single strangulation case I’ve had, even people who were really impaired by intoxicants, they struggled. So, he didn't have any marks on his hands. He had one abrasion on his arm, which probably was from convulsing when being hanging. But nothing that suggested a struggle. No broken fingernails. No other bruising anywhere. LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113235

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 17 He was pretty much pristine, other than the neck and face findings. He also internally didn't have strap muscle hemorrhages of the neck. That’s bleeding in the lung muscles, in the front of your neck. Nor did he have hemorrhaging in the muscles of the back of his neck. That you see when it’s been an incomplete compression, not a sustained compression like a hanging. So, when I don’t see those, I'm more likely to think hanging than manual strangulation, or even ligature strangulation. And then, lastly, he did have fractures of his thyroid cartilage and one side of his hyoid bone. These are structures inside your neck. Then the pattern of these fractures was consistent with a hanging. You see a very different pattern of fracturing if there has been a manual compression of the neck versus a sustained pressure of a hanging. And the pattern of his fractures was that of a hanging. So, even without an investigation, and although I wanted one, just because of the nature of the case, even without an investigation, this case, autopsy wise, looked LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113236

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 18 like a very clear-cut hanging. MR. a: Okay. I'm going to break that down just a little bit. The hyoid -- MS. a: Sure. MR. a : -- the hyoid bone. What is that? MS. a: So - It’s a little warm in my office, sorry - it’s a U-shaped bone that sits between your tongue and your larynx. Sort of horseshoed like this, shaped like this, right here. And its function is to aid in swallowing and phonation, speaking. Because it’s almost like a little wishbone, when somebody squeezes your neck, it snaps. And if somebody squeezes your neck ina homicidal fashion with un-sustained pressure, it’ll snap near the joints where it was centrally. If your hyoid bone is pressed against your spine by hanging, it fractures at the tips. Maybe one. Maybe both. His is fractured on the tip, on the left. So, that’s why I think his hyoid bone is fractured from hanging and not manual strangulation. MR. a: Okay. And what about the thyroid -? What is the thyroid? LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113237

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE MS. Ha: So, the thyroid cartilage, I think that’s what you mean -- MR. a: Yes. MS. | | -- is what we refer to as, like, the larynx, or the voice box. And it’s sort of a -. It’s almost shaped like a butterfly inside of your throat. And it has two horns at the top, which be almost like the tops of butterfly wings. And those sit next to the end points of the hyoid bone. MR. a: Okay. MS. a: So, that structure also gets pressed against the spine when you hang, and the tips break, and that’s exactly where his thyroid cartilage is fractured, on both of the tips. MR. a : Okay. MS. a: And if it’s fractured during a manual strangulation, whether it’s a bar type or a pincher type, it usually fractures, again, centrally or unevenly, not in this even fashion. MR. a: And because there was consistent - you’re saying - because there was consistent pressure -- LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 19 EFTA00113238

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE MS. Ha: Yes. MR. a: -- pressure on the neck, it’s a different type of damage that happens to the hyoid bone, and also the thyroid cartilage itself, and that’s what you saw in Epstein - Jeffrey Epstein -- MS. a: Yes. MR. a: -- and that’s why you came to the determination of suicide? MS. a: Yes. All of these things combined, lack of other trauma, beautiful ligature furrow that actually peaked. You know, if it’s a ligature strangulation, they usually don’t peak upward. They’re either straight across, or they peak downward. His peak is upward slightly. He’s got the plethora, the petechiae, the patterns of fracturing, and no other trauma. So, all of that together made this autopsy very, very consistent with a suicidal hanging. MR. aa: When you say peak, you mean the back of the actual ligature itself, on the back of the neck, going up? MS. aa: Yeah. I can -. Let me see. I'm going to use my phone cord to show you. LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 20 EFTA00113239

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE When you hang yourself, it hangs, and it actually will sometimes make like a peak at the back, right? And sometimes it isn’t fully circumferential. That’s really classic for hanging. So, Mr. Epstein had a peak, it was sort of to the right and behind the ear, and it was not fully circumferential. Totally consistent with a hanging. MR. aa: And if it was circumstantial, that means someone strangled him? MS. Ha: It can, or it can mean that if he has - if you are really good, if what they showed me was his ligature, he didn't tie a good slip knot, i.e., he didn't tie a good hangman’s knot. If you tie a good hangman’s knot, it will sometimes be circumferential just because it tightens with your weight. If you don’t, if you have a fixed knot, you slump into the ligature, and it doesn't -. It isn’t circumferential. So, it depends on the ligature. I have a feeling he wasn’t well versed in the tying of hangman’s knots or good slip knots, and that’s why his isn’t circumferential. MR. a: So, what type of knot did you LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 21 EFTA00113240

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE see on the noose? Ms. QJ: so, they showed me a noose with what looked like a fixed sort of granny knot. And I'm not convinced that’s even a noose because they told me they thought this was the ligature, but there was a lot of confusion about what the ligature - which thing was actually the ligature. And there was a lot of stuff in that room. But the thing that they said, this is the ligature, it had a fixed knot. Not a slip knot. MR. a: Okay. I kind of jumped, but I'll come back to the noose part. That’s later on in the interview. You said there was no defensive wounds. So, if someone was to - if there was possibly an attack - me just putting it out there - if it was an attack, there would have been defensive wounds. Where else? Where would you have seen the defensive wounds? MS. | og So, what I tend to see in victims of strangulation is they have lots of debris under their fingernails from fighting, and from trying to pull the strangling person off their own neck. So, you’ll see a bunch of linear abrasions usually on the neck itself, LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 22 EFTA00113241

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 23 and chin, and you’ll see a lot of debris under the nails. He didn't have either of those things. Those are usually women. Being that he’s a man, I would have also expected more of sort of the pugilistic type of injuries, because I can't imagine somebody strangling a man easily without him trying to punch them out. So, I would think there would be some, you know, punch-type things, too, or sort of contusions on the knuckles and stuff. But he didn't have any of that. None of that stuff. MR. a: Is it possible, I mean, in cases of suicide, like, once someone tries to hang themselves, do they just sit there? I mean, is it possible that they -? Normally with a person trying, you know, last second, change their mind, and try to dig in, and try to stop themselves from dying? MS. | og Well, that really rarely happens. I’ve yet to see that happen. I’ve seen hangings where people simply tie a ligature and slump forward in a chair. It happens pretty quickly. You lose consciousness in, like, less than a minute. And then, at LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113242

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 24 that point, there’s really no intentional activity, and you start to seize pretty quickly. So, there is a very small sort of envelope of time, and most people are able to not fight that. I mean, I rarely -. I actually can't think of any case where I've seen the clawing things in a hanging, even a non-complete suspension hanging, which I suspect this is. MR. a : No problem. SAC a. any questions on that? MR. aa: Yes, doctor. So, the broken hyoid bone and the fractured thyroid. Was there any indication that these bones were damaged -- MS. QJ: 9 Mm-hon. MR. Ha: -- before the possible - well, I guess the break, right? - but could you be able to tell if there was some kind of damage to those bones before you actually conducted your autopsy? MS. Ha: So, I had an anthropologist look at those to determine exactly that, if they were fractured superimposed on old trauma, or if they were just recent fractures. And LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113243

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 25 their opinion was that they were recent fractures. It was no superimposed trauma. MR. a: So, I'm guessing you were familiar with the July 23*4 incident where Mr. Epstein tried to take his life initially? MS. a: Yes. I was. MR. a: And there was a noose found around his neck. We were just trying to get an idea if it’s possible that he sustained injuries during that attempt, that could have also assisted, or made things, you know, the broken hyoid and the thyroid cartilage could have also been because of the fact of the initial attempt? Could it have been broken because of the damage already caused by the July 23*4 incident? MS. a: I think probably not, just based on how they appeared. They don’t describe any - the anthropologist - doesn't describe any healing. So, there would have been, if there is a refracture from a prior fracture, there probably would have been some healing visible, and they didn't see that. Also, if he had sustained that kind of trauma the first time, he would have had LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113244

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 26 symptoms. He would have, you know, had difficulty talking and swallowing, and they probably would have noted that clinically. So, that might be a question you direct the people who took care of him after the first attempt. MR. a: Okay. MR. a: And just a follow up, doctor. You said that people lose consciousness within a minute. Is that pretty standard, you know, when they attempt to hang themselves? Is that, in your practice, a pretty standard time frame? MS. a: So, where I'm getting that information from isn’t so much my practice as there is a woman in Canada who researched this extensively, and actually had a collection of films of people hanging themselves. They were judicial hangings. They were in-custody hangings where there were actual cameras on prisoners who had managed to hang themselves. And there were people who actually filmed their own hangings. And on those films, there is a really consistent pattern of they hang, in about a minute or less, they become limp, and then they start to seize violently. And it’s almost a LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113245

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

ow oO 10 11 12 13 14 17 18 19 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE hundred percent reproducible. So, it’s based on sort of evidence that other people have gathered as opposed to anything I've done or researched on my own. MR. a: Sure. Okay. No. Thank you. MR. aa: Is there anything else you observed during the autopsy examination that you thought might seem suspicious or out of place? Like bruising, cuts, things like that? MS. a: Nothing at all. MR. a : I'm going to show you -. I'm going to share a picture with you. This is part of your -. Bear with me. Can you see this? MS. aa: Yes. MR. a: Do you see the cut above the lip? MS. aa: Yeah. MR. a : On him. MS. aa: Yeah. I do. MR. a: Do you know where -? Do you know what the cause of that? Is that something from the resuscitation, or was that -? MS. aa: So, there were other photos that will also show cuts on the other side of LIMITED OFFICIAL a fo EFTA00113246

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 28 the lip, inside, and I think that these are from resuscitative efforts. They’re pretty commonly seen when there is a mixture of different types of resuscitation, particularly if they’ve used a mask, or if it’s somebody who is - if there was any bystander resuscitation, as well. So, these, to me, appeared resuscitative. Also, there is no, like, real bruising under these. If I had thought these were from some kind of impact to his face, there would be bruising, and if you look at the rest of the autopsy, I have the inside of his mouth photographed really well, and all you see are the petechiae. There is no big bruising. So, these aren’t impacts. These are consistent with him probably being already dead when they were trying to resuscitate him. MR. a : Okay. And this is, this picture is labeled, “Photos, I.D., Visual 001”. This is the picture that was taken by your office. Right? MS. a: Yes. It’s taken by the mortuary technicians for the purpose of showing it to a family so they can identify the LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113247

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 59 deceased formally for us. MR. a: Okay. (Indiscernible *00:25:21). MS. a: In the next picture, you can see the petechiae really well on his face, actually. MR. aa: Yeah. Doctor, that was going to be my question. Is this a good depiction of the petechiae, was you described earlier to us? The blonchyness (Phonetic Sp. *00:25:29) red in his face. Is that what you typically see? The petechiae. MS. a: Yeah. MR. aa: Okay. MS. aa: Yeah. You can see it’s blotchy, and almost sort of -. It looks almost like a measles rash, but it’s small pinpoint hemorrhages. Yeah. MR. a: Okay. MR. a: And you mentioned that’s from sustained pressure on the neck. MS. a: Yes. MR. a : All right. I'm going to show you a couple other pictures from the same -. Tell me if you recognize this picture. It was LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113248

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE also labeled, “INV scene 004.” It was provided by your office. Do you recognize this? MS. aa: I do. MR. a: Okay. So, just to give an explanation. Did you have a chance to go by the cell, see the cell itself? MS. a: No. They wouldn't let me go in and see the cell itself. I had to rely on photographs. MR. a : Yeah. So, it’s a little tough. So, just to give an explanation. Where the picture, the person’s point of view, whoever is standing there, that’s where the door is, the cell door is. Now, if you look in, there is a little window on the door. So, when we got a chance to interview the correctional officer who found Mr. Epstein, he was basically doing feeding, just to give you an understanding, he was coming there early morning, he was doing the feeding time, and he knocked on the cell, and you see the mattress on the floor? MS. Ha: Yes. MR. a: Mr. Epstein’s legs were sticking out. So, he was actually - and not, LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 30 EFTA00113249

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 31 like, to (Indiscernible *00:26:53) - I mean, the mattress sticking out. Mr. Epstein was to the right itself. So, he couldn't see anything to the right. He called out to Mr. Epstein. He didn't answer. So, he walked in. And when he walked in, he couldn't explain it for us, a mess like this, he explained there was a lot of linens, a lot of different stuff, but the mattress was there. And when he found Mr. Epstein - and I'm going to show you another picture - Mr. Epstein was to the right, the part that we can't see in the initial picture. MS. Ha: Yup. MR. a: And he was hanging from the corner over here. So, you see then, he mentioned that’s part of the noose. And he was hanging low with his bottom, with his buttocks off the ground. So, his feet was out, and his buttocks was off the ground. So -- MS. Ha: Okay. MR. aa: -- that’s how he found him. So, basically, he didn't use a cutter. He actually pulled. So, I think he used all his might, he panicked, so the C.0O. kind of pulled the noose, and the noose broke, and Mr. Epstein LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113250

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 32 fell to the ground, and then he wrapped his arms around Mr. Epstein and dragged him out to the outer area. I don't know if I have a picture. Let me go back. He dragged him out here. Can you see where my mouse is? MS. aa: Yup. MR. a: He dragged him out here so he could perform CPR on it, or on Mr. Epstein. MS. a: Can I ask you a question quickly? MR. a: Yeah. MS. a: So, I see that piece of stuff hanging in the corner there. That is not what they brought to me and called the ligature. When this correction officer pulled Jeffrey Epstein out to start CPR, did something remain around his neck? MR. a: So, he doesn't recall. He thinks he took it -- Ms. QJ: 9 an. MR. aa: -- took it off. He was not a hundred percent sure. Everything happened in the moment in time. One of the questions we were going to ask you is, who provided you with that noose? LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113251

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE MS. Ha: I believe -. So, I think that it was given to the investigators by the EMS crew who took over the -. Yeah, that’s the picture of how it came to us. It was in the bag. And this is what they brought me. MR. a: So, this is labeled, “Path evidence 006.” And the picture prior to this was, “INV scene 009.” So, this is what they provided to you. And you said this didn't seem -. This was like a -. You didn't think this was the piece that cost - that was the noose around his neck? MS. Ha: Well, I'm asking because in the photo you showed me a piece of stuff hanging, and you tell me that the correction officer pulled and ripped. This thing that they gave me isn’t ripped at all like it would be ripped off of something. It’s ripped to create the strip, but it’s not ripped off. So MR. aa: Okay. Ms. BJ: -- i'm -. MR. a: That’s the same question we had. MS. Ha: It’s making me wonder if this LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 33 EFTA00113252

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE is even the ligature that they gave me. vi: show you another picture. All right. So, I'm going to This is in the same set of pictures that you had to -. Sorry. (Indiscernible *00:29:50). MS. a: Oh, no, ue. don’t do that. This is labeled “INV scene 055.” Right? And this is when you -. Let me show you the initial picture again. You notice, there’s the entrance when we walk in. This is the little table, stool area right there. MS. a: Yes. MR. [: There is a toilet here. This is INV picture 005. There is a stool there. Now, we’re going to go back to the other picture. You’ll notice this to the left of the stool. MS. QR: yes. MR. : laying there? You see that? You see that little noose Yeah. MR. a : Now I'm going to give you a close up over here. This is INV scene 015. This seems like there was another noose that LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 34 EFTA00113253

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 35 was laying at the scene. I don't know if you can see that a little bit better. MS. a: Yeah. MR. a: And this seems to have a tear. MS. aa: It does. MR. a: And if you compare it to the other picture that we saw, if he pulled, if this was around Mr. Epstein’s neck, to me, it seems like there should have been more -. Like, it should have been tight, tightened up a lot more. Like, he should have been more wrinkled up because it was wrapped around his neck. Right? As a noose. But it doesn't seem like there was much. It looks like -. Can you explain the difference? By looking at it, what do you think? MS. a: Well, what it looks like to me is that it’s too tidy. And if you tell me that somebody tore him off of the corner -. Like, when you look at that thing that they showed me, it was never clear to me how that suspended him from anything. All right? I could see him putting the looped part around his neck, but I can't see how this suspended him from anything. LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113254

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 36 There is no knot hanging anywhere or anything like this. And then, that other thing you showed me that’s by the desk apparatus, that is torn, it makes more sense to me because that’s got the tearing that the correction officer remembers. Either one of these, in terms of its shape, could have caused the markings on Mr. Epstein, but this one, this second one that you’re showing me that was never brought to me, looks like a more likely candidate. MR. a: Okay. Do you recall -? Do you know if the initial noose that was brought to you, was there any DNA testing, or any kind of testing done on that noose? MS. a: I didn't swab it or anything. We’re instructed not to do that just to submit it. So, I am not sure what happened to it after I bagged it up and gave it to evidence. MR. a: When you say submit it, what does that mean? MS. Ha: It means that I bag it up again, and submit it as evidence, and then whoever is investigating, the cops, you guys, whoever it is, they decide whether or not to do LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113255

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

ow oO 10 11 12 13 14 17 18 19 ine) uw LIMITED OFFICIAL USE DNA testing. MR. ER: questions on the MR. QR: And I think you said this earlier. this cloth material marks. So, here, you’re saying is we have several in the pictures, I don’t actually order that. Okay. Because it’s irrelevant to me, SAC i. do you have any pictures before -? I do. Yes. Just a follow up. You said could have caused those regardless of what noose was used but what that, this type of material could have caused the marks consistent of what you noticed in your autopsy? the second noose, MS. Correct. Okay. And your office doesn't have you said. Right? I don’t think I ever received this piece of stuff that you’re showing me. No. MR. a: Okay. And this knot. I know, since you mentioned hangman’s noose, and different nooses, do you -- MS. QJ: 9 Mm-hmn. LIMITED OFFICIAL a fo EFTA00113256

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 38 MR. a: -- can you tell what kind of knot this is? MS. a: Those look like fixed knots, as well. They actually look like granny knots to me. They don’t look like knots that will slide and tighten, which is one of the reasons why I said that this could have just as easily caused the markings. MR. a: Okay. And based on the knot, this was - as SAC 7 asked - this could have been the one that - this or the other one - could be the one that caused Mr. Epstein’s death/ MS. a: Yes. MR. a: Okay. And this is, what kind of knot is this one? MS. a: That looks like another kind of -. It’s either a granny knot, or it’s an overhand knot, but it’s a fixed knot. It’s not a sliding knot, like a slip knot or a hangman’s knot, which is really just a series of slip knots. MR. a: So, this is in reference to packed evidence, picture 006, and the other one was the initial reference about the knot was LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113257

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 39 for INV scene 015. Okay. Anything else, SAC a: MR. a: Nothing further. Thank you. MR. a: All right. So, a witness, basically an inmate, told the guard man that he saw the C.0O. who entered Epstein’s cell fall to the ground with Epstein when he attempted to move him, or when he pulled him, whatever, he couldn't describe -. He didn't give us an exact explanation. But he said that he actually saw the C.O. and Epstein fall to the ground. In your examination, did you see any bruising or anything consistent with any falls that Mr. Epstein might have taken? MS. aa: Nope. MR. a: Okay. MS. a: But if he landed on top of the guy, I wouldn't have seen much. MR. QJ: «Okay. And if he didn't, if he landed on the floor, would there have been bruising being the fact that he was already - if he was already dead at this point. Would there have been bruising on his body? MS. aa: There might not have been bruising, but what I might have seen might have LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113258

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 40 been sort of dried, not hemorrhagic abrasions. Particularly if the guy pulling him was a big guy and landed on top of him. That could -. Even a dead body, if you scrape it across a concrete floor like that, you’re going to get some scraping on the skin. I wouldn't see bruising, but I would see scraping most likely. MR. a: And he mentioned that he didn't use a cutter. Normal practices, if you see somebody hanging, they use a cutter to cut the rope. MS. a: Mm-hmm. MR. a: He didn't use a cutter. He just yanked on it. Is it possible why him yanking on the rope, trying to yank the rope off, he could have caused - the C.0. - could have caused any of the damage on Mr. Epstein’s neck? MS. a: He certainly could have augmented it. I see it in hangings without that, but if he was pulling Epstein against the ligature, and it snapped, that could have augmented any damage that was already there, or even created some of it. Particularly, if he did a short, sharp pull. It could have. LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113259

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE MR. a: Okay. And as far as you recall, there was no bruising, cuts, or anything else that stood out on his body, that could have possibly been, like, defensive or suspicious to you? MS. a: Not at all. MR. a: Okay. Sorry. I asked a lot of questions, and I'm just making sure I'm not (Indiscernible *00:36:30). SAC a. you can ask anything else. MR. Ha: Yeah. a. I don't know if you want to move on to toxicology. MR. a: Yes. MR. a: I know there was a toxicology test done, and, you know, you know, I guess the question is, was there anything found in his system? MS. a: Let me double check that. Hang on. I have the case in front of me. As I recall, absolutely nothing, but let me be sure, sure, sure. Since I'm under oath and all. Here we go. Yup. Nothing detected. MR. a: And that’s, and obviously, contraband substances, but also anything prescribed to him. Any medications that he LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 41 EFTA00113260

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE would have been on? But there was nothing in his system at all? MS. a: Nothing in his system at all. Now, our testing doesn't cover every single prescription medication -- MR. QJ: 9 All right. MS. a: -- out there. Those are often targeted testing that I need to request. I saw what was in the cell. There were vitamins. There was Tylenol that was not opened. Those things, the Tylenol will show up on our regular testing. As well as, like, the other stuff he was taking. I think he was taking, like, a steroid, as well. None of that showed up. MR. aa: And in those substances, is it safe to say that it would not have contributed to his death? MS. a: Correct. MR. Ha: Yeah. MR. a: I just have a few more questions. And before I go. All right. Do you recall that Mark Epstein -? Did you ever deal with a Mark Epstein? Jeffrey Epstein’s brother. MS. QM: 1 did. LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 42 EFTA00113261

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 43 MR. a: Okay. Do you recall that he hired his own medical examiner to be also present for the autopsy? MS. a: Oh, yeah. Yup. MR. a : Do you remember the name of that medical examiner? MS. a: Yeah. So, that was Dr. Michael Baden. MR. a: Okay. And they mentioned, they told the OIG that, when they spoke with you, that you needed information from the correctional officer who found Jeffrey Epstein, before you could make the determination on cause of death, and instead of waiting on that information, you actually moved forward and made a determination anyway as suicide. MS. Ha: So, what I did was, we attempted to get the information from the correctional officer, and I also, I wanted to go and see the cell. They wouldn't allow that. I wanted to see some film footage. I was allowed to do that. So, there were a couple of different things I wanted to do before I could ascertain whether or not -. You know, and mostly, in LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113262

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE this case, it was being thorough. If he had been a less high-profile person who there weren’t people wanting to kill, I would have probably called it a hanging on the day of autopsy. But this was thoroughness that made me look for these things before I called it a suicide. MR. a: Understood. MS. a: Yeah. It was pretty clear cut. MR. a: What information did you need from the C.O.s? Like, if you ended up getting to talk to them. MS. a: So, what I ideally would have liked to know was, how was he hanging? And was this thing that they gave me the actual ligature? So, I still don’t think we really know that, or at least I'm not as convinced as I would like to be. But that was what I sort of -. Was he fully hanging? Where was he hanging? That kind of stuff. MR. a: Okay. I just realized that there’s one other picture I wanted to show you. MS. aa: Oh, good. MR. a: This is INV scene 007. If LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 44 EFTA00113263

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

ow oO wo wo LIMITED OFFICIAL USE you notice, that’s a CPAP machine that was assigned to - that was given to Mr. Epstein. MS. aa: can you show -? I'm not seeing. You need to be -- MR. QJ: 9 Yeah. MR. aa: Oh, sorry. MS. a: -- more width. MR. a: I apologize. MR. aa: We can't see it, a. Yeah. MR. a: How about now? MS. aa: Yes. MR. a: Now, this, it looks like it was, this is the CPAP machine that was given to - assigned to Jeffrey Epstein. And this looks like the cord was inside his room. Is it possible that this cord could have done it also? Been used as a noose. MS. a: No. No. The furrow is too broad for a cord. I’ve seen plenty of cord furrows, and this is nothing like this. This is definitely a furrow from some type of fabric. MR. | : Okay. MS. a: And not a rope. LIMIT OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113264

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 46 MR. a: Perfect. Okay. Okay. MS. Ha: Excuse me. MR. a: Is there anything -? Is it something that C.0O.s could have said to you, if you ever got a chance to interview them, that could possibly affect your conclusion on cause of death? MS. a: I would have been a little bit more circumspect if there had been another inmate in there with him who had made threats. But even knowing that, that would have been more thoroughness, because this doesn't look anything like a strangulation. So, it would have been more for completeness rather than a big factor in making the determination. MR. a: Okay. Based on all the -- MR. Ha: So, the -- MR. a: -- go ahead. Sorry. MR. Ha: -- sorry. Just to follow up o that. So, in the instance, you know, hypothetical, that there was another inmate in that cell, is what you saw possibly consistent, or would be consistent with, like, this other inmate helping or assisting this person hanging themselves? Would that be a possibility? LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113265

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE MS. Ha: No. What it would be more consistent with is if the other inmate benignly neglecting, maybe at the request of Mr. Epstein, the fact that he was hanging. You know, don’t call them until I'm stuck shaking or whatever. You know? Yeah. MR. a: Versus naturally assisting (Indiscernible *00:42:31) -. MS. a: It doesn't look anything like a strangulation, or an -. You can't really assist someone to hang unless they don’t have the use of their arms and legs. Otherwise, you really can't do that. MR. a: Okay. Makes sense. Okay. Thank you. MS. |g Yeah. MR. Ha: I'm sorry, a. I cut you off. MR. a : No, no. That explains it. Based on all the information you have now, is it your professional opinion that Jeffrey Epstein’s cause of death was suicide? MS. a: That’s his manner of death. His cause of death is hanging, and his manner of death is suicide. LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 47 EFTA00113266

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

ow oO 10 11 12 13 14 17 18 19 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE MR. a : Okay. Now, I have to ask the last question. Did anyone attempt to coarse or bribe you into ruling Jeffrey Epstein’s death as a suicide? MS. a: No. No. There were a lot of rumors, but no. MR. QJ: «okay. sac -- MS. aaa: Yeah. MR. a: -- anything else? MR. a: Yeah. So, just to follow up on that. Any calls, media, family members, that type of thing, that were unwanted, that you received after his death? MS. aa: I actually did a lot of ducking of the media -- MR. a: Okay. MS. aa: -- and refusing to speak to people. I did have some very unpleasant calls with his family, because they weren’t happy with the determination of suicide. But it is what it is. MR. a: Now, if it was not Jeffrey Epstein, would you, in the normal course of business, speak to the family members as often as you did in this case? a fo LIMITED OFFICIAL 48 EFTA00113267

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE MS. Ha: Absolutely. That’s one thing that we definitely do as medical examiners. It’s a very important part of my job, is conveying the findings to families. The only times that I do not do that is when it’s a homicide, for sure, and there is an ongoing investigation, or a case that’s suspicious for homicide, then I don’t talk to family members because sometimes they’re the perpetrators. But when it’s as clear cut as this, I always talk to the families. As much as they need to talk to me. MR. Ha: Sure. That’s all I had, a. MR. a: That’s all that I have, too. Is there anything else? Any information you think that might help us in our investigation, or you think wasn’t shared in the report, that might be useful to us? You want to share with us? MS. a: No. I think I put everything relevant in the report, to make it as clear as possible. MR. a: Is there any questions that you think I should have asked that I didn't ask LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 49 EFTA00113268

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

ow oO wo uw fon) wo No oO ine) LIMITED OFFICIAL USE wi =] Oo K w QQ Q K (D n 7] MS. a: No. I think you were very MR. BJ: 9sac BB, anything? MR. QJ: And BB, 2 quick question for you. We have the whole report with the exhibits and e 1g? MR. a: Yes. You know what? Let me show it. Let me show it to you just to confirm. Let me present this. Bear with me. I just want to make sure. Okay. Can you guys see this? MS. a: Yes. MR. a: I think Attorney | can speak more about it because it looks like she’s the one that signed off on it. MR. QJ: 9 (Indiscernible *00:45:29). MS. a : Unfortunately - yeah - I'ma little bit of a disa antage because I am doing this call from my phone, so the images are tiny. MR. Let me zoom. Is it any 7 better? 7 MS. LIMITED IAL USE EFTA00113269

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 51 MR. a: I think this is a cover letter. This is the letter that we sent to you. And -- MS. QJ: 9 Right. MR. a : -- where you sent us the report. MS. a : And that was approved. That green stamp is an approval from my office. MR. a: Okay. And I'm just going to scroll down slowly, for both of you guys, just to make sure, and especially Dr. ia. Let me know if you see that there is any records or documents missing, that stands out, that you can only see. MS. a: Let me just say, it’s going to be very hard to determine that. I mean, all I can tell you, I mean, it’s sort of more a presumption of regularity. If we issued a certified copy of the medical examiner case file, that means it’s been really carefully vetted and that it has been certified to be a true and exact copy of that file. I am not going to be able to give you any information, on this call, that would be any different from that. LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113270

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE MR. a: No problem. As long as this is the document you sent me, and you say this has everything in it. MS. a: It certainly -- MR. a : That’s fine. MS. aa: -- it certainly looks like it. It came to you from our Records Department, but I specifically remember approving the release by the Records Department, and it is clear that, you know, that we okayed it, and that it came from the Office of Chief Medical Examiner. And as you know, there is that little red sort of self- protective note that I okayed the release by whoever put the note there. So, it seems to me that this looks exactly like what we would have issued to you. There is no way for me to verify that, looking at it, and I couldn't even do that on, you know, a giant plasma screen, either. MR. aa: Understood. That’s all. That’s all. As long as you can say that this is the record. SAC a. do you have anything else on that? MR. a: No. I appreciate that. I LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 52 EFTA00113271

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE just want to (Indiscernible *00:47:31) and say that we have the whole report (Indiscernible *00:47:37). So, it sounds like we do. So, thank you. MS. a: Yeah. I mean, if there seems to be some gap to you, or there is a reference to something that you don’t have, certainly come back to us, but I assume that, by now, you would have noticed anything that clear. MR. a : Perfect. Anything else, SAC ma: MR. a: Nothing further. Thank you. MR. a: Dr. i. again, thank you so much for taking the time, and we appreciate you talking to us. If there is anything else you think that, hey, you wanted, you think that we didn't ask, or you think you want to share with us, feel free, through Attorney a. to reach back out to us, and we’ll do another quick interview to catch up on it. MS. a: Sure. MR. a: And we might have follow up questions. If we do, be patient with us. We might come back to you and say, hey, we just need another quick interview. LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 53 EFTA00113272

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

N WwW wo WwW wo S) ins) Nh No oy Ns LIMITED OFFIC MS. Sure. MR. If that’s fine. 7 a: Ms. QJ: 9 You know where to find us. a: 7 MR. And this is The p.m. on May 315t, 2022. I am ending the recording. LIMITED AL USE EFTA00113273

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

LIMITED OFFICIAL USE CERTIFICATE I hereby certify that the foregoing pages represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Interview of iy Lucaren. ese Eta Brianna Rose Burton, Transcriber LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 55 EFTA00113274

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

Ca) Able - 3:8, 24:5, 24:19, 51:23 Above - 14:1, 27:16 Abraded - 14:20 Abrasion - 14:20, 16:21 Abrasions - 22:25, 40:1 Across - 20:15, 40:4 Activity - 24:2 Actual - 20:22, 26:18, 44:16 Address - 50:1 Affect - 46:6 Against - 18:19, 19:13, 40:21 Agent - 3:1, 3:5, 3:18, 3:21, 3:25, 4:3, 54:10 HM - 12:20. 12:22, 13:1 + —S 13:11 = 12:21 Agree - 4:18 Ah - 32:20 Ahead - 46:18 Aid - 18:11 Allow - 43:20 Allowed - 43:22 + 12:7, 12:8 Amount - 7:1 Anthropologist - 24 122, 25:19 Anyway - 43:16 Anywhere - 16:25, 36:1 Apologize - 45:8 Apparatus - 36:4 Appeared - 25:18, 28:7 Applying - 5:18 Appreciate - 52:25, 53:14 Approval - 51:8 Approved - 51:7 Approving - 52:9 Area - 32:3, 34:11 Aren't - 8:7, 16:1, 28:16 Arm - 16:21 Arms - 32:2, 47:12 Arrive - 11:16 Art - 5:13, 5:14 Ascertain - 43:24 Assigned - 11:18, 11:19, 11:21, 11:24, 45:2, 45:15 Assist - 12:10, 47:11 Assisted - 25:11 Assisting - 12:13, 46:24, 47:7 Associated - 15:13 Attack - 22:16, 22:17 Attempt - 25:10, 25:14, 26:5, 26:10, 48:2 Attempted - 39:7, 43:18 Attorney - 50:14, §3:18 Augmented - 40:20, 40:23 August - 10:25 Autopsies - 8:21, 9:3, 9:13, 9:16, 10:1 Autopsy - 5:9, 8:18, 8:21, 10:23, 10:24, 11:18, 11:25, 12:11, 12:14, 13:14, 16:16, 17:25, 20:19, 24:21, 27:7, 28:13, 37:14, 43:3, 44:5 Aware - 11:12, 11:14 Awful - 9:6 Bachelor's - 5:11, 5:12 Back - 5:14, 7:21, 7:24, 9:21, 14:23, 17:6, 20:22, 20:23, 21:3, 22:13, 32:4, 34:16, 53:8, 53:19, 53:24 Background - 5:8, 8:10 Baden - 43:8 Bag - 33:5, 36:22 Bagged - 36:19 Bar - 19:19 Based - 13:13, 13:15, 25:18, 27:1, 38:9, 46:16, 47:20 Basis - 6:23 Bear - 11:3, 27:13, 50:10 Beautiful - 20:11 Become - 7:7, 11:12, 26:24 Behind - 21:6 Benignly - 47:2 Big - 8:5, 28:15, 40:2, 46:15 Bit - 18:3, 35:2, LIMITED OFFICIAL LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 46:8, 50:20 Blanking - 12:21 Bleeding - 17:4 Bleeds - 15:4 Blonchyness - 29:1 0 Blood - 15:1 Blotchy - 29:16 Board - 6:24 Body - 39:23, 40:4, 41:3 Bone - 17:15, 18:5, 18:8, 18:18, 18:22, 19:10, 20:4, 24:13 Bones - 24:14, 24:20 Both - 18:20, 19:15, 51:10 Bottom - 31:17 Box - 19:5 Break - 7:22, 18:2, 19:14, 24:18 Bribe - 48:3 Broad - 45:20 Broke - 31:25 Broken - 16:24, 24:12, 25:12, 25:14 Brooklyn - 5:20, 6:4, 6:11 Brother - 42:24 Brought - 32:14, 33:5, 36:10, 36:13 Bruising - 16:25, 27:9, 28:9, 28:12, 28:15, 39:13, 39:21, 39:23, 39:25, 40:7, 41:2 Bunch - 22:24 Burst - 15:2 Business - 48:24 Butterfly - 19:7, 19:9 Buttocks - 31:17, 31:19 Bystander - 28:6 a Call - 47:5, 50:21, 51:24 Called - 31:4, 32:14, 44:4, 44:6 Calls - 48:11, 48:18 Cameras - 26:19 Canada - 26:14 Candidate - 36:11 Can't - 23:6, 24:6, 31:12, 35:25, 45:9, 47:10, 47:13 Capillaries - 15:2 Care - 26:5 USE Carefully - 51:20 Cartilage - 17:14, 19:1, 19:15, 20:4, 25:12 Case - 11:7, 11:10, 16:18, 17:24, 17:25, 24:7, 41:19, 44:1, 48:25, 49:7, 51:19 Cases - 10:7, 10:10, 23:14 Catch - 53:20 Cause - 9:17, 27:22, 43:14, 46:6, 47:22, 47:24 Caused - 25:15, 36:8, 37:9, 37:13, 38:8, 38:12, 40:16, 40:17 Cell - 30:6, 30:8, 30:14, 30:21, 39:6, 42:9, 43:20, 46:22 Center - 8:14, 9:25 Centrally - 18:18, 19:21 Certain - 7:1 Certainly - 9:9, 40:19, 52:4, 52:6, 53:7 Certified - 6:24, 51:19, 51:21 Chair - 23:23 Chance - 30:5, 30:16, 46:5 Change - 23:18 Charge - 3:18, 4:3 Check - 11:1, 41:18 Chief - 3:19, 4:8, 4:12, 6:6, 6:8, 6:14, 6:19, 7:4, 52:12 Chin - 23:1 Chosen - 11:25, 12:3 Circulation - 14:24 Circumferential - 2 1:4, 21:7, 21:16, 21:20, 21:24 Circumspect - 46:9 Circumstantial - 21 9 City - 3:9, 4:7, 4:11, 8:6, 10:14 Clarify - 10:13 Classic - 21:4 Clawing - 24:7 Clinically - 26:3 Close - 34:24 Cloth - 37:9 Coarse - 48:2 Collection - 26:15 College - 5:10 Columbia - 5:16 Combined - 20:11 Come - 6:13, 9:21, 11:23, 16:10, 16:15, 22:13, 53:8, 53:24 Coming - 7:4, 30:19 Command - 7:21 Commonly - 28:3 Compare - 35:7 Complete - 7:11, 24:8 Completed - 5:13, 6:17, 5:20 Completeness - 46: 14 Completing - 6:16 Compression - 17: 8, 17:9, 17:19 Conclusion - 9:3, 16:10, 16:15, 46:6 Concrete - 40:5 Conduct - 8:18 Conducted - 3:12, 3:16, 8:22, 9:13, 10:1, 10:23, 24:20 Conducting - 8:13, 8:17, 8:20 Conferencing - 3:1 7 Confirm - 50:10 Confusion - 22:7 Conjunctiva - 14:3 Consciousness - 2 3:24, 26:8 Consistent - 13:24, 15:8, 15:10, 17:17, 19:24, 19:25, 20:20, 21:8, 26:23, 28:16, 37:13, 39:13, 46:22, 46:23, 47:2 Contraband - 41:24 Contributed - 42:16 Contusions - 23:10 Conveying - 49:4 Convinced - 22:4, 44:18 Convulsing - 16:22 Cooper - 5:13 Cops - 36:24 Copy - 51:19, 51:22 Cord - 20:25, 45:16, 45:17, 45:20 Corner - 31:15, 32:13, 35:20 Correction - 10:15, 32:15, 33:15, 36:6 Correctional - 8:14, 30:17, 43:12, 43:19 Cost - 33:11 Couldn't - 31:3, EFTA00113275

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

31:6, 39:9, 52:18 Counsel - 3:20, 4:7 County - 6:4, 6:11, 8:3, 9:8, 10:11 Couple - 8:25, 9:19, 12:19, 13:11, 29:24, 43:23 Course - 48:23 Courses - 5:18 Cover - 42:4, 51:1 CPAP - 45:1, 45:14 CPR - 32:8, 32:16 Create - 33:19 Created - 40:24 Credentials - 3:7 Credits - 7:1 Crew - 33:3 Custody - 10:10, 26:18 Cut - 15:1, 18:1, 27:16, 40:10, 44:10, 47:17, 49:10 Cuts - 27:9, 27:25, 41:2 Cutter - 31:22, 40:9, 40:10, 40:13 a Damage - 20:3, 24:19, 25:15, 40:17, 40:23 Damaged - 24:15 Dane - 8:3, 9:8, 10:11 Date - 3:15 Day - 11:7, 11:8, 11:10, 11:15, 11:16, 44:4 Dead - 28:17, 39:22, 40:4 Deal - 9:12, 42:23 Death - 4:15, 8:16, 9:17, 11:13, 11:15, 16:11, 42:17, 43:14, 46:7, 47:22, 47:23, 47:24, 47:25, 48:3, 48:13 Death/ - 38:13 Deaths - 9:12, 9:24, 10:2, 10:18 Debris - 22:22, 23:1 Deceased - 29:1 Decide - 36:25 Deep - 14:18 Defensive - 22:15, 22:18, 22:19, 41:4 Definitely - 13:17, 45:22, 49:2 Degree - 5:11, 5:12 Department - 3:5, 3:13, 10:14, 52:8, 52:10 Depiction - 29:8 Describe - 25:19, 25:20, 39:9 Described - 29:9 Desk - 36:4 Detected - 41:22 Detention - 9:24 Determination - 9:1 7, 20:9, 43:13, 43:16, 46:15, 48:20 Determine - 24:23, 51:16 Difference - 35:16 Different - 8:8, 16:7, 17:18, 20:3, 28:4, 31:8, 37:24, 43:23, 51:24 Difficulty - 26:2 Dig - 23:18 Disadvantage - 50: 20 Discoloration - 14: 23 Distributed - 16:2 DNA - 36:14, 37:1 Doctor - 7:7, 9:23, 24:12, 26:7, 29:7 Document - 52:2 Documents - 51:13 Doesn't - 21:19, 25:19, 32:18, 35:14, 37:17, 42:4, 46:12, 47:9 DOJ/OIG - 3:18, 3:24, 4:14, 4:19 Door - 30:14, 30:15 Double - 41:18 Downstate - 5:20 Downward - 20:15 Dr - 3:9, 4:9, 4:23, 10:21, 12:6, 43:7, 51:11, 53:13 Dragged - 32:2, 32:4, 32:7 Dried - 40:1 Ducking - 48:15 Dumb - 14:9 Dying - 23:19 es Ear - 21:6 Earlier - 29:9, 37:8 Early - 30:19 Earn - 7:7 Earned - 5:21 Easily - 23:7, 38:7 Education - 5:10 Efforts - 28:2 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE Elsewhere - 7:20 EMS - 33:2 Ending - 54:11 English - 14:11 Entered - 39:6 Entire - 7:3 Entrance - 34:10 Envelope - 24:4 Epstein's - 8:21, 11:18, 16:11, 30:24, 35:9, 38:12, 39:6, 40:17, 42:23, 47:22, 48:3 Estimate - 8:23, 9:2, 9:16 Events - 4:15 Everyone - 3:22, 4:13 Everything - 14:8, 32:22, 49:21, 50:7, 52:3, 54:8 Evidence - 27:2, 33:7, 36:19, 36:23, 38:24 Examination - 13:1 6, 27:7, 39:12 Examiner - 3:9, 3:19, 4:8, 4:11, 4:12, 6:6, 6:9, 6:15, 6:20, 7:5, 43:2, 43:6, 51:19, 52:12 Examiners - 49:2 Examiner's - 7:17, 8:3 Exhibits - 50:7 Expected - 23:5 Expecting - 11:15 Explain - 31:6, 35:16 Explained - 31:7 Explains - 47:19 Explanation - 30:5, 30:11, 39:10 Extensively - 26:15 Eyes - 15:5, 16:5 a Fabric - 45:23 Face - 17:2, 28:11, 29:5, 29:11 Facial - 14:2 Facility - 9:25 Fall - 39:6, 39:11 Falls - 39:13 Families - 49:4, 49:11 Family - 28:25, 48:11, 48:19, 48:24, 49:8 Far -41:1 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE Fashion - 18:16, 19:22 Favor - 14:5 Federal - 10:18 Feeding - 30:18, 30:20 Feel - 53:18 Feeling - 21:21 Feet - 31:18 Fell - 32:1 Fellowship - 6:2, 6:4, 6:17, 7:15 Field - 3:6, 4:4, 5:23 Fight - 24:5 Fighting - 22:22 File - 51:20, 51:22 Film - 43:21 Filmed - 26:21 Films - 26:16, 26:22 Final - 6:1 Find - 54:3 Findings - 17:2, 49:4 Fine - 5:13, 52:5, 54:2 Fingernails - 16:24, 22:22 First - 25:25, 26:5 Fixed - 21:18, 22:3, 22:10, 38:3, 38:19 Floor - 30:22, 39:20, 40:5 Florence - 3:20, 4:6 Fluride - 14:1 Follow - 26:7, 37:7, 46:19, 48:10, 53:22 Footage - 43:21 Forensic - 6:2 Formally - 29:1 Forward - 23:23, 43:15 Found - 5:22, 25:7, 30:17, 31:9, 31:21, 41:16, 43:12 Fracture - 25:22 Fractured - 18:21, 18:22, 19:15, 19:18, 24:13, 24:24 Fractures - 17:13, 17:16, 17:21, 18:19, 19:20, 24:25, 25:2 Fracturing - 17:18, 20:18 Frame - 26:11 Free - 53:18 Frequently - 14:4 Front - 11:1, 17:5, 41:19 Fully - 21:3, 21:7, 44:20 Function - 18:11 Furrow - 13:24, 14:1, 14:14, 20:12, 45:19, 45:22 Furrows - 45:21 Further - 39:3, §3:12 a Gap - 53:6 Gathered - 27:3 Gave - 33:17, 34:1, 36:19, 44:16 General - 3:6, 3:14, 3:20, 4:7 Get - 5:8, 11:17, 15:2, 15:21, 15:25, 25:8, 40:5, 43:18 Gets - 19:12 Giant - 52:19 Give - 8:22, 9:16, 30:4, 30:11, 30:18, 34:23, 39:9, 51:23 Given - 33:2, 45:2, 45:14 Go - 8:1, 14:6, 30:5, 30:7, 32:4, 34:16, 41:22, 42:21, 43:20, 46:18 Good - 21:12, 21:14, 21:15, 21:22, 29:8, 44:24, 54:8 Got - 16:9, 20:16, 30:16, 36:5, 46:5 Graduate - 5:16 Graduated - 7:8 Granny - 22:3, 38:4, 38:18 Green - 51:8 Ground - 31:18, 31:19, 32:1, 39:7, 39:12 Guard - 39:5 Guess - 24:18, 41:15 Guessing - 25:3 Guys - 36:24, 50:11, 51:10 Gynecology - 5:22 a Hand - 4:24, 12:16 Hands - 16:21 Hang - 19:13, 21:1, 23:15, 26:10, 26:19, 26:23, 41:19, 47:11 Hangings - 14:4, 23:22, 26:17, 26:18, 26:21, 40:20 EFTA00113276

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

Hangman's - 21:15, 21:22, 37:23, 38:20 Hangs - 21:1 Happy - 48:19 Hard - 51:16 Head - 14:7 Healing - 25:20, 25:23 Help - 49:17 Helping - 46:24 Hemorrhages - 14: 2, 14:25, 15:3, 17:3, 29:18 Hemorrhagic - 40:1 Hemorrhaging - 17: 6 He's - 20:16, 23:4 Hey - 53:16, 53:24 High - 44:2 Hired - 43:2 Homicidal - 16:6, 18:16 Homicide - 49:6, 49:8 Honestly - 10:3 Horns - 19:8 Horseshoed - 18:10 Hospital - 6:4 Hundred - 9:9, 9:10, 27:1, 32:22 HE - 3:20, 4:5, 4:6, 10:13, 10:17, 50:14, 50:17, 50:19, 50:25, 51:4, 51:7, 51:15, 52:4, 52:6, 53:5, 53:18, 54:1, 54:3, 54:8 Hyoid - 17:14, 18:3, 18:5, 18:18, 18:22, 19:10, 20:4, 24:13, 25:12 Hypothetical - 46:2 1 a I'd - 10:4 Ideally - 44:14 Mi 5:4, 9:21, 22:13 Images - 50:21 Imagine - 23:6 Impact - 28:11 Impacts - 28:16 Impaired - 16:19 Important - 49:3 Incomplete - 17:8 Indication - 24:14 Indiscernible - 10:1 4, 29:2, 31:1, 34:5, 41:9, 47:8, 50:18, §3:1, 53:2 Initial - 25:14, 31:12, 34:9, 36:13, 38:25 Initially - 11:22, 12:3, 25:5 Injuries - 23:6, 25:10 Inmate - 4:15, 8:14, 8:15, 39:5, 46:10, 46:21, 46:24, 47:2 Inside - 17:15, 19:7, 28:1, 28:13, 45:16 Inspector - 3:6, 3:14 Instructed - 36:17 Intentional - 24:1 Internally - 17:2 Interview - 3:8, 3:16, 3:21, 4:18, 4:22, 4:25, 22:14, 30:16, 46:5, 53:20, 53:25 Intoxicants - 16:19 INV - 30:1, 33:8, 34:7, 34:14, 34:24, 39:1, 44:25 Investigating - 36:2 4 Investigation - 3:14 » 4:14, 17:22, 17:25, 49:7, 49:17 Investigators - 33:2 Involves - 15:20 Irrelevant - 37:3 Island - 9:7 Isn't - 21:3, 21:19, 21:23, 26:13, 33:17 Issued - 51:18, 52:17 It'll - 18:17 I've - 7:2, 9:8, 16:18, 23:21, 24:7, 27:3, 45:20 Jeffrey - 4:15, 8:15, 8:21, 10:23, 16:10, 20:6, 32:15, 42:23, 43:12, 45:15, 47:21, 48:3, 48:22 Job - 7:20, 49:3 Joints - 18:17 Judicial - 26:17 Julie - 12:18 July - 25:4, 25:16 Jump - 8:5 Jumped - 22:12 Justice - 3:5, 3:13 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE a Kareen - 12:6 Kidding - 8:7 Kill - 44:3 King's - 6:3, 6:11 Knocked - 30:21 Knot - 21:14, 21:15, 21:16, 21:18, 21:25, 22:4, 22:11, 36:1, 37:22, 38:2, 38:9, 38:16, 38:18, 38:19, 38:20, 38:21, 38:25 Knots - 21:22, 21:23, 38:3, 38:4, 38:5, 38:22 Knowing - 46:11 Knuckles - 23:10 HE - 3:9, 4:10 Labeled - 28:20, 30:1, 33:6, 34:7 Lack - 20:11 Landed - 39:17, 39:20, 40:3 Larynx - 18:9, 19:5 Lastly - 17:13 Later - 22:13 Laying - 34:21, 35:1 Leave - 7:19 Lee - 12:18 Left - 18:21, 34:17 Legs - 30:24, 47:12 Let's - 11:4 Letter - 51:2 Level - 5:10 Licenses - 6:23 Ligature - 13:24, 14:14, 16:13, 17:11, 20:12, 20:13, 20:22, 21:13, 21:19, 21:21, 22:6, 22:7, 22:8, 22:10, 23:23, 32:14, 34:1, 40:22, 44:17 Liked - 44:15 Limp - 26:24 Linear - 22:25 Linens - 31:8 Lip - 27:17, 28:1 Local - 10:5 Long - 52:1, 52:22 Look - 10:4, 24:23, 28:12, 30:14, 35:21, 38:3, 38:4, 38:5, 44:6, 46:12, 47:9 Looked - 17:25, 22:3 Looking - 35:16, 52:18 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE Looped - 35:24 Lose - 23:24, 26:8 Lot - 9:7, 22:6, 22:8, 23:1, 31:8, 35:12, 41:7, 48:5, 48:14 Lots - 22:21 Low - 31:17 Luck - 54:8 Lung - 17:4 - 3:1, 3:4, 3:22, 3:25, 41:11, 45:9, 47:17, 49:14, 50:5, 54:10 a | Machine - 45:1, 45:14 Madison - 8:2, 8:6 Maintain - 6:22 Make - 21:2, 43:13, 49:22, 50:11, 51:11 Making - 33:25, 41:8, 46:15 Man - 23:4, 23:7, 39:5 Managed - 26:19 Manual - 17:11, 17:19, 18:23, 19:19 Many - 8:21, 9:2, 9:15 Mark - 42:22, 42:23 Marked - 13:23 Markings - 36:8, 38:8 Marks - 16:20, 37:10, 37:13 Mask - 28:5 Material - 37:9, 37:12 Mattress - 30:21, 31:2, 31:9 MCC - 8:13, 9:25 MD - 5:21 MDC - 9:24 Means - 14:16, 21:10, 36:22, 51:20 Measles - 29:17 Mechanism - 15:1 Media - 48:11, 48:15 Medication - 42:5 Medications - 41:25 Members - 48:11, 48:24, 49:8 Mess - 31:7 Metropolitan - 8:14, 9:24 Michael - 43:8 Microsoft - 3:17 Missing - 51:13 Mixture - 28:3 Mm - 13:12, 24:16, 37:25, 40:12 Morgue - 12:12, 12:19, 13:4 Morning - 11:7, 30:20 Mortuary - 28:24 Mouse - 32:5 Mouth - 14:3, 15:5, 16:5, 28:13 Move - 39:8, 41:12 Moved - 43:15 Much - 17:1, 26:13, 35:15, 39:18, 49:11, 53:14 Muscle - 17:3 Muscles - 17:4, 17:6 Mute - 4:1 CN) Nails - 23:2 Names - 12:15 Naturally - 47:7 Near - 18:17 Needed - 43:11 Neglecting - 47:3 New - 3:6, 3:8, 4:4, 4:7, 4:12, 8:5, 8:15, 10:6, 10:7 Non - 24:8 Noose - 22:1, 22:2, 22:5, 22:13, 25:7, 31:16, 31:25, 32:25, 33:11, 34:20, 34:25, 35:14, 36:13, 36:15, 37:10, 37:18, 37:23, 45:18 Nooses - 37:24 Nor - 17:5 Normal - 40:9, 48:23 Normally - 23:16 Note - 11:5, 52:14, 52:15 Noted - 26:3 Notes - 10:25 Notice - 34:10, 34:17, 45:1 a OB - 7:13 Observed - 27:7 Obstetrics - 5:22 Occur - 14:25 Office - 3:6, 3:7, 3:13, 3:19, 4:4, 4:8, 4:11, 6:5, 6:8, 6:14, EFTA00113277

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

6:19, 7:4, 18:8, 28:22, 30:2, 37:17, §1:8, 52:12 Officer - 7:17, 8:4, 30:17, 32:15, 33:16, 36:6, 43:12, 43:19 Official - 3:13, 4:14 Often - 42:7, 48:24 OIG - 43:10 Okayed - 52:11, 52:14 Old - 24:24 One - 7:19, 12:19, 13:2, 13:5, 16:21, 17:14, 17:23, 18:20, 32:23, 36:7, 36:9, 38:6, 38:11, 38:12, 38:16, 38:24, 44:23, 49:1, 50:16 Ongoing - 49:6 Opened - 42:10 Opinion - 25:1, 47:21 Opposed - 27:3 Order - 6:24, 37:1 Otherwise - 47:12 Outer - 32:3 Overhand - 38:19 Own - 22:24, 26:21, 27:4, 43:2 a Packed - 38:24 Panicked - 31:24 Particularly - 28:4, 40:2, 40:24 Path - 33:6 Pathology - 6:1, 6:2, 6:8, 6:13, 7:11, 7:14 Patient - 53:23 Pattern - 16:8, 17:16, 17:18, 17:21, 26:23 Patterns - 20:17 Peak - 20:14, 20:15, 20:16, 20:21, 21:2, 21:5 Peaked - 20:12 People - 16:18, 23:22, 24:5, 26:4, 26:8, 26:16, 26:20, 27:2, 44:3, 48:18 Percent - 27:1, 32:22 Perfect - 46:1, 53:10 Perform - 32:8 Perpetrators - 49:9 Person - 11:23, 11:24, 13:2, 15:22, 22:23, 23:17, 44:2, 46:24 Person's - 30:12 Petechiae - 14:21, 14:24, 15:15, 16:1, 16:4, 16:13, 20:17, 28:15, 29:5, 29:9, 29:12 Petechial - 14:2, 16:2 Phonation - 18:12 Phone - 20:25, 50:21 Photo - 33:14 Photographed - 28: 14 Photographer - 12: 17 Photographers - 12 13 Photographs - 30:9 Photos - 27:24, 28:20 Picture - 27:12, 28:20, 28:21, 29:4, 29:25, 30:12, 31:11, 31:12, 32:4, 33:4, 33:7, 34:3, 34:9, 34:14, 34:17, 35:8, 38:24, 44:23 Pictures - 29:24, 34:4, 37:6, 37:11 Piece - 32:12, 33:11, 33:14, 37:20 Pincher - 19:20 Pinpoint - 14:24, 15:3, 29:17 Place - 4:22, 27:9 Plasma - 52:19 Plenty - 9:9, 45:20 Plethora - 14:22, 15:16, 15:18, 15:19, 16:1, 16:13, 20:17 Points - 19:10 Possibility - 46:25 Practice - 26:11, 26:13 Practices - 40:9 Pre - 5:15, 5:17 Prescribed - 41:25 Prescription - 42:5 Present - 3:18, 43:3, 50:10 Pressed - 18:18, 19:13 Pressure - 15:20, 15:25, 17:20, 18:16, 19:25, 20:2, 29:21 Presumption - 51:1 LIMITED OFFICIAL 8 Prior - 8:12, 8:17, 8:20, 9:13, 11:15, 11:16, 25:21, 33:7 Prisoner - 9:12 Prisoners - 26:19 Pristine - 17:1 Problem - 8:12, 12:8, 12:23, 13:9, 24:10, 52:1 Professional - 47:2 1 Profile - 44:2 Protective - 52:14 Provide - 4:17, 5:9 Provided - 30:1, 32:24, 33:9 Pugilistic - 23:5 Pull - 22:23, 40:25 Pulled - 31:23, 31:24, 32:15, 33:16, 35:8, 39:8 Pulling - 40:2, 40:21 Punch - 23:8, 23:9 Purple - 14:22 Putting - 22:16, 35:24 [a] Quick - 50:5, 53:20, 53:25 Quickly - 23:24, 24:3, 32:10 es Raise - 4:23 Rarely - 15:22, 23:20, 24:6 Rash - 29:17 Rather - 46:14 Reach - 53:19 Realized - 44:22 Reasons - 38:6 Received - 37:19, 48:13 Recent - 24:25, 25:1 Recently - 7:23 Recertify - 6:25 Recognize - 29:25, 30:2 Recorded - 3:21 Recording - 3:3, 54:12 Records - 51:12, 52:7, 52:9 Recount - 13:21 Red - 29:10, 52:13 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE Refracture - 25:21 Refusing - 48:17 Regular - 42:11 Regularity - 51:18 Release - 52:9, 52:14 Rely - 30:8 Remain - 32:16 Remembers - 36:6 Report - 49:18, 49:22, 50:6, 51:6, 53:2 Reporting - 14:8 Reproducible - 27: 1 Request - 42:8, 47:3 Requisite - 5:17 Requisites - 5:17 Researched - 26:14 , 27:4 Residency - 5:21, 6:3 Resulted - 9:3, 9:17 Resuscitate - 28:18 Resuscitation - 27: 23, 28:4, 28:6 Resuscitative - 28: 2, 28:8 Ripped - 33:16, 33:17, 33:18, 33:19 Room - 22:9, 45:16 Rope - 40:11, 40:15, 45:25 Rotated - 13:4 Rotation - 11:19 Rough - 8:22 Ruling - 48:3 Rumors - 48:6 WM - 3:18, 4:2 SAC - 4:1, 8:9, 9:22, 24:10, 37:5, 38:10, 39:1, 41:9, 48:7, 50:4, 52:23, 53:10 Safe - 42:16 Saw - 16:8, 20:5, 35:8, 39:6, 39:11, 42:8, 46:22 Scene - 30:1, 33:8, 34:7, 34:24, 35:1, 39:1, 44:25 School - 5:14, 5:15, 5:16, 5:18, 5:19, 7:9 Scrape - 40:4 Scraping - 40:6, 40:7 Screen - 52:19 Scroll - 51:10 Second - 7:20, 23:17, 36:9, 37:18 Seeing - 45:4 Seen - 16:6, 22:19, 23:22, 24:7, 28:3, 39:18, 39:25, 45:20 Seize - 24:2, 26:25 Self - 52:13 Sent - 6:21, 51:2, 61:5, 52:2 Series - 38:21 Service - 7:22 Set - 34:4 Several - 9:10, 37:11 Shaking - 47:5 Shape - 36:7 Shaped - 18:8, 18:10, 19:6 Share - 27:12, 49:19, 53:17 Shared - 49:18 Sharp - 40:25 She's - 50:15 Show - 6:25, 16:16, 20:25, 27:11, 27:25, 29:23, 31:10, 34:3, 34:9, 42:11, 44:23, 45:3, 50:9 Showed - 21:13, 22:2, 33:14, 35:21, 36:3, 42:14 Showing - 28:24, 36:10, 37:20 Side - 17:14, 27:25 Signed - 50:16 Signs - 16:17 Similar - 14:25 Simply - 23:22 Single - 16:18, 42:4 Sit - 19:9, 23:15 Sits - 18:8 Skin - 14:3, 14:21, 14:23, 15:4, 15:5, 16:5, 40:6 Slide - 38:6 Sliding - 38:20 Slightly - 20:16 Slip - 21:14, 21:23, 22:11, 38:20, 38:21 Slowly - 51:10 Slump - 21:18, 23:23 Small - 15:2, 24:4, 29:17 Snap - 18:17 Snapped - 40:22 Snaps - 18:15 Sounds - 53:3 Sp - 12:7, 12:18, EFTA00113278

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

14:1, 29:10 Special - 3:1, 3:4, 3:18, 3:21, 3:24, 4:3, 54:10 Specialized - 6:20 Spell - 3:23 Spelled - 3:25 Spine - 18:19, 19:13 Squeezes - 18:14, 18:15 Stamp - 51:8 Standard - 26:9, 26:11 Standing - 30:13 Stands - 51:13 Start - 3:24, 5:7, 6:14, 24:2, 26:25, 32:16 Started - 6:19, 11:7 Starting - 4:21, 5:11 Staten - 9:7 Steadily - 11:8 Steady - 15:20 Steroid - 42:14 Sticking - 30:25, 31:2 Stood - 13:15, 41:3 Stool - 34:11, 34:15, 34:18 Stop - 23:19 Straight - 20:15 Strangled - 21:10 Strangling - 22:23, 23:7 Strangulation - 15: 14, 15:22, 16:18, 17:11, 17:12, 18:23, 19:19, 20:13, 22:21, 46:13, 47:10 Strangulations - 16 :4, 16:7 Strap - 17:3 Strip - 33:19 Structure - 19:12 Structures - 17:15 Struggle - 15:24, 16:17, 16:24 Struggled - 16:20 Struggling - 15:24 Stuck - 47:5 Studies - 5:15, 5:16 Substances - 41:24 , 42:15 Suggested - 16:23 Suicidal - 20:20 Suicide - 9:4, 9:18, 15:10, 16:11, 16:15, 20:9, 23:14, 43:16, 44:7, 47:22, 47:25, 48:4, 48:20 Suicides - 9:7, 15:9 Summary - 5:10 SUNY - 5:19 Superimposed - 24 124, 25:2 Supplementary - 7: 3 Surrounding - 4:15 Suspect - 24:9 Suspended - 35:22, 35:25 Suspension - 24:9 Suspicious - 27:8, 41:5, 49:7 Sustained - 15:20, 17:8, 17:20, 18:16, 25:9, 25:24, 29:21 Swab - 36:16 Swallowing - 18:11, 26:2 Swear - 4:24, 5:1 Switched - 5:24 Symptoms - 26:1 System - 41:17, 42:2, 42:3 Table - 34:11 Taking - 42:13, 53:14 Targeted - 42:8 Teams - 3:17 Tear - 35:5 Tearing - 36:6 Tech - 13:4 Technicians - 12:12 , 28:24 Techs - 12:19 Ten - 6:25 Terminology - 14:6 Terms - 36:7 Test - 41:15 Testing - 36:14, 36:15, 37:1, 42:4, 42:8, 42:12 Thanks - 8:11, 10:12 There's - 13:1, 24:1, 34:10, 44:23 These - 3:7, 9:23, 10:1, 17:15, 17:16, 20:10, 24:14, 28:1, 28:7, 28:10, 28:16, 36:7, 44:6 They're - 15:3, 20:14, 28:2, 49:9 They've - 28:5 Thorough - 44:1, 50:3 Thoroughness - 44 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 15, 46:12 Thousand - 8:25 Threats - 46:10 Three - 5:25, 6:7, 6:13, 7:10, 9:20 Throat - 19:7 Thyroid - 17:14, 18:25, 19:1, 19:15, 20:4, 24:13, 25:12 Tidy - 35:19 Tie - 21:13, 21:14, 21:15, 23:22 Tight - 35:11 Tighten - 38:6 Tightened - 35:11 Tightens - 21:17 Time - 3:2, 3:15, 11:3, 24:5, 25:25, 26:11, 30:20, 32:23, 53:14, 54:10 Times - 49:5 Tiny - 50:22 Tip - 18:21 Tips - 18:20, 19:14, 19:16 Today - 3:2 Today's - 3:15 Toilet - 34:15 Tongue - 18:9 Took - 7:20, 26:5, 32:19, 32:21, 33:3 Top - 19:8, 39:17, 40:3 Tops - 19:9 Tore - 35:20 Torn - 36:4 Tough - 30:11 Toxicology - 41:12, 41:14 Track - 13:7 Training - 5:22, 5:25, 6:2, 6:3, 6:5, 6:20, 6:23, 7:2, 7:3, 7:14, 7:15 Trauma - 20:11, 20:18, 24:24, 25:2, 25:25 Tries - 23:14 Truth - 4:24, 4:25 Two - 9:20, 19:8 Tying - 21:22 Tylenol - 42:10, 42:11 Types - 28:4 Typically - 13:25, 29:11 a Un - 18:16 Undergoing - 7:2 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE Understood - 44:8, §2:21 Unevenly - 19:21 Unfortunately - 50: 19 Union - 5:14 University - 5:16 Unless - 47:11 Unpleasant - 48:18 Unwanted - 48:12 Upward - 20:14, 20:16 Used - 28:5, 31:23, 37:10, 45:18 Cv) Verify - 52:18 Versed - 21:22 Versus - 17:19, 47:7 Vetted - 51:21 Via - 3:17 Victims - 22:21 Video - 3:17 View - 30:12 Violently - 26:25 Visible - 25:23 Visual - 28:20 Vitamins - 42:9 Voice - 19:5 Voluntarily - 4:17 Voluntary - 4:18 Cw) Waiting - 43:14 Walk - 16:11, 34:10 Walked - 31:5, 31:6 Wanting - 44:3 Warm - 18:7 HE - 13:10, 13:12 Wasn't - 5:23, 11:23, 11:24, 21:21, 49:18 Weekly - 6:23 Weight - 21:17 Welcome - 54:6 We'll - 53:19 We're - 5:7, 34:16, 36:17 Weren't - 44:3, 48:19 What's - 12:20 Whole - 50:6, 53:2 Width - 45:7 Will - 4:18, 9:6, 11:1, 21:2, 21:16, 27:25, 38:5, 42:11 Window - 30:15 Wings - 19:9 Wisconsin - 8:2 Wise - 17:25 Wishbone - 18:14 Witness - 39:4 Woman - 26:14 Women - 23:3 Work - 8:3 Worked - 9:8, 11:8 Working - 11:24 Wouldn't - 30:7, 39:18, 40:6, 43:20 Wounds - 22:15, 22:18, 22:19 Wow - 9:11 Wrapped - 32:1, 35:13 Wrinkled - 35:13 Yank - 40:15 Yanked - 40:14 Yanking - 40:15 Year - 5:21, 6:1, 6:17, 6:25, 7:6, 7:19, 7:22 Years - 5:25, 6:7, 6:13, 6:25, 7:10, 7:18 York - 3:6, 3:9, 4:4, 4:7, 4:12, 8:6, 8:15, 10:6, 10:7 You'd - 11:3 You'll - 22:24, 23:1, 34:17 You're - 4:1, 10:17, 19:24, 36:9, 37:12, 37:20, 40:5, 54:5 You've - 7:1, 7:16 Yup - 12:9, 31:13, 32:6, 41:22, 43:4, 50:25, 54:6 a Zoom - 50:23 Co) ‘03 - 7:14, 7:16 04 - 7:14, 7:16 "99 - 7:12 a 00:07:30 - 10:14 00:09:00 - 12:7 00:09:17 - 12:18 00:10:16 - 14:2 00:25:21 - 29:3 00:25:29 - 29:10 00:26:53 - 31:1 EFTA00113279

--=PAGE_BREAK=--

00:29:50 - 34:5 00:36:30 - 41:9 00:42:31 - 47:8 00:45:29 - 50:18 00:47:31 - 53:1 00:47:37 - 53:3 001 - 28:20 004 - 30:1 005 - 34:14 006 - 33:7, 38:24 007 - 44:25 009 - 33:8 015 - 34:24, 39:1 055 - 34:8 a 10th - 11:16, 11:23 11th - 10:24, 11:25, 12:11 1999 - 7:8 a 20 - 7:18 2001 - 7:12, 7:13 2003 - 7:13 2013 - 7:25 2014 - 7:25 2019 - 10:25 2022 - 3:2, 3:15, 54:11 23rd - 25:4, 25:16 a 3:33 - 3:3 3:34 - 3:16 31st - 3:2, 3:15, 54:11 a 4:21 - 54:10 LIMITED LIMITED OFFICIAL USE OFFICIAL USE EFTA00113280