10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL MARCH 21, 2022 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 EFTA00112639

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 APPEARANC ies) OR GENERAL co WITN te) ive) co EFTA00112640

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. QERMJ: his is Special Agent J 2 a. The recorder is now on. My name is ios) 3 | ti‘(‘iézéwr I’m a Specia 4 U.S. Department of Justice 5 General New York Field Office and 6 these are my credentials. I don’t know if you 8 MR. a: I could see. Okay. This interview with wo F 10 former Federal Bureau of Prisons employee 11 PY is being conducted as part of an 2 official U.S. Department of Justice Office of 3 the Inspector General investigation. Today’s 4 date is March 21, 2022. The time is 11:08 a.m. 5 This interview is being conducted via Zoom 16 videoconferencing as, Mr. 7 currently in Kentucky; is 8 MR a : Correct 9 MR a : Also present is DOJ/OIG 21 a. 22 me, Special Agent ae. Could 23 everyone please identify themselves for the 24 record and spell your last name? To start 25 again, I am DOJ/OIG Special Agent F EFTA00112641

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LIMITED ies) w oO co wo i=) ive) oO co 23 OFFICIAL US documents, and I am a former employee of the DOJ Federal Bureau of Prisons and particular to MCC New York. official DOJ/OIG investigation into the events this surrounding the death of Inmate Jeffrey Epstein v g on re] Gc K oO = o b i] y ty ked to voluntarily provide Will you agree to wu wu DOJ /OIG? MR. a: Just for the record I did email you two forms prior to this interview, 6-2, t one was OIG Form 3-2 the Warnings And the other form is Form EFTA00112642

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 2 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3-226/10A, which would be the Non-Disclosure Agreement, and you signed - you read both of them, signed them, but for the record I’m going to read them to you and let’s start off with the Warnings and Assurances form. The United - the form states: The United States Department of Justice Office of Inspector General Warnings and Assurances to Employee Requested to Provide Information on a Voluntary Basis. You are being asked to provide information as part of an investigation being conducted by the Office of the Inspector General. This investigation is being conducted pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978 as amended. This investigation pertains to job performance failure and security failure. This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not have to answer questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you choose not to answer questions. Any statement you wish to - you furnish may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceedings or agency disciplinary proceeding or both. The waiver states I understand the EFTA00112643

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 warnings and assurances stated above and I am willing to make a statement and answer questions. No promises or threats have been made to and no pressure or coercion of any kind has been used against me. Mr. i. you’ve read the form? MR. a: Yes, I have. MR. a: You understand the form and you agree to move forward with the interview? MR. a: Yes, I do. MR. a: And you’ve already signed the form and you sent it back to me and myself and MR. QJ: 9 Correct. mR. BJ: -- asac J will sion the document after the interview. The second form states: Department of Justice Office of Inspector General Non-Disclosure Agreement. I, a. understand that the Department of Justice Office of Inspector General OIG will allow me to review certain documents in connection with my remote interview with the OIG on March 21, 2022, in order to facilitate that remote interview. A copy of the documents shown to me during my interview with the OIG EFTA00112644

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 2 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 labeled OIG Documents will be made part of the OIG record of that interview. As a condition of being granted access to review the OIG interview documents, I agree not to make an audio or video recording of the interview, excuse me, and I also agree that until the OIG’s final report or a summary of the final report is released to the public I will not copy, photograph, discuss, or disclose any information from or about the OIG interview documents I review to anyone other than the OIG, my attorney if I have legal counsel who also executes a non-disclosure agreement with terms similar to this agreement, or other specifically authorized by the OIG after any such person executes a non-disclosure agreement with terms similar to this agreement. I further agree that even after the OIG’s final report or a summary of the final report is released to the public I will not discuss or disclose any information from or about the OIG interview documents that are not contained in or that are redacted from the publicly released final report or summary of the final report. These provisions are consistent with and EFTA00112645

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 do not supersede, conflict with, or otherwise alter the employee obligations, rights, or liabilities created by existing statute or Executive order relating to (1) classified information, (2) communications to Congress, (3) the reporting to an Inspector General or the Office of Special Counsel of a violation of any law, rule, or regulation, or mismanagement, a gross waste of funds, an abuse of authority, or a substantial and specific danger to public health or safety, or (4) any other whistleblower protection. The definitions, requirements, obligations, rights, sanctions, and liabilities created by controlling Executive order and statutory provisions are incorporate into this agreement and are controlling. Mr. i. do you understand that non- disclosure order? MR. a: I do. MR. a: And you already read the document, you signed it, and you’ve dated it. Thank you for that. MR. a : You’ re welcome. MR. a: Before I start the interview EFTA00112646

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LIMITED oO io ioe) oO oo wo OFFICIAL USE to place you under oath. Mr. please raise your right hand? Do you swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth during this interview? hand down. 1 don’t un repeat it or rephr t with your What is your current home date of birth? And what’s EFTA00112647

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a : Currently in college still pursuing a bachelor’s degree. MR. a: Which college? MR. a : Probably about a semester ago I was in Champlain College all online out of Burlington, Vermont, and I just recently transferred Gateway Community Technical College right here in my hometown of Kentucky. MR. a: And what are you pursuing your bachelor’s degree in? MR. a: Liberal arts, yeah. MR. a: Do you have an associate’s degree? MR. QJ: 9 credit wise, yes, but formerly, no. MR. a: And what did you do prior to working for the BOP? MR. a: Prior to the BOP I was a truck driver delivering fuel, oil, and stuff like that. And prior to that I was down in North Carolina where I was a correctional officer for the State of North Carolina, which is what got me my job into the BOP, my experience. MR. a: Okay. So from - since high EFTA00112648

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 11 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 school - from high school you started working for the North Carolina BOP or did you do other jobs before that? MR. a : Oh, from high school I --. MR. a: Various jobs? MR. aa: Man of many - I - man of many trades. I can’t even count how many jobs I’ve had, but my main career out of everything was truck driving. I was pretty much a truck driver. I drove all kinds of trucks and stuff like that. Then when I met my current wife back in ’08 we had moved to North Carolina to be by her family and that’s when I acquired a job with the North Carolina Department of Corrections, and then I was down there for two years and did that. We moved back to New York, which is where I went back to driving truck again while I was in the hiring process for the Bureau of Prisons. And then I ended up getting hired with the Bureau of Prisons in November of 2011, and I started at MDC Brooklyn. MR. a: How long were you at MDC Brooklyn for? MR. a: Right around two years and EFTA00112649

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 12 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 then I transferred down to FCI Estill in South Carolina, and I was there for about two years or so, got promoted to General Foreman and transferred out to FCC Hazelton, which is a complex out in West Virginia, Bruceton Mills, and I did a little over a year there and came out to MCC New York in December of 2016 is when I got to New York. MR. a: Was that your first --? MR. a: Basically, worked - what’s that? MR. a: Sorry. Was that your first time at MCC? MR. : Yes. Yep. MR. a: Okay. Go ahead. MR. a: I worked at all three - the worst three prisons in the Bureau of Prisons. MR. a: So with the BOP, once you got to MCC in 2016 is that where you spent the rest of your career with BOP at MCC? MR. a: It was. I was there - I got there in December of 2016, I think it was right before Christmas and my last day on the job was Valentine’s Day of 2019. MR. a: Okay. EFTA00112650

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LIMITED ~] wo 10 11 OFFICIAL USE 13 MR. a: And I was there for that amount of time as a General Foreman. MR. a : Do you recall your EOD date with the BOP, exact date by any chance? MR. ae: Yeah, November 6, 2011. MR. a : Okay. And when did you graduate from BOP training? MR. a: I would have to look that up. MR. BJ: ste’ remember it, don’t worry i] okay. If you don’t wu oO out that. We just - k. 0] it’s generic question we a MR. a : I was there for Super Bowl, so if I got hired in November and I was in Glynco for Super Bowl, I would say it had to have been February of ‘20. No, I’m sorry, ‘12, 2012, yeah. MR. a: So when you started with the MCC you said you were a general foreman and that was your position up until when you EFTA00112651

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LIMITED w ~] OFFICIAL USE 14 separated from the MCC in February 14, 2019? MR. a: Correct. MR. a: Okay. And what is your - after you left MCC, what is your current title and what agency do you work for? MR. a: I currently work for the General Services Administration Public Building Services, and I am a Building Manager. MR. a: Okay. While you were at the MCC as a general foreman, was that your title in 2018 and 2019? MR. a: General foreman was the internal kind of phrase. I think the position title officially OPM was Maintenance Mechanic Supervisor. MR. a: Hold on, let me write that. MR. QJ: And I was ws-4749, Grade 14, Step Five. MR. QM: 9 So official title is Maintenance Mechanic Supervisor? MR. a: Correct. MR. a: And who did you report to? MR. a: The facility manager. MR. a: Who was the facility manager at that point? EFTA00112652

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 15 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a: And when did Mr. ; - my understanding is Mr. | retired from MCC. When did he - according to your recollection, when did he retire from the MCC? MR. aa: I would probably have to say - I don’t know the exact dates because his exit was kind of unique. He didn’t actually initially retire; he went out on some kind of other type of leave and eventually it’s to my understanding he ended up retiring. But when he had went out all communication stopped with everybody with him. Nobody - he never kept in touch with anybody. He never reached out. But MR. a: When was that? MR. a: -- I really don’t know what - hey, I don’t know his exact date, but I would probably want to say that I was there for almost maybe just under or right around or another year after he had left. I don’t think it was that much because there was several other people locally that had filled in including me for his position. MR. a: So you recall that other EFTA00112653

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 people filled in his position while he was gone while you were still there? MR. a: Correct. MR. a : Okay. So do you believe he left in 2019 or 2018? MR. aa: I really honestly couldn’t tell you. I do remember --. MR. a : I think what | is trying to ask is not his official retirement date but around when did he leave the MCC and communication with him stopped. I think you said -- MR. a : Yes. MR. QJ: -- it was approximately a year before you left? MR. a: Yeah. The only thing I can tell you - I don’t really know the dates. The only thing I know from what I recall is Mr. FY had just went to Denver, Colorado, for some kind of facilities manager conference training and he had never returned back to the institution once he went to that training or conference or whatever it was. It had something to do with facility managers all going out there. And all I know is that when 16 EFTA00112654

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 17 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 he went out there, he went there for a week or so, and he never returned to the institution after that. MR. a : Okay. MR. a : It was MR. a : Do you know why he left, what happened? MR. a : I have no idea. I have no idea. I couldn’t tell you. I mean, there was a lot of rumors, but I just know that when he went to that training, it was like he went home after that. He never came back to the institution or that conference, whatever. MR. QJ: Now, do you know if it was personal reasons, medical, or administrative? MR. a: I have no idea why he didn’t come back although he did make medical issues known to us on the job, that he had some medical issues. MR. a: Okay. And you said a few people filled in the position. So his title you said was Facility Manager, right? And what, was he your direct supervisor? MR. a: He was, yep. EFTA00112655

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LIMITED No No No ies) w co ive) co wo ion) OFFICIAL USE 18 MR. a: Okay. And who does the facility manager report t MR. ae : The Warden of Operations. ssociate Warden MR. QJ: 9 And who was of Operations in end of 2018 if you recall? MR. So we had three in the time that I was there, and I believe P| worked under all three of them. So there was | one that was there prior to me leaving was Po or aa. They called him a. but I believe his real name was Re. a: ~ performed - they were the AWO they call it, AW of Operations, which oversaw the Facilities th o rh Department, and that’s acility manager And when Mr. fs he retired, let me clarify this, this is when he stepped away for leave purposes, do you recall who took for him initially? Sc ah. So the warden at the m EFTA00112656

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 19 w ~] ive) time which I can’t remember which one it was because there was so much staff that came and went throughout this whole thing, that one time it was the executive assistant who was told to oversee the department, and then at another time the AW oversaw the department. MR. a: When you say “executive MR. a: (Indiscernible *00:17:56). MR. a: -- who was that? MR. a: So he oversaw it for a little MR. a: He did, yes. MR. a: Okay. And then who was the next person? a. He was told to oversee it. And then there was a little bit of a stint where, you know, I could just informally absorbed a lot of his job duties just to get the department functioning, but I was never actually promoted or paid or anything like that that actually - I was never formally designated as acting or anything like that, I just had to do some of EFTA00112657

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 20 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 the facility manager functions in order to have the department operational. So I would get my go-ahead for - to do those functions. They would - they oversaw it or approved by either PF or | | | at the time. MR. a : So they gave you the go-ahead and you went ahead and completed the functions. Do you recall when exactly this time period was when you acted? MR. a: I wasn’t really designate - I wasn’t really acting, I was just - if I had to do - if I had to get something done that a facility manager would normally have to do, I would just go to the - whatever time period it was, if fF was over the department or if | | | was over the department, I would have to go to them and say, “Hey, listen, can I go ahead and do this? Can you give me the approval, sign off on it?” and then I would actually do the act. MR. a : Okay. Bear with me a second. Let’s see. Maybe this might help -- I have a SigNet contract here, right? And it’s multiple questions will be on the SigNet contract -- EFTA00112658

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 21 w ~] MR. a: Yeah. MR. a: -- and bear with me. I’m going to see if I can share my screen here. This document that I’m showing you, can you see it? vR. EJ: No. MR. QJ: why is this - how about now? MR. a: I got something coming up. Yep, I could see it. MR. a: Okay. So this document that I’m showing you is - it says, “MCC New York.” It says, “Solicitation Contract Order for Commercial Items Offered to Complete Blocks 12, 17, 23, 24, and 30.” MR. QR: 9s vep. MR. a: And it says, “Requisition Number 1064-18.” mR. BR: 9 vep. MR. a: This is just for the record. I’m just reading it, just the top part, so we know which document this is. The Contract Number states GS-O7F as in Frank-0322T, and the Award Effective Date is 09/21/2018. Do you recall -- MR. QJ: 9 Okay. EFTA00112659

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 22 1 MR. a: -- this document at all? 2 MR. a: I don’t see that document, ies) no. 4 MR. ae: See over here. But it’s not under the w a 6 I don’t recall ever 7 the document. 8 is part - Section 15. 9 10 Correct roel “Delivered to Federal Bureau of Prisons MCC New N ive) point of contact. Uh-huh. t oO a m7 5 MR. a: Now, if we scroll down a bit. : a: 7 We’re going to scroll down to co Page 6 on this document. 9 MR. a: Correct. a: 21 facilities manager. Does this jog your memory 23 MR. ae: I do. I was always - when 24 | had left, I was pretty much assumed the 25 facilities manager. Like I said, I was never EFTA00112660

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 23 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 formally promoted or even temporarily entered that position, nor was I ever designated as acting. So the fact that that says facility manager, I don’t know why or who put that there because I was always a general foreman. I was never, ever in the role of a facility or with full title, whether temporary or permanent, was never a facility manager. MR. a: Okay. MR. QE: MR. a: I was never even formally designated as acting, they just pretty much said, “There’s no facility manager, Jj is next in the chain of command,” so they just referred to me as it. That’s what I’m assuming whoever typed this up. MR. a: I know it’s been about three, four years. I know it’s kind of tough remembering some of this stuff, that’s why we trying to pull - we try to pull documents where we believe it could help you. MR. QJ: §9=Right. MR. a: I know we have an email. I don’t know if this will help a little bit too. EFTA00112661

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LIMITED w fos) oo its) OFFICIAL USE 24 I believe, the SIS Department at the time. MR ae: And was -- MR a: He was like the lead MR. ae: He was a communications technician that I supervised in the Facilities Department. mention through the a. Is that - that’s your signature, ym, it General Foreman-Acting Facili Manager? EFTA00112662

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 25 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a: So I know this is in January 4*®, I know you mentioned you were always under the title of General Foreman, but you were also not officially acting, but you were still doing the job. Does that help at all jog your memory? MR. a: Right. So an email went out by the AW telling all the department heads that when | had left that I would be running the Facilities Department until a replacement was found, hence why I would assume the acting part went into my signature line. MR. a : Got it. And do you know when this email went out? MR. a: That looks like a month before I left according to the date. MR. a: No, no, I meant - you said there was an email that went out saying - from the AW saying that you would be acting --. MR. a: Oh. Oh, yeah, I don’t - I couldn’t - it’d have to have been - it was shortly after - it might have even been from the warden if I’m not mistaken, which was i. because I remember whatever happened with | down in Colorado and why he didn’t EFTA00112663

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 26 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 come back I remember that the Warden | was very, very upset with whatever was going on, and I just remember somebody, I can’t recall exactly who - | came down to the office, to my office, and spoke to me personally and told me that he would like me to just hold things down until they figure out things, what was going to happen with a. and see what was going to happen. And then I remember an email going out telling all department heads that I would be - to see me for any facilities-related issues -- MR. a : Okay. MR. QJ: 9 -- because QJ was no longer there. MR. a: Okay. So according to this you were acting facility manager, but you were general foreman, but you were acting at this point. And so, on record is it possible from the time that when Warden assigned you the title to when you left were you the acting facilities manager - facility manager? MR. a : So I don’t - I would - definitely not up until the time I left because there was some butting of heads between me and EFTA00112664

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 27 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 overrode a lot of decisions that I made that I’m normally supposed to make underneath my title. So -- MR. a: Can you give us an example? MR. aa: -- at the very, very end I believe FP at the time was running the department for the most part at the time that I left. So it wasn’t the whole entire time, it was very sporadic. It was just constant change of roles and responsibilities and - but I was definitely at one point - like I said, it was like a - it was just like an informal internal, “Hey, this is JM. 8e’s going to be the facility manager until we figure out what’s “” going on,” and they fill the position, which they had not since I walked out the door. MR. a: So basically - my understanding from what you’re saying is on --. MR. a: But I guess what you would say is during this time period I would be the guy who would have - if anybody had any questions or concerns involving this contract, they would had to have I guess come to me, yeah. EFTA00112665

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 28 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a: Okay. Now, do you remember - I know you mentioned that the previously. Tell me, do you recall if there was an update or upgrade of the camera system going on in - at the MCC in 2018 or ‘19? MR. aa: Prior to this right here? MR. a : Well, ignore this document for a second. Give me - hold on, let me see. We'll come back to that document. Do you recall in general was there an upgrade happening at the MCC for the camera system? MR. a: There was an upgrade that started with a . MR. QJ: 9 Okay. MR. a: There was - from what I understand there was camera issues well - going way back well before I even got there, long before | even got there. They had recorder and decoder issues. There was a whole slew of things and I would assume - I would imagine it was probably due to the age of the institution and there was very little infrastructure upgrades and updating and stuff like that. But I remember prior to, you know, me inheriting what FY started, there was EFTA00112666

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 29 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 all kind of issues with the cameras from what I heard from internal communications and stuff like that. So | started this program, this project, at the request of higherups. I don’t really know the backdrop on that, that was in between them. And then I really did not get involved with it at all until he never came back to work. He dropped off and then I just picked up after him. MR. a: I kind of missed a key point I wanted to ask. So as a - can you differentiate the job duties between a facility manager and the general foreman? MR. a: So basically, the facility manager they keep track of the budget. They authorize expenditures. They obviously supervise me, and then I in turn supervise the subordinate staff, the wage grade trade guys. But basically, he handled the approval of projects, you know, submitted approvals for projects. He did, like, the five- and 10-year plans for the facility, authorized all the expenditures. He went ahead and sat in on all the department head meetings to give executive EFTA00112667

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 30 1 2 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 staff briefings on what’s going on in the department, progress reports, stuff like that. Listen to any concerns that they would have and then he brings it back to us. And in my job, my main job by title is literally - I was in charge of supervising, monitoring, and then the wage grade guys that were below me because I was also wage grade. The facility manager is a GS employee. I was a WS employee just like the rest of the trade guys. And my job was basically to supervise them guys, assign them work, make sure they were coming and going in the facility with the inmates, make sure that they were handling their tools and all that other stuff. I did their performance evaluations and all that other stuff. And the facility manager pretty much did all that on me. So he was my supervisor. He would evaluate me, you know, keep track of my time and all that other stuff. And that’s pretty much it. MR. QJ: 9 who were some of the employees that reported to you? You said the wage employees. Who were the employees that EFTA00112668

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 31 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 reported to you? MR. a: In the Facility Department it was the trade specific wage guys, so you had the communications technicians, engineering technicians, carpenters, plumbers, electricians, HVAC guys. And then each one of those tradesmen have a cadre of inmates that work for them, so I would go ahead - work orders would come in from all departments, you know, requests, “Hey, can you change a light bulb? Can you unclog the toilet here?” I would give that work order to the appropriate trade guy and then he would take his group of inmates and go out into the institution and fix it and close out the work order, report back to me. MR. a : Okay. Agent a. any questions on that before I move forward with the contracts? MR. a : Yes, I’m just writing down some follow-up questions. So just - can you just clarify again, when were you actually the acting facilities manager? MR. a : It was whenever they wanted me to be basically. It was sporadic and on and EFTA00112669

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 32 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 off, so --. MR. a : Yeah. I got it. You said, like, when Beckham or Ft departed they put out an email and then we saw an email that was from January of 2019 that said that you were acting facilities manager but then you said you weren’t. MR. a : Well, it was in my signature line the acting facility manager, so I think it was just never - I think I rolled with that since fe left. I think that acting part just stayed in the signature line. But there was --. MR. QJ: | After they made the notification that you were the acting facility manager, did they ever tell you that you were not the acting facility manager? MR. a: Yeah, that’s why I was saying it was - I bumped heads with executive staff sometimes because I thought a lot of the decisions that they were making weren’t in the best interest of the facility at the time. And when I say that I mean, like, infrastructure stuff, you know. And I kind of like - they didn’t like the way I prioritized certain EFTA00112670

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 33 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 things within the department. So there was some conflicts every now and again and that’s why the warden would go ahead and say, “Okay. Hey, i. you know what, you’re overseeing the Facilities Department now. Have || report to you.” And then they also did the same thing with || | at one point where he came in, which was right around the ft thing and where he was told that he was going to go ahead and - so they were like dual role. They were pretty much - your executive assistant and the facility manager and then your AWO and the facility manager. MR. QJ: | So were you still the acting facility manager and they were just overseeing what you were doing to make sure that in your acting capacity you’re doing it right? Or they --. MR. a: That’s up to interpretation. I didn’t have any decision-making power. It had to all go through them -- MR. a : But --. MR. a : -- while (Indiscernible *00:34:33). MR. a: But at least in your EFTA00112671

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 34 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 signature line you maintained the acting facility manager? MR. a: I guess. I guess I just never took it out, yeah. But --. MR. a : But was there ever anything official that went out, like there was an official email saying you’re the acting facility manager. Was there ever anything that said you’re no longer the acting facility manager or - you know what I’m saying, like --? MR. a: Yeah, no, not to my knowledge there was - because there was talks because they were dragging on the hiring of a replacement facility manager because [I case, whatever he had going on on his personal side with the Bureau they couldn’t fill the job until they finalized what was happening with him. They needed like, I guess, an end date or something like that. They needed to know when | was falling off the books in order for them to re-post the job. So there was never - it went on for so long. Like I said, it was from the point that I had walked out the door there in February of ‘19 there was still no facility manager there. EFTA00112672

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 35 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 And I also know at the time that I walked out I may have not took the word “acting” out of my signature line, but I know I wasn’t acting at that time that I had left per se. And I don’t recall ever an official email going out saying where I was acting. I remember an email going out saying to all department heads that ; was no longer around and if anybody needed anything from the facilities department to see me. MR. a : Now, were you --. MR. QJ: §«9 (Indiscernible *00:36:07). S a : Through the whole time were you a part of these meetings that you said that the facility manager would be a part of? MR. : Some of them, yes, I was. Yep. MR. a : So until the time you left you still were sitting in the meeting the facility manager would sit in then? MR. a: I was even in those meetings when the facility manager was there. We all sat in together. MR. a : Now, would you have been sitting in those meetings if you were just the EFTA00112673

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 36 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 general foreman? MR. a: At his request if he wanted me to or even if one of the executive staff wanted me there. It all depends on what they would have discussed at that time. MR. Did you (Indiscernible *00:36:44) --? MR. a : He could choose. So the -- MR. a : (Indiscernible *00:36:45). MR. a: -- facility manager could choose to have me there, or he could say, “I got this. Don’t worry about, you don’t got to come.” MR. a : So when you were - at least, you know, from the time ; left until February, were you automatically assumed to be in those meetings or you’d have to be invited to each individual one? MR. QJ: «t's kind of like both. I expected myself to be there because somebody had to represent the department in there, but they also put out a roll call sheet prior to those meetings and if I saw my name on it, I went. EFTA00112674

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE 37 MR. Ee : And was your name on it? the facility manager had somebody overseeing him, so. MR. a : But if you were going to write your resume would you say that you were oO acting a facility manager for that time? it wasn’t MR. a: I don’t know what an official MR. a : Yeah. MR. a: I couldn’t be honest with EFTA00112675

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 38 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you. MR. a : No, if you’re acting, if they sent out an email, I would say that’s pretty official saying that you’re the acting facility manager and you could put it in your signature line. I mean, there’s not like --. MR. a: I would normally and I thought so, but I also found out also that if you’re, like, you know, not temporarily promoted into it and stuff like that and you’re not getting paid to do the job - but like I said, I do remember emails going out, I just cannot recall if the word “acting” was put into it or not and if the word “acting” was in it, but I don’t know if I ever recall that or not. I mean, there was several times where it would go out because | called in sick or he went on vacation. I just don’t recall if it was ever done when he went off permanently. I don’t know if that was ever --. MR. a : Would it be a fair statement for us to say that you were acting facility manager with oversight? Would that be a fair --? MR. BJ: «ot --. EFTA00112676

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 39 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a : Or just tell --. MR. a: I guess so. MR. a : We just have to document it in our reports of, like, you know, what this person’s role was from this time to this time. So in order for us to be clear, I want to make sure that we’re not writing something that’s inaccurate. It’s nothing -- MR. QJ: | -- to do with, like, you’re, you know - you know, this is just for our report writing purposes we can say, you know, ‘Ei went out, you were the acting facility manager from this date until, you know, February 2019, and then, you know, you clarify that you had oversight from the executive staff in your position and were limited with your facility manager decision making ability.” Would that be fair? MR. a: Right, because if regardless of whether I was acting or not and whether I had oversight or not, the mere fact that | was not there, I still had to do a lot of his duties to keep the department functioning whether somebody deemed me EFTA00112677

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 40 w ~] wo 10 11 ive) officially acting or not. I was still doing his functions because he was not there. MR. a : Okay. MR. a: Under oversight from executive staff. MR. a : Yeah, that sounds like acting to me, so I just want to make sure that we are clear there. Like you’re just saying you’re not acting because you weren’t official - you know, you weren’t temporarily promoted, but you were performing those duties with oversight. MR. a: They would - like I said, he would call in sick and not come into work for a couple days or go on vacation, so he would put out an email to everybody in the institution saying, “QR MMI is acting facility manager MR. Ee : And would you --? MR. QJ: 9 aAnc J himself, the facility manager. MR. ae : Oh, prior to FY going out in 2018? MR. a: He would - if he wanted to take a week off and go somewhere, he would put EFTA00112678

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 41 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 out an email letting the institution and the executive staff know that | | | will be acting in my capacity while I’m out.” Happened all the time. Same thing like me, I would do the same thing and I would designate one of my subordinates as acting for me if I went out. But I do believe that at some point some kind of email went out by one of the executive staff after | left that everybody should come and see me for all facility-related issues till further notice. And like I said, fT came to my office right after we had found out that ft wasn’t coming back shortly after that Denver trip and he told me that I would have to run the department until they figure out what was going on with him, which was top secret and nobody knew anything. They didn’t know nothing, couldn’t tell you. MR. Ee : All right. Go ahead, MR. a: Just to clarify. After you had that meeting with i. is that when he sent out that email? MR. a : I don’t think - I don’t know if he was the one that sent it out, I can’t EFTA00112679

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 42 10 11 12 13 14 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 recall. I just know some kind of email went out for the department heads and it was also brought up in one of the meetings reminding people that | was no longer there and that if they had any facility-related issues I was the one - I was the POC. MR. a: Okay. Now, is it okay - I’m going to move forward in the topic. Now, during that time period do you recall during your tenure after Fs left and before ft left, was there a camera project that was started at the MCC? MR. a: It was there. It was already started. I believe when I had gotten there, they were still doing market research and stuff like that. MR. QJ: «Is it in 2016? MR. QJ: «9s what’s that? MR. a: You said when you started, you’re talking about 2016? MR. a: There was talks of - there was already camera issues I guess had going on when I had gotten there. MR. QB: okay. MR. a: And I believe - well, it was EFTA00112680

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 43 1 2 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 December of 2016, so nothing happened in ’/16. I think, you know, because I was - I got there, like, the week of Christmas. So going into ‘17, I know that there was talks about - it wasn’t so much on the cameras, it was on the recorders. There was always constant internal chatter between the comm techs and SIS and everything else on how - I guess they had an older system that was analog and everybody else had digital, but their main gripe was, I guess - and I’m not too familiar with the security side of stuff, I’1l be honest with you, I always refer to them when I needed a question answered, but from what I gather, what I understand, they weren’t able to go back in time on the recorders as far as they experienced, I guess, with other institutions. So there was no secret that there was cameras that were not working throughout the facility. Like I said, that was a dead horse from what I understand. They were dealing with broken cameras long before I had even gotten back there. And this recorder issue for whatever reason evolved and turned into camera issues, you know, and exposed the entire EFTA00112681

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 44 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 infrastructure eventually. MR. QJ: «So you mentioned there’s two issues. There is one the - there were actual cameras that weren’t recording, I mean, cameras that weren’t working. MR. aa: Right. MR. a : That means there was no live feed, there’s nothing recording either because the cameras itself were broken? MR. a: Right. So the - from what I understand you had a combination of two problems there. You had some cameras that legitimately were not working. They just - there was no communication. There was no nothing. And then you had other cameras which were in certain cells up in the Special Housing Unit where whether they were working or not, it was to my understanding that there was a lot of damage being done to them by the inmates that were in those cells. So they were either scratching the lenses on the cameras, covering up with wet toilet paper or whatever the case may be. I, myself, I couldn’t even tell you if those cameras were ever working. I only knew EFTA00112682

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 45 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of one camera in the Special Housing Unit that worked for the cells for the ranges and that was, like, one suicide cell that they had there on J-Range. But I don’t - it started out with me, the recorders were the issue, and then they were like, “Oh, okay, we’re going to go ahead and spend this money and fix these recorders and get these - this conversion from analog to digital, let’s suck in the cameras too that don’t work.” But I can tell you that I know that SIS was constantly going to the comm techs all the time because they were doing investigations and had no camera footage. It almost seemed like (Indiscernible *00:45:47). And obviously this was long before the Jeffrey Epstein thing because, you know, I had even left the institution before Jeffrey Epstein got there. This was just for, like, smaller internal investigations that they were doing where they were constantly going to | for the camera footage issues. And the determination was made by J and the higherups, I guess, and they said, well, if we’re going to go ahead and change EFTA00112683

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 46 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 this recorder why don’t we just go ahead and try to upgrade everything, get some new cameras inside and out. And they even wanted to add cameras to the existing complement because they had a lot of blind spots and then obviously the infrastructure itself, like the wiring and the conduit was all part of that deal. MR. a: In your knowledge in 2018 and in ‘19, how many cameras were there inside the MCC? MR. a: I couldn’t tell you honestly. There was a lot, but there was also a lot that should have been there. But I do remember HN baci a map of where every single - pre- existing camera was in the institution and I believe the comm techs also had an inventory tracking sheet, because each one of those cameras had an asset number assigned to it -- MR. QJ: 9 Okay. MR. a: -- that was in the MTMMS Maintenance Management System. MR. a : What was that --? MR. a : So - it’s on the Maintenance Management System, the --. MR. ER: = rms? EFTA00112684

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 47 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a : TMS, yep, Total Maintenance System. So, you know, all that equipment was in there, so you should be able to pull the report out of there. That would list all those cameras including any asset numbers assigned to the associated components that’s maintainable. If it’s something that’s maintainable and could be repaired and it’s not like a throwaway. We call it run-to-die. If it’s maintainable, reparable, it’s worth putting money into it, it’s in that system. MR. a: Okay. So in the SHU, do you know how many cameras were in the SHU offhand? MR. a: No, because it was very inconsistent because it was to my understanding certain cameras were added throughout the years for certain specific reasons. They would designate certain cells for certain purposes and then they would cancel that purpose and convert it back to a regular cell. I mean, it was just the constant changing of the operations that changed the cameras, and that was just obvious without even knowing the backdrop because you could tell just by the cameras there were so many different makes and EFTA00112685

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 48 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 models. They weren’t all consistent. They weren’t all consistent. They weren’t the same for the most part depending on what area you were in. MR. a: And so, this is -- MR. QJ: «so su --. MR. a: -- in the SHU you’re talking about? You’re not talking about 10-South? We're talking about between G, i J, K, L, M, T that’s inside the SHU? MR. a: Yes, those for the SHU, as far as I know those were all there pre-existing before me. There was never no camerawork done up there, whether they were working or not. MR. a: But you just mentioned they were adding cameras and taking them out. MR. a: Yeah, but I was talking institution wide -- MR. a: Okay. MR. a: -- not just - yeah, not just SHU, you know. It was institution wide. MR. a : So let’s get back on track. We talked about the fact that FY started a project and the project - what did that project for the cameras entail? EFTA00112686

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 49 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a : So I really - for the project the way it was designed, the way we wanted it done was | had put this package together. We were going to get - he had the map of the cameras I was telling you about. So we were going to upgrade the existing cameras, add new cameras because | took this map, brought it to the executive staff and to SIS and they said, “Hey, listen, this is what we have now. We're going to go ahead and try to get this project. Where do you need cameras?” So they did a tour around the institution and they went ahead and they asked to have other cameras placed, like on certain ranges that didn’t have any coverages. There was, like, a little mini TV rec room in the housing units that had no camera coverage in them. There was a lot of blind spots in certain areas throughout the institution. So they went ahead and they added what they wanted to add. But then also because the recorder was getting upgraded, the infrastructure that was in place because it was analog, obviously it was going to go to digital, they had to run new wiring, new conduit. All that had to be done. EFTA00112687

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 50 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 So under that contract, last I remember walking out that door, what happened was it came in over a million dollars originally and somebody came back and said, “Listen, we need to get this to 800,000 or lower.” Somebody threw out a number there, I don’t remember who it was. It came through | and somebody up top said that because of some kind of procurement avenue or regulation or something, they would’ve had to go through a whole different procurement avenue because of that amount. They said to make it easier and to try and increase our chances of getting this money and getting it done, we had to bring the number down to like 800,000 or something. I don’t remember the exact number. So then the decision was made because originally we did this contract, whoever we were purchasing the cameras from, they were also supposed to install those cameras. We paid for the labor for them to do the entire project initially. My guys weren’t going to touch anything, they were just going to provide support. So the initial $1 million number was to have the contract SigNet, I guess it was in EFTA00112688

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 51 1 2 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that contract, whoever we were getting those cameras from, they were going to go ahead and do the install and we would supervise them, escort them, and give support when they came. So when they came back and told us that that number needed to get down below 800 or whatever, that’s when the decision was made to where they said, “Okay. We can do this. We can just have the contractor install the cameras and we can use the trade guys, the electrician and the comm techs to run the cable and the wiring to save on the labor, to bring the labor costs down to try and get into that number.” And that was the last - that’s how I left off. That’s how the project was supposed to be done, because when I was there, my last year that I was there for the better - for the second half of ‘19, well, ’18 into ‘19, the electrician and the comm techs had already started running conduit in the housing units and stuff like that. They had already begun to hang conduit. But I could tell you from the - right up till I walked out that door there were never no cameras or even wiring for that matter EFTA00112689

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 52 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 in that institution. They were never there. MR. a: So we’ll come to that. So that’s some of the questions I have. I’m going to share -- MR. a : Okay. MR. a: -- back my screen. Do you recall if this was the contract that was awarded? It looks like it states on Line 17A. It’s the same document I showed before. MR. a: Yeah. MR. a: This says SigNet Technologies and it’s to Federal Bureau of Prisons. And if you scroll down to page - looks like it’s Page 4, it lists the schedule of supplies. MR. a: What was - were these the items the contract listed and does the contract through SigNet all the purchase of all the items for the upgrades inside MTC? MR. QE: MM. can you scroll back up there because I want to make sure it’s the right institution on this? MR. a: So this one - yeah, don’t look at - this - what you see FCI Fort Dix (Indiscernible *00:54:15). I must clarify. EFTA00112690

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] wo 10 11 uw ios) FCI Fort Dix handles all the payments on the MR. a : Oh, okay. MR. QJ: = Yeah. MR. a : Sorry about that. MR. QJ: 9 They do all - they did all the contracting for MCC New York and MDC Brooklyn because they didn’t have in-house contractors at the facility institutions. MR. BJ: 9 so --. MR. Ee : And I see below it says, “Delivery Date September 28, 2018, MCC New York Camera System. MR. a: I’m going to come back to that part too. So over here, this is all the - these are all the technology, well, the pieces. Let’s go through it, just - we’ll go through it quickly. It says for this license, the single license for Nice Vision Enterprise package audio channel, it looks like Vision Smart Hub Recorder. This might be the recording system that you’re talking about, Mr. a: MR. a : I would - I guess so. I’m EFTA00112691

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 54 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 going to guess. I’m not a comm tech. For now, I’ll say yes. MR. a: No problem. And there’s a recorder (Indiscernible *00:55:04) licenses and then it looks like a package major version, then we got the decoders. We got the AMS and Nice Vision supporting 16 cameras, the IP cameras. Now, you mentioned that this - if this is the contract that was awarded, was the plan to replace every camera inside the MCC or replace only certain cameras? MR. a: I was under the impression it was every camera we purchased for them, so if you’re looking at that Line Number 9 where it says SigNet labor for a quarter of a million dollars -- MR. J: 9 uh-huh. MR. a: -- they better have installed every damn camera because that was my intention. That’s what I was - thought I was paying for was -- MR. a : So they’re replacing -- MR. a : -- you know, for them to --. MR. a: -- every camera - current camera in the MCC plus adding additional EFTA00112692

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 55 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cameras? MR. a: Correct, yep. MR. a: And the total here says 698,108, and what you mentioned a little while before was initially the contract was over a million dollars and your understanding was this part right here, this SigNet labor was much higher and the idea, the proposal that came around was to get rid of the SigNet labor in terms of the conduit, wiring, the wiring, to be done by in-house comm techs and electricians so that this labor -- MR. EJ: «Right. MR. a : -- cost of whatever the total was would come down and would be below the $800,000 mark in total? MR. a: That was my - I don’t know what the numbers exactly were but that was my understanding was that in order to drop that quote down, we had to cut back on - they just said, you know, “Let’s go ahead and cut back on “” the labor on the wiring side,” which is why the guys started running conduit in-house on their own because it was to my understanding that’s what got cut from the contract. EFTA00112693

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. QE: Okay. And you wouldn’t 2 happen to recall offhand what the initial 3 SigNet labor proposal was, right? 4 MR. a : I just remember the original w 6 | was still ~] first estimate that went out came back when here was like over a million Okay, the total. Okay. The total, yeah, uh-huh. And based on this, it looks 11 like Line 8 it shows IP cameras. It looks like 12 the quantity is 135. Then it says the Corner 13 VEN cam. That looks like there’s 75 pieces. 14 So you’re looking at over 200 cameras in total 15 that was ordered. 16 MR. Yeah, I would say so. Yeah. 17 MR. One thing I don’t see in here 18 - well, maybe you can explain it since I don’t 19 see. Do you see the order for the conduits in 20 here, the wiring? 21 MR. GJ: No. 22 MR. a: But if that was part of the - 23 - 24 MR. QJ: «Bot if -. 25 MR. a: Who was supposed to provide EFTA00112694

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 57 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that? MR. a: You have - so I believe - we had a lot of conduit left over at Building 4. It was a warehouse that we had in Brooklyn that belongs to MCC New York. It’s like their food service warehouse and facilities had a storage and I guess they had a whole bunch of conduit there from a surplus from another project, so they started bringing that stuff over to the institution and using that. The wiring I believe was purchased separately through - I don’t remember the company’s name. The comm tech would know because he did the order, but we purchased that through - what is the website where you buy stuff from GSA? MR. a: I’m not sure. I’m not familiar with the purchasing department. But it was purchased through GSA according to your memory? MR. a: Well, it’s a website GSA has. MR. a : GSA Advantage or something? MR. a : That’s it. Yeah, so all these companies sell their stuff on this GSA website, GSA Advantage, and I know all of the EFTA00112695

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 58 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 quotes for that wiring and stuff came from vendors off that website. That’s where were - it was eventually purchased through a separate procurement I believe, if it wasn’t part of this, I can’t even recall. But I do remember the shopping for the wiring being done on GSA Advantage through a vendor there. MR. a: Okay. This might sound like MR. a: I just don’t remember. MR. a: Sorry. This might sound like a dumb question. MR. : I just don’t remember. MR. QJ: 9 what's the difference between a conduit and a wiring? MR. : So the conduit is the metal pipe that you see running across or up and down a wall that runs into little junction boxes and the wiring just runs into it. MR. BJ: So --. MR. a: Runs through it. MR. a : So that’s a protection, the conduit, it’s an actual protection over the --. MR. Yeah, yeah, it’s metal or it could be PVC, but obviously in the institution EFTA00112696

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 59 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it was metal and you run the conduit and you run the junction boxes and everything and then you pull your cable through it and it’s basically a protective housing to protect the wiring and keep it from being exposed. MR. a: And according to your memory, do you recall whose decision it was to have the in-house staff do the conduits and the wiring? MR. a: It came down from the executive staff, but that was discussed, jeez, I can’t even remember. That was back when the numbers started flying in and they were trying to find out ways to bring the numbers down and everything, but it was somebody higherup that made the decision to try and cut there on the - when they saw how much the labor was, they were like, “Well, maybe we could cut back on the labor,” because it was my goal that if they were going to spend this kind of money, you might as well have the contractor do everything. MR. a : Okay. MR. QJ: «And all my hopes and dreams got killed because they saw the number and wanted to cut some fat and - but --. EFTA00112697

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 60 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a: No problem. See on the bottom, it says - it was - the document “Signature Offer Steven aa.’ It looks like you signed on 09/21/2018 and that’s - he works for SigNet Technologies. And Line 31A that’s - looks like U.S. Government, that’s Freelon Peyton (Phonetic Sp. *1:01:38), and that was signed on 09/21/2018, and he’s a Section Chief FAO. MR. a: Yeah. MR. a: And the delivery date on Line 20 up here, it says, “Estimate” - well, I don’t know if it’s estimate, but it says, “Delivery date is on 09/28/2018.” It says, “MCC New York camera system: provide services in accordance with SFS, SOW, and technical proposal.” And it looks like GSA, GSO7F-0322T. It looks like the contract number’s in here too. It looks like based - looking at this, the contract, the estimate was - I mean, the contract states that the delivery for all that equipment and everything that was ordered was scheduled to be delivered at the MCC on September 28, 2018. According to your recollection, do you recall if all these items were delivered to the EFTA00112698

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 61 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MCC in September 2018? MR. a: Can we go back to when this contract was drafted? Okay. So you see here where the award was 09/21? MR. a: Yes. MR. aa: And then the delivery date is 09/28, that’s a week. There is no way, no way - I’m not even going to - I shouldn’t have to go any further, but I’m going to do it anyway. There’s no way you could deliver a product like that - the install alone if the contractor would have did it would have taken well over a year. Just the install alone for that kind of equipment if they were to do everything soup to nuts on their own, conduit and everything, would have took a year. MR. a : But is it --? MR. J: = so -- MR. a: Where is the equipment coming from? MR. a: -- I’m thinking that that delivery date is the date they delivered the contract to the contractor because there’s no way you can award a contract and expect to have everything that’s in that contract in seven EFTA00112699

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 62 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 days get done. Delivery date I think is when they delivered the contract to the contractor. But to answer your question, as of February 14‘ of 2019, my last day there, there was not a single camera on-site there -- MR. a: Is it possible -- MR. a: -- because -- MR. QJ: 9 -- the cameras -- MR. a: What’s that? MR. a: -- were delivered without your knowledge? Is it possible the cameras would have been delivered without your knowledge? MR. MJ: 9That place, absolutely. But I could tell you this much, two things wrong with that. Number one, it was my impression that the contractor when they received all the cameras and got all the cameras in stock and everything was on-site and they had all the equipment on-site and everything was in stock, they were bringing it with them. I didn’t - I don’t know if they were going to dropship that or not and have the stuff delivered directly to the institution and then come afterwards. But even if that was the case, somebody would have EFTA00112700

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 63 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to had gone to the rear loading dock where that stuff comes in and there’s a logbook back there and they would’ve had to sign for that delivery and it would’ve had to been somebody in the facilities department. MR. a: So you’re under the impression that - when you say “contractor,” you’re talking about SigNet? MR. a: Yes. MR. a: So you’re under the impression that SigNet was supposed to bring all that equipment with them when they come in to install? MR. QJ: 9 Correct. MR. a: So you’re not sure --. MR. a : We paid them to install it, so to me contractually wise there would have been too much liability there to have the stuff shipped directly to the institution and then call the contractor up and say, “Hey, come in, all the stuff is here,” because if something was missing or broken, because the contractor didn’t have chain of custody of that equipment the whole entire time, they could blame us. We had a lot of liability on our hands and we EFTA00112701

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 64 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 would still have to pay the contractor regardless. We wouldn’t be able to hold them liable for any damages as far as that goes. So my impression was when we did this everything was going to go to SigNet or SigNet was purchasing it and when everything was in- house they would come and bring everything with them and install it. MR. a: I have an email here. I’m going to show this to you. This email is from Justin Houston. He’s a program manager for SigNet Technologies and -- MR. a: Yeah. MR. QJ: 9 -- this is addressed to me. It says, “I wanted to send this to you in regards to the questions you asked.” This is dated October 1°, Friday, 2021, and this is -- MR. a: Yeah. MR. QJ: 9 -- from Justin Houston to myself. And he states, “Hey, a. I wanted to send this to you in regards to the question you asked regarding if they had new gear on- site. Attached is the PO that we received on 09/21/2018. The gear was delivered around 30 days after that and on 11/01/2018 I sent over EFTA00112702

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 65 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the paperwork for the site to submit for the IP addresses needed to install the system. I will forward the email traffic as well.” It looks like based on what he stated - let me see if I can get this. Actually, this is the contract itself. It looks like he’s stating that by 09/21/2018 that’s - the contract was signed, and it looks like within 30 days all the gear was delivered. But you’re stating you don’t believe the gear was delivered? MR. a: Nope, not at all. MR. a : Is it possible that he was - now you - based on what your statement, you believe the gear might have been delivered to them. MR. a: Well, that’s my problem is he doesn’t clarify what gear means. I don’t know what gear means. Does gear mean just the cameras? Does it mean just the wire? Does it mean the entire contents? I don’t know what he - does it mean just the recorder. He’s not clarifying what gear means. MR. a: Okay. MR. a: Going back to what I said, I EFTA00112703

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 66 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 could tell you that unless somebody signed for something without my knowledge and didn’t tell me about it, there was no cameras on that. There was no gear. They were just hanging conduit when I leave there and that was conduit that we owned that we didn’t even purchase. It was already there. So --. MR. QJ: «lf gear was delivered, where would it have been delivered to at the MCC if the items - all these items were delivered? MR. a: So it would’ve had to gone to the rear dock. The rear gate they called it. And then there’s a Shipping and Receiving personnel there, staff, and they have a big cage that’s in that loading area, so all the deliveries go in there and then they would write down who had deliveries, call those departments and say, “Hey, you need to send somebody to come pick up your stuff. You got stuff here.” So whoever that person was to go there to pick up the stuff would have to sign the logbook saying that they picked up the stuff. But you’re talking about a truck loading stuff that wouldn’t even have fit in that cage. EFTA00112704

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 67 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 It would’ve been like pallets and stuff like - it would have been huge to store that stuff. It would’ve had to have, you know - and then, you know, it’s all electronic stuff. That’s why I don’t recall that stuff being delivered prior to the - but I was under the impression the contractor was coming with that stuff. I was not under the impression that that was going to get delivered separately, and if did it wasn’t to my knowledge. I never saw a single new camera while I was there or recorder or anything like that and somebody would’ve had to have signed for that. And then we would have had to have - there would have had to have been inventory taken to put that in storage and somewhere in the Facilities Department. So like I said, going back to the contract, they awarded it on the 215* and wanted it done by the 28", that’s just totally unrealistic and irrational. I don’t -- MR. a : Now -- MR. a : -- see that. MR. a : -- if the things that you purchased from them, would have that been the EFTA00112705

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 material as well that your staff members would have been using to run the conduit and wiring and things? Is that part of that purchase order or is that something you were going to be receiving yourself and --? MR. aa: So I was under the impression that SigNet was going to wait until they had all their equipment, wherever they get it from or whoever they’re buying it from or who their supply is, when they have everything they need to do the job that’s within the scope of work of the contract, they were going to come on- site with everything and begin doing the work themselves. The only that -- MR. a : I thought you --. MR. a : -- my guys --. ee: I’m sorry, go ahead. MR. a: The only thing my guys - yeah. The only thing my guys were going to do B was install the conduit. The wiring if I remember correctly was purchased separately through that GSA Advantage website and it was through - I remember it was through a vendor that they had purchased from previously in the past, the comm shop, for regular supplies and 68 EFTA00112706

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) oy \o stuff. It was just like a regular cabling/wiring company that had a GSA schedule on that site. And that would have been delivered directly to the institution. MR. a: I apologize. I have one more email. I’m going to share this with you too. MR. a : Okay. MR. a: This is Anixter TP-120, 240 and SigNet Tech. This is from | to fF - there’s a whole bunch of names: ee a. the people listed. It’s dated on April 1, 2019. Subject is Anixter TP-120, 240, and SigNet Tech. It says, “Good afternoon, Ms. a. After reviewing my CORS Report for the A Central Office supplies samples, I went ahead if and asked I. | our comm tech on the status of these particular PO’s and he advised me that they haven’t been able to receive the fiber cable and without the cable they cannot - they can’t proceed with the camera system He if) to mentioned that the company’s requiring some n sort of documentation and he would be - he should be able to provide you with the details. Sincerely, a. Financial Program EFTA00112707

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 70 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Specialist, U.S. Department of Justice, BOP.” Now, does that help clarify anything? MR. a: Yeah -- MR. a : I know this is --. MR. a : -- it just tells me that - it verifies what I said, that there was no cameras or wiring or anything on-site there at the time that I left. It was just not there. But it also makes sense that if these - the wiring isn’t there, they can’t hook up the cameras. But what got me - where I’m concerned, I guess, with this is who were they talking to here because this would have to be a problem with SigNet. If SigNet’s installing - connecting the wires to the cameras and everything like that, I don’t know who they’re really addressing in that email. MR. a: It looks like it’s more internal email, right? And they’re trying to figure out what exactly - why the camera systems have not been installed yet. It looks like | | told them that the status of the fiber cable is not in, like the fiber cable or cables have not been delivered, right? I’m sorry. And without the cables they can’t EFTA00112708

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 proceed with the camera systems. MR. a: Well, yeah, that’s cause and effect. Yeah, so that’s accurate as I read it. The fact that it’s three years since I left there and there’s still no wiring there is kind of intriguing in itself. MR. QJ: 9 well, this is 2019. This is like a couple months after you left, April l, 2019. MR. a: Oh, I got you. Okay. Yeah. MR. a: So that Anixster, would that be the company? Would that be one of those companies that provides wiring? MR. QJ: Possibly, yeah. I guess so. I’m not --. MR. Ee : a. I just sent you an email. Can you just share your - or scroll down to the second email and just - so that maybe this will help -- MR. QJ: 9 Bear with me. MR. a : -- clarify what was received and what wasn’t. MR. a: Okay. Share your screen. Is this the - you want me to scroll all the way down? EFTA00112709

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Oo w ot) oO oo MR. Ee : No. It would be the one that says - the - did you receive what I sent -- | og It was from Nobile -- MR. ae: Oh, it’s on the bottom, okay. MR. a : Yeah, it’s on the bottom of bottom. It’s middle. middle. So this is an email documentation from D H ct 0 b- 3 t (D EFTA00112710

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 73 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a : Correct. MR. a: It says, » COE I didn’t want to leave you hanging, so this is what we know so far. It appears that FedEx might - must recycle tracking numbers. The order was placed on 09/27/2018 from SigNet to Qognify. Nice and Divisional PO shows it was shipped directly to the site, MCC New York. It shows that it was scheduled to ship on 09/30/2018 from Qognify. We currently don’t have the tracking that shows when you exactly received it but best guess is seven to 14 days, which would put it on your dock around October 14, 2018, and it was installed the week of August 16, 2019. We will try to continue - we will continue to try and find the tracking information for when it actually hit your dock. Let me know if you need anything else.” MR. a: Yeah. So that was going to be my next question is: Where is any tracking information on this? And then if FedEx does recycle tracking numbers, that’s definitely news to me. But also, when this email - what are they saying they shipped? MR. a: It looks like it was a EFTA00112711

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 74 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 question about the camera system that was on- site at MCC. They’re talking about specifically the camera system that was sent from SigNet -- MR. a : It doesn’t say that. It doesn’t say that. It doesn’t tell them what they’re - it doesn’t even - forget about the fact they don’t have no tracking - it doesn’t even say what they’re talking about other than if we could identify what the - I don’t even know what that Qognify stuff is. That doesn’t even look familiar to me. MR. a : So Qognify is the company, the parent - the company that they deal with for the Nice video system. MR. a : Right. MR. a : So they are the ones who handle --. MR. a: So that would tell me then that’s only going to be that component that was delivered, which still if it was delivered, I had no knowledge of it while I was there. MR. a: And you’re saying if it comes in that pallet - let’s just say the MCC received a truckload of something like that and EFTA00112712

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 75 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it can’t be housed inside the MCC at that location, where else could it be housed? MR. QJ: «Well, I don’t think - it could be housed there, it just wouldn’t be in that warehouse there. It would have to be in some other secure location within the facility, like somewhere in the Facilities Department. Most likely probably, like, in the comm shop or something like that someplace. MR. QJ: But if this --. MR. a: I wouldn’t necessarily say that it would be stored offsite. MR. a : Hey, a. just scroll above to the email that I sent. It’s specifically with regard to Nobile. He said that it’s the camera system that was installed on the 19th. I mean, and if you don’t know, Nobile was the acting facilities manager from February through March of - or May of 2019 and then became the permanent facilities manager or facility manager. MR. a: Yeah, I believe he walked in right as I walked out or right after or something like that. It was very close. MR. a: So he’s telling us that EFTA00112713

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 the camera system - you know, everything that they installed was already on-site and that’s what he had told us. So he’s saying it was on- site by the time he got there, so we’re just getting confused when you’re saying that it wasn’t there because he said it was already there when he got there. MR. a : I never laid eyes on it, and I was never made aware that those cameras were on-site in my whole entire time that I was there. Somebody would have had to sign for them. There’s got to be some kind of tracking information, and then like I said -- the contractor was bringing the cameras, not being delivered separately without the contractor. MR. a : So according to his email, you know, they’re claiming that beginning of October 2018 is when they would have arrived, so is that - were you acting at that point or was | still there? 76 EFTA00112714

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 77 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a : Like I don’t know, I can’t - I would need to know the date that ; acted his last day on the job. And the only milestone I can give you for that is, like I said, when he went on that Colorado training trip, he just never came back from that. MR. a : Well, last time we spoke - last time - my understanding is when | left is August of 2018 was the last time he stepped foot inside MCC. Does that help? MR. a: Yeah, it does, but like I said, I’m just - I never saw anything outside of conduit regarding this project on-site there at that institution. I was never made aware of any of that being there from my - since the day the contract was awarded up until the time, I walked out the door there was no cameras in that building -- MR. QJ: 9 Ana --. MR. a: -- at least to my knowledge. I never was made - I was never told, made aware, never signed for them, never was - nothing. MR. a: And if it did come, it says - according to - it looks like this is the EFTA00112715

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 78 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 contract. If it was delivered, it should have been delivered attention to you according to the contract, right? MR. a: That’s - should have - exactly that’s how that should have been done if things are done the way they’re supposed to be done, but I never was made aware of any of that stuff. I mean, like I said, it’s beena long time, but I never - I don’t think there was any - there’s no way. MR. a : And before - just on a side note, as far as the conduit that needed to be run, how long should’ve that taken your people to run? MR. a: It would have taken a very long time because the department was severely understaffed, and the institution came first. The daily operations of the institution came first. So if you had lights out, you had phones down, you know, stuff like that the tradesmen had to go ahead and take care of work orders and stuff to maintain the institution first and then they would come back and on their downtime and stuff and do work pertaining to this. EFTA00112716

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 79 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a : Okay. About how many man hours do you think it takes though, I mean, if they actually had worked on it? MR. a: It’s kind of hard to tell because I don’t know the total picture of the routing of where all the cameras were going in addition to the ones that are existing there, but I can tell you that when this whole thing was going on every - we were all short-staffed. There was a constant flip over of staff, and then you had augmentation going on. My guys were working housing units more than they were in the department and working mandated overtime. So they were covering - augmentation was like you would act as a CO and go up in the housing unit for the shift, and then some of them would get stuck doing overtime for another shift. And then depending on how that fell, they went up there all day working the housing unit, got told they had to work all night, then they were banging on me in the morning because they worked a double before that. So - but I mean, man hours’ wise, I really couldn’t tell you. I know there’s a book out EFTA00112717

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 80 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 there, electrical code book out there that tells you the standard amount of feet of conduit that can be installed within an eight- hour period, but I mean, it just - that stuff doesn’t apply to a prison, especially MCC New York. There are just too much operational changes and stuff on a daily basis that prevented these guys from dedicating 100 percent of their work to something like that. Especially being that they already had something in place that was semi-functional. MR. a: Just to clarify, I know you mentioned it, said you never received anything, you never signed for anything. If the receiving - if the delivery area received it, right, you said the back - the rear door received it, would they have some kind of log they kept? MR. a: Yep, uh-huh. MR. a: Where would I find that? MR. a: So that log was kept in the cage where the packages were - be delivered at. So inside that - they had one officer dedicated that had one key for that cage back there and that was their job. | & D it was called, they EFTA00112718

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 81 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 were part of that crew, and they would just go ahead and you get delivery, UPS, FedEx, they would all come in, put all that stuff ina cage, and they would write in the book who it was addressed to, what department, and then they would call you and let you know you had something or send you an email, however the officer chose to do it, and you would go there and sign for it and pick it up. MR. a: And no one notified you. This - the book that they keep, is it labeled anything specific as you recall? MR. a: If I recall correctly, I saw two different versions of the book. One was a binder, a three-ring binder type with a pre- filled out form, and then also there was a - have you ever seen those little green government logbooks that are just plain? You know, there was one of those back there at one point. MR. a: Okay. And that should tell us when - if and when it was delivered? MR. a : Yep. MR. a: Okay. MR. a: And in addition to the EFTA00112719

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE B82 1 2 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 tracking information, of course, you know, because I believe the three-ring binder part of that - because that’s the other thing is if something is getting delivered to me, if I ordered something out of the department, I don’t care what it was, a case of light bulbs or, you know, a truckload of conduit or whatever, when that stuff ships this way, the vendor’s sending me an email with tracking information letting me know when to accept it because they know it’s coming to a secure institution where the truck and the driver are subject to screening and there’s only certain hours that they can deliver during the day. So it’s not like a wide open 24/7 warehouse obviously. They can only deliver during certain hours. So I would make sure and let everybody know you need to give me the tracking information and I need to know what day that this stuff is coming to me because I need to make sure that I have the arrangements in place to get this delivery accepted and not turned away. MR. aaa: Were you - back then were you in constant communication with SigNet or was EFTA00112720

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 83 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 there somebody else on your staff that was in communication with SigNet? MR. a: The comm techs. We had two comm techs that started with this thing and initialed. I inherited two comm techs when I came there, which both were involved with the project with | when he started it. One of them had retired and then one of them stayed behind. He was still there. He was a younger guy, which is that FY guy on the email. MR. a: And who is the one that retired? MR. a: Samuel Yaegly (Phonetic Sp. *1:27:11). MR. a: Yaegly. Do you know when he retired? MR. a: While I was there. I couldn’t give you an exact date. I really couldn’t tell you. I’m --. MR. QJ: «owas this toward the end of -- MR. a: What (Indiscernible *1:27:26). MR. QJ: 9 -- 2018, beginning of 2019, or was it earlier? MR. QJ: 9 what's that? EFTA00112721

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LIMITED OFFICIAL 1 MR. QE: USE Was it tow 2 2018, beginning of 2019 ore 3 MR. ae : I honestly 4 tell you. 5 MR. a: Is it poss 6 sent the tracking informatio 7 MR. | : Very 8 lot of communication from wh 9 back and forth that I was no 10 that was during the pre-cont 11 phases or pre-ordering phase 2 yeah, very possible that it 3 him 4 MR. : Okay. 15 MR. QJ: «And it’s a 16 it could have went to the co 7 Sometimes they do do that. 8 if you go back to that contr 9 guy | (Phonetic Sp. * 20 MR. GJ: his is up 21 MR. ae: Do you see 22 MR. ER: This is up ards the end of arlier? really couldn’t ible that SigNet n to | og They did a at I understand t looped in on, but ract, pre-planning to I should say. ut could have went to lso very possible ntracting officer. noticed So - and I act there was that :18) on there. name [7 here, right here, 24 MR. I think he Yep. Soh was in the Budget e is what we call - ing Department, but EFTA00112722

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 85 wi ~] 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 he was what we called the “paper pusher” for Fort Dix. MR. a: That would be here? MR. BMJ: 9 So basically, he did all the financial stuff for MCC New York. He was the guy that was on-site in the budget office and then all that paperwork, he was technically, like, an employee of Fort Dix. He was working with them in the contracting and budgeting office of Financial Services. MR. a: You’ re talking about Line 7A where it states | sss i. | (Indiscernible *1:29:05)? MR. QJ: Yeah. So any time I want to purchase anything, it doesn’t matter what it is, he would get the paperwork and then the rest of it’s between him and the contracting staff at Fort Dix, the CO at Fort Dix, whoever that CO is. So sometimes with stuff like this, I have seen in other instances where people will look at this contract and they don’t - they just see a name and they just put it on there and send them stuff. But I would also like to think EFTA00112723

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE B86 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 comm tech, or somebody got a tracking number that they would have had the decency or the common sense or whatever you want to call it to to forward it to me, you know, to send it to me. MR. a: Okay. As far as you recall you left in February 14, 2019, and when you left -- mR. QJ: 9 sure. MR. a: -- as far as you recall -- MR. a: (Indiscernible *1:30:06). MR. a: -- MCC never received the cameras or anything on this order, which would be that - everything that’s listed on Page 4 of this contract order, you don’t recall them receiving it. And you believe that --. MR. a: I don’t at all. When I left there, they were still hanging conduit when they could -- MR. a: And the conduit was -- MR. a: -- at times (Indiscernible *1:30:27). MR. a: -- items that was already in- house that MCC from a previous project? MR. a: I don’t - yeah, because I EFTA00112724

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 87 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 know they had plans to purchase more just in case. But I remember going over to Building 4 and there was just racks and racks and racks of conduit that they had over there. The electrician knew - was there, that was part of his overstock for his shop -- MR. a : Where was Building 4? MR. a : -- that he hung. It’s just over the bridge in Brooklyn, an old Navy shipyard. MR. a: The Brooklyn Navy Shipping Yard. MR. a: Yes. MR. QJ: 9 So MCC kept -- MR. a: It’s right on -- MR. a: mMcc had a building inside the yard? MR. a: Yeah. It’s kind of like separated. It was - used to be part of the yard, but it’s totally fenced in by itself and there’s a big huge warehouse there. And at the time that I had left there, food service, staff from food service ran that operation because they had big giant walk-in freezers and coolers there, which is where they kept a lot of their EFTA00112725

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 88 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 overstock. But also, every single department in the institution, didn’t matter who you was, human resources, trust fund, facilities, everybody had their own separate cages in that warehouse as well to keep overstock supplies for their departments as well. And has its own loading dock, trucks go in and out of there every day, all day with deliveries and all kinds of stuff, and if it’s something that they can’t fit at the institution, it goes to Building 4. You can have the driver take it to Building 4. But in this case, I would have never allowed that because I - the supervision and the oversight, there is none out there. At least there wasn’t at the time that I was there. There was just one guy running the whole show over there with a handful of inmates. MR. a: Okay. Agent a. any questions on that? MR. a : No. I’m just looking through all the emails from | right now. MR. a: I don’t have much more in terms of questions in terms of follow-up EFTA00112726

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 89 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 because we covered a lot of details. Bear with me one minute. MR. a: Sure. You guys owe me lunch, I could tell you that. MR. a : You just threw us for a total loop because we’ve been proceeding this whole time with the knowledge that these have - were on-site, so that’s where we - you’ve kind of blown our minds here not knowing about it. MR. a: Yeah, I just - I told - I - when Agent fe gave me the initial phone call, I was like, wow, 2018. That was like - I just had no - we were still waiting on everything. And even if - I would have expected the contractor to be with them. But I know there was delays with the wiring. The wiring was crazy. They had some crazy delays with wiring. And to be honest with you, something like this just the way that institution was ran, there was just way too many hands in the pot. It was just - two wardens, two AW’s, two comm techs, two facility managers it sounds like. There’s just too much stuff going on, too many people involved. EFTA00112727

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 90 1 MR. P| : You mentioned ioe) w oO communic 8 MR. QJ: =I don’t ions with SigNet over this? how or why, but I 9 wouldn’t yono. I would if did 10 it would more with he had more 11 WENN than the aw 12 interaction with the warden as far as, you c Ww fan fe z * w o ire) F 5 ~~ k 5 a] oa 8 o uy n rt 12) Fh rt as B =] Q 03) w 1] jon n rt Bh Hh there was 7 other AW’s And then you 22 mentioned there iN MR. a EFTA00112728

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE 91 ae : Don’t ask me how to spell it, I don’t know. He was an Ec You would have saw his name on the earlier stages of the project back when MR. ae: Okay. And you said the comm techs would usually fix the issues that came up in - prior to this camera tem being ordered, the comm tec would fix the issues that came up with the decoder. What’s a decoder? A decoder? Yeah. I have no idea. I just heard personal issue. You got to realize in my tenure with the Bureau, I worked at four % Hh Hh ifferent institutions, three of them high on ile. All right. M New York, me and ue] ini oO mh EFTA00112729

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 92 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 | used to - I had a problem with that equipment being in the same office as my comm tech. You go to any other institution, that equipment is under SIS control and if they need a comm tech to look at it, SIS calls for the comm tech and then SIS stays there and provides oversight, an escort the whole time that they’ re working on that equipment. Here at MCC New York, and I’m only assuming because MCC New York’s the oldest building I’ve ever worked in - I think it was built in the late ‘60s early ‘70s. But I just was not used to that equipment being in the office of the comm tech. Everywhere I’ve ever been that was always in SIS, but these were all newer buildings. I think every other institution I worked in was much newer, but I just wasn’t accustomed to that equipment being in - it was just unreal to me. I just, you know --. MR. a: Can you explain that to me one more time? So my - our understanding is there’s a SIS office, then there’s a video -- MR. a : Yeah. MR. a: -- monitoring room, right, EFTA00112730

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 93 w ~] ive) where they can see -- MR. QJ: 9 Right. MR. a: -- everything on the cameras. That’s where the SIS - an SIS officer sits. They watch everything on the video monitor. And isn’t the access for the camera system inside a room that’s inside the video monitoring room? MR. a: Are you talking where? MR. QJ: «at occ. MR. a: Yeah, but where, downstairs in the comm tech’s office, or up in someplace else? MR. a: So - wait, wait. So I’m talking about on the third floor where the SI wo office is. MR. a: Okay. MR. a: Isn’t there a video monitoring room? MR. QJ: = t’ve never - I don’t know. I never put eyes on it. I know that there was equipment in FY office and | office, the two comm techs in that same office, and there was equipment that was in that room that was part of that system. EFTA00112731

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 94 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a: What equipment was in that room? MR. a: I have no idea, I just know it was, like, in a locked cabinet. MR. a: So you’re saying the comm techs had equipment, the live equipment for the recorder, everything in their room that they could access? MR. a: There was some kind - yeah, there was something related to the camera system that was in a cabinet in their office that was related to that and that’s why in that office they also had a secured cabinet for shop stock and supplies. And if any of that stuff would have got delivered and I knew about it, that’s exactly where I would have put it was in that cage. MR. a: The comm techs in their office, did they have live monitoring, monitors set up for the cameras? MR. a: What do you mean by that? MR. a : Like for the video. You know how the SIS shop has - you can watch the live videos throughout the institution? They have a few of them that are up live feed. EFTA00112732

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 95 10 11 12 13 14 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a: That’s what I was trying to say. I don’t know what equipment’s involved behind that, but they had the ability to watch video from the cameras in their office. MR. QJ: ana --. MR. a: And like I said, I’ve never seen that at any of the other institutions I was at. It was always the comm tech goes to SIS, puts their hands on the equipment and fixes it, does whatever they’ve got to do. MR. QJ: 9 when --? MR. a: MCC New York, I don’t know if it’s because of the age of the institution or not, but they did - I don’t know what the equipment is, but they -- MR. a: Excuse me. MR. a: -- have the ability to see footage from their office. MR. a: Did they have TVs set up on their wall or was it just on their computer screen? MR. a: No, the had TVs on a wall. MR. a: And do you --? MR. a : I don’t know how - they had - yeah, they had - I don’t know how they monitor EFTA00112733

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it, but they did have TVs on the wall, at least one that I can remember. MR. a: And you recall being in the comm techs’ office and you could see the live feeds on their wall? MR. aa: No. I remember seeing a TV. I never witnessed any live footage, but I know that it was discussed through just variable internal things where they had that capability in there. MR. a: And you believe in that little - the cabinet that was locked up in their office they had - those were the actual DVRs, the recorders, were inside the office? MR. a: I don’t know what the equipment was, I just know that they had the ability to monitor cameras in their office. MR. a: Okay. MR. a: Yeah. I don’t know what was in there, but I am assuming that if they had the ability to monitor the cameras, they have some sort of equipment in there, unless for some reason or another somebody ran -- MR. a: Is it possible -- MR. a: -- wires from it. 96 EFTA00112734

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 97 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a: -- for like the night supervision, like if they had supervision access, they could log in and view cameras off their computer system? MR. a : I don't know. If they had any kind of access like that, I wasn’t aware of it. MR. QR: Okay. MR. a: I always - I just had a hard time - I just never seen that before. They shouldn’t - you know, the only time a comm tech is dealing with camera stuff is when there is there’s a repair or maintenance involved. You know, they shouldn’t be able to, at least in my opinion and from what I’ve seen at other institutions, be able to just hit a power button and turn on a monitor and see footage, whether live or recorded. And then the fact that that was in their office, you know, was just astonishing to me. It was new to me, and the only thing that kept me somewhat at bay was that it was - the comm techs were the only trade in the whole entire department who didn’t have inmates working for them because of this - the equipment they had EFTA00112735

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 98 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 access to. Which is also a reason they can’t get a lot of work done so quick is because they don’t have inmate (Indiscernible *1:42:19). They’ re the only people in the entire Facilities Department who doesn’t get any inmate labor help because of the equipment and stuff that they have access to. MR. a: Where was the office located, the comm techs’ office? MR. a: It was over - it was downstairs in the basement and it was between the Safety Office and Food Service. MR. a : Okay. That’s all I have. Agent MM, do you have anything else? MR. a : No, I don’t think so. MR. a: Mr. a. I know it’s been - I told you it’s going to be a short interview and it’s been almost two hours now. Thank you for being patient. I know we went back and forth. As | mentioned, you know, a couple things threw us for a loop because our idea of what transpired, how things transpired, complete changed at this point, but we might have questions, follow-up questions for you in the future, and is it okay if we reach back out EFTA00112736

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 99 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to you if we have more questions? MR. a : We’ll probably do it via email just so that we’re not taking more of your time and then you can have a moment to actually review it and then just send us something back, so we’re not going probably interview you again or anything like that. MR. a : Yeah, that’s fine. I just - like I said, the - you’re saying I threw you guys for a loop. You guys threw me for a loop. I mean, some of that stuff on that paperwork is just - I mean, reading it as it is, it just - I don't know, but yeah, I guess if you need me again just give me a shout, send me an email, or whatever the case may be, and I’1l send you the bill for lunch. MR. a: If you think about anything, if you feel like you thought about something that popped in, your memory got refreshed while you’re sitting there, you want - send me an email. MR. a: I got you. MR. a: Thank you again for taking the time to talk with us, and this is Special Agent ae The time is 12:50 p.m. EFTA00112737

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 100 1 and we are turning off the recorder. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EFTA00112738

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFICATE I hereby certify that the foregoing pages represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Lisa A. Losleben, Transcriber EFTA00112739