10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 DIGITALLY RECORDED WORN STATEMENT w OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL AUGUST 4, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 ra Hills, CA 91301 (818) 431-5800 EFTA00112450

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 APPEARANC ies) =) hy Q " OR GENERAL wi w K 8 WITN te) ive) ho i ° io No rar No EFTA00112451

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LIMITED ies) w co io ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 3 MR. Ee : The recorder is on. the U.S. Department of General. New MR. MR. interview with Federal Bureau of Inspector General, DOJ/OIG inve Today’s date and the time is 2:17 p.m. a the record, and spell your again, I am DOJ/OIG Senior EFTA00112452

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 a. Department of Justice/OIG. And last name is Ee These are my credentials. a Facilities manager. MCC, New York. BOP. N-O- B-I-L-E. MR. a : Thank you, sir. This is an official investigation into the death of inmate Jeffrey Epstein, and the surrounding circumstances, and you are being asked to voluntarily provide answers to our questions. Will you agree to a voluntary interview with the DOJ/OIG? MR. a : Yes. MR. QJ: «thank you, sir. This is the United States Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General, Warnings and Assurances to Employee Requested to Provide Information on a Voluntary Basis. “You are being asked to provide information as part of an investigation being conducted by the Office of the Inspector General. This investigation is being conducted pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended. This investigation pertains to job performance “ failure, or security failure.” I'm sorry, “and EFTA00112453

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 security failure. This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not have to answer questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you choose not to answer questions. Any statements you furnish may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceedings, or agency disciplinary proceedings, or both.” Then there’s a waiver section, saying, "I understand the Warnings and Assurances stated above and I am willing to make a statement and answer questions. No promises or threats have been made to me, and no pressure or coercion of any kind has been used against me.” And there’s an employee signature. If you want to take a look, and you agree, you can sign right there. Then, there’s employee name, where you can just print your name, then I will fill out the rest. Thank you, Mr. i. for printing and signing your name. MR. a: No problem. The time? MR. a : Yeah, I can put that. So, thank you, and also for dating it, 8/4/2021. I will put the time at 2:20 p.m. And the place is MMC New York. And I'm EFTA00112454

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a LIMITED OFFICIAL USE bet b a A R 3 3 rm =| oO a c re] k 0) uy o ri] its] Bb 3 a] fs) @ = b- ct 3 o fr] wu a ue] ai b- is] rt re} i] KR 4 name as the 6 signing on the signature for the witr 7 MR. a : And did you understand w io leave at any time. 12 Before starting the interview, I’d like to 13 D Mr. a. could you 14 right hand? Do you swear to 15 the truth during 16 Thank you, sir. 19 me know if you don’t understand any 20 I’ll try to rep is your curr 23 24 And what your 955 25 EFTA00112455

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LIMITED Oo Oo OFFICIAL U MR. a : What’s your social security number? MR. ee : And what is ar current MR. Ee : And where did you go to MR. a: Where is that located? York. MR. ae : And what did MR. a: Criminal justice. Like, MR. ae : And when was went there? EFTA00112456

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LIMITED ioe) w io ioe) its) OFFICIAL USE 8 MR. a : Like, late 9 Probably. I'm Bm OF ! on | « Wo > ny] rt Q pb ie) het (e) is ior with workir a] I worked for NYPD. a] long? Be from 5 around when to when? ra t A 5 | ke b 0] rh ct ct om © RR vi) Pb 3 bh wo Oo re) 5 i Great. And did you leave under favorable circumstances? ve. a: VR. a: MR. BJ: No. Mm-hmm. Any military And how long ha you served with the Federal Bureau of Prisons, Bb. ct 7 ct J D BOP? rs] H EFTA00112457

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LIMITED ies) w co io ioe) co OFFICIAL USE fe) @ he fe) c kK oO 3 rt kK fe) =] jon c t jen wu rt ci) = wu 7] oO w uw ct x K @ 3 D 3 o o Kh 2 } 0 oO = it) 3 o my on he 12) c ite} nh w is) = w ct oO from BOP training? It was. It was right away, training? MR. a: Uh-huh. Yeah. A couple MR. a : It’s not really important, but 20 MR. a : And what does that position, EFTA00112458

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 1 MR. a: Oversee the facilities department, which is all the trades, plumbing, ies) About how mar wi oe co io ioe) 14 Right now, 17 MR. ae: Associate wardens. 18 MR Okay. And at the time, 19 who was wardens? EFTA00112459

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE 11 position at MR. y manager, then. MR. And so, but t was the s onsibilities which you just d MR. a : And has that description, position description changed at all since -- MR. a : -- that time? Did you have any interactions or involvement with Epstein during his stay at the M mR. QR: No. MR. Ee : No? None at all? And did 9th and 10th 0 fh you work at the M MR. a : So, August 9th. And so, EFTA00112460

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LIMITED ies) w co ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE remember when -? No? was on vacation. MR. You were on vacation. know if you you had anybody acting in your the supervisor? Usually, if I go Do | (Phonetic Sp. plumber foreman. you would frequently put the foreman, Wou new with everyone Okay. Were there other you would also -- ld EFTA00112461

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LIMITED Oo Oo OFFICIAL U is. Who else if it wasn’t || would be MR. : , at that time. ma: MR. And who is MR. think d? And do you aware perly withi of 2019? “. No. aware at this time? n that EFTA00112462

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 14 1 MR. a: Now. Yeah. Yeah. 2 MR. a : At the time, you were not? ies) 5 MR. a : But now. Okay. And who 6 was responsible for making sure the cameras 7 were working properly on August 9th and 10th of 8 2019? wo id Ae a ct a wu ct time, there was one 10 only Comtech, I believe, which was a. I'm assuming 2 now you know, but please explain what happened, 3 and why the cameras weren’t working properly on 4 August 9th and 10th of 2019. So, do you know 15 now, after the fact? 16 MR. a: Why they weren’t working? 7 MR. ae : Correct. 8 MR. a: Failed recorders. Hard 9 drives. The system was old, from what I 20 understand. 21 MR. ae : Okay. And are you 22 familiar, at all, with that kind of, like, are 23 you familiar with the cameras, or are you, 24 like, technically -? 25 MR. a: I am a - I was a Comtech. EFTA00112463

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 15 ies) a So, you are familiar with wi aw K i) n 6 MR. a : Okay. do you know, like, was it something that happened often? 8 MR. a: Here, I don't know. But yes, so, if hard drives crap out, if more than two wo i=) crap nN WwW Fs) ' | at the time, after you 4 found out that the cameras were not recording 5 on August 9th and 10th, did you look into the oO matter? 7 MR. ae: I don’t even know. Ia ked 7) 8 questions and stuff, but I believe -. I don’t 9 know at what time the recorders were taking 20 from the -. The FBI took them. 21 MR. ae : Right. But I guess, did like | - did you 23 ask ma about, like, hey, what happened? Why 22 you ask - like, it sound 7] EFTA00112464

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LIMITED ies) w fos) ive) oO oo OFFICIAL USE -- no Correct. MR. a: -- and th given, that they went down, down. MR. down? MR. ee: reported the information to un. QR: remember if I did or do not MR. Did y I don’t - didn't MR. Would topic? me, I Of cours would have as remember. But I can Being you don’t remember what m t recording? And I -- did you learn? at’s what I was the recorder went know. ou ask if he anyone. honestly - I don’t ked a lot more Mm-hmm. 't say such a big deal, that if was, like, a EFTA00112465

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 17 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 such a blur right now, with everything. But knowing me, I probably did ask, and that’s - because there was a camera project that was in play already. MR. a : Okay. MR. a: And when I came here, the big focus was heating and electric, due to everything that happened at another institution. So, when I got here, all my focus was that stuff. And as things started getting better on the stuff that I was looking at, to take care of, which is the heating and the cooling, and the lights for the population, then I would work, too, some other things. And start getting those things working. MR. a : So, the cameras was on a list, but just down the list? MR. a: Was. It was - I think in 2018, they had a camera project started - and it was in the process of bidding for materials and stuff like that. MR. a : So, when you say “the ” process,” you just mean, like, no cameras were being replaced as of yet, you were talking about, like, just getting that process rolling EFTA00112466

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LIMITED ies) w co ioe) co OFFICIAL USE needed? MR. antiquated. MR. MR. told, was here. MR. going down, —: August 10th of 2019, ae: Correct. And why were new cameras Oh, old, they were were they frequently wu. was an issue that was And remind me again, when facilities man ger? May. May of 2019? Yeah. So, from May 2019 until do you recall the cameras and not recording? a: : wouldn’t know 100 percent. ald tell you that because I do a EFTA00112467

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 wo 1 daily check of the cameras. Back then, I did not. 4 MR. a : But back then, when this ies) a 5 happened, did you look into it to find out, 6 were they constantly going down? 7 MR. a: No. Not that I remember. MR. BB: «sf 1 dia. co i wo F 10 MR : So, this wasn’t anything 11 like the warden, or any kind of review team 2 came in and said, hey, can you get some 3 information about, like, what’s going on with 4 this camera system, and why wasn’t it recorded? 15 MR. a: No. I don’t remember ever 16 getting asked No. 7 MR. ae : Okay. }, when did you 8 first become aware that the cameras in the MCC 9 were not working properly on August 3th and 20 10th of 2019? 21 MR. a: Maybe when I came back from 22 vacation, it was. 23 MR. a : So, no one contacted you 24 while you were on vacation? 25 MR. EJ: No. EFTA00112468

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LIMITED ioe) w io ioe) © No Wa OFFICIAL USE 20 cameras were not working pro on MR. a : But he didn't -- MR. FY : -- questions. MR. a : -- he didn't call you know if trician technician, fd a. informed anyone that the cameras were not August 9 do not know. leaving, that the cameré recording, who would have he told? You know what? He might have told, said it EFTA00112469

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) I don't know institution. And he institution that day. sure. Oo rt = MR. QJ: = ve weren’t on. 21 if he came to the might have came to the But I'm not 100 percent was. And he noticed that they MR. QJ: 9 Okay. he noticed that they he notified his super What he’s saying is that, were down. But he - and iors, his supervisors, but he noticed right before then, of his shift at 2:00 p.m., and he was you come in at 6:00 a.m. told fix it tomorrow when Do you know anything I did not know that. So, if he says that he informed his supervisor, do you know who would have been that he would have informed? MR. a: Yeah, all the other people I could know is either the person I left acting, All right. EFTA00112470

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 22 Oo Oo c fer) I 5] Hh Oo Ki 3 my vacation. 24 sooner, EFTA00112471

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 23 1 MR. a: That, I do remember. If I 2 got a phone call from a. I know we did 3 speak, I don't remember if it was in person or 4 on the phone. That, I don’t remember. 5 MR. a : So, just - and again - 6 have you heard, like, in the news how this is, ~] like, such a big deal, and people are talking oo about, like, if -- mR. QJ: 9 yves. 10 MR. a : -- how are there no 11 cameras recording? 2 MR. QR: Ssves. wo 3 MR. a : So, I know it was a long 4 time ago, but I just want you to try to, like, 15 remember, like -- 8 part of this, was the camera thing. So, 9 whatever you can remember, that would be, you 20 know, great, but as far as, like, him notifying 21 you, you do not remember? 22 MR. a: I do not remember him 23 notifying -- 24 MR. a : And he’s not - and I'm 25 not saying -- EFTA00112472

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LIMITED ies) w co io ioe) co OFFICIAL USE MR. J: = -- is just one of those MR. Lael call from him, call me, b communication. MR. EJ: = so time, too? brand-new, was times that, MR. don’t remember gettinc ’ (Indiscernible *00:15:05). -- that he’s -- I know that. -- he said he did. This like him to to him for oO kK 3 = c oO a h ion ct oO wn Say, that’s -. -- was that prior to that so much, because I But there is EFTA00112473

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 25 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 her, or anything like that? MR. a: No. It was too new. As soon as - I could tell you, this part, I do remember. My uncle came down the stairs and said it, of the house that we were renting, and I said, no, man, really? And that’s when I called the institution, and spoke to her. I said, if you need me to come in, let me know. I'm in South Carolina. MR. a : Nice of you. What did she say? MR. J: No. MR. a : Okay. Do you know anything about [J being sent home on August 9th, 2019, knowing that the cameras were not working properly? Would have that been something that someone would have done? Would have someone said, don’t worry about it, take care of it tomorrow? MR. a: Possibly. MR. a : Yeah. So then, would that not surprise you, then, if someone said, that’s fine? MR. a: It all depends on -. I don’t think today, after everything, I think they EFTA00112474

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2 on 1 learned that those are things that need to get 2 fixed. 3 MR. : «Ss xup. 4 MR. a: But it wouldn’t surprise me. 5 Depending on the budget, and overtime, and 6 restrictions, and what they’re allowed. You 7 know, it wouldn’t surprise me. I know I 8 wouldn’t do it. I’ve learned a lot from other 9 issues, and that’s one that I learned. 11 MR. a: That’s just getting done and 2 - or at least bringing to the next person’s WwW hb 7 @ a 4 MR. ae : Okay. Do you know if 15 | was instructed on August 9th, 2019 to 16 fix the cameras the following day, on August 7 10th, 2019? 8 mR. QM: st don’t -- 9 MR. Ee : You don’t. 20 MR. QJ: «9 -- I don't know. 21 MR. ae : No. Do you believe, if 22 that was what was done, was that an acceptable 23 course of action? 24 MR. a: It depends on what camera it 25 was, what -. EFTA00112475

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 27 1 MR. Ee : So, if he’s saying 2 there’s 150 cameras, 75 of them were down and 3 not recording, and -- wi aw | | he’s told just fix it 6 tomorrow when you report to duty, do you think that would be acceptable? 8 MR. QJ: «No. I don’t -. No. He should get that recorded -- 11 MR. a: -- up and running. All right. And knowing wo nN 5 ive) that information, do you believe that | 4 Po would have sent him home if she 5 is, in the fact, the person that he notified? 16 MR. a: Yeah. I don’t think -- Lee) 5 1 1 wu 5 = Oo a. would have sent wo someone home on that night. I don’t think so. do you have 22 about that, to say, like, yup, I 23 told a supervisor, I can't recall what the 24 supervisor is, but I definitely told the 25 supervisor, and they told me to go home, and EFTA00112476

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 28 1 fix it the next day? 2 MR. a: I don’t see him as a liar, Ww o i ct H on 12] o ct | | 4 MR. a : Have you ever caught him w } =] wu ' B oO oO a -- I never caught him ina 7 lie. But just very - he’s very -. Lax, I 8 don't know, lax. He doesn't take any -. No 9 urgencies. 10 MR. a : Yeah. Yeah. He’s a very 11 laidback guy. Okay. So, do you who the 2 first person to find out that the cameras were 3 not working? Do you know who that would have 4 been? t wi a I don’t know. No. t oO a No. And you said you 7 didn't -. You found out from fF a, 8 || calling you? 9 MR. EJ: = No, no. 20 MR. QJ: 0h, you didn't even know 21 at that time 22 MR. QJ: No. No, I don’t - no -1 23 don’t remember. I don’t remember how or when I 24 found out. At some point, I did, and I don’t 25 know if it was when I came back, but it EFTA00112477

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2 wo 1 definitely wasn’t at that first phone call I 2 had with the institution. 3 MR. a : And were you ever 4 interviewed by the FBI, or anybody about this? 5 Or the OIG. Oo MR. a: Not about this. 7 MR. a : No, not about - and not 8 about the cameras or anything? 9 MR. a: Oh, yeah. I - yeah - 10 definitely was involved with them transporting 11 the recorders and stuff, and being in the room. 2 MR. a : But were you interviewed? Oh, no, no. 4 MR. QM: No.) So, thi first time you’re being interviewed -- 16 MR. a: Oh, yeah. 7 MR. ae : -- on this matter? Okay. ive) Fs) is the if) wn w 8 Aside from a. who had access to the camera 9 system? So, I guess I should preface this. Not 20 just for looking at the cameras on the TV, but 21 where would have the camera system been housed, 22 that could have -- 23 MR. QJ: 9vhe s -- 24 MR. a : -- could have knocked 25 them offline? EFTA00112478

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LIMITED ies) w fos) ive) oO oo OFFICIAL USE 30 ay. And would the SIS the techniciar and the the SIA, would they h ability that camera system within oO Hh Bh pb. 0 0) their to that office were Fs) me oO o be bh oO o + o a a it) @ rt J ii) _ oO a n 5 I didn't know if they - ct J o } oO a 0 Q Bp 5 wu separate areas? The recorders? Right. 3) No. They’re in -. So, two doors to go through. Yeah. 5 So, is anybody ne of them EFTA00112479

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE wo ray 1 them could have theoretically knocked the 2 camera system offline? i) sibly. WwW a ae] fe) un U was that 5 a fully-staffed office at the time, are you 6 aware? co a oO AJ you’ re talking abo 2 MR. a : Could either you or 3 a. or anyone else for that matter, got 4 to that camera system without 5 you in? 16 MR. QJ: 9No. Not that I -- - every time that I’ve had Lee) 5 1 9 to go in there, one of the comtechs were with 20 me, and we always - from what I tand - we to let us in. 24 camera system, 25 allowed him in to enter that office? EFTA00112480

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 32 1 MR. a: And I believe there was at t - and I don’t know wi N k i) ul] o ies) 7 o ah, had to stay with them, or let them in at V 4 some point, on an off hour, and it might not w be related to this, but to work on the Les] Fs) uw ) kK 0 it] u ) that means they wo i=) 2 3 5 who from SIS was in charge at that time? c oO Fs) 4 ] oO captain. The captain. 7 MR. J: wa an SIS lieutenant at the time? 9 MR. a : So, SIA back then, I don’t 20 know if | was still here or not. | 21 || (Phonetic Sp. *00: 22 some point. And Lieutenant [J was the A ; there an SIA, or was U co mn wu rt 23 lieutenant for a while. 25 MR. ae: And I think - remember. EFTA00112481

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL wo ot) USE MR. Was it a similar situation now, whereas the SIA was actually downstairs, and the lieutenant was upstairs? Correct. the lieutenant is upstairs wasn’t 3) K 1) 0) All right. in the room -— Neither are they. lieutenant the office here. door here for the tech that’s all within the EFTA00112482

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LIMITED w ~] ive) OFFICIAL USE Wo rf So, you have the SIS - that back then, it was the captain's office, which is now an AW’ s office. Next to it is this office I'm talking about. MR. a : So, who would be in the office that where the cameras were located? The technicians? MR. a: The technicians. MR. a : Okay. Just the tect not the lieutenant, or -- MR. a: Yeah, it’s always -- MR. QJ: -- the sia? MR. a: -- yeah. MR. QR: Okay. MR. a: And again, I was very new there. But yeah, the lieutenant sat in their office, with two other desks. MR. a : Okay. Do you know anyone could have - the way that it all if happened - do you know if anyone could have intentionally taken the cameras offline, or stopped them from recording? Especially being a Comtech guy yourself. MR. a: If it crashed, anything is possible. I mean, you could do anything, and EFTA00112483

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) Ww wi hurt the hard drive. If two hard drives were down. Yeah. MR. a: If they disconnected, that’s a different story. They don’t just disconnect. MR. a : And do you know anything about it? Did you research it at all to find out, like, what happened? MR. a: No. By the time I got here, it was -. MR. Ee : Said and done. When was the next time you reported to work? MR. a: I would guess Monday. MR. ae : Okay. And by that time, were they basically already pulled and everything, by the FBI? MR. a: I don’t know. No, because they had to come here. I know I sat with them for a while, downloading stuff. And I can't remember what incident that was. MR. a : And weren’t they, like - at the time - weren’t they saying, like, how could have this happened? How are these not recording? MR. a : I don’t -. No, because we EFTA00112484

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LIMITED w ~] OFFICIAL USE 36 didn't -. All they were doing was taking stuff off the hard drive. They weren’t watching anything. MR. QM: «Right, right. MR. a: They were just -. They didn't know what they were taking yet. MR. a : Okay. Do you know if, at that time, you knew that the cameras were not recording? Do you when that was - when it was learned that nothing recorded here? MR. QJ: =No. I don’t. MR. a : You don't know? And again, you can't remember any conversations you had with J, MR. a: No. Not - no - not -. I don’t remember if it was - like I said - the 7] pecific to that matter? Monday I came back, or what. I don’t remember. MR. a : Yeah, yeah. And I'm not asking for a specific conversation. I'm just talking about, like, in general, what you learned about, like, how that happened. And, like, what was done, and all that. MR. a: The cause of it going down? MR. a : Sure. What was the cause of it going down? EFTA00112485

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] ive) lo —] MR. a: The cause. Yeah. I don’t know exact cause. MR. a : Okay. MR. QJ: 9aAnd if he would have just told me, yeah, the hard drives crapped out, that would have been sufficed for me to hear because I know the hard drives do crap out. MR. a : Okay. But you just can't remember if they had before that time, since you were there since May? MR. QJ: No. I don’t. MR. a : Okay. Could | have intentionally taken the cameras offline, or stopped them from recording? MR. a: Anybody could do anything. I don’t think -. I don’t think he’s that type of person. MR. a : Okay. Do you have any reason to believe that anyone intentionally took the cameras offline, or stopped them from > recording on or around August 9th, 2019? c MR. a: I don’t think anybody did intentionally. MR. a : Okay. Prior to August 10th, 2019, how often would the cameras go EFTA00112486

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 down, go offline, stop recording? Weekly? Monthly? MR. a: From when? MR. a : Prior to August 10th. MR. a : I don't know. MR. a : Okay. What steps have you taken to correct the wrong? MR. a: So, we had a new system put in, then that got taken. We had a new system put in, and corrective action from that point is, we daily, on the weekdays, the only time when I'm here, or my general foreman, we look at every camera, make sure they’re all up and running. I check each recorder and make sure the recorder is actually running. After that, I’1l send an email out to the full exec staff, SIS. Full exec staff and SIS, comtechs, that all cameras are working, or whatever camera is not working. MR. a: Recently, we have no issues. MR. a : Do you know if the cameras were working when you went on vacation, prior to August 10th, 2019? Do you know if the cameras were working or not working at that 38 EFTA00112487

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 39 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 point? MR. a: I do not know. MR. a : You don’t know. Would you ever independently check on the camera system yourself, at that point? MR. a: No, because I didn't even have rights to the cameras back then. MR. a : Okay. Now, as far as documentation, it’s our understanding that any time that there was a problem with the cameras, it would have to be called in to get a work order or something like that. Do you know anything about that? MR. QJ: §9wWork orders should be generated. They’re not generated all the time. Depending on, hey, if it’s an emergency situation, like a flood, a camera, let’s get it up and running, and then follow it up with an email. If the person does not put a work order, if the person doesn’t put a work order in, I’ll try to put a work order. If I forget, then that one didn't get a work order. MR. a : Okay. So, this is coming from way up on high, like, to try to obtain any work orders, or documentation from the August EFTA00112488

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LIMITED ies) w co wo i=) ive) oO co OFFICIAL 9th and 10th, know if it know. able a Janu¢ USE if to, ke was 40 and leading up to that point. Definitely. Were you able to do that? a: I could run a sure. report, Awesome. And I didn't that was something that we had to do. contractor, or I didn't know something that was kept in-house. what. Or it’s on the computer. All right. those dates, I don’t over the oO better answer. Fantastic. Yeah. tomorrow, and let you so, yeah, if you were guess, from anything up until August 10th of EFTA00112489

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 41 w ~] 10 11 12 18 19 20 2019. MR. QJ: 9 Okay. MR. a : Just so it’s, you know, we can at least see what was happening, leading up to it, as well as if there was anything generated, on specifically on that (Indiscernible *00:28:11). MR. a: January. MR. a : So, I guess just January lst, 2019 to August 10th, 2019. Or just to capture it, maybe do August, like, that Monday, the 12th. Or never mind. That Tuesday. But just cameras? MR. QJ: 31 don't know. Would there be -? Is there another thing that went down? MR. a: No. I'm just saying. So, I would have to do a search for anything with the uw ” description of “cam. MR. Ee : Yeah. So, whatever would cover us for these cameras going down. MR. QJ: 911 right. MR. ae : So, whether it’s SHU cameras, it’s MCC cameras, but primarily, we want to know, these cameras went down. And so, the question is, when was it reported? Who EFTA00112490

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 42 w ~] wo 10 11 ive) reported it? You know, what was reported, and how many times, prior to that time, were cameras going down, and what was reported, and what was done -- MR. QJ: 9 Okay. MR. a : -- and what were the problems, how was it resolved? That kind of Ph stuff. MR. BJ: 9 Okay. MR, a : So, they just want to, you know, obviously, with the oversights on this thing, you know, the camera thing is kind of a big deal because, apparently, like, none of the cameras in the SHU were working, correct? Or recording. MR. EJ: No. 1 -- MR. ae : Do you know that? MR. a: -- I believe there wa least one, because I saw footage and some kind at 07) of -- MR. a : Well, this one, right? MR. QJ: 9 -- Yeah. MR. a : Do you know of any other camera other than this? Because this w ry 13) actually right outside of Ten South. EFTA00112491

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 43 1 MR. QJ: $9 But that’s suv. Right, right, right. iv) ) K fi rr n 4 MR. a : But, I mean, none of, w t b- x oO i} i} io t Ww rs] H a wu ime = i?) i= ~ Q 0 i) bh bh 0) | its) 24 was on news or something. 25 MR. a : Oh, you -- EFTA00112492

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 44 ies) w 7 MR. co MR. And ecording? ay. And was that ing that you talked about with a: 15 after the -- ioe) fF ie] ig ie) where were we? 19 MR. a : a When he’s 20 mentioning cameras, he’s talking rd he’s talking about any equipment to the cameras, any network update its] 23 things like that. Anything involving the 24 cameras ther. EFTA00112493

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 45 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 purposes, I can guarantee, no one ever put a work order in if a hard drive crashed, or anything like that. But if a camera went down, that - for some reason - that, you get a more of a response for a TMS. The recorder and thinking about it now, they should put a work order in, would only be the comtechs that would be noticing it, because they’1ll be getting the error in the camera room. MR. a: So, a couple things. What’s TMS? MR. a: So, that’s the work - that’s where the work orders are generated from. It’s called TMS, or CMMS. Computer Monitoring System. MR. a: It’s at an outside firm? MR. a: Oh, it’s just a software -- MR. a: -- okay. You guys use. D MR. a: It’s a - yeah - it’s a system that facilities uses throughout the Bureau. MR. a: Okay. And do you guys have specific contracts with specific companies that does the upgrades for you guys, or work for you EFTA00112494

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 46 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 22 guys? MR. a: That’s all in Central office. MR. a: What if Central Office says that they would give approval, but it was MCC that had locally handled the, like, you got your own people that service everything? MR. QJ: No. We don’t -. Hold on. For work orders? MR. QJ: 9 Yeah. MR. EJ: No. MR. a : So, I thought when we had talked to a. he had mentioned that, like, it was a contractor that was doing this stuff. He had to call a contractor, some kind of contract site. MR. a: Maybe for tech support, on fixing. NICE (Phonetic Sp. *00:31:55). NICE is - or SIGNET (Phonetic Sp. *00:31:57) - SIGNET is the contractor that works on the NICE equipment. MR. QM: nd was NICE -. What wasn’t here before? I don’t understand. MR. a: That’s what’s in here now, also. Quigno (Phonetic Sp. *00:32:09), or whatever they changed the names to. EFTA00112495

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LIMITED ies) w fos) wo ive) co OFFICIAL we've be specifically, I guess, including any and all sys documentation, communications/ USE s still SIGNET. was would have to thought he call the 9th wo and tell him this is what’s accurate. that is what y MR. MR. MR. you and well as the time period and contractor going EFTA00112496

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 48 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) leading up to August 10th, 2019. MR. a: And I believe we did have the contractor here, after the fact. Or on the phone. Definitely, I know for a fact, that the FBI, when they were trying to upload all the information, was definitely on the phone. MR. a : Okay. MR. a: With - and again, I can't remember if it was this incident, the gun incident. I dont -. MR, Ee : So, a. when we were speaking with him, seemed to - from my recollection - indicate that it was the contractor that he would have called. They would have had making notes on their ends. MR. a: 100 percent that would be -. And then, that’s where you would -- MR. a : So, how would you get -- MR. a: -- that’s who you would call. MR. QJ: | -— how would we get that number? MR. a: Oh, I can -. Yeah. I have all their numbers. MR. a : Okay. So, and do we have EFTA00112497

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 4 MMM: §9= t's SIGNET Technologies. a : Can you say, when you talk to -. When you talk to BOP/OIA, or who wo N Fs ies) 4 was it that we -? Did you talk to them about uw tt y nt] + 4 8 9 and of it -- national contr 1 MR. a: -- so, that’s what Oo i) hm t it] fu ive) 5 MR. a : -- we'll deal with -- t o Fs K 4) w x Lee) 5 | 1 we'll deal with our end. And if you were able to -- 21 number with that. heir phone 25 provide us with that informati EFTA00112498

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 50 ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) MR. QJ: 9=ott’s not -. Yeah. MR. a : -- because there’s probably not - it’s probably going to have to come directly from the BOP, for that information, because you’re their direct customer. And we can try to explain we’re OIG, and we have -. MR. a: Once I call them, and I t ell them, you can talk to this person, I’ve done it with - in the past - with other agencies. I’ve ever saw an issue. MR. a : Okay. Great. Yeah. MR. QJ: 9 Yeah. MR. a: Whatever I could do. MR. a : Awesome. We appreciate MR. a: That’s an easy one. MR. a : Thank you. MR. a: But just so we’re clear, work ystem internal, that if somebody’s orders is a sg light went out, you put a work order in, and we come and fix it. It doesn't always work, because people are, hey, you’re walking by, my light is out. MR. QM: «sell, in this case, if EFTA00112499

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE wo rary 1 | is the person who recognized that the cameras were out, and he’s the one that 3 actually going to fix it the next day, he 4 probably wouldn’t have put in a work order for 5 himself, would he? 6 MR. a: You should, but it’s unrealistic. co Fs) Okay. wo F They don’t do it. 10 MR. a : Right. So, we’re not 11 going to probably find anything -- Wa id | | fh K 2) 3 ct oe i) rt "0 ro) — fu ket 15 MR. QM: So, we’1l check, but 16 yeah, and again, according to him, my 7 understanding was, no, no, no, it’s the 8 contractor that I called, it’s the contractor 9 would have that document. No i=) id And to help him through the 21 issues, I would say that’s very accurate that 22 he would call the contract right away. 23 MR. a : Okay. So, yeah. So, 24 that’s the documentation we need -- EFTA00112500

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 52 w ~] wo 10 11 MR. Ee : -- to get a hold of. MR. a: Just a quick question. If they call, if you call the contractor, does the contractor send, like, an email confirmation, hey, listen, we’re coming on this day? MR. EJ: «No. But they might have phone. I don't know. MR. a: Do they bill them? Like, bey, the MCC called me, I'm going to bill you for these hours? MR. a: No, because it’s such a large contract. I don't -. We’ve -. I don’t know. I'm going to have to ask -- MR. QJ: 9 Okay. MR. a: -- Steve Smith is a guy from SIGNET. He’s the salesper to on. So, he might have records of when they spoke to people, or sent a technician down here. MR. a: Perfect. MR. BJ: 9 Yeah. MR. a : Okay. Who had knowledge that the outdated camera system needed replacing? MR. a: It was prior to me being here because the camera project. EFTA00112501

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LIMITED ies) w co wo ive) co OFFICIAL USE wo ive) MR. Ee : So, who would have known about the camera project, though? MR. a : It would have to be the region. Like, that’s -- MR. a: -- the warden, the region -- MR. a : -- would the lieutenants have -- would have -? Yeah, but, and again, higher. and higher. MR. a: Ask the question again. MR. ae : So, who had knowledge needed —. It MR. a: I wouldn’t even would have to be from the facility side, and the upper mana to say, yeah, we need to do something. EFTA00112502

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 54 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 know, unless the lieutenant was looking, they could see if it’s a blurry camera, you know, (Indiscernible *00:36:26). MR. a : And when I say you need to replace them, I'm talking about specifically not recording. So, my understanding is, also, you could - looking at the screen, everything was live monitoring, but nothing was recording. MR. a: Correct. So, and I can explain that to you. So, back in the day, some of them still, right now, we’re still in the process of changing everything over. So, a camera would go to a multi-plexer. That’s not a recording device. So, that’s a device that splits multiple cameras into multiple images. Then from there, it would go to - then it would go out, and into the recorder. So, yes, you would never know - sitting in the lieutenant’s office, or in control, because that’s where our multi-monitors are - you would never know that a camera was down. MR. a : How would you know that a camera wasn’t recording? MR. a: You would have to go into NICE - that’s the computer system - every day, EFTA00112503

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 uw wm and look and see if there’s a red X on any of the cameras, then check the recorders and see if any of the recorders went down. MR. a : And who would be able to get into NICE? MR. QJ: §9Sso, NICE should - I don't know who had access back then - your lieutenants, SIS, the Comtechs, computer services, the warden. MR. a : So, if they went in, all of these people went in, and there’s a red X, they would know it wasn’t recording? MR. a : Yes. Yeah. A red X. MR. QJ: 9 And from going into NICE, can you take down any of the cameras and stop them from recording? MR. a : No. You would need to have a site ability -. No, not -. The access that those people have, no. MR. QJ: So, by looking at those cameras, you could see, it wasn’t recording. But they couldn’t actually stop it from recording from that system. MR. a: No. No. Not with the rights that they should be given, no. EFTA00112504

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 56 oO io ioe) oO oo able to (Indiscernible MR. a : The comtechs not recording? MR. a: Right. MR. ae : And who is -- MR. Ee : -- computer se MR. ae: | (Phonetic Sp. FO lt. 4 MR. : a. And how do you name, EFTA00112505

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 57 oO wo ioe) oO co offhand? ME = a. MR. MR. MR. MR. a : Is he in R&D? a: which -- Comtech -- MR. ae: Mm-hmm. I think they might EFTA00112506

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ~] wo 10 11 wo oo they have those administrative rights, build, just different levels, or different programs. MR. a : And is that the way - if someone wanted to take it offline - is that the way to do it, or would have they had to physically gone into the SIS lieutenants office and done something in there? MR. a: Either way. MR. a : Either way it could have? Okay. MR. a : I had a follow up on that. MR. a : Go ahea MR. a: When they call, let’s say, they were calling the contractor to come for 0 ameras going down, could the contractor access oO ur system remotely -- mR. QR: No. MR. a : -- to check on it? They would physically have to be in here? MR. QR: ves. MR. a: Do you know if our system was hooked up to be -- mR. GR: No. MR. ae: -- networked? (Indiscernible EFTA00112507

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE uw ite] 1 *00:39:47) look at it? 2 No. Not at that time. 3 (Indiscernible *00:39:47). 4 5 That’s too old of a system. 6 different story. 7 But they would have to be 8 9 No. Now, they could - now, 10 people could see it, central office and the 11 region. Because now, it’s hooked up to the 2 LAN. 3 MR. a: On that same note, if someone 4 accessed the system, is there a database that 15 keeps track of who accessed it? 16 MR. a: I don’t -. That’s above me. I don’t -. That would be more of SIGNET would 8 be able to tell you that. 9 MR. , : Okay. 20 MR. QJ: 9 Software. 21 MR. QJ: okay. So, that -. 22 MR. a: I would guess yes, but I'm 23 not 100 percent sure. 24 MR. a : Okay. 25 MR. a : So, back to the knowledge EFTA00112508

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 60 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 of the outdated camera system, and who knew it needed to be replaced. You said it was basically, like, above the lieutenants? MR. a: Yeah, because the money comes from the region. So, in 2018, they got a camera project. So, the project is a request. Sometimes, it’s a request from the warden, and it goes up to the RD, asking for whatever the project is. Or central office or the region just says, here, it’s time for an upgrade due to age, or problems, or too much money you’re putting in for it. So, it’s either way, it can go. MR. QJ: «411 right. So, by, in this case, I guess, the reason why I'm asking is, who in our institution, prior to August 93th or 10th, would have known that there were issues with the camera system? MR. a : The warden would have to MR. a : The warden. AWs? MR. a : The captain? MR. a: Yes. MR. a: Any of the lieutenants? EFTA00112509

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 61 1 Ops Lieutenants? Activities lieutenants? 2 MR. a: Yeah. I don’t think they WwW O c B a \ 4 MR. a : Okay. And then, 5 facilities? 6 MR. a: Maybe they knew from hearing 7 something, but they wouldn’t be part of a 8 planned -. 9 MR. a : Yeah. I'm not talking 10 about procuring something. What I'm talking 11 about is, like, who knew that there was 2 problems with the cameras? 3 MR. a: So then, that’s anybody can 4 know. 15 MR a : So, anybody never would 16 have probably knew that there was problems with 7 the camera system 8 mR. BR: ves. 9 MR. Ee : Okay. But certainly, the 20 warden, and the AWs, and the captain, and 21 facilities knew that it needed to be replaced? 24 in place, you said? EFTA00112510

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. QJ: «411 right. 2 the plan to get it? So, you said in WwW aj i co 5 the bid start? (Indiscernible *0 6 MR. a: The contract was awarded. =) Fs) 8 MR. QJ: 9 yeah. 9 MR. a : To who? 10 MR. a: I don’t even remember. 11 wasn’t here then. But there was When I got 2 here, October of '19 is when I finally 3 straightened out some issues with wire issues, 4 and something, and we started to get in the 15 ball really rolling on cameras. 8 MR. a: Yeah. It was 9 at that point. It wasn’t someone 20 were all doing it in-house. We were just 21 getting the material. So, the wire, 22 needed for the jobs, the cameras 23 MR. a : And you’re doing it 24 in-house? You were just -? Okay. 25 MR. a: Yeah. Partial 0:42:01). The contract awarded to a specific contractor? a distributor, EFTA00112511

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 63 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 house. Part was the contractor was going to come. So, the original thing was, prior to August, was - in the (Indiscernible *00:42:52) - was, we were going to run all the wires to every location, and then, the contractor, SIGNET, was going to come and install the cameras. MR. a : Okay. Cool. I guess, can we just add to this, then, any kind of, like, when has solicitation went out, and what, you know, when that was awarded? Because this is something - again - the higher ups are wanting to know, you know, who knows? Was there a system in place to get something? Did senior management know? Who knew and when? These are all those questions that we’re getting, as far as, like -- MR. Ee : -- they want to know specifically what was going on with this camera system. MR. a: No problem. MR. a : And, you know? Did | ever ask for a new camera system, at any time? MR. a: I'm sure he did. He was -. EFTA00112512

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 64 tha wa @ 7) 1 That was one thing h t, and the fire 2 alarm - ar i) the two things. MR. a : That he was always 4 talking about? a: When I first got here. 6 MR. a : That he was saying when ies) wi aw fos) i K i) wu 5) wo -- (Indiscernible i=) * 2 MR. a : -- he mentioned it to you prior to August 9th, we need a new one? 4 MR. a: Well, yeah, we were -. Well, ive) 5 at that time, we were already in 16 doing it, from ‘18. Lee) 5 nds like it was 20 a slow proce Like, it was a proce 21 was on the 23 he was the only Comtech. 24 MR. a : Right. But I mean, 25 didn’t you say, like, first you wanted to do EFTA00112513

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 65 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 this, and then you wanted to do this, and the cameras were kind of, like, down the road? MR. a: Correct. In my mind, when I first got here, the reason why I came here was the infrastructure of heating and cooling. MR. a : Right. MR. a : And yes, but he was the only Comtech, that could be done conjunctionally, a little task, too big of a task for one person. And I wasn’t able to focus directly on that, until I got other things squared away with temperature readings, and stuff like that. MR. a : So, prior to August 10th, obviously, it became a priority. Prior to August 10th, what was the plan for getting a new camera system? MR. a : At that time, I don’t even think we had all the wires and stuff yet. I don’t know when we got all that, but it did take a while. But once we got it, that’s when we started working on it. MR. a : Okay. Now, were new wiring and stuff being - were they started at all, replacing cameras, and things like that, prior to August 10th? EFTA00112514

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LIMITED ies) w fos) wo nN ive) co OFFICIAL USE 66 MR. a: I don’t think so, but I'm not sure. MR. a : Okay. What actions u oO 2>n on or around August 9th, 2010? Or sorry. August 9th, 2019. When J recognizes that the cameras were not working properly, or recording? What should have he MR. a : Tell his supervis MR. QM: | nd should have he called should have he told yy | if he was acting? Who should have he told? Chain of command. ma. If no results there, move it up to the AW. And -. MR. ae : So, the next person, snc And do you know if ion was taken? appropriate ac MR. a: I don’t. MR. a : No. Okay. Before rt EFTA00112515

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 67 want to talk to about on that 2 3 No. 4 Prior to us 5 so, showed you this, is this the 6 one you said that you knew that was working in the SHU? MR. a: That’s the only one I’ve reah co a o n @ i) =) het @ fu i=) a All right. 1 just initial and dating that? It’s just to say 2 that’s what we’re looking at. ive) Fs) How many cameras should have 0 Ph r oy 3 me om o w Lon 5 MR. a: I don't know off the t ct a fu rt co EFTA00112516

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] wo 10 11 ive) oF oo MR. a: Every range. MR. a : -- on every range. MR. a: Every range. Right. MR. QJ: Right. MR. a: Six ranges. Six cameras. MR. QM: okay. un. SE: four. MR. a : And is your understanding that none of the ranges were -. None of the (Indiscernible *00:46:27) cameras on any of the cameras were recording? wu MR. QJ: 9oRight. which, if they went, if this went to a different recorder, and the recorder went down, that is possible. So, if you have four cameras, in this recorder, four cameras in this recorder, and this recorder it) goes down, you’re going to lose the four cameras here, but these, you’ll see. MR. Ee : All right. So, that’s what I was going to ask, is: why would this one have worked, and none of the others? Because think there was something, like, ten cameras in the SHU, and this is the only one that works. MR. a : Because then that one was EFTA00112517

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE w ~] wo 10 11 ive) oy \o plugged into a different recorder. MR. a : Okay. So, whatever recorder everyone else was on -- MR. a : -- if those went down, this one -- MR. a: Correct. MR. a : -- is up. MR. a: And there’s 96 cameras to a recorder. MR. Ee : Okay. Is that weird that one camera of this, you know, if there were ten cameras, one was on one recorder, and nine were on another? Is that odd? MR. a: It’s - no. I see where you’re going -. No. Because it all depends on when you placed them in. So, usually, if, you know, you’re doing, let’s say this area, you’re going to take all your wires, and you're going to plug it into next slots, as you MR. : e-hon. MR. a: So, yeah. Eventually, if re going. we're still in the same area, and this is the last camera, you're going to plug it in - and the recorder fills up - you're going to plug it EFTA00112518

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 1 into the next recorder, and keep on going. 2 MR. a : Gotcha. So, it’s not, like, you would take everything out, and put it ies) 4 with -- w a 5 fo) K H oO a rt 8 MR. a : -- because it may have Oo oO 0) a 3 a p 0 ' | 10 MR. a: Because sometimes you can't. MR. a : -- that may have been, like, the latest and greatest camera, or N Fs ive) 4 something? 5 MR. a: Correct. Or it could have thought of adding that camera, f fo] on 1) o o wu 5 wu Mh ct oO H 7 and then, it’s all the way at the bottom. Lee) 5 Great. All right. What wo is your understanding of what happened to 20 Epstein on August 9th and 10th, 2019? 21 MR. ae: Suicide was committed. 22 MR. ae : Okay. What is your 23 understanding of how he died? 24 MR. a : Suicide. 25 MR. a : But by what means? EFTA00112519

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 71 Strangulation. 2 you know if it was 3 n, or -? 4 Hanging. 5 nging. Do you have any 6 information with regard to any suspicious activity that occurred on August 9th or 10th, 8 2019, leading up to the discovery of Epstein in oO 7 Bb 103) ie) oO BR bh °o a fu he b t wu Q mw P- Ss 2 information with regard to any suspicious 3 activity that occurred on August 9th or 10th, 4 2019, leading up to the discovery -? t oO a Oo Okay. What do you know , rt) = bp. Kh om 7 about someone else taking Epstein I don’t know. 9 MR. Ee : And what do you know 20 about other’s assisting with taking Lee) 5 Q t ue] n rt @ a i] No Nm a MR. ae: Don't know. a : Did Epstein take his own No ion) a) 25 MR. ae: I don’t know. EFTA00112520

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. Ee : You don’t know? ie) WwW N Od K nm rn) wv I H on k your understanding, 5 MR 6 MR Did Epstein act al I would be under the co a] 9 10 you have any 11 involvement with Epstein’s death? 12 MR. GJ: No. MR. a : Did you have a 14 involvement with the cameras ioe) ing down within No. 17 MR. ae : What would have preventec 18 Epstein’s death? That is, what act 1s should 19 have been taken to s death 21 MR. ae : After hearing what you know, and being in the position that you know, 23 what do you believe -? 24 MR. a : Rounds and doing their job. 25 MR. a : So, you heard that they EFTA00112521

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) ~) a weren’t conducting rounds, they weren’t conducting counts? MR. a: That’s what I heard. MR. QJ: the suv staff. from going down, as they did on or around wo August 9th, 201 MR, a: Maintenance. Money. I mean, there’s a whole, you know, upkeep of all the - enough staff to be able to tasked with every job. MR. ae : So, should have - of | was the only Comtech - should have been more than one Comtech? MR. a: Yes. 100 percent. MR. a : So, we were way he MCC? c i] jon oO RK n cr w eh Hh i] on a Oo ia] o wu rt cr have there been someone that, if he was leaving at 2:00 p.m., should have there been another person that basically was from the 2:00 to 10:00 shift? EFTA00112522

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LIMITED ioe) w io ioe) © OFFICIAL USE MR. Not ev multiple bodies. Two or There’s multiple -. It’ Comtech position MR. Two. he did en that. Just at three. You have Ss not just d how now? a ther 3) hh J ar < wu 0) 74 least them. ither right or wrong, on EFTA00112523

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE he -- MR. a: That’s what he said. MR. a : -- called a supervisor -- MR. QJ: -- bot 1 I don't think he -- right. MR. a: So, yes. So he’s saying, is] don’t think he called -- , if he did what then I don’t believe there’s -. I think he tried to fix the issue. Okay. A You mentione ny questions on d - I mean, I might have misheard it - you mentioned that, back then, if the (Indiscernib goes down, that would not have a work order or something like just be the cam @ ras going down would have triggered it? MR. a: No, no. So, plumbing issue, the computer, TMS -- le *00:51:33) triggered work, that. It would itself. That oF) when you have a or a light, camera, you go on EFTA00112524

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 76 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a: Okay. MR. a: -- and you put a work order, or that person, if it’s your office, you would put the work order in, or your department, you would have someone that put a work order in. What I'm saying is, if a hard drive goes down, nine out of ten, the comtechs, whoever it is, will change it, and a work order is never going to get put in. We would never know. Even though we should because I should be accounting for that item, dollar-wise. So, we know what we're spending, we know there’s time to the person, and there’s money, cost to that job. MR. QJ: 9 Okay. MR. a: To understand where our time is, and money. As much as I enforce it, it does, it gets hectic and people forget, or just don’t do it. And me, as a supervisor, have to stay on top of them, to keep on reminding them to do that. We have gotten much, much, much better on that. But a camera going down, especially now that I do it on emails and everything, it’s easier to track, because every day, I'm watching it. MR. a: The last question. As far as EFTA00112525

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 77 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 you know, is that the first time that the hard drives ever went down? MR. : Here? 7 MR. a : Yeah. Here. On August 9th, that’s when -. MR. a: I don’t know if they went down. I was too new, at that point. But was I told, ever? Yes. I believe I was told that that does happen. And I know because I’ve worked in Brooklyn, with the same type of system. So, as it gets older, the hard drives do start going bad. MR. a : And there were no -. Were there any redundancies in place to make sure that the failure doesn't happen? MR. a: There is until two - if two hard drives fail, then the recorder shuts down. MR. a: And this is -. MR. a : So, only one hard drive, it’ll still - that’s where your -. It’1ll still work. The second one goes, then the whole system goes down. MR. a: And in this case, which ones went down? Do you know? MR. a: I don't know. EFTA00112526

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 78 wi ~] 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. a: Okay. Okay. MR. a: I don’t even know if recorders did go down. MR. a : Okay. MR. a : You know, it’s only what I was told. And if I'm -. I can't remember 100 percent if it was -. I know the recorders went down. If it was because of the hard drive, I don’t remember that. Specifically. MR. a : Now, were you told not to look into the issue? MR. J: No. MR. a : No? Do you think that it’s something that you should have looked into, then, a little more, as far as what happened there, or why aren't these recorders, or why aren't these cameras recording, and why half of the cameras in the MCC were down? MR. a : I don’t remember exactly, how quick they seized the recorders. And that might have been the reason why I wasn’t able to - because if I remember correctly, we got a new system -. MR. a : Yeah, and I don’t even mean you physically going in. I mean, just EFTA00112527

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LIMITED ies) w oO wo i=) N ive) oO co wo No Nm No ion) OFFICIAL USE 79 talking to | about it. MR. a: I did talk to F about, king -. I'm sure I’ve asked him what a as happened. At some point, I had to. I can't remember the exact - and I'm usually good at remembering things - I just can't remember at] exactly talking to him specifically right at this time. MR. a : So, when you, like, read, like, the news reports about, like, oh, you know, there’s definitely outside involvement or internal involvement -- MR. ae : -- with regards to these cameras and stuff, it doesn't, like, spark any MR. QJ: =No. No. -- of, like, well, I talked to my camera guy, and I know this? MR. J: No. MR. a : No. And again, at sone point, I do - after talking a lot more - I do Okay. EFTA00112528

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 80 1 remember something. It’s very vague on -. 2 Again, you have to remember, there was ina 3 short instance, stem was taken 4 from us twice. So, I could be confusing the 5 gun issue with the Epstein. oO 5 Py b si a rt I don’t want to 8 misspeak and say the wrong thing. I'm trying 9 to remember as much as I can about what 10 happened August of 2019. 11 MR. Ee : Right. Because was it 2 that other action, incident you’re talking ive) about actually happened in August of 2019, as 4 well, didn't it? F F Oo w a a | fe) 0 o R C wu Han oo 5 r 7) rt) o A Cc fw ial hed 21 MR. ae : Oh, okay. So, it wasn’t 22 too close. But they were both taken. Okay. No? So, just those two EFTA00112529

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LIMITED ies) w co ive) oO co OFFICIAL USE Yeah. Well, yeah, and that, at that point, you would have to ask ma who had rights to NICE at that time. don’t even know if the lieutenants - the I'm almost positive, did. And they would be MR. a : No. No, no, no, no. that’s all I mean. I mean -- Yeah, yeah, yeah, MR. Ee : -- take the -- That would be -- MR. ae : -- take that off. Becaus el SIS, able to be able that would be MR. ae: -- yeah, that would have to MR. a : And that’s what I mean by think EFTA00112530

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE B82 w ~] wo 10 11 ive) you said -- the Comtech. And again, I don’t know if he had rights to it or not. He wasn’t a Comtech when I got here. MR. a : Okay. Anything we’re missing on that camera system i MR. a: No. I - again - I wish I could remember. I'm burnt out over this. It’s sue? 1] n MR. Ee : Yeah, yeah. MR. a: -- this is -. But I'll find out the two issues, the two things, and put you in contact with the contractor. MR. a : Awesome. Yeah, if we can follow up with that. I know you need to get out of here today. So, if we’re going to be back here tomorrow, and if it’s something that MR. QJ: 3=ovhat’s -. Yeah. MR. a : -- again, it’s going to - You would know what to ask, too, if you’re - while we’re busy, so we’re not tying you up - if you’re able to just call that contractor and say, can you give us all that stuff? By all EFTA00112531

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ies) w ~] wo 10 11 ive) means, that would be very helpful. MR. QM: 9 ves. MR. a : And then, we could just get it from you rather than talk to them € because if you’re - especially, if relationship with them, and you know their numbers and all that kind of stuff, you know, we’re just looking for, like, you know, whatever, whatever contact was made, specifically with the MCC, a. whomever, them about having these is i) to ues, or, you know, MR. a: Okay. So, the solicitation, the paperwork. I have a whole file, and I can get that and make copies of it. MR. a : Yeah. That would be hugely helpful, and we really appreciate it. MR. ae : You good? All right. time than we -- MR. a: No problem. MR. a : -- (Indiscernible We EFTA00112532

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LIMITED OFFICIAL USE B4 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 *00:58:30). It took more time than we had anticipated. It’s 3:16 p.m., Wednesday, August 4th, 2021. This is Senior Special Agent | a. and I'm turning off the recorder. EFTA00112533

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LIMITED ies) w S) co ioe) co its) No N No Wa OFFICIAL USE 8) wi CERTIFICATE that the foregoing pages transcript of the he proceedings the rview of to i = i] 5 3 wu EFTA00112534