Won nun Bwnre APPEARANCES: DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF a OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL AUGUST 12, 2019 FENTON TRANSCRIPTION Phone: 3 MR. QM: Today is Monday, August 12. The following will = a voluntar interview of — a furtherance of OIG investigation to fe determined, for the purpose of transcription, will now identify all present in the interview. I'll ask everyone to say and spell their last name, as well as identify their working title and employer. Iam Special Agent J ES —, Office of the Inspector General. MR : Special Agent i. - Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe Bi with the Fer. ve. i: eo Federal Bureau of Prisons. Spelling of the name is first name is ,_ last name is Bk. BR: Thank you. Warden J Um-hum. MR. | -- you have reviewed and signed Department of Justice OIG Form 226-2 which is Warnings and Assurances of Employees Request to Provide Information on a Voluntary OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: WITNESS: OTHER APPEARANCES: Basis. form? MR. + No. MR. : Would you like time to review it with an attorney, or would you like an attorney here? MR. : For now, I don’t need an attorney. MR. MJ: Okay. Are you currently under the influence of any substances, or is there any reason to prevent you from fully understanding my questions and answering truthfully today? MR. a. No. MR. : I'll now swear you to the statements you're about to make. Please raise your hand and repeat after me. s 6 COS Hereby solemnly swear or Do you have any questions about this WR. MB: Hereby solemnly swear or affirm. WR. MJ: | That the statements that I’m about to make. EFTA00091769

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MR. PBJ: That the statements I’m about to make. MR. MM: Shall be the truth and the whole truth. a: whole truth. Shall be the truth and the Thank you, sir. + Um-hum. ; : ould you mind telling us a little bit about your career with BOP? When you started, how you became a Warden? MR. : How you moved up the ranks. Great. How long have you understanding of when he arrived and that type of, when he arrived, how he was placed, where he was placed, and the reasons behind that? MR. : I don’t remember the specific date he arrived, but we didn’t, what happened was, we weren't told that he was going to be coming to the institution. : : Okay. . : When he initially came, he was dropped off on the weekend, and we didn’t find out until Monday, myself, that he had been placed at the institution. And from then on, we, you know, went through the whole process of the screening, his medical stuff. Just normal procedures that we follow and (Indiscernible *00:04:04). MR. QJ: Okay. Now when you say “he was dropped off over the weekend”, when somebody arrives at the facility, what's the normal -- MR. MR: =I mean typically if somebody's that high profile -- MR. + Um-hum, MR. : == we should’ve been notified and said hey, he’s coming in. We won nn &wnrpHe been the Warden? WR. WE: I've been here since May of 2018. WR. QM: Okay, great. role, you've done a lot of internal investigations with the prison and you've worked with the Department of Justice for -- Um-hum. -- moving forward, just as a note for the record, you're aware that failure to be honest with us today would be considered a criminal offense; correct? Yes. Okay, great. Let’s talk a little bit about some overall policies at the prison to start with. Okay. . So, actually let me back up. We're here today to talk about, i Jeffrey Epstein. Um-hum. The inmate. Um-hum. Would you mind just Just, your . You know, I mean, we saw it on the news, but it didn’t say. They just said they had him in custody, but we didn’t get any formal, I didn’t get any formal notice that he had been brought into the institution. So, he was dropped off, and you know, the Lieutenant on shift processed him in and brought him into the institution. We didn’t find out or realize it until Monday. WR. QM: So, it was Monday that you first were officially made aware of it? WR. WM: That I was made aware. You know, we found out, and I don’t remember if it was from looking at the news reports, we put it together that he had been brought into the institution. We went through our Monday morning meeting that we went through. So, that’s when -- MR. QJ: When he first arrived, was he placed in general population? Do you know where he was placed? MR. : I don't recall where he was placed when he came in. EFTA00091770

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PR POoOwaoHnOnN ewnrHe ee el ee ed WN SweOHDN &whR mr os RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR & Wh RPRR SOW MMM Re Mme OS © oo mmr Wm & WwW MR. QJ: At some point, he was placed in Special Housing Unit? Yes. Known as the SHU. Right. how did he end up there? Well, he was a new He was high profile. So, we placed him in the Special Housing Unit so we can further evaluate, you know, his status. Is he ready for general population? And we do that with all inmates, but -- MR. Okay. MR. : == and then to see, okay, any separation issues. Any threats to him, before we put him out there in general population. MR. population? MR. I don't recall. I don’t, I'm not sure if it might’ve been the first day when he came in. MR. : Okay. MR. : But I'm not sure, so I mean, I would have to look at the 37 to confirm. Was he ever in general 11 them going into the general population. So, it's a case-by-case basis on how we determine it. WR. MM: Okay. what are the policies in terms of when you're notified if someone enters Special Housing Unit or is discharged from Special Housing Unit? MR. Well what it is is, it’s routed the individual, it’s called a Release Form. So, several people sign it. They review it. I believe psychology, CMC, the Captain, and it goes to the Associate Warden and then they sign what we call is a Kick-Qut. Meaning everybody's reviewed it and said, okay, this person is appropriate for general population. MR. —. Okay. For Mr. Epstein, after that, he was never put in general population; correct? VR, a. No. MR. : Was the determination to keep him in Special Housing? What was the communication that goes on there? MR. Well we, now initially when he came in, it’s the goal to determine, okay, can they go to general population. Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn 10 WR. MJ: But as far as you know, that Monday, the first business day after the weekend he was initially dropped off. MR. : Right. MR. From that point forward, was he ever_in general population? MR. + No. MR. : Okay. What are the policies in terms of, or is there policy that dictates when somebody goes into general population from the SHU after the first arrival? WR. BB: Well, what we do is we evaluate the individual to see if they're ready for general population, if they can hang, you know -- MR. MR. MR. Um-hum. -- if they can populate. Okay. MR. : And it's a number of factors. It depends. I mean, if I have a gang member coming in, I'm taking into consideration separation issues on it. If it’s, you know, somebody that might've been fraud or bank fraud, then we determine if it’s any issues of 12 MR. Okay. MR. : So, between evaluating him, at the same time, we're looking at saying, okay, can he go to general population. WR. al Um-hum, MR. : So, it’s a dual role that we're going to -- WR. - Sure. MR. : But I had gotten word, and I don't recall the date, where from my Regional Director which stated he’s not to go to general population until further notice. MR. The Regional Director, where is that in the chain of command for BOP? We have five regional WR. : Okay. MR. Director. . : Okay. . : This is the Northeast Okay. : Where we have 21 So, he supervises and is in : Each region has a Regional institutions. EFTA00091771

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR Wh RPRR SOW MMM Re Mme OS © oo mmr Wm & WwW charge of the 21 institutions. Okay. So, is he -- (Indiscernible *00:08:37). -- your direct supervisor? He's my director supervisor. who is that? phonetic sp.). D Okay. Yeah. And Mr. I told you, do you recall if it was verbally or an email? Phone call? MR. PB: We had talked about it, too, but I would have to check if there was an email to go with it. But we did talk and said, hey, we're going to hold off on putting him out in general population. MR. : Okay. you officially were, you and Mr about this? MR. QM: I don’t want to give you the wrong date. But it was within that, you know, maybe a couple weeks after he arrived. MR. : Okay. So, it was a few weeks after he arrived -- WR. GEM: Were there any other specific directions or instructions given to the staff regarding him? MR. : Well, so at the time of him staying in there, we had to find him initially a roommate. MR. : Okay. MR. : So, and it’s hard especially in Special Housing Unit when you've got gang members in there that are not appropriate to be housed with. So, we came up with, I came up with Tartaglione, who was in there. White male, probably be able to cope with him. And that's typically how we, you know, that’s part of the evaluation process. WR. MM: “Is it standard for inmates in Special Housing Unit to have cellmates? MR. ME: | We typically would like for them to have it. MR. : Sure. MR. : But certain situations dictate that they can. If an inmate's a total separation from a group, and we get word from US Attorney's office or the arresting agents that, hey, he's to be totally separated, then Do you_recall when , spoke rR SCweeH4OD wre RRR RR UW Wh RRR ona MMM NNYVre Se wWwMNre Owe rm wn RR BPOWwWo HO BwrPE RPRRR Un Wh RR SD MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr &—wWwrNre © © oo rm wn Right. MR. .. Okay. After Mr. J told you to keep him, or it was agreed upon -- MR. + Um-hum. MR. : == to keep him in Special Housing Unit. MR. + Right. MR. : Who did you notify that he was to stay in the Special Housing Unit? How does that_communication -- WR. MM: So, what it does is I get my exec staff together -- i. al tn-hun, MR. : -- which is my Associate Wardens, the Captain, my exec, and we have our meetings, and I tell them he’s not, you know, I lay out the specific instructions. He's not to go out to general population. And -- . Were there, sorry. : Go ahead. : No. And that's basically how we 16 they would be housed by themselves. They could have an incident in the institution, you know, for example our gang members, somebody has an issue, and for example, the Bloods, then we have to say hey, let's separate him from there. You know? WR. WM: Was there any directions specifically that Mr. Epstein was to have a cellmate at all times? MR. :_ From psychology when -- MR. : Okay. MR. : -+ said hey, that he’s required, he needs to have a cellmate at all times. WR. MM: Okay. And that occurred ater on? When he first arrived, there was no specific directions regarding that; correct? No, it wasn't. : Okay. Wait, let me. Sure. You mean when he first came in were we talking about him having a cellmate? mR. - Initially. MR. : I don't recall any talks Okay. Yeah. EFTA00091772

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR Wh RPRR SOW MMM Re Mme OS © oo mmr Wm & WwW about him. MR. : Okay. MR. : Initially, and trying to figure out when he first came in, how he was housed. I don’t recall how he was housed when he first came in, but -- VR. MMMM. Okay. The NCC is no stranger to high profile -- MR. : Right. MR. : -- inmates. Generally speaking, how do you normally, or generally handle these type of high profile inmates? Any other special considerations or concerns. How does this work? MR. Again, you come in. We evaluate him to determine, okay, if they can go out to general population or not. We've had, you know, we've had a bunch that come in that were able to go out. We had (phonetic sp.), you know, the phone that, I don't know if you recall, the one that sent the bombs to the ex-presidents. :_(Indiscernible *00:12:41). Okay. : Him. So, when he first came just going over some of the overall high- profile inmates and the general -- MR. + Um-hum. MR. -- evaluation of them. Going back to, you said earlier that a few weeks had occurred. You and the Regional Director discussed keeping Epstein in the Special Housing Unit. MR. , Um-hum. MR : How often was the Regional Director being briefed on Epstein? MR. I guess the situation dictated it. If something happened, then we'd notify him, or he needed some questions for him, he would call me. But I don’t want to, I don't recall the specific amount of times. But we were in contact. Um-hum. : Frequent contact. Okay. How often were you, are you notified differently of high-profile inmates or how often were you being aware or notified of Epstein’s housing situation? MR. : Well, I mean, he was in the Special Housing Unit. So, I knew where he was. rR SCweeH4OD wre RRR RR UW Wh RRR ona MMM NNYVre Se wWwMNre Owe rm wn RR BPOWwWo HO BwrPE RPRRR Un Wh RR SD MmMNmMNrMNrMrRR Wwrr © wo oo 18 in, you know, he was high profile. So, we brought him in to determine -- FEMALE VOICE: Excuse me. MR. Yeah. FEMALE VOICE: Can you guys step out here for just a moment? MR. We, pausing the interview at 10:55 a.m. (tape paused). We're resuming the interview with Warden : Yeah. (Indiscernible *00:00:14). . Joining the interview room is Assisting United States Attorney from the Southern District of New York, vs. | MR. : I apologize. Can you spell your name for transcription purposes? MS. : Sure. , . Thanks. MR. : Thank you. Before we were 20 MR. Okay. MR. : So, it wasn’t like I had to be updated as to where he was. I knew where he MR. Okay. was. MR. | I mean, I knew that he went on his attorney visits, spent the whole day there. Would be the first one in, last one out. So, I mean, that’s what I knew. And then I kind of (Indiscernible *00:02:06) with the attorneys. I had some outside attorneys complain about, you know, they were taking up the attorney room. So, I knew that was, you know, those issues were coming up with the attorney room. MR. Okay. Going back to general policies at the -- MR. + Um-hum. MR. -- within the BOP, actually when E stein arrive -- MR. + Um-hum. MR. : -- I think we already covered this, but just to, were any special arrangements or considerations given to him? MR. As far as -- EFTA00091773

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PR POoOwaoHnOnN ewnrHe ee el ee ed WN SweOHDN &whR mr os RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR & Wh RPRR SOW MMM Re Mme OS © oo mmr Wm & WwW 21 MR. QM: Obviously you said earlier he was put_in the SHU on Monday. MR. : Right. MR. : After, was it, at that point, was there any issues that you're aware of regarding him? Anything that you needed to be aware of other than just who he was? MR. QM: No. Just who he was and the basic screening. The intake screening. MR. : Okay. At the time he first arrived, did you have any, was there any notification of any mental health concerns? No, not that I know of. Okay. How -- Are you talking about the weekend he came in, or -- : Yeah. (Indiscernible *00:03:19). First arrival. That weekend, I don't know. But I know afterwards, he was nedically assessed and they were, you know, our health service department assessed him and he, I think he might have told him that he had certain medications. 23 MR. MM: As far as what? If they find something in there? MR. : Yes. MR. : Like what would be an example? I mean -- MR. J: Any medical concerns that people need to be aware of. Any psychological issues. How does that information get disseminated? MR. BM: Because when we talk about medical issues, some of that falls under privacy issues. MR. : Um-hum, MR. : So, you know, it’s not going to be divulged as to -- MR. : Okay. MR. : == just like that. Sure. But as far as psychological, if it was something that psychologists did an interview and said, hey, there’s a mental health issue or something, then she would, you know, she would let her Associate Warden know. She would let me know that, hey, there’s some issues. Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn MR. : Okay. When -- . : -- that he was taking. . : When inmates come into the MCC, are they all screened for mental health issues or medical issues? MR. WE: Well, yes. They come in, you're screened for your medical. The unit team screens you and psychology screens you. But -- WR. ME: what timeframe does that occur? WR. QM: Typically like with him, he came in on the weekend. So, it depends if there was a psychologist. Maybe the next day someone would go screen him, the on-call psychologist. But, you know, or Monday if someone came in. But typically the on-call psychologist is there through the weekend and will screen them. MR. EM: who is notified of the results of those screenings? MR. + of? MR. : Of the medical screen and psychological screenings, who gets notified of that? 24 WR. QM: Okay. And when he first arrived, were you made aware of any medical or mental issues regarding him? WR. QB: «Mental health, I don’t recall any mental health. But I was told that he was on certain medications or whatever. But it was general. It wasn’t -- MR. : Okay. MR. : -- anything major. MR. : Okay. And just, and that's a general policy for all inmates that The screening, yeah. . | Just the medical screening. They all get that? a. Right. . : Is there any, as a result of those screenings, is there any, does it have any bearing on where they’re placed, whether it’s special housing or general population? MR. QJ: I mean typically if you do, like I said, if you do an intake screening and the individual comes in and they have no issues, no separation issues, and, you know, then they can populate like anyone else. But EFTA00091774

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PR POoOwo4OnNewnrpE RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR Wh RPRR SOW MMM Re Mme OS © oo mmr Wm & WwW 25 if there are issues with them going out in general population; i.e., safety issues, then you would be placed in the Special Housing. MR. + Okay. MR. : Until we could further evaluate if you could go to general population. MR. = If someone during the mental health screening, the mental health, the psychologist deemed them to be suicidal -- MR. | & Okay. MR. : == what are the suicidal watch policies as it relates to that? MR. MM: So, if the psychologist was to say, hey, they’re suicidal, then they would be placed on suicide watch. Okay. Now if the psychologist is not there and someone exhibits suicidal ideations or statements or thoughts, then they're placed on suicide watch. MR. QJ: Can you explain to me what suicide watch is, where it is in the MCC -- MR. QM: It's on the second floor of the institution, on the same floor of the hospital. there. An inmate. MR. : In the cell? MR. :_ No. Qutside the cell. MR. : Okay. MR. : It's a cell where you sit and observe. “MR. ME: Okay. another inmate or a staff? MR. MM: No, it’s a trained inmate companion. Now, we have four cells. If those cells get full, then we have to move them up to the Special Housing Unit and then put a staff watch on them. WR. BE: Okay. Is the companion What policies are in place for suicide watch as it relates to staff response, notification, how people get notified, if they're moving from suicide watch to off suicide watch. How does that work? MR. MM: That works through Okay. psychology. MR. : Psychology evaluates and they'll say, okay, we’ve evaluated him and, you know, wherever we're going, typically you always usually go from the Special Housing Unit Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WME OC woo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRR Un Wh RR SD MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn 26 Okay. And it's a cell, and if you go on suicide watch, you're placed in a smock. MR. : Okay. MR. : That covers you and then you're watched for 24 hours. WR. MM: Now the smock, is that made of paper, or -- . It’s cloth. Cloth? It's like, you ever see those movies where they have those heavy bomb vests? Uh -- It’s something, I mean, I don't want to you 1 know, say, but it’s something like that. MR. : Okay. MR. : And it just hangs. MR. : Sure. MR. : Hangs on them just like So _-- WR. QR: And you said they’re monitored for 24 hours. How are they, is it -- MR. WM: There's a companion sitting 28 that. to suicide. So, they’d say, okay you know what, they're ready to go back up. MR. : Okay. What role, how does the program, is the psychologist the program coordinator? WR. BE: «The chief psychologist runs the department. Okay. And then she has various psychologists that work under her. MR. : Okay. MR. : And then evaluate because we have a different mission as far as we have a forensic mission. So, we get a lot of forensic studies in the institution. MR. : Okay. MR. : And then we have a regular psychologist also that handles the inmate population but they work together and they handle everything. MR. : Okay. Who's ultimately responsible for placing somebody on suicide watch or off suicide watch? MR. QM: Well placing it, a staff member comes and says hey, this guy is EFTA00091775

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR Wh RPRR SOW MMM Re Mme OS © oo mmr Wm & WwW 29 suicidal. You can place him on suicide watch. MR. MM: Okay. Anybody in the institution can do that? wR. MM: Yeah. If I come upon an inmate that’s saying, “Hey, I'm going to kill myself.” Okay, we get him on suicide watch. Psychology comes and, you know, evaluates them and then comes up with a plan. MR. a: Within the psychology department -- MR. + Um-hum. MR. : == or the medical department there in mental health, who there ultimately makes that decision? MR. : I believe, and don’t quote me on this. I believe the psychologists. MR. : Okay. MR. : You know, they’re trained professionals. So, they can make a decision and they consult with the Chief in, you know, determining okay what’s the plan of action to move forward. MR. QM: And are you, when someone's placed in suicide watch, are you notified of that? MR. | No. MR. : Does every institution have an inmate companion program? : Yes. Who's the Chief > RE BB (phonetic sp.). MR. QR: And Ms. QI is the one who is ultimately responsible for determining if someone is on suicide watch and removing them; correct? MR. QM: Well in conjunction with our 31 Psychology Okay. Because you could be, a psychologist is assigned to the individual when they're working a plan with them. And if they come to the determination that hey, you know what, they no longer need to be on suicide watch. WR. MB: Okay. But as the clinical director, she’s ultimately responsible. MR. MMM: She's not the clinical. She's the Chief Psychologist. Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WME OC woo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRR Un Wh RR SD MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr &—wWwrNre © © oo rm wn 30 MR. MMMM: Yeah. They send out a form every day stating like who's on suicide watch, who's on syche observation. So -- . : Okay. -- we're aware of who it is and then they’ " send out a form if there's no one on there. WR. QM: You said earlier that while on suicide watch, there was an observer. Right. How does an inmate become an observer? MR. : It's an inmate companion. A companion, I’m sorry. So, it’s a trained program. So, they have to go through training. They have to take courses, and then they become eligible to become a companion. WR. QE: Who authorizes the use of an inmate companion? MR. : The psychology department runs that. So -- WR. QM: Do you have any input as the Warden in selecting or training or implementing the inmate companion program? MR. : Okay. MR. : Clinical Director is a separate position. MR. : Okay. that. MR. : That's fine. MR. : Thank you for clarifying. Okay. Who in the medical staff, just for my clarification, who in the medical staff is ultimately responsible for removing somebody from suicide watch? MR. QM: The psychology department determines to remove somebody from -- WR. QM: «So, who in the psychology department? MR. MBM: Again, it depends on who's evaluating the inmate. . : Okay. So -- . : And so we have one, two, three, really we have, (Indiscernible *00:12:26) uh, four. We have four psychologists on staff. MR. You have four And any one of those I apologize for psychologists on staff. EFTA00091776

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR Wh RRR oN MmNMNyr Mrmr Ow mmr Wm & WwW four can remove somebody? Can remove somebody. Do those four have, who's those four supervisors? : ihat authority does she have to overrule them? MR. BB: | And I'm not a psychologist - Sure. -- to know what procedures Um-hum, -- or what conversation they have to ‘determine if she’s going to overrule them. I mean, she’s the supervisor, and it’s just like with any, you know, profession you ; | Right. . : If I come up with some reasoning -- MR. + Um-hum, MR. : In saying hey, I don’t agree WR. BE: «Once a year during our annual training, we have suicide prevention training. Okay. During our annual training. And that’s required for . | All employees. . : What does that training Suicide signs, prevention, coping, just anything pertaining to suicide, sir. Signs to look for. Um-hum. Um -- Is there any specific staff that are more trained, or specifically trained for this area of the prison? MR. QM: Our Special Housing Unit staff get quarterly suicide prevention training. MR. MM: Okay. Is that part of something the MCC does independent, or is that policy dictated? How does that -- Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH RRR RR UW Wh RRR ona MNrMNNrNP wre ow rm wn Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe 34 with your decision, then we debate it and then we ultimately come to a decision. Okay. As to yay or nay. Okay. So, it’s kind of the same thing. WR. QE: while on suicide watch, you said there’s a 24-hour companion. What does staff do for the inmates while they’re on suicide watch? WR. QM: Well we have a camera, well they're trained to, there's a phone there. So, let's say something happened where an inmate’s trying to do harm to himself. They pick up the phone and they call for assistance, because it goes directly to control center, and we respond accordingly to it. But we also in our control center, while the individual is on suicide watch, there’s a camera there. Okay. To view -- What specific training does staff get as it relates to the suicide 36 MR. QM: That's our policy dictates that they_get quarterly training. MR. : Okay. That's BOP policy; correct? MR. + Yes. MR. : Okay. When someone, you said that any staff member at the BOP can place somebody on suicide watch? MR. 1 Yes. MR. : Is there any paperwork or documentation for that that they have to fill out? MR. QM: No. Basically they'll tell that, you know, that hey we need to place him on watch, and we'll place him on watch, and then we'll contact psychology. MR. : Okay. To come in and talk to them. Okay. There’s no referral that says “T placed inmate" -- MR. : No. Psychology will handle it -- MR. : Okay. MR. : == here and there, in their notes and their documentation that they were EFTA00091777

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PR POoOwo4OnNewnrpE RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR Wh RPRR SOW MMM Re Mme OS © oo mmr Wm & WwW placed on it, when they were placed on it. MR. a. So, the psychology department is responsible for documenting when people come in in treatment. WR. QM: We, you know, we have what we call a_daily log in the -- . + Um-hum, : -- institution. So, the log would annotate somebody was placed on suicide watch also. MR. MM: Okay. Is there any specific forms or reports that get filled out when somebody is removed from suicide watch? MR. : I believe psychology would do those forms and saying in their reports why they were removed and if they're ready to be released. Do you get those forms? I don’t get the special medical ones. I just, with the notification that, you know, with the one that email that goes out -- Um-hum. iH -- that the individual was released fron suicide watch. 39 MR. MB: And, don’t quote me on that, but I need to look at the chain -- MR. : Okay. MR. : == to see who’s actually on it. But -- WR. MM. But it’s not an institution-wide emai]? WR. MM: «It is kind of sent out institution wide because you have the different departments on it. So, you can say it's institution wide. MR. MM: Not every person in the institution gets that email, though? MR. -. No. I don’t -- MR. : Okay. Just not an MCC all . No, it's not an all staff. MR. : Okay. Yeah. What is the expectation of the department heads and the supervisors and the Lieutenants and Captains once they get this email? What are they supposed to do with that? WR. MM: I mean, it’s just a notification that the individual's being Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WME OC woo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRR Un Wh RR SD MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn 38 MR. QM: Do you get notified, you just said you get notified in the email that somebody's removed or -- WR. MM: It’s an email that the psychology department puts out stating who's on suicide watch, who’s been removed. MR. a: Is that a daily list? Like they send it once a day, or when someone new comes on and off? How does that -- MR. : It's a daily one. And -- Okay. And it states who’s on watch, who" S, you 1 know, who’s got released, and WR. WE: Who does that get disseminated to? MR. QM: It's a group. It's a group email that gets sent to all department heads, Captain, Lieutenants, everybody in the need to know. MR. QJ: This is the supervisors within the institution? The Lieutenants, the Captain. (Indiscernible *00:17:07). 40 removed from suicide watch. So, it depends on where they're going. So, if they're going back to Special Housing Unit, so it’s notification that hey, this person’s been taken off. We have nobody on watch right now. MR. : Okay. Are they supposed to disseminate that? What are they supposed to do with that information? Are they supposed to tell anybody where they -- MR. : Well, I mean when that individual is released -- MR. + Um-hum. MR. : Wherever they’re going for, they're going to be notified by psychology that they're coming directly -- MR. : Okay. MR. : == to you. Okay. Okay. accountabilit MR. : == thing just to know that So, it was just an hey, this person is getting off of watch. MR. : So, psychology will notify whatever unit they're going back to? EFTA00091778

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PR POoOwo4OnNewnrpE RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mre r Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR & Wh RPRR SOW MMM Re Mme OS © oo mmr Wm & WwW 41 MR. QM: Well, it depends where you're going back to. Typically I always go to Special Housing Unit down. . + Okay. . : And typically when you do, let's say an individual has tried to commit suicide. It's an infraction. So, they usually have an incident report that goes beyond that. So, you have to come up to the Special Housing Unit anyway before so that that infraction can be resolved. MR. : Okay. MR. : So, there are a number of aspects of, you know, how. Did you go straight back or if you don’t go back there. MR. : And this email that psychology sends out with the list of who's in and who's out of suicide watch -- Who’s on watch, yeah? -- is that once a day or twice a ‘day? Is that morning and evening It depends. Okay. When you come in in the we reall don’ t have that much space. Okay. ‘so, isually that cell, depenting on if when they were removed from the cell, if they had a cellmate. So, what happens is that individual’s property is removed, and we could possibly put somebody else in that cell. 43 have. : Okay. Um -- And again, the suicide watch” —— psychological, the psyche eval that, you said that happened right away when someone first comes n the prison; correct? 2 Pe A psyche eval? -- I didn’t say what you said on that. You said -- A psychological eval. : Okay. . I want to clarify, earlier you said that people, inmates get that when they first come into the prison; correct? MR. QM: Yeah. Psychologically when they initially have to come and actually Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn 42 morning, they could say, you know, this is who's on watch, and then you get another one stating who’s been released off of watch. WR. MM: Okay. Is there any policy or standard operation procedure on how (Indiscernible *00:19:21) that email gets sent How what? How frequent that email -- No. Okay. But it should be at least once a day? MR. : That's when they send it I don’t -- WR. WM: Okay. when somebody is removed from Special Housing -- MR. . Um-hum. MR. : == and placed in suicide watch on the second floor -- MR. + Um-hum. MR. : == is anything done to their cell in Special Housing? Is there any precautions or anything that go into that? WR. QM: So, typically let's say you do leave, and it depends on how much space we out. perform -- MR. : Okay. MR. : -- an initial intake screening. “. a: suicide watch? WR. MM: Well we also have what we call a psyche observation. im Pal Okay. MR. : And I think the best way to describe that would be it’s a step-down from suicide watch. For example, we might have a mental health inmate that is just mentally, you know, out there. So, we'll put them on psyche observation. They haven’t said they're going to hurt themselves, but they have the potential to do it. Somebody might be on narcotics and acting erratic and you don’t know what they're on. So, they might end up doing it. But it’s a different type of observation because it’s not as stringent as suicide watch. MR. : Okay. MS. : Can you explain what that means? What are the requirements when an Is there a level below EFTA00091779

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PR POoOwaoHnOnN ewnrHe ee el ee ed WN SweOHDN &whR mr os RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR & Wh RPRR SOW MMM Re Mme OS © oo mmr Wm & WwW inmate is on psyche eval, observation? WR. ME: «If they're on psyche observation, we are not necessarily putting them in a smock. You know? You can still have your regular clothing. We're just observing your behavior and that. So, that’s the difference. MS. MM: And does the psychologist stop by every day? MR. =. They're treated the same way as somebody that’s on suicide watch. They're evaluated, come up with a plan. They're ready ‘0 be released. Keep them on, more along those ines. MS. QM: Well is someone on psyche evaluation, do they have an inmate companion watching them? MR. MM: Psyche obs also has an inmate companion. So, anybody in that area has an inmate watching them. MR. a. As the Warden, do you have any input on the determinate if someone's in psychological observation, in suicide watch or observation status? Do you have any input on or psyche going off it. So, it doesn’t -- MS. : But do they -- MR. : -- have to necessarily, it’s not my approval. MS. : Do they typically consult you when that happens? MR. BB: Depending on, you know, if it's the case, you know? Who it is, you might be, like I said, a high profile individual they would say, “Hey, we're taking him off of watch. We're doing this.” So, we'll be following the plan closely, so -- MR. a. When it comes to Epstein, Jeffrey Epstein -- MR. + Um-hum. MR. : -+ he was in the mental health program. Can you just tell us your understanding of his involvement with the Psyc at McC? Um, let me back-track. “5 : Sure. MR. : It's not a mental health program. MR. + Okay. MR. > Um -- Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn that? WR. WE: «1 don't overrule medical decisions. I'm not a doctor. MR. : Um-hum. MR. : If they come to me and say this is warranted whether it’s medical care or not, I don’t -- Okay. But you're briefed on it? I'm briefed on it. Yes. Is that orally? Orally they'll come and say, well we 1 discuss an inmate saying, hey, he has mental issues. I feel that they need to be placed here or there. And I’m going with your evaluation. I’m not going to, and I have good psychologists. So, I trust their judgment. Can_an inmate be taken off of suicide watch by Dr. or her staff without consulting you? MR. QM: They can. The doctor decides who’s coming off of watch. So, they can make the determination and, you know, they send up to the Associate Warden, the Captain, and it will come to release and if they're 48 MR. : Sorry. MR. : Being, I guess, reviewed by Sure. psychology -- MR. : MR. : + they're following him. He was on their case. Okay. And you want to know what I Yes. Again, he was under their care. They were evaluating him, and, you know, going through their protocol to determine why he was on watch. If he was on suicide watch, can he come off of suicide watch? Was he suicidal? Things like that. MR. : At any time, were you aware or notified of him being suicidal or having any suicidal ideations or attempts? MR. : Well we had an incident where he was in the cell with Tartaglione -- Okay. -- that it might’ve been a suicide attempt and jt might not have been a suicide attempt. So, we followed the protocols EFTA00091780

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RR POW OHO BwrPE RRR Bm Wh ee od al oe od Rr SoOW OND mre r Wn & Ww PR POwWo4ON ewnrP RR wr RPRRR SOW > MMM Re mr © woo mmr Wm & WwW 49 and put him on watch. There was also an internal investigation where he was interviewed and his cellmate was interviewed, and he basically denied (Indiscernible *00:25:35). MR. —_— When you say “he denied”, Tartaglione -- :_ He said -- -- or Epstein? . : No, Epstein stated that, “Hey, I didn’t try to kill myself." And then Tartaglione said that he was sitting in the cell. He thought he was having a heart attack. So, I forget the words psychology used to determine what their conclusion was as far as the actual act. MR. Okay. MS. Did you review the incident report for the suicide attempt? MR. I reviewed the investigative report that the Lieutenant interviewed both of them, took their statements, and all that because the review process goes from, the Lieutenant initiates it. It goes to the Captain, Associate Warden, and myself. And then I, uh, sign off on it. 51 in there pending investigations. Cellphone introduction. Drug introduction. So, that goes through the investigative process, and then we have, you know, we also have our SAMs (phonetic sp.) inmates that are housed in there. So, we basically discuss and talk about every inmate. MS. QJ: | And who attends these meetings? MR. Myself, all the Associate Wardens, the Unit Managers, psychology, the Captain, the SHU Lieutenant, the Investigative Lieutenant. So, we just have everyone there that’s involved in the -- MS. And what’s your understanding of whether the SHU Lieutenant or the Captain brief out the duty Officers in the SHU about the outcome of that SHU meeting every week. MR. J: «I don’t understand what you mean. MS. MM: So, do you have an understanding of whether, because the duty Officers are not present in the SHU meeting; rR SCweeH4OD wre RRR RR Wm Wh RR SD MmMNmNRRR mr Oo wo mrmer uw & w Re SCweHsonuw wre RPRRRR Un Wh RR SD MMMM NRRR & WwMe CO woo rm wn 50 MS. BMJ: Did you speak with Dr. HEM after she had consulted with Mr. Epstein when he was placed on suicide watch? MR. : Um, yes. We have SHU meetings, and we have it once a week, and Epstein was brought up, and she talked about Mr. Epstein. MS. : After the suicide attempt? MR. + Yes. MS. : What day of the week is the SHU thing typically? MR. It's Thursdays. MS. All right and -- MR. Right. MS. -- what happens at the SHU meetings? WR. QM: It's a list where we go around and we talk about every inmate. We have inmates that are in there for infractions, criminal issues, from your office, a high- profile guy might come in. So, we just talk about, okay, what's the status. If we call in a disciplinary citation, that means they’ve been sanctioned and they’re doing time, and then we look at the release date. We have some correct? MR. + No. MS. Do you have an understanding of how, for instance, if you tell the Lieutenant, I want this done in the SHU, will the Lieutenant then tell his duty Officers after the meeting? WR. MMM: Well, the duty officer is supposed to make rounds throughout the institution when they’re on duty to observe and report if anything is not right. And then if we have incidents, they make notifications, you know, to the region. . : To the region? . : To, like let’s say we have a fight. MS. | Um-hum. MR. : Or maybe like you said, a suicide attempt. So, they have to contact the Regional Duty Officer. That’s their notification. They make the Regional Duty Officer, and then it moves up the chain that way, and then I have to make my notifications, which I make my notifications to the Regional Director. EFTA00091781

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RR POW OHO BwrPE RRR Bm Wh ee od al oe od Rr SoOW OND mre r Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr RPRRPRPRPR Wwonnu > mmn we wre © mr wn 53 MS. QJ: Okay. And my question is, does any information, do you have an understanding of whether any information that’s conveyed in these SHU meetings gets briefed down to the line Officers who are responsible for patrolling the SHU? It does? . Yeah. The SHU Lieutenant is there, and he’s in the meeting, he or she is in the meeting, and they're talking to their staff on what needs to be done or the status, you know. We're going in and we determine if somebody can be released, then that will be conveyed back that hey, an individual can be released. MS. MJ: So, you were saying that after the July 23rd suicide attempt, there was a Thursday SHU meeting? MR. : Right. MS. In which Dr. [i discussed at least her initial observations of Mr. Epstein? MR. MM: Well, she would initially discuss it there, but she would also initially, 55 Monday. I have to check, did I take a extra day or not? I’m not sure, but the 29th, I should've, I would’ve been back. MS. So, that Thursday meeting which looks like would've been August 1st, you were present at? : Yes. . And what was discussed during the SHU meeting? MR. The SHU meeting, we'll discuss every inmate. Every inmate on the list, what's their status? Updates and all that stuff. MS. Okay. And specifically with respect to Epstein, what was discussed? MR. MM: I don’t recall specifically. I know we would’ve talked about him. We would've probably talked about, you know, his psychological status and I got to remember on the first, he was probably back in the Special Housing Unit. So, we were probably, you know, talking about his housing conditions, what's he doing, and usually the conversation was during the day he was down at the attorney visits, you know? rR cow oH DU Sw MNP PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn RR BPOWwWo HO BwrPE RPRRPR RR SD UT wh MMMM NRRR & WwMe CO woo rm wn 54 whoever, you know, if the Warden is there, initiate it to the AW. So, that would be something immediate that she would say, hey, he’s on watch and this happened. MS. And what happened at that first SHU_meeting after the suicide attempt? MR. The week of July 22nd to the 26th, I was on leave. MS. Okay. MR. : So, Iwas, you know, I was getting called. So, I don't know the specifics, but I was aware of, you know, I got called that hey, there was an attempt and the protocols were followed. MS. Okay. MR. : Notifications were made. MS. Okay. So, the following week which I think is the week of the 29th. MR. : The 29th or the 30th, yeah. MS. You were back in the office? WR. WM: That Monday. So, if you have a calendar, I can look at it. vs, | I think it’s the 29th -- . : So, yeah. So, the 29th is a 56 And then there were certain exams that we had to do that we wanted to get done on him. And then we discussed that. MS. Uh, what kind of exams? MR. : Physicals and then, you know, and I don't know if that was before or after his sleep apnea machine that he was, you know, requesting. a Um-hum. MR. : Because typically, you know, you have to go through the fitting and the process, but, you know, we allowed that one to come in. We checked it, security wise, and said it was fine to come in, and we got it. So, I think we might have been discussing that, more along those lines. But we discuss every inmate in there. I don't specifically remember it. I know we would’ve talked about what the issues were pertaining to him. Um, let’s go back to -- Um-hum. -- the suicide attempt. Okay. You said that you were on EFTA00091782

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PR POoOwo4OnNewnrpE RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mre r Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR & Wh RPRR SOW MMM Re Mme OS © oo mmr Wm & WwW 57 leave that week, but you were notified by your Associate Warden? : Associate Warden, yes. Okay. Were you receiving daily updates? MR. Not, I mean, they called me during the day the first time that it happened. Hey, this is what happened. He’s on watch. And then the next day, you know, he was still on watch. So, there was really no, I didn’t need that much updates because we knew he was on watch. MS. : Okay. . : Um -- MS : And you notified your Regional Director? “MR. BJ: «1 notified my Regional Director. And then while I was on leave, my Regional Director was also in contact with my acting AW. Did the -- : Acting Warden, I’m sorry. Did the Regional Director convey any directions to your AW during that time? are we going to house him with? MS. + Um-hum. MR. : You know, coming to that decision and then that would give her more time to work with him if she needed. MS. MM; «Okay. Did you have a discussion with Dr. = about whether she felt he was still suicidal? MR. QM: Again, if the psychologist tells me that he’s ready and he goes, I don’t question medical judgment. I trust her judgement. If she says he’s not suicidal and he’s ready to go back, then we trust her judgment. MS. MR. And she did -- Because she -- MS. -- tell you that? MR. She said he was ready to go back. He wasn’t suicidal and that he was ready to go back. MS. MM: Did you review any of her reports or the psychologist’s reports -- . : I don’t -- . : -- during the time he was on the second floor? Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn 58 MR. QM: I believe just the basics, you know. Keep him updated what's going on because at the time he was under psychology’s care. MS. | Um-hum. MR. : So, once they’re in that, there’s really not that much input to go on because they're on watch. MS. And then Epstein was downgraded from suicide watch to psyche observation. MR. MS. second floor? :_ Psyche observation. While he was still on the + Yes. Were you notified of that change? WR. MMMM: Yes, that he was on psyche obs. MS. : Okay. And did you discuss that with Dr. at all? MR. : Yeah. We talked about it. Again, it was, you know, him going back up to the Special Housing Unit. Although he wasn’t suicidal, it was just a matter of, okay, who 60 MR. MM: No. I don’t review any medical files. MS. SHU on the 30th MR. MS. And he came back to the is that right? Uh, yes. Okay. MR. Um-hum. MS. And what discussions did you have, let's start with Dr. I, about the conditions of his confinement in the SHU? MR. She just said to get him in, you know, we're going to put him, get him a cellmate because typically every inmate that, you know, is on suicide or whatever, we say, okay, we're going to give him a cellmate. So, that was when we went through the process of figuring out, okay, who could we possibly put him in with? Um, the pickings were slim. So, I came up with Tartaglione, and no wait, no. Tartaglione, he had been put down there originally because of Tartaglione. MS. : Um-hum. MR. : So, what happened was, we had to come up with some more inmates. So, I came up with three. It was, I believe, Reyes, EFTA00091783

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RPRRPRRPR SD ew PM MMM Re Mme OS © oo nm w 61 HBMMB,, and who was the other one? We had another sex offender in there that we were going to put him in there, and he said, “If he comes in here, it’s going to be a problem.” So, we didn’t put him in there. So, we ended up putting Reyes in there. MS. + Um-hum. TT He couldn't be in the institution because it was Cooperating, so we figured that was a good fit, and then I sent an email of the three to the Director's Chief of Staff I sent an email to. MS. : And what is his name? MR. : HE ER (phonetic ‘VS. EE: Okay. here_are the three -- Here are the three -- -- possible -- -- possible ones. : Okay. git Did i tell i -- 63 WR. MB: -- and we can’t put them in there because it becomes a life safety issue. MS. BE: How long after someone is taken off suicide watch would you typically direct that they have a cellmate? MR. : It would depend on the situation, because you could be getting released to a unit where you would automatically have a cellmate going through, or you know, direction could put out that, hey, make sure the individual has a cellmate. So, there's no really timeframe on when you would decide that. MR. MM. «Just to clarify, as it relates to, I know you guys just discussed this, but just making sure I’m following you guys correctly. As it relates to the first suicide attempt back on July 23rd, Mr. Epstein. Right. You were on leave. Yeah, the 22nd. You were notified via telephone of this, and you notified the Regional Director. Is that correct? WR. MB: “Yeah, of the, yeah, I did And so you emailed Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH RRR RR UW Wh RR SD MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WME OC woo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRR Un Wh RR SD MmMNmMNrMNrMrRR Wwrr © wo oo 62 MS. J: Did you tell Mr. [a that he needed to have a cellmate? WR. MM: Yes. That's what the discussion was, for a cellmate. So, I sent that up, spoke with my Regional Director. I believe he received it too, and came to the conclusion Reyes would probably be the best fit for him. So, we put him in the cell with Reyes. MS. MM: Is there a policy about whether an inmate needs to have a cellmate after they've been taken off of suicide watch? MR. : There's no policy, but it’s sound correctional judgment. I mean even if an individual is not on suicide watch, and you're in the Special Housing Unit, you typically want somebody in there with them. Um-hum. Because, I mean, you never know what could happen. So, just for somebody to talk to, you know, pass the time. So, you typically put somebody in there unless again we're in a situation where they're just totally separated from somebody -- MS. EE: Un-hum. call him to tell him. WR. ME: You called the Regional Director? MR. 1 Yes. MR. : -- while on leave to notify him? Did you notify anybody else of the 23rd incident? MR. : No, I called my boss, and -- MR. : Okay. MR. :_ Yeah. MR. : And that is, via the policy and your responsibilities, as a BOP policy and your responsibility as a Warden, is there anybody else that you were supposed to notify? MR. Okay. No. And your staff was notified because they were working in the institution; correct? MR. : Which staff? MR. : Your Assistant Warden, who WR. MBM: Yeah. She was the Acting EFTA00091784

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Re Swoon nu ewrPH RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr Warden, so she -- Acting Warden. Yeah. Who was that? At the time, I believe it (phonetic sp.). Yeah, she was Active Warden. MR. QM: Okay. Do you happen to know if she notified anybody? WR. BB: She would've notified the Region also. MR. : Okay. MR. : And she would’ve notified the region, but she was just calling me -- MR. : Okay. MR. : == just to let me know like, hey, this is what's going on. MR. MM: Okay. And back when, a few days later when Epstein was removed from suicide watch to psyche observation -- MR. + Um-hum. MR. : -+ were you notified of that change? MR. i. That he was being moved? MR. : Just downgraded from 67 MS. MJ: «And that’s the Regional Director? MR. MM: That's the Regional Director. MS. :__And what’s his name? : i. . : And then a few days later when he was removed from observation and placed back in Special Housing Unit, you were notified of that? Were you notified of that? MR. : Oh, yes. MR. : Did you notify anybody of that? MR. MB: When he was removed and placed back in the -- MR. : Yes. MR. : == Special Housing? Yeah, I let my supervisor know that that was the plan. MR. : Okay. MR. : He was moving him, because remember we had to get him -- MR. + Um-hum. MR. : == a roommate. MR. : Right. MR. : So, that was the whole Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH 66 suicide watch to psychological observation. Yes. Did you notify anybody of Um, I might've called my boss to ‘Tet him know that, hey, he’s been downgraded off of suicide watch. MR. : Okay. Yeah. You don’t recall No, I don’t. : Okay. But I probably would've notified him. WR. QM: Okay. Did you recall notifying anybody specifically about that downgrade? MR. : What, as far as him? : Yep. No, I don’t recall, but it would've robably been my boss telling me -- . Sal Okay. . : -- hey, we moved him from suicide watch down to -- 68 process, notifying, hey, he’s coming off watch. He’s going to the Special Housing Unit. MR. Pal Um-hum. MR. : And he’s going to get a roommate . WR. GM: «Other than your Regional Director, did you notify anybody else? MR. : That he was coming off -- MR. : Yes. MR. : -- or talk about it? MR. : Yep. MR. :_ Yeah. MR. : Okay. MR. : And said that, you know, what the expectation was that, you know, he’s going to have a cellmate. MR. J: So, you told, during that meeting, do you recall when that meeting was? MR. a. I don’t recall when the meeting was, but I just told them, hey, he needs to have a cellmate. This is his cellmate. Cellmate at all times. And, you know, put_it out to your -- MR. : Okay. Um -- MS. : Put it out to your people? My exec staff. EFTA00091785

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PR POoOwaoHnOnN ewnrHe PRR RRR COND mw MN mr cow RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR & Wh RPRR SOW MMM Re Mme OS © oo mmr Wm & WwW 69 MR. QM: To the departments and your areas of responsibility on that’s how he was going to be housed. MS. [RM: And who did you specifically tell that to? MR. : My Associate Wardens were in there, whoever was acting, the Captain because that specifically falls under his area. MS. + Um-hum. MR. : The Special Housing Unit. I told him specifically he needs to be housed alone. I informed his Lieutenant, you know, and his offices and basically on each shift, just be mindful, you know, of making rounds and just rot for hin just for everybody. S, MMM; And what's the Captain's tame? MR. a a. MS. ; _ Okay. MR. : Um-hum. MS. : Did you tell Captain HEM this before Epstein was moved back to the SHU? MR. MM: Yeah. We had a meeting, and I got together and I said, hey, this was going when Epstein went back to the SHU -- Um-hum. -- and then his suicide? I don't recall the number of times, but it was just a conversation constantly reminding that let's be vigilant on just not him, but everybody in the Special Housing Unit. MS. GM: Could you estimate daily? Once? Twice? MR. MM: I wouldn't say daily. 1 would say, I don’t have an actual number. I don’t want to say an actual number, but you know, if I did encounter, or I made rounds in the unit, I would, you know, tell staff up there, you know, be vigilant with your protocol. So, I don't know the specific amount of time. I make my rounds once a week at a minimum, but, you know, sometimes it’s more. Sometimes it’s less. WR. ME: When it comes to the ability, so you specifically go back to, what you said earlier about Reyes. MR. BB: | Right. Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn 70 to be the plan that Reyes was going to be moved in with him. He was going to have a cellmate, and that was the protocol we were going to follow. MS. GE: Did GY confirm that he would tell his Lieutenants, or his -- WR. MM: He confirmed. I followed up and asked him, did you put it out to the Lieutenants and staff working, and he told me yes. MS. BMJ: And was that before Epstein, his confirmation, did that come before Epstein was moved back to the SHU, or around the first_day he was in the SHU? MR. : No before. I had the conversation with him, and then I followed up afterwards and said, “Hey, did you disseminate the information?” And he said, “Everything was disseminated.” But it wasn’t just a one-day thing. It was a constant, I told him, a constant follow up, you know? Make sure that, you know, these protocols are being followed. MS. BE: How many times do you recall telling Captain that, between WR. QR: You came up with three possible -- 72 Right. : -- roommates for him, and with that list, did you brief that up the chain for approval, or where did that go that list? MR. : Isent it to, I made my boss aware of it. MR. : Chief of Staff in the Director’s office. don't know what conversations -- MR. : Sure. MR. : -- took place above that. Um -- MR. : MR. : I just know about -- MR. : You briefed it up the chain. You briefed your suggestions up the chain. WR. . I went up the chain. MR. : And there was, were there any objections to that list? MR. QM: I gave the three possibles - Okay. And then I sent it to the So, I Okay. EFTA00091786

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR Wh RPRR SOW MmMMyerRR Re Oo wc 73 MR. | Um-hum. MR. : -- but you know, one I had was a 26-year-old drug dealer I know he, and he was still in there, and I was like although he was separated, I just didn’t -- MR. + Um-hum, MR. : -- feel that he could, you know, he might, somebody could convince him to do something. So, he didn’t, I didn’t feel comfortable with him, and I forget the other one. And I think the other one might've been somebody that was going to be releasing soon. MR. : Okay. MR. : So, I took in the factors Reyes’ age -- MR. + Um-hum, MR. : == and second when he checked himself in and feeling that he was going to be long-term. MR. : Okay. That, so you made special care and consideration in picking Epstein’s roommate, cellmate? Based on the -- Yep. -- options I had -- 75 WR. MJ: When was he released from the facility? MR. : He was released, I believe, on Friday. MR. MM: Okay. Was he transferred out? Was he released from custody? Under what conditions, do you know? MR. : From what I understand, it was with all belongings. So, I don’t -- Okay. . -- who took him. You can’t, I mean, even if you look on Sentry, you don’t know where he was -- MR. + Um-hum, MR. : == but when we looked at him originally, it still showed that he was going to court. MR. : Okay. MR. : So, that he was going to be long-term. Now it’s just showing there's no DST. So, I don't know where Reyes is. WR. MB: Okay. But he’s not in MCC? MR. . No, he’s not in MCC. MR. : Okay. Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WME OC woo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRR Un Wh RR SD MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr &—wWwrNre © © oo rm wn 74 MR. : Yep. MR. : -- which wasn’t too many. I mean, he had to have a cellmate, and the options weren't good. MR. : Are staff in the Special Housing Unit allowed to assign cellmates arbitrarily or on their own without consulting a Captain, Lieutenant, or yourself (Indiscernible *00:46:26). WR. MBM: Yeah, the offices on their own can, you know, if they have to move somebody around can move somebody around based on they know who can be housed with who. If somebody’s separation, they know who's separated from an individual. So, they can do that. MR. : doing that. WR. PM: Okay. about Reyes a little bit. Right. He’s no longer in MCC; Okay. I mean, they're capable of As it relates, talk correct? WR. ME: | Right. MR. MR. : Prior to, you had, you were very active in making sure that Epstein had an appropriate cellmate? MR. a. Right. MR. : What were you, leading up to the last week Friday, what were you aware of Reyes, any court proceedings or any issues or concerns about him leaving the MCC? I was off on Friday. : Okay. So, I didn’t know anything about his court proceedings oo MR. : Okay. MR. : -- or whatever. this from after the fact. MR. J: Okay. When it comes to Reyes, the staff in the Special Housing Unit, how do they get notified of court dates, of the probability of someone being released from the facility? How does that process work? WR. MB: | They get a call from receiving, it's called receiving and discharge. WR, | gl Okay. MR. : Where the inmates are I just know EFTA00091787

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PR POoOwo4OnNewnrpE RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR Wh RPRR SOW MmMMyerRR Re Oo wc 77 processed in and processed out. So, they get notification that hey, such and such is leaving, and send him down. MR. Okay. Does the MCC usually, or sometimes, what’s the, how often or frequently does the MCC get advanced notice of an inmate leaving? MR. It depends. If the inmate's designated -- . : Um-hum. MR : -- then we know in advance he's designated. But usually the Marshalls will come and say, whoever is picking him up, “Hey, we're taking such and such.” We might get a list ahead of time if somebody's going to maybe one of the county facilities or some they just come and say, “Hey, we need this guy.” MR. Okay. Ultimately Friday, the 9th, Reyes is discharged. :— Um-hum. : Leaving Epstein, actually MR. MR. let's talk about without a cellmate. Was there a plan in place if that were to happen? MR. : We'd review it and say, okay, who can he be with? But he wouldn’t have and they were going through life-saving measures. MR. : And who contacted you? MR. : My Associate Warden, MR. LTC MR. : Yes. MR. : Uh -- MS. : Was she at the scene? MR. : No, she wasn’t. The Lieutenant had called the Captain. The Captain called her, and then she called me. VS, MM: And is it Lieutenant J, is that it? MR. MB: Lieutenant J was the Operations Lieutenant. MR. Would you mind, in that conversation, would you mind just telling us about that conversation? MR. She told me Epstein, they found him in his cell. They had a defibrillator on him and that they were working on him. MR. | Okay. MR. : And when she told me that, I Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WME OC woo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRR Un Wh RR SD MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn 78 been alone. MR. Was there anybody in the Special Housing Unit that was already vetted to room with, or cell with Epstein? MR. : No. Because again, didn't anticipate Reyes leaving -- MR. : Okay. MR. : -- like that. But we would’ve gotten somebody in there temporarily. MR. When did you first become aware of Reyes leaving the MCC? MR. : After the death of Mr. Epstein. MR. : Okay. MR. : Um, when I came, you know, that was like my first question was like, where is his cellmate? : Okay. :_ I was told he was gone. MR. : When were you first notified of the death of Epstein? MR. I got a call about 6:50 and told me that he) -- . _ Okay. . : == that he attempted suicide 80 was like, okay. Where are they at? Is EMS coming in? She said she didn’t have that much information because the Lieutenant was down with Epstein performing life-saving measures. So, that’s when I came in. MR. When did you start asking questions about Reyes? On the phone or when you arrived at the facility? MR. QM: So, when I got there, I was like, where is the cellmate. MR. Um-hum. MR. : I asked the Lieutenant, like where is his cellmate, and Lieutenant said, “I asked the same question when I went down and, you know, started.” He asked the officer, “Where's his cellmate?” And, you know, just couldn't, you know, he was disoriented and told me he had said that. So, that’s when we started, you know, started the process of where's Reyes? MR. Just for timeline purposes, about what time did you arrive? MR. : I got there about 7:30. MR. Okay. Who within the Special Housing Unit would've had the ability EFTA00091788

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PR POoOwo4OnNewnrpE RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RPRRPRRPR SD ew PM MMM Re Mme OS © oo nm w 81 or who within the Special Housing Unit would’ve had the ability or the authority to back-fil] Reyes’ spot as Epstein’s cellmate? MR Well what would've happened, which was instructed to them, was -- Okay. o they would've told the Lieutenant or Captain, hey, Reyes, I mean Epstein needs a cellmate. And then we would've started the process of getting him a cellmate. Because when, and this was Epstein’s routine. He got up early in the morning at 8, and he didn’t come back to his cell until about 7:30 at night from his attorney visits. Reyes left in the morning. So, he doesn’t come back to his cell until in the evening, which on that particular day, he got back about, from what I understand, around 6:45. MR. : Okay. MR. : Yeah. MR. : You said that they were instructed to notify that Epstein needed a cellmate? vk. a: you before -- So, the Captain, as I told that Reyes was dismissed? MR. ME: The Officers should've called the Lieutenant -- MR. : Which Officers? MR. : The ones working the unit? The Special Housing Unit? The Special Housing Unit officers. MR. : Okay. MR. : Because they know that he packed up. They -- MR. : Okay. . : So, once he gets packed up, : Okay. They should've known, hey, let me notify and move it up the chain, Epstein doesn’t have a cellmate. MR. QM: How does Reyes’ belongings get packed up? Who does that? MR. : When the staff in SHU pack up his stuff. MR. PM: © Okay. SHU would -- MR. BE: They’11 come to the door -- So, the staff in Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WME OC woo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRR Un Wh RR SD MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn Um-hum. . -- when I told them about the expectations. MR. : Yep. MR. : All that was Epstein needs a cellmate. Yep. And he’s to be having a cellmate at all times. If he doesn’t, then they need to notify you and then you can push it up. ’. a: ve. i: specifically that. MR. : Okay. to tell his, below him. WR. BB: He conveyed it to the Lieutenant, to the Officers, and disseminated it out. MR. QJ: Okay. So, he should've been notified. How should the notification have worked? . ZZ. When he -- . : == when Reyes, realized 84 So, you told the Captain - I told the Captain And the Captain was Um-hum. MR. : -- and if they say WAB, it’s with all belongings. . : Okay. . : So, they more than likely just took his stuff -- MR. > Um-hum. MR. : == and then whatever he had in his cell, and if he had something in the property room, they might've gone to get it. Or if they didn’t, then we would somewhere down the line ship it to wherever his destination is. WR. BM: «Is the staff that’s packing up Reyes’ belongings different than the Correctional Officers? MR. MBB: Reyes’ property would've been stored up in our Special Housing Unit. MR. : Right. MR. : And then it would've been taken by our Special Housing Unit staff to our receiving and discharge center. WR. MMM: «Is that staff, when you say “staff", is that a different responsibility than being a Correctional Officer? EFTA00091789

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR Wh RRR oN MmNMNyr Mrmr Ow mmr Wm & WwW 85 MR. QM: Well we're all, we're all correctional workers -- MR. Okay. MR. : -- but their department is, you know, the receiving and discharge -- Um-hum, -- of inmates. Okay. So, that’s where you process Got you. MR. : == or process out. So, they would take the stuff down to them. They'd process in and process out. MR. =. Okay. So, these are people that are different, have different responsibilities than, okay. MR. Right. MR. I got it. MR. The Special House -- MR. Thank you for -- MS. But the Officers in the SHU would have been responsible for packing up Reyes’ belongings? MR. Right. They would've taken 87 was departed the institution. MR. Okay. And that would be in the system somewhere? MR. Uh, yeah. They would be receipts, but our receiving and discharge would have that. MR. | Okay. MR. : And it will also show in Sentry, which we use to track on when he was keyed out. MR. Okay. MR. : Um-hum. MR. The Officers that were working in the Special Housing Unit would've observed Reyes’ belongings leaving. They were instructed via the Captain through your orders that if Epstein was to have a cellmate at all . | OS At all times. . : And that if that wasn’t, you know, supposed to be briefed up to the Captain and then ultimately to you. Is that correct? MR. MMMM: Right. The Lieutenant, if the SHU Lieutenant was working, the SHU So, just to recap. Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH RRR RR UW Wh RRR ona MNrMNNrNP wre ow rm wn Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe 86 all of his belongings. Now I don't know if he has some property still in the property room. But whatever was in his cell, they would've gathered and taken down. MR. So, the Officers that are in the Special Housing Unit either would have actively participated or observed Reyes’ belongings being packed up and leaving? MR. Right, and taken. And again, I don't know where Reyes went. Sure. : I don't know if he went to Um-hum. I don't know -- Right. -- but the terminology with MR. Sure. MR. So, he was being -- MR. Is there any documentation or reports about when Reyes’ belongings would have been collected from Special Housing Unit? WR. MM: =I wouldn't say belongings, but there would be something showing that he Lieutenant happened to be off that day. . > Um-hum, . : And then it goes up the chain to notify somebody that he doesn’t have a cellmate. Okay. : So, the SHU Lieutenant was He was off that day of -- And which SHU was that? Huh? It was the Lieutenant : Uh, Lieutenant [i So, who was the Acting Supervisor? MR. MB: We didn’t, well the Operations, if we don’t have a SHU Lieutenant on duty, the Operations Lieutenant is the Lieutenant that would come up, make rounds, and (Indiscernible *00:57:40). MS. Okay. And who was that on Friday? WR. MBM: I don’t recall. I have to look at the roster. EFTA00091790

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RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr 89 MR. QM: Okay. Let's talk a little bit about ae that day. Okay. > Um -- : Well, can I -- : Yes. -- say one thing? Of course. I sent a memorandum to, did he give it to ou? Guido? mR. a on? MR. : Well, I got a memorandum this morning -- . - This morning, yes. . : About the offices saying that they knew that he left and when he left he told the evening watch guy that Epstein needed a cellmate. MS. ME: Do you know why that’s dated today? MR. : Because when I came in this morning, one of my Lieutenants came in and I asked him, I said, “Hey, have you heard anything about what went on on Friday?” And that’s when he told me he had talked to the And Was suggested, was told by to write this memo? Yes. Okay. And the memo, just : I don’t think you need to (Indiscernible *00:59:26). MR. : Okay, yep. MS. : Yeah. MR. : == thanks. sure we're on -- MS. : I appreciate that, yeah. MR. : Overall staffing at MCC, if we can just go down that road for right now. Where, are you guys at full staff? Where are you in terms of staffing levels? We're understaffed. Okay. So, we're starting the hiring process right now, but we do have to, you know, there’s some posts that we can’t fill. But -- MR. MM: “Where are you in terms of Just -- Just making Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH RRR RR UW Wh RRR oma MNrMNNrNP wre ow nm wn Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe Officer, and the Officer told him he had notified them as to that, you know, Epstein needed a Bunkie. Okay. And who -- Um -- -- asked the Officer to put that in writing? VR. MM: Uh, Lieutenant J. had told him to put it in writing. MR. : Just for, uh, (Indiscernible *00:58:59) if I may just -- MS. : Yeah. MR. : -+ read it so we're on the same page, here. Um-hum. So, we have a memo dated August 12, 2019 to the Warden from -- : phonetic sp.) I -- : Yeah. Um-hum. And the subject is, Past Information from Special Housing Units. wR. BE: Um-hum. 92 staffing? Like what percentage are you, would you say? WR. MM: «1 believe we're in our low 80s, high 70s. I'd have to look at the staffing or whatever. But somewhere around 80%. Right, but it doesn’t only, that's not the only issue. The only issue -- MR. : Sure. MR. : -- is like we, let's say we're staffed to 80%, we've got about 30 people that we can’t use. Either they're on Workman's Comp. They’re on AWOL status. You name it, we have it. But the problem is, it takes a while to go through that process to remove an employee. So, we can’t just hire when you have a bunch of people like that on you. So, that’s where we're at. WR. QM: Okay. So, how do you as a Warden and as an institution compensate for being 20% understaffed? WR. MR: Well, I mean everyone has to chip in. I mean, we're not like the state where you have your Correctional workers and EFTA00091791

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RR POW OHO BwrPE RRR Bm Wh ee od al oe od Rr SoOW OND mre r Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr RPRRPRPRPR Wwonnu > mmn we wre © mr wn 93 you have the contractor workers. Everyone, despite the fact that you might have a different job title, you know how to perform the functions of a Correctional Officer. You have to qualify with weapons every year. You take training on working the housing units, and the majority of them weren't hired off the street as into their positions. There might be a few. But the majority were Correctional Officers and then promoted into the different positions. So, we have annual refresher training every year where we train and move on like that. But that’s just not, it’s not their primary discipline, being a Correctional Officer. WR. GM: You said all staff are trained as Corrections Officers? MR. The terminology is you're Correctional workers. MR. Okay. MR. : So, you know how to perform the functions of a Correctional Officer. MR. Okay. MR. : Carry firearms. You can do foreman. MR. ME. what is a material handler? MR. They work in the warehouse. So, in the warehouse, it has several functions. You either work in the commissary which the inmates shop for food. He can work in the laundry where you do that, or you work in the warehouse where you're processing -- MR. + Um-hum, MR. : -- in stuff. What's the other one? We also have an outside warehouse where we take deliveries. So, that’s our, and it's under our trust fund department. MR. Okay. And the night of August 9th, August 10th -- MR. : Right. MR. : == do you happen to know if Mr. Thompson was working as a Correctional Officer in that primary responsibility? MR. J: He was one of the Officers in the Special Housing Unit. MR. Okay. Do you know how often he works as a Correction, his responsibility as an Officer? rR cow oH DU Sw MNP RRR RR Wm Wh RR SD MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn RR BPOWwWo HO BwrPE RPRRPR RR SOM WPM Myre Oo wo 94 escorted trips. You could work the housing unit. The only ones who probably are exempt from that are doctors and attorneys and psychologists, the professionals. But everyone else, WR. WM: And where do the Correctional workers receive this training? Well initially you go to Okay. : Everyone goes to Glencoe for training. MR. Um-hum. MR. : And then specialized training, we have annual refresher training every year where we re-qualify and go over certain correctional topics. MR. Okay. Let me ask you about some s ecific people. MR. + Okay. MR. : If you happen to know if they, what their primary duties are. + Okay. : He's a material handler 96 MR. J: what they do is since he works in that department, we might, if we need him during the daytime, assign him over to the department. But he does overtime. He was working overtime then. So, we have a lot of overtime. So, individuals in other departments work the overtime. MR. Is that something they can do voluntarily, or are they told to do that? How does that work? MR. We have a volunteer list for the individuals that don’t work in the department. MR. Okay. MR. : If you're a Correctional Officer, we have what’s called a mandation list. So, if we call around and I say, “Hey, we need somebody to work this”, and everyone turns it down and says, “No, I don’t want to work it”, then we go to the mandation list. Okay. . : Which is you’re next up to be mandated to work a post. MR. Okay. Um -- MS. Was he mandated that EFTA00091792

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Re Swoon nu ewrPH RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr night? WR. MBM: «I believe he wasn’t. He wouldn't be mandated because he works as a material handler foreman. Got it. So, he signed up for it. : Okay. Yeah. So, just to clarify, the or only the Officers are on the mandated list? MR. : Right. MR. : The rest of Correctional workers have the opportunity to volunteer for overtime? WR. I: Right. overtime. You volunteer for Okay. : : Or during the daytime, I can say, “Look I need to fill these posts. I need you to come from your department to work over in Correctional services.” VR. SE: Okay. HE BD (phonetic WR. HE: Uh, is a Correctional "R. CE: e's an Officer. sp.) 99 He's an Officer? : Yeah. He's an Officer. : Davis? He's an Officer. BS: ME BE (ohonetic : She is the psychologist. . : Okay. So, the only one, the only one, , is the only one who's primary responsibility is not an Officer? : And Dr. Dt Doctor, yep. Okay, great. Are you notified when a Corrections Officer is mandated to work overtime? Who makes that decision? MR. MM: The Lieutenant on shift handles that. WR. MM: «What are the rules, or any policies in terms of overtime? Is there a limit? Is there, how does the overtime work? Is there a cap in terms of hours a week? MR MR. MS Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH Officer. WR. WE: She's a Corrections Officer? MR. : Corrections Officer. MR. : Okay. Do you happen to know if she was working overtime or her regular shift that_day? MR. : I’mnot sure. I think it might've been (Indiscernible *01:04:52). I’m not sure._I think her regular, I’m not sure. : Okay. : Her regular shift was evening watch, and then she did it. So -- Okay. Does she typically work in . Uh, yes. She’s been (Indiscernible *01:05:01). MS. : Okay. MR. : And I don't know if that was her assigned quarterly post, but I do believe it is. Captain JP . : He's the Captain. . : Zz — . : It's voluntary. . : Okay. . : And then it's, like you said, the prison business is 24 hours. MR. - Um-hum. MR. : We don't have the luxury to turn around and say we can't fill a post. Now I might have a post that might require, you know, X amount of people, but I have to staff it at a minimum where we're safe coming and Um-hum. : So, there's really no set amount. I mean, depending, you know, I’ve been here, when I first got here where our staffing was really bad where people were doing four a week. . : When you say -- . + You know? . : -- “four a week", what is . | OG Four overtimes a week, . : Now is, when you say, what is an overtime? Is that like another 8-hour shift? EFTA00091793

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr . : Another 8-hour shift. . : Okay. So, you -- So, it depends on, you know, the number of people we have, those volunteering. So, right now we're in the hiring process where we are getting, you know, bodies to fill in these positions. WR. QM: So, an overtime shift is eight additional hours? MR. :_ Eight additional hours. MR. : Okay. Is there any -- MS. : Go ahead. MR. : -+ is there any limit on how many 16-hour days a week an employee can work? WR. MM: You just can’t exceed the amount of 16 hours in a day. MR. HE: «Could you explain that for MR. : Okay. You work eight hours. Right. You can only work 16 hours Okay. You can’t work 24 hours. 103 don't know the s necifics -- MR. : Okay. MR. : -- on why somebody would. MR. : You know I had a previous job where my supervisor wouldn’t let us work 21 o for X, Yand Z. So, I days in a row. off. We had to take that 22nd day Right. . Do you guys have anything unofficial like that that -- MR. QM: Well they have their tno take those two days? MR. MBM: Yeah. You take your two days. What you choose to do with those two days is your business. But we don’t, like if someone, it has to be an emergency. Let’s say Okay. So, you get two days off. Is that -- -- and that -- Is it required that they Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH RRR RR UW Wh RRR ona MNrMNNrNP wre ow nm wn Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe 102 You can't, you’re not like a fireman where, you know, you're on duty 24 hours in. That you can do. Okay. SO, there's a limit on the . z= But there’s no limit on how many days in a row you can work those 16 hours? wR. QE: No. they could. WR. QM: Do you have any unofficial or any guidance on that front? WR. WB: No, not really, because I mean you have some people that sign up for overtime. MR. : Got you. MR. : You know? They say -- Um-hum. -- hey, they might, I don't know people’s financial situations. Right. But they might say, hey, you know, I need to get some extra money -- Okay. If somebody wants to, 104 it’s your Friday. You won't get mandated on a Friday because Federal Law states you have to have X amount of hours off during the week. Okay. In conjunction to days off. So, (Indiscermible *01:08:57). WR. MJ: So, the most 16-hour days an employee can work is five, so they have two days off? WR. WE: Well not necessarily, because you could say hey I want to work on my days off. VR. : Okay. on your days off then? MR. : On your days off. That's voluntary. MR. : Okay. I can’t just turn around -- Sure. -- and say you have to stay So, you can come in Okay. Anything on the overtime? EFTA00091794

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RR POW OHO BwrPE RRR Bm Wh ee od al oe od Rr SoOW OND mre r Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr RPRRPRPRPR Wwonnu > mmn we wre © mr wn 105 . : No. MR. : Okay. Talk a little bit about the cameras in the facility. MR. : Okay. MR. What is your understanding on the general reliability of them? MR. They're not good. We were just funded to get new cameras installed but, you know, when you’re installing the cameras, there’s a lot you have to do. The building is built in 1975. It’s not like a new building, and we've got to go through cinderblock. There’s a lot of things that, you know, are in that block. Asbestos. So, we have to do the wiring. SO, the system is outdated. Um -- MR. When you say they’re not, are they not reliable? Is it poor quality in recording? What's the -- MR. It's the recording, but what do they call that, the DVRs? MR. Okay. MR. : The ones that hold the recordings, they're breaking down. So, sometimes we have where they're not recording. We have to get it fixed, you know, more along 107 the quality. Like you go to some places and some agencies where you have that bird vision type camera. That's not what we have. MR. Okay. MR. : Imean, it’s, you can see things, we can do some identifying, but they’re not, you know, and they're only in certain locations. MS. QJ: And again, the chain of notification is the staff, the Corrections Officers or Corrections worker notifies the Shift Lieutenant? As far as with the cameras? Yes. If they're -- It depends on -- -- not operating. -- who's using the cameras and reviewing the cameras. MS. : Okay. MR. : You know, usually our investigative department's doing it, and they do the check, and if they come in and check and check the cameras and say, stuff’s not recording, then they notify the Comp Shop or the facilities manager and say, hey, we have a rR cow oH DU Sw MNP PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn RR BPOWwWo HO BwrPE RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn 106 those lines. MR. How were you aware, how are you as the Warden made aware of cameras not working appropriately or any issues with the recording devices? MR. The department head would bring it up to me, or the Associate Warden would tell me, you know, we were informed that the cameras aren't working. MR. What is the normal procedure when the cameras go down? MR. So, if the cameras go down, then the contact has to look and determine what’s the problem with the cameras. MR. : Okay. How long would you say that the cameras have been unreliable? WR. QM: what do you mean by “unreliable?” MR. I'm sorry, how long would you say the cameras have been not working? MR. QM: | They work, but periodically they go down. Okay. : That's what I meant by it, but they do record. You can, you know, it’s 108 problem. The cameras are not recording. MS. So, does SIS have a room where they can see the cameras in the facility? MR. : We have a, the camera room is in our communications room behind that area. MS. Okay. So, if a camera, if the camera in the SHU was not working -- MR. + Um-hum. MS. -- someone in that camera room would be able to see that there’s no feed from that_particular camera? MR. It's not the feed, it’s the recording. You can have, you always have the life feed that you can see what's going on. it's the recording of it. : Um-hum. : And the recordings MS. MR. typically, and don’t quote me on it, are ona two-week or less timeline. So, what it is is, if it gets to that two-week period, the memory gets full, then it starts re-recording over again. So, that’s how most camera systems work. MS. MM: But if for instance a camera in the SHU was down -- EFTA00091795

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR Wh RPRR SOW MmMMyerRR Re Oo wc 109 . |e Right. MS. : == someone in that camera room would see that the camera was down. MR. QM: Or the SIS would check and say, determine hey the recordings are not down or yeah, you're right, or even the screen. MS. + Um-hum, MR. : If we didn’t have a visual screen to say, hey, there's problems with the camera. MS. BMJ: And did that happen with the SHU camera? Was anyone notified that it wasn’t working? MR. : Well, and this is what I was told after the fact, the SIS Lieutenant I believe conveyed that to the Communication Officer that there was a problem with the cameras. ‘S. i: (phonetic sp.)? MR. : Lieutenant Doctor. MS. : And it’s a she? MR. : Yes, she. MS. : When did she know about Is that Lieutenant Doctor 111 I was told on Saturday. . EE: kay. You were told after MR. : After -- MR. : -+ the fact. MR. : -- the fact I was told. MR. : Okay. MR. : That the cameras weren't working. “R. ME: «I'm sorry, just who notified you of this? MR. a Lieutenant Doctor told me. MR. : Lieutenant, okay. Talking about, let's talk about phone calls in the SHU. Um-hum. What are the regulations or policies about giving inmates unreported phone calls? WR. MM: During the intake screening, you can come in and in certain SHU situations, an inmate will get an unmonitored call if they don't have their telephone account set up. MR. : okay. MR. : So, they're afforded that rR SCweeH4OD wre RRR RR UW Wh RRR ona MMM NNYVre Se wWwMNre Owe rm wn RR BPOWwWo HO BwrPE RPRRR Un Wh RR SD MmMNmMNrMNrMrRR Wwrr © wo oo 110 MR. QB: I believe she told me she told him on Thursday that she made a notification for it. : Okay. Um -- . And that would be an oral notification? MR. : MS. : MR. : So -- MS. : Okay. MR. : Are you made aware of those notifications as well that the cameras are down and not working? MR. : It would depend. MR. : Okay. MR. : You know, on how bad it was. If it was something that you can run out and fix immediately, you know, it would say, hey, you know, we can fix it. But if it was something that was going to be for a while, I would have to be notified. And were you notified of I’m not sure. Okay. But she did say she notified him. 112 opportunity. MR. : How does the inmate get a telephone account set up? MR. QM: Typically he has to go out of SHU into a housing unit and go through the voice recognition process in order to get set up for it. You can’t do it in the Special Housing Unit. MR. J: And we said earlier that Mr. Epstein was never left, was always in Special Housing Unit. MR. : Was always in the Special Housing Unit. WR. WE: Did he have an opportunity to get a telephone account set up? MR. : The problem with Mr. Epstein was he was in the attorney room all day. Okay. From beginning to end, and that’s something that you do during the daytime because our communications people are there. So, we did, and then again, he had to be in an assigned unit to get that. It’s just to have it set up. wR. GR: Okay. Was Mr. Epstein EFTA00091796

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr allowed phone calls? MR. :_ Was he what? MR. : Was Mr. Epstein allowed phone calls? WR. MM: Yeah. His initial one, he didn’t get his initial one, so we had to give him a call, his initial call when he came in. Okay. : Then while you're in the Special Housing Unit, you're entitled to one call every 30 days. MR. : Okay. MR. : So, he was entitled to a 30- day phone_call. MR. And are those normally monitored, recorded? How do those? VR. ME: Typically in his case, that he didn't have his monitor set up, the unit manager stood there and listened to the call. MR. : Okay. Um -- MS. And would that be the Lieutenant? “wR. GE: No. Manager. MS. It was the Unit And who would that be? 115 MR. BBM: We didn’t, because again, he wasn't set_up. MR. a. Okay. Are you aware of how many phone calls Mr. Epstein’s made while in the Special Housing Unit? MR. I'm not sure. I’m not aware how many made. But I don’t, I know he made that one -- MR. | Um-hum. MR. : -- that day and I’m aware of the initial one, but I don’t believe he made that many, because I do believe I saw a correspondence that his attorney made to our attorney about him getting a phone call. MR. : Okay. MR. : That he hadn’t gotten a phone call. So, there’s some correspondence on that. MR. MM: Okay. You got any else on ‘ : No. . + Okay. . HBB: Let's go over real quick (Indiscernible *01:18:13). MR. We covered this a little Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH RRR RR UW Wh RRR ona MNrMNNrNP wre ow nm wn Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe 114 That was Mr. [i a. So, Mr. J should 0 that phone call? MR. Right, and from what I understand, he was listening. MR. : Okay. Are those phone calls recorded anywhere to ensure just to -- MR. No, they're not recorded, but we can trace the phone line to get the phone number. MR. MR. was made. WR. QM: Okay. And in tracing of that to get the phone number, is the length of the call -- Okay. : To determine where the call Yes. -- noted as well? Yes. . Okay. But in terms of putting that into a system or a monitoring, there’s not a database for that? 116 earlier. I just wanted to go over it again. When were you first notified of Mr. Epstein’s suicide, or medical, or situation? MR. : About 6:45 -- MR. : Okay. -- 6:50. Who did you notify? I immediately called my boss : Okay. MR. : == to let him know and then tell him that I was on my way to the institution. Did you notify anybody . : Who, me? . : Yes. . : No. I just, I let him know, get dressed, get to the institution. MR. : Okay. When you arrived at the institution, did you speak to any staff there? WR. WM: When I got there, I saw obviously the Lieutenant. Um -- MR. Which -- EFTA00091797

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PR POoOwaoHnOnN ewnrHe RRR Bm Wh ee od al oe od Mmrrowonnuw mre r Wn & Ww PR POwWo4ON ewnrP RR wr RPRRR SOW > MMM Re mr © woo mmr Wm & WwW 117 MS. : Lieutenant 2 MR. : Uh, Lieutenant when he came in and my first, you know, any time you have a suicide attempt, you want to make sure your staff are all right and how they're doing. So, I went to, you know, to check on him to kind of get a debrief on what was going on. He kind of debriefed me on the situation. Um -- MR. tell you? MR. So, I asked him, so I basically told him what happened, and he said, he talked to Officer MM and she said we didn’t do the 3 o'clock count or the 5 o’clock count. And then he said he talked to J, Officer | she said, no he talked to Officer and that Officer MM said, “I messed up. We messed up." Something about it’s not her fault. But he said he was just talking way off the line. Let me back-track a little. I did make one more call, because I couldn’t get in contact with Lieutenant [. I called up to the Special Housing Unit. What did Lieutenant J 119 said, try to find him if he’s outside. So, they went outside and they said, you know, he was gone. I didn't see Ms. MM, but I told them to get a memorandum from her on what happened. They told me said she wasn’t feeling well and she had to talk to her Union rep. So, and I said, “You know what, let them go. We'll get back with them or somebody will get back with them.” And they left. And we just started the process of collecting and preserving. MS. Have ME or HM been in to work since then? MR. No. , I sent some support staff on Sunday to go talk to them. Today, the mother of * child, she works at the institution but they’re not together, said, “Hey, he was with her all weekend but she can't get in contact with him." I sent her and a Lieutenant to go over to his house to find out if he’s okay. He called me a little irate saying, “You know, you're sending people to my house. You know, I was sleeping.” I said, “I’m checking on your well-being”, = SCweeH4OD wre MMR RRP RRP RP RRR Pow oN Sew MP mM wr mre we Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe RRR wre RPRRR SOW Myre RO woo Mmmenmn WM & WM MR. : Okay. MR. : And I believe Ms. Ii picked up the phone, and I asked her, you know, what was going. And she told me what was going on. But she really couldn’t talk. So, then I came, when I got to the institution, I saw her and I said, “Hey, are you all right? Is everything fine.” And she was like okay. So, I had somebody from our crisis support team that was there talk to her to make sure that she_was all right, and then I went to try to find She said MM had left. So, I said, okay, “Left where? Where did he go?” They said, you know, “He went home. He was distraught.” So, then I get another call saying was outside, and that he told me, “I’m not answering any questions from you. I want my union", I said , “I'm not concerned about what happened. I’m concerned about your well- being. Make sure you’re all right. You've been through a traumatic experience”, and he just kept talking. So, there was a staff member out there. I 120 you know. And then I didn't know, and I asked him, I said, “Did you call in for work today?” And he said, “Yes, I did.” And he said, “He was sleeping and he was tired.” And I said, “Well I'm just checking on your well-being and just seeing how you are”, and I left it at that. : That was this morning? : That was this morning. MS. : So, he basically called in sick today? MR. He called in sick today. She's on days off Monday and Tuesday. us. Pa Okay. MR. : I'm going to assign both of them with no inmate contact, so they're going to be away from inmates and assigned on the outside (Indiscernible *01:23:09). : And then Lieutenant i. And then that’s basically told me, and I told him, “Write a memorandum on what was said", and he wrote the memorandum and he submitted it. MS. Has he been in to work since Saturday? EFTA00091798

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RR wr PRR SOW Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ll RRR Wh RPRR SOW MMM Re Mme OS © oo mmr Wm & WwW 121 MR. QM: Yes, he did. Actually he stayed there late on Saturday. He basically worked a double, and then he came back and worked during the day on it. So, he hasn’t taken any time off. Is he there now? He's there. He's there today, 50 he’s working here. MS. : And -- MR. : Oh, and I do have an addition. And I did ask him, you know, when he got there what happened, and he says, he doesn’t know what the condition was because when MM called for the emergency medical, he opened the door and took him down himself and started life-saving measures. MS. MJ: So, Epstein was hanging from the door? MR. :_ We don’t know what he was doing because was the first one there, and when responding staff came, he was already there doing compressions and life-saving measures. So, I definitively can’t say where, was he hanging? What position he was or not because nobody knows when they responded, so. know, the life-saving measures without endangering your safety. So, he went in and, you know, so again, there’s no idea of what the cell looked like, what his position was, or anything. MS. : Captain HB, are the at work now? MR. Captain MS. : I think. MR. : His secretary is J. MS. : Okay. MR. : Yeah. MS. : That may be a mistake. MR. : Yeah. MS. : So, Captain [I was the Captain on Friday; right? MR. : Yes. Okay. And I need to, and I'm not sure if he was at work either. I think he might’ve been off. But [MM is his secretary. MS. : okay. And Lieutenant is it ? vk. a: was the and Captain Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WME OC woo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRR Un Wh RR SD MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr &—wWwrNre © © oo rm wn 122 WR. QM: what is the policy regarding if an Officer or staff member sees an inmate in_that situation? WR. MM: Okay. And I won't want to quote this is a policy thing, but you call for assistance and you wait for assistance to come because you don’t know if that’s a ploy. So, if you go in there as one person, and you know, when somebody's hanging, that's dead. That is dead weight. So, you go in there, you don’t know if it’s a ploy. So, you go in there and get overpowered, guess what? Now that individual has the cell door keys for every key on that range, and that could be a recipe for disaster. So, it might sound inhumane that, you know, we have to wait because the individual on the grill can't come down range either because if they get overpowered, guess what, we've lost awhole unit. And that’s the most secure unit in the institution. So, she has to stay outside with the keys on the grill because there are two different keys. They don’t mix. And we wait for responding staff to come in and perform, you midnight Lieutenant. MS. : Okay. And he, she? MR. She worked, apparently she worked at night and BM relieved her early. is. -_ Okay. MR. : At 5:33, but then I heard she came back and then left again. So, I don't know, I believe she went up to the unit. Has she been at work since I believe she’s on days off. : Okay. So, she’ll be back tonight. . Okay. Do you want to step out for a minute? MR. : Actually before -- MS. : Unless you have anything (Indiscernible *01:27:13). MR. : Just a few -- MR. : Okay. MR. : -- if I can jump back a little bit. MR. + Okay. MR. : Specifically go back to, did you have any one-on-one interactions with EFTA00091799

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RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR Wh RRR oN MmNMNyr Mrmr Ow mmr Wm & WwW 125 Epstein? WR. MB: Let's see, I had one, I saw him by the attorney visit, small conversation. Another one I saw him when I was making rounds on the unit when he had first gotten into the cell with Reyes. He was going into the shower. I asked him, “How was everything going.” He said, “I’m good. I'm fine." And then Reyes, I said, “How's he doing?” Reyes was like, “I want to go back to a unit.” So, you know, was just that type of conversation while making rounds. Okay. Okay. And did you want just step Thank you. outside? MR. = Huh? MR. fH: Do you mind if we just take a step out? MR. : No, I have no problem. MR. : It is 12:23. We're pausing the interview. We're resuming the interview at this time. It is 12:29 in the afternoon. Okay. So, the first 127 the email that you sent listing here are the three possibilities for -- Oh, yes. : -+ who's -- All of that -- -- the best. All of that. Yeah. If you want that -- -- you're preserving. -- that’s there. It’s preserved. MS. : Okay. MR. : I'm sure this will inevitably happen, and it’s a report for this. Has that already been drafted? Is that a process? For? MR. : MR. a. Will there be an incident report regarding the discovery of Jeffrey Epstein’s body? MR. : It's called a report of incident, a 583. So, we did that today. MR. + Okay. MR. : You know -- MR. + Um-hum, MR. : -+ just a brief statement on Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH RRR RR UW Wh RRR ona MNrMNNrNP wre ow rm wn Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe 126 question is, I just want to make sure we have the name right. Okay. The Lieutenant or the Captain that you told that Epstein should have a cel lmate? Well, it was Captain : BBB, okay. Yeah. Okay. And I know you're probably already: doing this, but we just wanted to make sure you're preserving all of the emails that you referenced, any text messages that you've sent about this, any communications that you’ve had at all. MR. QJ: Well when I had gave the direction, it was given verbally in a meeting. MS. : Um-hum. MR. : I didn't send emails out. I had a direct conversation. Okay. So, it was everyone in the room. MS. BE: Okay. what happened, the times -- | gl Okay. But for instance, -- and moving forward with . TB: (0 you know who drafted The SIS Lieutenant does it. Okay. . ag And then I review it because it’s ultimately sent from me. It's a report of incident -- Um-hum. MR. : MR. | -- to our central office. So, I look at it, the synopsis. : Okay. . : Just for terminology to make sure it’s accurate. And it’s just a brief statement saying that, you know, he made rounds. MR. | Um-hum. MR. : He was unresponsive. Life- saving measures were initiated. Taken to the outside hospital and then he was pronounced deceased at that time. And then we just move on from there. EFTA00091800

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR Wh RPRR SOW MMM Re Mme OS © oo mmr Wm & WwW 129 Just a couple of more -- Um-hum. Ez -- housekeeping stuff just to say, have you had any contact with the press regarding this? No, they have not. you direct] 2 MR. : Have you directed any staff to destroy anything? MR. :_ No, I have not. MR. : What directions have you given the staff in terms of preserving things? MR. MB: So, initially when we came, when I got in, I told the Captain, get all the log books up there, the rounds, anything pertaining to get it and anything we can think of that might be needed. And it’s given to the SIS. It’s in the SIS office with the SIS Lieutenant. So, told them to preserve it, and whoever needed it, I know the IG has come by. They’ve taken some stuff. But basically preserve everything that might be needed to be No, I have not. Has any press contacted 131 in his cell, or? MR. QJ: Anything in general as it relates to him? MR. QM: Not that I can think of. I mean, it’s just documents that we're still trying to_gather -- : Sure. -- and locate, but -- It’s nothing odd because I don't know what happened in that cell. MR. + Um-hum. MR. : §o, I don't know what would be -- Okay. MR. : MR. .. -- considered odd. Were you aware of him having any contraband in his cell? MR. :_ Contraband? MR. : Anything -- MR. : Well -- MR. : -+ he wasn't supposed to have? Any unapproved things in his cell? MR. : No. MR. + Okay. MR. : I mean, he would've received rR SCweeH4OD wre RRR RR UW Wh RRR ona MMM NNYVre Se wWwMNre Owe rm wn RR BPOWwWo HO BwrPE RPRRR Un Wh RR SD MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr &—wWwrNre © © oo rm wn 130 preserved. And then if any requests come, you know, we’ll_go and get it and preserve it. MR. : Are you -- MS. : Can I just ask one quick question about the log books? Yeah. : Actually while she’s looking at it -- MS. : Yeah. MR. : == do you mind? MS. : This is -- MR. : Are you aware of any objects missing from his cell? Are you aware of anything peculiar occurring since his suicide? Since his body was discovered? You mean missing from his Yes. I didn’t observe the cell, so I don't know what's in -- MR. QJ: Were you ever notified of any, after his body was discovered, have you been notified of any peculiarities or anything that stuck out in your mind as odd? WR. MBM: As far as what would've been an incident report. - okay. . : And the only incident report he had was, I guess it was the cloth that was found on the initial one, but then our Disciplinary Hearing Officer concluded that we couldn't’ sustain any charges on him because it was inconclusive -- MR. : Okay. -- with it, but that’s -- Okay. And were you aware of him having any enemies or anything, or being a specific target by anybody? . Where? In the institution? No. I mean no one’s came to me specifically saying, you know, “He’s my enemy", or_all that, so I don’t, you know. WR. WM: Was he not to be, not to be celled with anybody because of any problems that he would have, or -- I mean. Let me rephrase that a little. Were you aware of any other inmates who had targeted him specifically? EFTA00091801

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr No. Okay. Um-hum. The log books -- Um-hum. : == just for the record, I'm showin a_log book Tier G dated 08/10/2019. WR a. Right. MS. : So, this is filled out by a Corrections Officer -- MR, : Right. MS. : == who's doing the checks MR. : Right. MS. : == every 30 minutes. MR. : Um-hum, Correct? Yes. And they’re supposed to write the time they start and end and then initial it? MR. :_ Who did it. MS. : And then the Operations Lieutenant signs it at the end of the shift. MR. : The shift that they reviewed time is now 12:35. Warden, we really appreciate your time. . : Okay. : And the interview is completed, oh actually before we do that. Is there anything that you would like to tell us? Any statements that you would like to make? Anything you think we should know about the incident in general? Just wanted to give you an opportunity if there's anything that you think we should know that we haven’t discussed. MR. MM: «I can’t think of anything else. But I mean, as it comes along, I'll pass it on to the IG. Anything I get or any information. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Okay. This is not complete for the simple fact that, you know, with the emergency coming, I had them take it and preserve it. So, it was part of the preservation. So, that's probably why it doesn’t go all the way up to 8 o'clock. MS. : Got it. MR. : Because as soon as I came in, I told the Lieutenant grab the 30-minute checks. MS. QJ: And is this a signature or a circle for a signature? MR. :_ That's a signature. MS. : Okay. MR. : Whoever was in, and I believe, and I’m not sure, but if it was the morning watch Lieutenant, it would be Lieutenant Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH RRR RR UW Wh RRR ona MMM Nyre WNMrr Ow . I think that’s all the questions that we have. WR. ME: Great. The 136 That’s it. CERTIFICATE I hereby certify that the foregoing pages represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Interview of i EFTA00091802