1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL AUGUST 12, 2019 FENTON TRANSCRIPTION 28720 Roadside Drive, Suite 250 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 991-8002 Today is Monday, August 12. The following will be a voluntar interview of BOP Warden [a P| in furtherance of OIG investigation to be determined, for the purpose of transcription, will now identify all present in the interview. I'll ask everyone to say and spell their last name, as well as identify their working title and employer. I am Special Agent i, [a Office of the Inspector General. Special Agent i. I. with the Fer. : , Wiarcen, Federal Bureau of Prisons. Spelling of the name is first name is , last name is Lk in, apostropheijas in I ‘Thank you. warden J + Um-hum. : == you have reviewed and signed Department of Justice OIG Form 226-2 which is Warnings and Assurances of Employees Request to Provide Information on a Voluntary APPEARANCES: Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: WITNESS: OTHER APPEARANCES: Basis. form? + No. : Would you like time to review it with an attorney, or would you like an attorney here? a. For now, I don’t need an attorney. a. Okay. Are you currently under the influence of any substances, or is there any reason to prevent you from fully understanding my questions and answering truthfully today? Do you have any questions about this No. I'll now swear you to the statements you're about to make. Please raise your hand and repeat after me. 1, 2 oe. : Hereby solemnly swear or affirm. HE: fereby solemnly swear or affirm. That the statements that I'm about to make. EFTA00064519

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR Wh RPRR SOW MMM Re Mme OS © oo mmr Wm & WwW MM; That the statements I’m about_to make. Shall be the truth and the whole truth. Shall be the truth and the whole truth, Thank you, sir. : Um-hum. Warden would you mind telling us a little bit about your career with BOP? When you started, how you became a Warden? : Uh -- How you moved up the ranks. I started out as a Correctional Officer, and I was promoted to a Lieutenant. From there, I went to Special Investigative Agent at our regional office, and then I went from there, I was promoted to Captain, and then I was Associate Warden, and then from there I went to DC as a Chief Internal Affairs, and now in my present position. Great. How long have you 7 understanding of when he arrived and that type of, when he arrived, how he was placed, where he was placed, and the reasons behind that? : I don’t remember the specific date he arrived, but we didn’t, what happened was, we weren't told that he was going to be coming to the institution. Okay. When he initially came, he was dropped off on the weekend, and we didn’t find out until Monday, myself, that he had been placed at the institution. And from then on, we, you know, went through the whole process of the screening, his medical stuff. Just normal procedures that we follow and (Indiscernible *00:04:04). : Okay. Now when you say “he was dropped off over the weekend”, when somebody arrives at the facility, what's the normal -- HI ean typically if somebody's that high profile -- Um-hum. -- we should've been notified and said hey, he’s coming in. We rR SCweeH4OD wre RRR RR UW Wh RRR ona MMM NNYVre Se wWwMNre Owe rm wn RR BPOWwWo HO BwrPE RPRRR Un Wh RR SD MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr &—wWwrNre © © oo rm wn been the Warden? I've been here since May of 2018. Okay, great. role, you've done a lot of internal investigations with the prison and you've worked with the Department of Justice for -- + Um-hum. -- moving forward, just as a note for the record, you're aware that failure to be honest with us today would be considered a criminal offense; correct? : Okay, great. Let’s talk a little bit about some overall policies at the prison to start with. : So, actually let me back up. We're here today to talk about, specifically Jeffrey Epstein. Um-hum. The inmate. Um-hum. Would you mind just telling us a little bit about when, your Just, your weren't. : You know, I mean, we saw it on the news, but it didn’t say. They just said they had him in custody, but we didn't get any formal, I didn’t get any formal notice that he had been brought into the institution. So, he was dropped off, and you know, the Lieutenant on shift processed him in and brought him into the institution. We didn’t find out_or realize it until Monday. So, it was Monday that you first were officially made aware of it? That I was made aware. You know, we found out, and I don’t remember if it was from looking at the news reports, we put it together that he had been brought into the institution. We went through our Monday morning meeting that we went through. So, that’s when -- When he first arrived, was he placed in general population? Do you know where he was placed? a. I don’t recall where he was placed when he came in. EFTA00064520

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RPRRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr HE: some point, he was placed _in Special Housing Unit? Yes. Known as the SHU. Right. how did he end up there? Well, he was a new commitment. He was high profile. So, we placed him in the Special Housing Unit so we can further evaluate, you know, his status. Is he ready for general population? And we do that with all inmates, but -- Okay. : == and then to see, okay, any separation issues. Any threats to him, before we put him out there in general population. Was he ever in general population? I don't recall. I don’t, I'm not sure if it might've been the first day when he came_in. Okay. : But I'm not sure, so I mean, I would have to look at the 37 to confirm. 11 them going into the general population. So, it's a case-by-case basis on how we determine it. HE: okay. what are the policies in terms of when you're notified if someone enters Special Housing Unit or is discharged from Special Housing Unit? —, Well what it is is, it’s routed the individual, it’s called a Release Form. So, several people sign it. They review it. I believe psychology, CMC, the Captain, and it goes to the Associate Warden and then they sign what we call is a Kick-Qut. Meaning everybody's reviewed it and said, okay, this person is appropriate for general population. —, Okay. For Mr. Epstein, after that, he was never put in general population; correct? : No Was the determination to keep him in Special Housing? What was the communication that goes on there? Well we, now initially when he came in, it’s the goal to determine, okay, can they go to general population. Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH RRR RR UW Wh RRR oma MNrMNNrNP wre ow nm wn Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe 10 But as far as you know, that Monday, the first business day after the weekend he was initially dropped off. : Right. From that point forward, was he ever in general population? + No. a. Okay. What are the policies in terms of, or is there policy that dictates when somebody goes into general population from the SHU after the first arrival? Well, what we do is we evaluate the individual to see if they're ready for general population, if they can hang, you know -- Um-hum. -- if they can populate. Okay. : And it's a number of factors. It depends. I mean, if I have a gang member coming in, I'm taking into consideration separation issues on it. If it’s, you know, somebody that might've been fraud or bank fraud, then we determine if it’s any issues of 12 Okay. : So, between evaluating him, at the same time, we're looking at saying, okay, can he go to general population. a in hu. : So, it’s a dual role that we're going to -- : Sure. : But I had gotten word, and I don't recall the date, where from my Regional Director which stated he’s not to go to general population until further notice. The Regional Director, where is that in the chain of command for BOP? We have five regional offices. Okay. : Each region has a Regional Director. : Okay. : This is the Northeast Region. : Okay. : Where we have 21 institutions. So, he supervises and is in EFTA00064521

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Re Swoon nu ewrPH charge of the 21 institutions. Okay. So, is he -- (Indiscernible *00:08:37). -- your direct supervisor? He's my director supervisor. Who is that? phonetic sp.). ? Okay. : Yeah. And Mr. [I told you do you recall if it was verbally or an email? Phone call? We had talked about it, too, but I would have to check if there was an emai] to go with it. But we did talk and said, hey, we're going to hold off on putting him out in general population. —. Okay. Do you recall when you officially were, you and Mr. , spoke about this? I don’t want to give you the wrong date. But it was within that, you know, maybe_a couple weeks after he arrived. a: Okay. So, it was a few weeks after he arrived -- HE: Were there any other specific directions or instructions given to the staff regarding him? —. Well, so at the time of him staying in there, we had to find him initially a roommate. Okay. : So, and it’s hard especially in Special Housing Unit when you've got gang members in there that are not appropriate to be housed with. So, we came up with, I came up with , Who was in there. White male, probably be able to cope with him. And that's typically how we, you know, that’s part of the evaluation process. Is it standard for inmates in Special Housing Unit to have cellmates? We typically would like for them to have it. Sure. : But certain situations dictate that they can. If an inmate's a total separation from a group, and we get word from US Attorney's office or the arresting agents that, hey, he's to be totally separated, then won nn &wnrpHe : Okay. After Mr. J told you to keep him, or it was agreed upon -- : == to keep him in Special Housing Unit. : Right. : Who did you notify that he was to stay in the Special Housing Unit? How does that communication -- WM: So, what it does is I get my exec staff together -- : Um-hum. : -- which is my Associate Wardens, the Captain, my exec, and we have our meetings, and I tell them he’s not, you know, I lay out the specific instructions. He's not to go out to general population. And -- Were there, sorry. : Go ahead. : No. And that's basically how we start. : Okay. : Yeah. 16 they would be housed by themselves. They could have an incident in the institution, you know, for example our gang members, somebody has an issue, and for example, the Bloods, then we have to say hey, let's separate him from there. You know? Was there any directions specifically that Mr. Epstein was to have a cellmate at all times? :_ From psychology when -- : Okay. : -- said hey, that he’s required, he needs to have a cellmate at all times. : Okay. And that occurred later on? When he first arrived, there was no specific directions regarding that; correct? No, it wasn’t. Okay. Wait, let me. Sure. You mean when he first came in were we talkin about him having a cellmate? al Initially. : I don't recall any talks EFTA00064522

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Re Swoon nu ewrPH about him. : Okay. : Initially, and trying to figure out when he first came in, how he was housed. I don’t recall how he was housed when he first came in, but -- Okay. The MCC is no stranger to high profile -- : Right. : -- inmates. Generally speaking, how do you normally, or generally handle these type of high profile inmates? Any other special considerations or concerns. How does this work? Again, you come in. We evaluate him to determine, okay, if they can go out to general population or not. We've had, you know, we've had a bunch that come in that were able to go out. We ha (phonetic sp.), you know, the phone that, I don't know if Indiscernible *00:12:41). Okay. Him. So, when he first came just going over some of the overall high- profile inmates and the general -- + Um-hum, : -- evaluation of them. Going back to, you said earlier that a few weeks had occurred. You and the Regional Director discussed keeping Epstein in the Special Housing Unit. Um-hum. How often was the Regional Director being briefed on Epstein? a. I guess the situation dictated it. If something happened, then we'd notify him, or he needed some questions for him, he would call me. But I don’t want to, I don't recall the specific amount of times. But we were in contact. MS. Um-hum. :_ Frequent contact. : Okay. How often were you, are you notified differently of high-profile inmates or how often were you being aware or notified of Epstein’s housing situation? : Well, I mean, he was in the Special Housing Unit. So, I knew where he was. Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH 18 in, you know, he was high profile. So, we brought him in to determine -- FEMALE VOICE: Excuse me. : Yeah. FEMALE VOICE: Can you guys step out here for just _a moment? : We, pausing the interview at 10:55 a.m. (tape paused). We're resuming the interview with Warden : Yeah. (Indiscernible *00:00:14). The time is now 10:56. Joining the interview room is Assisting United States Attorney from the Southern District of New York, : , I apologize. Can you spell your name for transcription purposes? MS, : Sure. , i . Thanks. : Thank you. Before we were 20 Okay. : So, it wasn’t like I had to be updated as to where he was. I knew where he was. : I mean, I knew that he went on his attorney visits, spent the whole day there. Would be the first one in, last one out. So, I mean, that’s what I knew. And then I kind of (Indiscernible *00:02:06) with the attorneys. I had some outside attorneys complain about, you know, they were taking up the attorney room. So, I knew that was, you know, those issues were coming up with the attorney room. a. Okay. Going back to general policies at the -- + Um-hum. : -+ within the BOP, actually when Epstein arrive -- + Um-hum. : -- I think we already covered this, but just to, were any special arrangements or considerations given to him? : As far as -- EFTA00064523

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr 21 HR: Obviously you said earlier he was put in the SHU on Monday. : Right. : After, was it, at that point, was there any issues that you're aware of regarding him? Anything that you needed to be aware of other than just who he was? No. Just who he was and the basic screening. The intake screening. MEN 2) At the tine he first arrived, did you have any, was there any notification of any mental health concerns? : No, not that I know of. Okay. How -- : Are you talking about the weekend he came in, or -- : Yeah. (Indiscernible *00:03:19). First arrival. That weekend, I don't know. But I know afterwards, he was medically assessed and they were, you know, our health service department assessed him and he, I think he might have told him that he had certain medications. | far as what? If they find something in there? : Yes. : Like what would be an example? I mean -- Any medical concerns that people need to be aware of. Any psychological issues. How does that information get disseminated? 23 Because when we talk about medical issues, some of that falls under privacy issues. + Um-hum. : So, you know, to be divulged as to -- : Okay. -- just like that. Sure. But as far as psychological, if it was something that psychologists did an interview and said, hey, there’s a mental health issue or something, then she would, you know, she would let her Associate Warden know. She would let me know that, hey, there’s some issues. it’s not going Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH RRR RR UW Wh RRR ona MNrMNNrNP wre ow nm wn Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe Okay. When -- : -- that he was taking. When inmates come into the MCC, are they all screened for mental health issues or medical issues? Well, yes. They come in, you're screened for your medical. The unit team screens you and psychology screens you. But -- HR: What timeframe does that occur? Typically like with him, he came in on the weekend. So, it depends if there was a psychologist. Maybe the next day someone would go screen him, the on-call psychologist. But, you know, or Monday if someone came in. But typically the on-call psychologist is there through the weekend and will screen them. Who is notified of the results of those screenings? : of? Of the medical screen and psychological screenings, who gets notified of that? | okay. And when he first arrived, were you made aware of any medical or mental issues regarding him? Mental health, I don’t recall any mental health. But I was told that he was on certain medications or whatever. But it was general. It wasn’t -- Okay. -- anything major. Okay. And just, and that's a general policy for all inmates that arrive? 24 : The screening, yeah. Just the medical screening. The all get that? : Right. : Is there any, as a result of those screenings, is there any, does it have any bearing on where they’re placed, whether it’s special housing or general population? a. I mean typically if you do, like I said, if you do an intake screening and the individual comes in and they have no issues, no separation issues, and, you know, then they can populate like anyone else. But EFTA00064524

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Re Swoon nu ewrPH RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr 25 if there are issues with them going out in general population; i.e., safety issues, then you would be placed in the Special Housing. : Until we could further evaluate if you could go to general population. : If someone during the mental health screening, the mental health, the psychologist deemed them to be suicidal -- Okay. -- what are the suicidal watch policies as it relates to that? a. So, if the psychologist was to say, hey, they're suicidal, then they would be placed on suicide watch. + Okay. : Now if the psychologist is not there and someone exhibits suicidal ideations or statements or thoughts, then they're placed on suicide watch. : Can you explain to me what suicide watch is, where it is in the MCC -- It's on the second floor of the institution, on the same floor of the hospital. An inmate. In the cell? No. Qutside the cell. + Okay. It's a cell where you sit there. and observe. Okay. another inmate or a staff? No, it's a trained inmate companion. Now, we have four cells. If those cells get full, then we have to move them up to the Special Housing Unit and then put a staff watch on them. Is the companion Okay. What policies are in place for suicide watch as it relates to staff response, notification, how people get notified, if they're moving from suicide watch to off suicide watch. How does that work? That works through psychology. : Okay. : Psychology evaluates and they'll say, okay, we’ve evaluated him and, you know, wherever we're going, typically you always usually go from the Special Housing Unit Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH 26 : And it's a cell, and if you go on suicide watch, you're placed in a smock. Okay. : That covers you and then you're watched for 24 hours. Now the smock, is that made of paper, or -- It’s cloth. Cloth? It's like, you ever see those movies where they have those heavy bomb vests? > Uh -- | og It's something, I mean, I don’t want to you know, say, but it’s something like that. Okay. And it just hangs. : Sure. Hangs on them just like that. So -- And you said they’re monitored for 24 hours. How are they, is it -- There’s a companion sitting 28 to suicide. So, they'd say, okay you know what, they're ready to go back up. : Okay. What role, how does the program, is the psychologist the program coordinator? a: the department. The chief psychologist runs : Okay. : And then she has various psychologists that work under her. : Okay. : And then evaluate because we have a different mission as far as we have a forensic mission. So, we get a lot of forensic studies in the institution. : Okay. : And then we have a regular psychologist also that handles the inmate population but they work together and they handle everything. : Okay. Who's ultimately responsible for placing somebody on suicide watch or off suicide watch? Well placing it, a staff member comes and says hey, this guy is EFTA00064525

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Re Swoon nu ewrPH 29 You can place him on suicide watch. Okay. Anybody in the institution can do that? Yeah. If I come upon an inmate that’s saying, “Hey, I'm going to kill myself.” Okay, we get him on suicide watch. Psychology comes and, you know, evaluates them and then comes up with a plan. Within the psychology suicidal. department -- + Um-hum. -- or the medical department there in mental health, who there ultimately makes that decision? I believe, and don't quote I believe the psychologists. Okay. : You know, they’re trained professionals. So, they can make a decision and they consult with the Chief in, you know, determining okay what’s the plan of action to move forward. me on this. And are you, when someone's placed in suicide watch, are you notified of that? : No. a... Does every institution have an inmate companion program? : Yes. MS. : Who's the Chief Psychologist? NN: NN (ones sp.). HR: And Ms. BR is the one who is ultimately responsible for determining if someone is on suicide watch and removing them; correct? 31 Well in conjunction with our staff. Okay. : Because you could be, a psychologist is assigned to the individual when they're working a plan with them. And if they come to the determination that hey, you know what, they no longer need to be on suicide watch. | Okay. But as the clinical director, she’s ultimately responsible. : She's not the clinical. She's the Chief Psychologist. Re SCweeH4OD wre 30 MM: Yeah. They send out a form every day stating like who's on suicide watch, who's on psyche observation. So -- : Okay. : -- we're aware of who it is and then they'll send out a form if there's no one on there. You said earlier that while on suicide watch, there was an observer. : Right. How does an inmate become an observer? : It's an inmate companion. A companion, I’m sorry. : So, it’s a trained program. So, they have to go through training. They have to take courses, and then they become eligible to become a companion. Who authorizes the use of an inmate companion? =, The psychology department runs that. So -- Do you have any input as the Warden in selecting or training or implementing the inmate companion program? : Clinical Director is a separate position. a. Okay. I apologize for that. That's fine. Thank you for clarifying. Okay. Who in the medical staff, just for my clarification, who in the medical staff is ultimately responsible for removing somebody from suicide watch? a. The psychology department determines to remove somebody from -- So, who in the psychology department? Again, it depends on who's evaluating the inmate. : Okay. So -- : And so we have one, two, three, really we have, (Indiscernible *00:12:26) , uh, four. We have four psychologists on staff. a. You have four psychologists on staff. And any one of those EFTA00064526

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Re Swoon nu ewrPH four can remove somebody? Can remove somebody. Do those four have, who's those four supervisors? ihat authority does she have to overrule them? And I'm not a psychologist - : Sure. : -- to know what procedures they use -- Um-hum. -- or what conversation they have to determine if she’s going to overrule them. I mean, she’s the supervisor, and it’s just like with any, you know, profession you have. Right. If I come up with some reasoning -- _ Un-hun, : In saying hey, I don’t agree — Once a year during our an training, ‘we have suicide prevention training. Okay. uri our annual training. And that’s required for all -- a... employees. What does that training —_ Suicide signs, prevention, coping, just anything pertaining to suicide, sir. Signs to look for. Um-hum. Um -- Is there any specific staff that are more trained, or specifically trained for this area of the prison? Our Special Housing Unit staff get quarterly suicide prevention training. : Okay. Is that part of something the MCC does independent, or is that policy dictated? How does that -- won nn &wnrpHe 34 with your decision, then we debate it and then we ultimately come to a decision. Okay. As to yay or nay. : Okay. So, it’s kind of the same thing. WR: while on suicide watch, you said there’s a 24-hour companion. What does staff do for the inmates while they’re on suicide watch? Well we have a camera, well they're trained to, there’s a phone there. So, let's say something happened where an inmate's trying to do harm to himself. They pick up the phone and they call for assistance, because it goes directly to control center, and we respond accordingly to it. But we also in our control center, while the individual is on suicide watch, there’s a camera there. Okay. To view -- What specific training does staff get as it relates to the suicide ME: That's our policy dictates that they get quarterly training. a. Okay. That’s BOP policy; correct? 36 Yes. Okay. When someone, you said that any staff member at the BOP can place somebody on suicide watch? 1 Yes. : Is there any paperwork or documentation for that that they have to fill out? No. Basically they'll tell that, you know, that hey we need to place him on watch, and we'll place him on watch, and then we'll contact psychology. : Okay. To come in and talk to them. Okay. There’s no referral that says, “I Taced inmate" -- os. No. Psychology will handle it -- : Okay. : -- here and there, in their notes and their documentation that they were EFTA00064527

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Re Swoon nu ewrPH RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr 37 placed on it, when they were placed on it. TCO So, the psychology department is responsible for documenting when people come in in treatment. We, you know, we have what we call a dail Tog in the -- + Um-hum. : -- institution. So, the log would annotate somebody was placed on suicide watch_also. Okay. Is there any specific forms or reports that get filled out when somebody is removed from suicide watch? a. I believe psychology would do those forms and saying in their reports why they were removed and if they’re ready to be released. Do you get those forms? : I don’t get the special medical ones. I just, with the notification that, you know, with the one that email that goes out -- Um-hum. : <= that the individual was released from suicide watch. 39 And, don't quote me on that, but I need to look at the chain -- Okay. : == to see who’s actually on it. But -- But it’s not an institution-wide email? It is kind of sent out institution wide because you have the different departments on it. So, you can say it's institution wide. Not every person in the institution gets that email, though? : No. I don’t -- : Okay. Just not an MCC all type of -- No, it's not an all staff. Okay. Yeah. What is the expectation of the department heads and the supervisors and the Lieutenants and Captains once they get this email? What are they supposed to do with that? I mean, it’s just a notification that the individual's being Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH 38 HE: D0 you get notified, you just said you get notified in the email that somebody’s removed or -- It's an email that the psychology department puts out stating who's on suicide watch, who’s been removed. Is that a daily list? Like they send it once a day, or when someone new comes on and off? How does that -- : It's a daily one. And -- Okay. : And it states who’s on watch, who's, you know, who's got released, and BE: who does that get disseminated to? It's a group. It’s a group email that gets sent to all department heads, Captain, Lieutenants, everybody in the need to know. HR: This is the supervisors within the institution? The Lieutenants, the Captain. i. (Indiscernible *00:17:07). : Okay. 40 removed from suicide watch. So, it depends on where they're going. So, if they're going back to Special Housing Unit, so it’s notification that hey, this person’s been taken off. We have nobody on watch right now. a. Okay. Are they supposed to disseminate that? What are they supposed to do with that information? Are they supposed to tell anybody where they -- : Well, I mean when that individual is released -- : Um-hum. : Wherever they’re going for, they're going to be notified by psychology that they're coming directly -- Okay. -- to you. Okay. So, it was just an accountabilit - : Okay. : -- thing just to know that hey, this person is getting off of watch. a. So, psychology will notify whatever unit they're going back to? EFTA00064528

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RPRRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr 41 HM; iel), it depends where you're going back to. Typically I always go to Special Housing Unit down. : Okay. : And typically when you do, let's say an individual has tried to commit suicide. It's an infraction. So, they usually have an incident report that goes beyond that. So, you have to come up to the Special Housing Unit anyway before so that that infraction can be resolved. Okay. : So, there are a number of aspects of, you know, how. Did you go straight back or if you don’t go back there. And this email that psychology sends out with the list of who's in and who's out of suicide watch -- :_ Who's on watch, yeah? -- is that once a day or twice a day? Is that morning and evening thing? : It depends. Okay. : When you come in in the 43 have. We really don’t have that much space. : Okay. : So, usually that cell, depending on if when they were removed from the cell, if they had a cellmate. So, what happens is that individual’s property is removed, and we could possibly put somebody else in that cell. Okay. > Um -- And again, the suicide watch versus psychological, the psyche eval that, you said that happened right away when someone first comes in the prison; correct? : Well I -- A psyche eval? : == I didn’t say what you said before that. You said -- A psychological eval. : Okay. I want to clarify, earlier you said that people, inmates get that when they first come into the prison; correct? Yeah. Psychologically when they initially have to come and actually Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH RRR RR UW Wh RRR oma MNrMNNrNP wre ow nm wn Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe 42 morning, they could say, you know, this is who's on watch, and then you get another one stating who’s been released off of watch. a. Okay. Is there any policy or standard operation procedure on how (Indiscernible *00:19:21) that email gets sent out? How what? How frequent that email -- No. Okay. But it should be at least _once a day? a. That’s when they send it out. I don’t -- Okay. When somebody is removed from Special Housing -- : == and placed in suicide watch on the second floor -- + Um-hum. -- is anything done to their cell in Special Housing? Is there any precautions or anything that go into that? So, typically let's say you do leave, and it depends on how much space we perform -- Okay. : -- an initial intake screening. a. Is there a level below suicide watch? Well we also have what we call a psyche observation. : And I think the best way to describe that would be it’s a step-down from suicide watch. For example, we might have a mental health inmate that is just mentally, you know, out there. So, we'll put them on psyche observation. They haven’t said they're going to hurt themselves, but they have the potential to do it. Somebody might be on narcotics and acting erratic and you don’t know what they're on. So, they might end up doing it. But it’s a different type of observation because it’s not as stringent as suicide watch. : Okay. MS. : Can you explain what that means? What are the requirements when an EFTA00064529

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR Wh RRR oN MmNMNyr Mrmr Ow mmr Wm & WwW inmate is on psyche eval, or psyche observation? If they’re on psyche observation, we are not necessarily putting them in a smock. You know? You can still have your regular clothing. We're just observing your behavior and that. So, that’s the difference. MS. MM: And does the psychologist stop by every day? a They're treated the same way as somebody that’s on suicide watch. They're evaluated, come up with a plan. They're ready to be released. Keep them on, more along those lines. MS. Well is someone on psyche evaluation, do they have an inmate companion watching them? —. Psyche obs also has an inmate companion. So, anybody in that area has an inmate watching them. —. As the Warden, do you have any input on the determinate if someone's in psychological observation, in suicide watch or observation status? Do you have any input on going off it. So, it doesn’t -- MS. : But do they -- : -- have to necessarily, it’s not my approval. MS. —. Do they typically consult you when that happens? Depending on, you know, if it's the case, you know? Who it is, you might be, like I said, a high profile individual they would say, “Hey, we're taking him off of watch. We're doing this.” So, we'll be following the plan closely, so -- a. When it comes to Epstein, Jeffrey Epstein -- > Um-hum. : -+ he was in the mental health program. Can you just tell us your understanding of his involvement with the psychologist at MCC? Um, let me back-track. Sure. It's not a mental health program. : Um -- Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH RRR RR UW Wh RRR ona MNrMNNrNP wre ow nm wn Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe that? | 1 don't overrule medical decisions. I'm not a doctor Um-hum. : If they come to me and say this is warranted whether it’s medical care or not, I don’t -- Okay. But you're briefed on it? I'm briefed on it. Yes. Is that orally? Orally they'll come and say, well we'll discuss an inmate saying, hey, he has mental issues. I feel that they need to be placed here or there. And I’m going with your evaluation. I’m not going to, and I have good psychologists. So, I trust their judgment. . Can_an inmate be taken off of suicide watch by Dr. or her staff without consulting you? They can. The doctor decides who’s coming off of watch. So, they can make the determination and, you know, they send up to the Associate Warden, the Captain, and it will come to release and if they're 48 Sorry. : Being, I guess, reviewed by psychology -- : Sure. : <= they're following him. He was_on their case. Okay. : And you want to know what I knew about it? : Yes. : Again, he was under their care. They were evaluating him, and, you know, going through their protocol to determine why he was on watch. If he was on suicide watch, can he come off of suicide watch? Was he suicidal? Things like that. At any time, were you aware or notified of him being suicidal or having any suicidal ideations or attempts? Well we had an incident where he was in the cell with [i -- Okay. : == that it might’ve been a suicide attempt and it might not have been a suicide attempt. So, we followed the protocols EFTA00064530

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RR POW OHO BwrPE RRR Bm Wh ee od al oe od Rr SoOW OND mre r Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr RPRRPRPRPR Wwonnu > mmn we wre © mr wn 49 and put him on watch. There was also an internal investigation where he was interviewed and his cellmate was interviewed, and he basically denied (Indiscernible *00:25:35). When you say “he denied”, He said -- -- or Epstein? : No, Epstein stated that, “Hey, I didn’t try to kill myself." And then a said that he was sitting in the cell. He thought he was having a heart attack. So, I forget the words psychology used to determine what their conclusion was as far as the actual act. Okay. MS. : Did you review the incident report for the suicide attempt? a. I reviewed the investigative report that the Lieutenant interviewed both of them, took their statements, and all that because the review process goes from, the Lieutenant initiates it. It goes to the Captain, Associate Warden, and myself. And then I, uh, sign off on it. 51 in there pending investigations. Cellphone introduction. Drug introduction. So, that goes through the investigative process, and then we have, you know, we also have our SAMs (phonetic sp.) inmates that are housed in there. So, we basically discuss and talk about every inmate. MS. QJ: And who attends these meetings? a. Myself, all the Associate Wardens, the Unit Managers, psychology, the Captain, the SHU Lieutenant, the Investigative Lieutenant. So, we just have everyone there that’s involved in the -- MS. And what’s your understanding of whether the SHU Lieutenant or the Captain brief out the duty Officers in the SHU about the outcome of that SHU meeting every week. mean. MS. MM: So, do you have an understanding of whether, because the duty Officers are not present in the SHU meeting; I don’t understand what you rR cow oH DU Sw MNP PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn RR BPOWwWo HO BwrPE RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn 50 MS. BMJ: Did you speak with Dr. HEM after she had consulted with Mr. Epstein when he was placed on suicide watch? —. Um, yes. We have SHU meetings, and we have it once a week, and Epstein was brought up, and she talked about Mr. Epstein. MS. : After the suicide attempt? + Yes. MS. : What day of the week is the SHU thing typically? It's Thursdays. All right and -- Right. -- what happens at the SHU meetings? a. It’s a list where we go around and we talk about every inmate. We have inmates that are in there for infractions, criminal issues, from your office, a high- profile guy might come in. So, we just talk about, okay, what's the status. If we call in a disciplinary citation, that means they’ve been sanctioned and they’re doing time, and then we look at the release date. We have some correct? No Do you have an understanding of how, for instance, if you tell the Lieutenant, I want this done in the SHU, will the Lieutenant then tell his duty Officers after_the meeting? MS. Well, the duty officer is supposed to make rounds throughout the institution when they’re on duty to observe and report if anything is not right. And then if we have incidents, they make notifications, you know, to the region. MS. : To the region? : To, like let’s say we have a fight. Um-hum. MS. : = Us Or maybe like you said, a suicide attempt. So, they have to contact the Regional Duty Officer. That’s their notification. They make the Regional Duty Officer, and then it moves up the chain that way, and then I have to make my notifications, which I make my notifications to the Regional Director. EFTA00064531

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PR POoOwo4OnNewnrpE RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mre r Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR & Wh RPRR SOW MMM Re Mme OS © oo mmr Wm & WwW 53 MS. QJ: Okay. And my question is, does any information, do you have an understanding of whether any information that’s conveyed in these SHU meetings gets briefed down to the line Officers who are responsible for patrolling the SHU? Right. It does? Yeah. The SHU Lieutenant is there, and he’s in the meeting, he or she is in the meeting, and they're talking to their staff on what needs to be done or the status, you know. We're going in and we determine if somebody can be released, then that will be conveyed back that hey, an individual can be released. MS. MJ: So, you were saying that after the July 23rd suicide attempt, there was a Thursday SHU meeting? : Right. MS. : Inwhich Or. J discussed at least her initial observations of Mr. Epstein? —. Well, she would initially discuss it there, but she would also initially, 55 I have to check, did I take a extra Monday. day or not? I’m not sure, but the 29th, I should've, I would've been back. vS, MEM. So, that Thursday meeting which looks like would've been August 1st, you were present at? : Yes. MS. : And what was discussed during the SHU meeting? a. The SHU meeting, we'll discuss every inmate. Every inmate on the list, what's their status? Updates and all that stuff. MS. Okay. And specifically with respect to Epstein, what was discussed? — I don't recall specifically. I know we would’ve talked about him. We would've probably talked about, you know, his psychological status and I got to remember on the first, he was probably back in the Special Housing Unit. So, we were probably, you know, talking about his housing conditions, what’s he doing, and usually the conversation was during the day he was down at the attorney visits, you know? Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WM © loo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRPR RR SOM WPM MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr & WwMe CO woo rm wn 54 whoever, you know, if the Warden is there, initiate it to the AW. So, that would be something immediate that she would say, hey, he’s on watch and this happened. MS. And what happened at that first_SHU meeting after the suicide attempt? The week of July 22nd to the 26th, I was on leave. MS. Okay. : So, I was, you know, I was getting called. So, I don't know the specifics, but I was aware of, you know, I got called that hey, there was an attempt and the protocols were followed. MS. : Okay. : Notifications were made. MS. : Okay. So, the following week which I think is the week of the 29th. ms The 29th or the 30th, yeah. MS. : You were back in the office? HR. That Monday. So, if you have a calendar, I can look at it. MS. I think it’s the 29th -- : So, yeah. So, the 29th is a 56 And then there were certain exams that we had to do that we wanted to get done on him. And then we discussed that. = os Uh, what kind of exams? : Physicals and then, you know, and I don't know if that was before or after his sleep apnea machine that he was, you know, requesting. as Un-hun. : Because typically, you know, you have to go through the fitting and the process, but, you know, we allowed that one to come in. We checked it, security wise, and said it was fine to come in, and we got it. So, I think we might have been discussing that, more along those lines. But we discuss every inmate in there. I don't specifically remember it. I know we would’ve talked about what the issues were pertaining to him. Um, let’s go back to -- Um-hum. -- the suicide attempt. Okay. You said that you were on EFTA00064532

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR Wh RRR oN MmNMNyr Mrmr Ow mmr Wm & WwW 57 leave that week, but you were notified by your Associate Warden? me Associate Warden, yes. : Okay. Were you receiving MS. daily updates? : No t, I mean, they called me during the day the first time that it happened. Hey, this is what happened. He’s on watch. And then the next day, you know, he was still on watch. So, there was really no, I didn’t need that much updates because we knew he was on watch. MS. : Okay. : Um -- MS. : And you notified your Regional Director? HE: I notified my Regional Director. And then while I was on leave, my Regional Director was also in contact with my acting AW. MS. : Did the -- : Acting Warden, I’m sorry. MS. : Did the Regional Director convey any directions to your AW during that time? are we going to house him with? MS. + Um-hum. : You know, coming to that decision and then that would give her more time to work with him if she needed. MS. MM; «Okay. Did you have a discussion with Dr. = about whether she felt he was still suicidal? : Again, if the psychologist tells me that he’s ready and he goes, I don’t question medical judgment. I trust her judgement. If she says he’s not suicidal and he’s ready to go back, then we trust her judgment. MS. And she did -- Because she -- -- tell you that? She said he was ready to go back. He wasn’t suicidal and that he was ready to go back. MS. MM: Did you review any of her reports or the psychologist’s reports -- : I don’t -- MS : -- during the time he was on the second floor? Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH RRR RR UW Wh RRR ona MNrMNNrNP wre ow nm wn Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe 58 I believe just the basics, you know. Keep him updated what's going on because at the time he was under psychology’s care. = os Um-hum. : So, once they’re in that, there’s really not that much input to go on because they're on watch. MS. And then Epstein was downgraded from suicide watch to psyche observation. :_ Psyche observation. MS. While he was still on the second floor? + Yes. Were you notified of that Yes, that he was on psyche | MS. : Okay. And did you discuss that with Dr. at all? : Yeah. We talked about it. Again, it was, you know, him going back up to the Special Housing Unit. Although he wasn’t suicidal, it was just a matter of, okay, who MN: No. I don’t review any medical files. MS. SHU on the 30th 60 And he came back to the is that right? Uh, yes. Okay. Um-hum. MS. : And what discussions did you have, let's start with Dr. , about the conditions of his confinement in the SHU? She just said to get him in, you know, we're going to put him, get him a cellmate because typically every inmate that, you know, is on suicide or whatever, we say, okay, we’re going to give him a cellmate. So, that was when we went through the process of figuring out, okay, who could we possibly put him in with? Um, the pickings were slim. So, I came up with , and no wait, no. —— he had been put down there originally because of —, MS. : Um-hum. : So, what happened was, we had to come up with some more inmates. So, I came up with three. It was, I believe, JM, EFTA00064533

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RPRRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr 61 HBMMB,, and who was the other one? We had another sex offender in there that we were going to put him in there, and he said, “If he comes in here, it’s going to be a problem.” So, we didn’t put him in there. So, we ended up putting IM in there. MS. + Um-hum, HMM, an older gentleman. He couldn't be in the institution because it was cooperating, so we figured that was a good fit, and then I sent an email of the three to the Director's Chief of Staff I sent an email to. = And what is his name? : RR (phonetic sp.). MS. I: Okay. him, here are the three -- Here are the three -- -- possible -- -- possible ones. : Okay. git Did i tell i -- 63 | -- and we can’t put them in there because it becomes a life safety issue. MS. BE: How long after someone is taken off suicide watch would you typically direct that they have a cellmate? a. It would depend on the situation, because you could be getting released to a unit where you would automatically have a cellmate going through, or you know, direction could put out that, hey, make sure the individual has a cellmate. So, there's no really timeframe on when you would decide that. Just to clarify, as it relates to, I know you guys just discussed this, but just making sure I’m following you guys correctly. As it relates to the first suicide attempt back on July 23rd, Mr. Epstein. Right. You were on leave. Yeah, the 22nd. You were notified via telephone of this, and you notified the Regional Director. Is that correct? Yeah, of the, yeah, I did And so you emailed Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH RRR RR UW Wh RRR oma MNrMNNrNP wre ow nm wn Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe 62 MS. J: Did you tell Mr. [a that he needed to have a cellmate? Yes. That’s what the discussion was, for a cellmate. So, I sent that up, spoke with my Regional Director. I believe he received it too, and came to the conclusion would probably be the best fit for him. So, we put him in the cell with MS. MM: Is there a policy about whether an inmate needs to have a cellmate after they've been taken off of suicide watch? a. There's no policy, but it’s sound correctional judgment. I mean even if an individual is not on suicide watch, and you're in the Special Housing Unit, you typically want somebody in there with them. MS. : Um-hum. Because, I mean, you never know what could happen. So, just for somebody to talk to, you know, pass the time. So, you typically put somebody in there unless again we're in a situation where they're just totally separated from somebody -- MS. BE: Un-hun. call him to tell him. You called the Regional Director? Yes. -- while on leave to notify him? Did you notify anybody else of the 23rd incident? No, I called my boss, and -- Okay. Yeah. And that is, via the policy and your responsibilities, as a BOP policy and your responsibility as a Warden, is there anybody else that you were supposed to notify? No. Okay. No. And your staff was notified because they were working in the institution; correct? Which staff? Your Assistant Warden, who MM: Yeah. She was the Acting EFTA00064534

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won Du wr PE Warden, so she -- Acting Warden. Yeah. Who was that? At the time, I believe it (phonetic sp.). Yeah, she was Active Warden. : Okay. Do you happen to know if she notified anybody? She would've notified the Region also. + Okay. : And she would’ve notified the region, but she was just calling me -- : == just to let me know like, hey, this is what's going on. Okay. And back when, a few days later when Epstein was removed from suicide watch to psyche observation -- + Um-hum. -- were you notified of that change? , a. That he was being moved? : Just downgraded from 67 MS. QJ: And that’s the Regional Director? That's the Regional Director. MS. And what’s his name? And then a few days later when he was removed from observation and placed back in Special Housing Unit, you were notified of that? Were you notified of that? : Oh, yes. : Did you notify anybody of that? HE: inen he was removed and placed back in the -- : Yes. : == Special Housing? Yeah, I let my supervisor know that that was the plan. : He was moving him, because remember we had to get him -- Um-hum. -- a roommate. Right. So, that was the whole won nn &wnrpHe 66 suicide watch to psychological observation. : Yes. Did you notify anybody of that? Hn, I might've called my boss to let him know that, hey, he’s been downgraded off of suicide watch. : Okay. : Yeah. You don’t recall calling? No, I don’t. : Okay. But I probably would’ve specifical notified him. Okay. Did you recall notifying anybody specifically about that downgrade? : What, as far as him? : Yep. : No, I don’t recall, but it would’ve probably been my boss telling me -- : Okay. : -- hey, we moved him from suicide watch down to -- 68 process, notifying, hey, he’s coming off watch. He’s going to the Special Housing Unit. Pal tn-hun, : And he’s going to get a roommate. Other than your Regional Director, did you notify anybody else? That he was coming off -- : Yes. -- or talk about it? : Yep. Yeah. Okay. And said that, you know, what the expectation was that, you know, he’s going to have a cellmate. So, you told, during that meeting, do you recall when that meeting was? — I don’t recall when the meeting was, but I just told them, hey, he needs to have a cellmate. This is his cellmate. Cellmate at all times. And, you know, put it out to your -- | Okay. Um -- MS. : Put it out to your people? My exec staff. EFTA00064535

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RPRRPRRR SO ew MN mre Swo RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR Wh RRR oN MmNMNyr Mrmr Ow mmr Wm & WwW 69 HE; the departments and your areas of responsibility on that’s how he was going to be housed. MS. And who did you specifically tell that to? a. My Associate Wardens were in there, whoever was acting, the Captain because that specifically falls under his area. MS. + Um-hum, : The Special Housing Unit. I told him specifically he needs to be housed alone. I informed his Lieutenant, you know, and his offices and basically on each shift, just be mindful, you know, of making rounds and just not for him, just for everybody. MS. And what’s the Captain's name? _ a a. : Okay. Um-hum. MS. Did you tell Captain HEM this before Epstein was moved back to the SHU? | Yeah. vie had a meeting, and I got together and I said, hey, this was going when Epstein went back to the SHU -- Um-hum. -- and then his suicide? I don't recall the number of times, but it was just a conversation constantly reminding that let's be vigilant on just not him, but everybody in the Special Housing Unit. MS. GM: «Could you estimate daily? Once? Twice? I wouldn't say daily. I would say, I don’t have an actual number. I don’t want to say an actual number, but you know, if I did encounter, or I made rounds in the unit, I would, you know, tell staff up there, you know, be vigilant with your protocol. So, I don't know the specific amount of time. I make my rounds once a week at a minimum, but, you know, sometimes it’s more Sometimes it’s less. When it comes to the ability, so you specifically go back to, what you said earlier about . Right. Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH RRR RR UW Wh RRR ona MNrMNNrNP wre ow nm wn Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe 70 to be the plan that | was going to be moved in with him. He was going to have a cellmate, and that was the protocol we were going to follow. MS. I: Did GY confirm that he would tell his Lieutenants, or his -- He confirmed. I followed up and asked him, did you put it out to the Lieutenants and staff working, and he told me yes. MS. BMJ: And was that before Epstein, his confirmation, did that come before Epstein was moved back to the SHU, or around the first day he was in the SHU? a. No before. I had the conversation with him, and then I followed up afterwards and said, “Hey, did you disseminate the information?” And he said, “Everything was disseminated.” But it wasn’t just a one-day thing. It was a constant, I told him, a constant follow up, you know? Make sure that, you know, these protocols are being followed. MS. How many times do you recall telling Captain that, between HE: You came up with three possible -- 72 :_ Right. : == roommates for him, and with that list, did you brief that up the chain for approval, or where did that go that list? : Isent it to, I made my boss aware of it. : Okay. : And then I sent it to the Chief of Staff in the Director’s office. So, I don't know what conversations -- Sure. -- took place above that. : Okay. : I just know about -- : You briefed it up the chain. You briefed your suggestions up the chain. : I went up the chain. : And there was, were there any objections to that list? a. I gave the three possibles - Um -- EFTA00064536

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Re Swoon nu ewrPH 73 Um-hum. : -- but you know, one I had was a 26-year-old drug dealer I know he, and he was still in there, and I was like although he was separated, I just didn’t -- + Um-hum. : -- feel that he could, you know, he might, somebody could convince him to do something. So, he didn’t, I didn’t feel comfortable with him, and I forget the other one. And I think the other one might've been somebody that was going to be releasing soon. Okay. So, I took in the factors Um-hum. : == and second when he checked himself in and feeling that he was going to be long-term. 0) That, so you made special care and consideration in picking Epstein's roommate, cellmate? :_ Based on the -- : Yep. : == options I had -- ae: 75 When was he released from the facility? : He was released, I believe, on Friday. : Okay. Was he transferred out? Was he released from custody? Under what conditions, do you know? : From what I understand, it was with all belongings. So, I don’t -- : Okay. : -- who took him. You can’t, I mean, even if you look on Sentry, you don’t know where he was -- + Um-hum. : -- but when we looked at him originally, it still showed that he was going to court. : Okay. : So, that he was going to be long-term. Now it’s just showing there's no DST. So, I don't know where _ is. Okay. But he’s not in MCC? iz. No, he’s not in MCC. : Okay. Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH 74 Yep. : -- which wasn’t too many. I mean, he had to have a cellmate, and the options weren't good. a. Are staff in the Special Housing Unit allowed to assign cellmates arbitrarily or on their own without consulting a Captain, Lieutenant, or yourself (Indiscernible *00:46:26). Yeah, the offices on their own can, you know, if they have to move somebody around can move somebody around based on they know who can be housed with who. If somebody’s separation, they know who's separated from an individual. So, they can do that. : Imean, they’re capable of doing that. Okay. a little bit. Right. He’s no longer in MCC; As it relates, talk about correct? Right. : Prior to, you had, you were very active in making sure that Epstein had an appropriate cellmate? : Right. : What were you, leading up to the last week Friday, what were you aware of , any court proceedings or any issues or concerns about him leaving the MCC? : I was off on Friday. : Okay. : So, I didn’t know anything about his court proceedings -- : Okay. : == or whatever. this from after the fact. : Okay. When it comes to , the staff in the Special Housing Unit, how do they get notified of court dates, of the probability of someone being released from the facility? How does that process work? a. They get a call from receiving, it's called receiving and discharge. : Okay. : Where the inmates are I just know EFTA00064537

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Re Swoon nu ewrPH RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RR wr 77 processed in and processed out. So, they get notification that hey, such and such is leaving, and send him down. a. Okay. Does the MCC usually, or sometimes, what’s the, how often or frequently does the MCC get advanced notice of an inmate leaving? —. It depends. If the inmate's designated -- + Um-hum. : -- then we know in advance he’s designated. But usually the Marshalls will come and say, whoever is picking him up, “Hey, we're taking such and such.” We might get a list ahead of time if somebody's going to maybe one of the county facilities or some they just come and say, “Hey, we need this guy.” Okay. Ultimately Friday, is discharged. Um-hum. Leaving Epstein, actually let's talk about without a cellmate. Was there a plan in place if that were to happen? =. We'd review it and say, okay, who can he be with? But he wouldn’t have and they were going through life-saving measures. And who contacted you? My Associate Warden, mL : Yes. Uh -- Was she at the scene? No, she wasn't. The Lieutenant had called the Captain. The Captain called her, and then she called me. MS. And is it Lieutenant I, is that_it? Lieutenant [MM was the Operations Lieutenant. Would you mind, in that conversation, would you mind just telling us about_that_conversation? She told me Epstein, they found him in his cell. They had a defibrillator on him and that they were working on him. Okay. : And when she told me that, I Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH 78 been alone. Was there anybody in the Special Housing Unit that was already vetted to room with, or cell with Epstein? No. Because again, didn't leaving -- Okay. -- like that. But we would've gotten somebody in there temporarily. When did you first become leaving the MCC? After the death of Mr. anticipate aware of Epstein. Okay. : Um, when I came, you know, that was like my first question was like, where is his cellmate? : Okay. :_ I was told he was gone. When were you first notified of the death of Epstein? I got a call about 6:50 and a: told me that, hey -- : == that he attempted suicide 80 was like, okay. Where are they at? Is EMS coming in? She said she didn’t have that much information because the Lieutenant was down with Epstein performing life-saving measures. So, that’s when I came in. :_ When did you start asking questions about ? On the phone or when you arrived at the facility? So, when I got there, I was like, where is the cellmate. Um-hum. : I asked the Lieutenant, like where is his cellmate, and Lieutenant said, “I asked the same question when I went down and, you know, started." He asked the officer “Where's his cellmate?” And, you know, just couldn't, you know, he was disoriented and told me he had said that. So, that’s when we started, you know, started the process of where's Just for timeline purposes, about what time did you arrive? : I got there about 7:30. Okay. Who within the Special Housing Unit would've had the ability EFTA00064538

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Re Swoon nu ewrPH 81 or who within the Special Housing Unit would’ve had the ability or the authority to back-fil] * spot_as Epstein’s cellmate? Well what would’ve happened, which was instructed to them, was -- Okay. : -+ they would’ve told the Lieutenant or Captain, hey, , I mean Epstein needs a cellmate. And then we would've started the process of getting him a cellmate. Because when, and this was Epstein’s routine. He got up early in the morning at 8, and he didn’t come back to his cell until about 7:30 at night from his attorney visits. left in the morning. So, he doesn’t come back to his cell until in the evening, which on that particular day, he got back about, from what I understand, around 6:45. : Okay. : Yeah. : You said that they were instructed to notify that Epstein needed a cel lmate? So, the Captain, as I told you before -- was dismissed? : The Officers should’ve called the Lieutenant -- Which Officers? The ones working the unit? The Special Housing Unit? The Special Housing Unit that Officers. Okay. | og Because they know that he packed up. They -- : So, once he gets packed up, they go -- : They should've known, hey, let me notify and move it up the chain, Epstein doesn’t have a cellmate. How does MMM’ belongings get packed up? who does that? a. When the staff in SHU pack up his stuff. Okay. So, the staff in SHU would -- They’l] come to the door -- Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH Um-hum. -- when I told them about the expectations. : Yep. : All that was Epstein needs a cellmate. : Yep. : And he’s to be having a cellmate at all times. If he doesn’t, then they need to notify you and then you can push it up. specifically that. So, you told the Captain - I told the Captain : Okay. And the Captain was to tell his, below him. He conveyed it to the Lieutenant, to the Officers, and disseminated it out. Okay. So, he should've been notified. How should the notification have worked? : When he -- -- when IE, realized 84 | og Um-hum. : -- and if they say WAB, it’s with all belongings. : Okay. : So, they more than likely just took his stuff -- Um-hum. : -- and then whatever he had in his cell, and if he had something in the property room, they might've gone to get it. Or if they didn’t, then we would somewhere down the line ship it to wherever his destination is. : Is the staff that’s packing up " belongings different than the Correctional Officers? HE: GE property would've been stored up in our Special Housing Unit. : Right. : And then it would’ve been taken by our Special Housing Unit staff to our receiving and discharge center. : Is that staff, when you say “staff”, is that a different responsibility than being a Correctional Officer? EFTA00064539

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Re Swoon nu ewrPH 85 HM; iel) we're all, we're all correctional workers -- Okay. : -- but their department is, the receiving and discharge -- Um-hum. -- of inmates. Okay. So, that’s where you process you know, in -- : Got you. : == or process out. So, they would take the stuff down to them. They'd process in and process out. a. Okay. So, these are people that are different, have different responsibilities than, okay. Right. I got it. The Special House -- Thank you for -- MS. : But the Officers in the SHU would have been responsible for packing up * belongings? aa Right. was departed the institution. : Okay. And that would be in the system somewhere? : Uh, yeah. They would be receipts, but our receiving and discharge would have that. + Okay. : And it will also show in Sentry, which we use to track on when he was keyed out. They would've taken 87 Okay. + Um-hum. The Officers that were working in the Special Housing Unit would've observed * belongings leaving. They were instructed via the Captain through your orders that if Epstein was to have a cellmate at all times. : At all times. : And that if that wasn’t, you know, supposed to be briefed up to the Captain and then ultimately to you. Is that correct? So, just to recap. Right. The Lieutenant, if the SHU Lieutenant was working, the SHU won nn &wnrpHe 86 all of his belongings. Now I don't know if he has some property still in the property room. But whatever was in his cell, they would’ve gathered and taken down. So, the Officers that are in the Special Housing Unit either would have actively participated or observed belongings being packed up and leaving? : Right, and taken. And I don't know where [RE went. : Sure. : I don't know if he went to court. again Um-hum. I don't know -- Right. -- but the terminology with all belongings. : Sure. : So, he was being -- : Is there any documentation or reports about when ’ belongings would have been collected from Special Housing Unit? I wouldn’t say belongings, but there would be something showing that he Lieutenant happened to be off that day. : Um-hum. : And then it goes up the chain to notify somebody that he doesn’t have a cellmate. : Okay. : So, the SHU Lieutenant was He was off that day of -- And which SHU was that? Huh? It was the Lieutenant : Uh, Lieutenant J. MS. : So, who was the Acting Supervisor? We didn’t, well the Operations, if we don’t have a SHU Lieutenant on duty, the Operations Lieutenant is the Lieutenant that would come up, make rounds, and (Indiscernible *00:57:40). MS. Okay. And who was that on Friday? . a. I don’t recall. I have to look at the roster. EFTA00064540

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won Du wr PE 89 Okay. Let’s talk a little bit about staffing that day. : Okay. > Um -- : Well, can I -- : Yes. -- say one thing? Of course. I sent a memorandum to, did he give it to you? J? : Well, I got a memorandum this morning -- a This morning, yes. : About the offices saying that they knew that he left and when he left he told the evening watch guy that Epstein needed a cellmate. MS. ME: Do you know why that’s dated today? a. Because when I came in this morning, one of my Lieutenants came in and I asked him, I said, “Hey, have you heard anything about what went on on Friday?” And that’s when he told me he had talked to the And Was suggested, was told by to write this memo? Yes. Okay. Lieutenant And the memo, just MS. a: I don’t think you need to (Indiscernible 0: 59:26). : Okay, yep. MS. : Yeah. : == thanks. Just -- Just making sure we're on -- MS. : I appreciate that, yeah. Overall staffing at MCC, if we can just go down that road for right now. Where, are you guys at full staff? Where are you in terms of staffing levels? We're understaffed. Okay. So, we're starting the hiring process right now, but we do have to, you know, there’s some posts that we can’t fill. But -- Where are you in terms of won nn &wnrpHe Officer, and the Officer told him he had notified them as to that, you know, Epstein needed a Bunkie. Okay. And who -- Um -- -- asked the Officer to put that in writing? : Uh, Lieutenant (i. had told him to put it in writing. a. Just for, uh, (Indiscernible *00:58:59) if I may just -- MS. : Yeah. -- read it so we're on the same page, here. Um-hum. : So, we have a memo dated August 12, 2019 to the Warden from -- : phonetic sp.) I -- : Yeah. Um-hum. And the subject is, Past Information from Special Housing Units. Um-hum. 92 staffing? Like what percentage are you, would you say? : I believe we're in our low 80s, high 70s. I'd have to look at the staffing or whatever. : But somewhere around 80%. : Right, but it doesn’t only, that’s not the only issue. The only issue -- Sure. : -- is like we, let's say we're staffed to 80%, we've got about 30 people that we can’t use. Either they're on Workman's Comp. They’re on AWOL status. You name it, we have it. But the problem is, it takes a while to go through that process to remove an employee. So, we can’t just hire when you have a bunch of people like that on you. So, that’s where we're at. Okay. So, how do you as a Warden and as an institution compensate for being 20% understaffed? Well, I mean everyone has to chip in. I mean, we're not like the state where you have your Correctional workers and EFTA00064541

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR Wh RRR oN MmNMNyr Mrmr Ow mmr Wm & WwW 93 you have the contractor workers. Everyone, despite the fact that you might have a different job title, you know how to perform the functions of a Correctional Officer. You have to qualify with weapons every year. You take training on working the housing units, and the majority of them weren't hired off the street as into their positions. There might be a few. But the majority were Correctional Officers and then promoted into the different positions. So, we have annual refresher training every year where we train and move on like that. But that’s just not, it’s not their primary discipline, being a Correctional Officer. You said all staff are trained as Corrections Officers? The terminology is you're Correctional workers. Okay. : So, you know how to perform the functions of a Correctional Officer. Okay. : Carry firearms. You can do foreman. What is a material handler? They work in the warehouse. So, in the warehouse, it has several functions. You either work in the commissary which the inmates shop for food. He can work in the laundry where you do that, or you work in the warehouse where you're processing -- + Um-hum. : -- in stuff. What's the other one? We also have an outside warehouse where we take deliveries. So, that’s our, and it's under our trust fund department. Okay. And the night of a: August 9th, August 10th -- : Right. : == do you happen to know if Mr. Thompson was working as a Correctional Officer in that primary responsibility? He was one of the Officers in the Special Housing Unit. a. Okay. Do you know how often he works as a Correction, his responsibility as an Officer? Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH RRR RR UW Wh RRR ona MNrMNNrNP wre ow rm wn Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe 94 escorted trips. You could work the housing unit. The only ones who probably are exempt from that are doctors and attorneys and psychologists, the professionals. But everyone else, ME; nd where do the Correctional workers receive this training? Well initially you go to Glencoe. Okay. : Everyone goes to Glencoe for training. a tn-hun, : And then specialized training, we have annual refresher training every year where we re-qualify and go over certain correctional topics. Okay. Let me ask you about_some_s ecific people. + Okay. : If you happen to know if they, what their primary duties are. + Okay. Michael Thomas? : He's a material handler MN: hat they do is since he works in that department, we might, if we need him during the daytime, assign him over to the department. But he does overtime. He was working overtime then. So, we have a lot of overtime. So, individuals in other departments work the overtime. 96 Is that something they can do voluntarily, or are they told to do that? How does that work? We have a volunteer list for the individuals that don’t work in the department. : Okay. : If you're a Correctional Officer, we have what’s called a mandation list. So, if we call around and I say, “Hey, we need somebody to work this”, and everyone turns it down and says, “No, I don’t want to work it”, then we go to the mandation list. : Okay. : Which is you’re next up to be mandated to work a post. Okay. Um -- MS. : Was he mandated that EFTA00064542

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night? W|I believe he wasn’t. He wouldn't be mandated because he works as a material handler foreman. Got it. So, he signed up for it. Okay. Yeah. So, just to clarify, the Correctional Officers or only the Officers are on the mandated list? : Right. The rest of Correctional workers have the opportunity to volunteer for overtime? Right. You volunteer for overtime. Okay. : Or during the daytime, I can say, “Look I need to fill these posts. I need you to come from your department to work over in Correctional services.” Okay. Toba Noel (phonetic sp.). Uh, is a Correctional 99 e's an He's an Officer? : Yeah. Officer. : He's an Officer. . 1? : He's an Officer. (phonetic sp.)? :_ She is the psychologist. Okay. So, the only one, the only one, Michael Thomas, is the only one who's primary responsibility is not an Officer? :_ And Or. Dt Doctor, yep. Okay, great. MS. : Are you notified when a Corrections Officer is mandated to work overtime? Who makes that decision? The Lieutenant on shift handles that. What are the rules, or any policies in terms of overtime? Is there a limit? Is there, how does the overtime work? Is there a cap in terms of hours a week? won nn &wnrpHe Officer. She's a Corrections Officer? : Corrections Officer. Okay. Do you happen to know if she was working overtime or her regular shift that day? i I’m not sure. I think it might've been (Indiscernible *01:04:52). I’m not sure. I think her regular, I’m not sure. Okay. : Her regular shift was watch, and then she did it. So -- Okay. Does she typically work in evenin MS. the SHU? Uh, yes. She’s been (Indiscernible *01:05:01). MS. Okay. : And I don't know if that was her assigned quarterly post, but I do believe it is. Captain JP : He's the Captain. : el : It's voluntary. Okay. : And then it’s, like you rison business is 24 hours. Um-hum. : We don't have the luxury to turn around and say we can't fill a post. Now I might have a post that might require, you know, X amount of people, but I have to staff it at a minimum where we're safe coming and going. said, the Um-hum. : So, there's really no set amount. I mean, depending, you know, I’ve been here, when I first got here where our staffing was really bad where people were doing four a week. When you say -- + You know? -- “four a week", what is : Four overtimes a week. Now is, when you say, what is an overtime? Is that like another 8-hour shift? EFTA00064543

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won Du wr PE : Another 8-hour shift. : Okay. So, you -- : So, it depends on, you know, the number of people we have, those volunteering. So, right now we're in the hiring process where we are getting, you know, —— to fill_in these positions. So, an overtime shift is _ —_— additional hours? Eight additional hours. Okay. Is there any -- Go ahead. -- is there any limit on how many 16-hour lays a week an employee can work? You just can’t exceed the en of 16 hours in a day. Could you explain that for Okay. You work eight hours. Right. ‘You can only work 16 hours that day. : You can’t work 24 hours. 103 : Yeah. : -- for X, Y and Z. don't know the specifics -- Okay. -- on why somebody would. You know I had a previous job where my supervisor wouldn’t let us work 21 days in a row. We had to take that 22nd day off. So, I Right. : Do you guys have anything unofficial like that that -- Well they have their two days off. Okay. So, you get two days off. So -- Is that -- -- and that -- Is it required that they take those two days? Yeah. You take your two days. What you choose to do with those two days is your business. But we don’t, like if someone, it has to be an emergency. Let’s say won nn &wnrpHe 102 You can’t, you’re not like a fireman where, you know, you're on duty 24 hours in. : Okay. : SO, there’s a limit on the daily. : Okay. :_ That you can do. : But there's no limit on how many days in a row you can work those 16 hours? No. If somebody wants to, they could. Do you have any unofficial ae: or any guidance on that front? — No, not really, because I mean you have some people that sign up for overtime. Got you. You know? They say -- Um-hum. -- hey, they might, I don't know people’s financial situations. : Right. : But they might say, hey, you know, I need to get some extra money -- 104 it’s your Friday. You won't get mandated on a Friday because Federal Law states you have to have X amount of hours off during the week. : Okay. In conjunction to days off. So, Coaiscerible *01:08:57). So, the most 16-hour days an employee can work is five, so they have two days off? Well not necessarily, because you could say hey I want to work on my days off. HN: okay. So, you can come in on your days off then? a. On your days off. voluntary. Okay. I can’t just turn around -- Sure. -- and say you have to stay That's but if you want -- Okay. Um -- Okay. Anything on the overtime? EFTA00064544

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RRR UW & Wh RR SD Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww RR POW oOHN OM BwrP RRR Wh RPRR SOW MMM Re Mme OS © oo mmr Wm & WwW 105 No. Okay. Talk a little bit about the cameras in the facility. : Okay. What is your understanding on the general reliability of them? ez. They're not good. We were just funded to get new cameras installed but, you know, when you’re installing the cameras, there’s a lot you have to do. The building is built in 1975. It’s not like a new building, and we've got to go through cinderblock. There’s a lot of things that, you know, are in that block. Asbestos. So, we have to do the wiring. SO, the system is outdated. Um -- a: When you say they’re not, are they not reliable? Is it poor quality in recording? What's the -- a. It's the recording, but what do they call that, the DVRs? + Okay. : The ones that hold the recordings, they're breaking down. So, sometimes we have where they're not recording. We have to get it fixed, you know, more along 107 the quality. Like you go to some places and some agencies where you have that bird vision type camera. That's not what we have. Okay. : Imean, it’s, you can see things, we can do some identifying, but they’re not, you know, and they're only in certain locations. MS. J: And again, the chain of notification is the staff, the Corrections Officers or Corrections worker notifies the Shift Lieutenant? As far as with the cameras? Yes. If they're -- It depends on -- -- not operating. -- who's using the cameras and reviewing the cameras. MS. : Okay. : You know, usually our investigative department’s doing it, and they do the check, and if they come in and check and check the cameras and say, stuff’s not recording, then they notify the Comp Shop or the facilities manager and say, hey, we have a Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH PRR RP RRR NSO Se WwN MMrmNmMNrMrnNrr & WME OC woo rm wn rR ee oe RPRRR Un Wh RR SD MMmMNMmNrMNrRrRr &—wWwrNre © © oo rm wn 106 those lines. How were you aware, how are you as the Warden made aware of cameras not working appropriately or any issues with the recording devices? a. The department head would bring it up to me, or the Associate Warden would tell me, you know, we were informed that the cameras aren't working. What is the normal procedure when the cameras go down? So, if the cameras go down, then the contact has to look and determine what’s the problem with the cameras. : Okay. How long would you say that the cameras have been unreliable? What do you mean by “unreliable?” I'm sorry, how long would you say the cameras have been not working? a. They work, but periodically they go down. : Okay. : That's what I meant by it, but they do record. You can, you know, it’s 108 problem. The cameras are not recording. MS. MM: So, does SIS have a room where they can see the cameras in the facility? a. We have a, the camera room is in our communications room behind that area. MS. Okay. So, if a camera, if the camera in the SHU was not working -- + Um-hum. MS. : == someone in that camera room would be able to see that there's no feed from that particular camera? : It's not the feed, it’s the recording. You can have, you always have the life feed that you can see what's going on. it's the recording of it. MS. : Um-hum. : And the recordings typically, and don’t quote me on it, are ona two-week or less timeline. So, what it is is, if it gets to that two-week period, the memory gets full, then it starts re-recording over again. So, that’s how most camera systems work. MS. MM: But if for instance a camera in the SHU was down -- EFTA00064545

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Re Swoon nu ewrPH 109 : Right. MS : == someone in that camera room would see that the camera was down. Or the SIS would check and say, determine hey the recordings are not down or yeah, you're right, or even the screen. MS. + Um-hum, : If we didn’t have a visual screen to say, hey, there's problems with the camera. MS. BMJ: And did that happen with the SHU camera? Was anyone notified that it wasn’t working? a. Well, and this is what I was told after the fact, the SIS Lieutenant I believe conveyed that to the Communication Officer that there was a problem with the cameras. "S. [: 1s that (phonetic sp.)? And it's a she? Yes, she. When did she know about iil HE: was told on Saturday. yeah. | Okay. You were told after After -- -- the fact. -- the fact I was told. Okay. That the cameras weren't working. I’m sorry, just who notified you of this? a. ES «010 ve. : Lieutenant, okay. Talking about, let's talk about phone calls in the SHU. > Um-hum. : What are the regulations or policies about giving inmates unreported phone calls? During the intake screening, you can come in and in certain SHU situations, an inmate will get an unmonitored call if they don't have their telephone account set up. okay. : So, they're afforded that won nn &wnrpHe 110 I believe she told me she told him on Thursday that she made a notification for it. Okay. + Um -- . And that would be an oral notification? : I'm not sure. MS. : Okay. : But she did say she notified him. S MS. Okay. Are you made aware of those notifications as well that the cameras are down and not working? :_ It would depend. : Okay. : You know, on how bad it was. If it was something that you can run out and fix immediately, you know, it would say, hey, you know, we can fix it. But if it was something that was going to be for a while, I would have to be notified. And were you notified of this? 112 opportunity. : How does the inmate get a telephone account set up? Typically he has to go out of SHU into a housing unit and go through the voice recognition process in order to get set up for it. You can't do it in the Special Housing Unit. : And we said earlier that Mr. Epstein was never left, was always in Special Housing Unit. : Was always in the Special Housing Unit. : Did he have an opportunity to get_a telephone account set up? : The problem with Mr. Epstein was he was in the attorney room all day. : Okay. : From beginning to end, and that’s something that you do during the daytime because our communications people are there. So, we did, and then again, he had to be in an assigned unit to get that. It’s just to have it set up. : Okay. Was Mr. Epstein EFTA00064546

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won Du wr PE allowed phone calls? a. Was he what? : Was Mr. Epstein allowed phone calls? Yeah. His initial one, he didn’t get his initial one, so we had to give him a_call, his initial call when he came in. + Okay. : Then while you're in the Special Housing Unit, you're entitled to one call every 30 days. : Okay. : So, he was entitled to a 30- day phone call. And are those normally monitored, recorded? How do those? HERMES; Typically in his case, that he didn’t have his monitor set up, the unit manager stood there and listened to the call. : Okay. Um -- MS. : And would that be the Lieutenant? No. It was the Unit Manager. MS. And who would that be? 115 HE: ie didn’t, because again, he wasn’t set _up. : Okay. Are you aware of how many phone calls Mr. Epstein’s made while in the Special Housing Unit? : I'm not sure. I’m not aware how many made. But I don’t, I know he made that one -- Um-hum. | og -- that day and I’m aware of the initial one, but I don’t believe he made that many, because I do believe I saw a correspondence that his attorney made to our attorney about him getting a phone call. : Okay. : That he hadn't gotten a phone call. So, there’s some correspondence on that. HR: Okay. You got any else on the -- MS. : No. : Okay. : Let's go over real quick (Indiscernible *01:18:13). We covered this a little won nn &wnrpHe 114 That was Mr. [J a. Okay. So -- So, Mr. J should have been listening to that phone call? Right, and from what I understand, he was listening. GENE: Okay. Are those phone calls _recorded anywhere to ensure just to -- No, they're not recorded, but we can trace the phone line to get the phone number. Okay. : To determine where the call was made. Okay. And in tracing of that to get the phone number, is the length of the call _-- Yes. -- noted as well? Yes. Okay. But in terms of putting that into a system or a monitoring, there’s not a database for that? 116 earlier. I just wanted to go over it again. When were you first notified of Mr. Epstein’s suicide, or medical, or situation? About 6:45 -- Okay. -- 6:50. Who did you notify? I immediately called my boss Okay. : -- to let him know and then tell him that I was on my way to the institution. Did you notify anybody else? : Who, me? Yes. : No. I just, I let him know, dressed, get to the institution. a. Okay. When you arrived at the institution, did you speak to any staff there? get When I got there, I saw obviously the Lieutenant. Um -- hich - EFTA00064547

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RR POW OHO BwrPE PRR RRR COND mw MN Mmmenmyr mer OoOw mre r Wn & Ww PR POwWo4ON ewnrP RPRRPR UW Wh RR sD ee ol med & WwrMmr © wl oo nm wn 117 = Lieutenant 2 : Uh, Lieutenant when he came in and my first, you know, any time you have a suicide attempt, you want to make sure your staff are all right and how they're doing. So, I went to, you know, to check on him to kind of get a debrief on what was going on. He kind of debriefed me on the situation. Um -- What did Lieutenant [i tell you? So, I asked him, so I basically told him what happened, and he said, he talked to Officer Noel and she said we didn’t do the 3 o'clock count or the 5 o’clock count. And then he said he talked to Noel, Officer Noel, and she said, no he talked to Officer Thomas and that Officer Thomas said, “I messed up. We messed up." Something about it’s not her fault. But he said he was just talking way off the line. Let me back-track a little. I did make one more call, because I couldn’t get in contact with Lieutenant [. I called up to the Special Housing Unit. 119 said, try to find him if he’s outside. So, they went outside and they said, you know, he was gone. I didn’t see Ms. Noel, but I told them to get a memorandum from her on what happened. They told me said she wasn’t feeling well and she had to talk to her Union rep. So, and I said, “You know what, let them go. We'll get back with them or somebody will get back with them.” And they left. And we just started the process of collecting and preserving. MS. Have Noel or Thomas been in to.work since then? No. Noel, I sent some support staff on Sunday to go talk to them. Today, the mother of Thomas’ child, she works at the institution but they’re not together, said, “Hey, he was with her all weekend but she can’t get in contact with him.” I sent her and a Lieutenant to go over to his house to find out if he’s okay. He called me a little irate saying, “You know, you're sending people to my house. You know, I was sleeping.” I said, “I’m checking on your well-being”, Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH MMR RRP RRP RP RRR Pow oN Sew MP mM wr mre we — Cwon4 OW SwrNPe —a wre RPRRR SOW NmMryrRe he S&S © oo Mmmenmn WM & WM : And I believe Ms. Noel picked up the phone, and I asked her, you know, what was going. And she told me what was going on. But she really couldn’t talk. So, then I came, when I got to the institution, I saw her and I said, “Hey, are you all right? Is everything fine.” And she was like okay. So, I had somebody from our crisis support team that was there talk to her to make sure that she was all right, and then I went to try to find Thomas. She said Thomas had left. So, I said, okay, “Left where? Where did he go?” They said, you know, “He went home. He was distraught.” So, then I get another call saying Thomas was outside, and that he told me, “I’m not answering any questions from you. I want my union", I said Thomas, “I’m not concerned about what happened. I’m concerned about your well- being. Make sure you’re all right. You've been through a traumatic experience”, and he just kept talking. So, there was a staff member out there. I 120 you know. And then I didn't know, and I asked him, I said, “Did you call in for work today?” And he said, “Yes, I did.” And he said, “He was sleeping and he was tired.” And I said, “Well I'm just checking on your well-being and just seeing how you are”, and I left it at that. MS. : That was this morning? : That was this morning. MS. : So, he basically called in sick today? He called in sick today. She's on days off Monday and Tuesday. : I'm going to assign both of them with no inmate contact, so they're going to be away from inmates and assigned on the outside (Indiscernible *01:23:09). : And then Lieutenant i. And then that’s basically what Lieutenant told me, and I told him, “Write a memorandum on what was said", and he wrote the memorandum and he submitted it. MS. Has he been in to work since Saturday? EFTA00064548

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RR Pow oH ODM wr P RR Wr PRR SOUS Le ed oll med Mme S woo mmr Wn & Ww 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ll RR wr 121 WM; Yes, he did. Actually he stayed there late on Saturday. He basically worked a double, and then he came back and worked during the day on it. So, he hasn't taken any time off. MS. : Is he there now? He's there. He's there today, so he’s working here. MS. : And -- : Oh, and I do have an addition. And I did ask him, you know, when he got there what happened, and he says, he doesn’t know what the condition was because when Thomas called for the emergency medical, he opened the door and took him down himself and started life-saving measures. MS. MM: So, Epstein was hanging from the door? We don’t know what he was doing because Thomas was the first one there, and when responding staff came, he was already there doing compressions and life-saving measures. So, I definitively can’t say where, was he hanging? What position he was or not because nobody knows when they responded, so. know, the life-saving measures without endangering your safety. So, he went in and, you know, so again, there’s no idea of what the cell looked like, what his position was, or anything. MS. : Captain are the at work now? Captain : I think. : His secretary is J. : Okay. Yeah. That may be a mistake. Yeah. So, Captain I was the Captain on a right? Yes. MS. : Okay. And I need to, and I'm not sure if he was at work either. I think he might’ve been off. But [MM is his secretary. MS. : okay. And Lieutenant is it ? a. was the and Captain Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH RRR RR UW Wh RRR ona MNrMNNrNP wre ow nm wn Re Cwon4 OW SwrNPe 122 What is the policy regarding if an Officer or staff member sees an inmate _in that situation? Okay. And I won’t want to quote this is a policy thing, but you call for assistance and you wait for assistance to come because you don’t know if that’s a ploy. So, if you go in there as one person, and you know, when somebody's hanging, that's dead. That is dead weight. So, you go in there, you don’t know if it’s a ploy. So, you go in there and get overpowered, guess what? Now that individual has the cell door keys for every key on that range, and that could be a recipe for disaster. So, it might sound inhumane that, you know, we have to wait because the individual on the grill can't come down range either because if they get overpowered, guess what, we've lost awhole unit. And that’s the most secure unit in the institution. So, she has to stay outside with the keys on the grill because there are two different keys. They don’t mix. And we wait for responding staff to come in and perform, you midnight Lieutenant. MS. : Okay. And he, she? She worked, apparently she worked at night and BM relieved her early. : At 5:33, but then I heard she came back and then left again. So, I don't know, I believe she went up to the unit. Has she been at work since I believe she’s on days off. : Okay. So, she’ll be back tonight. . Okay. Do you want to step out for a minute? Actually before -- MS. : Unless you have anything (Indiscernible *01:27:13). Just a few -- Okay. -- if I can jump back a little bit. Okay. Specifically go back to, did you have any one-on-one interactions with EFTA00064549

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125 Epstein? Let's see, I had one, I saw him by the attorney visit, small conversation. Another one I saw him when I was making rounds on the unit when he had first gotten into the cell with He was going into the shower. I asked him, “How was everything going.” He said, “I’m good. I'm fine.” And then J, I said, “How's he doing?” was like, “I want to go back to a unit.” So, you know, was just that type of conversation while making rounds. Okay. Thank you. : Okay. And did you want just step outside? Huh? : Do you mind if we just take a step out? : No, I have no problem. It is 12:23. We're pausing the interview. We're resuming the interview at this time. It is 12:29 in the afternoon. MS. Okay. So, the first 127 the email that you sent listing here are the three_possibilities for -- Oh, yes. -- who's -- All of that -- : == the best. All of that. Yeah. If you want that -- -- you're preserving. -- that’s there. It’s preserved. MS. Okay. I'm sure this will inevitably happen, and it’s a report for this. Has that already been drafted? Is that a process? : For? Will there be an incident report regarding the discovery of Jeffrey Epstein's body? It's called a report of So, we did that today. Okay. You know -- Um-hum. -- just a brief statement on incident, a 583. Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH 126 question is, I just want to make sure we have the name_right. + Okay. MS. : The Lieutenant or the Captain that you told that Epstein should have a cellmate? Well, it was Captain : BBB, okay. Yeah. MS. : Okay. And I know you're probably already doing this, but we just wanted to make sure you're preserving all of the emails that you referenced, any text messages that you've sent about this, any communications that you’ve had at all. Well when I had gave the it was given verbally in a meeting. Um-hum. : I didn't send emails out. I had a direct conversation. MS. Okay. : So, it was everyone in the I direction MS. sk, So -- S. room. Okay. But for instance, what happened, the times -- Okay. : -+ and moving forward with that. Do you know who drafted that? :_ The SIS Lieutenant does it. Okay. : And then I review it because it’s ultimately sent from me. It's a report of incident -- Um-hum. : -+ to our central office. look at it, the synopsis. Okay. : Just for terminology to make sure it’s accurate. And it’s just a brief statement saying that, you know, he made rounds. So, I Um-hum. : He was unresponsive. Life- saving measures were initiated. Taken to the outside hospital and then he was pronounced deceased at that time. And then we just move on from there. EFTA00064550

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Re Swoon nu ewrPH 129 : Just a couple of more -- + Um-hum. : -+ housekeeping stuff just to say, have you had any contact with the press regarding this? :_ No, I have not. : Has any press contacted you directly? : No, they have not. : Have you directed any staff to destroy anything? No, I have not. What directions have you given the staff in terms of preserving things? HE: So, initially when we came, when I got in, I told the Captain, get all the log books up there, the rounds, anything pertaining to get it and anything we can think of that might be needed. And it’s given to the SIS. It’s in the SIS office with the SIS Lieutenant. So, told them to preserve it, and whoever needed it, I know the IG has come by. They've taken some stuff. But basically preserve everything that might be needed to be 131 in his cell, or? Anything in general as it relates to him? Not that I can think of. I mean, it’s just documents that we're still trying to gather -- Sure. -- and locate, but -- It's nothing odd because I don't know what happened in that cell. + Um-hum. So, I don't know what would be -- : Okay. -- considered odd. Were you aware of him having any contraband in his cell? Contraband? Anything -- Well -- -- he wasn’t supposed to have?_Any unapproved things in his cell? : No. Okay. I mean, he would’ve received Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH 130 preserved. And then if any requests come, you know, we'll go and get it and preserve it. : Are you -- MS. : Can I just ask one quick question about the log books? : Yeah. : Actually while she’s looking at it -- MS. : Yeah. : == do you mind? MS. : This is -- : Are you aware of any objects missing from his cell? Are you aware of anything peculiar occurring since his suicide? Since his body was discovered? You mean missing from his cell? Yes. : I didn’t observe the cell, so I don't know what's in -- Were you ever notified of any, after his body was discovered, have you been notified of any peculiarities or anything that stuck out in your mind as odd? As far as what would've been an incident report. : Okay. : And the only incident report he had was, I guess it was the cloth that was found on the initial one, but then our Disciplinary Hearing Officer concluded that we couldn't’ sustain any charges on him because it was inconclusive -- Okay. : -- with it, but that’s -- Okay. And were you aware of him having any enemies or anything, or being a specific target by anybody? Where? In the institution? : No. I mean no one’s came to me specifically saying, you know, “He’s my enemy”, oral] that, so I don’t, you know. Was he not to be, not to be celled with anybody because of any problems that he would have, or -- :_ I mean. Let me rephrase that a little. Were you aware of any other inmates who had targeted him specifically? EFTA00064551

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Re Swoon nu ewrPH No. Okay. Um-hum. . The log books -- : Um-hum. : -- just for the record, I'm showin a a? book Tier G dated 08/10/2019. MS. : So, ‘this is filled out by a Corrections Officer -- Right. -- who's doing the checks Right. -- every 30 minutes. Um-hum. Correct? Yes. And they’re supposed to write the time they start and end and then initial it? = Who did it. MS. : And then the Operations Lieutenant signs it at the end of the shift. a. The shift that they reviewed time is now 12:35. Warden, we really appreciate your time. : Okay. : And the interview is completed, oh actually before we do that. Is there anything that you would like to tell us? Any statements that you would like to make? Anything you think we should know about the incident in general? Just wanted to give you an opportunity if there’s anything that you think we should know that we haven’t discussed. I can’t think of anything else. But I mean, as it comes along, I'll pass it on to the IG. Anything I get or any information. Thank you. Okay. Re Cw on4OuM Pwr PH MS. : Okay. Okay. : This is not complete for the simple fact that, you know, with the emergency coming, I had them take it and preserve it. So, it was part of the preservation. So, that's probably why it doesn’t go all the way up to 8 o'clock. MS. : Got it. Because as soon as I came in, I told the Lieutenant grab the 30-minute checks. MS. QJ: And is this a signature or a circle for a signature? That's a signature. MS. : Okay. Whoever was in, and I believe, and I’m not sure, but if it was the morning watch Lieutenant, it would be Lieutenant . |g Yeah. . I think that’s all the questions that we have. Great. The 136 That’s it. CERTIFICATE I hereby certify that the foregoing pages represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Interview of ay MR, Transcriber EFTA00064552