PRR RP RRP RRR CONDOM SWNHrPOW OHHH SWNP a a ee ond We wWwrr Ow DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF LAMINE N'DIAYE OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL OCTOBER 27, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 3 : recorder is on. My name is , and I am a Senior Special Agent with the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General, New York Field Office, and these are my credentials. MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. Mm-hmm. MR. This interview with Federal Bureau of Prisons employee - is it Lamine? MR. N'DIAYE: _Lamine N'Diaye. MR. Is being conducted as part of an official U.S. Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General investigation. Today's date is October 27th, 2021, and the time is 1:53 p.m. This interview is being conducted - what is the -? Is it 1515? +515, MR. : 515? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. UNKNOWN MALE: Madison Avenue. floor. WR. QM: Okay. 515 Madison Avenue, 31st floor. New York, New York. present is DOJ/OIG Special Agent 31st Also APPEARANCES: RR ae ee RR i) MRRP RRR RRR POoOwCmBADH ew Mmmenmrn Ww Wr OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: WITNESS: LAMINE N'DIAYE OTHER_APPEARANCES : a As well as -- UNKNOWN MALE: a. WR. MM: -- Mr. N'Diaye’s attorney. . What_is it? MR. First name . MR. Thank you, sir. Who is representing Mr. N'Diaye. This interview will be recorded by me, Senior Special Agent could everyone please identify themselves for the record, and spell your last name? To start, again, I am DO)/OIG Senior Special Agent, a M-A-T-U-L-E- W-I-C-Z. MR. I'm sorr This is D0) Special Agent . And these are my credentials. MR. N'DIAYE: wR. a: MR. N'DIAYE: ee | credentials. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. And I am -- I can't -- -- Lamine -- -- I can't show you any -- N'Diaye. First name -- Okay. -- Lamine, L-A-M-I-N-E. And EFTA00064311

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm last name N'Diaye, N-, = in Nathan, apostrophe p-, as in MMM, I-A-Y-£. R. GMM; Thank you, sir. Do you happen” to one -- MR. MBB: 1 still don’t know how he pronounces his name. Is it -? Yeah. And I'm so arrogant that I don’t carry identification. You know what I mean? MR. No. That’s fine. MR. Yeah. But you are sitting down here, you are willing to pay the fee. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. | know who I am. MR. : So, I am looking at Mr. N'Diaye’s law enforcement officer credentials. And it has a picture. And a signature of the gentleman sitting in front of me. Thank you, sir. And his attorney, do you mind - and again, it’s ae I'm sorry, I if really -- No. That's quite all 7 Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General, Warnings and Assurances to Employee Requested to Provide Information on a Voluntary Basis. It says, “You are being asked to provide information as part of an investigation being conducted by the Office of the Inspector General. This investigation is being conducted pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended. This investigation pertains to job performance failure, and security failure.” And this is what we are writing for everyone that we speak to, just because we're looking at it as a -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. -- whole of what happened. “This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not have to answer questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you chose not to answer questions. Any statements you furnish may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceedings, or agency disciplinary proceedings, or both.” And there is a waiver section. It says, “I understand the Warnings and Assurances stated above, and I am willing Right. PRR RR Se ee a RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww RR ae ee PRR RRR Dw wr ed ool mel ro wo mre wh -- as I say -- But you ar ~ E's his -- perfect, and we're in Right. This is an official 003/01G investigation into the death of inmate Jeffrey Epstein and the circumstances surrounding it, and you are being asked to voluntarily provide answers to our questions. Will you agree to a voluntary interview with the D0J/OIG? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes, I will. MR. Thank you, sir. This is the form that we have to do all interviews, interviewees. Is that form B? This is the OIG form III- . N'DIAYE: Yeah. Okay. . But it says is - I'm going to read it for you - United States 8 to make a statement and answer questions. No promises or threats have been made to me, and no pressure or coercion of any kind has been used against me.” If you would like to take a look at it, you may. If you agree to it, if you want your attorney to look at it, he may, as well. MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. MR. You can sign where it says “Employee Signature.” And then, also write your_name. I did read it verbatim. MR. MM: I'm sure you did. Okay. There is no place that said attorneys -- No, no, no. -- signatures. It's not for you to sign. It's for him, myself, and the witness. It's just if you wanted to review it, or ask any -- No, that’s all right. -- questions about it. That’s all right. I do have a question. MR. N'DIAYE: sign? wR. a: Where do you want me to In other words, if you say to EFTA00064312

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rR CWO D SWwrNP RPRRRR We WN Re RRR CoN DD a de ood SWwWNr Ow nm w RR SCwWOnHtDUN SwWwrP 9 Oh, so, where it says -- Right side. - “Employee Signature.” Do you have sex with ducks? And so, |! m not going to answer that question. That's the - he can't get in trouble for that? WR. MM: «I won't be asking that question. wR. a: *00:04:18). MR. : MR. : MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. WR. QM: Under the interview that we are doing right now, for voluntary interviews, he doesn't have to answer our questions. MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. Great. WR. GM: 11 right. So, thank you for signing that, sir. Did you have any questions on the form? MR. N'DIAYE: No, I don’t. WR. | A1) right. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. WR. WE: Do you swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth during this interview? MR. N'DIAYE: I do. WR. WM: | Thank you, sir. your current home address? MR. _N'DIAYE: I mean, (Indiscernible (Indiscernible *00:04:20). (Indiscernible *00:04:22). (Indiscernible *00:04:21). So, I'm 11 What is MR. : And what is your date of birth? MR. N'DIAYE: MR. : And what -- MR. : Jesus Christ. MR. : -+ what is the -- MR. . MR. : -- what are the last four of your social security number? MR. N'DIAYE: MR. = Is it correct that you were interviewed regarding the Epstein matter on August 19th, 2019? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. WR. QR: «Or in August of 2019. MR. N'DIAYE: I know it was some time in PRR RR SwWwKN PCW OHMS SwMN Pe RPRRR oN Du ee od Wr Ow mre oe Re CWO HM fWwrNP 10 signing as the signature of the Office of the Inspector General, Special Agent. I'm printing my name. MR. MMM: 0h, one thing. So, ordinarily, I would take notes. I’ve been at (Phonetic Sp. *00:04:49) for 50 years, as you saw, to which my body is falling apart. I had severe arthritis in my neck, and it’s radiated down to my hands. I can't really basically write. So, that’s why -- Sure. -- I'm not taking notes. I have a retty good memory, so, yeah. MR. a. All right. Great. BBB, can you just sign as the witness? : Put your name and take care of the rest of the form. MR. MBM: This is Special Agent J I'm signing as the witness, and dating WR. MM: 11 right. Before starting the interview, I would like to place you under oath. Mr. N'Diaye, can you please raise your right hand? But it. 12 August. WR. Correct. have you worked for the BOP? MR. N'DIAYE: 30 years. September, October, November. three months. WR. QM: 11 right. And what is your current position with the BOP? MR. N'DIAYE: I'm the Warden at FCI Fort MR. MM: Okay. And what are your -. You are the warden, you said? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. WR. QM: «Were you previously a regional director? MR. N'DIAYE: I was the deputy regional director in Philadelphia. MR. ME: «And how long have you been the warden at FCI Fort Dix? MR. N'DIAYE: About two or three weeks. Two weeks. WR. ME: 0h, so -- MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. WR. MM: -- it’s a brand -- MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. Okay. How long And August, 30 years and Dix. EFTA00064313

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 13 MR. -- new position? MR. N'DIAYE: It just got there. Yeah. MR. Okay. How long were you the deputy regional director? MR. N'DIAYE: I got it in February. MR. > Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: Of 2021. MR. Okay. And as the deputy regional director, what were your duties and responsivities? MR. N'DIAYE: Monitoring he activities of the 20 institutions in the region, and, you know, managing the administratives within the northeast region, and, you know, showing that institutions were running in an orderly fashion. WR. QR: «Now, did you supervise the various wardens at those institutions? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. I was over there. I was the rating official on some of the evaluations. MR. And were you a warden prior to that position? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes, I was. MR. Where were you a warden? 15 you familiar with inmate Jeffrey Epstein, who was housed within the MCC in July and August of 2019? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. MR. Yes. Okay. Great. What I have here is an after-action report that was written by the BOP. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Mm-hmm Have you seen this? MR. N'DIAYE: I have not seen that. MR. All right. So, this is not something that you are actually familiar with? MR. N'DIAYE: No, I am not. MR. No one discussed any findings or anything like that with you? MR. N'DIAYE: No one. WR. MR: 01 right. I'm going to set this aside just in case we need to, you know, reference it. So, no role in the after- action report? MR. N'DIAYE: Nothing. I wasn’t interviewed. I wasn't spoken to. MR. All right. Do you know of anybody interviewed, or I mean, talked to Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR OOD fwr mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 14 MR. N'DIAYE: In New York. MCC. The Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York. MR. And how long were you a warden there? MR. N'DIAYE: I came from May of - ‘17, ‘18 - May of '18 until, I forget the date, in 2020. I forget what it was. MR. a. Okay. some time in 2020 -- MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. -- when you became the regional director? MR. N'DIAYE: No. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: given -- VR. QM: Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: -- was a liaison to the regional director. And then, I went into the deputy position. MR. Okay. Sounds good. And August of 2019, though, were you a warden at the MCC New York? MR. N'DIAYE: MR. So, May 2018 to The position -- : Yeah. -- prior to that, I was Yes, I was. Thank you, sir. And are 16 and at least about, like, providing the information that they utilized to this report? MR. N'DIAYE: _No. MR. No. Okay. Fair enough. After the incident occurred, what was your role with determining what happened and what didn't happen after Epstein was found on August 10th, 2019? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, I responded to the institution. At the time, when I got there, he was at the hospital. So, I didn't go up to the unit, as far as - because it was a crime scene, and I've always been trained, if it was a crime scene, if you weren't particularly there, the least amount of people that, you know, that go through that crime scene, just don’t go into it. So, I didn't go into it, but you know, basically gathering information on what happened, notifying the region, notifying the FBI. The IG. MR. QR: (indiscernible *00:09:28). He's already got that phone call. MR. N'DIAYE: Oh. MR. MMMM: 0h, yeah, you know what I mean? Jeffrey Epstein -- EFTA00064314

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 17 _ Mm-hmm . : == like, fuck it, I'm going to Oh, okay. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. WR. MM: That’s why we do it for the next six months. MR. N'DIAYE: So, there was a lot of notification on what happened. Trying to find out the status of inmate Epstein. And things more along those lines. WR. —. Now, did you help with gathering information, up until a certain point, and then, were you told not to anymore, or did you continue to gather -? MR. N'DIAYE: No, like, my boss was calling me the regional director. They needed information. You know, starting a timeline on what happened. So, I had my executive assistant there, and, you know, we would just gather any information, and just, you know, making sure that, you know, things that were requested were being provided to them, any information. WR. QM: «And who was the regional director at the time? 19 it says, “See below. Just to ensure you know what is being relayed to DOJ.” Now, is this - And then, what I have behind it is, these are different timelines that are all updated throughout the day. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Here is one that was at 2:21 p.m. Same date. And then, the next one was 3:42 p.m. And the next one was August 12th. And then, the final one that we have is the August 13th. So, do these look like the timelines that you would have been gathering information and providing to Mr. —_ MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. It looks like it. MR. Now, where were you actually obtaining this information from? You said was obtaining it for you? MR. N'DIAYE: He was the exec, we recall, and in that, I'm not too familiar on the specifics on how we get it, because there was so much going on. WR. a. Mm-him MR. N'DIAYE: That, you know, I don’t recall if it was from the logbooks, or, you know, calling around and trying to find out. Mm-hmm . Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR Oo OUD wr mre reo Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 18 MR. N'DIAYE: It was (MM, at the MR. MM: Okay. And then, who was your executive assistant? MR. N'DIAYE: [J (Phonetic Sp. time. N'DIAYE: . Now, as part of our investigation, we have to review everyone's emails, with regard to the incident. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. : So, you mentioned that you provided Mr. with timelines -- MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. -- and things like that. So, these are just some timelines from - again, Mr. Epstein, I believe, was found around 6:33 a.m. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. In the Special Housing Unit. This is a timeline starting with, it looks like, August 10th, 2019, at 11:04 a.m. So, a few hours after the fact. It just says, 20 So, I don’t really recall the specifics. MR. a. All right. Well, rather than get into each one of these, because it will take too long, I'l] just do the very first one. It says, it just says, “7/23/2019, at 1:27 a.m., Epstein found in fetal position in cell, breathing, but would not acknowledge staff initially.” So, that is referring to the first initial attempt that Epstein may have had on his life? MR. N'DIAYE: Let me see which one. we talking the day of, or -? MR. a. No. This is -- MR. N'DIAYE: This is July. MR. : == yeah, July, (Indiscernible *00:12:40) 27. . N'DIAYE: Oh, no. This is July. . : Yeah. . N'DIAYE: This is the -- So, this is the -- -- no, the -- . : -+ timeline. . N'DIAYE: -- this would -. We would have probably got this from the SIS investigation. Are ~ N'DIAYE: EFTA00064315

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee oe od eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 21 MR. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: From that. I thought you were referring to the actual suicide. This is MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. that was No. What I meant was -- -- this is -. -- just the information MR. all put in there, as far as -- ate was his first attempt. MR. : -- well, it’s everything. So, so, it starts July 23rd. The next one is July 29th. And it goes 8/9/2019. And then, and then, until -. So, it's only - there is only a few. That’s why I was going to read it, just because there is only, like, three paragraphs, four or five, four or five paragraphs. MR. N'DIAYE: So, this looks to me like we send the information to the regional director - MR. Mm-hmm MR. N'DIAYE: == and what he did was, compile this information to send to DOJ. MR. : Okay. Oh, you're right. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. 23 Neck was red. Placed on suicide watch, and medical evaluation. Epstein receive daily psychological evaluations while on suicide watch.” Was that your recollection, too? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. That is what is in the report. But I want to -- MR. Sure. MR. N'DIAYE: -- clarify what we went -. You know, when I, when you first read it to me . > Mm-hmm, . N'DIAYE: -- I thought you meant the Yup, yup. So -- Well, we have that, too. N'DIAYE: MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. -- that one is here. this one is from you, and this is what I thought it was starting with, as well. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. Because it said timeline on it. From you to Mr. This initial one actually talks about Friday, August 9th, And RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr MRRP RRR Pow OAS Mmmenmrn Ww Wr a: MR. N'DIAYE: This is not -- MR. -- sent this to you. he is saying -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. -- just ensure you know.” MR. N'DIAYE: so, this is compiled off of several different documents -- MR. : Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: _-- which he condensed. MR. So -- MR. N'DIAYE: From -. MR. -- he sent it to you. I'm sorry. I read that incorrectly. So, looking at this, then, let's just review it and make each point, just make sure that it’s what you understand. It says, “On July 23rd, 2019, Epstein was found in a fetal position in cell, breathing, but would not acknowledge staff initially.” MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. “After removed, he interacted with staff and speaking to staff. So, -- yeah, this thing. : -- “see below -- Right. 24 2019. It starts with, “8:00 a.m., inmate J , reg number 85993-054, departs for court. WAB-USMS-SONY. ll is Epstein’s cellmate.” MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. So, just starting with that, then, I do have, we're going to get into that later, but what does that tell you, if it says inmate MJ is departing for court, but it also says WAB-USMS-SDNY? MR. N'DIAYE: So, that would mean With All Belongings. WR. QM: So, that means he's not returning. Correct? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. mo All right. So, at 8:00 a.m., is actually leaving, not coming back to the MCC. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. All right. Great. And then, it just goes on from there, what happens throughout that day. And we’re going to get into these things more in detail, so I don’t want to go through each thing, because we're going to have to get into it later. But so, EFTA00064316

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 25 this information is stuff that you guys were _— and you were providing to Mr. MR. N'DIAYE: That would probably be information that we sent up to him. MR. Okay. Great. this is all the updates that occurred afterwards. Let's see. Why is that highlighted? So, here is something. Do you know why in this one, it would be updated? This one is 7:00 p.m., 7:00 p.m., and then, “7:32 a.m., PIO notified of incident by the warden." Is that just, put that in the wron place or something, and it says, “Inmate = released from court.” MR. N'DIAYE: _(Indiscernible *00:16:27). MR. (Indiscernible *00:16:30) just in the wrong spot. It was made for August 10th. MR. N'DIAYE: *00:16:34). wR. QM: «Yeah. Okay. So, the next one, that is the big discrepancy here. It just shows the next update, you have that under August - or Saturday - August 10th. And then, Mn-hmm. (Indiscernible 27 day. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. I didn't come back to work until, when I got called, there was a suicide at the (Indiscernible *00:17:28). MR. — Okay. So, all of this. So, if I can have that back, if you don’t mind. So, all of this. All right. Is it safe to assume that, as this went on, and specifically, the last one that we have is Tuesday, August 13th, 2019. The Tuesday 13th, August 13th, would be the most accurate timeline? MR. N'DIAYE: It should be, but I don’t want to attest to it. I mean -- MR. Yeah, yeah. MR. N'DIAYE: _-- yeah. MR. I'm just saying, based - is there any reason for you to believe that the timelines that were provided, or in any way, it was determined that, you know, we should add a point that actually didn't occur? Or is it safe to assume that, the last one that was sent would be the most accurate one? MR. N'DIAYE: That's how it typically works. At, you know, but I can't, I can't attest to it -- Wey DHfwrP PRR RRP RRP RRR WeonyDwVfwrNro mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 26 MR. N'DIAYE: This can't be -. This doesn't make -. I don’t know. Because it says, “PIO notified of incident by the warden.” I was off that day, on Friday. I wasn't at work. WR. MM: «Yeah. So, that’s why I think that they -. So, the next one I'm looking at shows that that point is now under Saturday, August 10th. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. would be -- MR. MR. N'DIAYE: wasn't -- I don't know why it So -- -- under Friday, because I : -- yeah. Okay. -- I wasn’t working. So, you were actually off ~ N'DIAYE: . N'DIAYE: _I was off -- -- off on August 9th? -- on Friday. Yes. All right. You and ~ N'DIAYE: everyone else. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. MR. QM: | And yeah. MR. N'DIAYE: -- of whether it was accurate, but typically, the last one that you send usually, you know, if you have to make corrections, you make the corrections. And information, if you have to. MR. a. Sure. Okay. Great. When I show you things, it's not attesting to it, but -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. -- I'm going to ask you just to initial and date, and that’s just to say, specifically, that this is the document we Jooked at, and when we spoke. It is absolutely not attesting to it. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. It’s not saying that this stuff is accurate. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. MR. N'DIAYE: or -? MR. -- nope. Just your initial and date. I'm just going to do this last one, just the top of it. I'm not going to Huh? Everybody was off that And so, I write the date -- If you could -- -- and put reviewed on it, EFTA00064317

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 PRR RRR RR NDMP WNPRPOWOHDH SWwNP ae ee od WS Wr rs © Ww oc 29 have you do every single one. And I'm going to put this in a pile, back in a paper clip, and I'm going to hand it to my friend over here. MR. N'DIAYE: What's the date? The 18th? wR. GE: 27th. MR. N'DIAYE: 27th. + 10/27/21. MR. Thank you, sir, for initialing and dating that. All right. going to just actually, because it’s the timeline, I'm going to keep it in front of me because we might have to reference it. I can tell -- All right. -- this is going to be a long- I'm ass interview. MR. It's going to be pretty That's where I was trying to -- MR. : Yeah. Just -. MR. : == you know? All right. So, July 23rd incident. That was, what do you recall what happened on July 23rd with inmate and Mr. Epstein? Do you recall? MR. N'DIAYE: I recall the investigation that couldn't determine if they had an WR. QM: «So, this one is specifically from, it says . Was that -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. : == your AW? That is the AW. MR. : Send it to you? MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. : And this is a memo from, it says Mr. _ os is the operations lieutenant. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. female. WR. WM: Right. This is where I wanted to ask you if you knew -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. -- about this. It specifically says, so, it_was originally, I i sent from Captain to AW Lieutenant. She's a MR. N'DIAYE: MR. you. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Mm-hmm . -- fron i to Mm-hmm And her note to you says, RR ROW OHMS fwrNP —— wr RRR SD RR ae ee RR i) MRRP RRR RRR POoOwCmBADH ew Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 30 altercation, or I believe if it was an attempt at suicide. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. : on the July 23rd -- MR. N'DIAYE: Something happened -- MR. -- where Mr. -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- in his cell. MR. -- Epstein was found with, like, a - was it a noose around his neck? MR. N'DIAYE: It wasn’t determined. It was, you know, that he was laying in his cell, but I don’t recall the specifics of the report. But I know it went back and forth where there was a suicide attempt, or an issue with inmate : All right. Yeah. -- $0, something happened So -- wR. a: . MR. N'DIAYE: -- with - yeah - . Yeah. MR. : All right. So, these are emails that we reviewed with regard -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. : == to that incident. MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmn. 32 “From the memo attached, the information I received is not what I was told happened.” MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. So, what I wanted to know is, and I guess, would you like me just to refresh your memory, to really quickly read what she said happened, so we can figure out what it is that didn't happen? MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. Yeah. MR. All right. So, this is subject, “Possible suicide attempt.” Again, July 23rd, 2019. It says, “On July -". Let me just sit back so you can just kind of read along with me. Would you mind if I sit next to you? MR. N'DIAYE: _No. MR. I'm vaccinated, just so you know. It says, “On July 23rd, 2019, at approximately 1:27 a.m., a call for assistance on the Special Housing Unit was announced by the control center. Upon my arrival, I was informed that an inmate had attempted suicide and proceeded to cell Z05-124LAD. I observed inmate Epstein, Jeffrey, number 76318-054, lying in the fetal position on the floor of his No problem. EFTA00064318

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRRRR SOD Se Wwh 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR rPOwWOH4DMH fWwrNP RPRRR Ww Wh RR sO ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 33 cell, wearing a t-shirt and boxers. He was breathing heavily, and was snoring. I called out to inmate Epstein and observed him flicker his eyes, and continued snoring. His neck was red with no abrasions. I observed no further injuries to his person. An attempt was made to get the inmate to stand on his own, with negative results. The inmate was placed in hand restraints, and staff was directed to retrieve the stretcher. As inmate Epstein was being placed on the stretcher by responding staff, he would open his eyes and observe staff. When staff made eye contact with him, he would hurriedly shut his eyes. The inmate was taken to HA-Unit.” Was it that? The health care? MR. N'DIAYE: Health. Health Services. WR. QM: “Dressed in a suicide smock, and placed on suicide watch. While awaiting the arrival of an inmate companion, inmate Epstein sat on the [MJ of the bed and began moving forward, as if was attempting to fall over, head first. When I looked away, he straightened up. As I turned to look at him again, he attempted the same act. I laid him 35 and they ran down. Upon further questioning, inmate — stated that he sleeps on the bottom bunk, but gave it to inmate Epstein because he’s old. He stated that he sleeps on the floor, on a mattress. He stated that, when he got up, he couldn't remember if he sat up or stood up to check on Epstein. He stated that Epstein was sitting on the floor, leaning to the side, with his eyes opened, but wasn’t responding. He stated that the last time he saw him, he was snoring really loud. Inmate Epstein stated that he comes in from a legal visit at approximately 8:00 p.m., and staff handed him a copy of the daily news. was on the floor reading the daily news. He stated that he had given it to him. He stated that mentioned that he had been in court all day, in Westchester (Phonetic Sp. *00:25:00), and was carrying on. At that point, inmate [MD paused, as if he was making the story up, as he went along, and stated that | stated, ‘These fucking N-I-G-G-E-R-S. This place is inhumane. Iwish I could report it. J, a CWO HUDMS fWwrNP —— COUT fwr re mre nd MmmrenNrn Ww WPM Wey DHfwrP PRR RRP RRP RRR WeonyDwVfwrNro mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 34 down on the bed, and directed him to cease his action or he would be placed in restraints for his safety. At that moment, he stated, ‘Okay. I won't do it again.’ And gave the thumbs up. Because of his unpredictable behavior, the decision was made to have the staff member observe inmate Epstein. I had left HA-Unit in order to make staff notifications. Moments later, I spoke with Officer MBB, who stated that Inmate Epstein was alert and had indicated that his cellmate, , number 78514- 054, had attempted to ‘ai him, and had been harassing him. He stated that the inmate had indicated that he had informed his attorney of this matter. I photographed and spoke with inmate , who stated that he was asleep with, his headphones on when he felt something hit his legs, and said, What are you doing?’ He didn't answer. So, he got up, turned on the light,” or - so, yeah - “He got up, turned on the light, and saw him with a string around his neck. He stated that he then called the guards, 36 Officer, that N-I-G-G-E-R, hobbit motherfucker.’ He then turned to a page in the daily news that had his picture on it, and stated that Epstein was worth 77 million dollars. Epstein then stated that he took his picture, balled it up, and threw it in the garbage. I asked inmate Epstein what happened prior to staffs arrival. He stated that at approximately 1:00 a.m., he had gotten up to get a drink of water, as he gets up every 30 minutes. He remembered walking back to his bunk, and waking up with staff there, in his cell. I asked if he had waken up and seen staff, why didn't he respond when we were calling out to him. He stated that he only remembered hearing himself making a noise like snoring. When asked about the allegations against his cellmate, he stated that he was told if he hurt him, staff wouldn’t care. Duty medical doctor -" how do you pronounce that name? MR. N'DIAYE: MR. notified and briefed. “Was It was determined that EFTA00064319

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD ee oe od wm Se wrN Pr CO Ww Cc 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 37 no further medical attention was needed. A medical assessment was not conducted at the time of this incident, due to the fact there was no medical staff available after 10:00 p.m. Upon their arrival of medical staff, inmate Epstein was examined and treated by M-L-P-Y.” MR. N'DIAYE: MR. : . . “For a circular line of arrythmia, at the base of his neck. One section on the front, with marks of friction, and a small arrythmia on his left knee.” So, sorry that that was so lengthy. But so, again, the question would be, is this, does anything in here strike you as inaccurate? MR. N'DIAYE: No. WR. QM: «So, when HMM says that in the attached memo, “The information I received is not what I was told happened.” Do you know what she is referring to? MR. N'DIAYE: I think she - if I recall - that she told, that said that it was an attempted suicide, but then she got any additional information that it might have been weren't even able to do that. MR. So, according to the medical assessment, your understanding is that they weren't able to tell if someone -? MR. N'DIAYE: That, from what I - if I can - and I don’t know - I read it - but I don't know -. I remember on the report, they were unable to conclude what would, you know, what, what -. Did he attempt suicide, or was he assaulted? MR. And were you satisfied with that response, or did you think that they missed something? MR. N'DIAYE: I think they looked into it. And I think it was, you know, you couldn’t look into it any further. I mean, either -- MR. —. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: -- it was a suicide, or it was assault. So, we separated them. MR. Okay. But there is -. So, it didn't say, like, keep digging, or you weren't, you know -? MR. N'DIAYE: I mean, they interviewed them. They asked the questions. You had the medical assessment. So, I don’t know what RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR OOD fwr mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 38 Epstein and [MMMM having an issue in his cell. WR. QM: | And what, and my understanding is that SIS came up with inconclusive findings. MR. N'DIAYE: In the investigation. MR. What is your belief that happened? MR. N'DIAYE: I can't speculate. MR. You don’t -. MR. N'DIAYE: I don’t want -. I mean, I don’t know, you know, with the injuries on the neck, I don't know if it was a suicide, and I don't know, based on Epstein’s statement, that was something done to him. So, couldn't prove what it was. MR. QM: Okay. And is it, is there any reason for us to know or believe that it was one or the other, though? I know you are trying not to speculate, but -. MR. N'DIAYE: I mean, I would, you know, you have there be the medical department, who did an assessment, and, you know, typically, you could say you come to a conclusion from injuries, from physical injuries, but we MR. : Sure. MR. N'DIAYE: -- conclusions could have been drawn from it. MR. And what happened with inmate Epstein after July 23rd? Or on July 23rd. MR. N'DIAYE: I don't specifically remember what happened. I know we separated the both of them. He wasn’t - and then, I know he was on suicide watch. They placed him on a watch. And then had psychology talk to him. MR. Okay. So, just so, that is just so you know, if you don’t mind just initialing and dating that one, that we just read. Okay. So, this next one is from Charisma toa (Phonetic Sp. *00:30:05). MR. N'DIAYE: She's a psychologist. MR. Okay. And then, with UCC. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. It says, “SW, chronological log, re: Epstein.” It says, “C.0. was assigned to staff watch. EFTA00064320

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 41 However, the wrong book was used. I am companion log, in lieu of staff suicide watch log.” MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. Was that something normal? Was that an easy mistake? MR. N'DIAYE: yeah, I could see it happening because we have a log that the inmate, you have an inmate companions that watch inmates. So, they use the log. And then, you have, if staff are going to sit on someone, then they use a certain log. But the fact that, you know, the documentation took place, it was just, you know, it was just an error. MR. : Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: But they did document, so. MR. : Now, C.0. BE. Is this Michael Thomas that you, are you aware? MR. N'DIAYE: I had two | I don't know which one it was. MR. it was -- MR. N'DIAYE: No, no, no. It had to be Officer MMM, because if it was C.0. I, 43 you're putting your name, if you are relieved, or you assume suicide watch. MR. So, here is the next email, so you might be able to show me an example of what you are referring to. It’s this email, is it the same thing you were CC’d, and this is, like, maybe this is the real log that maybe he should have been using. But here, it shows all the other logs. MR. N'DIAYE: So, this is -. MR. Hmm . MR. N'DIAYE: See, this is what I mean by when someone comes on duty, but this is what they leave -- MR. This is the -. MR. N'DIAYE: -- they mix the book up. But they must have wrote it in the suicide log. But typically, when you come on, let's say the shift starts at 8:00, you will state your full name, aS assuming the duties. Sa: 04: Okay. So, if I tell you MR. MR. N'DIAYE: And you typically say who you relieved on there. MR. All right. So, it looks like they maybe didn't fil] it out correctly. RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR OOD fwr mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 42 he would have been - his title is material handler. WR. QM: Okay. So, you don't believe it was actually Michael Thomas? MR. N'DIAYE: No. I think it was the officer. MR. It was Mr. Michael Thomas. Just from our records and from speaking -- . N'DTAYE: Okay. . : -- with Mr. Thomas. . N'DIAYE: Can I see the log -- Sure. -- how he opened the log? That is correct, right, ~ N'DIAYE: R. N'DIAYE: Where does it show that he started his shift? Because usually, when you come on shift, you write -- MR. a. This is what -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- the name. -- was attached to that MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. Typically, when you start your shift, your start off, you know, 44 MR. N'DIAYE: They didn't fill it out correctly. MR. And so, our investigation shows that it was Michael Thomas -- MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. MR. -- that was on him on the 23rd. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. And that wasn’t an “I gotcha,” whatsoever. My question was actually, Michael Thomas is the one that actually found him on August 10th. Correct? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. MR. And is that suspicious at all to you, that he was the one that was watching him on suicide watch, and then that he is the one that found him on the 10th? MR. N'DIAYE: No. I mean, typically, we had so much overtime in the institution, that - and we go by when you sign up for it. So, there is a program that you sign up for, and I don't know how the lieutenant did. They might have called them, then he signed up for it. So, I don't know. I can't say if it was suspicious or not. EFTA00064321

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRRR we wre RR SD MmMYyrRe re Oo wc 45 WR. MM: «Sure. And then, al these documents that we're reviewing right here, on these two emails, what are they? MR. N'DIAYE: Which one? MR. Both of them. MR. N'DIAYE: The suicide watch log? MR. Yeah. So, is this suicide watch log, as well as this? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. The suicide observation log, and this is appears to be the cover of a logbook, for suicide watch. WR. a. Perfect. MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. MR. All right. Do you mind just initial and dating this? And again, these aren't trick questions -- MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. MR. -- I just don’t want to, like, put answers in your -. If I think it is something, but maybe it’s not, you might be able to tell me what it actually is. MR. N'DIAYE: This one, too? MR. Yes, please. Thank you, sir. And this is, this says psych ops. So, this is another one of those emails. This one 47 WR. QM: 9 So, if you can keep them, and then write a note on them. MR. + Okay. MR. So that when we are -. After this thing is transcribed, we can keep things in order. This one is regarding the first attempt, and the one we read from J | And can you tell me, sir, what this is? This is July 30th. So, it is that same date that he came off of -. What am I looking at here? MR. N'DIAYE: So, this is -. Date, name, signature. Inmate name. Reg number. This is -. Is this a entrance log to the Special Housing Unit? MR. what I'm saying. MR. N'DIAYE: I'm just, I don't know. It might be an entrance log. This is 7/30. MR. These are all dates, but at least up until 7/30, that he was in the Special Housing Unit, but this says J. Epstein. So, I don't know if he would sign himself in. MR. N'DIAYE: No, no. MR. So -. I'm not sure. That's PRR RR Se ee a RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww RR ae ee PRR RRR Dw wr ed ool mel ro wo 46 is from MJ to you. Also dated August 10th, 2019. It says, “Psych ops is discontinued on 7/30/2018.” I think she means 2019. Correct? MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmm. MR. QR: At 8:15 a.m. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. So, is this also part of the suicide watch log? MR. N'DIAYE: That is a log you would also “wR. ME: Okay. Great. And does it say in there, I guess right here, “8:15 a.m., psych observation is being discontinued."? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. MR. Okay. Awesome. Do you mind just initial and dating this? And ' as I am giving these to you, can you try to keep these in order with regard to -- MR. : I've just been stacking them. MR. -- making a note. Don’t stack them on tip, though, keep them, like, bundled together, so we know this is psych. This is, like, the psych observation logbook. MR. > Okay. use 48 MR. N'DIAYE: It might be an entrance _-- MR. visits or something? MR. N'DIAYE: -- it might be attorney visits. Let me see. 7/30. G tall (Phonetic Sp. *00:36:57). Signature. Inmate name. Name. This might be an attorney log. Name. Fall. Signature. Yeah. This might. This is probably an attorney -- MR. Mm-hmm . MR. N'DIAYE: -- the log into the attorney I think that’s probably it. WR. MM: Here is Epstein again. It shows 7/30, 7/30, 7/30. MR. N'DIAYE: The different attorneys. He, you know, he could have had one attorney that comes in early in the morning -- MR. a. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: -- and then, any time a new one comes in, they have to sign in, saying who you came to see. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. I don't know. Or is it to the attorney room. : Okay. So, he had multiple -- So, this is -- EFTA00064322

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RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm MR. N'DIAYE: -- (Indiscernible -- an attorney log. MR. N'DIAYE: This is an attorney log. He usually had multiple attorneys. WR. a. So, it wasn’t Epstein signing his name. They are -- MR. N'DIAYE: No, no. WR. QM: §-- saying they were visiting this person. MR. N'DIAYE: Whoever comes and visits has to put who -- WR. «Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: _-- they are visiting. WR. MM: So, the visitor logs were for attorneys. MR. N'DIAYE: Attorneys. Yeah. WR. QM: A1] right. You mind just initial and dating that? And again, — if you want to write on here, just -- MR. + Okay. MR. : == attorney logbook visit. So, again, so that we can keep track of what it is these things are. Now, is this the same thing we just looked at? This looks like, 51 this is the first page, it looks like, of the logbook. Does this tell you -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. WR. QM: -- anything different than what we looked at before, or is this the same thing? MR. N'DIAYE: It’s the same. inmate suicide watch -- WR. SE: Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: == log. WR. WM: So, it doesn't say Michael Thomas on it, it just -- MR. N'DIAYE: No. It says inmate companion was watching him. Okay. You said inmate -. this is an inmate companion instead of It’s an . N'DIAYE: Yeah, yeah. : == the actual. You have -- I got you. So, whatever, does it ‘tell us which, who the inmate was, that was his companion? MR. N'DIAYE: Inmate companion [mm (Phonetic Sp. *00:39:51), and it has his number . Okay. . N'DIAYE: PRR RR Se ee a RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww RR ae ee PRR RRR Dw wr ed ool mel ro wo mre wh 50 again, it says, “Inmate companion assumed duties from staff on 7/23/19, at 7:00 until 7/24/19, at 8:45 a.m. Epstein was transferred to psych observation on 7/24/2019, at 8:45 a.m. until 7/30/2019 at 8:15 a.m. Inmate companion was utilized.” MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. MM: So, this one says July 23rd, 24th. And this one, again, suicide watch chronological log. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. GM: «Inmate companion logs. Does this tell you anything more about Michael Thomas, or anything different? What is this? This one is the PP-37. What does that tell us? That's just he’s on it? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. It just says, you know, (Indiscernible *00:39:01), let me see. You got category. I don't know what the MDS is, but typically, it's an assignment. Like, I could put in and do a PP-37 and say where he was housed at. So, I could put quarters. So, this must be a medical term. Concerning his medical status. WR. ME: Okay. Great. And then, right there. WR. MM: Okay. Great. MR. N'DIAYE: Assumed responsibility for inmate Epstein on -. WR. QM: | Perfect. MR. N'DIAYE: So, that’s why I was telling you, the staff one should read just like that, too. MR. MY: «11 right. So, this one is 7/23 is the actual inmate that was -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. QM: | -- Epstein’s companion on 7/23 until 7/24. Do you mind just initial and dating that? MR. MM: And this is right after the incident. The first incident, right? MR. QM: «This is - so, July 23rd or the 24th - yes, this is when he was on suicide watch, not on observation. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. QM: And this is that, it looks like this one is, again, it’s from you to Mr. . MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. WR. QM: «It says psych ops/suicide EFTA00064323

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 53 watch. And it looks like it’s the difference between the two. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. In laymen’s terms, what is the difference between suicide watch and psychological observation at the MCC, during this time period when Epstein was on it? MR. N'DIAYE: So, suicide watch is when we have determined, or there is a possibility, through what an individual is saying, that they might cause self-harm to themselves. Psych ops is, that person might not admit it, and we might not have anything to say to put them on suicide watch, so we just put them on what we call psychological observation. MR. —, And now, it was my understanding -- MR. N'DIAYE: _(Indiscernible *00:41:11). MR. -- it's basically the same thing, aside from what the inmate is allowed to have, such as clothes. MR. N'DIAYE: That, too. MR. Okay. So, is it same unit, same room, same -- MR. N'DIAYE: Same. 55 subject, whether it was to place him in general population. So, I don’t, you know, recall -. MR. : Do you remember ever being called by a judge? . N'DIAYE: No, I don't. I don’t > Okay. Speaking with a judge. . All right. Because that was the rumor we heard, was that a judge contacted you and said they wanted him removed from one or the other. MR. N'DIAYE: No. typically call for that. MR. But the attorneys * N'DIAYE: Judges wouldn’t frequently would? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah, frequently, they would, you know, call our legal department, saying, you know, why can't he go to general population. Why is he, you know, being housed here? And just not him, if there was any type of equipment that was requested. Those are the type of requests you get from the attorney. MR. a. Okay. And do you know if those attorneys were made, though, when he was a CWO HUDMS fWwrNP RRR PR Swr re RRR RR Wwonmnu mnmry Le mrer WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP PRR RRP RRP RRR WeonyDwVfwrNro mre reo mr wh 24 54 MR. MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. MR. Okay. The one thing that I’ve learned more recently is, though, during psychological observation, or I guess I should ask for them. During suicide watch, as well as psychological observation, is the inmate allowed to have attorney visits? MR. N'DIAYE: If they are on that watch, WR. WM: | what about during psychological observation? MR. N'DIAYE: I think it would be the same thing, that they are not allowed to have. And I'm not sure. Don’t quote me to it. Because typically, when they are on that, we don’t have it. WR. QM: Okay. Do you recall if either yourself or anyone at the institution was contacted by anyone, such as a judge or Epstein’s attorneys, asking that he be removed from either psychological observation or suicide watch, so that he, for any reason? MR. N'DIAYE: They will always call. I mean, they would. There was always a number -- same procedures? no. on either suicide watch or psychological observations? . N'DIAYE: I don’t recall that. . : You don’t recall. . N'DIAYE: No. : Sure. Mm-hmm . Do you know - I know you said that, and you didn't think that inmates typically could - but do you know if Mr. Epstein visited with his attorneys during that time, between the 23rd and the 30th of -- MR. N'DIAYE: I don’t know -- MR. -- (Indiscernible *00:43:28)? MR. N'DIAYE: -- if he was on that status, then he would not have been -- MR. You don’t believe so? MR. N'DIAYE: _-- I don’t believe so. MR. : Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: No. I don’t believe so. MR. No problem. All right. So, this, this one again. Oh, do you mind initial and dating that? MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmn. . That's fine. . N'DIAYE: EFTA00064324

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRRR we wre RR SD ee oll ood Wher © Wo 57 WR. QR: «Okay, BJ, you can file that accordingly. This one just goes back to that first initial timeline, that looked like it may have been a little messed up. The initial email from you, it looks like it’s a psych ops. “The logbook shows he was released on July 30th. He had an attorney visit, starting at 8:20 a.m. MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmm. MR. He was there all day. I will_send the attorney log next.” And then, Mr. MY response was, “The timeline we sent DO) says 7/29. Where did we get that date?” So, are we confident that he stayed until the 30th? MR. N'DIAYE: MR. an incorrect -- MR. N'DIAYE: I think that was a typo. MR. -- okay. Oh, sorry. Do you mind initial and dating? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, this answers your previous question. MR. —. What’s that? MR. N'DIAYE: About being on psych ops and 59 that’s why I was wondering if you would be able to clear that up at all, but you’re not -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. -- to your recollection - He stayed until the 30th. Okay. So, was this just MR. N'DIAYE: No. MR. : == he wouldn't have? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. Typically, if you are on that, you’re not going to have an attorney visit. WR. QM: «And just talking to psychology, they would, they said that, no, we always try to afford an inmate - they have a right to attorney visits - so, we try to afford that right. But do you think that maybe they were mistaken? MR. N'DIAYE: I'm just going from my experience, like any other of the inmates that we've had on suicide watch have not gone to an attorney visit. MR. Okay. Now, this, speaking of psychology, that’s the next point. Let me just make sure that all the information is on that incident. So, as far as SS, 0: MI ovever it is -. RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr MRRP RRR Pow OAS Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 58 seeing an attorney. He didn't go until after he got off. MR. an attorney visit -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. -- starting at 8:20 a.m., but it doesn't say if he had any prior to that time. Well, it says that he had MR. N'DIAYE: Right. Oh, because he was released on July 30th. i. RE: Right. MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. MR. So, just saying, like, yeah, he was released and -- MR. N'DIAYE: —_Mm-hmm. MR. -- he was visiting with his attorneys. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. And that's something we've had a little bit of a conflicting information. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. We've heard that he actually did have attorney visits during that time. And we've heard that he didn't. So, How do you think it’s -? MR. N'DIAYE: . : Okay. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. WR. MM: Okay. So, did you have any involvement with selecting a as Epstein’s cellmate? MR. N'DIAYE: MR. selection made? MR. N'DIAYE: So, we weren’t able to get a whole lot of people, you know, think that how we could house him to be safe. was a white male. Another high-profile case. So, and he is not, you know, there is this misconception that he was a big hulking bodyguard, but he lost over 100 something pounds. So, he was smaller in stature and frame. So, we said that would have been an appropriate cellmate for him. MR. And who made the decision? MR. N'DIAYE: To put them together? MR. Mm-hmm . MR. N'DIAYE: I did. We did. Okay. And how was that EFTA00064325

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee oe od eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 61 WR. GM: Okay. Was it in coordination with both the captain, as well as “r. iP MR. N'DIAYE: Everyone - yeah - would discuss it, like, you know, I, obviously, I sent it up the chain, to say, look who we're going to make him his cellmate, and what was the reasoning. MR. : MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. -- in talking with the captain, his recollection was that he brought the three names, you discussed it with Mr. he was present for that discussion, and is the only one who said, I want , put him with OY Do you recall it to be that way, or do you recall it to be -? MR. N'DIAYE: talking about MR. i So -- Mr. Which -? Well, are we : Oh, did that happen with MR. N'DIAYE: Well, NMI) and - what do you call it? - MM and, there were two names. So, I talked to my boss about it. They wanted 63 conjunction. I sent it up and told, you know, the powers that be that this is who we're going to be, and it came back and said, you know, we're good for that. WR. Okay. was in for? MR. N'DIAYE: He had - I know it was a big drug case involving drug dealers, and stuff like that. So, and - so, yeah, (Indiscernible *00:48:45) -- MR. : Some kind of narcotics. MR. N'DIAYE: == huh? MR. MB: Some kind of narcotics. MR. N'DIAYE: Some kind of narcotics. So, he - and then, I don’t - and I recall there was murder involved, too. WR. QE: Yeah. MR. N'DIAYE: But he was a high-profile case. So, I could -. I had gentlemen in there that were trying to get in there, but you know, they would have probably harmed him. I had another pedophile in there, and everybody in the unit, they know who’s in the unit, I'm not taking him as a cellmate. You know? So, we can't just arbitrarily force another inmate Do you know what RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr MRRP RRR Pow OAS Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 62 to see the names. So, I don’t know who they talked to at Main Justice. So, I sent the email, and stuff, with all the break down of the two inmates to the director's office. HS BM) (Phonetic Sp. *00:47:45). And because he was the chief of staff at the time. And I sent it up, you know, I put my input in, about as far as if we had to choose between who was going to get it, was the - what was it? - the Spanish, the older gentleman who left, like ”. a: p -- , that would MR. N'DIAYE: be the most appropriate because we couldn't find anybody. MR. : Okay. So -- MR. N'DIAYE: And then, they went up, and then, I got word back that, to go with . MR. Okay. So, Was when the -. So, your superiors actually made the selection, but for -- MR. N'DIAYE: . a -- = that was MR. you? MR. N'DIAYE: I mean, it was in 64 into the cell upon them. So, (MM was, you know, the best -- WR. HBB: The other inmates -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- inmates -. MR. QB: = -- would not accept Epstein, nor would not accept a pedophile. MR. N'DIAYE: They weren't going to -. They just weren't going to stab Epstein *00:49:29). I don’t know the reasons. But I mean, I can't make the decisions and say, all right, I'm going to force you to take this, and then something happens to him, and then -. MR. , i someone actually spoke with and he said he was willing to do it? MR. N'DIAYE: And I'm not sure on there - who spoke to him, but I don’t know. MR. : Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: It might have been. But I know we said we were going to put him in, and this is, this is what -. And he didn't have any issues. MR. Okay. And if someone did speak with him, who would that have been? Would that have been captain? EFTA00064326

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PRR RRR RR NDMP WNPRPOWOHDH SWwNP ae ee od WS Wr rs © Ww oc 65 MR. N'DIAYE: It might have been the captain. Shoot, (Indiscernible *00:50:02). But it probably would have been the captain, . : Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: -- you know, typically, you know, we're going to make a move, and we're putting somebody in there, we're not going to, you know, sit down and consult with an inmate, if that’s okay with you. I mean -- WR. —. Sure. MR. N'DIAYE: -- we just have a feel of the unit -- MR. : No. MR. N'DIAYE: -- that, who is appropriate to go in there, okay, I'm not going to put a drug dealer in there with him. So, you know, typically, another high-profile inmate would be appropriate. WR. QM: Okay. Now, do you have any reason to believe that a did, in fact, try to harm Epstein on July 23rd? MR. N'DIAYE: Again=, I can't speculate on that. WR. MM: Sure. Just because - 67 WR. GR: QR wasn’t in the cell at the time. . N'DIAYE: So -- On July 23rd, he was. -- he was. So, he -- He was. Oh, I -- -- yeah. . : -+ yeah, right. . N'DIAYE: Yeah. So, here's how I'm going to put this. As far as , we and his behavior in the institution, he wasn’t a model prisoner. I mean, we caught him, you know, with a cellphone. You know, making calls, you know, and circumventing his case, and whatever. But so, I don’t, I can't speculate on, you know, whether he would do something, or he wouldn’t do something. So, that was, you know, my dealings with a, when I was aware of him. you know, his case. MR. > Mm-hmm. MR. N'DIAYE: And the request from his attorneys. MR. Okay. So, following Epstein’s time on suicide watch and * N'DIAYE: N'DIAYE: Plus, RR ae ee —— wr MR. N'DIAYE: I mean -. MR. -- it would be pure speculation, if you did? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. It would be. be speculating on that. NE oi, . N'DTAYE: I can't -. . : Okay. . N'DTAYE: Yeah. WR. ME: | And you just prefer not to do that? MR. N'DIAYE: speculate. WR. ME: Okay. Now, so, our assessment from other people has been that -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. : -- EE vas trying to beat his case -- Mm-hmm MR. N'DIAYE: MR. -- and that he had every reason in the world not to harm Epstein. And that was actually the person who notified the guards that Epstein was in need of help. Is that what you -? Is that a correct assessment? I would Yeah. I don’t want to 68 psychological observation, was he placed back in the SHU? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. MR. Okay. So, and I apologize to read all these, but this is just - again - we're not going to through them one by one, but just to show what it is that we have here. So, this one says it's from an to MJ. Did I get this from you? I think this is something that forwarded on. MR. She say even gave your own drinking -- MR. MM: | This one says, “Can you send me notes on Epstein? On his suicide attempt. Thanks.” That was from J. Pr it looks like, sent it up. So, said, “I need this ASAP.” And it says, “Here are his notes.” MR. N'DIAYE: So, he said J (Phonetic Sp. *00:52:59). I guess the regional is requesting it. MR. a. Okay. So, the region wanted this? MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Yeah. So, this, is this what EFTA00064327

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm this is? Is this the psychology file of Epstein? MR. N'DIAYE: MR. clinical notes -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Those are clinical notes. So, these are all] Yeah. : == here? MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmm. MR. Would this have been, like, okay, it starts with, it looks like July 31st, and then goes back, July 30th. So, it looks like these are clinical notes from the day he got there -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. : MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. I wonder why. Why would they only send until July 31st? Do you know? . N'DIAYE: You said -- Not August. -- they sent from where? Well, it -- From -? -- started from the day that he arrived, it looks like, on, it’s July 71 Mm-hmm . -- up until July 31st. " N'DIAYE: N'DIAYE: why that would be? MR. N'DIAYE: Hold on. If an inmate is cleared off of - so, and you have to talk them about it - but most inmates didn't, once you are cleared off of suicide watch, they have other things that they do. You can come down and they give you some (Indiscernible *00:54:42) courses to take. So, they have other types of therapy, but it doesn't necessarily have to be entered in as a medical encounter. MR. Okay. So, this is, so, psychology could have been still meeting with them, just not noted as a medical encounter? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. You - I mean - you see them, and you can just, like, if you have patients, you will go, how is everything going? You doing all right? Yeah. I'm fine. I'm okay. So, it doesn't have to be noted as a medical encounter. WR. QM: «Okay. So, your involvement with this, being that he came off of psychological observation on July 30th, should psychology had interacted with him more in that type of setting, where they would have PRR RR Se ee a RPRRR COND mreNyre rmrROow mrer WW = Ww Re CWO HM fWwrNP R Re PRR RRP RRR OOD fwr mre reo 8th, 2019. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. To July 31st, 2019. MR. N'DIAYE: It’s any encounter you have with him. Any medical -- MR. =. So, did they not -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- (Indiscernible *00:53:53). MR. -- have any encounters after July 31st, 2019? MR. =. Do you know? MR. N'DIAYE: No. I am not aware of that because it would only - they would only annotate if they had encounters with him. MR. a. Okay. So, you are unaware of, after July 31st, if anyone had any kind of, any psychology had any interactions with him? MR. N'DIAYE: No. If it’s not in the BEMR notes, and that, I guess they didn't have any. WR. MMM: So, you would assume that MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. -- there wouldn’t be? Do you mind initialing? And do you know 72 Right. Okay. been writing clinical notes? Or do you -- MR. N'DIAYE: No. I think they -- MR. : -- or -? MR. N'DIAYE: -- did everything. Because they cleared him at the time. I mean, based on the SIS investigation, it was inconclusive whether he committed, you know, tried to -- MR. : Sure. MR. N'DIAYE: -- attempted to commit suicide, and I didn't read all the reports, but if he's sitting in the report, saying, no, I wasn’t trying to kill myself, and I didn't do it, that’s their assessment of it. MR. Right. No. I guess what I'm saying is that, I know you’re not a psychologist, but if the 30th was the day that they cleared him to go back to the SHU -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. -- do you think that they should have continued at least checking with him, or no? MR. N'DIAYE: mean, when -- MR. MR. N'DIAYE: Well, they probably did. I Okay. -- you make your SHU rounds. EFTA00064328

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 73 You know, seeing him in other parts of the institution. So, and you would have to ask them. But there were probably encounters with him. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. : A report. MR. N'DIAYE: -- a report, and a medical annotation in there. MR. Okay. So, this next email, it talks about, it says, “Warden N'Diaye,” and this is from | , and again -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Or, who is he? MR. N'DIAYE: Oh. WR. WM: 0h, here it is. National suicide prevention coordinator for the BOP. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. It says, “Thank you for supporting our scheduling of the psychological reconstructive for inmate Epstein. I will be joined by ae, (Phonetic Sp. *00:56:44) Correction Service Administration of : Okay. But that didn't require -- Mm-hmm . -- is he the coordinator? assistant -- MR. Yeah. MR. N'DIAYE: -- get the information. MR. So, it says, “I am attaching a list of materials we use to complete the reconstruction. We routinely take these documents with us, so please ensure that a copy of any documents you also need.” MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. It says, “Your assistance in gathering these documents, appreciate it, will be helpful.” So, you would just, you would provide that to, like, or someone? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. We tell the exec, hey, I need you to gather this information, and it might not be —_—, It could be the chief psychologist. Whoever is assigned to do it. WR. MM: Okay. But as far as you know, was that completed? Did he show up and do that? MR. N'DIAYE: MR. MR. N'DIAYE: I wasn’t at the institution. Oh, okay. [ -- RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww RR ae ee PRR RRR Dw wr ed ool mel ro wo Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 74 the Northeast Region. So, do you know if that was ever completed? The actual suicide reconstruction. MR. N'DIAYE: They might have, but nobody talked to me. MR. to you? MR. N'DIAYE: Nah. WR. QM: Okay. Fair enough. And then, behind it, it looks like, just, it looks like a template is attached here. “(Indiscernible *00:57:00 national suicide prevention program, suicide reconstruction materials.” MR. N'DIAYE: —_Mm-hmm. MR. Would have you been the one that would have gathered these things for him? Okay. They didn't talk MR. N'DIAYE: No. You probably -. Typically, when this happens, this comes from, when I used to do them, I would make contact with someone in the institution, to get it. So, you might -- MR. a: Mm-hmm MR. N'DIAYE: -- have the executive 76 MR. MR. N'DIAYE: institution. MR. from the institution? MR. N'DIAYE: Monday. MR. Monday, August 12th? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. MR. Okay. That’s what I was kind of asking you before. Maybe I wasn’t clear with my question. I was wondering if something happened to you after this, that you were removed and no longer -- MR. N'DIAYE: No. They just told me, go report to the region. MR. a. -- all right. So, as of Monday, August 12th, 2019, you were no longer at the MCC? MR. N'DIAYE: MR. afte that? MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: Well, I did today, to go So, you -- -- I was removed from the -- when were you removed I was no longer at the MCC. And did you ever go back No, I didn't. Okay. So, that was -. EFTA00064329

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm park. WR. WM: Okay. But after this instance, and you were not really involved after that, then? MR. N'DIAYE: any -. wR. MMMM: Yeah. You check in today. Did you just say? MR. N'DIAYE: No, I had to park a vehicle, because I had to -. I had the government vehicle, so parking them, I had the prop, so I parked there, and took the train out, (Indiscernible *00:58:46). MR. I think when we started, and Dennis asked when you started at the regional office, I think you mentioned 2020. MR. N'DIAYE: So, the problem is, and he was talking about job title. My job title still remained the same. MR. As warden? MR. N'DIAYE: As the warden in New York, and it wasn’t removed until 2020. MR. Okay. Well, now, but as of August 12th, 2019, you started reporting to the region? That was it. I didn't have AW PBJ to yourself. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. WR. _ And it just says, “FYI, from Dr. , regarding her last interaction with Epstein, prior to her departure on Thursday.” MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. : : Dr. BERRI was the psychologist at MCC? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. MR. Correct? MR. N'DIAYE: She was the chief psychologist. MR. Okay. Great. And it says that, “I visited inmate Epstein in SHU on Thursday.” Thursday, meaning August 8th -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. -- 2019. “He was getting ready to meet with his attorneys for the day, so I had gone to visit him, right after the SHU meeting. MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmm. MR. He had a cellmate at the time, with whom I saw him interact with. He did not report any medical, or any mental Wey DHfwrP PRR RRP RRP RRR WeonyDwVfwrNro mre reo mrr = Wr 78 MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. DRD (Phonetic Sp. *00:59:14) came. I did my - when was it? - I had an interview at the U.S. Attorney's Office. And then, my boss came and said, hey, I'm, you know, we're signing you up to the regional office. So, I went up, you know, no reason why I was being removed. And I was just told to go up there. So, that’s what transpired. MR. : Was there another warden in place? MR. N'DIAYE: They brought another one in. MR. So, there was two people with the title of warden, at that point? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, they had Mr. Partruchi (Phonetic Sp. *00:59:52), and Lacome Vitale (Phonetic Sp. *01:00:01). She is. MR. a”. MR. : All right. So, if you don’t mind, just initialing and dating that. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. We'll get that out of your way. So, this looks like this answers our question. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Mm- hme . So, this is an email from 80 health concerns, and he denied any suicidal thoughts or intention. He was asking the writer to go to general population and was making requests for various leads he had at the time. He wanted social calls without them being on a speaker phone. He wanted a book he had left in the suicide watch area. His mood was not depressed or anxious. There were no signs of stress. He had planned on meeting with his attorneys to work on his legal situation.” So, there is that. And then, there is also, I don't know if this was attached. [BI I don’t know how this was printed, but it also looks like all the contacts. It says, “15 contacts in one month. Starting on July 6, 2019, when Epstein arrived. And after the -". It does say that there was a contact that_looks like, on the 31st. wR. WM: What does he mean by “contact”? A psychology contact. Okay. And then, here’s one, , SRA, was -- Yeah. MR. 8/1/2019, Dr. MR. N'DIAYE: EFTA00064330

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm . a: is SRA? Do you know? MR. N'DIAYE: It’s a seg group. Segregation review. MR. : Oh. MR. : MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. -- it says, “Court sent a Suicidal tendencies.” MR. N'DIAYE: No. That must be a psychological thing. I thought it said SRO. If it says SRA, that must be for SHU. MR. Okay. And it says, “On August Ist, 2019, he denied any suicide ally, friends (Indiscernible *01:02:07) supportive Jewish against his religion, still denied knowing what happened to him on 7/23/2019, when he was discovered with a string loosely tied around his neck. Said his incident report for self-mutilation was expunged. His cellmate is talkative, but will give it a chance. Noisy in SHU, he lives for fighting this case and going back to his normal life.” And again, it say that the 2019 was with Dr. | what I just -- being conducted. So, it says -- form. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. : , and it just says everyone who is attached to this sent, this was sent to. MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmm. MR. Is this something that they normally do, after someone comes off of psych observation or suicide watch? Do they send this out to everyone? Or was it a special case for this? MR. N'DIAYE: No. MR. That’s typical? MR. N'DIAYE: Typical. Because you have to let the lieutenants, the shift lieutenants, everyone know, you know, the person is coming off. And where to house them. Some go back to their units. In his case, he was going back to the Special Housing Unit. WR. —. Okay. Great. Do you mind just initial and dating that? And that was - is it their job to determine if a cellmate has to be housed with another cellmate? I mean, an inmate has to be housed with another inmate. MR. N'DIAYE: Well, typically, I mean, Mm-hmm . It’s typical. Wey DHfwrP PRR RRP RRP RRR WeonyDwVfwrNro mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr MR. N'DIAYE: MR. -- read. And on 8/10/2019. So, I guess they did (Indiscernible *01:02:40), just not in this (Indiscernible *01:02:40). MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. always. MR. a: So, yeah, then maybe those weren't required. MR. N'DIAYE: _No. MR. Yeah, do you mind, maybe the bottom on this one? MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. wR. WEB: That wasn’t attached to the email. That was just a separate document. MR. a. Oh, that’s a separate document? Okay. There you go. Can you go to psychology? All right. And this is the last one to cover what psychology. This was an email that was sent out by a To, it says, “Suicide watch/psych observation update.” On 7/30/2019, at 12:30 p.m., and it says, “Inmate Epstein is being taken off of psych observation and needs to housed with an appropriate cellmate.” Right. You don’t have to 84 it's just - if there's nothing in policy that sounds, you know, you know, in the correctional setting, if somebody has been on, you know, attempted suicide, or attempted to self- mutilation, you usually put them in with someone. WR. MM: Okay. So, were you or your staff involved with the decision to have Epstein removed from suicide watch or psychological observation? MR. N'DIAYE: Psychology makes the determination that the individual is, you know, no longer suicide. This is for any inmate. MR. Sure. MR. N'DIAYE: Is no longer suicidal. there is no reason for him to be on suicide watch. So, they either get released wherever they came from, whether it was the general population unit, or the Special Housing Unit. MR. So, on background on that. So, one of the individuals in psychology department -- MR. N'DIAYE: — Mm-hmm., MR. -- who would meet with Mr. Epstein, she said that she discussed this, And EFTA00064331

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 85 one of the steps down with Dr. [M, as well as AW a MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. And I was informed that that is kind of pretty routine, that that is conducted in coordination with executive staff members. Is that -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. That is. MR. : -- $0, that’s where I want to make sure that I'm understanding -- MR. N'DIAYE: We do. MR. -- what you are saying. MR. N'DIAYE: But we also do, we have what we call a - and if it is an inmate that is in our Special Housing Unit, we have a weekly meeting, and if there are any issues, that’s brought up in the meeting. WR. —. Okay. So, is it solely, though, up to psychology, if the inmate goes from, say, suicide watch to psych observation, and again, psych observation back to a housing unit? Is that their call, or does the executive staff, or anyone in the BOP, outside of psychology, have an influence on that? MR. N'DIAYE: Psychology are the subject 87 the word “courtesy” as a telling, but they’re keeping us informed, saying, okay, we need to take him off of suicide watch. Now, let's say I come in and interject and say, no, I want him on there. What is my reasoning for putting him on there? MR. > Mm-hmm, MR. N'DIAYE: What medical degree do I have to justify keeping an individual on suicide watch? Because now, it could go the other way. I decide to turn around and do something like that, I would be having a conversation with you about something else. WR. —. Sure. MR. N'DIAYE: So. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. you apprise -- MR. N'DIAYE: : Okay. Yeah. So, is it more to keep To keep us apprised -- MR. -- if anything else? MR. N'DIAYE: -- you know, and saying, hey, this is the way we’re removing an individual, and we move forward. I mean, obviously, we will have questions. You know, RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR OOD fwr mre reo mr wh nm w 86 matter experts. They are the doctors. They release someone off of suicide watch. I can't - if an individual is on suicide watch - I can't turn around and come in there, and say, take him off. MR. : Sure. MR. N'DIAYE: I'm not a trained psychologist. Now, I can put somebody on there. But then, you know, after hours, or if it is an emergency, or he attempted suicide, any staff member could put him on there. MR. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: But as far as taking him off, you have to have a medical reason, as far as them coming off. MR. So, in that interview with that individual, they said the decision was discussed with AW a and that individual concurred with that decision. If they didn't concur, though, would that matter to them? MR. N'DIAYE: What do you mean, if the AW didn't concur with it? MR. MR. N'DIAYE: > Mm-hmm. I mean, I don’t want to use if we had questions. MR. : Guys, I want to go for a second. All right? MR. N'DIAYE: MR. MR. continue or wait? "eR. Okay. : I got to go pee. Do you want us to No, just stay by me. Oh, don’t continue. I'l] be right back. MR. Absolutely. I'm going to pause this recording then. It is currently 3:00 p.m. on Wednesday, October 27th, 2021. This is Special Agent [NMI and I am pausing the recording. (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter went off the record and back on the record). MR. All right. The recorder is back on. It is 3:04 p.m. after a quick, short break. Mr. N'Diaye, just reminding you that you are under oath. MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. MR. All right. Address these. MR. N'DIAYE: Oh. MR. MM: 1] right. So, the last Sorry. EFTA00064332

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 89 that we discussed was that psychology said that Mr. Epstein needed to have a cellmate, and this is where we talked a little bit about it. It sounded like the decision to have placed as Epstein’s cellmate was actually made at a higher level than yourself? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. MR. Okay. And who made that decision? MR. N'DIAYE: I don’t know. Listen. I know, I sent it to my supervisor. Actually, the two inmates that would kind of figured out there might be a cellmate, we sent those names to the director's office. MR. > Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: And it was [iD BE was the chief of staff. And because, see, my boss told me that they had to run it up to the department. So, I don't know who was spoken to in the department. And it got back, and my boss said that, too, you know, that’s a good choice. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. > Okay. Yeah. And that's Mr. J, 91 MR. N'DIAYE: wR. a: MR. N'DIAYE: didn't -- wR. WR: Yeah. MR. N'DIAYE: -- you know, so that’s not feasible, why we were able to keep him in. So, get a call, and they said hold up on that. He needs to stay where he’s at. a. Okay. I don’t -. I didn't -. Okay. Read. But that's -. We MR. MR. N'DIAYE: So. MR. And I'm sorry. Who was it that called you to say stay? WR. N'DIAYE: Mr. = And then, that’s when I had to send up the names. I guess he had gotten some from the department. I don’t know who he talked to in the department. MR. Oh, so, coming out of psych observation, you were looking to send him back to general pop. MR. N'DIAYE: No. MR. Or not back to. Into. MR. N'DIAYE: When he first came in, the whole process was -- PRR RR Se ee a RPRRR COND mreNyre rmrROow mrer WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR OOD fwr mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr again? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. MR. Okay. Great. based upon a list that you provided? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. There were some names. Because I - fast forward - I got a call, and we were gearing towards getting him out to general population. MR. —. Oh, so, you wanted Epstein to actually be in general pop? MR. N'DIAYE: I didn't want -. That's what typically happens. You know -- MR. —-. Sure. MR. N'DIAYE: -- you don’t want an inmate in segregation. Most of them, we’ve had a lot of high-profile individuals that come in the institution. You know, we do our intelligence gathering, to see, okay, what would be an appropriate unit for them to be in? And we place them. And then, we monitor them. If, you know, and that is how we move them into general population. I get a call saying, hold up on that. He needs to stay where he’s at. . And who called you? : Did he qualify as a pedophile? 92 But it was MR. MR. N'DIAYE: population. MR. I gotcha. So, back, you are talking about July 6th through the 8th -- MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah, we’re talking about -- MR. -- that timeframe. MR. N'DIAYE: -- the whole thing, and then, even, you know, coming out of psych observations when he got in, the plan was still to get him into general population. MR. a. Mm-hmm MR. N'DIAYE: I mean, we had the attorneys contacting our legal, why can't he be in general population? MR. — Sure. MR. N'DIAYE: So, and then, that is when I got the call from my boss, saying - and I don't know who he talked to in the department - but it was, like, hold on. MR. OR And on that note, I guess this would be a good time to talk about this. Being that it was ultimately decided that he go into Nine South, or the Special Housing Unit, was it discussed at all that he be placed on Oh, I see. -- to get him out to general EFTA00064333

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SCwWOnHtDUN SwWwrP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 93 Ten South, for the high, you know, the SAMs inmates? MR. N'DIAYE: So, here’s the problems with Ten South. It's the terrorist unit, and there's SAMS things in there. The amount of attorneys he had coming in there, we couldn't have those attorneys coming up to that unit every day, and, you know, breaching the security of it, and then, tying up the movement in there, because when an attorney comes in there. Now, those guys get attorneys, but it’s planned, and they are in there. Epstein’s attorneys were coming in early in the morning, and weren't leaving until late at night. And it was about four or five of them. So -- MR. QM: And guess who’s paying his bill? MR. N'DIAYE: -- right. That's not an appropriate unit, and that’s not what that unit is for. WR. GE: «Now, what about, like, if, you know, an E] Chapo (Phonetic Sp. *01:11:55), or some of the other high levels that weren't terrorists, how did they deal with that, or did they have attorneys visiting them 95 with that unit. So, he wasn’t appropriate to be up there. MR. Now, were some of those other high-profile inmates, though, such as E] Chapo, and who were some of the people that were in there? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. The terrorists up there. WR. GM: «But the non-terrorists. Meaning, the people that -. There was a few -- MR. N'DIAYE: Well, you had (Phonetic Sp. *01:13:05), but he was in for espionage, and had a SAMs on him. So, he -- MR. Now, did El Chapo have a SAMS on him? MR. N'DIAYE: -- he had -. No. His status was based on, and I know there was (Indiscernible *01:13:18), his escape status -- MR. : Sure. MR. N'DIAYE: -- and stuff. So, he was a high profile person that had escaped from another prison before -- MR. Mm-hmm . MR. N'DIAYE: -- so, that was an appropriate place to place him. a CWO HUDMS fWwrNP —— COUT fwr re mnmry Le mrer WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP PRR RRP RRP RRR WeonyDwVfwrNro mre reo mrr = Wr 94 or no? MR. N'DIAYE: They did, but it wasn't to that extent. Like, he, £1 Chapo would have his attorneys come in, but they came in for a couple hours, they left. As it got close to trial, then they would - you would see them more frequently. But Mr. Epstein, day one at attorneys, they were in there from the beginning to end. We even had complaints from the local attorneys, that they were taking up the rooms. MR. : MR. N'DIAYE: So. MR. -- the primary reason why he was placed in Nine South was because of the attorney visits? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, not the attorney visits, but that is the SAMS unit. MR. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: And he’s not a SAMs inmate. And then -. wR. WBBM: What's a SAMs unit? MR. N'DIAYE: Special Administrative Measures. That means, you know, strict communication. And there’s a lot that goes on MR. oe ie MR. N'DIAYE: was in general population, and a SAMs was placed on him by his attorney -- WR. QB: What was the other name again? MR. N'DIAYE: -- (BM. And he was placed up there. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: oR. question? MR. N'DIAYE: . i: . N'DTAYE: Mm-hmm. So -- Can I ask you -- Yeah. -- a totally irrelevant Mm-hmm . What was El Chapo like? Just like any other inmate. . Is that right? . N'DIAYE: Yeah. Just like any other . : Polite? . N'DIAYE: Polite. You know, no problems. But that wasn’t the appropriate unit to be housing inmate Epstein. MR. a. Now, did you even have the authority to place him in Ten South, if you wanted to? MR. N'DIAYE: I mean, I could have, but I EFTA00064334

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rR CWO D SWwrNP RPRRRR We WN Re RRR CoN DD a de ood SWwWNr Ow nm w RR SCwWOnHtDUN SwWwrP would have had to have, you know, some justification as to why I'm putting him up there. And there would have been push back from his attorneys. MR. —. Okay. Because some people had mentioned that, saying the warden doesn't even have the ability to do that. That comes from a higher level. MR. N'DIAYE: I mean -- MR. Is that -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- in essence -- MR. -- accurate, or -? MR. N'DIAYE: -- in essence, it does because I would have had to explain and justify why, you know, certain inmates with certain crimes are placed up there. Why am I placing him? MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. N'DIAYE: And then, the fact that, you know, he is a pre-trial individual, and needs access to his attorneys, that unit is just too restrictive for that. MR. Now - and this is a total Monday morning quarterback -- MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. Brooklyn. He was there. wR. WBBM: What was his name? MR. N'DIAYE: I forget. WR. MMMM: What did he do? What was he in there for? MR. N'DIAYE: That's the one that killed the pedestrians in lower Manhattan and ran -- MR. : Oh, yeah. MR. N'DIAYE: -- the vehicle into them. wR. WBBM: Yeah, and then the guy kicked the gun out of his hand. Right? Some guy -- MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. WR. MM: -- (Indiscernible *01:15:28). MR. N'DIAYE: He was there. I remember MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. N'DIAYE: Who else? We had All right. along what we were just discussing. that, this is fron 7 a supervisory staff attorney. So, this is It says who's just PRR RR SwWwKN PCW OHMS SwMN Pe RPRRR oN Du ee od Wr Ow mrNm oe Re CWO HM fWwrNP 98 MR. QM: | -- do you stand by the decision that he would be in Nine South, or do you think he should have been in Ten South, or what are your thoughts on that? . N'DIAYE: I think he was appropriately : Okay. So, Nine South -- Mm- hmm . : == was the -- That was the appropriate -- -- appropriate place for ~ N'DIAYE: ~ N'DIAYE: . N'DIAYE: -- place for him. Okay. . : Quick question. . N'DIAYE: = Mm-hmm., Do you recall if there were in Ten South during that time? . N'DIAYE: Where? . : In -- . N'DIAYE: Yes, there were. . -- yeah. Do you know who those inmates were? MR. N'DIAYE: 1 Chapo had left. I got the one that ran the call with people in 100 MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Right. What does this CLC stand for? MR. N'DIAYE: It’s the Combined -. He's the supervisory attorney for Brooklyn and New York. MR. : Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: At the time. MR. So, he's kind of, like, the general counsel for Brooklyn and New York? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. He was the supervisory attorney. So -- MR. a: Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: _-- he was in charge. MR. All right. So, this was to you, and it was on Saturday, August 10th, 2019. It says, “Warden, per our conversation, I spoke to two of his attorneys yesterday, August 9th, 2019, primarily in relation to his request for access to water in attorney conference.” MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. : “Attorne a sO, . Next word, . “With whom I spoke in person in the late morning, had EFTA00064335

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRRR we wre RR SD MmMYyrRe re Oo wc 101 asked, as an aside, whether we would consider housing him in the cadre.” What is the cadre? . N'DIAYE: Cadre is the camp. . Is that low level? . N'DIAYE: It’s like our lower security inmates. Yeah. WR. QM: So, you have an actual camp at the MCC? MR. N'DIAYE: It’s low security inmates. But remember, they are designated. So, we couldn’t put him in that unit because he’s pre- trial. We can't mix designated and pre-trial inmates together. WR. a. Okay. It says, “I advised we could not,” since he was a pre- inmate. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. WR. QM: “Later that day, but prior to 1:00, close out meeting, I spoke to attorney Michael on the phone. He had asked whether we could house Mr. Epstein alone in the SHU, to which I replied that we could not, based on his prior suicide attempt/gesture.” WR. MMMM: It's just, I've never heard of MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. : But all right. If -. MR. : That was $1,000 a phone call. MR. : Excuse me? MR. : That was $1,000 a phone call. (Indiscernible *01:18:25) charging. WR. QR: «0h. Now, this answers our question from before. So, this actually says, it’s from you to Mr. , it says attorney logs. This is that same thing that we were looking at. MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. WR. GM: So, it looks like July 30th is highlighted, and Mr. Epstein. And again, all these -- MR. N'DIAYE: assignment. WR. BM: -- (indiscernible *01:18:43). MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. WR. QM: «Yeah. So, that does now clarify what it is, because, previously, there was nothing that was in the subject liner. MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. wR. GR: «Or the body. These are the attorney Okay. RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr MRRP RRR Re Pow aOAUTH nm i) mre re WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR Oo OUD wr mre reo mre wh 102 his lawyers. You would think that his lawyers would be somebody that I was familiar with. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. MM: Since they’re probably charging him $2,000 an hour. MR. “He acknowledged that he understood. To my recollection, neither attorney referenced consideration for suicide watch or psychological observation during yesterday's conversation. Please let me know if you need any further information.” Now, was this just a request to any contact that he had with his attorneys? MR. N'DIAYE: He was just keeping me informed because the attorneys were calling every day, with different types of requests. MR. a But this was the day, obviously, of when he was found. So, this would -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. MM: -- he’s talking about context, just literally the previous day -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. WR. QM: -- that he was looking for different housing type arrangements. MR. MM: Yeah. I'm looking at the stack, and I'm sitting here, just Jesus Christ. WR. MM: We're coming to - hey - we're almost halfway through. MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. WR. WB: Well, that’s the way you're looking at it. (Indiscernible *01:19:04). A little bit different, fellas. I'm thinking about, I'm going to miss today’s workout and tomorrows. MR. N'DIAYE: Well. MR. MM: | Now, you've already answered this, but did you work at the MCC on August 9th? MR. N'DIAYE: For that -- “R. | 2019. MR. N'DIAYE: -- was Friday. was off. MR. WM: | What about on August 10th, 2019? MR. N'DIAYE: 10th was a Saturday -- MR. a: Correct. MR. N'DIAYE: -- I was, I worked on Saturday. WR. A011 right. 104 Friday, I But did you EFTA00064336

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 105 work in response to this? MR. N'DIAYE: No. I had to respond, if the day of the suicide was August 10th -- MR. > Mm-hmm. MR. N'DIAYE: -- yeah, I had to respond if I came in. MR. Okay. weren't scheduled to work? MR. N'DIAYE: No. I wasn’t scheduled to work. WR. QM: AN] right. This is just for - and this is going to be put in here, in case you need to reference it - these are emails that were from you to Mr. IM, with the staff roster. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. And the reason I'm using these is because these were literally sent on Sunday, August 11th. So, I know that we can rely on these -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. -- based upon being so close. So, this one is for Friday, August 9th. It's showing who was working that day. And this one is from Saturday, August 10th. Again, 107 place this, again, here, just in case we need to reference it, and again, it’s just if we need to look at who was working, and what position -- MR. N'DIAYE: So, but you Mm-hmm There's two on there. MR. -- and what. Yes, please. So, this one would be for the August 9th, that one is for August 10th. This actually was not - the August 10th one - was not attached to your email. Right? MR. : Yeah. You are right. MR. So, the August 9th one was attached, but the August 10th wasn’t. MR. + Yeah. MR. Yeah. that from -- MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. MR. -- just for full disclosure, but just so that we have both. The August 9th one was something that you had sent. All right. Since Epstein was required to have a cellmate, who was ultimately responsible to make sure that all the SHU staff were aware of this requirement? MR. N'DIAYE: So, we had to pull That they were notified? RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR OOD fwr mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr showing who was -- MR. This is a correctional -- correct. : Okay. Correct. Right. This is a correctional roster. MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. MR. So, who was, basically I think, involved with Epstein during that date? So, yes. How many rosters would there be, aside from correctional? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, the correctional officers are the only ones that keep a daily roster. MR. anything like that? MR. N'DIAYE: No. Because their staff are already assigned to where they are working at. i. a okay MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. And they have rosters that show where everyone is working at. But not, like, the correctional officer roster. "R. EM: Okay. So, I'm going to have you just initial and date. I'm going to 108 MR. = So, how -. So, Dr. J or Mrs. sent out that email, saying -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. -- Epstein is required to have a cellmate. The one that we reviewed. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. Who was required to make sure that staff that is working in the SHU is aware of that requirement? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, the captain passes it on to the lieutenants, and the officers are then made aware that he, you know, any inmate, if they are required a cellmate -- MR. —. Mm-hinm MR. N'DIAYE: -- that, you know, that he - they are to require cellmate, if somebody leaves or goes out. MR. : Now, someone such as an Epstein, who was just coming off of suicide watch, you know, a week, a week and a half prior, should all staff know that that person is supposed to be housed with a cellmate? MR. N'DIAYE: In the Special Housing Unit, anybody working in there would know that he was supposed to have a cellmate. Like, R&D wouldn't do EFTA00064337

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 109 WR. GM: Do you believe that there was any anybody - especially anybody that’s got a quarterly bit of post there -- MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmm. WR. QM: -- but anybody that’s working in the SHU on August 9th or 10th, do you believe that there could be a reason why they would say, we didn't know he was supposed to have a cellmate? Do you think that would be an acceptable excuse? MR. N'DIAYE: Because you had the staff that usually work up there, were up there. It should be, it should have been annotated on his - what do you call it? - it’s called a 292. WR. =. The hot list, you are referring to, or -- MR. N'DIAYE: No. Not the hot list. wR. GM: -- or what? 0h, you mean, oh, the 292. You're talking about the SHU -- MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. wR. : | -- file. MR. N'DIAYE: The SHU file. It should be annotated on the SHU file because, when you come in, you have to annotate on there his 111 that, you know, as we know, Mr. I left - - MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. : -+ in the morning of August 9th, Mr. Epstein was found the -- MR. N'DIAYE: — Mm-hmm. wR. QM: -- the morning of August 10th. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. WR. GR: «SHU staff that is working in there at that time, he’s 24 hours basically gone, you know, with no, without a cellmate. Do you think that this is a reasonable excuse for them to say that we didn't know he was required to have a cellmate? MR. N'DIAYE: No, because they did know, because I - from what I understand - someone wrote a memorandum, and had it that day, that they knew. WR. QM: Okay. Well, yeah, we can get into that. Now then, so these are - WR. QJ: One other question. I want to open a box. , ot Absolutely. . : That means I'm going to have to bring a sharp object in here. Is that going RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww RR ae ee PRR RRR Dw wr ed ool mel ro wo Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 110 meals, did he eat, the medical rounds. So, it would have been on there, it would have been on there, too. So. MR. QM: Would it have also been on the hot list, though? Guys. Yeah. What does the hot list mean? : It's just -- That's -- . : + sorry. . N'DIAYE: -- yeah. I guess the high risk suicide inmates. Yeah. So. MR. MBM: whether it’s suicide, or high risk for some other kind of problem? MR. N'DIAYE: It could be -. It’s mainly for, like, suicide, just to -- MR. : Medical. MR. N'DIAYE: -- to watch out for. Medical. Okay. MR. : Seizures. like that? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. So. WR. GM: So, point being is, do you think that, if any staff that is working in . : I need an interpreter. . N'DIAYE: ~ N'DIAYE: Yeah. You know, stuff to bother anybody? MR. : MR. N'DIAYE: _No. No, no, no, no. Okay. I'm sorry, I thought you were talking about, like, this hypothetical situation of if we were in the MCC or something. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. MB: 0h, no. No. MR. MM: = You're just wanting to know if you can use scissors. Yeah. That's fine. . : Yeah. . : I guess we should wait until he gets -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. MM: -- back again. If we speak loudly, will you be able to hear our questions? MR. :_ Yeah. MR. : All right. We're going to continue, then. The answer was yes. This is just a - EFTA00064338

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RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee oe od eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 113 MR. N'DIAYE: I don't know if that was somebody. WR. WE: There might be clients in the office. : Oh. Huh? . N'DIAYE: : Okay. That's why. Then we will wait. He wasn’t kidding about the . N'DIAYE: Oh. You know why I got this? This movie called Gangs of New York. MR. : That's a great movie. MR. : And he - and a good movie - and the lead actress was a woman named Cameron Diaz. : Sure. : And I had a wild eyed crush on MR. MR. Cameron Diaz, and this is the shiv, the knife - seriously - I found the guy who made the knife that she carried in the show, and I said, I want you to make me an exact duplicate. How sick is that? Of that knife. And so, this is 115 of people we've talked to thought he went to court, and that at court, it was determined he wasn't coming back. Had you heard that? MR. N'DIAYE: That's what I heard, too. I had heard he was going to court. And then, I guess word got back that he wasn't coming back. That's what I heard. So, I never got (Indiscernible *01:27:00). WR. MBM: It’s either a good day in court, or a bad day in court. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. I never got the actual story because I was, I was removed. So. MR. —. Okay. And again, what does WAB mean? MR. N'DIAYE: Belongings. MR. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: But I don’t know, and I don’t know if people will say that he left, and then they went and got him from the office. So, I am not sure. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. that says -- It means With All > Okay. Yeah. -- one of those documents So, this is -- RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du rR wo RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr MRRP RRR Pow OAS That’s super cool. . : So. MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmm. MR. Sorry. I'll ask a few more questions before we get into these documents. Were any plans made on how to address this situation for if IM was removed as Epstein’s cellmate? Like, if he -. Because I know at MCC, inmates certainly leave. (Indiscernible *01:26:13). MR. N'DIAYE: No. I mean, the plan would have been, you know, we would have assessed it, because usually, you get ahead of time, we would have just said, okay, when is -? When leaves, or you know, when he was leaving, then before he was placed back in that cell, an assessment_would have been made. MR. Okay. Now, what is your understanding of what happened with inmate HBB on August 9th, 2019? MR. N'DIAYE: When I got back after the fact, I guess the Marshals came and removed him from the institution. Okay. So, there is a lot 116 . N'DTAYE: _Mm-hmm. -- from Charisma I to you. . N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm., MR. QR: «With inmate Epstein as the subject. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. And it says, “So far, this is the documentation I have in my possession.” MR. Wow. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. QM: And if you see, you know, here, it talks about all the documentation pertaining to him. These look like all the BOP database -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. -- things. Then down here, it says, “Documentation re: JM, MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmn. -- reg number 85993-054. Right. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. EFTA00064339

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm WR. QM: It says, “Court documentation regarding WAB 8/09 -- MR. N'DIAYE: °19, MR. 2 -- 119, MR. N'DIAYE: — Mm-hmm. MR. And then, also SHU file. So, "Showing court documentation regarding WAB 8/09/19." What documentation is she referring to there? MR. N'DIAYE: through R&D. MR. Mm-hmm MR. N'DIAYE: Our Receiving and Discharge. They might have gotten -. They must have gotten information to release him, and that he was being transferred. MR. So, would it be at all- I know R&D creates something called, like, a court production list, or -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. -- would that be what she's talking about, the court production list, or would she be, do you think -- MR. N'DIAYE: So -- MR. -- or, like, a PP-38, or I guess whatever came MR. But -- MR. N'DIAYE: _-- with him -- MR. -- but that’s what would have been used by the SHU staff, in order to produce MMM to the Rao. MR. N'DIAYE: No. Not necessarily. What typically happens is, the R&D staff will call up to SHU, and say, hey, I need down. He has court. Or he’s being released. So, there wouldn’t have been a document sent up. MR. So, everyone that we talked to said R&D said, yes, we created this document. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. And the SHU staff, including the OIC, said, yes, we had documentation showing that he was WAB. So then, and they all said it was because it was this court production list that you sent out emails to -. MR. N'DIAYE: Unless it’s sent in the early mornin WR. a. And it's not something that’s sent electronically. It's something they said that they generate, print out -- a CWO HUDMS fWwrNP RRR PR Swr re RRR RR Wwonmnu mnmry Le mrer WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP PRR RRP RRP RRR WeonyDwVfwrNro mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 118 something, or whatever -? MR. N'DIAYE: I think, and I'm speculating now, it was probably the court list, and it probably said, we're sending him off to court. And it was a possibility that he might be getting released. MR. Because the document that has been alluding me -- MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmn. MR. -- is that court production list. Do you know if that was ever obtained? Do you know, the thing that, that R&D creates this list, they provide it to the - MR. N'DIAYE: MR. units. MR. N'DIAYE: -- list. I don’t. I don’t know what_they do with it. . a. They just, they all say . N'DTAYE: Oh, the court -- -- different housing Now -- -- destroy it after that . N'DIAYE: Yeah, they do, but -- 120 . N'DIAYE: Right. MR. ME: | -- and hand to different, the ops lieutenant has one, every housing unit has one. Internal goes around and collects people, based upon it or something. I think. And then -- MR. N'DIAYE: So -- MR. -- then they basically destroy it at the end of the day, and nothing is maintained in the system. They just use a template, and create a new one for every day. MR. N'DIAYE: So, that must have been the early court movement. So, I was under the impression that he was, he left in the afternoon. So, when typically in the afternoon, they will just call up and say, hey, we got one that’s leaving. So, I assumed he had left that afternoon. MR. Okay. So, is it, then, are you not - then to answer that question - are you not sure exactly what she’s referring to when she says “court documentation regarding WAB"? MR. N'DIAYE: Like, the way you explained it, then that means they were talking about EFTA00064340

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rR CWO D SWwrNP RPRRRR We WN Re RRR CoN DD a de ood SWwWNr Ow nm w RR SCwWOnHtDUN SwWwrP 121 morning courts. Well, that’s what they . N'DIAYE: Yeah. -- I'm just talking about . N'DIAYE: Yeah. -- specifically, what she's talking about in this email to you. Do you -? MR. N'DIAYE: But when you say WAB, With All Belongings, it depends on the time of day they left. wR. | in-hmm. MR. N'DIAYE: You know? You could have afternoon court, and you don’t have that list generated, and they say -- i. A Bu if MR. N'DIAYE: -- we need all his belongings. WR. QM: | -- this might help -- MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. WR. QM: -- and then, we will keep this in front of you -- MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. 123 WR. FR: Do we know what kind of nedicaticg he was taking? Well, that’s ‘_ = ‘We're not talking about - MR. N'DIAYE: That's We're not -. I know. I just am curious. It’s not -- We don’t know? Yeah. -- relevant. : Yeah. Okay. I don’t think it’s relevant. Here is another email that the U.S. Marshal Service sent. This time, it was at ~ NIDIAYE: Okay. MR. 2 oo MR. N'DIAYE: . io It says, “Prisoner production.” It looks like it was sent to custody. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. WR. QM: On Thursday, August 8th, 2019, at 3:36 p.m. And then, this, this document, prisoner schedule report is attached. PRR RR SwWwKN PCW OHMS SwMN Pe RPRRR oN Du ee od Wr Ow mre oe Re CWO HM fWwrNP 25 122 VR. GY: | -- this might help explain this. So, this is an email that was sent from the U.S. Marshal Service, someone named HBB (Phonetic Sp. *01:30:50). MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. MR. ME: «On Thursday, August 8th, 2019, at 10:33 a.m. It says, “Transfer of prisoners from NYM -- MR. N'DIAYE: To GEO. WR. MR: -- to Geo. MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. MR. QM: «The following prisoners are to be transferred.” The second person listed out of the two is, “HE, =. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. wR. QR: “85993-054.” MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. WR. MM: | “Please schedule the transfer for Friday, 8/09/2019. Please include seven days medication with the medical summary. Thank you.” MR. N'DIAYE: Right. WR. WM: So, this obviously was sent to R&D. Correct? MR. N'DIAYE: Right. 124 And -- MR. MM: You're looking at the second one. WR. WM: -- so, for the mcc -- MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. WR. MY: -- it: shows right here, the second person listed as J = MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. WR. QM: And it just says, “TF, transfer within. MCC New York.” And right here, it says, Judge MCC fi, GEO. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. GM: «What I was told, that means that he’s transferring from the MCC to GEO. Is that -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. QR: | -- your understanding? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. MR. MM: And then, on this one, this is the PP-38. On the third - for 8/09/2019 - on the third page, it shows J, from Z06-22. And that means the SHU. Correct? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. SHU. MR. QM: «To pre-remove. MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmn. EFTA00064341

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRRR we wre RR SD ae ee od WS Wr rs © Ww oc WR. GR: At 8:38 a.m. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. So, this was 8:38 a.m. He's keyed out of our system. We got these two emails from the U.S. Marshal Service, saying he’s being transferred. MR. : So, wait. Let me get this clear. He's being transferred to what place to what place? MR. i: From the MCC to GEO. MR. : And what is GEO? MR. N'DIAYE: A contract facility. WR. MR: And what is a contract facility? MR. N'DIAYE: A private prison. WR. MR: Okay. And you had nothing to do with -? In other words, somebody else decides to go from one place to another -- MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. WR. MM: -- you (Indiscernible *01:33:11). Okay. MR. ad The Marshals -. MR. : And would that be the judge or the Marshals? MR. N'DIAYE: The 127 WR. QM: «Does that now tell you anything about this, court documentation regarding WAB? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. Now, it explains that they had gotten a court order to have him go out. WR. QE: So, what do you think is referred to that court documentation? MR. N'DIAYE: I guess it must be all of these documents right here. WR. a. This? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. MR. So, what we’re actually looking at, you think she's referring to? MR. N'DIAYE: That's, I think, that’s what she was referring to. 1. RI: 11 right. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. So, court documentation meaning, documentation from the Marshal Service, saying that he was going to be transferred? MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. All right. Now, based upon what you are looking at here, specifically The Marshals, I guess. RR ROW OHMS fwrNP —— wr RPRRR oN Du ee od Wwrerow mr oe RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr MRRP RRR Pow OAS mmr =e Wh 25 126 judge. I don't know how the Marshals work, but . : Prosecutors. Marshals. . N'DIAYE: Yeah. : Judge. :_ Okay. MR. : All in coordination, make those determinations. But, and then, here is an email from you to Mr. . MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. With what you are talking about, that memo. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. It says, “On Friday, August 9th, 2019,” but before we even get into that, now that you have seen this, you have seen these two emails. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. From the Marshal Service on August 8th. On August 9th, at 8:38, R&D actually keys him out. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. : All of them say pre- removed or transferred. MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmn. from the Marshal Service -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. -- and the fact that | | , Whom -. Is it -? I've been told that everyone at the MCC knew who Was because they knew he was Epstein's cellmate. MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmm. MR. But at the very least, everyone in the SHU should have known who = was. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Because he was Epstein’s cellmate. What should have happened once, on August 8th, as early as 10:33 a.m., and as late as 3:33 p.m., the day before I is transferred, what should have happened? MR. N'DIAYE: As far as Epstein getting a cellmate? MR. : MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. The notification is being made that this person is being transferred, everyone gathers him up. And so, what this, I'm going to read this just to give you more information -- Right. Correct. EFTA00064342

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RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP PRR RP RRP RR COND WMH a a ee ond We wWwrr Ow MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. -- on his backtrack. This is a memorandum, dated August the 12th, 2019, to the warden - yourself. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. : From , who, my understanding is he was the OIC of the SHU at the time. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. It says, “Subject passed information from Special Housing Unit.” So, “On a Friday, August 9th, 2019, at approximately 1:50 p.m., I, SOS J, assed onto oncoming staff member, Officer = and present shift staff, SOS I and Officer , that inmate a was going WAB, and possibly may not return. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hme. MR. Also, that inmate Epstein will be needing a cellmate upon arrival from his attorney visit.” Now, what this doesn’t state is that Officer MN, or SOS , Walked, I mean, both Epstein -- . | = go get that. . : == as well as a, down MR. N'DIAYE: MR. primary purpose -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. -- for us being here. So, I apologize if you're going into that, but I want you to have all the information -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. : -- before I answer. should have happened here? So, R&D is contacted the day before, or two days before Epstein, or Epstein is found. One day before = is, you know, gone. They contacted both custody, as well as Rad. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. R&D pre-removes him at 8:38 on 8/09. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. down, to R&D -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hme. MR. -- and actually has this conversation with Epstein and MM, saying, I know you are WAB, we're going to get you a new staff, we're going to get you a new cellmate. Mm-hmm . This is kind of our What Mm-hmm The SHU OIC walks him =— ROW OHMS fwrNP —— wr RPRRR oN Du ee od Wr Ow mre oe RR ae ee RR i) MRRP RRR RRR POoOwCmBADH ew to R&D -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. -- with all belongings. MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. * Spoke with both Epstein and Mr. , and stated to Mr. - I think BBM stated to MM - make sure you get him a cellmate. MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmn. MR. I'm not coming back. HE, cesponding to Mr. Epstein, saying, “Don't worry. We’re going to get you a new cellmate.” MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. Now, with all that information, being that he is the OIC, he’s working in the SHU, he knows that he’s WAB. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. We've got all this stuff going on. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. This is the real big reason why I want to talk to you -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. -- as the warden. Mm-hmem And 132 MR. | means - WAB means what? MR. : With All Belongings, neans they're not coming back. MR. But Epstein is not coming back? : No. His cellmate. His cellmate. So, the theory is, if you are investigating, somebody says that you're not going to have a cellmate anymore, and in that conversation, or present during that conversation, is Epstein? . : Epstein is present. Yes. . : Okay. So, Epstein knows that he’s not going to have a cellmate for the immediate future? MR. attorney conference. MR. MR. until about 7:00 p.m.. WR. WE: -- that Epstein knows that, No. Epstein is going to So, he’s going to be -- :_No, no, but I'm saying -- -- in attorney conference EFTA00064343

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee oe od eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 133 over the next, say, 24 hours, he’s not going to have a cellee. , the OIC, , that they are MR. No. tells Epstein, as well as going to get him a cellmate. Before he comes back from_attorney/client, his attorney visit. MR. Okay. So, Epstein would know that he hasn't - going to have a cellmate. MR. a. Yeah, yeah. So, this isn't part of the theory. What my question to your client is, what should have happened based upon the knowledge that he was WAB? The contact with the Marshal Service, telling him that he’s being transferred. The fact that R&D, you know, the OIC walked him down to R&D, and R&D actually logged him out of our system. What should have happened? MR. N'DIAYE: So, what should have happened was, this information should have been passed up to the supervisors. MR. At what point? MR. N'DIAYE: See, with the, this information coming in, as far as, you know, when R&D -- VR. : in-hom. house with Epstein. 0m. MM: Now, if lieutenant, his name is (i. . N'DIAYE: _ Right. Re: oe . N'DIAYE: _ Right. . N'DIAYE: Right. . If he says, yes, I know Epstein was gone, but I believe that he was at court -- MR. N'DIAYE: _No. MR. returning back. WR. N'DIAYE: -- [I is gone MR. 1 Yes. MR. : So, HED BEBE knows that -. Sorry, did I say Epstein? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. You said Epstein. : Yes. knows 135 the operations You mean -- -- and he might be is gone. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. But I think he’s at court, and then, he might not be coming back. I didn't pass this information onto my relief, RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr MRRP RRR Pow OAS Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 134 MR. N'DIAYE: -- typically, it would come up to the Special Housing Unit. Once it got up to that, to the Special Housing Unit, the lieutenants should have been notified. MR. Okay. And which lieutenant? MR. N'DIAYE: Whoever was the SHU lieutenant, whoever was the operations lieutenant. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. also on leave. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. So, we've got the chief psychologist on leave, the warden on leave, the SHU lieutenant on leave. But we do have an ops lieutenant, we do have an activities lieutenant. And we do have a captain. MR. N'DIAYE: So, you should have let the operations lieutenant know, if you didn't have a SHU lieutenant. They, in turn, would let the captain know, and the captain would push it up to the execs then. Then, we would have to come to a determination on who we were going to : Now, on this case -- If the -. : -- the SHU lieutenant is 136 who was Cannata (Phonetic Sp. *01:39:59). MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. However, aS our investigation has revealed, the ops lieutenant also has one of these court production lists, that lists I -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Mm-hmm . -- as WAB. MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. MR. With that knowledge, is that a reason that he thinks that he went to court, and might be coming back? MR. N'DIAYE: I can't interpret what his thought process was, but if it said, you know, he was leaving, and I don't know what he was reading at the time. MR. Right. MR. N'DIAYE: He could have been reading, because sometimes the inmates do go out to court and come back. So, I don't know. I can't speak to what he read. Or why he made that determination. MR. So, listen, wouldn't have most inmates, when they go to court, come back? MR. a. The point being here -- EFTA00064344

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 137 . N'DIAYE: What I'm saying -- : -+ he didn't go to court. Yeah. . : He was transferred. . N'DIAYE: He was transferred. And I know you might have covered this, in your understanding, in your experience at the MCC, if an inmate is listed as WAB -- MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. wR. MB: -- With A1] Belongings -- MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. WR. QR: © -- what is your understanding? Are they coming back or are they gone? MR. N'DIAYE: transferring. MR. Has there been situations where they come back? MR. N'DIAYE: There have been -- WR. BB: After wag? MR. N'DIAYE: -- situations that, you know, they go out and they have to have them sending them back, if there was an issue. MR. Is that a unique situation, 139 WR. QM: Okay. So, would it fall solely on the shoulders of a MR. N'DIAYE: No. I mean, okay, so, here’s the other checks and balance. So, what about the other people on the other shift? MR. — That’s my question. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. So, or -- MR. N'DIAYE: I mean -- MR. -- or the people that are working on his same shift. MR. N'DIAYE: -- yeah. shift -- MR. So, who -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- if it was the notification should have been made to the operations lieutenant. Or the captain. And said, hey, cellmate left. He needs a cellmate. MR. : Okay. MR. : And that cellmate would now, at some point, he goes back to the cell, but that’s at the end of the day. MR. N'DIAYE: At the end of the day. WR. MM: Okay. So, nobody is ina position to say, hey, he’s in a cell by * N'DIAYE: That means he’s Qn his own same, PRR RR Se ee a RPRRR COND mreNyre rmrROow mrer WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR OOD fwr mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr or it happens quite often? MR. N'DIAYE: No. I wouldn't say. I would say that it’s probably unique. But usually, WAB, they’re gone. MR. : So, as the operations lieutenant, if you see somebody listed as WAB, should he have understood that that person is gone, and not coming back? MR. N'DIAYE: Should have. But then, you're talking off the document. I don't know what document they read. So, I don't want to speculate what, you know, was it, you know, send them to R&D, whether he saw that. I don't know what document. But I'm saying, if it is this document, that clearly stated WAB. MR. Okay. But as far as your concern, it doesn't sound like what you were saying is, , who was the OIC at the time, should have he notified the ops lieutenant? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. Whoever is - yeah - in there should have notified the operations lieutenant, hey, left, and -- UR. MMM: | He needs a cellmate. MR. N'DIAYE: -- he needs a cellmate, 140 himself. Until the end of the day. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. But the information is passed onto each other. You know, when you MR. QM: © And they are supposed to be doing 30-minute rounds, where they would notice that one cell had zero inmates in it. . N'DIAYE: Had zero inmates in it. . HE: Yeah. . N'DIAYE: So, I mean -- And that’s what brings us all . N'DIAYE: Right. -- here today. So -- . : Uh-huh. . N'DIAYE: -- I mean, that’s how it would have made, and when that got pushed up, we would have said, okay, we would have to formulate, okay, who can we get a cellmate for, for Epstein? MR. MM: | And I apologize to ask this because, but, like, so, on each shift would be the OIC, that would be responsible for that. So, for instance, would be on N'DIAYE: EFTA00064345

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 141 the day watch shift up until 2:00 p.m., he would be the one to responsible to provide the ops lieutenant, but then, the following shift, would it be -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Whoever is the -- : -- the next OIC -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- right. MR. -- or would also the people that are working in that unit, the other SHU staff, would they be responsible? Or is that a chain of command thing? Like, no, the QIC is really the person making that notification. MR. N'DIAYE: Everybody has a responsibility for their safety. Everybody. I . ER: Sure. MR. N'DIAYE: -- I might be the OIC, but I have some responsibilities. If I know, okay, you know what? They might need a cellmate, because I, in essence, I can have an individual assigned to that post, and they're just filling in for somebody that, the regular person that’s up there. And then, I have the regular people working up there, who are familiar with what’s MR. N'DIAYE: MR. -- at that point. MR. N'DIAYE: -- you have two other lieutenants. Now, I don't know if you are familiar with the Special Housing Unit, but it is a very_busy unit. i, Yeah. MR. N'DIAYE: You know, you’re giving out showers. You're giving out recreation. You're doing a whole lot of stuff. You, you know, running around all day, and, you know, sometimes things happen. 1. EMM. Understood. But in this case, wasn’t Epstein at your most high-profile inmate? At that time. MR. N'DIAYE: I mean, besides You have -- MR. : Well, I guess, at least the Nine South. MR. N'DIAYE: I would say he was a high- profile. Yeah. He was a high-profile inmate. MR. Is it, I mean, on that note, don’t you think that they would have, you know, found it pretty important to notify? Especially they - and I don't know that we PRR RR Se ee a RPRRR COND mreNyre rmrROow mrer WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR OOD fwr mre reo mrr = Wr going on. So, it’s kind of everyone's responsibility. You know? WR. a. So, is everyone kind of equally responsible, then, for this? That was working there and didn't pass the information on. wR. a: MR. N'DIAYE: MR. would be able to say. MR. N'DIAYE: I mean, it should have been, it should have been passed on. So, I don't know the dynamics to, as far as what was going on that day, who was working up there. What rounds were being made -- wR. a Mm-hmm MR. N'DIAYE: -- up there. You know, was the lieutenant coming around? Was the captain? How busy they were. MR. a. So, the lieutenant was not on - the lieutenant of the SHU - was not on. However, we do have records that the activities lieutenant at least visited -- MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. -- the SHU -- Can you say? Don’t guess. You know what? No, as the warden, he 144 brought this today - but there was even signs up that they created, saying, “Mandatory 30- minute rounds on Epstein, signed by God." Or something, you know, along the lines. Not, you know, meaning, like, do this. You know? Like MR. N'DIAYE: No, that was me. MR. MM: Is that right? MR. N'DIAYE: That was me. No. I mean, I mean, but it was emphasized to them. I mean, so, no one could say that they didn't know. MR. So, point being, there was, like, signs specific to even Epstein, check on this guy every 30 minutes. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. You know, orange signs that are posted up there. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. So, point being, with this -- MR. N'DIAYE: It should have been passed us, I guess -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. -- and that is where -. EFTA00064346

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRRR we wre RR SD ae ee od WS Wr rs © Ww oc 145 WR. GM: -- again, and I know that you are probably trying to, you know, hesitate on maybe saying, like, this person did something wrong, but really, who dropped the ball here? Knowing, though, that you could take a look, the day before, all these people are the ones who received the email -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. -- in custody. And so, I know we see Lieutenant MM. I'm sure - I'm assuming would be on there. WR. I think is on there. MR. N'DIAYE: Who? WR. : Is EBM on there? It’s just -- I didn't see J. -- maybe. . But again, this one, that one is not even as clear. This one specifically spells out -- MR. a MR. : -- this one, you would actually have to go in and look at this prisoner's schedule report. MR. Okay. Let me just take a 147 Service report that they just provided to the BOP, so that they know which inmates -- MR. : Right. MR. -- they need to produce, and for what reason. : Okay. Got it. MR. : Now, is that correct? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. MR. So, yeah. Based upon what you are looking at here, on the 8th, and then again, what we know about at the very least producing, at 8:00, knowing he was WAB, and R&D knowing he was WAB. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. What should have happened there? Like, who, in your opinion here, dropped the ball? MR. N'DIAYE: I think at all levels, it was the checks and balance. If it went to the lieutenant’s office, somebody should have picked it up. Working in the unit. It should have been passed up to the lieutenant's office. So, there were a couple of safety nets that could have caught it. —_a: So, pretty much everybody RR ROW OHMS fwrNP —— wr RPRRR oN Du ee od Wwrerow mr oe RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr RRR oo 146 look, just so I have, my mind is clear. There is a prisoner's schedule. The prisoner’s schedule literally means prisoner’s schedule. MR. a. Well, yeah. So, the prisoner’s schedule report is something like this, but it will tell you that they are either going to, like, transfer, or they are going to go to court. Whereas this other document that was sent to R&D was just specifically about the transfer. WR. MB: Okay. But there is nothing that says recreation, personnel care. It’s mostly going to and from court, or leaving the institution. WR. QM: “Yeah. Because it’s a prisoner’s schedule. MR. Okay. MR. : Report. MR. . MR. : So, it’s, like, what they are scheduled to do. Sorry. Yeah. No. It’s not, like, what their daily schedule is. Like, in the institution. : Right. It’s a U.S. Marshal 148 dropped the ball? MR. N'DIAYE: I mean, if we're looking at it like this, if you're saying going by an email being sent around. MR. a. Well, not only the email, but I mean, the email, I can understand if people are busy and they don’t always, you know, this one -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. -- it would be hard to - that one would be hard to -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. -- you know, say that you didn't know. This one, I could see maybe, you know, the prisoner’s schedule -- MR. N'DIAYE: Well, this one, I don’t -- MR. -- (Indiscernible *01:48:52). MR. N'DIAYE: -- I mean, I don't know what gets sent out. I know, if this whole thing, I don't know if it gets sent out to the staff. I think more -- MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Well, this is -- -- of a condensed version. -- this is with this. EFTA00064347

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RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 149 MR. N'DIAYE: Right. WR. WM: So, this was what was sent with this. This was sent specifically, just that. It's not a document. That's the body. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. That was sent. WR. QM: But that is, again, Rao. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. WR. QM: «But, which again, Rao - we didn't cover this - R&D is outside of custody. Correct? MR. N'DIAYE: Right. WR. QM: «But speaking with Rao, they said they would have produced this list, which SHU would have had, as well as ops lieutenant -- MR. N'DIAYE: — Mm-hmm. wR. QM: § -- the lieutenant's office, all the housing units, which it listed HM as was. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. WR. QM: Do you know if they are actually looking - like, the lieutenant’s office, people in the lieutenant's office, or the ops lieutenant, activities lieutenant - are WR. RM: «No, no, no. MR. N'DIAYE: -- they tear up. WR. QM: «We are being told, by the lieutenants, as well as -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. wR. QE: -- by Ra, they al] have it, and they all, and it would all - and it would have said WAB. Unfortunately, I haven’t found that document to show you this is what I'm referring to. But it’s a document they apparently create, which they call the court production list. Are you -- . N'DIAYE: The court list. . : == yeah. | N'DIAYE: I've heard of the court : But it’s like a -- And it - : == from my understanding, it is an informal document that they are just providing so that, you know, these are the people that we need to produce today. MR. N'DIAYE: For internal, yeah. The internal officer goes around and drops them off at every, you know, every unit, like hey, I ~ NIDIAYE: PRR RR Se ee a RPRRR COND mreNyre rmrROow mrer WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR OOD fwr mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 150 they actually look at that list and saying, or that's just based upon the busyness of their day? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. I wouldn't speculate. I mean, I don't know. I can't say what -- VR. SM: Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: -- lieutenant is looking at stuff. I mean, it’s, like, the documents. MR. TO No. I mean, but should have they, I guess is the question? MR. N'DIAYE: As far as what? Emails that are coming through, on who's leaving? MR. a. No, no, no. This would be a physical paper that they were provided. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. Internal would go around and provide everybody with this physical paper that they create, and then, they apparently destroy it at the end of the day. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. So, I don't know if the, you know, when internal gets the forms to go, they are dropping it off at different units. So, I don't know if one was passed off to the lieutenant. The lieutenant would - I guess this probably be the only document -- 152 need this guy, I need that guy. It’s a court list. WR. MM: | Yeah. MR. N'DIAYE: In the morning. WR. QM: | Exactly. MR. N'DIAYE: So, yeah, that’s not anything that’s kept on record. MR. a. Right. So, I guess the question, though, being that they had these court lists, is another one of these checks and balances? Or is that really just for the Special Housing Unit? MR. N'DIAYE: I think they -. You mean as far as the court list, I don’t understand your question, but -- WR. GM: | Yeah. back to the point of, like, were notified on the 8th. morning of the 9th. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. QM: «Epstein was found on the 10th. Didn't have a cellmate for 24 hours, and we knew for almost 48 hours. What should have happened, and who didn't do their job? Is really the question. It’s just getting WM left. we He left on the EFTA00064348

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RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 153 MR. N'DIAYE: And like I said before, when the notification, whoever was on the unit, knew that he was leaving, it should have been passed up to his supervisor. 1, A. A01-right. MR. N'DIAYE: This guy is leaving. But then, okay, let's say the supe, or whoever is working in there, doesn't do it, and somebody should have stepped up and said, hey, this guy needs a cellmate. And notified the lieutenant that he needs a _cellmate. MR. And that goes back to my, anyone that was working in the SHU, should have made that notification. MR. N'DIAYE: Should have said it. It doesn't just -. Just because you are not OIC, doesn't mean all the responsibilities falls on you. It’s everybody's job up there to say, hey, okay, we need to, you know, this is what we need to do. WR. GY: «And would that be the case for, when he left during the day shift -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. : -+ the next shift is the night shift, when he would have - I believe 155 you know, called and said, lieutenant, we got a - this guy needs a -- MR. A cellmate. MR. N'DIAYE: _-- a cellmate. MR. And again, I know we’re Monday morning quarterback because of the result here, but what is your - as the warden of the institution, on these days - how do you interpret this? Is this a really significant failure on their part, the not have caught this and passed that information up? MR. N'DIAYE: It’s not following the directive. I mean, and then, look at result. MR. Right. MR. N'DIAYE: So, I mean, the result is what, you know, caused it to be a serious matter. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. Now, as far to this memo, do you know why Mr. wrote this memo/ MR. N'DIAYE: I forgot. I might have called -. I might have called Lieutenant BBB, and said - and I don't know if he was Okay. as — back PRR RR Se ee a RPRRR COND mreNyre rmrROow mrer WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR OOD fwr mre reo mrr = Wr 154 during the night shift - he would have come back -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. -- and again, if they were doing rounds, they would have noticed that wasn't there in the first place. But also, certainly, when they brought -- MR. N'DIAYE: Epstein back. MR. -- Epstein back to his cell. There would have been no cellmate in there. MR. N'DIAYE: a cellmate. WR. QE: And would it be the same thing for the morning shift? That they would know that Epstein was in there alone? MR. N'DIAYE: Because if the morning shift is doing their 30-minute checks, you would have realized he was in there by himself. MR. So, should have every single shift reported it to the ops lieutenant, that there is no one -? MR. N'DIAYE: Whoever caught it should have, you know, let’s say one shift missed it, the next shift should have picked up and said, 156 You should have known he was working - said, what happened up there? MR. OR Now, when you say J, because he was the ops lieutenant, or are you talking about , Who was the SHU lieutenant? MR. N'DIAYE: , who was the operations -. Because first, I know when I got back, somebody told me I wasn’t at work, because that was my first question. Who was the SHU lieutenant? Where they are at. And then, I think I did reach out to , and said, what happened up there? 1. oy. MR. N'DIAYE: And that’s when I found that And did you ever speak MR. : . ae HE about this? MR out. with MR. N'DIAYE: No. . : Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: Because by the time I had gotten it, was the day -. That, I got that the day of, when I had to go up to, I think the U.S. Attorney's Office. MR. —. Okay. To speak with them about this? MR. N'DIAYE: When I speak up to them, and EFTA00064349

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRRR we wre 157 them the agent had the memorandum. MR. a. He already had it on him? MR. N'DIAYE: He had it on him. Because he was during the interrogation, he presented it to the U.S. Attorney that was there. MR. And was that the first time you had seen it? MR. N'DIAYE: No. I think I -. I don’t recall when I first saw it, but I know I had gotten it. And I don't know if I had gotten it, and then sent it up to my boss. And then, given it to the IG. I forgot. I forget his name, and who was handling the case. MR. : For the IG? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. : ; MR. : If you weren't giving it to (Indiscernible *01:55:18), it would have been . MR. N'DIAYE: Because he sat in there with us. MR. : . MR. N'DIAYE: So, he - I remember - he had a copy of it. MR. Okay. 159 it on to the next guy, saying that you guys got to do it. MR. N'DIAYE: Now -- MR. Do you think he should have done it, passed the infraction on during his shift? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. Absolutely. It should have been letting the lieutenant know. MR. Uh-huh. MR. N'DIAYE: That, hey, this is - we got a guy that_needs to be -- WR. MM: A celinate. MR. N'DIAYE: -- that needs a cellmate. wR. WE: =I should clarify that. MR. N'DIAYE: What? WR. QR: =I think on the elevator was MR. Right. was escorting J down to R&D. And was escorting Epstein over to attorney conference. They just happened to cross paths, I think -- a. Yeah, they were together, MR. Right? -- yeah, but I think IM is VR. N'DIAYE: though. MR. RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr MRRP RRR Pow OAS Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 158 MR. N'DIAYE: Because we had told him that they knew that they were supposed to -. MR. a. So, not including when you were speaking with the OIG and the FBI, did you discuss this at all with anyone from the BOP, such as I or 7 MR. N'DIAYE: No. I just got the memorandum, and that was it. Because I was, like, wanting to know, like, what happened. The, you know, the directives were given. What happened? MR. QM: | And when you asked what happened, was there a verbal response? MR. N'DIAYE: It was a verbal response. MR. And what did you -? What were you told? MR. N'DIAYE: That the supposed to -. That to other individuals about it. MR. Now, do you think that that -. What is your thought process of , who is the one who actually presented - excuse me - to R&D and WAB, what is your thought of him now saying, you know, prior to the end of my shift at 2:00 p.m., I passed 160 the one that brought him down to the - I - down to R&D. MR. N'DIAYE: Then that would make sense. Because if J is internal, internal takes him to court. MR. : Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: And then, if somebody is going to R&D, I mean, to attorney visit, then it would be SHU staff taking him. MR. All right. So, if is the one who is actually providing him to R&D, did he have a responsibility, that if he was WAB, to make any notifications? MR. N'DIAYE: I don't know if internal -. You know, was internal, and I don’t know if he knew, you know, the situation. MR. — And typically, would it be internals job - if they come and collect somebody as WAB - would it be their job to tell control, or the ops lieutenant, to say this guy is off our books, or anything, or -? MR. N'DIAYE: No. Because we have a lot of inmates that move in and out. MR. Sure. MR. N'DIAYE: So, he wouldn’t be able to knew he was had passed it on EFTA00064350

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRRR Ww Whe RR SD ee oll ood Wher © Wo 161 keep track of every particular inmate that is going and coming. WR. —. Okay. Basically, everyone had a share of responsibility? MR. N'DIAYE: (Indiscernible *01:57:54). MR. All right. Before we belabor this thing anymore, we want to just initial and date these both documents. We can get them out of your way and move on. MR. N'DIAYE: All of them? MR. Oh, yeah. top of this. MR. N'DIAYE: Top of this, Okay. This guy. You know, this . : Let me take this. . : Thank you, sir. Now, prior to this meeting, did you know that was actually transferred at MCC, and didn't go to court? MR. N'DIAYE: MR. MR. N'DIAYE: heard that. he was -- one. Wait, prior to when? : This meeting. Oh, no. I knew he -. I You know? After his death, that 163 responsible to make sure that Epstein has a cellmate? MR. N'DIAYE: I mean, if it’s the directive that is given out, I mean, whoever is working decide - passes it up, and then, that ensures, you know, to make sure he has a cellmate. So -. MR. So, SHU staff. MR. N'DIAYE: Whoever was working up there. WR. WM: Okay. When you say working up there, does that include, like, lieutenants doing lieutenant rounds and things like that? Or -? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, yeah, from what transpired, it is obvious the lieutenants didn't know. I mean, they knew he was, based on the email that, you know, they knew he was leaving, but as far as when the finality of it was, when you realize, okay, is gone. You take Epstein, you bring him back up in his cell, and he doesn't have a cellmate. I mean, something should have went off on somebody to make some notifications. MR. Okay. I know we're going RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR OOD fwr mre reo mrr = Wr 25 162 MR. MY: | Transferred. MR. N'DIAYE: -- removed. That he was transferred. MR. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: When I came in on Saturday. MR. Were you required - or I mean - were you aware that the Marshal Service had sent those emails on August 8th, 2019? MR. N'DIAYE: I was not aware. MR. No? Well, did anyone ever, prior to August 10th, did anyone ever make you aware that was transferred from the institution? MR. N'DIAYE: Prior to October 10th? MR. August 10th. 2019. MR. N'DIAYE: I found out when I came in that morning, because I -- a o%cy. MR. N'DIAYE: -- was, like, where is his cel lmate? WR. MM: Okay. So, you didn't know that he didn't have a cellmate on August 9th? MR. N'DIAYE: MR. No, I did not. Now, who was ultimately to talk about counts. MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmn. MR. Mn-hmm MR. Wait, wait. The notification. Would that go up as high as you? If someone would say? MR. N'DIAYE: They would send it up to the lieutenants, then they would tell the captain. And the captain would let the associate warden know, and then it would get up to me. MR. Especially an instance since you have a say in who -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. -- gotcha. MR. N'DIAYE: We would have to sit down and say, okay, of all the available individuals that are on the unit now, who can we house Epstein with? MR. Now, what about in the this case, where as you actually weren't working that day, would that -- MR. N'DIAYE: —_Mm-hmm. MR. -- should have they called you -- MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. Whoever is -- EFTA00064351

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rR CSCwWOmOANDMDS fWwNHP RPRRRR We WN Re RR SD ee ee od Se wWwNr Ow CO nm w RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP PRR RP RRP RR COND WMH ae od row 165 MR. MR. N'DIAYE: warden. WR. QM: That would make the determination? MR. N'DIAYE: determination to. MR. that day, do you know? MR. N'DIAYE: I don't know if I left or in -- : Okay. -- as the acting. One of those two. It would be one of those -- on the -? -- whoever was the acting She would have made the Who was the acting warden MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. MR. N'DIAYE: And it wouldn't be the MR. N'DIAYE: No. assistance. WR. GY: Now, what is the difference between, like, an executive assistance and an AW? MR. N'DIAYE: The associate warden is a GS-14, and the executive assistant is a 13. 167 He’s the executive MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmm. MR. -- so frequently, was there, like, a list that was set in place, that we would now consider these people, or would it be just the whole new -? MR. N'DIAYE: No. Because we would have to base it_on who was there. MR. : Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: Because of the turnover in the unit. + Mm-hmm. : All right. MR. MR. going to get into counts. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. : So, this is an email sent from you to Mr. It's the count slips for -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. -- it was sent on Saturday, August 10th, 2019, at 5:11 p.m. MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmm. MR. This shows, ZA is the Correct? MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Now, we're SHU. Right. So, this says, at 8:10, =— ROW OHMS fwrNP —— wr RPRRR oN Du ee od Wr Ow mre oe RR ae ee RR i) MRRP RRR RRR POoOwCmBADH ew Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 166 MR. MM: Okay. So, they are not - MR. N'DIAYE: _No. MR. -- but what, is that executive assistant just mainly to assist you in your functions? MR. N'DIAYE: He assists in the functions. I had also given him some other departments to monitor. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: other departments. MR. Okay. MR. : I just got a question. I don't know if you may be asked him about the backup list. Was there a backup list of names? MR. N'DIAYE: For? MR. I think, I think we did talk about it, but if - we did -- MR. : Okay. MR. : -- but -- MR. MR. -- when we talked about if HEMI was removed because the institution always has people coming and going -- Mm-hmm . So, they manage, also, those 168 it shows that the count for ZA was 73. Signed by M. and Ms. Noel. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. And it says, that count was done, it looks like, at -- MR. N'DIAYE: 12:01 a.m. MR. : -+ 12:01 a.m. we get the next one is at 3:00 a.m. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. It goes down to 72. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. At 5:00 a.m., there is 72. And here is the count, the institutional count, it shows 72 at - what time? - 12:00 a.m. Or no. This one is 3:00 a.m. MR. N'DIAYE: 3:00 a.m. MR. I don't know why this is all out of order. 5:00 a.m. So, at 12:00 a.m., this says 72. 72. MR. I think that was just an -- MR. : 72. MR. that you sent. MR. So, but as you know, as you notice, one of them said -. So, the count And then, -- attachment to that email EFTA00064352

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRRR we wre RR SD MmMYyrRe re Oo wc 169 slip said 73 for 12:00 a.m., over the institutional count. And as you see here, for 12:00 a.m., it said 72. MR. By the institution, you mean . : No. The institution. . N'DIAYE: It means the whole. . : MCC does a count -- . N'DIAYE: Yeah. : == and -- : Right. : -- its’ what the official The count. -- number show -- Yeah. Okay. -- the SHU, these count be the -. Actually, let you, you can answer my question. What is supposed to be the difference between what happens with the count slip, and what happens with the institutional count? So, I'm not answering your question. MR. N'DIAYE: So, what happens is, on the shift, you call the count, and the different 171 it in there, they say, it says 25, they tell me it’s a bad count. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: count again. WR. WM: So, the £1 is created based upon what inmates are listed within your system. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. The count slips are based upon how many inmates they actually count. MR. N'DIAYE: What they count. MR. And the purpose of that is what? Why are the inmates counting inmates, and why are they providing that number to control? MR. N'DIAYE: So, we make sure every inmate is in the institution. MR. The countability of the inmates. Correct? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. MR. Great. So, the - so, does that answer your question? MR. + Mm-hmm. MR. So, the next email is > Mm-hmm. So, they have to go back and RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr MRRP RRR Pow OAS Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 170 units call in the count to control center. MR. And how do they get that count number? MR. N'DIAYE: From counting. They have to go around and count. MR. ME: | Physically counting an inmate? . N'DIAYE: You have to -- Correct? -- physically count the 2. ME: And then, they take that total amount of inmates, and they call that into the control center? MR. N'DIAYE: They call that into the control. MR. QM: | And where does the control center get their numbers from? MR. N'DIAYE: This is what is called an El. Which is a print out of the number of inmates in each unit. MR. Right. MR. N'DIAYE: So, if an instance, for example, we look at BA unit. So, there is supposed to be 26 in there. If somebody calls 172 ~ N'DIAYE: sent about one hour later, at 6:13 p.m., on August 10th. It says, “Why did the count change from 73 to 72 between 12:00 a.m. and 3:00 a.m.?” MR. N'DIAYE: MR. response was to that? MR. N'DIAYE: I don’t. MR. —_ And then, this one is another one from to yourself. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. It says, “The 12:00 a.m. count slip reads 73, and the 12:00 a.m. -- MR. N'DIAYE: E1. MR. : -- El says 72.” MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. So, those kind of go together. Do you remember what your findings were there? MR. N'DIAYE: I don’t remember. Because typically what happens on the count, you are supposed to - the lieutenant is supposed to take one count at night, and then review documentation. So, I don’t know what happened with the discrepancy. Mm- hme . Do you remember what your EFTA00064353

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 173 MR. MM: =I mean, this isn’t really that relevant, because we noted Epstein was there. WR. QM: No. It's relevant for our investigation. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. WR. MY: 11 right. So, if you don't mind, just initialing and dating that, and then, we can explain to you why that is relevant. So, you don’t, though, recall? You didn't find out what actually happened? MR. N'DIAYE: I don't recall what the response is I gave. MR. ~~ No? And do you remember looking into it at all? . N'DIAYE: When was that sent? : That was the day -- When did he send it? : -+ that was the day of. The day of. The day Epstein was * N'DIAYE: * N'DIAYE: . N'DIAYE: I don't because it was just so much going on. WR. a. Yeah. MR. N'DIAYE: That I can't really remember 175 make their rounds. And I don’t recall if it was, they put it in the logbook, that they made rounds, but that in all actuality, it wasn't done. WR. QR: Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: So, that might have been something that came up afterwards. MR. : But you are not super -. You know, this, you don’t really know what happened or didn't happen? MR. N'DIAYE: That day. Because I mean, it happened that weekend, everything was moving, and then, by Monday -- WR. WM: Right. So -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- everything lese just changed. So -- WR. ME: -- but on the 10th or llth, you didn't hear -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- I didn't -- wR. QM: -- find out? MR. N'DIAYE: == hear anything about, recall anything about that. MR. a. But had you heard that they didn't at least conduct some of their rounds and counts? RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR OOD fwr mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 174 what, how I responded to them on that day. MR. =. Do you remember learning anything about the accuracy or inaccuracy of the counts, on the 9th and 10th? MR. N'DIAYE: What do you mean the accuracy and inaccuracy? WR. WM: Like, if the counts were actually accurate or not. . N'DIAYE: I don’t recall that. You don’t recall -- I can't think of that. -- finding out about _ N'DIAYE: No. . N'DTAYE: _No. : Did you recall, did you find out if the SHU counts and rounds were not conducted by the SHU on August 9th or 10th, 2019? By the SHU staff. K N'DIAYE: _If they did rounds or not? Correct. Did you find out if the SHU staff had conducted both 30- minutes rounds, as well as the institution counts on August 9th and 10th? MR. N'DIAYE: I don't know if it was after the fact that I was told that the Officer did MR. N'DIAYE: That they didn't? WR. MM: | That they did not. MR. N'DIAYE: It was - and I don’t want to use the word that it was just, you know, an assumption, you know, like, because one of them, I had asked to come up and speak with, but it was Thomas, and he wouldn't come up. YR. MMMM. And this was on the 10th in the morning? MR. N'DIAYE: This was on the 10th, when we got him up, because I wanted to speak with him because people were telling me he was distraught. R. SN: in-hnm. MR. N'DIAYE: So, I wanted to make sure he was all right. You know? And he just, he didn't want to come up and talk. WR. ME: | what are your thoughts of Thomas as an employee? MR. N'DIAYE: I’ve known Thomas a couple years. I never had any issues with him. You know, it was any, you know, like any other employee, you do something, I correct you on the spot, and that’s it. But I have never encountered him to do anything, known him not EFTA00064354

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 PRR RRR RR NDMP WNPRPOWOHDH SWwNP ae ee od WS Wr rs © Ww oc 177 to count, do his job, you know? MR. a. What about Ms. Tova Noel? MR. N'DIAYE: She was new. So, she had just gotten there. You know, she got the same spiel from me that everybody else does. You know? You are new. You can't do the things that somebody at 20, that has 20 years in it. They're not doing their job, you shouldn’t be following it. WR. QR: And did you -- MR. N'DIAYE: So -. MR. -- actually speak with her about that? MR. N'DIAYE: Oh, I do that in my (Indiscernible *02:09:22) class, when they first come in. WR. QM: Okay. So, that is something -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. everyone? MR. N'DIAYE: Oh, I said it clear as day. And same thing I would say in my ART class. Annual Refresher Training. MR. Because this is -- And I had -. -- you would have said to 179 WR. QM: «01 right. So, this is going to go back. This is just my little list that I wrote of exactly what happened, and then I'll read to you, but -- MR. N'DIAYE: _ Mm-hmem. MR. -- I just want just for our purposes, I'm going to just show you, and you can refer to them. On this one, at first, going to be the count on the 9th, that was conducted at -- MR. + 4:00 p.m. MR. -- is this 4:00 p.m. Is this the 4:00 p.m. or the 5:00 p.m. here? MR. N'DIAYE: No. This? MR. + 4:00 p.m. MR. 4:00 p.m. count. just signed off -- . N'DIAYE: No. There's There's no 4:00 p.m. : -- yeah, it’s the 5:00. . : 5:00. Sorry. . N'DIAYE: Yeah. It’s -- . : Yeah. . N'DIAYE: -- 12:00. 12:00. 3:00. And 5:00. RR ae ee RR i) MRRP RRR RRR POoOwCmBADH ew Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 178 MR. N'DIAYE: (Indiscernible *02:09:34). MR. -- one of her excuses, saying that 20 year guys, I'm following them, they are not doing it, so I'm not doing it. Is that something you clearly entrust -- MR. N'DIAYE: So, here’s my speech -- MR. : == to her? MR. N'DIAYE: -- my spiel I used to tell people. I said, go ahead and follow that 20 year guy, and you are on probation, guess what happens? He might get some time in the street. You're getting fired. MR. a. And are you confident that Ms. Noel would have heard that speech from you? MR. N'DIAYE: She heard the speech from me. MR. : Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. I'm confident. That's the speech I gave everybody. Same thing in the ART. : Okay. Yeah. Good enough. ~ N'DIAYE: _ N'DIAYE: So. 180 . | no. This is afternoon. . : Yeah. So, this is . A: 0)-- WR. MM: Al] right. Friday. Is -- (Indiscernible *02:10:41) > == 4:00 p.m. -- You told him about overnight. . : == count? . N'DIAYE: Oh, it’s a 4:00 p.m. : It’s a 4:00 p.m. . : Yeah. . N'DIAYE: Okay. WR. GM: | Then 4:00 p.m. there is the 8:00 p.m. : No, no. 4:00 p.m. 10:00. 4:00 p.m. 10:00 p.m. . | ae midnight. MR. : 4:00 p.m. 10:00 p.m. Midnight. | and 5:00. : 3:00. And 5:00. I'd say (Indiscernible count. Then MR. MR. So, EFTA00064355

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 181 these are basically the time period in question. Everywhere from 4:00 p.m. through the 5:00 a.m. count the next day, on August 9th and 10th. MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. MR. Here are the lieutenant logs. And these are the emails that, again, I'm going, just going over these just because, so I'm not blowing things out of thin air. These are the -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. were able to obtain. Mm-hmm -- yeah, emails that we So, this was from a Who was the ops lieutenant at that time. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. Fairly regularly. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. And during the morning watch. So, this one was sent, from her, on Saturday, August 10th, 2019, at 9:26 a.m. It says, these are the August 10th, 2019. Daily activity report. And then, we got the daily lieutenant’s log here. MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. 183 MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmm. MR. Is that -? I know she sent it out after the incident, and after, you know, everything happened, but do you think it was weird that she sent that one out at 9:26 a.m. versus prior to that 6:33 a.m., when her shift ends at 6:00 a.m.? MR. N'DIAYE: I mean -. MR. : She was relieved at 5:30 a.m. by Lieutenant . MR. N'DIAYE: That's what I'm saying. She wasn't at the -. When I got there, Lieutenant HBB was the lieutenant -- MR. Correct. MR. N'DIAYE: -- who contacted me regarding -. MR. gone by 5:30 a.m. MR. N'DIAYE: So, yeah. I don't know. If she left at 5:30 or whatever, and I don't know how they (Indiscernible *02:13:07). MR. Well, that’s when she was relieved. She didn't leave until after this was sent out at 9:26 a.m. MR. N'DIAYE: I don't recall her being in She was supposed to be RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR Oo OUD wr mre reo Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 182 MR. MM: § So, where would this -? This is just out of order. This should have been first. So, Friday, August 9th, 2019, she sends one at -. So, first, I want to ask this question. So, on Friday, August 9th, 2019, she sends one at 5:11 a.m. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. And Saturday, she sends it at August 10th, 2019, at 9:26 a.m. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. And on Sunday, August 11th, 2019, she sends it at 6:15 a.m. MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmn. MR. Now, reviewing all of the lieutenant logs that came out prior to that time, they are all sent out pretty much between 5:00 a.m. and 6:00 a.m. -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. : == by all the various -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. -- ops lieutenants. Do you find it odd that she didn't send this one out until 9:26 a.m., being that, I know Epstein was found at 6:33 a.m., but typically, they were sent out much earlier than that. 184 the institution around then. MR. She - after Epstein was found - she actually went into the SHU. She helped with feeding. And then, she went back, and she did some things on the computer. MR. N'DIAYE: I thought -- MR. : And she sent it. MR. N'DIAYE: -- I thought I relieved her, and she left. MR. At 5:30 a.m., she was relieved. She stuck around because she said she had work to do. After Epstein was found, she came to the SHU, and assisted , who also wasn’t working in the SHU, but was there because he was the Comtech guy. And, at the time, MJ was gone. Noel was there. But at some point, Noel left. MR. N'DIAYE: And I'm lookin I was under the impression, when me he had relieved her, and she left. MR. So, do you find that odd, then, that she was still there until -- MR. N'DIAYE: Until 9:30. MR. -- at least 9:30 a.m.? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. I didn't, I didn't -. at this, but had told EFTA00064356

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRRR we wre RR SD ee oll ood Wher © Wo 185 Yeah. WR. WM: This is the first you're hearing of this? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. Because when I was told she was gone. So, unless -- MR. a. Because you wanted to talk with her? MR. N'DIAYE: -- no. I mean, he relieved her. So, I guess, technically, when you relieve somebody, then it becomes your issue. So, I was talking to Lieutenant But I didn't want, you know, I assumed she was the one that -. But I heard she had left. I didn't know she had come back. WR. MM: | She allegedly did not come back. She allegedly was there -- MR. N'DIAYE: There. wR. QM: § -- the entire time. MR. N'DIAYE: So then, that is kind of odd, because usually, your log is completed before you leave. WR. | Right. MR. N'DIAYE: On your log, you will write on there, relieved by such and such. WR. ME: So, is that suspicious to 187 Can you rephrase your question, like, what are we saying? WR. QM: Yeah. I mean, I'm going all the way to -. I just ramped it up to 100 miles an hour. I'm just saying all the way to MR. N'DIAYE: I can't -- WR. QM: -- to probably, could you -. Was there any reason to believe that she could be potentially involved with this? MR. N'DIAYE: As far as doing harm to him? WR. QM: | Keeping his cell door open. And letting another cell door open for someone else. You know -- MR. N'DIAYE: I wouldn’t -- WR. QM: -- anything like that. MR. N'DIAYE: -- I wouldn't see that. wR. SR: No? MR. N'DIAYE: I couldn’t see that. No. MR. : No reason to believe it would go that far, just maybe insubordination is the highest that she goes? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. I would, you know, I wR. GM: She -- RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR Oo OUD wr mre reo Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 186 you at all? MR. N'DIAYE: Kind of. Yeah. But I'm curious as to why you didn't log it down something. MR. : Now, wh employee is ? MR. N'DIAYE: Had some issues with her. I mean, I don't want to -. You know, everything that is going on is an allegation. So, I don’t want to go speaking on allegations that I have sent up. MR. WM: «Was she a problem employee, then? MR. N'DIAYE: I had some issues. Yeah. WR. WM: | Any reason why she believed that she might be involved with Epstein and his death? MR. N'DIAYE: Oh, no. I wouldn’t put it as far as that. I mean, but it is just, I wouldn’t. And I don’t know -- MR. MMM: She's (Indiscernible *02:15:29) to tell. I mean -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- I mean -- MR. MB: 9 -- (indiscernible *02:15:29). MR. N'DIAYE: -- that’s why I went over -. 188 MR. N'DIAYE: -- she has the allegations up. I know you guys were seeing the allegations. So, I, yeah, but I wouldn’t go that far. But I can't -. MR. MR: Well, is she in a position to do something like that? MR. N'DIAYE: What? MR. MJ: To leave the door open, or something that’s egregious? . a. She does lieutenant R. N'DIAYE: -? What kind of Yeah. She’s the ops lieutenant. She is in position to do that. NT DIAYE: But remember, when you are going down range and the range door keys, you can't have both. Somebody would have to let her down there. VR. MY: Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: And those keys. Those keys Do you know if she was particularly friendly with either Noel or Thomas? MR. N'DIAYE: I don't know what their EFTA00064357

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rR CSCwWOmOANDMDS fWwNHP RPRRRR We WN Re RR SD ee ee od Se wWwNr Ow CO RPE RP RP RRR rE rm SOW SwMre re COW ON DW Sw wr “ ae ee od WS Wr rs © Ww oc relationship was. She was the shift lieutenant. So, I don’t know what relationships. Who she’s had (Indiscernible *02:16:48). MR. For the 8th, I just realized we might not have the daily log for it. MR. Fortunately, I brought backups of different things. So, I think I got MR. MR. there. WR. MR: I keep looking at this pile. I think those effing sons a bitches are working hard. MR. in there. MR. N'DIAYE: Jesus Christ. The 9th and the 10th is in I don’t think the 9th is Yeah. Just the 10th. Yeah. No, no. It's the second set. No, that’s the 10th. No, the dates are -- Can I say -? -- the following dates. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. 191 August 9th. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. watch. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: the 10th? MR. sent out on the 10th morning. MR. too previous day. MR. N'DIAYE: 9th. WR. WM: | They sent it out the day after. MR. N'DIAYE: Epstein is back. MR. So, see this one? This one is sent out on Sunday, August 11th, for the day prior, starting -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. Okay. This is at what time? This just, that says morning Ish. Yeah, but why is it saying So, it was, the email was Right? But when MR. MR. So, she was -. Her -- she included everything - -- shift -- everything from the Yeah, but this is August So -- RR ROW OHMS fwrNP —— wr RPRRR oN Du ee od Wwrerow mre oe RR ae ee RR i) MRRP RRR RRR POoOwCmBADH ew Mmmenmrn Ww Wr Sorry. MR. N'DIAYE: Can I see the time (Indiscernible *02:17:14)? MR. Just, I just want to confirm with that. MR. Of course. Okay. That's the August 9th. . Yeah. Okay. Great. So, those two. Yeah. That's the previous date we Yeah, yeah. MR. : All right. (Indiscernible *02:17:25) right now. All right. So, what did you want to see? MR. N'DIAYE: I wanted to see that 9:26 one Yeah. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. -- and this is what we were going to show you, is the count numbers, that's what we are getting at next. MR. N'DIAYE: Wait. Which is the one -? MR. So, this is from Friday, 192 MR. -- Saturday, August 10th. MR. N'DIAYE: -- no, I get that. So, she started. Her shift was morning watch on Friday. Okay? So, she goes to 12:00. is relieved by Lieutenant MR. : So, no, no. MR. N'DIAYE: No, this is -. be Thursday into Friday. MR. : Yes. MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. No. I -- MR. So then, it goes -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- yeah. See. I thought this was -- MR. -- into day watch. MR. N'DIAYE: -- the day of. Then you go to day watch, and it goes to evening watch. Now, what is the -? Which log is it for the day of? MR. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. And this is, we are going to get into. So, this one is the day before, August 9th, when [MM left, and we can look to see on here, as well, where it says -. So, if , MR. So, that is -- So, she This should So, this is the day of. > Mn-hmm. Okay. EFTA00064358

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rR CSCwWOmOANDMDS fWwNHP RPRRRR We WN Re RR SD ee ee od Se wWwNr Ow CO nm w RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP PRR RP RRP RR COND WMH a a ee ond We wWwrr Ow 193 we go to this 8:38 on the lieutenant’s log, it says that WM is pre-removed. Right here. 7 to pre-remove at 8:38 a.m.” MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. So -- MR. That is August 9th, 2019. So, we’re going to go all the way down to - The one thing, I guess -- MR. : So, the count -- MR. : -+ we want to look at is, here, we got this individual, (Phonetic Sp. *02:19:31). Who is on dry cell with staff in R&D watch. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. From the SHU. So, if you look at the count -. Where the heck is the -? MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. So, I just want to go back to clarify something with -- MR. —, Yup. WR. N'DIAYE: -- with Lieutenant [. So, we are saying this is at 9:23, she did it. Right? MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. MR. N'DIAYE: : 9:26. So - 9:26 -- She did it. -- this was on -- WR. WE: I don’t think you're right, bud. I think she’s just doing the 9th. The next day does the 10th. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. That's right. . | Okay. . : (Indiscernible *02:20:41) combined. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. : MR. N'DIAYE: confused about. MR. MR. MR. before. Yeah. Okay. -- that’s why I'm a little That’s what -- Yeah. No. She’s not -- + Because when she came -- -- she does the day Of the 9th -- And worked until -- =— ROW OHMS fwrNP —— wr RPRRR oN Du ee od Wr Ow mre oe RR ae ee RR i) MRRP RRR RRR POoOwCmBADH ew 194 MR. MM: The 10th morning. Saturday morning. MR. N'DIAYE: WR. MM: Correct. Like, three hours after Epstein was found. MR. N'DIAYE: And this is -- MR. (Indiscernible *02:20:03). MR. N'DIAYE: MR. -- this is when she sent it out -- Friday’s log. : Correct. MR. N'DIAYE: That that’s -. MR. But they - the same thing, though - they all seem to sending it out the day before. MR. N'DIAYE: The day before. And then, she sent the day before logs out on Saturday. Yeah. MR. MM: «She combined it. If you look through it, it has everything combined. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. MM: It goes from morning watch, day watch, evening watch, into -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. But I'm just -. That should have been done the day before. 196 WR. QR: -- 6:00 a.m., but got relieved at 5:30. So -- MR. N'DIAYE: That's right. MR. : == yeah. MR. N'DIAYE: The lieutenants were working from 10:00. 10:00 to 6:00. MR. Correct. Because the, we were told because of traffic issues -- MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. : == or something else. MR. N'DIAYE: And short -. Yeah. MR. So, what we want to, and I want to kind of reference here is, [i on dry cell, with SHU staff and R&D. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. : And the end of this shows 72. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. : So, on August 9th, 2019, at 11:59 a.m. - or August 10th, 2019, at 12:00 a.m. - there is supposed to be 72 inmates, according to this log that out. sent MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Right. There is supposed to only EFTA00064359

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm be 72 inmates there. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. WR. QR: Now, look at the shift for August 10th, when this person started their shift, there was 73. . N'DIAYE: So -- And the institutional . N'DIAYE: _-- right. -- show at 12:00 a.m. there were - or so, that looks like - so, there is -. Let's go. So, for ZA, there shows 75 at the 4:00 p.m. count. The 10:00 p.m. count, there shows 73. And then, at the midnight count, there it says 72. However, the count slips, if you recall -- MR. : -- where are the count slips? So, itis -- MR. :_ The counts. MR. : -- it says the SHU submitted a count slip for 73 at 12:00 a.m. Here you go. So, that is not the count. Oh, yeah. There. So, see? 12:00 a.m., they submit it. [IMM/Noe? submitted 73. WR. GR: -- keyed out. MR. N'DIAYE: What - yeah - what they should -- WR. QM: | Keyed out of the SHU. So, the institutional counts were reflecting -- MR. N'DIAYE: 73. wR. QM: -- 73. That is what the SHU continued reporting. 73. Because that is what - that’s what, according to the system, was supposed to be in there. But if they had physically -- MR. N'DIAYE: Counted. VR. GR: § -- counted -- . N'DIAYE: They would have known -- -- it would have -- -- he wasn’t there. -- been 72. Correct? Right. So, with this information, and I guess as the warden, would that suggest to you that they were not actually conducting their counts? MR. N'DIAYE: They weren't counting. then, there is no count slip here for the inmate that was on dry cell in R&D. * N'DIAYE: ~ NIDIAYE: And RR ROW OHM fwrKP R i) RR ae ee PRR RRR Dw wr ed ool mel ro wo mnrr =e Wh 198 Although, the institutional count says 72. Now, not , but the next one shows that, the next ops lieutenant shows that 73 is what is written in this. She went back and changed 72, the day before, with the 9:30, because it was determined -- MR. N'DIAYE: That he was on the outcount, and on -- MR. QM: -- oh, yeah. MR. N'DIAYE: -- (Indiscernible *02:22:57). MR. : And so, (I was never removed -. So, look at -. It shows it on this. “One SHU correction. dry cell.” So, at 12:35 a.m., and we do have right here. Looking back. Okay. So, this just says, this is what happened with him. He was found to have contraband, that he was providing to a visitor in the SHU, at approximately, like, I think 1:00 p.m. on August 9th. He was moved from the SHU to dry cell. And he was never -- MR. N'DIAYE: Keyed in. 200 WR. | Right. MR. N'DIAYE: There should have been a count slip for him over there. So, what should have happened was, the inmate - him - he should have been outcounted in R&D. And then, the R&D, you would have seen one. So, there was a count slip. Whoever is sitting and watching him should have did a count slip on him. And then, whoever his back up was should have done a count slip. MR. a. And this is, from my review of everything -- MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. WR. QM: -- this is what I found. I don’t want to put my words into mouth, but let me know if this makes sense to you. It says, “Count discrepancy on the August 9th, 2019. Per the daily activity report dated August 10th, 2019, and the attachment lieutenant log from August 9th, 2019.” that's what we are looking at here. MR. N'DIAYE: —_Mm-hmm. WR. WM: | “The day began with 77 inmates assigned to ZA." Or the SHU. “The 5:00 a.m. El institution count, respective ZA So, EFTA00064360

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRRR Ww Whe RR SD ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc 201 SHU count slips, eyes on count shows 77. At 8:38 a.m., inmate = is pre-removed from ZA for count, and taken off the lieutenant log. The accurate ZA SHU count moves down to 76. was removed from the institution and does not - and should not - appear on any counts at this time. At 3:15 p.m., inmate MM was placed on RA dry cell from ZA, which moves the accurate ZA count down to 75 on the lieutenant log. The 4:00 p.m. El shows a total of 76 inmates assigned to ZA.” With one in attorney conference, which was Epstein. “This indicates that was not keyed out of the SHU, and keyed into RA. The ZA eyes on count slip shows 75. Inaccurate. It should have reflected 74 because, although there were 75 inmates assigned to the SHU, Epstein was in attorney conference. There were no inmates assigned to RA on the E1 institutional count, and there was no count slip for RA, eyes on count.” This is where the problem begins. MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmm. “At 6:34 p.m., inmate 203 WR. BM: -- now, 1 did foreign language -- I don’t understand -- -- should be done. -- the fuck are you talking * N'DIAYE: . HR: Yeah, yeah, yeah. . N'DIAYE: — Huh. This is -- : All these initials, and this, and that. MR. N'DIAYE: -- but the count -- MR. So, which is interesting is all of these are, as you notice, crossed off. MR. N'DIAYE: -- right. MR. These two are not crossed off. This one says 9S + 1. This one says 73 + 1. The question had been, when did this happen? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. When did they put these plus ones, or why weren’t they crossed out? MR. N'DIAYE: But you can't do a-. This PRR RR Se ee a RPRRR COND mreNyre rmrROow mrer WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR OOD fwr mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 202 Hemingway is moved to ZA, and brings it down to 74. 6:47 p.m., inmate |] (Phonetic Sp. *02:26:10) is moved from ZA to ES, bringing it down to 73. At 8:21 p.m., Felix (Phonetic Sp. *02:26:15) and William is moved to ZA, to suicide watch, bringing the accurate count down to 71. At 8:28 p.m., inmate Garcia Pina (Phonetic Sp. *02:26:23) is moved from K into ZA, bringing the accurate count up to 72. The 10:00 p.m. E1 shows a total of 73 inmates assigned to the ZA, but zero inmates assigned to RA. The ZA eyes on count slip shows 73." Oh, this is another one. I don’t think we brought this. “One of the counts actually shows 73 plus one.” Do we have that in there? MR. : The 10:00 p.m. MR. Okay. MR. : I admire your guys’ (Indiscernible *02:26:48). MR. Yeah. You would also -. This is all probably -- MR. i (Indiscernible *02:26:52). MR. : -- all Chinese to you. MR. N'DIAYE: That's how our count slips - 204 is an inaccurate count slip. Because you are supposed to have the accurate count. You can't do -. If this is 73 +1, then you should have 74 on there. MR. Or, in this case, it should be 73 minus one because the accurate count was actually 72. MR. N'DIAYE: No, but you wouldn't write minus one on there. You would write the actual count on there. Right. So -- : Okay. -- either it was 72 or 74. Right. But there is no -- All right. Guys, I'm going to ~ N'DIAYE: ~ N'DIAYE: ~ N'DIAYE: . N'DIAYE: -- such thing as -- -- splash water on my face . N'DIAYE: thing -- MR. BM: You guys are getting ready to kill me. -- okay. There is no such EFTA00064361

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RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRRR we wre RR SD ae ee od WS Wr rs © Ww oc 205 MR. N'DIAYE: -- there is no such thing as plus one on the -- MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. You’re not allowed to ghost count. Correct? MR. N'DIAYE: No. No. There should have been an outcount done. So, and this should have been caught, whoever the shift lieutenant was, because they have to, you know, on each shift, conduct a count, and review the count slips. WR. QM: «Does this tell you anything, though, that these were crossed off, and these weren't? MR. N'DIAYE: why -- WR. QM: Do you think that they were replaced at a later date, or -? MR. N'DIAYE: I mean, it gives the appearance. Because at first, I would want to know, why you cross out. Why these -- MR. a. They cross out because, as things come in -- MR. N'DIAYE: No. Right. -- on that. Yeah. Unless, I don't know 207 his consistent way of checking it out. But if this is all_on that shift -. WR. QM: | But point being, you will agree, this indicates that, from 4:00 p.m. on, the counts were not conducted. Correct? MR. N'DIAYE: No. They weren't done right. MR. : MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. Okay. to really go into too much -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. -- detail with that. Is this the first that you are seeing this? . N'DIAYE: Yeah. I haven’t seen that . : Okay. This was still on the counts? Nt DIAVE: No. Now, we're going to move on because the warden agrees that there is not really reason to really dig further, because he agrees this clearly shows that the counts were not conducted in the SHU, from a certain time on. The SHU counts? Then we don't need RR ROW OHMS fwrNP —— wr RPRRR oN Du ee od Wwrerow mr oe RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr MRRP RRR Pow OAS Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 206 MR. -- you check it off. MR. N'DIAYE: So, that’s what I want to know. Like, whose habit is this? Like, okay, I'm looking at -. MR. So, basically, I think it’s standard practice, as a control officer? MR. N'DIAYE: No. I mean, I’ve worked control, and what I would do is, I would do the check off, if I'm doing this. I’ve never -. And that’s people’s style. MR. a: Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: That might be their style. So, I just want to know - MR. This one is || (Phonetic Sp. *02:28:46), I believe. . N'DIAYE: Huh? So then -- . : This one. . N'DIAYE: -- then that’s how [J does it. So, my question is then, why isn't this done -- MR. : Right. MR. N'DIAYE: -- like that. I mean, this, if MMM does it like that, then that's 208 Do you want to ask about the ~ N'DIAYE: What about it? Who’ s responsible? : So, — -. Oh, can you just - sorry - would you mind signing, initialing and just dating? If actually removed from the SHU -- MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. MR. -- and placed onto R, you know, RA dry cell, or R&D dry cell, oh, RA and R&D are interchangeable. Correct? MR. N'DIAYE: RA -- WR. QR: Because RA for - RA, I believe, is what it shows in the count slip, but it stands for the R&D -- MR. N'DIAYE: That's the Ri MR. -- right? MR. N'DIAYE: -- area. I believe. Yeah. MR. So, if he’s actually moved there around the 3:00 p.m., on August 9th, 2019, who would have been responsible for keying him out of the SHU, and placing him into the RA, so that the count would be accurately reflected? was EFTA00064362

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RR SCwWOnHtDUN SwWwrP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 209 MR. N'DIAYE: SHU would have notified control center, that we are moving one over to R&D. WR. QM: | And by that notification, do they also say, can you please key him out, and into? Or is that just automatically done by control? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, the notification is made to control that inmate such and such is being placed on dry cell in R&D. And then, you key the inmate to that area. MR. : Sure. MR. : So, I'll give you a quick background. It looks like a -- WR. WB: Who is that? MR. N'DIAYE: Right. -- witnessed this. (Indiscernible IR. N' 'DIAVE: Uh-huh. WR. MBB: And he wrote up the shot. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. WR. MM: And he called the lieutenant. He requested the lieutenant. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. 211 figure out why these things went wrong. So, this is -. Let me just make sure, before we move on, that I got everything. All right? So, first, before we get into rounds, when a lieutenant conducts a round in the SHU -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. WR. MM: -- are they required to conduct a round of the inmates going up and down the different tiers, or does the round consist of just checking in with the officers to make sure everything is okay? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, you check the officer to make sure they are all right, and you check the documentation. So, you check, you know, you edit, you would have to review the post orders also. To state what their duties are. I mean, all of us had different, you know, I was a lieutenant, so it was different things you did, but I always checked the 292s, to make sure, you know, the officers checked off, you know, if the person ate or not. Any medical. I would check to see if medical came up. So, it would factor and depend on what shift you went on. You know, the day shift, the inmates are up, so you're going, you know, you can go wont nfwnrP 10 MMM NR NYRR RRP RRP RRP RR AWN OWSOAUDH EWN Wey DHfwrP PRR RRP RRP RRR WeonyDwVfwrNro mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 210 WR. QR: And it looks like he requested the lieutenant, but he never notified control -- MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. WR. QR: -- that an inmate was being moved. Right? If - and I'm (Indiscernible *02:31:20). MR. : Well, no, no, no, no. I wouldn’t (Indiscernible *02:31:21) -- MR. He doesn't recall -- MR. -- I wouldn’t -. MR. N'DIAYE: But then, while the counts are going on, there is somebody in R&D. So, whoever is sitting in R&D should know that I need to do a count slip because I have an inmate down there. WR. MJ: Is this where somebody disappears, that we're looking for? MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. Again, I told you, this was more of an administrative thing. Just to say what does the warden, you know, and the boss of this place, what is his take on these matters? Because as you have gathered, a lot of things went wrong this day. So, we need to 212 Evening shift, you can see what’s going on. The midnight shift, they’re sleeping. But you are definitely checking a 30-minute log, to see if the inmates are doing their 30-minute checks. And, you know, just documentation. MR. Now, as the warden, did you expect your lieutenants, though, to go down range when they were doing their lieutenant visits in the SHU? Their rounds. And this is specifically when they are, like, signing off on the different, like, on, as you can see, this is what I'm going to be showing you. These are round sheets that -- i N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. : == you sent to Mr. = ‘where it shows the different lieutenants signed on/off that they did their round. MR. N'DIAYE: around. But what does -- MR. So, what does that -? MR. N'DIAYE: -- what the lieutenants are checking for is accuracy of the officer’s rounds. R. PE: Okay. This is -. EFTA00064363

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RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRRR Ww Whe RR SD ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc 213 MR. N'DIAYE: So, what they are checking is, okay, were the 30-minute infrequent checks done? Now, if there is an easy, that they are not being done, you know, so, you know, then it needs to be annotated and said, okay, this is what the issue was. But if they are signing it, they are kind of acknowledging that, you know, that the time that the round will put down, that they were down. MR. a. Now, what would be -? This is the round, it looks lie for 8/8. Can you think of a reason why these wouldn't be done? But they would be signed off on right here? MR. N'DIAYE: Let me see. So, if a lieutenant made rounds and saw this thing was empty like this, then it is a problem. WR. TO Because you have this 8/8. And then, there is zero rounds showing that they were conducted, but this lieutenant signed it. MR. N'DIAYE: That's a problem. WR. MMM: «The same thing. We go, this whole thing. So, this whole shift looks like they didn't even sign it until here. On 215 : So, this is just wrong? MR. N'DIAYE: -- yeah. This is wrong. WR. QM: | Should have this lieutenant signed that? MR. N'DIAYE: No. He should have signed it. They should have put something -- WR. QR: Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: -- listed as some discrepancy, why the checks weren’t done. WR. a. And on these, whereas it looks like, this lieutenant is signing, it looks like probably because these are done. Do you think that is the reason why this individual hadn't signed these? Because these weren't correct? MR. N'DIAYE: on that. WR. QM: Because it says -- MR. N'DIAYE: I can't. WR. QM: -- reviewed by morning watch lieutenant. Where they do that, well, that lieutenant does start signing it here, where they are now filled out. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. Probably. I can't speculate RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR OOD fwr mre reo mrr = Wr 214 8/8. MR. N'DIAYE: Wait. off the logbook, or -? MR. : This is what you sent to Did you print these Mr. . MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. WM: 0n Saturday, August 10th, at 6:21 p.m. MR. N'DIAYE: Now, the only other thing I can think of, and when I had gathered something, I might have said, because the checks are done at, like -. No, these are 30- minute checks, so they -- MR. CO This is also -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- you know, these are -- MR. MM: -- this is the day, this is two days before Epstein was found. MR. N'DIAYE: -- no, this is -. No. I was thinking of the log. The log did it electronic. But this, no. This -- WR. GM: «We have the electronic version. . N'DIAYE: _-- yeah. This is -- . Which one? . N'DIAYE: -- no, this is -. That : For the same date. So, this looks - hey, I . N'DIAYE: don't know who it was - but this looks (Indiscernible *02:36:10) worked it. WR. QR: Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: Let me see how those 30- minute. That's the same one. I don't know who it was. Who it was. VR. SM: Okay. (Indiscernible *02:36:19). but whomever it was during those shift. then, we get into, it looks like, (Indiscernible *02:36:30) still. Here is the 8/9. Where -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. WR. MY: -- it’s signed off, signed off, until 2:00 p.m. MR. N'DIAYE: That's a problem. WR. WM: | After that, no sign off. Same thing. if N'DIAYE: So, that was Certainly go look, And And these. Yeah. That’s just when I think i left his shift, or somewhere around that time. So - wR. a: ‘The point of this, if I may EFTA00064364

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee oe od eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm ask, is we got a miscount, right? MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. We're not -- MR. : This is -- MR. -- we've moved on from counts. Now we're on rounds. MR. Okay. Now, counts. The significance of the counts is, at some point, disappears? WR. —. No. The significance of the counts is that, if inmates - or if the staff members aren’t conducting counts and - counts are to the accountability of the inmates, to make sure everybody is there. Rounds -- . -- are basically to make sure everyone is alive and breathing. Is that correct, sir? MR. N'DIAYE: You are right. Counts are accountability, and then, the 30-minute checks are basically safety checks. MR. a: So, the point of these questioning is, it looks like at - what we just 219 you now, since I'm making that explanation - if they were conducting their rounds, would that be a way to at least try to help ensure that inmates such as Epstein were alive and well? I know it’s not going to prevent it in every case, but is that part of the reason, to make sure that, if they are conducting a round, you are checking to see if they are alive, and they are breathing. MR. N'DIAYE: It is true, but I mean, and because I mean, an inmate can, you know, you can do your 30-minute rounds, and if they want to do their harm to themselves, they are going to do it. WR. QM: Right. And that goes into play with why -- WR. MBM: They just -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. WR. WR: -- they just look, they do rounds by looking in their cell. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. WR. WB: So, if you want to -- MR. N'DIAYE: To check. WR. MRM: -- do harm, you just wait until they go passed your cell. RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr MRRP RRR Pow OAS 218 finished was counts - we have shown that the staff members were not conducting their counts. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. MM: Right. Because that is why you have 72 when it should be -- MR. : Now we are doing rounds. :__-- (Indiscernible *02:37:41). MR. : To find out were the staff members conducting their rounds. MR. : Got it. MR. And again, we have, in this case, a very high-profile inmate that was deceased. Became deceased at some point. And they think -- : And -- -- plus it’s whether they -- . -- yeah, it -- : == noticed on their rounds uy was deceased. MR. —. -- if they were conducting -- MR. : Or-. MR. -- rounds at all. And if they were conducting rounds, would that be - and this is a question to you, like, we'll ask 220 MR. N'DIAYE: Right. And then, you kind of figure out the timing of the route. But the fact remains, if you are not showing on the form that you did your rounds, then that’s a problem. WR. QM: «So, when you are looking at these rounds that you sent Mr. IM, are you finding problems because they are not completed correctly? You know, what we just looked through. In fact, you know, these are August 10th. (Indiscernible *02:39:09), they're not signed off. There's blocks that are not filled in. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Yeah. Looking at them now? Right. MR. N'DIAYE: What is the question? MR. Well, does it show you that, at least this paperwork doesn't appear to be filled out correctly? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. MR. And that is for the 8th, as well? MR. N'DIAYE: MR. MR. Right. Okay. So, that was -- : And that is something, it was EFTA00064365

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRRR we wre RR SD ae ee od WS Wr rs © Ww oc your job to pass that on to I? . N'DIAYE: No. He requested -- No, no, no, no. -- the information. This is just to show that " N'DIAYE: . N'DIAYE: Yeah. -- what the round sheets that the warden sent to the regional director were these rounds. So, it's just a matter of, hey, do you know if these rounds were -? It has nothing to do with his, you know, if he did it right or not. It's, what his staff members Right. -- doing it right. . And who was responsible to make sure the round sheets are done correctly? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, the staff working up there are responsible. And then, the supervisor is supposed to ensure that they are doing it. WR. QM: And what is this? This 223 WR. QM: Okay. So, this goes with MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. So, all to this. This is something else that we asked for the BOP to print out for us, and this one specifically one we asked. When you send us the cell searches that were conducted on 8/9/2019 -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. -- we got back one. By Mr. . MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. MR. It say that it was conducted at 12:36 p.m. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. On 8/9/2019. MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmm. MR. Is that a problem? That only one cell search was conducted in the SHU? According to, at least according to TruScope. MR. N'DIAYE: Because I believe the post orders state it is supposed to be - and don't quote me on it -- MR. log you Mm-hinm . RR ROW OHMS fwrNP —— wr RPRRR oN Du ee od Wwrerow mr oe RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr MRRP RRR Pow OAS Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 222 was also attached. What is that right there, that we are looking at? MR. N'DIAYE: Hmm. MR. TruScope logs? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. This looks like TruScope. This looks like the log. And so, like, if they are doing what areas they search. MR. a. And these are searches? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. These looks like searches. MR. : Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: Let me see that. Search. Did the areas. Visiting. Strip room. Recreation area. Yeah. These are -- MR. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: -- these are search areas. MR. Does it show anywhere in there that there was any cells that were searched, or are they just all, like, common areas? MR. N'DIAYE: No. They searched it. how -. What is this? Nine South. SHU. Completed all. These are, these looks like everything they have done in there. The fire and safety checks. This is - it looks like the 224 MR. N'DIAYE: -- you have to look at the post orders - but they state, I think five a shift. A minimum of five. MR. : It's five, I believe -- MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. -- for the night watch. The day watch, I believe, is more. And the morning -- MR. | a supposed to do five -- : == watch is just Look MR. (Indiscernible *02:41:59). MR. : -- cell searches? MR. N'DIAYE: No, no. Each shift is a minimum of five. MR. : I don’t think -- MR. N'DIAYE: And then -- MR. -- that includes that morning watch, though -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- the morning watch is -- MR. : -- because there’s -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- area. MR. : = right. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. You are -- MR. Common areas. MR. N'DIAYE: -- picking the common area. EFTA00064366

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRRR Ww Whe RRR oman 225 WR. MMM: So, let me get this clear. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. You are supposed to do five cell shifts, five cell searches per shift? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. That is -. WR. MM: =A11 right. And in this case, there is only an indication that they did one? . N'DIAYE: One. Right? : One the whole day. One the day whole. Not per shift. . N'DIAYE: The whole day. . HE okay. . N'DIAYE: No. WR. WEB: -- to say why aren't you doing those? I was going to use the F word. Why aren't you doing all the cell shifts? MR. =. Well, this is, this is my question to the warden is, is that a problem, that there was only one logged into TruScope? MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. It is a problem. MR. Does that indicate that the cells were not being searched, to you? Or that they just weren't logging them in? MR. N'DIAYE: And again, whoever was Now, whose job is it -- 227 days when the guys are going out to take a shower, you might go out and do that. MR. a. So, with your suggestion that computers could be down and things like that, as you can see from the email attachment that you said, there are certainly plenty of searches that were entered in there -- MR. N'DIAYE: Oh. WR. GM: -- but there is only one cell search. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. And so, I would assume, would that indicate that the computers are actually up and running? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. the same day? MR. MR. N'DIAYE: *02:43:42). MR. : -+ yeah, this should be 8/10, and 8/9 and 8/10. MR. N'DIAYE: 8/9 -- MR. I would think. MR. N'DIAYE: -- reg number. Reg number. MR. It shows the dates here. So, this one, this is What are you looking -- That could be (Indiscernible RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR COND mreNyre rmrROow mrer WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR OOD fwr mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 226 working that day, you’re going to have to ask them. I mean -- MR. MR. N'DIAYE: And we have. -- looking at -- MR. And it was just -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- looking on paper, I mean, it shows you didn't, you didn't conduct your searches. MR. : Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: I mean, now, there might have been a reason where the person said, okay, the computers were down or whatever, but it is highly unlikely for -. WR. HB: So, but you are literally going into a cell and search it? Does that mean -- MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah, yeah. WR. WE: -- you throw over the mattresses, the whole thing? MR. N'DIAYE: No. You pull them out. look at -- WR. WB: Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: -- look and check the lockers. You check under their stuff. You know, and you typically do it, like on certain 228 You I just can't see them. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. Change base. This is asearch one. This is the log. MR. Okay. So, problematic, in your opinion? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. It is. MR. All right. So, not only searching them, but is it equally as important to actually log it in, as well, so that we know whether things are being searched? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. You should log it. MR. All right. Now, this, this comes to the kind of question on this. When Epstein was found, are you aware that he was in a cell that didn't coincide with what his inmate history quarters, and what the BOP database said, where he should have been? He was in the wrong cell. MR. N'DIAYE: I did hear, afterwards, that there were some issues with Sentry and the way they keyed into the cells. MR. All right. And what did you hear? MR. N'DIAYE: I think, just that the cell, the way the inmates were being keyed in was Yeah. EFTA00064367

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRRR we wre RR SD ee oll ood Wher © Wo off, it didn't match this cell. WR. | Right. MR. N'DIAYE: That. WR. WM: So, yeah, his assigned cell within the BOP database was not where he was located -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hme. WR. MM: -- in person. At least when he was found on August 10th, 2019. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. WR. WEB: Now, is that something that is - I should shut up, right? aa No, no. MR. N'DIAYE: Go ahead. WR. WE: Now, is that something that goes on up to you? Is that your responsibility to see where guys are being celled? MR. N'DIAYE: No. But I mean -- WR. QM: Yeah. Most of my questions to him isn’t that -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. WR. QM: -- it’s his responsibility, it’s whose responsibility was it? WR. MB: Okay. cord didn't reach the plug. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. WR. MM: So, they had to move him to a different cell. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. WR. GM: «So, from July 30th to August 10th, he was in the incorrectly assigned cell. No one ever caught that. No one ever, you know, and my thought being is, well, if they are doing their cell searches -- . N'DIAYE: Oh, I thought you meant -- : == wouldn’t -. -- the cell didn't match up I'm good. Got it. ~ N'DIAYE: . No, no, they -- . N'DIAYE: -- (Indiscernible -- they logged him into the cell that he was placed in, coming out of psychological observation. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. WR. QM: On the 30th. Then, they physically moved him to a different cell. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. wR. «On the 30th. Because his RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr MRRP RRR Pow OAS mmr =e Wh 25 230 MR. N'DIAYE: And then -. MR. MM: So, who should have made sure that Epstein’s cell, in the BOP database, matched where he was physically located? Because obviously, people get a hold of the information that he wasn’t in his assigned cell. You know, that is just more reason to people not trusting the government. So, we are just trying to figure out -. MR. N'DIAYE: Well, and this is not a problem limited to one person. It is a problem - and I think it is a Bureau-wide problem, as far as specific keying in cells. I don’t think this was done in a malicious -. MR. MM: | So, what happened here, our investigation shows is that when he came back from -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. : -- from suicide, or psychological observation, he was placed into the cel] that it shows on July 30th, on this form. However, because his - is it CPAP (Phonetic Sp. *02:46:24)? MR. : CPAP. . : His CPAP machine, the 232 CPAP machine wasn’t, the cord didn't reach. What is a CPAP machine? . It’s the snore -. It’s to help you breathe when you are sleeping. . N'DIAYE: = Mm-hmm. And he needed a CPAP machine? Yes, sir. For the snoring. : So -- Don’t call me sir. Please. All_right? You're reminding me. And so, no one ever went back into the system from, all the way from the 30th up to August 10th, and made that correction. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. [: Who was responsible for that? MR. N'DIAYE: So, whoever made the cell change should have contacted contro] center. MR. QM: «And is the control center that actually made the change, not the individuals in SHU, or the SHU lieutenant? MR. N'DIAYE: No. The -- MR. MM: | Because my understanding ~ N'DIAYE: EFTA00064368

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 233 it would have been the SHU lieutenant or the OIC. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. where were the -. said they are. MR. N'DIAYE: So, you have to, you would have to call control center to make that change. WR. WE: Okay. So, who should have called the control center? MR. N'DIAYE: Whoever made the change in Sentry. Because I - and then, don’t quote me if I'm wrong - because I don’t believe SHU staff have control over keying where an inmate is in. WR. QM: «Yeah. No. I thought the OIC might, or the that the SHU -- MR. N'DIAYE: No, because -- MR. -- lieutenant would. MR. N'DIAYE: -- in that case, beds would be really messed up. MR. —, Right, right, right. MR. N'DIAYE: So, the control center is a centralized area. Bed changes? To verify their cellmates Wherever the BOP databases 235 searches? Would that be caught, if they were doing searches? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, if you are doing a cell search, all you are going to do is put down the cell number, and the individual in it. It wouldn’t -. You wouldn't necessarily be able to find out if it is the correct room. . : Okay. . N'DIAYE: And the correct bed in All right. But, you know -. So, in this instance, then, and I'l] shut up so I can actually let you answer, who -- MR. : I have the same problem. MR. -- who is it that should have notified control center to make this change? It sounds like you said whoever physically moved him, at the time? MR. N'DIAYE: So, what happens is, whoever physically moved him should have said, okay, this is where, you know, you are, this is where we are moving him. And then, you let the - typically - the OIC know, and then, they will * N'DIAYE: RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR OOD fwr mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 234 MR. : Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: So, a call should have been made down to control, saying, hey, this is where he’s being keyed to, and this is what -. MR. a. And wiho should have made that call? MR. N'DIAYE: Whoever made the change. Whoever switched him. MR. And my understanding is that the OIC and the SHU lieutenant were supposed to review cell assignments, to make sure inmates were in their assigned cells, at Jeast on a periodical basis. Is that correct? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. You do a, what we call a bed book check, to make sure. Because your board, you know, when you are in the unit, you have a board up there, and you just match where everyone is at. a: happen? MR. N'DIAYE: There is no set policy, but as a good practice, you know, you kind of want to check what your open cells are, where, you know, where individuals are. And should it also be checked if they were doing cell And how often should that 236 call down to control center. And if that didn't -. : Can I speak to my client for a . N'DIAYE: Yeah. : Sure. Mm-hmm . : Do you want me -- Yeah. -- do you want me to push ~ N'DIAYE: ~ N'DIAYE: pause? MR. N'DIAYE: wR. a: the other -. MR. Okay. MR. Sure. Okay. It’s 4:46 .m., and this is Senior Special Agent —, and I'm pushing pause. (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter went off the record and back on the record). MR. The recorder is back on. It is 4:53 p.m., after a short break. And I remind you, sir, you are still under oath. MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. WR. MM: 1] right. So, we No. Yeah, no. I'll take him to EFTA00064369

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee oe od eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 237 stopped with the, we were talking about who was responsible for making sure Mr. Epstein was logged into the correct cell within the -- MR. N'DIAYE: Question. MR. -- BOP database system. MR. N'DIAYE: Were there other cells that were wrong? MR. : Do you know that, [? MR. : Not -. We don’t know if -. This, we know only because we checked this. MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. So, I mean, everything else could have been right, and that could have been a -- MR. No. Well, we found out, this is the reason was because, again, he was placed into that cell, and then moved because of the CPAP machine. MR. N'DIAYE: _No. MR. Well, our question was -- MR. N'DIAYE: == you know, wondering if it is a systematic, or an individual problem. MR. : Correct. MR. N'DIAYE: That's why I was just curious. wR. Yeah. 239 WR. QM: -- whether there’s a guy in there. Well, whatever number he’s in, or he’s not in, he's still in his cell. MR. No. Correct. MR. You know? MR. But because we are doing this deep dive review -- MR. Okay. MR. different I was -- And that’s I gotcha. -- it’s showing these ou know -- MR. Got it. Okay. MR. -- and again, this is, this is one of those things -- MR. You're just being extra careful. Yeah. It’s (Indiscernible *02:52:14). MR. -- and not like (Indiscernible *02:52:15). Yeah. We just have to, we have to address the fact that -- MR. He wasn’t in the right cell. MR. -- Mr. Epstein wasn’t in the cell that_he was assigned to. MR. : Okay. I mean, it's not just that. Someone (Indiscernible *02:52:22) that he said, oh, he doesn't have a roommate, and, RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr MRRP RRR Pow OAS Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 238 something that we should probably -. MR. MB: Well, and my question is, does that have any effect on count? I mean, they still should be able to look in the cells if there was a (Indiscernible *02:51:28). MR. N'DIAYE: Well, when -- MR. Well, the problem comes in, again, I think is the credibility of, hey, now we have Epstein, who was found in a cell, and it’s not his assigned cell. So, that just, you know -- MR. | I'm saying -- MR. : -+ the media says all of these things that went wrong. One being -- I've had that. : -+ wait, he’s not even in the right cell. Well, how did that happen, and who was responsible? MR. Okay. Now, so, my question is, does it make any difference? I mean, if they are supposed to do the count, the count is you look in the cell, and see -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. 240 you know, by the way, we also counted the wrong number of prisoners. Right. That’s a lot of mistakes. . Right. And we haven’t even gotten involved. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. As I'm sure you know. But -- Right. -- $0, after the person who noved him didn't contact and have this changed, how would have, then, how would we, then, how would have anyone found out that he was in the wrong cell? What processes are in place to ensure that where they are matches up with the actual database? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, I guess if they were : You said bed book counts? MR. N'DIAYE: -- yeah. Usually, you could do, you do your bed book counts, to ensure, you know, that every inmate is in the cell that they are supposed to be. When you are updating your accountability board, you would look and EFTA00064370

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 241 see, okay, you got him here, where is he at? And then, match it up with, you know, with Sentry. WR. QM: «And who would be doing those things? MR. N'DIAYE: The staff working up there in SHU. WR. MMM: «Is the lieutenant, the SHU lieutenant, at all involved, as far as you know, in making sure that this is all accurate? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, he was spearheading it to make sure everything was -- WR. QR: He was the supervisor. MR. N'DIAYE: -- was right. Yeah. He was the supervisor. But going in and saying, okay, let's, did this happen? Have we done this? And have we done that? MR. : Okay. MR. : And -. Okay. Just to make me clear, somebody dropped the ball as to whether or not he should have a, he had a roommate. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. WR. MM: Okay. And somebody dropped the ball as to whether he was in the right cell. 243 Epstein was housed with two other inmates during his assignment in SHU. Sentry does not reflect this information accurately. Inmate Epstein was found within cell 220, that Sentry never reflects him being housed within that cell at any time.” But to answer your question, the first sentence says that there is significant -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Okay. : -- discrepancies. MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmm. MR. The way that I read that is, overall, whether they are referring to specifically Epstein -- MR. N'DIAYE: Epstein. MR. -- that, I am not able to determine -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. -- based upon that sentence, but it does sound like, overall, that they had some discrepancies. So, Lieutenant would have supervised it, but it’s really the staff that would be responsible for doing these bed book counts, and making sure assignments are -- Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR OOD fwr mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. MMM: Okay. And then, somebody would have dropped the ball as to either, dropped the ball or they maliciously didn't find out that he wasn't on the count. They had said we did a count, but they didn't notice that, or didn't - that he wasn’t breathing, you know what I mean? MR. N'DIAYE: wR. a: Right. Okay. That starts to be a So, MEE just pointed out to me. On the after-action review -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm., MR. : == they did review this. MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmm., MR. And it says that, according to their review -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. : -+ this is not my review. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. wR. SR: or review. “Significant discrepancies exist within Sentry regarding cell quarters assignments.” QRT. QTR. “Although it is well documented, inmate 244 He did it right there WR. MM: -- the inmates are in their assigned -? MR. N'DIAYE: -- and then, whoever is moving an inmate from a cell to a cell, you make the notification. MR. And is it surprising to you that almost two weeks later, that wasn’t caught? MR. N'DIAYE: where? MR. : From -. He was placed into the cell on July 30th, 2019. He's found August 10th, 2019. That entire time, it was never caught that he was not -- MR. N'DIAYE: In the right cell. MR. -- locked in the right MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. At two weeks later from cell. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. Is that a significant amount of time that went by without catching that? MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Without catching it. It is. Now, is that, you know, EFTA00064371

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 245 all staff that was in there, or is it, like, really -? MR. N'DIAYE: And again, and you probably have to speak to the captain who was responsible for doing the checks, and doing the count. WR. QM: So, would the captain have some responsibility on this, too? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, did the captain is in charge of correctional services. So, that is the unit he is over. MR. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: So, he has overall responsibility to make sure, you know, in conjunction with the lieutenant, that the unit is running the way it is supposed to run. MR. a. And what should have the captain done in order to make sure that that was accurate? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, now, there is different ways of finding out if stuff is accurate. Like, you have the perpetual audit system. Where they are responsible - the lieutenants - are responsible to conduct perpetual audits. So, you can find out through 247 MR. N'DIAYE: -- you do your perpetual audits, and then you catch it, and say, oh, wow. We did an audit. And this is wrong. And then, you come up with the corrective action to fix it. WR. QM: So, that’s how the captain could have determined, I guess -- MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. -- but how, in those -- MR. N'DIAYE: The captain would find out. MR. -- ten or 11 days, how would have that been caught? MR. N'DIAYE: Again, you would have to see your inmate accountability board. MR. > Mm-hmm, MR. N'DIAYE: You know, are you matching Sentry, if you are pulling off Sentry and matching it_with what is on the board. MR. But - and I apologize that I'm beating -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. -- a dead horse here, but, like, who does that? MR. N'DIAYE: Again, I don't know who, you know, who the lieutenant assigned it to, who a CWO HUDMS fWwrNP RRR PR Swr re RRR RR Wwonmnu mnmry Le mrer WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP PRR RRP RRP RRR WeonyDwVfwrNro mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 246 those, when you do it. And they are usually quarterly. But if there is discrepancies and things are going on in that department of correctional services, we have what we call perpetual audits, which he maintained the records of, and that is another checks and balance where you would find out if something is wrong. . BB: And how often are those . N'DIAYE: Those are done quarterly. : Quarterly? Yeah. . All right. So, the fact that this is, we are talking about, like, ten or 11 days, there is a good chance that they weren't done during that time period? Or do you know when they would be done? Are they done, like, on a certain date? MR. N'DIAYE: What, the quarterly? MR. Yeah. MR. N'DIAYE: It’s - and I don't know when the dates of the quarter starts - but that is to your checks and balance. You know -- WR. Right. ~ N'DIAYE: 248 the OIC. You know, everybody has different duties, and -- MR. So, it is not like -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- different ways that work. MR. -- not like morning watch does this, or it’s just based upon what passed down from lieutenant to the OIC -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. Like, what -- MR. -- to whoever. MR. N'DIAYE: -- no, but basically, when you decide to do it. You know, I mean, I can't see, on the midnight shift, you are doing an accountability check like that, because the guys are sleeping, and, you know, you are looking for a living, breathing body, but you can't physically see them. =o MR. N'DIAYE: You know, so, what shift was picked to check and say, okay, let’s make sure our cell, the accountability in the cell. So, I can't -- WR. MR: | You can't really answer the question. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. -- I can't really speak -. Sure. That's fine. EFTA00064372

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249 MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. WR. QM: 0] right. Let's get this stuff out of your way. If you don’t mind, this -- WR. QB: Am I right that we are getting close to the bottom of the pile? We are. We are getting (Indiscernible *02:59:06). You know? MR. Okay. MR. : And then, we touched on this before, but this is an email that the captain sent to you. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. WM: Regarding the lieutenant rounds on 8/9 to 8/10. He sent them, he sent this email on August 11th, 2019. He said, “Warden, here are the lieutenant rounds for 8/9 to 8/10. Below are the workstations logged on to complete rounds.” MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmn. WR. QM: but again, for you, a lieutenant round, and I don't know if we ever came to that conclusion, or that we may have got off topic on that. But a lieutenant round is used primarily to check in, and it’s not necessarily to go down the different ranges? MR. N'DIAYE: On the midnight shift. So, they typically not, you know, unless they have an issue, but like you said, you as a lieutenant can walk - should walk - around and see. Now, the midnight shift is hard, but the other shifts, you, you know, walk around, see 252 (Indiscernible *03:00:26), they are in there, making rounds, checking the books, to see if you got a problem on the range. You would call that. But most lieutenants do, you know, just walk the ranges. Just to see what is going on. MR. a. Because most lieutenants that we talked to -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. MM: | -- said that they were absolutely required to do -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. QM: -- a round, just like a SHU staff member -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. : == was to do a round. Some lieutenants -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. WR. MM: -- specifically, lieutenants that worked that day -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. WR. QM: = -- said, nope, there’s no requirement to do that. MR. N'DIAYE: But -- MR. QM: «So, that’s where I'm, as the warden -- . Because Jesus Christ, I can't take this. L-0-L. (Indiscernible *02:58:29). WR. QM: «We are -. (Indiscernible *02:58:31) with this. MR. : Yeah. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. WR. MM: So, this is the email with all the rounds, and the SHU assignment. And these were separate. WR. HB: Now, let me ask the question (Indiscernible *02:58:48) the supervisors. Your job is the prison. It's your job to look down into the prison, as far as these counts and, you know, accountability boards, and so forth. MR. N'DIAYE: No. I mean, that is what you have a captain for and a lieutenant for. what's going on. MR. + Mm-hmm. MR. : All right. So, should they, though, be walking down the ranges on both the morning, or the day watch and the night watch? Evening watch. MR. N'DIAYE: This is what I will say. You probably got to look at the post orders and RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du mre row mnrr Se wr nm w RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP Wey DHfwrP Re Co . : Yeah. The post orders -- . N'DIAYE: _-- the post orders. -- aren't clear with R Re . N'DIAYE: Yeah. . : We haven't -- . N'DIAYE: So, it’s not -. . HB: -- we haven’t been able RPRRRR we wre RR an rR ~ PRR RRP RRR Oo OUD wr . N'DIAYE: It’s not -- -- specifically determine. MR. N'DIAYE: -- that’s what I mean, it’s not a requirement. 1%. I: okay. MR. N'DIAYE: You know, for the mre reo ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc mNrer = WP nm wm nm w EFTA00064373

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRRRR SOD Se Wwh 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR rPOwWOH4DMH fWwrNP RPRRR Ww Wh RR sO ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm MR. N'DIAYE: MR. -- who is right? MR. N'DIAYE: No. The expectation is, like you hit any unit, you make your rounds within the unit. The SHU unit is no different. That you say, hey, I'm going to go in there, make sure everything is, you know, check on the inmates. And make sure they are fine. But if we are talking about the post orders, were they required to? The post, you know, the post orders, I don’t believe had the requirement that they have to, you know -- MR. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: -- physically go in the (Indiscernible *03:01:24). MR. So, does that - if I understand you correctly - the expectation was that they conduct a round, just like a SHU staff member, but there is no requirement to do so? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. You should be walking around. WR. GM: | 01 right. MR. N'DIAYE: To see if everything -. WR. MM: but it’s not like you 255 WR. QM: «But if you were still the warden of the MCC, and found out that your lieutenants, when they were signing off on doing rounds -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. -- and you found out that they were only checking in with the staff members, and they were not actually walking down the ranges, is that something that you would find problematic? MR. N'DIAYE: I would correct it. MR. And when you say correct it, what do you mean by that? MR. N'DIAYE: I would tell, you know, get with the captain, and I would tell the captain they need to be, you know, in inmate grounds, they need to walk the ranges. MR. So, they should be walking the ranges, then? MR. N'DIAYE: Off of the post orders, it's not in there, you know -- WR. a. I know. I -- MR. N'DIAYE: == any place saying that you have to do it. But as a supervisor, that like any unit you walk on, you want to see what is Well -- a CWO HUDMS fWwrNP —— COUT fwr re mre nd MmmrenNrn Ww WPM Wey DHfwrP PRR RRP RRP RRR WeonyDwVfwrNro mre reo mrr = Wr 254 told them, you gave them a directive, make sure you are doing this. MR. N'DIAYE: _No. MR. : MR. N'DIAYE: No. MR. -- so, if someone wasn’t doing it, it’s not like something they would be disciplined for? MR. N'DIAYE: See, that’s hard. I mean, to say you would discipline. There is a difference between what is written down, and what you need to be doing. I mean, if you are coming in, and I enter there as a supervisor, I want to see what's going around the unit. I might ask the officer, all right, do we have any problems. The inmates, when you come on, hey, they know the lieutenants on, hey, lieutenant, I need to talk to you. So, you are going down the ranges. You know, so, when you are going down the range, you are seeing something. You get to another range. The inmate said, hey, I need to talk to you. So, it is something you should be doing as part of your rounds, and going up into SHU. Just walking around, to make sure everything is -. 256 going on in the unit. So, do I want to use the word “sound correctional judgement"? You know, just to see, as a Supervisor, what is going on. I mean, you have some people that go above and beyond. And then, do their job, and you have some people that want to do the bear minimum. But that is something -- MR. Mm-hmm . MR. N'DIAYE: -- from a rounds point of view, I would say you need to make those rounds. WR. MM: Okay. Let me ask you a question. MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. WR. WM: You do the rounds. Does that mean literally walk up and down this, what we, what I would call the cell block? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. You walk around the unit. You know, you are interacting with inmates. You are talking to inmates. Same thing with the inmates in SHU. You know, you are walking around. Hey, what’s going on? MR. —. So, what you are not familiar with is the way the SHU is set up. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. So, there is no -- EFTA00064374

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRRR we wre RR SD RR ‘© oo 257 WR. GM: «There is different levels, and there is different -- MR. :_ Yeah, I've been to the SHU. MR. -- hallways. MR. : Know what I remember about the SHU, it’s fucking cold. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. Yeah. So, like, if you are just, you can simply go in and go to the officer’s station, and check in with the staff and say -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. -- everything good? You got all your paperwork in order? All your paperwork is actually right here on the desk. Did you find it problematic that they are keeping all of their round sheets on the desk versus on the ranges themselves? MR. N'DIAYE: Different places do it different ways. MR. a. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: Some -- MR. So -. MR. N'DIAYE: -- some places have it, they keep it at the end of the range, and you sign 259 WR. QM: 9 So, what we are trying to say is, which one is right? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, now, for the ones that are saying that I don’t have to go down and check every range, they are going off the post office. MR. > Mm-hmm. MR. N'DIAYE: The ones that are doing their job, they are going around and checking every time. MR. : Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: Making sure the wellbeing of the inmates, and you are checking on the wellbeing of your staff. MR. —. All right. So, it kind of sounds like nobody is right, and nobody is wrong? They need to change the post orders? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, they would, they would have - should put in -- wR. ME: Yeah. MR. N'DIAYE: -- their post orders, but they should be going around, and -- MR. So, they should have a rule -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- the wellness check. wR. MBM: -- that says, you got to go RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR Oo OUD wr mre reo Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 258 it. Some have it right there, the log, you know, take the logbook and they just sign it. So -. MR. MM: So, the individuals, the ops lieutenants and activities lieutenant that we spoke to, that worked on August 9th and August 10th -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. -- a majority of them said, if not all of them, no, no, no, all I needed to do was go to that officer’s station, check in with my officers, make sure their paperwork is done, and then I left. Every other lieutenant that we talked to said, no. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. When you sign that paper, you are signing it just like you conducted a round, as if the SHU staff conducted a round. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. You had to go down every range -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. -- make sure everything was good to go. You are not just checking on. . N'DIAYE: = Mm-hmm., . N'DTAYE: Yeah. . : Okay. . N'DIAYE: So. . So, no one technically did anything wrong. They should just really do it? MR. N'DIAYE: just do it. MR. | el Okay. Fair enough. MR. : The term used was “sound correctional judgment. MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. WR. QM: A011 right. So, that - again - was that email from to you, with the lieutenant rounds. MR. ME: Damn. lower. MR. HM: Unless you want to go right back on it. MR. : Now, this says -- : Wait a minute. Wait a minute. MR. I'm fucking out of here. If you bring that pile back, I'm out of here. Now, I'm going to give you some of that money back, but I can't They should. They should That pile is a lot EFTA00064375

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 PRR RRR RR NDMP WNPRPOWOHDH SWwNP ae ee od WS Wr rs © Ww oc 261 take this shit no more. So, this one says it’s MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. To you. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. who is i Hr MR. N'DIAYE: He aws a unit manager there for the PCU Unit (Phonetic Sp. *03:06:23). MR. Okay. At the MCC? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. It says, subject, “Weekly rounds -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Mm-hmm . -- as requested.” MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. : So, these are weekly rounds from August 4th, 10, 2019. What is that for? MR. N'DIAYE: That was for our Wood sec unit (Phonetic Sp. *03:06:34). MR. a. Oh, okay. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. So, you actually had your own separate wood sec unit? 263 WR. QM: «So, this has nothing to do with Epstein. MR. N'DIAYE: _No. MR. going to -- MR. :_ Yeah. MR. -- you can keep that over here, so we don’t get that confused. MR. + Yeah. MR. All right. So, this one. As far as this one, it says, from you to Mr. It says SHU rounds. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. WR. QR: | What SHU rounds are we looking at here? This is a new document here. MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. This is on -. This is eight, for the -- All right. I'm not even This is for executive -- the week starting at ° > -- or-? MR. N'DIAYE: -- this is starting for 8/4 rounds. So, this is, these are my rounds that I'm doing. RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr MRRP RRR Pow OAS Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 262 Yeah. So, that is not in SHU? MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Or is it? MR. N'DIAYE: Huh? No. That's not in That is a separate unit all together. MR. =. So, why was this provided? For any reason? MR. N'DIAYE: Because I like to -. I used to like to track who was making their rounds and not making their rounds. im. A: 21 igh. MR. N'DIAYE: So, they had to send it to me every week. MR. So, was this just coincidental? Nothing to do with Epstein? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. This had nothing to do with him. MR. > Mm-hmm. MR. N'DIAYE: This was probably what he had to send up that week. MR. a. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: It was the end of the week. MR. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: So, that’s what he sent. So, that had nothing to do with him. SHU. 264 WR. QR: «Now, is there some kind of a requirement that you conduct rounds? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. The warden is supposed to go up and go -. MR. oe. So, you are supposed to conduct rounds in the SHU? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. About once -- MR. : Or is this -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- a week. Like, you can go up aS many times, but, you know, the warden is supposed to be going. : All right. : Now, that means you are MR. MR. supposed to conduct rounds in the SHU? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. I go in the SHU. I walk around and do rounds in every area of the institution. So. MR. And is everyone on here supposed to do a round weekly? Because I have never seen this round sheet until reviewing your emails. MR. N'DIAYE: No. This is every Bureau institution has this. This is where you sign into the Special Housing Unit. This is the log. And this is showing that they made their EFTA00064376

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SCwWOnHtDUN SwWwrP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 265 rounds. So, these are the lieutenants right here, showing that they made their rounds. So, at the end of the week, when they send me the round sheet, and let’s say it looked like this, my question would be, okay, did they make rounds, or_did they forget to make rounds? WR. a. Is this and this the same thing? MR. N'DIAYE: would be. WR. WM: Just the lieutenants? And no one else? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. No one else. This is computer services. The duty officer has to go up there. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. did two rounds. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. to do one. Correct? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. WR. QR: |= AW programs. . N'DIAYE: That, she did it on Friday. 267 For the lieutenants, it : Now, so -- Right there. -- this shows that you Right. And you are only required . N'DIAYE: The PA’s. . By the end of the day, man, I'll be ready to go to MCC myself. I hated going to prison. MR. N'DIAYE: Psychology. You know? MR. So, which ones on here that are actually required to conduct rounds? MR. N'DIAYE: You have the unit team that's supposed to go up. The lieutenants. MR. — Well, SIS, it doesn't appear that they did any rounds. MR. N'DIAYE: That's - WR. GR: «But I'm assuming they certainly should have. Correct? MR. N'DIAYE: SIS should have been up there, to go around. So, and again, I would look at it and see who was on leave. Somebody might have been on leave, not on leave. . And what are - so, when these type of individuals, it looks like more high level such as, I mean, obviously, you are the highest level, what is a warden round look like? Do you all have to walk down the range, or -- MR. N'DIAYE: So, what I -- a CWO HUDMS fWwrNP —— COUT fwr re mnmry Le mrer WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP PRR RRP RRP RRR WeonyDwVfwrNro mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 266 WR. MM: So, the fact that AW operations has nothing in there, is that problematic? MR. N'DIAYE: And here is the other thing could have happened. A lot of times, they make the rounds, sometimes they forget to initial and sign it. WR. GR: | right. MR. N'DIAYE: So, what I would do is, I would look at it and say, okay, when I got at the end of the week, what happened? How come you didn't make rounds? MR. So, all of these blank spaces, were these people supposed to be doing rounds in SHU? MR. N'DIAYE: Not everybody is required. They should have been up there, but they are not required. Like, the finance facility -- MR. The correctional judgement -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- food services. WR. MB: © -- would be they could go up to that. MR. N'DIAYE: make rounds. MR. But health services has to You’re getting it. 268 MR. -- is that what you do? MR. N'DIAYE: -- what I do is, I walk around and I go to every cell, and I talk to the guy, got any issues, any problems? They're, like, no, I'm good. You might have some that say, hey, I'm up here for an investigation. Why am I here? Why am I up here? So, I take my little notes. Okay. Fine. Some of it I can address right there, some of it I can't. But I would typically walk around what we call is the SHU roster. Which, that is the reason why you are up there. Why am I up here? And, you know, a lot of times, you go by it, it says -- MR. : It's because you are a fucking mass murderer, that’s why you're up here. MR. N'DIAYE: -- and, like, you know why you are locked up. And then, they would say, well, how come the investigation is taking so long? And it would depend. If the FBI had it, if it was an OIG investigation. It would depend. So, you know, I would usually tell them, like, you know, it’s an outside agency handling. We are in contact with them. And somebody will come see. EFTA00064377

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm MR. : Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: Some could be up for administrative, like an incident report. MR. So, you went through and talked to everybody, but were you required to do that, or is it just because you just were a good employee? MR. N'DIAYE: I mean, that’s what you should be doing. MR. a. That’s what you should do. But I mean, like you talked about before, well, the post orders don’t say that. MR. N'DIAYE: Well, I don’t have post MR. : Right. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. So, I mean -- MR. But you are -. But something does say that you are required to do it once a week? MR. N'DIAYE: There's nothing in writing to tell me you have to do it. But just like I visit every area, I have to, I visit every area of the institution. You know, make sure I see every employee going there on the off shifts. I would go on the off shifts, you know, to see 271 WR. QR: «Now, is there any way to determine, like, these people that, for instance, visited on Friday, what time the visited? Because this is the day that was gone. So, it says the captain was in there on Friday. MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmm, Should have he noticed wasn't there? MR. N'DIAYE: Not necessarily. If he didn't go down range. And he could have come up, and remember, we have Ten South that’s connected. So, I don't know if he came up there, you know, for an issue for Ten South. MR. > Mm-hmm. MR. N'DIAYE: So, I don't know. And then, him making his rounds, even if he’s making his rounds, you are going to have empty cells on the range. MR. Oh, you will? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. Well, somebody -- MR. : Even if - MR. N'DIAYE: -- somebody could be at medical. Somebody could be on an attorney visit. PRR RR Se ee a RPRRR COND mreNyre rmrROow mrer WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR OOD fwr mre reo mrr = Wr 270 the staff, but it’s -- wR. QM: It's a surprise. In other words, you are not telling them you are coming, you are just going. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. I'm coming up. making my rounds. I'm sitting, talking to staff. What’s your issues? I mean, it’s more the issue of them just work. I mean -. MR. a. So, when you say there's nothing in writing, saying that you should do it, or is there something in writing saying these people that didn't do it, that they should have done it? MR. N'DIAYE: No. And there could be reasons. Now, they - and this is what I would get the report and look into - like, there are people that make the rounds, they come up to SHU but they forget to sign in. MR. a. Right. MR. N'DIAYE: So, when I get the report, I would, you know, talk to the captain, that this the entrance log, and say, hey, why didn't such and such make a round? Now, that AW might have been out that week, and I had this one covering both. So, they came up with the AW. I'm 272 MR. MR. N'DIAYE: So -. MR. -- it wouldn't caused a red flag, you don’t think, if he saw, like, Epstein’s cell empty? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, if empty cell is empty, the first thing you're saying, he’s down on attorney visit. Because the rounds are made during the daytime. MR. =. And in that note, would - say, though, because it says lll , and it looks like was there, too -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. WR. QM: -- should have those two people, if they actually did a round, sa Epstein is down there, but where is _ MR. N'DIAYE: I mean, they could have. I mean, but could have been in the shower. MR. Mm-hmm . MR. N'DIAYE: You know? I mean -- MR. But it wouldn't be something that would be normally asked? MR. N'DIAYE: _No. MR. It was, like, oh -- MR. N'DIAYE: Hinm-mm. So, it wouldn't -- EFTA00064378

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee oe od eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 273 MR. -- Epstein, high-profile guy, where is his cellmate? That wouldn’t be - ? MR. N'DIAYE: No. I mean -- MR. : No. MR. N'DIAYE: -- you’re just saying, okay, Epstein is downstairs, his, you know, or maybe his cellmate was in attorney visit, it could have been on a shower day. He could have been in rec. MR. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: I mean -. MR. So, you are more concerned about the people that are there, as opposed to who weren't there, it sounds like that? To check in with them. MR. N'DIAYE: That, I mean, you want to see, making sure you are around, making rounds, talking to everyone. So, I don't know what, you know, what the thought process is, or, you know, if somebody was in the shower or not. MR. ——. Mm=hinm MR. N'DIAYE: So. WR. QM: Sure. No. trying -- And I'm not MR. N'DIAYE: Hmm. WR. HB, you had two follow up questions before we move on. Why don’t you ask those? WR. QR: If the counts and the rounds were done -- MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. wR. QM: © -- as they were supposed to be done, let’s say in the afternoon, by the SHU C.0.s, would they have caught the fact_that Epstein’s cell was empty, and inmate was actually not where he was supposed to be? In terms of that, if he was assigned, if Epstein was required to have a cellmate, and was transferred, would they have caught onto the fact that Epstein needed a cellmate? MR. N'DIAYE: I don’t understand what -. WR. WB: Let's say was transferred, right? MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. WR. QR: If the counts and the rounds were done, in the afternoon, the 4:00 p.m. count, the rounds in between, if they were done, would the SHU C.0.s have caught on to the fact that I was missing from the cell? RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr MRRP RRR Pow OAS Mmmenmrn Ww Wr MR. N'DIAYE: MR. MR. WM: How many days a week can you take a shower when you’re in -? MR. N'DIAYE: The entire of three times. Monday. Typically, it’s Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. MR. peo aE what about this one? This one is from HMM to you. Weekly rounds on August 12th, 2019. Is this -- MR. N'DIAYE: The PCU. MR. -- is this -? So, this is the same thing? MR. N'DIAYE: sec unit. MR. QM: «The wood sec unit. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. WR. MM: 11 right. So, this might be the exact same thing as -. Oh, this is what I did (Indiscernible *03:14:50). Sorry. All right. That sounds good. Do you mind just_initialing and dating that? WR. MB: Now, we are getting close to the end. Mm-hmm -- to get you to say that. That's the PCU unit. Wood 276 But they already knew that. If the word of mouth -. So, the claim is -- Me hmm. = made up that . N'DIAYE: NT scam stuff in a memo. “And never told me that. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. That they say that's bullshit, and he’s lying. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. The people that he said were present say the same thing. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. : He didn't say that. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. So, point being is, well, if didn't pass that information on, if they were actually conducting their rounds, should they have noticed that he wasn’t there? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. If they knew that he didn't -. If they knew, they knew that - what's his name? - Epstein wasn’t supposed to have a cellmate. So, if you see his cell on there, that I guess, and on the outside of the EFTA00064379

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRRRR SOD Se Wwh 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR rPOwWOH4DMH fWwrNP RPRRR Ww Wh RR sO ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 277 cell, they would have his name and the other person. Then you should be saying, okay, where is the cellmate? We know he’s not in the attorney room. wR. J: MR. N'DIAYE: wR. WB: 1 got it. MR. N'DIAYE: So, you know he's down in the attorney room. So, you would have said, okay, a. got to be in that cell. Okay. So. MR. Hmm. Ace bastard. That's a way to fuck with the other guys. WR. QR: Meaning, if they actually did the rounds and the counts like they were supposed to, there was more than enough time for them to turn around and assign another cellmate, if needed. MR. N'DIAYE: Or to say, of course, to your point, where they are saying that nobody ever told them, if you were making your rounds, you would have saw that there was nobody in that cell, and then ask you a question, where he’s at. MR. QB: And the person whose job it is to make sure they are doing their rounds is the 279 what he is saying is that, the beginning of their shift, they are going in and they are just writing, they are initialing and putting in the time. At the very beginning, for the rest of their shift. MR. N'DIAYE: So, let me put it to you this way._If I -- MR. I saw you smile -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- no, no. wR. WR: -- when he asked that. MR. N'DIAYE: Because if I become aware and know that somebody is doing something like that, that is reportable misconduct. I'm going to report that. So, if somebody came to me and said, well, this person is pre-filling out count slips, that would be something that I would say, okay, you know, I have to do a referral, or if I don’t have enough evidence for it, I would have a supervisor, you know, put it out, said, hey, you cannot do pre-count slips. WR. ME: So, if we have people confessing, admitting that they are not only pre-filling out their count slips, but also doing it with their round sheets -- a CWO HUDMS fWwrNP —— COUT fwr re mre nd MmmrenNrn Ww WPM Wey DHfwrP PRR RRP RRP RRR WeonyDwVfwrNro mre reo mrr = Wr lieutenant or the captain? MR. N'DIAYE: On the shift, it is the lieutenant would check. But now, in fairness to the lieutenant, if you are going off of a sheet, and the sheet says, hey, you made your rounds, and then, something like this happens, then you find out people didn't make their rounds. WR. QR: «And I think what [J question to you was, does this suggest to you that they were not actually conducting their rounds? The fact that was gone for 24 hours, and the notifications weren’t made? MR. N'DIAYE: It would appear that that is the appearance. MR. MJ: © (Indiscernible *03:18:07). MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. I mean. wR. WE: 1 just have one other question. WR. QB: When I do cross examinations, and it says, it would appear that, yeah, that's, yeah, somebody found. MR. Have you ever heard of C.0.s pre-filling round sheets? MR. —. When he says pre-filling, 280 MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. -- what is your response to that? How bad of a -? How bad is that? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, that is a referral. I would have to do a referral for you guys to look into_it. MR. And then, if they are actually pre-filling those out, does that also suggest to you that they didn't do their counts or their rounds? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, I mean, if they're telling you that we pre-filled it out, it’s obvious that they did not, they are not counting. MR. Right. MR. N'DIAYE: Because if somebody is pre- filling out a sheet, that means -- wR. MM: They're not counting. MR. N'DIAYE: -- they have no intention of counting. WR. RM: «And does that indicate to you, as the warden, that they are falsely certifying rounds and counts that they did not conduct? MR. N'DIAYE: If they come to you, and EFTA00064380

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRRRR SOD Se Wwh 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SCwWOnHtDUN SwWwrP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 281 they say, hey, we didn't fill out, we haven't done our count slip, that is an admission of misconduct. MR. Right. But a false certification, as well. Correct? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. That is falsifying the document. I mean, but they have admitted that to you. But as far as -- MR. Now, what if you -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- me -. MR. -- what if they are saying - they are a newer employer - and they are saying, well, we are doing it because we watched a 20-year guy do it. That’s how I learned. He didn't tell me to do it. But I watched him do it. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. So, I did that. MR. N'DIAYE: -- I would -. So, I would say to you, when did that person come in? Because anybody that came in under me, you get the spiel that, hey, I was new, I was an officer. I know what it is to be new. But I always, always tell people, you got to know what's near and dear to you. So -- 283 WR. QM: | But specifically about not watching the 20-year guy. What is it that you tell them? MR. N'DIAYE: come in -- WR. QM: Because it sounds like it is the same thing you tell them every time. MR. N'DIAYE: -- right. So, what I basically tell them, I said, you got some good people that work in the institution. And then, I had, you got some people with time, that just want to do what they want to do. And I tell them, don’t follow them around. I said, you've got one. If you are on probation coming in, you need to be doing your job. I said, if someone comes in, and they're not doing their job, or they’re telling you not to do something, you make sure you let your supervisor know. I said, I make rounds, you can talk to me. MR. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: You know? So, the expectation was clear. But with any other agency - and I'm not just saying our agency - there are people that come in and they become So, what I tell them is, I a CWO HUDMS fWwrNP —— COUT fwr re mre nd MmmrenNrn Ww WPM Wey DHfwrP PRR RRP RRP RRR WeonyDwVfwrNro mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 282 WR. MM: And that is why I asked you specifically -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. : -+ with Tova Noel. Are you confident that you gave her that spiel? MR. N'DIAYE: Talk to whoever was in her class, and you talk to any, any new class that came through, and they will tell you my spiel. MR. a. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: Okay? You can go into our annual training, when we have it, talk to people, and they will tell you about my spiel. MR. — Do you say that always at annual training? MR. N'DIAYE: I have -- WR. QR: Yeah, but do you always say is, you have to do what you have to do. Don’t do it just because the 20-year-old guy did that. I cover everything. Because MR. N'DIAYE: I do. I tell people about doing their job. The same thing when it comes to use of force. I tell staff all the time. Use enough force necessary to control the situation. 284 followers. MR. Now, we're going to move on. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Mm-hmm . We talked about the phone call. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. On August 9th. What is your understanding of what transpired with Epstein being provided a phone call on the night of August 9th, 2019? MR. N'DIAYE: So, from what I understand, when you come in, you have to be able to do, for the monitored calls, the voice analysis and all that. So, from what I understand afterwards, Epstein was never available for that to be done. Because he went down to the attorney room, and he would come up at night. So, from what I understand, he was given an unmonitored call. MR. an “unmonitored call”? MR. N'DIAYE: An unmonitored call is a call that is not recorded with the inmate phone system. And what do you mean by EFTA00064381

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rR CWO D SWwrNP RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 285 MR. = Is it your -- MR. : In other words, they don't listen to what you say? MR. N'DIAYE: Right. They don't. MR. -- is it your understanding that anyone physically monitored the call, or did you -? MR. N'DIAYE: From what I understand, the individual was standing right there when he made the call. MR. All right. So, it is our understanding that, “On August 9th, 2019, Epstein made a request to MCC unit manager, | to provide him with a phone call, so that he - Epstein - could call his mother. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. : BBB checked Epstein’s pack and PIN, and found out it was not yet set up. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. Therefore, MM took Epstein to a shower area in the SHU, and plugged a phone into a legal line. [x dialed the number. A man answered. He handed 287 phone. Is that problematic to you? MR. N'DIAYE: I didn't hear that it was a -. Who did I -? They said it was his -. MR. So, that information might have come out after. MR. N'DIAYE: It came out after. I didn't - I heard that after the fact - so, I didn't hear any specifics, but I heard it was -. I forgot who they said it was that called, but then afterwards, they said, whoever they said it was, was deceased. That he didn't have that talk. WR. GY: «1 think it was his mother. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. I think it might -. So, and that, that is what I heard. MR. His -- MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. WR. MM: -- his mother died during the time of this investigation. MR. N'DIAYE: Hmm. WR. MM: She was previously deceased. MR. N'DIAYE: vR. wait. Deceased. So, wait, wait, wait, wait, RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR OOD fwr mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 286 the phone to Epstein. And then, (left for the day. a stayed -". Oh, sorry. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. “Then we found out that the SHU C.0.s were around. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. And WD did not specifically instruct any one of them to monitor their phone call. Instead, he called the SHU after he departed from the MCC, to make sure that the phone was taken away from Epstein after his allotted time.” Had you heard that before? MR. N'DIAYE: I have -. What I heard was he was there and did the monitoring. MR. So, your understanding was that, was there the entire time of his call? MR. N'DIAYE: his call. MR. So, a number of questions off of that. The fact that dialed the number that he gave him, and a man called. A man answered. Who, he said he was calling his mother. A man answered and he gave him the 288 That, at the entire time of MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. MBB: So, he calls, looking for his mother. MR. QM: He said he wanted to talk to his mother. WR. BE: But his mother was already dead. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. And the person who answered the phone was a male. But he still gave the phone to Mr. Epstein. Is that problematic? That he says he wants to talk to his mother. A man answers. And then gives the phone to Mr. Epstein. MR. N'DIAYE: Well, remember, I am hearing this, that it was a call that all along said I'm calling the mother. I don’t know anything about a man_answering the phone. MR. No, no, no, no, no. I'm providing this information as in, like, you are the warden, what is your take on this? Did he do something wrong there? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, as far as, you know, you are saying you want to talk to your mother, and the -- EFTA00064382

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 289 WR. GM: | And a man answers the phone. MR. N'DIAYE: -- and then, a man answers the phone. Yeah. It might have been some questions he should have been asking. WR. ME: | Should have he verified who it was he was providing -? If he is giving him an unmonitored call, on an unmonitored line, should have he verified who it was that was on that other line? MR. N'DIAYE: Right. the phone. WR. JR: Why do you know it’s an unmonitored line? WR. QM: | Because the legal line isn't recorded? MR. N'DIAYE: Right. wR. HE: So, that means unmonitored, that it’s -- . N'DIAYE: If a male picked up Yeah. That you can't -. -- it’s not recorded. Right. Correct. Okay. On that note, were there 291 : But not in the SHU? Not in the SHU. : Okay. So, not only did he do that, but he then left the SHU for the day. Obviously, he was supposed to sit there and listen to the call. Correct? MR. N'DIAYE: Right. WR. QM: “Should have he put it on speaker phone? MR. N'DIAYE: Either listen to the call, or if he had somebody else take over the call. WR. QM: Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: You know, so, somebody should have been monitoring the call. WR. GR: | Right. MR. N'DIAYE: Just to stand there and listen. wR. QM: 01 right. that, you know, obviously, dropped the ball there. He gave him a call, he just wanted to talk to his mom, his mom is deceased, and a male answered. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. WR. QM: «Second, he didn't stay to listen to the call. Third, he didn't tel] ~ NIDIAYE: ~ N'DIAYE: Now, the fact PRR RR Se ee a RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww RR ae ee PRR RRR Dw wr ed ool mel ro wo 290 any lines that Mr. [J could have plugged the phone into, that were monitored, versus if they didn't have a pack and PIN? MR. N'DIAYE: Not on the ranges, I believe. I'm not sure. vR. SE: No? MR. N'DIAYE: I don't think there was anything on there. MR. Because, yeah, we had been told by someone that many, if not most, BOP facilities have the ability, if a pack and PIN such as that wasn’t set up. There are lines that you could plug it into, that are monitored, but at MCC, that wasn’t the case -- . N'DIAYE: _No. : -+ in SHU? Not on the ranges. Okay. | N'DIAYE: . N'DIAYE: No. You said not on the ranges? Yeah. Where would it be? . N'DIAYE: I'm not sure. I think religious services might have a line. The Chaplin. - N'DIAYE: 292 anybody else to listen to the call. Now, the fact that the other - he leaves the unit - the fact that the other people are in the unit, should have they then, at some point, also said, like, hey, this guy is on a phone call, let's go monitor it, or should have that been something that I -- MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah, you couldn't -- WR. MM: | -- would have directed? MR. N'DIAYE: -- you couldn’t -. But that's what I'm saying. I don't know the conversation that took place between them. If the call was made, and somebody was told to go monitor it. Did they go over it? Did they not go over it? VR. GM: No. MR. N'DIAYE: So, I don’t -. VR. MR: So, tr. HB told the people -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. QM: -- he’s on a phone call. Get it back after - whenever it was - 15 minutes. MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. WR. MM: | They were giving him an EFTA00064383

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 293 unmonitored call. WR. WEB: The significance of this is that, if somebody had monitored the phone call, they might have found out that he was very depressed, or he was -? MR. Well, there is -. Can you tell us, why is it important for us to know that what inmates are talking about on their phone calls? MR. N'DIAYE: I mean, just for the safety and the security of the institution. WR. —. Is it true that they could potentially operate their businesses, their illegal businesses, from there? MR. N'DIAYE: You could. MR. Or they call a hit on someone. Or they could, they could do a lot of different illegal activities, if we are not monitoring those calls -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. That’s -- MR. : == that we wouldn’t know MR. N'DIAYE: -- why we monitor them. WR. MM: A011 right. 1 have one more story. 295 instance that you wouldn't listen to the conversation? MR. N'DIAYE: On an unmonitored line? MR. Mm-hmm MR. N'DIAYE: No. Somebody should be standing there. MR. All right. And what are your thoughts on this specific matter from what we just, from what I just told you? MR. N'DIAYE: Like I said, if it’s problematic, if you said, if it’s the way you said it, yeah. MR. a. And is it a serious concern and safety violation? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, yeah. breach. MR. And why? MR. N'DIAYE: Because we don’t know what the conversation was. MR. Okay. You said -. Okay. You answered that. These are just on this note, there is just a couple of these. There is a phone call. This one says it’s from an Tl Do you know who that is? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. He's the supervisory I mean, it’s a Wey DHfwrP PRR RRP RRP RRR WeonyDwVfwrNro mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 294 MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. Right. wR. WE: I'ma young lawyer. And I know it’s hard to believe I was ever young. But I go - I'm supposed to interview a prison - and I go to the interview, and he says, this person is the main rat against, and I said, no, he’s not. I said, that person has got no - fucking nothing to do with it. He don’t say nothing about you. Guy looks at me and says, oh, man, I better make a phone call. MR. So, is it standard practice to allow inmates to make personal calls, as had done? MR. N'DIAYE: You do I, sometimes if they come in, they don’t have a pack number. Like, you could have a family member that has passed away, and, you know, you allow them to make a call under that circumstance. You know, I have a pack number set up. You know, so, sometimes, but you should be monitoring that. Sometimes, you make a call to another agency. And the inmates, you know, you verify, hey, this is such and such. But you stay and you listen to the conversation. MR. Was there ever an 296 attorney. WR. ME: So, he is an attorney? Oh, okay. That's the same guy. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. Supervisory staff attorney. It says, “For client Jeffrey Epstein. Good afternoon. Below, please find complaints from Epstein’s attorneys. Can you check to see if he has toilet paper, and that his CPAP is plugged in? I am less concerned regarding his complaint of having had two calls, but they were on unmonitored lines. there is no recording of them. His phone account is set up, so we could get a call on the ITS, when 30 days has -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. -- elapsed.” MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmm. MR. So, it looks like this was actually discussed, and this again, was on August 6, 2019. Do you know if this was -? It looks like this was the whole, to the whole executive staff -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. So, Right. -- team. Was this talked EFTA00064384

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRRR we wre RR SD ae ee od WS Wr rs © Ww oc 297 about at all? MR. N'DIAYE: It was sent out, and that’s when, and I don't recall the timeline, I said he needs to get his stuff set up. Anything -- a. Okay. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: -- that he needs, needs to get it set up. So, I believe that was the day when I sent everybody up there, in the attorney room area, and said, get his stuff set up. MR. Now, did you - the captain, I believe, informed that he would give him this call, just make sure it’s monitored. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. Prior to that, did the captain talk to you about this at all? MR. N'DIAYE: About what? MR. Well, affording this un, you know, this call on an unmonitored line, but just making sure it was monitored? MR. N'DIAYE: No. MR. No? MR. N'DIAYE: —Hmm-mm. MR. But what you had said, make sure his pack and PIN is set up? 299 WR. QM: 9 And he’s to you, and it says, “Phone record 104.” MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. : Sent on Saturday, August 10th, 2019, at 3:04 p.m. Now, it has an attachment here, titled 8.19.19.cap. MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmm, MR. That we are unable to open. Do you know what that would have been? It appears that it is related to the phone call that Mr. Epstein made. Do you remember if you ever received a recording of that phone call? MR. N'DIAYE: No. I didn’t get any recordings. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. number that he dialed? MR. N'DIAYE: I think it might -. And it might have been the number. I'm not sure. I can't -. I don't recall. MR. Would it have -- Nuh-uh. -- been, maybe, then, the > Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: What that is. MR. Do you remember asking Mr. to provide you with any specific RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr MRRP RRR Pow OAS 298 MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. I had to. Because there was some other things to get set up, and I said, hey, we got to make sure that we can get his stuff going. If that’s the date, if I remember, where everyone went up and talked to him at the, where he was in the attorney room. MR. : Okay. Now, this is one that's going to be -. Now, did you -. Were you able to print out that attachment? MR. No. That’s just our screen. It’s not what the would see. a. I was just hoping -. MR. Okay. So, this is one we got. It’s something from . MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. And who is that? MR. N'DIAYE: That's the communication y. WR. MM: Correct. And he is in charge of, like, the phones -- MR. N'DIAYE: The phones. MR. : -- the cameras. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. Correct? MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmn. gu 300 information with regards to the call? MR. N'DIAYE: We might have called him about the line, and what was the number that was called. MR. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: And could they have pulled it up. So, we might have asked him that. MR. a. But it definitely wasn’t an actual recording on the phone? MR. N'DIAYE: No. It was -- MR. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: -- I think it might have been the number that, you know, I think wanting to pass on to the FBI. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. initialing -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. that .cap was. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. : Great. Uh-huh. Do you mind just Mm- hme . -- and dating that? Mm- hme . I just didn't know what Right. So, we didn't know, oh my EFTA00064385

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRRR we wre RR SD ee oll ood Wher © Wo 301 gosh, do we have a recording of this thing? MR. The second one, too. MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. MR. All right. Now, we are going to get into the actual incident. MR. : Oh my God. Now, (Indiscernible *03:34:06) getting ready to get into. WR. QR: «We don’t have much more. I promise. I mean, we are way passed the -- MR. :_ Yeah. MR. -- yeah. What is your understanding of what occurred in Epstein’s cell on August 10th, 2019? MR. N'DIAYE: I don't know. MR. : You don’t know? MR. N'DIAYE: I didn't go up there. MR. : Do you -. MR. N'DIAYE: I never saw the cell. MR. Do you believe if -. Do you know if Epstein took his own life? MR. N'DIAYE: That's what I’ve been told. MR. Is that your understanding of what happened? MR. N'DIAYE: That was what was conveyed 303 the - let's see - this is the Bureau of Prisons Health Services Clinical Encounter. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. Did you get to review this one at all? MR. N'DIAYE: _No. WR. QM: It talks about responding to a body alarm at 6:35 for medical emergency. MR. N'DIAYE: I think I might have saw the memorandums, but I don’t -. I don’t recall seeing this. MR. All right. just read this, for the record -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. -- because it is a very quick one. It says, “Responded to a body alarm at 6:35 for a medical emergency on Nine South. Upon arrival, inmate was received on the floor of his cell, unresponsive, with CPR in progress by correctional officers. The inmate was cold with circumferential bruising around the neck and posterior mottling. Pupils fixed and dilated. No palpus (Phonetic Sp. *03:35:59) pulses, call place for EMS, CPR continued. ED placed. No shock advised. CPR So, let me RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR Oo OUD wr mre reo Mmmenmrn Ww Wr to me. WR. MM: «Do you have any information, with regard to anyone else taking Epstein’s life? MR. N'DIAYE: No. . No. Have you heard that Epstein’s cell door was left opened on the night of August 9th, 2019, and/or the morning of August 10th, 2019? MR. N'DIAYE: I didn't hear that. MR. You have never heard that? MR. N'DIAYE: No. MR. Have you heard that any cellmate’s in the SHU - any cells within the SHU, any of their doors were left opened on the night of August 9th, 2019 in the morning? MR. N'DIAYE: I did not hear that. MR. On August 9th. No? MR. N'DIAYE: —_Hinm-mm. MR. Do you know if anyone harmed Epstein? MR. N'DIAYE: No. WR. MM: «411 right. So, these are 304 continued. Inmate transported to HSU treatment room, with CPR in progress. 18G, heplock (Phonetic Sp. *03:36:12).” No. I'm not going to read the rest of this. It just talks about continued CPR in progress. Are you aware, after Epstein was found on August 10th, 2019, at approximately 6:33 a.m., did he ever show any signs of life? MR. N'DIAYE: there. WR. QM: Yeah. I just didn't know if you had heard -- MR. N'DIAYE: No. MR. *03:36:34). MR. N'DIAYE: already out. MR. Because they said that, you know, he was declared deceased at the hospital. So, my question is, it sounds like, from this person's report -- MR. MR. : == he was -- MR. MR. : == there was no signs of I would have reported it. I never -. I wasn’t up When I -- -- (Indiscernible -- when I got there, he was EFTA00064386

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm life. MR. N'DIAYE: And that’s -- WR. QM: | And I was just wondering, had you heard anything from staff? Was there ever any signs of life, that you are aware of, while after - from the point he was found, on. MR. N'DIAYE: Well, the impression that I was given was, he was alive when he left the institution. WR. WE: So, you believed he was actually alive? MR. N'DIAYE: That's what was conveyed. WR. QM: «It was conveyed to you that -? MR. N'DIAYE: I think he was still alive, if I remember right. I think he was -. They did the CPR. And then, they got him out. WR. WE: And who -. So, according to this, again, this person arrived at 6:35 -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hme. WR. MM: -- they're saying the inmate was cold. You know, “Pupils fixed and dilated. No palpus pulses.” Meaning, I'm assuming, that means no pulse. You know? MR. N'DIAYE: So, you would probably have > Mm-hmm, MR. N'DIAYE: But the other thing is, you know, I don’t know, like you just said, the medical examiner determines, you know, if he’s alive or -. WR. QM: Well, and that was going to become my follow up. First of all, who - this person. It says provider, a RN. Is that someone who worked at - MR. N'DIAYE: He was one of the nurses that worked. MR. a. hmm MR. : All right. And is it your understanding, by saying provider, this is the person who wrote this report? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. Typically, who has the encounter fills it, writes it in the system. WR. MM: Okay. So, up until me reading these out, you actually were under the assumption that he was alive? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. WR. QM: «when he left. MR. N'DIAYE: I thought he was alive. PRR RR Se ee a RPRRR COND mreNyre rmrROow mrer WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR OOD fwr mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 306 to look at the response, the staff responding memorandums on what -. MR. So, up until this date, did you think that he was alive when he had left the institution? MR. N'DIAYE: That's what I believed. That was the impression I had. MR. MMMM: Can I ask a question? Right. If he was dead when they came, and somebody found him, or even if he was close to death, how long would it have been that he tried to kill himself, and the time that they found him? In other words, does that mean he tried to kill himself 45 minutes before? Does that mean he tried to kill himself 30 minutes before? You understand the question I'm asking? MR. a. Sure. I mean, that is something that the medical examiner, you know, makes that_determination. MR. MM: Because obviously, if he was, had done whatever he did, during the time that there was supposed to be a round, and somebody fucked up, you know what I mean? If you are there, with a towel around your throat, that’s a hint that you are not exactly in the best of 308 That was my assumption. MR. a. Okay. Does that have anything to do with the fact that the medical examiner is the only one who can declare him dead? MR. N'DIAYE: It does, too. WR. MR: | A11 right. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. MM: | -- I have heard that inmates don't die at prisons. MR. N'DIAYE: Well, I mean, people say that, but again, in reality, we - no one in the prison can declare an inmate dead. WR. MM: | Right, right, right. MR. N'DIAYE: Even if -. MR. QM: But is that what you mean by that statement, though? Did you -. I mean, had you heard that he showed signs from life? . N'DIAYE: From what -- Because we have heard Yeah. And also -- . N'DIAYE: -- from -- : == type of thing -- -- yeah, from what I -- -- before. ~ N'DIAYE: EFTA00064387

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RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 309 MR. N'DIAYE: -- hear, they were still performing life-saving measures on him, even when, from - what do you call it? - EMS coming in there. So, when you say to me that we are performing life-saving measures, I'm assuming that he is still alive. MR. Right. MR. N'DIAYE: so -. MR. -- always a chance you could bring him back. MR. N'DIAYE: That, you know -- MR. Or you are hoping that you are going to resuscitate him. But do you know of any indication of -- That he was successful -- -- signs of life? -- yeah. I didn't. Again, I'm going off of, assuming that he was still alive because they were still working on him. MR. a. Okay. , MR. N'DIAYE: So, and if somebody start, now, I’ve been in situations where the paramedics come in, and, you know, they work on them, and they say, you know what? There is Like, there is -- WR. QR: It's sort of a joke. MR. N'DIAYE: -- yeah. WR. MM: To (Indiscernible *03:40:46). MR. N'DIAYE: It’s a joke. Because sometimes, the bodies are still there, and -- vR. ME: | Right. MR. N'DIAYE: -- and we know he is deceased. But then, the doctor and the medical examiner -- vr. a: MR. N'DIAYE: wR. MR. N'DIAYE: *03:40:57 MR. Yeah. -- declares -- At the hospital -- -- (Indiscernible -- (Indiscernible *03:40:57) MR. : Right. MR. : The guy's got a big (Indiscernible *03:41:00), you know -- MR. N'DIAYE: Uh-huh. WR. MMM: | -- whatever they cal] them, knives in his chest. MR. N'DIAYE: = Mm-hmm. MR. You know, you can tell he’s not coming back, but I mean, you know what I'm saying, (Indiscernible *03:41:04). PRR RR Se ee a RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR Oo OUD wr mre reo Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 310 nothing else we can do. He still hasn't been declared dead. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. MR: Right. MR. N'DIAYE: But from what I gather, they were still working on them. MR. MM: When you say nobody dies in prison, you are being facetious? MR. It's just one of those things that_-- Sure. But they still -. Yeah. It doesn’t -. -- it happens at the -- Yeah. -- at the hospital. Yeah. Mm-hmm . That’s where they are MR. N'DIAYE: MR. declared dead. ”. MR. N'DIAYE: wR. a: MR. N'DIAYE: necessarily true. like, sometimes -- Yeah. Mm- hme . Right. Okay. And that’s not, you know, I mean, it’s where you are - 312 MR. N'DIAYE: Uh-huh. MR. But just, I just want to be clear, because with that statement, without me getting a little more clarification, people are going to read, wait a second, the warden said that he was still, he thought he was still alive. Now, I want to make sure I'm clear. Are you saying that there was a chance for them to bring him back, or based upon the conversation with someone - and my follow would be that, who? - did you believe that he was still alive? MR. N'DIAYE: My assumption, from when I was called, was they were working on him, and he was - they were being taken to the hospital. . a. Okay. . N'DIAYE: That's -- That was -- -- that’s the term. -- that -. Wait. You were called at a certain time. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. called. MR. MMM: Okay. Now, the lieutenant says -. ~ N'DIAYE: When the lieutenant EFTA00064388

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rR CSCwWOmOANDMDS fWwNHP RPRRRR We WN Re RR SD ee ee od Se wWwNr Ow CO hr nm SCwWOnHtDUN SwWwrP w RPRRPR RRR a ee an Oe ee RR ‘© oo 313 WR. QM: «So, when you came back and found out, did you ever find out that he wasn't showing signs of life, when you came in and talked to people? MR. N'DIAYE: No. Because I - first of all, when it happened, I wasn’t going around questioning people about -- MR. —, Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: == okay, what’s going on with this, because then, I knew that it was a criminal case. But not criminal, but there was going to be an investigation into it. And so, I didn't want to give the appearance of anything, that I was interfering with any investigation. But when I did call, they said they were working on him, and that, you know, he was being transported to the outside hospital. MR. And who was it that provided you with that information? MR. N'DIAYE: The lieutenant. Lieutenant WR. MMMM: So, you drew the inference that that -- MR. N'DIAYE: Uh-huh. 315 MR. MR. : We only have, really, very brief conversations left. All right. So, this was an email sent from you, to — It just says, subject, “Names.” MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hme. wR. QM: «It says Michael Thomas. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hme. WR. QM: «Tova Noel, and J . N'DIAYE: — Mm-hmm. WR. QM: «who were -? Why were those people listed? MR. N'DIAYE: Because he wanted to know who was working up there that night. MR. an. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: Who was the staff working there that_night. WR. a. So, why did you write HM versus, o_o or who else was up there? Was (Phonetic Sp. *03:43:25) still there? MR. :_No MR. : At least SR and HB. as left off for any reason? RR ROW OHMS fwrNP —— wr RPRRR oN Du ee od Wwrerow mre oe RR ae ee RR i) PRR RP RRR Wonymnufw 314 MR. MM: -- meant he was stil] alive? MR. N'DIAYE: Right. I assumed that, you know, they were still working on him, and he was still alive. WR. MM: And after that conversation, though, and speaking with other people, you never gathered that, oh, he was, they were working on him, attempting to bring him back, but he was not alive? MR. N'DIAYE: I didn't -. MR. : From -. MR. N'DIAYE: The assumption, my assumption, was that he was deceased at the hospital. MR. : Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. So. MR. All right. Do you want to follow_up on that at all, anymore? MR. No. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. Okay. : That kind of covers it. : Are we through now? YE: No. MR. a. No. Because I think [MM worked -- MR. N'DIAYE: I think this -- MR. : == until midnight, and HM only worked until 10:00. MR. N'DIAYE: No. For - and I don't - correct me if I'm wrong - I don’t know if he wanted to know who was on the midnight shift. And then, I included who was on Ten South. I'm not sure. VR. : think vas the OIC of the shift previous. And then, just Tova, a -- MR. N'DIAYE: Tova would have -- MR. : -- and Tova were the ones . N'DIAYE: -- been two up there. : -- midnight afterwards. Yeah. : And then -. : I think that Ten South was ~ N'DIAYE: MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. So, I don't know, remember it. But I know it had to do with the question about who was working. MR. Okay. EFTA00064389

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RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRRR Ww Whe RR SD MmMYyrRe re Oo wc MR. N'DIAYE: So, I don't know the specifics and why it listed those three. WR. —. And you don’t know if, like, because these were, who we considered the subjects. MR. N'DIAYE: No. I mean, these two would have been obvious because they were working up there on the midnight shift. But I don’t know why ot thrown in there. MR. : Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. Mind just initial and dating that? Okay. And this one is an email from Captain to you, dated Sunday, August 11, 2019. And it says, subject, “A memorandum, Epstein.” MR. N'DIAYE: — Mm-hmm. MR. And it says that this was dated August 10th, 2019. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. WR. GM: «It's from Captain J. It says, subject is, “Security expectations involving inmate Epstein, Jeffrey.” MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmm. MR. Are you familiar with 319 he was informed of my expectations regarding the supervision of inmate Epstein, specifically, he was reminded on several occasions that inmate Epstein was to be housed with a cellmate.” MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. So, is this all, like, the expectations surrounding -- MR. N'DIAYE: The expectations. MR. : -- Epstein? MR. N'DIAYE: Right. Mm-hmm. MR. And when he says, “During the week of July 31st, 2019, in order to address management concerns with inmate Epstein,” do you know what he is talking about there? With management concerns. MR. N'DIAYE: The housing of them. And in the Special Housing Unit. MR. —. Okay. And do you know if, according to this, it looks like he is saying that he did perform an informal training sessions with staff. Do you know if he, in fact, did that, or is it just based upon -- MR. N'DIAYE: Just based upon -- MR. -- what he wrote here? PRR RR Se ee a RPRRR COND mreNyre rmrROow mrer WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR OOD fwr mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 318 this? Did you ever see this, that he sent? MR. N'DIAYE: I did. MR. Do you know what the purpose of this was? MR. N'DIAYE: Let me read it again. “(Indiscernible *03:44:56), and while this could be conducted, I did, I informed staff (Indiscernible *03:44:59) be dealing with inmate Epstein, and others were notified. I explained that lieutenants were to conduct (Indiscernible *03:45:08), and at that point, (Indiscernible *03:45:09). I explained I could, and they would not (Indiscernible *03:45:15).” Oh, no. I just was asking him when the thing happened, what is the guidance he provided? WR. QM: So, what did he provide to, like, the SHU staff and the lieutenant? Because -- MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. -- at least the last little point on this first page -- MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. -- $0, it says, “In detailed conversations with the SHU lieutenant, 320 MR. N'DIAYE: -- on what he sent out. MR. Okay. So, there is no other information, aside from what he's telling you? MR. N'DIAYE: He told me Right. Yeah. that. MR. MM: So, this one is - I want to get your take on this matter - so, this is back to , who was relieved at 5:30, but she stayed at the institution at least until 9:30, and sent out that email, detailing, you know, what day, and the lieutenant’s log, and the daily activity log. So, Captain = sent her an email on 8/12/2019, stating, “Lieutenant reminding you to submit your supervisory memorandum for the inmate Epstein incident that occurred on 8/10/2019. Please have it complete and ready for submission on 8/13/2019." She responded with no, addressing nothing, just saying, just responded simply, “In your email, you state, quote, ‘I am reminding you.’ End quote. I haven't spoken to you or anyone else regarding the incident involving inmate Epstein or , Tam EFTA00064390

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 321 anything else pertaining to August 10th, 2019. So, how is it possible for you to be reminding me? Second, I have been properly relieved, prior to the incident involving inmate Epstein.” What is your take on that email? MR. N'DIAYE: First of all, any major incident that takes place in the institution, we have to do what is called a report of incident. MR. Sure. MR. N'DIAYE: He is well within the scope of his employment, asking, okay, where is your, where is -. And I don't know if he was asking her the overall memorandum. Like, you are the shift lieutenant. You know, when this incident took place. So, technically, you should have been doing the packet. So, he is probably contacting her for that. WR. —. Well, she was relieved at 5:30 a.m., but she was still there, and the incident happened at 6:30. And again, she aws there at least until 9:30. And she did respond to the SHU afterwards, helping with the feeding. Should have she written a memorandum? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. 323 MR. N'DIAYE: So, let me ask you this question. I have, I have a medical emergency. A suicide, right? That is an emergency everyone in the institution has to respond to. Why didn't you respond to it? MR. —. So, you think that she maybe came back after? MR. N'DIAYE: It doesn't make sense to say wR. QM: «Well, she never sent out her required logs, though. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. So, that, but -- MR. So, you reviewed her emails. And I would think that she would have sent that out, if she had left, I would think she would have sent that out before she left. Right? As required. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. So, did you leave and come back? I mean, because if you are saying that you were there, you would have been one of the first responders up to the unit. MR. : Yeah, MR. N'DIAYE: For the emergency. MR. That's a really good point. PRR RR Se ee a RPRRR COND mreNyre rmrROow mrer WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR OOD fwr mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr MR. Yes? MR. N'DIAYE: I mean, she said she responded to the incident? MR. She didn't respond to the incident. She responded after the incident, to help in the SHU with feeding and dealing with the inmates. MR. N'DIAYE: So, she -. Well -. MR. J: So, somebody told her that the fucking guy hung himself, should she have -. Right? MR. N'DIAYE: Again, from what I gather, I am under the impression, when the lieutenant relieved her, she was gone. Because, and, you know, and I can't speculate on what was there. So, if we -. WR. WM: | She said she stuck around, working on matters that she needed to catch up on. MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. So -- MR. But it sounds like manipulating those numbers on the counts and stuff. MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. Right? . N'DIAYE: You know? : In other words -- I wish we had -- : -- they're saying it sounds . a: N'DIAYE: I mean, so, and then, if you . «sand if she didn't, why? . N'DIAYE: -- and if you didn't respond, why didn't you respond? MR. a. If she -. Is it a claim at all, I had been relieved, I wasn’t technically working? MR. N'DIAYE: If you are in the building, you have to respond. a, Is that right? N'DIAYE: It’s an emergency. : Okay. I mean, as a lieutenant -- : Okay. -- I would want to respond, -- I wish we had thought MR. ~ N'DIAYE: ~ N'DIAYE: and say -- WR. QM: «And so, the fact that she EFTA00064391

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 325 states that she was there, and she was working on her administrative responsibilities -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. : -- $0, is that a problem, then, as the warden? What do you mean you are working on the administrative? You should have responded to that emergency. MR. N'DIAYE: No. But - and I don’t want to speculate on when you are there - but I just, there is just some questions -- : Wait, and I think -- . N'DIAYE: -- they just don’t -- : -+ that is a yes or ano -- Right. . : -- you know, question. . N'DIAYE: Yeah. I mean, it’s a problem. If you are saying I am working on it, okay. Now, at what point did you say, okay, I need to, because once they had said, hey, I have a suicide or something going on, which is probably over, you know, a real medical . N'DIAYE: emergency, and you hear the transmission on the radio, you are going to go up there. So then, with the feeding. Either way, you were in the 327 all right? And then, secondly, what is this? But yeah. : Fair enough. MR. : Okay, listen, one last question. MR. : Does that give the implication that she is covering up for somebody, or she MR. N'DIAYE: I don't know. MR. We don’t know. That’s -. for someone? Because -. MR. N'DIAYE: I haven’t heard anything, MR. Did you hear about inmates saying that she was making statements MR. N'DIAYE: Again, I don’t want to make any statements -- MR. N'DIAYE: - that are not factual. MR. :_(Indiscernible *03:51:56). you say, oh, I went up there later, to help conversation, like, you know, first, are you MR. MR. Sure. just didn't do her job? Had you heard anything about her covering up but, you know -- that she was going to cover for other people? MR. No, no, I'm asking you -- MR. -- did you ever hear -? a CWO HUDMS fWwrNP RRR PR Swr re RRR RR Wwonmnu mnmry Le mrer WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP PRR RRP RRP RRR WeonyDwVfwrNro mre reo mrr = Wr 326 building. The captain is asking you, it happened on your shift, you are responsible for conducting the report of incident. MR. a. So, that answer is yes, she should have written a memorandum? MR. N'DIAYE: She should have written one. I don’t understand why she didn't, you know? MR. And is that at all - reading how she responded - is that insubordination at all, to you? MR. N'DIAYE: Listen. I will put it this way. I can't speak on other supervisors or how they tolerate, but if you had given me a memorandum like this, we would be having a conversation. You know? MR. Is that, at the very jeast, inappropriate -- MR. N'DIAYE: I think -- MR. -- I think it’s inappropriate. I mean, that’s the way -- MR. I mean, I read it. I it was inappropriate. . N'DIAYE: _-- yeah. I just didn't know how -- I would have gone to have a 328 . N'DIAYE: No, I didn't hear anything. :_I would hate to -- . You never heard it. . N'DIAYE: Right. HB: -- 1 would hate to give my own client a hard time. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. WR. MMMM: But, but it sounds to me like she's got three hours where she knows this guy is dead. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. MB: You know? And she don’t say much. I mean, you know, if I was him, I would be drawing an inference, saying, what the fuck is going on? Excuse my language, by the way. I have a filthy mouth. MR. N'DIAYE: No. I mean, I understand what you are saying, but you know, I'm just, my point of view is - and my concern - is -- wR. WR: Yup. MR. N'DIAYE: -- if you were there -- wR. MM: Your concern is, you would have asked, unlike myself, you would have asked her a question first -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. thought ~ N'DIAYE: EFTA00064392

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee oe od eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 329 WR. QM: -- rather than jumping into, which is -- MR. N'DIAYE: Because I was -- WR. WR: -- which is what I did. MR. N'DIAYE: -- under the impression, because when Lieutenant [MM called me, he was the operations lieutenant, and he had relieved her. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. relieved her, but -- MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. -- according to her, she hadn't gone home. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. Do you mind just initialing and dating that? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. WR. WM: Maybe you asked this question. And I just want to clarify. Being that she started this shift 10:00 p.m. the night before, right? MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. MR. Let’s say this incident did wR. J: MR. N'DIAYE: we. to take in a count. MR. N'DIAYE: count -- WR. WM: He's supposed to -- MR. N'DIAYE: _-- on shift. MR. An institutional count. MR. N'DIAYE: Institutional count. MR. Okay. MR. Not a physical, in the SHU count. wR. WB: Okay. So, now -- MR. N'DIAYE: But now, if you (Indiscernible *03:53:53). WR. QM: -- I got to shut up. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. Go ahead. WR. WE: He's supposed to take a count. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. WR. MB: Right? And he’s supposed to enter the count. MR. N'DIAYE: vR. : Right. She had gone home already. Well, he had certainly So, see, wait. -- you got the -- -- the lieutenant is supposed Right? Right. Just to take one Right. RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr MRRP RRR Pow OAS mre wh Right? Okay. And there was a| 24 count entered, right? And there is no question| 25 330 happen. We're not saying she did. We don’t know. If she went in and she altered the lieutenant logs, for the previous shift, did she do something wrong? MR. —, Well, and again, we are knowing, though, that she started at 10:00 p.m. So, that is still her shift. MR. : Yeah. But -- MR. We've had this conversation -- MR. :-- 0, no, but -- MR. -- before. MR. : == let's just say, you know, the fact that the inmate wasn’t moved until midnight, and then the clarification, and the count, the count numbers being changed in there. Now, so, the lieutenant log count numbers are accurate, except the count, the actual count slips, were completely off. So, somewhere along the way, someone altered those numbers to -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. -- correct it. MR. N'DIAYE: -- the lieutenant is required to take a count on each shift. Well -- So -- 332 that, at some point, the count was altered? MR. : The count was wrong. MR. N'DIAYE: The count was wrong. MR. : Okay. Okay. MR. Well, no -- MR. : Yeah. (Indiscernible *03:54:14) -- MR. : =+ what he’s saying is it was altered. -- (Indiscernible *03:54:15). I'm talking about the numbers . : So, if you recall -- . :__-- on the paperwork. . : == on August 9th, 2019, the lieutenant’s log says, at midnight, there was 72 in the SHU. The count slip says 73. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. And the lieutenant’s log for the next day at midnight says there was 73. MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmn. MR. So, what Agent [EM is asking is, well, that obviously goes to show that she went back and changed those numbers to 72, because -- EFTA00064393

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 333 MR. MR. But what is her motive -- -- that midnight -- MR. -- to do that? MR. -- she says she was just trying to make things accurate. MR. But what would be an ulterior motive that would create the idea that she was doing something wrong? MR. —. It goes back to when you asked -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. do with a cover up? MR. N'DIAYE: So, if - and granted, mistakes are made in the log - but you also annotate that in the log. Like, you will put, okay, late entry. Because typically, if you say the log is done already, when you go back and make changes, you make changes for this reason alone. An investigator comes in, looks at it, and says, well, wait a minute, it looks like you've been playing, you went back and just changed the numbers. So, you can put in there, and you say, okay, late entry, explain what your change was, and what the mistake was. 335 Mm-hmm -- is there something to that conversation with them. MR. And you weren’t - until now, it sounds like - even aware that she was at the institution after 5:30 a.m.? MR. N'DIAYE: I was told she left. MR. : Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. And again, who told you that? MR. N'DIAYE: The operations lieutenant. Because he called me and he says, hey, I relieved -- MR. : MR. N'DIAYE: _-- MR. : MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. Okay. And did you have - before we move on to the next subject - do you have any more on that? MR. :_ No. MR. So now, we are going to talk about the cameras. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. Were the SHU cameras recording on August 9th and 10th of 2019? So, ? Sorry. RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR OOD fwr mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 334 MR. MM: So, really, with this -- MR. N'DIAYE: You know? WR. WE: 9 -- to show a malicious intent in her part, there’s got to be something that influences her to protect one of the people that were - no question - were fucking around. Right? The two guys that were fucking around ended up getting pinched. Right? So, if one of them is her friend, then she's got a malicious motive to go try and cover for that guy. Like, did $8,000 (Indiscernible *03:55:58) police officer, he says, well, I thought he drew a gun on me. . N'DIAYE: Right. . And I shot him. . N'DIAYE: Yeah. . HBB: 0h, okay. Nobody else saw . N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. QM: «But you are not aware of her involvement at all, you said, or -- MR. N'DIAYE: As far as what? MR. -- covering up for them, or involvement in Epstein’s death? MR. N'DIAYE: No. She wouldn't have had 336 MR. N'DIAYE: I didn't physically go check to see if they were, were recording or not. MR. a Did you learn that they were not recording? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. We found out afterwards, that they weren't recording. MR. Wait. Wait. We had this conversation. MR. N'DIAYE: WR. WR: The cameras don’t work ina lot of these institutions. Right? MR. Yeah. Yeah. MR. All right. And that’s because they didn't spend the fucking money to make sure the cameras work. MR. N'DIAYE: Well, it’s -- MR. J: And I got to stop saying “fuck.” MR. N'DIAYE: -- that’s the issue, too, funding, and, you know, so, since that incident, I guess there was some audits done by the agency, and they realized that it was kind of a system (Indiscernible *03:57:15). MR. But you see, the issue is, should you have checked why weren’t the cameras Right. EFTA00064394

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 337 working? wR. QM: Well, that’s my question is, do you know why they were not working? MR. N'DIAYE: I don't know the specific language that was used, and what was wrong with it, because I guess, after I left, they kind of made a determination on what was why -. What was the reason. I know we were going through the process of auditing and fixing some cameras. But those specific SHU cameras, I wasn't aware of the extent. MR. Okay. quickly review -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. -- the SHU camera documentation. Were you ever provided any documents of a camera that actually was working in the SHU? MR. N'DIAYE: You mean, the day of the Epstein thing? MR. a. Right, right. At any time. MR. N'DIAYE: I don’t recall. MR. So, were you provided with this? This is right outside of -- Let’s just really Mm-hmm . 339 That looks like the Ten Yeah. The phone It looks like MR. N'DIAYE: South door. Oh, wait, wait. is -. Yeah. That is Ten South. Ten South. WR. QM: «And what are we looking at down here? MR. N'DIAYE: So, this is the, right here is the officer's station area. MR. And do you - based upon that - do you know what tier that would be right there? MR. N'DIAYE: Oh, man. You got (Indiscernible *03:59:02) stopped. Let me see. Is that Gand H tier, I think, if I remember. MR. And what would be right to the right of the officer's station? MR. N'DIAYE: Oh. Wait. G. H. I. J. A. I don't remember if that was I and J. That WR. HM: «Would this be L tier up here? MR. N'DIAYE: what -. WR. QM: «So, right up, right to the right of the officer’s station, looking at Yeah. Land M tier. That's RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww RR ae ee PRR RRR Dw wr ed ool mel ro wo Mmmenmrn Ww Wr MR. N'DIAYE: MR. MR. N'DIAYE: out of Ten South. MR. MM: | Right. Were you ever provided with that, as far as -- MR. N'DIAYE: It looks -- MR. : -- I think from -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- it looks familiar, but I “R. : -- fron i a. MR. N'DIAYE: -- he might have. MR. Okay. But you don't remember specifically? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. I don’t specific. MR. Okay. And then, just while we are here, I guess, what are these doors right to the right of this picture? MR. N'DIAYE: This door goes into Ten South. MR. : Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: And then, this one, I think is a utility room door. I'm not sure. MR. a. Okay. So, the door that says “46” goes into Ten South? This was a -- -- Ten South. -- that says camera angle this picture -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. -- would be L. that where Epstein was housed? MR. N'DIAYE: I believe he was on the L WR. MM: Okay. Do you mind just initialing and dating that? MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. MR. So, here is a map that we were previously provided. Does this look like, then -? So, this is where we were that this camera angle is focusing down here on the officer’s station. This is L tier. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. On the second level. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. And this is where Epstein would have been housed. MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. MR. QM: «Does that look right? MR. N'DIAYE: That looks right. WR. WM: kay. Is this L tier here? MR. N'DIAYE: And is tier. That's L tier. EFTA00064395

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 341 WR. MM: «Does this look like what would have been Epstein’s door? I know you can't really see because of the police crossings -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. MR. N'DIAYE: scene tape. WR. QM: «Okay. Do you have any reason to believe that that wouldn’t be Epstein’s door? MR. N'DIAYE: What do you mean? MR. As far as, I know we can't see the number -- MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. I don't know the number, but I'm taking your word for it, that that is. WR. WM: Okay. Now, if you see, this is L tier range. And at the very end, you see this camera. MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. WR. QM: Should that camera have been recording? MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Yeah. -- on it. I noticed it. The crime Yes. Okay. And is that a 343 WR. GR: §=I'm not going to get into this since he wasn’t aware that they weren’t recording. MR. Mm-hmm. MR. Boy, I'm impressed by your thoroughness, I'll tell you that much. MR. : That's why they put me on it. I'm -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Yeah. You're very thorough? MR. -- yes. MR. : You know, if you, if you are a good trial lawyer, you know, allegedly a good trial lawyer, a lot of times, you are not supposed to be thorough. You are supposed to put an idea in the jury’s head, right? Where you can see they're invulnerable, stay on that fucking idea, because if you are going to be thorough, you have to bring out something that you don’t want to bring out. You know, so you to speak to the things, but you know you got them. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. was received. Who's Yeah. So, this is an email that RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww RR ae ee PRR RRR Dw wr ed ool mel ro wo Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 342 camera that I'm actually looking at right there? MR. N'DIAYE: That is a camera. MR. :_ Was that camera recording? MR. Sir, do you know if the camera was recording? MR. N'DIAYE: I didn't see. After I left, I guess they said there were camera issues, but I don’t know what, I wasn’t provided information on what specific cameras were working or not. MR. So, they didn't tell you if they were working or not? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, remember, I was removed. MR. I just didn't know if you found out on the 10th or 11th. MR. N'DIAYE: No. I was removed on the, you know, they said there were some camera issues, and then, what they were doing, they had the FBI came in, and took hard drives, and I guess they were working to see what was working and what wasn’t working? MR. Can you initial and date that? 344 MR. N'DIAYE: He's the facilities manager. MR. Okay. So, is this what I wanted to show you? Hold on. Now, did you print out the one that I sent you this morning? MR. Is that -. That should be the last thing on the -. a. Okay. I'm not going to MR. get into those. So, you weren't aware that the cameras were not - or you are not aware if the cameras were or were not recording -- MR. N'DIAYE: We had camera -- MR. -- in the SHU? MR. N'DIAYE: -- no. We had camera issues throughout the institution. MR. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: So, I don’t know which specific one, because we had Mr. I working on a project, to get some money for it. MR. a. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: But when it came to that specific night, I didn't know if they were working or_not. MR. Were you ever told that, either on August 8th or August 9th, that the cameras were not recording in the SHU? EFTA00064396

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RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee oe od eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 345 MR. N'DIAYE: I heard - yes - I was told that there were some issues with the cameras -- MR. On either the 8th or the 9th, prior to Epstein? MR. N'DIAYE: -- no. afterwards -- MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. he is found. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. On August 9th or August 8th, even, leading up to Epstein being found, were you ever informed that cameras were not recording? MR. N'DIAYE: No. cameras. MR. I'm talking about Yeah, yeah, no -- -- when it happened. : -- I'm saying -. Yeah. -- August 10th is the day So -- I wasn't told about All right. So, based on our investigation, we learned that MCC, SIS Lieutenant Doctor -- Mm-hmm . : -- and that Aw I -- Mm-hmm . MR. N'DIAYE: MR. MR. N'DIAYE: 347 immediately replace them with the cameras that were onsite? MR. N'DIAYE: So, cameras all -. Institutions always have, like, backup cameras to fix what is there. But I was talking about funding to replace the whole system. WR. a. So, this was from fiscal year 2018 -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. -- back in September. MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmm. MR. | is a memorandum for you, from a , acting facilities manager. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. Right. R. And these are all the different documents that go with it, regarding a new camera system that was purchased. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. It was, it looks like there was $800,000. MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmm. MR. For this total. These are all the documents that - here you go - this is an approval of your September 11th, 2018 RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr MRRP RRR Pow OAS Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 346 MR. -- became aware on August 8th, 2019, that at least some of the MCC cameras were not recording. They contacted comtech , and may have also notified Captain Jermaine Did you ever hear anything about that? MR. N'DIAYE: I knew prior that there was some cameras in the institution that needed to be fixed, but not specifically the SHU, no. MR. : Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. And would have that been based upon what they found? The AW [i and SIS Lieutenant Doctor? MR. N'DIAYE: No. Because we had had some issues with cameras, and we were trying to seek funding. So, and we were trying to see, okay, what was working and what to get fixed. But specifically, in SHU, no. MR. a: All right. So, only because, you said that you were trying to get funded. Did you know that there were already cameras at the institution, and that’s what they were able to replace when the FBI took the cameras on the 10th, they were able to 348 request. So, this is a memorandum for -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. SS from, it looks like a (Phonetic Sp. *04:05:31). MR. N'DIAYE: MR. for administration. MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. MR. It says, request to exceed the spending limit of $50,000 on a work request number 8158, replace camera system at MCC New York. This work request is to replace the current degraded camera system. The total cost of this work is not to exceed $800,000." MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmm. MR. Then, at the bottom, it says, “If you have any questions, please call me or have your staff contact,” and how do you say that name? Do you know? (Phonetic Sp. *04:05:57)? MR. N'DIAYE: . MR. : the Third (Phonetic Sp. *04:06:00). Chief facility manager branch.” Mm-hmm The assistant director EFTA00064397

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RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. MR. And it says, “At the phone number.” And then, here are the, you know, the work orders for that. So, we have spoken with SigNet, who was the camera provider MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. -- they said that on or around October or November of 2018, they were delivered. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Mm-hmm And then, talking with , the (Indiscernible *04:06:22) -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. -- city manager, he said that they started working on the infrastructure of the camera project on or around March 2019. MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmm. MR. To get everything ready for the new camera system that was onsite to be installed, and said that -. MR. N'DIAYE: They had to run wires. But the old system was there. So, they had to run wires. And they had to get a contract done. 351 scheduled to start March 17th, 2019, and it started on schedule. When I arrived TDY February 2019, we only had one communication technician -- MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmm. MR. -- therefore, after talking to the regional office, they started a project to assist in funding and labor. So, we were able to start the week of March 17th, 2019 for the camera system, and all other infrastructure throughout the institution. WR. WM: St. Patrick's Day. MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. MR. Below is the email sent to all the institution from (Phonetic Sp. *04:07:49), the northeast regional -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. -- facilities administrator.” But point being, it looks like that project had started. Correct? MR. N'DIAYE: It has started, but -- MR. And I only say that because I wanted to make sure you weren’t confused, because you were saying we were RRR RRR RP RRR Re Fo wW COND SwN PrP Ow OHHH Sw NP mrN wr Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR OOD fwr mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 350 MR. Uh-huh. MR. N'DIAYE: In order, because you needed the comtechs, and I forget the wording that they used, is to run the cables, to get the new camera system in. So. MR. And do you know how long that typically takes to run the new wires and all that? MR. N'DIAYE: You would have to have the staff (Indiscernible *04:06:58). We didn't have the staffing. MR. as. So, were there two people TOY'd, though, in order to do that? MR. N'DIAYE: They started TDY’ing people in, to come in. WR. MM: Wait a minute. Can the staff run the new wires, or you have to get an electrician to run the wires? MR. N'DIAYE: No. We have staff that are qualified to do it, but then, some of them were new and really didn't know how to do it. So -- MR. : Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: -- you know, it was -. MR. So, according to Mr. HMM, it says, “The camera system was 352 looking for funding. MR. N'DIAYE: No. No. I misspoke. I'm saying is, I meant that the project started, but the cameras hadn't been replaced. Because they were still running wires for the, to get the _new system started. i. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: So, that unit still had the old cameras. WR. MM: | Right. But then, the camera system was actually onsite, and they were working on it? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, yeah, but they weren't - you didn't have enough staff to install, to, you know, to rewire the whole place, because we had, we wanted to put one, some on the ranges that never had cameras. MR. > Mm-hmm. MR. N'DIAYE: So, it was a tedious project. WR. SM: «I see. MR. N'DIAYE: That required us to TDY staff from other institutions. And then, you know -. WR. QM: Yeah. And were you kept What EFTA00064398

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 353 apprise of where they were on that? On the camera project. MR. N'DIAYE: I would acquire about it, like, where we were with it. But we were to the point where we were bringing people in from other institutions. To get it done. MR. Okay. And do you know when the camera system was scheduled to actually be installed, or was it ever scheduled? MR. N'DIAYE: From - and if I remember right - it was a matter of before you even installed it, you had to run the wiring for it. WR. a. Right. And that’s what - MR. N'DIAYE: MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. in March of 2019. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. : That -. MR. N'DIAYE: -- been completed. Because you had to TDY people there. And to get it done. (Indiscernible *04:09:13). : -- I think was -- Right. -- what they were saying But that had -- 355 So, and it would break So, I mean, we did But it was the tape, and we couldn't. down, they would fix it. have issues like that before. age of the cameras. The -- MR. Yeah. MR. N'DIAYE: -- you know, we had infrastructure issues. So. MR. Because, yeah, the comtech claims that, you know, like, he had been, I mean, he’s a very soft-spoken person, but like, basically, screaming at the top of his lungs as much as a very soft-spoken person can, we need to fix these things, this is a continual problem. MR. N'DIAYE: So, here is what it is. don't have money readily available at an institution to fix it. That money comes from what we call buildings and funds. MR. > Mm-hmm, MR. N'DIAYE: Which is funded by Congress. So, you would have to talk to somebody in the region about what the regional budget is, but other institutions have issues going on. MR. But being that -- MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. We a CWO HUDMS fWwrNP RRR PR Swr re RRR RR Wwonmnu mnmry Le mrer WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP PRR RRP RRP RRR WeonyDwVfwrNro mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 354 WR. QM: «And they never provided you with an update as far as, like, when it would actually be completed? MR. N'DIAYE: It was still ongoing. MR. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: Now -- MR. (Indiscernible *04:09:27). MR. N'DIAYE: -- but after I left, they got people in there and completed it. . : Yeah. Yeah. Because I think, I think that whole week, they were able to complete the whole thing. Correct? MR. N'DIAYE: I don’t know when. MR. : You don’t know? MR. N'DIAYE: You know, because they had people come in from different institutions. MR. Now, is that, did they ever, did the facilities manager, Captain Whomever, ever explain to you how bad the system was, and that it kept on shutting down, and stopping, you know, cameras weren't recording? MR. N'DIAYE: I mean, we would have incidents where, you know, something would happen, and we tried to go back and find the 356 MR. QM: | -- we have all these cameras already onsite, and they had already done the wiring for, you know, at least six months prior to this -- MR. N'DIAYE: Well, not all the wiring -- MR. -- they -. MR. N'DIAYE: -- was done. WR. MMMM: Yeah. He just, he didn't say the wiring was done. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. : No, no, no. I'm just saying, like, is that, I'm just trying to get a feel for what was the plan here, and who was responsible. MR. N'DIAYE: Well, the plan was to get the manpower to get it installed, but at the time, we only had one person. Which was MR. MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm . So, one person can't -- MR. Well, and the TDY staff. MR. N'DIAYE: -- right, but even the TDY staff came, they did help. You know, but then, we also had other TDY staff that were coming in for, because of our staffing issues. EFTA00064399

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRRR Ww Whe RR SD ee oll ood Wher © Wo 357 . > Mm-hmm. . N'DIAYE: But -. : Well, that’s what [i That the TDY staff that was assigned for him sometimes were getting put on the custody posts. Do you know if that is accurate or not? MR. N'DIAYE: We might have had to do it a time or two because we wanted to staff. MR. : Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. Yeah. MR. And whose responsibility were the cameras? To make sure that those things were going to be operational and working properly. MR. N'DIAYE: Well, it’s not a matter of who was responsible. It’s, like, working on getting it installed. MR. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: So, there was no deadline as far as, you know, okay, when they had to be up. You know, they just had to be installed. MR. a. Okay. Because we were told the cameras are the captain's baby. Is that accurate? 359 that that is happening is to physically check the DVR recording to see if there has a light on it, or if you try to attempt to rewind, and you are unable to. MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmm. MR. Because everything is still live monitored feed, showing, so you can't tell just by looking at the cameras. It’s only when you try to rewind them, that you can say, oh my gosh, they are not recording. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. But that, it wasn’t just as simple as that. I mean, there were technical aspects of it that you had to check to see if the cameras are working or not. MR. : Oh. Absolutely. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. And the captain basically looking to see if, okay, is the screen up? And then, is it recording? But there was some instances where the hard drives weren't working, and you don’t know that until you get deep into it, into the system. So, I wouldn’t, you know -- MR. : That's -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- put that -. wR. MB: -- that’s what he just a CWO HUDMS fWwrNP RRR PR Swr re RRR RR Wwonmnu mnmry Le mrer WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP PRR RRP RRP RRR WeonyDwVfwrNro mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr MR. N'DIAYE: ve. a: No. No. It’s not. Yeah. That -- MR. N'DIAYE: It’s not. wR. MMM: © -- that can't be true. Captains don’t know how to install it. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. He doesn’t -- MR. :_(Indiscernible *04:12:11). MR. No, no, no. Not to install them. But to make sure that they are operational, and get the right people to actually get it done. MR. N'DIAYE: Well, I -- MR. QM: That can't be right, either. MR. N'DIAYE: -- well, I -- MR. MM: Because how the fuck would you know what -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. -- right. I -- Well, because -- MR. :_-- who the right people is. MR. -- because what we were told is that this was constantly happening, whereas the cameras would stop working. And then, nothing would be recorded. MR. N'DIAYE: So -. MR. The only way you find out stated. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. Like, the fact that the only way we would know if the hard drives were not working is by going in -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. -- to check the video. And the video, there is no videos that they can pull back. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. That’s when they know the hard drives stopped recording. MR. N'DIAYE: Stopped recording. And then, and look at them. But then, this is, you know, there was other technical aspects of it that, you know -- WR. MB: I can't imagine that -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- yeah -- wR. WM: -- the captain would know. I sure as hell wouldn't. MR. N'DIAYE: -- right. MR. So, I guess, knowing, though, that this was, like, a reoccurring problem, and the fact that, well, what we didn't say is, it seems, it appears that the EFTA00064400

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRRR Ww Whe RR SD MmMYyrRe re Oo wc 361 cameras actually stopped recording all the back in July, and for half of the institution. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. Who should have made sure that that camera system was replaced, and that we had an operational camera system in there? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, the centralized area, and I don’t know where the break down was. So, if it’s a centralized area, then it would be, you know, within our facility department has access to -- MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. the cameras are? MR. N'DIAYE: -- no, the comm room. MR. Yeah. The comm room. Where these recorders were, were all in the SIS secured area. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. The actual cameras. But where - if you go out - where -? And I don't know the word, what’s the word? Where your centralized main area is for the whole system. Yeah. That SIS areas has the cameras. But that’s fine. Well, the camera -- -- the comm -- -- you are asking where 363 things fixed? MR. N'DIAYE: sent up. WR. MM: Yeah, yeah. No. MR. N'DIAYE: So, yeah. WR. QM: «And these were all onsite. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. So, yeah. we were going through -- WR. a And again -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- the process of getting the system up and running. MR. —. But there was no set schedule for when it was actually going to be completed? MR. N'DIAYE: No. Because we had to TDY people. Sometimes we got them in, sometimes we couldn’t get them. And then, towards the end, you know, boil down to money, with getting people in to come fix them. WR. QM: © And when people are TDY, do you - when you say boil down to money - does that come out of -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. I mean, the request had been IU mean, It comes out of our -- -- MCC's pocket? RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr MRRP RRR Re Pow aOAUTH nm i) mre re WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RP RRR COND eWwPR 362 MR. MM: | Not the control room. But it’s back around where, it’s a locked door within the SIS locked room, where the actual DVR recording and rack is, and everything. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's MR. N'DIAYE: MR. talking about? MR. N'DIAYE: -- that, but there is also another, should be another area in the institution, just for the communications. Where everything comes into. So, I don't know if it was back there or whatever, but our facilities department, you know, their communication guys check that, too, if there is something intricate with it. Now, so, was either Mr. , how do you pronounce his But -- -- is that what you are MR. N'DIAYE: . MR. : Was MM, or Captain HEME, were either of them expressing the need to you at all, to, hey, we need to get these 364 MR. N'DIAYE: -- it comes out of our budget. It comes out of budget. It comes out of the region sometimes gives it. Plus, on top of that, we were for TDY to come to our correctional post, because we were so short. MR. a. All right. So, what would you say is the main reason, then, that the cameras were onsite, but not installed? Lack of manpower and funding? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, manpower to get it in. And then, it kind of boiled down to funding. You know, to keep TDY people, to get it done. MR. MM: But do you have money, you can really keep the TDY people. You don't have know? MR. MM: «But again, there is no, there was no actual set schedule of it will be operational by the end of this calendar year -- MR. N'DIAYE: _No. MR. : MR. N'DIAYE: No. WR. QM: | That wasn’t discussed? Yeah. you can't keep them. You -- or anything like that? EFTA00064401

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RR SCwWOnHtDUN SwWwrP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 365 MR. N'DIAYE: That wasn’t discussed. We were trying, you know, doing the best we can with the hand we were dealt. MR. Okay. And Monday morning quarterbacking that. Should it have been discussed, or planned ahead, that these cameras be installed? MR. N'DIAYE: the question. WR. WE: Well, being that there is, it seems that there was potentially around two weeks of no cameras, and in the SHU, no cameras. Aside from that one outside of Ten South. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Would -? I don't understand Right. That were recording. MR. N'DIAYE: But that wasn’t known -- MR. But it was, according to the, you know, according to the facilities, as well as the comtech, they said it was very well known that this continually happened, and that the comtech guy continually had to rebuild hard drives because they kept on crapping out and not recording. MR. N'DIAYE: I mean, it is an antiquated 367 WR. QM: August 8th. When the AW and the Lieutenant Doctor went in and they tried to MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. N'DIAYE: -- review video. Now, being that they identified the system wasn’t working that day -- MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. MR. MM: = -- how soon should it have been fixed? MR. N'DIAYE: What do you mean? When they WR. J: On the sth. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. This is two days before that Epstein was found. If they identified on the 8th that, hey, listen, the camera is not working. It’s technically not recording. much of a priority is it to make sure that those cameras are up and running immediately? MR. N'DIAYE: It’s a priority. So, what happens is, and we have run into this before, the parts. Sometimes the parts weren't readily available. So, you have to go somewhere and call for the parts, and depending on where it 2 How a CWO HUDMS fWwrNP —— COUT fwr re mnmry Le mrer WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP PRR RRP RRP RRR WeonyDwVfwrNro mre reo mr wh nm w Right, right, right. So, when you go down, yeah, obviously, you go fix it. But nobody knew until after the fact that you, you know, that you had a system that was out for two weeks. You know, I mean, you go to any other, any institution, the cameras go down. MR. Sure, sure. MR. N'DIAYE: And when the system breaks, somebody discovers it, and they fix it. But as far as getting the new system up, we were working on it. MR. up with any of that? MR. : You mentioned no one knew. But the problem was, according to the comtech, the system failed, the motherboard had to be replaced on the 29th -- MR. N'DIAYE: = Mm-hmm. WR. MM: -- they had a failure. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. And then, of course, no one checked it until the 8th. MR. N'DIAYE: = Mm-hmm. Okay. You want to follow 368 is at, it could be in California, or whatever. So, you got to see how long it takes to get that part. wR. ME: Yeah. MR. N'DIAYE: Over to repair. wR. BBB: And the key part for my heating system -- MR. N'DIAYE: wR. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. My understanding is they, it was the hard drive that they needed. Right? And the hard drive was sitting with the computer services. MR. Yeah. weren't able to get it. MR. N'DIAYE: I don't know. MR. : Yeah. MR. And on the 9th, they got it. But then, he claims that he wasn't able to gain access to the room because it was an SIS shop, and he needed to go until later in the day, and they were gone. MR. N'DIAYE: I mean -- WR. GE: And on the 10th -. Yeah. -- is in fucking Belarus. On the 8th. They EFTA00064402

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RR SCwWOnHtDUN SwWwrP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 369 MR. N'DIAYE: -- we have an emergency keys to get into any area of the institution. So, if he is saying he couldn't get in to the SIS office -- wR. | Min-hnn, MR. N'DIAYE: -- you got the captain, you know, we got the techs that work in there. We've got their glass is behind - what we call in control center - behind a box. You know, we can get that box open. MR. — So, he said that the only way to be able to get into it is if he broke the glass -- MR. N'DIAYE: He can break the glass. MR. : -- mm-hmm. It’s okay that he would have done that? And then, should have he? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. If you couldn't reach, you could just -. Well, he should have gone to the captain or somebody and said, hey, captain, I need to get into your SIS office. MR . Do you think it’s at all acceptable, if knew on August 8th that these cameras were down, and he didn't actually start working on it, or at least, I guess he was 371 he bring up the issue to? Because my thing is, if you know it’s an emergency, and it's a situation to say this is the MCC, is a cop-out. WR. a. And is it, would that be classified as an emergency? MR. N'DIAYE: If the cameras are down, yeah. WR. QM: That is an emergency. So MR. N'DIAYE: Let’s get them back. MR. -- he should have absolutely gotten into that room -- MR. N'DIAYE: He should have gotten -- MR. : == one way or another? MR. N'DIAYE: -- in there, and he knows he could have gotten into the room, because you can, we can break - if he said that stuff was sitting in there, whatever room he said it in there, guess what? You can break glass. You can break glass after hours, if you need to, and it’s an emergency to get in, into an area. MR. a. So, his claim is that, he has rebuilt these things so many times. And every knew that these cameras needed to be reinstalled, and he had been saying that they a CWO HUDMS fWwrNP —— COUT fwr re mre nd MmmrenNrn Ww WPM Wey DHfwrP PRR RRP RRP RRR WeonyDwVfwrNro mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 370 working on getting the parts, but then got the parts again on the, some time on the 9th, claims he didn't work on it because he couldn’t get into it, into the SIS office. So, he was going to work on it on the 10th, on that Saturday. MR. N'DIAYE: So, the question -- MR. -- and what is your -? MR. N'DIAYE: -- the question I would pose to you is, did he notify anybody that he couldn’t get in there? Did he make any attempt to contact the captain, or anybody to say, hey, I need to get into that office to get a part to do it, because if he had told the captain that, the captain would have got that office open for him. WR. QM: Yeah. 1 agree with you. It's a he says that the MCC was a different -. So, at any other BOP institution, in the country, that would have happened with, his experience taught him that, at the MCC, basically it could wait until tomorrow. WR. MBB: They wait until tomorrow. MR. N'DIAYE: So, that’s his opinion. But again, I'm going to pose a question. Who did 372 needed to be reinstalled. And now he's being looked at_as the fall guy. MR. You know, it sounds like he could, you know -. MR. N'DIAYE: I don't -. issue of being the fall guy. 0. MM: Right. MR. N'DIAYE: So, let’s take every issue we just talked about. We talked about the camera project that we were working on. i ohn. MR. N'DIAYE: We were getting the people in there to working. So now, let’s talk about the specific issue that you were talking about. He did not notify anybody to get into that room, to get to that part. That part was to fix the current system. It had nothing to do with the new system coming in. This is, he is saying that this was a part that we needed to fix, get put in, to deal with the current . roms Ee what about the fact that Lieutenant is saying both she and the AW knew that the cameras were down on August 8th. They told MMMM to fix them. And This is not an EFTA00064403

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 373 they also notified Lieutenant MM so that she not only notified the captain, but wrote a memo and provided it to him about the cameras being down on the 8th. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. So, at that point, what are the responsibility of the captain and the Aw? MR. N'DIAYE: So, what the captain does is he notifies facilities where = works for, and says, hey, the cameras are broken, you need to fix them. WR. QM: §=So, should the captain have, on the 9th, ensured that those things were fixed? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, I don’t know what conversation he had with facilities to say we are getting, you know, was it being fixed or not. WR. WM: Well, do you know (Indiscernible *04:23:25). If he knows to tell somebody on the 9th, is it possible to fix it on the 9th? WR. QM: Well, the 9th isa Friday. So, the 8th is when we are told that 375 some follow up. I don’t want to speak on it, but you know, if he had told him something on the 8th, you know, I don't know the conversations that were taking place between them. Like, where is that, and what is he saying? Right now, I'm responding to what he is saying, and it makes no sense. MR. Yeah. No. I would just think that, you know, being a captain or an AW would be -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. -- whoa. down in the institution? MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. Well, let’s make sure that those things are back up -- MR. N'DIAYE: So, and -- MR. -- so they would at least check back in on the 9th, and say -- MR. N'DIAYE: _-- and then -- MR. -- where are we at on this thing? MR. N'DIAYE: == but then, I don’t know, you know, what that conversation was. I don't know if, on the 9th, IMM even came to work. The cameras are RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR Oo OUD wr mre reo Mmmenmrn Ww Wr he was told, informed, learned. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. So, we have all Friday on the 9th to make sure it’s done. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. On the 10th, unfortunately, is when -- MR. N'DIAYE: But -- MR. -- we know the severity of the issue. MR. N'DIAYE: -- but that’s my point. You knew that, okay, you were made aware that the cameras needed to be fixed. Okay. So, your answers, what you are saying is, I couldn’t get into a certain area, so -- MR. Well, that’s what [i is saying. Yeah. MR. N'DIAYE: -- but that, okay, but -- MR. But my question is, should the AW or the captain have followed up with that, to make sure that it was actually being done. MR. N'DIAYE: And to them, I don’t, you know, I don’t want to make the assumption because I don’t know. There could have been 376 . Right. . N'DIAYE: I don’t know. He could have . Well, we do -- . N'DIAYE: -- oh, well, I'm not going - : == we know. -- huh? And we know. Right. . : Yeah. . N'DIAYE: So, I don't know. I don’t want to speculate on that part. MR. =. Yeah, yeah, no. That's what we are trying to tell you. Is, like -- . N'DIAYE: Right. . : -+ we know he was there. Right. On the 8th, he couldn’t get the parts. On the 9th, he got the parts. But then, he said, he tried to get into the SIS office. He was told by the - it wasn't an SIS tech, because there were only two people there. It was somebody that -- MR. : Monitored. . But yeah. . N'DIAYE: ~ N'DIAYE: . N'DIAYE: EFTA00064404

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rR CSCwWOmOANDMDS fWwNHP RPRRRR We WN Re RR SD ee ee od Se wWwNr Ow CO RPE RP RP RRR rE rm SOW SwMre re COW ON DW Sw wr “ ae ee od WS Wr rs © Ww oc MR. -- monitored the telephones. I think he’s now retired. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. : Was there. And he said, I'm getting ready to leave, and he can't come in here without me. And then, he said, I didn't have access to the room after that. So, my plan was to come in on the 10th, the Saturday, because I was coming in anyway. And that’s what I was going to work on. MR. N'DIAYE: He's the com shop. go anywhere, where there are computers. MR. a: So, that is not an acceptable answer that he provided? MR. N'DIAYE: I don't understand that answer. WR. SM: Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: It’s because that room is not in where the SIS shop is. That’s the phone monitor room. That's the camera room. WR. MBM: And the key for the camera room is how, I think it’s only the SIS lieutenant, and the SIA that has the keys for it. WR. MM: That’s what the SIs MR. N'DIAYE: hey, I need -- MR. : MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. He can 379 You can go to them and say, .. I need the key. -- now, did either the captain or the AW inform you of this issue? MR. N'DIAYE: MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. MR. N'DIAYE: that issue. MR. No. I don’t -- So, you didn't know -- -- I don’t -- -- anything about this? -- recall anything about : Should have they? MR. N'DIAYE: So, if -- MR. If it was a Thursday, they found out, and it was all -. You weren’t there for that. . N'DIAYE: I weren’t there on Friday. Okay. I wasn’t there on Friday. . : You weren’t even -- . N'DIAYE: _ Yeah. -- there on Friday. So, you know -. * N'DIAYE: ~ N'DIAYE: RR ROW OHMS fwrNP —— wr RPRRR oN Du ee od Wwrerow mre oe RR ae ee RR i) MRRP RRR RRR POoOwCmBADH ew Mmmenmrn Ww Wr office said -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. -- they said that - MR. N'DIAYE: -- the phone monitor is, he’s in the SIS, but he draws keys to get into that room. So, that room is all -. And you can draw keys to get into that room. MR. = Yeah. MR. : When you saw draw keys, what do you mean? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, you get them from control center. MR. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Well, we were told by Lieutenant the only way he could have gotten them is to break the glass, which he could have done. But -. MR. N'DIAYE: You could have broken the glass. And that time of time it was 8:00. The captain is there. The security officer who controls all the keys in the institution is there. WR. ME: | Right. 380 MR. QM: | And who - I'm sorry - can you remind me, who was acting in your stead on Friday? MR. N'DIAYE: I believe it was [mM HB, | think. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. there. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. * a Our understanding is, I think Captain was in the institution, too, about 8:00 p.m. . N'DIAYE: So, the -- : Okay. Yeah. You know? : Okay. So. : Now -- : Okay. Yeah. So, you weren’t even Mm-hmm On the 9th. . : On the 9th. . N'DIAYE: Right. : So -- On Friday. MR. : -- could have been to any time during that period? MR. N'DIAYE: He could have seen him. I EFTA00064405

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 381 mean, just, you can't -. If it's an emergency to get something for, I don’t understand. That is not -. WR. QM: No. That's great to know. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. About this. that's not acceptable. MR. N'DIAYE: No. You can, you can get in there. So, I don’t know -. vR. MMI: Well, one of the things is, is in prison, you need a camera. Yeah. EEE Bight Especially in the : Right. Especially in the SHU. . Now, who was responsible to have the new camera system installed? MR. N'DIAYE: What do you mean as far as responsible? MR. oversight on that? MR. N'DIAYE: The facilities manager. MR. : Mr. MR. N'DIAYE: Mr. So, you say Like, who had overall . Yeah. So, he - 383 issues? WR. WM: No. I think the -. We have one more issue, and then just a couple of questions based upon the BOP’s findings. It does say that there's leaks information. Where are those emails? MR. It was in -. up? WR. MM: Here it is. So, here is two emails that were sent both from . One to you, and one to I = (Phonetic Sp. *04:29:13). MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. director at the time. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. Okay. So, the first one was on August 10th, 2019, at 6:14 p.m. to you. And the subject is, “Urgent request. Potential leak in hospital regarding Epstein’s death.” MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmm. It looks like -- You mean -- -- where is the -- -- media leak? Did we mix that He was the acting Director of the BOP? RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww RR ae ee PRR RRR Dw wr ed ool mel ro wo Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 382 MR. PY: 01 right. MR. N'DIAYE: -- gets the people in there, but we’re allocating things. But again, I want to say, that was, you know, with manpower. MR. a. Okay. Now, you’ve pretty much answered this, and you can say it’s the same answer, but I just want to read you the question. What are your thoughts on the fact that the new camera system was there since October 2018, but it wasn’t installed after the Epstein incident that occurred on August 10th, 2019? MR. N'DIAYE: MR. : Manpower. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. You know, getting people, qualified people in there to do it. I mean, one person couldn’t do that. It was, and we were putting in new cameras in new areas. So, he needed more people. One person couldn't do it. WR. MM: Okay. Do you mind just initialing? And don't have to go through this, just the top is fine. Anything more on the camera issue? ”. WR. QM: -- yeah. It says, “Please ensure this information is given to the OIG FBI. Thanks.” MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. And then, this next one, like you said, is from [J to the director. Subject, “Prison guards skip mandatory checks before Epstein’s death." This, the body says, “Couldn’t see the entire article on my phone, but I wouldn’t be surprised there are staff that are paid contacts for local media outlets. This has also been discussed at the department level, all the way to the White House. And who knows who may have overheard those discussions.” MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. MR. Do you know anything about leaks in the media from the MCC? MR. N'DIAYE: So, what happened was, when (Phonetic Sp. *04:30:17) came to see me, the issue we had was - and I told him about it - was there was a article in the Post that took a picture of our staff, and our staff rode with Epstein on it. So, I told I about it, and I guess they said one of the paramedics had It’s the manpower. Oh, Christ. You got more 384 EFTA00064406

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 385 leaked the information. MR. Like, took a picture of them, like -- MR. N'DIAYE: Took a picture -- MR. -- posing with him? MR. N'DIAYE: -- took a picture of them coming in the room, when they got to the emergency room. Took a picture of Epstein being rolled in. And our - what do you call it? - and our staff. So, I talked to about that, and then, I had also told him that, you Know, there might be some staff, you know, because, and I didn't know where it was coming from, because the information was just coming out, you know, so quickly, and it was, like, where is this, you know, coming from? So, I called and made him aware, you know, told him about it when he came on Sunday. But the main one was because of the picture in the Post. MR. Now, who is it that you suspect would have been leaking information to him? MR. N'DIAYE: I couldn’t, I couldn't even tell. But I just was, you know, with this whole thing. You know, stuff would leak, had 387 you? MR. N'DIAYE: -- yeah. It reverted back WR. SY: | Uh-huh. MR. N'DIAYE: So, I mean, that's, you know, and_it was just, it was fast and furious. MR. a. So, like, negative things to people, you believe someone in the BOP was leaking negative information about you? MR. N'DIAYE: I don't -. I mean, I, you know -- MR. Can you give me, like, an example of what was leaked about you? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, I mean, you know, stuff that happened, you know -- MR. Listen, the -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- and I'm not saying -- WR. MB: -- (indiscernible *04:32:26) investigation was going on. MR. N'DIAYE: -- specifically -- WR. QR: I mean, you know -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- specifically -- MR. -- whose fault is it? MR. N'DIAYE: -- right. Towards me. But it was just automatically the blame was, you PRR RR Se ee a RPRRR COND mreNyre rmrROow mrer WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR OOD fwr mre reo mr wh nm w 386 been leaked out to the media, and you are, like, where is this coming from? MR. Do you have any suspicions, though? MR. N'DIAYE: I can't speculate. I mean - MR. MM: That's my boy. I mean, I don't know nothing. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. attorney. MR. N'DIAYE: No, I mean -- WR. QM: But like that, I don’t know nothing, but what I do know, I don’t know. MR. N'DIAYE: I mean, I can't speculate. I mean, the half of it was towards me. I mean, 50 -. WR. QM: | Did you leak the information, you mean? MR. N'DIAYE: No. WR. QM: | 0h, you mean the information -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. (Indiscernible *04:31:48). You’re talking like an I said it was towards me. Like, the negative press -- -- and the negative to know, put on me. MR. Mm-hmm . MR. N'DIAYE: And then, you know, the other part of it was, I don’t know if it came from the department. I don't know if it came from the institution. MR. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: Because all that information was going, you know -- MR. —. But did anybody -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- up on different levels. MR. -- did anyone tell you that they believed that a certain person was Jeaking information? MR. N'DIAYE: No. I didn't hear if it was a certain person. I didn't, you know? MR. a. Okay. And did you leak any information to the media? MR. N'DIAYE: Absolutely not. MR. Okay. Do you mind just initialing and dating that? Do you believe, though, somebody in the BOP was leaking information? MR. N'DIAYE: MR. And I’m not -- And I don’t mean that EFTA00064407

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm personally. I just mean -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- no. But -- wR. QM: -- you know, you could always get -- MR. N'DIAYE: - I don’t -- wR. MM: -- the second one under there. MR. N'DIAYE: -- it could have been up to the department, because the information was going up to them. I mean -- MR. But I just mean, like, based upon what information was being leaked, do you believe that someone in the BOP - not necessarily the MCC, I just mean BOP - was leaking the information? MR. N'DIAYE: I will put it this way. Department of Justice might -- wR. QM: Yeah. MR. N'DIAYE: -- because all the information -- The Because it could be -- -- was -. Yeah. -- OIG. FBI. Initial. Anybody. ~ NIDIAYE: true? . N'DIAYE: Don’t know. : Okay. He left this all to his brother. Right? : I-- Is that true? : -- I can't comment on that kind of stuff. But what actions should have been taken, or you don’t know if it was. If it was learned that Epstein’s will had been changed just prior to his death, do you believe any specific actions should have been taken? MR. N'DIAYE: I don't know anything. I mean, I can't comment on that. WR. MMM: Okay. So, that’s the last of the topics. Now, we have - (Indiscernible *04:34:38) refer to it - I don’t think we have to refer to anything other than the - where is that? MR. : The after action? MR. : Yeah. Do you have it? And I don't know what we actually need to cite (Indiscernible *04:34:53) initial them. This is the after action report. Is that -? That RR ae ee PRR RRR Dw wr ed ool mel ro wo Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 390 MR. N'DIAYE: It could have been anybody. So, I don't want to -- WR. MM: | Gotcha. MR. N'DIAYE: -- kind of put it -- MR. SE: 9 Sure. MR. N'DIAYE: _-- on one person. WR. MM: 41] right. The last actual topic, before we ask a couple about the, a couple about the findings. Epstein’s will. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. MM: «Do you know anything about Epstein changing his will just prior to his death? MR. N'DIAYE: Mo. MR. QM: Had you ever heard that? MR. N'DIAYE: After the fact. WR. QM: Right. And when you say after the fact, how did you learn about it after the fact? MR. N'DIAYE: I don’t know. Reading it. Or hearing it on the news. MR. =. Did you ever hear about it in an official capacity? MR. N'DIAYE: _No. WR. MM: | A01 right. Do you know 392 the BOP created in response. So, just a few quick questions on it. It says, “On August Ist, 2019, at 8:30 a.m., psychology documented they were notified by correctional systems of a form received from the United States Marshal Service, the previous day, stating inmate Epstein had reported suicidal tendencies.” MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmn. MR. I: = Do you know anything about that, and what transpired? MR. N'DIAYE: Wait. Read that again. MR. MM: So, “On August.” So, just to refresh your memory of a time, timeline. On July 30th, he comes off of psychological -- MR. N'DIAYE: Psychological observation. MR. : = observation. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. QM: “And goes to the SHU. “Two days later” - so, there’s July 31st and August Ist - “8:30 a.m., psychology documented they were notified by correctional systems of a form received from the United States Marshal Service, the previous day.” So, I guess on July 30th. EFTA00064408

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. MR. The 31st, I mean. “Stating inmate Epstein had reported suicidal tendencies.” This was the BOP’s finding. Do you know anything about that? MR. N'DIAYE: I don’t know anything about that. And that's before, when he first came in the system, or -? MR. : No. That was after he came off of psychological observation. So, after his actual first attempt at suicide. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. Or potential harm from MR. N'DIAYE: _No. MR. about that? MR. N'DIAYE: _Nuh-uh. MR. Okay. And do you know anything about the suicidal tendencies that he was showing? MR. N'DIAYE: _No. WR. MM: No. Al] right. And then, on the same date, August Ist, 2019, again, this is after the P| incident. 395 I didn't. You don’t know anything next one. It says, “Significant -- WR. WEB: Don’t bring this guy in on another case. All right? If the next time this comes up, and he says, I'm going to bring this guy, don’t fucking do it. MR. It says, “Significant discrepancies exist within Sentry, regarding admission/release status, ARS.” MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. Sentry does not reflect inmate Epstein being escorted from the institution by the U.S. Marshal Service on July 31st, 2019. Although a signed prisoner remand form is on file, documenting -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. : -+ having received him from the U.S. Marshal Service. Additional review revealed inmate Epstein departed the institution for a total of four court appearances, and only one of these occasions was an ARS change made within Sentry. It appears there is a culture of foregoing this vital function, due to the likelihood of the inmate returning from court. This lapse in procedure is a severe inmate accountability Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR Oo OUD wr mre reo Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 394 MR. N'DIAYE: MR. And after coming off of psychological observation. “1:00 p.m. Psychology conducts a suicide risk assessment noting watch is not indicated, with a recommendation for follow up in one week. The delay in conducting this assessment is not justified in the report.” Did you learn anything about that? . N'DIAYE: No. Mm-hmm I don’t. : Yeah, yeah. I -- And again -- -- it’s psychological. -- this is just some of ~ N'DIAYE: ~ N'DIAYE: : Yeah. : -- the negative findings. Okay. . We just want to know your it. I don’t expect you to know any, all of this, or anything. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. It's just asking because there's some negative findings. Okay. The ~ N'DIAYE: deficiency.” MR. N'DIAYE: Well, that statement is incorrect. I know the regional office looked into it and said that a pre-trial institution can outcount an inmate to go into court. So, he doesn’t have to be keyed out on the ARS. MR. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: So, the way they were doing it, they looked at it after the fact, and said there was_nothing wrong with that. MR. a. So, they did re-review this matter, and -- . N'DTAYE: Yes. . : -+ said that there was -- . N'DIAYE: They were fine -- : == they were doing it -- -- with it. . : Okay. . N'DIAYE: Yeah. Because they kept thinking, when they were looking out, same thing like you said, he was going out to court, but they can outcount him in that area. R. All right. And what are they talking about, like, pre-removing him or something like that, when he goes to court? N'DIAYE: EFTA00064409

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm MR. N'DIAYE: No. Going to court. MR. : Yeah, yeah. MR. N'DIAYE: And if anyone is going to court, because you have so much court movement that you can outcount them. And then, when the Marshals say, hey, he’s not going out, then you release him out of -- MR. : So, this is -- : Okay. : -+ this means, on the E1, he MR. MR. would be listed on the outcount? MR. N'DIAYE: As court. WR. QR: As court. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. + Okay. MR. And that’s what they were actually doing? . N'DIAYE: That's what they were doing. > Okay. They had him on the £1. > So -- Yeah. -- $0, this is no longer * N'DIAYE: ~ NIDIAYE: . N'DIAYE: That's not -- 399 where that conclusion came from because from what I gather, they couldn't get - they couldn’t find the -. Because usually -- MR. Well, they found the 292s, but they were just very limited. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. The 292s usually had to have everything indicated on it. So -. MR. a. And on that note, we were told the 292, his file, was extremely small, and it should have been larger. Had you heard anything about people removing documents from files? MR. N'DIAYE: From what I understand, and was told, that there was no file. They couldn’t -. They had every other inmates file, but not his. MR. They couldn't even find it. You didn't think they could find his file at all? MR. N'DIAYE: No. me. MR. : And who told you that? MR. N'DIAYE: I think I heard that after the fact. I don’t know if the regional director told me after they came in and did the That's what was told to RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR Oo OUD wr mre reo Mmmenmrn Ww Wr MR. -- an issue. MR. N'DIAYE: -- an issue. MR. All right. The next one, it says, “No notations concerning a requirement for a cellmate were entered into the SHU program, and subsequently available for SHU officers to reference.” Who would have been responsible for noting that in the SHU program? MR. N'DIAYE: So -. WR. MR: | First of all, what is the SHU program? MR. N'DIAYE: The SHU program is -- MR. Is that the 292? MR. N'DIAYE: -- with the 292s. So, I don't know, from what I understand, and was told after the fact, that they couldn't find the information on Epstein in the SHU program. So, I don't know how you came to that conclusion. MR. MM: By the way, let the record indicate that he is not sweating under his armpits. A good sign. MR. a. We didn't. BOP came to these conclusions. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. So, I don't know 400 check, that they couldn’t find it. So, I don't know. MR. : That's after they found out the -- MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. WR. WB: © -- came down and had them (Indiscernible *04:40:44) a certain (Indiscernible *04:40:45). MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. But back to the original question, whether it was there or not. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. If it, the cellmate requirement was not entered in the SHU program, who should have made sure that it was? MR. N'DIAYE: On the, in the 292? And I don’t know who was doing it. It should have been the lieutenant, to ensuring that it’s al] in there. MR. So, the SHU lieutenant? MR. N'DIAYE: When they - yeah - when they deny it, or the OIC. So, if the captain conveyed the information to him, that should have been put on the 292. MR. =. So, either -- EFTA00064410

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 PRR RRR RR NDMP WNPRPOWOHDH SWwNP ae ee od WS Wr rs © Ww oc 401 . N'DIAYE: By the lieutenant. -- the SHU lieutenant or . N'DIAYE: Yeah. . Now, when you say the OIC, does one OIC of one shift take more responsibility than another? MR. N'DIAYE: No. They are all on the same shift. So, it would depend on -- MR. So, like, for instance, HE was the OIC on the day watch, but -- MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmm. WR. QR: -- 1 think QB was the QIC on the night watch. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. So, would one of them had more of a responsibility to do this than another? MR. N'DIAYE: No. But that should have been done on the initial, when the directive was put out. MR. So, from Doctor, or Ms. HB saying that here’s coming off of psychological observation, he needs to be housed with a cellmate -- 403 8:00 a.m. Inmate [MM, the cellmate, departs for court.” MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. Again, this claims court, but if they are seeing WAB. Actually, you know what? I heard WAB was specific to MCC. Is that correct? MR. N'DIAYE: Other institutions will tell you pack up your inmates with all belongings. That's, you know -- MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. -- on their findings, they are showing that he departed for court. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. WR. QM: | Although, a1] the documentation we showed says WAB. MR. N'DIAYE: _WAB. MR. And transferred. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. And it says -- MR. So, even on here, they are getting this wrong? MR. N'DIAYE: And that’s what the whole confusion is, is the assumption that he was going to court -- Because even -- RR ROW OHMS fwrNP —— wr RPRRR oN Du ee od Wwrerow mr oe RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr MRRP RRR Pow OAS 402 MR. N'DIAYE: Right. That would have been MR. MR. N'DIAYE: -- on July 30th. -- put out, and then, when - MR. So, who, at that time, should have noted that in his file? MR. N'DIAYE: Well, you would probably have to find out from the captain who he directed to -- MR. Well, the captain -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- to doing that. MR. -- according to his, you know, his memo that he sent to you -- MR. N'DIAYE: —_Mm-hmm. MR. -- it says that he specifically had these conversations on multiple occasions, with -- MR. N'DIAYE: The SHU -- MR. : -- Lieutenant J. MR. N'DIAYE: -- right. So, it would have been the SHU lieutenant. Whichever one he had. If MBM was the one, then I would have been the one. But -- MR. Okay. “August 9th, 2019. 404 MR. QM: Because then it says -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- when you look at the document -- ve. a: -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- go MR. > oo says, “Inmate does institution.” MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. So, and this was when a lot of things, when we were first starting this investigation, we heard was court, court, didn't return from court. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. And then, when we actually looked through the record, we were, like -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. : == court. It's -. MR. N'DIAYE: I think people thought, without looking at the documentation, that he went to court and got released from court. ‘i, I Ocay. MR. N'DIAYE: So. MR. MM: So then, I'm just going $0 -- ahead. yeah, and then, it not return to the Right. EFTA00064411

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRRRR SOD Se Wwh 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SCwWOnHtDUN SwWwrP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 405 to read the question. If the documents list HM as being WAB, and if they had the transfer list, why did they say he went to court and did not return? MR. N'DIAYE: I can't answer that. MR. Okay. “7:00 p.m, Epstein was provided a social call by the institutional duty officer.” Does that mean MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. He was the duty officer at_that time, I believe. MR. And what does the institutional duty officer mean? MR. N'DIAYE: So, what the duty officer is, is after hours, they walk around and, you know, report emergencies, you know -. MR. =. Is that, like, the highest ranking official there? MR. N'DIAYE: That comes on at night. know, there with the lieutenants. But they just make sure that if we had any issues, you know, addressing inmate issues, stuff like that. MR. : So, they are kind of, like, the, basically the OIC for the You 407 extremely concerning. MR. Okay. “On August 9th, 2019, during a shift change in SHU, the SHU number three, 6:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m., officer briefed his 2:00 p.m. to 10:00 relief, and the other two, 8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. officers, with the likelihood inmate P| would not be returning, and inmate Epstein would require a cellmate upon return from an attorney visit. Inmate Epstein was not placed with a cellmate upon his return to SHU.” My question to you is, just, how did they know this information? How would they have obtained that information? Do you know? MR. N'DIAYE: I don’t know. Like I said, I don’t know who they spoke to during this after action. MR. interviews, though? MR. N'DIAYE: MR. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. : Were they authorized, though, if OIG and FBI are doing an investigation, is the after action team Were they doing I wasn’t there. Okay. a CWO HUDMS fWwrNP —— COUT fwr re mre nd MmmrenNrn Ww WPM Wey DHfwrP PRR RRP RRP RRR WeonyDwVfwrNro mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 406 institution? MR. N'DIAYE: Kind of. I wouldn’t say the OIC, but ou know, senior staff around. MR. a. Okay. “This call was done on an unmonitored line. It is extremely concerning why this call would have been placed, and why it would be done on an unmonitored line. Without further interviews, it is not possible to determine the reason for this call.” Just, why does it say, “extremely concerning”? MR. N'DIAYE: report -- WR. GM: «but I mean, do you also find it extremely concerning? Would you classify it as extremely concerning? MR. N'DIAYE: I mean, it would be -. I mean, that the choice of words that they use. So, I wouldn’t, you know, necessarily say, use the word extremely concerning. But I would think, I would -- MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. MR. N'DIAYE: I don't know. Both are It's certainly wrong. -- it would be -- But -. -- it was an issue. But 408 authorized to come in and interview people? MR. N'DIAYE: So, I've done after actions. And there is a point where you come to it, where you, if it's an OIG or FBI investigation, that I can't. I mean, I can't question certain people because it might impede an investigation. Like, if you are going to look at video and all that stuff, or look at it, you can't because most of the time, it’s been taken. So, I don’t know -. WR. GAM So, possibly from that memo, though, that was created? If they are not really supposed to be doing. I mean, I'm assuming they are not really supposed to be doing interviews. MR. N'DIAYE: I mean, I don't know who authorized them to come in and do the investigation. I don't know. It was, you know, who set the parameters on it. I can't speak on that. WR. QM: And is it a normal for them to do something like this, when there is an actual FBI and OIG investigation? MR. N'DIAYE: We do after actions. don't know -. So, I EFTA00064412

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 409 WR. RM: «But I mean, do they do after actions typically, when there is an open, criminal investigation, though? MR. N'DIAYE: Not typically. MR. : No? MR. N'DIAYE: So, I don't know. And again, I don’t want to speculate. I don’t know who authorized it. I don't know if they got permission from the department to come down and do it. Idon’t want to -. MR. Sure. “August 10th, 2019.” So, this is the day of. MR. N'DIAYE: — Mm-hmm. WR. QR: “6:33 a.m. A body alarm is activated in the Special Housing Unit. SHU staff report inmate Epstein was unresponsive in cell 206-220LAD. Sentry does not reflect this accurately. Staff entered the cell and attempted to wake Epstein. Control center announced a medical emergency, and cardiopulmonary resuscitation,” or CPR, “was initiated.” So, the question here is, I guess I'll start with. Well, the information that we have is Michael Thomas and Noel were there. Michael Thomas immediately went into the cell. 411 And guess what? You're the only person there. Now, he has the keys for every range door on that door. WR. MB: Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: And you can lose -- wR. GE: | Mm-hmm. MR. N'DIAYE: -- you can lose the unit. WR. MMMM: Okay. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: So -- wR. WB: Yeah. Okay. I made a mistake. . N'DIAYE: -- that wasn’t -- : That's the first time -- So, he did not. . : == you make a notation, (Indiscernible *04:48:23). MR. So, he didn’t appropriately (Indiscernible *04:48:25)? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. He didn't appropriately. MR. a. And should have he known that from his training experience? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. Yeah. MR. “7:36 a.m., inmate Epstein pronounced dead by the emergency room MR a CWO HUDMS fWwrNP RRR PR Swr re RRR RR Wwonmnu mnmry Le mrer WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP PRR RRP RRP RRR WeonyDwVfwrNro mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 410 MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Mm-hmm . Upon finding Epstein. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm., MR. Was it appropriate for him to immediately go into the cell? Or should have he waited for staff to arrive on site? MR. N'DIAYE: You should be -- wR. : What? MR. N'DIAYE: -- you're trained -- WR. WEBB: To go into the cell, I would think. MR. N'DIAYE: -- no, you wait for enough staff to get there, and a lieutenant, before you open that door. MR. Is that right? MR. N'DIAYE: = Mm-hmm. WR. QJ: In other words, suppose the fucking guy is in seizure. MR. N'DIAYE: Well, the flip side of it is, he could be trying -- 1, MII: Renenber —- MR. N'DIAYE: -- he could be feigning it. MR. : -- we're in a prison. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. He could be feigning the suicide, and then come on and attack you. 412 physician. And we've already addressed this. My question was, was Epstein alive, or did he show signs of -? But we dug into that plenty. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. “On August 10th, 2019, the two assigned morning watch SHU officers failed to make their designated rounds, or count the SHU inmates for two counts. At 6:33 a.m., upon finding inmate Epstein unresponsive in his cell, with a torn bedsheet around his neck, staff utilized the body alarm to initiate a call for assistance. The medical response to the incident was timely, efficient, and exhaustive. Staff utilized an AED, as well as a continuous CPR unit care was assumed by EMS personnel.” Are you aware of how - what information they obtained to say that the SHU officers failed to make their designated rounds or counts? MR. N'DIAYE: I don’t know. MR. No? And I just say this because I know, in reviewing the emails, a lot of this information was provided from you to , and was providing it to whomever, that were -- EFTA00064413

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RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm MR. N'DIAYE: MR. though. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. So, I was assuming, in drafting these questions, that a lot of this information came from you. MR. N'DIAYE: But I wasn't here when this Right. -- was doing this, WR. WM: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think a lot of this stuff, though, was provided, you know -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. -- during the email review, those first couple of days. MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. MR. So, that’s why I'm asking these questions, is, like, do you know where this information came from? MR. N'DIAYE: No, I don’t. MR. No? MR. N'DIAYE: _Hmm-me. MR. Okay. “Institution duty officers do not routinely visit SHU each day, as required by the institution supplement. 415 Make sure there are no issues. MR. And is that, like you said, the idea was the guy that's on at night? MR. N'DIAYE: That's the duty officer The institution duty officer MR. : Always at night, though? MR. N'DIAYE: They use - they typically work from, like, 1:00 to 9:00, 12:00 to 9:00. They cover the evening shift. MR. Because I thought it was explained to me, it was kind of, like, the person in charge when you are not here. MR. N'DIAYE: Well, yeah. But then, the other flip side of it go to the other shifts, you know, the operations lieutenant is the CEO in the absence of a warden. So -- MR. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: -- the duty officer is just the bridge to the executive staff. MR. But they were actually supposed to be conducting those SHU rounds every day? MR. N'DIAYE: And then, again, I don’t know if they were or were not. I don’t know what they were, you know, what he was looking PRR RR Se ee a RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww RR ae ee PRR RRR Dw wr ed ool mel ro wo mre wh 414 Additionally, the IDO reports consistently document the condition of SHU as satisfactory, when observations have shown the SHU to be less than satisfactory." Do you have any comment on that? Do you agree with that assessment? MR. N'DIAYE: Oh, I don't know what day they went in there. Again, when these observations were done, I wasn’t the warden in the institution. MR. Okay. But prior to, when you were the warden, do you know about the institution duty officers not routinely visiting the SHU each day as required? MR. N'DIAYE: No. I didn't know about MR. QM: | You didn't know about MR. N'DIAYE: I didn't. I ensured sanitation. You know? I made sure they made, made sure the areas were clean. So. MR. Okay. And what was their ultimate responsibility when they would visit the SHU? MR. N'DIAYE: rounds in the unit. that. that. I guess same thing, to make Check on the inmates. at. WR. ME: | Now, why would, was HE 2 reoccurring -- MR. N'DIAYE: What? . a: -- Was he a reoccurring -? MR. N'DIAYE: No. The duty officers. Like, sometimes, you can get it twice a year mR. a Oh, okay. MR. N'DIAYE: So, I don’t -. MR. But is it, like, a quarterly -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. thing? MR. N'DIAYE: -- remember, he is also, he is the duty officer, but he is also his unit manager. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: MR. officer? MR. N'DIAYE: rotate. WR. QM: Every day? Well, remember -- -- submitted post type of But was he -- So -. -- the consistent duty No, no, no, no. They EFTA00064414

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 PRR RRR RR NDMP WNPRPOWOHDH SWwNP ae ee od WS Wr rs © Ww oc MR. N'DIAYE: No. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: every week. So -. WR. MM: So, it goes between other unit managers? MR. N'DIAYE: Other unit managers. Other department heads. So, it kind of goes, you Every week. Every week. Yeah. You have other ones, What is the grade -- : And do they -. -- level requirement? The department heads. It’s 12 or higher. . ae 12 or higher. . N'DIAYE: And some, like, maybe some Qur trust fund supervisors. What grade level are you? Huh? . What level are you? . N'DIAYE: SES. : Which means? It’s like a general. A staff. No. It’s what it’s 419 MR. N'DIAYE: usually N'DIAYE: | N'DIAYE: No. level. So, don’t -. He’s being modest. MR. N'DIAYE: No. Yeah. MR. : I always liked him anyway. MR. I did not know. I thought, I assumed you were 15 since your AWs are 14s, though. MR. N'DIAYE: No. But certain institutions, you are SESs. MR. Et And MCC was one of those institutions? MR. N'DIAYE: MCC is one. Your pre-trials are 15s. Your penitentiaries. Your big lows. Like, Fort Dix. Certain mediums. MR. And have you maintained? Are you still an SES now? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. MR. Okay. Since this time, have you ever been demoted or anything like that? MR. N'DIAYE: No. MR. : No. MR. : You know, man, I really -- MR. N'DIAYE: No. Just got -- WR. MM: -- I really got (Indiscernible *04:53:45) for this guy. RR ROW OHMS fwrNP —— wr RPRRR oN Du ee od Wwrerow mr oe RR ae ee RPRRR Ww Wr MRRP RRR Pow OAS Mmmenmrn Ww Wr equivalent to. MR. Mmn-hmm . MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. So, if you're looking at the military equivalent -- MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. Hey, man. -- it would be -- I can't be too -- -- the general. . : == cheap. MR. N'DIAYE: No. No. No. afford that. I got kids. MR. MMMM: Well, fuck. why didn't -- MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. MB: -- why didn't somebody tel] me that before? . N'DIAYE: I can't No, no, no. I got -- . (Indiscernible *04:52:52). . N'DIAYE: -- yeah. : Yeah. MR. : So, the highest level you can go to in the GS level is 15. And that is basically a full (Indiscernible *04:53:00) colonel in the military. SES is the general 420 MR. N'DIAYE: -- no. MR. MB: (indiscernible *04:53:45). You know how, I always give law enforcement guys a big, you know, a discount. But I didn't, he’s fuck - he’s a fucking (Indiscernible *04:53:52) -- MR. N'DIAYE: I'm (Indiscernible *04:53:52) a discount. MR. -- (Indiscernible *04:53:54) couldn’t afford him to pay. MR. N'DIAYE: Remember, I'm a federal employee. MR. MM: Federal boys. It doesn't matter if you're a general or not. MR. N'DIAYE: We don’t make any money. You're not making a lot Yeah. But -. Remember, I think the MR. N'DIAYE: MR. president makes, what? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. 250, and he’s the -- MR. N'DIAYE: 400. wR. SM: -- 400. EFTA00064415

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm MR. N'DIAYE: MR. Is it 400 now? MR. N'DIAYE: And the Vice President makes two something. MR. —. Yeah, yeah. No. That’s Yeah. MR. N'DIAYE: And never disciplined. I was moved, never given a reason why I was moved. I was just moved. MR. —. Okay. So, is the report also says that, “Psychology intake screening of Epstein contained errors in identifying details, including that Epstein was referred to as a black inmate, and by different inmate names.” WR. MMM: 0h, no. You're kidding me. They said he was black? Hell, that was a mistake. WR. QE: Do you know anything about that? MR. N'DIAYE: that. WR. WM: | Would that be a psychology issue? MR. N'DIAYE: When I don't know anything about That is a psychology, 423 MR. MR. : How about, like, Nine South lower, or something like that? Would they? Isn’t that, like, the mini Ten South? . N'DIAYE: That's the - yeah - that’s Or G tier. -- G tier. : That’s not -- Right. : -- what this is. So, that -- Did they have cameras? -- that did have recording * N'DIAYE: ~ NIDIAYE: * N'DIAYE: . N'DIAYE: cameras in -- MR. Just live cameras? MR. N'DIAYE: -- in South, yeah. Just - Nope. But then, we had no cameras on there that had live cameras in the South. : Okay. So, only -- Ten South. . : -- Ten South. . N'DIAYE: Only Ten South. 1 S0 -- : So-. * N'DIAYE: RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP RR eo PRR RRP RRR Oo OUD wr mre reo Mmmenmrn Ww Wr whoever was doing that review. MR. as. All right. “SHU has multiple cells equipped with video recording capability. Inmate Epstein was not housed in one of these cells. And there appears to be no set guidance on when to utilize these cells.” So, you already said you didn't believe, like, he should have been. MR. N'DIAYE: So -- WR. QM: | Is that correct? MR. N'DIAYE: -- let me correct that. None of the cells, none of the cells that we had in SHU had cameras in the cells that were being, working and being used. The only ones up in SHU that had cameras in the cell is Ten South. MR. QM: Okay. So, no -- MR. N'DIAYE: So, they -- MR. -- where else in the institution -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- nowhere else in there had cameras in the cell. MR. > Hmm, MR. N'DIAYE: Ten South, we have it in the cells where you can see -- 424 WR. QR: 9 -- this statement might actually associate Ten South as part of the SHU. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. Because a lot of people that come in, when they first come in, Ten South is part of there, actually part of Nine South. We call it -. It's part of an annex. So, when most people come in, and they have never been there, they don’t differentiate. MR. So, being that these are BOP individuals that did this report, what is your response to them saying that there appears to be set guidance on when to utilize these cells? If they are referring to Ten South. Was there guidance on that? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. Ten South, like I said, was specifically for the SAMs inmates. MR. —. So, do you -- MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. -- also believe that that is an incorrect statement, then? MR. N'DIAYE: If that’s what they are referring to, I do believe it is. MR. a. And you believe there was EFTA00064416

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 425 no other working cameras, outside of Ten South? MR. N'DIAYE: Ten South is -- MR. For a single cell. MR. N'DIAYE: -- is the one where we had our cameras. Okay. + Okay. MR. : Because we had also been informed that there were cells outside of Ten South that had cameras in them, specifically I think G tier. That's inaccurate? MR. N'DIAYE: G tier. There is no recording of inmates in those cells. MR. Just live? MR. N'DIAYE: And I don't even believe I know the only ones we had was Ten MR. : Okay. MR. : We also heard that Ten South wasn't supped to be utilized anymore. It was actually supposed to be phased out. MR. N'DIAYE: It was supposed to be what? MR. Phased out. MR. N'DIAYE: What do you mean phased out? MR. He was actually brought up, 427 the overall team's finding was? Do you agree that there was a shortage of staff? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah, there was. MR. Mm-hmm MR. N'DIAYE: -- I'll give you an example. We were short staffed. I was relieving officers on their posts, and on some weekends, I would come in and work a post. I mean -- MR. You, as the warden? MR. N'DIAYE: -- as the warden. I mean, we had -. We were short. I mean -. MR. Now, is there a -. there a way to rectify that issue? MR. N'DIAYE: We could. I mean, hiring. We had, I mean, 40 or 50 staff on OWCP (Phonetic Sp. *04:58:23). MR. a: And can you explain what that is? MR. N'DIAYE: Workers compensation. MR. Oh. And what was the percentage there, you said? MR. N'DIAYE: About 40 or 50 staff on it. MR. : 40 or 50 staff. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. On there -. MR. Did they seem to abuse live. South. I mean -- Was a CWO HUDMS fWwrNP RRR PR Swr re RRR RR Wwonmnu mnmry Le mrer WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP PRR RRP RRP RRR WeonyDwVfwrNro mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 426 brought out during the time, after 9/11, to house terrorists inmates. MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. MR. MMM: Have you ever heard anything about the fact that no one was supposed to be housed up there anymore (Indiscernible *04:57:12)? MR. N'DIAYE: No. It’s not -. It's not to house terrorists’ inmates. It’s to house inmates that have a SAMs on them. So, mostly, the most of the inmates that have SAMs on them are terrorist inmates or, you know, maybe an inmate housed for espionage. You know? And then -- MR. MM: Was it supposed to have been phased out due to PREA concerns? MR. N'DIAYE: I didn't -. anything about that. MR. : Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: _No. WR. MR: Okay. The next one is, the report also shows that, “A review was done regarding the overtime conducted by the C.0.s at the MCC, and the shortage of staff.” It doesn't say much about it. Do you know what 428 I don’t know that? MR. N'DIAYE: We all knew it was an abuse. I mean, we -. We had even had conversations with the IG about, you know, you're going to the same doctor. But I mean, I understand. So wR. WE: So -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- every -. WR. MMM: -- they were all using the same doctor? MR. N'DIAYE: The same doctor. I understand, every agency is short. MR. a. Mm-hmm MR. N'DIAYE: I mean, so, we just had that constant problem. MR. : That's, like -- MR. N'DIAYE: You know? wR. MM: -- they use some of these -. Some things, they use the same expert witnesses all the time. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. The hiring. We had a lot of department heads that we would use to cover. Some of my associate wardens, you know, would cover. So, it was just, you know, had to make do with what we had. But again, EFTA00064417

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re PRR RRR COND Fe WN 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR rPOwWOH4DMH fWwrNP RPRRR Ww Wh RR sO ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 429 WR. QM: «Now, was there, like, a plan in place to try to get you guys up to proper staffing levels? MR. N'DIAYE: I mean, we were working on hiring. You know, and getting people in. But it’s a process. You know? To get somebody hired, it_takes between six and eight months. MR. And were there a number of people in the pipeline? MR. N'DIAYE: Not really. I mean, we went out and did recruiting, because we were competing with other agencies. MR. Mm-hmm . MR. N'DIAYE: You know? Other agencies are hiring, you know, and we had incentives. You know? To get people on. So, it was just a matter of, you know, getting people on board. WR. — And do you think it could have been handled better by some, in some way, by the BOP, in order to rectify that issue? MR. N'DIAYE: There's certain things we don't control. Staffing. You know, the budget. We don't -. I don’t -. We don’t control that. I mean, we can turn around and say, I want this, but once the law is passed, 431 WR. GM: 11 right. So, we're literally less than half of a page left. MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. But this next one is just going to be, I'm going to have you just kind of read it -- MR. N'DIAYE: Okay. MR. -- along with me because it’s so long. “He was also an inmate who had risk factors for assault by other inmates, and did require careful selection for appropriate cellmates. Although these issues were noted, well documented, and communicated, a failure still occurred by allowing inmate Epstein to be placed in the cell alone. Although feasible for an inmate to effectuate suicide while housed with a cellmate, the odds of this occurring are significantly lowered when housed with another inmate.” The report continues. “It is apparent various staff at the institution made a point of ensuring inmate Epstein had an assigned cellmate. The captain personally instructed the lieutenants, individually. A mass email was distributed by psychology, and it is a CWO HUDMS fWwrNP PERE RPE RRR won wSewnrr MmMNrnNnNy Sewn oO PRR RRP RRR RR nm WOUDAEWNPOW SUM SWNP wa MmrenNrnrry SwWwrRer So nm w 430 and it said, this is what you are getting, you don’t -. We need to work with what we've got. MR. No, and I understand that, that as, like, as far as the BOP goes. But I mean, the MCC, especially, you know, covering Epstein in a lie *05:00:18), and having such high-profile inmates. Was there - do you think that there could have been anything done better, though, by the BOP, to make sure that your institution, specifically MCC, was better staffed? MR. N'DIAYE: You could - so, let's go TDY - we couldn't really, couldn't TDY to a point, but then, there are other institutions around the agency that were, you know, the staffing was an issue. So, they can't send somebody out to help, you know? And then, it just brought down the finding. I mean, and getting people to clear your background. Not everybody can clear a background to work. I mean, yeah, we can go out in the street and say, hey, we got a job for you, but can you pass the guidelines? MR. Mm-hnm MR. N'DIAYE: And a lot of time, do we know. 432 apparent some SHU officers were aware. Although many people acknowledge this is an important fact, ultimately, the final staff responsible for not - or did not ensure the requirement was met, including vital directives, such as a cellmate requirement, and a mass email does not ensure -.” (Indiscernible *05:02:20) -- MR. N'DIAYE: Mm-hmm. MR. -- including vital directives, such as a cellmate requirement, and a mass email does not ensure those who truly need that information do, in fact, receive it timely. In this case, inmate Epstein was actually placed with a cellmate when removed from psychological -- MR. N'DIAYE: — Mm-hmm. MR. -- observation. that moment, it is clear there was no additional written directive, or a fail safe system established, to ensure inmate Epstein -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. -- would have had a cellmate going forward." So, I guess, first and foremost, do you believe, probably the After EFTA00064418

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SCwWOnHtDUN SwWwrP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 433 primary reason why Epstein was able to take his own life was because he didn't have a cellmate? On top of the fact that they weren’t conducting rounds in SHU? And counts. MR. N'DIAYE: I can't speak to the mindset. Only I can speak to is, he killed himself. WR. GM: «But what I'm asking is, would it have certainly helped prevent his death by one) having an inmate; and two) having rounds and counts conducted? MR. N'DIAYE: Oh, if people did their job. MR. Right. MR. N'DIAYE: You know? And -. MR. : Like, obviously, if he killed himself, he did it. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. But the way that the government can better ensure that that doesn't happen is by ensuring that, when it is mandated that someone has a cellmate, they have a cellmate. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. And when they do their job, like you just said, they conduct rounds 435 to do. MR. know that were up? MR. N'DIAYE: No, I mean, the one you read to me, about the sign about doing the 30-minute checks. WR. MM: h, I think this is -- MR. N'DIAYE: So -. MR. -- specifically talking about the cellmate requirement. MR. N'DIAYE: No. I mean, (Indiscernible *05:05:02) cellmate requirement. It was put out by the captain. Directives were given. Staff was spoken to. You know, it’s kind of boiled down to people not doing their job. I mean, if I tell you, you have to do something, it’s given to you in writing, what more do we have to do? WR. QM: Well, that’s kind of my question, because the BOP is the one who wrote that finding. So, I'm curious myself -- MR. N'DIAYE: I mean, that’s -- MR. -- what you think -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- I mean -- MR. -- that could have been There was Signs up. Now, what signs do you a CWO HUDMS fWwrNP —— COUT fwr re mnmry Le mrer WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP PRR RRP RRP RRR WeonyDwVfwrNro mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 434 and counts, that -. Is that what you believe would have helped keep him alive today, if, you know, from the government perspective? MR. N'DIAYE: I mean, again, I'm going to just say, I can't say what would have kept him alive, but I will say, you know, if people made their rounds, did their job, followed instructions that they were given, then it might have -. Could have minimized what, you know -- wR. WEBB: The risk. MR. N'DIAYE: -- you know, what happened. The risk. But I can't talk to, you know, if he would have done it or not done it. If that would have stopped him. MR. a. Now, as far as this last sentence, what they wrote, “After that moment, it is clear there was no additional written directive, or fail safe system established to ensure inmate Epstein would have a cellmate going forward.” What do you think could have been done, and who should have done it? MR. N'DIAYE: So, directives and the information was conveyed to people verbally, documented on forms, on what you are supposed done. MR. N'DIAYE: opinion. MR. Right. MR. N'DIAYE: You know? That's a Monday morning quarterback that came in and make an opinion. I don’t know what their ulterior motive is -- MR. -- that’s somebody’s Can you think of any -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- for making it. MR. -- anything that wasn’t done? Can you think of anything, like, oh, if this could have helped, or maybe he should have done that? As far as the cellmate requirement. MR. N'DIAYE: I can't think of anything they should have done. MR. No. Okay. MR. : Can I ask? MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. WR. ME: = know it’s bound to - based on once everything comes up, these are questions that they’re going to have. So, I got to ask. I know you mentioned that you couldn’t have secondary selection. Like, another replacement for MMM, because inmates EFTA00064419

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRR We Wr RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 437 keep moving. But is it possible that a list should have been created? That, you know, should have told the SHU officers, hey, listen, if MBB ever gets removed, here is a list of maybe possible five inmates that you could choose from? MR. N'DIAYE: But I mean, under, you know, different inmates, we can do that, but he was a high-profile inmate that -- MR. + Mm-hmm. MR. N'DIAYE: -- I would have had to get that name and run it up to the department, to see if it was okay. it wasn’t just him. I was going to arbitrarily say, listen, I need you to, you know, we're going to put this guy -. I was, just like with the other ones, sent up to the department. So, again, it would have been based on who was there. MR. : And because -- MR. N'DIAYE: If that. MR. -- because of that extreme detail that had to go into selection, I think what is asking you is, should have there been a list of names that the higher ups signed off on, in case someone was removed, 439 wR. | Min-hnm, MR. N'DIAYE: -- again, I'm operating in hindsight. I mean, at the time -- MR. Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: -- you know, that’s what was done. . :_ Yeah, we know you do. MR. Yeah. And we are absolutely asking you to operate in hindsight. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. Saying, like -- MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. MR. -- Monday morning quarterbacking -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. -- yourself and your own institution, I get it. But, like, Monday morning quarterbacking this situation -- MR. N'DIAYE: _Mm-hmm. MR. -- what do you think they, you know, they are referring to this as the BOP, and we are not the experts. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. We're coming in. But BOP is saying this. I'm just saying, what do they Right. a CWO HUDMS fWwrNP RRR PR Swr re RRR RR Wwonmnu mnmry Le mrer WW = Ww Wey DHfwrP PRR RRP RRP RRR WeonyDwVfwrNro mre reo mr wh 24 25 438 they went to court, they didn't come back, they were transferred, things like this. MR. Like, that’s what they list as a fail safe. Like -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. I mean -- MR. -- as a precautionary measure. MR. N'DIAYE: -- it could have been, but then it would have still been based on who was there that_day, at the time. MR. a. And that's why I think he’s saying, like, a list of five people versus one or two. So, if this person is not -- MR. N'DIAYE: I don’t -- MR. -- there, what about this one? That one is not there, either. But maybe this guy. You know, that type of thing. Or did you -- MR. N'DIAYE: MR. I just -- : -+ just stand by a hunch? WR. N'DIAYE: -- yeah. I just, I just feel, like, you know -- MR. : Don’t know. MR. N'DIAYE: -- it was, I can't, no. I mean -- mean by this? MR. N'DIAYE: Right. But -- MR. And what are some things that could have been done? MR. N'DIAYE: -- but those are individuals that are coming in, looking at a situation, that weren't deeply involved in it. MR. a. Mm-hmm MR. N'DIAYE: You know, they weren't the ones that were told, hey, okay, I'm talking to my boss, and it’s going all the way up to the department. That wasn’t -. That wasn’t privy to them. MR. MR. N'DIAYE: basis. WR. J: © But unfortunately, everyone is who going to eventually look at this case -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. ME: © -- is going to be doing the same exact thing as they are. MR. N'DIAYE: No. But what I'm saying is, if we're looking at assessing the situation on what happened in real time, that’s what I'm talking about. So, in real time, now, if they > Mm-hmm. That was a need to know EFTA00064420

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RR ROW OHM SWwrNP RPRRRRR SOD Se Wwh 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SCwWOnHtDUN SwWwrP RPRRPR RRR SOW WNP ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 441 had known that, hey, you know what? These names had to go up and be, you know, vetted at the same time, maybe it would have been a different thought process. MR. PE And was it possible - and maybe you discussed this - was it possible that, hey, listen, the SHU officers could have replaced -? Did they have the ability to replace , if they wanted to, or did they have to come up the chain of command, for the chain of command to tell them who the new inmate -? MR. N'DIAYE: They were instructed, hey, let us know when - where he’s to have a cellmate at all time - and to notify, let someone know. Because again, due to the individual that he was, you just don’t want to throw anybody. MR. : Okay. But doesn't that kind of hinder them from taking action? Let’s say, at that point on that day, you are not in the institution, Captain was there, I understand. MR. N'DIAYE: there. There was an acting warden You had the executive staff there. 443 needs a cellmate. And then, I would be, like, okay, let’s see what we have, so we can send it up. WR. WM: So, basically, you were always available. Someone was always available, that if the proper notification was being made, up the chain of command -- MR. N'DIAYE: Right. WR. MJ: -- a newer inmate could have been assigned. MR. N'DIAYE: That's why I carried it. That's why I had (Indiscernible *05:10:23). So, to, I get calls all hours of the night, even if I'm off, I'm not off. If there is an issue, an emergency, I'm called. Yeah. MR. : Okay. And if someone does ask, should the SHU officers have been given the ability? Your answer to that would have been, you have that phone with you, someone should have made that notification. So -- . N'DIAYE: Right. -- someone in the higher -- And they -- -- of command. -- and they would contact * N'DIAYE: ~ N'DIAYE: a CWO HUDMS fWwrNP —— COUT fwr re mre nd MmmrenNrn Ww WPM Wey DHfwrP PRR RRP RRP RRR WeonyDwVfwrNro mre reo MmmenNn Ww Wr 442 Just because the warden is not there doesn't mean the institution doesn't run. That’s why you have, you know, people acting on your behalf. You know? That could make -- MR. So, maybe -- MR. N'DIAYE: -- those decisions. MR. -- maybe, what J, you are trying to ask is, would somebody, since it sounds like you would have to go over your head to even make that decision, has to go to the regional director level, would the associate warden have the ability to go to the regional director, or would have they known to go to the regional director? MR. N'DIAYE: So, let’s say that did happen, right? They would have -- MR. a: Well, it did happen. MR. N'DIAYE: -- no, I'm saying, as far as finding out that, hey, he needed a cellmate. So, even though I'm off that day, I'm still working. MR. Mm-hmm . MR. N'DIAYE: Because I got the government phone. And they’re going to call me and tell me, hey, this is what we got going on. He me. wR. MB: Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: So, it was not, like, I'm off on paper. Because I am using my leave. But I'm still on duty because you can call me on my phone. MR. : Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: Yeah. WR. GE: «My last two questions. Based on your conversation, and after this -- : Thank God. : -+ based on your MR. MR. conversations, and this after-action report that we just reviewed those topics, what are the failures of the BOP that allowed Epstein to die? MR. N'DIAYE: I'm not -. I mean, that’s - I think -. I can't -. That's -. You know, like, I - again - I'm speculating, and I'm giving personal opinions. I'm not -- MR. —_— Again, and I'm not asking you to say why he killed himself. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. MR. Or if he could have. What I'm saying is, what are the failures of EFTA00064421

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRRR we wre RR SD ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc 445 the BOP? wR. WBBM: He killed himself because he ain't stupid. He said to himself, holy shit, I'm going to spend the rest of my life in prison. WR. MM: Yeah, yeah, and I'm not - : -- and I'm not, absolute! not asking -- MR. : -- as far as what is his mental state, and could have he had the ability MR. N'DIAYE: But I can't -- WR. MM: -- but are the failures, as you see them, after we reviewed all this, that you believe -. What did the BOP do wrong, in this instance? Unless you don’t think that they did anything wrong. MR. N'DIAYE: No. I'm not saying they did anything wrong. But again, these are things that you are going to find. I mean, right now, I can look at it and say, we’re looking at people not making rounds and all that. But right there. wR. GE: Okay. MR. N'DIAYE: You know, we can talk about all the other stuff, but the basic is, you did not go and make those rounds. WR. GM: «And would you also, though, add to that the fact that they didn't replace SM -- MR. N'DIAYE: Oh. wR. QM: -- like they wer supposed to? MR. N'DIAYE: Yes. WR. MM: Okay. What actions could the BOP have taken to possibly prevent Epstein’s death? It doesn't sound like -- Right. -- still, you were nervous. : Totally. That's all. . HB: It just, it sounds like they quote, the answer would be, conduct your rounds, conduct your counts. Get a -- MR. N'DIAYE: Do your job. * N'DIAYE: I mean, you could RR ROW OHM fwrKP —— wr RPRRR oN Du MmNmenNrre rmrROow mre re WW = Ww RR ae ee PRR RRR Dw wr ed ool mel ro wo Mmmenmrn Ww Wr 446 there’s still an investigation going on. So, I don’t want_to sit here and speculate -- WR. ME: No, but we are the ones - MR. N'DIAYE: -- and say -- WR. MM: | -- doing the investigation, and -- MR. N'DIAYE: _-- right. WR. QM: -- you are the leader of the organization that, you know, of the place. That's why this is a very relevant question for you to answer because -- MR. N'DIAYE: —Mm-hmn. WR. MM: -- you know, this was the facility that you oversaw. MR. N'DIAYE: Right. So -- WR. MM: «So, we're just -. All I'm simply asking is, what do you think the problems are, as you see them? After you just heard everything we just talked about for, it seems like the last five hours. MR. N'DIAYE: No. I mean, if we would talk - I mean, you’re not counting. You didn't make your rounds in that unit, to check on an inmate. I mean, that is, that is the basics 448 “. a: Get MR. BB: 99 times out of a 100, it wouldn't have happened. MR. : Right. So -- You know, it’s - -- but in this case, it does seem, like, a lot of this was a result of - like you keep on saying - people not doing their jobs. wR. WE: Jobs. MR. N'DIAYE: But I mean -- MR. MM: Yeah. MR. N'DIAYE: -- but in all fairness, we've had, since Epstein died, and before, we've had almost 60 suicides. So, it's the same reoccurring theme. (eM: Riche. MR. N'DIAYE: You know, people not making their rounds and doing what they're supposed to do. WR. ME: And is that the same thing that’s happening with them, they're not doing their rounds or counts? MR. N'DIAYE: I mean, and nine times out -- do your job. EFTA00064422

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RR rPFCowW OND SwhN re RPRRR Ww = Wh RR SD 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RR SwWOHNDN FWwrNP RPRRPR RRR SD SwWwNPe ee ee ed eS WwrN Pr CO wc nm wm 449 of ten, every time you look into something, it is a matter of them doing checks, you know, not counting, you know? So, it’s the normal things. WR. GM: «Are these other instances, where we find out that they didn't have cellmates? MR. N'DIAYE: Single cell. You know, I mean, you have access to the data. I mean, you look at it, and you look at the numbers of single cell inmates. But there is instances where, you know, sometimes you do have to put somebody in a cell single. WR. MR: Sure. MR. N'DIAYE: But, you know, there is other suicides, and they don’t stop. You know? Some of it is, you know, staff had no control over it, and some staff had control over it. WR. QM: And I do apologize. I said that was the last question, but I guess I should ask. In Monday morning quarterbacking yourself, is there anything that you should have done differently? MR. N'DIAYE: _ Hmm. WR. WM: As the MCC warden? we missed asking about? WR. WBBM: Don’t ask him that. MR. N'DIAYE: Not that I can think of. WR. WM: You have a right to remain silent. (Indiscernible *05:15:06). Guys, listen, you know? MR. : Yeah. No. We got you. MR. : Like, I was impressed that you did that. He couldn't go through this. I would have been to the bathroom, like, I got to do this, I got to do this. I mean, I got to make a phone call. I want to take a nap. He just sat there and answered all the questions. I mean, he's not -- Yeah. -- even sweating under his . I: And thank you very much - . N'DIAYE: Yeah. -- for your cooperation - . N'DIAYE: No. I appreciate -- Especially -- . N'DIAYE: -- you guys. RR ROW OHM fwWwrNP PRR RRR SD wR myer e re Oo wo Mmmenmnr WwW Wh 450 MR. N'DIAYE: As far as what? This situation? WR. QM: «Yeah. Just anything that you feel, like, oh, you know, like, I should have done this better, or I could have done this better. That type of thing. MR. N'DIAYE: I can't. MR. MMM: «Just for the record, let me just -- MR. N'DIAYE: for that. VR. WY: | -- okay. you have? I can't think of anything Anything else : No. That's it? Anything that -- Jesus Christ. : == you wanted to add to anything, Warden, anything that -- I didn't know if you said -- -- we missed, or you want . HE: -- generally. . N'DIAYE: No. No. That's it. Is there anything you think 452 -- the recording is showing that this is five hours and 15 minutes. So, this was an epic, epic interview. It is currently 7:18 p.m. on Wednesday, October 27th, 2021. This is Senior Special Agent , and I am turning off the recorder. EFTA00064423

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453 CERTIFICATE I hereby certify that the foregoing pages represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Interview of LAMINE N'DIAYE CE, Transcriber EFTA00064424