DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INS JULY 15, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES EFTA00062510

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APPEARANC OR GENERAL WITN EFTA00062511

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S) Nh Nh No N WwW wo 7) WwW wo WwW This is Special Agent | 11:15, I’m turning Today is July 15, U.S. Department of Justice, Office of General, New York Field Office The Federal interview is with the conducted as part of an credentials. Bureau of Prisons official U.S. is being Department of Justice, Office General investigation. Today The time is 11:16 a.m. The interview is being Department of Justice Office of New York Field Office. General nior Special Agent im un i) b oO uv identify your Spell your last name New York. Richman Hill Wo EFTA00062512

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Ne] WwW R-I-C-H-M-A-N. My name is 6 oksr -O S-M-A-N, Legal Intern for cial Agent 0 ial Agent No ct p 0] o o fu 4K oO 3 ie] K ] jen D 5 rt fu fu bh 0) This interview will be WwW 6 death of inmate Jeffrey Epstein and the wo 22 a : I’m going to review DOJ OIG form that’s a Warnings and EFTA00062513

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Basis. The form states, “You are being asked to provide information as part of an investigation being conducted by the Office of Inspector General. This investigation is being conducted pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended. The investigation pertains to job performance failure and security failure. This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not have to answer questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you choose not to answer any questions. Any statement you furnish may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceedings or agency disciplinary proceedings or both.” The waiver states, “I understand the warnings and assurances stated above and I am willing to make a statement and answer questions. No promises or threats have been made to me or no pressure or coercion of a” any kind has been used against me. Do you understand that? You can read it if you have to and if you understand, please sign under where it says, “Employee signature.” ee : And if you wanted to ask any questions about it, this would be the time EFTA00062514

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ow oO wo wo n to do that. MS. RICHMAN: Again, there is no concept here that fF is a target or subject of the investigation, this is simply into the investigation of Mr. Epstein’s demise. a : witness. io s of right now, he’s just a MS. RICHMAN: Yes. ae : For the - he’s not a subject for the investigation. MS. RICHMAN: I’m like -. ee : So everyone that we interview get this. This is just to be able to tell them what the investigation is focusing on. We don’t have any reason to believe, although, we don’t know how he’s going to answer our questions. Going into this, you are absolutely correct. We don’t have any reason to suspect that your client did anything wrong. MS. RICHMAN: Thank you. a : This is Special Agent a. I’m going to sign this under the signature of fo the Office of the Inspector General, Special Agent. ee : And as mentioned, prior EFTA00062515

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Ne] WwW co to, we just want to make sure that we stay focus we do interview, I would like to place you under and please raise your right hand? Do you swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth during this interview? K i) wo H on oO tg fa o wv is] O b 0) rt =] oO ay 0 bh r he 12) is I a : I want to clarify, again, EFTA00062516

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number? phone number? cation? there subject matt oO lef EFTA00062517

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wo n 0) Q w ct oO the Hh O Ki w ine] OP training? w i) 3 3 ‘a whole time? Do you during Bh From you been New what Yo rk ime? you 11 until witt 1 tl 1e What I EFTA00062518

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I ts AQ ce} 5 b- oO KK rt fe} were with tt 0) ea i] i) if) rn) ist BE 0 o he 3 i) 5 rt b- oO 5 i) jon right? Ww oO fh th bh. Q oO K J on on August 9th is) And what shift did and 10th? No ts @ 3 i 5 Q 3 midnight. fea] uw s ) = worked at the Wow. 9 So I hay assignment 20 August 9th and 10th -- 22 -- for the MCC New York. You who that is, EFTA00062519

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11 Ne] WwW 8 been your - would you a 9 Activities Lieutenant or just -. 0 Ee : Yes. Activities on the 10th 2 e to the didn’t remember on ® own. : No, I can’t - I mean, ors, but I didn’t - I worked for me that I’m just going to ve this in front of you if you n mo i) As part of - when we show you ting attes EFTA00062520

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aocuments, we 2 it, just fe) 3 document we showed you. 5 Ee : So, just top right of the 1’t mind just co the in, any inmate inmate that has to EFTA00062521

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wo Ne] WwW fee} wo HS: os you recall what time started your shift on August 9th? WS: «tf i worked 4:00 to 12:00, I should be, you know, there obviously a little befor a : Are you familiar with Jeffrey ae: How do you know him? bringing him to attorney conf rence and o viously seeing him in the building, you know, movement and all that. HS: os you know if Inmate Jeffrey that wa b Wo EFTA00062522

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N N Nh Nh wo wo ho WwW uw first cell mate was inmate Tartaglione and -- Ee : -- yeah, that was his first cell mate. a : Do you recall why Epstein was assigned a cell mate? a cell mate. That’s, you know, pecial Housing, in protective custody, but he wasn’t under protec 7e custody, he was j cial Housing, so. . 5 if vou’ i S ial a : So if you’re in Special Housing, you have to have a cell mate? s limited space so, you know, unless you’re there, like I said, in protective custody where you can’t have a cell mate, different. But if there’s room to put - only a certain amount of room, so you’ve got to bunkie up, you know, to accommodate. that Ep were aware of? Ee : No, not that I’m aware of. 14 EFTA00062523

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uw fo) 10 11 12 13 14 17 18 19 a : Were you aware that Epstein had attempted to commit suicide on July 23rd? a : Were you one of the responding officers? ee : Yes, I was. ee : Can you explain what transpired? ae: So, I was working Special Housing Unit on overtime and me and the officer had heard some sort of commotion and we were about to do our round down that tier, I believe it was M tier and inmate Tartaglione was his bunkie and he was at the door asking for help. We got there. When I looked, because Tartaglione is a little bit big and the window is small, I asked him to move to the side. I saw Epstein with something tied around his neck, but he was sitting on the floor. I told him, you know, “Call for medical assistance,” I told my partner. We cuffed up Tartaglione, took him out. I took it off from Epstein’s neck and we started doing CPR, but he was breathing. You know, he was already breathing and everything. EFTA00062524

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ow oO ~—] wo 10 12 13 14 a : Did Epstein make any statements to you -- a: Nothing. a : -- and state what happened? ee: No, he was still not talking when we got him out of the cell and put him on the stretcher and when we took him out, he spoke with Operations Lieutenant and someone because I couldn’t leave Special Housing, I had to stay there so I don’t know what he said. He didn’t say nothing to me personally. a : Did Tartaglione make any statements of what transpired? HN: 'c¢ «was just shooken up. He was like, you know, that he was sleeping, because Tartaglione slept on the floor, something with his back he said. So he was sleeping on the floor and he said he just felt someone dump on him and he woke up, you know, frightened and then, you know, that’s it, so he was shooken up, like he was still half asleep, you know. ee : And when you walked in the cell, just to clarify, when you walked in the cell, you saw Epstein hanging? EFTA00062525

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Ne] WwW 4 wo his WN: 0c) where was - when you walked - what part of the cell was he in? much dead center. The way the beds are set up, which I’m grab their and go down. But it wasn’t tied hard enough so I guess he landed on his it was hooked on the bed. Do you have EFTA00062526

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Ww co Ww did any part of a : Truthfully. ee: And when you said, when tially like a cannonball Well, I’m assuming how he , that’s what how sitting position and it we you de EFTA00062527

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10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 a : His back was against the ladder, so, you know, he wasn’t laying flat. But his legs were - one of his legs was definitely straight out. I can’t remember how the - I think the other leg might have been curved a little bit. But that’s about it. He was on his butt though and his back against the ladder with, you know. ee : Did you hear anything with regard to Tartaglione potentially attempting to harm Epstein? ae : In the days prior, that was the rumor that was circulating that allegedly Epstein must have told someone, Operations or whatnot, but no one has directly told me. I just remember hearing it in the building. But what I do know is when he came off suicide watch, Epstein, he did ask to go back with Tartaglione. HS: «Sos when you say, “The days prior,” do you mean the days after? a : I mean the days after, you know, the days after he attempted suicide. He went on suicide watch then his lawyers reached out and said, you know, it was an attempted 19 EFTA00062528

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don’t know what they said, but I 2 was there when they took him off suicide watch 3 and they said, you know, “It wasn’t a suicide, 4 so take him off,” but, you know, “Put him back a 5 in Special Housing,” wha yer the ca i) e may be 6 and he asked to go back with Tartaglione and 7 the Lieutenant was like, “No, he can’t do 8 that.” So I’m assuming he told the Lieutenant it was an 11 assumption that he wasn’t allowed because its) ct ie w rt c f i} r it) rt o oO 103) 3 Ee: That’s what I’m assuming, 16 Ee : That’s why they -. 7 | ti‘ és So if - so Epstein - you 8 believe that Epstein did make a claim that 9 Tartaglione attempted to harm him and that’s 20 why he wasn’t allowed to be placed with him? 21 ee : Yeah, I would have to assume 22 that because there would be no other reason why 23 not to put them back together. 25 Ee : Yeah. EFTA00062529

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No wo Ne] WwW wo w Cc rt tt ie] n ct ) B t=] a) Le] i) Qa bP th ; Qa wy bh bh he I was bringing him but he was in =>d me why he t with me and he o couldn’t be paired up with him again and I said, “I don’t know. ons Lieutenant.” And he was don’t understand, you know, 7 + hat’s above my pay something though. They’re not going to just ng you have rything was cool. I said, 21 EFTA00062530

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wo wo you to believe that Tartaglione in fact tried to harm Epstein? a: I don’t think so. Reason don’t think , I mean, I don’t put nobody because, you know, I don’t know them like that, but he was trying to stay out of a lot of trouble because of what he was facing with his own case. I don’t know if I just know he w wu 107) 1 re w concentrated on beating that case. And my personal experience, someone trying to beat a case is not going to try to kill someone else while you’re trying to beat a murder charge. t just doesn’t add up to me. resulted in Tartaglione’s case? EFTA00062531

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No wo wo allegedly murdered someone, rt oS wu rt 7 n w if = a wu ct o ci) was in - do you feel like he was the right on to i per igned to Epstein? ae : I mean, truthfully, he’ other bunkies and there’s never been an issue, had 7) so I don’t think it was like a bad choice, you know. Tartaglione bunkie? Ee: No, that I don’t know. ee : No? Do you know if it went above the heads of the staff in the SHU? Ee : I wouldn’t doubt it. Because a lot of things that transpired with fu Epstein was above our heads. Ee : ‘ know, the judge would call or whoever would call and then it would come from the Captain who told the Lieutenant, the Lieutenant would give the order. Soa lot , 2) Fh n ct c Fh Hh my a7] not the officers. Usually it’s up ct Dp o 2) Fh Mh bp a o 8 it] in SHU. You, you know, “You do EFTA00062532

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 24 this, you do that.” A lot of stuff that happened with him came from outside orders. ee : Yeah. ee : And you mentioned something about how Epstein was no longer suicidal and that’s why they placed him back in the housing unit. Do you know why they made that determination that he was no longer suicidal? ee: From what I heard, because obviously medical staff clears them, so I don’t, you know, I have no part in clearing anybody. But from what I heard, the reason why he came off is his lawyers told something to the judge and the judge called the building saying, “He shouldn’t be on suicide watch, get him off.” Because when you’re on suicide watch you don’t get attorney visits. So, and he used to get attorney visits every day, like she said and he would have that room like from when attorney opens until when attorney conference closes. So when he went on suicide watch you don’t get it no more. So I don’t know what transpired, but the lawyers spoke to the judge EFTA00062533

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wi “Take him 1 and the judge called Mv N off,” you know, “He’s to come off suicide WwW wat 4 HI: Where did 5 information from? 6 ae : From the Ops Lieutenant. 7 Ee : Which Ops Lieutenant? 8 Ee : At that time, we’d done so many hours and work wo with 0 was doing close to 72 hours a you know, so -- 2 Fp : -- it could have been any - WwW 4 I don’t remember e 5 it, but I remember them saying € suicide watch because o , you know, we got a a 7 phone call saying he had to come off suicide 8 watc Who would h wo someone at the M That would come from his 24 Who do you EFTA00062534

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Ww Ww and then And who you know. prior y ou a : Even the tier would be EFTA00062535

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Ww co Ww down, it came back he ah, it was to the (Indiscernible would be M tier, first on suic cell on the te, after he from suicide watch, do you know where was assigned? know All right. that informatio And how EFTA00062536

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10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 a : Well, one, I know because I’ll transport, you know, and I’m on Special Housing quite a bit just bringing inmates back from attorney conference or helping out, whatever the case may be. But I know the first cell because I’m the one that responded when he, you know, tried to attempt suicide the first time, so I remember that. And the second one I know because, you know, I worked that unit on overtime. Not the night he did it, but so I know the cell he was in. ee : Okay. And you know the cell because you were working in the unit you said? ae: Yes, I had worked in that unit after he was on suicide watch. | ti‘ aié‘ésll who actually brings Epstein - who used to bring Epstein from the SHU down to attorney visiting? Would that be Internal or who would do that? ee : Well, what would happen is, unless they’re severely busy, but Internal, we just meet them at the door. So whatever officers are there, take him out of the thing, you know, they get a phone call and then they 28 EFTA00062537

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N WwW wo 7) WwW wo Nh WwW 24 call us on the radio, “Internal, we got one ready for attorney conference, you want to come ” upstairs. at the door, they hand them off or they come with us, wh you know, but -. ally getting him from the cell or whatnot or maybe the inmate is acting irate and they just want extra staff, but normally, no. it’s whoever is posted there brine them and brings we’re just the middle man, you know. K o 3 oO 3 oO o 5 ever from his Hh cell or place him back in the cell when he was staying in a : Truthfully, no. I can’t -. ive] EFTA00062538

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fine. I’m just tryi this s questioning i determine that you knew ng - the only reason for to just positively that’s where he was from working -. 9 ae: -- he was 0 sjned, but just, yeah. 11 | tti‘iai‘éwl And you know it fro 2 working in the unit. 3 Ee: Yes, because I did a lot of 4 overtime over night 5 there and know doing rounds an wo who was wu Ve from doing co or whatnot, Great. And then you mentioned, before not the 21 Who else to as 23 : I don’t remember his 24 name and vasn’t there long. So I don’t - I ven remember , but I EFTA00062539

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had another bunkie when he came 2 that guy, if I’m not mistaken, I 3 was d out morning killed himself. was there onl two cell mates stein? so suicide attempt Nh | | WwW wo other inmate that I can’t remember ex he was, but he had a bunkie ba ioe) a EFTA00062540

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Wo No 1 a : Now, was there a different eason why he was placed with the inmate other N Kh "0 = oy) 3) 3 than the fact that there was less space’ 4 there a specific reason? 5 ee: I mean, truthfully, I don’t 6 know. But it could be either or. That space 7 or because he was on suicide watch, you have to 8 have a bunkie, you know, but that’s - I don’t 9 know tat the reason was, I just know he had a 10 bunkie. a : Do you recall after he came 2 back from suicide watch, was there any specific 3 instructions that came down from the Captain or 4 the Lieutenants regarding Epstein? : No, not that I know of. 16 a : Are you familiar with the 7 court list? ow wo 20 Ee : So, in the morning or 21 sometimes the night before, it depends on when 22 they get it from the Marshals. The Marshals 23 send us a court list, it’s printed out in R&D 24 and we hand it out to each unit and that’s how ine] uw they know ho got court in the morning or who EFTA00062541

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uw oO 10 11 12 13 14 17 18 19 got court in the afternoon. Sometimes, like I said, they get it the night before, but that’s rarely. They most of the time get it like in the morning sometime, you know, like overnight maybe 4:00 in the morning you get it or 5:00 in the morning or whatever. a : So it rarely comes in the night before? ae: Rarely. It has happened, but rarely because there’s so many changes. You know how the courts are and everything so the Marshals would rarely give us - but if it’s a slow day and maybe it’s only a few inmates, they get a list the night before, you know. ae : And what’s exactly listed on that list? ee: It says, whoever is getting packed out like going to another institution or air lift or whatever the case may be. Whoever is going to court period. Basically just that type of stuff, there’s nothing else on there, no. ee : So you mentioned, “Packed out,” what’s packed out? ee: Packed out is if they’re - 33 EFTA00062542

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wo wo 20 N c N nN N a Nh Nh uw it may be you’re leaving in the next week to anotl! r send him can be inventoried and what atever we'll te “” out, so jail, so they’re put on the list down with the case unit. So w 11 the inm that’s ho to pack his stuff when belongings, yeah. sure on, but it’s to all his property so that it er he w may be and then he e call it w he kno packed o and go to R&D. Have you ever With all I Air lift, basicall mean? ants comes hipped or whatever he’s going to donate or ut because belongings. 7 pack out, I’m not en the , “You're being packed that the same thing as you know. on heard the term EFTA00062543

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ies) uw 1 will come and pick someone up, and I’m assume - 2 and I don’t know if it’s - where they’re going 3 but the coming - they’re ing somewhere, wo 0 know, depending on where the, 11 a : Who creates this court list? 2 Did you sa\ 3 Ee: From my understanding, it 4 comes from the Marshals. 5 a : From Marshals to Ré& 7 a : And what does R&D do? They pass on the list or they create a document ao us. wo o Fh Ee : I’m not sure, to be 1 because I don’t work in R 2 N ho I’m in and out of it, but N a henever we go to pick it up, it’s just in R&D 24 ready already. So, I don’t know, you know. I w it comes from the Marshals because EFTA00062544

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Ww i=) 1 heard them say several times, like, “We’re N waiting on the Marshals to send the court list “ But as far 3 so we know who is going tomorrow. 4 as if they alter it or do their own thing, that I don’t know. ow And as Internal, does R&D oO 7 provide a copy to you? And what do you do with the - wo 10. Ee : On the elevator, we have 2 like a little box where our own paperwork or, 3 you know, we have a metal wand to wand people 4 down or whatnot. It’s not big. So it would be 5 put there in our folder and when the next shift 16 comes on, they check the folder and they got 17 the court list also, you know, to -. How many copies of that court o wo list do you think is made? ine) oO I mean, off the top of my 21 head, you figure each unit gets one, the 22 Lieutenant’s office gets one, attorney 23 conference gets one. I don’t -. 24 a : Just pretty much passed out ine] uw ct o wu b EFTA00062545

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ive) ~] 1 Ee : Yeah, yeah. Every area of 2 the building gets that and the call out list 3 and the SEP Sp. *00:25:59) roster and 4 all that. 5 a : You said normally - normally, 6 it should come the night before but sometimes it comes 4:00 in the morning. 8 Ee : No, no, no. Once in a blue it comes the night before, but normally it wo 0 comes like 3:00, between 3:00 and 5:00 in the morning, you know, it will come. 2 a : And a copy is given to every 3 unit. 16 a folder or computer somewhere? 7 WN: know R&D has it in the wo o ral wu bet 20 HS: -— what happens is, once 21 y’re keyed in, obviously 22 it’s in the computer, but you don’t key it in 23 the building otherwise it 24 causes confusion. If I just look at the list 25 and key these people out, but then one don’t go EFTA00062546

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ive) oo 1 to court or one gets canceled, now our count is inmates out of the ND ) rh Hh ion @ Q uy c 107] @ H ue] Cc rt Ht ie) Cc Kh WwW 6 computer. 7 a : Do you know if that document 8 is saved anywhere? 9 (Indiscernible *00:26 0 That court lis Like, that court list that gets passed WwW 4 a : Hard copy, yeah. : -- one on the computer? fee} I would assume, you know, 9 se, could back track and 20 22 24 EFTA00062547

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wo Ne] WwW fee} wo about | tti‘ésSS And when being in the computer, do you know if the actual court list is in the computer or they key the information off of the court list into the computer? Ee : So, I know if we go to the control center all count and assignments, that’s called C&A, that’s all keyed in. But R&D, I believe they have it in the computer. info on that than we do. So I would assume have something more than us, whether it’s the exact list int computer or just something close to it, but I don’t kn know, I couldn’t answer that exactly because, like I said, I don’t work there and -- ive) ve] EFTA00062548

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1 mobile, I’m not, y 2 ee : Who would be a person to that Ww in R&D? a : No, it’s in the Control co 3 ee : So someone in the Control 4 Center is actually assigned Counts and y. Good to know. Are that document, 9 was 20 9th, 21 Control #2 is u C&A So day shift was , | (Phonetic Sp. *00:28:30) and night Thank you. EFTA00062549

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Nh Nh No N WwW wo WwW wo WwW ee : Okay. When you said that the Marshals don’t send it usually until like oO 3:00 to potentially 5:00 a.m. Are you sure don’t send it or is that when it’s passed Ee : Truthfully, there’s no - I don’t know. You know what I’m saying? ee : So what makes you believe that the Marshals don’t ac re, you know, a lawyer - know, first morning, what judge called out, what - so I’m assuming they would wait as c possible to the time, you know, to get it out, I would EFTA00062550

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2 I could be -. 3 is an 5 Ee : I could be wrong. It’s an I could - no know for 0 be right. in the morning. You know, there’s I don’t know. fee} you when I’m -ting it and or EFTA00062551

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1 usr ch? + watcn;: morning Ww 3 wu t w t day watch? 3 Day watch, no, I wouldn’t be 8 What about night watch? 9 e’s no overnight 2 watch, evening watch is what I’m saying. So 3 like the - you got day watch and you g It might not be listed on ct Pp @ kK 0) 7 a : I was just about to sa fer) Oo rs) lef o 0 w be I o | | b t n 3 0 t O 5 7 be honest, you EFTA00062552

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N WwW wo 7) WwW wo Internal, I know list as court for that Do : Okay, yeah. you worked on August 9th came in the afterno you da in at 4 count and 7) off, we’ll look we'll use the court omputer, folder. xXnOW, You uni oO fu K un i Q o’ clock, we refer back to unit on a clipboard or It’s still held because when the 4 sometimes. To see who was there, who’s - Yeah, you know, if the count to see who they sent out and t sometimes before we go usually it’s saved on supposed to retain of i from just working EFTA00062553

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uw 1 are accounted for back in the building, it’s 2 useless, it’s gone because it’s already in the 3 computer, you can backtrack and look that he 4 left for court or he left for whatever, so 5 there’s no need for the paper, you know, after 6 they’re back. Once the building is fully 7 stocked again, we really - it’s irrelevant to 8 have that paper because in the computer, we 9 know ere they went when they came back. 0 a : All right. Are you familiar with something called the daily log? ow K fi) wo wo oO ral wu a) 21 when it’s keyed in the computer. 23 Ee : You know. And once it’s 24 keyed into SENTRY, it’s a ton of different 25 paperwork we get from SENTRY. EFTA00062554

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 46 a : What kind of paperwork? a : The SEP rosters like I said or the movement in the building. Like, literally everything is in SENTRY, so what ends up happening is the Lieutenant’s log, the officer’s log, everything is - you could go back in SENTRY and look and be like, “Oh, well, inmate Daniels, the court list said he had court but he never went to court because he got injured playing basketball and they took him out on a medical trip.” So now, I go to SENTRY and it will say that you weren’t in court, but you were out on a, you know, hospital, you were out at a hospital that’s why you’re off the count. So it’s not that you never came back from court, the court list said that you had court so that’s why the computer and the log is necessary because now I look at the log and I’m like, it’s 2:00 in the morning, Daniels isn’t back from court, that makes no sense. No, you never went to court, you’re in the hospital because you broke your finger playing basketball. You know what I’m saying? ME: ok:y. ee : The PP-38 you’re talking EFTA00062555

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N N Nh Nh wo wo ho WwW uw about? : Yeah, basically. ae: So SENTRY is the central K @ if) HE: -- that McC uses? : SENTRY is the main, yeah, a : So we know there’s a Lieutenant’s log and is a separate you said for the officers ae : What do you mean? Like it’s, again, when I first started, it was a big book, so that know, but that was a long time ago would wri everything in the book. Now they have TRUACCESS, you log in with your PIV card, you log in and it’s a whole layout of, you you could do an inmate off the unit, you can move an inmate off the unit, move him on, oO you can move the cells, everything. So, if you log into TRUACCESS, you could see everything EFTA00062556

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Ww co Ww that happened the shift before unit. that would be He’s - SENTRY is But TRUACCESS is you show it to You know, iar with this? EFTA00062557

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WwW a : If on that sheet - let’s go we know that inmat s cell mate. Okay. And so if you look at Truthfully, I couldn’t tell t deal with a lot of the lingo that they use on SENTRY, so said, I know he was has to do something would EFTA00062558

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wi =] -- being packed out? a: If I had to take a gue 4 educated guess, yes. But to tell you exactly No wo 1] wn S, an 5 what that means, I couldn’t tell you, 6 unfortunat wo a : -- when is that filled out? 0 Do you know? Not in general. Who fills that out and when is that filled out? 2 GN: ie ll, this is a little bit - 3 many people have access to this. Not many, but 4 it’s not just one person. But R&D could adjust 5 this log, Counts and Assignments, which is 16 Control #2, they could adjust this log and the Lieutenant’s office could adjust this log. So 7) 8 that’s the main areas that would adjust it. 9 ee : And when would they 20 adjust those logs? Does that coincide with 21 being keyed in and keyed out or -. 22 Ee : Yeah. It happens, you know, 23 more times, I guess, during the day when court 24 happens and all that, but this could happen at 25 any time because inmates are constantly moving. EFTA00062559

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Because as you can see, it’s also from cell to cell or unit to unit. So let’s say at night you come in and they’re moving four inmates to a different unit, this log has to get updated even though it’s in-house and they’re only moving unit to unit, you’ve got to know where they are so that’s why some of these are just unit to unit, you could tell. ae : Are they supposed to do it immediately or is it something that you can wait until the next day to do it? ae : If, I mean, I don’t know if there’s an exact rule, but I would assume it has to happen the same day. I don’t think the next day would be beneficial for the, you know. a : And this is key - is this log correspond directly, like, let’s say an inmate gets keyed in and out. Would this get automatically updated or this is a separate log altogether? ee : Well, when you say, “Keyed in and out,” what do you mean? ee : Let’s just say an inmate is being moved from one cell - from one unit to another, right? Someone has to key the inmate 51 EFTA00062560

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3 another co hat I’m sa OW W fee} another EFTA00062561

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wi Wo 1 ee : Or is this what’s in the 2 TRUACC or potentially TRUVIEW -. 4 for your unit. So that’s not going to adjust 5 thi 7 WN:_—« this is SENTRY. TRUACCESS 8 is just - so if I come in and I relieve you and i 9 I look and I’m like, “Oh, inmate Biaz (Phonetic O Sp. 7:29) went to seven north, he’s not on 11 five south no more,” and you’re like, “Yes.” rt 2 Okay, now, that’s not going to mess up my count 3 as I state and adjust this. 4 ee : What’s the difference 5 between that and BP-38? 16 WS: this is, like I said, the whole jail. So let’s say you tell me he went 8 to seven north, which he really did, but for wo whatever reason, they messed up on him, they 20 put him on seven south. When we do the count, N ras our count is going to be off. N ho vs) bh Q ion rt seven north calls in N a w 12] = 7 oO o 24 their count, the to be like, “Bad 25 count.” “What do you mean bad count?” ‘“You’re EFTA00062562

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1 inmate.” Because on here, 2 got him on ven south. Internal’s use in order to verify their This is the whole on ou know. n ct az o | wo Ne] WwW rybody had - you know, 4 main docum 6 does their thing, thi “Where are the inmat t right now?” fee} Well, Control ju wo you’re Control #2, you’ you know all the numbers for the building, , u’re supposed to know I’m not looking at nothing, I’m saying, you EFTA00062563

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wi uw 1 Officer, So and so, what’s going on?” And he ND wu. i. is) i ust has it on the computer already logged in. But when they - on this WwW ying is like if instance, is moved from point A to 6 point B, that automatically adjusts the count 7 that they see in Control? ay. 0 a : Can you initial and date that, on the top right th wo i) re? Right there. Do 2 you recall seeing that document on the day you ot) Qo a] =} o k he} c Q c n oO ct ies 16 clarification, we’re just getting educated. The line of our questions is because we don’t fee} work in the BOP, so people tell us different wo R o @ Qa is 19) wu ct @ a fe) Ss things. We just want to get mo n 20 that document. Is 21 wanted to talk about? No, I mean. they show the times of EFTA00062564

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Ne] WwW Ww individual is mean, everything is in know, not uld ke funny, but there’s - so, you c in SENTRY. It’s definite SENTRY but I don’t know if it would be on the EFTA00062565

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wi —) 1 a : Okay. Do you recall - well, id you’re not familiar - were you 3) 2 you cell mate at all? 3 familiar with Epstein’ uU oO - like I 7 said, I didn’t have much interaction with him. wo seen him, but he wasn’t f oO 0 a known inmate like that, so I don’t know - oH) Oo like Tartaglione had been there for years, 2 obviously I remember him and he stands out to WwW know, you know. knew who Reyes was because he was wo cell mate. Do you y’re probably right ause had he not been bunkie, I EFTA00062566

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Ne] WwW Ne] WwW fee} wo rt t n f What about as far as ju his name? I know we’re two years later, but at y ’ that time two years ago, do you believe most this institution, the name R known Just by sight is why you think so. don’t You never believe n wu fe] ini OD ct t ke wi oo EFTA00062567

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S) Nh t Nh No uU on wo 7) WwW wo WwW wi Ye) someone, if they saw the name Reyes, would have ” tt been like, “That’s a: No, not at all. HE: «0s you know how long Reyes was at pstein’s bunkie. Was it a short -. a : That’s the thing. I don’t know for sure but it had to be short. Like, if I had to take an educated guess, I would s short because I re t stands out to rt a wu remember when Epstein came back from suicide watch and ps ological observation? him 30th sound about right? ee : Maybe like almost about take a guess, I’d say one or two weeks maybe or the most, a month, it had to be between that EFTA00062568

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3 it wasn’t know -. talk about 4 was to take? wo now, Pp EFTA00062569

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wo wo a: (Indiscernible *00:43:06)? wer this question. a : Yeah, we just - that’s all I’m saying. We just know he went to court. Were you instructed on what action should be taken if Reyes was removed from Epstein’s - as Epstein’s cell mate? Ee : That would be Special Housing officers to, you know - no one would you know, actions to take because that’s not my unit. I’m just moving - I’m just bringing them. Like is said, we would help out needed, but as far as that, if they don’t need help, I’m just passing them off to them, so them, that’s their post, they know ‘ve got to take and all that. a : Do you remember any special instructions that were given to them in regards Q be 1) rt it] a w vs) o 0 wn be uy) Fh rt Kh 2) 5 EFTA00062570

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oO oo wo o ine) Oo wo ine] oO) No Right? How would the institution know he wasn’t coming back? It’s when they reach out and tell us. Who reaches out? I’m assuming the Marshals. But R&D would know better, but I’m assuming the Marshal mn What time of day would they notify? I guess when courts i n closed. Like, not when they’re closed, but when everything is over because what would happen is, the Marshals bring the inmates back, so. Around what time? : Whenever, you know, some people last longer in cour than others, so. But, as you know, some people get bail, some people get released, some people get just removed, period, wherever they go, but when the Marshals come back, that’s when everything gets updated or shortly before it. Whenever they got all the inmates in custody again, that’s when I guess everything gets updated. EFTA00062571

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o w 1 a : Is there as period in the day where usually the Marshals Ne] WwW you know? and 4 o’clock 6 count and the Marshals were waiting. Then I’ve came in and they’re still bringing in 9 they 0 always 1 come at one time? No > Oo fu it) rh ou K nT] 7] ai K re) 5 3 WwW experience, they bring people back at different 4 times of days. wo snts are bringing KNOW. EFTA00062572

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S) Nh Nh No wo WwW wo WwW like, “They should be here in a little while,” but there’s no om brine a : Okay. Now let’s say the listen, a certain ” I really - that’s you know, I get the inmate after he’s there and bring him to his unit, but that’s how the whole communication happens between them and the outside agencies, I don’t - you not my own area. ae : And as Internal, would you 1g everybody back. It’s not, you know. What’s the proce R&D. rtment, I don’t - I don’t know EFTA00062573

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 65 ever be notified if a certain inmate is not coming back? ee : I mean, yeah, they’ve told me, because remember, we’re doing the count. So, they may say, when I come, they may be, “Internal pick up two from R&D going back to the housing unit,” and when I come, they’d be like, “Oh, Reyes ain’t coming back for whatever reason,” but it’s through passing, they don’t have to tell me because what happens is, Control Center should be keying that in so that when I do my count, I don’t need to know that because on SENTRY, it’s already he’s no longer there and - you know what I’m saying? So if it is, it’s through common conversation but it’s not a must for them to tell me because where - we have the faith that everybody else did their jobs and the computer is, you know, everything is logged in and moved and accounted for so I don’t need to worry about that when I do my count. a : What count are you doing? Like as Internal, where do you do the counts? ae : We do the 4 o’clock when we come in. EFTA00062574

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No WwW wo wo 20 N c N nN N a Nh Nh uw hole building. that work? How does each You've count building. got to Sometimes, you know, maybe th y have a partner to count with them already, but we still have to pick up the count slip and everything, but at 4 o’clock, every unit has to be counted. At 10 o'clock every unit has to be counted. At -. ssist with the Sometimes they don’t. you go to each unit and ifs] a counts? If they need assistance. They have a already or their relief helps them helps them. Anybody can help them an employee. So I get there and they have the count slip and they just give it to me, like, “It’s done already, here,” you know. le building freezes Well, you know that. well, I’m informing don’t know. EFTA00062575

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oO 1 Ee : Yeah. There’s no there’s no anything when the Ne] 9 he weekends is 0 5 on 3 counts? 4 Ee : I would - the 4:00 p.m. wo You know, they normally - 99.9 ir own unit. percent of the time, don’t need a back on the count. We call it a the count, sor to b t count by EFTA00062576

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10 11 12 13 14 17 18 19 yourself. But they usually have, you know, more than one officer to help them, so usually only people inside SHU count SHU. a : Do you recall who the officers were in the SHU that day? Do the COs fill out any paperwork for the count? a : The count slip. a : And what happens to the count slips? Ee : They hand it to us and we bring it to the Control Center and the Control Center gives it to Control #2, which is C&A, Counts and Assignments and he does a cross list based off of what he has in the computer and what was counted on the units and he’d be the one to say - because they also got to call it in to them besides us giving them the paper. So they’11l tell them right there, “Good count,” ”" count that means you’re good. “Bad count,” again. And bad count means obviously you’ve got the wrong numbers. a : If there’s a bad count, what happens? a : You got to recount, right? If you recount and it’s a bad count again, they 68 EFTA00062577

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 69 do what’s a bed book count and we get a print out of every inmate’s ID and they’ve got to come to the window, we look at their face, they’ve got to say their name and ID number and we keep moving. If it’s still a bad count from there, they got to make phone calls to Captain and everything and let them know that we have possibly an inmate that escaped or whatever. That’s the Lieutenants, I don’t know, you know, but I just know they get advised, like, “Listen, we did two counts plus a bed book count and it’s still wrong.” a : Okay. Do you recall if you got the count slips from the SHU on August 9th? ae: I’d be lying if I told you if I did or didn’t. ME: kay. ae : Is it possible? Yes. But because I have a partner, he might have picked it up and I didn’t pick it up. You know what I’m saying? So I don’t remember exact what units I grabbed or didn’t grab. ee : Okay. We’ll move on. If an inmate is moved from the SHU to another unit, can you explain the process including who would EFTA00062578

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10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 have to be notified? a : When you say, “Removed,” what do you mean? Like just -- a : Let’s just say -. ee: -- just sent back to general population or -. a : Or any other unit. If they move into another unit, including R&D. ae: So if an inmate in SHU is on what’s called the kick out list, that means their time is up, you know, with whatever they went in SHU for, their time is up, they get put on a kick out list and the kick out list gets cleared by everybody, SIA, the Captain, R&D, the Lieutenant, everybody signs off on it. There’s a bunch of people. So that usually happens day time, and then by night time, they’ re being kicked out because everything was signed off on because they can’t go to certain units with separations or if they had a problem on that unit. So it’s a process. It’s a lot of forms they’ve got to go through. So, right there, if it was on the kick out list, that’s how many people were notified and they already know about it, you know. 70 EFTA00062579

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10 11 12 13 14 17 18 19 a : What about actually when your physically moving the inmate? Let’s just say the SHU CO is taking the inmate and they’re getting ready to move out, who do they have to - do they have to notify anybody or they just can walk out with the inmate? a : But you’re saying move out where? That’s what -. ae : Like, let’s just say they’re moving to R&D. They’re taking an inmate from the SHU and moving to R&D. ae : If they’re going to R&D, same sort of thing. They know already, you know, everything that’s going on. Now if they’re calling for us, they got to tell us, like, “It’s one from SHU,” so we know no one else could be in the elevator because they’re going to be handcuffed -- HS: -— sand whatnot. So we can’t have no inmates and if they’re going to R&D, we got to say, “Clear R&D, we got one from SHU coming,” or attorney conference, lock everybody in or move all the inmates because we’re bringing one to attorney conference. But, EFTA00062580

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Ne] WwW WwW about it. Do you recall if any were moved after you started the shift August 9th, any inmates were mo a : Do you recall seeing inmate a : The name sounds familiar, H 0 fu a rt ue} oc rt w Kh w Q ri] rt ie) bh t+ a : Was there an inmate in R&D ae: There had to be an inmate in I mean, every day there is, every week s inmates in R&D without a -. a : Someone that was placed ina Ee : That I couldn’t tell a : In a dry room? a : Correct. : A dry cell you mean? a : Dry cell or dry room. ible EFTA00062581

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1 of inmates going on dry 2 don’t remember the Internal, an 2) wo om 11 a : You radio the rec ll, they radio me. iving unit? WwW H t @ b 5 wf bh ~ 0 w 3 8 wo And I come to you and you kick out list, I look, I tell uy ” rou got one c ming to you,” you know, ” yen South, you got one coming to you,” and ” I’ll bring them. “Five North,” whatever the case may be. Control get EFTA00062582

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ow oO ~—] 10 11 12 13 14 17 18 19 notified also? a : Yes. Because they got to update - C&A has to update all the, you know, the SENTRY paperwork for the count and everything. a : And are they allowed to move any inmates without notifying Control? Ee : Cell to cell or unit to unit? ee : Unit to unit. ee: No. Control has to figure it out because it will mess the count up. If you just move an inmate to Five North and tell nobody, when we do the count, we’re going to want to know why your unit is short and his has an extra body. So eventually, Control has to be notified about something. Now, if it’s just cell to cell, you know, maybe your sink breaks on the unit and you’ve got an empty cell over there and you move him there. That’s, you know, and you do it yourself in the log, that’s different. But anything leaving the unit, Control has to know. a : Okay. And does Control have to open the outer doors for each unit for EFTA00062583

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~l uw 1 people to move or can anyone open those doors? 2 a : Special Housing, they 6 talking about. wo Now, regular units, they 0 could control that door, but we have a key also to open it because there’s constant movement, y’re going to rec, general 3 population i is] movement all day. Who is going 4 to psychology, who is going here, so when we 5 come, they could open that door, but in an 16 emergency, Control can pop it. But Super Max, 7 which is Ten South and SHU, nine cell, that 8 front door, they don’t have the key to. They wo have to -. 20 HS: St’ ss all Control. it’s all Control N c K oO w a N nN N a 07] 0) 2) =] ee : Do you have anything e Nh er you’re done, I’m Nh uw EFTA00062584

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y. And again, when you Ne] WwW I’m sure there was inmates in there, but I 8 don’t remember exactly if there was inmates, 9 how many, u know, w Okay. We’ re talking a long time ») n n .Q oO a] =] on fu I Oo rt Oo Fh its) stuff has happened since, know. I’m going to move on. I don’t know the - Unit Manager 22 or Case Manager, I don’t - it’s one of those Do you recall if he was EFTA00062585

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surrounding the 2 incident, he was working, I just can’t 3 remember if I saw him that exact day. 7 a : I knew Epstein made a phone 8 call, I didn’t know who gave it to him though. 3 9 0 11 gave it to him. Usually it comes from Unit 2 Team, so I’m it Unit 3 Team. But I - to say it was exactly a. 4 because I didn’t phone call, I just 5 k 10ow he had a phone call. a : So how did you know there was 7 a phone call? 8 9 mentioned it. 24 EFTA00062586

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10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 78 evening of August 9th. a : And this is when he’s headed back to the SHU? ee: Either heading back or going - I just know that his - because, for a while, he wanted what’s called his PAC number. His PAC number is so that he can make a phone call. So the lawyer had asked me, like, “Who do I have to talk to to get him his PAC number.” This is prior to March 9, or -- MEME: cust oth. Ee: -- August 9th, I’m sorry, I’m all over the place - prior to August 9th. He said, “Yeah,” - she said, “He needs his PAC “" number, just asked, “All right, I’11 find out, you know, why he didn’t get his PAC number.” Turned out he had his PAC number, so I told her the next day, I said, “He has his PAC number.” She said, “All right. He said he didn’t have it,” blah, blah. So when I asked him, I said, “Why did you tell your lawyer you don’t have it? You have it, you showed me.” He said, “No, but they said they monitor those phone calls.” I said, “Yeah. It’s the jail,” you EFTA00062587

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10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 719 know. So his lawyer then asked, how does he get an unmonitored phone call, to me. I said, “That goes on a different level, a Lieutenant or Unit Team is the only ones that could do that when they’re in Special Housing. An officer cannot do that.” So after that, I remember he kept on wanting a phone call from either Unit Team or the Lieutenant but it was never happening and then that day, I forget how it came up, but he was happy, he was like, “Yeah, I got my phone call finally.” But it wasn’t like a whole conversation, I just remember him saying it. So I know he got a Phone call. I just don’t know who gave it to him and, you know, what transpired that got him that phone call, but I know he was finally like, “I got the phone call,” like happy about it. a : Were you present for the phone call when he made the phone call? a : Do you know where he made that phone call? a : In Special Housing. a : And do you know how the phone EFTA00062588

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uw oO 10 11 12 13 14 17 18 19 call was made? a : No. That I don’t know, but if I - in Special Housing, normally it’s when he’s in his cell because the phone jacks are on the tier. But one is monitored and one is unmonitored. So, if Unit Team gave it to him, you know, it was probably unmonitored. a : Unmonitored? ee : Is that normal practice to give it unmonitored? ae : When they’re in Special Housing, yes, so that they can reach out to their lawyer and, you know, we’re not allowed to listen to that type of conversation. But, the officer can’t give him that phone call. It’s Unit Team or a supervisor and what normally happens is they give the card, you know, the lawyer’s card, they’1l call the number, “Okay. It’s here,” and then, “Here,” and give the phone through his slot and then it, you know, it cuts off at a certain time. ee : Now being that he was with his lawyers all day and that phone call comes around and what if it wasn’t his lawyer that he 80 EFTA00062589

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 81 called, what if it was somebody else? Is that a: I mean, I’m not going to say it’s not possible. It’s definitely possible, but from what I’ve seen, when people get phone calls, because I’m not allowed to give unmonitored phone calls, but what I’ve seen is, like I said, they’1ll dial it for the inmate and wait and then, “Oh, Attorney Rodriguez office,” “Oh, okay, you have a client so and so?” “Okay,” and then they hand it. So, but if they have the number written on a piece of paper and you call it and the inmate tells you, “You’re ” my father,” and I’m like, “Just say that you’re Attorney So and So,” how do I know. You know what I’m saying? There’s no way to - so I’m sure there’s a lot of inmates that make unmonitored phone calls and trick whoever is giving it to them, but, as far as I know, that’s how they’re able to judge if it’s an attorney or not. a : Were you asked to monitor that call that night and be with him when he made that phone call that night? EFTA00062590

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ow oO ~—] wo 10 12 13 14 any of the COs allowing inmates to make calls using the legal line to people other than attorneys? ee: Well, the legal line is the unmonitored line and, like I said, as far as I know, no, but I’m not there every time someone gets a phone call, you know, I can’t vouch for everybody that hits that tier and does something. a : That night when you saw him at last, you mentioned that you had a conversation with him in the -- Ee : Elevator. ae : -- elevator. How was his demeanor? WN: es seemed happy, you know, mean, happy that he got the phone call and that’s about it. Like nothing, you know, he was starting to adapt. It seemed like he was starting to adapt. Because when he first came in, I think he thought like, “I’m getting out ” of here. He had that mentality, like, “Oh, I’m not going to be here long.” Then it sunk in that he was not going nowhere no time soon I 82 EFTA00062591

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wo co wo N Nh N rs la Nh ine] uw co Wo and that’s when he seemed a little down and 07) then he started being, you know, I gues ting I would say, he was getting used to things, like, you know. ay. How was Epstein’s interactions with other inmates? a : Truthfully, he was never really around other inmates, just through the windows on the tier and because he was never general population, so, whenever he was around an inmate it was - even when he went to attorney conference, he was locked in a room, so it was always just through passing, but -. Ee : I’m just getting the court appearance ready, so. a : Okay. We'll make it quickly. I only have a few more and I think he has follow up questions. HS: os you know if there was threats made to Epstein? I know of. on August 10th when Epstein was found? Ee : No. I worked the evening EFTA00062592

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Ne] WwW co Ww I worked overnight, so, when the night that actually did gave it to him. saw he had the That was with Tartagli EFTA00062593

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3 have a PAC number, do you always have to 4 maintain p 5 HE: «Xo, 2 lot of guys remember ay. But if he was 8 provided it prior to Tartaglione, did that mean hat that would have still been his PAC number wo ct 5 ry 0 after he came back from suicide 11 a : Yes. Your PAC number is 2 your PAC number. WwW 5 ae: Well, I mean, he showed me a al if) 0] 16 paper with it. Whether it was someone el paper, why would he do that, but he showed me a fee} paper with a PAC number on it. wo this, 21 monitored.” ay. When 9th, you know the telephone call took do you know when phone call t co 1) EFTA00062594

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Ne] then you said WwW call in the elevator? 6 to ys in e elevator because we picked to Special Housing. ound that O time. WwW 7 a : Because I’m trying to 8 remember now if I heard it - I heard it in the 20 bringing him I’m trying to 21 think if it was when I was bringing him back or 22 bringing him to. I don’t know, to be honest, EFTA00062595

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Ww telephone call? a : Yes, that I know. So you do know that a telephone call was a : Yeah. Whether it - what time of day it was on my st call,” like, he in the SHU communicating with him? EFTA00062596

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N WwW wo WwW wo Nh ee : Because the only reason I unde tanding came back. I But, he could y told him he And maybe know he mentioned the phone actually brought him from attorney conference can’t remember exactly that day if I brought him into the S co co EFTA00062597

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Ne] WwW at all when po of us did, I had with him though -. happened during my shift. But you don’t know that it happened on A with you? ntially the Captain authorized co Ye] EFTA00062598

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Ne] WwW Ww tor back to the § ying back and the day or was it morning once at ni and once. But imes it was just once situation, ma EFTA00062599

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Ne] WwW co Ww 4 rh a 0) Ee : So it’s not abnormal i went back if and we a : Yeah. I can’t remember. they go y. And wi back ugh, d Internal always > have to be with him or no? HS: «No. 0S That’s what I’m saying. of the time, t A bh huge situation on one of the units and me and ndling it, “Listen, bring “” him back, you know, or, “Do what y got to 91 EFTA00062600

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No WwW No WwW wo 1, 0 do, else acco 3:15 cell move you know, it’s not to do it. ent for that telepho ear anything. Th lly. rding to Lieuten p.m., inmate from the hadac d him -- abnormal for someone wy ut you weren’t 1 and you didn’t is won’t take but a Where is the day e 9th. All right. So ant’s log, you see at dry So, if that -m. count, ount slip for him? happens is - so, dry cell - where they ts) ine) EFTA00062601

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wo wo wo Wo right. a: Exactly. But -. fF Read the top too. HS: «Sorry, so the top says, “Inmate Fernandez on dry cell with staff watching R&D.” what would happen is, especially that it’s specified right there, R&D would have their own count slip. So R&D has their own count slips sometimes because ue] eople come back from court, let’s say, right before the count and we didn’t get to put them back in the unit so they stay in R&D. So there’s plen of times R&D will QQ P- 0 Cc 7 fw count slip, like, “We got three ” inmates in here,” “We got four inmates or one.” it) So, in this situation, he would be on R&D’ count slip. : Okay. Is R&D responsible for calling someone, whether Internal or Control to say, “Hey, we’ve got a count slip “” for your guy EFTA00062602

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N N Nh Nh No wo wo i) WwW uw Ee : We go to every unit. p.m., you would have visited R&D to eo" say, “Hey, you got a count slip for us? Ee : Well, it all depends because what happens is, R&D has, you know, quite a b of staff members in it. So let’s say, for whatever reason, you work in R&D going downstairs for something, you’ll bring ’ your own count slip down. And then, as I’m doing the count, I’1l ask Control, “What count slips are you mi “Oh, Seven North and ing? Seven South,” So I’m not even going to go to R&D because you didn’t say R&D, which means someone brought you the count slip. So it’s possible, yeah, we do go if we have to but it’s not always because sometimes people bring the count slip down, you know. moved there, should have been a count slip for oO EFTA00062603

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Ww co Ww fee} a : What would 95 + 1 mean? a : I don’t know. 1) EFTA00062604

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Ww Ww fee} You ever seen a + 1 before? doodle, you know, like write their own thing in to figure out a but I don’t know where would -. th, y uth + 1? think that tl! 0) that be something tt EFTA00062605

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Ne] WwW WwW Well, it dow "But You know 2 n. Like, anyb c what I’ms you somet “Look, I could have = ifs) recall on hing that EFTA00062606

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WwW wo for midnight, were =, ’ do you know? y Would have you oO EFTA00062607

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Ne] WwW WwW wo Ve} s no R&D for these, so the assumption is at - you have i] tH) something. at the o O - these are all a : No, I’m looking at the sible, but -. don’t know? EFTA00062608

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Ww unit? 6 guy watching suicide watch is HA. If you co ti ra rt bh rt roe Oo @ fa ot that that’s R&D. fee} H ct A @ a] fe] 9 | | 0 not -- EFTA00062609

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N N Nh Nh wo wo ho WwW uw you wanted - I know that they’ve got to go, so is there anything else you wanted to ask -- ae: No, no, we’re fine. ee : -- with the counsel? ee: I can do it right here. ' Y: But yu never seen, “+ 1.” You believe that that was more than likely added on the 10:00 p.m. count after the count slips were returned? Ee : Yes, because normally, see checkmarks? offs? So when you get how — Oo i=) 7] i] 0] wu B b rt ia oO n the count slip, R&A, Control #2 does the to make sure, right unit, right number, right date, everything is a signed.” If something is written on it, ” normally you'd be like, “I’m not taking this, because it could become official document. ee : You know? The back, sometimes people write on the back, you know, math to t to figure out exactly what their numbers are, but on the front, normally you’re not writing nothing on the front because you 101 EFTA00062610

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Ww But I was ved in the mid 102 you do not recall (Indiscernible you know who would slips at midnight? xesides Internal, EFTA00062611

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Ne] n w kK it) Know how Tt I don’t 10w how that - : You don’t know ho Ww rm oO that happen before? 6 7 thing and - now, do people mess up and write 8 Yeah. nd this back, what you wrote on when all in, ZA EFTA00062612

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No N WwW wo 7) WwW wo send paperwork. When I get the paperwork, see how you’re checking? negative, send that alled in.” what did I call in?” - then count again. “I’m not going to tell you what you called in. you want to paus I think we can be done. me — I’m just And sir, I’1l just remind you that it’s a : All right. So you menti ontrol officer checks off the count ned earlier that 104 EFTA00062613

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1 a : -- they mark it? a : Yeah, so, on the paper here 3 first, right? This is a must. This -. 4 WN: hat would be the E-1 document, right? N ow on K oO if] . What happens is you do 7 one line in the X when they call you and it’s 8 right, you make the line, you hang up. When wo you get the paperwork and check it and it 10 matches wha rr they called i 1, you do the second le line. So this is a must. This, I don’t know 2 if there’s a rule about it, but I know since 3 I’ve worked that post, you know, I was always 4 taught that that’s how you do it, make sure 5 unit is correct because sometimes people - if 16 you work overtime on one unit, then all of a 7 sudden you go to another, you might forget and 8 put that unit’s number on it. So, the units wo are right, the dates are right time, number, 20 you got two signatures, we’re good. 21 ee : So what you’re referring 22 to right now is the count slips -- 24 ee : -- and as you go through each, basically line item on the count slips, ine] uw EFTA00062614

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Ww co Ww Now, Truthfully, I would That you correct? All right. we’re looking at the -. rything it shows count sl that were checked off except those EFTA00062615

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Nh Ww ie] ww wo 107 you know, those would be the only two not dded number on the front, the + 1 on it -. H rt be oO re] nw tr] bh rt oO D d ny] Cc tr] o bh ct Ee : Yeah. In my opinion, it doesn’t look like the people that filled out #2 which would be the one to, as they’re going through it, to actually EFTA00062616

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Ne] WwW WwW mark and they’ E-1 would be a a: for the midnight right? 10th, Andrea, but also, midn said, I = a oo handling re doing the good verbal and According to the roster, the p.m., it And who would it have been count? That we he 10th then, Yeah, 10th, midnight. 10th, midnight? All could ha ight, it sometime Li if there’s a don’t know EFTA00062617

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109 1 rule for this, it’s just the way I was taught 2 anda lot of senio 3 don’t know, you kno ere taught Wi s not odd if the Lieutenant 6 that took the count didn’t do it, but most of wo did QJ finish i) wu rt Ke oO ie] 4 Ww K i) wu in n Oo rt s 7 ct . 0) Which one would wo 21 over, yeah, so it would be || most likely. No No So would have | | done also the midnight or would he also have been Nn Ww 24 relieved early and then the ne son would have done it? EFTA00062618

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Ne] WwW Ne] WwW wo be wh So (In thi cou Ee : No, so midnight would either his relief, unless he didn’t get relieved, on here it shows someone else it would be his relief or, like I lly takes the midnight count *01:20:00). ng would be, you’ve never seen a + one on dis nt slips before? no. ee : Yeah, but what about -- ae: Now, if -- a : -- after the fact? Does Control that works Control. D no up, no, up with a EFTA00062619

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N N Nh Nh wo wo ho WwW uw number on the front like that. be your educated guess then, and it is a that the 10:00 p.m. count were these two, i) 1] be that is ZA and the R&D, would yur gues somebody other than the unit Ee : -- it would be a guess than likely or who was doing the count? Ee : Whoever was taking the know, whoever was in the that that’s where it came from. an interpretation, but do you have an edu interpretation what this 1 and the 7? would mean? GS: No. 2S Because if I had guess, you were saying that the 73 was and it w supposed to be 74, you would j fill out a new count slip and put 74. You Control Center, somehow that I would assum d it guess, 7] the that like more count 1e ld be cated wrong 111 EFTA00062620

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112 1 not going to put a + 1 on there so I don’t 2 understand why there would be a + 1 there. It 3 doesn’t make no sense to me. 4 ee : And did you ever hear of 5 ghost counting? oO K i) 7) H 0] fo) i) fu K on fe) hh Te o Oo o rt 7 counting. But even if you ghost count, you 8 would not put + 1 on there. The count slip wo would re hing about if - so, for instance, if the you know? Now, do 00 p.m. and 10:00 p.m. numbers re - they w WwW match up on the count slips as well as on the 4 E-1, howe. y’re actually wrong, both of 5 that in, for instance, the 16 the number that Control is 8 again. 9 Yeah. 20 So for education 21 that is on this 22 - 23 s the active 24 number. i) uw \ \ R count actually EFTA00062621

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Ne] WwW WwW 113 amount of Control are supposed to be in that unit. So, if the number that with they’ re both in the SHU, do they number that they’re provide? account slip and then that’s the number we’ve write your paper, your count slip. EFTA00062622

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Ne] WwW WwW called -- = > w a A 7 ie } rt a Ee : -- the (Indiscernible ee : -- two follow up question now. So if they’re writing down a number that they think Control has, do they have way to know the numb that Control has? is looking t. What number report a : -- yes and no. The reason 20dy has that. But, let’s say I work that p days a week and two days a week I work somewhere else. I have access to it because I’m there three dé 114 EFTA00062623

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oo wo o wo ine) oO ine] NS — ine] uw 115 have access -—- So you still have access to ible that someone had access it. So it’s it) pos don’t just take it immediately, your access, you know, if you’re there three it’s days a week, you’re going to have it. ’ possible, s, but as far as knowing if they did, I don’t know. I don’t know who has access, who doesn’t. Like I had access for a long time, then they took it because I stopped working here for a while, so I don’t know who has it and who doesn’t. I don’t even know who takes it and gives it, to be honest. a : And have you ever experience anything where the person calling in the number actually says, “Hey, what number am I supposed to have?” ee : So that never would happen? Ee : I mean, not that it would never but it’s never happened in my interaction of working that post and calling in a count. EFTA00062624

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WwW 116 missing. Hd jen fw Do you know how long those calls would be monitored? I mean would be retained? that’s not something I would know. But, think the more likely scenario tho are in fact numbe v] io] 07) slip as well as with EFTA00062625

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N N Nh Nh wo wo ho WwW uw 117 would h had access to the Control number to be able to write in that, the number that they were looking Ee : I mean, it’s possible Ghost oO oO Q wu is n oO het Oo Cc on iad Oo e its a ct Cc ue] i) Te} cS Oo ts) ct ie] Oo c Ss rt ae: Why don’t you explain ghost count to make sure you’re both understanding ee : What is the -. Ee : -- ghost count is. ee : What is a ghost - what a : So, what a ghost count would be, let’s say - I’m trying to think of a scenario where it would - okay, it’s count on, I’m counting, all of a sudden, you’re throwing up crazy, like ridiculously and there’s blood in the throw up and everything. So I call for Medical. Medical is like, “Bring him to me, you know, bring him to Medical.” I bring him to Medical. We’re EFTA00062626

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wo wo change the count for your unit, we know where at. Ee : We visually see him in Medical, we know he’s in Medical. So, although you may only have 72 people on your unit now because on is in Medical, we may say, “ghost count, we know where he’s out, we m just keep his as 73 on your unit, doing a whole new SENTRY, that he’s in Medical and we’re going to send him right back. ee : So for the 4:00 p.m. count, if Fernandez is moved at 3:15 to R&D dry cell, would that be a reason to do a ghost count at 4:00 p.m.? because the log is updated. So to update the log and put him in -. updated at that time? What if he’s not -- ee : -- keyed out of the unit EFTA00062627

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N WwW wo WwW 8 wo No ) 24 scenario you have time to do all the wasn’t, then y ghost counted, because, you’ve a visual on know where he’s at and it happened unt time, i is bh bh Ww moved out has to be -- th door outer o ntrol would to Control has nave to That Fernand moved -- would be Uh-huh. to a dry cell. re ) »f SHU and placing him in a di © That w updated h, it’ Fernandez be notifi fferent = K w at rest of Ss like I him and around still is pop it Who sponsible for keying Fernandez out unit? uld be Control #2, EFTA00062628

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ow oO ~—] wo 10 12 13 14 120 ee : So Control would be not ee : SHU, if they have access, can do it. But as far as SENTRY paperwork, that’s the Control Center. Ee : So Control should have been the one that did that? ae: Yeah, the Counts and Assignment Officer, which is C&A Control #2 in a the Control Center, they’re the ones that would do the SENTRY paperwork for hat. ee : And would they know if they say, moving Fernandez to R&D dry cell, would they know automatically, “I need to key him out,” or would that be something that SHU ” would also say, “Can you key in the -. ae : It depends who’s working the SHU and what they have access to. You know, I had senior officers that, like I said, have access to it and they’1l tell Control, “I got it. Don’t worry about it, I know you’re busy, you’re doing everything else, I got it.” But if you have someone working the SHU, which is very possible because of all the overtime, who EFTA00062629

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oo wo ow fon) o ine) Oo wo ine] ine] uw 121 doesn’t have access or doesn’t know how to do re not doing it, Control has to -. ee : But would that be a conversation they would have about -- “” automatic control being like, “We’1ll do it. a convers Ee: Well, regardless, a conversation they’re going to have because they should have. Control looks on camera, pops the door, they ij t w that inmate, what numbers he is, where - you know, so they would have to say, “Inmate so and so, what’s his reg number? , hat’s his ID number so I can do all the paperwork for it?” You know, you can’t just sume by looking at the camera, you know, the w w w 0 ameras is - I don’t know about now, but they used to not be that clear where you could tell exactly what inmate, you know. ee: Would that be done over EFTA00062630

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Ne] WwW wo the radio that this conversation would have or a : You're not going to say all that information over the radio. You may say, to dry cell,” or would Control we need -” - you know, when looking to actually - the SHU is looking to actually move this first of all, SHU would ca it, right? Internal? a : Well, it all depends what’s going on but Internal could help with the move. Lieutenant would be on ae : So what w is a situation had to happen. For you to on — down to dary - EFTA00062631

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oo wo o wo ine) oO ine] NS — ine] uw = nN Wo you know what dry cell is or no? Ee : Explain it -- ee : Explain it, go ahead. Ee : -- to them because I think that there might be a disconnect -- : Yeah. : -- in terms of -- : -- what they understand. : Dry cell is an inmate possibly swallowed drugs or something, we don’t know what it is. jJallowed it, so we put ‘ him on dry cell, which means he has to use the 13) bathroom three times and a supervisor has to go through it to see if there’s drugs in there before he can get cleared coming off dry cell. And he has to be visually watched. So what happens is, if someone goes on dry cell, the Lieutenant advised immediately because with the inmate where o either you’re in a tussl he tried to put the drugs in his mouth or you’ re seeing him through a cell and you’re ” like, “LT, I got one, he just swallowed drugs, or, “I need you to respond.” Then the Lieutenant makes the decision to put him on dry EFTA00062632

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ow oO wo wo uw 124 cell. I’m not just putting someone randomly on dry cell. ee : So, the Control may know over the radio or may not because if all I say is, “I need a Lieutenant in Special Housing and a Lieutenant come up and I’m verbal and everything to him and I’m not saying it over the radio and the Lieutenant is like, “All ” right, put him on dry cell, come on,” you know, “Strip him out and everything.” Control don’t know what’s going on, they just know I asked for a Lieutenant. You know what I’m saying? ee : So my questions is though, when they’re actually making the move down to dry cell, is that on the radio, fs) “Control, can you pop the door? We’re moving ” him to dry cell,” or is that always a phone call? HS: «ike I said, obviously Control has to know to pop the door, but you might not be telling them everything over the radio. Ee : You might just say - there’s EFTA00062633

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 125 a bell on the outside of the door, so the Lieutenant rings the bell, “Control, I need the 27 door popped for Lieutenant Gonzalez.” They’ re going to pop it because they look on camera, the Lieutenant is there. Now once he’s inside, the door is locked, “Control, we need 27 popped, exiting with one.” Now we’re exiting. Now from there, if I’m in the Control Center, I’m calling SHU, like, “Yo, is that inmate coming back? What’s going on?” So and so. But everybody works different. ee : All right, so, I guess this will be my last questions. a : There’s no protocol exactly on how to communicate that movement because you don’t know if he’s coming back, you don’t know. I’m assuming if an inmate went to R&D for dry cell, they would put him on what’s called the X-ray machine because there’s a machine in R&D that reads the body, like the TSA machines. Because you could do dry cell in Special Housing, you don’t have to move them for that. If you have an empty cell, you shut the water off, you put them in dry cell in Special Housing with the Lieutenant. So the fact that EFTA00062634

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N N Nh Nh wo wo i) WwW uw they went to R&D, it was probably to doa scan to see if something was in his stomach or that area. ee: And if you’re doing that, it’s possible he’s going back so you’re not going to tell Control right away because if I don’t see nothing on the scan, the Lieutenant “rer m not putting him,” you know, and | tti‘iai‘éwl That was going to be my question, although I thought you answered it by saying there’s no standard protocol, but do you have like a best guess educated, you know, guess on Lieutenant’s log says, “Fernandez is moved at 3:15 down to R&D dry cell,” -- ee : -- however he’s never keyed out of SHU. Be 7) ct guess, of when it, you know, what happened basically. ee : Truthfully, no. There’s no y, you know, there’s a million scenarios that > C could have went down. = N nn EFTA00062635

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Ww talk to the Lieutenant or figure out should just know if that you all to talk about the Control Center to know. nds something else. We’1l 0] ct a my rt would lik 127 EFTA00062636

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uU oO wo wo much for your time and your and your cooperation. It is currently 1:00 p.m. on July 15, 2021. This is Senior Special Agent | PF and I’m turning off the recorder. EFTA00062637

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129 oO rtify that the ate transcript of the EFTA00062638

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