DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INS AUGUST 5, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES EFTA00062293

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APPEARANC OR GENERAL EFTA00062294

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wo Ne] WwW wo ie] a. The recorder is now on. My name is U.S. Department of Justice, Office of the entials. Metropolitan Row, New York Senior Specia interview will Department of Justi a D Wo EFTA00062295

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wo wo General. eee And these are my credentials. a: Okay. And my name is ft a. Senior Officer with the Federal Bureau of Prisons. a : And spell your last name, WN:_—«s This is an official investigation into the death of inmate, Jeffre Epstein, and the surrounding circumstances. You are being asked to voluntarily provide answers to our questions. Will you agree to a voluntary interview with the DOJ/OIG? a : Please review DOJ/OIG form III-226/2. It states, the United States Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector wu Bb 4 Gen oO K , Warnings and Assurances to Employee ed oO n ct ct Requ o Provide Information on a Voluntary Basis. “You are being asked to provide information as part of an investigation being conducted by the Office of the Inspector General. This investigation is being conducted EFTA00062296

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uw fo) 10 11 12 13 14 17 18 19 pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended. This investigation pertains to job performance failure, security failure, and false certifications. This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly -- a : -- you do not have to answer any questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you choose not to answer any questions. HE: bho. a : Any statement you furnish may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceedings, or agency disciplinary proceedings, or both.” HE: vb-huh. ee : The waiver states, "I understand the Warnings and Assurances stated above and I am willing to make a statement and answer questions. No promises or threats have been made to me, and no pressure or coercion of any kind has been used against me.” Please review the form. If you understand and agree, sign your name, and print your name right below it. ul EFTA00062297

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1 GS: «fee's a pen for you, if do I WwW wo is) ct ioe Bb o but like we mentioned, it’s going 2) 7 be primarily to review statement that 3 0 And just to ask for some 2 er with. Ww t o rt 07) get this for signing. This 5 I'm going to put d 6 21. And the time is 6:22 p.m. place is , New York. I'm signing at the fee} line for gnature of the wo ‘ 3 ctor General, Special Agent. Senior would you sign i . I'm signing as the witness. ee : Did you understand the form? stand it’s a EFTA00062298

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No WwW WwW voluntary interview -- Yeah. Like -. iswer if have to a You don’t want to. It’s I would like you under you ple right hand? the truth and hand will try and repeat it, or try to I just wanted to show EFTA00062299

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addre Wh wn Yup. at is your current current o © What is your date number? number? w rt b- 5 home EFTA00062300

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5 and now, I'm working here. 9 going ' military vt) | | wi r :) ju t o KK nT] 3 Q a Army. Hono dischar fer) j wr i) it] fa} you when Nh b Kb i) fh + ie ie] ct 5 o Federal Bu fears now. Appro EFTA00062301

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Ww date know approxim Army. whole time? EFTA00062302

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11 What is your erations tonight. schedule than us. hedule might not working right now, but EFTA00062303

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wo Ne] WwW wo Nh ie] interviewed by the FBI and OIG garding the Epstein investigation? notes along with ead it -- 1 i} us. c On t ct @ ra b 8 D Bb Hh ct az oO i] oO oy) any missing. 25, 2019, at approximately 11 along with Special Agent | | ice of th right. So, “On September hours, the undersigned, General, Special Agent fF of the Investigation, o Inspector EFTA00062304

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b Wo the southern Ne] WwW 4 Prisons Corr Date of birth: J, at the of New York. Thi tional uthern interview was a guard with approxima 0 all of wit at the 1 Metropolitan Correctional Center.” Mm-hmm. Ne] WwW nted in this 6 so. I mean, I wo understand this I know that d review it real EFTA00062305

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14 er with. Ne] t) k ie] Kh Oo A 3 oO o p rt 7 i) 4 completed all the basic and required training 5 for being a guard in the BOP, and that he is 6 currently nior officer in the Special Housing Unit (SHU).” Ww 5 is =| oO © af oO o number on 6 9 roster from that night. 20 it, 21 New York roster for Yeah. I was the number three man. . Who EFTA00062306

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1 was number one? Are u pointing to I. t) N K i) fw uw = C = = fw a i} = fu in 6 he non-custody, thou that he was 9 be kind of the 0 were you more 2 a : No. Actually, he has more time in the Bureau than I do. 5 would be kind of responsible, WwW that that works 20 21 You know, so, even if - 22 more time than me, he’s not - he started in custody - he has more time than me, so I guess gave him the filled in the sl rtime, wu. EFTA00062307

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16 I worked in there at that in time, but w to tell the man, like, number one, what am ave the annual fee] K o ju J fe) | | ot k B 3 3 or ie) f tr x 1) wu 7 a u a ct Q ary on t as fu EFTA00062308

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2 I'm going back. Yeah. In 3 the annual refresher I belie 6 remember at this point, but I could look it up 7 in computer. 8 much 9 , 0 Yeah. 2 *00:10:10). you recall, in 2019, if trainin probabl 24 remember EFTA00062309

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training? In 2019. Ww co on the don’t EFTA00062310

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N wo 7) ww wo 24 res. ee : Can you let me know who else worked with you during that n you - if u can refer to the roster. ht here, coming y.- For 2:00 to 10:00, do J number three, you had a. a. | | still working. And then, at 4:00, when the shift change came on, this is when these individua Noel was already there, got stuck for overtime t when they came in. And then, to SHU four, EFTA00062311

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Ww Ww fee} a: Mm-hmm. came going to continue can recall, he shift, and did not s was with his EFTA00062312

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wo a phone call. | informed that he made the “” n a : Go ahead. Clarify that for 3 o informed me to make a phone call. That’s, like, that ma a : Do you know his first name, EFTA00062313

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WwW | informed me, h H a wu ct A (3) Pe he o m Q ny] a] t ri) Oo Fh ow, picking it up. ME: | crew what you m -- that night, were you in happened? Did PY ant. oO the approach a : So, that night, when that happened, I'm running around, as I normally do, doing thin in the U. I get the call on the radio. You know, you’ve got to return, coming into SHU, or what brought in or whatever -- a : Who gets brought in? SHU. take them, pat search them, and everything like ore you put them in the cell. So, EFTA00062314

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10 11 12 13 17 18 19 the judge or anybody tell him that, like, yeah, he gets to make a phone call or whatever. So, okay, no problem. You know, you’re owing me at this point in time or whatever. So, now, at that point in time, there was a lot of stuff going on. That, I do remember. There was a lot of things going on. Two other inmates attempted suicides, and, you know -. ae : We’ll come to -. I'm going to go through that, too. a: Okay. a : You said, so, approximately what time did Epstein get brought back? Do you recall? a: It was 8:00 something, but it was, like, very close to, like, the end of the day. It was locking time. The day was done. Because Epstein usually did that. He would stay with his lawyers from the time in the morning, to the end, when they couldn’t stay no more. ae: So, he would wait all the way to the very end. And he came back after the legal visits were done, that’s around the time 23 EFTA00062315

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1 he came back. That day, a time, I 2 can't remember. But I know it was around 8:00 3 ish, you know, 8:00, 9:0( 5 a: Because the legal visits 6 usually end about 8:00. But, you know, there 7 was other things going on. You know that? 8 a : Who brought him back? a : FT handed him off to me. wo 11 ae: If I remember correctly. 2 a : -- so, he brought him back 7 and told me he needed a phone call or whatever. 8 So, I had to put Epstein, you know - where’d I 9 - I had to put him in the 20 because I couldn’t put him in the room, with 21 the phone, by himself, and I'm pulling out 22 other inmates at the time, because one of them 23 had a noose tied around his neck. He was 24 probably playing it, but you can't joke like EFTA00062316

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Ww Ww call. And And phone in? what did | instruct what - oh, just to give He never told me who any of the instructions, you put Alm in & EFTA00062317

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Ww Ww like, did | walk with you to the -? Did with y B use I didn't Q fit) phone. H I mean what ow, what he him over there to the No problem. put him in there, and then, I can't remember who plugged in the to give him call. I now. finish that EFTA00062318

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N Ww co Ww EFTA00062319

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S) Nh Nh No wo wo WwW yO informed that he made the decision to ier shower to have Epstein call make the call, and believ | were present, as well. || informed that | dialed the number for Epstein.” a : There we go. Yeah, this was a long time ago. he did not overhear the conversation, and that ft was present for the call initially. call ended. || guards Noel and r informed that Williams, was claiming to want to come in from suicide, so that diverted some guards And do you know how long I'm not sure how 1 that g we could look on t legal line, or the - line into tl EFTA00062320

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1 MS: t don’t. 2 ee : You don’t kno 3 recorded phone call? 5 a : Okay. And was that normal? | normally do that? Allow calls on egal line, or -? 8 a: Not without permission, to my knowledge. 0 GN: Who would have to give permission? 2 a : Like, I’ve heard times that, 3 you know, a judge may call, like, this person oO oO oO o i] J rt ~ 0] hb wo D 4 nee a ds a legal call. And when that happens or 5 whatever, like, all right, we got to get these 16 peo uel le a legal call. And so, that does happen, 7 but I’ve never known him to do that on his own 8 accord. a : Okay. Our understanding is, 20 based on the inve wo -igation, I think Epstein that he wanted to call his mother. So, ine] b n rt wu ct oO fo} wu 22 you think that would have been on the - that 23 should have been on the -? 24 a: That should have been on the 25 recorded line. EFTA00062321

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Ww co Ww d it should =] a v rt o uld hav w ut I was EFTA00062322

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Nh Nh No N WwW wo WwW wo WwW people that were in there, that stat | basically gave him a call, a back and said, hey, his phone ee : Does that sound rigt a : That sounds I do remember when -- ee. did, either. n, late call i about r I don’t think I took that I don't know everything was all said and done, th with the other inme remember who took the phone o helping somebody bring Epstei cell, and put him in the cell I was the one that put him in n ba you know, I ut. I , becau the ce ed that rh ct nd le r, called Ss up, go ight or call. But think you when en dealing can't do remember to his se I think ll. ee : You put him back into his ae: In his cell. EFTA00062323

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No WwW wo I don’t KNOW Now long after he started the ph brought him back to the ae: With everything g a : Just read it. a: -- I mean -. ee : I think it s could keep on reading, and then, it’1ll probably get to with inmate Williams, Epstein needed to be 0) r all the guards dealt placed back in the cell. | recalls no to move Epstein, so he guard Noel round paperwork, while he did some of the admini EFTA00062324

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Ww co Ww EFTA00062325

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ow oO oo wo wo around -? a: Because if his phone calls ended after 15-minutes, if ma did call back or whatever, and that phone call - that phone is supposed to die, it’s supposed to go off anyway after a certain timeframe. ee : Even on a legal line? a: Not on a legal line. ee : Right. So, the information we have is, it was actually a legal line call. little confused about, why he was given a personal call on a legal line. But do you know anything about that? ae: I know up there in that SHU, that if - and it’s very difficult, especially when you’re short-staffed - you know, you have orderlies that walk around and, you know, try to help keep the place clean. If you’re short staffed, and you can't be everywhere, and you have an orderly cleaning the tier, they will take those little things, and flip the, you know? Like, so, if you have somebody that’s EFTA00062326

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ies) uw 1 coming up to SHU to work overtime, who doesn't ere all the time, they don’t know 3 that the inmate pulled a fast one, and moved 4 the thing that says legal down to social, and 5 vice versa. 6 ee : Oh, well, the information 7 we have is actually, it was an intentional 8 legal line. So, not that, like, an orderly 9 actually misplaced it, but it was intentionally 11 ae: No, no, no. Not the orderly 2 putting the line in or whatever. What I'm 3 saying is the stickers on the jacks on the 4 wall. 5 ee : Yeah, no, our information that Fs actually was instructed, or provided, was provided approval to give a legal + fon) } fo 8 call. wo 20 Eee : And do a legal line. But 21 the instructions were also, that we understand, 22 that | Was supposed to monitor the entire 23 call. Hmm. Ee : And that’s where we’re Nh U Nh uw EFTA00062327

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1 trying to get, like, all right, well, how long 2 was that call, and how long did he monito Do 5 you know that? 6 a: That, I don’t know. Because I So, if it lasted 15 9 he was there for, like, 0 that he had to go ba 1 somewhere, and then call, and say, hey, his 2 call is up, get that -- 3 a: Yeah. 4 ee : -- phone from him. Do 5 you remember -? Just cause y put in the @ b @ 6 that he did stay for the call. I'm -- -- in your recollection wo about, about how long 22 five to ten minutes, but, like -- a: -- I mean, like, all that time now, and I was running around, EFTA00062328

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N WwW ies) wo 7) WwW wo 24 Sure. But just ¥ he wasn’t there for the whole entire thing? Right. No. fu because usually, on you really have to monitor, you could just go on the computer, and listen to the phone call. You know, on legal calls, you know, they have attorney/client privilege, so can't listen anyway. So, any time I know it legal call going on, 1] and I know I can't listen in, it’ bec¢ th or) oO oO is - well, but they put inmates in a little visit room for their legal calls, so could do the teleconference because of EFTA00062329

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Ww wo didn't think was a legal you lir Mm- But had you was §S And ht hmm. I can' listen to him up All right. if we t had more if And it to monitor was EFTA00062330

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Ww wo ive computer stuff.” Mm-hmm. the paperwork? That’s the minute round Sth, This would be during evening This is morning watch. w kK a rt s) mt) ve] EFTA00062331

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Ww wo wo working no idea whose shift. Yeah. I ma 2:00 p.m., and wasn’ rt EFTA00062332

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No WwW WwW because he =d the ee : -- filled in for the rest he stopped right here. probably didn't But I think we probably did sa what the hell is this? a. And then, as you noticed, know why the other round wouldn’t be filled - the round -? And the crew probably he the other counts EFTA00062333

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Ne] WwW WwW For the dz watch. The end that would be from -- From 2:00 to -- 2:00 p.m. -. Yeah. what I'm } oO Oo B- 5 Q umption - from what I'm looking a from the time FY got into work, he was the one filling out this paper. Nob 7] 7] n rt z iu) Ky iw) ht about it. probably thoi you the 30- about over EFTA00062334

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Nh No N N WwW wo WwW fee} wo ie] Ww ke m cr a: She wasn’t at work yet. we have information, informed us that she actually pre-populated the round sheets that she filled out. Do you know things, did she fill them all you? Did out in front of y should follow up. What did you see her do? Since you said that you saw her round sheets. ae: -- yeah, I just saw the round t sitting there, and she was le s just doing it for, I'm assuming that s! EFTA00062335

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44 1 okay, cool, we just did that round. And I'm on N rt ie o computer, doing the other admin work. ee : Okay. So, you just -- 4 a: Because -. 5 HE: «2 -- ssaw her doing 6 something, but you weren’t really watching over WwW 7 her? 8 a: Yeah. Because the thing is, because remember when you asked me about the wo 0 SHU one position, and I'm SHU three? This is 2 SHU one, but he’s on overtime. I worked up 3 there every day. I'm the only one who has 4 access to do the stuff on the computer. 8 were you doing on the computer? a: So, the computer, you do 583s. 20 You do the - there’s another SHU log-in there - wo 21 you do the -. n incident report, right? 24 a: Yeah. The incident reports. u do the daily, like, inmates took showers, n EFTA00062336

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Ne] WwW WwW and then, signature, but be nobody e tion will fall on me rwork still has to wu don’t. So, I'm, like -- a : -- handle this paperwork. The EFTA00062337

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Nh t Nh No N WwW wo 7) WwW wo WwW round, did you conduct a round through all the tiers, or just around up to Epstein, a: I specifically went a : I specifically went And you checked on Yeah. So, that, I think what his clarification You yrrect? ae: No. Not throughout pecifically checked on him. a : ‘i said that, before he said that left, he went back to and -”, oh, this -. he left, he went back to Noel a. and ‘Make sure you watch hi Referring to Epstein, “He’s your priority. good? He gave me a thumbs just to to that cked. I looked at didn't the SHU. ay. , before and m.’ “" up or 46 EFTA00062338

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wo wo The wording on this is wrong. stating that to YY and Noel? “Make sure you watch him”? Do you recall “He’s your priority.”? Yeah, I did. Why would you state something like tha rt I just didn't like the way he I can't determine what this man was looking. was thinking, but -. And he know, saying, you ask him a question, if it’s a is] yes or a no question, he would normally just give you a thumbs up or whatever, and stuff, like, pretty much just not want to be bothered with you, for the most part. Well, it was -. Wasn’t it not true that he was kind of the priority for the whole SHU? Was this sign up in the SHU, saying that, “Mandatory rounds must be conducted every 30 minutes on Epstein, as per God.” Yeah. That was in the So, do you remember seeing that? EFTA00062339

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oo 1 a: I do remember seeing that. 2 Where it was tually posted or whatever, I 3 don't know WwW : And then, I looked at the g u know, he had a look on 22 his face. I'm, like, and then, that -. And something might be up? EFTA00062340

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Nh Ww ww I'm, like, You know? you you know, rich nonchalantly or usually opinion. a: I didn't aid, “Watch this “Make wu EFTA00062341

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Ww Ww wi oO a: Yeah. I didn't give them no that he might hurt himself or that? a: I didn't know, but I j that it was the best thing to just keep an eye ‘re watching him. time, or individually? time. EFTA00062342

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Ne] WwW co Ww would was, like, y a : And right out the door. he want something. can you initial EFTA00062343

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1 and date the top of them? It’s not to test 2 what’s on the documents, it’s more to -- 6 a : You saw it. Thes documents we showed you. om wv ini oO co : And you want me to sign and 0 a : Initial and date. Today is 2 a : And you said it ot) i) I 4 a o n fw 3 fn] rt te I 5S Q Hh oO KR rt i) 6 keep, just in case we go back and refer to it. 9 before he left, he went back to guards Noel and 20 a. and, ‘Make sure you wat him,” word. EFTA00062344

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7 seemed normal and he was 2) wo it’s an opinion of mine. I can't tell WwW report is accurate. 7 mi rounds, and when asked about the fee} wo do you mean by at that point in us in there. Yo So, | is working overtime. So . He’s doing his wu n want u , me time. EFTA00062345

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ow oO ~—] wo 10 12 13 14 So, and then, you got dudes over here acting like they want to commit suicide. So now, as you’ re doing rounds, and everything is going on, you talk to one inmate, now this inmate has a problem. You may forget sometimes to go up there and just write it, you know, write it in or whatever. So, sometimes they might be, like, shit, fuck, I forgot. And then, they’1ll go back or whatever. I'm not saying, but that’s just, you know, normal or whatever, like, oh, man, I forgot. And you just go write in it. That’s just normal, how they do it. That’s why I hate these papers. I rather just do it on the computer because you can't miss. ae : You have questions on that? ee : But there’s still some more, right? a : Yeah. “When told that there is a video of the SHU area, i stated that he would be surprised to see video of the rounds not being conducted.” Mm-hmm. When asked about -. Because they were on their feet all day. EFTA00062346

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oo wo co wo ine] uw wi uw went in and they did the rounds? a: Yeah. I’ve seen it. Because as I'm doing my paperwork and talking to ying that they inmates and stuff like that, they were moving the whole time. I, you know, like, if I remember correctly, I barely saw them sit down. a : So, you saw them moving. Did you actually see them do the rounds, or you saw them move? ae: I saw them going in and out of tiers or whatever, because | -. I know | had a blue bin, at one point in time, he was going from tier to tier, doing something. And I think Noel had the key. You know, but it was a lot of movement that da So, I guess that’s the best way to put it. a : So, you saw movement, but you don’t -. You didn't actually see (Indiscernible *00:34:18)? a: They had to go down the range, but I didn't, like -. Every ingle time, at every 30-minute mark -- EFTA00062347

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Ww Ww Just finish the thing, did what not clearly remember who ¥Y, or what, if an the round sheets, you’re saying that saw Noel? Mm-hmm. Is that Noel’s on - watch? 56 EFTA00062348

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co Ww this And was this be is J- EFTA00062349

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Ww Ww fee} if you ? Unle night, but I Bec oO 1) cr b- oO KK fn about thr x | ra) oO H right? The ere th this is after -- ie) H EFTA00062350

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wi Ve} 2 ee : On August 9th and 10th -- WwW K i) fu a forms wer 2) I belie On the officer’s desk? 9 I believe : 0 are t forms s 1 to be 2 : When initially I was trained, 3 desk. As time went on, them on the tiers. -, the instructi 6 that has changed so much, like, you know, one - fee} wo le EFTA00062351

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wo WwW wo 23 do a round or whatever, u go and do a whole round, when you get to the end of the range, is right there the clipboard. sign it, and finish the round, and a : -- doing their rounds. Okay. And how many people are needed to conduct is needed to ue] ) i] a) oO 5 a : Not two people? you know, like, in per policy, or When you do a ns the grill, down. Is that what you you know, a count, one =} ue] 30n EFTA00062352

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wo wo Nh N iw N WwW goes down, comes out, and goes down and comes out. one we me w ina a : Not the way that’s per - I'm going to be per practice. And is that’s what they do? Okay. y’re doing up there. iJ since this date? date, though, how to count, haven't been in the I don't know you haven't been i conduct a round? were informed by only thing you count not correct? ri) ct i} rt fm) i ct ~ uo that even what 5 after that SHU in months. , when you were, they never went over, EFTA00062353

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5 5 3 uring a rd of rememb - after co I don’t reé mk having that O « one. 1 : So, your und g is 20 were on This 9) tls on i] Q wu t wn 1) | | know, EFTA00062354

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Nh Nh No ine] N WwW wo 7) WwW wo WwW oO Wo understanding, filling out the count, is she filling it out on behalf of - so, in this case, it was Noel - is in the SHU, or is she only saying that she conducted the round? a: I'm going to assume that she was filling it working. Like, so, and | did a round, she just filled it out, hat case. I learned my lesson from that, 3 ct n is) Hi only signed when I did it. that point forward, corre a : Hell no. I knew that, learned filling i ae: I'm going to assume, maybe. a : But I don't know what her EFTA00062355

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Ne] WwW Ne] WwW wo detail. for a fact, me wasn’t the one to do every -- believe all those rounds were ae: I believe, I believe that all e ht. conducted? definitely EFTA00062356

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Nh Ww Ww of them, but not the see why. Yeah. And then, same thing. t’s just filled. possibility that’s } EFTA00062357

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Ww Ww filled out, fill them? though? would from. from your king at the way that in general they fill them out, they don’t now. did the 66 EFTA00062358

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oo wo wo ~] Oo a: At the time, usually, I stopped messing with thi 3) after my first incident, and dealing with this round sheet. So, if I do a round, I fill it out. If I wasn’t the one that did it, I don’t sign it. ee : Yeah, yeah. So, what I'm talking about, from August, basically 10th, from the time he was found, previous to that, would you pre-populate round sheets? a: No, I didn't pre-populate. a : Because I learned something before that time, to -- ee : Oh, what did you learn before? a : Because that was a problem, with people doing that before, and nobody wanting to sign round sheets, for what reason or whatever. So, I was, like, okay, if I did n it; if I didn't do it, not sign it. wasn’t specifically on that round sheet because you’re, like, I'm not signing it, and getting EFTA00062359

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oo wo wo jammed up for it? a: If I'm not getting jammed up, if I did it, I sign it; if I didn't do it, and you did it, because I won't sign for anybody else. signing for everybody else, but you wouldn’t I gotcha. So, she was sign for everybody else. didn't touch t I didn't even -. I S paper at all that night. that, would you have touched the papers? would have done rounds. Previous to that, I probably But I wouldn’t have pre-populated the whole thing, like that. Would you ever pre- populate. I don’t think I pre- I don’t remember a time that I did pre-populate a thing or whatever. Now, what I will say, because I know it’s common or whatever, in the beginning, I probably had something pre-prepped for the count, and that messed up or whatever. oO) o EFTA00062360

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io Not a round. Ne] I pre-prepped the count slip WwW SO, you pre- 5 ot the round 6 7 a : I didn't do this. is) s) So 2 So, enough. 6 WN: kay. And when you said you 21 was pre-prepped? -prepped it so much going on, coming in, and Y, count EFTA00062361

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N N Nh Nh wo wo ho WwW uw or whatever you -. I wrote it out. I don’t remember if I put a number in there or not yet, or whatever. And then, the count was supposed to take place. So, I pre-wrote it or what And then, we just kept working. But there was So. a lot going on that day. Ee : Perfect. So, going to that paragraph, and then -- a : “When asked about the count number in the SHU, for the -. too. Don’t -. a : Yeah. “When asked about the count number in h the paragraph, for the date, and the number matching the MCC master number, || stated, ‘This would be a mistake on my part.’ just used the numbers off the and that there was probably signing off, down in having the count cleared.” , was this what you’re Hh ie] erring to? ~l =] EFTA00062362

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1 EE: e-hmn. : All right. Ne] up and to work in you’ re going to do the job with i) K Oo oc K WwW So, going to finda a way, wo EFTA00062363

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oo wo ow fon) o ine) Oo wo ine] ine] uw ~l No have been during this interview, then -- a: Like, because I don’t think had access to the El at that time. I think I had -. It’s another roster that we have in the SHU. Like, not a running board. What is the damn thing? I ain’t been in there in a while. SHU located. We have a SHU locater. And in that or whatever, when people move, you change it on that paper or whatever. Like, now - if you’ve been up there - there’s a board up there now. a: You know? So, when you - on that locater or whatever, that’s probably what used because I don’t believe I had access to this at that time. a : All right. So, you probably -- WN: Because I wasn’t working control at that time. used the SHU locator, and the amount of inmates sted on the SHU locater, to fill out the 4:00 p.m. count sheet? EFTA00062364

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~l Wo like, when 2 you’re 3 shift, 4 for the most part. You know what I'm saying? 5 You can't really screw 7 a : So, I was, like, okay. Boom. 8 And I - but like I said - I don’t remember wo number in there or whatever, but if I QO did, I did. That’s my mistake. I own that. 1 Ee : But you do remember that 2 you pre-populated it, though? 3 a: I do remember : 5 a : Like, I know I wrote my name, 8 a : Let’s take a look. I'm 9 El. 20 Mm-hmm. 21 And the count 22 Is 4:00 p.m. count 23 Mm-hmm. 24 Can you - s the El on EFTA00062365

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Ww fee} CV, at the count slip that y Just highlight it, so that we can -. All right. So, ZA. That’s the handwriting? like mine. didn't put the -. I EFTA00062366

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wo WwW number in here. I time, know I put the date and the and then, I signed down here. Does was that number look don’t recall doing Do you know if Because, like, I All right. We going to do that. And ripping and running they did. So. All right. But you EFTA00062367

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Ww 20 you that gned it. go people are neé EFTA00062368

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WwW accurate? did Now, off no ao on i] Le you it, should know if find out accurate EFTA00062369

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Ne] WwW 8 H Okay I 1g to Ow you WwW that is. 5 a : He was an inmate in the SHU. 8 You don’t have to ask. 24 a : “On August 9th, 2019, at 1:40 p.m., I, EFTA00062370

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 719 assigned as a Special Housing Unit officer, I proceeded to enter the Nine South visiting room. As I walked towards the door, I observed through the visiting room door, inmate Fernandez, register number 86824-054, attempt to grab an unknown item from his visitor. Once inmate Fernandez reached to grab the item, I called the door, and called for a lieutenant. Once I was able to enter the visiting room, I gave inmate Fernandez a direct order to walk the visiting room, walk off the visiting room, to conduct a visual search. Inmate Fernandez complied, and a visual search was conducted. The operations lieutenant was contacted, and inmate Fernandez was removed from the unit.” a : Mm-hmm. ee : Now, this is the lieutenant logs for that day. This is for August 9th. This is day watch. ee: Mm-hmm. a : The lieutenant log states, “Inmate Fernandez, 86824054, on dry cell with staff watch in R&D.” If you look down here, 3:15 p.m., inmate Fernandez was placed on dry cell. EFTA00062371

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co 1 | e-hmm. ss And wait, the time for this one was -? Ne] WwW states there. If you noti N Fy wn K ) =I fe) 0] Q 2 was corrected. Inmate Fernande from the SHU at 3:15 p.m., and was never WwW t of the Show him the quarterly 21 the midnight lieutenant, Re. came ae: Mm-hmm. EFTA00062372

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Ww co fee} a: A discrepancy. a : -- 14:33. And he wu 3 was a : Now, if you -. Well, was out of the SHU. Now, the day st hecked ke EFTA00062373

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wo iS) 74 No. Sorry, I didn't hear what No. All right. So, do cnow now that the count was not conducted? Yes Can you initial tt are the ones we showe EFTA00062374

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wo now now, a though -- Mm-hmm. EFTA00062375

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Ww Ww ee : Good. Thank you. cell mate, to which | a: Read that again. stions about Epstein, and specifically, if cell mate, to which | D EFTA00062376

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Nh No N N WwW wo WwW wo Ww a: Yeah. I didn't get that. Okay. I thon you said I said that Epstein didn't need -- is) -- an inmate. Yeah. I'm, like, nah, that -. I didn't have a -. I don’t remember having a conversation with fe cell rt about him telling me that tein needed a mate No. cell mate? a : He had a cell mate. a : So, why was he supposed to have a cell mate? a : Well, no, I'm saying he had a cell mate. It was the little, short dude. That was his cell mate. I think his cell a : How do you know the cell mate Oh, just word of mouth, I'm trying to remember what co uw EFTA00062377

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wo co wo N Nh N rs la Nh ine] uw oa i=) happened because, like, because I remember, when I put him in the cell, I was, like, where the hell is your fucking cell mate at? you put Epstein back from the shower, you mean? ee : You asked him where his - a : I asked where, you know, where your cellee? Or whatever. So, he s if) id, wu like, he got released. So, I don’t -. Like, I don't know if he actually did get released or not, or but that was the question, like, but we don’t have anybody else to put him with. I don’t remember who I spoke to that night or whatever. But I asked that question, like, there’s no cell mate in there with this guy. ee : So, you asked someone? WN: ts asked someone, but who it was, I don't remember who it was. lieutenant? a: It would have been a lieutenant. But my question -. But, like, EFTA00062378

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fos) ~] 1 with that, he’s su cel yposed to have. But you No can't put him with anybody. WwW oO o g rt Oo eS =] 2) = ' | uw i} i} oO } = (D i= rt ] 6 fw o rt 8 tell me who they want me to put in there with somebody has to 9 e if you tell me to put somebody in 0 11 if you 2 put him in at, you said, 9:30 Correct? Was 3 that when you’re talking about? 4 a: Yeah. When I - yeah - after 5 the shower. After he had his little phone call 16 and I put him back or whatever. Yeah, I asked, like, does anybody want me to put him in there 8 with -. 20 you're talking on the phone. So, did you get wo 21 on the phone with someone? 22 a: Yeah. I got on the phone with 23 someone, and I, like, who it was at that time, 24 I don’t remember. 25 ae : So, this, can you check the EFTA00062379

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Ww Ww schedule -- back then, at 10 s that shift change. ae: The lieutenant shift changes. time it was. said back co oo EFTA00062380

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ss) ve] 1 Lieutenant would come back. So, if that I think it would h 8 a: -- well, I know this. I know 1 ae: -- I know I didn' rt i re) i) mw ja ct So, this is -- 43 a) a k H B .Q T didn't sp Sd oO wu ? 7 the 10th 8 So, it would aming - it would have 20 been either Fd or a . Now, what -- 9 p D 25 Po was the morning watch -- EFTA00062381

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2 have 3 nd possible was oO that, until 10:00 10:00 3 p.m. wo time do you think him out around EFTA00062382

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91 rh him. You took him out o No td is ct WwW ct J o ! | ught him over to oo ct J @ Qa oO hb be Mm-hmm. is) onwards, *00:56:29)? 7 ae: After the shower. 8 Ee : -- so, it was definitely 9 the phone call? 20 21 And that’s 22 (In cernible *00:56:43) -. so now, at that time, s locking ce you put him is no more moveme EFTA00062383

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Ne] WwW WwW recall that it said 3 wu rt o What Ee : You called. So, you you called the lieutenant tH) re) Fh fh b. 0 oO wu 3 re) a: Mm-hmm. Like, yeah, this -- : -- there’s no cell mate here. do you want me to do? EFTA00062384

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1 about it again. Ion r thought a brain to w. Now, I'm trying to ra Ww if it was 5 aman or a woman? 6 a: I believe it was aman. But I 8 was a man. 9 aman, but oor 1 if it was 2 aman, it would have had to been a. 3 a: It would h 5 a : Yeah. It would have been : And you know it wasn fe) w o i?) wu t mM i) | | wo enant is 24 up the phone, and I'm not a EFTA00062385

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oo wo co wo ine] uw necessarily have to be a lieutenant in the lieutenant’s office. a: Not all the time, because things happen. Sometimes the lieutenant may call you, hey, I to go to this unit, do X, Y, and Z. Now they’re on the phone or whatever. Grab that phone for me real quick. It happens, but you know, you just relay the messages and what have you. Okay. All right. the internal? a: It could be. Is it? I don't know. But I'm just saying, I know that I asked that question. Who I did ask that question to, I don’t know at this time. I don’t remember. what questions you asked and what response were you given. ae: Yeah. I know I said, hey, this dude ain’t got no cellee. I did say that. his dude ain’t no cellee or whatever. And t Q 12] rt after that, what actual response I got, I don’t EFTA00062386

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Ww ee : This would have it have been went up and a : That would have Ee : -- next round? would have D oO oO 0 ae: -- that would have been en I noticed it, the phone I check on him EFTA00062387

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Ne] WwW WwW the phone call, do ae: Probably, but I really don’t remember because I'm, like, frustrated, all right, I got that to do, and then, Noel and | tt mate? ay. t he doesn't that he EFTA00062388

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wo 1 was required to have a cell mate? a: Required. I don't know if knew that he was required to h N WwW 4 mate. That, I don't know. 5 HE: Bt everybody that comes 6 off -. He was in suicide watch, previously. 7 Correct? 8 a: Right. ee : And every inmate that 0 comes off of suicide watch -- 11 WN: Suicide watch. Should have a 7) 2 cell mate. Ee : So, based upon that, they 4 knew he was required to have a cell mate. Hl D wo WwW + a K o fw om o wu n 0) QQ 2) nal rh Oo rh rt a fu ct ot + Oo be 8 Ee : Okay. And was that a on that you had wi wo ct a anyone in there, 20 that day, about, hey, where is his cell mate? 21 WS: ts think we did ask th 22 question amongst ourselves, too, like, this wu dude is supposed to have a cell mate. I think 24 we did. EFTA00062389

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Shower? Ne] WwW 7 Ee : So, you think at that cell mate right now? EFTA00062390

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wo wo wo O a: Yeah. So, that’s definitely the di - That would have 107) 0 c Oo] n BP o =) ct S i] rt happened after I took him out of the shower and put him in his cell, and realized there was no cell mate in there. That would have been the di ion afterwards. is] 7) cus Ee : And you do remember talking with both | and Noel, saying he doesn't have a cell mate? a: Yup. Briefly, though. The wasn’t, like, a long, drawn-out -. a : Sure. Do you remember what their responses were? a: I think it was just something, like, yeah, we’re just telling each other KH oO what’s going on. And continue business. Ee : Was there anything talked about, like, where is he? a : Yeah, and that’s when we found out, like, this guy must be released or whatever. So, there was a conversation about A that. But who actually said, oh, this dude got if released, or whatever, I don’t remember. a : Everything was moving if) oO Hh fw fi ia EFTA00062391

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wo wo 100 a: Probably was, but I know I made a phone call to someone, like, hey, what do you want me to do with this guy? He ain’t got no cellee. I know I made a phone call to someone. Who it was, at this point, I don't remember. a : I wish they would have asked me tha ct question earlier because I probably would have remembered then. ee : Right. So, and that’s, like, under oath, this is, like, if you were on the stand, literally in front of a judge -- a: I notified someone. Who it if we checked the, like, the lines and the recordings, we’ll EFTA00062392

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N WwW wo WwW fee} wo on 0) able to find -- a: You should be able to find - And then, again, that would be, like, oO nalty and wu wu Pp perjury of law, like, you know -- because we’re federal agents and you’re under : So, you’re positive about nd wu that statement, that you called someone notified them around 9:30 at night? a: I believe so. But if -. Because I spoke to people about this. I know I spoke to people about this. i} 0 Lai @ u. = if ct a i?) p- 5 Q ct Oo ro a & ct = ue] al o K w second, and let you think about who did he C i. on speak with and what conversations were had. was stated? Ee : From the beginning of 101 EFTA00062393

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1 that day. So, here, I'm going to show y document, and this is - again - that Ww And do you know that? co well, yeah. It’s a-. WwW Rs { J o kK o bh m t 1) Oo 2 re) 4 6 ee : Which shows that he was EFTA00062394

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Ne N No i S) No WwW wo WwW wo WwW : e-hon. ee : And then, is there -. Did we -? No, we didn't print out any of those from ted at 2:00 you remember that itution ae: I don’t. I remember finding out that Reyes was gone when I put Epstein ba ? k c when I remember that he c 3 a B U 9] i) b c 4 a wu an 03) a : I mean, that’s when I realiz that he was gone because I'm, like, there’s to be two people in here ee : So, prior to that time, you didn't know, at all, that Reyes was gone? He’s giving me documents to show you what happened to him. , this is from the Marshal Service. I don’t EFTA00062395

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Ne] WwW WwW ed this you would have receiv schedule. oO Ph Ee : -- which was going around Ee : This would have EFTA00062396

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= a uw 1 Ee : So, based upon this, they 2 would have generated what’s called, I thi wu 3 call out list. Do you know that? 4 a: I know what a call out list 6 ee : And then, we’re of the understanding, based upon this information, 8 next to Reyes name would have been WAB. Do you wo know what that means? 11 Ee : What does that mean? 2 a : Like, I mean, offhand, I don't 3 know what the actual acronym means, but it does 4 mean that somebody is getting removed from the they’re being released, sent 8 would have -. It means, “With All Belongings.” 9 And it means that they take all their stuff 20 because th e leaving N c 5 i} a 5 =] 22 Ee : Do you remember, that 23 date, seeing that call out list? Would that be 24 maintained in the SHU for the (Indiscernible 25 *01:05:06)? EFTA00062397

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wo wo a: I don’t remember seeing that call out list. I do not. ee : And in general, would the call out list be maintained in the a: No. The call out list i £ basically before R&D leaves for the night. U, though? fa They print out the call out sheets for the next day, and over the course of the morning shift, internal, when they give out the daily rosters, will give out the call out sheets to every unit. a: For the following day. For the next morning. I: 8c then, is that call out list, though, like, for instance, the call out list of the SHU, was that maintained in the SHU at all, when they (Indiscernible WN: cab.) Once you have it in the SHU or whatever, usually, they’ll have it on the desk with the rest of the paperwork. So, you know what you're looking at. If you’ve got to get somebody ready. EFTA00062398

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wo wo ee : -- so, is that something that they keep in the SHU all day long? a: Yeah. Once you receive it. All for the morning shift, because usually, morning shift, depending on your internal, you might get that paperwork probably about 3:00 or something. You know, after you - as you’re conducting counts. So, you conduct counts, and ct oO they come through and they hand you your roster for the day. The call out sheets, the separate fi) ros ters. Ee : And is that maintained, t EE: | -- throughout the day’ So, that, like -- a : It’s supposed to be. ee : -- for instance -. Okay. So, if somebody goes to court, you know, on A that list, it says this guy is court, it to this g is WAB, it says, you know, so that you know where inmates are? a : Well, R&D will have the -. It will be a court roster for R&D. And it’s EFTA00062399

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Ww Ww rt that all be it would. nt being is if, y, oh, s at court, he’s not back all of that w call out list on August 9, 2019? 108 EFTA00062400

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wo wo 20 N ras N Nh N a Nh Nh uw a: Everybody waves differently. So, I may put my paperwork on the clipboard. Somebody else may like to have three stacks of paper over here. saying is that you did know, on August 9th, that Reyes was gone, and he was Epstein’s cell mate, and Epstein was without a cell mate. But you’re saying you didn't know it until 9:30 p.m.? ae: Yeah. a : And at that point, you did call someone, in the lieutenant’s office? a: Yeah. ee : So, you definitely know it was the lieutenant’s office -- ae: I know. Ee : -- that you called? a: I called someone. So, like, let me rephrase and put it like this. That I noticed it. I had discussions with, you know, (Indiscernible *01:07:29), I said something about it to them, and I called someone. Who I spoke to, I do not remember. But I know I called someone. And it had to be somebody EFTA00062401

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Ww 4 was a man? You t think it was a: 8 male. I think it was a man. But being that it 9 long ago, I can't remember exactly what call -- know -- 3 Ee : I understand. Yeah. I J | | 0) kK o = O he i) ” kK fa b "7 rt iu) i 20 Eee : And so -. 21 a: And honestly, I 22 was over. So, I was, like -- EFTA00062402

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ow oO wo wo 111 reason why we’re reading this to you is to, one) make sure that you -- a: That it’s accurate. also to refresh your memory. This is what you stated to these people, is that accurate, and - again - to fill in some of these blanks. Now, we have a memo that = wu n drafted on August 12th, 2019. Let’s see if it was - it says United n States government, Federal Bureau of Prisons memo. And it says, past information from Special Housing Unit. It says, “On Friday, August 9th, 2019, at approximately 1:50 p.m., I, SOS | passed on to oncoming staff member, Officer a. and present staff, SOS | and Officer a. that inmate Reyes was going WAB, and possibly may return, also that inmate Epstein will be needing a cell mate upon arrival from his attorney visit.” Do you know if -? a: I don’t remember having that conversation with a . Ee : Do you remember that that conversation had, or do you believe th i) rt oa 0) i) wu cr p o lying to us? If he swore under oath th EFTA00062403

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Nh No wo Ne] WwW fee} wo memo. = he ask | about that 1l him speaking to rece I do not remember havi him at all. you is going to need a new information onto you That he also did. Do did, you might want one because I do no me about this one. him. All right. you know, | | was standing there, to oO , with I n specifically to a. call, cell mate. 112 EFTA00062404

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113 1 recall that conversation? I don + recall that 4 Ee : Now, what is your opini that 9 ssibly may 0 omeone is 1 not return? 4 understanding was, if someone was W. fee} = 1) w Q , with that -- EFTA00062405

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ow oO ~—] wo 10 12 13 14 stuff is packed up or whatever, and then, something happens, and then, they can't go -. They can't leave. Like, but that’s usually if they’re going to another institution or something. Now, if this dude actually got released or whatever, I don’t see why - any reason. Unless the judge put a hold on him. ee : Well, he didn't get released. Like I showed you. He got transferred. ae: Yeah. So, yeah. So, I don’t see, you know, like, unless the judge miraculously put a hold on you or something like that, I don't know why he said possibly. ee : So, I guess my question on that would be, then, if he’s at least by 8:38 a.m., WAB, gone from the SHU, should someone have -- Yes. -- replaced him beforehand? : Yes. Replaced him and, yeah, somebody should have -. Like, because during the day shift or whatever, this dude leaves, he goes to WAB or whatever, and you know that it’s 114 EFTA00062406

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wo wo Epstein is in the cell, because I'm assuming with how it happened, I'm assuming he goes WAB, mn 07) Epstein goes to a legal visit, now your day is going on and everything like that. And it’s m @ just escaped everybody. a : That’s what I'm thinking happened. But yeah, he should have been 0) replaced during that shift. ae: But if you don’t have the numbers, that’s another question, that I’1l if] ask. If you don’t have the numbers in the SHU, if you have, like, an odd number, and you can't put anybody with him. What are you going to Epstein’s cell mates were all vetted at the highest level? you knew that Epstein was required to have a cell mate, could have you just placed a cell mate with him? a : No. I don’t have that EFTA00062407

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wo wo 20 N c N nN N a Nh Nh uw authority to do that. Because if I was to -- a: -- if I was to make that -hing happened to him, now So, who should have placed him with a cell mate? That’s place Epstein with a new cell mate. It would have been one of us to uel srobably put the inmate in that cell. But that determination would either come from the operations lieutenant, the SHU lieutenant, or the captain. GN: Or anybody ab a : But that’s where the decision would come from. They'll probably just tell me, like, hey, execute. based upon the information that we have, with him going WAB, should the activities, ops, or a captain have been notified, and those people should have ensured that Epstein was -? 116 EFTA00062408

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wo wo 3) 117 7] K @ is] ie) ) 0 ause if - like, all right, after all the stuff that we’ve seen here - if I was to, like, let’s just say I was to put somebody in that cell, and something the wrong decision, and then, the next question is going to be, well, a : So, I would not put somebody in there without somebody giving me the green light to do so. think so. All right. So -- a : For the day shift. OIc. If him, the activit lieutenant, and the ops lieutenant, all for that day shift are saying, well, we didn't know if Reyes was going to come back or not, so we thought it was premature to place a new cell mate in there with him. Is that a legit excuse, do you think, or a reason, if the person is listed with WAB next to their name? EFTA00062409

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wo wo a: Depending on how they looking at it, like, because - like I said before - if , like, maybe the bus t cancelled and then, If you’re thinking about it that way, then yes. But if he was gone at 8:00 something in the morning, then he ain’t never coming back. ee : At 2:00 p.m., he’s still not back, wouldn’t they know by then if that was -- a: That’s what I -- Ee : -- truly WAB? a: -- that’s what I would think. But you do not Ee : So, you believe, the first time that you - you did know, on August 9th - but you believe the first time that you at 9:30 p.m. a: That’s the first time I think I knew, because it was too much running around. I don't not remember this conversation at all. FY : 0} ay. And that’s EFTA00062410

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wo wo 119 because, once you got there, you were just running? a: I was running, hopping and popping the whole time. a: Pretty much. I'm sweating. Everything. a : But we were all tired that day a : I know you didn't know until 9:30 p.m. When do you think would have been the first time you should have caught up to the fact that Reyes was not there? a : I was doing rounds, because in my mind, because I'm thinking about it, like, like how Epstein is the priority. So, if I'm working out ranges, and I'm talking to inmates here and there, and I had two other inmates on that tier where Epstein was, that wanted to play the suicide game, you know, as I walked through there, or whatever, I know this is , Epstein’s cell. I know Epstein is not here. Even when you look in there, you just keep EFTA00062411

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 going. And then, you know, you just keep going or whatever. So, like, it should have dawned on me then, but I'm thinking about this guy over here, that may have, you know, that had the noose around him, and he wants to play that game. And then, you got another inmate on another tier, doing some other crazy nonsense. There was just a lot of moving pieces that day. So, even in my movement around or whatever, like, it missed - it escaped it - it missed me. ee: Yeah. And that was what I was going to go to, after that, is the fact that, would this have been the only - this mandatory rounds must be conducted every 30 minutes on Epstein, as per God - would that have been the only orange card that was up there? Saying to make sure that Epstein is your priority in the SHU right now? a: It shouldn't have been. Like, I don’t remember if there was anything on his door, or anything like that, or whatever. But I remember that. That, you know, that was per God, obviously, that’s a joke. MS: ve2h, yeah, yeah. a : But I do remember, it was EFTA00062412

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wo o wo ine) oO ine] something else on a wall, at some point in time, about, like, yeah, make sure you watch this guy. So, I don’t remember if it was a memo or something, but it was something else. But I definitely remember that one. If I'm not mistaken, there was more than one copy of that thing. ee : Okay. So, but what I'm asking, was there anybody, any other inmate names, such as this, or was inmate your priority when you were in the SHU? : No. No. I don’t remember any of the inmates’ name. I just remember that. i if) n So, thi the one guy that’s up on the desk, on the officer’s station, saying, making sure you’re checking on ee : -- on Epstein. So, that was what I was going to get at. If these rounds were actually conducted on L-tier, through that whole time, that that cell i 7] empty -- Ee : -- how did people not EFTA00062413

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De) B Q 7 TT this right t) 7 o H Oo | | 4 Ee : And I'm not talking about night watch -- wo So, day watch. Like, 2 obviously, through here, they got rid of him. 3 And, like, that, there should have been 4 something done there. 16 claiming, he’s the guy who was apparently, you 7 know, | is apparently signing this, I believe, for all these. He’s claiming, yeah, I fee} wo passed on the information, he’s gone, he’s 3) 20 going to need a new cell mate, if he, in 2 doesn't come back. swearing under oath that, and he wrote a memo, ry) well. And as EFTA00062414

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WwW wo on now I well a memo, , that’s what we’re talking the question working - so, (Indiscernible four. It’ i] EFTA00062415

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N N Nh Nh wo wo i) WwW uw to 9:30, if you’re ying you noticed at 9:30, that that cell was empty? If this guy is your number one priority. looking for I was just, like, my mind, and it was him. a: And I knew he was at a legal - So, and I a round on came back. But if rounds are being conducted in entire SHU -- Mm-hmm. notice, hey, it’s claiming that one, two, three, four, you know, however many there are there, throughout the day, you’re going down everything, how did someone not notice that cell was empty: you're absolutely does that mean that these rounds weren’t conducted? EFTA00062416

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1 a: I'm not going to say that b N o I know those people went down, down WwW range, u know, but what I'm going to 4 like, if that dude was gone, and you know, the 5 number one priority is Epstein, and you’re just 6 doing rounds because you know that you’re going 7 to hav You know wh to count anyway. t I'm sayin wo on the count, that’ wo = Za o 5 you will catch that. WwW count wasn’t 8 Ee : So, the 4:00 p.m. count wasn’t conducted. And ae: Yeah. 21 ee : -- you have reason to 0:00 p.m. count wasn’t conducted, wo oO the Nor the 3:00 a.m. 24 5:00 a.m. So, none of those counts were EFTA00062417

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126 No H =a rm rt you left before 10:00 p.m. WwW 4 you we d believe it would 5 durin rour 6 it would caught more so during the counts, and with the 8 rounds, with a million 9 thine little bit harder. 0 2 the counts, the more 3 there’s two inmates where do believe you EFTA00062418

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127 Ne] WwW wo 1 Ee : What about, are you cjury of law, I 2 confident under penalty and ue} alled the lieutenant’s office and notified WwW 0 Ep did not 6 but who was on the other end of that phone -- 21 lieutenant’s office, that’s normally what I would do. EFTA00062419

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ow oO oo wo wo didn't call the lieutenant’s office - who would it be that you would have called? a: It might have been a unit Manager, or somebody. If anybody was still in the building at the time. But I called somebody. I spoke to someone, higher than me, that could make a decision about this situation. ee : All right. So, that was going to be my next question. Are you sure, not only did you call, but you actually spoke with someone? a: Yes. I spoke with someone. Who it was, at this point, I don't remember. ee : Okay. So, someone. You did make that notification, and you’re saying someone else (Indiscernible *01:20:44). a : I made that notification, yes. ee : And you did - and you’re ve you informed J and Noel? a: Yeah. Because we were all talking. Like, it was, like, yeah. This dude posit is (Indiscernible *01:20:54). Like, it was a conversation. A brief conversation, but a conversation nonetheless. EFTA00062420

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ow oO wo wo 129 Ee : And you had the three of you had it? a: Yeah. Like, it was, like, you know, I said something, he said something, she said something. And then, it’s back to business because it doesn't stop just because - You’ve got to kind of figure things out, as you move. So -. ee : Okay. What do you got on that? a : When we initially asked you the question about Epstein and his cell mate, you said that Epstein must have a cell mate. Right? To that effect. You knew that Epstein needed a cell mate. a : Hmm, and I knew, and when I said that, I mean, I knew that he had one before. I knew he had one before. Because that’s why I was, like, oh, like, where did this guy go? a : Other than the fact that he came off psych observation, was there any other reason why you felt that Epstein needed a cell mate? EFTA00062421

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ow oO ~—] 10 11 12 13 14 17 18 19 130 a : Did anyone instruct you? Any instructions come down? a: The instructions started coming down about him needing a cell mate after his first so-called suicide attempt or whatever, and that’s when they started picking, and that’s when, you know, like, how - well, what’s the other guy’s name, Tartaglione? And that’s why we, as officers, can't determine who we’re going to put in there with this guy. You know, like, because if I -. Like, let’s say I ought to put somebody else in there with him or whatever, and because Epstein is saying that Tartaglione attacked him, and this, and that, and the third. That would fall on me. You know, you want a supervisor to make that determination. a : So, let’s talk about -- WN: -- chat. Were you there for that incident, when that happened, the first attempt of suicide? ae: I wasn’t there for that, no. a : Do you know what happened between Epstein and Tartaglione? EFTA00062422

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Ne] WwW WwW kill him, hang himself and or did point Tartaglio From who? coming down from Lieutenant || lieutenant? down. attacked onwards, Only from what I heard. I Have you heard t Jkay. Now, said from you instructions started coming The instructions start o the SHU lieutenant. I kn Ow He would come in. would -. So, who is Now? No, no. At that point. point in time, I think EFTA00062423

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1 find out right now. 2 ee : He was not working on -? e@ was not working that night, H t g that t 4 though. So, it came from Lieutenant wo K oO =] ct a Pp 5 an it came from Lieutenant a. 0 also 11 Yeah. Because I, like, I 2 didn't speak to || recently during that 3 timeframe, I don’t believe. I think, like, 4 because I think it was, like, I know one time 5 ,specifically, Lieutenant | was, like, by - 16 he specifically said - boss’s do, not that night, though. But, you know, he specifically, Bh 8 like, that’s on oO of the first people that was, wo like, was adamant about keep an eye on this 20 guy. This is why we put him in this cell. N c Well, what about the cell N Nh mate requirement? N a The cell mate requirement 24 thing. That was something that it was 25 conversations amongst other SHU crew members EFTA00062424

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ow oO oo wo wo from day, evening, morning shift, or whatever. Like -- a: -- we knew we couldn’t just make a decision. So, that was a thing, like, everybody was, like, yo, call the lieutenants, like, make -- a : Mm-hmm. a: -- like, have them tell you who to put in there with this person. a : When was this conversation? a : This is over the course of time. You know, a couple days. Because we, like, people get - people leave this institution, and people come back in. So, usually, you never really know. So, this is, like, you know, days leading, you know, days leading up to this or whatever. We just, like, idle conversations, that, amongst staff, that we have had. a : That Epstein needed a cellmate at all times. ae: Yeah. And then, like, you know, like, because I believe, at one point in time, he had a cell mate, somebody left, and EFTA00062425

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wo littl shift blah, blah, happened? versation , this i blah, blah, b us with? sually, he o during s, like, 0 1 DYS, lah. don’t recall if it don’t recall it. a questi aid are th EFTA00062426

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Ww a : But he was no him, I think he home, or if he ee : Yeah. The email. lieutenant -m., where he where you wrote that, the would call it the -- EFTA00062427

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Ww co Ww | was still in the institution a figure No? And he’s not listed Ee : And you know he w And what Was EFTA00062428

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Ne] WwW co Ww of wor email Like, let’s an email to a. right? Could it from outside the institution? Or does he have he have to be inside the a: Oh, no. You can EFTA00062429

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Ww = ioe) oo rt oO wu BOP email, outside of the MCC. But what he would he have access to his BOP email outside of the MCC? Would he have able to ah. ld YY has access to -. Oh. Not to my knowle i) I don’t know y. Yeah, no. EFTA00062430

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Ne] WwW Ne] WwW wo Anything we showed you. d . What is this is the -. a : Schedule report. That’s the that MCC -- went from Thank you, sir. we probably c red this, but just want to ask one more time. If that 4:00 count was done, would it have been p.m. caught that Reyes was not in the institution, and Epstein needed a have been caught that, 5 cell mat oO would h sn’t you know, that he wasn’t like, when you count, at living, breathing bodies, you know, don’t remember EFTA00062431

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co talking to inmates So, I probably v R You know? w nd I'm, like, he would about, hav Mm-hmm. -- round she Mm-hmm. t recall pre-filling remember bei t about Taught about it by who? That was when I was a daisy e€ EFTA00062432

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Ww Ww know what from multiple p EFTA00062433

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 don't know. ee : I don’t need - who have you heard about? - I don’t need dates or anything, but who have you heard about pre-filling the rounds and counts sheets? a: You know, some of the old school staff, like, you know, like, when, like, but these people don’t even work here anymore. You know, like, I mean, I don’t know these people. They don’t work here anymore. They, you know, like, they had a whole SHU crew. Like, there was a whole system of things that - they had it on lock. That was just how it worked. a : So, you said SHU -- a : So, I remember, as a rookie, I would go in there. And then, you know, they teach you things or whatever, and then, you know, like, I guess they’ve been working so long, you know, they know the short cuts that they do. So, I remember learning about it then or whatever. And then, I even got taught at one point, or whatever. I'm, like, okay. But I wasn’t working up there then. a : So, the names. I know you EFTA00062434

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No WwW SHU crew. So, the names. What fine. Any names you learned it from So, like, a 7 3 0) like, well, now, I know when I started, no more. named It’s a bunch of EFTA00062435

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Ne] WwW Ne] WwW wo | | wu 5 a ave you seen them pre-fill - = u heard or seen them - pre-fill round a : I’ve heard of it. But, you know, like, I haven't seen them do it, but I’ve heard of it or whatever. And I do remember who it was, ugh. I remember, at one point in time, somebody showed me, like, oh, is how you -. Teac! to do the round tna way. a : What did they teach you exactly a : Like, I start here. So, the start at 4:05, finish at a: That’s when I saw that, and ee : So, you think that’s -- ae : -- that’s how it was taug EFTA00062436

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145 Mm-hmm. Nh Ww 3 QO was a situation - Well, that’s 1 so I'm not even going to get into that. on the round co het fe) c 9 a: Now, the count sheets, on the 20 if, you know, you’re in a hur 21 out -- you put ito he don’t want to EFTA00062437

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Ne] WwW WwW But obviously, I learned a valuable lesson from So, I know on that one, that actually Have there been other situations -- a : -- where the counts haven't been done? that haven't been doing rounds or counts? a : In SHU or just in the prison neral? The SHU is what we i) ) ie] i] Q ; fu bh be het fu ial rt oO i] uM] be bh fe) ia t Pp io) ee : No. Let’s talk about - aware of not doing rounds and counts? EFTA00062438

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wo wo 20 N ras N Nh N a Nh Nh uw No. But they were all -. I do recall an incident where, I guess there was a bad count. No. There was two good counts. It was two good counts, and then, they figured out it was a bad count the next shift or whatever. So, basically, what people were doing, they would look in on the computer to see what the number was, fill out the paper, and send it down. I remember that happening a a : They looked on the computer for the number? a : How do you look -- a : -- on the computer? -- they, I guess, like, you know, somebody mus have had work control, and had El access, and just looked up the number -- Ee: x-hm. a: -- of what control would have on the El, then filled it out, and then said, here you go. And turned it in. And that went on for some time or whatever. So -. ae : When was this? EFTA00062439

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No S) wo WwW wo WwW I don’t even remember when it is. But I remember that was -. I remember was a thing because it was, like, me in trouble for ue] oO ie) ople were supposed to Fl fa td 0 5 the of How wo already said. a : No, he did, but I'm going to ask about the 10:00 p.m. and the midnight. How would they know to go I know you went off ? What number -? number two? Not and a midnight. EFTA00062440

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Ww WN: ith that -- just, like, when, I'm leaving at know numbers. EFTA00062441

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It’s itution down, you count, a 4 at 10:00. You count at 10:00, and at 5 point in time, you know, 0, you’re off or midnight comes around, your 7 relief comes in, or whatever the case. But in 8 this particular case, the only person that went a. Because Noel was still So, if Thomas was coming in, or wo home wa 0 here. whatever, yo, Noel was here the whole time. 2 She knows all the numbers. 4 a: He ain’t got to do nothing. she know that t 16 4:00 count cleared, the number that you called 7 in was good at the time -- \o | | o KR fu rt bh @ fu oH ct 20 it was good. nobo¢ N c else left, orc N nN N a So, they could just use Nh that number -- Nh uw EFTA00062442

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Ww Ww computer. a: Like, you know, you sitting on might. a : -- when you were workin 151 EFTA00062443

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1 you were working - h you heard about N oO mployees sleeping on the job? Rumors, but I never observed WwW 5 HN: Okay. when you were those 6 three of you guys in there, did you observe -- during the shift on August wo 2 would because we was running the whole time. Ee : There’s going to be a lot 4 of unnecessary stuff in there, but if you want H don't know how they WwW 5 to ask those. 16 WN: Okay. Well, how do you answer some of these questions, you said last fee} time you interacted with Epstein, something 9 triggered in your mind, right? And so, that’s 20 you told | and Noel -- Okay. Do you know if there was any threats i) ep an eye on him. made to Epstein? EFTA00062444

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wo wo Did you know why Epstein was in prison? feelings regarding why he was in prison? ahead. Did Epstein have -. Go You were going to say something. is what you did. My Like, feelings, what you did 9ersonal feelings don’t matter. It’s a job. You know what I'm saying? So, like, I do my best for something like that. That’s why I don’t personally like to read wy o is] wu c a7] o is) =] a o people’s paperwork. know, you can't un-know it. Mm-hmm. ae: So, but nah, I didn't have any feelings towards him or whatever. I'm, like, needs to go here, he needs to go -. There you go. what happened to Epstein on August 9th and 10th There you go. What is your understanding of My understanding of it was = wi Wo EFTA00062445

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Ne] WwW 4 hun No c gO 5 someone else taking Eps wo g happened t taking his own life? f 5 en a) int u cr wu 3 Q Bb 5 re} Ph n o him? -- that he hung himself. He Do you have any information suspicious activity about Nothing. do you know about taking Epstein’s life? take his own there, but I would Did Epstein act alone in EFTA00062446

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ow oO oo wo wo n’t wu a] a: I would assume so. Iw I didn't see anything, but -. with Epstein’s death? there. Did you have any involvement Ps 2 Epstein’s deat What would have prevented What actions could have been taken to prevent his death? that if a person wants to take their own life, I mean, personally, I feel they’re going to do it. You know? So, I do not know. if the C.0.s actually did the rounds and the Do you think them actually, counts, it could have helped? deterrent, but the truth of the matter is, if I think it could have been a somebody is actually attempting to do that, they’re going to do it. That’s not going to stop. And the only reason I say that is because of my mother’s (Indiscernible *01:40:12). If you want to do it, you’re going to do it. a cell, though, if he actually had a cell mate What about in a cell? In EFTA00062447

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ow oO wo wo in there. Do you think that that would have potentially helped to actually somebody else in there? a: Yes and no. I think it might have deterred him for a bit, but, you know? ee : He would have found a a: He would have found a way. If that’s really what you wanted to do, you would have found a way. But that’s an opinion. ee: At least in this specific circumstance, you think that, between the counts and the rounds, and then getting an actual cell mate in there for him, because he was required to have a cell mate, do you think that those things would have at least helped? ae: I think it would have helped. a : What is some of the systematic problems inside the MCC - and specifically, the SHU - that allowed for Epstein to die? ae: A lack of staff. Overworked taff. Not getting clear instructions on what n to do in certain instances; i.e., you know, he EFTA00062448

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uw fo) 10 11 12 13 14 17 18 19 doesn't have a cell mate, but there was no directive of who to put in there. Like I said, if you have an odd number, you don’t have a body to put there. Hmm. You can't just take an inmate from another house that didn't do anything, just because you trust him, and put him in there. : So, you’re saying there should have been a backup inmate? : There should have been a backup plan for that. You know, and it was -. To me, it was decisions made, on the part of the institution, that were wrong. And because they made these decisions, now those other two officers have to pay for it. You know, Epstein, as high-profile as he is, should not have been in SHU. He should have been in Ten South. get to make. Why do you say that? That’s not a decision that we Because he’s too high a profile. the world Look, after that thing hit the news, knew who he was. The world knew who El Chapo EFTA00062449

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1 was. El Chapo never touched a unit. He went N straight to Ten South. Why would you put 3 somebody that high-profile, you know, that 4 close to regular, every day inmates. ee: Now, if people are in Ten South, can they have attorney visits? ow oO oo So, they can still do wo ct fu ct wu cr ct 12) a] 5 o — ¢ c U fisit all day long -- 10 a: But they don’t -- 2 a : -- they could. But in Ten 3 South, the attorney goes up to Ten South. 4 There is a room where it’s a barrier between - 5 they can talk to each other, but it’s a glass 16 and stuff in there, anything that needs to get 0] 7 handed, you know, search i and then, you pas 8 it over. You could obviously can't read wo wu =) i o 12] QA a) U iy’s legal work, but you make sure that 20 there’s no contraband in there, when it has -. 21 And there’s another room in there with a slot 22 that they can, that the lawyer could do that, 23 but the lawyer has to show it to you first, and 24 then hand it to the inmate. ine] uw : Do you think that the EFTA00062450

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oo wo wo attorney visits had anything to do with the fact that he wasn’t placed in Ten South? a: I definitely think that’s a possibility. You hear lawyer, and they jump, too. a : Perfect example is - and this ystemic problems that are here - if an inmate says, I want to talk to my family, I want to -. For whatever reason, you know, and they get a call from the judge, the lawyer, anything of the sort. They’re going to, oh, you’ve got to give this inmate a phone call, even though this inmate just had his required phone call, and it’s not time for that phone call again. As soon as you hear lawyer or judge or whatever, they’re going to tell you to do that. WN: ven though he’s supposed to wait his time. You know, so, but that’s how -. I hope that answers your question. a : Fair enough. That’s enough. Ee : Just back to the call EFTA00062451

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wo wo = oO) =] ct Ss wu rt he oO u said that you made some time between 9:30 and 10:00. Would it have potentially been to the control center? It was definitely possible. Because i ything or whatever, like, because that is one of the places that we call, control, the lieutenant’s office, the unit team, and, you know, sometimes you might make a phone call, like, oh, no, this person ain’t here, try this person, try control center. So, it’s definitely p a : So, looking at the 9th, that roster, who would have been on between 9:30 and 10:00 -- ee : -- in control center -- HS: -- the 9th. Ee : -- or the lieutenant’s office? Who could have been some potential possibilities that you spoke with? a: Hmm. Now, I could possibly spoke to J. I could have - and honestly, enough - I could have definitely, possibly spoke to FY or a. too. But yeah. I wouldn’t have asked him. EFTA00062452

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Ww co Ww you nible *01:44:52), I'm a seven, me how to do 161 EFTA00062453

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oo wo wo = oO) No information when I'm trying to learn something. So, I might have asked him. ’ thinking back on, like, how, like you’re saying, this is such a higher profile thing, if) and this was s oO in the media, and everybody who knew who he was after this - thinking back to that, and thinking, like, oh, shit, I knew he didn't have a cell mate, I know I called somebody, that doesn't help jog your memory of what was said, or what was done, and the fact that you’re involved now, specifically, with central -- a: Yeah. And I'm -- ee : -- (Indiscernible *01:45:41). ae: -- and I'm trying to remember exactly who I spoke to. I really am. ee : Because I mean -- ae: Yeah. ee : -- wouldn’t you have thought of that, like, even, like, that day after, like, oh, man, good thing I called that person and told them? a : Yeah. And, like, the only EFTA00062454

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Ne] WwW 4 and trying 7 Ee : All right. And then, do 10:00 p.m. know, anything a All right. have - on the other m I had, like, the list of EFTA00062455

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Ne] WwW Ne] WwW wo a : nitial. Just initial this e, too. suicide watch; and the reasons why, if he was? a: Prematurely know if it’s premature. I'm Ee : Do you know if anybody had any influence on him being removed from suicide watch? a: That, I don't know. kay. » you don’t rneys, or jud wardens, or anything -- Ee: Yeah. I don’t get to be privy tampered with or manipulated? EFTA00062456

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= o wn you know anything igned cell on Ne] WwW 4 August 10th, 2019? 5 Not being in his assigned 6 because the 10** is when he 9 No 0 So, you don’t -. 1 Like, so, he was -. Because, 2 I mean, like, I worked that day, but I worked 5 are in the cells that 6 don't know if it was would I be that inmate \o Z bh b a cr 7 © Sentry. job is it to MMM: that the -. what EFTA00062457

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ow oO wo wo = oO nn a: That’s a collective. Really. You know, in the SHU, there’s supposed to be the And probably with a little help from C&A. On a regular housing unit, you get a new inmate, hey, C&A, I got this new inmate, here’s his numbers, and here’s the bed assignment, and C&A keys it in. In SHU, sually - because it’s supposed to be four people in there - the SHU OIC would key the inmate they’re -. So, if he arrives from suicide , when they arrive. watch on July 30th, 2019, and he’s placed in cell A -- reason, a few hours later, it’s determined he can't be in cell A, he’s got to be in cell B, and him and his roommate, Reyes, were moved over to cell B. Who’s responsible for making that change? a: For making it physically or on the computer? ee : In the computer. a : You, like, you, normally, you would want it to be the OIC. For this EFTA00062458

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Ne] WwW particular case, I would assume that a lieutenant would h en making sure -. Jth all the way to a cell that doesn't match up with what S$ good. ee : So, who, during that EFTA00062459

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how often is that audited, do you know? Ne] WwW Ph rm 5 oF don't know right of 6 sh av caught that one. : And does that -- 0 with the i) wu ‘oO ue] i Oo ue] ini pe fu ct o e] 0) bh ; 7) ie) 8 b o) tn rv) =] rt kK up to date? WwW 1) a w 5 w 1) fal oO 3 i) another these 4 questions or what but it’s very difficult do that with 8 everything that’s going on, because even during its) n J im H ct a a fu 3 Q o nothing stops moving. 21 shift, because thin slowed down, is they’re 22 supposed to 0) it, and I was EFTA00062460

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Nh N WwW 4 wo 7) WwW wo WwW taught how to do it. You know? SHU Yeah, but ultimately, y believe it was the lieutenant that should ible? have been respons Did we you know if cell searches were being conducted in the SHU in July and August of 2019? a: On my shift, no. On the day shift, that’s when they’ re conducted, because you have more can pull inmates out and actually On evening shift, you don’t have enough staff to do that. Per policy, in the SHU, do but being that and you can pull them - just o wo EFTA00062461

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 170 out like that, it’s impossible to do that. So, when you do your searches in SHU, you search kind of, like, the common areas, and, you know, things of that nature, during the day, you know, because inmates are going to recreation, medical, and all this, and things of that nature, or whatever. And so, and you have more people. So, it’s a lot easier to move people from one place, holding cell over here, search the cell, put them back. It’s a lot easier. When I'm on the evening shift, if, you know, if I'm doing social visits - social visits, well, that, too - social visits, or phone calls, or cell sanitation, meaning that, you know, inmates get the broom and sweeps out his cell, I hold the bag up to the slot, he throws his trash out, and then I'm onto the next one. You know, it’s -- ME: 02. ee: -- yeah. ee : So, are you aware that, at the time, in August 2019, though, it was a policy at least, maybe not practice, but a policy, that five cell searches were supposed to be being conducted during the evening watch? EFTA00062462

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Ww Ww watch, being pull these inmates out. nd the morning watch, 1 just conduct 171 EFTA00062463

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Ww Ww g done at r seen a cell No. I’ve ted on the evening shift. That’s all I i 4 | ke oO Cc .Q oO cr o C rt rt oO mw mn EFTA00062464

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N N Nh Nh No wo © i) WwW uw = ~l Wo a: Mm-hmm. ee : -- what it is that’s going to happen to people. So, I can't necessarily say this or that, how you stand, or how you don’t stand. We’re the fact finders. a: Mm-hmm. ee : You know, we, you know, we present information. We don’t make determinations. So, based upon, you know - and again, I think you’ve already provided all thi information in the past - it’s ust now, we needed to gain you meant from what you said -- the purpose of this. So, we can't really What we can say is that - again - you’re kind of, like, a small piece of this puzzle. a : Mm-hmm. My next question is, even though this happened so long ago, why wait ae: Because that’s not the Like, that’s an incident, yes, and it’s a big one, but working in here, things happen all the EFTA00062465

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N WwW wo WwW 8 wo No No No WwW 24 time. So -- ected to remember He: «= cotally understand. a: -- something from 2019, all the way to 2021, and since that timeframe, I’ve members. I’ve had to, you know, be a part of a use of force teams. Multiple things. And I got to go back to 2019 and try to remember ific details -- No, and that ae: -- do you know how difficult have been provided in being 174 EFTA00062466

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2) wo Ne] WwW fee} wo nd it’s also why So - you know, on , to make sure that ¥ re goin we things, like, why weren these questions aske weren’t, you kn i] like, all right, well, we’ll reading this, but what does I m an? he mean by that? You know o Mm-hmm. th all right, I said whatever it but it’s not clear at all with what you meant. Right. And so, that’s why we’re clari on n and it’s also part of the recorder. = ~l uw EFTA00062467

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2) wo Ne] WwW fee} wo 176 future of, like, well, now we can s MMM: -- and what was meant. no longer with us. So, that’s another reason lot of reasons w we’re doing it now, and we weren’t able to do I can disclose what there were reasons. And now, we’re trying to I don't know if you’ve but we’ve been in here talking to a lot 2ard. I ard EFTA00062468

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1 that somebody was here. Who it was, I don't 2 know. Ww K @ fw 7 K 0) fu 7 », we're talkin u ow K i) wu a a ct oO wu lot of people, especially a lot of people 7 that, you know, worked August 9th and 10th, ve got to, you know -- wo Mm-hmm. 0 I: | -- got to make sure that we have our information right. Not j 2 we talked to people, but we’ve got to make sure 3 that that’s the actual, accurate information. 5 a : Fair enough. back out here, is primarily to make sure that 8 things are accurate. wo 20 with all this and everything like that, so, 21 what’s the next course of actio 22 interviewed, you’re still interviewing other 23 people. So, what happens next? 24 a : That’s what we’re kind of 25 saying, is, like, we take the information and EFTA00062469

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wo Ne] WwW ~] fee} wo a} ie] pass it along. When that will happen, I couldn’t tell you that. Ee : Ultimately, though, I would think what would, you know, if you’re talking about what happens cifically with in the hands of the BOP. I don't know about Ee : I don't know if it happens with the warden level. I don't know if it happens with OIA. I don't know wha there. But yeah. Timing. Like, I don't know. All I know is we’re not judge and jury. All we 11 the documents a : You sure. All right. I think this -- EFTA00062470

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Nh No N wo WwW fee} wo ie] Ww this part ri here now. Right? Ee : All right. Anything a : If you can think else, anything else you think that to share with us -- Mm-hmm. re (Indiscernible -- you ME: ow, on that note, though, being that this will be reviewed, is there anything you want to a : Pretty much that, like, although it may be a tr wasn’t here, I didn't h anything to do with it. And I really don’t think that, you know, didn't make a mist personal opinion. communication with them? still in EFTA00062471

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