DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: > 2019-010614 fon) c DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INS JUNE 15, 2021 EFTA00059973

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APPEARANC OR GENERAL EFTA00059974

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N WwW wo WwW 8 wo No No No WwW 24 ee : All right. The recorder s on. Today is Tuesday, June 15, 2021, and 10:08 a.m. My name is | ae) Q oO J a Department of J Hh = Q oO is] fh with the U.S ce Ph Hh P- Q @ the Inspector General, New York Field And th =] credentials. i) wn se are This int 2w with i} bh oO t 3 oO w o oO ed as n conduc part of an official U.S. Department of Justice Off General inv gation. Today - June 15, 2021. This interview is being | and a. This interview will be a . Could everyone please identify themselves for the record, and spell their last Wo EFTA00059975

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Ne] WwW Ne] WwW wo name? To start, again, I am D OIG Senior i) 3 ro] hr oO asked to voluntarily provide answers to our estions. Will you agree to a voluntary interview with the to review the DOJ OIG voluntary interview form. I'm going to read it for the record. It sa United States Departme eral Warnings and quested to Provide Information on - “You are being asked to provide information as part of an investigation EFTA00059976

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended. This investigation pertains to job performance failure and security failure. This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not have to answer questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you choose not to answer questions. Any statements you furnished may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceedings, or Agency disciplinary proceedings, or both.” And there is a waiver. It says, "I understand the Warnings and Assurances stated above and I am willing to make a statement and answer questions. No promises or threats have been made to me, and no pressure or coercion of any kind has been used against me.” You can take a look at that, if you would like, and if you agree, you can sign where it says Employee’s Signature. WN: (indiscernible *00:02:57) copy of this. ee : This isn't what I wanted. Do you need it? Thank you, sir, for signing. I am going to sign as the signature of the Office of the Inspector General Special Agent. And I am going to print my name. a. do you EFTA00059977

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1 mind ji t printing your name where it 2 Employ Name? And do you under 5 wo uu 6 just raise your right hand? a. do you wear to tell the truth and nothing but the interview? t b u- EFTA00059978

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wo istice, Federal Bureau of Pris And what is All right. Thank you. And what is And what is That’s going to be in EFTA00059979

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2 t. And what was Social Work. 8 ee: Great. Thanks. Did you 9 have any employment prior to the BOP? 0 a : Yes. I had worked almost two 6 years - well, nine years, 11 months in the fe) ) reso Thanks for your wo 21 ee : When did you work as a EFTA00059980

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wo het Basically, When y isibility? ou left, what at that time, graphical And what was was I that? EFTA00059981

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Ne] WwW WwW When Bureau of ad when did you training down at tl! Law Enforcement Training Cente ial We don’t have to it. Ort just briefly, I mean, what positions have you held with the don’t have to go into each itution. Just, like -. I was also a GL-9 Lieutenant. A GL-11 Lieutenant. I was the Deputy Captain, GL-12. currently, I ama EFTA00059982

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11 Ww 0 dates were you the Captain? 1 a : I was the Captain from : What we My first = wu | H a fo th 0 Captain Depu 1 Brooklyn. EFTA00059983

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2 ee : The Metropolitan Correctional Ww o 5 4 a : Perfect. And l co 0 a : It would be, at that point, sitioning. c 3 a : So, I would, normally, I ld be t answer to two was transitioning at that time. hat time, are you talking 2019? EFTA00059984

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= Lg he Ww this inci 9 | | ld then take 5 But how she was 6 3 ac 9 as, -ill in that 21 inci t happ that ponsibilities, EFTA00059985

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N WwW 2) wo WwW 8 wo e conversations ody, and also, I would h Warden. a : So, it would just depends on I As far as, though, , if, you know, being that and August 10th, I believe that the you contacted when you were -- because that was Is that what you were sayin a : My belief is that she was on which was stated -- 14 EFTA00059986

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15 y- Which you just Ww n w pb. oF ke 20 Eee : Perfect. Thank you. All fou were of the FBI and the DOJ OIG back when this EFTA00059987

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16 rsations with Ww ct oO co Q 20 21 his current position, where -", 22 sorry. EFTA00059988

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wo were promoted “Where he that’s when I went to Po in Brooklyn, 2015 was when you | J at] + bh it) EFTA00059989

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oo wo co wo directly supervises approximatel yf 7] Lieutenants.” Does that compromise of all the Lieutenants? This was at the time. Was that all the Lieutenants at the MCC? staff/Correctional Officers under his purview. a : Mm-hmm. Yes. Well, you know, when they say that, what they under ” t nd o w is that, under Correctional Services, that was probably the amount of staff that was - again - in Correctional Services, as subordinate staff. However, my direct supervision would have been over just the Lieutenants. | Lieutenants. Right. I thought you were ee saying GS-13. Gotcha. ‘i al the Institution’s MM, which also includes the Warden. | primary duty to ensure that securit its on “ ° 1) protocols are met by his Lieutenants and sub-s and that policy guidelines are being followed, as set forth by the BOP.” EFTA00059990

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nsible for the following: N WwW 4 Unit Lieuten Is that correct? an Administrativ 8 Lieutenant, responsible for maintaining wo pap work, et ce yo aperwork, et you an QO Administrative Lieutenant here, are you saying whoever was Acting in the Administrative 7) WwW Administrative duties. The Administrative ct 7 duties falls under the appointed SHU The SHU Lieutenant, the wo Lieutenant has certain duties that hav be done daily, within the unit. Not just the sion of the line staff that work 21 supervi er all on running of the Unit. unit, but also Meaning, that ensuring that all paperwork is 24 done. EFTA00059991

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7) fw K @ 1 WN: 8.11 security protocols followed. inmates - or run Ne] WwW proper cells. To 5 to audit said 6 they unit. what I was co 0 H ant was re) Q oO ct ct b- a w t Administrative Lieutenant? 2 a : Yes. The Administrative happen to know 5 how to 8 Lieutenant responsible for paperwork. And who 9 was that? 20 ch was Lieutenant 21 etic Sp. *00:17:10). 22 And a. common EFTA00059992

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Ww co om Friday Gyr And August 39, t 10 would in 21 EFTA00059993

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Ww 5 appears here, it erations Lieutenant on Saturd what times did she work 4 a : At that time, the shift they dule. The 5 were working 6 schedule was to 0600. p.m. on n, I'ma 21 her Administrative Lieutenant at 22 when Epstein was and a little after ~ EFTA00059994

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Lieutenant, which 2 nant 9. informed me - 3 ame aware the incident, I 30 that morning. Ww a be K oO if] on fe) 3 oO ct a K i) ww ct a bh ifs] rt za i) ne oO 8 a : I believe it was Lieutenant that day, though? Ph f the SHU , at that time, his Wo EFTA00059995

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Ne] WwW WwW Lieutenants were not on the weekends. Friday. I belie gh would attend. know if he was on August 1 wouldn’t have worked. Let me | ti‘ aié‘ésll And you can just say, was he on the schedule? 2r for Friday, that the fh Oo KK rt iy fu ct us to belie ve he was not there. 24 EFTA00059996

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oo wo o wo ine) oO ine] NS — ine] uw Correct? ee : That is correct. He was not there, no. position have been, like, you know, was there someone s placed in the Acting role when he’s gone, or is -? a : Normally, due to our staffing at MCC, at that point, or at that time, we tried to ensure that, you know, looking over the roster, to try to ensure that someone was within there, the supervising unit. But again, due to the shortage of Lieutenants at that cr time, I had to - as monitoring, or looking a the roster - I would try to place areas of importance, so Operations Lieutenant, ensured that the Activities Lieutenants was filled. And at that time, that particular day, he wasn’t on the roster, or that post was left un- assigned. ee : And that post, like you said, isn't assigned on the weekends. , Saturday. Great. EFTA00059997

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staff provide special No wu 2. bP 7] o o rt fu ct a a n 3 consider ions for high-profile inmates, if 4 deemed appropriate, and designated as such. In 5 order to ensure an inmate is providing with 6 proper care, the facility evaluates the inmate 7 using several measures, including mental, 8 physical, medical, psychological, and sexual wo assault victim, or predator assessments. Since 10 different inmates are admitted with different criteria, appropriate housing varies.” 2 a : Correct. 4 interacted with inmate Jeffrey Epstein on 5 approximately three occasions at MCC. All of 16 which Epstein maintained a pleasant demeanor.” 17 a : Correct. 8 ee : “During the first instance, Epstein asked | who he was, and wo 20 QEBMMMMJ responded by introducing himself, and 21 explaining his position at the jail. During 22 another instance, | explained to Epstein 23 the policy regarding meals during Attorney 24 sessions, and made certain Epstein was 25 accommodated with water, visits to the EFTA00059998

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4} So, did he receive - and 2 I know, it’s my understanding that he was, most , Most da 5 time that the Attorney visitation would 6 inmate Epstein was in that area, primarily, wo spent most of the day 0 with his Defense Counsel, and was brought down 1 as soon as the Attorney visit opened.” So, 2 would that be, like, Monday through Friday, or ] -- that’s a that’s seven days a week. fee} All right. So, was it wo 20 21 And was his food 22 brought to him there, then? obtain food? : How would he wu het EFTA00059999

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Ww normally, visitation. you know, is aff Howe. I belie offered meals from the a : I can't remember as far as - I didn't remember there was an issue Ww and know EFTA00060000

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ow oO wo wo 29 a : So, I can't tell you if he was actually getting a tray, during that time, I can't remember. But I do remember, there were conversations that - and I know we did something in order to ensure that the inmate was provided some type of meal. Or whatever. I can't remember. ee: Sure. All right. That’s fine. As far as the, it mentions two visits. Do you remember anything about the third visit that you made with Epstein? a : The third one. So, that night, on - that would be Friday, August 93th of 2019, I believe I had worked that day close to 8:00. It was about 8:00 or so. a : 8:00 p.m. on August 9? A: 8 00 pon. a : Correct. So, I was actually on my way, and exited, you know, went and talked to the Operations and Activities Lieutenants. You know, let them know I was leaving for the day. And when I reached the elevator on the third floor, inmate Epstein was being escorted out of Attorney visit by his EFTA00060001

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oo wo o wo ine) oO ies) =] Unit Manager. ee : Okay. And who was that? a : Which that was, I believe, (Phonetic Sp. *00:25:26) a : At which time, I, you know, I said, hello, how you doing, Mr. Epstein? And he Right. was, like, okay. So, he had asked me, and he said, Captain, i if) it okay if I get a telephone call? Now, mind you, we had already discussed that when the inmate - we would reasonably attempt to always facilitate a phone call for the inmate, especially while him being housed in the Special Housing Unit. So, I said to the are you going to SHU? He said, yeah. I said, well, are you going to be able to monitor the call with the inmate? And he was, like, yeah, I got no problem with that. I said, well, I ine] don’t have a problem. Just make sure that you follow the protocols, and the protocols is, is when that inmate is allowed to use the phone, it has to be monitored by staff, and the number, and who they’re talking to has to be placed in a log. EFTA00060002

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No WwW No WwW wo ee : So, I said, make sure that , that’s I got in the elevator, and I exited the institution. conver Mr. Epstein? y. And s the point where - okay, so, you did authorize that call to be made, from the SHU? tain line You know, you can plug it it’s the calls. Or you can put it allow calls which : Would that be called a a : Yeah. It would be just an out. This would be a out, out. tion happened with a. in front of Ww a EFTA00060003

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ioe) Ne] WwW 4 fF : Mm-hmm. : And recorded Right. mak C wo said <- 1 I: -— and did you -- 2 a : Correct. a: -- cic 4 all, to document what was -? - the WwW tell him, at 9 20 22 want to call my Attorney. Who was your Attorne 24 When tt s my name is so and so. I have a call for EFTA00060004

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q iu) Hh rh HK 1) Epstein. What is your name? And what ke is your title? phone to the =re while they’re on know if that Ww 4 fee} EFTA00060005

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Ne] WwW WwW J o am oO w .Q o 2 * an a : It would be maintained, just review. You know? It would just be, get a call? Yeah. I pull the book when he was just Epstein. It would be all -- ioe) EFTA00060006

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ioe) uw 1 WS: tt would be a 2 You know, and it would have tl! 1d who they called, the number, the know if t duration is on 5 there. But it will the person who also call. So, you know, all that information. But it wasn’t something, like, a and then it was Ne] WwW You don't know. Okay. how Q 20 was fine. He was 22 He was cheerful. ee : You know, he didn't look 24 disheveled. He felt - because I said, how you doing? You all right? - he said, EFTA00060007

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Ww i=) 1 man, I'm good. Everything is fine. And I 2 said, did you have a good visit? And he said, 3 yeah. Everything is fine, Cap. I said, all 6 a : You know? 7 Ee : No cause for concern? 8 a : No, because every time we had that interaction, it was always pleasant. It wo 2 was made aware of the possibility that Epstein ue] 3 would be housed at MCC in advance of Epstein’s 4 arrival. | was not present when inmate 5 Epstein was admitted to the facility. Epstein 16 was thoroughly vetted to determine if he was fit for general population, and was ultimately 8 placed in the Special Housing Unit. MCC places wo inmates under three categories of close ra" € 20 supervision. One: dry cell for those at risk 21 for smuggling contraband. Two: 22 observation. And three: suicide watch.” N a 5 | x 5 that all correct? Nh H a) Yes. At that time, yes. Nh uw EFTA00060008

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Ne] WwW WwW rationale for placement of the inmate in the cial Housing Unit would been a decision They would have You know, what would be being endangered if he would be placed in neral population? His culpability. Can he .Q 0 cope while being inside of a eral h know how to : a: es. Thank you, sir. Are ioe) EFTA00060009

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ioe) oo ure housing units within the Ne] WwW 4 housing unit. WwW 6 who’s the person that’s over it, but I believe A 7 it was the Attorney General, or whoever, make U inmates. EFTA00060010

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4 co Ww made a call to would the inmate. vet him, believe mt) ve] EFTA00060011

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uU oO ies) wo wo N ins) ine] r Ww N : Nh Nh uw mcc. 7) where I meant by, is, so the executive staf Hh wasn’t able to -- a : I don’t belie ee : -- independently -? a : No. We were not. ee: Okay. Were there many inmates housed within Ten South at that time? a : No. I believe, at that time, we may have had a total of four to five. Of e i °. course, you know, we had the notorious Joaquin Guzman up there. We also had the Apple Puff (Phonetic Sp. *00:33:38) was up there. We also had inmate - it starts with an S. I remember his name. But basically, these are inmates that have made crimes against the United States, which it was deemed that those inmates would be in that Special Management Unit, and th couldn’t, of course, go to the general population. terrorist type of people? a : I would say some of them were terroris You know, of course, you had EFTA00060012

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1 Joaquin Guzman that was up there, the terrorist 2 king pin, drug king pin. He couldn’t go ona 3 general population unit. 4 ee : Sure. 5 a : He would go - normally, guys 6 like that would be in places where I come from, 7 before, you know, like a . 9 a : He would be at the ADX 0 *00:34:19). v (Phonetic Sp. 11 I believe that - Apopov - I think 2 that was his name, Apopov or netic These guys had made terrorist 4 threats against the United States, or there was 5 guys up there that had materials, or that was oO if) rt oS wu ct 16 found in cooperation with outside Agenci was trying to determent of (Indiscernible and cause harm to the United Ww 122) rr mw rt oO n 3 a oO if) oO i! 5 =] A Oo rh Q G ie ts] was put in that 20 unit. N c Sure. N nN you wouldn’t want in the 23 general population because -- 25 ae : -- of their recruitment EFTA00060013

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Ne] WwW co Ww value, or their radical ability they able to do - have recruitment value for, you ow, for other inmates in the general population. You a : But Jeffrey Epstein, a multi-billionaire. Sure. Now, as far as Ten would be the that an inmate at MCC would be placed ee : Y- EFTA00060014

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WwW wo WwW wo : Okay. tein preferred not to have a cell mate ged in manipulative behavior to avoid having one.” What of behavior did he -? 7) ct en he manipulative behavior. s wing passive resistant activity, as u know, wouldn’t listen to sta Hh Hh y're giving him direction. You know, he in his cell, and he wouldn’t talk. You know, I believe he wasn’t taking meals one point. He Things of continues, including a : I don't know. EFTA00060015

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44 + 4 Do you know who he made that request to? Would 5 it have 6 a : He probably would have made af A 03) ct rh 7 those requests to of the that may U U 8 have been monitoring him at that time. Because wo if he was placed on ological observation 0 at that time, psychological observation, you would have had to have a staff person that sat 2 there and monitored the inmate. Another inmate couldn’t h WwW monitored him. kay. And that, is that, 16 a : That would have been 24 hours fe) wn ie] wu un rt wu rh Mh =] ] 3 on oO H B wn wo u- £ n ct | | 22 and watch him? ee : Communicate with him, or no? EFTA00060016

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1 a : Yeah, of course. 2 a: ey. 3 a : I mean, and that’s, you know, 4 encouraged. I mean, you know, and not have - 5 you want it to - even though the inmate is 6 placed in that situation, again, we’re talking 7 about humanity here. ae : You know, you want to gage 10 this guy’s mental acuity. Meaning that, the wo inmate, you want to know how he’s feeling, how 2 he’s doing. 4 ee : Is he improving? Or is he 5 declining? Because if he’s declining, and you 16 can actually see it, you want to contact 7 somebody. You know, if this guy is in there 8 being very, you know, belligerent, he’s being wo passive aggressive, or active resistant, or 20 displaying signs of violence. You want to make 21 sure you notify someone. You’re not just going 22 to sit there and allow this guy to do self-harm 23 to himself and/or a staff when they come to the 24 door, to provide his services. You know? Such 25 as taking him to shower; providing his meals; EFTA00060017

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46 1 providing his medication or wt 2 So, you just don’t want to just Ww wu = bh is) = now, if he’s this inmate just, y rimentally could be harm to staff, or 5 himself, you want to ensure that you noti 6 someone. followin —] oO al wu he wn oO g Epstein was initially placed 9 on suicide watch. later inter 0 again, and downgraded to psychological observation.” ee : Now, just for the suicide where are WwW Those would be conducted 7 downstairs, on the second floor, in the Health 8 Services a) f) T] area. ee : And that’s outside of the C U wo at was prior to any thing like that? EFTA00060018

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@ rt c K 5 U) on After some time, he was r b ct S iy] rt n Oo wv he 2 to the SHU. | began hearing talk that 3 to get back on suicide 5 Mm—-hmm. 6 ee : “Information like this is ” usually generated from rounds, kites -”, and 8 kites are notes, correct? WwW would be inmate correspondence. 4 ee : Yeah. “And monitoring of suicide watch. You know, staff ui] K i) rt ow p- not EFTA00060019

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uw fo) 10 11 12 13 14 17 18 19 staff is - oh, I'm sorry - every 30 minutes, I believe, I can't remember. It’s been a while. But, you know, a staff member - it’s every 30 minutes, I believe, is taking a log of what the inmate is doing inside of his cell. ee : You know? So, you know, what is he doing? The inmate is facing to the right. The inmate is facing away from staff. The inmate is, you know, doing what, or he makes statements, those statements will be written in the log. ae : Okay. It says, “On or about July 23, 2019, Epstein was found unresponsive, on the floor of his cell, with a homemade piece of fabric on his chest.” When ” you say a “homemade piece of fabric,” can you explain that a little bit? a : Okay. Basically, a homemade piece of fabric. It could be anything. Because it’s out of the Special Housing, that’s what we’re talking about. Right? ee : Yeah. I mean, I'm talking about specifically in this instance. Do you know what is meant by “found on the 48 EFTA00060020

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Ne] WwW Ne] WwW wo Mh fu oO 5 b- a (2) 5 _ P i) floor, with a homemade tie (Indiscernible of homemade t ws fon ke o Cc n i) D P- ct wu i wu bh bh though, yourself? a : I can't remember. Sure. “Epstein’s cell mate had flagged the attention of a staff cell ma to bring him to the Medical at that time, who his cell mate was? EFTA00060021

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at. And did i) y. Gr 2 you - all right. We talk about him in a little from his staff that Epstein memorandum, 8 me, and I made my report, I believe it was in oO Lad @ vel oO K t 2) Hh P- aQ ps Q oO ft 5 Ke 9 the 2 believe that she had put out an e-mail, which WwW concluded that the inmate was showing 4 manipulative behavior through his statements, Medical staff. 5 and what was 8 saying that the incident didn't occur as the inmate may have tried to make it look or occur. o nt with an EFTA00060022

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wo wo 24 sorry. “Because he was and making other not consistent with an unconscious state. Epstein was medically and became coherent. Epstein claimed oF) “” that his cell mate, Nicholas Tartaglione -”, T- a : -- I can't remember, but I believe a report of incident may have been Okay. a : And primarily, when a report of incident is generated - so, any time that an incident happens in the institution, I'm going to walk you through this. The Lieutenant that’s on shift is ed to do the initial suppo fact finding. The gathering of evidence. ae : And all of these things. And EFTA00060023

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1 then, they write a brief synopsis, and then, ue] 2 it’s put in a packet, and then, ultimately, SIS 3 Department will investigate it, especially if having an assault, which would h 24 Alpha, which is a minor ass 6 another. So, pictures would have been taken. 7 Clinical assessments of both inmates would have 8 been taken. Witness statements would have been wo ct iy) a oO 3 Ae) an bh 2) Ph ct a @ n @ ct a Pp 5 Q Oo = is) c a o p wu a i) i) =] 2 - Lieutenant Po - would have -? a : Would have been -- 4 ee : Created it and provided WwW 16 a : -- and would have created it, Oo move on. 8 ee : And do you know if there any credibility found to the claim that wu 5 o Fh oO KR b am rt wo i] u jie, that this other - his cellmate - 21 had tried to take his life? 22 a : I don’t believe there was any credibility that was ever concluded -- 23 ae : -- that that incident EFTA00060024

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1 happened. a N WwW about when was initially found, if the 4 homema or whatever it was, was found thing with that, 7 you know what I mean? Like, if someone was Fh 8 trying to hang themself, if it came on their wo do you know anything 0 have happened? t b I mean, forensically, I 2 wouldn’t know. I'm not a -- WwW wo c K i) tigator on that wo ee : Again, I'm trying to remember what it was, or what was used, but again -- Nh EFTA00060025

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1 a : -- I don't know exactly. So, I can't really determine or give you that type N WwW of, you know, I don’t have expertise -- a : -- in that area. So -. ee : But the information that 7 was provided to you suggested that he tried to ow oO 8 take his own life, not that the cell mate tried wo to take is life? 10 a : Correct. That it was inconclusive that the inmate had - inmate 2 Tartaglione - had tried to kill this guy. Or 3 tried to do any self-harm to this guy. So, you 4 have to - so, like, you have to take an 5 advantage because it’s one inmates’ word 16 against another. 8 a : So, when the investigation comes down, of course, inmate Epstein would wo 20 have been interviewed; inmate Tartaglione would 21 have been interviewed, at which time, you would 22 have took those statements, you would have 23 waived, and then you would have took into 24 consideration any witness statements, or i ine] uw that was observed during the clinical EFTA00060026

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wo co wo N Nh N a Nh ine] uw So, t understand that every hat’s hi why Health Services because the inmates don’t want ng they’re doing, or is being entered on that clinical assessment. saying that he was have been So, th n’t - ulted. been unconscious, Or if you wa re. at’s where they were re. he was supposed to have ifs) ; displaying this type of manipulative behavior. So, again, I wasn’t there. So, I don't know what occurred. I'm just going by what was - the information that was relayed back to me. as ee : I believe that Tartaglione was responsible for - he was a former Police Officer, I believe - and I believe he had wi uw EFTA00060027

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1 killed four people, and then he buried them, 2 buried the victims somewhere up near Otisville 3 Prison. I think that’s what it was. Back in 4 e day. ay. on wi ad fii) rr wu og Something like that. —] w ie) he was actually in 8 for murder, though? wo Yeah. It was murder. He was i] QO in for murder and whatever other stuff he was fu doing. WwW J p Oo w @ an o Q ct @ om a pe 3 to be fe) | | fs) if @ bh o a rt @ oF 7 p- =] 9 Epstein’s roommate, and why tted ine) H Q O 5 t a] @ 3 v) 3 oO @ 21 Tartaglione. But what I will tell you is that, 22 e en though Tartaglione had a murder on his jacket, Tartaglione also was an inmate that had ulation. You sues being in general po understand what I'm saying? EFTA00060028

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 57 ee : Mm-hmm. Former Police Officer? a : Former Police Officer. He had issues - because I’ve dealt with Tartaglione at Brooklyn - so, he was up on one of the Units in Brooklyn, and he had issues with those inmates in those blocks, where they’ re made for people who are sex offenders. For inmates that have issues with - when they go to population - general, they can't cope. Formal law enforcement. These type of guys are in that unit. So, you don’t really have that much issues in those type of units because these guys are going to do their time, or await their sentencing, and then move on. So, you don’t really have a lot of violence. But this guy was always, always in the mix of something. a : But we couldn’t put him on the general population unit, and you just can't throw him in SHU. You know what I'm saying? Just because. You just can't. So, in Brooklyn, we had the ability to put him in - I think it was in K82. I can't remember. When he goes to MCC, you know, they don’t have those EFTA00060029

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 58 type of units. You know? So, he would have to go in general population, or he would go to SHU. So, if the inmate fails the program and said I'm not going to population, you can't force me. So, when you do his assessment, his Unit Team does the assessment, Psychology does their assessment, Health Services does that assessment, and say, well, hey, this guy is clear to go to GP. There’s nothing precluded him to go. But the inmate said, well, you know, I'm a 306. 306 is refusal of programs. I'm not going. So, put me in SHU. So, that’s how he ended up in SHU. Hs: «Sure. So, he was in SHU already? a : Yeah. | ti‘ aié‘ésll And do you believe he was a good placement for Epstein? a : Well, at the time, again, you would have to be mindful, we don’t - how could I put this? - inmates are not placed in cells based on race, or - but however - or gang affiliations, all of these things that, you know, but however, you vet inmates. So, you say, Okay, well, you have guys up there that - EFTA00060030

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N WwW wo wo 24 rt is fu ct = ) KK 0] al w Qa ra o Q 3 cc ind a 0) KK Q ia wu KK Q i) if) = ey, re in they can't cope on the out eneral population unit. So, we would look at him just like another K o wu 0 Q got a murder beef, okay, that’s fine. But guess what? He never while incarcerated. at he was and that Epstein claimed that he tried to murder him, do you think that - do you believe that credibility claim? wi Ve} EFTA00060031

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wo WwW wo 23 ys Ww fu BP Ss wu r = & bh f w wu bea) Bb w be ifs) rt t I will tell you, like 4] ta rt ement 03) s before, that it was brought to my Uv attention that inmate Epstein was doing manipulative behavior, kind of testing the water to s i) e what he could get away with. incarceration. Probably not too familiar with being in jail, but however, he’s a smart guy. He kind of figured out what he could do, in order for him, one) not to go to GP; two) try to get in SHU and try to get a cell by himself. hat’s kind of where he wanted it to go. So then, he wanted to be -- and that may have been c 7) o, you believe that Tartaglione because he wanted a cell by himself. in my belief, after EFTA00060032

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10 11 12 13 14 17 18 19 looking at everything, and everything that was done, I believe so. I think that would be accurate. ee : Okay. It says, “He was placed back on suicide watch for approximately one week.” So, that happened the 23rd, and it brought him up to about July 30th. Is that correct? ae : Mm-hmm. Correct. HE: «Sf 2019. +“Unlike his first and previous placement on suicide watch, Epstein now has definitive suicidal tendencies reported in his incarceration history. The staff was tasked with determining whether Epstein was in fact suicidal, or using manipulative tactics to avoid assignment of a cell mate. After suicide watch, Epstein was placed on psychological observation, and eventually returned to the SHU.” Now, again, and just to go back, this Ten South thing, that didn't never - were Lieutenants bringing it to you? Like, hey, he should be on Ten South? ee : You don’t recall any Lieutenants saying that? 61 EFTA00060033

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Ne] WwW WwW wu guy as a identifier that has wouldn’t be a And I und you just come from Central re talking Lieutenants, and they’r yu know this - it’s Mm-hmm. EFTA00060034

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1 a : That’s put on an inmate just 2 like - I will give you an example - sentencing gnations. Okay? 5 a : That’s their job. ey’re going to do, s 8 what Securi level inmates, what type of wo prisons 0 you know, all of these different things, all that stuff is going to come from that Central 2 Office, to say, okay, we looked at this inmate’s or PSI, and we Ww ue] my ia rt pb. Q i] be fu ta 4 feel that this identifier needs to be placed on CAR . So, a SAMS identification, or 16 moniker, put on an inmate, executive staff n 7 can't put that on there. wo That’s going to come from 20 N c So, although a N nN N a ve - yeah - they Nh may have thought and said, yeah, due to, cuation, of him being a multi- Nh uw EFTA00060035

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wo o wo ine) oO ine] oO billionaire, or whatever, or due to his issues i] wn of his proclivity to sexual deviances, and all of these things, he wouldn’t be a good tw candidate to go to GP. ut guess what? That responsibility, that identifier, that moniker should have been put on Epstein before he even came to MCC. ee: Sure. So, do you know if this is something - obviously, it sounds like it would have been out of your hands - would that be something that the Warden would discuss with, what? The Regional Director? a : That’s right. The Warden would have had that discussion between SIA, the Regional staff, and also, it goes to the Region, the Central Office staff over Correctional Programing. HN: nc designations. ES: -- involved with any of ee : I would never be in any of those conversations. EFTA00060036

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ow oO wo wo oO) uw who would be the two to - I guess the Warden would be the right person to go back to and just say, hey, did this ever come up in conversation? a : Right. ee : Okay. Okay. It says, “At the direction of the Warden, | initiated the process of compiling possible cell mates for Epstein, vetting them and submitting candidates to the Warden for his review. f and his staff fully screened potential cell mates, and reported their determinations up to the Warden. Efrain Reyes -", E-F-R-A-I-N, R-E-Y-E-S, “- was selected and housed in a cell with Epstein.” ” 4 Assistant Warden,” but I'm assuming they mean 7] is] th o Associate Warden, “Warden and Regional Director were notified.” a : Okay. This is how that went down. PF sat with me - not with the AW present - and we wanted to - we started talking about security protocols, moving € forward for Jeffrey Epstein. That’s with me EFTA00060037

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1 and a. we had this 3 a : Because like I said earlier 6 Supervisor, however, I did have conversations 7 directly with the Warden, as far as 8 securit tuations (Indiscernible *00:5 wo 3 institution. 0 EE: «sure. 11 a : So, we sat there, and he 2 wanted me to compile names, and vet inmates 3 that would be possible good candidates as a 4 cell mate for Epstein moving forward. 16 a : So, I brought a compiled, I 7 believe I had ten names, and he and I went 8 through those names, we brought it down to 0 because I sat there - when he called the wo ct p 4K @ 0) 21 Regional Director, on the phone, and he and the 22 Regional Director vetted those three names. 24 a : And then, I sat there, and I to that conversation. I sat there, was privy EFTA00060038

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7 —) him the whole 2 makeup m, and Director Ww 7 Ee : -- ultimately made the co Q o u know, those ty tH MK d om , a Similar t of che i a EFTA00060039

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wo wo a : -- as Epstein, I believe, or I can't remember. was being vetted - was he close to, like, a release date or anything like that? An anticipated release date? a : No one knew that. Because this is what you need to understand about MCC. MCC and MDC are basically jails. They’re not fn ons. pris a : It’s a jail. So, that means goes to court, you know, locked up, and then, the next day, you might go to court, the Judge might releasing you. We don’t know. a : The only time we’1ll know is when the inmates come back from court, where is y- Now, we got this guy still in our count. So, if they don’t bring a transfer order, our count is bad. So, they’re going to bring the transfer order back with oO. o EFTA00060040

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 them for court line. These guys got released. So, normally, court line is over before 4:00. So, we try to get these guys up. Do some inmates come back after 4:00? Yes, they do. But however, we don’t know if an inmate goes out to court, if they’ re coming back. WN: fowever, there is times when they put out a roster, and it’s given to - as far as all Correctional Officers that work the units, and it will say, court line, inmate Reyes - using him as an example - WAB. That means that he has to come downstairs with all belongings. So, if they say it, that means he’s not coming back. That’s either he’s transferring to another BOP facility, or he’s going to be released to the street. ES: 02 a : But I can guarantee you that that transfer or that roster, that inmate Reyes was on that day, it didn't say WAB. Because it would have said WAB, the first thing that that OIC should have said, that’s my orange tag guy. Because I made them do all the orange tag guys, and I made them put them up on the board. 69 EFTA00060041

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oo wo wo ~l =] Epstein is that orange tag guy. He’s supposed to have a cellie. WAB. Oh. Cap. SHU Lieutenant wasn’t there. But he would have called me directly. God. Hey, so and so don’t have a cell. ee : Yeah. So, how long did it take to vet? You know, I know you said you started it with ten, and then it brought down to three, and then the Regional Director ultimately decided the one. But how long does that process take? a : I believe it took - I'm thinking we did it for - we did a day. I rt took a : I mean, we actually went - and, you know, I don't know - I know either the Warden and I was having a lengthy conversations, because the Warden wanted to ensure - QM philosophy when dealing with Mr. Epstein was this: he’s another inmate. a : And what he tried to try to get across to exec staff, and what he tried to EFTA00060042

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ow oO wo wo get across to us, as me, as the Captain, to when I disseminated down to the subordinate staff, this is another inmate. Who cares about what his charges are? Sure. Or since he’s sensationalized in the media. Nobody cares. ee: Of course. : We’re going to manage him appropriately. Because if you know anything about jails, and the BOP, especially Brooklyn and MCC, we don’t run those jails. The court runs those jails. ae : So, and that’s the truth, the court, the Judges, whatever the Judge says goes. So, and that’s unfortunate, but that’s neither here nor there. So, Po wanted the staff to say no, this is the inmate, yeah, “ he has certain charges, but we’re going to make sure he gets everything that all the inmates get when they come to MCC. The inmates are going to get proper care. The inmate is going to get showers. The inmate is going to be fed. Whatever it may be. But however, after those EFTA00060043

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 72 situations with Epstein where it showed that his behavior was manipulative, when it shows that he was trying to get things for unnecessary gain. Or he would do anything to get anything that would benefit him, we had to take some different protocols. We had to take a different - they had to take a different -- MEME: approach. ae : -- mindset with this guy, or the way we managed him had to change. Because we already had this guy saying that he was going to be killed, and all of this stuff, or whatever. So, we just wanted to make sure, moving forward, we put protocols in place that will protect us, as an Agency. a : So, speaking of protocols, was it discussed, then, when you were vetting these, hey, we have inmates constantly moving out of here, if Reyes is moved, one of these other two that were down to the three would be moved in with him? Was that discussed? ee : No. He would just basically - because like I said, again, at MCC, you wouldn’t know how long the duration on the EFTA00060044

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You wouldn’t KNOW. Ww co is available in the unit, that may 2 know, our policy and protocols in the Bureau of ne must 20 a have a ce the areas that we didn't dis EFTA00060045

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1 was meant for - it was, Ww , which w ising Unit? on : Mm-hmm. J fee) 3 0 2 two-man occupancy? uw a c n o QQ bp o ct p a two-man cupan Mm-hmm. fea] a f rt o t =| bh 3 ) 3 oO ie] rh + ~ o 0 0 | =] fu ) b Because all with inmates that 22 were filled ed that type was ver discussed to occupancies? of cells were vetted, tha EFTA00060046

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oo wo co wo ine] uw ~l uw that, if they was put with another inmate, inside of the Special Housing Unit, they would die. ee : And was part of that -- a : They would be assaulted. So, we would hi to make those considerations. So, the protocols of how we dealt with inmates, according to their situation -- a : -- I believe it was sound. But guess what? You can only - you’re like the coach - I can make the game plan, but if the players are not executing the game plan, whose Is it the coach? Or the player? what we’re doing here, we’re Monday morning quarterbacking. We’re just saying, like, all right, this is - and that’s why we’re going back through it. So, “The Warden directed HMMM on) smultiple occasions that Epstein needed a cell mate at all times, and ma verbally informed his Lieutenants the same. | repeatedly directed his SHU Lieutenant - FP - that Epstein needed a cell mate at all times. Additionally, FY EFTA00060047

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1 visited th it) SHU on multiple occasions, and 2 directed staff to be very alert and attentive 3 ”“ did you 2 - so, 3 the the 4 very 5 you just list the p D 6 informe d those people? 8 work were normally from - let’s just say 7:30 wo to 4:00. 21 a : So, I ensured that it wasn’t 22 within one week, but it was a process of doi 5 Q rounds. EFTA00060048

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1 because that’s the one I work. Evening watch, 2 I stay late. I walk 3 this is situation. 4 you know, we’re paying attenti 5 morning watch, of course. look to fel wu 3 0 who t name 1 who had a WwW 6 in there. ia. || was one of the guys that was up there as a Rec O o = b 3 21 were, you had ee : -- specifically with 4 them, and the d with t EFTA00060049

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2 name the 3 I think 4 a : You got - now, M. Thomas at you need to understand is, ct p wu rt a @ Thomas, wi 2) would have been - becau ou know, like I 7] e ’ 7 said - overtime. Non-custody. dHe’s non- staff. I don’t wo is P- 3 WwW fer) a) ie) ct 7 o ke I bh Kh you sign wo HU two is open. ifre non-custody. ct D can work it. A tea : Is the SHU easier to work EFTA00060050

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wo wo Because, in my opinion, from when I worked Special Housing, Special Ho was always hard work because I'm going to tell you why. You have to be vigilant. And when I mean vigilant, you have to understand, when re working that Unit, anything can happen. It could be quiet. But guess what? If not walking, looking in those cells, testing the Security protocols. Meaning, making sure the flaps are closed. Making sure the doors w K oO locked. You want to know that, in SHU, sometimes doors was unlocked. 1 oO ar Hh wu ps opened. To chase ee : What is a flap? a : -- the Food Service flap. Eee : Okay. Sure. a : You know? Making rounds. Making sure the inmates are not - have coverings up when you open up the - what do you call The window? EFTA00060051

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co 1 a : The windows or putting a 2 towel over their beds, and blocking the light 3 from you being able to observe them. 4 ee : But then, how -- 5 HS: nc what I said about -- 6 ee : but how -. : -- but I want to go back 8 ec e I know about the ement, about the wo doors being left open. I'm talking about more 0 in general popu you’ re 11 making rounds, those u test. 2 Making sure the door is secure. Making sure WwW ct S oO hh fe) ie) o a) a 2) ct it) vy K 0) o i) a c BK o 5 a : As an Officer coming up, e as a Lieutenant, do you know that I’ve actually walked in a Unit and pulled on the door that’s to be secure, and its inmate is wide fe) n i: ‘o ie] Oo n o o its) is] ue] o =] 21 : No. Because th No No No WwW and also when I was a EFTA00060052

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wo co wo N Nh N rs la Nh ine] uw Lieutenant making rounds, that’s what I would do. When I hit a unit, it wasn’t just to talk I would walk in and look at the Security protocols in the Unit. Is their fire extinguisher there? Good. our phone work? Computers work? Hey, let’s walk the block. Pulling on doors. Pulling on food slots. Showing - trying to train the Officers. a : That’s what I used to do. | tti‘iai‘éwl Lead by example. a : And guess what happens? You would find stuff, because people in hurry enough to go home on that evening watch, them inmates know their doors are locked. But they know they’re not going to come out. Because if they come out, there’s a situation. But they’1l sit up there and leave it open. ee : So, back to this, though. Can you look at the other SHU on, you know, the subsequent shifts, if you had conversations with them? , Thomas, no. ae : -- so, Thomas, because he EFTA00060053

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wo No WwW wo ine] f Nh No el en evening watch, || would work d to would talk to a oO Q wu nim. evening watch, so him on evening watch. He was working morning watch because it was such short wanted money, or to, regular Yeah, so, I talked to him. d with him. ng all the oO wo EFTA00060054

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Ne N No i S) wo WwW wo WwW 4 co Wo inside of the Unit, you know, he was in charge iring those Sentry r to ensure that the accountability of the unit the intr was correct, to make sure th placed in their proper cells. Who was this? 'm sorry. Hold on. a : T. Noel. T. Noel was | tti‘iai‘éwl And that’s a : -- now, I know Tova. =: a : Now, Tova, I can't remember a : But I know that I had hit all three shifts. Meaning day watch. I was tH D 5 5 up there on day watch. vening watch. over because that’s what the Warden wanted. He told me. Hey, m sure you go and hit all three shifts. The Warden told me to do it . So, if the Warden told me to do it, why EFTA00060055

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Ww Ww this. I want sure, to happen. walk through, to EFTA00060056

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1 you abs ; 9 3 Yeah. I think I have one, office, so I can show y want you to think I - I will bring it , would 8 el on that e- o 0 Tova would 1 nal Officer. PF : You understand? But was 8 considered a Correctiona s not 21 happen. is, we all going EFTA00060057

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two when you came in the , everyone 2 that when 5 sn’t about being a 6 or whatever. It’s wo he Ss ct 4K 2] on = a ct Pp °o 5 t 12] 0 principals. 11 | tti‘iai‘éwl But as far as there is an 2 e-mail that just the people that are working in the Correctional WwW : I have that. rt fee} wo Awesome. 20 a : Because it wasn’t just me 21 just talking to them. I put out guidance, and I kept putting out guidance. It wasn’t like it was one time. I talked about inmates bei placed on suicide watch. I talked about on there - what is the 5 =] wu EFTA00060058

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oo wo ow fon) o ine) Oo wo ine] ine] uw difference between close supervision - what is it? - suicide watch. observation. ing as psychological - and that you io nd psychological. There’s no such know now - there’s no such thing. It’s called close supervision. There’s no such as psychological. That was an MCC thing. close supervision and/or suicide watch. e-mail, though, that you sent to Correctional wu Officers saying that Epstein needed a cell mate? a : It wasn’t saying Epstein, but I do have two. I think I gave one e-mail and one memorandum that I wrote for the 583 packet for Epstein. I think you may have that. I don't know if you have it. And then, I have wrote another one about the important of doing 30-minute rounds in the Special Housing Unit. ee : Okay. Yeah, if you can - after we’re done - either you can send it to EFTA00060059

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co 5 a : Again, that was another 6 custody guy. So, a. I believe work - he was a Material Handler. I think fe 8 was a Material Handler. he’s not Services anymore. Howe EFTA00060060

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wo o wo ine) oO ine] Their Mm-hmm. whatever, their non- worked in the SHU, and the Correctional Officers, they were aware of it, th at] they may not have been? wouldn’t talk to them on know if there were any notes, or sticky notes, one, one, because I said orange card inmates - I said, make sure these inmates high visibility talked about that, that cards should be orange. high visibility inmates I got an e-mail about that, high visibility inmates t had different functions May not have been because I a daily basis. And what about, do you kind of, like, post-it or any - I had created - it particular inmates, inmates, and I think the inmates, their And those would be our that you - and I think inside the unit, you should take special care to ensure these Observed. but people in the facility, too - about the 89 EFTA00060061

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2 doing your rounds. 3 | tti‘ésSS Anything, though, about quirement, tt ed. When you’re know if there was any kind of, like, sticky on 5 Oo ~ it) or any kind of post-it about 7 make sure that Epstein -? 8 a : I can't remember. 3 h 0 aid, Ne] WwW a : -- you know, coming Warden, and you know - coming f that I uld have t aight 6 beneficial to the Correctional ance out. I kept putting wu. fee} wo e-mail and don’ Ee : What about some of the who were Acting Lieutenants? Somebody EFTA00060062

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Ne] Ne] WwW wo a. a. she would work t. i) Correctional pos U have he known would have known. Ee : -- should have she known a : It’s common knowledge that 30-minute rounds. on the OIC’s desk, on the ut the high visibility inmates, tein was a high visibility a : But is it understood that a high visibility inmate like that needs a cell mate? K oO wn EFTA00060063

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2 make sure doing round it’s also 3 unders if it’s And did they all co And to are not cust lie. I didn't have that Attorney EFTA00060064

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ron > © it ct oO actually promotec tting paid as a Lieutenant. 6 him. 8 in 9 know how - I 20 to him on and EFTA00060065

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Ne] WwW her. known 9 I put the guidan the e- O mail. 1 guidance, 2 alked about 3 ate I don’t know, I put out a lot of I mean, you’re the EFTA00060066

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ed in their Lieutenant watch, hould be rening watch, that 2) 0) awar And we 11 get in -- = wo Oo . that’s why we would h that conversation. When he and I had that No And do WwW to know about - aside 6 from what tt fee) wo internal. I came into ce about it. @ H were made awar would come ants, and we would talk again, EFTA00060067

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wo Ne] WwW wo ine] f Nh ie] out through emails, and the conversations that would have just a : He would he Thomas? a : Michael Thomas But by him working in the unit, Lie utenants, have S, he probably not. would know. EFTA00060068

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1 I mean, you would y »9kay, if he’s working No o watching or morning watch, there was no ion 3 need to move inmates. Th i) re was no x 4 that 10uld have been taking place. There was 5 no hearings. No medical. Nothing that we had 6 to open up a cell door for, for those inmates. 8 a : So, most of those inmates was there w wo reason for them WwW I i Bb 0) c ct U) 5 fu a ct n Ae] n Hh fu Kh wu mn | a] Q fu Bb 5 | 07) ue] 0) fu wa (on 5 Q rt o you know, hey, got wo are doing it, you But I know for a fact, the ly person that I spoke to, that I pulled in my office, was the SHU Lieutenant. of that unit. wo EFTA00060069

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Ne] WwW 4 RS: n-hen. 6 ee: For the unit. So, he’s is suppos within his known, specifically on the 9th EFTA00060070

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1 and 10th -- Mm-hmm. Ne] should h WwW | ~l I would have 8 to go back through my emails, you know, because wo a lot of the communication that me and the 0 Lieutenants had were through e-mail, because you can't catch them all on shift. + ¥ Nh oc K i) WwW a : You know, you catch them 4 passing and coming. So, I would put out 5 guidance that way. - that everyone knew that he had an orange card fee} and that he was a high visibili 9 Ss required to : 20 they known thr 22 excuse I'm not going to put that on You know, I'm not going EFTA00060071

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No WwW WwW Because I'm going to tell you what, real with you, it Sure. a : -- through that timeframe, to want to put my statement something like that, that could detrimentally harm that, not going to do that. And I'm not I'm saying just the fact th you’ re fing that y cific conversations about the -- aside from ia. But there was an orange -- EFTA00060072

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Ww with -- th I had That at one put o e-mail visibility one inmate. occupar ut, was I got saying vigilanc - all right - 0 EFTA00060073

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102 I went into detail with 9 3 Vy. So, ma if 4 it’s an nec cell uw 3 oO wu o + =e fii) 5 ct fom fu rt ct to it) het K it) el Cc P- K it) w o wW- rt inl m 1 c Pp: inl 0) | | % 7 a : Higher - or highe ay. , you just need y’re doing at all times, and make sure that they’re okay? Ww N i ee rn) wu tt rah be a] P i; rt t fe bh ct az pe 7) 4 instance, it wouldn’t be, necessarily, cell 5 mate. It 9 is the only one that you can specifically 20 recall -- EFTA00060074

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Nh h No wo OQ Ne] WwW wo I had those teams together, yeah, I would talk about vigilance after doing 30 minute Making sure again, just to make sure that I'm not You said you talked to ut it, but when did not only were telling them high visibility on Ep stein, were you also telling them, the p ople that you did interact with, that he needed to have a cell mate? or sorry - when is the last time, recall, that you had that conversation with the EFTA00060075

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No WwW wo wo ee : I can't remember, sir. No problem. a : I don’t remember. out between the Because like I said, that guidance cam oO time of him being upon his release from suicide watch from that last time, to the time during the time that we was doing the vetting for the cell mate. wu wa fou Oo K rt "0 1] K Bb 12] on oO rh time that this guidance and oO 17) fw ct be 12] 5 107) these conv was when we would walk through the unit and took place. Mm-hmm. And then, the reinforcement just do rounds. And then, I'm, like, hey he rt po 7] is a high visibility guy, why this guy got o a hb trays in the cell? Extra trays in his c ifs) Why this guy got this? So then, of course, you know, a lot of people at MCC, they didn't like me because I was trying to hold people accountable. But I didn't always write people up. Mm-hmm. 104 EFTA00060076

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 105 a : That’s how I did, I came up like that. I'm trying to help you. People thought me trying to just talk to them about Correctional Services, or trying, giving them little, you know, helping them out, talking to them, you know, that I was trying to be the know-all, be-all, be that guy. You know? You know, you’re not sociable, but now you’re down here, telling us what to do. You’re not one of those. That’s the way it felt like. So, like, again, I can give you the playbook to success. But if you don’t read it, it’s just words. ee : It’s just words. And then, I had a lot of issues with the Lieutenants. You know, Lieutenants, you know, were self-serving, even though, in my previous statement, I would never say anything statements to hurt them. I'm not doing that. But what I’1l1 tell you was, the relationship between me and the Lieutenant core was not good. So, again, as we move forward through today, you know, the statements that I make is not to try to put blame or try to hurt anybody. The only thing I'm doing is, is telling you that, when the EFTA00060077

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106 1 Warden me direction, he X, 2 Y, and Z, and X, Y, Z. Not only did I talk to WwW putting I can't catch everybo 6 I mean, like, 7 jo back to 8 It’s what it is. 9 Sure. And so you 0 know, 1 mind, WwW EFTA00060078

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wo was us you coming fault. we do asking you to us, EFTA00060079

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wo fF : You know? not coming to us. We’ re coming to EFTA00060080

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wo that Saturday, watch on that Saturday. o BP ror J D 3 ) fe} et to midnight? midnight ing different? on that urday, the August 10th. You can sp know some a : No, no, no. I was just clarifying. 9th? a : So, who was working on itenant? 109 EFTA00060081

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Ww - All right. All got this wro ng “tn rations EFTA00060082

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111 t) ND H oO _ i) > bh an a fw o he ¢ ro] ae ( i . be kK ia] i) b a OQ . o ct U ie] 4 that was incorrect, all this stuff about the 5 PHB thing. And then, it goes on to say, 6 ‘7 informally advised his Lieutenants that 7 Epstein was not to be housed alone, and 8 emphasized the need to be vigilant about 30- minute checks and unannounced rounds.” wo 0 that’s - you said there was emails about that, as well as when you spoke with your 2 Lieutenants, and when you went to the SHU, WwW 4 a : Mm-hmm. 16 you don’t remember the last time you did that, fee} ie) its) | | o o ct = oO i) 5 Cy =] he 7) Qo ct J fw S Q 22 HS: «kay. And you think you hit at least all three shifts between that time? EFTA00060083

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Ne] WwW co Ww point be person, or that 112 wu a) rt) r fs} o on or o cr o fl 3 t that time period? don’t remember cifically, I hada versation with that or that person, but if a temporary duty J wu ct © i) Kh EFTA00060084

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Ww co Ww fee} get into this oO 113 EFTA00060085

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Ww WwW fee} think -- ion by -- as: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ho was in from the the So, that wh So, that would have o would hav your 6:00 would have 114 EFTA00060086

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115 4 a : And who was that? 5 HS: 8c move the inmate. 6 ee: And who was that? oo Hed 5 a. 5 a] ct b 3 D was he working from? was working from 8:00 to Oo Ww fee} Lieutenants was given their commutes. mmuctling EFTA00060087

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ow oO wo wo uw 116 two hours out. So, for them to come from various parts of New Jersey, or Long Island, you know, as a consensus, we said, hey, I will continue - because that was the previous Administration, the previous Captain put that in for those guys. a : So, you know, with those conversations, you know, with the Lieutenants, I said, I will keep that. I said, you know, you try to do things - where I came from, we didn't do those things. ee : You know, as far as that, you know, the Captain ran his shifts, whatever the shift was, you did it. But when I came to Brooklyn, that was a common practice in Brooklyn. You know, the Captain would allow them - when I was the Lieutenant - would allow us to, you know, to work those shifts. And due to, we’ve got staff that commute far out. So, that was just an incentive to get these guys to come to work. a : You know? EFTA00060088

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Ww 117 | tti‘ésSS But the times for tt the SHU staff, that’s the actual hours that’s at So, they would have to do something. all of those individuals about EFTA00060089

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co Ww have been on a : For that quarter. So once got the guidance from a. of what wanted me to do, I did it. can't tell you, watch Sure. now know and the cell was the first ones I that i) EFTA00060090

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Ne] WwW 5 guys would have 6 No. They wouldn’t have I don’t know when the inmate o ' ft) Ph rt ct om @ H 7) ct ritution, but what urt line comes out, I believe that the QO inmates leave the institution - supposed to - 1 between 6:00 and 8:00, or 7:00, you know, let’s 2 say 7:00 to 9:00. So, between that time, those 3 and then, what time did 20 cell mate 21 Right. known. EFTA00060091

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Ne] WwW instance, he did know. mate, and he coming back. a : He probably wouldn’t - but -- he should hav coming - he EFTA00060092

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121 N No ee : No one later informed me that I didn't WwW oO QO Oo co if} ct wo Oo a fw = n oO During the court, Epstein is in Attorney visiting all day. ould have even 9 Epstein is in 0 mate is not in 11 went to court. 2 made aware that he 3 a cellie until when they went to in the cell. think it would have been - in this instance - ‘s] 7 when do you think it would have come 8 WN: 8s far as knowing he didn't is] wo > fy 0 wu a o ~ He o ve known o w didn't come. That should ve been on im watch. , who was on evening watch? EFTA00060093

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1 a : So, evening watch, well, 2 well, well, well, well, well let’s see here. And who to? that would have wo All right. told you, and would He would EFTA00060094

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Ww Ww fee} a. But guess what? I was there. I didn't leave that night until, like, 8:00 something. I was there until 8:00 that night. make rounds that or didn't I. I don’t a : But I know I didn't that institution until late that a : Had went to court. No. re rt he went to court, let alone wasn coming k yversation EFTA00060095

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Nh No 9 wo Ne] WwW wo with, with regard to the Correc talking to people in don’t talked remember that, hey, I remember certainly have told them? So, Charge. Who else the number two. was was know all three Working int you’re talking to people, You had Tova And then, you had | need for a cell mate. if I - shifts, e unit? I don’t - there’s certain that I to some people, That’s watch those names. So, but | | should have on that day? Noel. 124 EFTA00060096

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wo wo 96 WEE: «Tova Noel. correct? those three it ultimately the Officer-in-Charge respon ibility, or should have these other two - || and Noel - have D taken any action? Should have they contacted anyone? a : Well, if you’re walking, and you’ re doing rounds in the unit, you would see - especially at the 4:00 count, because you need to know where all of your inmates are - so, at that 4:00 count, and where is Epstein? Epstein is at - he’s in Attorney visiting, o o Q wu c n o he m going to get a count slip from visiting, right? : Mm-hmm. ME: here is at court. Then somebody should have called R&D 7) out yes i (Phonetic Sp. *01:45:06). Where is this guy Somebody should have called R&D. That EFTA00060097

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ow oO ~—] wo 10 12 13 14 126 means the Lieutenant would have been notified because you can't clear the count. Where is the inmate at? a : So, if you can't clear the count, where is the inmate? The inmate went out. But it’s now 4:00. But I did say that sometimes inmates don’t come back on the 4:00. So, they call that “ghosting.” Supposedly, he’s supposed to be at court. But did you get a count slip from court? No. When he leaves out of the institution, that’s on them. So, that means the institution number should have came down minus one. a : So, you believe that the SHU should have known by 4:00 p.m., during the 4:00 p.m. count? a : Yeah. a : All right. And let’s - in this case - if they didn't do a count at 4:00 p.m., should have they somehow known otherwise, after that? So, would someone have contacted them and said, by the way, this guy is not coming back? a : Right. So, that means tha cr ’ EFTA00060098

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Ww fee} that the 4:00 count, when you going through the a : -- called them? to court, he’s not coming like I told t come back. The go 127 EFTA00060099

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y time you’re going to know is when these 2 guys always come back from the court line by sometimes they don’t come Now, what time was their 8 shift? Was it 4:00 to midnight? wo o ) talking about, 3 midnight. 5 midnight. At that point, if it was recognized 16 that there was no cell mate and he needed a cell mate, could have a - if they did contact 8 the Ops Lieutenant, Ops Lieutenant did contact wo is) c - could have an inmate been assigned at 20 that time, or would have had to have wait the ine] f 5 oO Se rt a w N nN . Well, what I would have done, 23 if I would have known right then and there that 24 he didn't have a cell mate, he’s already in 25 Attorney visiting, right? EFTA00060100

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wo wo So, I would have went on ahead. All right. Keep him in Attorney visiting. I would have called - guess who I would have called? I would have let the AW I would have called the Warden. I said, hey, today. We got to And plus, I wa he got released didn't go back, let’s say, hey, cell mate. would have there. Right? suicide watch. supervision. So, I quarter this member on it, look, Or Reyes vet another 7) I would have been, said, because I guy which would ft this guy went out the WAB didn't come back from court. guy. Okay. from Attorney visiting, and when they went to the - this dude - he don’t have a like, got R&D Mm-hmm. Because I can't put him on I can't put him on close would have said, hey, right now in R&D, put a staff would have been Fox One. EFTA00060101

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WwW suicide a un staff til we on Fox Let me watch. member One. call down get hima Put a the Ward What Oh, - I would h there, I member down gotcha. and watch this guy, And he would 7, put you think that = ies) oO EFTA00060102

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Ww Ww you , again made a ’ EFTA00060103

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Ww and back on the r p.m. count were both would have Correct we mec on talk to anything Can we take a break? the above EFTA00060104

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oo wo wo = ies) Wo on. It is currently Tuesday, June 15, 2021, at k N Oo a ue} -m. We just took a short eight-minute break. And a. I remind you that you are under oath. Thank you very much for your cooperation with this matter, and it is rt oO voluntary, and you can choose not answer, or leave at any time. oy be bh kK b. Q o rt u is = S wu rt = o are talking about before, before we move on, I just want to go back to, so, you said, if || knew he dropped the ball, if the SHU staff didn't do their counts at 4:00 p.m., and at 10:00 p.m., that’s when they would have next found out that Epstein was without a cell mate, and they would have, then, reported it up. a : Mm-hmm. ee : Correct? What did we want to follow up with on that? a : If a notification came from court that Reyes wasn’t coming back, who would have got that notification? a : That notification would have came though R&D and through the Control Center, EFTA00060105

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ow oO wo wo which, the Control Center would have updated the count in Sentry, to reflect if the inmate was physically in the institution, or was still out in court. So, it would be contingent to look at that Sentry roster, which would be the E-1, that the Control Center had created for those counts, to find out if Reyes was still on the count, as physically being in the institution, or out the court. ee : Okay. And if R&D and Control did get that notification, did they have to notify the SHU? a : Yes. Because then the count would be off. ae : If, let’s just say that that notification came between 1:00 p.m. and 3:00 p-m., who in the SHU would have got notified? a : The OIC. Which would have been - for day watch - it would have been either QR o- EE. a : And what should they have done? ee : And with that one time, they would have reflected on - inside of Sentry, and also, they would have known that the inmate was EFTA00060106

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S) Nh Nh No N WwW wo 7) WwW wo - oO rt its] n fw 2 o WwW not physically there, and they would have had the Operations Lieutenant, t this t come back. So, that means somebody would had to make sure that the institutional count was right or wro ee : So, in this instance, if || knew, who would have been the one that would have informed him? a : That would of the - would that | worked in the capacity of OIC because a lot of those Officers would say, oh, notified him, but then, I also said didn't take any action. Okay? Now, let’ is] next SHU staff comes on board, should they to report the matter up the chai EFTA00060107

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1 : | 2ven though the SHU that 2 replaced them already made the notification 3 that E was without a and needed 4 a new one? 5 WN: Because their count would 6 have been off. 7 Ps: ie And then, wouldn't ha 9 know, when they brought him 0 visiting, that the cell was 11 empty. 2 ee : Right. And I'm not ly talking about the count right now. WwW 4 What I'm saying is, like, if the SHU did notify 5 , is required to have a cell A cell mate is gone, we need to get 8 20 action. Should the wo er takes any 22 Hey, Epstein still hasn’t been re- 23 cell mate. 24 EFTA00060108

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Ne] WwW Didn't do it. 8 cell. We said, Ne] c WwW But if he didn't come back by somebody d have said 5 something. further from, now we go from evening watch to 8 now morning watch, we’re on 10th, where 9 Noel an Or are now in 20 79 EFTA00060109

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= ive) e) been in the tion that all of the N c 5 p. rt = Pp. rt ion rt og oO wu w wi co =] ue] WwW im S a wu ct i) 17) =a w o or oO oO 3 wu aQ ie] Oo c o ct oO jon Hh (2) a] oa Me the previous wasn’t 7 a.em., 3:00 a.m., and 5:00 wo 11 a : No, no, no. I'm not saying 7) 2 that. What I'm saying i 3) ct , they would have not that that inmate didn't come back from WwW an oO z 3 4 court, if it wasn’t addressed on either at day 8 would just - can't be responsible for countin Q was housed in that unit, between wo J fw ¢ a 3 3 fu ct o ifs] = ry) U 20 the hours of 12:00 to 5:00 a.m. Becau nN ct S oO n 0) wu a] @ ct S 0 QO i?) Gc =] + if) | bt oO ct n b i?) 12] tan EFTA00060110

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Nh Ww it lo midnight, -, and then, is this the rounds? fe) K 0D wu J 4 ) fu + n ct a oO QO rt iat fe) be I’ll take this. 0) So, here are th counts from August 9th, from 4:00 p.m. through ww 10th, through 5:00 a.m. 6 a : Now, we have reason to 3 20 e ing that 21 not done, and the 10:00 wasn’t done? EFTA00060111

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Ne] WwW at the 12:00 a.m. count, you’1l notice 5 there is a discrepancy. There is one inmate off o ct Ss om by 0) fe] rh Hy o ie] 5 K 12) - io fu un o 0) pe) Le} ie) c ad 1) 9 there a way to kind of 0 look notice, all right, 1 this ed up then, or a way 2 to kind of tell that these weren’t conducted by 3 just looking at those documents, or noticing is gone by 1:5 8 there a way to tell that on th ifs] oO re? wo Because you’ve got it right ine) > o a] i) This will tell you who count EFTA00060112

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wo wo 2 N ho N a a : And that’s from Small. He was one of the receiving and discharged that was probably working on August a : So, she would know who was still out at count. So, that means, Operations Lieutenant violation. 50, this document that 7) - rt you’re looking at, it looks like - what is - like, third page on there? a : Yeah. That they should have - because you’ve got right here. Clark. U igned work assignments. So, this inmate Clark. This saying he’s out at court. a : -- so now, our count is minus one. But we know where he is because he’s wu oO still out at court. Reyes, that count - so, if he went out to court, let’s say we wa at 88, let’s just say. When he went out to Clark went out, we would have EFTA00060113

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ow oO ~—] wo 142 went down to 86. But guess what? Reyes drops off the count. How? He got released. Where is the -- ee : So, if he was released -—- a : -- form that should have came from the Marshals back to us, saying that he got released. ee: So, between the 10:00 a.m. count and the 4:00 p.m. count, would there be a form in there showing that he was released? a : There should have been. ee : That should have been generated from the Marshals because it’s a transfer order. You heard of a transfer order? Every time an inmate goes off, if you’ve got ten that went out to court that day, that’s that transfer order. Whatever the disposition of those inmates are, okay, boom, ten went out to count, eight coming back. Okay, where are the other two? Okay. I got this guy that’s still out of counted, and he’s at court. He’s still at whatever, at this timeframe. Where is Reyes? There should have been a transfer EFTA00060114

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ow oO oo wo wo 143 receipt signed by the Marshals by the staff that was at the New York court over there, the people that handle the inmates, that transfer order should have been sent back with whoever was transporting the inmates, and brought back i] to the institution to say that this guy never came back. ee: So, that third page that you’re saying, though, that that was a violation that the Operations Lieutenant didn't sign? ee : Would have that been || or a. at that time? ae : Because all of this stuff, a : So, what the Lieutenants are supposed to do on their shift, is supposed to, when they make rounds in Control, they’re suppose - because we’re supposed to take a count on every shift. Especially in the off- hours. So, before Epstein, that was a K it) ponsibility. On the off-hours, you will be iad esponsible for taking the count. So, that EFTA00060115

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ow oO wo wo 144 evening watch guy would take that 10:00 count. Right? Or somebody would take the 4:00 count. So, the Operations Lieutenant or the Activities would normally go down and take the 4:00. They would go through the paperwork for that day, up to 4:00, and you would sign all of the forms. Like, if somebody checked out keys, restricted key forms, Operations is supposed to sign it. ae : If a transfer order receipts comes back, you’re supposed to sign it. Whatever happens on that shift, you’re supposed to sign the count slips. That form, right here? That should have been signed by the Lieutenant. a : Okay. So, these forms that we’re looking at 4:00 p.m., there is a number of signatures that are missing? HE: «8d should have that been the Lieutenant, as in - it looks like a. or -? ee : Official preparing count, official taking count. Those are going to be - so, the person that was taking that count would EFTA00060116

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No WwW No WwW wo have been the OIC, then the person who actually was there as a Lieutenant that was taking the it in red. count, normally we the Lieuten Now, the SHU calls - And then, while the Officers ar 1) doing the count. > 92 ~«-T4 12, %73, 74, | ti‘ és And in this case, when you look at the 4:00 p.m. though, you’re seeing that there was no Lieutenant oO that? fre} wu Q i] wu it) should EFTA00060117

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Nh Ww ww whe eV -- slip. who was orney Now, that was right that? should are the visiting. the be EFTA00060118

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Ne] WwW Ne] WwW wo - for the ones that you just put an initial by c, which ones it is c that would have been conducted at the think it’s Zulu , ZA and ZB are the two got Food you *00:12:11) Attorney visiting. That’s Kilo India. That’s court. Kilo Zulu. Y ifs] So, Zulu Alpha would h been that, and then, that would have been Ten South. - Charlie the SHU. Like, where? Not - I don't know if EFTA00060119

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Ww Ww fee) total ecific to ry the 4:00 count. is) is considered SHU, but I'm just those that All right. a. and Tova Noel, And now, what is EFTA00060120

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Ww Ww count wasn’t two that or would a : This would be the whole Unit. ee : The whole Unit. - the OIC, was in the Unit. ff, and t that they EFTA00060121

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oo wo o wo ine) oO ine] NS — ine] uw 150 oO fh a : You know what I'm saying? they feed us, they feed the ranges. They monitor the ranges by doing the 30-minute rounds. So, the OIC has the key. So, those other three staff - the number two, the three, and the four, I believe - they’re supposed to do rounds, feed, do - issue cosmetics - do whatever they need to do as far as the normal operations inside the unit. o, if nobody counted, that means who count, who help in counting in Ten South? For the five guys a : Because I believe the Lieutenant is supposed to come up. Normally, the Activities will go up, I believe, and do the count in Zulu Bravo. So, that means that one of the Lieutenants would be up in the unit when the count was going on. ee : So, in this case, a Lieutenant should have actually been present? ee: Which Lieutenant on that date would that have been? EFTA00060122

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Ww 151 a : So, that would have been -- that would hi: South, I beli a while. the count at se I'm looking, had Ten South number two was G. a. So, G. | probably was up there doing property. four, or EFTA00060123

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Ww wo 152 = oO P- it) And then, I'm ith number two is || ia. which is the that time, I was hiring to go working in the SHU at that point? I think he know, that - e I don’t think he work that, the number one. So, fe was day watch. So, that means EFTA00060124

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he Ne] WwW t wu 0) || probably came in l a : So, fT probably did the count because || didn't get there. And now, he was notorious for that. them going to i om Hh Kh 1) ie] rt though, the one for the overall SHU, = wi Lg EFTA00060125

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Ww Zulu Alpha. who was would -- that it wasn’t conducted. any kind how we did this guidance out -- doing rounds accurate round 154 EFTA00060126

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 155 talked about the timeframe that goes between the 30-minute rounds. So, like, let’s say it’s 11:00. You should do a round somewhere between 11:00 and 11:30. You understand? a : If it’s done at 11:29, that’s fine. But you should be doing it within that 30-minutes because it has to be irregular. So, you can't put on there and said, I did rounds at 11:00, 11:30. ME: 22:00. a : 12:00, 12:30. You know, you can't do it like that. So, let’s say, you know, you’re feeding up there, you’re up t here feeding, but that round is not going to be - because you’re not monitoring, you're doing a service. Just because you’re on the range, that means you did a round. A round is physically stopping what you’re doing. So, if I'm feeding during the time it’s supposed to, I'm supposed to do a round, secure the slot, I go to the beginning of the range. One, two, five, seven, nine, 11, whatever, whatever, whatever. Document the time I did the round. Then go back to feeding. It’s not while I'm up EFTA00060127

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R wi i=) 1 there. Okay, I’1l feed the range, it took me 2 seven minutes, seconds to feed a round. 3 And so, that’s telling me that you did a 4 regular round for a hour, one hour, because you for 45 minut 5 was up there No. Did you do a 6 round? 8 a : Did you - can I physically watch you go from cell to cell? That’s a round. 0 HE: «Bt what about - so, can a round can't be a count - but can a count be a wo 2 round? WwW 2 12) 5 you’re doing a count at 4:00, 16 do a round at 4:( Because if I go up there at wo rt] 20 4:00, if I go - let’s say I start 4:00. At 21 4:00, that’s going to be that round. You 22 understand what I’m saying? Because count, I'm 23 taking accountability of the unit, so, if it 24 takes probably two or three minutes a count, 25 that would be 4:03 that I count in that range. EFTA00060128

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9 3 30 to 5 I to round, in 7 é he SHU not con cing rounds? SHU not 3 0 If 1 SHU anything about that, of 7 a : To sit down there and monitor ) | | a] ° 5 Q a7] 21 : -- I just mean, like, had EFTA00060129

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wo o ine) Oo wo ine] until after the Epstein thing, we had to monitor the camera footage of what the SHU staff did, and I was appalled to what they were doing on the off-hours. So now, after the fact, are you aware if any of these counts were conducted or not conducted? I was not made aware that no count was conducted because I do not monitor camera footage of the staff -- No, I'm saying after -- so, I wouldn’t know. -- no, I'm saying after the fact. So now. Now, I know, and I was - and again, when I had to monitor the footage per the new directive that was put out for the Central Office, and the Captain would have to HU footage per 2] monitor X amount of hours of week? Even after we had the situation with Epstein, staff wasn’t still doing it right. But in the - what I'm asking is - in those instances, do you know if the 4:00, the 10:00, the 5:0 0, on these August 9th and August 10th, do you -- EFTA00060130

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Ne] WwW WwW a : I would have would you know if they were or tt conducted. that were assigned to the morning from ti did not do rounc p.m., that watc h time they walked until the time that the cell. I think wh referring to is the August 10th -- I jing Au would know at you’ g that EFTA00060131

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Ww | ve didn' you didn't 1 | tti‘iai‘éwl All right. And no one EFTA00060132

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1 WN: Nope. So, 1:50. If they was - like, I remember, I told n | ct 7 fu ct bP + ie) 2) 3 oO ie) Oo c + wu is ct is) 5 ju rt a i?) wu lly, from R&D. the X, Y, Z inmate won't be returning, 5 so he needs to bring his rt 8 guarantee, on that Sentry paperwork, that was 9 so, that 0 S generat 1 on the 8th - no, the 8th for the No io rt og . I know it didn't ha WwW So, my question -- What does WAB s With All Belongings. fea] a Huh? wo fee} -- WAB stands for With All 20 Belongings. Right? 22 a : So, and here’s my question i) a Hh 2) Ki 13] c re th Oo Fh fh 23 r you. icer | was aware of that Mm-hmm. ine] uw EFTA00060133

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Nh No N N WwW wo WwW wo ie] Ww -- he would be made aware by He would have been made by mw Re o w ct fu fh hh a : Well, the only one I could - te because he’s not on our roster, he’s not Correctional Services - I can only go by this. a : Ms. Small. a : Ms. Small. Okay. I think Fh fad Oo =) \ So, that means s!} rt a oO K 0) wu iad ie) Gc 5 a iN c oO @ Q w co a) @ H 0:00. I don’t think - on the weekends You understand what I'm 10:00, saying? a : So, they didn't stay past 10:00. should that Control document EFTA00060134

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wo Ne] WwW wo Nh No = oO Wo that point, that 4:00 p.m. count, that out - what is that? The last column, what does that ee: Which one, si a : The out count. The out count shouldn’t have shown 1:00 for the SHU. it would have Right. know what I'm Because that means that out count from the was Epstein popping up on another column over e? Under attorney It should have Is there an Attorney -? visiting. At - check the first or second EFTA00060135

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Ne] WwW Ne] WwW wo column. . kav 's cee ATTY on it. there was a total on the - a of three inmates that was out at Attorney, during the 4:00 p.m. them, did one of was Zulu Alpha. they that point, re showing that was for - is out inmate count, wh possibly, that it’s ioning Efrain , then? EFTA00060136

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Ne] WwW Ww wrong. wasn’t goin en So, com d ha column, it for Zulu Alpha. been t that this i is) ald have bee got a notification at ing back Correct that E-1 document is Now, if J told g WAB, and Epstein would upon arrival point? EFTA00060137

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Ne] WwW o of time, what we talked about 3 i) ans they would n cell mate? And -- , they let i dropped the ball. done it would EFTA00060138

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1 time. No WwW All right. And - I think what 5 said, though, is during morning shift, 6 dark hundred to or I think wouldn't have WwW 4 po @ le counts 5 they 9 like, if 20 had a con ation at 12 with t counts s>nant about the fact that 22 are off, re-do - or was it 10 ee : It’s midnight. EFTA00060139

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a oO B ' ke now -— from Ww So, she wasn’t (Indis wo 22 a : On August 10th? EFTA00060140

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Ww 9 e we know what we 2 a : What is the count on that? want To fee) 9 20 21 the and the 22 mistake, what was the -- EFTA00060141

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Ww count again. the Lieu WwW uld have EFTA00060142

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Ne] WwW wo 171 a : I can't - I'm not going to when I don’t know a : But I will tell expectation is that Supervisor - C Services - a Lieutenant, on a bad count will go to the and will obse claims that, the said count. count, and calling in titutions count is going to be bad, which -- a : And then, then that -- -- that is the worst thing EFTA00060143

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ow ~—] wo 10 12 13 14 a : -- besides the inmate - it’s three things - an inmate died, your count being off, or an inmate escaping. Those are the big things right there. If your count is bad - because that’s what we get paid to do - we’re the masters of count, that’s what we do, accountability of inmates, in a Correctional setting. That’s what you do. That’s what you’re paid for. So, you call me, as a Lieutenant, and you tell me, hey, LT., we keep counting the unit, and the unit, and the count is bad. So, the next thing I'm going to tell you, give me some staff up there. I want a standup bed book. ee : So, if they say that -- a : -- so then, I'm going to identify each inmate by their face, and their cell assignment, to get the count. ee : So, what if they say, we're off by one, but we know where that one is? That one is over there. And then, the Lieutenant responds -- ee : But they know -- to go verify where that one staff is, you redo = ~l No EFTA00060144

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1 sense? 2 ee : No. t I'm telling you is 3 it was supposed ven if th we wrote down wo Zz 1] i] 0 73 on the count slip, but that’s 1 our guys we’re counting for is 2 at -- WwW wm & Oo R&D. And -- fee} wo a : So, what if the -. one in F = ~l Wo EFTA00060145

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 So, the policy is, the Lieutenant is on there, I'm going to watch you do it, and so, that’s the second count. The third count is the standing bed book count. That I used the bed book cards, and I go cell by cell, and I make the inmates say their name and number, and I physically identify them by their face. ME: 81 int. ae : If that don’t work, all of this stuff is supposed to be annotated in the log, that bad count one, bad count two, SHU reports bad count three. Bed book count was identified. The next thing would have been, was to go back through the prior counts to see of the movement, of who was in or out, because if your count cleared here, at 10:00, you only had one out of the unit, which was Epstein. When he came back, that means your count should have went from - if it was 72 here - that’s telling me that it must have been 71. At - boom. So, it was 76 -- a : Is that the 4:00 p.m. count? ee : -- yeah. It was 76. Then, at the 10:00 count, on the 9:30 count, it was 73. So, where did those three inmates go? 174 EFTA00060146

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wo co wo Where did those inmates go? there count to clear. where they went is it, we TRUSCOPE (Phonetic Sp. *00:34:52)? Is t1 where we would have to find the TRU - most - Sentry is proof, all-proof. essing with the numbers You would Okay. So, somebody was in in order for the to find out ct rt oO o go in Pp im 2 you could go in supposed to be full- So, Sentry. But it’s only as good as the people that’s putting the information in there. Sure. And are the SHU the people that are putting the information in, or 7] it the Control Center? is what happens. In theory, you’ve got - when inmates come back from court, and they do the transfer orders, and it goes down to Control, update those inmates coming back in. R&D is supposed to Center gets the transfer order, and they’re verifying. Any time any internal m ement is = ~l uw EFTA00060147

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Nh No N N WwW wo WwW fee) wo No Ww the OIC is of a unit, like SHU, it. If a Case Manager ounselor, moves They’ re supposed to (Indiscernible to make the appropriate ee: So, looking at these, do All. of them? all bad. All bogus. right. The Control Center, R&D. Can a person do someone i if] I know Say, on, and I'm going 176 EFTA00060148

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wo wo allowed to do that, or -- have to get eyes on them? amount of inmates that are in their unit at rt that time. | tti‘iai‘éwl All right. Let’s keep going on this. Thank you for that. That’s hugely helpful. So, “Inmates’ cell mates are moved for various reasons, including but not limited to an incident in the cell, visits to court, legal library, medical, and recreation. On Friday, August 9, 2019, Epstein’s cell mate, had court. It would not be uncommon for Reyes to be out of his cell for an extended period. Epstein had an Attorney session that day. Epstein’s Atto 5K ney was processed into the facili if] in the morning, and Epstein wa brought down to the Attorney room. And you said that that was pretty much seven days a week? With Epstein. yo was not notified EFTA00060149

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ow oO ~—] wo = ~l o that Reyes was released from court.” And again, on that note, would have been the Ops Lieutenant that would have been responsible to tell you, for instance -- ee : -- if someone heard -- a : If you would recall, he should have - because he know the - he knew the expectation. a : So, by our previous conversation, they knew the expectation. But again, they chose not to follow the playbook. ee : Okay. “Typically, if an inmate is likely to be discharged or transferred following court, their property was retrieved from their cell, boxed and secured with a property form, by receiving and discharged staff. All items are normally accounted for, and inventoried. In order to enter the SHU, all staff not assigned there must identify themselves and sign a logbook, and then be physically escorted by a Correctional Officer. Alternatively, the staff can pick up inmate property at the Unit door. EFTA00060150

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 179 A Correctional Officer assigned to the SHU would have been aware that Reyes’ - or any inmates - belongings were removed. At this time, the Correctional Officer should notify a Lieutenant, who would in turn brief a. | was not notified that Reyes’ belongings were removed. | advised that if he had known that Epstein was without a cell mate, he would have likely put Epstein on psychological observation.” But now you’re saying you probably would have put him off -- a : I would have not put him on psych obs, because I can’t. HE: «Right. You would have put him in Fox -? a : I would have probably put him - if he was already - if I would have known, between those hours of 1:50 to 4:00, I would say, keep him in the Attorney conference, because guess what? I’ve got a staff member right there. And where he was, there’s a room here, so we normally kept him in these first two rooms. So, you could see him. So, I would just say, hey, just have somebody stay there, and I would have hired somebody. I would have EFTA00060151

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1 hired anybody. I’11 pay you overtime to sit on 2 this guy until I got him - I would have kept 3 him in Attorney conference, right there - until 4 I got him a cell mate. I wouldn't have had to 5 put him on psych - you’re not - that’s not - I 6 apologize - I can't do that. 7 HE: 81) right. 8 where you said you would have likely put him -- 0 a : -- that’s not correct? 11 a : No, I wouldn’t have done wo hat’s - because like I 5 in my earlier statement - if it would have been 16 after the hours of operation, let’s everybody - at 8:00, when he went back to the 8 cell in SHU, and because I was still there, I wo would have said, no, put him in R&D. Because I 20 got R&D staff there until 10:00 21 A 22 a : I would have called the AW. 23 would have called the Warden. And 24 unfortunately, we would have the - somebody 25 would have to come in - and we would have been EFTA00060152

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Ww wo Well, that you fF Somewhere in there. foun n wa 181 EFTA00060153

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Ww wo = co yo inquired d to did not a correct. you immediately said, y.- Yeah. Now, this worked a 4:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. shift on He would ha ee : And did he wo EFTA00060154

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1 ee : -- I thought we said on he didn't work. He wa Ww 7 from 4:00 p.m. to o K m fw 7 But, like, this thing, 0 like, when | saying he’s non-custody, 3 two - and the something. EFTA00060155

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Ne] WwW Ww io went in here an was inaccurate? ip promp temp promote him to i1l. have been not what -- EFTA00060156

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= co uw 1 Bt what 1 will -- ee : -- what it normally would No WwW until, I think it was when he got out 6 of non-custody and became a Counselor, I 7 believe that wasn’t until 2020. Not 2020. I 8 think it was the last part of '19, going into 10 20, or something like that. He was still on wo 0 Correctional Services. But the thing about 2 time you make a change, it tells you the date in) wu 5 oF rt =| @ 12) Fh ct 7 o change. So, let’s go here. 4 Time change. Activities Lieutenant a . 5 That was done on 08/03, .. who - you’ve got 16 to find out who i. was. is} 9 20 done in 9:09 a.m. Lieutenant. It was 24 a. So, ma took sick leave on that N a gy o 0) EFTA00060157

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2 leave. 1 | tti‘iai‘éwl Oh, and it would h: dy went in, at some point, and put - 7) ME I had nothing to 6 : I at that you Know, EFTA00060158

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wo something that to do, from the time you ability to do that? a : You unders will = oo J EFTA00060159

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Ww = co should be in ther 1) We’1l up to - so, just to that morning, at 8:58 time, it was , I wonder irate. question. Sorry. EFTA00060160

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wo .. or it’s what it was in And we did All right. the And it who the did bh co Ye) EFTA00060161

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= o had informed his Lieutenants 2 instructed them to pass this 3 message along, information among 2 mails with regard to -- 4 : -- er, you did send 1) u WwW 5 to act, and their duties and 6 responsibilities. that? o) o =] jon 3 om 20 verbally 21 informal and ible with whom EFTA00060162

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oo wo o wo ine) oO ine] Po - her claiming she didn't - if she’s claiming she didn't know, and if you didn't specifically tell her, who should have told her? Or how should have she known? How she would have known is, s that, when she did rounds, she would have saw those cards. No, no, no. Okay. So -- She would have known that these inmates are high visibility. And the guidance was already out, so, it was disseminating throughout the Unit. So, the staff was aware. So, of course, probably in, you know, with her, we didn't have a good relationship, but regardless of the fact is, is that I made the Lieutenants aware of my expectations. a : So, even though I might not have told her because she worked the morning watch shift, and by 6:00, she would be gone. I wouldn’t see her. Now, was that abnormal for her to leave before 6:00, before her shift is done? EFTA00060163

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Ne] WwW if she’s leaving before 6: minutes before, is that a problem? WwW if th o 5 relieving person gets there, because knowing an hour o ct + 1) i D +t m =] fu 3 + io) w Oo =I 0) be p oO cc rt 1) =] v rt " Q e) 5 1) 7 early. Some Lieutenants come ten, 15 minutes 8 early. It’s just whatever -- o 20 . Sometimes the D 21 Lieutenant has to work late, b i) cause they h 22 an incident, or they have administrative duties have to finish after their shift, which is the EFTA00060164

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10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 193 SHU, 30-minute rounds need to be completed consistently, at non-uniform intervals, within a 40-minute timeframe. The purpose of these rounds is to ensure that good order is being maintained, there is no suspicious activity, and all inmates are accounted for and responsive. 30-minute rounds are documenting in TRUSCOPE, which serves as an electronic logbook. After a round is physically done, the Correctional Officer can log into TRUSCOPE and press a button, certifying that the round was completed. Unfortunately, sometimes Officers do not complete a 30-minute round or exceed the 40-minute threshold. TRUSCOPE also documents from what location, terminal the rounds are logged.” ee : That’s right. ee : yo is aware of at least two terminals located in the SHU. The only way to determine if a 30-minute round was physically completed is to check the video surveillance footage.” ee : That is correct. Correctional Officers assigned to the SHU on EFTA00060165

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Ne] WwW Ne] WwW wo morning watch, at midnight. SHU One and SHU Two. SHU Two is responsible for completing rounds.” ‘re both technically responsible. Correct? would you know, a round. then round, I come back, you do thing when they do the count. counts count. rounds Now, thing with and rounds, like -- the with No, no, I'm sorry, aren't being conducted, does that also mean that everybody in t Unit is to blame? Not just -- EFTA00060166

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1 afterhours, that Lieutenant should go up there uy 5 o Oo on 7) oO 5 0 ct a oO count. WwW 4 is, if a round is signed off by one 5 in the Unit, nobo in 6 the Unit did it, and not just the person who 7 signed the round, but also everyone else is or m 8 al esponsible for that falsified round? its) a b Q J ct No H rt i) ct ioe o tH) uy 3 o thing for WwW counts? you said, like, me and you count, I know we fee} a Bp o =] rt 0 is =] ct but I sign that, and you sign it 3 -- 20 No, what I'm saying is -- 21 then we both -- 22 -- what I'm saying is, if Sign it, but we’re both ae : Right. No. You’re goi EFTA00060167

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Ww co Ww you didn't sign it. But if I said, if I didn't Lieutenant know. It’s a big -- situation. 196 EFTA00060168

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No All right. a : And then, on the morning ple in the unit. WwW ow you said bad come down 2 Okay. 3 ee : In the SHU. Let’s talk In the monitoring th I believe that Ten South count. 8 th. What about, 9 like, 0 , but we didn't 21 implement that until after the E gust 10th, S Ww re not counts —-—- EFTA00060169

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Ww wo = « simply a : Counting in Control. ntrol Re Zz was was down. He a : I can't remember his first name. a : No. He would be -- emplo ITECH (Phonetic EFTA00060170

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technician 2 notified that he was working on the in't know that of the TRU cameras on n oO 7 may have been out? 9 “Since the -”, and 0 uld have been - one responsible for that? is now out, how soon therea WwW uld he get that up and runnin No. If he was aware that the down ar not working, he 8 should contacted me, and then, I would wo immediately contact the AW and the Warden u because -- id in this instan EFTA00060171

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2 ee : All right. And would 4 who is 9 fF : He would wo 21 time, but now - for how lone EFTA00060172

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Ne] Ne] WwW wo remember. you know if a camera What camera? I know that there were is with th ame s because we had done a program review then, and there was WN: «s -- in the individual cells. then, the ao] 3 Q that was do on or something like that, that everyone was aware all I can remember. remember by bt b KK b Q =a ct to ra rt ie) e& Q Oo 5 rt range that Epstein was on, that camera was out or not? EFTA00060173

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That, I don't know that for - that one more discussion wou EFTA00060174

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1 have happened. 3 a : Right? I think that’ 4 date of (Indiscernible *00:55:07). a) rt a 0) Wo ' Mr. , notified | stem earlier that c =] Oo Bb rt n wu k o 8 week.” He’s saying that he left early 9 Thursday, about the camera 0 2m would have occurred. 11 a : Would have. So, he should 4 conversation. But you don’t know that there 2 wa : No. : Okay. Sorry. Because, like, in close out, wo 2] ta] # Fh rr a i] 4K oO Nh 1 it was for my - 22 go for blood work on 23 if an institution emergency, now, but 24 normally, on Thursday, I would leave early on - I would take a half a day. EFTA00060175

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Ne] WwW 4 was present at that meeting. 7 a : However, I know that ac going on during m ui) ra t time, which b for installin 0 know what - I can't remembering 1 it - but it’s a tem, because 2 tem was antiquated, so they was doing ot) Qo wu =} oO nn w repairs. So -- cameras of the institution. But yn, in certain areas he was worki ng on that. if there was a Warden? EFTA00060176

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wo No WwW wo ie] Ke u) u p ket rt < oO = an 2. fe iT] 0 ion ii) i] 5 I H mean, the Warden would have had a the ca Facilities which is a. It would have been dy, at that time, which would would down, and then, probably the Mana the Warden. there, but she had just discipline. So, that would have been the ver another staff. oO meeting with the executiv oO al Gi] so have taken place if U down on Friday? Would it have taken place on Frid well? a : That would ye been Friday, EFTA00060177

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No WwW WwW it have camera was down, a : There would have been an update because the person that falls under that, the contact, is a. So, the AW over wanted an So, was down because of - I think it routine maintenance that they was Lieutenants or camera was down? EFTA00060178

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don’t Ww No. That’s fine. w if it we wo or anything like EFTA00060179

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N cs) oo 1 receiving the phone call from | | on the 2 morning of 4 informed the Warden. -itution Du 1, and in the 3 3 ion.” What does 0 that mean by, “In the building”? Do you know? 11 a : So, basically, you know, it . 5 you know, people that we tried to notify, I WwW bunch of, wu 16 tried to notify. So, I think I notified, ~~] , of course. She notifies the 8 Warden. I notified the IDO. I said, hey, wo inmate dea h, they needed me comi 20 into the institution, because that’s one of rh 21 their off times, so they needed to be making a 22 - because they’re going to be responsible for making certain calls to the Region. I notified Nh WwW 24 the Chaplin, because Chaplin made sure, (Indiscernible *00:59:19) also, I believe I EFTA00060180

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Ne] WwW WwW I think FY or I may h a. the Attorney, for MCC. a : And I'm trying to think who i) _ 3) ct) i] be approximat screened in and retri third floor. the Attorney conference l< WN: So, all this stuff righ : a5 wy ma : So, y the building, I know the pr u basically, I walk EFTA00060181

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Nh Nh No N WwW = wu wo 7) WwW wo WwW 2) 3 m because what happens is, these things will c up missing, then you have no evidence. went to SHU. I got all of I knew where Epstein had been. I I took grabbed those logbooks. I his inmate SHU file from the Special Housing, plus all of the round she (Indiscernible “He could not locate Epstein’s inmate file.” Do wu file, but it had So, his actual file, yeah, it had a couple things on there, but it wasn’t anything in it. Eee : So, when this say edt “Not file,” you loca file, it was that abnormal? 210 EFTA00060182

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No WwW wo wo a : No. It is not normal. somebody removed things I don't it’s not normal? It’s not normal. No. think that from it? I'm not going to make know. I would just say, that’s not a normal instances, that being working as a former OIC, being a Correctional that stuff, that’s not stuff i What 7) usually in it would be his - all of t uff that we do on the inmat the expectations, the cell assignment things that the inmate is supposed the clothing issue forms. It there. It would be a - the SROs. It would also be the where Ps thology comes to see that those notes should be placed in there. there? And none of that was in EFTA00060183

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Ww wo wo ee : And where is that file d to be located had 212 EFTA00060184

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wo Lieutenant All right. But sir. That And who would be wouldn’t be to audit those Who would be -- you my ask the files. EFTA00060185

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Ne] WwW Ww a : And did you ask him where - rh QO ie) c K e) 0) a : He didn't All right. know -- No. No. I don’t remember But when I called him that versations with Sunday, because he was supposed to come to wo that Sunday. So, once he found out about the had called file? What are you talking about? I said, his 214 EFTA00060186

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WwW wo EFTA00060187

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wo Ne] WwW fee} wo ever provide any kind of -- a : Or he injured his leg. -- did he ever provide WS: mm. ss Hee: did provide something, but it was from and that was sent through - documentation, but -- a : -- I can't - I don’t - I'm not a doctor - so, I can't tell you what it i n ’ and I'm not going to call the doctor to verify if that was the situation, but basically, it said that he had a substantial leg injury that prevented him from coming to work. conversatio a : Oh, he came back - so then, EFTA00060188

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WwW October, November, December - I think he came December or Je a : Somewhere in that timefram a : So, he came back. And he ed it with him a : I had disc a : And tell me about those back, we had discussions that the staff, when | | D w =] roe O 8 o | I Q re) I H = re) rf be Q he would - me and i. o highly of him. EFTA00060189

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wo wo 20 N ras N Nh N a Nh Nh uw And he would talk, and he was saying that he was having difficulties with the staff, and other peers, because he, you know, the appearance was that he faked the injury, and -- ee : Oh, so there was rumor -- a : -- and not to be a part of what everybody else was going through, during and he was also getting it from the line staff. there anything that you know - I know he wasn’t ho ct Ss i) K wo rt 77) e days - but if there’s anything ct =) o 6 o ct hat he did wrong? wrong, I'm not going rt o say he did something wrong or purposeful, you know, to say that, you know, to cause the death of inmate Epstein. Of course not. I'm not going to say that. Hs: «22h, and I'm not saying that. I'm just saying -- a : But I'm saying -- a : -- this is, in my opinion, if I'm a third party, if I'm a third party - and N rar oo EFTA00060190

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I'm going to be honest - if I'm a third party, looking at this, somebody would say, I'm wrong. They would say, you failed to supervise your staff. You should have been auditing all of the paperwork. You should have been more responsive, or you should have been more responsible, and been in the unit more. You should have done more rounds. You should have did more training. You understand what I'm saying? a : But guess what? That’s not my purview. As the Captain, Security, I did this, this, that, and the third. But everybody has a job to do in a prison. ee : The Officers have a job, to count, maintain accountability, for the inmate population. The Lieutenants all oversee the staff, and make sure they’re doing their jobs right. And then, ultimately, me as the Captain, over the Lieutenants, I have to reassure that they’re doing their jobs right. But when you go back and you start going through fine tooth combingthrough documents 219 EFTA00060191

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S) Nh t Nh No N WwW wo 7) WwW wo WwW 4 hat you thinking that, you know, your staff ct are doing the right thing, and now you out that people are fudging documents, and ting documents that - or nting inmates that wasn’t in the institution. Well, in this instance, it sounds like somebody removed -- things that, can't believe this is happening. ee : So, if someone removed files, though, I'm assuming if they’re trying it would have 9th or the 10th. a : It would ha a : -- the 10th, as soon as they found out he pas HE: 8nd well, did a lot of that room, at fe b been -- was - at that time - it would have been - and it talking about for -- EFTA00060192

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Ww Ww unit, you walk in unit. good transiti that this is a map HE: «can you tell me what putting e D EFTA00060193

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Ww wo to figure out into Unit, my understanding is that there are the interior is what the a wu i a) rt w ce} K I tH fe) et 1] ke EFTA00060194

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Ww Ww fee} OIA number way in and out? I'm trying to 1g to figure out, this is L. Yeah, that’s EFTA00060195

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Nh No N N WwW wo WwW wo ie] Ww So, he was on L-tier, So, L-tier, it wouldn't be like this. And then, you would have had the ation, uw Offic i) r oO Fh th th 0) ce ns) Offi Qa @ ia ct wu tion. cabinet because the desks go around like 8 rn) n ct al] Ph rh | | ho ~) jen O ie) KR which, this would have been icer Station. And that’s going to the There would have been a file 7) ral Have you seen the video he Officer Station is. You’ re talking about when the The camera. The camera. -- so, that camera is by the And that shines from where the entrance of ZB, of -- ct a wu + a uy) K 1) right behind tt! EFTA00060196

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2 at’s what 6 s what I was 7 you. So, that camera - in essence - that 8 camera would be right there. So, it would be clearl Oo . that 0 showing that file cabinet, if we rev rt n ra ct binet So, that file c So, hopefully that’s o 6 better orientation. And then, the cell, I Jeffrey Epstein was When wu un on rm ul 5 0) a ct fs) something like that. -- it sounds like, was he wasn’t in the right cell. EFTA00060197

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N WwW wo 7) WwW wo Nh Nh WwW 24 He was in a different cell than he was assigned? a : You didn't know that? ee : No. Well, tell me about this. So, where -? So, is this the first time oO that he was ever not in the right cell? a : He was not in the right cell, sir. After we went back and we started looking that stuff, erwork in the right cell for six the wrong -- o, basically, he was | | w to this cell, he died in this cell. a : But for six days, he was going to the wrong cell? So, it wasn’t, like, just the one day he was found dead? Right. So, tt had him here, but it was inmates already over there. And then, you understand what I'm But he was found in this cell. ee : I don’t understand when EFTA00060198

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Ne] WwW Ne] WwW wo he was that? standing. a : Again, I don't know the layout. There’s got to be somewhere where it n i] kK o) f rt ie] 5 ct iy bh A G. Yeah. it should be J and L. he was found in one know why? EFTA00060199

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wo co wo N Nh N rs la Nh ine] uw N N oo a : They may have moved the inmates, but they weren’t changing the PP-34 transaction in Sentry. a : So, the inmates were moved, right? Physically, but the Sentr paperwork would never be done. moved, they just didn't follow with what their necessary paperwork? a : No. He was in this cell. have moved him in Sentry. They must have moved him, right? But he - when the Sentry assignment came up - it showed that he was ‘7 still remained assigned to that cell, instead U of him being physically found in this cell. like, it sounds, like, they were supposed to move him, they just never did the paperwork to say that he was moved? o, it’s not, like, I mean, I guess they technically put him in the wrong cell because he wasn’t technically igned to that, but the move was supposed to EFTA00060200

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1 happen, they just didn't follow with the 2 administrative part of it. administrative failure, is there any other 8 suspicion about the fact that he wasn’t in the 0 also, the 1 so much linen? 6 a : You get one, two, until you get two t-shirts, two boxers, two pairs of 9 Was that question 22 course. And what did they would I ia O a o like, I don’t - how EFTA00060201

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No Ne] WwW the time, sir. Because I will tell clean out it. And 5 went up there physically, 6 going in there, cleaning out the : I think I did i ct three or four times. WwW 7 | ti‘ aié‘ésll Well, would the staff do Lieutenant do it, or -? I don’t think Li 20 would do it. EFTA00060202

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Ne] WwW co Ww Now, is -. Kicking on the door. Is having those extra boxer: paraphernalia, did in Chicago. Tie that out the window, and the inmate had a rope. That’s why we don’t give inmates excess Now, as far as found out where ee : -- documents went? uldn’t find them. be ha a D a D kK v EFTA00060203

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wo wo es) Mo saying people that had acces to this room, was it just a flood of people at that point, coming out? a : Anybody that - the people who would be most would know about those fil oO if) would be Ee : The SHU staff. a : And the Lieutenants. a : Of course. | tti‘iai‘éwl And what would be in those files that possibly people wouldn’t want oO to see? mean, that would be in peopl them every about if the inmate - time the inmate is out of the SHU time, out of cell time, it’s annotated on the 292. When the inmate showers, when the inmate Ne Ww No EFTA00060204

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No S) wo WwW wo WwW would it be -- a : For a 24-hour period. ee : -- would these documents be missing because they were falsified, or because they might show something about the death of Epstein? a : It would show if he wasn’t taking meals. And they didn't report it. It would show if the inmate wasn’t afforded any outside recreation time. Or any out of cell time. But we know he w a) n’t getting that fu because he was going to Attorney conference. a : But those forms, no, th wouldn’t show that the inmate, you know, all of a : That’s why I'm just trying to figure out what would be the purpose of taking th file file was never updated? a : I don’t believe that. sibility the EFTA00060205

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wo wo 20 N ras N Nh N a Nh Nh uw anybody in SHU? And who would be updating Sunday. That would be the OIC. Every You're printing out all the 292s, then the file. you put them in one person Pp on morning watch would do that. The OICs. Normally, the OIC They would all of the 292s, print out and they would put them all in each file. th and August 10th, this know, at wo time, around the August who would have been responsible for those files, and printing those out, and putting them in? That would have been either hat would ct te 0) | rt ave probably been the staff - it would have been either, it would probably be Tova Noel. that would have been one of Noel would have Because she was assigned as the - responsibilities of the SHU One. But that would have been on Sunday. N ion) EFTA00060206

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ies) uw No 2 what I'm saying. Do you know, up until this 3 point, though? Like, so, if Almost HS: indiscernible ee : Would it be one person sonsible, or -- 4 he’s now there for, w 2) is there on wo | | 1 WN: Shes wouldn’t have known. Ss something, Ne] WwW Ic, that 6 a : She wouldn’t know that. 30, there’s that. stion for you. If he was fee} wo put on suicide wat observati would that file be him? with - and is put on the door. at 292, copy 1, that’s 07) EFTA00060207

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ow oO wo wo Nh ies) n to psychology, and the copy is supposed to go back to Correctional Services, to put in his file, to be maintained that, yeah, he was on suicide watch. This would happen. You know, you tell the story. So, yeah. Yeah. It would - all of that information would be in there. a : No. But I'm just asking, is it possible it went to psych observation or wherever that unit is, and never made it back? ae : It’s a possibility. | tti‘iai‘éwl But then, he’s made there since - but it should - like you were saying - it should have been constantly updated. So, from July 30th through August 9th or 10th, there should still be extra stuff in there. Correct? a : All right. So, let’s keep going here. “fl expressed to J that the staff admitted to her they did not complete rounds, the 3:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m. counts.” And that, so, and that’s all they admitted to, was those two? Not the ones prior to that? EFTA00060208

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Ne] WwW Ne] WwW wo a : Right. So, when I talked to phone, that’s what he told me on didn't do the rounds. HE: 81) right. entered Epstein’s cell without “Officer Thomas means that any time - Housing Unit - any | ti‘ aié‘ésll When he went in to do the life-saving measures, right? Eee : Now, do you know if - was mas and Noel, were they to walked in, or was she, like, down, she was off the H was on the EFTA00060209

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 238 by the time he comes down the tier, and he comes through - so, that means he didn't do a round, because he would have saw him. Right? So, that means he’s going around, because that’s how feed, as soon as we come on, we don’t go this way. We go this way. So, that cell that Epstein was found in, I think it’s, like, the second from the in. And so, it’s, like, the last cell, and then he was in that next cell. Right? So, they come around the whole area, and when he get to his cell, you observe the inmate unresponsive. So, what you’re supposed to do is, you call Control. Control, hey, I’ve got an unresponsive inmate. Send staff to SHU. Or I’ve got an unresponsive inmate, please state the medical emergency, send someone to SHU. | to Ops, hey, I need you come to the Special Housing Unit. Boom. You come up there. You’ve got a staff because you don’t know if it’s a rouse. You just popped down the door and just go in there. You’re putting yourself in jeopardy. HE: «Now, does this create suspicion for you, the fact that he went in there by himself? EFTA00060210

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: I’ve seen a lot of stuff at with security protocols. I’ve Ne] WwW i] 4 protocols. That instance right there, what he 5 did, wouldn’t be uncommon. 3 0 2 you need to wait until a Supervisor comes on a door in S$ Ww ct S 0) wo o 5 i) oO o cal 0 Kh 0) oO is 6 EE: «= -- be was found? Was he hanging? -- 8 a : I don't know how he was found. wo No? 22 WN: Don’t know. I didn't read report. I don't know. EFTA00060211

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Ne] WwW 5 didn't know if he was still hanging -- 6 a : I don't know. 7 Ee : -- he took them off. All 8 right. ‘i informed Po 0 Thomas admitted to ia. wo WwW ct o a] rt 4 | later confirmed was not true.” Was not 5 You confirmed that -? 6 He wasn’t released from SHU. from SHU. 8 ee : He was released? : Oh, okay. So, what P is that you guys EFTA00060212

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wo Ne] WwW fee} wo worded weird. “The purpose of the 3:00 and the 5:00 a.m. count is to physically count and confirm each person is in their cell. There were no entries oO Ss t a iad 1) 5 Pp Q Za rt Correctional Officers also have the option to ” document the count on a Although there are no electronic records of counts, hard copies mu have been retained. a : Is it odd that they didn't enter it into the TRUSCOPE that EFTA00060213

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 242 say, oh, I don’t have access to TRUSCOPE, but however, they are given hard copies of the count slip, which continues for the 24-hour period. MEME; 2iche. Yeah. a : So, you’re continuing to do your rounds. And then, at the end of the rounds, at the end of the week, this is how it’s supposed to happen. Because I actually put this in place, because that was one of the vitals that we had during our program review, which we got a hit on. At the end of the week, the Lieutenant is supposed to get them, and he will audit them, to make every sure all of your rounds was conducted in the 40-minutes irregular. If it’s not, that staff member is identified, and then, they’re given counseling. So, we’re trying to stop staff, you know, we try to encourage staff to do the right thing, but if they’re not, we’re trying to catch it on our level, before it gets reported out. So, even then, you know, the Lieutenants there was sign put up there that it wasn’t getting done on a regular basis. EFTA00060214

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No oo wo o wo ine) oO ine] NS — ine] uw Nh rs im) a : When I input, when I - and then, I have to counsel them, where is my stuff weekly? So, I’ve counseled them. I’ve g , counseling’s for that. either Thomas or Noel? a : No. I don’t know if I have a counseling on them. a : No, but before this incident, but no. ee : It says, “All inmate phone calls in the SHU are monitored, and inmates have limited access to phone calls. All calls should be recorded. | was not aware of any issues or complaints with Epstein, related to phone calls. On Saturday, August 10, 2019, ay phone call at approximately 7:0 told that Epstein made a 0 p.m. on the evening of Friday, August 9, 2019. It is uncommon to make an unrecorded phone call in the SHU, and | would advise against it because calls should be surveilled. Inmates can make a recorded phone call in the Lieutenant’s Office, where it is documented in EFTA00060215

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oo wo wo Nh rs a monitored logbook. In the SHU, Correctional Officers are not permitted to give inmate phone calls, but a Unit Task Team member, or the Chaplin can take the inmate to the Lieutenant’s Office and make a call. | is not briefed on phone calls in the SHU generally.” But in this case, you said that you did advise Ft that he could. And where did the call take a : Well, because I know between that time, we had installed a jack. a : In SHU, in order to do the outgoing calls. So, they could actually do those calls in Though, before the Chaplin, of course. So, if you had a SHU inmate, he didn't have to bring the inmate all the way down to the Lieutenant’s Office to do a call. a : So, there was a jack up there in the - I can't remember where it is. I'm sorry. ee : It’s near the shower room? EFTA00060216

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Ne] WwW Ww an. had Something like that. the yility t down to all that? a : The Institutional Di EFTA00060217

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 would be the Institutional - or 14s - would be the Institutional Duty Officer. Right? So, that means they go around, and they check all of the institutional - that they’re taking calls after hours, from Correctional Services. They’ re reporting certain stuff to the Region. They’re doing rounds in SHU. They’re doing rounds throughout the institution, in all the areas of the institution, and the accumulated report, which is given to the Warden for their review, about the daily operations of the institution during that week. Also, a part of that is SHU rounds. You know, they make sure that SHU rounds, everybody that’s supposed to do rounds within a week, you have to do them, or you get notified, and then you notify that Thursday or Friday, and you’re supposed to go do your rounds. By the close out. You only have to do it there once a week. So, that’s just part of the duties. But they bring the report, they create a report of the total operations. Any incidents that occurred. The counts in SHU, if they was bad. Anything that was going on in Food Service, or if they observed certain instances during the - in 246 EFTA00060218

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ow oO oo wo wo Nh rs ~I general population that should be addressed by the Unit Team or Correctional Services, and stuff like that. And so, that’s what they do. ee : Okay. And then, this concludes, yo wholeheartedly emphasized that he and his staff at MCC did their best to supervise, safeguard, and ensure the protection of Epstein and all inmates effectively. His hh staff is aware of the seriousness of the investigation into Epstein’s death.” ee : Now, as far as what I just read you, I know it was over the course of two hours, but - I mean, four hours - but is there anything else you told the FBI or the OIG that wasn’t included in this report? regarding? WN:—-_ stalked about that, when I, it was brief in there, but I talked about Lieutenant FY actions. Talked about that, one) she didn't do physical rounds in the unit because, as I said, I went into TRUSCOPE, because I wanted to know, because I did all EFTA00060219

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wo WwW 8 wo No No No WwW 24 institution, doing rounds because once I pull where reports up, the computer terminals are. And all of her the bad count, where she should have went - she en with the ad count, she been there, observing an actual What she should have done is then done rounds. and 6:00, she s betw uld have done a round in SHU. Well, any time after 12:00 a.m. EFTA00060220

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wo wo to 6:00, she should have done a round in SHU. There was no rounds. All of the rounds were done from the Lieutenant’s Office. think we do believe that she did conduct a round at 4 And then, potentially even came back, and checked in a little while later. UNKNOWN MALE: Dude, it’s been a while. I got a little busy. a : Thank you, sir. And so, if she did that one time, at the 4:00 a.m., possibly another check-in ten or 15 minutes later, would that be sufficed for whatever her duty and responsibility was? a : Well, that means, if you sat there and you did all your rounds, so, I did all of my rounds at the computer office. ee: And never went -- ae : In the computer EFTA00060221

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uw fo) 10 11 12 13 14 17 18 19 (Indiscernible *01:32:56). ee : -- and she never - she was supposed to go to the Control Center, and actually do the counts from there, right? a : Well, you’re supposed to take - yeah - one of the counts. So, normally, we would take the 3:45 count or the 5:00. Either one. You could take one of the counts. It don’t matter which one you take. You’ve just got to take one. The 12:00, the 3:00, or the 5:00. Right? You’ve got to take a count. You’ ve got to go through, go do a round in SHU. A round in SHU. So, you have to go, actually, go physically to the unit. And then, you’re supposed to do rounds throughout the entire institution. So, if I'm at the Lieutenant’s desk, and I say that all my rounds was done from this one terminal, because you’re actually supposed to go in, I provide it in card readers. ae: So, they’re supposed to - when they do a round there - so, they’re supposed to log it in from the unit? a : From that terminal. No wi o EFTA00060222

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Nh No N N WwW wo WwW fee} wo ie] Ww So, that means they can go on don’t have to go log into on the floor, you’re good. That’s the ee : And is that just to show that they are physically there, and they’re not you just can't just sit did all the rounds. a : I'm going to investigate the (Indiscernible *01:34:05) of what the Lieutenant rounds entails. want. Go ahead. (Indiscernible *01:34:09). a : I don’t remember if I apologize if you answered it alrea When a Lieutenant has to do a round ina - let’s its) ay I o t’s say the SHU, what do is) at (Indiscernible *01:34:19)? ed to go door ie) uw pan EFTA00060223

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wo co wo Nh uw No by door, just like I explained to you before. You’ re supposed to go in the unit, go on the tier, and you’re supposed to walk and look at every cell. just - to clarify - he wants to make sure it’s the Lieutenants that are also supposed to do that. a : Not just the staff. And is that - and again, for clarification, I apologize, but it’s so much, we’ve got to dissect, you know, we’re going to have to is] digest what you told us, and listen to it again - but is it every shift, a Lieutenant should do a : Yes. Every shift, in the 24- hour period, rounds have to be conducted by a Lieutenant. In SHU. HE: «8d so, if Lieutenants are telling us that they don’t think that that’s part of their duties, they’re supposed to do just rounds -- a : They’re wrong. it) taff, and is that EFTA00060224

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Ne] WwW | ' need to do 9 H ot .] bh o tal think th 0 2 do. If it says that 3 a round in the thei 6 an actual, not a round to check in with the staff, but a round -- wu | | ally looking at 21 a : -- round to walk around the EFTA00060225

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Ww wo should have Layne time? : So, don and August 10th the inmates. SHU. nd in ea AT But what, approximately Right. -- for Aug that means -- || or P| would have I don't know who would ha since we cially should h EFTA00060226

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Nh 1 PC unit, that was on the third floor -- Ww 4 doing a round in the PC unit. co them would have 4 : So would say, normally, 5 enant, I would 6 go ’ a. probably, EFTA00060227

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N WwW 2) wo WwW 8 wo the rounds? It any round, ise rounds are 30, it would be 30-minutes you talking about rrectional supposed to make a round in SHU. want to make sure we’re clarifying the d conduct oO 1] iad 0) conduct a count, or just of the regular 30-minute rounds? a : No. On every shift, within a 24-hour oO ra) riod, a Lieutenant is supposed t make a round in SHU. ee : A Lieutenant. That’s would s und. So, not -- a Lieutenant. EFTA00060228

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wo Ne] WwW fee} wo Admin. No. A Lieutenant. So, that’s why we get by on day watch because you Lieutenant in the unit, that’s going aid round. so, when -- to - at 4:00 - to the SHU, she should have conducted a round of the inmate -- a : Of the entire Unit. ee : -- not just checked in with the staff? should round. ay. And then, that’s time in - any time hey y in between any of the counts, at any time oO cr wn on ie) wu could have showed up and said, let’ round. EFTA00060229

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10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 a : And when she made that round, she just sees the person, she doesn't have to talk to them? a : You walk around, and if it’s at night, you’re going to take and shine your light in there, because you’re not doing a count. So, as Correctional Officers, you know, over the years, you’re taught to look at certain things in a cell. When I shine that light in there, I'm shining, I make sure, because normally inmates will move their foot or move their leg, or arm, or leg, so I would count flesh when I see flesh. I could check the windows real quick, or if they got stuff in hanging, that’s restricting my view, I could correct it at that time, hey, take that down, hey you, so and so, get up, take the covering down. That’s doing an effective round. And you do that for every cell in the block. HS: What about when the SHU fF is on duty, is he the one that’s doing the rounds? ee : Yeah. No. No, no. Officers are doing the rounds. So, when he does his rounds, it’s normally with a status report. No wi o EFTA00060230

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Ww Ww YO understand? It’s only rour when Ss on he’s that 5Q EFTA00060231

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Ww co Ww usly, he’s 3) He’s not there at night? Lieutenant is at night, always needs Oo a round. yu said Po didn't conduct a re talking about, she didn't t’s what you meant the inmate round? Right. something like And a : I heard it was hours b EFTA00060232

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Ww Ww fee} y- Where the s cell from t 7) ten inche ed in the map that you ju SHU drew EFTA00060233

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Ne] WwW H a 0 K D A s nothing that ability to 7 close, like, when we have an incident on the 0 a : -- we were giving medical, you know, if we’re doing anything that deals WwW off, so the inmat i) A 5 ee : Now, when the staff are 6 doing an overnight, the early morning watch, through 8:00 9 20 ee : So, no one is allowed to 5? 2 with the inmate specifically, we’1ll block those EFTA00060234

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Ww what? I’ll go and w a : I saw - I video. -h of them asleep? Do you know about how did. And you saw bo long th time. When I was EFTA00060235

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wo wo rounds. I would just stay walking in the unit. You know? It’s nothing wrong to get on the internet. But between that time you're on the internet, you need to shut it off, and Q fe) a fe) te k oO i] rt rounds. If that’s the way you wo wu wu = night, or do your OIC duties. Audit the - what y’re told to do - audit the bed book. Audit the - make sure all the 292s is done for the previous shift. You know, do all the stuff that’s mandated on your watch as you’re supposed to do, then do those functions. That will keep you awake. a a: a: a : -- yeah. a of these individuals, in this instance - Noel Yeah. If you’re doing the work. Were they allowed -- -- do you know if either or Thomas - were on mandatory overtime? going from evening watch to morning watch, and Noel was. I believe she was I believe that Thomas came into work that as overtime. ee: Now, Noel was mandatory No fea) EFTA00060236

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Ne] WwW Ne] WwW wo So, if you go here, it’s going to go to SHU One. Yeah. So, basically, if - yeah, it says, yeah - if she was SHU One, | had hired her on show if she was mandatory, or whatever. | tti‘iai‘éwl So, it could have voluntary? So, it doesn Okay. Great. And then I’1l turn it over to mail that was sent out on 07/30/2019, froma EFTA00060237

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Nh Nh No N WwW wo 7) WwW wo WwW recall getting that at all? going to be taken off a) needs to b if] i) housed with an appropriate inmate.” I probably did. Yeah. ‘re going to see all, like, the Lieutenants you and everybody in there. If your Lieutenants received this -- click on a - do they have, it) ro) wu im Q os) i) f jon say, like, do I want to a : No, they h | ti‘ aié‘ésll Right. click on it, they could still have read it? And it wouldn’t say he a oO wu o a : Mm-hmm. You would have to click on it to read it. saying? So, like, if I open an e-mail, it gives EFTA00060238

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- chon. 4 - in my e-mail at least - I 3 0) Ww co 3 a : -- I can read what it is 4 without actu ow bh b clicking on it. 9 actually didn't 20 actually read it? EFTA00060239

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tually may not Ww 3 at] Bb bh 4 fr : Mm-hmm. 5 That’s fair 7 that’s fair. I 8 mine, li I can actually don’t know i 9 =] 3 5 Pp t ) ) fu a re) Hh H K o wu is) c hh fe) K o un H i?) ry Q bh rt that’s what I'm 9 22 HE: 2 -- to you think that, SHU EFTA00060240

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Ne] WwW Ne] WwW wo staff. The AW read it. I'm just looking at all of the Lieuten Warden read it. Lieutenants that actually could have a : Yeah. Right here? Eee : Yeah. Just all on top. Toda your initial and date. EFTA00060241

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Ww wo vy we i) a ) ct S i) Rk nn) D — oO o K o ie] fe) KR Q n each one EFTA00060242

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Ww ee : Yeah. No. That’s - did anything ee: And then, just the duty Thank a : You’ re welcome. You mentioned that he was a : No. I don’t beli a : I mean, all the inme re pre-trial while 271 EFTA00060243

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ow oO oo wo wo No ~] No inmates, they have that right, to seek the legal counsel. a : So, it’s up to the legal counsel when they want to go see them. If they don’t want to go see them every 90 days, that’s, you know, but his legal counsel came quite often. ae : Okay. The phone call. The instruction you gave a. You told him that had made the phone call, record it. Now, if Epstein mentioned that he wants to make the phone call to a certain person, and if FY dialed that number, is he supposed to identify that that’s the person who answered the phone? a : Yeah. Like I told you before, that’s part of the process. So, that’s, like, if I call you, and you say, well, I'm so and so, and I'm his Attorney. Okay. Fine. a : Now, if that person wasn’t the person who answered the phone, what was | supposed to do? a : Then he was supposed to not give and allow him to - like, if he was trying EFTA00060244

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to call a male and a female answered the phone, if that meant, is so and so available? No. Then he wouldn’t have gotten - been able to speak to the female person that answered the phone. No. a : According to the records, I think Epstein mentioned he wanted to speak to his mother. ae : Okay. I don't know. ee : Is there, like, a list that they need to go by, or just Epstein would provide the number, and that was it? a : Basically, inmates are supposed to supply certain people their supposed to call. So, like, on their phone list, there’s certain people that we vet, that the inmates can call. So, normally, it’s, like, over in - a religious person, your immediate family members, a girlfriend, a wife, a spouse, children, stuff like that, past or whatever. But then, legally, if your legal contact or your Attorney, it’s different. You know, you can - that’s a totally different type of call. Outside of what the inmates get. Like, if they pick up the commissary phone, and 273 EFTA00060245

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10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 22 23 24 try to call, it’s only going to allow them to call those numbers off of the phone list. a : You know what I'm saying? The proof form is the green form. But over here, they say, well, I need to speak to my Attorney. Okay, I’1l give you the Attorney call. But if that was the case, he could have been afforded or given, if he was calling his mother, if he had time on the books, because he went back to his cell prior to - I think the cell, the SHU, the cell, the phones in SHU cut off at 9:00 p-m. I'm not certain. I can't remember. He could have called his mother at that time. And we wouldn’t have had to facilitate the call. He could have called her right from the thing. ee : So, I just want to - should | have checked that list before he made that phone call? a : Okay. And the last question is, if the order came from Psych, right? - It was just a question - if the order came from Psych, that Epstein needed a cell mate, should they have come down to the Unit and made sure 274 EFTA00060246

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oO oo wo o ine) Oo wo ine] No ~] uw that everyon that 0) i) be 7] 0] aw =] om = my] on Oo c rt t rr ~ requirement? No. Well, what do you mean? : Let’s say, at Psych, that Yeah. -- e-mail came out saying that, Epstein required a cell mate. Okay. So, what would have happened is, if he would have been released - because she would put that out. So, if the inmate was being released from suicide watch, prior for him being released from suicide watch, that would have went to the exec staff, that would have went to the SHU OIC, the Operations Lieutenant, to inform him that he needs - before place him in SHU - he needs to have an appropriate cell mate. Not a vetted one. Just someone because of what the SHU policy says, that an inmate must have a cell mate. Okay, but it’s on -- But it doesn't say a vetted cell mate. It doesn't say all these protocols. But with her, that’s a general statement that EFTA00060247

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No nn hh 1 would be made for any suicide watch inmate 2 coming off of suicide watch. Oh so, she sent that e-mail? r— That’s it, if you pull up any 5 other e-mail dealing with an e-mail coming from 6 suicide watch, back to SHU, that would be for any inmate. But however, with him, you 8 couldn’t necessarily do that because he would wo have to have a vetted cell mate. He would have 0 to have somebody appropriate for him. Not just any cell that was open. That, you know, if it 2 was a -- see. WwW Lal -- single occupancy, then you 5 could put him in there. But no, he had to be 16 vetted before he could go in with anybody. hat’ all I had. a: « 8 ee: Is there anything we’re it) wo missing? 20 21 ee : Let me see this form 22 right here. Yeah, we covered that. All right. 23 So, yeah. If there’s nothing else on your end, 24 then just we’ll wrap it up. 25 ae : Okay. EFTA00060248

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oO oo wo o ine) Oo wo ine] ~] ~ No there’s nothing that you discussed with the FBI, or the OIG, previous, that we didn't cover? On this. everything. Ee : That’s it. Perfect. It sounds like you were with ae . Was there anything else that she didn't do, that she should have? Aside from that round. I believe that it was the issue with the log. I think it was a log issue that we had talked about, that when I pulled up the initial log, after I got there, when I pulled up the Lieutenant’s log, it appeared that it was two different logs in the system. And then, within 45 minutes, one log had disappeared out of the system, and then, I see her leaving at about 9:15 a.m., out of the building. I don't know where she was in the building, but at 9:15 a.m., she comes walking out of the building. And I reported that to OIG when I talked to them. I talked to them about that log being -- EFTA00060249

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wo Ne] WwW wo Nh No WN: -— the daily log. , when I went turday morning. a : And when should have she plus hours? And I br believe - obviously, there looks like there was oO some pe that dropped the ball here, there’s some, like we talked about, job performance failure, security failure - do you have a K i) wu a re) 5 cr ie] on o b b 1) oO rt x fu rt i] anybor harmed Epstein EFTA00060250

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Ww wo going back - when off w So, when I I was looking for ee : Because I'm of what the rou went in the roun TRU EFTA00060251

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oo wo wo Nh fos) 5 Because all this stuff i is] going into evidence. So, I'm hurrying, I'm trying to gather this stuff. c So, the log, I'm not if) trying to compare it to the rounds, it’ jiving. So, I'm reading the log, and the log is totally - it’s not jiving. The whole thing is - the times, the frames - it’s not jiving. So then, all of the sudden, when I'm printing out the paperwork from TRUSCOPE, I go back and I look at the log, boom, another log pops up. So, I'm reading this one, and then, the other log that was there before is deleted. And she has the ability to do that? Yeah. Would the system reflect that she made changes? No. It’s not like -- 7] Or made changes. -- it’s not like the roster. The roster is not going to tell you. You know, the roster will tell you who goes in there and manipulates the roster. But not that. (Indiscernible *01:58:10). EFTA00060252

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Nh No N wo WwW wo WwW a : But like I said, then, when I'm in passing, because I'm in the Lieutenant’s Office, and I see across, I look out, because, you know, the Alpha door, that door that leads out, she’s walking, they let her out through Control Center, at 9:15. I'm, like, wh talk to ee: And did you ever her? a : I needed to talk to her. | tti‘iai‘éwl Did you ever question about that? WS: islet (O1G deal with it. Bec th use onc 0) @ file came up missing, sh wu 0) didn't report doing rounds. The log was duplicated. I said, something is going on here. I let Po know that. I told the Warden. I told OIG. That was don't know why it’s not in there - I talked a : I talked about her leaving the institution at 9:15. N fe) rar EFTA00060253

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Ne] WwW 7 on 08/10. 9 in here 0 that SHU count was cor by the 1 Lieutenant log, completed by Lieutenant Ne] ' a ht time, the midnight count, where st 73 to 72. from WwW 4 Do you recall reading that? 5 a : Like I said, it was all kind 6 of discrepancies, all kinds of discrepancies on I'm just tr could bring it before the wo him know what’s 21 ee : That’s what we talked EFTA00060254

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wo wo Do you understand what I’m | tti‘ésSS Like, what he’s talking about is, after these, and I actually cut that re th out. @ a : So, no, but - he’s mentioning - from my understanding is - WS: -— you were (Indiscernible a : -- when I was reviewing the into 08/10. log from the night, a : That morning watch log for 08/10? Because it starts off with this one, and then it follows, like this. It was totally bad. It was messed up. It showed - it was a bad l« And then, by the time I was being able to print that log, that log had changed. was EFTA00060255

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Ne] WwW follow up right. All right. We’1ll have to with that. But all right. i] 2lse? i) >.m., On Tuesday Special Agent and I am he DOJ OIG, EFTA00060256

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