DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL JUNE 14, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 2¢ 2 Roadside Drive, Hills, C (818) EFTA00058522

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APPEARANC OR GENERAL EFTA00058523

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Ww wo ee : The recording is on. June 14, 2021. The time is artment of Justice ee : 3:15 p.m. The interview is EFTA00058524

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Ww K i) 1) WM. «this int investigation into the d and the timing - surrounds that time. voluntarily provide answ Will agree to a DOJ OIG? 1 I am DOJ Special Agent interview review the form wit DOJ h OIG EFTA00058525

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Information on a Voluntary Basis. You are being asked to provide information as part of an investigation being conducted by the Office of the Inspector General. This investigation is being conducted pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978 as amended. This investigation pertains to job performance failure and security failure. This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not have to answer any questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you choose not to answer questions. Any statement you furnish may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceeding or agency disciplinary proceedings or both. Now this is the statement for you directly. I understand the Warnings and Assurances stated above and I am willing to make a statement and answer questions. No promises or threats have been made to me and no pressure or coercion of any kind has been used against me. Do you understand that? a : Do you agree to move forward with the interview? EFTA00058526

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3 You’re going to ture. co Thank you. 3 : What time is it 3:20 now? ing the w W o 3 rt | H 0 o avoiding saying your 7 last name. 8 alright. It’s 9 be signing the 20 24 right hand? Do you and nothing but the truth during this in EFTA00058527

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Please let me know if you do not understand any and I will repeat Security Number? cell phone rh H 3 EFTA00058528

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wo EFTA00058529

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Ww Ww years and five mon Do oO is rt =) w rt D ket you do prior to +t i= w rt Hh oO R And prior to that. I was a full-time with New J ct b- oO o prob EFTA00058530

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wo jou graduate from BOP trainir ignment EFTA00058531

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wo 7) WwW wo 24 11 a : So, they - 95% of the time I was at the Medium. But when we were short- sta then I would go to the Pen on the low. tried their best to keep at one ct he entire itution. But you were hired for could bour up under a G t. And then I’m now promoted lieutenant. So, the promotions were the senior and the lieutenant. EFTA00058532

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wo ee: Oh. It’s just the its) you work? Do 't remember wha EFTA00058533

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Ne] WwW - = wu let K ue] b 17) Ww Ty Ty oe ee oe ) ying to pr with it. with x oO on ct D a] i 7) Hh Oo wt He i= Q oc a) = = oO rt i Yep. Let me know if you recall. ct J a o laf o And then for -. Wait hold on a sec. Oh. Yep. I did EFTA00058534

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wo wo 24 is usually 2:00 to 10:00, but I overlap because my regular hours are 8:00 usually when they have the Senior activities, we have to wait becau start the rol oO oO e or) we are still doing our regular time. a : So, I did activities from 4:00 to 10:00 that night. lieutenants and they said that they actually to other start the lieutenant positions two hours earlier. Is that the case with this case as did that then a : That is correct. Did you actually end with what time it 14 EFTA00058535

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15 No for Ae} o Kh ) WwW oO o + 10th -. 5 Hs: «So, you didn’t go until 6 12:00 a.m. You went until 10:00 p.m. 0 Alright. And then I’m 1 - August 10th. I was ttorn 0 fu 2 SHU2. I was supposed to be V in) Qo O 5 Mm o a] o 5 Q o 4 po wu rt w as my post. But because 4 that happened with Epstein, attorney S was canceled. 6 I came in that day, I remember the lieutenant ct Oo a 7 telling me to go to elp out. Be iu) xtra 8 bodies U. That day they put a bunch of us 9 in out. Yep. 20 re you in the 21 SHU on August the 10th? a : Um 8:00 to 4:00. EFTA00058536

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Ww Ww the stio some q Mm nd I did ty Ss. This is it. August 10th. i 0 5 p. From internal. We with mandations and j So. We all - cing about though is shift from 4 -hmm. And then we’1ll probably ns -- -hmm. back? primarily what the day. 16 EFTA00058537

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wo initial and so that you know what document. You know be going to attach this to the transcri you w just want can just put your name on a : You can Eee : She can probably so that if EFTA00058538

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Ne] WwW co when th. you worked at the M cialist, what’s your daily duties? a : On that specific post or -? when p. So this post entails pretrial inmates meeting with their legal team. probation, a legal matter. That’s where EFTA00058539

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= ive} 1 whatever reason. Oo Fal u K > y ct y ion i) C rt w its] w 5 Activities Lieutenant? 5 night? WwW : Yeah. That night. 7 a : Yeah. So I’m required to do Fh are alive and 1) 8 rounds. Make sure that staf wo well. Rounds of them doing their duties, 0 conducting their rounds, doing know making sure they’re doing counts and 2 things like that. So basically supervising f. WwW Ph sta 16 GN::-s ve ah. On that note, counts and rounds. Do you assist with doing the fee} counts and rounds? wo Q mw ia f. 21 ee : So you said though that 22 they make sure that you do them. How does a b lieutenant ac that the employees are doing their counts and round EFTA00058540

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uw fo) 10 11 12 13 14 17 18 19 20 a certain day, we all have the operations lieutenant will say hey I want you to observe a count in unit 7 North. Or 9 North is doing a bed book count. Go observe that count. So we ensure that those things are being done basically but when we make our specific round, and we’re speaking with the officer saying hey is everything good. You know make sure you do your rounds. Basically reinforcing and reiterating because you know at the end of the day we’re all adults. So like you have a job to do and we’re just making sure. And you know making sure you’re doing it. We’re not like babysitting -- ee : Sure. Okay. a : -- and like hey, you know, do ee: Do the officers though ever actually participate in the rounds and the counts? Are they supposed to do that at all? a : Say that again. I’m sorry. Ee : So are the lieutenants - are they supposed to participate in any of the counts and rounds done of the inmates so when the COs are doing counts and rounds -- EFTA00058541

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N N Nh Nh wo wo i) WwW uw L supposed to do that like once a shift. a : No. So once a shift, we are taking the count. So we are the ones in the control center where the officers are actuall calling eir counts in. So like observing counts is something that we do irregularly. If you understand what I’m trying to s es : So like say for instance if I’m activities today. I want to observe 7 A ay. North conduct a count. I want to go up to 9 North today and do a shakedown with them. It’s something that as a lieutenant you take the initiative and when you go to the say hey let’s do a shakedown. Let’s Let’s do a round on this tier. You have any issues with any inmates? yeah. I had an issue with inmate Smith. Alright. Let’s go talk to Inmate Smith over there. it’s to your discretion. EFTA00058542

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1 you need to do this or do that. It’s just if 2 you want to take the initiative to make sure 3 that they know where they’re going and they’re 4 doing it right -- 6 ee : You do it. 7 a : It should be done, but it’s 8 not like hey Monday it has to be done. Tuesday 9 it has to be done. You know as a lieutenant OQ you should be a lot - you should be speaking 11 with the officers and in the mix and hands on 2 with them. But it’s not like Tuesday you do 3 it. Wednesday you do this. Thursday you do 16 a : And in Special Housing Unit, we should be walking every single tier speaking 8 with every single inmate as a lieutenant making wo rounds ina S§& ecial Housing Unit. 20 Hs: «ems you kind of explain 21 that a little bit? 22 a : Okay. 23 ee : So during a shift should 24 a lieutenant be going to the Special Housing 25 Unit -- EFTA00058543

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wo wo 23 ; a : That is correct. a : Yes. So in general population, that’s the opposite of Special Housing. When you make a round, like you don’t have to hit. So let’s say that they have eight tiers. Tier 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8. You make a round. You check on the officer. And then you’re in the unit but you’re not because inmates are out and about. So it’s not about walking every tier because the inmates are out. But in Special -. I’m sorry, I’m just dramatic with my hands. a : So in Special Housing, inmates are locked down. So it’s our sponsibility to go up on the tier and go to every door and speak to every inmate because it’s not general population. It’s not like they can - when you come to the unit they can come out and say hey lieutenant I got a question. That’s the reason why we have to go to them. ee : So the lieutenant does EFTA00058544

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24 Ne] WwW 4 a : For our round once a shift. Housing Unit cking on the -? co 3. It was I know that for 5 sure. 7 . Which shift. o 20 lieutenant 21 or a count? 22 Did you say it was a round or a count? EFTA00058545

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 watch. So as an 8 acting as a lieutenant. Like when I’m finished with that shift, I’1l go check in with him and I’1ll say hey what do you need me to do. He’1ll go okay, I need you to take the count in Control F4. I need you to move this inmate from Special Housing Unit to Suicide Watch. I need you to move this inmate over here. And then after that I need you to make sure all the food carts get up on time. So I’m kind of like taking direction from the operations lieutenant. And then we’ll say something like hey who’s going to SHU. Me or you? Oh, you go to SHU, hit all of this. I’m going to be doing this. It’s kind of like you guys are. es : But every shift a lieutenant should be in the Special Housing Unit checking in with each inmate. ee : Even the like midnight to 6:00 a.m. a : Well overnight is kind of different because you’re not -. You’re making a round but you’re not tapping on every -. So like if you’re making a round in Special 25 EFTA00058546

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oo wo wo N nn Housing Unit, and I’m walking past cell 1. And he’s like writing a letter or something. Right? And the other one is like doing some jumping jacks. And I’1l show my face at the door. You guys good? Yeah, Lu, I’m good. I’1ll keep it moving. I’m not like hey do you have any issues, tell me now. It’s you know what I’m saying. You make yourself present. They know who you are. And that’s the opportunity for them to say what they need to say if they have any iss c oO 7) or anything like ct hat. ee : But even from like 10 p-m. to 6 a.m.? Because they’re probably sleeping between then, right? a : Yeah, but so, you’re still making a round and basically looking for live breathing bodies. ee : Okay. So and the lieutenant should be doing that every night? Ee : Alright. ee : I’m not really sure about the morning watch shift. EFTA00058547

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K 0] wo 9 9s don't overnight 0 lieutenant on fee} Q 20 9th from when jy 21 tivities EFTA00058548

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Ne] WwW } 7) b -m., 10 p.m., 4 12:01 a.m., 3 a.m., 5 a.m. 9 ae: 5 9 So the 4, 12, 3, and 5 - 0 - it’s - But in additio 1 on weekends and holida we a 10 a.m. 5 a unt 6 WN: ts don't remember. I can’t say. I don't remember 9 up because you said th re suppo or -- other a : I don’t’ remember who the count EFTA00058549

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Ww Ww fee) control. I want to go to the tw is ct rt a wu ct ” ] oO rt 2 ducted round and that r¢ y. That’ doors count Sa ro you m didn’t’ Unit, hittin remember aroun tween lik observ but I d like and und? ake N EFTA00058550

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Ne] WwW w n q oO Ph Hh HK 0) is) tre] mM rt o k 3 b 5 rt z ) H fee) is) K i) 7) Who was he meeting with? 5 with him? how many. But it’s interact with them speak to him? a bladder re EFTA00058551

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wo WwW wo 23 room frequently. over to help me. on bathroom. to do that -- I do remember him being in attorney When ning count. did open to Well eveni I would call wu in at that time, kay. d would be the same you were doing the ng rounds - He was still -. in attorney We'll come back £ you’re going to come what time did he male put the would use be with him he back in his cell? on EFTA00058552

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N on ~l ies) wo 7) WwW =) ~~] wo About What time did he leave? fee w 3 ion w U i2] Fh conference ends at ith attorneys though. Those were attorney conference hours. And he always did all you supervised employees, did you have under ae: On O day watch, it the evening watch shift If just really de working day wa would be over 50. that came from up wu oS A. het Oo c pS wu jon rt Oo re} i oH wo Bb ct 0 How would you do it? : We would usually do ference calls EFTA00058553

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uw fo) 10 11 12 13 14 17 18 19 work? Explain that. ee : Yep. The phones that we have, we just press three - three times. And then whoever presses 3, we all hear each other. We call those conference calls. ME: ox2y. a : We make announcements over the PA system. But if it’s like pertinent information, we do the conference calls and I was also the kind of individual where I repeat the same thing over and over again, so when I made a round and I saw every officer, I would say the same thing over and over. You know, sometimes people miss conference calls. I was in the bathroom; I was doing this. So, this is pertinent information. So face-to-face and conference calls. a : Okay. If there was any instructions or guidance from upper management, how would they give it to you? How would they pass it on to you? a : They would pass it on to me as an officer or as a 9 lieutenant? a : Let’s do both since you can speak about both. 33 EFTA00058554

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10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 34 ee : As an officer, how would you get it? a : As an officer, they would always tell the captain who would then tell the operations lieutenant and then inform the officers. If the officers needed to know. I mean as an officer, we’re called line staff, we didn’t always know. We didn’t’ need to know the gist of everything. So like say for instance that night we had a high-profile inmate coming in. We would find out when we’re doing our round or we’re working that unit. Like oh, you’re the one that was on the news. Okay. So we didn’t know everything that was going on. ee : Okay. And that’s as an officer. What about as a lieutenant? a : Being a 9 I mean if you happen to be in the office at the time that the captain was telling operations, then you’ll get wind of it. If not, then if I was walking around or out and about and I would see the operations, and he or she will call me and say I’ve got some information to tell you. Come on EFTA00058555

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Ww s not co lling 6 7 communic u know 8 the chain of -- 20 a : -- command is, inform an EFTA00058556

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1 ee : So what if it was a different omething got passed down to the ND i] J pb. ht rt ies) erations lieutenant in the morning from the WwW 4 captain and now it’s coming up on evening 5 shift. How does that get passed down? 6 what if the captain doesn’t get a chance to 7 meet with the operations lieutenant that works wo J ) ue} fu if] it) | : You’re saying that like at 2 8:00 in rt he morning. WwW : Lets say at 8:00 in the 4 morning there’s an order or guidance that come o 5 down -- + fea] oO fu k | | ct (e) rt a oO ie] o it fu rt bh (3) 5 wo fee} li 0] u ct oO Ss 7] =] rt And now that needs to be wo K @ ue] 21 spread out to the evening shift and the night 22 watch. Right? : Mm-hmm. : Well let’s talk fw i] bh Fh h- Q 177) a So if you got right here you’re EFTA00058557

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wo got who would 4:00 p.m. information EFTA00058558

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Ww wo Is it if | is - or - what am I understanding much is, is || would be though is pre like his prima EFTA00058559

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mt) io 3 be to bring that down to wt K Oo f In 2019. 24 EFTA00058560

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40 1 ee : I’m going to read what it N n ct al] rt i] 7) WwW let me know if it’s on 5 a any questions. 6 wo B- n 0 as 11 a lieutenant. This happens when | 2 working overtime and is in the capacity of 3 her acting activities lieutenant. | 4 stated that in order to do a round, an officer area that is an activities ~~] n B 0) c rt oO 5 uy o rt = i) w 1) n wu round through the al Housing Unit and asks officers in th iu) is) wo J) if thin gs ar s usually called numerous certain is 21 like when an inmate complains that he hasn’t mething, .. property. | then takes note of the issue and advises the received 24 captain. ae : I don't know about ad EFTA00058561

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3 wait for the captain. a 9, I would advise am a Senior initiative of August 9th fee} Lieu Sampli Sampling EFTA00058562

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Ww fee) Ww : When you do rounds -- ds that hant —-— EFTA00058563

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N N Nh Nh wo wo ho WwW uw Lael is] it different for each Okay. I think that’s what -. make sure you’re talking about -. When you were talking about a lieutenant doing counts inds I and rounds, are you talking about - or r ically talking about with your staff as opposed to with the inmates. Correct? a : Well when you’re making cause I ama pers the corrections system. I mean staff ae : You know. Of course we inmates, but if I’m walking on a unit sSuperv and I need to know where that aff member is. Once I get that staff member, and I get eyes on that staff member, then we do whatever we need ee : So point being is if I’m asking a lieutenant about conducting rounds and EFTA00058564

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N N Nh Nh wo wo i) WwW uw I’m asking a CO about conducting rounds, for a lieutenant a round would pretty much you’re checking in with your round is with the CC The Officers. Whereas the officers rounds are with the inmates. Ee : Oh that’s not? a : No-no. So lieutenant’s rounds are staff and inmates. es : Now officer inmates. So like for example, we have to make i ; rounds is just rounds on outside patrol. There’s no inmates out there. But we still have to leave the building, see the OP1 officer, and then walk around the building, make sure nothing is being tampered with and come back inside. So our rounds consist of finding security rounds as well. You know we’re tugging on doors and making sure the recreation is secured -- a : -- and stuff like that. So. 44 EFTA00058565

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ow ~—] wo 10 12 13 14 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. If | works overtime, she acts as activities lieutenant from 4:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. | has worked as a corrections officer in the SHU usually in overtime and on evening watch. During her shifts in the SHU, ma has responsibilities pertaining to the inmates such as phone calls, showers, and the library. The 30-minute rounds are recorded in TruScope and on paper logs. | stated that she has not worked with anyone who didn’t’ do the rounds. | participates in the 10 a.m. count on the weekends, but during the week, a count is not done during her regular shift of 8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. During the week, | leaves before 10:00 p.m. count is conducted. During a count, all inmates have to be seen. The inmates are counted by one officer, then another officer. : Double count. Double count. Two step. If there are only two officers working during the count, one officer will count the inmates, then the officers will EFTA00058566

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46 1 switch, and the other officer will count the N WwW Like they may be We have to still count them. 2) 7 considered out-count, but we still have to 8 count them. So we c here inmates are. point being if t wo QO were people in the SHU but then one or 2 still have to account for them. WwW a : Because they’re in the 7 building. fee} wo an Oo And how write them on the Just the number - total EFTA00058567

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: Or do ct O 5 Oo ct oO Ne] WwW 5 the out count, which is 6 -. So like say for tance we on 7 that’s out to law library. 9 a : We will call control and s 0 hey we got an inmate out to law library. n wu het Alright. Put them on the out count as law No be pb oO 5K wu ia kK ep oO 1) bh b put them on the out count. WwW So when that officer counts, I’ve got one in 7 a : Still documented. Yes. It’s 8 still documented on the count slip. It’s still wo 21 though that anyo was outside of the unit? umber? do out EFTA00058568

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WwW wo WwW wo H Out count. count : And this is dated August a : Yep. Alright. So August 3, the 4:00 p.m. count. unt is cleared. these areas called in their count. All the counts were good and it’s now clear. And now move again. a : And is there a count In the documents? its) 1) b Bb ce} 3 And a count slips are corner or here, stapled to this package EFTA00058569

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No WwW Ww going All t count he way to the on that sl show How ip? an would 10W: EFTA00058570

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10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 50 Let’s use.... This is southern court. We have inmates that go to court like during the day because it’s a pretrial institution. So, it says FNYS. That’s Southern District Court. So up here it will say FNYS. There’s three inmates from 5 South that are still out that are not physically in the building. So we have to do an out count for them. ae : And it’s listed on the counts slip as FNYS. ee : Yes. So you’ve got -. That’s weird. FN, oh I’m sorry. FNYS. FNYS. Oh there’s one. I’m looking at food service. That’s on my way to discrepancy. Okay. FNYS. One. There’s one out. Same room counted and the count slip would be right here. ee : And what does that state? a : Hold on, let’s see. That states that there’s one inmate by the name of Clark that’s in Southern Court from 11 South Unit. So this is the Sentry document that matches this document right here. ae : Okay. Well here’s the question I have. If an inmate happened to be moved to R&D. EFTA00058571

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during that 6 count, if does i 8 being in 9 being in 0 inmate being 1 out of the building. That’s why it’s an out £2 count. WwW 8 ae : Oh, it’s just be l. It would going to show EFTA00058572

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wo ? wv bh = 3 aw p- iQ =a t N o midnight. now Mm-hmm. 12 pm. Mm-hmm. I mean I’m going 12 midnight. many count. show Sorry EFTA00058573

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wo rt a ow rt back. i] i 8 = or Pe J 1 i) a B ie} i} i} it and I want to How many people in the RA? Mm-hmm. Now if slip for the you tell me didn’t work this. EFTA00058574

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S) Nh Nh No N WwW wo 7) WwW : wo WwW Ke om ue] Now you want me to tell you which count slips which one? The SHU. SHU one says. Yep. It n w k rt) with the 0 Oo U wo rt o wu rt 3 wu rt Qa > number on -? It does not he t jon 12] i) 03) 3 fe] + ) f 3 =] iT] ct 1) pe =] vs) pa o What’s the procedure? What would -? Do surrender. Ir agencies will drop all the time. Internal number two would now be pulled from their post and told to post up in R&D to watch is a secure fw rea, if] ie) staff member has to be in there. There’s wu un EFTA00058575

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 like no back-and-forth. Like you’re now pulled from your post and you have to physically stay in R&D to watch that inmate. So what they’1l do sometimes. I’m not saying that happened this time, we’ll do something where we do like the lieutenant will say hey, because it’s so close to count, and the inmate is accounted for, we'll kind of like ghost count him. Ghost counting meaning the inmate is still physically accounted for but we’ll just put it on the slip. Again, I’m not saying this happened there. HS: Bt swe have a lot of inmate movement at count times. Sometimes we’1l improvise with the documentation, but never with accounting for inmates. a : Okay. I just wanted to -. The point of clarification is to let’s say if the count was done and the count was wrong. What’s the next step? If they identified the fact that whoever the COs are, they counted the inmates -- CE: aon. a : -- and it happened to be 55 EFTA00058576

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N N Nh Nh oO wo wo ho WwW uw wrong. I’m not saying that happened here. If it was wrong -- Yep. a : -- and the lieutenant whoever it was on shift identifies it as wrong, what’s the next step? a : So when you call in one bad count, you have to go recount again. Right? If you call in two bad counts, the lieutenant authorizes a bed book count. That’s, we have like picture where you’re but we’re physically cards with like a long book with bed picture in it, reg number, We now have to recount the making sure Smith, you're Jones, you’re supposed to be. Okay. So we do bed book counts. bad counts. the So one bad count, redo the count. Yes. Do the lieutenants have to go i] rr counts to as wi i=) EFTA00058577

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Ne] WwW WwW y- Do you h if someone - if they said present, one out. And count slip. What would happen then? a : What happens with the staff? a : So would you write 72 or ee : Or would the lieutenant? 73 So if the slip in this instance says what, | ti‘ aié‘ésll And if when they called it in and told the ops lieutenant we’ve got 73 here but one of them is ee : Is that considered a bad count? Or what is count. It’ in the unit. that we i) improvise with and coming in EFTA00058578

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wo wo wi o after hours as like self-surrenders and -- ES: on. WN: -- when the DEA, the FBI, they drop off inmates at that time. ee : So what should have been written on these? Should have it said 72 on ? What should have the counts a : Well inmates that come in that late, we call them safekeeps and they’re always going to go to SHU regardless. Always. Because they’re coming in late and they haven’t been medically assessed. We do the initial intake, but it’s not a full-on intake like during day watch hours. So all inmates coming in at that time always go to Special Housing Unit. So again, I’m not saying that happened that time, but there have been situations when inmates are coming in and -. ee : And so what I’m saying in this specific instance -- ee : Mm-hmm. ee : -- if when they spoke to the ops lieutenant and they said hey, we got Q EFTA00058579

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wi Ye] 1 72, but No t) K o wu J re) lieutenant can that would be the lieutenant’s decision? a) 4 e -- 7 the SHU. 20 that nant to is in : Mm-hmm. EFTA00058580

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Ww fee} know. all the Happens time. institution w w a a times of the night. o I'll clarify. Does a -? I’m just trying to see why unt again -- a : That’s what we’re trying EFTA00058581

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Ne] WwW WwW -- if the inmates are slip. C calling in is actually I want to make sure that we’ve got e ther body. i?) new in that like 3 in the morning, it’s not the EFTA00058582

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2) wo Ne] WwW fee} wo s job to hey we got more new. Because it’s ae : Would that change if this person wasn’t new? It was rather an inma in the SHU d got m I mean we’ve had oO me out at weird times, but an inmate to put the ints on. Like if medical is not there, know, we do CPR, we urniquets, we do whole lot of thin is R ee : I mean what does it - it short for something or is it just lette a A and R&D? What do they stand for? It’s lett R&D would be ar EFTA00058583

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—no. Ne] It’s nothing like that. like WwW It’s not like literally B-A, WwW 5 the 10:00 p.m. No. ney conference at this time. So now, Do you recall there being an incident night? So if the count went down bety 4 p.m. and 10:00 p.m. EFTA00058584

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wo WwW wo 23 were on shift. threatening anything or sayin reason why they would have been rem where? yg =] w ct oO 7) ie] O 3 oO i} 5 a B- Q i=5 i t don't threaten and th on the 10:00 see to the suicide Did threaten to remember that p.m. you recall of any inmates anything? Any « ed from night? Not that I can remember. No. Did you hear movement -? Removed from the S Did any Suicide watch. commit suicide that I don't remember. Oo Fal wu ket To be honest with is) o you. I specifically. If I said inmates did two did get moved out, can you count of them being moved watch? That would be -. Where would they be i) aQ Q 12) Cc oa ct @ o That would be three inmates. three inmates leaving. So saying that three inmat -. EFTA00058585

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oO uw 1 Hold on one second. 2 Yeah-yeah. Hello. 9 1 a : So if there was two inmates 2 moved, would it show at the 10:00 p.m. count 3 where they were 4 ee : No, that’s in Sentry. So the 5 count slips and this 6 movement of inmates. we 7 call -. Oh, I’m sorry. What unit would they show up 9 on suicide what unit are 20 21 They would be H-A. 22 How many inmates do you see? 23 Four. 24 How ma inmates do you see -m. count? EFTA00058586

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Ne] WwW Ne] WwW wo : So between 4:00 p.m. and 10:00 p.m. two inmates were moved over. You don't know the fac : -- but let’s say threaten to commit suicide, two would have A moved over. Right? Now it’s four at 10:00 p.m. but because th numbers ar it] QQ im rh Hh m K i) 5 ct ion 0 oO a) Ss rt 3 i) wu i=] ct S ny] rt ct o Oo n 1) went there. We need in between paperwork to show that the SHU inmates were the ones that went to suicide watch. . Ykeaw THatlea investigation it shows that someone did. : Gotha. What I’m trying to get at is at 10:00 p.m. they s 73 inmates. EFTA00058587

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oO : So would that mean that one Ne] WwW person was already in R&D? Because remember, 4 at midnight they’re saying there’s a person in 0 10:00 p.m. count -. Or even the 10:00 p.m. No ct p 0) b , @ c rt oO 5 wy 5 rt wu 5 ion a t fu K bh Hh ; o on = t f a rt o rmission to account for the ot) k be ay =] rt 0) 5 uy =] rt ct re) Q i) rt @ 4 R&D person. But why would an inmate that’s 5 inside the SHU still be in R&D t a wu t b wu or o it ct 7 a : Why would an inmate in wo : But where would he be coming EFTA00058588

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Nh No wo Ne] WwW wo then all of as udden it’ i] 72 at midnight. Were ~ oF b ct cha ged between Could that have happened and midnig}! at had happened? I’m That inmate - that from unusual? inma te s to orders and they pull go rat on inmates. We EFTA00058589

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N N No S) wo WwW wo WwW he’s sudden at midnight, 10:00 p.m. it said 73. And they’re claiming ividual actually was found in R&D. that suspicious that actually Sr it probably hap earlier in day and they were just not doing their But like that between you would be very rare 10:00 midnight, would be d to R&D. for someone mov inmate would be going to R&D just going to R&D? Like there’s nothing in R&D And then R&D But just to go Now when we have emergency trips Yep. changed to 72. But at EFTA00058590

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wo WwW wo 23 then that’s when we gather all the restraints and we put the restraints on But. I don't know. Is R&D housed at all times? here’s someone : Yes. Nope. Alright. So I’m going to @ Oo back to your entry notes. In the control center, an employee gets information from the person that he or she relieves. While in the control center, one has responsibilities such fire che security ck, equipment, and key and watching the cameras. The person o designated as Control 2 is re for preparing the paperwork for the 9, | works in the capacity of 10:00 August 9, 20 lieutenant from 4:00 p.m. to p.m. During this time, | stopped by the SHU. recalled that regular a She 70 EFTA00058591

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 71 were occurring at the time of her visit. | fed inmates in G Tier and in 10 South - the high security unit. | recalled seeing Jeffrey Epstein earlier on August 9th and around 9:00 a.m. at attorney conference area. Epstein was there with three or four attorneys who were in and out of the facility. | recalled that there being two females and one male. At one point, Epstein had to get an officer’s attention to use the restroom. | was not in the SHU when Epstein came back from attorney conference. Usually Epstein would be cuffed to go back to the SHU from attorney conference around 7:20 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. | doesn’t remember anyone talking about a phone call that Epstein made on August 9th. She also is not aware of how either of Epstein’s cellmates were selected. | only heard things in passing regarding Epstein’s alleged suicide attempt in July. | does not know the particular procedures or guidelines regarding an inmate who comes off suicide watch. She stated that usually that inmate is put with a cellmate but she does not know if this is policy or just general EFTA00058592

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ld be made at SHU know if Epstein acting lieutenant. i) wu 9 Okay. We might come back on Mm-hmm. Ne] Your -. Did you know if WwW had a cellmate? fee} wo ond to it if Epstein h or psych being on the EFTA00058593

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~l Wo and suicide is the 2 same area. So which one was he? I do not Okay. 5 a : But I do remember wo was 0 did 5 : July 30th. wo 2 ructions on Epstein about where to put him. N ho t dealt with him mostly in attorney conference 23 EFTA00058594

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Ne] WwW WwW talking about August about is July instructions from 3 fu t bh Hy iad fe) =] we] n ke 5 (D D D Qa a] ie] i] be bh =] 7] ct 0) names - a to try to Sth. No this situation I’m talking 30th. Just Oo Make sure. No. Did Captain a: No. you receive an Do you recall receiving an ych instructing that Epstein Oo I’m mention going to know if Mm-hmm. So So I’m just going to Got it. And the spark tion when EFTA00058595

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you’re thinking of that pe God, did I actually disc Mm-hmm. -- Epstein with that wu le ng to EFTA00058596

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a interactions in yo you wu =| D H b wu A ct 3 wu =| D n No. No EFTA00058597

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2) wo Ne] WwW fee} wo a : That is correct. ae : You were not aware of roommate - cellmate was ? Eventually fact that his t remember that. a : If a regular inmate is mandated to have a cellmate. the cellmat oO removed for whatever reason. Who i n nsible to have to that inmate? = =) O Q w ‘od ct ie p. o r if fo) 0 in] to cal o terms of Epstein requiring a cellmate, who uld those instructions come fro EFTA00058598

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 78 a : Psychology. For what reason though? Like just suicidal reasons specifically or -? ae : Suicide. Let’s say the decision was made because he was on suicide watch, then he was in psych observation, and then psychology makes a decision that hey, listen, this inmate cannot be housed by himself. a : If that instruction had to come down to the lieutenant and even the COs, how - what was the chain of command? How should those instructions come around? ae : Okay. So those things happen when they have regular department head meetings. But then they also have emergency meetings. So in a situation like that, they would have a last-minute emergency meeting. They’11l come up with whatever plan. It’s medical. It’s all department heads. It’s unit team, it’s medical, it’s psychology, it’s the captain. Lieutenants don't sit in department head meetings. So whatever determination they make, the captain will inform the lieutenants. EFTA00058599

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uw fo) 10 11 12 13 14 17 18 19 So like line staff, we don't really need to know who needs a cellie and who doesn’t because we don't - it’s not our responsibility to walk around and say hey you need a cellmate. We just you know we count for inmates, do our rounds, do our shakedowns, and go home in one piece. ae : Being the fact that you did overtime in the SHU. ee : Mm-hmm. a : A requirement like that - do you think they should have informed you about that? HS: Absolutely. Okay. a : So I do remember them putting a stickie note on the computer. You know everyone looks at the computer. Saying do rounds on Epstein. That’s just something that as officers we do to say hey, reminder. Make sure you check on this inmate. So like say if I’m working a housing unit and an inmate got news that his mother died. And I’m on the housing unit. And this happened on my shift. And I’1l put a little stickie note and say hey EFTA00058600

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ow oO oo wo wo 80 keep eyes on inmatef—foecause he got a phone call, he got an email, that his mom passed away. You know keep an eye on him. I’ll write a little sticky note. It’s like something that we do as line staff. So like say when you’re relieving me and because you’1l forget sometimes to pass on pertinent information. So we did that as something that we made up to do to remind ourselves like hey, what’s this sticky note for? Oh yeah. I remember f telling me that mother died. Just keep an eye on him. es : So there was a note that fe) said. ae : There was a note that we - when I say we I mean line staff. There was a note that somebody created as a reminder for us to do it. You understand what I’m trying to a : Like not like an email printed out. It’s like a little sticky note. Something that we did. a : Which computer? a : There’s two computers in SHU. EFTA00058601

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Ne] WwW m had a little ae : You never seen it? 7 a : I’ve never seen the note. 8 But I’ve heard people who say we even had a You know 0 the lines of that. But I can 1 happening because I used to do little sti Ne] notes as reminders to myself. WwW -- the instructions did come is lieutenants and then the 8 staff knew. You know, you were not aware of it wo according to -. EFTA00058602

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No WwW WwW ee : Let’s say the line staff was aware of that uirement. A is) Hh KR oO a ellmate was from the SHU at - between And between 1:00 notified that Can you look at the responsibility it bottom up - to On the 9th or the 10th? Because -. Alright. Well not arily the sponsibility would it have been in the institution. who would been notified Who would ha notifications? EFTA00058603

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Ww co Ww Right. left a With lieutenants. first depart and di to and how and co schargi should it h me in the same we ng and that’s overlap. would found out the first ones does it show on this determine this who i 7) EFTA00058604

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S) N No i No ine] N WwW wo 7) WwW wo WwW working those p post. So receiving and discharging is not here. R&D a erations and said hey Epstein’ ae : Who would have operations at that point? a : Uh, it would | is still on. He leave you’re asking me the time fra a requirement from a. Mm-hmm. and made sure. Yeah. Operations lieutenan es t. wa Before everyone left He should hav non-custody should have notified s cellie left. ware of the done? t with oO g for the day they should have made sure that Epstein had another cellmate. have been assigned if it was requires should a cellmate Well I mean depends because if the situation situation and they have to, is a unique you know -. fos) EFTA00058605

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oO oo wo o ine) Oo wo ine] situation. a : Mm-hmm. ee : Let’s think about it. So if everyone is told Epstein needs a cellmate at all times. | is informed. The cellmate left. What should have happened? a : He should have got a cellie before every department head left. ee : Okay. So should have he notified - should have he gone straight to -- es : Somebody has to tell -. ee : -- psychology or should have he told the captain first? Or how -? ee : Well somebody has to. So like if the lieutenant is on. Rigt x t. The lieutenant is here. They have their office. Everyone has their own offices. So if an inmate is - he leaves out of R&D and the marshals or whoever calls R&D and say hey this inmate had got released from court. We take him off the count. R&D should be notifying their supervisor who in turn would be notifying psychology and the captain. And then that’s when it comes down. You understand what I’m trying to say? EFTA00058606

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So me being a line staff, my N WwW immediate supervisor is always operations. 4 Like I don't call R&D and 5 inmate g 6 line operations. a supervisor. So they should 8 have been going to their superv 9 ll have line staff in R&D. 0 And that’s when the supervisor needs to reach out to whoever they 7) 2 need to reach out to. And they -. Well the WwW 5 a : And they would have been - 16 would they have been responsible to making i) c a 0) assigned a cellma rt e 9 Okav 7 UKay. 20 Yeah. Now if || sit anything with it. on the Nh WwW it) i) bp s rh Oo 3 ia ct bh fe) o ow o oF oF ie] oO un o ct jon EFTA00058607

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oo wo wo fos) ~] He doesn’t tell the captain. He doesn’t tell psychology. Is there any way that that 103) information could have gotten back up to a: So should have the people in the SHU and for the next people that are in the Epstein -. They know there is a sticky note on the computer. Epstein needs a cellmate. a : Mm-hmm. a : Should have they notified you? Should have they said hey Epstein is in there. He doesn’t have a cellmate. And then you would have therefore notified | Should have that happened? a : No. No. Because if | is coming on late, and no disrespect, but no one is home thinking about inmates. Sure. And if they need a cellie or not. So when people come in, we have many high-profile inmates. No one comes in saying okay, what’s going on with El Chapo today? What’s going on with Epstein? Like it is not that deep. So if you’re coming in and you’re speaking with operations. You know, you’re EFTA00058608

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co oo tening to pertinent information. 1g questions. Was it quiet today? And if y -enant going 5 n, no 6 is inquiri inmate when you’re staring 8 ee: No. And I’m not asking is) bh Hh | | 3 Yeah. nt if the 6 8 note rt say V 22 a : No-no-no. I didn’ 1duct rounds on that. EFTA00058609

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Ne] WwW WwW time somebo Es) comes on should they still make that notification? No? a : No because that’s not their So if the information What happens? not the line staff Hi rt a know who needs a cellmate or o staff, then they just don't know. EFTA00058610

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Ww wo day. about him becal ] So What if if I knev all that t would have hen there do a EFTA00058611

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1 don't come in just were there any other eft that could have didn’t actually a cellmate. EFTA00058612

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ow oO ~—] wo 10 12 13 14 confusing part to me is why wouldn’t they be required to tell you that? If they knew he had a cellmate, why wouldn’t they say hey lieutenant, hey LT. Epstein is supposed to have a cellmate. a : But that’s specific. In my opinion, that’s pertinent information. So if Epstein is in attorney conference. Right. And shifts are overlapping. And he’s there during the count. And I’m making a round at let’s say :00. And they’re going oh Epstein needs a uw cellie. That would be coming from higher-ups. So coming on, | | -. Ee: «But it BJ kept the information and | has no idea that Epstein doesn’t have a cellie. How can that information get back to ft that Epstein doesn’t have a cellie? a : But they would have had to have been notified by any supervisor. Even if the captain felt like calling them straight in the SHU and saying hey, Epstein needs a cellie. Like even if he wanted to jump the chain of command. Like they still need to know. ee : That’s what I’m saying. 92 EFTA00058613

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Ww fee} a : To tell us anything. point. If we we EFTA00058614

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Ww wo uld | ered pe information. should be alw information. Mm-hmm. Who was i -. And who’s that? EFTA00058615

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3 informed D io] 5 ee : And what time did FY EFTA00058616

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wo there’s no reli activities lieutenant -- lieutenant? EFTA00058617

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wo Who? EFTA00058618

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Ww wo notified what person? 4 anything, the next | then should h shift u Thomas should have like where it versus th 1) responsible? 7 when either of them like oO EFTA00058619

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Ww norm for him to take initiative and way more en though if ee : And Thomas isn’t normally working in the SHU. It would still be -? He’s wo hh Hh EFTA00058620

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rienced. 2 hundred percent. 3 we with the more 9 froma - remov had to go EFTA00058621

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Ww co Ww fee} information hi: come down the SHU have that h at to inform them. was sn the notif ot comi SHU? oming Would back? Is it normal practice to inform them? And who be -? Who is that ops li wou ld ha EFTA00058622

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wo wo o should have w an n notified the ae : And who in the SHU would he have notified at that point? on, I want the senior staff because they know more. like if I pick up the phone know it’s ymmebody with a get : %I want the person with the most time because they’re more experienced. So if I’m calling I’m saying clear instructions. Make sure Epstein has a cellie oO next hour or the next half hour or whatever. a : So who would have been the people in th SHU at that point you could ha spoken to? people. One, two, three, four. Four people pos was on day watch. EFTA00058623

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wo follow-up on a : No. But I mean is that would us who SHU and not coming back? No. No. R&D staff. don't and tell them that an 103 EFTA00058624

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wo co wo inmate left. and it’s a special case, that the phone inmate. just a regular It’s not Just the 10:00 count Now p.m. iJ has they did the count, there was ructions Epstein needed a they realized there’s not Mm-hmm. cellmate. Because -. notified? : Okay. lieutenant. But inmates anytime they want oO oO cal wu But if he required a should be ringing. comes to do the 10:00 and they know, cellmate. should Operations : You always 104 cellmate, then everyone knows But if it’s Somebody got bailed that big of a deal. call wasn’t made and none of that happened. around. Whoever 00 p.m. count. then tating hey listen, They did the count, cellmate. What should they have done? They should have got him a lieutenant. call operations SHU staff can move to. EFTA00058625

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wo Ne] WwW fee} wo just got to justify : Understood. Oh, what’s up? I you would be calling -. ie2) K K < was calling you. UNKNWON MALE: What’s going on? You called. I’m work done. Alright. So just - you’re next. I’m going to move COs have to co and conduct rounds? It’s just a question. they have to conduct rounds? a : To check on the wellbeing of the counts? Counts to make 0) bh fe] 3 nT] ct o it sur alive and well and breathing. 1] iad 0) I’m going to move on. cameras inside the M Absolutely. Have you ever utilized it for work? 10 uw EFTA00058626

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106 1 a : No. I always reviewed it B- ct > u 5 fe) rt w oO R an B 0 & ct i] 3 7 5 ct Did you know during that time WwW cameras were down and not 6 a : I wouldn’t. I didn’t’ know 8 a : You didn’t. Okay. If the were down, who is Was it wo Qa fw 3 @ K fw H = 0 to get it fixed or to make sure it was working? 11 es : Facilities Department. 2 ae : Facilities Department. Mm-hmm. 4 a : Now I’m going to go back. 5 You mentioned that in the attorn WwW conference 16 room, you saw Epstein in there. And you interacted with him a little bit. Mm-hmm. a : Or he asked for 20 How was his mood that day? 21 a : He doesn’t really talk much 22 the times that I’ve observed him in attorney fee) wo conference. He’s always in his work with his EFTA00058627

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1 upsets about Did he show any 2 emotional -? What are U inmates allowed to 3 one second. w ei fw rt fu h 0) 6 to have in their cell? Food. c t o 3 N I ct 0) 3 ifs) re) U 177) WwW tuna fish, 5 that. What about 9 of them hav medication 0 22 a : It’s on their person. a : Okay. Was tein authorized EFTA00058628

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N WwW wo WwW 8 wo No No No WwW 24 ee : You don't know. Okay. How of clothing or linens are inmates allowed to have in the SHU? when we did Monday, oO le Oo -? Are i) they allowed to have multiple spare clothing inside the SHU with them? are suppo oO Fal wu K O bh t oF Oo it) f p i 'o ie] @ 3 fe) Ss Q nH sibility of the too many clothing or linens are in cell? : Well if you have 100 inmates 108 EFTA00058629

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Ne] hakedown on cel interaction with : I wouldn’t know that. o ct 3 a] i) wu ct H 3 hu ine] f it) cr o get through. No-no. know. = 3 0 y why Epst was EFTA00058630

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1 a : Um, pornography, pedophile Ne] WwW : When you < to work 2 the next day. August 10th. What shift did you come back WwW 8 ae : Well I wouldn’t know because 9 shift 20 -. 21 HN: No but 22 a.m. Was the ambulance there? 24 a : I don't remem : ae : Okay Did to his EFTA00058631

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111 Ne] WwW counts when he was talki put that Rubik’s Cub wo Ne] WwW 5 10:00 p.m. and 12:00 a.m. were falsified. 6 would be KK ible for falsifying that? SHU? No. Whoever’s names were on wo Correct like four only be the other two EFTA00058632

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112 1 a : That is correct. Alric N - And that’s just 3 -. So it doesn’t have to be like a big hey 4 we’re not doing counts today. They wouldn’t 5 tell the other people we’re not doing them. 6 Would the other two people know that they 03) 7 didn’t conduct the count wo 7) n ue} 0) 0 'S bh i) Bb oa re) re Cc b I oe 1) 5 Oo oO o oO rt) Ww he . 3 5 1? ] rt hovering over you. 4 to do. You’re counting. 16 not on my back saying hey are you getting the counting, I’m doing 9 And 20 21 a : To count inmates? About 15 22 to 20 minutes if it’s a smooth count. Uh-huh. Nh WwW 24 EFTA00058633

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113 1 that’s the timeframe? 2 a : Yeah. 3 | tti‘ésSS Okay. And 4 a round? How long do 5 a : On a tier or altogether? 6 GS: si the SHU. So I’m talking specific to the SHU. Both instances. 8 a : Rounds, let me see, two-four- six-eight-ten-twelve. Maybe take a round take? wo 0 to 15 minutes to -. 2 same? 3 a : For a smooth round. Now if 4 you’re doing rounds an inmates are stopping 5 you. Then you know it longer. heard some instances where if people go down 8 the range to deal with something, they wo potentially count that as a round. Is that -? 20 a : So like -. That is correct. 21 So if you’re -. 22 is saying he needs a roll of tissue. And you 23 get the tissue and you go on the tier. And 24 you’re like oh. And his tier is all the way in 25 the corner. Me? I would have the roll of EFTA00058634

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114 I would look at ery inmate. Give sue. K Ne] you your t ep Killing two WwW in with them when you’ re t. And you don't good? You good? You 9 rounds - it’s the inmates like, we’re here. 0 1 You 9 5 something. something, s 7 a : You know if someone in there know. wo count, you d to che -? 21 The count is we’re standing up for count. Making we need live breathing bodies. EFTA00058635

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1 12:00 a.m., 3:00 a.m., and 5:00 a.m.? 2 up? 3 hey see flashlights. Yes. : So you actually have to stand up. It’s nota 8 standup count. wo ie) 0 a : Over night. So if they’re laying down and some have the covers over their 2 head, knock. They’1ll pull the sheets over. u see the WwW « is) i] B KK face. They move. You’re seeing 4 movement, you’re seeing live, breathing bodies. 16 actually have to knock. They do have to see fee} K 0) n wo ' ay. you show her 20 that email? Do you have the email? il that went from oO fu really should ha made that sent it out. It looks like EFTA00058636

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wo oO 116 was was on July 30th Now all the can kind of flip the page anc was on 1t. EFTA00058637

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117 4 : co o bh Oo ow ion Bp c ue] ct fe] rt 7 w rt | rh ai July 30th until How often were you an acting No Hi Q ie} is) Ph Hh M] oo 13) =] Ph fe) Kh oO i) kK rt 4 i) 4 ee : So I would have to look at my 6 Oh you’re have to look. 7 a : -- if I was on activitie its] a : Once or twice a month. EFTA00058638

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118 3 this was only July probably. EFTA00058639

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Ne] WwW WwW A As far as -. if Nope. Never mind. Those were my follow-ups. Let me just look at this. Now in any , would the captain be responsible? alw think it’s really should have the captain told -ain would be onsible? you as well then? communicate with his lieutenants. wy ut a : Oh absolutely. If I’m acting sibility to include me in what’ you didn’t start until I is] in ptain’s gon om o would it -? EFTA00058640

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120 1 Yeah, so if I’m starting at four, he’s gone. uld have been No WwW K o wo WN: ts there a SHU dant? 7 a : There is a SHU lieutenant but had. QO lieutenant? I don't remember who was th ' o ) 2 SHU lieutenant at the time. U lieutenant ot) me rh rt a oO Ki i) Like to 2:0 ana /3 is) o @ rh is) K @ ine] t MK aQ nl 3 @ Would - if it had been their 22 responsibility to also make sure that since EFTA00058641

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N N Nh Nh wo wo i) WwW uw 121 too? unaware that the range camera in the SHU was down? a : That is correct? ee: And whose responsibility would it -? Would the people working in the SHU known that it was down? es : So if you’re in the SHU, you don't know that the cameras are inoperable. Unless like it’s broken like you see a crack. But just if it looks like a camera, you don’t know if it’s inoperable. So if the Facilities to fix the cameras. Now if you’re in the control center, and you see a camera out, then you notify the (Indiscernible *01:29:09). HE: 8d if you're in facilities and you’re told that the camera is out, about how quickly should that camera be fixed? a : I’m not sure what the timeframes are. But you know, certain things, EFTA00058642

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wo wo N ho N a Nh 25 if a SHU camera takes priorit over a general population camera. I don’t’ know. But work orders have to be submitted. You know staff have to be around. So you know, it just really depends on what the job is. ecifically would be And do you know if responsible for doing it? a : Well Facilities is a big crew of individuals. So whoever they designate to fix the camera. a : It could be anybody. y- Anything else? see any maintenance happing with the cameras during that time? Any crews coming in there to fix the cameras? a : I mean it’s a prison. I mean everyone works - You know what I’m saying? : Okay. ee : But do I recall like Facilities being in SHU that day? I can’t tell you that. Yes or no because I real EFTA00058643

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wo wo 20 N ras N Nh N a Nh Nh uw don't remember. You know what I’m sayin suspicious with the death of Epstein yourself? you find anything Like the fact, you know, different counts, cameras down, things like tha Ee : No? So what is your opinion on the matter? a : I really don't have an opinion. I just feel like you know I come to work. I try to do my job the best way I can. You know. My goal is to come in, do what I need to do, go the extra mile, and just go home in one piece. Like I’m not -. I don’t focus on specific inmates and what their crime is. I treat everybody with respect. And I just want to go home. HR: «98nd Like do you think somebody dropped the ball here? Do you think that there’s somebody that’s responsible in this matter? From the limited information you 10W. Or d y 11 it’s -? know Or do you think it’ ae : Are you asking me my opinion? EFTA00058644

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124 1 ee : From but like an educat 2 we’ve talked about and 3 able And working duty that August 9th. Mm-hmm. Sure. I 6 honest opinion, I do think that some mistakes were made. 8 certain individuals’ part. WwW p-m., 12: ts weren’t condu 6 a : If they weren’t? 8 9 0 that 21 I get paid to count inmates. ee : So if I’m not just stay home. So that is like -. EFTA00058645

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1 a : Counts is, that’s the primary why we’r oo ray c 5 o a fw ar D D 2 t fw a be w i Ww about the pills and 22 know that he had that he tv p ¢ shouldn’t have Anything else EFTA00058646

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co Ww Monday June 14, 2021. This is EFTA00058647

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